>start with the Greeks
But where does one start with the Greeks?
>>9384465
https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/pub
now piss off
>>9384465
If this is true why I am 20 and never kissed a single girl?
>>9384465
Could it be that attraction has to do with looks and not personality? Maybe if I weren't ugly and skinny I'd have fucked a girl by now?
What does/lit/ think of John Barth's definition of:
Plot = "the incremental perturbation of an unstable homeostatic system and its catastrophic restoration to a complexified equilibrium."
>>9384456
some bigger words than might be used elsewhere, but otherwise that's a pretty textbook definition
>>9384456
Inaccurate and pretentious.
>>9384456
Haha what a tool.
ITT: Convince me to learn Greek and Latin.
I really can't think of any reason why anyone would want to learn a dead language. First, it's a waste of time. Learning mathematics or a language that is still alive is a much better use of that time. Second, literally all Latin and Greek works have been translated into English, which would do just fine, unless you're autistic. Third, since no one speaks them anymore, no pleb or woman would be impressed by your ability to speak in Latin and Greek.
I am aware that some Latin and Greek are used in the sciences and mathematics, but really, knowing Latin or Greek won't reinforce your understanding of those subjects. You can learn that rho is the symbol used for density, but other than that, no one would care if rho is a Greek letter or whatever. Likewise with scientific classifications of animals and other stuff.
Nigga, if you're seeking some sort of practical utility, learning any language, dead or alive, is useless if you know english. You learn languages because it's fun, plus if manage to become fluent you get to gloat over the fact that you learned a skill only a few thousand people in the world have.
As far as Greek/latin go, I can only speak for the latter. Latin is enjoyable, complex and very different from english, yet at the same time you can achieve reading fluency within a year because of the huge overlap in vocabulary. If you're interested in history and culture of Rome, or scholastic theology of the middle-ages, I say it's well worth it.
>Convince me to learn Greek and Latin
Why would I do that? What makes you so important that I would devote my time trying to get you, a complete stranger, to do something that has no bearing on my life whatsoever? I don't care if you improve yourself, you can go ahead and wallow in ignorance if you want. Didn't even say please.
>literally all Latin and Greek works have been translated into English, which would do just fine, unless you're autistic.
You're already lost if you can't see why this is an inane thing to say.
Has anyone really grappled with Negative capability? I tend to feel a writer should abstain from being too opinionated and strive for experience as it is, instead of how they think it is. Besides Shakespeare, any other writers you feel captures the spirit of this notion? Any tips on how to develop a Negative capability in your own writing?
>>9384422
>Negative capability
I'm a bit skeptical of this concept. Attempts to avoid ideology generally run into an acceptance of the status quo as a natural state.
>>9384558
Is that how you see it? I always read Negative capability as the ability to accept people as they are without the urge or anxiety to challenge the opinions you disagree with. Which is why I think Keats thought it essential for a writer.
>>9384629
I don't write fiction, I'm a journalist, and it reminds me of "journalistic objectivity", where you don't insert your own views on a certain topic. So instead, you seek out the opposite view, if you feel it is necessary.
That feeling of necessity is the tricky part. Lets say I'm writing about a KKK protest downtown. Of course I'm going to contact someone like the ACLU or Southern Poverty Law Center to get their rebuttal of the KKK's message.
But that doesn't always happen. A collegue wrote about Richard Dawkin's recent vist to our town, he got a banal quote from the local catholic diocese, and also from the event organizer/host (the Unitarian church), but he left it at that. I feel the bigger controversy surrounding Dawkins isn't the Religion vs Science debate, but rather Dawkins increasingly divisive rhetoric around Feminism and the Humanities.
The choice to include or not include certain view points is an ideological choice. In fiction, such as shakespeare, I suspect this would equate to what kinds of characters you include as foils to other characters. By not including an ideological enemy to contrast a certain view, you can let that position fly as natural or objective.
The man I'm infatuated with is your standard chronically depressed "nihilist".
He's Raskolnikov pre-murder. How do I get him post-murder, without actually - you know - having him commit murder?
Why would you not let such a beautiful story play out.
You have to let him go, you owe it to him and yourself.
you can't change someone. either accept that's how it is and deal with the consequences it has on your relationship or move on and find someone who doesn't make you want to change them.
>>9384353
It isn't beautiful, he's miserable.
Help me make a reading list /lit/
I want to hit the majors, what are some books I cant miss?
Waverley
Pride & Prejudice
Great Expectations
Ulysses
You Can't Go Home Again
The Legacy of Totalitarianism in a Tundra
>>9384286
The Odyssey
The Iliad
Metamorphoses
The Aenid
The Divine Comedy
Paradise Lost
Dead Souls
War & Peace
Crime and Punishment
In Search of Lost Time
Don Quixote
Moby Dick
I enjoyed Slaughterhouse 5, 1984, and Brave New World, anything like that?
Serious question: is being verbose the only way to make your prose more aesthetic?
>>9384137
Only if you're doing it deliberately and meaningfully. Verbosity for its own sake has no value, it should be instead seen as a tool you've got to elevate and make even more specific, emblematic and palpant concepts and dynamics in your texts.
But I'm pretty sure you already knew that.
word on the street is there are several disjoint aesthetics
what are some actually useful writing tips that haven't been said a million types before?
>>9384102
>inb4 "proofread"
>>9384102
there honestly aren't any useful tips that haven't been said millions of times before. writing isn't difficult. bad writers just make it so. now, if you want to be a successful Stephen King type writer, then i'd say read his On Writing book. everything you need to know about writing easy to digest stories is there.
okay, i'll leave with one tip. do what works for you. if you'rea night owl, well, write at night. if you're a morning person, set apart a few hours every morning to write. see? easy as pie.
Just do whatever. Don't worry about if you are writing the wrong way or shit, because if you try to force yourself into somebody else's rules for writing your writing is going to suffer.
Where are you faggos reading today?
Pic related. Its me and my beach
>>9384028
>virgin detected
>>9384028
>breakers
shit's so crash
>>9384078
not that guy but reading a book on a beach is easily more fulfilling than sex
Do you plan/map your novel before writing? Is it advisable?
Or should the plan find itself in the first draft?
>>9384027
No dude just wing it
The only good book I ever finished was unplanned, and fixed during the revisions. The book suggested itself after the rough draft, and I modeled it after writing the rough draft without a plan.
Is our universe mathematics?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothesis
>>9383945
Math is just an abstract language.
Sounds like an unfalsifiable hypothesis, desu.
>>9383945
Mathematics lets us glimpse at the true forms of the universe.
Hi /lit, anyone can recommend me some especially Machiavellian novels or literature? Fiction or nonfiction is fine, I'm primarily looking for stories where the protagonist overcomes a more powerful foe through cunning and subversion rather than just brute strength or the power of '''''love''''' etc. Much appreciated!
>>9383855
Homer's The Odyssey
>>9383857
I've actually already read a fair portion of this, but good suggestion. Thank you!
>>9383855
Druon's Accursed Kings series is probably just what you're looking for.
Hey /lit/
Is there anything similar to 'The Story of Art" for literary movements? I'd like a book that shows a comprehensive world history for literary movements, at least the western and modern ones.
>>9383827
I like Michael Schmidt's Lives of the Poets, which is an overview of important English language poets. He also has a book covering the history of the novel.
>>9383827
Harold Bloom's Western Canon is supposed to be pretty insightful
>>9383827
This one for philosophy
I am quite confident to say at least, that what we will be seeing is a language change from contemporary English towards memetic English. Memes, in all the sense, are the proverb of the future, the crème de la crème of the new times ahead. I notice you thinking: is this to be celebrated? Yes, I say. With utmost confidence I say they are. Memes as you might be aware of are contagious, and so they go viral and stick around until they fade away.
Some people are notorious at spreading memes, I call these people meme sexuals. Meme sexuals compete with each other in the meme marketplace. They want to spread their memes. Some people want to prevent their competitors from doing the same. This creates a tension between the meme sexual. Some people evolve resistance towards some memes. We can learn a lot from Freud about memes: it is all about lust that makes people engage in memes. Ok, I notice you thinking again: what does this have to do with /lit/?
Well what I mean by this is that if you want to survive the upcoming century as a writer you have to put memes into your writing. Personally I am still wondering how to best do this. Consider the following: the English we are currently using is like the Vulgar Latin that is about to be changed into the Romance languages like Italian. I am not saying that we’ll see several new languages of English (though this is an interesting thesis worth mind wandering about), what I am saying is that the current English will not appeal to the maturing populations of today. It will seem foreign and alien to them.
So my advice to /lit/, as a bit of an outsider I will confess, is to study memes and memetics so your writing will remain relevant. Hope this helps.
>>9383819
>>9383819
>creme de la creme
oh, i see, cliches. thanks, op!
>>9383819
We need a progressive English, free of hate.
Am i the only one who is reading/ have read this book ?
>What is your opinion on it ?
>>9383661
>it's a rationalist tries to make a claim about what he experiences through the five sense episode
>>9383682
Have you read the book?
Nobody ?