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Free will and Determinism. Frankfurts & Dennets counter argument to incompatibilism 2016-10-06 23:34:28 Post No.8591165
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Free will and Determinism. Frankfurts & Dennets counter argument to incompatibilism 2016-10-06 23:34:28 Post No.8591165
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Free will and Determinism. Frankfurts & Dennets counter argument to incompatibilism
Anonymous
2016-10-06 23:34:28
Post No. 8591165
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Defense of free will: (on ultimate responsibility) from Kaine
Basically, how we intuitively define free will in formal terms. If a person is responsible for an act which causes an event (murdering a man) or its precursor within reason (hiring an assassin). Then they are Ultimately morally responsible.
Frankfurt's Argument:
>The principle of alternate possibilities forms part of an influential argument for the incompatibility of responsibility and causal determinism, as detailed below:
>PAP: An agent is responsible for an action only if said agent is free.
>An agent is free only if causal determinism is false.
>Therefore, an agent is responsible for an action only if causal determinism is false.
Frankfurts Objection (in defense of compatibilism):
A person is not morally responsible for what they have done if they could not have done otherwise. Our theoretical ability to do otherwise, he says, does not necessarily make it possible for us to do otherwise.
Meaning simply, the fact that a person could theoretically do otherwise is sufficient to make it so that determinism is compatible with free will.
This implies IS and Ought are completely disjointed however and begs the question of the purpose of ought at all.
I have been reading on libertarian philosophy from dennett, frankfurt and kaine and none of it tickles the right spots.
It seems to me with human morality there is a fundamental divide in how we frame morality that changes its natures. If we know from Hume that we put "faith" in causality. Though said faith is held with reason. Then it seems strange to base arguments against (or for) free will on simple causality. As though that is not riddled with metaphysical presuppositions.
Kaine is correct in using reason then, even if said reason references causality but this is more of an epistemological dilemma (an extension of the explanitory gap).
Also, it seems to forget the question of good and evil. The purpose of free will is always related to good and evil. This bothers me quite a bit for some reason. Compatibilism makes perfect sense when you only consider non-moral and self benefiting economic choices.
But morality itself acts as a different economy because it is reductive and always involves restraining impulses for some distinct purpose. It is rooted in purpose which is NOT a feature of the physical world.
While one can be harmless for 60 years, choose to do one big evil and its all gone. Choose to defy an evil norm and be heralded by a hero. if not publicly then by those that understand the pressures.
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This whole free will versus determinism is just so fucking annoying with people having nothing to say on the topic anymore.
Ayn Rand and Nietzsche already solved this shit. All you have is your volition that gives you a sense that you are above causation but is still within causality. Ayn Rand just says to use your rationality while Nietzsche just says that you can't prove that your will is actually ''free'' so just do whatever.
If a person is unable to exert their volition we consider them insane and incapable to acting rationally. A person who accepts that all their actions are deterministic is simply acting nihilistic and accepts the idiotic notion that he has no volition. This is why people consider suicide as the only choice a person can make, a decision of actual rebellion against self preservation.
This whole fucking debate shit is just so fucking boring.
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>>8591165
>If a person is responsible for an act
This definition just offloads the ambiguity onto another term.
What the fuck is responsibility? What difference does it make?
It means nothing, and every time somebody uses a term in this vein, they are using meaningless words to disguise the fact that their statement has no justification.
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>>8591208
Responsibility is a spook.
When will people ever fucking learn?
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What are the most /lit/ courses to take in college? dropping one of my majors and would like to fill up some time.
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>>8591118
have you considered taking a lit class
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>>8591121
lit class
shit ass
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>>8591118
creative writing :^)
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Just when i thought good reads couldn't get any worse
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1186891033?book_show_action=true&from_review_page=1
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>goes to pleb hut central cafe palace 2000
>dismayed to find it's all plebs
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>goes to plebopolis's pleb district and visits the plebbery
>it's plebs
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>attends the annual pleb 'state of the plebs' address at pleb stadium in plebsville
>there's a pleb here
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>now that's a nice word
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Yeah, that was a pretty fuckin' awkward moment in that interview. God, I mean, the guy, what is he, German? He doesn't realizing that 'pontificating' is a horribly negative word and that he's insulting the great man by using it. He makes Dave feel so bad about himself and self-conscious that it's remarkable that we have it on tape because the guy's remark probably, in a distant way, contributed to the decision of the author to take his own life.
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Fuck that cameraman.
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source?
Recommend me some books that are somewhere in between a fiction novel and philosopy.
Somehing like thus spoke zarathustra but contemporary.
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Definitely not contemporary, but Blanchot's Thomas the Obscure could be what you're looking for.
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>>8591058
The unbearable lightness of being
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sittgensteins mistress
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why dont you have a lit channel reviewing books?
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dont read em.
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>>8591020
read a paragraph and extrapolate it voice-like
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why don't i carve stone tablets with cuneiform with patches for World of Warcraft?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XtGTR92bZQ
what do you think of her? is she a qt?
is it pleb to rerad mommsen in anything else than german?
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It's not a fucking textbook, whore! Don't call it a textbook. Do some fucking research on who Mommsen was and what he was writing.
Holy shit I'm so mad. "Theodore" Mommsen. HE'S FUCKING GERMAN.
"It's a textbook, but every once in a while THEODORE Mommsen's passion leaks through." Leaks through, you fucking whore? It's a fucking titanic Lebenswerk by one of the two or three greatest German classicists of the 19th century. He's one of the greatest scions of the Rankean tradition. Cut your bangs you whore.
"Mommsen really seems to want to get across that the Romans were important and stuff." Really?? You think maybe Theodor Mommsen had some strong feelings about those Romans?
"This book gets 3 out of 5 stars. It does its job! Haha."
Her metric of quality in non-fiction seems to have two criteria: "Facts," and "Does the Author Instill Passion?" How about the critical acumen and analytical power, the synthetic interweaving of the ENTIRE documentary tradition to which Mommsen then devoted his life in even more thankless toil, the perfect paragon of a Fussnotehistoriker? 3 out of 5, huh? He could have impressed you some more? Maybe you want Theodor Mommsen to give you a back massage while you piss on his life's work? Fuck you.
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>>8591025
Do you want to rape her Anon?
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>>8591025
dude, calm down. she might be a pleb, but atleast she read his boring stuff.
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to ever live?
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of the moderns, yes.
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>>8590917
without a doubt. his philosophy has influenced everyone from Godel to Kripke (aka: philosophers who matter). A living legend and makes me wish I lived in a better possible world
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Am I king of plebs for thinking reading translations doesn't make much sense? For works in which the prose or whatever is the main feature you surely lose too much in translation for it to ever be anything more than a poor imitation of the original.
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Like I'm going to learn Russian or Gook just to read a few books?
"Prose" is overrated anyways and it's the translators job.
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Translations can be rendered in good English prose. Even the Russians, who get notoriously awkward translations, were well translated by Constance Garnett, who could write a good English sentence. I read plenty of books in translation with pleasing prose. Lydia Davis's French translations are another example.
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>>8590870
>For works in which the prose or whatever is the main feature
what are you doing with your life
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why doesn't she get more love from /lit/
is it because she's catholic and not DUDE POMO LMAO
there's like 10 threads for infinite jest at any given time but not a single flannery thread?
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>>8590868
Lit loves flan flan. One of the only female authors we almost unanimously like.
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i hate women but i can't help but love flannery
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>>8590877
she needs more love though
i want to see her getting so much love i have to stop liking her to be contrarian and have good taste
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>tfw there hasn't been one single good book released this year
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>>8590848
You've read hundreds of thousands of books this year?
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>>8590855
Only the good ones
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>>8590848
while a distinct possibility, i would argue that it is a little too soon to know.
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Is Charles Kinbote the most insufferable cunt in literature? I hate the "the narrator sucks so I won't read the book" meme, but this is almost too much.
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>>8590805
I understood the poem on my first read so I didn't have to read kinbotes notes.
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>he bought the kinbote commentary
just read it without notes or read the watkins, he's way better if formalism is your thing
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>Peck is so hard on his elders that you suspect him of symbolic patricide, except that he is just as hard on his peers. Famously, of course, Rick Moody: ''the worst writer of his generation.'' But Colson Whitehead gets it for his ''stiff, schematic'' first novel, ''The Intuitionist,'' and a second, ''John Henry Days,'' with ''the doughy center of a half-baked cake.'' David Foster Wallace's ''Infinite Jest'' so much fails to amuse him that he wishes on Wallace an anal assault. Richard Powers, Dave Eggers and the Jonathans, Franzen and Lethem, are rudely dismissed for lack of ''a true empathetic undercurrent'' and what he elsewhere disdains as ''pomo shenanigans.'' Nor is he impressed by the Dirty Realists (trailer homes), the Brat Packers (nightclubs) or the New Narrativists (sexual transgression).
>But the wise old heads are also on his chopping block. So Nabokov, between ''Lolita'' and ''Pale Fire,'' sold out to ''sterile inventions.'' At the bottom of its bowl of ''watery oatmeal,'' the subtext of ''American Pastoral'' is Philip Roth's misogyny. Thomas Pynchon in ''a 30-year writing career hasn't produced a single memorable or even recognizably human character.'' Julian Barnes ''crawls under your skin and itches like scabies.'' Stanley Crouch's ''Don't the Moon Look Lonesome'' is such ''a terrible novel, badly conceived, badly executed and put forward in bad faith,'' that it's amazing the guy shows up on Charlie Rose. The ''ridiculous dithering'' of John Barth, John Hawkes and William Gaddis isn't even worth discussing, but they belong to ''a bankrupt tradition'' going back to James Joyce and ''the diarrheic flow of words that is 'Ulysses,' '' which tradition has now broken down ''like a cracked sidewalk beneath the weight of the stupid -- just plain stupid -- tomes of Don DeLillo.''
Could he be "our guy"?
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Seems too serious to care about
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It's easy to trash books, I trash books here every day, some of them I've never even read. I was famous here for my trashings of a certain author. I've never read him.
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>le epic criticize everything maymay
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rec some grotesque/unsettling shit to read
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my diary desu
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>>8590757
Manga, but try Shintarou Kago.
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>>8590757
naked lunch
or an Arby's lunch menu
same effect
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this book fucked me up bad. what should i read to recover
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>>8590713
What's the diagnosis? A very good read, I thought. Makes psychoanalysis seem (somewhat) legit. Well written, also.
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>>8590750
it is. but it is also depressing as fuck
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>>8590713
How did that fucked you up? Anguishing?