Yuri Game Thread

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Recent News:
Yuri Game Jam 2016 is wrapping up, games are starting to appear. https://itch.io/jam/yuri-game-jam-2016 Buzz about Once Upon a Windswept Night is positive so far.
Steam Halloween Sale ends today, titles with (sometimes very tiny) amounts of /u/ content on sale listed at: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/hellayuri/discussions/0/305510202678029729/
Buzz about Nights of Azure 2 intensifies

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>>2178631
Onee-sama is love.
Onee-sama is life.

I'm fairly new to this VN thing and I've been wondering: do you guys use walkthroughs playing one VN since the first time?

>>2178727
I mostly do, but there are exceptions such as Flowers, because for that I do the deduction parts in that myself and for most other choices the lily gauge tells the player whether you got it "right" immediately, but I still look at a walkthrough when going for the other endings.

>>2178727
Depends on the game, but if it's complicated then yes, I'll probably go for a walkthrough after my first route just to speed up getting the other endings, unless the mechanics/process of exploring endings is fun in itself.

There are some VNs where it's interesting figuring out what leads to what, but in other cases the bad ends are just unsatisfying so I'd rather hurry up and get to the good bits after I've satisfied my initial 'honest' playthrough.

>>2178727
Most of the time there is no real need to since the choices are practically labeled. There are some VNs which really need a walkthrough to make any sense and some which are actually really interesting to explore, but they are few and far between.

>>2178727
Usually try to do it on my own the first time. But fuck playing Aoi Shiro without a guide.

>>2178727
if it's a short game i'll try without one, if it's some ridiculously long VN i immediately go for a walkthrough. I'd rather not spend forever on dead ends.

how come /u/ never talks about winterwolves stuff?

>>2178756
The art is so-so and the writing went down the drain. Loren is good and Season of the Wolf is okay when it comes to Chalassa. Everything else is kinda meh.

People who played that latest pirate game or whatever reported on how the obnoxious the characters are.

I'm interested in Loren 2 but it's stuck in development hell.

>>2178756
I would guess it's because most of their stuff is closer to BioWare RPGs, with choice of protagonist and romance options, and we don't talk much about these either. Maybe there'll be more interest once they finally release one of the multiple yuri dating sim they have in development.

>>2178756
We've talked about them when something has come out. The general opinion is that their stuff tends to be between kinda bad and meh for the most part.

>>2178632
>jam
Cool, I'll have to look at the results once I actually get some time.

>>2178663
This game keeps getting better.

>>2178756
>why doesn't an entire board talk about this one very specific game/developer???
holy shit im so sick of these posts
you want to see a discussion, then fucking start one yourself

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>>2178631
You forgot to add VDB to the pastebin, OP.

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>>2178803
It's really shaping up to be great.

>>2178870
Apparently Camilla is the one who resurrected Arshe as a half demon. Which would probably explain the apparently power gap between them. It would be amusing if even Liliana is a top.

>>2178727
I really prefer not to, only thing I have used a walkthrough before I was 'done' with it is Embric since it is insanely convoluted. I always try to go in completely blind, sometimes not even checking tags on vndb and downloading and reading stuff entirely on just a whim.

I really like when everything is new, and you have no idea where every choice will lead or how things can/will end. For me at least, in the first playthrough of a game it seems like you usually do what you want to do any time you reach a crossroads instead of what you think will land you on the route you want, and I really like that, I find that journey of exploration really enjoyable. In some cases I feel attached to my first route and its ending, like I got the bad end in Katawa Shoujo at first, where you get drunk and fall off a roof, and I kind of felt like that was how my experience should stay "ended". It was my personal true route.

This can backfire pretty easily though. Like if you went into Kindred Spirits and didn't know there wasn't a route for Ano, you might be very disappointed since it seemed like there was. Worst thing for me is probably that after seeing the gay in the opening for Subarashiki Hibi I went in blindly hoping for yuri, even if I think in the end that it was worth reading in some fucked up way.

>>2178756
Because their latest game was awful, I really liked Loren, but that Queen of Thieves with 3 sisters leads where the romance is just badly written and overal plot is stupid I'm a bit sad I bought it.

>>2178867
he's been doing f/f routes since 2011 or something, so it's not like he's a nobody.

as far as starting a discussion i haven't played anything since loren. his stuff is a bit too pricey for me to just try out on a whim.

>>2178886
he's not a nobody, and we do talk about him, he just doesn't get dedicated threads

>>2178727
There aren't many yuri VNs with enough branching plots or complex enough to warrant a walkthrough.

Except Aoi Shiro. You can make a completely innocuous desicion that will kill you. And it's not always immediately apparent.

Hell, if you didn't know how hardcore Aoi Shiro is. It comes with its own fucking built-in flowchart

>>2178944
Akai Ito, Sapphism no Gensou, ShiroKoi and Seisai no Resonance, among others, are complicated enough that a walkthrough is of use in saving time.

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WHO WILL WIN THE ARSHEBOWL?

>>2178982
Liliana, others are too high test

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Is this game any good?
https://vndb.org/v6924

>>2178991
This, I'm aesthetically shipping drills x demon

>>2178982
What do you think the MC's personality is like? Currently I guess earnest, serious, oblivious. Just your typical hardworking harem protag.

>>2178982
Depends. I need to know if Camilla has a line that's something like "ara ara, you're interested in an old lady like me? but I'm so plain and boring" or not.

>>2178999
Yes. Shame it's never properly patched.

>>2179007
Arshe seems like an autismo so far.

>>2178982

Hmm, I will wait until more girls are announced

>>2178663
If she doesn't get a proper yuri ending, this game gets dropped into a volcano.
Thankfully Japan gets it first, so we'll know.

>>2179010
>old lady

What

>>2179034
Lurk more.

>>2179035
Cry more.

>>2178982
if you squint, it looks like super sentai

>>2179041
>tfw no yuri super sentai game

>>2178982
Stop turning this into borderline waifufaggotry.

>>2179034
A theory exists that she's a vampire, and therefore she's like a lesbillion years old.

>>2179045
All you really need for that is a mahou shoujo vidya where everyone works in a team. Though I can't think of like that either. The Madoka PSP game, maybe.

Symphogear would be ideal probably. Maybe the phone game.

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Just beat Life is Strange.

Was okay.

Game trying to guilttrip me for letting a storm destroy a town was kind of cute, as if I wouldn't have massacred everyone personally if it guaranteed the two heroines walking off into the sunset alive together.

>>2179055
Same here. Only the lesbians are pure enough to survive.

>>2179055
that would be an interesting idea... you get to know a bunch of actually nice characters the entire game and then get told the lesbian ending is only obtainable to personally kill them all.

>>2179046
Not that anon, but shipping war is not waifufaggotry. Stop being a retard who give credits of everything to /a/utists and ruin everyone's fun.

>>2179064
That would require a western dev to actually be capable of writing likeable characters, which has yet to be done.

>>2179064
But how emotionally challenging would that be for yurifags? I thought most of us would be willing to kill everything just so the purest form of love can prevail.

Now, a harem game where you have to kill nice ladies who are in love with you just so you can hook up with the remaining one...

>>2179068
SaintBomber.

>>2179064
I mean that is basically the ending >>2179055 chose, short of the personally doing it part.

It's always interesting seeing people's reasoning behind why they chose which ending in that. Personally I sat there a minute thinking about it, decided saving the town was the right choice both morally and logically, and then decided I was a terrible enough person to choose Chloe over them anyway and did so.

Not really sure what kind of person that makes me. Sometimes I wonder how much harder they would have had to tip the scales to get me to change my mind.

>you can either prevent world war 3, or have your OTP kiss each other once on screen in a sequel within 12 months
>give me four seconds to think about that
>I pick yuri, fuck everyone

You don't really have to do anything but complete every heroine's ending in order to unlock the harem ending, but you do have to pick the correct choices leading up to unlocking it, so I suppose a player is earning it in that way. I do have the choice flags planned out in a way that make it very obvious which one is the correct choice, so that the person picking it knows well in advance what ending they're going to get.
I made a point of making all of the bad endings "bad" for Alpha herself, so depending on what a player is into, that ending may end up being more enjoyable for them than the "good" one.

>>2179081
>short of the personally doing it part.
that's what I meant though, you have to go total dark brotherhood to get the girl.

>>2179081
>morally
Always remember, "moral" is relative. If I'm an outsider then sure, it's 'moral" for me to save the highest number of lives, even at the cost of some lives. But if someone innocent and important to me is at risk, then the whole world can go fuck itself. Because my morals would tell me that I need to protect my family and loved ones, not letting them becoming a sacrifice against their will. I also don't have any moral obligation to become a sacrifice for anybody else. I.e. it's not immoral for me to not volunteer fighting a foreign war that has nothing to do with my country, just to save some lives. Would you agree to be executed if you know it can save a bunch of random strangers all over the world?

I'll only let my loved ones or myself become a sacrifice if it's the only choice against world apocalypse. Because otherwise, they will die anyway.

All that is to say, there's nothing immoral about choosing yourself over the world, provided you aren't the cause of disaster in the first place. No innocent lives are indebt to other lives.

>>2179095
That would be kind of hard to make sense, but you could probably do it somehow. Closest thing I can think of would be if you played a yandere, like Yandere Simulator with a female senpai but with murder not being the obvious answer. I think the creator intends to implement a female senpai eventually but it could interfere with some other systems they have made I think and require additional resources so I don't know if it will actually happen.

Anything that does it would have to give the player the choice to either be completely nice but not get the girl or go apeshit insane to get it, in order to show the player how far they are willing to go for it, which seems to be the core of the idea.

First thing I can think of is a love triangle where you and probably a dude pursue a girl, and the yuri end is murdering him and being the girl's emotional crutch afterwards. Him winning is a bad end obviously. But that is just one person, if you want more blood than that then I am not sure where to add more victims into the dynamic unless you start adding parents and neighbors or something. I think Tsui Yuri did some fucked up shit like that for the yandere routes?

End result would be really fucking dark but I would play it.

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>>2179098
>But if someone innocent and important to me is at risk, then the whole world can go fuck itself. Because my morals would tell me that I need to protect my family and loved ones, not letting them becoming a sacrifice against their will.

That's kind of the thing though. You described a lot of the people the main character knows throughout the story, and all but one of them is on the other side of the scale. You can save Kate and put her on the path to recovery, redeem Victoria, catch up with Chloe's mother, decide that David's heart is in the right place even if he is brutish about it, and consider Warren a good friend even if you have no romantic interest in him, and then when Chloe tells you to let her go to save them and many many others you can just refuse and watch everything but the two of you be demolished.

If you ever play the game again, think about that every single time you meet a character. You (and I, for that matter) would choose to sacrifice them against their will to save someone who was seemingly fated to die already. It's like if you killed everyone in your neighborhood to cure your friend's cancer. I can certainly understand why someone would do it, and perhaps I even would, but I don't think that puts it above reproach.

>>2179098
You aren't sacrificing a loved one against their will though? Chloe actually wants Max to sacrifice her. Partly also to save her own loved ones (her mother).

>>2179099
>be completely nice but not get the girl or go apeshit insane to get it, in order to show the player how far they are willing to go for it

Okay, I'm sold. As long as the love interest is into us too. Otherwise I feel like I can't root for myself. Being a simple yandere killing everyone to manipulate the love interest is too simplistic. I prefer something a little along the line of Saya no Uta, where the MC is BOTH forced and willing to do despicable things to be with his/her love.

In order to do that, we need a premise that is beyond girl X is in love with girl Y. Something big that would justify the amount of homicides. Because personally I found Tsui Yuri tragedies laughable, too edgy for its slice of life setting.

>>2179099
>That would be kind of hard to make sense
eh that's game design, though. like life is strange has a really dumb ending, but it's what they decided on

>>2179106

Tsui Yuri actually worked fine. The triggers for the whole "getting psycho" is an unhealthy amount of affection towards the other girl combined with the setting of "yuri", aka forbidden love, its society views and the whole incest thing on top of it. It's just a downward spiral.
On the flipside if both have a more "normal" view of the other one, with relatively equal affection nothing weird happens.

Sure not everyone would act like that. But psychos aren't for self-inserting and understanding. The insane are insane. You gotta understand that concept. People are different and have different values. And seeing HOW CLOSE the two protagonists of Tsui Yuri were, for all of their life, I don't think there's a lot to complain here. It was unnatural all the time. Unhealthy some would say. And at some point the mother finally said something, as they just wouldn't "grow out of it". You don't need a tragic past or whatever to justify this. Justifying getting all psycho is a bit of a.. stretch anyway.

>>2179137
Sure, everyone has different values and there are crazies who would kill people over a candy. But that cop-out excuse won't make a story interesting. The value of a plot and writing quality lie in how beliveable it is within its own setting.

Take Saya no Uta again for example. Despite its mild sci-fi setting, the MC's feelings and decisions are completely relatable: he decided to become a cannibal and fall in love with an abomination, because those are the only bearable option if he wants to continue living. Normal people who read this story understand that they themselves would most likely do the same thing, not "oh I guess psychopaths like MC exist."

Tsui Yuri feels lame because it reads like someone is trying too hard to make these school girls edgy, without much substance. I can't stop laughing while playing it. This has a lot to do with poor writing rather than an inherent fault in the setting.

Look at Higurashi for an excellent example of horror writing. Just examine one single timeline where everyone is a normal human. It's incredibly creepy. The atmospheric writing show us how the MC slowly descent into madness in a very relatable way. I'm sure if I were him, I would have reacted the same way.

Tl;dr: "some people act that way" is an irrelevant excuse.

>>2179081
It was an easy decision for me, because I never bought Warren's 'explanation' about the disaster and its cause.
Max gets her first premonition of the storm before she ever uses her powers; and her being upset by that vision is what led to her going into the bathroom after class and seeing the shooting. So what's the point of warning her not to do something she doesn't even know she can do, and then giving her the ability to do it?
The whole 'you can't change the past, accept it and move on' moral only works when the protagonist was actively seeking out a way to change the past, not when the ability just falls in their lap out of nowhere.

>>2179104
>save someone who was seemingly fated to die already
That's actually an important point in favor of saving them. If you can save someone fated to die it means you can break the rules, and if you can break the rules then everything becomes possible. Abide by fate and you can't win, refuse to play by its rules and you create a scenario where you can win.

Or at least you could if the developers didn't think best lesbians are tragic lesbians.

>>2178982
The first two will win in a threesome and at least one other is the surprise villain Carmilla and another is a tragic lesbian harpy

>>2179007
Serious with a goal with some self-doubt, so much that she doesn't notice the affections of the girls that surround her

>>2178663
>>2179010
>implying these two are the oneesama ara ara lilies

>>2178982
They will couple with each other and MC will be forever alone.

>>2179015
>autist
How so?

>>2179194
That sounds like a fun premise for a hetbait harem anime. Male MC is delusional and goggled all the girls' platonic niceness to him as romantic interest, only to find out every last one of them is in live with another girl. Some are already happily in a relationship, some are secret crushing and the MC still grit his teeth to help her get together with the crush (because he's actually a nice guy).

>>2179194
>Only on /u/

When I first heard about the final choice of "Life is Strange" out of context, I thought "Of course you save the town over one person."But in context, I felt like the game did a good job of making that the wrong decision, intentionally or not. The run-up tp the choice to me was basically everything screaming at Max "Stop fucking with time! You just make everything worse!" So it was less a selfish decision to save your girlfriend over everyone else and more a case of you made your bed, now lay in it.

I'd save town over some annoying cunt anytime.

Kate best girl

>>2179252
I think it's more a question of do you want to kill an annoying cunt or an entire town of annoying cunts. Like pretty much every "kill/save" a character in western games it's usually which do you hate and want to see suffer more than which do you like and want to save more.

>>2179221
Because she can identify with Arshe

>>2179256
At least there's few likeable people in the town.

>>2179258
As a german, I don't think I can ever get used to that name....

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>>2179258
Slowpoke here, I just read the character description of NoA2 and can see why that someone thinks Alushe sound autistic:

>She has a straightforward personality and is the type to prefer actions over words.
Either an autist, or Signum type.

>Liliana is chosen as a BRIDE of Time to be sacrificed for the QUEEN of the Moon.
What is this blatant lesbianism? I laughed at that harder than the "lily" system.

>Ruhenheid: appears to be passionate and somewhat arrogant, with her own sense of justice, she is obedient at her core.
This combines with her drills makes me afraid that she will be an annoying elitist rich ass. But judging from this screenshot, she doesn't seem to speak in a pretentious ojousama way. Just straightforward like a knight should be. Gust, please make her likable.

>>2179085
>depending on what a player is into, that [bad] ending may end up being more enjoyable for them than the "good" one.
Sex slave pls. Complete with BDSM dungeon.

>>2179261
As an Irish person I read it as a drunk priest cursing

>>2179253
>not Alice
Pls.

>>2179249
>Stop fucking with time! You just make everything worse!
Problem with that is, her going back in time to let Chloe die doesn't actually make things worse. So the universe is upset that Max reversed time to save Chloe from shooting herself, but it isn't upset that Max reversed time to undo all of her time reversals.
The universe in that game is as consistent as a drunk pregnant teenager.

Honestly, prior to episode 5 I secretly hoped they'd implemented a hidden point system that counted how many times you used magic voodoo bullshit, so in the end it would affect the overall fucked-upness of things. Sort of like low chaos/high chaos in Dishonored.

>>2179314
Of course her going back to fix things wouldn't annoy the universe, since that's how things were supposed to go in the first place. The universe was angry that Max tried to change fate, not that she went back in time. It's like death going after the people in Final Destination, their time was up.

>>2179318
If the universe is angry that Max tried to change fate, why did the universe give her the means to change fate in the first place?

>>2179334
Time Travel division fuck up, now the Time Army has to destroy that timelime before they discover how to slide.

>>2179334
Or if the universe was angry at Max for changing fate, why not simply change it back? Why throw a temper tantrum in the form of a storm instead?

>>2179334
Just because Max could change fate doesn't mean she had to.

>>2179343
What's to stop Max from trying again if the universe just put everything back? And even the universe has it's limits, at least in fiction.

I think they were just ripping off Final Destination to make the universe seem like a conscious force of nature.

>>2179348
The problem with this line of reasoning is that Max never had the ability to manipulate time (or at least never knew she did) until she used it after the shooting. It's not like she actively sought out the ability or anything. And it wasn't even a selfish action - she didn't recognize Chloe at that point, she was just reacting to seeing some girl get shot.

>>2179350
Now we're into Back to the Future territory where even well-intentioned actions can have dire consequences on the future. It's the Butterfly Effect.

>>2179354
Even that isn't an accurate comparison, because there you have a time machine being constructed and used for the express purpose of traveling through time. Max just freaks out in response to a traumatic event, and suddenly is thrown back in time.
So, why is she given time powers if she's not supposed to use them? Why is she given a cryptic and vague warning not to do something that she doesn't even know she is capable of doing?

>>2179357
>why is she given time powers if she's not supposed to use them
Liffe is strange/unfair. If you had magic bank robbing abilities, would you go around robbing banks?

>Why is she given a cryptic and vague warning not to do something that she doesn't even know she is capable of doing?
That was just bad writing. The warning should've come after she found out about her powers.

>>2179358
>If you had magic bank robbing abilities, would you go around robbing banks?
That's not even close to a good analogy, and you know it.
When Max first rewinds time, she does it unknowingly. She didn't mean to, it just happens as a consequence of her panic. Then, upon discovering that, yes, she can manipulate time, it's only natural for her to conclude that she was given this amazing ability for a reason. The thought 'no, I should never use this miraculous power, and just forget I ever had it' is completely irrational.
If the big disruption turned out to be because Max was using her powers too much, then it might've made a little bit of sense. But saying that she should never do something that she was never capable of doing before, and was only able to do because of [unexplained reasons outside her control[ that she accidentally stumbled across, is really dumb.

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>>2179357
Why do you assume some being made a decision to give Max powers? She may have just been bitten by a radioactive time spider or something.

I don't really get why people are so intent on trying to figure out what's going on/hunting for plot holes anyway. It's meant to be a mystery, one Max will never solve.

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>>2179055
>>2179081
>Game trying to guilttrip me for letting a storm destroy a town was kind of cute, as if I wouldn't have massacred everyone personally if it guaranteed the two heroines walking off into the sunset alive together.
Kinda like how in the first Nights of Azure the two heroines let the whole world quite literally burn so they could be together in the darkness. The apocalypse didn't even faze me, I was just glad I got yuri.

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>>2179192
>A senior knight who had an older sister-like relationship with Alushe. She has a cool personality, but also a passionate fighting spirit within her. Although strict when it comes to discipline and her subordinates, she is still admired by her lower ranks for her strength and kindness. She fought against fiends as a holy knight and as the first successful artificial half-demon, but fell to demons in the wake of a certain incident. She has an allurement for Alushe that is unlike herself.
>older sister-like relationship
Yes, she's quite literally MC's onee-sama.

Camilla may not be "ara ara" solely though. She seems like an obsessed mad lesbo scientist.
>Camilla resurrected Alushe as a half-demon. Is her fixed concentration on Alushe due to interest in her as a study subject, or something else?…

>>2179363
>it's only natural for her to conclude that she was given this amazing ability for a reason
That makes no sense. Things just happen. There doesn't have to be a reason, people just like to tell themselves that there's a reason so that they can feel better about what they're doing. It wasn't a miracle, it was a fluke, an exception that shouldn't have occurred.

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>>2178982
The first game had like 5 endings so hopefully they pull off routes.

>>2179385
Weren't some of the endings hard to get?

>>2179369
>I don't really get why people are so intent on trying to figure out what's going on/hunting for plot holes anyway. It's meant to be a mystery, one Max will never solve
Because it forces you to accept an explanation shoehorned in at the last minute. One that doesn't fit what was shown in the previous 4 episodes.

>>2179384
>Things just happen. There doesn't have to be a reason, people just like to tell themselves that there's a reason so that they can feel better about what they're doing
In real life, absolutely. But a story is a different matter. Having crazy things happen 'just because' in a story is bad writing, especially when that crazy thing is a central premise of the story.

>>2179392
>One that doesn't fit what was shown in the previous 4 episodes.
How so? Episodes 1 to 4 don't explain what's happening, and neither does 5.

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>>2179388
All depended on the relationship with the dream Lily. It was grindy if anything.

>>2179392
>Having crazy things happen 'just because' in a story is bad writing, especially when that crazy thing is a central premise of the story.
It happens all the time in postmodern fiction.

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Sweet Volley High.
Worth?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/523730/

>>2179401
Nope. Not even for a dime.

>>2179401
None. There was a bit of a shitstorm over it, but the gist of it comes down to everyone being awful and most yuri leading to bad ends.

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Im hoping for a buff amazonian Lily to be introduced sooner or later in NoA2

>>2179412
Wouldn't any more lilies be too many?

>>2179401
No, it's pure shit. Read the last thread.

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>>2179416
>>2179412
I'm expecting them to add a loli instead.

>>2179384
>Things just happen. There doesn't have to be a reason, people just like to tell themselves that there's a reason so that they can feel better about what they're doing. It wasn't a miracle, it was a fluke, an exception that shouldn't have occurred.
Which is fine and all, but the "universe angry that Max tried to change fate" argument is reliant on the assumption that it isn't true in the LiS setting. If the universe cares about fate then things don't "just happen", there's a force actively directing things toward a particular outcome.

>>2179421
A buff amazonian loli.

>>2179435
I could dig it.

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>>2179435
>>2179437

>>2179428
I don't see how that's a problem. Just don't argue that the universe is angry.

>>2179443
So what is it, mildly upset?

>>2179447
Is the universe so mad at you it starts a small fire whenever you strike a match?

There's no reason to assume it isn't a natural consequence of someone messing with time. As for why William being saved doesn't have the same effect, who knows? Every attempt at striking a match doesn't result in fire either.

>>2179450
I dunno. Does it drop a matchbox full of matches on me when I see somebody freezing to death, allowing me to start a fire, and then after seven days threatens to burn down my city for saving that one person I didn't even know I could save if I don't forward this message to five more people?

>There's no reason to assume it isn't a natural consequence of someone messing with time.
Except that it's tied to a very specific change in time, isn't affected by any other change, doesn't happen in another timeline and doesn't seem to mind that Max messes with time again to undo her progress. So it's not messing with time that triggers the universe, it's Max using that matchbox to save one particular person.

>>2179456
That's also assuming that someone messing with time is a natural occurrence.

>>2179460
Define "natural". It happened to a completely regular person who weren't going out of their way to obtain that power, and didn't even particularly want it, compared to many others, which means it shouldn't have been breaking any in-universe rules. Unless the Old Gods infiltrated their world and decided to make Max the harbinger of doom by bestowing otherworldly powers on her, I'd say it was a possible occurrence within the confines of that universe, just highly unlikely. Like accidentally getting an admin access to somebody's bank account.

>>2179456
That's an awful lot of assumptions. Even if you want to think some conscious entity did give Max the ability to manipulate time, there's no reason to think the same entity is responsible for the tornado. There's also no reason to assume that Chloe surviving caused the tornado; it could be an accumulation of all the messing with time she did, the fact that she rewound once, or the time she tried to save Kate by freezing time. There may be all sorts of hidden variables. The writers clearly didn't want Max or the audience to be able to figure out the rules, so I don't get why people can't just accept that. People don't get usually get annoyed because The Groundhog Day, Dawn of the Dead or Kafka's Trial fail to reveal what's going on.

>>2179485
>there's no reason to think the same entity is responsible for the tornado
There's no reason to think multiple higher sentient beings exist and indulge themselves in fucking with mortals, either. Something gave her those powers. It could've either been a metaphorical error in code, or it could've been a sentient being; it doesn't really matter.

>it could be an accumulation of all the messing with time she did
I talked about it earlier. If it was an accumulation of all time shenanigans, the game would've had some hidden meter affected by how many times you used your rewind. It didn't. You could argue that game mechanics don't matter when we're talking about the game universe, but then this whole discussion is pointless, as game mechanics define rules for that universe..

>the fact that she rewound once
Then going back again wouldn't have fixed it.

>or the time she tried to save Kate by freezing time
Tornado happened in the timeline where she didn't freeze time to save Kate.

>The writers clearly didn't want Max or the audience to be able to figure out the rules
Or they didn't put too much time into writing a decent ending and decided to use the good old trolley problem. Which is further supported by the fact that you can't try to change any of the "hidden variables" by going back and trying again, even if it kills you.

We do have a Life is Strange thread over there >>2163084, you know?

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>>2179401
I feel like this is cheap bait, but just in case it isn't.

>>2179295
There actually is a mindbroken sex slave trapped in basement ending, and there's another bad ending which involves the BDSM dynamic of "Owner/pet".

>>2179501
> BDSM dynamic of "Owner/pet"
>bad ending
W-why though. How bad are we talking about?

>>2179503
That's pretty bad. Oh well.

>>2179501
>>2179503
>mindbroken
>submissive pet play
Kinda out there but I'll take it.

>>2179503
Honestly I expected all the endings to be like that based off her name and description.

>>2179487
>If it was an accumulation of all time shenanigans, the game would've had some hidden meter affected by how many times you used your rewind
Not necessarily. You have to rewind time several times to finish the game; that can be enough to mess time up.

>Then going back again wouldn't have fixed it.
Maybe jumping in a new photo creates a new timeline that is free of time travel messes, except for the ones that can't exist without them, like the one Max enters via Warren's photo. The reason the other timelines still have weird things happening in them is because Max uses information she shouldn't possess in them (saving William, turning in Jefferson).

>Tornado happened in the timeline where she didn't freeze time to save Kate.
Okay, I messed up there.

>Or they didn't put too much time into writing a decent ending and decided to use the good old trolley problem
There's nothing wrong with the trolley problem, especially since it's heavily modified here by Max knowing the people involved. Besides, they could have explained what's going on with Max's powers and still ended with Bay vs Bae.

>that you can't try to change any of the "hidden variables" by going back
Why should they be something Max could change?

>>2179520
>You have to rewind time several times to finish the game; that can be enough to mess time up.
Then going back and not rewinding after saving Chloe would've fixed everything. We aren't given that option, however.

>Max uses information she shouldn't possess in them
She still would have this information in the new timeline. She might not consciously use it, but it would affect her behavior regardless. After the main story starts, there can be no such thing as a fresh new timeline, since at least one person carries the knowledge from all other timelines.

>it's heavily modified
I'm ~70% sure this variation existed before LiS. I might be wrong, though.

>Why should they be something Max could change?
I didn't say they should; I said we should've been able to try to change them. As a player, my primary drive is to try out every possibility before I give up. I only stop when my HP reaches zero. In LiS, we're forced to choose between two endings without putting up a fight, neither of which are satisfactory, at least to me.
Besides, why not? For some reason, the tornado didn't happen in that one timeline, so it seems to be something that Max can affect. It's unlikely she would've had enough strength left to figure out the exact variables, but still. Do or die trying.

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>>2179503
I like what I'm reading.

>>2179503
The dog tail better be a butt plug.

>>2179501
>>2179503
Sounds...lewd.
Well, I'll have to save it for after the happy endings!

>>2179532
That's not even for AA, it's probably just a random image the devs chose as an example.

>>2179540
I'm well aware of that. But Dev mentioned a tail, and I was referring to that, not the image.

>>2179509
It's nice to have an open mind about these kinds of things. If it doesn't turn out to be for you, then you can just gun for the good ending.
>>2179517
There is a single bad end where Alpha does get to be dominant, but it's also the most extreme in terms of kinks. I'm still debating whether or not to go for slight gore, or to keep it at blood play.
>>2179533
They might end up tarnishing your view of the good endings a bit, learning what the characters are capable of after you've already walked off into the sunset with them, so to speak.
>>2179540
This, it's just one of some refs I saved for ideas.

>>2179524
>She might not consciously use it, but it would affect her behavior regardless
After jumping into a photo, Max has a few moments to change things, then enters autopilot mode in which she doesn't possess any extra knowledge until she reaches the date she travelled back from and Max Prime's consciousness takes over again. After that, she no longer possesses knowledge of the future, just of parallel universes. Is that a significant difference? It might be, if changing the past is the only problem. I'm not really advancing this as a serious theory, just trying to show that Dontnod didn't paint themselves into the corner they're often accused of.

>I'm ~70% sure this variation existed before LiS
I'm sure someone's asked if you'd rather sacrifice your significant other or let your friends die, but LiS still does a good job of presenting a very concrete situation. Chloe isn't just an abstract person on the track, or even a generalized partner, but a person with a specific history, personality, flaws and good sides, as are the people of Arcadia Bay. Choosing whether to save her felt like much more than philosophy class homework.

>As a player, my primary drive is to try out every possibility before I give up
I can respect that, but LiS isn't really that kind of a game. You can't usually even go back to the previous area even when there's no plot reason to not dawdle. It would be fun to see a more open time travel game, though designing it would be a nightmare.

>>2179541
In that case yes, it will be. It'll also end up being the only 'toy' insertion in the entire thing due to my 'no phallic insertions' allowed policy.

>>2179543
>They might end up tarnishing your view of the good endings a bit, learning what the characters are capable of after you've already walked off into the sunset with them, so to speak.
Oh, I'm not really worried about that. Well, unless the preceding mind-break is extra bad anyway. However, better to save bad ends for later anyway so they work kinda like lewd AUs for the nice stories!

>>2179545
Yes, this is good.

Oh boy...
https://twitter.com/YuriAmbassador/status/794012812171444225

>>2179648
What. The. Actual. Fuck.

>>2179648
>The reception has been great though!
Why would you go on the internet and tell lies?

>>2179648
I just went to see their Patreon page.

>Show your support, get bonus stream Waifus, get access to my games.
>Waifus

I never giving any money to these devs. Their games always looked shit, anyway.
Also, Yuri Ambassador is stupid.

>>2179662
>Yuri Ambassador is stupid.
Are you basing that entirely off of a single tweet, or?

>>2179673
No.
I knew about his blog already since some years ago.
His posts are kinda cringe for some reason, and I always felt like he cared for fanservice more than actual yuri.

Literally who

>>2179661
like i've said before people generally don't care what happens to lesbians in stories aside from /u/ purefags. I am a purefag myself but i fully recognize that i'm very much a minority in an already small pool of fans.

just avoid anything NWG creates, problem solved.

>>2179705
Had it not been for witnessing the reactions to ladykiller/SVH outside of /u/, I wouldn't have believed that.
Such sad times we live in...

>>2179648
Sad.

>>2179705
Subtext fag here, try being extinct, Not that it matter since I can ship anything as long as I find it cute and no cross-over is involved.

>>2179705
>>2179706
The pain is too real.

That unfamiliar feeling as hope returned to my life when AAdev's game and NoA2 were discussed feels so long ago now.

Vocal minority doesn't represent popular opinion.

Stop being pessimistic as shit. /u/ shames me.

>>2179722
Then you should be shamed for using bad grammar.

>>2179648
>check rest of twitter feed
>all this western stuff

All western lgbt stuff feels like cringe from the games to news stories with tags like "its about time we had ........."

>>2179727
waiting for japan to deliver gets old

>>2179736
But Japan had consistently been the one who deliver yuri that have no offensive "addons."

Sure, they're also the one who invented futa and tentacles and surprised het, but they are also the main producer of pure yuri titles. You know, the core stuff that connect all yuri fans together, even if we all have different additional fetishes.

Western devs simply make me feel like there are enemies on all sides. There are the straight males that care more about fanservice and het than lesbians, there are the straight and bi women who add het somewhere in the work, there are the lesbian and tranny SJWs who think all lesbians like dicks. I just...

Even my favourite and only likable western dev, SaintBomber, added het rape in the backstory of Embric of Wulfhammer's Castle. I like the game so much and thought that it's safe, only to be slapped in the face. I don't enjoy being backstabbed, and western dev consistently give me trust issues.

>>2179740
I think anon means, Japan doesn't do much yuri at all.
We have Flowers coming and...what more?

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>>2179488
>single player game that came out 2 years ago, or one year ago if you want to be generous to when Episode 5 came out
>still has generals running non-stop here and on /vg/

Trying to give us all fucking cancer.

>>2179746
Um, I think nee-san was trying to get it out of the yuri game thread back to where it belongs in its own containment thread.

where we can just minimise it and pretend it doesn't exist, Onee-sama

>>2179742
Not mentioning ancient games like Akaiito/Aoishiro/Katahane/Amaranto, the most famous in recent memories are Sonohana franchise, the 2 nurse games, kindred spirits, rainbow stage, the 2 NoA, Seabed, Tsui Yuri, Seisai no Resonance, Kimihane, x-Qualia, so on and so forth. There's a whole VNDB for you to check yuri games where the lesbians never had any het history, and have high emotional connection to each other (as opposed to tasteless fanservice "lesbians" porn).

If you can't into nip then yeah you're stuck with whatever white faggots and SJWs throw at you, but don't be dumb enough to not know the fact that Japan is the powerhouse of orthodox yuri.

>>2179766
>white faggots
As opposed to what, yellow faggots?

>>2179727
>>2179740
For some strange reasons, western is just prone to extremism. When it's not satanic panic from the religious right, it's cultural marxism from the regressive left.

Japan on the other hand knows when to take a chill pill.

>>2179740
Sounds like you also take things way to personally

>>2179746
>/vg/
>complaining about cancer

>>2179770
Thankfully you didn't say grey faggots. Ayy lmaos are people too, even if they're faggots.

>>2179771
>actually believing a "regressive left" or "cultural marxism" is a thing

Well, I guess some people do need their bogeymen to sleep at night.

>>2179780
>no good games where you can teach the pleasure of girl's love to green and blue alien women

>>2179776
this is /u/, Onee-sama, not /vg/
>>>/vg/ is 2 slots over --->
that way

>>2179798
Yes, but the post implied that they browse /vg/ regularly.

>>2179790
Mass Effect?

>>2179799
Oh, No idea. I don't go to /vg/.

>>2179772
As stated, I do not enjoy being betrayed. I myself read het and futa more than yuri (as far as porn go anyway), but when I see something advertised as yuri and jo ither warning, I expect exclusively yuri.

When a Japanese author/game dev say it's pure yuri, I never have any doubt. Whereas when a western person say it's "pure" yuri, 90% of the time please expect het mentioned somewhere. It's as if in their mind, no lesbian can know they're gay before experimenting/being raped.

Most lesbians I'm friends with both in real life and online had never dated a dude and have a normal childhood. So I know we aren't a rare breed or anything. In fact, the ones who are oblivious of her own orientation are the minority.

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>>2179740
You sure get triggered easily, anon.

I've never seen these imaginary bisexual and straight women that randomly add het somewhere in the west, and I've probably played most yuri there is, both japanese and not, including edgy shit like Tokyo Necro. Oh nevermind, there's het in that japanese game that doesn't affect the yuri, better panic.

>there are the lesbian and tranny SJWs who think all lesbians like dicks

That group doesn't actually exist, you know.
Yuri games with dicks are usually from Japan, in the form of futanari or random rape (Atlach Nacha, etc). Sono Hanabira was originally made to be an alternative to that. Just read what the Sonohana dev quoted from his fanmails.

Are you the anon in the manga thread that keeps freaking out whenever a male character appears in a side panel?

>>2179805
>In fact, the ones who are oblivious of her own orientation are the minority.

>In fact

Don't even.

>betrayed

So you're just instantly gullible, instead of informing yourself before going in.
EVEN THOUGH you're saying you already know that "western devs" (fuck your blanket statements) don't do it right.

>>2179802
They said good game where you teach love. Not a 3-conversations-lets-fuck game. Don't misunderstand, ME1 is a good GAME, though.

>>2179806
Judging how defensive you are, you get triggered by my insulting your hetshit more than I am by western fake yuri.

Tokyo Necro is great, why the fuck would I be offended by het that have nothing to do with the lesbians? Oh wait, you just want to make up shit to bitch about. And in your hurry, you didn't notice I mentioned Katahane as one of the examples of orthordox yuri (which, surprised, have het in it!).

Not sure who you're talking about, but I'm always the one who demand good male characters in yuri manga/anime, because girls-only universe make the yuri feel fake to me.

Finish making stuff up? Why don't you go masturbate to the lesbian boy with vagina in a bind who suck dick?

>>2179807
Western dev detected. You dumbass can't comprehend that people at first need to be tricked one or twice before they're aware it's dangerous to trust you guys, and then even when I've safely shield myself, other new people who got tricked will bitch and moan in these threads, huh? It pissess me off that you pissed them off enough to shitpost. Fuck off.

I must say from the complaints I've received about my refusal to offer het/futa/phallic insertions within this project that there does seem to be those kinds of consumer expectations attached to western yuri, which I think is a shame.

>>2179811
There are small, vocal groups for ANYTHING.
Prime example, /u/ "purity" levels.

>>2179811
/u/ complains if girls do more than stare at each other and make gasping noises.

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>>2179812
>>2179815
Those complaints all came outside of /u/, across multiple platforms. I've received nothing but support from this general which I'm very grateful for.

>>2179817
You muse be new here because /u/ is constantly at war with people opposed to any kind of sex in yuri because they think porn devalues it.

>>2179810
>Finish making stuff up?

Yeah, why don't you? You've got some issues

>>2179818
>Taking purists seriously
How new are you if you think they make up any sort of majority?

>>2179818
>You must be new here
As a dev, I've been posting here for about a year now. As a yurifag, I've been browsing for years.
The only purity argument I ever found ridiculous myself was the whole looking at the viewer means its not yuri thing. From an artistic standpoint, it's simply a more flattering view since profile shots are easy to mess up.

>>2179805
No anon, it sounds like you set up situations to walk into it. This is going beyond justifiable dislike of western devs for being stupid devs. This sounds more like you don't ever look into what has your interest beyond actually playing it and then flipping a table.

Woohoo drama, drama!
Uninformed declarations and unfounded accusations on an anonymus imageboard!
Is it time to bash bisexual girls yet?

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>>2179543
>I'm still debating whether or not to go for slight gore, or to keep it at blood play.
Go full yandere.
Go full doll.
Go full http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hima_wo_mote_amashita_kanemochi_no_asobi#18

>>2179543
Guro would put me off completely, even blood play is already pushing it. Personally speaking.

>>2179815
>girls stare at each other and make gasping noises
I thought that's how sex happened.

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>>2179842
Not as fun as amputating but hey I'm all for it. Don't restrict yourself senpai, so long as it's pure yuri every scenario is great. Not that anon by the way.

>>2179545
I like your policy.

>>2179859
>It's the reason why I removed any instances of explicit rape.
Can this be included in a season pass?

>>2179859
>explicit rape
Oh I remember this. You plan on implied/black out scene? I guess that will ease the backlash.

Hopefully you one day release the "Director's Cut" version/DLC down the line.

>>2179810
If you actually want to help the western scene maybe you should try talking about the many games released which ARE pure yuri, instead of spending five threads promoting the one game that hurt your feelings.

>>2179766
Again, you said a lot of already released games. When comes to new games, we don't have much to wait from Japan for now. It's fact that there's more western deve doing yuri nowadays than Japanese ones.
I'm not even trying to argue about quality. I like some western VN, but avoid most of them because they look bad. And I do think the Japanese VNs that I actually played ate better. But talking numbers, there isn't much to wait for, while they deliver hundred of het every year, if we get one relevant yuri title, we are lucky.

>>2179859
Is it Yuri Rape or Het Rape?

>>2179822
How is Embric not having my interest? Stop making excuses.

There'd be no issue if you come up front and state that a game contains het involving the lesbian/bisexual characters, because I would then be able to decide for myself whether I want to read. Robbing the audiences of that choice is deception. I shouldn't have to go around asking in paranoia "is this '100% yuri'" if a work is advertised as yuri without mention of anything else. "We didn't say it won't have anything else" is a reasoning fallacy, because the burden of warning is on the part of the creator, not the consumer. And that's where you can learn from the nips.

Not understanding this basic trust building will only shoot yourself in the ass. The damage done to me only go so far as being annoyed a couple times. But for you, dishonest devs, you have created a culture where people are reluctance from trying your games and see for themselves if they like it. The more people are skeptical, the more they'll only play games through recommendation, and the less chances your (average to decent) games get popular.

This kind of business foresight is foreign to you guys. So whatever.

>>2179806
>That group doesn't actually exist, you know.
But creator of lets say Ladykiller game is exactly prime example of such group who have their TS western supporters(which you pretty much can read on some Dynasty forum who defend that game take on that infamous lesbian conversion to bi through hetero sex scene) who think lesbians don't exist and they must love the D like bi or straight girls as a rule...

>>2179812
>There are small, vocal groups for ANYTHING.
There are people who complain here about not wanting to see hetero sex involving yuri girls in a yuri adveretised works and there is another group who always defend that take cause that adds so called "realism" and "maturity" to the work.

You can't really please everyone.
Perfect yuri work should just have sex or romance between two girls and more and nothing else.

>>2179987
ten yuri games
one surprise het games
"it's all you devs fault"

>>2179818
randomly going to chime in but; the problem for me with sex in yuri is that everything always seems so flat, the artists usually draw girls without ridiculous curves or make them very elastic so everything is more structured but plain, i don't think they can get
'sexy' down well but then again most yuri games are cute orientated not 'sexy' like het games.

Or i could be talking out of my ass but thats just what i seem to notice.

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>>2180097
>Alt-left yurifags
No such thing. There is only comm/u/nism and the immortal science of marxism-leninism-yuriism.

what does /u/ thinks about when protagonist NTRs someone elses girl?

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>>2180112
>marxism-leninism-yuriism.
>that feel when you're enjoying Their Story and Beloved and you remember how Chinamen hate lesbos

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>>2180115
I'm not sure.
Is she stealing her from a guy? Go for it.
Is she stealing her from a abusive gf? Go for it.
Is she stealing her from a girl who actually loves her and has helped her come out? Hmm...

>>2180116
>>chinamen hate lesbos
Buncha reactionaries i tell ya.

>>2179740
>Added to the backstory
There were hints through the story, anon. It wasn't just tacked on. There was a consistent sense that bad stuff happened while she was captured, and that the whole game was part of her working past it.

I was surprised at first but it made things fall into place, and I understood. To call it backstabbing and a slap in the face is misleading. You're acting like there was an actual rape scene in-game, and there wasn't, and I hope nobody thinks there was because you said this.

>>2180122
>Is she stealing her from a girl who actually loves her and has helped her come out? Hmm...

welp, it would be like.. the other girl would put the girl in question in good position and she would owe quite everything to her, but she wouldn't really reciprocate her feelings
and then feMC would show up as a friend of the other girl and meet her

>>2180166
I personally advertise Embric to every yurifag I talk to, so again, stop jumping to conclusion and stop getting defensive. Focus and fucking learn something, your blind white knighting only serves to propagate bad habits.

You still don't understand what I'm trying to say. I don't care how well written and "fitting" a het rape is, the fact remains it is an annoyance in yuri and needs warning. I like the fact that I can enjoy het works without fearing the guy had been butt raped by a gay dude in his childhood, so I want to enjoy the same confidence in yuri. Why-oh-why do I always have to watch my back around a group of people who share my niche interest? Get better at understanding unspoken rules.

You wanna give excuses? I can give excuse for every shit that are made. "Class S yuri is valid because some girls do get straight after graduating!" Does that make class S any less frustrating to /u/s? No. If you had properly said it's only class S, I would happily try reading it. If you advertised it as yuri only, purposefully omitting the "class S" part, then you'll earn a bad review and a refund request, and an intense reluctance to try anything from you in the future.

Tl;dr: have a common sense on what people understand a yuri work entails, and what needs specification/warning.

>>2180212
>I like the fact that I can enjoy het works without fearing the guy had been butt raped by a gay dude in his childhood
It does happen, though, even in hentai games. And certainly het females have plenty of surprise rape backstories.

>>2180215
Has a lesbian character ever had a lesbian rape backstory though? It seems they only get het rape stories.

>>2180226
kill la kill-
>lesbian character

always with the specifics.

>>2180226
Chikane once raped Himemiya, if that counts.

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>>2180226
Yuri no Hana Gakuen Ryou

>>2180231
>implying satsuki is not a huge siscon dyke

>>2180226
Rain from Valkyrie Drive.

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>>2180226
It's very rare but I welcome more of it. It's definitely better than boring and overused hetshit.

>>2180226
While more statutory than what you probably mean, Aoi Hana.
Fuck the first 95% was so good why'd it have to have such a shitty rushed ending. At least it wasn't a bad end at least.

>>2180212
>Class S
What's all this terminology? Have I missed a guide on classifications in yuri/lesbian/whatever stuff?

>>2180226
Seems somewhat more common for lesbian characters to have an 'ambiguous' lesbian encounter when they were young, statutory or they were confused and not sure what was going on or something like that, rather than left-crying-in-the-bushes rape

>>2180260
>left-crying-in-the-bushes rape
>tfw this is rare in yuri, yet common as stones on the street in het

why this

>>2180257
Hello newbie.

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>>2180257
Class S is fake yuri, it essentially means that girls get together to practice for boys.

>>2180271
Hello grandma.

>>2180283
Grandma will have to whoop your bitch ass if you don't lurk more in the future.

>>2180257
If you want to get some decent information in English on where that term originates from, read Beautiful and Innocent: Female Same-Sex Intimacy in the Japanese Yuri Genre, specifically the stuff about "esu".

However, where the term originates from and how it's used here are quite separate matters.

>>2180287
i can't blame him, i have not seen that term in a long time, and it's been replaced by 'subtext bullshit'

>>2180296
Class S is not subtext. And subtext is not "yuribait" or whatever the fuck shitposters use on /a/ these days.

>>2180287
I have lurked for a good number of threads now (specific ones on /u/) and this is the second or third time I've seen 'Class S' used.

>>2180300
But is class S a form of yuribait?

>>2180304
Done nowadays, yeah. There was a time when it was itself progressive and shocking, I think, but now it's more likely to be used just to give girls depth before sending them to their true loves.

>>2180304
That depends on what you think is "yuribait". Is it things that start as yuri and go het? Is that still yuribait if the yuri was also real? What about things that are slightly yuri in SoL seemingly to get more viewers but never go anywhere? Or anything that starts with obvious directing hints that it is yuri but has no gay ending?

Class S in the "doing it just to practice for future boyfriends" way pretty much never happens today, I can't remember the last time I saw something that could even be labeled as class S. Marimite is everyone's go to example but it was over ten years ago and arguably not just class S.

Actually now that I think about it, depending on how it ends euphonium could 100% qualify as legit class S.

>>2180304
Depends, it's apart of the genre's history but the genre as a whole has thankfully moved away from it largely.

>>2180329
True. But to be honest, euphonium would be shit even if it had yuri. It is too boring.

have you guys ever thought about doing a discord for yuri games?

>anonymous sign-ups
>can separate by topic
>can have somewhere to put all the chat room bullshit

>>2180344
>discord
Leave

>>2180226
Chris from Symphogear.

>>2180346
I like Discord. :^)

>>2180329
That wiki article gave me cancer. Marimite is shoujo-ai at best and the only confirmed lesbian character is still a lesbian after graduation.

>>2180352
>Marimite is shoujo-ai at best
This post gave me cancer.

>>2180353
What can I say, that's how it was called when I first started watching it and I'm not changing my vocabulary after so long.

>>2180346
why? these threads are really active and it would be a good way to weed out the people who basically post nonsense like yours and my post.

>>2180352
>shoujo-ai
yeah we all know that Marimite is a pedo anime

>>2180355
Because discords always become circlejerks. Besides that, most of the shit the thread concerns itself with doesn't need one to begin with since it's largely single player.

>>2180352
>shoujo-ai
Go fuck yourself.

>>2180357
>discords always become circlejerks
This, don't do it.

>>2180353
>>2180356
We need a sticky to explain why shoujo-ai is a bad term.

>>2180361
More like when did it become a bad term.

>>2180361
No new fags can lurk or reveal how stupid they are

>>2180362
It was always a bad term. At least describing anything but straight pedophilia.

>>2180364
Oh god, you retards are actually literally translating it. I should have known better than to come back.

>>2180357
>always become circlejerks
really not that much different than what goes on here.

it's just a thought. the OP was created only a few days ago yet we're close to auto-saging, so a discord would also keep away chatty people

>>2180365
>two people are everyone
We get it anon, you're old and elitist because you're stubborn. yes shame on them for not knowing history regarding the genre, and for adapting to new knowledge.

>>2180365
How retarded can you be?

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B0%91%E5%A5%B3%E6%84%9B

I still remember back when people used shoujo ai constantly, for everything not explicit, and people first started arguing that we should stop because the term was being used wrong and it was shunned in Japan.

As I recall /u/ fucking hated the idea at the time for predictable 'thats how I learnt it, git the fuck off my lawn, it's our term now' reasons.

>>2180369
Less than you
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shoujo-ai

>>2180368
>Implying I want to adopt new words for shit I had back then

>>2180367
You are adorable if you think auto-saging means anything here beyond not bumping. Become concerned when we're suddenly at page nine from being on the front page or reach image limit.

>>2180372

In Japan, the term shōjo-ai (少女愛?, lit. girl love) is not used with this meaning,[6] and instead tends to denote pedophilia (actual or perceived), with a similar meaning to the term lolicon (Lolita complex)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_(genre)

But sure, the Japanese are wrong. You know, the people who make all this stuff.

>>2180372
>urbandictionary.com
anon please

>>2180371
You know that argument would have more credence if the board wasn't so small among other things.

>>2180372
Now that your precious shoujoai.com is gone you should consider moving to dynasty or tumblr. You'll fit right in.

>>2180376
Look at the dates, it was internet vernacular at the time.
>>2180375
>Following the pattern of shōnen-ai, a term already in use in North America to describe content involving non-sexual relationships between men, Western fans coined the term shōjo-ai to describe yuri without explicit sex.
The previous phrase from the same article. Japan don't know shit about the western fandom.

>>2180372
>How retarded can you be?
>Less than you
>posts urbandictionary
>for a japanese term
>in response to a jap wiki explaining the term

Jesus christ.

>>Implying I want to adopt new words for shit I had back then

How does being stubborn make you less retarded?

>>2180381
Either way, separating shoujo ai from yuri just because the series has sex or not is a dumb thing to do.

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>>2180381
You should take this >>2180380 anon's hint.

Plus the term is hardly ever used anymore.

>>2180380
Shoujoai.com died almost a decade ago anon. I'm sure you'd have fitted right in our secret club though. You already found our boogeyman after all.

>>2180373
the thread just filled up fast, that's all

>>2180390
>Shoujoai.com
i feel old

>>2180394
I miss thread pruning desu

>>2180380
>shoujoai.com
What went on in there?

>>2180395
oh come on, this discussion is not as bad as the octave ones

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Nothing get's p/u/ssies hotter than talking about Erica Friedman

>>2180402
Thanks for making me feel old anon. the dead website wasn't doing it for me.

>>2180402
>Erica Friedman
oh anon please

>>2180402
>Erica
if only REEEEEEE had been a thing at the time

>>2180402
she has some of the worst taste imaginable. also she's 60 or something yet isn't that cool hip grandma who likes yuri, but that crotchety old lady who calls the cops when you drive 5 miles over the speed limit

Reminder that this is the game thread, not that I blame you for mistaking it for the general one considering what's going on.

>>2180402
I still remeber how my precious Simoun Boxset has a "special thank you to Erica Friedman"...

>>2180409
we need one of this but with gokigenyou instead of octave

>>2180411
>"special thank you to Erica Friedman"
seriously?

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So, how was this game?

>>2180415
https://www.lewdgamer.com/2016/11/03/review-ne-no-kami-the-two-princess-knights-of-kyoto/

>>2180414
I'm serious.

>>2180415
>>2180416
>You see, the problem with the ending is that it ends on a cliffhanger. Yes, once the story becomes interesting and readable, the game abruptly ends. The entire story thus far was just the build up to another game.

this is bad enough in AAA games. at least give it a good cut-off point and resolution

>>2180417
post pic

>>2180420

i second this... but maybe we can continue over in the general general. i feel bad derailing like this. >>2179626

>>2180416
>The H-scenes are all yuri, so there isn’t much variety

>>2180423
he's not wrong, most yuri VN scenes are:
>fingering
>69
>oral
>tribbing
>lay on eachother and kiss

rarely do they venture into something more lewd.

>>2180425
Like one of them growing tentacles/a dick and having a wrestle match?

>>2180425
Blame the people who cry about toys or bondage.

And peeing.

>>2180428
>peeing.
get out yuna

>>2180425
It's because no one wants to do bondage, sm, frottage, exhibitonism(though that's not that exciting), ws, and toys. Though toys tend to overlap somewhat with bdsm. No face sitting either.

>>2180425

What's more lewd than tribbing? That's pretty much as dirty as you can get in yuri until you start bringing lady horses and chainsaws into the mix.

>>2180431
>exhibitionism
>not that exciting
Shit taste detected.

>>2180436
I find it exciting but it's largely situation based anon. They're basically doing the same things but you know, in public with a risk of getting caught or blatantly.

>>2180426
yeah, anon, just what i want. nice strawman

>>2180434
anal, face sitting, doing it in public, toys that don't necessarily have to look like dicks, peeing, strap-ons, two girls on one vag, one girl licking in front and one in back, fucking with your parents in the next room, your mom joins in, etc.

>>2180425
I mean if there is a dick it isn't like there is a whole lot of diversity either. Mostly just more positions.

There are quite a few things you can add to the things in that list, like drugs, bdsm, rape, "rape", NTR/someone watching, more than two girls, combinations of the above, etc. Toy also open up a lot of new options even if they are usually somewhat disliked. I guess you never see anal in yuri but I don't really want to either.

I think the problem is just that generally people think yuri alone is enough, since it usually is, so few people bother making niche within a niche stuff since it either is triple niche or the people who are into both are much rarer.

>>2179908
Everybody comes to 4chan to bitch, not to praise.

I don't like it, really, but... it is what it is.

>>2180438
Rimming is something you don't see enough in yuri. Girls with soft plump butts are also something you don't see enough in yuri.

>>2180440
You probably have the right of it with people viewing it as a niche so no need to expand on the kinks. Kind of sad that it's growing popularity hasn't caused it to branch out from nichedom

>>2180445
this anon speaks the truth

>>2180445
True, all of that.

>>2180445
I was hoping the butts manga that Yuri-ism did would've had rimming, but NOOOOOOOOOO

I liked it anyway

>>2180416
>“What about the lewd stuff? How do you fit a yuri love story into all of this?” The answer is simple: You don’t. This was about hour six of the story, and there was no lewdness to be found. Ne No Kami is all about war and the political struggle between two opposing ideologies. The yuri scenes are tacked on near the very end. It took about eight hours to see two girls kiss, and it was another few hours before the H-scenes began.

>>2180215
The point is that it's very rare to see a het male subjected to homo rape. So it doesn't make me paranoid.

Het girls got raped in a het work doesn't carry the same impact either. Simply because it doesn't erase her sexuality with "girls only become lesbians because they had been hurt by bad males," corrective rape violence, and conversion fetish. It comforts me that a girl who had been hurt by males get a good end with a nice guy, because in a sense, he's making amends for people of his own gender.

Embric could have very well had the Duchess got raped by her aunt instead of uncle. Women are perfectly capable of rape and pedophilia. If a dev is truly into the "realism" aspect, then they should give these numerous incidents proper representation, rather than the overblown statistics of het raped lesbians.

>>2180612
the rape stuff was just teenagers first edgy though.

>>2180619
Male characters are just as much if not much more proned to dark past or mid-story tragedy, but if you notice, these edginess are always badass in its nature. Dead parents, dead comrades, sole survivor of a race, amputation, scarring, labour enslaving, becoming a serial killer, jaded sodier loner, etc.

Whereas girls are always subjected to much more undignified stuff, i.e. het rape and sexual enslaving.

If a person is truly not sexist, he/she will naturally prefer more "badass" edginess for their girl characters. And stories of girls being raped should not be that much higher than males being homo raped or castrated. As you can see, the mass dislike seeing their male heroes get degraded to that extent. This double standard is the main reason why I hate it so much.

>>2180628
This.

>>2180628
Agreed. I don't have a problem with rape being used as an element in a story, but I'm so utterly sick of the incredibly lazy writing of "we need our female character to have something bad happen so she gets/was raped". That goes for every form of media.

Are people actually acting like the Duchess's backstory was supposed to make her more badass? What the hell? It was a genuinely traumatic event that made perfect sense in the context of the story apart from the twist, which still, there were several hints toward through the story.

>>2180741
No, we are just tired that female characters never get badass backstories, it is always just rape backstories. Not just Embric, most of media is like that.

>>2180744
The fact that it's so common doesn't mean it never has a legitimate case, though.

I wish I could remember it more clearly to argue this point but I only just restarted after a few years and I can't remember all the details, I just worry all this arguing would give the wrong impression to people who haven't played it yet. It's a very easily spoiled game. The most upsetting part wasn't even the molesty background so much as best girl not being real

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Stargazers is up on Mangagamer
https://www.mangagamer.com/detail.php?goods_type=1&product_code=190

>>2180762
FFS legitimate or not has never been relevant. Why the fuck do you keep having the girls get raped? Go rape some dude. Don't you always bitch and moan that males got raped just nearly as much as women?

And why the fuck does the Duchess have to be raped by a male? Nasty aunties like Mother Gothel or Umbridge archetype can put their hands on a little child. It still serves the purpose of the Duchess tragic backstory, without making yurifags mad.

Let me answer that, you just want to see girls getting dicked because that's the only way you can "pity" her. You never respect them in the first place. On the other hand, can't have precious biys going through the indignity of rape, aye?

https://sendo.itch.io/to-libertad

Another entry in the Yuri Game Jam.

>>2180762
>The fact that it's so common doesn't mean it never has a legitimate case, though.
And anon's argument as I understand it is that they've reached the point where it doesn't matter anymore. It's a development that they already don't like for personal taste, that is handled badly most of the time, and that they've seen time and time again in fiction. When it turns out that the 100th time they see this development it's actually fitting to the story and done well, what do you think is going to happen?

People cannot judge a piece of fiction in a vacuum, independent of any other fiction they've ever read/watched/listened - that's simply not how human works.

>>2180779
Not that I necessarily disagree, but how old is Embric at this point?

>>2180774
Yeah, but who cares about actual yuri games?

>>2180883
>t. Anon who doesn't care about games

>>2180329
Yuribait is not a thing. It's a shit nonsensical term originated in Hibikek threads.

>Actually now that I think about it, depending on how it ends euphonium could 100% qualify as legit class S.
Hibikek is also confirmed to be explicitly NOT YURI by the author.

>>2180352
"Shoujo-ai", just like "yuribait" is a retarded western term made up by retards.

>>2180942
Yuribait as a term is older than that. I do recall someone calling K-On! yuribait. Not that I disagree with it being a retarded term.

>>2180943
Maybe originated was a wrong word but Hibikek shitstorm definitely popularized it to annoying levels. The fact that it's being used here unironically is just the worst.

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>>2180779
It is frustrating, anon, I'll give you that. I'll also give you this guide some anon in /u/lit made to aid weary yuri travelers like yourself.

>>2180942
I assumed yuribait was the same concept as queerbaiting in general, where someone with a mainstream property plays up hints of gay to look edgy and try to get the population of people into that to get excited, then drops it in favor of staying mainstream.

Which is why I'd say for the most part anything Class S today is probably bait. There aren't a lot of fans who are specifically into only class-s, as far as I know, so it's unlikely that they'd be doing it because that was the story they really yearned to tell and/or thought people really wanted to see. There's nothing interesting or provocative about it in itself. It's just "Look, they're a bit gay! ... Except they're not really. Pysch!"

So did we run out of bad yuri games to complain about so now we need to complain about good ones and just general shit or what?

>>2180942
>originated in Hibikek threads.
How fucking new are you?

>>2180965
Thanks anon, I'm actually an oldfag though so my rape radar had been mastered since ages ago. I simply wanted to put this conversation on the table, on the off chances that aspiring game devs and writers will listen and be more fair to their fans.

What's sad is that, even though I had gotten very good at avoiding het rape in yuri games/fics, it's still difficult to avoid other kinds of het. Just the other day finished a fic where the epilogue made the married lesbians pregnant from a random male. Genetic cuckold is equally frustrating. If you can't have magic/science baby, then fucking adopt a child. At this rate, I might not want to read any yuri that isn't written by a bonafide lesbian. Straight males, bisluts, and trannies disappoint too much.

>>2180995
>Genetic cuckold
How are sperm banks different from "science babies"? Unless she got a man to fuck her, then yes, it's shit.

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>>2180425
>>2180438
It's a shame the Yuri no Hana series died so early because it got exactly what you said

>>2180991
See >>2180946

>>2180485
Are you the one Yuriism staffer who took the time in one of the Butts release posts to express your intense hope for a rimming scene?

Well I don't like rimming, but I'm sorry for your loss anyway.

>>2181001
"science baby" is when the kid has 2 biological mothers thanks to science or some kind of magic. Maybe something like that mouse named Kaguya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaguya_(mouse)

>>2181054
While it's reasonable to be annoyed if there's a plot where the lesbian goes out and shags a bloke to get pregnant, I think being grossed out by a sperm bank is really taking it too far.

>>2181066
Same, but opinions differ.

>>2178881
You aren't the only one onee sama I still sob into my pillow over that terrible release I really miss Loren why the devs put Loren 2 in dev hell I have no idea. Worse decision they ever made and it explains why their profits keep dropping because their new games suck.

Is the version of Stargazers on itch.io the adult version or all ages version?

Has anyone played yet?

>>2181066
The fic is in medieval setting so yes, the lesbians shagged the dude offscreen. They even smeared it on the readers' face by giving that random male a father-son bonding moment and the lesbians seeing him as a friend.

But even without that, I personally can't stand genetic cuckold. (Science baby in yuri context is always iPS cells technology or similar btw, not artificial insemination from a sperm bank.) If you like it, more power to you. Just know that there are people who don't want themselves nor their partner to have a child of a third person. Adoption is a perfect resolution. Not to mention a much more philanthropic one.

>>2181152

It looks like all ages.

>>2181160
I don't understand why not many people write adoption, Nanofate + Vivio was the cutest thing of all.

>>2181160
By the way what is the name of this story/game? Tell me so I can avoid it.

>>2181196
Winter in the Rose House, a Frozen fic.

>>2181079
I don't think he intentionally 'puts' a game in dev hell, it usually means a writer fucked off and left him in the lurch

>>2181206
Kristoff or Hans is the father?

>>2181246
Random male OC.

>>2181160
>genetic cuckold
When you adopt, your child literally has none of your genes as well. Are we going double cuckold now?

>>2181293
Yeah but then no male put their genes into your body.

>play some of these yurijam games because why not
>all the ones i pick are a combo of unfinished, 20 minutes long, no kiss scenes, barely any romance

i didn't go in with any expectations and i'm still disappointed