/5eg/ Fifth Edition General:

>>53714804
>What's the one class you will never play and why?
All of them, because I am forever a DM.

Why is that dwarf sleeping in his armor?

>>53714592
>a warlock knows all eldritch invocations, and can switch between any they meet the requirements for upon taking a long rest.

>Does this fix the warlock?

No, but it allows for some utility thrown in with whatever else must-have never-changes invocations that you can rotate through.

Honestly, I like Warlock for the flavor invocations. Mask of Many Faces, etc, and I desperately wanna play one, but I think I'll just frustrate myself.

I haven't gotten the chance to play yet. Always the DM, never the bride, or something like that,

>>53714804
>What's the one class you will never play and why?
I will play all classes, but I wont play certain subclasses because they suck, ex:
Wot4E Monk
Berserker Barbarian
I also think healbot clerics are boring.

>>53714738
Kleef is from one of the books in the Sundering series.
The others:
>Crag Ungart, a shield dwarf whose keen, strategic mind makes him an efficient, but detached, leader
>Cazi Alphelandra, a wild elf, who likes to talk loudly and carry a big stick. Cazi’s giant bow, “Big Banta”, is custom-made for hunting large monsters, including dragons and giants, and she can wield it with deadly effect.
>The team of “Hook, Line, and Sinker”:
>Helena “Hook” Nostrum is the glue that binds the group together. It’s her iron resolve and leadership that keep the others focused and sharp. She’s no stranger to the destructive power of giants and has dedicated herself to knowing how to stay one step ahead of her prey.
>Lai “Line” Antolio is a master of contraptions. He’s a high-strung perfectionist, with a mind that never stops thinking about the next trap or technique. And finally, Solara “Sinker” Thann.
>She’s a paladin who has taken an oath to protect the natural order, and giants smashing the world are not part of the plan. She prefers straight-up melee combat, but is patient enough to hang back and let Lai’s traps do their work.

Per Mearls they were a team of PCs created during the art concept phase of building the SKT book, but they don't appear in the module otherwise and they have no stats. So now they're just generic model stand-ins.

>>53714873
>Why is that dwarf sleeping in his armor?
because he's not a fucking idiot.

>>53714873
Because he is a dwarf.

I'd like some thoughts on my new character idea
I'm an entirely new player, never really played D&D before or any other P&P

A Drow Monk that was found abandoned and taken back to a highly secluded kung fu school/monastery knockoff of Shaolin, with the hermit background to suit that.

>>53714804
OP, if you're going to jump the gun on a new thread, at least put minorities in the picture. It's common courtesy.

As for your question, I'd play anything thematically, but I don't really like managing a full caster in 5e.

>>53714873
>Why is that dwarf sleeping in his armor?
If he takes it off, he'll die.

>>53714873
Becuase hes used to sleeping on rocks and the armor fairly comfortable by his standards>>53714873

>>53714804
I've played everything but Warlock and Sorcerer. Might play a stone sorcerer next, but Warlock just seem boring as hell. I'll probably never play a Mystic either, not a fan of psionics

>>53714804
>What's the one class you will never play and why?

Barbarian, for being an angry fighter. Sorcerer, for being a shitty wizard. Those are the only two. The classes don't even need to exist.

>>53714920
dwarves are much life turtles, their spines are fused to their platemail.

>>53714912
>Drow
Not gonna be too harsh on you since you're new, but why specifically drow?

>>53714894
Cool, shame sowm of them didn't make it in

>>53714912
>Muh good boy drow

Don't do it, lad. Drizzt has poisoned the entire notion of PC Drow forever (unless you're playing a BDSM spider lesbian, then go for it)

Should eating a Myconid be considered an evil act?

>>53714946
I like Dunmer + thought Trance elf racial suited

>>53714887
>You forget: power points
5e has a spell point variant system. It's in the DMG.
>supernatural qualifier
Doesn't exist in 5e. No need for it.
>no need of components or incantations except for a simple thought and a line of sight.
Literally just ask your DM. Maybe replace your level 1 school feature with it. Removing components and verbal/somatic components is strong, but not at all broken as they rarely come up anways.

>And all those specific powers.
If you're asking people to write you a laundry list of spells you're being an enormous faggot. Most 3.x spells translate pretty directly in terms of level, cast time, effects, just reference existing 5e spells to tweak the numbers. Shit's easy.

>>53714804
>What's the one class you will never play and why?
Probably wizard. I mean, haven't played enough games of D&D, but for whatever reason I'm put off by Wizards.
>>53714879
>healbot clerics
Hoping to play a Kenku Cleric with trickery domain in an upcoming game, if it goes well I'll let y'all now

Probably Wizard. I like most of the classes and I think any class can be interesting with the right character and mindset, but wizards are a bit one dimensional. They're great at what they do, but that's it.

>>53714988
>trickery domain
>goes well
Pick one.

>>53714873
>Why is that dwarf sleeping in his armor?
Have you ever slept in armor? It's comfy.

>>53714929
Warlock isn't boring, but you have to have the right mindset.
Most people who complain about the warlock think it's a wizard alternative. It isn't. It's a rogue alternative. Think about it - high DPR, low AC with escape options, and utility that does not rely on expended resources.
From that perspective, warlocks can be a lot of fun as problem-solvers and strikers. Just get used to thinking of Eldritch Blast as a basic attack.

>>53714981
Common misconception, but Drow aren't Dunmer. Drow are literally mostly evil and everybody hates them as a result. They are not part of the society that other races form like in TES.

>>53714912
>Drow Monk
>Not Wood Elf
why tho?

>>53714920
Not really, but it would be extremely painful.

>>53715002
Tell me more about Warlocks as a Rogue alternative. The only thing that comes to mind is the invisible familiar scouting up ahead.

>>53714970
No. They're Neutral. It COULD be an evil act, depending on how it goes down, but in a strict mechanical sense of how D&D alignment works, merely consuming myconid flesh isn't the same as channeling negative or positive energy in the "inherently aligned" sense of an action.

>>53714968
>>53715002
Well I read the player's handbook and it said that Drow are mostly evil or neutral, and most monks are Lawful Neutral so I went with that.

>>53715003
Like I said earlier, I like Dunmer.

>>53714998
Huh. I figured there would be a lot of pinching and poking.

>>53714996
Not a good domain to use? Figured it'd work for Kenku. Can you recommend another domain worth going? Basic thing i'm going for is that my character has basically been forced into becoming a cleric as punishment for stealing some holy relic, so if anyone can provide ideas, lemme know

>>53715018
Not that guy, but it's pretty simple.

The 'role' of a rogue in the party mostly deals down to two things:
>big damage, but squishy so it's not a guaranteed thing every turn
>high bonuses to skills for out of combat utility

Warlocks cover the damage portion in the form of Eldritch Blast + Hex. As for skills, while they don't get expertise or a particularly impressive skill list, between invocations and having a short rest refresh they're slots they're extremely capable of applying magic as a skill replacement in most situations.

>>53715030
Im working more on cultural sentience, because by rules definition a paladin can eat a lich and suffer no ill effects outside of a constitution check

>>53715053
Listen, don't play a drow if you're going to be wondering about above ground. You won't have fun. The group will have a guy that is mostly useless for most of the time they'll be adventuring. And you'll be that guy with a special snowflake character that doesn't do anything well enough to validate his choices other than muh specialness

>>53715030
>channeling negative or positive energy in the "inherently aligned" sense of an action
Neither of these are aligned. Negative energy isn't Evil, Positive energy isn't Good.

The confusion comes from certain ACTS, which are most easily performed via those actions, having an alignment. Creating undead = Evil. How do you create undead? Pump a bunch of Negative energy into them. Healing the sick = Good. How do you do that? Pump a bunch of Positive energy into them. Another source of confusion is that the Upper Planes, where all the Good people hang out, are awash in Positive energy; but so is the Feywild, and that place is full of shitters.

But you can channel Negative energy to remove deleterious afflictions or melt someone's face off with Positive energy. The fact that you're using those "elements" doesn't modify the act to be any more or less Good / Evil. Positive and Negative are no more aligned to Good or Evil than Fire or Earth.

>>53715053
It's not even about that. The hobby was plagued, for years, by faggots rolling up good boy Drow player characters, who by the very rule of their society, are automatically special snowflakes for shunning their culture and people to go muck around on the surface with a bunch of ibleth who hate them.

It will also automatically sour the other players' opinion of you. It's like playing a Star Wars RPG and rolling up "Duke Guywalker", a guy raised by his aunt and uncle on Scrantooine, who is actually the son of a Jedi.

Pls avoid the "good boy drow" cliche.

>>53715002
>Rogue
>high DPR
They do average damage at best

>>53715072
Go tempest. The holy relic you stole has something to do with a thunder god and you now have to be an agent of his sparky wrath.

>>53715078
>they're slots
fuck

>>53715018
Sure.
From Pact Boon, you get either a familiar, which, as you mention, is a fantastic scout (scouting being a primary function of rogues). Better than a rogue in many situations, actually, because it's sneakier and if it gets caught you don't lose a party member.
Alternatively, you can get a ritual book, which can potentially provide you with a host of solutions to problems that don't rely on expending spell slots, even if they take a bit of time to use.
And then there are invocations, which let you do everything from levitating to changing your face at will to reading all writing, all of which let you either get around having to roll to solve problems or give you advantage to various rolls.
And if you really have to, and don't anticipate combat in the next hour or two, you can cast immensely useful spells like Suggestion, Dispel Magic, Fly, Remove Curse, Dimension Door, Hallucinatory Terrain, Contact Other Plane, Dream, or Scrying, and eventually gain access to once-a-day True Seeing, Plane Shift, Demiplane, and Astral Projection.
Warlocks are fantastic problem-solvers, which rely on spell-slot management a lot less to solve problems (the majority of your spell slots will frankly be used to cast Hex). If you think of them like that, you start seeing that many of the complaints and the attempts to "fix" them are misplaced.

>>53715086
The only real disadvantages are attack rolls and perception checks on enemies in direct sunlight, and I'm not planning to be really social with the guy.

>>53715098
It's not about being ''good boy drow'' considering he's not even good, and since he was raised his whole life away from society I'm not taking some edgy story where my guy was like FUCK SOCIETY or whatever.

I feel like he's more monk than drow, I don't get the overreaction to this idea.

>>53715066
Theres probably alot of padding, so its like a form fitting sleeping bag

>>53715097
>>53715097
>>53715097
>>53715097
So much fucking this.

>>53715151
>the only real disadvantages are...
No, the real disadvantages are every single NPC assuming you're there to murder everybody and shooting you in the face. It's not a mechanical issue, it's a setting issue.

>>53715072
It's just a terrible Domain in general. Also, it wouldn't be much of a punishment to become a Cleric of Trickery for a kenku that is literally a trickster already. That's like being rewarded for being a faggot.

>You stole some shit and pulled pranks, have some Divine Power

It's more funny if the Kenku is forced to be the cleric of something completely fucking insane that he has NOTHING to do with, and is torn between being naturally a dick with his bird mimicry and sneakiness, and using his divine powers of curing the diseased or exploding the undead. And then being a dick with his bird mimicry.

>feeding some starving orphans
>but you snuck spicy pepper into it
>all of the orphans are glad that they're not starving but they're all sneezing and have watering eyes and it's so spicy
>CAW CAW CAW

>>53715177
>very single NPC assuming you're there to murder everybody and shooting you in the face.

What if I wear a mask?

>>53715151
The overreaction is due to a long, long history of bad players playing drow. Talk to your DM and see what he thinks. Talk to your group too and see how they feel about it.

>>53715197
I don't have a DM, currently LFG for roll20 or something

>>53715102
To be fair, would absolutely LOVE to roll a tempest cleric simply due to thunder-based shit being fun af. Will discuss with my DM

>>53715097
>>53715177
Except that's NOT how D&D works. It's always some philosophy fag who wants to shit up the mechanics and try to introduce "intention" into the scale of GOOD and EVIL.

You might not like it, but in D&D, GOOD and EVIL are tangible things. It's not like a moral dilemma where you need to wonder if things are good or evil.

Blame Gygax if you want, but negative energy is evil, regardless of what you're using for, how you use it, or the purpose of channeling.

>>53715078
>>53715133
Could you guys elaborate on using magic as an alternative to skills? I get what you guys are saying, but it seems to me that unless the Warlock player knows very well what sort of campaign it will be and the DM doesn't throw any curve balls, that using spells as a replacement of skills won't go over too well.

>>53715180
I love you friend, Would be very glad to have you at my table

>>53715212
Did they keep that for 5e? I don't remember reading anything about Inflict Wounds or other necromancy spells being evil just because the type of energy they are channeling is bad.

>>53715203
Ok, that's another story. I don't really know exactly how Roll20 works, but I think you can submit your character sheet to an ongoing game or to a game that's about to begin and the DM decides if it's viable or not, right? If so, submit you character to several groups and see if any of them roll with it. And emphasize the monastic aspects of your PC.

>>53715187
Then some of them won't care and the rest will wonder why you wear a mask. Think of real life - if you go around covering your face all day, people get suspicious.

>>53715212
>negative energy is evil
[citation needed]
Not sarcasm, BTW. I honestly think you're wrong and wonder where you got that impression.

>>53715212
>You might not like it, but in D&D, GOOD and EVIL are tangible things.

in 3e only

>Blame Gygax if you want

its a 3e only thing

Why do you shit up 5e threads with 3e alignment metaphysics?

>>53715212
Alignment doesn't have mechanical effects or associations on this edition

>>53715212
Anon, I'm the guy who's always in here telling people that "intention doesn't matter" and certain things have concrete associates with Good and Evil, which are tangible things.

And now I'm telling you that you're wrong, and Negative Energy is not Evil. Read that fucking post again and you'll see that I don't mention intention, only actual action. You killed someone, you healed someone, you made an undead abomination. What energy you used to do that doesn't matter.

Negative is not Evil.
Positive is not Good.
There are plenty of non-Evil spells, both Necromancy and Conjuration, which have the Negative descriptor but have completely benign or beneficial effects.
And if you pump Positive energy into someone all day long, you will fucking kill them.
Neither of these energies gives a shit about you or anything else. They are purely tools. Just because your city has a murder (Evil) problem and everyone does it with daggers doesn't mean that the concept of a short bladed weapon is Evil itself.

Yes, Moral Objectivity is a thing in Forgotten Realms.
No, Positive and Negative energies aren't aligned any way.

>>53715260
I have no idea how roll20 works either

>>53715264
>if you go around covering your face all day, people get suspicious.

Perhaps some sort of religious headwear, a helmet or turban covering the face or something?

>>53715277
The way you describe Positive/Negative energy makes it sound more like the name is a function of math rather than a function of morality

>>53715296
They are simply named after their respective planes. Positive energy derives from the positive plane.

>>53715274
It's one of my favorite changes from 3.5e (never played 4e)

>>53715264
>>53715273

He's not wrong, but you're not exactly wrong either.

Negative Energy and Positive Energy have always been explicitly Evil and Good. However, things changed a little bit in 4E and have remained changed in 5E.

The main "example" is Clerics. Clerics used to channel either positive or negative energy, but this was problematic for the reasons you mentioned.

They sidestepped this issue by changing it to Radiant/Necrotic energy, which are not aligned. They did not however, remove the Negative or Positive energy planes.

"Evil" in D&D was literally and figuratively "negative energy". The problem comes with the English language, where people apply two different meanings to the same word.

Frankly, the very notion that any action in and of itself is evil is absolutely insane and opens up an entire can of worms about muh cultural morals, and "do Orcs see themselves as the bad guys", which is why Alignment should be gutted entirely.

>>53715274
>Alignment doesn't have mechanical effects or associations

Except it does.

There are spells and items that affect and/or require specific alignments.

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>>53715066
You don't have bare flesh or even something like a t-shirt or sweatpants between you and the metal of your armor. There's much thicker padding.
Since it conforms to your body, there's also no problems with rolling around in your sleep and getting your clothes bunched or snagged under you, which is why people sleep naked.
Its rigidity also prevents you from crushing your limbs if you lay on your side; think of how obnoxious it is to be putting all of your weight on one arm and shoulder half the time. That's just not a concern in plate armor, which is like a little shell keeping you from squishing yourself.
The added size and bulk of your greaves keeps your knees from touching and holds the legs slightly apart, which is better for your spinal alignment and fends off certain back issues and promotes restfulness. People sleep with pillows between their knees for exactly this reason.
And since you're self-contained, warm, and internally padded, you can sleep on hard surfaces instead of piling up the blankets and sleeping bags to make a plush mattress that you sink into. Lying on a hard flat floor is also better for your body's natural spine and bone alignment.
Stepping back from the physical, imagine the mental state of someone sleeping out innawoods. Any number of bandits or evil creatures or monstrous beings could be sneaking up to murder them in the night. Maybe you'll hear 'em and wake up first, but oh no--you're not wearing your armor. Do you sleep safer and sounder knowing there's a gun under your pillow or in your nightstand and all the doors are locked? So does the man sleeping in his armor.

So that Dwarf is having the safest, warmest, comfiest, most musculo-skeletally restorative sleep out of everyone in the party.
If the DM cared one lick about realism, he'd give that guy bonus Exhaustion level reductions or some temporary HP upon waking up.

>>53715323
>Negative Energy and Positive Energy have always been explicitly Evil and Good.
Explicitly stated to be that by who?
Where?

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>>53715274
>alignment doesn't have mechanical effe-

>>53715223
The same can be said for skills ("you gotta know what to have proficiency in...")
The warlock and the rogue both build an arsenal of problem-solving tools. In the rogue's case, it's a variety of social and infiltration skills and tools. In the warlock's, it's a familiar and invocations like Mask of Many Faces and Beast Speech.

Let's look at the two classes solving common problems:
1. Convincing a guard to let you into the city
Rogue: I roll persuasion. If that doesn't work, I roll stealth and athletics to climb the walls without him noticing.
Warlock: I make myself look like a member of the guard, avoiding a roll or gaining advantage on deception. If that doesn't work, I use at-will levitate to get past the wall while my familiar distracts the guard.
2. Locating a villain's lair
Rogue: I gather intelligence using persuasion and deception checks and following people around using stealth. I pickpocket some coins and use them as bribes.
Warlock: I use Beast Speech to ask the local rats where people go who wear the villain's insignia.
3. Getting past an apparent dead end
Rogue: I use investigation to try and find a secret door. If there is one and it's trapped or locked, I use my thieves' tools to get around those obstacles.
Warlock: I use my ability to see in the darkness and through invisibility to notice things that would otherwise be hidden, like invisible switches. Failing that, I use my at-will detect magic to spot any magical protections that might reveal the location of whatever they're protecting.

The trick is, problems are endless and your toolkit is limited, so you learn to use what you have in creative ways. This is true for both rogues and warlocks, and different from wizards or bards who may have dozens of spells but have to prepare the right ones and have sufficient slots left to cast them.

>>53714936
barbarian is more mechanically interesting than the fighter though. just refluff rage as a kind of battle focus and play it like a normal fighter.

>>53715296
>more like the name is a function of math rather than a function of morality
Because it's not a function of morality. That's the whole point of the post! They have nothing to do with your morals.

When the universe sat down in FR and wrote down that A, B, and C are varying amounts of Good, and X, Y, and Z are varying amounts of Evil, at no time did they ever put "Positive energy" or "Negative energy" on their list.

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>>53715277
>murdering someone is bad
>healing someone is good

>someone is deathly ill and wants to be killed but you hate them so you keep healing them

>>53715378
Martial Trance

>>53715223
Warlock magic isn't a 1:1 replacement for skills. It provides comparable amount of utility, just sometimes in different places.
>devil's sight + invisibility for scouting
>levitation to climb
>speak with animals and disguise self at-will
>Friends/Charm Person for social situations
>ritual book opens up all sorts of fun

If you've got a warlock and a rogue they'll probably be good at different things, but the warlock is much more like a roguish skillmonkey than it is like the wizard.

>>53715398
But paladins can cure disease

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>>53715398
Ilmater and Kossuth see your suffering as a noble act in pursuit of perfection.

>>53715396
>FR

Dropped.

5E is a mechanical system, not a setting. Let's stay objective here.

>>53714804
Can you D&D faggots fuck off already?

>>53715431
FR is o b j e c t i v e l y the default setting of 5E and the one which most people are familiar with.

>>53715296
>helmet/turban/whatever
Sure, but at some point you'll be expected to take it off to greet an important person, and then (in most settings) you'll get shot.
I'm not trying to get in your way here, just letting you know that playing drow in most campaigns is an enormous social hindrance, and you should absolutely not do it without talking to your DM first. And since you're looking for a DM online, it would be a lot easier to find one with literally any other race.
[/spoiler]Also, drow are elves, and therefore usually chaotic, not lawful.[/spoiler]

>>53715433
NiggerOP seems to have picked up a new trick

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>>53715433

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Should a 5e monster have fast healing? How would you word it to be different from regeneration? "This ability stops functioning once the monster reaches 0 hit points"? How best to word it? Also has anyone else tried converting monsters from 3.5 to 5e? I'm still trying to fix pic related, not sure what the CR should be.

Whats the viability of a level 12 human character with 1 level in each class

>>53715373
>>53715404
There are some catch-all skills, though, that I don't think a lower level spell can even compare.

Perception, for instance, is incredible to have expertise in. You'll probably use that all game long repeatedly. Granted, I might have chosen a front-loaded skill to illustrate my point, but that's because I'm not too smart.

But anyway, thank you for opening up a different way to play Warlocks to me. If I ever get to play, I might roll one and try that out.

>>53715323
>always been explicitly...
Once again, citation needed. As far as I can tell, this is an invention of 3.5 (not even 3e).
And you'll note that the positive and negative energy planes are explicitly NOT aligned in 4e. The Shadowfell will kill you because that's what negative energy does, not because it's evil. And the Feywild will still probably kill you because everyone is so doped up on positive energy that they're insane in the membrane.

>>53715447
In your hypothetical scenario wouldn't I have already done something to earn the meeting with the noble or whatever that would cause him to be like ''chill out lol'' to his guards

>>53715473
If you do that, you must name your character Jack

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How can I turn pic related into a big ass mountain of a monster?

>>53715534
Buff up a gibbering mouther

>>53715366
Appearance is not a mechanical effect. Nice try though.

>>53715446
I hate that it's true, but it's true.

>>53715481
Warlocks DO get a few skill slots, to be fair, even if they don't get as many bonuses as rogues. And backgrounds can add even more.
Have fun warlocking in the future!

>>53715512
You'd think that. But in most settings, drow are so feared that the mere sight of one might cause the important person to be like "oh shit it was all a ruse to get close to me! D:"
Of course exceptions exist. But they often require 2.5 trilogies to justify, and people still view them suspiciously.

>>53715446
How can the most people be familiar with forgettable realms, when by definition, they forget about it?

>>53715578
>2.5 trilogies
is this a drizzt reference
I only know some shit through like secondary pop-culture

>>53715584
Forgotten Realms does not refer to the current realms everyone plays in, but the oodles of past civilizations which rose, flourished, and fell over the setting's ridiculously long and detailed history, the ruins (generally more than one) of which the current civilizations are built upon.

>>53715563
He was talking about the Radiant/Necrotic damage based on alignment, not the appearance of the guardians, pretty sure.

>>53715592
>is this a drizzt reference
Duh

>>53715608
Apparently I can't read. :/

>>53715605
Are you sure? I can't remember a single thing about the realms besides there's some mary sue dark elf wandering around in them.

>>53715646
Does your teacher give points for not paying attention? Why would we?

>>53715646
wut about baldur's gate
pretty good game/place if you ask me

>>53715646
>Wandering around
>Not living in a cave as a NEET with oneitis for a redhead he met as a child

>>53715697
Yeah, I played through it, but all I remember about it is the twist. You're a god or something

>>53715646
yeah and i've never played or read anything greyhawk, but i'm not on a crusade to tell everyone it's gay because i can't remember anything about it

>>53715646
Pretty sure you've heard of this guy named Volo. He wrote a book not long ago about monsters. Xanathar? He's got a book coming up, too.

Or the Storm King. Surely, you've heard of Tiamat. Better yet, Orcus. Vecna.

Nice try though. FR is the setting for 5e and it's literally everywhere in every book.

>>53715366
>>53715563
symbol or magic glyph or something can trigger off alignment, so there's at least one mechanical effect. also it means you can measure people's alignment in universe.

>>53715715
or something

>>53715726
T-thanks.

So all Monks can stunning strike, which is a Con save.

Open Hand Monks can flurry of blows to knock a monster prone, and is a Dex save.

This is interesting to me because 1. It means Monks have two effects based on two different stats and 2. both effects work regardless of size.

The thing is though what do you do if you knock a Gargantuan enemy prone? Can you grapple them then?

>>53715446
>>53715563
That's not true though. The Multiverse is 5E's setting. Mearls and the other faggot harp on about it all the time.

>>53715724
Volo is my favorite because of NWN2: MOTB.
FR actually does a good job of having players interact with famous NPCs in reasonable ways.

>>53715730
Honestly nobody is saying alignment doesn't matter in 5e. But if you compare it to 3e, it's not even close.

>>53715752
And if saying things over and over made them true, my neighbor, Mr. "I have a 174 IQ" Mensa, wouldn't spend five minutes trying to unlock his door because he keeps trying to put the key in upside-down.

>mechanical interactions with alignment don't exi-

Talisman of Ultimate Evil

Wondrous item, legendary (requires attunement by a creature of evil alignment)

This item symbolizes unrepentant evil. A creature that is neither good nor evil in alignment takes 6d6 necrotic damage upon touching the talisman. A good creature takes 8d6 necrotic damage upon touching the talisman. Either sort of creature takes the damage again each time it ends its turn holding or carrying the talisman.

If you are an evil cleric or paladin, you can use the talisman as a holy symbol, and you gain a +2 bonus to spell attack rolls while you wear or hold it.

The talisman has 6 charges. If you are wearing or holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 charge from the talisman and choose one creature you can see on the ground within 120 feet of you. If the target is of good alignment, a flaming fissure opens under it. The target must succeed on a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw or fall into the fissure and be destroyed, leaving no remains. The fissure then closes, leaving no trace of its existence. When you expend the last charge, the talisman dissolves into foul-smelling slime and is destroyed.

>>53715456
also can monsters in 5e have spell like abilities like 3.5 monsters? And does stuff a monster does as a bonus action, go under actions? Or under abilities?

>>53715779
>#NotAllMuslims

>>53715759
Whether or not you do anything with alignment has always been the DM and table's choice. In 5E, in 3E, previously, doesn't matter.

Choosing to not use it at your table because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the setting. 5E can play it down as much as it wants, remove it from class restrictions (which is a good move, and was rarely actually supported by the lore of alignments when it was done in 3E), and have fewer spell interactions with alignment. But it's still a thing.

>>53715531
I'll write all this on my little paper, and when the time comes, I'll see what to do. Thanks.

>>53715784
See >>53715759
Now let's move on please, because this is by far the dumbest fucking argument we've had here in a while.

>>53715801
Oh good, the next dumbest fucking argument is here right on time.

>>53715752
WotC has yet to put their money where their mouth is. They keep going on and on about the "multiverse", but what the fuck do we have so far?

Forgotten Realms. Oh look, a brief trip to Barovia aaaaand we're back to FR.

I'm not usually a cynic, but it's getting harder and harder to believe they'll put out books on any other setting. Now that we're getting Chult, I'm 100% confident they are just going to keep going to different places in FR instead of giving us different settings.

>>53715801
What?

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What do you guys think of my (soon-to-be-finished) map?
Does it look worth exploring?

>>53715785
I don't see why not. Put it all under actions, probably.

>>53715820
Do not engage low-effort bait
Make anon work for the (you)s

>>53715820
>And if saying things over and over made them true

>>53715833
add 21 islands

>>53715833
there's room for improvement let's put it like that

>>53715833
No map is worth exploring without context about what's actually in all those places. I don't care how baller those little icons are, unless there's magical swords waiting in them I'm not leaving my comfy town. And that's true for most adventurers.

That said, I like the style.

>>53715833
It sure looks like there's some history there, but it honestly looks like shit.
Use Inkarnate or something and come back to us.

>>53715851
>>53715849
This is just a region that's not the whole thing BTW

>>53715817
It was such a stupid play. Yeah, Ravenloft predates FR and could be placed anywhere, but it's always been part of FR's cosmology as well. I don't remember Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Mystara, or Eberron ever putting out planar charts saying, "And here's where Ravenloft / the Domains of Dread are if you like that sort of thing," like FR / Planescape does.

>>53715845
What?

>>53715884
If WotC released a Dragonlance adventure book, I will actually pay real money for it.
Possibly Dark Sun as well.
Everything else is so generic I probably won't even read it.

>>53715900
Original guy claimed repeating things over an over again didn't make them true, like Mearls claiming 5E would have more settings than FR, in reference to his neighbor, who claims to have a high intelligence, but is too stupid to open his door properly, which was then indicator-implicatored by the other anon to poke jest at the current trend of saying #NotAllMuslims on Twitter, which means that although nearly all terrorist attacks are caused by Muslims, if you repeat that it isn't, it's true.

Try to keep up, brainlet.

>>53715912
I hope you're not suggesting that Dragonlance is less generic than Mystara or Eberron.

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>>53715820
>>53715900

Anybody tried their hand at converting older adventures to 5e? I was considering giving "Against the cult of the reptile god" a shot.

>>53715950
That one's been converted already, google it. It can also be run as-is with very little issues.

>>53715932
Are you/he suggesting that all Muslims do commit terrorism? Because that seems to be more of a case of "If we say it over and over, it's true" than asserting that not all of them do.

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Anyone got stats for a bodak? I want to recreate the Bleak General from elder evils in 5e and I can't find anything for a base bodak. I'm guessing they were left out cause it was hard to port in death gaze in an edition without SoD effects.

How are healers and supporty types in 5e?

>>53715984
No you rock dweller he's referencing the popular shit lefties like to shill as an example of "repeating false shit makes it true" mentality

>>53715991
>those dick-suckin lips

>>53715984
>suggesting

>>53716002
HEALy

>>53715984
/pol/ isn't the brightest bunch

>>53716007
more like roastie lips

>>53716026
>muh /pol/ boogieman

>>53716002
Combat healing is a meme, just like in 3.5. Just pop a healing word with your bonus action. As for supporting, you will generally be concentrating on something on a buff or a debuff of some kind.

>>53716036
>muh boogiebrownman
On a scale of 1 to 14 how triggered are you by the new adventure going to Chult

>>53716036
>>muh /pol/ boogieman
Just because you say that every time /pol/ comes up doesn't make it an argument. It's not a boogieman if it demonstrably exists.

>>53716046
I'd rate the new adventure a measly 14/88 just because of the location alone.

Is Pelor = Zarus the only "conspiracy theory" in d&d?

>>53716002
In-combat healing sucks, you only ever have to use Healing Word to bring someone up from death saving throws, so it's just whack-a-moling to keep people going.
Now control spells are actually good.
5e is more or less the caster sets the field and/or twin Haste the martials if he can and the martials push everyone's shit in.

>>53716049
It doesn't demonstrably exist if all you do is attribute opinions you disagree with to a singular non-entity, and then go "AHA!" and bark at the shadows every time either.

>>53716101
Harpers are secretly controlled by shapeshifting snakepeople.

>>53716002
Healers are a mixed bag. Unless you have some other utility it's not a particularly good choice, since damage always outstrips healing by design. Life/Grave Domain Theurgist Wizard and Avatar Mystic with Psionic Restoration are two good support classes that can still perform well when not healing.

>>53716139
>>>/pol/
Checkmate.

>>53716101
There's also the whole "Drizzt fell into a coma at some point in Menzoberranzan and is dreaming the whole thing" which I just came up with.

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>>53716161
Speaking of that guy...

>>53716157
>can't even say /pol/ is a spook because all the Stirner pictures are already in use in the thread

>>53716157
Check this.

#NotAllDrow

>>53716101
Lathander is Amaunator.
Also, neither of them exist, they're just Kossuth.

>>53716139
I'm going to assume you're not being retarded on purpose and actually address your claim.
>singular non-entity
When we say "/pol/", we don't literally mean there's a person or group with a one-to-one association with the 4chan board. We use it to refer generally to people espousing the kind of bigoted bullshit that's accepted on /pol/ and in relatively few other places. It refers to a specific set of beliefs and attitudes that annoy everyone when they come up in non-related conversations. And I'm assuming it refers to you because otherwise you wouldn't be pretending not to understand this.

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>>53716182

>>53716217
Deal with it. We play DnD too.

>>53716217
>bigoted bullshit

Tell me more. You seem to be bigoted towards this so called /pol/.

How is your relationship with your mother?

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>>53716161
Not directly related, but does anyone else here really idslike those "______ is actually in a coma/dying of cancer and the entire plot is their fever dream" fan theories?

It can be applied to literally any story or narrative, and it doesn't expand the bounds of the story or the frame of reference like most fan theories do. It just basically takes an arbitrary point, possibly before the story has even started, and just goes "It don't matter, none of this matters," from there.

It's a copout that some fan out there voluntarily chooses to embrace, instead of one foisted upon the fans by an incompetent writer.

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>>53716217
>when "we" say
>"we" use it
>I'm assuming

/co/, get back in your containment board.

>>53716227
Dual wielding is actually viable for a beast conclave ranger

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>>53716235
I don't CARE that you play D&D. You are more than welcome to play D&D. Just leave your unrelated political bullshit somewhere else.

>>53716268
Here's a better question, does anyone actually like those theories?

Is Mearls married? Has his ravenous pursuit of social justice given him the love and affection such sacrifice deserves?

>>53716235
>Deal with it. We theorycraft overpowered builds and get into pointless arguments on the internet because it's the only way to talk about D&D with other people given our inability to find a game without being kicked out midway through the first session or to show up in the first place thanks to our crippling social anxiety, too.

>>53716268
>>53716285
The ending of Roseanne.

>>53716294
Yes, and he has a biological child with her to boot.

>>53716279
But WotC puts their political bullshit in the game all the time - in fact, they praise themselves for doing it!

>>53716296
No, actually, I'm playing a real, honest-to-God game. Everyone in the group is a social basket case, and it annoys me that none of us are white, but the game is still real.

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>>53716279
>/pol/ are furries
This makes more sense than I'd like to admit.

>>53716311
Just one? And he's got other children, or does his wife have sons?

>>53716331
>Everyone in the group is a social basket case, and it annoys me that none of us are white
Man, self-loathing is a hell of a drug.

>>53716046
>1 to 14
I see what you did there fellow race realist

>>53716347
Why don't you save one or both of us the trip to Wikipedia to check and just scream KEK KEK KEK like we know you want to.

>>53716296
I just talk about dnd and theorycraft because I'm always the motherfucking DM.

FOR EIGHT GODDAMN YEARS. I HAVEN'T PLAYED A SINGLE SESSION

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee

I live in an incredibly small town and none of my players want to dm. They are also the only other 4 people interested in dnd.

>>53716384
The Wikipedia page doesn't talk about his wife's sons?

>>53716328
They made the game. You chose to participate in it. If any political bullshit should be discussed, it's not yours.

>>53716369
Except anon literally posted that to make fun of a race realist
But thank you for demonstrating your reading comprehension level.

>>53716438
Does yours? Do you have a wife? A qtgf?

>>53716384
>Why don't you save one or both of us the trip to Wikipedia to check and just scream KEK KEK KEK like we know you want to.
FTFY, he's literally trying to say "Mearls is a beta provider SJWfag" on account of he's never had an actual human relationship before.

>>53716454
As the guy making fun of those other guys, I'm pretty sure that second one was a joke

>>53716454
>Added politics to their game
>You get angry when people mention the politics

???

>>53716481
What politics did they add?

>>53716490
Gender identity politics.

>>53716481
They added their views. They did not invite debate about them.

>>53716490
WotC is adding some characters that trigger the right side of the SJW/Stormfront Horseshoe.

>>53716490
Theres a guy guy in atleast one of the AL modules

If I can be perfectly honest, I hate each and every one of you.

>>53715401
I'm making a barbarian who is a former soldier who has fits of PTSD as his Rage.
Watched his best friend get ambushed, and he just snapped, and went on a spree slaughtering enemies. Doesn't recall much of it, but came back with six elf ears on a string

>>53716531
Some of us arent that bad anon, one samefag brought all this upon the threads

>>53716518
D&D has been full of androgynous and asexual elves and demons for decades breh.

>>53716561
Its more than just that

>>53716540
Meant to add it's like that scene in Silence of the Lambs where They talk about Lector killing a guy, and his heart rate never rises. Just totally dispassionate, cool and collected.

>>53716561
>androgynous and asexual
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

>>53716518
And most social conservatives said "hmm, I don't agree with this but I can remove it from the game with literally no mechanical impact.
And then there's people like you, who chose instead to go complain about it on an Indonesian shadow-puppet forum.

>>53716554
I don't believe this any more. I truly believe there is a wide spectrum of political beliefs here and that some people just can't help but talk about theirs instead of the game we're supposed to be discussing.

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Listen to me, people.

I wanna end up those retarded argument once and for all. So imma tell you a story.

I like to play gnolls, they're fun. But you know, in D&D, PF, and most other systems and settings, they're always very badly handled, written, always "locked" into some trash crazy savages that are evil.

And you know what?

It never mattered to me.

Because all I had to do to get around that is rewrite those settings. If I wanted to keep the core of their identity as a brutal race, I explained it the way I wanted, and it was not the WotC way.

And has anything bad happened because of it? No. The police still hasn't caught me for this great crime.

The great crime of using your imagination in a fictional game that only exists as much as YOU believe it does.

Are WotC and their shitty agenda retarded? Yes. Is getting political into their professional product retarded? Yes again.
Can we work around it? Actually, yes too.

The complaints are valid. But they're also a waste of time. Use that time to write out their idiocy instead.

This works for all arguments. The setting. The politics. The alignement. You don't HAVE to debate them.
Instead of talking about it here, you just take your group of 4 players, and you agree on something. With those players.

Like I do.

>>53716064
kek

>>53716064
>Not wanting to slaughter a bunch of niggers

This is the perfect opertunity to do that anon

>>53716615
Anon, if I said I was bringing you a bowl of red AND blue berries, would you assume I could only be referring to individual berries that are both red and blue at the same time and not a bowl where some berries are entirely red and some are entirely blue

>>53716647
Let's agree to disagree about whether their agenda is retarded and whether the complaints are valid. I still respect your willingness to ignore the bits that are easily ignorable and play the game instead of fixating on the least important bits of it.

>>53716616
Okay, can we talk about hermaphroditic Elves and how they're canonically the norm in the setting? I mean, a guy that wanted to date that long-eared beauty better be ready for her very feminine penis.

>>53716711
I dont think the samefag will agree

>>53716718
Or, and hear me out, we can NOT talk about it because it doesn't fucking matter to his fucking board in any way, shape, or form.

>>53716727
If he exists, he can choke on a lady-elf's dick.

God this was probably the best session in my life
>When your Monk friend dive bomb a Hellknight you just pushed down 300ft.
>When you do the exact same but fuel it with 4 level smite
That was 20d6+10d10+10d10+6d8 in about round and a half
Playing at lvl 18 is awesome

>>53716647
>furposter calling anyone else's agenda retarded
Click on whichever one of these degenerate containment boards you think is most accepting of filth like you and stay there
>>>/d/
>>>/trash/
>>>/pol/
>>>/mlp/
>>>/jp/
>>>/tv/
>>>/soc/
>>>/m/

>>53716747
May your games span the range of levels and your fights be ever-varied, anon.

>>53716750
>Implying any board accepts gnolls since their 4e makeover

>>53716745
HE absolutely exists, all the responses are just too fast to be real racists

>>53716784
What kind of people even like gnolls? They have and always will be filthy hyena-rapist cannibal savages.

Like, what's the appeal? Even as furries, there are better races out there to obsess over.

>>53716647
>le good boy gnolls

>>53716711
Opinions are like assholes: everyone's got one, and they smell.

>>53716718
In what setting. Their setting? Your setting? My setting? Remove them if you don't want them. You can do that.

>>53716750
>all that repressed anger just blowing up right here
What's wrong, Anon?

>>53716814
Hehe. Yeah, if you say so.

>>53716814
People that sided with the hyenas in the Lion King?

>>53716830
>tripfagging
Okay now you can get >>>/out/
We are not /pfg/

>>53716814
If I were a furry I'd rather fuck a tabaxi than a gnoll

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>>53716750
>Degenerate containment boards
>/m/
Confirmed shit taste

>>53716814
They're also demons and responsible for the kenku's curse.
Do they have any redeeming features whatsoever?

>>53716809
>too fast for real racists
You got me there

>>53716814
The literal only time I've used gnolls in an adventure they raided a caravan, murdered everyone, and left one survivor after raping her.
To be honest it was a bit too gritty for both me and my group and I've never revisited them again. If I need mindless slaughter I just go for wood elves.

>>53716826
>implying I play them as goodboys
>implying they're not still huge assholes unless you proved you're not an arrogant pally and you respect their take on life
>implying none of my characters were raised to believe that if you can take it then it should be yours

Well, again, I make my own gnolls, don't I?

>>53716858
They want to fuck robots, Anon. That ain't natural. Adam and Eve, OK, not Adam and 010001010111011001100101.
And related to the subject of furry boards, this exists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wGy_DVhwFU

>>53716839
>People that sided with the hyenas in the Lion King?
And here I though child molesters were the worst people on Earth

>>53716830
Yeah, don't. We know who you are even without the trip. If your words don't indicate your identity, your identity isn't relevant.

>>53716859
>responsible for kenku's curse

Where did you find this anon

>>53716842
This is how I end arguments.

>>53716883
One would have thought 5e boys would be less quick to yell furfag at a gnoll player than their pfg counterpart, haha.

>>53716873
Good boy compared to how that are potrayed

>>53716851
>Implying you have to be a furry to fuck catgirls

>>53716873
Your characters sound like That Guy PCs to be honest.

>>53716907
Tripfags cause the worst arguments. Leave yourself anonymous, leave all of your past arguments behind. Post in the next thread.

Well, at least I had a nice chat about Warlocks with y'all. Seems like this thread is going downhill.

>>53716217
>we
Wtf? I like /pol/ now

>>53716883
>They want to fuck robots
Uh, no? That would be covered by /d/. If mecha, a board devoted to robots, typically Japan-animated robots, is considered "degenerate", then you should probably include /a/ in your list as well, because anime as a whole contains some pretty "degenerate" stuff. Hell, you should probably throw /gif/ and /b/ into the list as well, plus /x/.

I'm having a hard time deciding between a paladin and an EK, assuming I'm using PAM or GWM (or both) which one would be the better damage dealer? Which one has better utility?

>>53716933
>implying there can't be 2 boards for a thing

>>53716918
Im new to all this 4chins stuff, what is a tripfag?

>>53716943
>An actual porn bard that welcomes all weird things is the same as a worksafe board devoted to mecha

>>53716931
Come back in an hour when there's a new thread. Although I'm perfectly willing to talk warlocks if you have any questions or insights about them.

>>53716951
Someone who uses a name to distinguish themselves instead of appearing as "Anonymous," which is many boards is considered inappropriate attention-whoring.

>>53716941
Better damage is paladin. Could go either way on utility, but that's still weighing towards paladin. EK does get other stuff from fighter that's good, though.

>>53716941
Paladins will have higher damage early on. At later levels, EKs do more consistent sustained damage but paladins have better burst.
Conversely, EKs get more slots to use on Shield as they level up, so they end up the tankier class. Also, they don't have to use charisma, so if they don't attack with spells they can have good CON.

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>>53716933
I'm from /m/ and we want to fuck robots.
Go make a thread there right now and ask us to post pictures of the sexiest robots we'd like to fuck.

>>53716974
>implying they just don't post the porn there

What diseases are more likely or more fitting to kill a character in an expedition sent to the cold steppes and permafrost? What if such character is the father or mother of a Tiefling PC?

>>53716977
Tripfagging is only acceptable when you need to be recognized, like if you (were) running a quest or maybe if you're an artfag. Randomly putting one on after trying to make an autistic argument and trying to kum-bah-yah everyone together isn't a good reason.

>>53716918
Honestly just forgot to remove the trip after the first post.

>>53716913
Well... I like it when -morals- are more a matter of individuals, and -ethics- are a matter of race.

For gnolls, what's good and bad isn't the same thing as for a human.
For THAT gnoll, he doesn't give a shit whether what he does is good or bad, he doesn't wanna question it because he's selfish. For that OTHER one, he's willing to conflict with his own mind over it, because he cares, because he's good. Sorta. Within limits.

>>53716915
You just need to tone it correctly.

It's what being a Neutral's all about. Good characters want asspats, Evil characters are morons, and Neutral means you can help someone out if you wanna, and rob a bank on the side, no strings attached. That's how my Neutrals see it.

Also consider intention. Yeah I kicked a baby, but it was already dead! Not hurting anyone, technically! Hey, stop trying to smite me.

>>53716977
Hey! More gnollbros!

>>53716915
>Implying I wouldn't fuck a catgirl if I had the chance

>>53717024
>Unguligrade gundam
There's something you don't see every day

>>53717047
Absolutely agreed. The only trip I ever approved of was Hero of the Woods.

>>53717077
Wtf you're stealing my trip now

Not fair

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>>53717024
I refuse, on the basis that I'm from /m/ too

>>53717032
Go visit for yourself.

>>53717061
>Neutral means you can help someone out if you wanna, and rob a bank on the side, no strings attached
That's actually what evil is, mate. There's nothing neutral about theft. You're hurting people for personal gain.
And no, being chaotic does not make it okay either.

>>53717083
Huh? I'm the real gnollbro, you're stealing MY trip!

>>53717086
I really only stick to /tg/ and /p/

>>53717101
>You're hurting people for personal gain.
Depends. The people will be refunded by insurance. You're only really stealing from the bank itself; but, it doesn't mean you are, at the very CORE, actually evil. What would you even do with this money? ...What, you're giving a part of it to your childhood orphanage?

See, it's a matter of balance.

>>53717136
Where does the insurance money come from? Whoever is providing it has to raise rates. Whoever enrolls in it will have to pass the costs to their customers.
Helping an orphanage you have emotional ties to does not make the theft less evil. Sure, people are complex, but once you start doing evil things, you don't get to make excuses like "but I don't ALWAYS do these things!"

>>53717101
>That's actually what evil is, mate. There's nothing neutral about theft. You're hurting people for personal gain.

the thief class in previous editions was never prohibited from being good, let alone neutral

>>53716941
Using this as base: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d-9xDdath8kX_v7Rpts9JFIJwIG3X0-dDUtfax14NT0/edit#gid=2025852255 (pay attention to RAW, ignore houserules side)
It seems Venge Paladin is better at 4-5, then Fighter takes over when it gets another ASI.

So... any further info in what is coming out in the Xanathar book?

>>53717160
Well, then let's use another example, or let us just say, that I consider Neutral anyone that pursues a cause whose repercussions are ambiguous to the world around; the primary objective being the object of said quest.

I have a character who's a lowlife in a gang, and all he cares about right now is trying to find traces of the girl he liked that disappeared some years ago. He doesn't care about stealing shit in someone's house if he happens to stop buy, and will use those funds to help with his quest, but he wasn't actually born a criminal, and never does unecessary or gratuituous violence. He tends to spare efforts to help out people sometimes, and if aforementionned house belonged to a poor lady with cancer, he'd either not take anything or feel very douchey for having to do it.

He just got a pet and he pays for his food even if it's one that eats a lot and it's expensive, really just because he likes the little thing, even though that's a direct hindrance to his plans.

What separates Evil and the rest, is the lack or near-lack of a conscience.

He doesn't want to neither reform society or break it, therefore, he's just Neutral.

>>53717212
The thief class was also not restricted to theft. It was the name for someone with certain skills, regardless of what he did with them. Once you start using those skills to benefit yourself and the causes you care about at the expense of hurting others, you're evil.
Also note that thieves WERE forbidden from being Lawful Good.

>>53717261
So you say, that if you don't actively act Good in all you're doing, then you're Evil? How can you even be Neutral?

so if you can't grapple a monster while they're prone what do you do with them?

>>53717261
Actually, there's no printed implication pre-2e of thieves not being, well... thieves.

>Once you start using those skills to benefit yourself and the causes you care about at the expense of hurting others, you're evil.

Maybe as of 3e-ish, but definitely not in AD&D and earlier.

Bandits were neutral in all TSR editions.

>>53717302
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoQ5goVpjyM

>>53717302
Kick them out for shitting the carpet

>>53717046
A disease that causes one to have a high fever, and lose connection between the outside temperature and what they feel, causing them to sweat heavily even in a blizzard, freezing them faster.

>>53717255
I read the whole thing, but the moment you said "member in a gang" I already saw red flags.
Not having a problem stealing from random people to further his own goals? Evil.
"Unnecessary" and "gratuitous" doesn't matter. Evil can have a purpose. In fact, it probably should, because otherwise the character isn't realistic.
"Feeling very douchey" also doesn't excuse you from possibly condemning someone to horrible death because they can't make chemo payments.
Having friends/pets is not inherently good, neutral, OR evil. It's just something people do. Taking good care of them is also consistent with evil. Evil can love.
Reforming/breaking society is more about law and chaos. Frankly, the described character is evil.
NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I'm playing an evil character right now (literally, I'm posting as we're preparing to play). "Evil" doesn't mean "psychotic" or "antisocial." It really just means "selfish."
I'll grant you that your character doesn't THINK he's evil. But that doesn't change the fact that he IS.

>>53717285
>How to be neutral
Being good is about going our of your way to help others (altruism). Being evil is about not caring if you're hurting others (selfishness). Being neutral is avoiding hurting others but feeling no compulsion to help them if they're not your friends/family.
"Neutral" applies to most real people (the PHB even says this).

>>53717326
...You mean a flu?

>>53717302
Knock their teeth in. Prone gives melee advantage. Go nuts.

>>53717344
Or you could just have them die of dysentery.

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>>53717306
>Bandits were neutral in all TSR editions.
Response #1:
Bandits are often in dire circumstances and must literally steal to survive. How they handle this situation determines their alignment.
Response #2:
lol no, you're actually wrong.

>>53716979
>>53717016
So between the two which one would you gents suggest for someone new to gishes?

>>53717397
Depends how you want to play the gish. If you want to mostly cast defensive spells and damage people with weapons, pick EK. If you want to cast a few more buffs and have magic-fueled attacks, go paladin.

>>53717397
There isn't really a "gish" in 5e.

Ideally, you'd cast a spell and attack at the same time. Possibly have your attack boosted by casting a spell (not just spending a slot, like the Paladin).

That being said, a Paladin plays a lot more like what a gish should be instead of the EK. Being a 1/3 caster is not good enough.

You can also talk to your DM and see if he's okay with you swapping out the Paladin spell list for the Sorcerer or Wizard. AFAIK, it says right in the PHB that doing so won't change classes too much.

I could be misremembering that last part.

>>53717340
Good and Evil imply dedication. My character just wants to get by. He HAS to. He's selfless... To a degree. He's selfish... To a degree. He's in a gang because reasons, and they're not all "because I hate honest work".

In fact given how he's supposed to be a gangster, he's so far acted quite Good; has only taken the easy path when it wasn't too vicious, and has yet to kill someone. For example he caught a prisoner from a gang that attacked his group (with deadly force), and he's just gonna beat him up for a bit of stress relief once he's done questionning him, but sees no reason to kill him, because that'd be unecessary.

>Being good is about going our of your way to help others (altruism). Being evil is about not caring if you're hurting others (selfishness).
That's just casting empaths as good and psychopath as bad, instead of seeing them as people with different mindsets and personalities and brain structures. That's a judgement from an empath's point of view, actually.

>Being neutral is avoiding hurting others but feeling no compulsion to help them if they're not your friends/family.
Well... What do you think my character does, haha. However purposedly avoid hurting others is overruled when it's your job to do so.

>>53717380
Ah, 2e changed it, how interesting. They also completely frikkin butchered the entry.

>Bandits are often in dire circumstances and must literally steal to survive.

No proof.

Neutral used to be fairly fucked up (sacrifice happy druids for example). Criminals who steal and don't kill vs ones who do is a pretty decent distinction.

Either way, the sole basis we have to say that a thief who takes property but not lives is evil is your opinion, and there are plenty of counterexamples.

>>53717306
>>53717380
BTW, I could have been nicer about this, and I apologize.
But the fact is, banditry was always evil. Let me dig up the PHB and see what I can find in it.

>>53717436
Evil doesn't imply dedication. It implies a willingness to hurt or degrade innocents (or what the fuck ever). But "dedication" isn't one of them.

>>53717397
Paladin needs a lot less system mastery, but EK is also more or less a Fighter+.
I also have a soft spot for paladins and hate seeing them be butchered constantly

>>53717436
>That's a judgement from an empath's point of view, actually.
Empathy is intrinsically tied up with morality.

Also, see >>53717452.

>purposedly avoid hurting others is overruled when it's your job to do so.
Awesome. Good characterization. But it's evil.

>>53717442
Robin Hood was a bandit, and at least in common culture, he was considered good.

Of course, as we all know, the robbing from the rich to steal from the poor was disproved as good by Ayn Rand, who much preferred her character, Ragnar Danneskjold, who robbed from the poor to give to the wealthy (what had been taken from them by the poor, through income tax)

>>53715991
They're in Volo's.

>>53717442
>banditry was always evil.

Banditry was evil in 2e, fair enough. That's not "always" though. The degree to which they butchered the entry doesn't really demonstrate this is a conscious choice, although 1e and 2e alignments are heftily different.

>>53717441
>Either way, the sole basis we have to say that a thief who takes property but not lives is evil is your opinion, and there are plenty of counterexamples.
I simply disagree with this. Taking property is evil. It leads to discomfort, and possible hunger and pain, and sometimes even death.
It's not AS evil as outright murder, but it is still evil.

>>53717261
>The thief class was also not restricted to theft. It was the name for someone with certain skills, regardless of what he did with them.

there's really no indication of that. it's the same reason assassins were required to be evil - because they were assassins, not just people with assassin-flavored skills. that whole way of treating classes would come later, early editions generally treat your class pretty literally.

>Also note that thieves WERE forbidden from being Lawful Good.

no one said stealing was lawful, just that it wasn't necessarily evil.

>>53715991
To balance the fact you can't just roll out with Death Ward 24/7, 5e SoD should generally reduce people to 0 hp and usually require some sort of setup.

>>53717463
Robin Hood wasn't a typical bandit, even if the accounts are accurate. He specifically targeted certain people. He was more like a specialized guerilla fighter than a bandit.

>>53717481
>Butchered the entry
Can you explain what you mean by this?

>>53717485
I'm talking alignment-wise, nothing at all implies a CN person can't rob or steal. Follow their whims vs follow their whims only if its nice. Additionally neutrals can do anything it takes to survive, including cannibalism.

>>53717452
You have to define "innocence".

Judging someone based on what he doesn't know is like judging a wolf for eating meat. Animals do animal stuff that's not very nice and they're "Neutral". Well you can't judge someone for sincerely believing he's doing good. You can judge him if he knows he's doing wrong but that's why he's doing it in the first place.

Gansterguy is in a complicated situation, where "do-good" pallies would always get btfo. Nobody's innocent, but by comparision, HE is an idealist, because he wants to believe he can rescue his damsel, and refuses to take no for an answer. But the world out there? It's a jungle. Especially given the system, if he makes just ONE mistake, he's getting scraped off the pavement.

In those situations, Good and Evil are luxuries. Luxuries for arrogant pallies and crazy psychos.

>>53717460
And so if someone has no physical ability to produce empathy, that makes him evil? Sounds more like you're beating someone for their disability.

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A friend of mine wants to start DMing on a nordic inspired mythical game, where gods are real and mortal. A friend is going to play as a Trickster Cleric, serving the Loki-like god. I'm planning of playing a clueless outsider. Should I play as a legitimately good Paladin spreading the good word of an outside Christ-like god? Or should I be a pacifist, "I wan to trable" travelling eastern monk in a land of strife and violence? Or perhaps anyone has another idea?

>>53717505
>Can you explain what you mean by this?

MM1 entry is about 8 paragraphs + a table, plus a paragraph + a table for brigand.

MM2 entry is fucking nothing.

Totally butchered. Its quite possible that bandits are CE by 2e standard, but its also quite possible it was just a symptom of not giving a fuck.

>>53717491
>there's really no indication of that
I'll quote the PHB, from "establishing a stronghold" section:
>Not all thieves have larceny in their hearts, however. If a character devoted his life to those aspects of thieving that focus on scouting, stealth, and the intricacies of locks and traps, he could build an entirely different sort of stronghold.
It's implied many times, and here actually stated, that not all members of the thief class are criminals.

>>53717523
>You have to define "innocence".

I don't. It was used as an example of how evil is defined (in 3e, because 5e doesn't define much at all). The point is that in no edition is "dedication" a requisite of evil, even though there are unquestionably evil beings who are evil due to dedication to a dark master (ayo Swords & Sorcery genre).

>>53717536
Play a gn

Play a lost chink. A chink lost waaaaaaaay off course.

"This not India... Elo? Yes? Whele to India, pls?"

>>53717550
Ok good.

>>53717536
I dunno, anon, it's your friend. How open would he be to you bringing this alien mythology into his game? I wouldn't be too supportive of the idea with plot hooks and stuff, because most of my prep would not deal with that.

Both of your ideas can generate good roleplay, but it all comes down to how your DM approaches it. I would need a lot of notice to incorporate those ideas into a game, mostly the Paladin. The monk might be alright, as the "i dun wan no trouble" troupe basically writes itself.

Have you considered something like a Hel-like Warlock? Seems you want to play opposite the party, that would allow you do that. Or just roll with it and play a Tempest Cleric and keep the other Cleric in line with good guy Thor.

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>>53717523
>And so if someone has no physical ability to produce empathy, that makes him evil? Sounds more like you're beating someone for their disability.
Honestly? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. A person with Antisocial Personality Disorder is probably evil, unless they consciously work on functioning better in society than their biology primed them to.
But you're also taking it too seriously and showing how alignment doesn't measure up to the complexity of real-world behavior.

>>53717549
I was being selective with my photographic evidence, but yeah, it's only 1 paragraph.

>>53717536
If you wanted to play a wizard/druid/sorc/warlock you could play it off like you heard of an ancient relic there by a ship captain, he offered to take you, and once you are there he robbed you of most all you had and laughed as he sailed off with your possessions.

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>>53717536
Ha I remember that guy coming here for advice on stats and shit, we called him a retard.

>>53717550
>>53717585
Although to be fair, I've only got the Monstrous Manual; it's possible that the human entry is condensed from longer, more detailed Monstrous Compendium entries.

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>>53715264
Book of Vile Darkness

>>53717627
Meant to quote >>53717549

>>53715274
rakshasa

>>53717585
Well, you're sort of saying, people being imperfect makes them Evil instead of Neutral.

Good: Perfect people.
Neutral: Good-like people.
Evil: Flawed people.

And good luck with that I mean, sounds REALLY hard to be Good without being dumb and dying an early death. You can't just judge the act alone.

Flawed people should be in the middle, actually sick, obsessed or full-circle delusional people should be Evil, and woke good-doers should be Good.

Why I bring dedication into this is that, someone actively good, is also actively trying to be, so it's a pervasive intent in their personality and decision-making. Neutrals just do whatever and may pawn an unattended item here or there but they're not gonna do it if it really hurts people. Evil is always self-justified. Always reasons, always excuses. Always right.

I'm gonna have my party start on a boat that's jumped by pirates (with them swinging over to fight the PCs for a few rounds) before sinking it after they "win".

How can I effectively simulate the ship being hit with canon fire (perhaps have them rolling acrobatics to avoid being knocked prone?) and how can I discourage them Read: 1 that guy from trying to swing on to the pirate ship with like 50 pirates on it.

>>53717580
I do not want to be a barrier opposing my fellow players. The three of them are going for the Thor/Odin/Loki archetypes. I would rather be a 3rd party observer who is entirely alien. My DM is actually delighted since I would be helping her form the outside world.
Like >>53717566 said, I'm planning to have my monk got lost in his "journey to the West" and go waaay off course.

>>53714804
Paladin, find them boring compared to Clerics and Fighters if I want a chivalrous warrior.

Also being locked into an oath seems dull, I also hate Warlocks for their pacts.

>>53717669
You have a very unrealistic view of "imperfect." "Imperfect" is "cheating on your wife," not "robbing old ladies with cancer sometimes."

>sounds really hard to be good
Yeah. That's the point. It's why most people are neutral.

>>53717585
So... Good is catering to other people?

>>53717671
Tell him there's 50 pirates on the ship

>>53717680
"I AM THOR, LORD OF THUNDER AND -"
"Yes pls hero, what is road to India, pls?"
"..."
"This not Nippon."

>>53717708
>So... Good is catering to other people?
If by that you mean "functioning in a society without hurting others," then yes.

>>53717700
Hey, doesn't mean he won't give her back her money once he's done. He ain't like that.

>Yeah. That's the point. It's why most people are neutral.
I mean, to be Good according to you, you need to be in a position of power. It's a luxury. Oh yeah, easy to share your meal when you aren't starving to death already. You stand up to the bullies because... You're big and tough. If you're not and you do it anyway and they kill you, you're good-stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkNV-0O1ya8

>>53717700
>It's why most people are neutral.
That's just a 3e thing.

>>53714804
>What's the one class you will never play and why?

Ranger. If I want to use a bow I'll be a Fighter or a Rogue. If I want to cast nature spells I'll be a druid.

>>53717744
And so, that society is the one who dictates you your moral code?

Well, if society says, the Good thing to do is to beat up the gay outta your kid, do you do it?

See, you can't be "good" to everyone at once. It's a delusion. "Good" just means "you think like me".

>>53717708
>>53717744
That's actually still neutral. "Good" is "going out of your way to make sure others do not suffer or are made better off."

>>53717762
Nope, still in 5e.

>What's the one class you will never play and why?

Monk. Nothing strikes me as fun about imagining what it'd be like to lead a life of denial and ignore perfectly good weapons and spells.

>>53717772
No, because goodness is based on helping/harming others, which is independent of social rules and theoretically measurable.

>>53717766
What if you want both?

Where do I go to get the down low on Mystara?

>>53717793
>Not fluffing it as anything else

>>53717813
Well, try to not harm the burglar for a start... He has an INT score too you know.

Is paladin 19/fighter 1 for a second fighting style a bad idea? I was thinking of taking gwf and dueling

>>53717550
that's from 2e. i can't find any indication that 1e thieves were anything except literal thieves. that provision in 2e is not present in the equivalent section of 1e, which only states that your stronghold can attract a gang of thieves who will upset the local thieves guild and are therefore presumably literal thieves and not some kind of figurative thief. and the book specifically states thieves can be any flavour of neutral including neutral good.

again, i can't see why they would restrict the assassin class to being evil-only but not the thief class following your logic.

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>ITT collectivism vs. individualism

>>53717793
>what are shaolins
>what is inner peace and fulfillment

>>53717766
Honestly this.
>I've got a pet forcibly stapled to my ass
FFS can't you just be a woodsguy? JUST a woodsguy?

>>53717892
That's dumb. Just start variant human and take the feat that allows you to choose an extra bullshit.

>>53717906
>gnolls and their metaphysic discussions
Fucking hell those critters

Why are all plots not concerned with a big evil Lich oriented around racism/speciesism?

How's this stat array for an eldritch knight? I don't play on picking up any spells that require a DC or are based off my Int modifier.

STR 13, DEX 15, CON 14, INT 11, WIS 11, CHA 8.

This is before mods from race and feats.
Planning on going Vhuman and taking Resilient (Wis).

>>53717893
I sort of agree kind of. Killing people is pretty evil, but there are characters that only kill truly evil warlords and shit, and they'd be not evil probably.

>>53717892
If you're going all 20 levels, the only class that's really worth dipping a level for is wizard, since signature spells is rather weak for a capstone.

>>53718000
Sounds good. Play a Gnome to get advantage against spell saves and you should be fine.

>>53717927
Better than some of threads we've had recently

>>53717302
But you can prone a monster while you grapple them

>>53718035
Very nice, and heh, dunno if I really want to play as a gnome.

Is Fear a good spell? Worth it over Fireball for an Enchanter?

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>>53718075
But you can't grapple a gargantuan monster. You can prone a gargantuan monster with Open Hand Flurry of Blows.

>>53718098
Gnobody ever does.

>>53717813
The ranger offers extremely little to me that's unique besides having an animal companion. But as a druid I can BE the animal companion, conjure MULTIPLE (temporary) animal companions, or even get one (that talks!) like a ranger if I'm patient and willing to invest in the awaken spell.

Otherwise the ranger, for me, is just an awkward mix of fighter and druid that doesn't excel at either role and only seems worth playing if you're in love with the roleplay of "the ranger" with a constant pet.

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Daily reminder to you retards that good and evil in D&D are not subjective points of view but actual objective forces of the universe.

If you cast awaken on an animal companion does it have the choice to leave it's ranger

>>53718161
Ah, I didn't see the conversation, just the one individual comment. Was kinda skimming through the thread.
Knocking an enemy prone then grappling them is my favourite. Easily viable with extra attacks, and it disables them so well

>>53716883
ok being fair, that track sounds amazing

>>53718190
>Your companion shares your alignment, and has a personality trait and a flaw that you can roll for or select from the tables below. Your companion shares your ideal, and its bond is always, “The ranger who travels with me is a beloved companion for whom I would gladly give my life.”
While it gains intelligence and will be charmed for the next 30 days, its personality and ideals aren't altered, and provided you haven't been an ass to it, there's no reason it would change those ideals once the charm wears off.

>>53718166
My DM let me just start my level 1 druid with a chipmunk companion that lives in my hair. I had speak with small beasts as a racial feature so it made sense.

>>53718247
That's fucking adorable.

>>53718161
Did someone said gno...

Oh.

Not those.

>>53718060
I tell ya, gnollposting makes people civil.

>>53718266
Yeah. Until she died ;_; RIP Clover

>>53718270
>>53718060
Get outta here Yeenoghu.