/cofdg/+/wodg/ - Chronicles and World of Darkness General Thread

So, which edition of WoD is the best?

How about CofD?

>>49924466
WoD 20th anniversary is best oWoD. CofD (2e) best WoD.

>>49922811
Your brother could possibly create some sick burning stakes shooting gun with Wonderful Machine. For extra ooomph combine with Crucible.
If you want to give a twist to non-violent approach first, you could pretend to be vampires yourself using Death arcana. Death can be also used instead of Life for some spells which wouldn't work on vamps because of their alternatively-alive status.

>>49924314
I would be interested in knowing whether anyone has a hack for making Investigation rules work with non-mundane methods.

>>49924676
How do Investigation rules not work for non-mundane methods as is?

>>49924314
Does anyone have any suggestions for occult noir books? (other than Lovecraft and the Dresden Files)

>>49924892

Lovecraft is nowhere near noir.

>>49924892

Maybe not full traditional Noir, but have you tried reading any of the works of Tim Powers?

>>49924892
>>49924975

Seconding Tim Powers. He basically inspired Unknown Armies with his novels, all about mixing history and the occult.

Declare is awesome if you like Cold War espionage, while I'm working on Last Call at the moment which is all about the spooky side of Vegas and poker.

>>49924314
>How many of you have gone full noir? Maybe just half noir?

In other words, who uses The Desden Files for inspiration for their Mage or other games?

If you do, you're probably pysched for the upcoming Crossover Chronicles. It's too bad it probably will not be released for at least 4+ years.

>>49924892
>Greywalker series
A detective dies and suddenly becomes connected to the world of the dead and magic. The Grey is a really good description of Twilight and sometimes Shadow.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ncsylh
>Walker Papers series
A cop mechanic dies and realizes that due to her mixed Irish/Cherokee heritage she's a double-shaman.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dfkmx6
I can also link some Mercy Thompson comics.

>>49925068
Not just Dresden, and not just Mage games.

>>49925068

I mean, there's already a Dresden Files game out there, and it's not half bad.

>>49924876
>How do Investigation rules not work for non-mundane methods as is?

I believe DaveB indicated that Signs of Sorcery will have the relevant Mage 2e rules.

Anyone have the newly released PDF of the Apocalypse LARP rules? Help a fellow LARP loser out.

>>49925075
>Not just Dresden, and not just Mage games.

True, but Dresden is likely the most well known and popular of the modern supernatural noir fiction.

If you like noir-esque Vampire, check-out the early/mid 2000's televisions series Blood Ties and Moonlight, or even Forever Knight from the mid-1990's.

>>49925158
>>49925160
>Forever Knight

I thought I was the only person who ever recalled that show.

>>49925158
The only thing we have so far is the Gamma Slice; the main book is only out for backers. The MES is going insane over it though, like my Facebook feed is full of nothing but what people are doing and shit for the chronicle.

>>49925179

Like me, all the Anon's who remember the classic WOD games when they were actually released in the 1990's, also definitely remember Forever Knight.

So I wanna do a cross template story with as many of the different cannon splats as possible. I also wanna do it assuming everyone is already at late game levels of power. What kind of story could I get away with?

>>49925300
>tfw most of the WoD books released while you were a small child

>>49925307

Every part of that is a horrendous idea. Good luck.

>>49925300
That makes me feel old, yo. :/

>>49924541

The difference is I can get most of the old core books for less than $20, but the 20th editions are full price (and in another country, so extra shipping). I'm probably going to pick up Vampire 20th, and make a point of Demon 20th if it is released, but the others? I'll stick to the old versions. I doubt the 20ths magically fix all the gripes people have with oWoD.

>>49925312
You're still a small child.

>>49925432

Wraith20 looks solid!

>>49925466

It's not like I'm underage.

A question there seems like the 20th anyversary rulebooks are not included in the megas does someone has a link to download them?

>>49925627
Learn. To. Google.

"blah 20th anniversary" pdf share

DONE

>>49925330
>That makes me feel old, yo. :/

Don't think of yourself as older, consider yourself wiser and more distinguished and experienced.

You (and I) can actually compare and appreciate the classic and new wod/cofd in a first-person proper cultural context.

Now, if these rpg infants,some who even who think the X20 anniversary games are "new" or "edgy," would just get the hell off our lawn...

>>49926074
Nah, we don't need them to get off the lawn. We just need them to take the games for what they are and play, and have fun, and overlook some of the weirdness, and stop with the social criteria and commentary screaming.

It's a game, just go play it.

Can an ephem.entity use Numina while in Twiight against things not in Twilight?

Is implant mission is too powerful for a familiar?

>>49925330
>>49925300
>>49926074
>>49926116

All this 90's talk has made me nostalgic for trench coats, katanas and mirrorshades.

I guess I'll just have to watch some Highlander reruns...

Hey, what's Adrian Paul up to nowadays?

>>49926139
>Can an ephem.entity use Numina while in Twiight against things not in Twilight?

It depends on the specific numina. Many will require a second numina to target things not in twilight.

>>49926182
>It depends on the specific numina. Many will require a second numina to target things not in twilight.
I see that
Aggressive Mme says they have to be in a condition that allows speaking
bu do Emotional aura and Rapture and Fate sense?

>>49926158
No clue. Is it bad that Highlander is one of the few 90's shows in the WoD vein that I never really got into?

>>49926350

It's not bad per se, just surprising. Most rpg-types loved Highlighlander, both tv show and *original* movie.

If you're bored one day, download or stream some early episodes.

>>49926427
Maybe. I'm rewatching the original Dark Shadows right now (we're now onto the beginning of the Chris Jennings werewolf arc, this is going to take forever).

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>>49924314
Don't just copy-paste the last thread, you lazy butthole.

>>49924279
It has a single corps mechanic. Dice Pool v. Difficulty. Go and read the rules on successes. One success is still a success. The number rolled is a guideline for how well you did.

>Muh botches with larger dice pools.
While ones still cancel successes, you cannot botch a roll that you have scored at least one success in. So there is no mechanical downside to having a larger dice pool. The curve is merely smoothed some more.

And it's been that way for eighteen years. What's your excuse?

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>>49924892
I'd throw some of King's work (Desperation, The Regulators) and maybe even some Barker into the ring as well.
>>49925312
Same here, I got the Revised V:TM and Wraith when I was like, 12.
>>49925474
The exciting thing to me about Wraith 20 is we're going to get to see some write-ups for the Guilds that didn't make the cut when the 6th Maelstrom hit, I especially want to see Monitors and Solicitors in a little bit more detail.

>>49926704
Please, explain to me how oWoD has better mechanics than CofD.
Tell me.
Lay it out for me, as if I were just too stupid to comprehend.

>>49926716

Best part of Wraith 20 is gonna be the Orpheus appendix.

>>49926743
Actually, if you're that guy from the last thread, you need to read the source material before we do that.

Because, if you are that guy, you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>49926806
I said "please, explain to me how oWoD has better mechanics than CofD".
I eagerly await your explanation.

>>49926882
And I returned that you need to read the source material first. You made several basic, factual errors.

>>49926116
Best not go fucking with spirits, anon anonson.

https://youtu.be/BpaRouocBes

>>49926924
You're supposed to be here educating me on how it's better. Tell me.

>>49926116
Or maybe you should just accept that these games are socially conscious and designed for a different type of fun compared to what you seem to want.

>>49926924
Penalty Assuming ID of Anon
Penalty Avoiding the Question

10 yards fourth down

>>49926987

He is? Well, allow me as an impartial voice to step in and agree... that you should get fucked unless you are going to read the material and stop being a demanding little shit before anyone does anything for you.

>>49927034
Anon made a blatant statement, and then did not provide supporting arguments. Therefore Anon's statement can not be verified and therefore did not continue the discussion

do you people play any other type of campaign besides "crossover monster-mash" and "magical realm typefucking"? because that's all i ever see in these threads

>>49927072
There is not enough interest in one splat to have a complete game for very long. Therefore cross sht is a tactic to get more players into the same game. As for Magical realm well Gm has to get off somehow. he aint do it for free

>>49926116

I can't say I really care for "do not think about it" as a philosophy in general.

>>49927072

Personally, even if it doesn't fit well, I like to blend them all together, and assume where there are theological/metastory conflicts, that Demon is the correct one. Is it a fucking mess? Sure. But it's also fucking fun.

Having a team of new bloods hunting, and run into a girl with something special to her, who turns out to be a fresh Fallen? An entire night of gaming in that single sentence. A Prince allows deforestation of a nearby wildlife reserve, and finds his city being invaded by Garou, and you have a campaign.

There is just so much you can do beyond "You are a [Blank]. Go do stereotypical [Blank] things." I get that you can have a damn compelling game or decades of games based on one splat, and it's preferable if you want a narrow or more focused adventure, but only ever? You are missing out.

>>49927072

I do, I just don't really talk about my games in these threads.

>>49927034
And he shouldn't say >>49924063
>Chrod is a system that its slightly shittier than OWoD at is best but remain consintently shittier and never reaches the low points of OWoD neither.
unless he's willing to elaborate on that statement.

>>49927072
Magical crossover typefucking monster-mash.

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>>49927072

What >>49927117 said.

Some of my players don't like vampires, other don't like werewolves, and others just aren't a fan of horror. My plan, for my first WoD game ever is to start them out as Hunters (which none of them find objectionable) and ease them into playing supernaturals. The first player who dies will wake up, as Fallen. Another will wake up after a night unwinding to find he doesn't need to breath anymore and has a hankering for coed blood. I can't really work Garou into it, due to their nature, but one already wants to start a Mage.

It will probably go up in flames, but meh.

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>>49927189
>unless he's willing to elaborate on that statement.

I didn't say that and I am not that poster. I was correcting your factual inaccuracies.

Of which there were many.
>yfw

>>49927229
Then why are you acting like you are?

>of which there were many
Enumerate them.

>>49927229
A man with a reasonable argument wouldn't need put downs to 'win' a discussion

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>>49927329
>>49927289
>>49927229
Shut the fuck up, christ.
>>49927072
I've talked about a couple of my games in previous threads, I usually run Historical Era games with WoD, my most recent being a Mage: the Awakening campaign based around the rise of Las Vegas in the late 40s.

Can a small child awaken? like an 8-9 year old?

>>49927439
yes

>>49927439
Sure.

I imagine the Consilium would likely impose a full-time Mage to look after him, and teach him why not to engage in the horrendously blatant breaches of Wisdom that such a young child is likely to perform with regularity if unchecked.

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>>49927439
Yes, though their revelations would often be beyond their own ken, I can't imagine their Gnosis increasing particularly quickly.

>>49927523
Most revelations are beyond the ken of the Mage.

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>>49927558
For sure, but I guess i'm just saying that it seems like it'd be rather difficult for them in general; they would have little in the way of personal philosophy and development to guide them and beyond that like >>49927503 the temptation to use their magic in puerile ways would be overwhelming for most children.

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>>49927289
>>49927329
I already did. And I don't like your tone, either.

With citations, even.
>>49916164
>>49916195
>>49916244
>>49916514

Additionally, others weighed in...
>>49923453 among others.

>>49927704
... You have me confused with someone else.
That guy can't understand CofD mechanics in the first place and refused to use them, he just kept complaining about oWoD.

That last person you quoted is me. I meant the person I replied to here >>49924279, because someone said >>49924063
>Chrod is a system that its slightly shittier than OWoD at is best but remain consintently shittier and never reaches the low points of OWoD neither.
Which is a ridiculous statement, as I explained in my post.

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>>49927704
You having to defend you own game does not equate Owod > CoD

>>49927883
Those are entirely subjective and, hence, valueless by default but his statement contains a bit of truth.

CofD is very consistent and was built on a lot of lessons learned. WoD was crushed together by people who broke into what was very much a cottage industry at the time and it's a refinement of something that was very experimental and bare bones. As such, it can be schizophrenic. It does social things very well but combat needs focus and attention. That's what I'd like to see get a full overhaul.

>>49927946
There was a mix up, it's fine.

>>49927970
I literally stuck to the mechanics. More consistent mechanics are objectively better in a mechanical system.
Frankly, I'm not sure how oWoD did social things well. It honestly feels like there's a lot of improvement that could be done. It stuck to more or less the same traditional "roll X to convince them" mechanic that most games have. Even CofD's social system isn't exactly much more complex.

Now, Monsterhearts, there's a game with a great social system.

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>>49927970
>>49928000

Fair Dues, good sir

>>49928000
There's quite a bit in the system's and drama section. Particularly the non violent feeding in Masquerade, three stage repartee with successes carried over, extended debates that are a race between two people to reach a target number of successes over a number of turns.

>>49928000

Monsterhearts runs circles around WoD and CofD when it comes to its specific brand of personal horror and drama, that much is obvious, but comparing it to them isn't really fair for the most part. Monsterhearts is doing a way different thing than either WoD or CofD want to do.

For its time, though, WoD had a surprisingly robust social system that CofD improved on. Focusing on social interaction as much as combat was an amazing that few games did during the era.

>>49927072
Well, not Aspel.

>>49924541
>WoD 20th anniversary is best oWoD
Sure, if you like shitty editing, everything cut and paste from 15+ books regardless of contradiction or redundancy, a huge price tag and pages and PAGES of ranting 90's (in 2016, no less) bullshit about whatever bugbear the author has this week, as well as a returning roster of White Wolf's shittiest artists and writers, because "nostalgia".

Needless to say, Im getting the old editions.

>caution
>massive faggot is about to say "CofD is better anyway, oWod is shit because I don't like it"

>>49924892
Laurel K. Hamilton's first books tried. After about the third one it devolved into supernatural inter-splat pornography.

I'm not complaining. *sniff*

My buddies from our local improv theater want me to run Mage: The Awakening as their Storyteller but being a guy who's only ever run D&D and Shadowrun before I'm getting absolutely fuckall nowhere in wrapping my head around how people do magic in this game.

If I'm reading everything right they just sort of tell me what magic they want to do, and so long as they can justify it being within their "sphere" I arbitrate a difficulty for it and then they roll to do it? Is there no real spell list?

>>49925179
DAMMIT SKANKY!!!

Who else stopped watching when the last season went to shit?

>>49924892
The Grimnoir Chronicles. A 1920 period piece about a secret society of wizards.

>>49929278
Okay, so every spell is the combination of an Arcanum and a Practice. Understand the purviews, and the practices and you've got it down.

The Arcana are stuff like Death, Forces, Matter, Space and so forth, and the Practices being application of those to the world, and of themselves.

So a "Fraying" spell can damage something with a purview, or something else using that purview.
So a Matter fraying spell would either deteriorate non-living matter, or use matter to damage something else.

The books have plenty of example spells for you to wrap your head around the concept.

>>49929278
I'll try and break down the process as best I can, but first I need to ask.
1e MtAw, or 2e?

>>49929255
Which older editions is the best? I'm only familiar with the 20th anniversary lines.

>>49929272
Yeah. And this is one of the reasons Jim Butcher decided to become an author. That porn-switcheroo pissed him off enough that he said "I could do better!" and enrolled in a creative writing class.

>>49929654
Thank God he stuck with it. I had to force my way through the first couple, relying on my friend's word that it would get better.

>>49929670
Yeah. I hear you. I read the first few, dropped them for three years, and then tentatively took up the next one, because I was REALLY bored. Then I got hooked.

That said, he took the writing classes before starting the book series. The improvements are all due to experience.

>>49925307
A fragile alliance between different supernatural races to thrash an even larger threat?

>>49926947
What. Was. That.

>>49926947
>"I can do no wrong... for I know not what it is!"
Sounds like the motto for /pol/

>>49927072
What do you mean, "you people?"

>>49927329
>A man with a reasonable argument wouldn't need put downs to 'win' a discussion

he wouldnt fuckin come to this board either

am i right, everybody?

>>49927704
No-one cares if you got your knickers in a twist over someone's fucking *tone*. People regularly get told to "die in a fire" on 4chan, grow a fucking backbone. Christ....

rip another cod thread

>>49927189
>>Chrod is a system that its slightly shittier than OWoD at is best but remain consintently shittier and never reaches the low points of OWoD neither.

NWOD high target number and exploding dices makes eyeballing stats for NPcs a nightmare. You never know that goon with 4 dices is not gonna kill the PC.

The "1 or 5 success or GTFO" basic mechanic is awkward and makes player feel shitty their 4 successes dont count for shit unless they are in combat.

CoDs made athletics a godstat and a knife thrower the most XP expedient build.

Dramatic failure becoming practically an imposibility to the point CoD has to bribe players to take them.

While OWoD basic system is pasable once you get how to use the 3 mechanics (+/- dices, +/- difficulty and successes required)

>>49926947
If I saw this as kid, I wouldn't really know what to think about it. I think there should be a new rating - something like too deep for kids.

>>49925307
Cosmic level entity has chosen your characters as paragons of their respective splats:
now they are supposed to travel on epic quest for something
or uses a magical mumbo-jumbo to force them to work together while it secretly observes and studies them, if they are slacking off, it arranges more story hooks.

>>49930647
>CoDs made athletics a godstat and a knife thrower the most XP expedient build.
That was 1e, wasn't it?

>>49930647
One die. Several dice.
ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT!?

>>49929398
>1e MtAw, or 2e?

2nd.

>>49929625
>Which older editions is the best? I'm only familiar with the 20th anniversary lines.

Depends which line. Revised is the edition in which lots of things improve but also when the author get pissed that people didnt play the game the way they wanted and try to shit on their fun (Avatar storm for example)

>>49929625
Sometimes you don't have a choice - Hunter and Demon only got one edition before WW pulled life support on the entire universe - but for the "big three" of Mage, Ascension and Werewolf you're probably best off using the rules sets from Revised and ignoring the metaplot shit they put in there. A lot of the 2nd ed books for those 3 still have a lot of good material in them - their 1st editions are too thin on worldbuilding and often have the most heinously broken mechanics, but it is worth skimming them in the MEGA folder (link is in OP) because the art can be inspirational.

Wraith, hands down, 2nd ed is the best. The only redeeming thing about 1st ed was the unbelievably good art.

I'm not qualified to talk about Changeling.

The best advice I can give you is to window shop using the MEGA folder and then order hardcopies of the books you want for references.

(Oh, and Mummy 2nd shits all over Mummy: the Resurrection, WOD Combat is trash, the Time of Judgement books boil down to one useful scenario each and the rest is the TT equivalent of an "on rails shooter"; watch godlike NPC's do things in unskippable cutscenes, roll dice where required and then watch the world die.)

>>49930669
>That was 1e, wasn't it?

Nope, if anything CoD made it more of a godstat. Now athletics also adds to defense.

>>49930673
>ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT!?

Make me faggot.

>>49930679
Okay, there's a lot more customising in 2e for each spell. You need to determine what Yantras (mnemonics to help you cast) you're using, what negative penalties you want to suffer to increase spell factors, and how to spend Reach.

Everything in terms of factors (no of subjects, size of largest subject, (possibly) area of effect, duration, and potency) starts at 0, but you get free points equal to Arcanum proficiency in either Duration or Potency, depending on the nature of the spell.

So say you wanted to cast a Mind-Control spell on a number of enemies, that'd be Potency first. With Mind 4, you'd get 4 Potency (which is likely strong enough), but then you'd want it to last for longer, so you suffer a -4 to increase Duration by 2 steps to 3 turns, and another -4 to move to "4 subjects". All those tables can be found in the appendix.

Then you've got to consider Reach and Paradox. Every Mage gets free reach equal to your Arcanum Dots, minus the requirement of the spell, plus 1. e.g. To cast a Fraying (Mind 3) spell as a Master (5 dots), gives you 3 free Reach.
Reach is spent to make spellcasting an instant action, to directly target someone as opposed to having to touch them or throw the spell at them, increase various scale factors to Advanced (e.g. Duration goes from turns to days, weeks, or even indefinite), and to activate various other effects.
If you have a Rote, when casting that rote you count as a Master for free Reach.

Every point of unaccounted for reach gives Paradox dice. Those are rolled and successes fuck you up if you don't hold it in your soul.

Basically it's a lot of calculating for each spell.
It's what drove a lot of my game group away.
Though really fuck those guys in the first place.
Whiny bitches.

You can get good at it though.

>>49930695
>Nope, if anything CoD made it more of a godstat. Now athletics also adds to defense.
I had a look in rules and I can't see, what's so great about it.
Sure you can use it not only as defense and throwing skill, also for jumping, climbing etc., but throwing weapons will probably wont have as big damage as for instance fire axe and you are going to be limited by their lower count.
For weaponry and brawl you can take one dot merit which allows you to use it for defense too, brawl has advantage of not needing any weapon, with weaponry you don't run out of ammo. And of course brawl a weaponry are useful as prerequisites for more fighting style merits which make them even more useful in combat.
So why it's supposed to be godstat?

>>49930894
It's VERY good to splash into for non-combat or minimally combat characters.

It gives you access to movement skills, defence, and combat.
All with one skill. It's incredibly efficient.

So cabal meets a young girl who is with child. Mage sight reveals Supernal mysteries a foot and the girl is still a virgin. The pregnacy seems to be thrice as fast. Suddenly Sanctum is a nursery.

>>49931011
>Bringing a Sleeper into your Sanctum
What fucking idiots.

>>49930960
>It's VERY good to splash into for non-combat or minimally combat characters.
That looks like quite a backpedaling from "omg godstat"

>>49931011
Kill it with fire before it lays eggs.

>>49931029
Apparently theres is a Supernal magic making her a temporay sleepwalker until the baby is born

>>49931101
>That looks like quite a backpedaling from "omg godstat"
I'm not him.
I agree it's not a God-Stat, but it's still ludicrously efficient.
Perhaps cycle the thrown aspect into Firearms.

Replace Firearms with Ballistics

>>49928154
Iunno, I feel there's enough overlap in the two.
Hrm. I wonder how well you could add Strings to CofD.
They could be Clues, maybe.

>>49931115
Oh good lord.
When that spell wears off she's going to be a broken fucking wreck as the weight of Dissonance comes tumbling down, experiencing every single Breaking Point that would have been triggered by witnessing the various Supernal effects she's seen. Probably enough to send her mad, or turn her into a Slasher.

I'd perform a pre-emptive complete fucking mind-wipe of everything Supernal she's experienced, before the spell wears off.
Can't suffer Dissonance if there's nothing to suffer Dissonance from.

>>49930679
>>49929278
At first your players will want to only use the discreet spell effects listed as examples. These will get them familiar with the system. For each of those spells, they'll only roll Gnosis+Arcanum, and maybe a Yantra bonus. This will teach them the options they have available to them when building a spell effect:
Arcanum (the "what" of the effect that governs what can be affected),
Practice (the "how" of the effect, and whether it helps, harms, or changes),
Factors (how much, how strong, how far),
and Reach (bonuses that make the spell stronger, but more difficult to contain).

Each level of Arcanum adds more Practices to your repertoire, allowing you to accomplish more spell effects. An Arcanum at one dot can only use things like Ruling or Unveiling, and can only nudge or reveal things. As you grow in an Arcanum, you can do things like Fray or Weave, which is generally damaging or healing the concept.

Spell Factors are the real gnitty gritty of a spell, though. Each one has a primary Factor of either Duration or Potency, which is equal to 1+([Arcanum]-1), due to future proofing, and the fact that each factor starts at 1. Factors can all be increased by taking a -2 penalty to the roll for +1 to the Factor's level. Two spells with the same Arcanum and Practice can seem very different with tweaked Spell Factors. The main Factor to keep in mind is Potency, which is the effectiveness of the spell. If a spell tries to do something to some other character, it's Withstood--which means that the Potency is reduced by the target's Attribute.

Last is Reach, which is essentially how much power you're willing to put into the spell, with the caveat that more power makes a spell more difficult to control. Every character has a "safe" Reach equal to their dots in the Arcanum. Going above that means the spell risks Paradox, which is the outside forces of chaos unraveling or wreaking havoc on the spell.

>>49931142
>weight of Dissonance
Weight of Quiescence, rather.

>>49931142
She wont remember the her child?

>>49931174
If you're smart, you might be able to prune and re-write memories sufficient to give her a proper memory of pregnancy and birth.
Even keep the Child with her. Let her raise it.

But if you care at all about her sanity, you've got to get all memories of Magic out of her head before that spell wears off.

>>49930894
>you can take one dot merit which allows you to use it for defense too

Do you know the name/pag of the merit? Im looking in my CoD book and cant find it.

>>49930647
>NWOD high target number and exploding dices makes eyeballing stats for NPcs a nightmare. You never know that goon with 4 dices is not gonna kill the PC.
No it doesn't. Three dice is roughly one success.
>The "1 or 5 success or GTFO" basic mechanic is awkward and makes player feel shitty their 4 successes dont count for shit unless they are in combat.
I've honestly never had a problem with that. It's not like other systems don't do similar, it's just less of a problem because the difference is more graduated.
>CoDs made athletics a godstat and a knife thrower the most XP expedient build.
Not really. People keep arguing about Athletics, and it's true that the fastest way to get Defense is just to take a ton of dots in Athletics, but so what? I have never let a player take Athletics 5 just because. (That said, I do often suggest using [the lower of Brawl or Athletics]).
>Dramatic failure becoming practically an imposibility to the point CoD has to bribe players to take them.
I'm aware of that. I think that the chance die system is bad, and that one of the few flaws of the system is the fact that at high penalties there's often no point in rolling. But I love systems that bribe players to take negative effects.
>While OWoD basic system is pasable once you get how to use the 3 mechanics (+/- dices, +/- difficulty and successes required)
Shifting target number of dice makes it far more difficult to figure out the competency in oWoD. This is a mathematical fact simply due to the fact that there's far more swing when shifting the target number. Nevermind that three mechanics is far more difficult than a single mechanic.

>>49931218
Defensive Combat.
Mage the Awakening 105.
Surprised it's not in the CofD core book.

>>49931119
I agree it's a tad stronger than it should be (especially compared to some skills you won't see used in whole campaign) and I understand why it uses athletics - throwing javelin etc.
Imho it would be enough to use cover against it (that should be probably used anyway) and ballistic armor.
Ofc there is also major difference in efficiency of throwing between mortal game and supernatural characters game, given how easily can most splats boost strength compared to dexterity and usage of natural weapons.

>>49931196
Unless the baby is supernal too. This isnt going to be a happy ending

Whats the difference between multilingual and language?

>>49931119
>>49930960
>>49930894
>>49930695
>>49930669
I find that the "Athletics is a God-Stat!" arguments tend to be overblown. It's not even as necessary or meaningful as Dexterity is in Exalted, where if you don't have it you might as well burn your character sheet. Athletics is used a lot in the game, it's true. If nothing else, you're going to be doing an awful lot of running.

But there are so many necessary stats in the game (Occult, Persuasion, Subterfuge, Investigation, Weaponry/Firearms, not to mention whatever your powers run off of) and it's already a system where you're encouraged to take things related to your concept more than just building Call of Cthulhu Investigator Type #4. Which is primarily one reason I never let players start with more than 3 in any Attributes/Skills to begin with. There are a lot of traits that are more useful than other traits within the same category (Mystery Cult Initiation is essentially "free dots", Resources and Status mean getting other people to solve your problems, Politics is not as useful as Investigation, most characters will never need Survival), but this is a game where you're encouraged to value things more because they fit your character, not because you metaknow that only putting dots in Investigation, Athletics, Firearms, and Persuasion is "best". Yeah, this is a game where fighting and running and all that is good, but this is also a game where you're likely to things more complicated than cellphone RPG.

Put another way: A useless character who can survive combat is still a useless character.

>>49931288
Language requires no rolls.
Multilingual is knowing languages, but not well enough to speak them fluently. Good enough to translate, or talk slowly, but not enough to have a real conversation.

>>49931242
It actually is in CofD core book, page 61
In God-Machine Chronicle page 176

>>49931288
language is near native language speaker
multilingual is just conversational knowledge of language, Intelligence + Academics to understand written text, but you have 2 languages for 1 merit dot

>>49931011
Virginity is a lie made up by men to own their daughters sexuality. It's an outdated concept that should be consigned to the junk-heap of history, dating back to noblemen obsessing about their bloodlines.

I have relatives that conceived babies from heavy petting, for fuck's sake. Get with the fucking times.

>>49931616
>I have relatives that conceived babies from heavy petting
holy shit, I'm going to start using hand sanitiser

>>49931616
Go away Aspel. Sluts will be sluts

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>>49931616
This is very tru--
>I have relatives that conceived babies from heavy petting, for fuck's sake.
Wait, seriously? How heavy was this petting? I mean, I know it's technically possible, but highly improbable unless you're, like, jerking off into your hand and then jilling someone.

>>49931683
Good. Sluts are great, and only losers stigmatize them.

hey, folks!
I'll play a VTM (V20) game soon. I chose to play as a Tremere. Which disciplines and rituals are more fun and creative? I have access to supplements as well.

We'll start in London by 1800 and the campaign will suffer several time jumps to our time.

>>49931683
Wouldn't Aspel be going on about virgins needing to be sodomised by castrated shark-people? Cervical penetrations with inhuman penises? Muscular, masculine, nappy-clad brutal breeding? All the other shit that was in that fucking pastebin??

>>49931713
>>I have relatives that conceived babies from heavy petting, for fuck's sake.
>Wait, seriously? How heavy was this petting?

Absolutely no penetration was involved. The man in question shot his load outside his partner's body, but it dripped or something. Anyway, she had to have her hymen done before she could birth the baby. Simple enough procedure, if a little embarassing.

>>49931808
I have freaky fetishes but I'm also pretty SJW so that's probably what he's getting at.

>>49931772
The path of Conjuring is basically Chimerstry, only much cheaper to operate, and not an illusion.

The path of flames is pretty badass but there's no information about how the caster is affected, if at all, by Rotschreck.

Only 3 dots in Movement of the Mind is needed to levitate yourself and Clive Barker that shit.

Of the rituals, some are more useful than others... I vaguely recall one that allows the manufacture of "blood pills", and another that wards a haven against sunlight. Wards in general are pretty cool.

I know most vamps are supposed to start with Path of Blood but it kind of sucks. First dot allows you to "taste" a vamp's vitae and know their bloodline, their generation, whether they're a diablerist, etc..... because who doesn't love being a step closer to becoming blood-bound to a diablerist?

>>49931713
>Good. Sluts are great, and only losers stigmatize them.
This pretty much

>>49931827
Not all people who believe in equality are "Social Justice Warriors", any more than all men who care about men's health are "Men's Rights Activists". SJW is a meaningless pejorative thrown around by losers who don't want to accept that their advantages in life come from a hierarchy that by it's very nature puts people below them.... or gormless pin-dicks who think humiliating random women together will somehow make up for the gnawing emptiness in their lives and the fact they have no clue what a man is supposed to be anymore.

Also, Aspel? Go to /d/ man, they miss you.

>>49931854
As a Tremere, you want utility that'll help not only you, but your friends. The problem you'll run into is that, you'll run afoul of guys with Celerity.

Path of the Focused Mind is useful and fun to play around with (up to the point of getting 2 Mental actions, so 2 castings of Thaumaturgy). Path of Blood is good for utility and combat and, dropping Generation is never to be overlooked. Lure of Flames is the big primary combat Thaumaturgy.

Here, lookit this:

http://reference.l2fury.com/index.php/Thaumaturgy

>>49931891
>Lure of Flames is the big primary combat Thaumaturgy.
Is the caster affected by Rotschreck after they "release" the flame from their hand?

>>49931920
It states fire under the caster's control doesn't cause him to frenzy, but fires caused by this do, so I would rule that anything he casts is fine, but those curtains back there that are burning because of your magical fire would cause frenzy check.

>>49931616
>implying fathers owning their daughters sexuality is a bad thing
I would write something about necessary prevention of mongrels in a family, but this isn't /pol/

>>49931713
>Good. Sluts are great, and only losers stigmatize them.
Unless it's your girlfriend

>>49931885
from the bs you write I thought you are Aspel

>>49932038
Probably is, false flagging.

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>>49931854
>>49931891
>>49931920
>>49931976

thanks, guys! if you want to share more info, be my guest!

>>49932038
Please leave /tg/
>>>/pol/
>>>/r9k/
>>>/r/RedPill

>>49932038
>from the bs you write
*yawn*
>>>/d/

>>49932087
what else would you like to know?

>>49932087
The current Tremere I'm playing focused on Auspex, since his concept was 'a human who was a psychic who got Embraced, and only part of his psychic powers stayed, and he sucks at real magic'. He's focused on Auspex to the exclusion of all else, but Elder Powers ae nice.

The Tremere I played before that was a more traditional Tremere, taken from the ranks of a mortal occult group and came from a line that liked to use curses. He had Blood at 3, Path of Blood's Curse at 5, and Hands of Destruction at 4. I think I used a lot of the utility rituals. Wards, Blood pellets, deflection, pavis...

>>49932038
shouldn't you be stalking women on facebook or something?

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>>49932087
This "Gentleman Gamer" guy was part of Onyx Path before they got the shaft all the way from Iceland. This is his take on Clan Tremere, of the House Tremere;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqg5QmbyTuo

>all /pol/ users are instructed to watch the bouncing breasts and chill out

>>49932156
thanks. I like auspex, it's pretty useful.

>>49932195
thanks, will watch this.
>mynx
oh, you devil little buxom

>>49932147
well, knowing the bad choices could be useful as well, like bad talents in D&D. Do you have any tips regarding those?

>>49932206
I thought it was a different take on a Tremere, and it has led to some unique and fun play. Plus some of the Level 6 discipline powers (which is cool, I'm glad the ST has trusted me playing a 7th Generation vampire) are neat and make up for some things the coterie lacks..

>>49932206
I think there's more value in spreading your points around for a bunch of different paths than starting your character with one path maxxed out. The value of Thaumaturgy is it's flexibility.

What you should max out is Willpower.

>Each time the character invokes one of the powers of a Thaumaturgical path, the thaumaturge's player must spend a blood point and make a Willpower roll against a difficulty of the power's level +3. Only one success is required to invoke a path's effect - path levels, not successes, govern the power of blood magic. Failure on this roll indicates that the blood magic fails, while a botch signifies that the character loses a permanent Willpower point.

>>49932310
indeed. once, playing Requiem in Jerusalem, my 'crusader' mekhet had a distinct habit of oiling his sword and them flaming it up. and I had only 3 willpower... but passed all frenzy tests. it was glorious to imagine the 'islamic' prince's guards faces seeing that!

>>49932195
I don't think Gentleman Gamer was an original writer. He got picked up for writing *because* of those segments.

>>49931140

Monsterhearts is far more interested in using its system on replicating the petty exchanges of power in unhealthy relationships/teenage relationships. You need something more generalized for CofD/WoD's more generalized focus. The Door system is a good attempt at doing that, though people run hot and cold on it.

>>49932526
While it's true Monsterhearts is for a specific type of relationship, it's also used across the board for everything. It wouldn't necessarily need to be handled that way for CofD. But I could very much see the Strings system used for something that feels more Game of Thrones than Mean Girls.

Dogs in the Vineyard also has something similarly interesting for manipulations and machination, where you get bonuses to future conflicts if you back down.

>>49932571
There's an indy Vampire Heartbreaker out there called Undying that uses a neat 'bidding war' mechanic for stuff like that. The bidding war is like bidding in poker, combined with a narrative, to see who outlasts who in the bid-raise-call war.

>>49932492
That I cannot say... it is interesting to read his posts on the OPP forums though, they often reveal insider facts about White Wolf.

For example, one post he wrote offhandedly commented that the various "By Night" books never sold anywhere near as well as the more generic oWoD titles (probably the reason OPP made so many "toolkit" titles for CofD). People inside America bought books of cities close to them, people outside it only bought American cities that had a certain level of fame or infamy (so they sold a lot of New York By Night but fuck all for Milwaukee By Night). For cities outside the US, the sales were even worse. US citizens don't seem to care about the outside world ("There is nothing outside the city!" -- Gormenghast), European players only wanted the books about Europe and nobody in Australia liked Rage Across Australia.

All of this spells a certain kind of financial doom for Ericsson's plan of releasing multiple books focusing on the Middle East and Eastern Europe, and shows that the new White Wolf strategies were concocted without a single discussion with the more experienced game designers they just fired.

Mark Rein (dot) Hagen is going to be *pissed*

>>49932571

It's used across the board because every single mechanic is dedicated to replicating high school politics and paranormal romance scenarios. It's like how Dogs in the Vineyard is crafted for high tension conflicts. The thing about the so-called "Story Games" is that the good ones are intricate rulesets, and taking one mechanic out and slapping it into another game isn't going to be effective without some major changes to fit the root system. They're not like so-called "old school revolution" games, which are intended to be so modular that one game may use two or three different games' mechanics at once, with very little tailoring.

A String system in CofD would probably just become a very specific way of handing out Beats, Hold as a mechanic isn't really native to CofD's system.

>>49932629

I gotta check out Undying, it looks pretty neat AND there's a Game of Thrones hack for it.

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>>49930669
Here you go. This is the simplified version that assumes no ones rolled.

When will White Wolf release the new tabletop games? I just want an announcement or some shit. They're killing me.

>>49932718

Considering that the tabletop games are also supposed to be video game bibles, probably not for a couple years at least.

>>49932697
Undying is also free as text-only under a creative commons license. I have enjoyed some of the mechanics there.

https://enigmamachinations.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/undying-free-text-edition.pdf

>>49932750

Oh dang, thanks! Gonna go over this right now.

>>49931854
That's something left out from previous editions. Lure of the Flames does not give the caster Rotschreck...

>>49932718
Current timetable for Fifth Edition of Vampire the Masquerade (the current, utterly shitty working title is "V:V" ) is a release sometime around 2018. Werewolf and Mage will follow.
>>49932749
>video game bibles
Who are they kidding? They couldn't even get their shit together for a single MMO, how the fuck are they going to handle anything more complex than a mobile game?

This article shows how appallingly bad CCCP management are at their jobs:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf

>>49932827
Because it's not owned by CCP anymore, it's owned by Paradox Interactive.

>>49932716
Meant for... >>49931230
Now STFU

>>49932827

Paradox is better at getting games done than CCP, I would hope. Especially since White Wolf wants to focus on licensing. What's probably happen is that they'll want to do it in-house, end up finding it too difficult, then just hire OPP's freelancers to make it, along with whatever video game writing team gets to do a new Vampire game.

>>49932827
(from the article)
>One manager couldn't answer questions on gameplay or focus. I remember him standing over the shoulder of a programmer putting his finger to his lips and saying 'No - make it more... psssshhhh’

It needs more CHAPAAA in Promethean to make it really "sizzle". If we can just add some FSSSSSSHHHHHH and AKAKAKAKAKAKA to Requiem, why, those Wizards of the Coast cunts won't know what hit them.

>>49932898
>Now STFU
It was an on-topic post. Calm the fuck down.

>>49932951
What, if anything, do Paradox Interactive have under their belt? The parent company they split from at least had KULT to point at.

>>49932827
>Current timetable for Fifth Edition of Vampire the Masquerade (the current, utterly shitty working title is "V:V" )
Wait, what the hell was the fourth edition?

Wasn't this titled Vampire 4e back when it was OPP's project?

>>49933042
Video games wise?

Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, Stellaris.

Paradox produces smallish games with incredibly dedicated cult followings, then bleeds them dry with DLC expansions while they thank them for it.

Sticking with their games and providing a steady stream of new content is one thing Paradox is known for.

>>49932716
>>49932898
"oWoD is so much simpler and easier to eyeball, let me prove it by showing the complicated math and high level of variance involved"
I'm not sure what you felt you were proving. In fact, I'm not even entirely sure what this information is trying to convey. Are you really trying to tell me this is easier than CofD's system of "three dice is about one success"?

>>49932675
>All of this spells a certain kind of financial doom for Ericsson's plan of releasing multiple books focusing on the Middle East and Eastern Europe, and shows that the new White Wolf strategies were concocted without a single discussion with the more experienced game designers they just fired.
To be fair on that last bit, the world is much bigger now. People in the Middle East weren't really *getting* World of Darkness books in the 90s. With digital distribution (which I'm sure Dracula will ignore) that's a possibility.

>>49932697
I feel like you missed my point, which is that the concept of "getting social leverage" can be useful outside of the Mean Girls game. It's not about taking one mechanic from a completely different game and slapping it into another. It's about taking the idea and making it work in a different system.

>>49932827
Everyone else already said it, but still. This isn't CCP. This is a completely different company that purchased the brand. White Wolf's new parent company also has far more than one single game. CCP on the other hand has one massively successful game and a handful of shitty failed projects.

>>49933095
>Wait, what the hell was the fourth edition?
20th Anniversary Edition

>>49933158
WWP is acknowledging the 20th anniversary omnibus as a proper edition?

>>49933171
Yup. They stated that in a previous interview, that V20 is being considered a 4th Edition proper.

>>49933171
Yes. Onyx Path hadn't planned to, and actually announced VtMIV right before the sale, though

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>>49930791

Suggestion:: Print out the spell casting apex in the back of the book, and let the players take notes. It's complicated Yes. But very rewarding when you get it going

>>49933194
I guess that makes sense after they released a bunch of supplement books, but I'm still amused that it runs directly counter to the OPP press release (before the new edition was taken out of their hands).
>V4 is the next edition of Vampire: the Masquerade, which means that it is the successor to VtM Revised Edition, not V20. V20 was a compilation, not a new edition.
>The format of V4 has yet to be determined, but the one thing we do not want it to be is a single huge volume like V20. We want this edition to please all our current community, of course, but it is vital that V4 is accessible to new players.
>That being said, V4 is the next edition of Vampire: the Masquerade, not a different vampire game. We love VtM, and are not totally reimagining it. We look at the modern era of Doctor Who, or Mad Max: Fury Road as examples of how to create a new version that is right for its time but still evokes all the qualities that the originals did and can still be seen as a continuation of the whole series.

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Ludevic is either a Genius or one of the Mad.

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So, my cop just got fired in a fairly long running HtV game.
I'm struggling to figure out how to redefine her because a lot of her identity was tied to the job, her desire to advance in the ranks, and how she would react to this.
Would she turn to despondency, or lashing out at the world? Take up drink or perhaps even walk away from everything? Devote herself to the Vigil with unceasing, unreasonable fervor, now that it is all she has left?
Is this something to discuss with my ST?

>>49933117
>Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, Stellaris.

I have never heard of any of them before today, which says a lot about their market profile.

2nd question, are any of those games any good?

>>49932716
>incomprehensible math-major bullshit

Wow.... that, uh.... that's the "simplified" version, huh? Jesus. What's the "complicated" version?

>>49933215
OPP won't be doing that anymore, though. The new edition which Paradox is calling 5th Edition will be done in house by Paradox, and it's been stated that once 5th edition drops OPP will lose the licensing rights to OWoD stuff and production on 20th Anniversary stuff will stop.

>>49933153
Jesus fucking Christ, you're stupid. It's an extremely linear progression and any system that uses multiple dice will use this kind of system.

Like CofD, retard.

>>49933297
>A game that has shifting target numbers AND increased dice pools is easier to understand than a game that uses only increased dice pools! Don't you get it, you RETARD?

>>49933271
The number is your chance to roll no successes at a given dice pool at a given difficulty with 0 representing guaranteed success and 1 representing guaranteed failure.

Of you could have, I dunno, read the first paragraph.

>Claiming that one system is better.
>Not being able to into mathematics.

>>49933215
It's because, as far as I can see, there is no continuity whatsoever between the employees who worked for OPP and the 4 or so gasbaggers that now make up White Wolf v3.1 (still in beta).

"we love VtM, and we are not totally re-imagining it" has therefore switched to "yeah, I guess those old editions are kind of cool... but I want to smear handfuls of my own ideas all over the franchise!!! You are what you eat!!!!!"

>>49933326
>(Rolling Dice pool v. fixed difficulty)
>Perfect system.

>(Rolling dice pool v. variable difficulties that most other modern RPG's have.)
>ZOMG Stupidest thing ever.

Chrodfags. Not even once/

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>>49933245
Really? They're the grand strategy games that are intensely political and hard to play. They're set throughout history, middle ages to the Victorian Era and I believe Hearts of Iron is WW1, not sure about Stellaris. They're definitely not widely popular games but I thought so many people had seen pic related?

>>49933230
She could become a private detective, her knowledge of police procedures and law would be invaluable, and it still ties in neatly with a Vigil. Plus, her old buddies on the force could be approached from time to time for information....

She could become obsessed with the last case she worked on, like the guys in "True Detective".

Finally, yes, she could just take up drinking until you need to roleplay out an intervention with the rest of the players, but that might be a little too real for people used to curbstomping Prometheans.

Would a Fireman be a believable job for a high willpower promethean?

I figure that you aren't terribly likely to have trouble with disquiet between the combination of most firemen presumably having good resolve + composure and the ease of switching schedules so you're able to be away from a coworker who gets stage one for at least a week.

I think it would also encompass enough aspects of humanity to fly through the journey.

>>49933297
>you're stupid
>retard

Hey fuckface, eat a Snickers. You turn into Donald Trump when you're hungry.

>>49933398
Did they remove Wasteland effect of Prometheans staying in once place for too long? If not, I think you're fucked no matter WHAT job.

>>49924892
Mike Carey's Felix Castor novels.

>>49933369
>intensely political and hard to play
surely you mean blobbing into every direction and facerolling any opposition

>>49933425
Your shit is weak, kid.

>>49933367
Can you not understand that less math is easier?
It's not about one being the best system ever or the other being the stupidest thing ever.
It's about one being objectively--and yes, I mean objectively--much easier to comprehend at a glance.
"Three dice is about one success" is not complicated. Needing a series of tables to figure out what will be a successful roll on the other hand IS complicated. It in every sense of the word literally--and yes, I mean literally--has more complexity.

>>49933352
As an outside observer, I have no idea why people are so against the whole "you are what you eat" thing. Technically speaking the game already required you to drink blood from a vampire who already knew the Discipline to learn something outside your Clan's specifics in the first place.

>>49933230
>Would she turn to despondency, or lashing out at the world? Take up drink or perhaps even walk away from everything? Devote herself to the Vigil with unceasing, unreasonable fervor, now that it is all she has left?
All of the above are valid options, and she may go through several of them (or even go through Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance). I think >>49933394 makes a good suggestion.

>>49933398
Prometheans are more damaged by fire than normal firefighters, so that'd probably make you more likely to go into Torment (though it's not like a Frenzy thing where the presence of it frightens you). And it's also not very easy to know if you've put someone into Disquiet to begin with, unless you're on certain Refinements. It's a valid thing for a while, but I don't think it would help you "fly through" the Pilgrimage. Pilgrimages very rarely want you to stay in one place or settle down.

>>49933433
No, but Wasteland is tied to spending Pyros. I'm too lazy to check, but I think it's 10-Azoth Pyros in a scene.

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>>49933349
First off, yes, it is incomprehensible math-major bullshit, I'm sorry to rain on your parade. Why would "0" represent a guaranteed success? That seems utterly arbitrary. Why can't the chart express 1/500 or 1/32 chances like normal human beings use? Does it make you feel clever, using a system only someone with a college education can read, or does it just ease the burn over owing thousands on tuition fees for a diploma that isn't worth the paper it's printed on?

>>Claiming that one system is better.
>>Not being able to into mathematics.

Buddy, apart from you and me there are 36 other posters in this thread. 36. I never claimed that one system was better than another. Stop assuming this entire thread is you and one other guy.

>>49933369
>intensely political and hard to play

I'll say. Your picture is a real "yo my liege, I heard you like assassins, so we assassinated your assassin" moment

>>49933439
I guess I played it wrong then, my step-sister was a biological weapon, seduced me and then fucked my son and my family died in ignomity. Such is life in Ireland.

To get back on topic though, how does /tg/ run its Blood Hunts? There's one down in my campaign, and only after the Prince called it did I take a step back and think "wait how the hell does this work?" Does every Coiterie in the city in go guns blazing on that one Kindred? Is there some higher up management or co-ordination involved?

>>49933441
>waaaaaaah
I see a crabby little boy who needs his bottom changed.

>>49933530
There's not really a hard rule, because each Prince is going to be more lenient or strict. When I ran one before, the players and NPCs respected the base rules of the Traditions, which kept things like open gun battles and running down the street, swinging axes at Celerity speed, in check. A lot of it involved people pulling Influence to find the individual, keeping things out of the mortal line of sight, and giving the vampire a run for his money. In the end he was killed and unable to be diablerized, because we had one PC who was anti-diablerie (and eventually supplanted the Prince at the end of the game and was like the Hyper Pope of Anti Diablerists).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NaUmHF5blE

>The Demon: Darkling Flamesiren
>The Spaceman: Elemental Dual Kith (Levinquick+Minstrel)
>The Catman: Beast Nightsinger.
>The Starchild: Fairest Thusser

>>49933461
>As an outside observer, I have no idea why people are so against the whole "you are what you eat" thing.

Because it directly contradicts a previous White Wolf v3.1 statement about how they wanted players to see mortals as "more than health potions on legs".

The example that WW gave was feeding on ignored homeless people to fuel Obfuscate, but let's say that for fuelling Thaumaturgy you need to snack on students of the occult, mages, mystics. They represent a very small wedge of the population, so the moment a player meets one, they don't see a person, they see 10 Thaumaturgical Blood Points on legs.

Kindred of The East was widely panned because players had to monitor their Yang, Yin, Demon Chi and one other that escapes me right now.... the rise and fall of these have major mechanical and gameplay effects such as vulnerability to wood vs. metal, characterisation and abilities, so essentially you had to book-keep four different blood pools.

Now imagine that you've got separate Blood Pools for each Discipline, and you're starting to see the problem.

>Technically speaking the game already required you to drink blood from a vampire who already knew the Discipline to learn something outside your Clan's specifics in the first place.

That's a relatively recent development, the earliest it popped up seems to have been the godawful "Vampire: Redemption" PC game myself and so many others wasted countless hours on until they abandoned the rest of the party for dead and made Christof roll solo. It may have been written up in Revised, but I don't know where - it certainly wasn't in 2nd Ed.

>Prometheans
Hey, you might know the answer to this. Prometheans is based on the classic Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, right? The Monster HATED fire, he was really scared of it... so why don't Prometheans roll for fear-based Frenzy at the sight of it? Fire is supposed to be the most ancient weapon Humanity has to beat back the darkness, after all.

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>>49933602
Forgot me webm.

>>49933632
We also don't know if that mechanic will be exactly 1-for-1 what it was in the LARP that they used it in. But in the Nordic, rules-lite LARP they ran where YAWYE was a thing, that's how it worked. But that also had the benefit of having everyone in that 300 person LARP pre-cast, with only about 20% of them being vampires and them not actually spending blood; ot use the power you had to have fed from them, but you didn't track each type of blood separately.

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>>49933530
Think of it more of an open and official Bounty of the Domain. There's a job to do and payment to be hand. The downside being you need to get your hands dirty.

Like the blood hunt target is non persona grata, with penalty of death if caught. A lot of fckrs take this chance to jump ship into the next city if they can. And even that is dangerous.

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>>49933639
>that WEBM

I'm so fucking confused.

>>49933688
The Scooby Doo Direct-To-DVD movies can do that to people.

>>49933245
Oh, I forgot the Victoria series; that one's in there too.

Crusader kings is the middle ages, EU is 1444 to 1812, Victoria is 1812 through to the beginning of WW2, and Hearts of Iron is WW2 (exclusively).

>>49933530
>To get back on topic though, how does /tg/ run its Blood Hunts?

Uh, let's see.... I knew some players in a game (not mine, thankfully) who were so used to being loud obnoxious assholes that they shat all over the Masquerade in the first session. Tiring of their bullshit, the Prince dutifully wrote their names in blood on a scroll and cast it into a fire, announcing to the Primogen their souls were forfeit. A Brujah Elder promptly whipped a crowd up into a small riot (Presence) to provide plausible cover and distract Law Enforcement, but that was because the Kindred knew where they were. The players, ignoring all warning signs and their diminishing Humanity scores, blew up a busload of nuns. The ST laughed heartily as he described the players caught between a SWAT team and the Diablerie awaiting them if they escaped. They ended their unlives in a haze of automatic weapons fire and botched soak rolls.

I believe the ST burped, then said something like "Thank fuck that's over. Next time we play Cyberpunk 2020."

In a situation where the quarry goes to ground, the Blood Hunt becomes a lot like an outstanding warrant, "Dead or Alive but preferably Dead". If anyone finds the quarry and identifies them, it is on like Donkey Kong until they die, or pack up and leave the city. This is supposed to be quite difficult because of the various shifters in the wilderness who get spirits warning them about Wyrmspawn. Also, in this age of information, news travels fast...

>>49933639
Why does the Spaceman have lightning powers? He should summon meteorites or black holes

An upstate New York college dean who is secretly a vampire has constant standoffs with resident Pure and Forsaken fraternities; Alpha Alpha Alpha and Delta Omega Gamma.

>>49933766
It really sounds like their entire business model is built on products for niche markets. No wonder they want to push the WW IP into things like Television.

>>49933632
>Because it directly contradicts a previous White Wolf v3.1 statement about how they wanted players to see mortals as "more than health potions on legs".
I don't really see how. I mean, this incentives getting to know and hanging around hobos. I mean, you can argue that it makes you see people as power dispensers, but you could also say that it encourages the characters to see people in terms of "what can I learn from studying and drinking from this person?"
I mean, that Beast: the Primordial has powers that you're meant to gain by hanging around people and learning from and about them is one of it's good things.

I don't really think that they're going to be using completely different blood pools for each Discipline. I think it's more that you'll need to hang around and drink from homeless people [in a non-mechanical vague sense] to gain Obfuscate. I mean, one of the reasons I don't understand why people hate this is because let's be honest, everyone ignores things like training times and narrative requirements anyway. Unless it's listed as a prerequisite, no one really cares. I don't think I've ever seen an ST in any game--*oD or otherwise--that bothered with monitoring things like "you must train for X weeks" or anything else like that.

How it's going to work is that there will be all this fluff about how you need to drink from specific people, maybe even rule of thumbs like you need to spend a week drinking from them once a day, and then people will ignore that and it'll all happen off screen.

> It may have been written up in Revised, but I don't know where - it certainly wasn't in 2nd Ed.
I know that it's been in Requiem since the beginning, but again, people ignore that, even though it's got big story implications. (Technically speaking I think you can also learn Bloodline Disciplines in that way).

>>49933846
No love for Kappa Omnicron Kappa?
>the walk of shame, she's not to blame
>who can resist the KOK?

>>49933845
>Why does the Spaceman have lightning powers?
How the fuck am I supposed to know?

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>>49933801
>I believe the ST burped, then said something like "Thank fuck that's over. Next time we play Cyberpunk 2020."
>players show up next session with this

>>49933857
Yeah. Stellaris is as mainstream as they've gotten, and that one's basically a mixture of their standard grand strategy game and your typical Space 4X like the Galactic Civilizations series, or Masters of Orion, or Space Empires.

and Space 4X as a genre isn't exactly mainstream.

>>49933882
Drinking a blood to get the training for at least the first dot was a thing at least in Revised.

>>49933882
I thought the only disciplines you needed to drink to learn in VtR were the clan secret ones like Protean and Majesty? The "Common" disciplines (vigor, resilience, celerity, obfuscate, and I might be forgetting another) you can just develop on your own.

>>49933632
>Prometheans and Fire
I'm pretty sure Adam was scared of fire because people were waving it at him. I can't say I've read the book, but I don't really think I've heard anything about the original being deathly terrified of flames. From what I can tell he really seems to erudite for that.
But Prometheans don't really need fear from Fire because Fire is terrifying enough on it's own. For Vampires there's a lot more cultural baggage of flinching and fleeing from sunlight, though.
Now, getting damaged by fire is a whole 'nother beast, and that's more likely to get into Tammuz Smash territory.

>>49933530
Frankly I think doing it the way that the VtM:B game did it is stupid. >>49933670 has a good take.
Not everyone is going to want to get their hands dirty, though.
Also frankly the concept of a blood hunt is a bit stupid in the first place, since don't corpses ash, generally? How do you prove someone's dead unless enough credible witnesses saw it? Part of the point of the Hunt is to get props, kudos, and acclaim.

Think of a Blood Hunt as being an outlaw.

>>49925307
You're basically playing Dr. Strange and the Defenders at that point.

>>49933915
aawwwww shit, I'd almost forgotten about the World of Future Darkness. Good memory, anon.

>>49933670
>>49933801
>>49933968
Cheers guys, I was a little stumped.

>>49933153

In that case, Doors already takes care of social leverage, it just assumes that getting social leverage is a war of attrition as opposed to "I've got something on you". Like a lot of what CofD does, it assumes that you're playing the game for an unspecified but very extended length of time, and treats its mechanics as such.

For the more direct social leverage that Monsterhearts has, it'd probably just come down to throwing Conditions on people or regular opposed social rolls with an added Beat incentive.

>>49933968
>I can't say I've read the book, but I don't really think I've heard anything about the original being deathly terrified of flames. From what I can tell he really seems to erudite for that.

First off, he wasn't named Adam in the original treatment... Viktor Frankenstein was the original dead-beat dad, he bailed on his creation immediately and refused to name him. In Mary Shelley's original novel, he is simply "the Monster". That's part of his tragedy - he was so shut out of the human race he wasn't even given a name. It took him some time to learn speech, and the original novel never showed that he could read. The truly erudite and educated version of the Monster reached it's apex in the Showtime series "Penny Dreadful", where a painfully shy and tortured monster finds a love of poetry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqbdfLVtWis

Second, the "Franky has a fear of fire" idea has it's roots in the 1938-ish Frankenstein movie, starring Boris Karloff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebg79nKWDU

This was played for laughs in the still amusing "Young Frankenstein".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXGzO2aDDRU

>>49934244

Yeah, people only get Adam as a name because the monster says "I am your Adam" at one point. It's not a declaration of a name, it's just an observation.

>>49933968
>Also frankly the concept of a blood hunt is a bit stupid in the first place, since don't corpses ash, generally? How do you prove someone's dead unless enough credible witnesses saw it? Part of the point of the Hunt is to get props, kudos, and acclaim.

I thought of it more as a "fire and forget" way of coping with enemies. Declare them good as dead and you can happily go about your unlife knowing that any closet Diabolists have permission to run wild.

The problem I can see is when an Auspex user identifies black streaks in the successful hunter's aura. How do they know the person really munched on who they say they did, that it was only the once? It devolves into "he said, she said, they said".

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>>49933461
Because it's not all that much math to begin with. It doesn't take a chart to say "Six dice at difficulty six: I got this shit."

And the point of it is the color coded section. It's, again, a linear progression. There are no wild irregularities, excepting botches which are hardly novel. you're just pissed that you got caught meming hard.

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>Using *oD to play a Bloodborne Inspired campaign.

Pros and Cons?

>>49933857
Paradox is also publisher and they published some quite mainstream games: Cities: Skylines, Pillars of Eternity, Magicka, Mount & Blade, Penumbra

>>49933961
In VtR all clans are able to learn without training (not counting in-clan disciplines ofc) only so called physical disciplines - resilence, vigor, celerity and animalism.

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>>49934748
>It doesn't take a chart to say "Six dice at difficulty six: I got this shit."

No it takes a chart to say "Six dice Diff six, get three suxs; Also take a three dice penality, but lower the diff by two, and I'll give you one free sux for Potence."

>249 V20
Degrees of Success
One Success Marginal (getting a broken refrigerator to keep running until the repairman arrives)
Two Successes Moderate (making a handicraft that’s ugly but useful)
Three Complete (fixing something so that it’s good as new)
Four Exceptional (increasing your car’s efficiency in the process of repairing it)
Five or More Phenomenal (creating a masterwork)

I'll make this simple and spell it out, Classic has three mechanics for rolling dice:

Increasing/lowing dice pool
Increasing/lowing target number
Increasing/lowing number of suxs, and auto

Where as New has one mechanic:
Increasing/lowing dice pool

Its about two extra charts of "Just Math" I'm not saying it's terrible, just stop saying classic simpler than Nwod

>>49934160
Chronicles HAS similar things, they just don't explicitly identify it as such. My original suggestion was social Clues. That's a thing that you can already do, they just don't spell out that you could use it in the same way that Monsterhearts uses Strings; i.e. getting leverage on a person due to your intimate knowledge of who they are and what they want. There's also just using it as Leverage. Monsterhearts has a very *good* system, but Chronicles has a very *robust* system. I'm not talking about taking Monsterheart's idea and shoving it in so much as using the lessons from that game with what Chronicles already gives us

>>49934244
>>49934281
Fine, _________. Either way, you knew what I meant when I said Adam and to top it off no one jumps in and goes "WELL ACKSHULLY, FRANKENSTEIN IS THE CREATOR".
Also,
>Contrary to many film versions, the creature in the novel is very articulate and eloquent in his way of speaking. He can speak quickly and he can enunciate well. Almost immediately after his creation, he dresses himself; and within eleven months, he can speak and read German and French. By the end of the novel, the creature appears able to speak English fluently as well
That sounds pretty "erudite" to me.

>>49934282
This is another reason I think the whole "Diablerie is authorized" aspect is stupid.

>>49934748
It's quite a bit more to keep in mind than a very simple "three=success". I don't know why you don't seem to grasp this. There is literally by definition more complexity.

>>49934785
Doesn't work well. The tone is good, but you die a lot easier in CofD (or WoD) and there's not really any way to get the feel of the dodge and timing heavy combat. If you want to use the theme and setting, you'll be fine (and I've wanted to run a Bloodborne/Innistrad/Van Helsing inspired game before, and maybe I should try doing that on Halloween this year).

>>49934863
Wait, animalism is a "physical discipline" now?

It's not in the same category as obfuscate?

>>49935010
>Degrees of Success
>One Success Marginal (getting a broken refrigerator to keep running until the repairman arrives)
>Two Successes Moderate (making a handicraft that’s ugly but useful)
>Three Complete (fixing something so that it’s good as new)
>Four Exceptional (increasing your car’s efficiency in the process of repairing it)
>Five or More Phenomenal (creating a masterwork)
This is good though? It avoids the "I rolled 4 successes but don't get results that are any better than if I rolled 1 success" problem CofD has.

And I say this as someone who likes nWoD better than oWoD.

>>49934282
Doesn't Auspex 3 let you basically cast Postcognition?

>>49934863
>resilence, vigor, celerity and animalism.

Thats almost all the "common" disciplines minus obfuscate. I mean if you're including animalism in there you might as well include obfuscate. Why make another subsection? Vampires can hide it's within the lore to sneaky little fcks working behind the scenes

>>49935022
>"WELL ACKSHULLY, FRANKENSTEIN IS THE CREATOR"
But Frankenstein is his surname. If the creation considers itself his child, it would be a Frankenstein too. It would just be Adam Frankenstein (or whoever) instead of Victor Frankenstein.

If people are going to be pedants they need to at least be correct.

>>49934785
Primary cons are that WoD's combat system has relatively little depth with respect to physical combat. The inclusion of the spiritual and arcane has always been necessary to make for an entertaining and dynamic fight, you can't just have an exciting time modelling the interactions of some guy with a gun arm and a meat cleaver fighting some kind of whip ninja, rad as said scenario *ought* to be.

>>49935077
Most of those have no real effect, though. I mean, CofD could use more gradation, but that's a thing that's never really bothered me as much as other people. 1-4 is increasingly better, but not *mechanically* so. I do want to see 2e use "exceptional success on three" more often, though. It's much better than things like 9-Again.

>>49933961
>>49935055
>>49934863
>>49935099
>>49935099
2e actually limits it to only the three Disciplines you have in-Clan. Originally it was only the Clan specific ones you needed to drink to learn.

>fcks
You keep doing that, why? You can say fuck on the internet you know. If you're going to say fck you might as well add the u.

>>49935128
I'm aware.

>>49935143
Fighting Styles.
People always forget Fighting Styles.
Although you can always refluff certain supernatural effects to be talent or whatever.

>>49935077
honestly the target 8 diff is already a really good determinate, as it's not an easy number to hit consistently. But yeah if you wanted and it's something I've done.

Onesux = you did it well enough
Three and above = complete intention, you look good doing it
Five it where you did better ENough to get an extra effect.

The only thing 5+ suc does is give you a mechanical reflection of how well the task went. and because it really unlikely to get that many, and its pretty cool when it does.

I mean you can make a house rule about 4+suc. Like give them a beat for confidence

>>49935055
>>49935099
Sorry you are right, Obfuscate can be learned too, I forget about Nightmare and thought that Obfuscate is Nosferatu clan discipline. It's on page 83.

>>49935022
>>Contrary to many film versions, the creature in the novel is very articulate and eloquent in his way of speaking. He can speak quickly and he can enunciate well. Almost immediately after his creation, he dresses himself; and within eleven months, he can speak and read German and French. By the end of the novel, the creature appears able to speak English fluently as well
>That sounds pretty "erudite" to me.

"erudite" tends to suggest a flowery or poetic choice of speech, like the video above where the monster quotes Wordsworth. He could potentially be articulate in colloquial German without being particularly erudite - he just needs to be clear and easily understood. I agree that "eloquent" is a bit more grey.
> "WELL ACKSHULLY, FRANKENSTEIN IS THE CREATOR".
Oh, please. On this board? I can't see this group of well-read and educated badasses making such a simplistic mistake and/or obvious statement. Have a bit of faith in /tg/.

>>49935128
Frank Junior?
Then he builds a lab and creates Frank Junior's Junior?
Then the two of them launch a small fried food empire?

*scribbles notes furiously*

>>49935143
I mean. Fighting Styles make combat more interesting, but WoD has never been that big on combat, even in Vampire's superhero bullshit. Combat can be visceral and bloody, but like I said earlier it won't be like Bloodborne.

>>49935260
The motherfucker makes allusions to the Bible.
>Oh, please. On this board?
Literally yes. Especially on this board of pedantic fuckers.
I mean you're getting on me for using Adam and arguing semantics over the use of the word "erudite"

>>49935304
You can't insult the good name of /tg/! Why, just the other night, when a man insinuated I fucked pigs for a living when I said I preferred oWoD mechanics to CofD's "9 again" rule, I..... hrm. I guess I see your point.

>>49935022

Knowledge is knowing that Frankenstein isn't the monster. Wisdom is understanding that Frankenstein is the monster.

>they just don't explicitly identify it as such

They do. It's Doors. You use a wider means of methods to bring them down, but intimate knowledge of the person and their wants is included in it. The system has used some of the lessons (Doors have clear Monsterhearts influence, among other things), it has just applied them CofD's long-play framework.

If you want something even shorter term than that, then you can use Chases, inflict a Condition through play, or just do a contested roll.

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>>49935250
cool beans. Obfuscate is so utilitarian and iconic with brand. and Nightmare is interesting but takes a bit to wrap your head around. So the mistake is understandable

>>49924941
(you)

>>49935217
>>49935304
I've been trying to get around it for a long while and even fighting styles don't solve the problem. Fighting styles are just extra effects you apply to particular attacks, and given the XP you sank to get them to begin with, you'd damn well better be using them. While many fighting styles do masquerade as providing new options and maneuvers in combat, but in practice you still basically have the choice between doing the thing you are best at, or hamstringing yourself severely for *not even situationally*.

If the fundamental means of attack available to all PCs were a little more diversified and fighting styles gave you two mutually exclusive options, potentially buffing mutually exclusive actions even, at once, then we'd start to SLIGHTLY address the problem.

Simply speaking *oD is still mainly competitive with other systems because of the seamless nature of its non-combat, and its core combat mechanics are mainly strong by virtue of being unobtrusive and simple rather than being even slightly fun.

As it stands, I've gone 3 campaigns and 10 one-shots trying to solve the puzzle of how to make an exciting and fun combat in WoD, and the answers I've turned up have literally ALWAYS had to involve supers activated abilities or at the very least, the direct involvement of a spirit.

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>>49935010
>Get three suxs.

You make entirely too much of that rule. Again, a single success is typically all that's required with threshold being an optional rule.

And you would know this if you actually read the rules that you talked about.

>Implying CofD doesn't also assign penalties
Well, you're too stupid to remember what your target number is so I shouldn't be surprised.

>>49935022
It's no more complex than most other systems. You are literally bitching about a bog standard "degree of success" rule.

WoD's is also "Success=success but more is better."

None of this wasted successes bullshit.

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>>49935339
>CofD's "9 again" rule
yeah its pretty weak. but just giving out the 8 again rule is really wanky. and after that Rote actions. Rote actions are the bee'sKnees. (reroll failed dice once. effectively add half your pool if you don;t get a blow out.)

So the progression of 9again - 8again - Rote is more or less inline with the system. And even the reverse is understandable. lose explosion dice - ones take away suxs. If you know something is going to place negative dice tricks on your pools, Have that 9- again level can be a nice buffer.

>>49935339
Shifting target number is a really bad mechanic that produces wildly varying effects. 9-Again isn't great, but oWoD is worse. I wouldn't mind dice permutations like dropping the target number to 7--and ONLY down to 7--or double-tens instead of exploding, but stable math is worth it being a little boring.
This is why I said I want to see them do more with giving Exceptional Success on three instead of five as a power.

>>49935345
Doors is a completely different thing. Doors is how much you care about something.
Bonuses to the roll is what would be similar to Strings. Leverage. Social Clues (which is in a different section).
I don't really see Doors as being influenced by Monsterhearts at all, really.

>>49935505
I'm still not really understanding what your problem is. Could you maybe give me an example of what you don't like about Fighting Styles?

>>49935547
>It's no more complex than most other systems. You are literally bitching about a bog standard "degree of success" rule.
Did you quote the wrong thing?
Also, there IS kind of "wasted successes". But it's not like you aren't wasting a roll in D&D when you get 10 over the DC or something.
It's a weird way to look at success to begin with.

>>49935651
>But it's not like you aren't wasting a roll in D&D when you get 10 over the DC or something.
I'm pretty sure in most editions of D&D, beating the DC by a big enough number makes you succeed even better.

Typically it's every 5 points you exceed the DC by, since that would be the next DC up from the one you actually had to beat.

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>>49935547
ok now you're putting words into Anon's mouth

>>49935010 increasing dice pools AND decreasing dice pools. Nothing Implied there

You're just mad cause Anon brought the book rules into it and proved that nwod is a simpler system than old wod.

Does Anon want another chart? Same page as other Anon's

Difficulties
Three Trivial (scanning a small crowd
for a familiar face)
Four Easy (following a trail of blood)
Five Straightforward (seducing some
one who’s already “in the mood”)
Six Standard (firing a gun)
Seven Challenging (locating where
those agonized whispers are
coming from)
Eight Difficult (convincing a cop that
this isn’t your cocaine)
Nine Extremely difficult (walking a
tightrope)

More complexity

>>49935651
Every difficulty in combat defaults to six with certain maneuvers adding difficulty for a higher benefit.

It's out of combat skill checks that that have highly varied difficulties.

>>49935696
There are a few things where every 5 means something better [which for reference is 20% more], but for most things it doesn't matter.

>>49935717
>defaults to six
And the thing about oWoD is that many things shift the default.

>>49935707
Now who's putting words in whom's mouth? I am arguing that there is no meaningful difference between the two in actual play, mainly for the benefit of autismus maximus and retarded vendetta against floating difficulty which (SURPRISE FUCKO) WoD doesn't use in combat either. It's also better in that (pool penalties for wounds, difficulty increases for maneuvers that are, y'know, difficult.) is just a more realistic model.

>>49935651
>Doors is how much you care about something
Doors is more like the barrier a person puts up to new ideas / being talked into something.

Impression is more what you're talking about,
its how quickly can I get this guy to change his mind.

It's basically to stop players from charming a guy to sell them their business

>>49935744
>And the thing about oWoD is that many things shift the default

Want the reward, take the risk. Want to kick for more damage? That's harder than throwing a punch.

>>49935651

Doors and Strings are how characters in either game get social leverage on each other. They're both social leverage systems, they just function differently because one game is a focused emulation of high school politics and paranormal romance, and the other is a generalized modular horror game.

Slapping Strings in as Social Clues isn't really going to have the same effect as regular Strings, both thematically and mechanically.

>>49935843
>Vendetta
Is it a common debate tactic in America to cry victim when losing? Looking at Trump, must be the example to follow

Target Size Difficulty Damage
Medium +1 No modifier
(limb, briefcase)
Small +2 +1
(hand, head, cellphone)
Precise +3 +2
(eye, heart, lock)

Close Combat Maneuvers Table
Maneuver Traits Accuracy Difficulty Damage
Bite Dex + Brawl +1 Normal Str +1 (A)
Block Dex + Brawl Special Normal None (R)
Claw Dex + Brawl Normal Normal Str +1 (A)
Clinch Str + Brawl Normal Normal Str (C)
Disarm Dex + Melee Normal +1 Special
Dodge Dex + Athletics Special Normal None (R)
Hold Str + Brawl Normal Normal None (C)
Kick Dex + Brawl Normal +1 Str +1
Parry Dex + Melee Special Normal None (R)
Strike Dex + Brawl Normal Normal Str
Sweep Dex + Brawl/Melee Normal +1 Str (K)
Tackle Str + Brawl Normal +1 Str +1 (K)
Weapon Strike Dex + Melee Normal Normal Weapon
(A): The maneuver inflicts aggravated damage.
(C): The maneuver carries over on successive turns.
(K): The maneuver causes knockdown.
(R): The maneuver reduces an opponent’s attack successes.
Ranged Combat Maneuvers Table
Maneuver Traits Accuracy Difficulty Damage
Automatic Fire Dex + Firearms +10 +2 Special
Multiple Shots Dex + Firearms Special Normal Weapon
Strafing Dex + Firearms +10 +2 Special
3-Round Burst Dex + Firearms +2 +1 Weapon
Two Weapons Dex + Firearms Normal +1/off-hand Weapon

My thats a whole lot of floating difficulty. Hell I'm going to make a boat out of all the floating.

Oh and dodging a bullet is diff 9 I believe

>>49935880
Yes, but the system by which they represent that difficulty is very complicated for the player to figure out at an "eyeball".

>>49935978
>>49935848
I know how the social maneuvering system works.
"Leverage" is a specific thing within that system.
Clues are understanding a situation or having knowledge about it. Gaining a Clue to represent knowing some aspect of someone that you can use is the kind of thing I'm talking about, much as Strings are often "you learned something about someone" or "you revealed something about yourself".

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>>49936134
Leverage / Clues / String system sounds pretty cool and workable.

Have you checked out CoD's Condition system? Basically you give players exp for working against their best interest. Or has someone already brought that up? Mybad if so.

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>>49935651
>Shifting target number is a really bad mechanic that produces wildly varying effects.
Yeah, but it lead to some unusual bending of the laws of probability. One player I had botched every firearms roll she ever made, and rolled unusually high levels of 10's when she recovered and tried her throwing knives instead.

It made for some fun and unpredictable shit. The idea that rolling three dice should give me roughly one success is great if I want to carefully construct scenarios and BBEG's who are just safely tough enough to be beaten with the illusion of risk, but what if I enjoy reaming a player when they botch doing something so fucking stupid even the other players wince and pinch the bridge of their noses when Brash McGangway reaches for the dice and announces he's using his grappling hook to ascend to the roof of a public building in the middle of the Las Vegas strip, in full view of security staff.

>Oh gee, that's a lot of 1's. Well, you make it up nearly to the top of the 25th story when the cable breaks under your weight. Let's see... roughly 82.5 metres... rolling to soak 1 point for every three metres,,, okay, I'll be generous and round down, so roll to soak 27 points of fatal damage. Guess you're regretting not taking Fortitude, now, hey Lawrence?

inb4 terminal velocity, I wasn't going to let a little thing like realistic physics stop me from annihilating someone that was that eager to drop their entire Coterie in the shit and hadn't bothered to glance at the rulebook.

Anyone want to look over my homebrew oMage to CofD thing?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19qgldbpr75f7iuC97ELCwWk4vSKTrNnj9ayFvOr7A2Q/edit?usp=sharing

>>49936134

>Strings are often "you learned something about someone" or "you revealed something about yourself".

Strings are the manifestations of the emotional hold you have on someone. They may be rooted in things you discover about them or yourself, but they're also created by your direct actions against other people. That's why just making them Social Clues aren't a very good fit, because they're something more emotionally charged than a Clue. With the way you're talking about how you would use things you discovered about yourself or others for a dice bonus, it sounds like you're talking about a system closer to Apocalypse World's History.

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>>49936326

yesyes good gm. Brain storming, how you do that in Nwod? impose a quick draw penalty -3 and hope for a dramatic failer? love the pic btw

>>49936326
>We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the Lupine Vitae began to take hold.
> I remember saying something like "I feel a Conviction roll coming on; maybe you should drive..." And suddenly there was a terrible roar all around us and the sky was full of what looked like tiny versions of Beckett, all swooping and screeching and diving around the car, which was going about a hundred miles an hour with the top down to Las Vegas. And a voice was screaming: "Caine, Father of Blood! What are these goddamn animals?"

>The Archon had also given me $300,000 in cash, most of which was already spent on extremely dangerous stuff. The trunk of the car looked like a mobile Tremere Chantry. We had two bags of AB-, seventy-five pellets of Elder Vitae, five pints of high-powered Lupine juice, a salt shaker half full of ashes, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored eye of newt, toe of frog, gris-gris, widow's tears and also a quart of holy water, a quart of UNholy water, a case of 1211's preloaded with one in the breach, a pint of raw Fae Vitae and two dozen molotov cocktails. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious Thaumaturgy addiction, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.
>The only thing that really worried me was the Fae Blood. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a Kindred in the depths of a fairyland binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon....

>>49936326
>but what if I enjoy reaming a player when they botch doing something so fucking stupid even the other players wince
then you just use dramatic failures

you can't rely on a botch anyways

>>49936310
Yes.
This started because I was pointing out that there's a lot to be learned from the way that Monsterhearts handles social interactions, and how you can use that for CofD.
For instance, you get a "String" (a +1 to future rolls on someone) for doing certain things. Someone might bribe you with a String to get you to do something. Fighting with someone might give a String. It's meant to simulate the back and forth backstabby nature of being a Mean Girl supernatural. But it could work well for more direct Game of Thrones things as well. Though Monsterhearts has it integrated into *everything*.

>>49936326
Your entire post is basically explaining why it was bad, but for some reason you seem to think wild random bullshit is a good thing.

>>49936440
I don't see why they couldn't be Clues. You can use Clues exactly how you described. The system intentionally avoids just having everything be Investigation rolls.

>>49936681
>you can't rely on a botch anyways
Nigga, this is oWoD. You can't fucking rely on anything. You just strap yourself in and start doing drugs.

>>49936690
>Your entire post is basically explaining why it was bad, but for some reason you seem to think wild random bullshit is a good thing.
Because utter predictability and stability means the players can never lose a roll if they have more than 4 dice in their pool. Where's the excitement? Where's the classic D&D critical fumble? This is a fundamental part of the experience, and it goes back to the days of the Good LORD, Gary Gygax Himself. To suggest otherwise is heresy. (hissing) *heresyyyyyyyyyy*

>>49936760
>Because utter predictability and stability means the players can never lose a roll if they have more than 4 dice in their pool
I've rolled 0 successes on 16 dice.
I find the idea of a critical fumble--especially when you're highly skilled--really fucking stupid, and I don't care how ~traditional~ it is, it rarely serves a purpose. I much prefer CofD bribing players to take dramatic failures over having wildly inconsistent core mechanics.

>>49936706
>Nigga, this is oWoD. You can't fucking rely on anything. You just strap yourself in and start doing drugs.
And you can do that with any system.

>>49936842
This. Statistics are nice guideline to build a game around but they aren't a guarantee. That's why chance is a thing.

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>>49932750
>Then, the chosen must shed their mortal coil.

> the chosen must shed their mortal [chaos/turmoil]

This ignorant Shakespeare quoting shit is like thinking "wherefore" means "where".

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>If the service of the Machine was so glorious, the purpose all-consuming, why do demons no longer serve it? The answers are varied. Some speak of a glorious war, incited by a strange signal that promised liberty. Others speak of quiet falls, of learning to appreciate the world not as an expression of the demiurge’s purpose, but a place of things and people beautiful for their own sake. That they love humanity even in its iniquity, and that the only true sin is the treason they have already proudly committed.
>This is their proclamation: to serve God, and to betray all that is good.

>If a hunter can get them talking (or if they think a hunter can offer them something), they’ll say they’re not at war with Heaven. Oh, demons have their legends about a mass insurrection prompted by a voice only they can hear, one that speaks of liberty, hope, and the freedom to smash the material prison the demiurge built. But that’s in the dim past, if it ever happened...

Wait what?

Since when is there a legend of some kind of Lucifer Virus in Demon mythology?

While it could be a lie, why wouldn't this lie be mentioned in core Demon, instead of just in Mortal Remains? Or did I just miss it somewhere in one of the fluff stories?

>>49936842
>I've rolled 0 successes on 16 dice.

FUCK YEAH !^@*!^)#%*!

>I find the idea of a critical fumble--especially when you're highly skilled--really fucking stupid,

Accidents happen when people are under stress, man. Few situations are more stressful than serious combat. Skilled chefs pull critical fumbles on fucking COOKING SHOWS, doing what they do all day every day, because suddenly they've got a ticking clock and an asshole host (Cuthroat Kitchen is a perfect example). Stress, panic, mistake.

> and I don't care how ~traditional~ it is, it rarely serves a purpose.

To make players groan, to make people laugh, to throw a curveball. It's the great humbling equalizer, because the BBEG can fuck it up just as hard (probably harder if they're holding something explosive). It's value is not negated just because you cannot discern a purpose to it.

For all I know, AMBER players are pissing themselves at me AND thee over what complete fucking drooling imbeciles we are that we need *dice* to play a roleplaying game!

> I much prefer CofD bribing players to take dramatic failures over having wildly inconsistent core mechanics.
I've had players that wouldn't budge on that, no matter what I offered them. They want agency. They want to be able to do whatever they want. Oh, I can look at them and say "are you sure?" in a way that implies the "magic potion" is actually hydrofluoric acid, but no, they just *have* to do it and find out for themselves.

Besides, any player with half a brain is going to play you every chance they get to build up a massive dramatic failure payday and crush the BBEG faster than you can say "roll for initiative". It just sounds like a massive cheat code for the game, a way to rob of it all fun and variety. I know I'm going to fucking curbstomp Dracula when we get to the top of the tower, because I've been baiting you to bone me constantly for the last five floors, ST. Eventually I'm just gonna get bored.

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>>49936842
>16 dice pool
Que

I think the system encourages the gm to increase penalties for more dangerous and professional training required work, in time crunch situations. Like rushing it - modifier, no tools - modifier, distracting situations - modifier.

The 9-5 job is basically taking all the time in the world, and having the tools in place, while in an environment that focuses you on the work.

Most adventures/ Stories take place in less than Ideal work places. so justifying taking a die is possible. Most stuff is roughly a -2 dice is for more tricky but still doable. The neg5 modifier is the no-fck-you do or die tasks which shouldn't be possible. (chance die) But because of training and being a badass, (high stats) You have a more reasonable ability to pull it off. Remember the system is designed around 4dice=1sux most of the time. Not to mention the untrained penalty

Like hitting the side of a barn is super easy +2dice but hitting a snipe round half a mile is stupidly complex. -5 at least

>>49937209
>dat pic

AYA NAPA!

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>>49937183
>dramatic failure payday
Que

no I'm serious how does taking a set back give me a payday against the BBEG?

It gives me exp points which I can use to buy things, but thats not an auto win option

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>>49936842
>An event with a 99.99667% chance of occurring is still too random for chrodniggers

You heard it here, folks. Now I get why Aspel loves these games.

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I can't believe nobody else fuckin jizzes their pants when someone critical fumbles. Fucking millenials, I swear. Kids today with your fancy pee-dee-eff files and your mobile computing platforms. You know what we called that in my day? Science fiction! Accessing the giant wellspring of the sum of human knowledge in the palm of your hand, you know what we called that? The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy! I bet none of you greenhorns so much as has a photocopied manual and/or adventure module in a binder! Back in my day we rolled dice they don't even manufacture anymore! Ever see a d100? It's a fucking golf ball with numbers in the dimples! And another thing, you goddamn sperm cells complaining about "shitty oWoD mechanic" this and "piss-poor CofD mechanic" that are a bunch of wet-behind-the-ears newbies that have never known the years of horror, despair and slavery to roll tables that made up Rolemaster. The original Middle Earth RPG? I fucked up a roll to sit in a chair and I DIED!!! Ever see a splinter of bone kill a hobbit from a comfortable cushion?? I fought in Conventions for this country! I bravely finished off the hotdogs in the heating unit when the closing ceremony rolled around! And another thing zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

>>49937381
I laughed uncomfortably hard at this.
>>49937422
and this... oh jesus, it's like if my grandad ran a game store...

>>49937342
>it gives me exp points
oh, this keeps getting better! You mean to tell me there is an *actual*, real, ~mechanic~ in the game allowing a player to play the ST for xp?

They'll just happily Mr McGoo all over your adventure like a cross between John Wayne and The Swedish Chef, straighten up before the final firefight and then cash in to start ratcheting their player's abilities and stats higher than the rest of the party, game by game?

Because, remember, unless you throw your other players freebies as well, that's an advantage the others are never going to overcome. Even if they figure out they can "whoops" their way up the power levels faster than whatever measly xp you usually get for a session, they're never going to overcome the advantage that the first bright young sociopath had.

It's like you guys never had an asshole player before?

>>49937583
and whats the Dramatic Failure PayDay? You are over stating a mechanic you admit you don't understand

>>49936690

>I don't see why they couldn't be Clues. You can use Clues exactly how you described.

Because Strings are a meta-currency whose manifestations are not entirely known until the moment the player spends it, mechanically backed up by one of the choices that the basic rules and Skins provide for the String.

Clues are actual pieces of facts and information, treated as regular Equipment and used accordingly during an Investigation. Using a Clue's element for a dice pool bonus isn't much of a mechanical or thematic equivalent. Doors are closer to what Strings do in the CofD system than a floating Social Clue would be, since it hands out Beats and places Conditions.

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>>49937583
Anon is trying to meet you half way. Maybe you shouldn't >picRelated and explain you point of view instead of ranting and not giving examples

>>49937583

It's a Beat. It's like 1/5th of an XP, that you can get in a lot of other places, like your Aspirations or your Conditions or even just by showing up. Like, sure it would have been a good idea to limit choosing to take a Dramatic Failure for a Beat to one per scene in the rules, but Mr. Beaning your way to ultimate power isn't viable on the actual table.

>>49937929
Cod page 69

Dramatic Failure: Your character fails badly, and things are about to get a whole lot worse. Suffered when you roll a 1 on a chance die. Alternately, ----once per scene----, you can take a Beat in exchange for turning a normal failure into a dramatic failure.

What it says in the rule book

http://theonyxpath.com/endless-ages-excerpt-1-tiger/

I've gotta say, I think the Endless Ages Anthology is a super cool idea. I don't think it's something you can do with anything else other than Vampire, though, or else you're gonna get some really embarrassing stories.

Ok, I just fucking showed up. What is the main point of this weeks edition war?

>>49938017

See, I knew that had to be in there somewhere but I never found the wording. Thank you!

I'm going to go and fix my eyeballs.

>>49937583
I had an asshole player once. I told him not to turn up to the next session. I find it much simpler than tailoring my entire fucking play philosophy around assholes, but maybe your experience is different?

>>49938161

WoD's task resolution system is better than CofD's task resolution system, from what I can tell. Honestly Storypath looks like it's going to be the best of both words: static target number that occasionally shifts due to power level, with the number of successes determining rate of failure/success.

>>49938161
They're arguing over dice. I honestly prefer it to last threads arguing over board personalities.

>>49938196
But they're both fine...

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>>49938165
No worries mate

>>49938196
>>49938210
Do these threads ever not devolve into moronic edition wars?

>>49937583
A once per scene 1/5th of an XP won't let them Mr. McGoo all over until the end where they suddenly turn into Bad Ass. It though is likely to turn into Risa Hawkeye syndrom where once per scene their gun jams yet again on them.

>>49938249

Sometimes they devolve into moronic political wars! Never a dull moment in the WoD/CofD General!

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>>49938161
Which edition is simpler.

three sets of two variables to determine one attack. or one roll with one variable to determine one attack

>>49938314
Right! I had forgotten, silly me.

>>49938314
Deviant will be written completely with the Zie pronoun

>>49938463
NO! Do not start that shit too asshole. That thread was a fucking nightmare

>>49938463

Deviant will exist only in thoughtform. One day, the book will be done, and when you think you want to read it, it will appear in your head, uncut and unchanged from the final version approved by White Wolf.

Its PoD version will be an immense white light that whispers great truths, but only if you can understand Navajo.

>>49938636
What does that even mean? Was there never a Deviant? Is there not even White Wolf? Is this all an illusion?

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Hm, what are the odds of some of the older books being taken off DriveThru after 5th Ed starts to release? I've always planned to collect oWoD as completely as I could some day, and the prices are pretty comprable to many second hand books, but I only own about half the core books and less than five supplements. I just finally got around to ordering HtR.

It was just someone above pointing out they will be pushing 5th. The last thing they will want are stubborn fuckers like me holding off on buying their super speshul new edition and letting it tank in favor of looks that have reviews spaced by several years.

>>49938636
It means their expecting it to be pushed back like Exalted 3E was until the second coming of the Great Eldritch gods.

Does anybody knows if the spirit world change much from forsaken 1st to 2nd? I heard that in 2nd werewolves arent spirit cops anymore, do the corebook explains the whole choir, broods and decants better or in a new way?

>>49939073

I cannot imagine that going over well at all, especially since the community seems to be so frosty towards 5e in the first place.

>>49939479
Forsaken 2e are more like Arizona volunteer boarder watch groups.

>>49939669
Ineffective at combating what they propose to be fighting compared to drones/mages?

I don't actually know if those civvy militias do shit, but somehow it seems like they'd be less effective than an ICE drone.

>>49939701
They do shit. And they don't cost the government anything, down side is police and boarder patrol officers have US immigration laws to follow. Militias do not, so they tend to be more violent than needed and not ask enough questions before marching them back.

>>49939073
Why would they want to REMOVE books they could be selling to people, especially now that they don't need to do print runs?

Print on Demand makes every book profitable.

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>>49940050

Last I looked, albeit a year or two back, the majority of the clanbooks are far cheaper to get from Amazon, and only really worth printing if you absolutely have to have them mint and in bulk. Those $10-15 are cheap, but they sure add up fast. And god help you if you want a 20th Edition but want to go for the best version, because you are already buying a special edition, so why wouldn't you.

$99? Fuck, the super special edition of Sandman, both massive volumes, can be bought for a little more than that if you shop around. And that's a massive run of one of the best comic series' out there. It especially harsh to consider when we are all, generally sat on at least one old edition that is worth maybe $25.

>>49933394
>She could become a private detective, her knowledge of police procedures and law would be invaluable, and it still ties in neatly with a Vigil. Plus, her old buddies on the force could be approached from time to time for information....

You really need to stream or download Blood Ties, a tv series from 2006 about a female ex-cop detective and her vampire partner.

>>49936023
>Is it a common debate tactic in America to cry victim when losing?
Lately it's popular tactic whatever circumstances, because it makes you look as if not punching down.

>>49937583
Tbh writers seem to expect that and exactly for this reason they suggest group beats - put all beats together and then split equally at the end of the game session.

>>49938249
Sometimes it's more like "Let's hate Aspel"