/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

I do a mix of both.

My Children of Gaia then to be ozymandias "peace no matter the cost" kind of characters or just different answers of what peace means. And none are hippies.

My Silver Fangs then to be noble if somewhat flaw.

My Ravnos tend to be the good guys who want to kill all the other vampires.

All my fiannas are just nonredeemable irish bros.

So i tend to highlight aspects of the faction that are there in their books but noone pay much attention to them.

I do a bit of both, depending on the character ideas I have. I couldn't imagine playing a splat playing something totally straight or totally subverted.

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I want to run a Hunter: The Vigil one shot for Halloween that's got a gothic fantasy feel, inspired by things like Innistrad, Bloodborne, and movies like Van Hellsing or Hansel & Gretel. Does anyone have any suggestions for a plot?

I figure something simple like a bunch of monster hunters traveling from one place to go do another thing get trapped in a little town for a few nights and have to deal with some supernatural mystery. But that's about all I can think of, and I'm not sure how to go about it.

I figure they'll talk to the townsfolk, deal with being treated as suspicious outsiders, and do some investigating to uncover the monster that's picking off townsfolk in the night.

>>49941919
>Does anyone have any suggestions for a plot?
Make it simple. Some children are kidnapped by fae. Track them down, and decide if you can trust the changelings you meet who might know a way to help find them! Can you trust these obviously inhuman entities?

>>49941531
I never get tired of playing the "But what if I don't feel like being a fucking monster" character.

A shame that some of the splats, WtF in particular, have mechanical penalties for not going along with the metanarrative.

>>49942395
But one of them turns out to be a loyalist trying to lure the Hunters to Arcadia for their unknowable master.

Responding to last thread:
>>49941764
>In reality, the excuse that 'vitae is everything, to the exclusion of all else' is fucking boring and bad storytelling. Ninety percent of vampire stuff has sensuality and sex tied up with the blood craving, as the feeding is a sex allegory in itself. You could excise all compelling story and roleplay elements using that arguements; the Tremere for instance, should have no interest in magic, too busy guzzling kidnapped apprentice mages at best.
Couldn't you just play it exactly like a sex scene, except with the feeding in place of the actual PIV stuff or whatever? They literally get horny for blood (especially from a particularly enticing vessel), and it does explicitly come with an orgasm for the person being fed from.

>>49941531
>Topic of the thread: Do you ever enjoy subverting expectations or themes of your splat, or are you someone who likes to go whole hog with them?
I did that with my longest-running Mage character, I suppose.

He actually had a pretty good time in Pandemonium, and is desperately seeking Ascension after being thrown back into the Fallen World.

He's figured out that other Mastigos had significantly worse times there and not to tell them about wanting to go back.

An incredibly resilient vampire who purposefully burns away his flesh in combination with his Resilience discipline in order to become a wicked skeleton vampire.

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>>49941531
I enjoy being the most stable, non-fucked up Tzimisce that anyone has ever met. She's the legacy character/childe of another player character who was an escaped shovelhead and never got the whole "I will fleshcraft this man into a giant ass!" indoctrination that other members of her clan got.

Hell. She used to be a cop!

Usually, she just tells people that she's a Brujah...

Requesting (again) the current Mage 2e PDF with the included errata?

>>49942926

You could, but I would have that be the case (for the vampire at least) at midrange humanity, before dropping to monstrous levels, but after peeling a few layers of the normal off - and I wouldn't remove actual sex even then. The fact is these monsters are still supposed to be sympathetic on some level, we are supposed to empathize and get into their head, and having them having a blood fetish so strong there is no place for actual sex just takes away another relatable part of them. Along with deviating from around 90% of their cousins from other fictions, making them yet more alien.

I get the concept, I just don't like it or think it's especially compelling when you put it in a vacuum. It might work well enough for a quick feed. But personally, I prefer the traditional blend.

>>49941531

I'm one of those insufferable thematic purists.

>>49943484
That doesn't mean being a stereotype. I'm sure you're fine with happy goth Moros.

Man, American Horror Story: Hotel is pretty amazing, even if I'm admittedly only four episodes in. Odd that it goes full on with ghosts and the supernatural, and then decides that vampires are virus based but I've yet to find a 'perfect' urban horror yet.

>>49943484
This doesn't square with your idea of Osiris' story being a transwoman thing, desu fampai. Unless you're going to treat CofD on a different standard than Scion, which is fine. We all do that for different lines

>>49943649

I play as close to the thematic cores of CofD lines as I can, with a heavy focus on each game's approach to personal horror. Scion is all about fucking around with and recontextualizing mythology, so it fits.

>>49943484
Get back to the cereal aisle you Count Chocula motherfucker

http://theonyxpath.com/unpacking-a-content-community-and-other-stuff-monday-meeting-notes/

>But now, with the Scion 2e KS Stretch Goal, we have some justification in spending that time now in order to have Community Created Content pay off big time for all of us in the future. And again (I hope you are seeing the pattern here) because we are trying this out with Scion, we can see how well it works and look at The Trinity Continuum, or Scarred Lands for adopting something similar. We can speak to our Creator Owned folks like Fast Eddy Webb about where they might be comfortable with such initiatives. We might even be able to speak to our Swedish overlords at the new White Wolf Publishing about their licensed properties.

>Like I said: it’s the big one, and has so much potential and could have massive impact on how we create and do business. All from a Stretch Goal during a Kickstarter you may or may not have been involved with.

In the future, you might not have to care about whether or not your submission got accepted. I doubt it'll actually happen, but an open license for WoD/CofD just became a non-zero possibility. It'd be a hell of a thing, for sure.

>>49943703

That's never gonna happen through OPP, given that they don't own any of the WoD/CofD games. They can do it with Scion because the rights belong to them.

>>49943710

It could if White Wolf gives the OK. I don't see that happening with One World of Darkness being a huge big deal, but I could totally see them giving the green light to a CofD Open License, because that's not the nest egg they're betting on. Exalted could also be a part of that.

>>49943806
except white wolf doesn't own it either, its paradox who owns the rights to WoD and CofD. Both OPP and WW are only allowed by Paradox interactive to work on and publish works based on the properties.

>>49943989

See, I figured that White Wolf could make that call since they're an independent subsidiary, but I'm no businessman, so I'll take your word on that. No matter what, the whole licensing thing for Scion's gonna be cool, I might get in on that.

>>49943989
No, White Wolf owns the IPs. Paradox owns White Wolf. White Wolf is a separate company that doesn't actually have to answer to Paradox in any meaningful way other than being a subsidiary.

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>>49942439

Hiding in last thread. You may be a coward

>>49941531
omg, love that band. Seriously, go youtube "Here come the mummies"

>>49944391
I post them a few times one day a week. They're the best setting music I can think of, because fuck you they're mummy funk even if tone is all wrong. I don't often get to make a thread starter with them though, probably keeps it from becoming trite.

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Tell me about Shadow Names. What's the significance?

>>49944538
Being the cringest faggot around

>>49944554
I thought it was about having a four-die Yantra.

has anyone even bought kinfolk? its been out for 3 weeks

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>>49943484
Hey, it's >>49943164

How do you think of this character as sort of a Neofeudalist lite? Kind of like the "Don't fuck with my neighborhood" type?
>pic related

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>>49944873
>equipment: flowers given to you by children

>>49944615
Shadow Name (• to •••)
Effect: Your character has a particularly developed magical
persona, and is almost a different person when acting as a mage
than in her mundane life. When purchasing this Merit, determine
the Shadow Name and its symbolism. The character may
use those symbols as a persona tool in spellcasting, worth this
Merit’s dots.

>three dots

>>49945008
you sure corrected her

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>>49941531
Well, my mage has absolutely no interest in ascending, does that count? He's enamored with the mysteries and people of the fallen, and finds it all too interesting to leave.

>>49944538
It's a way to insulate yourself against feedback from your magic in your none magical life.

Hey guys it's a write friend....
Here. Chapter 1 is finished. Still working on chapter 2 and 3.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Xy6Tyjuhs3dyldORdueRHcaoVbbAUmzyVEoquRGET0/edit?usp=sharing

>>49945217
Maybe he should delve into the mysteries of fashion because his clothes suck

>>49945008

Shadow Name can potentially offer a +4 Yantra bonus if the character also possess the Cabal Theme merit.

>>49945303
Ouch, anon.

>>49944538
You need one to keep your Nimbus from fucking with your family.
You choose one you like, because Fate fucks with you in ways in keeping with your Shadow Name.

As they say in the book, don't go by the name Odin if you want to keep both eyes. Or Merlin if you don't want a Demon to steal your father's mind, body and soul.

>>49945746
Its' why I went with Coyote because sanity is over rated.

>>49945842
>sanity is over rated
Says someone who's likely never suffered clinical depression, or worse.

>>49945842

By all means, give me yours, buddy.


Coyote isn't insane. The whole point of a trickster is that they're doing the things they do intentionally.

>>49941919
Ok, so how about this one?
The players have never met before. They all recieve written invitations to attend the Castle of Saint Germaine, a (fictional) castle set somewhere in your setting's mountainous, treacherous region. The journey to Hellfire Pass takes several days through picturesque mountainside and snowy valleys, until they meet each other at a 4-way crossroads at midnight. There, the coach of the mysterious Count of Saint-Germaine awaits them, and takes them at break-neck speed to a crumbling castle high on a peak. This gives them the opportunity to talk a little about themselves, until they discover that each of them had something in common - their grandparents were all prominent in the court of a certain King to the east...

Little do they know that the portcullis will seal behind them, trapping them inside the Castle. The Count is an immortal philosopher, alchemist and enlightened renaissance man, he's had 80 years to plot his revenge and build this death-trap full of old labs, failed experiments, alchemical blasphemies, puzzles and undead.... No-one shows up the Count of Saint Germaine. No-one.

The mood should be a bit like the original Dracula novel - trapped, trying to escape with soul and sanity intact.

(based on a real nigga)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_of_St._Germain

I mentioned a few days ago that I was working on my setting based on a VtR/VtM hybrid. I'm having trouble to find suitable conditions for the Malkavian bane and something a little more constraining for the Lasombra bane. Should I tweak 1ed derangements or make brand new conditions?

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>>49946199
fck yeah, this sounds awesome sign me up Anon

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>>49945915
Coyote is pretty insane. I mean, he's not Anansi level "I have no idea what I'm doing I'm making this all up as I go along", but Coyote is basically what Joker would be like if he weren't quite a murdering sociopath.

Trickster stories come with a moral lesson (occasionally at the expense of the trickster themselves), but more often than not the Trickster is still trying to laugh at someone else's misfortune.

Or, you know, they're just insane because they know the ridiculous and improbable truth of the world.
I really need to start reading Gunnerkrigg again

>>49946199
>The mood should be a bit like the original Dracula novel - trapped, trying to escape with soul and sanity intact.
The fact that Dracula as a novel isn't entirely like the prologue is one of the great disappointments in life.

>>49946239
I was actually about to write up a Malkavian 2e idea. Also a Kyasid and Tzimisce 2e.
You might want this http://theonyxpath.com/the-shadow-and-the-asp/
And for good measure:
http://theonyxpath.com/lonely-together/
http://theonyxpath.com/the-jaws-of-the-beast/

>>49945217

Damn, was that a commission? I'd take my money back, the posing is so stiff and the coloring so bland.

Also I agree with >>49945303 He looks like a british hobo, or a doctor incarnation that was so dopey and embarrassing the doctor never bothered to acknowledge him.

>>49946506
>Using Joker and Coyotee as a basis for claims of "insanity"
Joker's a sociopath, and Coyote just enjoys fucking with people.
Neither are truly insane in any real consideration of the term.
Real mental illnesses are messy, and they fuck with you in horrible ways that generally aren't conducive to representation in a visual medium.

So people take the easy way out and just go with someone with different priorities, and a conscious lack of disregard for social cues.

>>49946622
No, my character is insane just like me you just dont understand (me)

>>49946648
Gunnerkrigg is worth getting back to though. Kat's going full God-Machine.

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>>49946622
Sociopathy isn't a mental illness?
Also, most depictions of both Coyote and the Joker portray them as having very clear mental illnesses. In some cases the Joker hallucinates, or clearly knows he's in a comic book. He spends most of his time in a psychiatric institute (although Batman comics treat restorative justice and rehabilitation as the well intentioned evil of naive hippies Goddamnit why does no one else hate Dark Knight Returns Frank Miller is a fuckhead).

Coyote too is often seen as being too strange and alien and different from the normal folks, too flighty and aware. No, he's not mentally ill in the way that a schizophrenic is, but he's also a fictional character, just like the Joker. Both of them are trickster characters who's goal is to make everyone see the world in a skewed way, because to see the world in a different light is liberating, or at least leads to new insights. And the whole "mental illness correlates to genius" isn't exactly false (it's just tends to be a lot more depressing in real life, and often ends with singing a solo with a shotgun instead of a microphone).

>>49946681
That one wasn't me, but I'll keep that in mind all the same.
The Great Secret and The Stone are probably two of the best back to back chapters.

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>Vampire declared dead
>Goes into voting station
>Shows ID, still on the voter roll

Who does he vote for, and what is the fall out?

>>49946769
Clinton.

Dead people always vote democrat.

>>49946769
Nixon.
The Government just chalks it up to another jackass being smart.

>>49946748
>why does no one else hate Dark Knight Returns
Many do, however that specific Doctor was represented just like Harleen Quinzel was.
A money hungry fraud who takes high profile patients on to TV shows to promote his own career and book.

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>>49946866
At least in the movie he wasn't portrayed as a fraud, he was portrayed as too deluded to realize that he was being played by his patient. He seemed to think he'd cured the Joker with his hippy therapy. Between that and things like Carrie Kelly's parents being peacenik druggies, and the way Batman sways the Mutants by beating the shit out of their leader, there's a very asinine "might makes right" undertone. We're all pansies too nervous and shy to do what needs to be done, and we need Batman to be a totalitarian ubermensch who protects us hippies with FORCE and VIOLENCE.

At least this was years before Frank Miller would write Batman actually *kidnapping* kids.
Or pic related, which is just hilarious.
Or that time he painted everything yellow and offered Green Lantern a glass of lemonade.
Goddamnit why is Frank Miller paid money to write things.

>>49947080
Aspel do you have to complain about this literally everywhere you chat?

>>49947080
You know how every writer's got their angry young man novel. DNR is like Frank's OLD Angry young man Novel, and then he just never stopped

>>49947080
>Goddamnit why is Frank Miller paid money to write things.
He isn't? DC basicly pretends that he never existed.

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Huh. Well, just finished American Horror Story: The Hotel. That was... certainly an ending. I suppose looking at the theme that has run through all the shows so far, it couldn't really end any other way, but... can't say I like what started off as a fairly compelling Vampire story turning so... Wraith.

I was also surprised to find I found image related to be the best characters.

>>49947257
Is that a Nosferatu from Kindred: The Embraced?

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>>49947276

No, just the most awesome transsexual I've seen in a recent horror show.

...Or do you mean the middle aged woman? Because she turned out pretty compelling too. Exactly the sort of character you would find in World of Darkness.

I overall really enjoyed it. I highly recommend it; I admit I didn't give Season 2/The Asylum a fair shake yet (i will, now i have sated my vampire boner, as I love Demon) but Season 1/The House and Season 5/The Hotel are some of the best and most atmospheric urban horror I've seen in a long time. If you've played Bloodlines (and who here hasn't) I can basically say both seasons feel like the hotel level.

>>49947320
Nosferatu in Kindred were all bald. That was their clan schtick.

Why are a bald transsexual and an old lady shooting people?

>>49947080
That might have to do with the fact that you're a fucking pansy, Aspel.
>>>/d/

>>49947080
The guy hasn't written or drew a good comic since the 90s. He's kinda a dead horse in more ways then one.

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How would you handle Malkavia in Requiem 2e?

>>49947514
Fuck off Aspel

>>49947544
He won't.

Should I invite my Cabalmates to my wedding?

What nwod books talk about twilight and the shadow

>>49947257
I heard Hotel was the worst of the seasons? I've recently started watching and just finished the Asylum which I enjoyed a lot more than Murder House. Is Coven any good?

>>49944873
Man I miss these things. I dont remember the new books having character concepts. Either that or they just arent as interesting

>>49948286
No. Not sample characters, like that. They often have antagonist sheets, but outside of an SAS or the Ready Made Characters, you won't see that sort of thing.

>>49948307
That sucks. All of the premade character concepts were awesome. Inspired me a few times too.

>>49948320
I get more inspired by the lesser examples scattered throughout the fluff.

>>49947684
Book of Spirits

>>49946769
Trump.
Who else would a manipulative blood sucking parasite with low moral standards vote for?
When Trump loses, he demands a recount. Several dead people are discovered to have voted, leading to widespread accusations of voter fraud.

>>49947362
can someone doctor an image of a Nosferatu to give them Trump's hair? I need it for reasons.

>>49948320
Hey, remember the Nosferatu Luchador out of 2nd Ed Masquerade?

Same book, the whiny goth guy?

>>49948966
yeah those were all cool

The most subverted splat I ever had was an Australian Aboriginal Tzimisce Ancillae called "Darren". He hid his fleshcrafted and upgraded double-kneecap legs behind a red tartan blanket and happily wheeled himself around in a wheelchair until he needed to terrify, intimidate, chase or kill, at which point he'd pull himself up to his full 8 feet or so, straighten out his various kneecaps and go faster than Oscar Pistorius.

I always thought it was a contradictory assertion, a veritable True Scotsman, that all Tzimisce had to be aristocratic central european bastards when the Sabbat explicity creates shovelheads wherever they go.

>>49948966
I've always hated those. It feels like the only way to play oWoD is be a stereotype or subversion. There's not really a "neutral" way to play. It's also jarring to see such comical concepts as Nosferatu luchador and martial artist Toreador when elsewhere the book acts like those would be unacceptable.
The Tzimisce ghetto lord on the other hand is cool. Plays to type while not being a stereotype.

>>49949052
>I always thought it was a contradictory assertion, a veritable True Scotsman, that all Tzimisce had to be aristocratic central european bastards when the Sabbat explicity creates shovelheads wherever they go.
My very narrow understanding is that those wouldn't be Losambra or Tzimisce because those two clans are too important to embrace willy nilly and risk letting the secrets of their blood (i.e. kool powerz) fall into the hands of the Camarilla or Independants, and that they'd be Gangrel, Nosferatu, or Caitiff/Pander.

According to the Wiki, Revised Sabbat don't do that at all, except special circumstances.

I strongly dislike purposefully subverting expectations and themes.

A Thyrsus who focuses on Mind to try and seek the "beast" mentality in humans suppressed by centuries of development, to create the ultimate predator? Man with all of his mental faculties, but unrestricted by his pathetic and unproductive social compulsions. An advanced primitive. Aprex predator in the jungle of his mind.
I like that. It's a nice take on the Thyrsus perspective, incorporating strongly their inferior Arcanum, but remaining true to the original direction.

A Mastigos who believes in hope, truth, destiny, second-chances, that people are inherently good, that your dark impulses can be ignored, and that God is looking down on us with compassion and hope? Fuck that contrarian bullshit. Mastigos awaken to the Hell of Pandemonium, not the fucking Kingdom of Celestial Spheres.

>>49949238
It's only a subversion because someone else is trying to dictate to you how you should roleplay your own character, anon.
OWoD was rife with "X is Y and always Y, and doing anything besides Y is doing it WRONG", and that set my teeth on edge from the word go.

>>49949269
>someone else is trying to dictate to you how you should roleplay your own character
That's generally an excuse I've heard from people who make horrible, horrible characters.
Restriction on character options breeds creativity, it makes you think about how to move within the constraints which have been placed on you.
And makes straining against them MEAN more.

>>49949238
You do know that Mastigos aren't actually all evil bastards, right? You could just as easily be a Mastigos who's Gnosis reveals to her that despite it all, people are still good. They all have sin, but that doesn't make them sinners. More than that, everyone is connected, and everyone's presence effects those around them in nuanced ways.

>>49949269
He's not really wrong, though. I mean, I don't agree with his conclusions, but it's unrealistic to play certain character types in certain ways. oWoD also showed repeatedly in their sample characters how playing against type was perfectly fine, but that still caused problems like I pointed out >>49949144; it always felt random and intentionally "look how different I am".

A Mastigos who believes in hope, truth, destiny, second-chances, and that people are inherently good, that your dark impulses can be ignored, and that God is looking down on us isn't impossible or entirely unreasonable (though as her Gnosis raises that might become harder... or she might truly see that we are all One under the weight of Sympathy). But just being a happy go lucky Mastigos with no explanation is.

And it's completely unrelated to magical supernatural concepts, either. Playing a character who's backstory is a congaline of rape, dead parents, and face-punches isn't likely to have a happy idealistic outlook. A loving father of three is unlikely to constantly brood like Batman. Many things are 'out of character'. And far too many people use the excuse of "stop telling me I'm playing my character wrong" to play characters that are unrealistic. Often ridiculously skilled characters who are played as incompetent, like soldiers who jump into stupid combat situations instead of thinking tactically or keeping a level head.
These are the sort of players who turn up in That Guy threads. Trout, from 2D Storytime, comes to mind.

>>49949369
>You could just as easily be a Mastigos who's Gnosis reveals to her that despite it all, people are still good.
Not without being an unbearable Sue.
Mastigos literally beat down their Demons to grasp their Awakening.
And as a result, their powers let them see deep into the core of people.
People are lazy, vice ridden, and selfish at the core, and most people act on these principles.
You can talk all day about "deep down" and the "true self", but what's more true than what you do?
And people do a LOT of bad shit.

The Mastigos path shows you everyone's weeping mental sores, and the pustules on their soul they don't want to parade in public.

To push all that aside, and try and argue for a hopeful, benevolent and compassionate view of the world, in the face of all that Warlocks experience? That'd be pretty fucking hard to pull of with any degree of credibility.

Leave that to the Obrimos specialising in Mind.

>>49949428
Well... I got a bit too cynical there.
Mastigos will still find the occasional brilliant gem, or diamond in the rough.
But you can see where I'm coming from.

The world of CofD is a horrible, shitty place, and you can only blame the various big bads for so much of that.

>>49949428
>Mastigos literally beat down their Demons to grasp their Awakening.
One of the sample Awakenings involves zero demons and is all about the way that mental illness can push you away from people and make you feel cut off from the world.
Not all Mastigos even focus on Mind to begin with, and Space can be very hopeful. It's also not unreasonable for someone to see that souls are tarnished and everyone is drenched in sin, but that people are still ultimately good, if flawed.

Also, my point is that a Mastigos can still be idealistic, not necessarily that their Gnosis or Awakening will reveal to them sunshine and rainbows and no darkness.

I mean, I played a Moros (admittedly in 1e) who was very concerned with life and keeping people safe and away from death. He saw the cold grey of Stygia and he wanted to keep people from it. Another Moros I played was primarily an Alchemist, and the way she saw the world was as change. Positive change. Growth. That even as everything eroded and would become naught but ash, the world could still be transmuted from lead to gold to even purer platonic forms.

Essentially I agree with >>49949238, I just feel like you're being too arbitrarily limiting.

>>49945915
Depends on the trickster. Coyote of the Navajo people was insane. Oh sure he used trickery deliberately but he was cruel, combative, and hateful. He was made of the stuff left over from creation, that had spoiled in the bottom of the creators pouch.

Sure he was wise, but he was also the father of witch craft, curses, and would bestow the blessing of insanity on humans. It was the changing woman that kept him in check and knew how to get him to be a positive force in the world. Without her he would be the perfect archetype of a left handed mage.

>>49949850

Doesn't that just make him a dick instead of insane?

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>>49949973

>>49941531
I do quite a lot but it's partially just because I run Hunter and i want to keep my players on their toes, I want them asking "So is this blood sucking beasty actually a vampire or are we gonna bring fire and stakes to a fight with a chupacapra or some equally dangerous outlier?"

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The plot begins.

>Universe: Classical World of Darkness

Are you a bad enough dude to preserve the Impressionist Paradigm before the Minimalistocrats and their Kindred lackeys bring Stasis to the world?

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Did they really wear ear rings in lupus?

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I sense a lot of bestiality in Scooby Wolf's future.

>You will never fuck Atamajakki in the butt to make her feel like a real woman
Lads, how do I deal with this feeling

>>49950078
>this fucking dialogue

Holy shit, why his this so bad?

>>49950109
>Grag is werewolf Doge?

>>49950236
>cWoD
>smartphone
Pretty advanced for pre-2004.

Why are we reading this terrible webcomic again?

>>49950358
I don't know. Let's listen to music instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5mYiIhzyos

>>49950358

Apparently the comic is from 2016, so I assume it's W20's setting.

I mean, if you want something different, we could do another alt.games.white-wolf dive.

>>49950445
Nah, it's fine. I was just wondering if there was any specific reason it was being posted other than '"it's garbage".

>>49949144
>My very narrow understanding is that those wouldn't be Losambra or Tzimisce because those two clans are too important to embrace willy nilly [and lose control over access to key Disciplines]

This was 15 years ago with 2nd Ed. There was nothing in either the Player's Guide to the Sabbat or the Storyteller's Guide to the Sabbat to suggest that.

Also, it wouldn't matter anyway, because Revised era - which probably bought in that bit about picky siring habits - had that thing about drinking another vampire's vitae to train the 1st dot of a clan discipline, and the Sabbat sat around sharing cups of blood like teenagers with their dad's liquor cabinet. The entire Sabbat could probably train Vicissitude if they wanted. Hell, the True Black Hand wants to exterminate the entire Sabbat for that reason.

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>>49949144
>>49949238
Shovelheads still happen, it's just not -every- Sabbat Vampire. The creation rites are now just a separate thing from a mass embrace and the Tzimisce and Lasombra Kick into the pool of random vampires as well.

>>49950047
Does that woman have no arms? Also this is bad but you can also see where the author is trying harder things, like the joke from the worrying older werewolf trailing into whitewolf there whining. It isn't funny, it isn't inventive, but in better hands it could have at least mustered a giggle m8. Maybe one day that better set of hands will be their own.

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I fucking love Grag

>>49950028
Are you a bad enough dude to Umbral travel to New York and out a pedophile ring on national television, because fuck the rights of victims?

So was the pseudo-military werewolf teams and missions thing a WoD deal or just the author. "Here's your mission!" seems like a really weird start to a story about werewolves.

>>49950841
The second Get of Fenris tribebook starts with a pack of american Gets fighting against a pack of nazi Gets in WWII

So my guess is maybe

>>49950639
What's with the antagonism towards koldun? Are they a bloodline of Tzimisce?

>>49950841
It makes more sense when you consider them all part of a social heirachy. The young pups do what the grizzled old wolves get them to do, because the tribal elders set the agenda for the Sept. Certain tribes - the Get, Glasswalkers and Shadow Lords - could concievably form packs that more closely resemble a mercenary outfit, but that would really end up looking like the first Predator movie, if Jesse "The Body" Ventura was able to shift into Crinos and still keep the hat.

>>49950091
>At least I barely remind
Is this author not a native english speaker? A lot of these errors are weird. There's some misspellings with just a letter off, but most of them are just plain wrong but almost right word.

>>49948109
Coven was awful and the ending was stupid. I've heard good things about hotel, but until you confirm you want to see it, your best stopping point is after Asylum.

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>Daily reminder to cast the right spiritual gifts so that your trenchcoat and mirrorshades grow to match your Crinos-form size

>>49950931
>Is this author not a native english speaker?
Most WoD players aren't.

>>49950109
Grag is the fucking hero of this.

>>49950943
Coven's ending just went all M. Night so yeah, that kind of sucked. Still, I enjoyed the rest of it - it felt like Melrose Place with WOD Sorcerers (although given the powers were a bloodline thing, it's almost like.... dare I say it.... WOD Gypsies!!!)

Hotel is awesome. Lady Gaga sells it, you'll want to have blood fetish sex after you see the first episode. The soundtrack is all 80's style synth and goth anthems, the hotel itself wouldn't be out of place in Bioshock's Rapture if it wasn't in such good condition, and characters from the previous seasons show up, including one of the witches from Coven getting utterly fucked up. You cannot lose. Unless you're a recovering coke addict, then certain scenes might make you uncomfortable.

>>49950923
Werewolves vs. Predator when, Fox?

>>49950943

I hear the new one, Roanoke, is pretty good.

>>49950981
Hats off to the woman who got the rights to translate oWoD and Mind's Eye to Spanish. Apart from the insane amounts of potential profit, she and her crew are at the nexus of their favourite hobby for their entire language!

>>49950729
That's because he's the best character.

>>49951064
Roanoke is like the first season, if you didn't get to see the Wraiths talking to each other.

The whole show is presented like Syfy's "School Spirits" - people talking about their experiences, cutting to "re-enactments" of what they saw. Nods to Blair Witch, of course.

>tfw you will never pay for premium pass
>tfw you don't care about captcha
>tfw you treat it like a mini-game

>>49941685
So you just ignore the main theme of each of the factions and act all smug about? Great, you sound like a blast.
>>49950639
From what I remember of Shovelheads and such is that there are small amounts of vampires created 'normally' outside of crusading times, but the majority of Sabbat are shovelhead veterans who are given their first rites after the battle is over?
>>49950512
Yeah, the Sabbat was always portrayed kind of inconsistently, where the 'true sabbat' such as the Keepers and Fiends are put above the others and said to be rare, but when you read all the setting information you see that there are indeed hastily embraced members of those clan, and that due to the...uh- democraticish nature of the Sabbat, as well as the fact that they see themselves at being at war, they're often encouraged to share their disciplines around with their Packmates in an attempt to foster better group tactics. I mean hell, it could even be a pack-by-pack basis.

>>49951045
Coven definitely had potential, it was just wasted potential and it seriously began to unravel past the half-way line where it felt like they were just making it up as they went.

>>49950889
No...

Koldunic sorcery is their in-house brand of sorcery. It's just always learned as an out of clan discipline. And in this case, it's just jealousy.

>>49951115
I would say that it's less than half to maybe half. Also, the "True Sabbat" thing isn't based on clan but whether or not you've been fully initiated into a pack.

Any vampire that hasn't undergone the creation rites isn't truly a vampire, to their way of thinking, and that's why they can go around shovelheading people and not feeling bad about it.

>>49951176
If it's an in-house type of blood sorcery, why is it learned as an out of clan discipline?

>roll for paradox backlash

>>49951208
That was the same rationale behind the Goa'uld eating their young in Stargate SG1. They hadn't blended with a host yet, so they hadn't been "born". *

> * eating fetal tissue is generally frowned upon by food safety standards.

>>49951064
It was just as good as the first and second seasons, but suddenly went (somewhat) bad. I feel like the writers can't maintain que quality of the show throughout episodes. Still Roanoke is worth watching (aside from some ghost bullshit it is indeed pretty good).

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In the interests of fostering relations with our Chronicles brethren, I, an avowed and unabashed Old World Oldfag, present this diagram of the Mage: Awakening spiritual landscape.

May this thread always be as peaceful and productive as it has been for the last 12 hours.

>>49951431
>proclaim peace
>post a troll image

Fuck you Wodfag

>>49951431

I'll admit, I'd like to see someone take a crack at a 2e version of that, but by the time the edition's done, it's probably just be vague scribbles and "??????????" in between various places.

Also, new Endless Ages preview: http://theonyxpath.com/endless-ages-excerpt-2-the-becoming/

>>49951431
No, never.

Gas the old worlders, race war now.

>>49951448
>Thank you, oh brother from across the gulf of floating difficulties

You are welcome, friend. May the hairs above your genitals never become red and inflamed.

>>49951431
Except this is some player/ST's personal opinion of this, and not at all reflected by the actual books due to the toolbox nature.

>>49951669
>I appreciate the gift you have granted us, friend

Thank you, Child of the 9 Agains. May you highlight the numbers 8 - 10 on your d10 with a steady hand and a bright yet tasteful colour.

>>49951353
Because it didn't originate within the clan. It was taught to them by spirits of the land in Eastern Europe.

>>49951686

I've actually got some old CofD dice back when White Wolf sold those. Probably some of the last batch, in hindsight. I wish I had gotten the ones for all the lines instead of just Mortal.

>>49951746
I have the Requiem ones. The numbers below 8 are black and muddy as fuck on a red granite background.

Anyone playing Werewolf - the apocalypse, or knows the rules well? I want to include a werewolf character in my vampire the masquerade story, but cant find a short summary of their combat rules and god damn are there many rules.
Questions:
>How much damage do they soak automaticly?
>How much of their damage is aggrevated?
>What are the aproximate stats of a young, inexperienced Werewolf, lets say a Metis.

>>49941531
I like to play the themes 90% straight, with the odd exception that becomes apparent only on closer look. For example: Hacker-Nosferatu, Information Broker and weird guy, secretly running a multimillion dollar IT company and playing high politics while acting goofy to distract everyone.

>>49952229
Just build them with appropriate Vampire Disciplines.

>>49952229
>How much damage do they soak automaticly?

None. But they can soak all damage but that caused by silver or toxic waste.

>How much of their damage is aggrevated?
Any of it that they do with their fangs and claws but body armor can still soak that.

>What are the aproximate stats of a young, inexperienced Werewolf, lets say a Metis.

A Metis will start with 3 Gnosis, infertility and one disfigurement/deformity.

Stat line is as follows:
7/5/3
13/9/5
5 Backgrounds.
Three level one gifts, one each from breed, auspice and tribe.

Auspices:
Ragabash - 1 rage
Theurge - 2 rage
Philodox - 3 rage
Galliard - 4 rage
Ahroun - 5 rage

>>49952308
Thanks a lot!

Anyone got any sources of coupons for DTRPG?

>>49951115
>So you just ignore the main theme of each of the factions and act all smug about? Great, you sound like a blast.

oh dear, sorry for triggering your autism. Tell me all about how your hippie children of gaia are so much better.

>>49952229
Listen, oWoD is like ghostbusters; shit can blow up if you cross the streams.

The easiest way of coping is to go with the rules provided in Revised that frame werewolves in terms of Vampire and it's Disciplines.

>ignore tribe, because distinctions like tribe are lost on Kindred
>ignore breed, because who the fuck cares about his troubled background when he's ripping the Caitiff's arms off?
>2 - 6 actions per turn, like free Celerity
>keep transformations to full wolf, full human or Crinos
>roll for Frenzy like a Brujah
>when frenzying, ignore wound penalties
>heal 1 health level a turn
>only fire, silver, teeth and claws of other splats do agg. damage
>agg. damage heals at mortal healing rates
>all damage, including agg. soakable with Stamina
>no half bashing damage (they have functional organs)
>powers fuelled by Gnosis, like Blood Pool.
>Gnosis recovered through long meditation or pacts with spirits
>Lupines can travel invisibly through "spirit world", like Obfuscate but better coz they go through walls
>can't soak silver
>can do equivalent of Thaumaturgy rituals with time and prep

And some sample stats:
>ADOLESCENT WEREWOLF
>Attributes: (human)
>Str 3 - Dex 3 - Sta 3
>Cha 2 - Man 2 - App 2
>Per 3 - Int 2 - Wits 3
>
>Abilties:
>Alertness 3, Animal Ken 2, Athletics 2, Brawl 3, Crafts 2, Dodge 2, Firearms 2, Intimidation 3, Investigation 2, Leadership 1, Linguistics 1, Melee 2, Occult 1, Stealth 3, Survival 3
>
>"Disciplines": equivalent to Celerity 3, Potence 1, Protean 4
>
>Humanity: 7
>Willpower: 5
>Gnosis: 4

If a vamp clinches successfully and actually drains the Lupine, the Lupine has the equivalent of 25 Blood Points, it's such rich cunt shit that every swallowed BP is worth 2 in the Pool. Every BP of Lupine juice (remember, comes in 2's) increases the difficulty to resist frenzy by 1. Also, when they're on the stuff, Kindred become paranoid, short-tempered, even Deranged for as long as it's in their system.

>>49951526
Hmm. I might just do that, actually.

Then again, I would get lynched for putting Changeling!Arcadia as a Lower Depths realm.
Also, for not marking out the Supernal Realms as actual places. They aren't. They are just pieces of Code.

>>49952602
>(cont)

Finally we come to Auspice. The easiest way to handle it is just to grant access to Discipline equivalents that work for the archetype.

>scouts - Obfuscate
>shamans - Thaumaturgy
>bards - Melpominee
>lawkeepers - Presence
>warriors - Fortitude

>>49952437
They aren't but neuther is boiling down the Tribe to a specific stereotype. Organizations like Clans, Tribes, etc, fubction best when they've got some breadth. Thats generally why the Revised editions of them are better, because they realized they can cover more ground.

>>49952753
>Thats generally why the Revised editions of them are better, because they realized they can cover more ground.

Riiight except that the only worthwhile thing from say the CoG tribebook revised that most ignore was that part when it says that the definition of peace is a fundamental part of the cogies.

Or revised SFs that made then not all furry malkavians.

Or the fianna revised that....that....no, sorry it just made them drunken bros. Well all nation need their disposable retards to throw at the wyrm.

>>49952753
This, pretty much. Come up with a character concept before you think about Tribe/Clan/Tradition, then layer that on top. Wraith was better in that way, membership in the Legions flowed directly from character concept (i.e. how they died)

>>49952832
Buddy, he was talking about "general treatment" of the Tribes in Revised, not the Tribebooks. I don't think there's a single Tribebook or Clanbook that's really worth the money, unless you're such a hardcore fan you have a Bone Gnawers T-shirt or something.

>>49952427
Does such a thing exist? I can't imagine our Nordic Masters not screwing us for every penny.

>>49952912
DTRPG runs their own coupons sometimes, usually around holidays.

Prometheans don't lose control of their muscles while being electrocuted do they?

So a promethean could drag an enemy onto the third rail in a subway station and heal while roasting it?

>>49952602
Again, thanks for the summary! Damn, I actually had to make a "non-combat" focused werewolf just so my players won't get oneshotted and have a chance to run away. You're right about ignoring tribe and breed, the players wont know much except it wants to kill them and its far to strong for them.
Now, for the spirit walking I need some kind of reason for the werewolf NOT to. Either some kind of plot device or I just will play as if he cant.

>>49952912
Paradox games are on sale a lot, they sell a lot of DLC and they know they can wring more money out of you if you think you're getting a bargain.

Finally got a copy of MET: Apocalypse. Now to read the insanity...

>>49947362

Watch the show. I doubt you'll be disappointed. It's on Netflix or I'm sure you can find it elsewhere. For a start off, it's mostly Urban Horror that's actually fucking in a city, not that a great deal occurs outside the hotel.

Speaking about comics, here's a Changeling the Dreaming one

https://tapastic.com/episode/323494

>>49952843
Bingo, exactly what I was drivong at, the Legions and your Guild were more akin to a careeer choice than a worldview, and whilst hardcore or long-term members would have a certain party line they'd tow, most were just punching the clock and didn't seem membership as necessarioy defining them entirely.
>>49952832
>blah blah blah, complaints about specific books.
Okay, i'm talking about the conception of the character of the Clan/Tribe/Convention/Traditoon as a whooe, 1st ed Malks were funny and silly, Revised malks were mad visonaries who sometimes played 'pranks'. One has more design space than the other, this is easy.

Does anyone know why they changed the name of the Malkavians in Requiem?

>>49954591
... not sure if I should answer seriously but the Malkavians as they were in OWoD don't exist in Requiem. That's why.

>>49954591

To prevent a direct Malkavian/Malkovian comparison, most likely. Since the Ventrue, Gangrel, and Nosferatu were mostly the same, the developers probably thought that they could get away with using those verbatim. Malkovians are just different enough to justify a name change, though I suppose having actual Malkavians come back via Malkavia probably put the kibosh on people play Malkovians.

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>>49951448
It's not a troll, just not official. Here's mine. I could stand to redo it and add a few more things.

>>49951746
>>49952070
Changeling ones are pretty good. I still have about 8 of them, even after all these years. I wish I got to use them more. They've gotten more use as Magic life counters.

>>49952660
>Melpominee
What the fuck is that?

>>49954715

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Melpominee

It's the Discipline that the Daughters of Cacophony have.

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I don't suppose that Bloodlines pulls characters from any particular book or is mentioned in any later material, being just a game. Still, to me it practically IS the WoD for all intents and purposes. It's what started my fandom and made me dip my toe in.

I know Jack is an established character, and Becket, but I don't know about others.

>>49954758
Those are the only two canon NPCs, everyone else is built specifically for the Bloodlines game.

>>49954795
Also, none of the characters are SPECIFICALLY mentioned, but the whole LaCroix and exploding penthouse stuff is reference obliquely in the Gehenna novel and a couple of other places, but that's about it.

Halp. I want to like CofD, but cWoD Demon is my favorite splat, and the whole God-Machine thing and robot-Angels/Demons thing sour the entire thing for me. Can anyone help sell it to me? Please? I actively want to change my feelings on the matter. I'm too much of a traditionalist.

>>49954758
Same for me. I was introduced to the world of darkness before playing the game, but it was the videogame what made me grow interested and try to play the roleplaying game.

>>49955088

If the cyberpunk-espionage fusion angle really turns you off, then there's probably not much that can sell you on it. It's probably one of the best spy games on the market along with Night's Black Agents, if that helps.

>>49949946
Sociopathy is a form of insanity.

>>49955088
Well, to start with, everything is pretty much optional. You can completely ignore any Demon/God-Machine stuff if you want. You can ignore any Mage stuff or Werewolf stuff or whatever. I would actually advise you look into the God-Machine stuff and Demon, though, because once you get passed robot angels, it's a really awesome setting.

Second, there's actually a Translation Guide for porting Demon concepts from oWoD to CofD and vice versa, so if nothing else you could play your Demon with the much better mechanics of nDemon, though I'm not sure how well the powers are ported (they usually aren't done well).

You could also start with something other than Demon.

>>49955308

>though I'm not sure how well the powers are ported (they usually aren't done well).

Considering that the powers in the Translation Guides are just 1 to 1 ports, Demon is probably the best of the bunch, though there's some interesting math with Torment that one may or may not agree with.

>>49955392
Tell me more.
Anyone got the Translation Guide?

>>49955088
For what it's worth, Demon is absolutely the best system to play a spy game in. Out of the box the book gives you the kit to run Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and other Cold War shenanigans. But if that's not what you're after then there's not a lot the game can offer you, though it also has a little niche for running Heists and the sort pretty decently. With certain embeds and exploits you really can be Danny Ocean and retroactively fit parts of your genius plan into the story and come out with your cover intact. I personally love it, but it's a hard system to run. I admire it from afar, sift through my book and pine "Maybe, one day I'll run that game".

>>49951686
>>49951670

8/10 hits the target number while being amusing

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>>49952602
pretty good. although with the note the spirit world travel is disjointed. getting behind a wall could take anywhere between an hour or a day. depending on the umbra landscape. My rule of thumb would be any travel takes an hour per wall per floor.

>>49955088

DtD is a fairly traditional Gnostic narrative with a thin coat of chrome paint over it and also happens to be the second-best espionage game on the market after Night's Black Agents.

There's also the bit where you don't /have/ to like every CofD gameline, and are also free to use the Demon Translation Guide to run the Demon you already know and love in the new rules.

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>>49956671
I mean, the old Demon was rather Gnostic (though more Milton-esque and with a bigger Abrahamic bent) as well, given that the almighty was absent and almost entirely Old Testament in behavior.
>>49955254
Technically it is a personality disorder, which are distinct from more run of the mill chemical imbalances.
>>49954591
Because they never really deserved to be a full clan. I love the Malks, but given their difficulty in portraying without falling to offensive stereotypes on the mentally ill, or just simply being annoying as fuck, they really needed to be rarer than one of the seven founding clans of the Camarilla.

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>>49957199
You can get the Malk feeling in Requiem by using Nos, Mekhet, or Venture as a base.

Nos if you want that the really off feeling. You stylize his bane as mentally questionable tics. Nos's Nightmare is like or the mental fuckery plus illusion. The discipline is a nice tool kit

Mekhet for seeing beyond, and being separated by circumstance. Auspex is always a winner, with it's information grabbing. With the oracle shebang.

Venture For mental Puppeteering. Dom is use a classic. What's real? I'll tell you. Plus their mental breakdowns as they lose humanity.

Nos and Mekhet have obfuscate in clan, so a Venture you'd have to cross pollinate. But still a Malk with a high damage threshold (Resilience) is scary in it's own right.

The only thing Requiem really did was take the themes of the niche clans and gave options for the archetype clans to dig into them if they want.

>>49957199
they are one of the seven founding clans but not all clans are the same size.

>>49952843
I remember in the old Haunters Guildbook, four of the five templates were sitting in a fast food restaurant when someone walked in and blew them away with a shotgun. The fifth died in the electric chair for unloading a shotgun into four people in a fast food restaurant.

>>49957857
Malks should always be thin on the ground because a clan like that is going to be better at getting themselves killed than anything else.

>>49957979
>a clan like that is going to be better at getting themselves killed than anything else.
only if you assume that being mentally ill makes you horrible at living. the vast majority of mentally ill get along just fine

COLD
O
L
D

I mean I know its just an illusion but for being a supposed regular on all the shows this season, what with being a Rogue and member of the LoT's Legion of Doom we need more Miller

wow the discord is shit

>>49959001
The vast majority of homeless people are also mentally ill. I don't even think "the vast majority of mentally ill get along just fine" is a true statement, considering how often these things go untreated.
The Malkavian mental illness is also pretty slapstick far too often.

>>49959015
What?

>>49959254

>>49959015 posted a response to tonight's Flash on the board apparently.

>>49959254
>The vast majority of homeless people are also mentally ill
thats a homeless peron problem. the vast majority of the mentally ill are not homeless.

>>49959365
About half of the people who are mentally ill go untreated.

>>49959397
and many of them are still functional people.

>>49959423
And many of them are homeless or close to it, suffering too much from their illness or simply the social stigma of being mentally ill to get help.

>>49959445
not really.

>>49959445

While a significant portion of the homeless have mental illnesses, the vast majority of mentally ill people are not homeless. "Mental illness" is an awfully broad umbrella, especially when it comes to demographics.

So weird question.

I'm getting ready to play a changeling...not in WoD in a different system but for a modern game. I'm wanting however to make a straight up changeling ala the lost since I most likely will never get a chance to play that game.

I'm wanting to have some kind of semantic "fey like" power or set of powers, but not one that's related to charming or compelling anything. Are there any good power examples I could possibly use that are neat but also useful? (I'm looking through the only book I have right now seeing if anything sticks out). Basically what are some neat things to theme a character around?

I realize this is a very broad and possibly unhelpful question, I'm just trying to brainstorm and I'm looking for something more subtly mystical than "ice powers"

Does anyone have a copy of Promethean 2nd edition?

>>49959674
Illusions are classically Fey.
So are wishes.

>>49953004
I'd rule they'd be fried too. Muscles work due to electrical signals from the central nervous system.

>>49953004
Being electrocuted causes your muscles to contract. So you'd likely be crushing them in your group while you're both electrocuted.

>>49953324
>reason for not spirit walking
well, the rules for Werewolf indicate that they need a reflective surface to enter the "spirit world". Why not rule they can only exit from a reflective surface as well? That at least gives players a paranoid fighting chance
>fuck 7 years bad luck, I smash every mirror in the hotel room!

>>49959750
Oh my god.

Go to google.

Type: "promethean the created 2e" PDF 4shared

http://www.4shared.com/office/JjF8iVegce/Promethean_the_Created_2e.htm

>>49957199
>I love the Malks, but given their difficulty in portraying without falling to offensive stereotypes on the mentally ill...
Fortunately I suffer from a major mental illness, so I won't tolerate shitheads doing that in my game. I'm about to start a new group, and fresh out of the gate, Malks are only allowed with strict veto and approval. A Derangement like an obsession, paranoia, phobia, even multiple personalities (as long as the mouthbreather in question doesn't conflate it with schizophrenia); that's okay. If That Guy wants to play a Malk dressed in a nun's habit with ICP make-up wielding a chainsaw, I'm just going to politely and firmly say "no".

>>49960037
How does obsessive cleanliness strike you? Like an obsessive compulsive disorder?

>>49959254
>The vast majority of homeless people are also mentally ill.
That's largely a consequence of the heartless attitude America has traditionally taken towards looking after her most unfortunate citizens. A large percentage of homeless people in NYC are unmedicated schizophrenics that would probably be okay if they could get adequate medical care.

>If you don't have health insurance, you're NOT FUCKING TRYING HARD ENOUGH

>>49959674
"Glamour" - powers over illusions and the minds of mortals, buddy.

>>49960089
Preaching to the choir here.

>>49959674
Are you trying to stat a Lost Changeling in Mutants & Masterminds?

>>49959059
well it has Aspel in it.

>>49960065
If it's played sensitively, it could be a really good Derangement (player rolls Self-Control or has too straighten their environment, entering sewers or being forced to touch unclean things causes a roll for Rotschreck...). There's a horror and misery in OCD for people who really suffer from it, a creeping paranoia of the contagion of chaos. I've known annorexic girls who exhibited OCD-like symptoms when they were in Ketosis of the liver, stuffing towels under their doors and avoiding drinking water because the calories might creep into their room or be swallowed inadvertently. Like OCD, Annorexia is the pursuit of purity.

>>49960089
>>49960089
Malkavians can't get adequate mental care and if they were to medicate themselves, it would have to be from the blood of someone on those medications and that's... inexact.

I'm just going to go ahead and say it. Vampire domains operating under the masquerade are not analagous to modern American society. Group survival and keeping the secret outweigh the need to care for their mentally ill. Malkavians are going to be fewer, just from the selective pressure that comes with cleaning up after those who's infirmities make them a threat to the continued survival of the group. Those with more low-key derangements will get along fine.

>>49960129
>Preaching to the choir here.
respect knuckles.

>>49960176
Guaranteed to always have hand sanitizer on hand. The character was a germophobe in life and even moreso in unlife.

>>49960193
>Malkavians can't get adequate mental care
except of course from all those embraced doctors and the doctors that were blood bound or mind controlled into helping.
>and if they were to medicate themselves, it would have to be from the blood of someone on those medications and that's... inexact.
only at first. if a decent size group put their minds to it they could figure out a dosage for a rather large herd and lots of testing.

>>49960193
mentally ill =/= totally dysfunctional.

For that matter, human beings have to be pretty far gone to think wanton murder or rape or arson are warranted and acceptable, and there are asshole warlords in Africa that do more heinous shit and can't even blame it on a lack of medication. Most mentally ill people simply do things or say things for reasons that aren't immediately clear (odd styles of dress, repetitive patterns of phrase, word salad, ritualised behaviour, basing actions on unfounded fears), but still understand the basic concept of right from wrong, even if that is guilt applied after they act on impulse. Assuming that all mentally ill people are out of control killing machines is just plain ignorant, and really beneath you.

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>Daily reminder: Masquerade is still in effect even if it is Halloween, licks

>ITT: Why it's very important that clinical psychology has fine-tuned its definitions of what constitutes a mental disorder

>>49960268
>>49960301
>Those with more low-key derangements will get along fine.

>>49960329
It's probably also worth pointing out that "insanity" is a legal term, meaning someone who's illness impairs their ability to make rational judgement.

Also, a person can be ridiculously neurotic and still be considered mentally healthy, the delineation is really the point where the illness fucks with your ability to function.

Soooo can vampires fuck in nWoD?

>>49961509
Spend Vitae, get use of your dick back for a while.

>>49961588
>cum is blood
>lubricant is blood
>spit is blood

hope you like some strawberry kisses action and own a tarpaulin, cause kindred sex is messy as fuck when you're at full ass-rape stiffness

>>49961758
You see oWoD, this is exactly the kind of reason why we never want to introduce you to our friends.

stat me, CofD or oWod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_FO4e0H78

>>49961880
I want to, but I'm afraid anon

>>49961880
>black spiral dancer kinfolk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyiD0TDuSPM

File: Trent and the cheeky wuzzlers.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>49961880
>>49963072

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>>49963247
He has more willpower than me

>>49963268
>>49963268
And no honor or wisdom but he's a stubborn li'l sprog.

And Four Willpower? What were you thinking?

>>49963072
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uj6ZUKikDg
Truly the gnawerest of the gnawers

>>49954758

Nines Rodriguez is mentioned in that godawful "herp a derp gehenna" novel that came out years ago, where the only thing that was said was "he's dead!".

However, in the upcoming V20 book "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" he re-visits a lot of the locations from the game (the Asylum nightclub, the refurbished Haunted House hotel and the Santa Monica pier). Nines Rodriguez is also given more of a write-up in said book, we get some of his background written up, and we're told how its rumored that Nines was involved in the death of the latest Camarilla prince to "claim" L.A., Lacroix.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-v20-becketts-jyhad-diary

>>49963732

Huh, thanks. I actually skipped out on that due to the price, but if a digital version holds my interest I may part with the cash for a physical version.

It sounds like VtMB may be the first 'piece' of new canon for V5. Which would make sense for how often they are apparently nagged about it. It's by far more famous than the tabletop version these days, sadly.

A Moros Legacy the uses Time as a lens to observe the history of things that have long since forgotten. Entropic forces that ebb and flows in history. Using Death to see when time metaphorically stood still in points of a subjects past or significant moments that same to close. Then using Matter to craft mnemonics of to call upon the history of the subject.

What attainments should this legacy have?

Any advice?

>>49963247
fucking perfect.
>"What you doing up at Woy Woy, Trent?"
>"Got a Sept up at Gosford, ey... got a bit of a scene up there... said he could deal me some klaives... what weapons don't Trent like?"

>>49963781
What's their philosophy?

Can Auspex see auras in VtR 2e? Can it detect diaberists?

>>49963788
To preserve forgotten histories through memorials that let you witness and experience the high and lowpoints to get a better perspective of the Truth. Watch the Star Trek Voyager Episode: Memorial for inspiration.

>>49963813
"Words alone cannot convey the suffering. Words alone can not prevent what happened here from happening again. Beyond words lies experience; beyond experience lies truth. Make this truth your own."

At what point after death do bones become unaffected by Life Arcanum?

>>49964173
at the moment of death itself. At this point Life becomes Matter.

>>49960328
>oh real creative Jimmy, you're the wolfman again

So, I'm a horrible ST and I'm making my group go up against a Socially oriented Destroyer Demon who's been around since the cold war, what embeds/exploits would be fun for them to have to deal with?

>>49965106
Wow. 20 years of experience. He'd almost be Blood Potency 2.

>>49964985
Dress as Van Helsing

Any Van

So, making Conditions for various Exceptional Success things is one of the harder things to do as ST I've found.

What good ones have you invented?

One of mine is on Riding the Wave checks, which grants an additional +2 on physical action rolls while riding, and grants a Beat each time you endanger yourself by acting incautiously.
It resolves by itself at the end of the Scene.

>>49965560
I usually just give simple positives and negatives.
Stops shit from getting out of hand, and players appreciate the simple and reliable benefits and penalties.

>>49965579
Yeah. +2 on that general type of attack until end of combat, is one of my standbys.
This has led to the fun side effect that my players try to spice up combat with different kinds of moves to rack up lots of different kinds of conditions.

>>49965533
>Cold War
>20 years
???
Even if we're talking the tale end of the Cold War, that's at least 25 years of experience, but presumably the Demon has been around since the middle of it, or even the start.

>>49965106
What gameline? Because even though it's oWoD, this >>49952308 >>49952245 >>49952602 is a good place to start. Use the traits of the gameline you're running. Tweak it a bit, refluff it, but primarily use what's on hand.

So what if a werewolf got torn apart to make a promethean, then the promethean achieved new dawn, then became a hunter, who devolved into a slasher, who later awoke as a mage, then died and became a sin eater?

>>49965616
Ah. I misunderstood. Where I come from, "since" normally means "since it ended".

>>49965621
Aren't Slashers' souls kind of broken?

>>49965560
Jesus christ, I fucking hate doing this. I usually grant +2 or -2 on some general action related to the roll, but there are paradoxal conditions that ain't that easy (you can do it, but it wont be that fun).

>>49965621
That is some serious bullshit, man...

>>49965533
>blood potency
>demon
>20 years
???? Anon are you okay?
>>49965616
The middle, roughly. He was originally responsible for tracking down and returning Herr Argerr. I might've mentioned, my "group" are Hunters, not other demons. They're fairly experienced, incredibly rich and have some good connections, but this will be the first "smart" full template they've had to deal with, not a dumb pure mook whom they could dispatch with a gun.

Could a sufficiently powerful supernatural perform the Lacuna on a promethean sans the part where they consume the juice?

>>49965738
Realistically, literally anyone can perform Lacuna. Al it really is, is tearing open a promethean and stealing their vitriol. Only prometheans and Pandorans just drink it down because they use vitriol for important stuff. Alchemists probably store it for use in some permanent body modification unless they intend to make the change then and there.

>>49963767

Well, for 4e (V20). Everything OPP prints for WoD probably won't be canon for 5e. The new MET games are probably closer to what the 5e canon will look like.

>>49965720
>>blood potency
>>demon
>>20 years
>???? Anon are you okay?

I'm just trying to put things into perspective. 20 years is nothing.

>>49965882
25 years is quite a long time, and you're also forgetting, demons....are not vampires, they don't just slowly get stronger by existing, the older a demon is the longer it has evaded the god machine and chances are, the more cunning it is. A demon that old is reasonably, quite dangerous or quite cautious.

>>49965550
"Oh, I'm sorry honey... Mummy misheard you. I got you this Eric Van Lustbader costume from the 'great literary costume store'."

>>49965621
Was his name Samuel Haight, by any chance?

>>49965793
>The new MET games are probably closer to what the 5e canon will look like.

Which is why I'm not fucking using it. Who else here has a "favourite edition", and tells every subsequent version to fuck off, occasionally pulling out fluff as it suits them? Show of hands.

So what is Beast exactly?
I really like the idea of crossover games and I heard Beast specializes in it, but I also heard from a lot of people that it's really bad. Can someone redpill me the basic pros and cons?
Also what do we know about Renegade so far? I heard it's about you playing as some freak experiment or something?

>>49965621
Slashers can't awaken, last I checked. They count as a template.

>>49966030
You have the soul of a spooky nightmare, and go around bullying people so they don't forget their primeval fears.

>>49966030
>redpill
No.
Because redpilling implies that you were blind to the truth, and wants to see it.
You were never part of the brainwashed masses. In fact, the masses don't think that Beast is good.

Also, we don't know much about Deviant.

>>49965966
Do we have a nWoD version of him?

>>49966081
No.

Or, well, we have a few characters who are introduced as ultimate badasses. Dar-us from Wolfsbane counts.

>>49966030
You're a fear Goetia in a human body. You feed from human fear, so you make them shit their pants so you can live another day.You also think it's for their own good.

And since you're a fear Goetia you share affinities with all the other monsters of the CofD

>>49966030
Okay, so here's the skinny from someone who loves the concept of the game. You're a beasty, some primordial horror or another. but there's the first wrinkle, unlike demons, werewolves, et cetera, you are monster in name alone. The "monster" you lives in the primordial dream in your lair, you still get some fancy powers and some are hilariously broken. The game is kinda directionless beyond "satiate yourself", for some beasts this means feeding on fear, or collecting a hoard of emotionally valuable things, shit like that. By doing beast shit to get fed you also sometimes create heroes, who're humans who get fucked up by the Primordial dream and start hunting beasts, another problem in the book comes from this, the tone of what heros are and how they and beasts interact shifts pretty constantly between "They're the good guys protecting normies from you", to "They're ALL bullies and abusers, worse than beasts." to "they're not all that bad, but non-shithead heroes rarely are able to even find beasts because it'd be boring" in the course of the book. In theory there's supposed to be like, a give and take of both being part of an abusive relationship. There's also some real tedious furry/otherkin undertones going on. All in all, it might work good for a crossover game, one of the main problems is the lack of direction.

>>49966052
Fuck you're right. I forgot.
I'm trying to make the most ridiculous character possible while still technically staying within the book rules.

Total new friend here. What's the difference between CofD and cWoD? I play a lot of 5e because it's really big where I am and AL hrre is actually very good with good people, but I remember playing the VtM video game and really liking the system. I have friends from.before I moved to my new town for work who were pretty into oWoD and enjoyed it but at the time I didn't do too much TTRPG. what's a good way to get into the system? What are your personal favourite sub games? What do you like mechanically about the system? I'm attracted because much as I like rolling d20s and damage dice I wouldn't mind a change with the success system and dots instead of just stats.

>>49966095
That doesn't really sound like a huge problem though.
If you played standalone Beast, it would definitely be a huge issue because you'd have no goal, but since Beast was built for crossover, wouldn't that be a good thing since the storyteller would have less goals to account for?
The main complaint I hear from storytellers who hate crossover games is that it's too annoying and difficult to keep track of all the different goals that each individual splat is working towards. So wouldn't having a goalless splat for crossover games be an almost good thing?

>>49966205
It's not 100% goalless. It's just that all of their goals are completed from the moment they get a super friend.

>>49966150
>What's the difference between CofD and cWoD
Ok, this is a big question. cWoD is all about a big world, a huge story where everything is interconnected. You play just one small piece of a huge world. As a D&D player, you should be familiar with the concept, but just imagine if every source book released changed the settings just like new editions do in D&D.
CofD is a sandbox, nothing is true unless you want it to be. There is backstory for everything, plenty of it nowadays actually, but there is nothing that forces things into a certain pattern going forward.
cWoD was never really interconnected, with the specific game you played having primacy of truth. The various splats directly contradicted each other.
CofD is designed to be at least setting-coherent. By default the vampires and the werewolves and the rest exist in the same world. There are some slight contradictions, but they are explained as "the people don't exactly know".
cWoD is a child of the 90's. It is very apparent.
CofD is a child of today. It is also very apparent.
cWoD is a bit clunkier mechanically, but you'll get over it.
CofD is a bit smoother mechanically, but you'll forget it.

>>49966150
>>49966298
>cont.


>what's a good way to get into the system?
If you are ok with GM-ing (called ST, or Storyteller here), I recommend cutting pieces from various horror/crime tv series and books, and just running a normal human game to get going first.
>What are your personal favourite sub games? >
Mage, Werewolf and regular old mortal for me. I want to try Demon, but the group has been reluctant.
Mage I like due to the freedom of the system. Werewolf I love due to the inherent savagery in werewolves, and I love their shamanistic culture.
What do you like mechanically about the system? I'm attracted because much as I like rolling d20s and damage dice I wouldn't mind a change with the success system and dots instead of just stats.
This is an EXCELLENT question. I like the mechanics because they have a rather nice bell curve of probability. I dislike D20 and D% due to flat probability. WoD is much more fluid. Now, it has it's own problems, in that advancing from "really good" to "world best" is an increase in just one die. Say, from 9 to 10, which doesn't improve success chances markedly. 9 and 10 dice are practically the same.

>>49966298
>>49966307

Thanks for the in depth answer it's really helpful. I actually already DM for 5e in AL so im certainly not new to running though I would be to the Storyteller system. So far I enjoy the fluff and the mechanics seem interesting and a nice difference. I am somewhat with you on probability but I still enjoy d20 for what it is, imperfect but fun. Another reason is as much as I do like DND I'm a bit sick of high fantasy and want something darker. I really like your idea of putting together horror novellas I think an introductory story where the party has a detective, a photographer, a socialite, and a barista would be a great segue into Mage or Werewolf or Hunter.

But when I meant what are cWoD or CofD I was wondering what the acronyms meant lol. I'm only really familiar with the fluff of oWoD which I really liked. Whats in the newer fluff?

>>49967074
Ah!
cWoD: Classic World of Darkness, it's a bit of an outdated term now. Nowadays it's supposed to be just WoD.
CofD: Chronicles of Darkness, it's a re-brand of the new World of Darkness (nWoD), since it could mix the two up.

>>49966150
>What's the difference between CofD and cWoD?

CofD tends to have five sub-types for every splat with room for creating smaller splinter groups, while oWoD had more options than a swiss army knife in every single game line. The mood is very different, too - CofD focuses on "our world-ish" while oWoD is this dark, cynical gothic-punk version with gargoyles on skyscrapers.

>what's a good way to get into the system?

oWoD was my thing, so I have to say try Vampire the Masquerade first. Werewolf had a lot to unpack, Wraith was heavy shit, Mage took a little getting used to. With V:tM, the powers are clearly defined and the world is easier to adjust to.

>What are your personal favourite sub games?

Vampire was my first, played a printout copy of the 2nd edition intro kit from a binder and a single d10 from my AD&D days.

Werewolf is awesome if you're into animism, tribalism and sheer megaviolence. My player group learnt to howl like a pack after a while... boy, we sure terrified the shit out of the neighbours.

Mage was pretty amazing too, when you got the hang of it. I didn't like the metaplot shit that cut players off from the Umbra and Archmages - that was just a tantrum by the designers that we "weren't playing it right."

Wraith, while amazing, takes a particular group to handle and play well without imploding. I own a copy of Mummy 2nd and want to run it, but I'm between players right now.

>What do you like mechanically about the system?

Well you have to understand, my experiences prior to V:tM were mostly based on AD&D 2nd ed, with a brief foray into RIFTS. I was used to having a bunch of different dice. There was something so elegant about using just one type of die. At the same time, stylistically, there was nothing else on the market even remotely like it. Get to play the monsters? Sign me up! It made a change from enter dungeon, slay monster, take back gold, spend on whores, repeat.

http://ear-play.com/white-wolf-partnership/

Well, Wraith20 delayed for another year, I guess. Thanks, Dracula.

>>49967371
I hate Dracula

>>49967371
Why would he give a shit when he wants to nuke the entire world and rebuild it?

5e is going to be just full of surprises, you watch. About the only consolation available to me is that once 5th goes live, I have a finite amount of decent books to collect and can plan shelf space accordingly.

>>49967307
>>49967145

Thanks for the info! I'm more inclined toward cWoD now that you're talking about it because it does sound like the change I'm going for. Are there PDF for those rarer books in the pastebin? My town as I said is 90℅ 5e and 10℅ PF so finding books would interest me. There's also one table of Shadowrun but it's full and has some grogs, good lads but they've been a group for 5+ years so hard to get a seat.

I also really like what you're saying with one type of dice and playing AS the monsters rather than go, kill, repeat. My D&D players are awesome at roleplaying but I dont just wana be the "good guys". I'd like to see some struggles.

>>49967553

I mean, I'd say the stuff we're hearing about now is already full of surprises. I feel like the reaction's ultimately going to be like 2004: 5e'll develop a fanbase, potentially an even bigger one than all of us if the games and TV show don't suck, and the white hot flaming will die down I to occasional internet scuffles as 5e is the only edition with support if it lives long enough to when OPP is done with WoD20 (so 2030 at the very least).

>>49967687
>>49967307
>>49967145

Sorry I'm on my phone right now hence why I cant see everything on the pastebin/mega

>>49967687
>I'd like to see some struggles.

All the White Wolf stuff has that to some degree or another, just in different flavours.

The MEGA folders have pretty comprehensive collections. Start by reading the core rulebook for whatever game line catches your eye, when you have access to a desktop computer. You can comfortably carry most of the entire oWoD on a single removable drive, certainly all the books for one splat. Once you grasp the core concepts, who the different factions are, character generation is really quick compared to some RPG's. You might have to fix a few things on the fly - White Wolf games are never perfect - but it is enormous fun.

>>49967687
Just a little warning: Vampire has a natural tendency to devolve into Underworld, especially if you're running it with D&D players, so you'll have to make sure to curb that kind of behaviour.

>>49967687
pdfs of cwod are freely available across the webs.

>>49968119
I'll keep an eye on that. I really wanted to run Vampire, Werewolf or Hunter. And for Hunter I wanted to actually invert the story on the PCs: you fight the darkness but it's winning and also much stronger. Survive, bitches. For Vampire I really like the internal conflict anr policies as well as Kindred society. Werewolf just sounds cool so I'll ask around and break a group if I get time for another game.

And yes I want to avoid animuesque being encounters with angsty superheroes who are monsters in name only.

>>49968264
Thanks and I'll check the mega.

Speaking of which is there any online play for this game or is thay just a the usual neckbeards and edgelords I'm used to from roll20? (Not all of it was actually bad just making a point)

>>49968347
>And for Hunter I wanted to actually invert the story on the PCs: you fight the darkness but it's winning and also much stronger. Survive, bitches.

That is CofD hunter in a nutshell. WoD Hunter is all about being a chosen champion to stand against the darkness, as a bastion of power and light.

>>49968515
>WoD Hunter is all about being a chosen champion to stand against the darkness, as a bastion of power and light.

Unless you're running a game of "Hunters Hunted", in which case you're often just a pretty regular vampire hunter who can't call on divine superpowers.

Are vampires still vulnerable to snake bites and similar poisons in VtR 2e?

>>49968659
I don't see how they possibly could be vulnerable to them.

I think 2e vampires can be affected by poisons if they consume poisoned blood?

>>49968515
I agree that I'm not huge on CofD because I do like the WoD setting better. But maybe I'll do it is is also.more recent.

Or do this thing
>>49968593


But perhaps I would give them divine powers just have the othrr factions gang up on them. If I went that route, though, because Vampire would be my primary choice. But I do find the appeal of Storytelling for people who fight things that go bump in the night to be interesting.

>>49968515
>WoD Hunter is all about being a chosen champion to stand against the darkness, as a bastion of power and light that is quickly driven insane by the horrors they see and the responsibility they hold.
ftfy.

>>49967371
Wraith20 is honestly the only cWoD book I care about at this point.

>>49943164
I'm finally playing that high Humanity Tzimisce trauma surgeon that got talked about years ago in these threads.

It's been fun as hell.

>>49969078

It's the only 20th book that I actually put up money for a copy of. Luckily, I'm a very patient man.

>>49943202
Anon, I *bought* the book and my pdf download is *still* the pre-errata version.

If I don't get a post-errata pdf you sure as hell don't.

>>49969118
I should really check and make sure my hardcopy has errata incorporated, on that note. Will do so when I get home tonight.

>>49968709
Well, they made a big deal of it in 1e (there was even a Medusa themed bloodline with special Animalism). They justified it by saying some poisons attack the blood stream, I think.

>>49969547

>>49966205
>So wouldn't having a goalless splat for crossover games be an almost good thing?
As someone in a crossover game with a Beast, you'd think that, but they feel like they don't have a lot of player agency since they don't have many real goals to work for rather than the ones other PCs present. They have been trying to bring their own backstory stuff up more, but it isn't really feeling all that compelling at the moment.
>>49966226
>It's not 100% goalless. It's just that all of their goals are completed from the moment they get a super friend.
Yeah, feeding for them is no problem at all. The vampire at least manages to still bring vampire problems for us to deal with to the table even when they have all the blood they need because vampire society has intrigue, goals, and active things for us to deal with. Beasts have...nothing

>>49969118

If you bought it, you should go to your Drivethru library and download it again, as it will have updated.

>>49969226

If it was a pod from drivethru, it'll be the errata'd one.

>>49968915
>But perhaps I would give them divine powers just have the othrr factions gang up on them.

Hunters Hunted does offer the opportunity for the hunters to get some minor powers of their own. But, all those things are vastly underpowered when compared to... well, anything a trained vampire can dish out.

For example, a hunter could get a so-called numina (basically hedge-magic or minor psychic powers) that lets him talk to animals. However, this is basically just a vastly underpowered form of the Vampiric Discipline "Animalism". And unlike a vampire who only needs to spend a few drops of blood at most (which are easily rejuvenated), the human hunters have to spend *willpower*, which are far harder to get back. And the investment/gain ratio is pretty skewed as well, with the vampire spending both less resources *and* getting more from their power.

The only really powerful power regular humans can wield against vampires is True Faith, and that's REALLY damn rare and hard to acquire in the World of Darkness. So rare that I think most of the books actually say a character can't actually pick True Faith at character creation, and that it has to be purchased later on with experience points.

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>>49966150
A good way in is by playing a mortal in a haunted house, but vamp is the most popular introduction material.

Play Cod, the mechanics are simpler. One attack in owod is attack(att+skill), opponent dodge(att+skill), opponent soak(att+equipment), three different rolls. Cod is attack pool - opponent def. (att+skill - defence Mod)

The game is more focused around the city without be hampered by a metaplot. The GM makes the city how he wants it.

>>49965882
Like the other anon said, not every supernatural gets stronger by sitting around and having their blood thicken. An older Vampire is strong, sure, but 25 years to them is nothing. For a Demon? That's 219000+ hours of lying in a way that would make a vampire blush.

>>49966030
Take the "be a unique weird thing based on whatever idea you've got" of Changeling, but without the in-depth Kith character creation, mix it with a bit of Prometheans "I'm such an outsider" themes, but Vampire's "I'm the best stop trying to kill me for being a jerk" theme, and give it the trappings of a bit of Mind based reality from Mage (but only the spooky parts). Then learn nothing from Geist and give it no society or goals beyond the day-to-day.
That's Beast.

It's a lot of good ideas, some middling to annoying tone, and a lot of things to do that are all contradictory.

As a Beast, you're a nightmare monster. Thematically, you're treated as a reincarnation of ancient monsters like the Hydra or Medusa, though the fluff also indicates that you're more of a *dream* of the real thing. A Mage in a crossover fiction outright tells the Beast that he's just a Goetia. And frankly, that's the best way to look at them. They're Geist but with mind-forms instead of ghosts. It's pretty neat, but could use something like Kiths.

I'm wasting my 2000 characters, though.

Beast is about feeding your Hunger. Your desire to do shitty things because it sates the spooky nightmare that replaced your soul.

Beast is also about forming your own communities and families. Family is a big theme for Beast, and as a primordial nightmare creature, you are a dream of the real monsters, and you can learn from them and gain new powers (to better replicate the fears they represent). You can also feed your Hunger by watching them feed theirs--that is, a vampire drinking blood, a changeling supping on Glamour, or even a Mage delving into a Mystery. Which means you can ignore your own Hunger...

>>49966205
Beasts being goalless means that in crossover they're essentially there because of the power of friendship.

>>49968347
If you want to get your D&D players in and slowly wean them off of the D&D style "kill everything" attitude, you might want to start with Werewolf: The Forsaken 2e. (and everyone is just assuming your players are murderhobos and you aren't correcting them, so I guess that's accurate)

Werewolf is a game about being a supernatural hunter. Once every few months you're compelled to pick a target and go hunt it. It's kind of more Shadowrun, often, and you don't always need to kill, but it's definitely encouraged. Done right, Werewolf is also a game where the things you hunt down require you to work as a team, and take down terrifying things that can kill even people with hyper regeneration.

But it's still in the Chronicles of Darkness, where social interaction is necessary and research, planning, and managing your networks is all a large part of the game.