The Best of Wonder Woman

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>>91758835
>Featuring RAGS MORALES and MICHAEL BAIR from the Dr. Light May Cry™ series!

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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rwqrasp45cfsxu9/AACi5mhCeheYFvp-L9juE0t5a?dl=0

>>91758878
Is Rags Morales the hip young diverse Ragman replacement?

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It looks like the first two threads are dead now, so you have to go to the archive to read them.


>Part 1 - Gods and Mortals (George Perez)
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/91303244/
>Part 2 - Challenge of the Gods I-II (George Perez)
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/91309099/

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>>91758946
He's the Amalgam universe version of Miles Morales and Ragman, yes.

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>>91758978
This reminds me of that opening scene in BvS, where it's all fun that Superman is saving Lois Lane, but the stuff actually going on around them is insanely depressing (terrorist executing guys, sexual slavery ring)

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I got fucking LIT last night, jesus. I only wanted one tequila + juice. It's really true that the more you drink the harder it is to tell how much you're drinking.

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I think this is the only Hades redesign I've ever loved.

>>91759073
I mean, when you start off with tequila...

>>91759032
Can I ask your opinion on BvS if you've not answered it already/it's not gonna shit up or trigger the thread?

>>91759032
Dude, I watched BvS for the first time a week ago (extended version), and reading about the differences between the versions leaves me at a total loss. It's a complete failure of Snyder editing that much crucial stuff out, and WB for letting him film that much

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>>91759121
Ehhhh I'd rather not get too into movies since they're a shitposting magnet.

There are things it did that I thought were great and some that weren't great. I really appreciate what they were trying to do by making something a bit more than just popcorn fare, something like The Dark Knight was, but it just didn't really make it there.

The thing that killed it was all the Justice League "setup" stuff shoved in. Wonder Woman was awful and exactly what I don't want Wondie to be but Gadot did fine with what she had.

I can't say much as to its quality as a movie because I'm not that smart, but as a comic fan, it's enjoyable but not great.

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At the end of the day I don't know if I can even watch it ever again just because the shitposting has driven me so insane.

>>91759324
>At the end of the day I don't know if I can even watch it ever again just because the shitposting has driven me so insane.
4chan.txt

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This run makes me really interested in Cassie. She has the potential to replace Vanessa as my daughterfu.

>>91759324
Yeah, the other day my dad and I were rewatching the Dark Knight Trilogy, and I couldn't help but snicker a bit when we reached the opening scene of TDKR. Fucking memes.

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>>91759364
I will admit I never get tired of Baneposting.

>>91759390
What I was gonna say. The plane scene is basically just a comedy now.

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>>91759441
She's a big god

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>ywn have a pizza party with Nightwing and Conner

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Diana stole this look from the new Crimson Avenger

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>>91759518
>thumbnail
m-moot...?

>>91759518
>that thumbnail
lolwut

>>91759531
moot's dead

>>91759503
It would be Tim silly!

Nightwing was running a secret Outsiders I think at this time, or it could have been the end of that Titans series (where Donna died)

>>91759518
Speaking of minority replacements no one fucking remembers...

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>>91759531
This stuff was covered back in one of the Perez threads, if y'all remember!

>>91759540
His ghost still haunts these servers

>>91759542
Tim's not a hot slut like Dick, but good point about him being on Outsiders at the time.

>>91759098
Desu I find a lot of the god designs in WW underwhelming but I like seeing different takes.

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>>91759579
Ironically she could have been kind of cool, albeit really Linkin Park edgy, if she had more than like one short arc in JSA and barely any other development.

>>91759579
I legitimately don't know. Who is replacing who at this time?

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I mean her thing was literally crying blood and talking about how numb she is while her Devil May Cry guns kill everyone

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>>91759619
Talking about the black lady Crimson Avenger from Johns' JSA
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Jill_Carlyle_(New_Earth)

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>>91759629
I was playing Subnautica and fell into the Void (unfinished area with no floor) in my Prawn suit, and all I could do was sit there and fall eternally waiting for the pressure to very slowly kill me.

It was hilarious just watching myself plummet endlessly.

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OK so this issue I'm auto-dumping while I grab some pizza, as I am wont to do.

>>91759647
>>91759629
>She used to study law but when she became a lawyer she lost a case in which the defendant was clearly guilty. Jill obtains a pair of Colt pistols originally owned by the first Crimson Avenger (Lee Travis) and uses them to exact vengeance upon the criminal. These guns are cursed such that, if the possessor uses them out of revenge, he or she will be cursed to track and kill those who have taken innocent life. As part of the curse, an ever-bleeding bullet hole appears on her chest.
kek

shit, Kate Spencer did that without needing to be cursed.

I love the sound of the Nexus-ish visions of death and inherited skills of the victim though. I should look up the comics she's in.

>>91759647
And to think Connor would be dead just a few months later.

Speaking of the Underworld in general, I have forgotten about how Gaiman reconciled having the Underworld (for Orpheus) and Hell existing at the same time

>>91759746
Nevermind, it looks like Morrison made Hell and the Underworld two distinct things

Hey Tex.

>that disgusting feel when I actually gave out some recs today
It felt dirty and induced more than a few dry heaves. I'm still cleaning the occasional blood drip from my ears.

That motherfucker had better be reading all that shit.

>>91759890
What did you rec?

>>91759915
The usual WW stuff, some Birds of Prey, Legion, Katehunter, etc.

>>91759890
Oh my god, between this and your apology last night you really are not muh cranky

>>91759098
He's got kind of a Samedi look going on, I like it.

>>91759974
That mouth in the first panel...jeeezus.

>>91759518
The imageswap mistakes are coming back, and I love it.

>>91760097
Eh, you know me, go hard or go home.

Like seriously, you expect me to make this big, heartfelt speech by only to not follow through? Fuck that. I've storytimed Crash Bandicoot Retold twice, I can keep a pledge to be less of an ass.

>>91760004
Those swords are really shiny. Hades must have the skeletons polishing them all day.

>>91759922
If only Kipling had accepted mr. Stone's offer, his son might have lived.

I should really continue to re-read The Unwritten

>>91759717
Pizza store killed Texas

>>91761480
Fucking alt-righters.

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Sorry for the huge delay.

>>91759890
I did too, actually. When someone asks nicely and is legitimately enthusiastic it's hard not to.
>>91759746
Hell and the Underworld are aspects of the metaconcept "the Pit". You go to whichever one you believe in when you die. IIRC though Gaiman's Lucifer was like Dream in that he embodies the concept itself, so while Hades and Satan rule their own versions of the Pit, Lucifer rules both of them.

Like how Nekron is a ruler of death, but Death of the Endless is the literal concept of death, so is above Nekron.

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My cats are really fucking upset about not getting to have pizza, what the fuck

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Wait, Hades is just the Shade, isn't he?

>>91761499
Did you ever read the Lucifer solo series Texas?

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>>91761819
The Gaiman one or the new one? Well, neither actually, though I have it on my shelf.

To be perfectly honest, I still haven't read the last two trades of Sandman, which I've had on my shelf for years. The last time I read the series I was probably not even old enough to drink so it's probably high time I re-read.

>>91761499
>I did too, actually. When someone asks nicely and is legitimately enthusiastic it's hard not to.
Pretty easy to tell them to fuck off, actually, since the current state of the board indicates that nobody actually reads the comics that are rec'd to them.

We can only hope that I'm wrong and that person is making themselves less of a filthy casual and reading the stuff that was pitched to them instead of just using the titles to rattle off to their non-nerd friends who think that shit is impressive cause nerd-chic is a thing now.

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And that was years before I had started getting into DC, so I didn't know that Dr. Destiny was a JLA villain, or the allusions to the JSA Sandman, or any of the stuff about Hector Hall and Lyta, or any of the references to old DC horror. I would definitely appreciate it much more now.

>>91761864
Carey's late 1990s to 2006 run. I would heavily recommend it, but also finish off Sandman first. Reading it before finishing Sandman wouldn't necessarily spoil Sandman, but you will probably notice some details about the ending of that if you pay close attention

>>91761809
I was gonna say it here, but >>91760004

They at least go to the same tailor.

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See, in high school was when I went through that "I'm much too mature for superheroes, I only read graphic novels now!" phase. I bought the entirety of Sandman, Lucifer, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, all those ones people rattle off when they say "Shazam! Ka-pow! Comics aren't just for kids anymore!"

But then never actually finished Sandman, and thus never moved onto Lucifer.

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No more Wonder Devil: The Woman Without Fear

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All's well that ends well!

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>>91761967
I mean from the amount of JSA I've read I think I know what happens at the end by now I think Morpheus dies or something and Lyta's babby becomes the new Dream?

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Speaking of Lyta, here's a completely unrelated Lyta.

Also Rags Morales takes the most clear musclefag fetish pandering character and makes her into generic 90's bikini babe.

wonder woman just feels so outdated and old fashion

its the costume

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Oh, apparently it's Ron Randall? Despite Rags being the only one credited on the cover?

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>>91762312
They definitely need to put her in armor, and she should use swords and shields and run around killing monsters. And that hair has to go, make it blonde, make it a giant ponytail.

Also her name is just so outdated. How about "Artemis"?

>>91762053
>"graphic novels"
Younger Tex, pls.

Y'know, I don't think I ever had that phase. Whether it was the utter lack of fucks to give or the possible high-functioning autism, I can't really say.

I do have to wonder though what is it about comics that make them so icky to the rube on the street. Can't be the often cited volumes of material, since people seem to love long running TV shows even if they make precisely dick amount of sense(looking at you, Lost). Nor can it be the content itself, since cape movies are bigger than ever. Can't be the typical fan either, as much as a pain in the ass we can be, since everyone tolerates sports fans without demonizing them, so that's just vanilla hypocrisy.

Something inherent in the medium itself has to be keeping the common fuck from getting into it. Maybe it's the often crap artwork that gets a disproportionate amount of attention. Maybe it's that most superheroes dress like strippers, and that makes letting anyone know you read them into an invitation for the ol' stink eye.

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Fuck you, Cassie. Tim is the only man for Conner.

>>91762193
Don't hover over if you do not want more details:

In short, yes. He broke the rule of not-harming another Endless by giving his son the death that he asked for years ago (Orpheus).
Dream realized that he was not adapting to changes well as a concept, and decided to let someone else take over. The Furies (which used Lyta as a host) invaded the Dreaming and tore large chunks of it apart. He did die,
and Lyta lost her son as he became the next personification of Dream

The ending of the series was actually foreshadowed all along, even in the first volume with the issue "24 Hours" (the diner):

All Bette's stories have happy endings. That's because she knows where to stop. She's realized the real problem with stories—if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death.

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>>91762402
There's a lot of reasons. One is the CCA totally neutered comics and made them literally for little kids for at least twenty years.

I also think the market going totally focused on the direct market made it a little too, I guess exclusive? Masturbatory? Some word for self-focused.

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X-Men set a lot of the stereotypes that still are commonly believed, that comics are super continuity-heavy soap operas. Basically take late-80's early 90's X-Men with the Lee or Liefeld art and that's how many still view comics, and that only really mean gross nerds care about them.

I mean, most of us ARE at least nerds, so it's not entirely false.

>>91762352
How about Killbabe the Mutilator? She can ride a pegasus with combat webbing and tons of pouches.

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Most superhero comics are not high-art, sure. At the end of the day it's fantasy action. But I love it and I see nothing wrong with spending a lot of time talking about something I love, or with holding it to a higher standard.

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>>91762573
Perfect, and we can sell interchangeable armor for her horse's action figure.

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Literally every panel Circe is in I love more.

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>>91762442
That last line is pretty heavy, man.

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Oh, and I love Veronica as well. This page is like her character in a nutshell.

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>You turned this girl into a monster!
>No I did not. I just turned a monster into a cooler monster with more suffering.

>>91762573
And she's a feminist character, yeah? She should be constantly angry and ranting about how men suck.

>>91762631
Joking aside, merchandising for WW is oddly lacking in dolls. You ever seen a Wondy doll before SHG? I haven't.

And thinking about it, it may be a mercy that she's never had a video game.

>>91762488
>>91762402
The expectation of a lot of people in the industry is that you're going to see a shift over the next 10-20 years as superhero stuff becomes more and more ghettoized in print. That doesn't really gel with the superhero movie boom, but *that* also doesn't really translate into comics sales and won't last forever.

I don't really rate Image's catalog so much (though it's easy to see why it appeals more to the creator) but with the rise of the comic equivalent of the young adult novel and you know, these young creatives who are owning independent stuff really hard and just seem to be getting more accomplished at younger ages - look at Tillie Walden - I can believe in a shift. This is something you saw pop up a lot when people were discussing Marvel's sales exec interview and PR disaster. I don't exactly buy it outright when hard data on all sales is not easy to get but I trust people who are involved in the industry to some extent. I remember Spike Trotman talking about how many more women are coming up in comics, that you'll be looking at a majority, and Steve Lieber backing that up with applicant and intern numbers for his own studio (which is admittedly in Portland).

American comics have always been in a very weird place with regards to genre diversity, which the CCA was a bit part of. Euro and Japanese comics *are* different.

>>91762683
I was actually thinking after I posted that, that if you have read Morrison's JLA (and I think you have), you already had the ending of Sandman spoiled because it is Daniel in those Dr. Destiny issues. I think there is also a cameo in a JSA issue with a reflection in a mirror looking at Lyta

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>>91762740
There actually have been a couple Wonder Woman Barbies, I know there was a big push for more dolls with the Agent Diana Prince stuff back in the day.

There was also gonna be a MASSIVE doll line to go along with her animated movie and TV cartoon that as supposed to come out in the 80's but never happened.

>And she's a feminist character, yeah? She should be constantly angry and ranting about how men suck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHOYDdB96JI

>>91762813
>bit part of
Whoops, a BIG part of.

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>>91762817
Yeah the JLA stuff is exactly what I was talking about, and there was the JSA arc where Hector Hall got trapped in the Dreaming by those two whatever the fuck things, and was running around dressed as the Jack Kirby Sandman

>>91762716
>>91762734
I always had this theory that Leslie would've become a new Dr. Cyber had this run continued.

Lo and behold, Ruckawoman Rebirth has totally-not-Leslie become the new Dr. Cyber. I get to feel smart for once! ... Even though the foreshadowing was always pretty strong, even if not entirely overt, but still.

>>91762488
Comics don't really win out on any front of distribution, value, production, accessibility. Like surface level a comic is easier to access than a novel but you have to develop visual literacy for the comic book format too. And a ton of comic fans never do that,

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>>91762813
Yeah it's near the point where superhero comics and everything else comics are almost two entirely separate industries. I think that's what you meant by "ghettotized" though.

Book stores have done wonders (heh) for changing the center of comics away from the comic shops.

>>91762907
Ah, when you first mentioned JSA, I assumed that you were referring to getting spoiled from JustStorytimingAnything threads. I admit that I have only been going in those threads since January or so, because I had assumed that JSA meant Justice Society of America

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Athena is being such a dick.

>>91762821
>that Futurama clip
Oof. I get that it's a joke, but it's still cringey as fuck.

>>91763008
Yeah, that's what I meant. That word might be more charged than intended. And the direct market totally skews things as you said yourself.

>>91763052
Io finally gets a kiss

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>>91763044
Oh lol, yeah I meant LITERAL JSA, not OUR JSA. If you didn't know those did indeed start as just straight up being storytiming JSA, but you probably gathered that.

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>>91763128
And she ain't even conscious for it.

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THIS issue.

>>91763044
They do stand for Justice Society of America since that's what JSAnon started with. The Just Storytiming Anything is something Anon came up with to justify the lack of actual JSA-related material.

>>91763052
>Athena is being such a dick.
Olympians being assholes. News at 11.

See what I'm talking about with these fucks? Their assholery gets so fucking tiring, and they're frankly holding the franchise back, since they're the go to element for when writers are fresh out of ideas for stories.

They need to just fuck off for a while.

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Now as I'm sure we all know this is ironically one of the most defining moments of Wonder Woman's history.

>>91763443
I wish I was on the internet when the Max Lord Evil Turn happened, just to see the reaction

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I do REALLY love Infinite Crisis, despite the obvious problems with it. It's not quite a guilty pleasure but I know it's not exactly a seminal work.

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>>91763616
I still so clearly remember threads for Blackest Night and Final Crisis, they were just so much fun. IC would have been even better.

>>91763128
>>91763190
>have crush on all-loving princess
>she barely registers you as a friendly acquaintance
>princess is fucking damn near everyone on the island
>except for you
Being Io is suffering.

>>91763627
So, after those few issues of X-Force last night, I had to continue by myself and read up to the start of X-Static. All I can picture right now is Doop with a camera just out of frame recording all of this

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Like with the Medusa fight, the conclusion is still a bit iffy, but I'll be goddamned if the issue itself isn't an absolute trip.

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>>91763893
It made me actually interested in X-Men, which is something that's a pretty big challenge. No offense to X-fans.

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Top panel is definitely cropped porn

>>91764387
Oh darn, I don't want to turn this into JSA 2.0, but did you see this (possibly fake) post?

>>91763722

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>>91764517
Doesn't sound too implausible. "He was brought back for a reason" sounds like some corporate baloney if I ever heard it, though.

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No birds were harmed in the making of this crossover event.

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I mean is it really that completely out of the question that maybe the JLA, who consist of and have access to the smartest minds in the entire universe, could have found SOME way to contain one guy with psychic powers?

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There is just so much that they could have done with the fallout of this, and they proceeded to do absolutely none of it.

>>91765031
Never liked Douche-Lord. Glad he got Diana'd.

>>91764634
Well, you could argue he WAS brought back for a reason. That reason being to pander to Richfags
Who apparently are more loud than numerous

>>91765184
Honestly I think the routes it does take are really fucking dumb. I kind of hate this and all the fallout from it.

>>91765388
>second spoiler
That's often the case in fandom.

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And I'm still not 100% sure if this happened because DC (Johns) wanted one of the big three to kill someone as setup for IC and Diana was the one whose image would be damaged the least, or if Johns and/or Rucka legitimately think Diana is the hero who does kill.

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Because obviously the heroes being corrupted was a theme at the beginning of IC. But then you have shit like Diana saying "I don't have villains because I take care of my villains"

>>91765088
This page. This fucking page...

Real talk, does anyone actually, real deal think she was in the wrong here? Because if so, frankly, you're an idiot. Or possibly projecting your anger for Max's nonsensical heel-turn onto Diana, in which case you're being petty as fuck.

>>91765031
Not at all, but it's a simple matter of time. If they had time to pull a psychic Faraday cage directly out of their asses, they would. But since Max is hell bent on using Clark to kill tens of thousands of people, it's a little bit now or never.

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BRB, leaving the issue to autodump for a few minutes

>>91765653
>>91765758
That Medusa arc didn't help either.

>>91765653
>or if Johns and/or Rucka legitimately think Diana is the hero who does kill.
To be absolutely fair, she is. She avoids if like the fuckin' plague of course, but it's very much a needs of the many kinda deal.

>>91765758
>"I don't have villains because I take care of my villains"
Whoever wrote that line needs to be publicly flogged. Just because she's willing to kill doesn't mean she's a bloodthirsty psychopath.

Honestly, the whole no-kill thing has instilled a sort of toxic naivete into readers and writers alike. Heroes taking even the slightest of morally grey actions is seen as sacrilege, which has the end result of making the heroes look like ineffectual chumps. It's all well and good to want preserve life, but if it comes down to a bunch of innocents vs a deranged murder, the former must take priority, because putting such a disproportionate amount of value on the life of a monster is fucking stupid and completely insane.

So yeah, I'm okay with Diana being willing to pull the trigger when there's no other option. Goodness forbid we have a bit of moral complexity in cape books.

>>91758998
You know, I think this is Diana at her absolute grouchiest. She was less Done With This Shit the two times Themyscira disappeared.

>>91766615
I never actually read Identity Crisis. Was she present for the vote?

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Sorry bout that, had a mini emergency.

>>91765789
It's not that it's wrong, it's just a very contrived situation. It's like in the Man of Steel movie with the Zod thing. They're in a situation where they literally have no choice.

But when you do a contrived thing like that, it's OK if it leads to some sort of development for the character. In the case of both MOS and this, there is no development.

Here you just have the characters go around and around saying "You shouldn't have killed him!", "I had no choice!", "Yeah but you shouldn't have killed him!" without any resolution.

It raises the question of "should Wonder Woman kill?" but never actually answers it.

>>91767239
I think the problem is that DC wanted Infinite Crisis to be their Civil War, that story where the particular issues with a character bubble up to the surface and explode, leaving the superheroic community divided. The problem with both stories is that those "issues" are, for the most part, totally made up, so much like how in Civil War libertarian poster boy Tony Stark becomes the government's bitch, here we have some nonsense about Wonder Woman killing and Superman not being "inspiring" anymore (fucking what?). The only thing that actually made sense was Batman's paranoia going too far and getting out of control.

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>>91767028
That is what I felt for a long time, too. But recently I've changed my mind on it. I think Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman should be allowed to be heroes who don't kill. They're the classics and embody the purest ideals of superheroes.

It's definitely more realistic for heroes to kill at least in extreme circumstances, I just don't feel like the trinity need to be realistic in that way. You wanna write a story about Wally West having to kill someone? Awesome. You wanna have Green Arrow have a crisis after he kills a guy? That's great storytelling. But to me the entire appeal of Superman and Wonder Woman is their general incorruptibility.

>>91765789
Yes...and fuck you. This isn't the authority. Heroes aren't supposed to kill. Diana isn't god. Max was defeated. Law enforcement doesn't execute a prisoner and neither should an unelected foreigner. Not to meant just two years prior to this we had the never ending battle... .

>>91767028
She never killed anyone before this. And she's fought darkseid. If you don't kill darkseid, the joker, and others I don't think you justify Max Lord.

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>>91767028
And you say
>Goodness forbid we have a bit of moral complexity in cape books.
But honestly I think since Watchmen there's been almost too MUCH moral complexity.

I guess to boil it down what I'm saying is, some characters absolutely should be more complex, but it's OK to have some be simple. The thing that annoys me a lot is when "simple" has to = "fun". Things can be simple without being for kids of all ages. Like Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Morally very simple but a great story.

>>91759718
Kate should totally hire her as a part-timer at her practice.

>>91765758
>who is Cheetah, giganta, Psycho, and Circe

>>91767809
>Heroes aren't supposed to kill
lmao what, Superman and Batman killed tons of folks during the Golden Age, are you going to tell Siegel and Finger they were wrong?

>>91767239
At this point my suspension of disbelief was shot. Of course you guys are reading Rucka unironically

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All that said, I would have been totally cool with them taking Wonder Woman in this direction if they had absolutely anything interesting to do with it, but instead we got "Who Is Wonder Woman?"

>>91767882
There have been a couple of times actually in Perez where she committed involuntary manslaughter, but she got upset over it. It's interesting because over the course of the 62 issues of the run she slowly gets closer and closer to losing it on a villain and killing them, but it makes it more dramatic when she pulls back. Though that's part of the benefit of being able to get in on the ground floor of your character's continuity.

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>>91767934
The problem would be that her magic guns teleport her to wherever they want her to be, so there would be a bit of a transportation problem.

>>91768001
COIC retconned that, that isn't relevant as an example.

But yes, those guys weren't perfect. For the love of christ almighty, that's why most continuity has changed since. S and S gave Luthor hair! Finger had Batman wear purple gloves and pack heat.


Some reason you left off Bob Kane.

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>>91767032
That's the interpretation I've been making this time around reading the run. Compared to Jimenez that we just read she seems overall a bit pissed, kind of like old Batman in TDKR.

Just about had it with all these motherfuckin gods in this motherfuckin plane of existence

>>91767070
Nope, I believe they specifically kept Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman out of it knowing that they were the most morally absolute. Hence why they had to brain neuter Batman when he walked in on them.

>>91768320
Bob Kane had pretty much nothing to do with Batman. Even the fact that he drew those issues himself is dubious.

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>>91768320
It's funny, because Siegel and Schuster obviously made Superman as a power fantasy who didn't need to give two shits about what anyone else thought of him. He was kind of made specifically to be above moral absolutism.

Batman I think wasn't made to kill that consciously, they were already basically copying Zorro and the Shadow and were like "those guys kill people, so so does Batman". And appropriately, Batman is an embodiment of vengeance to this day while Superman is about justice.

>>91768179
But the fact is she isn't someone who constantly kills crooks. She's not a police officer. If Diana kills people that isn't something Batman would work with.

But this was all Rucka doing what he wanted. Just before this, Kelley wrote never ending battle. Superman was faced with Lois, dead. Black demanded he kill him. And Superman said no. There wasn't a discussion. People with that kind of power don't get to kill other people. Then Rucka comes in and tosses out twenty years of story telling. He has Lois and Clark constantly angst over whether Diana was right.

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I once read this thing that Alan Moore wrote about Steve Ditko. Moore absolutely loves Ditko, he's just nuts about the guy. He was talking about how Ditko injecting his own beliefs on moral absolutism is what set the standard for the superhero going forward, and it's basically what the Golden Age DC heroes all became.

And of course as we know Rorschach is Moore saying "moral absolutism only works in fiction". A lot of people interpret that as condemnation, but judging by Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow and his admiration for Ditko, it's more just an observation.

>>91759931
>What I feel for you is far from paternal
Like that means anything where Greek Gods are involved.

>>91768545
Yes, I agree on Batman. He is a totem for ordinary peoples outrage at those who victimize others.

But I don't on Superman. Siegel and Schuster may have meant that, but so what. Marston meant Diana as bondage fetish. Superman evolved into something deeper. He's the only major cape hero from rural america. He's an alien, but at the same time, he's the best of us. Superman is about our better nature. Truth, Justice, and yes, the American way. Its all in there. That humanity is what makes him so different and powerful as a totem.

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Be sure to purchase Infinite Crisis and all the crossovers at your local comic book dealer.

>>91758835
Tex, I want to thank you. I've always been a fan of Diana but your Best of Wonder Woman series has made me a fan of the Amazons, her supporting characters, and has gotten me to love her. That Jimenez issue with Diana and Lois legit inspired me. Seriously, thank you so much for doing this.

>>91759974
>Hippolyta and Donna not in Elysium
They're either alive, or I call shenanigans.

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>>91768938
I'm glad, because she's inspired me as well, to be a much less cynical person and love more.

I know saying that kind of thing about funnybook characters is dorky, but I find nothing embarrassing about it.

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>>91769034
I refuse to storytime the Return of Donna Troy. But the answers to that lie in that confusing tome.

>>91768801
Moore loved Stan Lee too at one point. Read his 'the importance of...' article. He wrote one on Lee and one on Frank Miller. Its why I have such contempt for Moore post 2000. He really did just 180 on things because of his politics/mercurial temper.

The golden age to Bronze transition happened for different reasons. The comic code. The state of the World. Ditko is awesome. I remember reading about him trying to pitch characters and taking shit over it at Marvel because they weren't like Spider-man.

>>91759073
I guess Hades is a fan of The Shade.

>>91768930
All the cross overs?


>>91768938
It was co-written with Joe Kelly

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I never really understood why people would talk about how All-Star Superman and stuff like that inspired them, but something about Diana was the one hero (besides Spider-Man when I was a kiddo) who really resonated with me on a personal level.

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>>91769148
Moore turned on Lee?! That fucker. All the stuff he used to write about guys like Ditko and Lee were amazing and showed so much admiration and understanding, what the hell happened?

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It was very important that this moment take up an entire page.

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The guy is from Staten Island, Diana, he probably just got that black eye while he was on his way home from work.

>>91769056
You know the weird thing. Love Perez Wondy. She's still the same Mary Sue, but its earnest.

I enjoyed it but after thirty or so issues it got old. I picked up the Messner-Loebs stuff. Gold. He really deconstructs Perez-Wondy. I felt for her, for the first time during the contest.

The Byrne run, I appreciated seeing what a good Bronze age for Diana might have looked like.

After that, I think the series just became writers aping Perez. That gets stale. Its like Rucka.

>what you gonna do, Greg?

>Well I'll blind her...

>And then what?

>I'll...have her face a smart business person/villain

>Like Lex Luthor?

>No, She'll be a villain.

>Greg, do you have ANY original ideas that don't involve maiming Diana?

>......

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>unidentified civilian
I don't fink so

>>91769350
He denies that Lee created most of those characters and robbed Kirby et al of their rights and took credit for ideas that weren't his.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFV1HdO2pQ

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I'm actually gonna stop with that issue, because I've got five left which would be just barely past the image limit. So tomorrow we'll finish up Rucka's run.

There's a two issue arc called "Marathon" that was actually originally going to be an event called Amazons Attack (yes, like the one that did eventually come out), but they decided not to do it and Marathon is the leftover scraps of that story.

So yeah, thanks folks for reading as always. It's been good chatting.

>>91769752
>he fell for the "Stan Lee stole everything and banged Kirby's wife!" meme

>>91769752

What he says is bullshit. Lee sent out a letter...

>To Whom It May Concern:

>I would like to go on record with the following statement…

>I have always considered Steve Ditko to be Spider-Man’s co-creator.

>When I first told Steve my idea for a shy, teenaged high-school science student who’d be bitten by a radioactive spider, thus gaining the ability to stick to walls and shoot webs, Steve took to it like a duck to water.

>Steve’s illustrated version of Peter Parker/Spider-Man and his coterie of supporting characters was more compelling and dramatic than I had dared hope it would be. From his very first panel, Steve created and established the perfect mood and gestalt for Spider-Man.

>Also it goes without saying that Steve’s costume design was an actual masterpiece of imagination. Thanks to Steve Ditko, Spidey’s costume has become one of the world’s most recognizable visual icons.

>Nor can I forget to credit Steve with the many, many brilliant plots he furnished as the strip continued to increase in popularity with each passing month. So adept was he at story-telling, that Steve eventually did most of the plotting and illustrations while I, of course, continued to provide the dialogue and captions.

>I write this to ensure that Steve Ditko receives the credit to which he is so justly entitled.

>Yours sincerely,

>Stan Lee

http://dangerousminds.net/content/uploads/images/eelnatsoktidevets.jpg

>>91770037
hook line and sinker

>>91759842
I do like that Rucka writes Ares as having more of a modern voice.

>>91770007
Athena knows what happened to Morpheus

>>91758835

What a beautiful cover

I missed this Wonder Woman suit

>>91764765
>Lasso of Truth doesn't make Max stop mindfucking Clark

When did this bullshit of the Lasso not being a benign form of mind control start? Kanigher?

>>91765184
I dunno, her hiring Kate to be her lawyer was pretty boss.

Not really Wonder Woman related but since we were talking about Ditko:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxVO0fLHvA

I've somehow never seen this fucking amazing documentary on Ditko before. Moore mentioned it in that interview posted earlier and I stumbled upon it just now.

>>91768228
You say problem, I say hilarious running gag.

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>>91758978

>>91758978
And his lawyer then argued that he couldn't receive a fair trial because the lasso had compelled him to self incriminate.

>>91765789
It was the only safe option, too much risk in the alternatives.
>>91767809
>Max was defeated
He had a living weapon of mass destruction that he was threatening to use, that is justification for deploying lethal force.

>>91768864
>The Hague
It was one person, go to the country where he died and confesses/ask to be tried there.

>>91776788
TBF I doubt the lasso if truth is admissible evidence.

>>91768879
It kinda does, not everyone is Oedipus or Jocasta. Mythological Ares did give a shit about most of his kids in a paternal sense. Ironically of course he's pretty on side with the Amazons too.

>>91767934
NGL would read the SHIT out of that.

>>91768801
Too much criticism in comics is made on the assumption the comic is to get the author's beliefs out there and that you have to react to the beliefs IMO, without taking the work on its own.

>>91781242

>>91786172
>"That's bullshit, but I believe it."

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In a little bit I'm going to post the Wondie arc from Manhunter in here because of how much people have been referencing, non-JSA regs probably have no idea what we're talking about, and like someone said it's basically the only interesting thing done with the neck snap stuff.