Occultism & Magick: Unpublished Chumbley

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>>18131927
This is an image I've posted before, and don't have an HQ of, but there IS a pencil annotation on the back.

Penciled on the reverse “The transumation of the body as the Vessel, the mirror reflecting the knowledge of the Wiseblooded Mothers. Through the purification of the body the Seven breaths of Ruha Azh'ra Qarina"

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>>18131943
Never before seen:

"Stang and Feather"
Under the full moon the lower point of the stang enters the Other Realms, perhaps touching the sigil of Lilya.

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>>18131955
Never before seen:

"Right Eye"
Ellipses with hinds of magickal script suggest intersecting dimensions in the pupil (lel, nope, this is archonic projection, hands down). Further script is glimpsed in the edge of the iris and lashes. The Wheel of Sight is present, and on careful examination, a number of sigils.

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>>18131973
Altar 110
This would appear to depict the altar of a Sabbatic Working rising from the magic circle which has created circular ripples in the astral flux. The top of the altar has become gilded, blessed with the magical scripts and the icon of the trident eye. The conjuration of the circle is indicated by ribbon like magickal script and two staves, or columns, forming the gateway. The Wheel of Sight indicates we are witnessing this through astral vision. Sigils stir in the astral flux.

>NOTE
I WILL give you the other series of gesture illustrations provided YOU give to ME some indication that you're working the praxes of DBoE and will, y'know, use 'em.

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>>18131984
Never before seen:

Untitled.

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>>18131992
Never before seen:

Untitled.

Is this basically a series of mudras?

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>>18132015
In essence.

I'm mostly posting it because it gives the proper method of performing the Pentalphic sign which is pretty fuckin' crucial if you want to practice DBoE.

Note the amount of tenseness and flexion in the thumb. This isn't just 'raise up your hand' you'll need to put strain on your tendons. It should be uncomfortable.

>>18132013
Seen, but now in HQ:
Between Light and Dark.
Indications in the notes tell me that pic related is Lilis Zhariel.

>>18132033
Please explain to a neophyte what the gestures mean or represent

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>>18132033
Another one that's in a lower quality form but now in HQ.

>>18132038
Pentalphic signs represent both the pentagrams. One hand outward, one hand inward, representing the normative and inverse pentagrams.

It's used for Rite of the Black Oracle, a monthly rite and one performed before the other rituals of the Cultus Sabbati year.

>>18132062
Sigils
We may be looking into a sphere of pure condensed astral flux. Here is Order, with precise sigils and carefully painted magickal script. A drop falls from the eye/orifice/stone, perhaps to pass through the nexus of the inside of the sphere into the triangle of evokation, which itself is sigilized. Faint scripts stir at the edge like clouds, with even less manifest lines in the cloud itself. Perhaps a meditation on the process of receiving sigils.

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>>18132075
Son of a pigfucker.

Description for pic related.

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>>18132101
This one is simply titled "Cain".

Bump nice art.

>>18132117
Thanks.

I'm particularly fond of: >>18131973

>>18131927
Gestures are gay.

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>>18132142
Ur mum is gay for my benis, m8.

>>18132155
You're autistic.

Bump?

>>18131927
Flashing gang signs homes?

>>18131984
Dig it.

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>>18131927
Hey, the hand thing I've been waiting for.

>>18132358
That we've all been waiting for.

Think I'm going to try to scan Blazing Dew of Stars next.

>>18132357
?
Is this a request for the rest of the materials?

>>18132451
Yes. Post everything.

>>18131927
Sup /x/. Are there any spirits you can evoke or get in touch with who'll just hang out with you, maybe do small things for you in exchange for small offerings, bro it up with you, etc.?

I get lonely easily and would appreciate another presence around whenever I want.

>>18131927
Ii cant even force my hand to do most of those is that normal?

>>18131927
There could be a thousand souls that clench any combination of these hand gestures, the moment they take the plunge and end their life, each and every night. It follows that a controller who lies outside of our perceptions could maintain a stable of deranged and half-dead individuals to hold any number of postures or gestures of significance continuously. The controller could then plunge persons who reject conformity, and seek the source, into nightmare worlds of impossible complexity through connection to the morphic resonance trap he has set up. Or maybe this is all horse shit.

I am a NEET. I have been under psychiatrists and psychologists since I was a child. Was told I was depressed, anxious, obsessive compulsive, attention deficit, autistic, oppositional defiant disorder, schizotypal, and more I can't remember. I have never held a job for longer than six months. I dropped out of uni and community college. I have spent three years homeless with crust punks and anarchists. The only reason I stopped and went back home was because my bipolar exploded into full-blown schizoaffective when I was 21 and I was jailed and forcibly hospitalized. I have tried to commit suicide thrice. First by wristcutting in high school. Second with heroin after my girlfriend left me. Third by hanging after being diagnosed. By some sick twist of fate I have survived every attempt. My life is an endless maze of suffering. I feel no connection to society or even to my family. I abuse cannabis, cigarettes, alcohol, acid, cocaine, xanax, heroin, or anything else I can get my hands on. Except for these moments of chemically enhanced contentment, my cravings to escape this life never cease. I got into chaos majik through Biroco's infamous "Drop Everything" essay. I have devoured the works of Carroll, Hine, Crowley, Spare, Regardie, Fortune, and others. I used to consider myself a shaman. I would make sigils into patches and wear them on my clothing. But now, I fear I am not such a creature. Not even as metaphysician could I heal myself. And what next? My family, my doctors, no one has ever understood me. They tread fiercely upon my dreams. All I seek is a more magical world. Instead they are intent upon hammering out the kinks in my mind that I have grown to love. As if such a thing could be done. As if their primitive sciences are even capable of bending my spirit to their will. Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going with all this. Just needed to vent. I feel like killing myself right now. >>>/r9k/ I'll show myself out.

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>>18132958
>the moment they take the plunge and end their life
Today is the 12th anniversary of Chumbley's death.

Happy Greater Feast, Alogos!

>>18132964
I'm sorry you have problems but holy shit that was pathetic, kys my man
and don't fuck up this time

>>18133002
This whole world is pathetic. I'm voting for Trump and hopefully he'll send mentally ill people like me to the gas chamber. I've given up on succeeding at anything, even suicide, on my own.

>>18131927
Wtf I was walking around last night and I felt this entity take over me and I couldn't stop making gestures just like that and my eyes rolled back in my head and I started convulsing but I remained standing and my eyes were open but just the whites. It was so weird and sudden, I didn't feel like myself

>>18133063
You must read more books like Ape to learn the rules of roleplaying properly.

>>18133063
This is why I liked these threads better when they were on /his/.

Even if they were pretty much inactive.

>>18132806
Let me be the first to tell you that you shouldn't use spirits to assuage your loneliness.

However, if you really want something like a companion, you could invest time into creating a thoughtform/tulpa. That's sort of abusing it's purpose though.

>>18131927
HENSHIN-A-GO-GO BABY

>>18131927
May I use magick to give myself discipline, or as a tool of selfimprovement?

i just wanna be able to commit myself to my studies and was wondering what could help.

thanks

>>18131927
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNYKFtlzZ14

>>18133309
my personal experience tells me that you need discipline to do magic

In what order does one do them in? For how long does one hold each gesture?

>>18133309
>May I use magick to give myself discipline, or as a tool of selfimprovement?

Meditation would likely serve you better.

>>18133337
belated kek

>>18131927
Is this the different ways spiderman shots web?

Is there any evidence that either:

A) Chumbley's system is sourced from anywhere other than a mashup of pseudo-historical imagery and pop cultural conceptions of what "dark" magic should look like,

or,

B) Anyone has ever used the system to reach any level of spiritual attainment or magical achievement.

?

Because seriously, it looks like he's just found a racket selling expensive books containing appropriately GRIMDARK looking illustrations and rambling illegible nonsense with just enough references to genuine magical concepts thrown in to make it seem authentic.

Certainly dozens of purported authors and new publishing houses specializing in pumping out their works are imitating his model to great financial success.

Put together a few hundred pages of black metal lyrics and "medieval woodcut by way of HR Gieger" artwork, wrap it in an expensive looking leather , sell that shit at $500 a pop for the "LIMITED PRINT RUN SUPER SECRET SIGIL EDITION", and you're laughing your way to the bank.

>>18134007
Why don't you look into the material yourself?

>>18134007

The artwork is pretty cool though. But is it a book for a ritual room or a coffee table?

>>18134007
>B) Anyone has ever used the system to reach any level of spiritual attainment or magical achievement.

I'd demand the same of chaos magic, the Golden Dawn, the AA, really any system you can name. The AA, for example, hasn't produced an unequivocal success since Crowley.

>>18134009

I've flicked though some of it, which is where my initial impression of it comes from. But I'm open to changing my mind if the appropriate evidence is posted. I have to admit there is something intrinsically attractive about his work, it appeals on an aesthetic level, but that doesn't mean there's any genuine oomph behind it (my experience is that generally, the more flash a work has, the less substance there is behind it).

I've written off more or less all of his imitators, but I'm open to the possibility that Chumbley has something more genuine on his hands, simply because he seems to have started from scratch as opposed to having jumped on a bandwagon.

I'm also interested in accounts from people who've actually worked with the practices, which I have no intention of doing myself anytime soon, since I don't want to throw off my current training regime by throwing in unknown quantities.

>>18134013
>I'd demand the same of chaos magic, the Golden Dawn, the AA, really any system you can name. The AA, for example, hasn't produced an unequivocal success since Crowley.

So would I, frankly, but that's neither here nor there.

>>18134019
>So would I, frankly, but that's neither here nor there.

On the contrary, if the AA is failing to produce, then it may be that no magical system will necessarily result in meaningful attainment. In which case, the question is irrelevant.

I was impressed by what it was doing to/for the Ape. I could even see results spilling over into this little corner of the abyss.

>>18132451
Yeah, this started really interesting me when GDbro was tossed out after his travel/illness.

>>18134032
>GDbro was tossed out after his travel/illness.

Out of wch GD?

>>18132964
You are just weak and unable to overcome difficulties in life. Magic has nothing to do with the messaggio you've made. Have a shower. Take your meds and go get a job. You can say 'bohoo no wan understands me' when your 15, not as a full grown adult. The only one that should understands you is yourself. Now, and with 'now' I mean this exact second your reading this, stop autocommiserating and go get a job. A real job, not the cashier at some shitty store, go cut some trees, go work in a farm, find something that when you come home at evening you are so tired you just want to go to bed. I'm telling you cause I've lived in a similar situation when mum died and found that manual work has saved my life. Do something man.

>>18134043

What a tool.

>>18134029
>On the contrary, if the AA is failing to produce, then it may be that no magical system will necessarily result in meaningful attainment. In which case, the question is irrelevant.

I'm not so sure - everyone knows that Western magic, especially the groups and systems which are more widely known, is in something of a downhill run (how long this state has lasted and what is causing it is up for debate, but I don't think anybody will claim we're in a golden age), but there are enough fringe groups and systems out there that I don't think you can say that "the mainstream orders failing to produce = nobody is achieving anything anywhere." AA/GD* represent the most mainstream face of Western magic, but they're far from it's entirety. I think they're also held back by a lot of problems that have nothing to do with their inherent praxis, especially AA.

*You can include Chaos Magic if you want, but I consider it something of it's own phenomenon that doesn't really belong in the same category as AA/GD and similar structured systems. That said, I think, like AA/GD, Chaos Magic has definitely failed to achieve what it set out to do, both on a wider scale and on the level of individual groups and practitioners.

And of course there are Eastern systems, which are a whole subject in themselves, but generally speaking, don't suffer from the same lack of intellectual, practical and social cohesion as the Western systems (although they have their own unique problems).

Anyway, I'm interested in Chumbley's system as it stands in it's own cost/benefit analysis and authenticity, not Chumbley as compared to any other system.

>>18134048

He kind of has a point. Magic draws a lot of damaged people, but is generally a very poor tool for fixing them. Although I don't think his prescription of intensive manual labor is going to be any better.

>>18134054
>I don't think you can say that "the mainstream orders failing to produce = nobody is achieving anything anywhere."

In the absence of empirical evidence, of course I fucking can. It would be foolish to believe otherwise.

>>18134055

Like psychoanalysis, some get better, some get worse, some stay the same.

Anon's exercise in blaming the victim had nothing to do with helping the victim.

>>18134072
> It would be foolish to believe otherwise.

From where I am currently sitting I cannot empirically observe anyone farming rice, therefore it would be foolish for me to believe that there is any more rice in the entire world.

>>18134072
>In the absence of empirical evidence, of course I fucking can. It would be foolish to believe otherwise.

How do you figure? We're not talking about science or medicine, where the mainstream ideally comes to reflect the most effective practices and accurate understandings through a process of experimentation, trial and error and peer review.

Magic is an underground and unregulated pursuit, and the groups in question were established as it's "mainstream" face in the Western world for reasons that are entirely historical (they're tied to certain famous individuals and used their early reputations to gain relatively large followings) and have nothing to do with the efficacy of their teachings.

>>18134072
>Anon's exercise in blaming the victim had nothing to do with helping the victim.

I'd disagree. "Victim blaming" is a valid concept where the problem in question is a past event which was genuinely out of the control of the individual, but when you're talking about ongoing circumstances to which the individual is central (ie. their own life), then I don't think it's "victim blaming" to tell someone that they have within them the potential solution to their own problems, if they make the (admittedly considerable) effort to apply the solution. Although again, I'm a little baffled by his recommendation of exhausting manual labor.

>>18134032
You want to email me or should I email you?

>>18134007
>B) Anyone has ever used the system to reach any level of spiritual attainment or magical achievement.
Chumbley, Soror PA, Schulke, Mike Howard, etc.

Here's the bibliography of all the strains of elaboration I can find in DBoE, from my like 80 pgs of notes:

>Western
Sefer Yetzirah, commented by Aryeh Kaplan (particularly chapter six)
Book of Enoch
Thunder: The Perfect Mind
Essentially all of Rudolph's Gnostic material with special attention to the Mandeans.
Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster
The Black Brick (Complete Golden Dawn)
Liber 65
Liber 7
Liber Stellae Rubeae
The Vision and the Voice
AHA (Crowley)
Agrippa's Second Book of Occult Philosophy
Complete Austin Osman Spare (including artwork)
The first Typhonian trilogy (MAYBE the second)
Additional MSS XXXXX (Sloane)
Liber Asassiel (see above)
Sacrificial Universe (David Chaim Smith)
Kabbalistic Mirror of Genesis
Complete Magician's Tables
Strong's Concordance, Godwin's Qabbalah, Numberman.net, Bill H.'s tables, etc.

>Eastern (Near/Far)
Gathas/Yasna (or the Avesta, these are Zoroastrian scriptures. The material of most note is related to Zahak and/or various dragons)
A King's Book of Kings (see above)
“Yezidism: Its Background, Observances, and Texts”, I think some of the Yezid influence comes via the hymns in this book.
Anything that will give you a basic foundational understanding of Arabic astronomy/astrology/astrotheology, etc.
Kali Kaula by Jan Fries
Kaulajnananirnaya
Kiss of the Yogini
Triadic Heart of Shiva
Anandalahare
Hevajra Tantra
Shri Yantra and the Sidereal Astrology (Lokanath)
Tantraloka
Paratrisikavivirana

>Afro-Carib material:
African Divination Systems: Ways of Knowing
Way of the Orisa
Kindoki
Palo Mayombe: The Garden of Blood and Bones
Pomba Gria and the Quimbanda
Exu
At the Crossroads

>Sabbatic Background:
Xoanon and most of Three Hands.
All works of Carlo Ginzberg
All works of Emma Wilby
Various early witchcraft manuscripts, bibliography coming...

>>18134089
>From where I am currently sitting I cannot empirically observe anyone farming rice,

Not a very good parallel, really. I can see rice, touch it, taste it, smell it. What, in your analogy, is the rice?

It's gold nuggets like Crowley and others left us. Where is that, today?

And where are the great minds? Say what you will about Ol' Baldy, but he had a first-rate mind. The best we get these days are giant heads stuffed with 19th-c twaddle.

There are exceptions, sure, but magi like Alan Moore and Joel Biroco have made greater contributions to magic than any two AA taken together. They've had real impact on real people across oceans and cultures.

Why don't the western schools produce specimens such as these?

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I'm in the market for a hard copy of the lesser key of Solomon whose publication is the best?

>>18134097
>Magic is an underground and unregulated pursuit,

"By their fruits shall ye know them."

>>18134105
>I'd disagree.

Good for you.

>>18134147
Henson's.

>>18134144
There are two specimens posting in the thread right now. One of 'em worked with Joel. The other publicly disseminates materials redacted by multiple initiatory lineages in a public venue that sees more daily total page hits than there are people all A.'.A.'. lines globally.

>>18134152
Thanks ape!
Have a bump!

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>>18133117
I'm Mister Meseeks!

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>>18134144
It's cause anthropotechnology essentially doesn't exist yet. Even mainstream psychotherapy and psychiatric medicine is hardly effective, why would you expect cult therapy and cult medicine to be more effective? People don't change unless they want to. When they do they can attribute it to a book, a movie, a friend, a hobby, or whatever, but the simple truth of the matter is that it is material conditions (the brain itself) that effects change rather than ideal conditions (mind is not over matter). Go ahead and study the occult if yoh like. Practice it if you think it's fun. But it's hardly gonna change you anymore than anything else you do will change you.

>>18134152
Mitch henson?
That shits 160 dollaro tfw poor

>>18134162
Copy in the library.
Other than that, Peterson, though it's still a touch on the pricey side.

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>>18134169
I feel it.... I use your library alot just for longer books I find I'm more apt to finish them if I have them in print
and peterson's is only 38$ on amazon rn

>>18134152

Flattery might get you anywhere, but I was excepting us.

>>18134161
>Practice it if you think it's fun. But it's hardly gonna change you anymore than anything else you do will change you.

Given your life experiences, it's understandable that you believe this. We don't quite live in the same world, though.

>>18134177
"Nothing can be taught, everything can be learned"

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

Maybe I phrased that wrong. The occult has about the same chance of changing you as a self-help book, or a book of exoteric philosophy. But you are the one who puts in the change.

Can't you see the absurdity of your paradigm of guru worship? It's an avoidance of personal responsibility at worst and a way of ego posturing at best.

How do you know Crowley attained? Because he wrote books about it? Maybe if we were talking about the art of being an author instead of the art of the occult that would be a sensible argument.

Is Harold Bloom an adept? Lmao.

>>18134144
The point of my post was that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Were I to follow your rules, I would be a fool to assume their is no more rice in the world. Though since you didn't catch that and took it entirely literally, Ill explain.

There is no parallel for the rice, its not a metaphor. Just because there are no "gold nuggets" being left behind at the moment, that is not evidence that they are not in development, or that they have not been published and waiting to be discovered.

Also I would agree that Moore Is certainly a great mind, how many great minds do you want in a generation? Your "exceptions" prove that there are developments being made. Do you think that Moore or Biroco havent studied existant schools of thought?

Im not trying to be argumentative here, Im just pointing out that there are things happening.

>>18134201
>Can't you see the absurdity of your paradigm of guru worship?

Oops. Looks like you tipped your hand.

>>18134209
>The point of my post was that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Nope and you're a bit confused. I'm saying that I have no epistemologically valid reason to believe that these critters exist. That's not the same as arguing they cannot exist. When one presents itself, we'll reopen the case.

>>18134209
>Do you think that Moore or Biroco havent studied existant schools of thought?

And of course they have! but neither are the product of any western school. That is precisely why I used them as exemplars.

My interest is more specifically in the AA. The whole point of the program was to produce ubermenschen. It was an answer to Nietzsche's concerns over the death of God. Crowley's program seems to be producing few, if indeed any, such ubermenschen.

For people like me, this presents a problem that ought to be solved, one way or another.

>>18134220
> I have no epistemologically valid reason to believe that these critters exist.
Not believing that they exist, and stating that they do not exist are different things.

You can say that you have not seen evidence to indicate that they produce results, you cannot say that they do not produce results.

>>18134245
>neither are the product of any western school.
If they have studied the school, are they not a product of it?

>>18134220
No one can save you but yourself.
>>18134245
How many Nietzscheans are ubermensch? Was Nietzsche himself even an ubermensch? (well, maybe if you judge attainment by the number of books produced but that only raises the question of whether you should study philsophy instead of the occult)

Anybody have a .pdf, .mobi, or .epub of Gordon White's "The Chaos Protocols?" Doesn't seem to be in Ape's mega.

>>18134253
>Not believing that they exist, and stating that they do not exist are different things.

That's true.

Add to that a fairly small world, these days, and the absence of evidence becomes more and more significant.

>If they have studied the school, are they not a product of it?

Of course not.

>>18134268
>How many Nietzscheans are ubermensch?

I think you've lost the thread.

>>18134304
I can guarantee you that any program that offers to transform average joes into ubermensch is probably a scam. But if you don't believe me, I do have some snakeoil to sell you. If you buy it, it will prove that I am a magician and that money magic works /s. Crowley was quite literally the EA Koetting of his day.

>>18134304
>Of course not.
why?

>and the absence of evidence becomes more and more significant.
No it doesn't, that's the point of the statement. Absence of evidence is not absence of evidence. Absence of evidence means nothing, it is neutral, it doesn't matter how large the sample is. Also the argument of the "fairly small world these days" is a double edged sword because of the phenomenon of data glut. Just because there is more, and more easily accessible data, doesn't mean it's good data and without proper context, the data can be misconstrued.

>>18134106
[email protected]

>>18134353

I'm not a product of AA either, though I seem rather closely entwined with it. If I'm not, Joel most certainly is not.

>>18134353
>Absence of evidence is not absence of evidence.
Getting a bit too buttflustered to read your own post? I would've thought ubermensch had better shit to do than shitpost all day with the same arguments Christians use to defend their God.

>>18133603
I'd also very much like to know this. Where can I look to find that information?

>>18134395
>>18133603
Are you working the Dragon Book of Essex?
It's utterly irrelevant unless you're working the praxes they are meant for.

>>18134421
No, I'm not. So I can't use sick mudras without working that book? Seems backwards.

>>18134428
I said like two weeks ago you cats only get the Pentalpha explained and anything beyond that will require some indication that you're working the Sabbatic Path.

Mudras is the simple answer to what these gestures are; they're Initiatory, and are probably the Grade Signs for the 14 degrees of the Column of the Serpent Cross.

If you really really want to figure out how they're used, you'll apply basic logic to the number of Dragon Stars delineated in DBoE and the biology of your hand.

I'd honestly figured out the basic form of the gestures before the texts arrived just by sitting and thinking about it for a few minutes, the images only give fine detail to the positions of fingers not in use.

>>18134442
But I *am* working the sabbatic path. I dug up a skeleton for bone harvesting last week!

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>>18134479
Lemme see.

>>18134442
Ok. Treat me like an absolute newb: where does one begin with the Sabbatic Path? My assumption is that DBoE is not the first step on this path. What is? Is there an outline for the order of books/components that one must go through? This is tickling my fancy but I don't want to jump in at a random/incorrect point of the path and fuck it up. Please advise, great Harambe of Djehuti

>>18134532
>My assumption is that DBoE is not the first step on this path.
That's a pretty huge can of worms.

Azoetia came out before DBoE. I do find Azoetia to be very comprehensible. Only in vague senses. Others find Azoetia perfectly comprehensible but can't understand DBoE.

Chumbley initiated himself into witchcraft using the ritual found in ONE: Grimoire of the Golden Toad.

DBoE implies huge amounts of preliminary work in other initiatory systems (indeed, it grew out of the Typhonian Order), Azoetia has a fever-dream quality, and ONE is very simple and rooted in pretty decent understandings of history.

>>18134543
>do find
no NOT find Azoetia to be very comprehensible.

To wit: I could only understand parts of it after working the Dragon Book faithfully for like three-ish months.

ONE has an academic companion called The Leaper Between that delves into the history of toad bone amulets.

>>18134543
So what you're saying is, go through ONE, and then attempt the DBoE? I am a poo in loo and my entire life has been spent working with Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist practices, and as such I know almost nothing about Western practices, let alone what you're talking about. Could you be a bit more concrete? I am of course going to look the Sabbatic Path, Cultus Sabbati, and Chumbley up, but I'd very much appreciate your input.

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>>18134508
Blessed is he who has not seen and still believed.
>>18134532
It certainly wouldn't hurt to read through Opuscula Magica I and II first but I have not actually engaged the praxis of DBoE as it requires certain astrological events.

>>18134386
I never made a claim to be anything of the sort.

Are you getting too buttflustered to present a coherent statement?

>>18134568
Oh wow.
I work some of this stuff because it's hard to find a Kaula initiate in my location and Chumbley integrates some bits of tantra.

Um, if you have zero, at ALL, basis in Western esoterica it's going to be hard to point you in the right direction without fundamentally coloring your view on things.

Cultus Sabbati represents a synchretic and trans-historical form of witchcraft, designed to be recognizable to anyone West of Iran whose lived in the last few thousand years. It takes inspiration from a few main sources and elaborates them.

If you want the like historical understanding of all this, maybe read the works of Carlo Ginzberg, Emma Wilby, and, um, this thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe%27s_Inner_Demons

Chumbley comes from a line of Crowley's students. You'll want to get familiar with him, will probably find his take on yoga simplistic and wrongheaded (take it easy on him, he was one of the first to bring it West along with a few others) but his insight into just the western mode of practice is pretty crucial.

Grimorium Verum will probably give you a good model of how Chumbley and other people simulating the obscure bits of Western practice deal with spirits.

>>18134577
>unable to read his own post
wew, lad

>>18134570
If you're at least working Azoetia and/or other Cultus Sabbati materials, gimme a throwaway email and I'll send you the rest of the materials.

>>18134581
You've given me a lot of stuff to read. Thank you. I will get to it, and hopefully it will resonate with me. If not, I can always continue to be a poo in loo. I bet you're jelly of the fact that I have easy access to Kulamarga and other Shaivite lineages :^)

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>>18134593
>93
Yes actually I'm incredibly jelly given I'm probably the leading expert on the subject in two hundred miles in any direction, and I'm not even incredibly well learned.

>>18134589
>still shitposting with no actual statement or question
wew, lad

>>18134600
Oh yeah? What country do you reside in?

Also, saith Yoshimitsu: "Overconfidence is the greatest enemy!"

Although I wouldn't put it beneath you if you live in rural Estonia or whatever, then yeah, you'd probably be the only person who knows what Kaula is, and it would make you the leading expert by default.

What if I forsook Kaula and other Shaivite lineages and took up faggy Gaudriya Vaishnavism? Does that trigger you? :^)

I kid, I wouldn't do that to you, O Harambape.

Harambe Krishna Harambe Krishna
Krishna Krishna Harambe Harambe
Harambe Rama Harambe Rama
Rama Rama Harambe Harambe

I think I might have just triggered myself.

>>18134622
>rural Estonia
Rural US. Very very rural. The only valid lineages I know of are on the West coast, and there are some meme loving fucks outside of four hundred miles that know some things, enough to dupe people, but I've been constantly warned against them. There's a large city about 300 miles out that I would not doubt has a more learned men than me.

I set the limit at 200 to account for maybe one of them living in suburbia. There's a smaller city closer, but the only activity in the slightest out there is your normative Vajrayana dharma center.

There's a guy local to me that knows things, but I'm pretty sure I've surpassed the guy at this point. He's a scumbag huckster like the guys farther out anyway.

So, all the shitposting about occult stuff being "just roleplaying" has given me an idea:

I want to run a tabletop RPG campaign as a massive hypersigil, with a fake hieroglyphic language where certain characters about which the party is likely to feel strongly are actually sigils, dungeons with puzzles the solving of which involves the fictional characters making certain movements that in reality would constitute a ritual, NPCs who represent spirits with whom I work, and so on, all combined to produce a single major effect (and possibly a few minor ones).

Would this be possible without railroading the players all to hell?

Would it be morally wrong to do it without letting the players know they're participating in the casting of a giant months-long spell?

>>18134581
Random here what would you recommend as a first read for Chumbley

>>18134628
Hmm, why do you remain in Bumfuck Nowhere, USA? Is there anything tying you down? Don't you want to go somewhere else? Come to India, we can poo in the streets and get initiated into the Kulamarga.

>>18134632
>I want to run a tabletop RPG campaign as a massive hypersigil, with a fake hieroglyphic language where certain characters about which the party is likely to feel strongly are actually sigils, dungeons with puzzles the solving of which involves the fictional characters making certain movements that in reality would constitute a ritual, NPCs who represent spirits with whom I work, and so on, all combined to produce a single major effect (and possibly a few minor ones).
Every played the ARG Ingress?

>>18134640
I know of it. The same company ended up making Pokemon Go, I believe.

Why do you ask?

>>18134635
ONE and/or Leaper Between. It's the simplest.

Next depends on tastes, if you're ok with highly technical ritual magick, DBoE, if you're ok with vague dreamlike recommendations, Azoetia.

>>18134636
Finishing my masters. Also I'm comparatively broke.

>we can poo in the streets and get initiated into the Kulamarga.
I have a contact in India now and one that's been there and back. I'm pumping them for info. I'd dearly love to go but hardly know where to start to find valid gurus. I've a few names. I know most of the Kashmiri population are mostly in exile.

Once I finish this professional degree I'm going to prioritize West Coast so I can get a bit closer to the lines I know of but it'll be a gamble what's going to be available at what times.

>>18134650
Thanks once again for the recommendation!

>>18134650
Especially now with shit in Kashmir going down.

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>>18134658
>tfw you will never be a pandit deb8ing Abhinavagupta with your clansfolk
Just fuck my shit up, my poo-in-loo friend.

>>18134662
No kidding. The amount of fake gurus in every state (that I've been to) here hurts my mind. I was born in Le Wrong Generation™, for sure, senpai. Tfw few legit sadhus around me to deb8 with.

>>18134662
Fuck.

So, Discordianism is a joke. But is it JUST a joke?

Reading the Principia Discordia now.

>>18134787
Read The Illuminatus! Trilogy next. Then Foucault's Pendulum.

>>18134822
^That.

>>18134112
>Pomba Gria

Pomba Gira*

>>18134822

Illuminatus! is probably the most dangerous book out there, at least it was for my generation.

>>18134822
>>18134825
Will do. Grant Morrison is a major inspiration to me and I know he's heavily influenced by Wilson, so I'm eager to read Illuminatus!

When should I read Prometheus Rising? The myth of Prometheus is cool as fuck and Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein: A Modern Prometheus" is my favorite novel ever.
>>18134834
Definitely want to read it, then.

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I have all the Chumbley Grimoires and have been focusing on the pentalphic gestures trying to infer what they might be. One of the lines is missing for the second pinky so I might write my own. My email is lady_gray on yahoo dot com thank you!

>>18134839
>When should I read Prometheus Rising?

When evs. You might like, Cosmic Trigger, too.

>>18134147
Peterson is pretty good. It's simple, sturdy, contains everything, and looks good on my bookshelf which is exactly what I wanted.

>>18134787
Discordianism is when your higher self is simultaneously an angel from Sirius and a six foot tall white rabbit from County Kerry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7QhT39NBuE

>>18134833
Thank your, grammar nazi.

>>18134840
Aye.

fuck everything I'm sticking with chaos

>>18134849
https://youtu.be/hBvpxzl54D8

>>18134861
Top 3 books on chaos magick?

>>18134856
I normally don't mind normal words, but in the case of names I'm pretty strict.

>>18134874
Kaos 14
The Black Ship
Pseudonomicon

>>18134876
My bad, my notes are really riddled with typos as it's mostly just first pass thoughts once I get the records of the rites down.

I need to go through and organize this fuckhuge pile of Dragon Notes into some sort of coherent whole.

>>18134882
>Kaos 14
>The Black Ship
>Pseudonomicon

I honestly can't tell if you're jesting.

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>>18134903
Does it look like I'm being jocular?

>no mega link in this entire thread

>>18134650
Valid gurus? I'm going to India next year to find a guru. Would you be willing to share some of these names?

>>18134920
This isn't exactly a library thread.
Also, show of hands for who DIDN'T see the link the last time I posted it (weekly, for like four years).

https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ!gIxl2bJZ

>>18134925
Btw, why are you broke Ape? Can't you just conjure up some money? :^)

>>18134934
Yeah, Ape. Why don't you purchase lead in bulk and use the lapis philosophorum to convert it into gold for MASSIVE PROFIT?

Ouit7yi ug9}{-
por que hablan en ingles amiguitos?

>>18134934
>>18134943
Not too broke to pay bills, or afford the copy of Tantraloka that just came to my door, just too broke to jet to India on a whim to take a risky search for hypothetical gurus.

Working on that conjuring tho.

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>>18132451
>Think I'm going to try to scan Blazing Dew of Stars next.

When you have time, do it (if possible). That'd be neato.

>>18135029
Soon, friend.

>the five-fingered hand of eris has six fingers
wat

>>18135020
>Working on that conjuring tho.

Not to butt in or anything, and Im not one of you more experienced ceremonial magicians, but money stuff is a specialty of southern conjure and hoodoo, you may want to look into it if you havent Thoth.

You may also want to start a donation thing for the library. I know Id toss a few bucks at you.

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>>18135035
};^)

>tfw when full moon tonight
feelsgoodman.

>>18135059
Don't look too far into dem fractals, ya'll.
-t.The Void

>>18135156
>full moon
>lunar eclipse
>yesterday was the anniversary of Alogos' greater feast
>today I got my copy of Tantraloka

These are auspicious times, mate }:^)

>>18135169
So what is Alogos' greater feast about?

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>>18135219
It's about that thing where you stop metabolizing and die.

Daily reminder:

>A single test serves to separate the true Magus from the Hierophant. The false magus is never able to give a simple meaningful explanation of what his teachings are supposed to do. His justifications are invariably verbose and tautological concatenations of indefinable terms.

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>>18135268
Go get more plastic surgery, Genny.

>>18135268
>The Knower of Truth should go about the world outwardly stupid like a child, a madman or a fool.

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Magic and occult?

I'll pray for your souls.

How do I figure out what god(s) I want to follow/whateverthefuck?

What's the appropriate attitude toward gods?

>>18132806
Not really, spirits have their own lives. But you can have a spirit squad. I have one that come and go as they like and its nice.
>tfw no spirit animal in your squad
>are you even living?

>>18133337
Holy shit. I don't remember it looking so dated.

>>18135377
Read about mythologies. Read about philosophies of religion. Integrate your preferred mythology with your preferred philosophy.

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>>18134862
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jNt3W7NtgY

>>18135374
Fuck off Sunni-Chan.
I guess if you wanna talk some Twelver shit you can hop on board.
If you wanna talk about initiatory Sufi interpretations of the Godnames of Allah, we can come to some form of accord.

Discourse on the Peacock Angel would be better, but alas.

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>>18135374
>implying Patchy's library doesn't look a lot like Ape's

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>>18135536
>Sunni-chan
How dare you? I'm a Twelver.

>>18135549
Funnily enough, I have this pic as my mousepad.

I only know a bit about the twelvers. Give us a lowdown, if you would.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xVLmn-GDBCw

Too drunk to process... Bookmsrking

>>18134662
>that absolute aryan in the middle
Fug. Who is that poo-in-loo sperm worm?

>>18135575
>I'm a Twelver.
I've only ever seen people on shitpost chan shilling for the Wahabis and Salafists.

>>18135580
Not him but the final Imam is alive and well, in "occultation" waiting for the Eschaton to begin.

>>18135673
I dunno.

Issue with this translation of Tantraloka; it's shit in terms of unpacking the Twilight Tongue. This won't be a problem for the first few chapters, I just won't scan 'em and you can use the better translation in the library.

After that...man I'm already annotating about every other verse here. Once I get into material I don't have a second source for I can clean up my handwriting but it's going to take forever to annotate and will largely be rooted in speculations on implied meaning, at least until I get to the Kula Rite and you can just follow along with DuPuche analysis, or something.

Not sure how to approach this. Obviously read quickly and get scanning on Blazing Dew, etc., but this is gonna be a problem we're gonna have to chat about, preferably with one of you poo-in-loos.

>>18134861
Wisdom. At the end of the day, if you can't do chaos magick you don't deserve the title magician.

I've thought about going out to a crossroad of paths in the woods or something, middle of the night, setting up a stool, meditating, and chatting with whatever shows up.

How is this likely to go down?

>>18135744
In daylight I hope. Could be interesting.

>>18135794
>In daylight I hope.
I mean, I specifically said "middle of the night," but I'm willing to be swayed if you have a good reason.

>>18135798
He doesn't.
Make sure there's a stream or graveyard nearby and bring animal bones.

>>18135803
Thanks. I intend to have a talisman of protection in my pocket just in case as well. Any other advice?

Should I have specific intents in mind? I mean, I have ultimate goals for self-improvement in the areas of self-esteem and focus, but nothing in particular in mind to ask or even talk about if something shows up. Unless the spirit wants to hear about anthropology or my anarchist politics or love of superhero comics and Godzilla movies, but I kind of doubt it.

>>18135828
The Known Intercessor can arrive in a multitude of forms.

Toss some bones in the stream if so compelled. Don't be afraid to go out for multiple nights running.

>>18135798
Oh sorry. I thought you said something about the night and I wrote 'In 2016? Terribly." But then I got confused.

The night is dark and full of terrors. Daytime would be better, for sure.

>>18135803
I'm telling on you when this is over you cunt.

>>18135841
Thanks. This'll be my first foray into magic that wasn't cartomancy, kledon, sigils, prayer, or copying a symbol of protection out of an old grimoire. So, y'know, wish me luck.

Is it relevant if the closest I've gotten to religion since I spent a while as a hard-line atheist was a few prayers to Hermes?
>>18135861
>The night is dark and full of terrors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiG94HIKxSo but then, maybe I'll go at dawn or dusk for dat sweet sweet liminality.

If I make a piece of magical art that's a bit more in-depth/complicated than a sigil, what do I do with it when I'm done? How do I activate it?

I have a crush on someone I have a couple classes with this semester. I want to use magic to increase the odds of her liking me.

I DON'T want to control her mind directly, but to increase the likelihood that she'll become infatuated with me by making myself more appealing in general, and by creating circumstances conducive to her starting to think of me as a potential boyfriend.

Obviously there's all the stuff I should do IRL, including just telling her, but how can I use magic to increase my odds as well?

Sigils seem too simple for something so specific, where the method of it happening matters as much as the result.

>>18136227
a sigil would be perfect for it

>>18136232
How do you make a sigil of something so detailed without a massive clusterfuck?

Should I instead make a series of sigils, all related to sub-goals (being more attractive to x, being on x's mind more, having an opportunity to spend more time with x, etc.)?

So, evidently Apollo taught Hermes to do divination with dice. Googling around a bit, these were sheep knucklebones, each of which had four sides, and then after rolling, the dice were totaled to make a number that would correspond to a letter, which would carry meaning.

How many dice were rolled, can you still get sheep-knucklebone dice, and is it known what each number meant?

>>18136236
Sigilize: "I want to be a more attractive me"

>>18134048

What is your reason for living, anon?

>>18134148

>I'd disagree
>Good for you.
It is good for him, since you're fucking wrong

>>18134112

>Chumbley, Soror PA, Schulke, Mike Howard, etc.


Are there any sources outside of the primary texts themselves in which they discuss, in concrete terms, the details of what they've gained from and achieved with the system?

>Here's the bibliography of all the strains of elaboration I can find in DBoE, from my like 80 pgs of notes:

Interesting, thanks.

Don't let /pol/ find out about this golden toad malarkey. They'll throw conniptions.

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Gonna ask about this here rather than it's own topic or in since I don't want to have to argue about the existence of the etheric/vital energy itself. Hoping some people who already have some occult knowlege/experience can give some opinions.

Is orgonite legit? Obviously we know what Reich's "orgone" really is. And that crystals/minerals/metals have their own occult properties. But has anyone had any experiences with trying this type of device? Does it would as work intended? Or a complete scam?

>>18136538
snake oil for uneducated new agers

>>18136589

Wouldn't it be just fucking hysterical if some scientist one day discovers that snake oil is the cure for everything including cancer and aids and space mumps?

>>18136538
If it worked, it would be a hot area of research like when the electromagnetic or the nuclear forces were discovered, Nobel Prizes would go left and right. The stories about research cover up are ridiculous.

>>18136607

Well, you'd think there would be more mainstream research into manipulating vital/elemental energies and developing the occult faculties but there isn't. So it's possible that it just "doesn't fit the narrative" enough for mainstream science to look into it. But yea, I wasn't sure what to make of all the government coverup stuff with Reich's work.

>>18134650
what is your degree in, my dearest f-amilioso?

>>18134662
great pic tho

>>18136609
>"doesn't fit the narrative"

The same was true for nuclear forces and the same is true for the dark matter conundrum.
Just more motivation to jump in and become a 'paradigm shifting' physicist like Einstein and Gallileo. You'd think the effects that orgonite users claim would be provable in under 3 minutes in a controlled research environment. But it isn't happening.

>>18136612
Archaeology

>>18136636
That was my undergrad, after testing the waters in a few grad departments (neuro, more anth) I decided to get an MPA focused in museum admin.

>>18134650
>ONE and/or Leaper Between
>vague dreamlike recommendations, Azoetia.

I've been looking for a reading list that made sense to me to get more into CS and I think this is it, DBoE has been a bit of a stumbling block for me even though It's been cool to work with and read.

Is Eikostos the current "version" of Azoetia as the xoanon page seems to imply, or am I misunderstanding them?

>>18136614
The idea that science always comes from an ideological place (and even moreso, though not only, when we're talking about social sciences) is rejected because it "doesn't fit the narrative" even though it's easily demonstrable through logical proofs, examples, and so on. But it isn't demonstrable through quantitative data alone, which is the basis on which most modern science is founded. That is, anything which involves questioning the methodology and all-encompassing nature of that thing we call "science" today is rejected out of hand. However, that's much more meta and a much different issue and I think scientists are right to say orgonite isn't legitimate unless given very strong evidence that it is.
>>18136636
>>18136682
>Ape studied anth
I knew there was a reason I liked you! Your advice to look into the Voodoo/Africa section of your library, and in turn my own reading of Serpent Songs, is what led me to the idea to do this: >>18135744

>>18136709
>>18135744
>How is this likely to go down?

Just caught up on this conversation. Full disclosure I am not a deeply experienced ceremonial worker, but having done a lot of work at crossroads, I think it will go down the way you're expecting it to. I know that sounds like a cop-out but it's my only answer. Doing work at the crossroads, you're putting out a neon sign for any and all liminal deities and spirits. It's gonna get liminal, that's the whole idea. Id recommend doing it at dawn, or dusk, when it's kind of hard to tell which is which. Theres a huge family of liminal spirits that you're likely to talk to. They all have different temperaments but in my experience they are all guides and guardians of some stripe. Bring some offerings and leave them out in front of you while you meditate. My only advice when speaking with them is obviously to be polite, most of the liminal spirits have things about being helpful to fellow travelers and being discerning while being polite and upbeat.

If you do this during twilight or dusk, realize it's going to get a bit weird even without meditation, a lot of people have not stood in the center of a crossroad for very long, let alone meditated in it, and youll realize why pretty quickly, the energy at any crossroads is pretty strong. Im not sure if its psychological or something else and wont claim one way or the other, but you'll feel it. It's going to feel like you're nowhere, and also, at the center of everything. That's why liminal energies are so strong. In my experience it can be disorienting, but thats part of the experience, just let it be disorienting and confusing and ride the experience. If you expect to meet the devil and have a spooky time, you will, thats the path you chose, if you expect it to be a powerful new start, it probably will be. Its a place and time for choosing direction, so go into it with the right intent.

Report back in, Id love to hear about it.

>>18136720
Cool, thanks. I'll do it tomorrow morning and/or evening, I think.

I don't expect to meet the devil or a demon in the Abrahamic religions sense, but beyond that I'm trying not to have any specific expectations.

Though my hope is to meet a powerful, friendly spirit of some sort who'll help me begin a journey into using magic in more meaningful ways than as a minor wish-granting machine.

>>18136707
>Eikostos
Mostly biographical material.

If I go back for a Ph.D. it'll probably be in philosophy of religion/

>>18136761
A place for everything and everything in its place

>>18136792
>biographical
BIBLIOgraphic. Goddamn.

But yes.

There's been twenty good years of research on cunning craft that needs synthesized for mainstream academia as is being done with the various Western LHP factions.

At this point I can't even rule out an Ashmolean transmission, to some degree, which would make the cunning crafters a fork of the same line of elaboration that spawned the Golden Dawn, etc.

>>18136466

I'm not finished, yet, and am still highly entertained.

>>18136470

lel

>>18136803
>At this point I can't even rule out an Ashmolean transmission, to some degree, which would make the cunning crafters a fork of the same line of elaboration that spawned the Golden Dawn, etc.

This came up during the formation of KAOS 14. One point of departure was Grant's claim to have Bennett's "blasting rod".

>>18136761
Good luck finding a department that isn't trash. A family friend told me that it's nearly impossible to get out from under mainline christism and orthodox intellectualized academic buddhism to even touch on Canaanite, tantric or other practices. So many are little more than thinly veiled theology departments.

>>18136803
How do you even go about making cunning craft palatable for academia? You're essentially doing the equivalent of saying we had civilizations before the last ice age, and we all know how well that went over.

>>18136843
>You're essentially doing the equivalent of saying we had civilizations before the last ice age

Of course not.

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>>18136843
The research has largely been done for me. I just need to contextualize it. Then there's the whole "meta-postmodern transhistorical syncretism" angle.

We have The Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet...in the same MSS which have Dee's material. We have dozens of witchbottles, we have records of their use from the church and from practitioners. We have the CURIOUS case of the Confession of Urbain Grandier which as sigils which don't appear again for like a hundred years half a continent away. We have Italians flat out asserting in their philosophical academic materials that Mandaeans were lurking while the Kabbalists were flourishing, and Agrippa, who used the Mandaean name for the Angel of Logos, but as an Infernal Prince, had official business in Italy at the time they were there...

Like I said, someone just needs to connect the dots and provide context for all these disparate facts.

>>18134622
Not gonna lie.... pretty jelly.

>>18132964

You went the wrong way, friend. Though maybe it's good you went to the darkness first to learn it doesn't hold the answers.

Now you are free to go towards lightness. Perhaps a trip to South America to imbibe in sacred liquid and travel beyond the mind you're stuck in.

Perhaps just start small and listen to a few David Icke videos.

Whatever you decide take small steps, breathe, go easy on yourself, try to keep to a routine to improve the vessel you walk around in, and go into natural environments as much as you can. Take in the natural world and let out all your pain.

Breathe. Slowly. Easy. There is no such thing as time.

>>18136884
>Perhaps just start small and listen to a few David Icke videos.

Heh.

>>18136720
I'm having a hard time finding [X] shaped crossroads that are secluded and quiet. Any chance [Y] shaped or [T] shaped crossroads will work as an alternative too?

>>18137089

Not really crossroads.

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>>18137089
A tau will work.

>>18137094
?

>>18137097
>mfw

>>18137094
Oh. Right. Thanks. Back to the drawing board and google maps again.

>>18137106
>>18137105
>A tau will work

>>18137107
My bad. I didn't see your reply earlier. Thanks, Mr. Ape. I've been thinking of doing a crossroads ritual for a while too. Been looking it up on hoodoo sites.

Just recently, I found that Gordon White gave two crossroads rituals in his Chaos Protocols book. The first is to meet with the Lord of the Crossroads and the other is for broing it up with Saint Nicholas of Tolentino and the spirits of the dead via spring water offering. I'm game on doing the second one like whoa especially during this coming All Saints' day except for the lacking the appropriate crossroads part until now.

Speaking of water, there's also this pamphlet by Jake Stratton-Kent called Elelogap: The Spirit of the Waters. Have you given it a read? Really interesting bit on the rain water collecting thing plus the vessel preparations. I haven't read much about Elelogap except for his brief description on that pamphlet and his connection to the Trve Grimoire.

Makes me want to try out the Florida Water recipe to use as an offering and cleanser that he gave on the Goetic Pharmakos too.

But man, so little time, so much stuff I want to try out.

I wonder if there is a way to establish a literary roadmap of sorts when working through a mountain of reading material.
Perhaps formulate a research question, then drafting a proposal on what schools of thought to consult. It can be a rudimentary question of “I want to be able to do Y”, reformulate it to “I want to know about Y” which culminates in knowledge of XYZ. Where you get the knowledge and where you are going with it.
I believe that the ambitious scholar should be able to then assemble a preliminary data analysis, address the findings succinctly, then proceed accordingly after they are satisfied with consulting their peers. In doing so, they incorporate the reading material far better than simply plowing through from cover to cover.
Thoughts?

>>18137105

I can see the argument that a tau cross is still a cross, but there seems some difference between a T intersection and a place where roads actually cross. The place where four roads meet is a potent symbol, I should think.

>>18137300
If you just pick and arbitrary starting point, start reading, and don't stop, you won't need heuristics to learn. You'll have dun lern'd urself a thing or 2 already.

In short, though, yes, though that's largely the basic undergrad model. Lit reviews, etc., there's a reason it's done early and hard on the academic treadmill.

What you learn as you specialize is that there's always something mega interesting that you've never heard of that you stumble upon by utterly baffling chance...like that italian historian of philosophy who managed to substantiate Mandaean influence. Came to me out of the blue while shitposting with anons.

Also, hypothesis testing doesn't have much place in lit reviews.

Ideally the whole process shouldn't need to be taught because you already picked up the skill in school.

I need magic to become more secure in myself and not always rely quite so much on my friends for reassurance, or worry they're angry at me when there's no reason to think they are.

>>18137332
Its not so much a hypothesis, and more so identifying where research is lacking. Going for books that supplement each other, both complimentary and those that offer critique. However your advice on the matter is greatly appreciated.

On another note, thoughts on the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, and if their publications have any merit to be included in one’s archive?
http://www.csicop.org/si/archive

>>18137368
Hatha yoga.

>>18137370
>http://www.csicop.org/si/archive

Actually lold. Thanks!

I used to sit in the sci library at school and read their rag. It was about what you'd expect: humorless, self-righteous zealotry.

>>18137368
>>18137374

Maybe martial arts.

>>18137374
Can you be more specifig? Google seems to suggest that >90% of yoga types fall into that category.

Hey, Ape? What's the next step in getting closer to a god, beyond (just) praying?

>>18137432

I liked the Sivananda material. Richard Hittleman was better than expected.

>>18137452

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_yoga

>>18137452
Yoga.

>>18137419
>I used to sit in the sci library at school and read their rag. It was about what you'd expect: humorless, self-righteous zealotry.
^
This. They pick low hanging fruit for low hanging IQs. There are good skeptical refutations all over academia, rarely see one in an interest mag.

>>18137432
The book, Hathayoga Pradipika.

>>18137461
>>18137463
Thanks.

...I hope Hermes likes me.

>>18137463
I like Mallinson's Shiva Samhita as well.

>>18137463
>The book, Hathayoga Pradipika.
>>18137498
>I like Mallinson's Shiva Samhita as well.

I owned and read both of these. I did a lot of hatha. I got far more out of Sivananda and Hittleman.

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“You thought, as a boy, that a mage is one who can do anything. So I thought, once. So did we all. And the truth is that as a man's real power grows and his knowledge widens, ever the way he can follow grows narrower: until at last he chooses nothing, but does only and wholly what he *must *do . . .”

Any thoughts on the Earthsea saga? The author is a practising Taoist as far as I know.

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Is there correlation of
Prometheus steals fire with a bush
Moses fiery bush
Last supper holy grail cup
Harry Potter goblet of fire
The element of fire being destruction/creation magick stole from the gods, lucifer was Prometheus, 666 is Titan Greeks vs Titans, is where Prometheus/Moses/lucifer link in literature Saturn has a hexagon and is number 6 number 6 space group and hexagon is emerald, emeralds are used to make the philosophers stone or aka chaos / the creation of a universe. Titan also Greek number 22 is obesessive and demand and pushes to edge. Like money, titanium itself is bulletproof, machines can make magic if we took it through time, this battle seems longer than retrospectively displayed by history. Pic related Titan only moon with water and atmosphere carbon monoxide & dioxide - breathing fire.

>>18137905
So if Saturn was and emerald and something bullet proof pushes it to the edge, you'd create chaos, possibly a merge between the eye of Jupiter and Saturn with a lining of Titan eclipse. Uranus is planet 7 and allegedly with us 3 = 10 our digits, created all life anyway, so we did it all with machines then did wars pew pew pew forever and ever and ever pew pew pew

>>18137905
Like everything symbolises it sega sonic collecting rings and chaos emeralds then having a sega Saturn, top bants. It's like here is science were we meant to learn it? And rings in sonic, he goes blonde from blue hitter master race blonde and blue is like all there

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I said a prayer to Eris earlier today and I regret nothing.

I figure, look, MOST non-Fridays, I don't eat hotdog buns, and I've literally never killed a cockroach. It's true that I haven't actively refrained from killing any cockroaches, but that's because I've never bumped into one to refrain from killing it. So I'm a more devout Discordian than most people are in their religions. Even though I only read the Principia Discordia yesterday fnord.

Plus I'm a fucking Discordian saint. So like, maybe she's willing to throw me a bone, right?

So I'm outside in my apartment complex walking the dog and I start this prayer with "Goddess Eris, who... (and at this point I'm out of epithets for Eris and I gotta think fast) landed... a starring role in the Principia Discordia, creator of... or maybe just vaguely associated with? Probably creator of? It wasn't clear... something something the Sacred Chao, I was wondering if maybe you could do me a solid."

So then I ask her for help with liking myself more so I can be less needy and more considerate of my friends, promising to "say some really sarcastic shit in class Monday" if she helps me in a way I find satisfactory.

I turn to go back inside and some woman is staring at me like I grew a second head.

This can ONLY end well.

>>18137919
Sonic boom is sound
Ultra sonic, is like you cannot hear it
Super sonic is above sound so I'd expect for bats to not crash and shit ultrasonic projects at the speed of light or close and is possibly close to big bang fallout causing vibrations is mass
For them to physically manifest so you probably need ultrasonic projection or astral projection of atleast know how to harness this, Dolphins Ecco on sega, produce ultrasonic or radar too for a global gps, Ecco choir is featured in American ultra, ultra again mk ultra, it's ultra sound, programming. We've been taught the entire history of man, because then it can be harnessed. The missing link, is merely knowledge.

>>18137946
N64
Link - missing. Link
Ocarina of time.
They tell you but you don't appreciate art.

>>18137954
Also e=mc2 backwards is 2 c me, that's odd.

>>18137962
Now you c me 2 is a magick film. It's encrypted messaging.

>>18137967
To cast spells is 2 mce or emcee if you replace the 2 with 2 Es, sound. Light, it's a formula.

>>18137973
>>18137973
The 2 representing squared means action upon and using the 4 elements and laws. Gravity or sound being the weakest and strongest. Because you need it for mass and must fight energy which is squared of itself, increase your energy suffienciently it can out power your mass and project.

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>>18137905
You are a silly person. I don't like you.

>>18137938
You are a silly person. I like you.

>>18137984
Your magic shit isn't real, I'm beating history zues vs Cronus, fuck off Prometheus with your little magic wankers. They're shit.

>>18137984
You been.. Thunderstruck
AC/DC
Zues electric, bests all your retardo magic because without electronic impulse you'd be dead, silly mortal.

>>18137997
Posieden trident, 3 stages of water ice solid air gas water liquid hades fire changes states, stealing fire, but zues will fuck you up!

What's the most powerful form of magic or spell that you've seen someone perform?

>>18138506
In terms of raw, unadulterated, visionary weird?

Enochian.

>>18138510
>Enochian.
How would one perform Enochian magick? How weird is it?

>>18131927
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I hope everything is going good with you all. Anything new? Anything worth talking about is good.

>>18138510
Where does one begin with Enochian magic?

>>18138519
Well, there's a lot of variation depending on transmission and actual intent, but for working Aethyrs, it appears one can simply decide which Aethyr to work, look up the Governors, look up the Tribe of Israel associated with them, which gives you a planet, which tells you which Agrippan planet to work.

At the planet's appointed hour and day, sigilze the Governing spirit's names, perform a planetary invokation tied to said planet, then start working your way in "triangulating" the spirit, working from Key 1, being the whole outline, and 2 establishing the cross, to the Key for the elemental tablet, to the Key for the specific quadrant of the tablet, ending with the Call of the 30th.

While you can totes use a complexified GD approach for various spirits inside the tablet or watchtower, you can get by with little, though Dee and Kelley likely at least worked using a table that's been sigilized, a wax seal that's been sigilized, a ring, a talisman, some cloths, candles, incense, etc., and a black mirror and/or crystal ball.

Usually with all the work you're seeing shit by the time you crack the first couple keys.

>>18138526
Tyson's Enochian Magick for Beginners, while remembering that it's bare-bones basics mixed with Tyson's somewhat questionable theology (I'm more forgiving of it than others; he tends to sensationalize the eschatological component, which is inherent, but I doubt anyone *not* chosen by the Angels is going to Finish This).

>>18136121
imo the magic is in the doing. this of it like building an aura. Keep your intention in mind while you are painting it and when its done it will already be active. Maybe turn it sideways to turn it off.

>>18136607
People are stupid.

>>18138506
I made sunlight come out of my skin. Most powerful thing I've done. . . .so far. Stay tuned for me awesomeness from the son of god.

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>>18131927
I wish you the best my friend. Sending light and love <3.

- A Plaeidian

Lately I've been thinking about all the different ways that people classify and characterize various paths and techniques. Most of it seems to miss the mark, if even by a bit (some by a lot): high magic and low magic, theurgy and goetia, paganism and orthodox religion, etc. What do you think would be the most sensical way to classify the systems of practice?

>>18138646
>Plaeidian
*Pleiadian

>>18138666
I'd tend to agree, largely.
I'm for anthropological taxonomy; each tradition is a world unto itself, though integrally connected to antecedents and new elaborations.

In Anth you'll never hear someone going on about sympathetic or high magick these days, you WILL hear about the specific usage of the specific ritual X from specific tradition Y in culture Z.

>>18132033
I feel very tempted to follow the Hermetic Golden Dawn path but I have a severe case of IHVH/Jesus allergy. Would this interfere with the work?

>>18133309
Maybe build discipline through a physical exercise routine (something basic, 30 minutes to one hour) then go to magic.

>>18134054
I have some hope on John Michael Greer and his Celtic Golden Dawn system. Time will tell.

>>18138698
Um, probably not, the GD interpretation has little to do with notions of Christology, well, I mean sorta, it depends on the exact transmission...I'm mostly going on the idea that the GD inserted of every single letter in the entire Tablet have four correlations with like elements, etc., which adds multiple layers of needless and non-native complexity.

The pros have a hard enough time parsing Enochian "Truth", we don't need bells and whistles on an already incredibly complex and efficient device.

>>18138712
"The Masonic model was a mistake."
~t. Ed Crowley (in letters to Germer, '41, '42)

>>18138690
What about haram vs non-haram? That seems to be the clearest of all classifications.

>>18138739
I have four or five Arabic grimoires that certainly weren't haram either at the time they were written or now; so you can take your ass-backwards fiq and fuck off (provided you're actually some iteration of wahabi or salafist and not just shitposting).

Remember, in a Quran only approach, the Satanic verses are valid.

>>18131927
Does "magick" actually work for anyone?
I'm not saying did you shoot fire, did it do anything?

>>18138743
i was just pulling your leg, m8, i didnt mean to trigger you. lrn2tongueincheek m8

>>18134840
>lady_gray
What size are your breasts?

>>18138794
she's a man / trans

>>18138826
ugh. degenerates everywhere

>>18138861
>unable to restrain his lust and refrain from asking inappropriate sexual questions
>complains about degenerates
top kek

>>18138897
i love it when memes write themselves 2

>>18135575
>Funnily enough, I have this pic as my mousepad.

I'd like to pretend I knew that and deliberately chose that particular Patchouli artwork out of the hundreds of thousands in existence but to be honest I didn't. I randomly saved it from gelbooru specifically to reply to your post.

I experience synchronicity like this so often these days that I'm not even spooked by it anymore.

>>18138753
I have like a 90% success rate with sigils.

>>18139167
that's extremely high, mine is roughly 60%
what's your approach and what do you mostly use sigils for?

>>18138753

Yes. Astral Projection, spiritual contact, remote viewing, telepathy, psychokinesis, weather magic, assorted other random stuff that would need more explaining. I worked with a teacher once who could step into his student's dreams, which was a pretty cool experience. Worked with multiple healers who can project their internal energy to create tangible sensations, healing effects, altered consciousness, etc.

It's really not that hard - suspend your skepticism (I'm not saying you have to force yourself to believe, just avoid active disbelief enough that it doesn't interfere), focus on training, and if you have a reasonable schedule (work up to 1hr a day over a few months and go from there) inside a decent system (ideally with a teacher), you'll start seeing these kind of tangible results in a year or two. Possibly less, depending on the system and teacher.

>>18139830

Just want to say that most serious practitioners have had similar experiences - there's a strange but deeply rooted culture of modesty in the online occult/metaphysical community, where people are very hesitant to discuss specific experiences, and tend to keep conversations intellectual.

I'm not quite sure why it exists, although I find myself falling in line with it as well - I only mentioned the experiences I did because this is /x/, the post will disappear in a few days and nobody really cares here anyway.

>>18139840
Talking about your own practice can be very lewd and there's a belief that it's dangerous for strangers to know what you so specifically. The beliefs around keeping Secrets are many and the reasons true across many interpretations for why.

It's a little different here with the anonymity, where a post has the ability to sigilize a thing done and make it real, give it proof of having transpired.

>>18139939

>Talking about your own practice can be very lewd

How so? To me it seems almost like the fundamentalist religious attitude towards sex (and I think your choice in language is very telling) - to experience a thing, something important and in some way fundamental, but keep it private and secret and make it seem a little morally suspect, to refuse to be open about it and it's effects to those with less experience, until all you do is create a culture of repression, where people desire a thing and practice it, and yet denounce to various degrees people who are more open about their own desire for it or practice of it.

"The magician doth protest too much..."

Honestly I think it's holding us back. I understand where it comes from to an extent, both the secrecy aspect and the whole "wanting abilities/experiences is bad" aspect.

But honestly, how much better would it be for everyone (and especially newcomers) if people were just open and honest and detailed in accounting their experiences? If we stopped hiding behind allusion and innuendo and metaphor and just said straight up "Y is what happened to me when I did X."

There would be so much less confusion and so much more room to advance our understanding of what's happening in these phenomena, and eventually, room for them to make their way into mainstream society, where they could be a potent force against the materialism, reductionism and scientism which dominate so much of Western culture.

Then again, as I said, I'm guilty of the same behavior, which I suppose makes me something of a hypocrite. But I have a huge admiration for the public figures in the metaphysical scene who aren't.

>>18138578

You'll be best served calling all three -- or four -- 'governors', if that's the way you're approaching it.

>>18138718

I can't quite bring myself to wholly abandon GD square workings. It's an effective way of adding substance to the govs, for example. Doesn't work for all aethyrs, though.

>>18138753
>Does "magick" actually work for anyone?

Of course.

>>18139954
>to refuse to be open about it and it's effects to those with less experience

It benefits no one.

>>18139420
I use the traditional approach (remove vowels and duplicate letters). I also find porn that gets me intensely aroused and possibly emotionally invested (maybe looking at porn but also at pictures of someone I have feelings for and think about how much I care about her, or alternatively getting off on humiliation porn and imagining my friends catching me, just anything that feels really intense). Then when I'm not even just cumming, but at that very most intense moment, I don't just visualize the sigil. I look at it, my eyes dancing wildly around it, taking it in, the way you might be overcome with intensity if you stared into someone's eyes as you came together during sex.

Then I immediately get rid of the sigil and do something completely unrelated.

As far as things I use it for, I've gotten a friend I hadn't talked to in a while to message me (she texted me literally a minute and a half after I fired the sigil at most). Another friend, I wasn't sure about whether I meant much to her so I did a sigil and she told me she loved me within a week. I did one to get into grad school and one to get good grades last semester (going for all As this semester, as last time I got two As and a B). Later today I think I'll do one to find a job.

I'm going to experiment with shoaling soon as well: http://runesoup.com/2010/06/shoaling-making-sigil-magic-more-awesome-since-2010/

>>18136333
>can you still get sheep-knucklebone

Replicas are easy enough to get

http://historicgames.com/xcart/knucklebones_dice_set.html

>>18137938
*holds up spork*

Is it better to go for John Michael Greer's Art and Practice of Geomancy than The Geomancer's Handbook? I just realized that the latter book was published a year later from the former and the page numbers got whittled down by half. Anybody know what got improved or whatnot on the Geomancer's Handbook?

>>18140031
very similar to my way of doing it, I guess the difference in success rate may be coming from my ability to reach gnosis
or not doing enough non-occult stuff to create correct circumstances for the sigil to influence the probability of certain outcomes
thanks

>>18138730

The Ape, would you mind posting your library link again?

>>18140426
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

Gotchu senpai

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I'm making a talisman, the purpose of which is to make me un-fuck-withable. Confident, driven, unshakable, emotionally secure, and so on.

>Is it presumptuous to use a deity's symbol in my talisman? Can you just borrow power like that?
>If you can, would it be better to invoke Hermes in the symbol, or some other deity? I associate most easily with Hermes, and he's the deity I prayed to most back when I was praying regularly (which I should start again), but I don't know to what extent he's associated with protection (aside from protecting travelers).
>Any other advice?

>>18140452
Meditate on your insecurities instead.

>>18138666
Theurgy and goetia is almost right, I'd say. Or high and low magic. On the one hand, you have the practices that are about pure, selfless gnosis or god-realization, and on the other are the mundane, profane practices that have selfish goals in mind, and use primitive, exoteric methods. That latter section encompasses all superficial stuff, which is a vast majority of the mystic practices, and it can be dropped (as it should), because it is basically normie shit pretending to be 2deep.

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>>18140645
>instead

>>18140657
>On the one hand, you have the practices that are about pure, selfless gnosis or god-realization,

This, too, is a selfish goal.

>>18140680
no

>>18140657
Both of the categories into which you have arbitrarily divided magic can be selfish or selfless.

"Low" magic:
>magic to heal sick individual and help the poor
vs.
>magic to heal sick self and help self get money

"High" magic:
>magic to become closer to God (whatever you believe in) because you believe this is objectively right
vs.
>magic to become closer to God (whatever you believe in) because you want to stop hating yourself and being depressed all the time

By the way, there's nothing wrong with all four.

>>18140715
Not him but I will interject. One of those abritrary divisions leads to a pure state of being that is beyond characteristics, thus making it neither selfish nor selfless. The path to that end may be done for a selfish aim, but once that threshold is crossed, all such characteristics disappear.

>>18140751
No disagreements here, though I think seeing magic at work in more mundane things makes most people more likely to try to use it for self-transformation.

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>>18133144
i noticed that

>>18140771
So what you're saying is that meme stuff like shamanism, witchcraft, et al, aka degenerate memes, they're OK because meme-sorcerers might eventually think "hey, that's pretty good, I guess I should try to achieve union with god now". Absolutely haram, and I'm not even a Muslim.

>>18141085
>shamanism
How is this a meme except in the sense that basically any idea which spreads is a meme? Are you talking about "neoshamanism" and shit, or do you have a problem with traditional shamanism as well?

>degenerate
Oh, you're one of those. Sorry, I'll let you get back to unifying with God by jerking off to pictures of Trump.

>>18141109
>spotted the degenerate
>i bet you're a plastic shaman too

>>18141296
Degeneracy doesn't real and I was just curious if you hate actual native shamans or just middle class white people going around calling themselves shamans because they like quartz a lot.

I don't consider myself a shaman in any sense, but I respect those who actually are.

>>18141347
Don't worry, I am just shitposting. I don't hate traditional shamans, but I do dislike the fake shamans.

Bump because why not?

>>18141538
Only a few more posts ITT and I got homework plus scanning to do.

>>18132964
dont do it mang

>>18136609
This. I don't understand why magick ("psi and ESP") is not being actively researched and the only scientists that are doing it, like Russell Targ and Dean Radin, are ridiculed.

I get it, first hand in fact, its peculiar way with chance and causality makes it a very difficult phenomenon given how peer-reviewed research currently works, but anyone can experience the effects of magick to the point were it is undeniable it's a real thing. Can we get over all the scientific superstition crap and start researching it properly already? The technological potential of technology-assisted psi functioning is staggering.

>>18138753
Yes. It's easy to see for yourself though. Suspend your disbelief and give it a try for a year.

>>18141615
>This. I don't understand why magick ("psi and ESP") is not being actively researched and the only scientists that are doing it, like Russell Targ and Dean Radin, are ridiculed.
From the point of view of a skeptic, but an honest one, at least, and it's probably the best article I've seen on the modern state of parapsych research:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/28/the-control-group-is-out-of-control/

"Earlier this month Bem came back with a meta-analysis of ninety replications from tens of thousands of participants in thirty three laboratories in fourteen countries confirming his original finding, p < 1.2 * -1010, Bayes factor 7.4 * 109, funnel plot beautifully symmetrical, p-hacking curve nice and right-skewed, Orwin fail-safe n of 559, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

By my count, Bem follows all of the commandments except [6] and [10]. He apologizes for not using pre-registration, but says it’s okay because the studies were exact replications of a previous study that makes it impossible for an unsavory researcher to change the parameters halfway through and does pretty much the same thing. And he apologizes for the small effect size but points out that some effect sizes are legitimately very small, this is no smaller than a lot of other commonly-accepted results, and that a high enough p-value ought to make up for a low effect size.

This is far better than the average meta-analysis. Bem has always been pretty careful and this is no exception. Yet its conclusion is that psychic powers exist.

So – once again – what now, motherfuckers?"

>>18139954
The whole point of "forgetting" or "letting go" the magickal operation is for the ego to get out of the picture and let the subconscious embrace the message (at least in some models).

If you go around boasting or just talking to other people about this you basically now have two problems, your ego and theirs.

>>18140715
"High magick" actually refers to the phenomenon of synchronicity doing all the work for you, having essentially reached a state of egolessness that means you don't even have to do the rituals in order for them to manifest. Everything falls into place for you. That is high magick.

>>18141654
Where can I read more about this novel definition?

>>18141638
>The results are pretty dismal. Parapsychologists are able to produce experimental evidence for psychic phenomena about as easily as normal scientists are able to produce such evidence for normal, non-psychic phenomena. This suggests the existence of a very large “placebo effect” in science – ie with enough energy focused on a subject, you can always produce “experimental evidence” for it that meets the usual scientific standards.

This is what I'm talking about. Even if the problem they describe is real, they are not choosing a valid starting point for this discussion. This person is avoiding considering psychic phenomena to be real to the point that they're basing their entire reasoning on the mistaken assumption that it's just some kind of meta placebo effect. Is there really such a thing to begin with?

It's messed up.

>>18141663
Novel perhaps for you.

You can read about it in Peter Carroll's books. Either in Liber Null, Liber Kaos or The Octavo. I forgot in which one.

>>18141679
Sure but at least he admits he's utterly biased and completely messed up by all this, but also gives the other side of the fence more consideration w/r/t validity than any other mainstream blog-skeptic I've ever seen.

FWIW dude writes Kabbalistic novels.

>>18141654
This is wrong on at least three levels.

>>18141654
No, that just starts to happen if you reach that point. It isn't what "high magic" is about.

Though the distinction is fake anyway. And also spelling it with a k in the 21st century is dumb.

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Is it true that if you do magic related to gaining or getting something closer to a full moon it becomes stronger?
What happens if there is a lunar eclipse involved with it?
Does it change anything?
Thanks.

I shit you not I sent this to a friend who's sort of into the occult and they sent a picture doing one of the hand gestures. Particularly the one with that kinda looks like you're almost flipping someone off, 053, without knowing the context of it. I sent the same one back for whatever reason and I wasn't able to take the picture, the screen glitched out with green and red bars. Its probably a coincidence but I'm spooked either way

How do I know if I should follow a certain deity? Just pray to them and see how it goes?

>>18142205
What makes you want to follow a certain deity?
Isn't one of the points of the occult self empowerment?
Working with one is a different story.

>>18142220
I suppose follow may not be the right word. I feel drawn to one and want to make contact and see how it goes. I feel like I want to be friends with him?

>>18142227
Who is it? What do you practice?

>>18142236
Hermes. And so far, just divination (kledon and cartomancy) and sigils, but I'd like to do more.

>>18142244
I'd say if you're trying to get in contact or deal with entities go to /sum/.
But for advice sake. Maybe try talking to him on the astral or something.
After bathing of course and maybe lighting incense. Just to be polite.

I tend to steer away from entities and just either create thought forms or work with myself. I find I get a lot more out of it. Plus it helps you develop into a more dependent and reliable person. Also when working with others you could just run into something that will just con you of energy because you don't really know how to make contact in the first place. It's an overall seemingly waste of time from my perspective. If you want someone to look up to or work with, go into a cult or coven or something or form one with trusted people.

>>18142270
>I'd say if you're trying to get in contact or deal with entities go to /sum/.
When is /sum/ even around?
>But for advice sake. Maybe try talking to him on the astral or something.
>After bathing of course and maybe lighting incense. Just to be polite.
That makes sense. If you don't know, kledon is a form of divination which traditionally often involved communicating with Hermes by whispering into the ear of the statue of him at his shrine in Pharae. I'm also a Gemini (and the description fits me pretty well), which Google informs me is "ruled by the planet Mercury," whatever that means. And finally I've wanted to be a writer since I was six, and moved so many times that I don't consider any specific place "home." Hermes as a concept just kind of clicks with me. Not that I think any of that means I'm "destined to contact Hermes" or any pretentious bullshit like that. But I want to.
>I tend to steer away from entities and just either create thought forms or work with myself. I find I get a lot more out of it. Plus it helps you develop into a more dependent and reliable person.
That's a good point.
>Also when working with others you could just run into something that will just con you of energy because you don't really know how to make contact in the first place.
That's why I was asking instead of just diving in.
>If you want someone to look up to or work with, go into a cult or coven or something or form one with trusted people.
This is also a possibility.

>>18142316
>kledon is a form of divination which traditionally often involved communicating with Hermes by whispering into the ear of the statue of him at his shrine.

Interesting. I've never heard of something like that before!

>Hermes as a concept just kind of clicks with me.
That's good. I'm also glad that you're smart enough not to get conned. By just diving into it.

I can't really provide any extra information to contacting him then besides maybe dreaming or AP'ing to talk to him yourself. I can try to guide you to be able to do something like that and give you advice so you are less likely to get conned.

I can also give you advice for doing other methods of magic if you are interested.
If the theme of Hermes appeals to you so much, you could perhaps work with magic that's built around his theme. Such as making travel easier, being quick at things etc.
Although we kinda get into chaos magic territory.

>>18142356
>I can try to guide you to be able to do something like that and give you advice so you are less likely to get conned.
Yeah, I'd really appreciate that!
>I can also give you advice for doing other methods of magic if you are interested.
Sure! I love to learn.
>Although we kinda get into chaos magic territory.
I mean, I don't mind that. I already do sigils which are basically Chaos 101.

>>18142401
Alright i'll just start from scratch just in case anyone else is reading this to learn too.
Also for other more experienced people reading this feel free to correct or add on to anything I put here.
As far as astral projection goes, think of it this way.
If I recall correctly from memory, If you are just thinking of a scenario that you have already experienced or seen, your dealing with your internal realm or dimension.

Once when you change that perception, for example:
Look at something, now try to close your eyes and look at that object from that memory.
Now what you can do by changing perception is imagine rotating the object and looking at it from a different angle.
Once when you do that you're in the aetheric realm.

But it just doesn't have to be from one object to get into the aetheric realm.
You can see yourself as if you were actually there in a memory and walk around looking at different objects in different perspectives. You can enter the aetheric realm at a larger scale this way.

For partial instead of full body astral projection:
The method I use for this is to imagine a door appearing in front of me once when i'm in the aetheric realm. I imagine and feel me writing on the door on where i'd like it to lead and then open it. This is one method you can use to enter certain dimensions and stuff like that.
If you ever want to go back just imagine what it felt like being near the door and then being there, then walk out of it. Don't forget to shut the door and burn it after into dust so that nothing else can come out of it.

Re-Entering the body:
To do that just imagine actually seeing yourself and walking into yourself copying your posture, then flex your muscles a little bit.

Any questions so far?