/vgcg/ - VGC General

>Arcanine in #1
What went so right?

>>31525533
Your image is outdated.

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>>31525595
shit you're right

How is Mimikyu being used in doubles?

>>31525891
as trick room user / setter mostly, as far as i know

Does anyone know where can you see the complete usage stats like in this picture? >>31522699

>>31526932
https://boe2.github.io/bsus.html

>>31525760
I'm still amazed how Arcanine now reached the top. I mean, there are a lot of things that can one shot it.
Sure, it can hit hard, it's not made of paper and is relatively fast, but still, it fall short in everything compared with all other things.
I used Arcanine since XY from the Friend Safari regardless of its shortcomings, seeing it now at the top is a little joy.

>>31525567
A shitty meta with no options.

Arcanine is 100 times more cancerous than Landorus-T because at least with Landorus-T you end up with a way or two to naturally kill him as you teambuild unlike with cancerdog.

>>31526997
>I'm amazed that the only Intimidate user of the meta, with wide offensive and defensive movepool, with stats balanced enough for it to be able to run both offensive and defensive defensive sets is being used too much
Do you people listen to yourselves?

By your own logic Garchomp shouldn't be used because we live Tapus - The Game. Look where he is now.

If Arcanine is good, will Entei be good?

>>31527397
>only intimidate user that can run both offensive and defensive

Gyarados says hi.

>>31527416
>will

Entei will never be legal in 2017. Entei is actually pretty good in battlespot but not in doubles.

>>31527397
>Do you people listen to yourselves?
Yes. Do you? What are Gyarados and Salamence?
I know Arcanine was always used because its balance and flexibility, yet it was always disregarded as third or fourth option since it didn't excel at anything.

Even now, more than half of the dex can outright one shot it despise his "okay defenses"; all of those okay stats fall short since not only it lacks specialization, but its best stats, offense; aren't enough to break through bulky things and its speed isn't enough to surpass and KO faster foes.


>By your own logic Garchomp shouldn't be used because we live Tapus - The Game. Look where he is now.
Koko has to rely on his off attack stat to use both STAB, Bulu doesn't even use Fairy Attacks since the difference is way higher. Garchomp is way more splashable than Arcanine and it's faster, bulkier and stronger.

Garchomp is more used as a Ground Type than a Dragon Type, and Arcanine can barely stand strong neutral hits wereas Garchomp can.

I'm not amazed that Arcanine is commonly used, I'm amazed that Arcanine is the MOST used Pokémon in the format.

>>31527397

>Arcanine worse than Landorus-T

gr8 b8 m8 made me reply

>>31527444
>>31527506
>Gyarados and Mence
>Either being half as versatile as Arcanine is
Maybe Gyarados but between all the Kokos, Finis, Ninetales, Porygon 2, etc he won't be getting much done.

Meanwhile Arcanine laughs on the face of 3/4 of the top 10 in usage can either kill or annoy back without worry.

Furthermore, Intimidate is nowhere near one of the main reasons those two get used unlike Arcanine.

Arcanine is THE Intimidater of this meta. I don't believe anyone here can argue with this.

>yet it was always disregarded as third or fourth option since it didn't excel at anything.
It's almost like we can use half the dex and the first, second and even third options are, you know, unable to be used.

>more than half of the dex can outright one shot it despise his "okay defenses"
I fucking wish. The damn dog never fucking dies. Oh you are gonna EQ/Tectonic me? Good thing you are Intimidated oh dear I survived in 1% better eat my Figy berry and heal 50% of my HP :^)

>all of those okay stats fall short since not only it lacks specialization
Which is actually strength because of how versatile it has become.

> but its best stats, offense; aren't enough to break through bulky things
Arcanine is not supposed to be killing shit. It's supposed to sit there and soften them for the rest of the team and once in a blue moon Flare Blitz or Extreme Speed something.

>Garchomp is way more splashable than Arcanine and it's faster, bulkier and stronger.
Usage stats clearly prove you wrong.

>It's faster, bulkier and stronger
If you look just at the numbers, yes. However, if stats were everything then, I don't know, Silvally would be dominating the metagame and we all know that's never happening.

>and Arcanine can barely stand strong neutral hits wereas Garchomp can.
Arcanine can also soften blows before they touch him unlike Garchomp. Arcanine has much more staying power than Garchomp does.

>>31527544
10/10 argument. You clearly have convinced me.

>>31527666

Landorus-T literally shaped the metagame along with his brother Thundurus. You needed to have two Ground immunities on your team in every format where it was legal (besides 2016) in order to combat it, because it would just rip right through you with Earthquakes otherwise. Even if you resisted Ground, it could just run Scarf and Rock Slide you to fish for flinches or soften you up to enable the other heavy hitters on their team to knock your Pokemon out, or even just wait until the end game when it could do so itself.

Arcanine is very capable and this meta seems almost made for it, but the only thing that Arcanine has going for it over Landorus is its versatility. Landorus pretty much does one thing, but does it extremely well, whereas Arcanine does a lot of different things pretty well. It's not particularly offensively threatening, and other purely defensive Pokemon do the whole "stay on the field and be annoying for as long as possible" better than Arcanine. It is just a pretty damn good mon with the meta the way it is. It does not shape the meta like Landorus did.

>>31527828
Don't forget that cancerus made literally every single physical ground type unviable. If that isn't the most cancerous shit a Pokemon can pull off, then I don't know what it is.

>>31528112
>If that isn't the most cancerous shit a Pokemon can pull off, then I don't know what it is

yet cresselia is still the most used vgc mon to date

>>31528120
Alright, time to stop replying to you now. You clearly know nothing aboug VGC.

>>31528120
u wot m8, cresselia isn't even allowed

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>>31528136
But I didn't lie anon

>>31528155
landorus isn't allowed this year either and yet we're discussing about it

>>31528176
But it's not the same thing. We're saying it's fucking cancer, more than Arcanine, contrary to what another person said earlier. Cresselia has nothing to do with the discussion.

>>31528199
Calm down m8, I did not say they are the same thing, I did not say Cresselia is cancer. I just pointed out a curious fact, nothing more.

Daily reminder that the stats on the Global Link are based off one week only. They might change as more people play on the ladder.

>>31528416
>>31526951

Realistically most people are missing the forest for the trees.

Arcanine is only even that highly used because of the Fairy guardians being that dominating. Simply put for 3 out of the 4 the best check you have out there is a Steel type, in fact it is the ONLY remotely decent check to most of them.

When you consider that Celesteela is also a thing which in itself can be considered a win condition and Kartana who sits in a obnoxious speed tier with too much coverage and stupid ability.

In comes Arcanine who actually can check 3 of the 4 Fairy guardians and rape Celesteela + most other Steel types. It becomes the third wheel that enables a Fairy guardian to go on a rampage and checks Fairy counters whilst also partially checking 3 of 4 of the Fairy guardians themselves

It all comes full circle.

The only way to break it is further up the food chain and run something to make the Fairies unviable without relying on a Steel type and it opens up choices for things who don't mind Arcanine.

>>31528450
?

>>31528513
that's why nihilego is the #1 anti-meta pick in this format. Even better if scarfed so that you can cuck scarfchomp.

Anyway, speaking of bank
if I import an unnerve aerodactyl from RBY can I breed it with a pelipper to get egg moves and still keep the hidden ability?

E66W-WWWW-WWW4-R59N

Goddamn I was about to bust my 3ds through the wall at the end there

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Game Freak...
Release him...

>>31529787
what would be a goood set/spread on intimidate incineroar?

>>31529843
I'm already running an assault vest with fake out/blitz/lariat/u-turn. I may consider dropping one of these moves for snarl

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I really like this core I have of goo.dra / p2 / muk / arcanine, but I'm really stuck on the last two mons.

Which one of these teams looks better?

http://pastebin.com/sP57fPyu

I really like araquanid's offensive pressure, since the rest of my team kinda lacks it, but I also like fini's ability to take lots of hits.

On the other hand, I need something on my team to deal with bulky waters and garchomp. Moonblast LO koko (nature power with misty terrain) can OHKO chomp and deal with waters and celesteela, whereas ninetales can also ohko it, break sashes, and set up screens, but isn't nearly as powerful.

>Decide to get into vgc
>spend a week breeding the team I want
>get into first battle
>first battle is full of shiny hackmons, including a raikou
Do they just not check the teams on battle spot?

>>31531198
did you go into a doubles game anon

you need to select championship battle

>>31531207
I guess I didn't, thanks anon

>>31531198
>implying the other player didnt' breed and soft reset during years and now with bank he can finally use his bros in SM

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which z-crystal do you carry in your team? which pokémon has it?

>>31527397
stay mad assbag arcanine is best doge

>>31525533
My Lunala is Modest
should I kms or can I salvage it

>>31527666
what spread are you using that can survive tectonic rage from garchomp?

i want to try out Unnerve Aerodactyl, and was thinking adding arcanine marowak and gastrodon to the team, but the team is kinda weak to garchomp. Any advices on who should i add?

>>31532363
Don't add Fairy or Ice Pokemon. I've heard those are awful vs Garchomp.

>>31532381
yeah, because garchomp always carries poison jab or fire fang for coverage top kek

Is it possible to make Bewear good? Is Thunderpunch or Ice Punch a better move for him? What are some pokemon that work well with Bewear?

>>31532512
Pheromosa barely exists in this fairy-infested meta, why would you think that Bewear has a chance

>>31532545
Because he's fluffy and he looks cute.

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>>31525533
>out of the 10 top used pokemon, 4 are fairies

>>31532187
groundium krook and firium arcanine

>>31533060
pretty normie taste desu

>>31529413
yeah i don't see why you wouldn't be able to do that

you have mixed chances of HA passing down depending on the gender though

>>31532363
carry Icebeam Porygon 2

wen st louis

Can someone explain why Milotic is so underused when Arcanine and Garchomp are the two most used Pokémon in the format?

Played 5 games with an Adrenaline Orb one today, and it either got a boost in every game or scared away Arcanine enough for my physical attackers to dominate the game.

>>31535034
While I don't think it's bad because it checks Arcanine, Garchomp, and scares away intimidates, it can't really do much against the Tapus or most of the top 30 in usage, really. Not without the boost at least.
Don't get me wrong though, I do think it can be very good on certain teams, just not as splashable as Garchomp or Arcanine. If it only had Icy Wind it would be way more used, imo.

>>31535214
if I didn't take so long making a team I would've come up with a gimmick set involving milotic and shiinotic due to its signature move, strength sap.

>>31535034
dude kartana lmao

Seriously though, the AFK core isn't threatened by many teams.

>>31535338
I don't understand your gimmick

>>31535504
strength sap lowers attack but does no damage and heals based on the targets HP
Shiinotic can be made to be bulky either specially or defensively
I guess it's less a gimmick, more just synergy between the two.

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FUCKING SMOGON. WHAT'S TAKING THEM SO LONG TO UPDATE SHOWDOWN

Reminder to pay attention to Battlespot Doubles because it's going to be VGC2018 (or maybe VGC2018+megas)

>>31535550
I don't know if that's where you're going, but keep in mind Competitive doesn't activate if the drops are inflicted by the partner

>>31535346
With 140ish EV investment and AO, Milotic out speeds after Intimidate. Obviously 1v1 Milotic will get shit on, but if played around properly the opponent could easily be forced into boosting Milotic with Intimidate or it can at least be conserved until late game.

>>31535346
By that logic Fini shouldn't be used at all and yet here we are.

>>31535911
Oh wait, seriously? That's lameeeeeeeeeeeeee.

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>>31535723
>VGC2018+megas
>megas

>>31536514
>+megas
>no mega mawile
what's the point

>>31535723

My BSD team is currently lossless at 1780ELO

http://pastebin.com/Z0kKpjZV

Azumarill/Muk-A is just sick nasty. If you pass Huge Power to Muk, he has higher attack than a lv100 muk with the same offensive investment.

>>31535723
>they blocked gen 1-5 mons
Kinda wanted to meme on people with Magmar

>>31536940
What's the meme?

>>31536944
Just the Follow Me set

>>31536992
>not gluttony belch to shit on tapus

>>31537006
Petaya*
Or any of the upgraded nature berries

>>31529787
February maybe

The way they released Mewnium kind of parallels with Celebi in ORAS, so we might get HA Starters like how we got HA Johto Starters

I probably should have waited until sets were out, but I caught my Lunala as a Modest one.

Unfortunately, it seems that modest is apparently useless and Lunala just tries to kill other Lunala. Any advice? I feel like I fucked up.

>>31537513
>lunala in vgc

>>31537576
woops wrong thread, thought I was posting this in the competitive thread sorry

committing slumbercide

Was their any confirmation as to whether or not we can use the Kanto counterparts in VGC?

>>31538232
we cannot use them

Is the Battle Spot leaderboard/usage stat page not working for anyone else?

>>31538239
RIP Raichu. I guess I can still run the A-Raichu/Tapu Koko/Tapu Lele core.

>>31532272
>>31537513
new meme?

>>31532381
Fairies and Ice types can't handle a Intimidated Garchomp?

http://www.trainertower.com/pokebank-changes-vgc-17/

>>31539787
Didn't think about Assurance Muk, might be cool

>>31532512
After bank maybe, Bewear is one of the few Wide Guard users in this meta with actual coverage. Still doesn't look good for it with how the biggest hitters are special based and it still has terrible fighting STAB options.

>>31535034
One reason is Kartana.

It's the ultimate noob Pokemon, doesn't require any positioning because of it's ridiculous attack and speed plus typing and defense makes its glass cannon s.def of little consequence.

Secondly Milotic without it's boost does very little to anything and has next to no coverage or support options. When something like Lele can 2HKO something as spongy as Milotic and takes very little back you have problems.

Kartana is another reason you'll keep seeing more of Arcanine as it's such a little shit and the dog is one of the few half decent answers against it.

Finally you'll find that most players the second they see Milotic just never bring their Arcanine which takes it back to the second point of Milotic without a boost being deadweight.

>>31539787
That is a pathetic article, there is a lot more available than that from bank.

>>31540082
name 5 more notable egg moves or abilities

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>>31540082
>there is a lot more available than that from bank

>>31540176
>name 5 more notable egg moves or abilities

>finally get a team together
>doing alright so far, two wins and two losses
>playing someone
>d/c
>try to play again
>d/cs before I even start the match
>try one more time
>d/c's near the end of the match
>go to see if this is affecting my ranking
>it is
>d/c again before a match begins because apparently you can't check your rating without getting into a game

I just want to play
Does anyone have a solution to constant disconnections
I can't think of what would fix this off the top of my head, I'm so fucking bummed.

Is rating battle down for anyone else?

>>31542186
>down

ehehehe

Can someone explain what is this positioning people are talking about?

The way I hear some people use it, makes it sound like it has some sort of bonus to doing it properly.

>>31543914
It's just their new word. Last couple of years it was momentum, now it is positioning.

>>31543914
It just means maneuvreing people into a bad situation where you can get off a kill, switching would be the most obvious method. But with Doubles it gets a bit trickier because more factors come into play.

It just wasn't a big thing till Gen 6 onwards because games ended so quick with a few nukes due to pre-Gen6 typechart being fucking retarded and being far more matchup based.

It became more possible take a lot of big hits and it's less about blowing someone away and more creating a advantageous situation with good reads.

>>31543945
Momentum is a real thing but only really in Singles where Volt Turning is a thing and does create extra turn advantages all the time.

So what's the rule on Pkhex/sav/injects in VGC? Are they allowed as long as they follow being an actual possibly existing pokemon? Will the judges at events care?

>>31544197
>Are they allowed as long as they follow being an actual possibly existing pokemon?

Yes.

>Will the judges at events care?

They pretend to care, but no. Unless you have something painfully obvious, they won't DQ you because they can't prove if you injected something.

so what are the new hot strategies for battlespot doubles (aka most likely to be VGC18)? is chalk still unstoppable?

>>31544233
Thanks. That's what I figured.

>>31540082

>expecting anything good out of Trainer Tower

Battlespot doubles ELO hell on showdown is full of people mistaking it for the VGC ladder, shit's hilarious

>All these fucking scarf Kokos, Kartanas and Garchomps
>I've even started to see fucking Scarf Pheromosa
Jesus Christ.

>>31547015
what?

What are some good partners to a Raichu/Koko/Lele core? Is Ninetales worth using with such a frail core, or would hail damage just negate A-veil?

>>31548355
Everyone and their mom is running scarf right now. It's very annoying.

I'm this close to start running hard TR. Might as well considering Snorlax is becoming the next flavor of the month.

I just hatched a shiny cubone with an adamant nature, but it's good IVs are Atk, Def, and SpA. Should I just use some bottle caps or keep breeding?

>>31548940
reaching level 100 is easily faster than breeding a shiny with ideal ivs

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>>31548989
ok then. What's a good EV spread for Marowak? What are some moves that Marowak should be using? Who works well with Marowak? I should mention that this was in Pokemon Moon, so it'll become an alolan Marowak.

>>31527397
>Arcanine is 100 times more cancerous than Landorus-T because at least with Landorus-T you end up with a way or two to naturally kill him as you teambuild unlike with cancerdog.
>naturally
>slapping icebeam and Hidden Power Ice onto every special pokemon
>naturally

lmao, Arcanine has close to 0 offensive presence, even if you put a Band on it. All it does is sit around and be fat.

Go home singlesfag, you clearly don't understand why VGC Landorus is VGC Landorus.

>>31549128
>Arcanine has close to 0 offensive presence, even if you put a Band on it. All it does is sit around and be fat.
Even though the other anon is wrong regarding landorus, this is objectively false

>>31549128
You have to be one special kind of retarded if your team doesn't end up with one ice beam user, or any water move at all.

You have to be actively trying to not put a single water or ice move on your team to end up with a team without either.

Nearly 5 years and people still are unable to do this and keep whining about Landorus being one-mon-army invincible sweeping machine.

>Arcanine has close to 0 offensive presence, even if you put a Band on it. All it does is sit around and be fat.
Hahaha oh wow.

Here's a (you)

What's a typical set for Salazzle looking like?

Fake out
Taunt
Sludge bomb
Insert fire move here?

How the fuck did a mono rock type become more viable than salamance?

>>31541809
Anybody have suggestions or were the servers fucking up this morning and I was just extremely unlucky
But then the disconnects were from my end

Also, I need advice on what to replace on my team, and possibly a bulky gyarados set. Normally I used nugget bridge ages ago but unfortunately the website died.


My team is Gyarados, Mudsdale, Togedemaru, Shiinotic, A-persian, and gengar.
The four games I played made it very clear that togedemaru wasn't doing anything besides deterring tapu koko from using electric type moves, which would be fine but he can't do anything back with the standard set, and I feel like a lightning rod user isn't really needed since I'm only using the one water type and I have a ground type, in addition to another fake out user...Just not sure what would help my team. I feel like I need some form of speed control, maybe tailwind whimsicott to replace shiinotic and then something else that functions better for a trick room match up?

>>31550942

Great new ability for it.

Provides chip damage and just doesn't die in a very defensive meta.

Salazzle Mandibuzz Tapu Fini Kartana sound good as a core?

Anyone having issues with battle spot right now?
Can't find a single opponent.

>>31552180
Right now is ded hours on BS, not to mention that some people might have been hit by the banhammer for being idiots.

>>31552221
Is it? Darn, I was earning back my rank after those four disconnects in a row last night.

>>31550986
Do I need to elaborate more on the team? Most are standard sets. Shiinotic is just bold 252/252/4 HP/DEF/SPD
Mudsdale's really the only one with a different set. At some points I feel like togedemaru does its job but it feels like it can't really do anything after whatever electric type is gone. It's air balloon so garchomp has to try and hit it with fire fang or dragon claw before EQing. I'm not sure on shiitnotic, either, I've only brought him once, the garchomp just seems to be an issue in general because of poison jab, which if I remember right I think shiinotic can live one, but otherwise I'm at a loss as to what to use.

Can anyone tell me why most people running Alolan persian use somewhere along the line of 220 and 236 EVs for speed?

>>31529843
Maybe something along the lines of...

Incinium Z
Darkest Lariat
Overheat
Fake out
(Coverage/Swords Dance)

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>>31529843
>>31530028
>>31554636

And how about a fully defensive/support Incineroar?
Would it be viable with Intimidate? Something like
>Fake out
>Snarl
>Taunt
>Will-o-wisp / Protect

>>31555029
That would be a waste, to be honest. You'd better use Arcanine for that.

>>31555925
but arcanine doesn't have fake out, nor taunt, nor STAB snarl

>>31556356
stab snarl doesn't matter, arcanine has roar to still deter TR, and im honestly not convinced fake out is worth the moveslot even on incineroar

>>31551585
Bump

Is Salazzle good now that it has fake out?

Should I run focus sash or misty seed on mandibuzz?

Is calm mind Fini the best Fini?

Should I replace Kartana with something else that would benefit from hail, or add Gigalith?

>>31551585 (You)
>>31557212 (You)
>>31557241 (You)

>>31551585
>opponent used Tapu Koko
>you fainted

>>31557241
>Is Salazzle good now that it has fake out?
It's better than before, not sure if it's good, but can be useful
>Should I run focus sash or misty seed on mandibuzz?
>focus sash mandibuzz
nigga the bird is bulky as fuck, sash would be useless on it.

>Is calm mind Fini the best Fini?
depends on who you ask, but it's not a bad choice

>Should I replace Kartana with something else that would benefit from hail, or add Gigalith?
shit I don't know man, depends on the rest of your team. nothing really benefits from hail outside of blizzard users and sandslash, so instead make sure it doesn't hurt you, like breaking your own sash.

are you trying to make a team or just slapping together different pokemons with predetermined sets?

>>31557430
I'm making a mandibuzz Tailwind team with Fini and salazzle and maybe Kartana.

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>>31557241
>Should I run focus sash or misty seed on mandibuzz?
>misty seed on mandibuzz

>>31557464
I've seen misty seed mandibuzz work

>>31557464
it's pretty legit though. It doesn't even need to be grounded for it to activate

>>31557460
Stop clogging up the thread with your inane begging. 3 Pokemon a team does not make. Build an entire team and test it out on Battlespot/Showdown. Post results here after you have had like 20-30+ battles.

>>31554415
220 EV should be pretty obvious, it creeps out positive base 110's, 236 creeps out base 112 AKA Lycanroc. Nobody likes even attempting to deal with a speed tie in a game full of way too many coin flips as it is and A-Persian can't do shit to itself so it's not worth running full speed.

Something you'll begin to notice in this fucked up Aloladex meta is that there is a huge discrepency in speed tiers, it basically goes something like. In the upper speeds there are these massive gaps where there is absolutely nothing in between.

It just goes 95< 102< 109< Nothing matters <130 < Pheromosa < Fuck you I'm ScarfLele < Fuck you harder I'm ScarfKartana

>>31554415
it has 115 base speed, so the only relevant things in speed after it are Raichu and Gengar at 110, so going max speed is kind of a waste, since you can still outspeed them while investing a little less. You could also outspeed Lycanroc at 112, but nobody uses it and it can't do much to you anyway so fuck that. Persian itself isn't all that common so the fake out speed ties shouldn't be much of a problem (not that I would risk fake outing a persian with my own even if I was max speed)

>>31558077
>scarftana
for what purpose

>>31560039
I imagine to get one over Scarfluxe, Koko and some Tailwind users and you can get away with it because between 181 atk and a surprise +1 Beast Boost it can snowball into a sweep.

As much as I find it stupid personally you still have to consider it because it's the 3rd most used item on it, something like 20% of Kartana are Scarf.

>>31560039
There's practically no priority in the meta and next to none speed control. Scarf is pretty much the only option fast-mons have to subvert the speed-tiers. The core of the issue is Koko really, it was all to start outspeeding it and now everyone is running scarf because everyone is scarfed.

I'm even starting to see Scarf Pheromosas here and there. It's gotten really silly.

Bet on bulk and TR. That'll be what'll dominate the next meta shift.

>>31555029
>fully defensive
absolute garbage. You bring it to a game and you're basically already down 3-4.

>>31560906
TR always becomes the dominant strategy as metas evolve. it's happened pretty much every year of VGC thus far, no?

>>31557241
I think salazzle is pretty bad honestly but the fact that it can beat 2/3 of the infamous AFK core may make it worth a try.

>>31557071
I've always thought that every mon that learns fake out must use it, but you might be onto something here. Question is, what would a non-fake out incineroar do better than Arcanine other than being more useful in a TR situation and ignoring Psychic?

>>31560906
>bulk and TR
>meta shift

literally e v e r y o n e who wasn't retarded knew this would be the meta the minute we had the aloladex and new move/item info.

There was a smogon thread started in the VGC forum like a few days after the leak and one of the first posts brings up Porygon2, Arcanine and Snorlax as 3 of the pokemon with the most potential in this meta, in addition to obvious shit like Garchomp.

>>31560983
Not exactly. Rather, teams that can work both in and out of TR become the dominant ones.

It goes more or less like this

>Wow, TR is shit this year!
>Wow, TR is good this year!
>Wow, teams that can work under TR but not be fully dependent on it sure are good this year!

>make a cheese team for an upcoming PC with a Bank-only breeding move
>judges come out and say only pre-Bank moves can be used at tournaments

Why is TCPI such shit?

>>31561042
I'm calling it, they'll update the rules but with a bunch of errors like the Silvally incident from last time.

>>31561042
>only pre-Bank moves can be used at tournaments
I call bullshit on that rule. As long as the pokemon is bred in alola and in the alola dex there shouldn't be any problem.

>>31561080

>Rule 5.1. Case 1 - Severe Tier 2
>Any Alola Pokémon with a move that cannot be learned prior to the launch of Pokémon Bank in 2017.

Says it right there in the rulebook, so unless the rules get updated sometime in the very near future keep your pre-Bank stuff on Battle Spot.

It is very much bullshit, but TCPI is TCPI.

>>31561226
wow I hope they fix that soon, it would be a mojor blunder
then again
>TPCI

>>31561226

Another fun fact: Rule 5.4 doesn't have a "Prior to Pokémon Bank" qualifier in it, so literally anything in a Dream Ball, Park Ball, Safari Ball, or Sport Ball is still illegal. This also goes for things like Porygon and Fossils that could be caught in balls other than Poké Balls in the past.

>signing up for the NPA because why not, it looks fun
>fucking everyone one the forum has topcutted multiple tournaments
I think we found the real problem with VGC as an esport.

>>31561314
I fail to see the problem there. Please explain.

>>31561314
fuck right off

>>31561322
He's bad so he feels bad when other people are better than him.

>>31561322
it looks like there's a huge divide between those that regularly attend events and the "casual" players that can only play online. I expected something like that to attract more newcomers.

>>31561366
While I understand what you mean, VGC has always been a primarily live-event thing. To actually part of the "community" you have to go to those yes or yes. Otherwise you are out of luck.

>>31561389
well I hope that changes sooner or later, I'm pulling percentages out of my ass but I'd say that maybe not even the 20% of people who play on the battlespot have ever joined an IRL event and those who didn't play the same game after all. Even though the VGC community is a lot frendlier and drama-free than other "esports" communities it also feels really exclusive and a bit circle-jerky.

>>31561428
Well yeah, some people just play for fun.

>it also feels really exclusive and a bit circle-jerky.
It is. I'd even say that it's even more than other "esport" communities because at least in those you can part of a group one way or another and there's smaller groups inside the big whole unlike the VGC "community" where it's either be part of the NB clique or get out.

>>31561491
I'd say that is more the circuit's fault than the players. There aren't many small tournaments going around and it's difficult to just hang out and play with friends like you'd do with any TCG, it's either go big or go home.

>>31561366
there's a third group you're missing -- the players that regularly attend events but are mostly there to have fun and end up coming 3-5

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why the fuck is weakness policy tapu fini so rare?

>>31561598
why does that group seem so silent tho? I guess their opinion may not be that important but at least the community would be a little more lively. Heck, it looks like there's more relevant pokemon than pokemon players.

>>31561643
>why does that group seem so silent tho?
Because they don't really get involved with the community at large. They mostly just stick to normie sites or their circles of friends.

They're fun to chat to at tournaments though since they aren't nearly as big-headed as the top players are.

>>31561564
This has been an "issue" that's been going for years so I don't think blaming this year terribad circuit is fair.

>>31561642
Because Kartana and Koko who are the main things that hit it super effectively hit really fucking hard either to death or near death leaving Fini a very small window to abuse her +2.

You guys are really wrong about vgc. There is no nb clique that site has been low traffic for years and is basically dead now. There's a ton of friend groups you can be a part of. Use the event tracker show up to pcs mss regionals. Meet people. If you are friendly you can make connections. Playing well shows you are worth including in discussions about teams and sharing resources you seem to expect to be included in vgc circles having accomplished nothing and if these posts are any indicator of how you act IRL that's probably your main issue in breaking into vgc.

Tldr show up be friendly playing well helps

>>31562351
t. Scott.

>>31562351
Yeah, and these people also think top players were born on top instead of growing better over the years, starting from the ground.

>>31562351
>There is no nb clique that site has been low traffic for years and is basically dead now.
People aren't referring to the site in specific when referring to the NB Circlejerk. The people, which are the ones referred to when that term is being used, still exist whether NB the site is alive or not.

I'd add that if you're poor like me and don't have a car really look at what public transportation is available.odds are there's a bus or train near you that can get you to regs. Hotels are expensive this is where friends come in. Airbnb is a thing also. But be nice! Always. Alberto Lara is supposedly publishing a thing on getting cheap airplane tickets soon. Use every site available to compare prices. Buy far in advance.

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>people trying to push pokemon as esport
>people traveling to play pokemon
>people complaining about cliques in "competitive" pokemon

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>>31562543
is this spam?

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>>31562751
All this dramatalk always goes my head.

I literally don't remember the name of a single "pro player". Whenever there's a stream I just cheer for whoever I think has the coolest team. I don't go to events because there's none in my country so I just play online, and half of the time I play with "fun" teams and the other half with "serious" teams.

Everyone should learn to take it easy.

>>31562839
>I literally don't remember the name of a single "pro player". Whenever there's a stream I just cheer for whoever I think has the coolest team.

>Everyone should learn to take it easy.

Amen, brother.

>>31562881
>>31562839
But according to that trainer tower article people not focusing enough on top players is what's holding VGC back from being esports

>>31562940
pokemon can never be esports until game freak dies and the pokemon IP is passed to an actually fucking competent developer

>>31562940
So we're the problem?

>>31562940
How much more focus on top players can there possibly be than the focus there's right now? Of all the "esports" I've been part of none focuses as much on the players and jerking them like Pokemon does.

>>31562951
Don't forget TCPi actually giving a shit about VGC rather than it subsisting by the leftovers TCG leaves on it's wake.

>>31562973

I feel like there's a lot more emphasis on players in something like, say, League of Legends or Smash Bros. I don't necessarily agree with the argument that article makes, but there isn't really an emphasis by TCPI itself on the players.

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>>31562940
>casual players please acknowledge how pro we are!!

>>31563016
>by TCPI itself on the players.
Well, that's a different thing. I was talking about the community regarding this one aspect.

TCPi doesn't put emphasis on the damn game itself in first place anyway. That's the biggest thing people should be worrying about, not that TCPi doesn't wank Aaron's little chink dick or Wolfe's mutilated jewish cock as much as they feel they should get wanked.

>>31563040
The author actually doesn't even play VGC, he's an outsider giving his views on the scene or some shit like that.

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>Pokémon e-sport

Why do people want this? Pokémon is the only videogame I play "competitively" because it's actually not an e-sport community.

Every e-sport is a cancerous cringe-fest bullshit trying to make videogame tournaments look like the super bowl or some shit like that, but with autist teenagers playing games too seriously intead.

Hell, even the term "e-sport" sounds cringey already.

>>31563138
I remember years ago these same people now trying their hardest to turn Pokemon into an "esport" were the ones saying that they played Pokemon for fun and for the community and that any winning they'd made were just a bonus but not the main focus. How things change.

>>31563138
>Every e-sport is a cancerous cringe-fest bullshit trying to make videogame tournaments look like the super bowl or some shit like that, but with autist teenagers playing games too seriously intead.

By that definition, Pokemon already is an e-sport, though it has a lower budget

>>31563216
That's the thing that bothers these people pushing for this "change". They wanna make it so that they win hundreds of thousands every year.

>>31563313
No, it's for the good of the game! They're only trying to promote VGC!

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What did he mean by this?

>lily white Scottish man calling ryuzaki a 'nigga'
Also note she provided the only way to play and test teams online for two years by running the skarmbliss server from her apartment (hoodlum scrafty has no clue about the history of the game, stuck his nose into vgc twitter and got rekt, deleted all his tweets and proceeded to call anyone with VGC in their names 'cunts')

https://twitter.com/ryuzaki_vgc/status/824601536407953408

https://twitter.com/ryuzaki_vgc/status/825019007128461312

more drama :^)

>>31563504
>proceeded to call anyone with VGC in their names 'cunts'
Deserved. When I see someone with VGC on their name I imagine a retard thinking he'll be the next Cybertron.

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>>31563504
>She
>Her

>>31563533
are you telling me a 5'2 girl with a squeaky voice is actually a man?

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>e-celebrities

Really starting to miss gen 3 ~ 4 when competitive pokemon was less autistic.

>>31563574

But there aren't any girls that play video games lol

>>31563574
>Height
Manlets exist. HRT early is a thing too.

>Voice
Can be trained.

>>31563637
ok like jokes are funny but if you've met zaki she's a petite little girl she's not a dude and I don't know where this meme came from.

>>31563637
>>31563607
Way to add into the autism.

reminder that VGC becoming an esport is exactly the best way to kill it

>>31563658
Don't worry, it won't be an esport. People who think it will be are delusional.

Bump, there's a PC tomorrow and this thread needs to be available so you can all apologize to me when I win with mememons.

>>31566781
What's your memeteam anon?

>>31566781
What's the team so we know who you are?

>>31561226
This is being discussed on the official judge forums. It's clearly meant to mean "Any Alola Pokémon with a move that cannot be learned prior to the launch of Pokémon Bank, before Pokémon Bank is released in 2017", but they fucked up the wording and have to stick by it until they issue another rule document.

>>31525533
bumping to save

>

>go to play online again to try and get my rank back up to the starting point due to a series of disconnects
>connect with someone after not finding a single person yesterday
>really low rank, easy win but enough to where I'd go back up
>disconnect thirty seconds later
I'm not allowed to fucking play
WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING LET ME FUCKING PLAY FUCK YOU

Breeding those 30 in the op is a good start to get into VGC?
Also from PGL i can check moves natures and team comps but how do i check evs spreads?
For example my Arcanine is 252 SDef Hp with firespin snarl morningsun and toxic, and i want to know what set is running that number 1.

>>31569012
you can't see EV spreads onthe PGL

>>31563138
>Why do people want this?
Money.

Don't kid yourself, traveling for tournaments costs a lot of money and time. Many people who play the games are working adults or full time students and TPCi do themselves no favours with their piss poor frequency/distribution of available tournaments either.

People want to be compensated for it, especially since because VGC is more of a less formal competitive scene with a lack of events where there is no way you could get sponsors to offset the costs.

Even the grassroots VGC tournaments are circlejerks with just small groups trying to get sanctioned more as a vehicle for TCG points but then closing off the event as invites only and they give so little points it's irrelevant.

>>31560983
Not really.

Do you want to tell me Cresselia with Trick Room dominates anything? Trick Room has always just been used as a means of speed control, an extra. Dedicated Trick Room teams always tend to fail miserably after a while.

>>31561023
Probably not helped either by Lele turning less than 95 base speed into a no man's land. It's like Gen 1 all fucking over again.

>>31569012
EV spreads vary so much that it's difficult to give usage stats in them
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-12/moveset/gen7vgc2017-1500.txt
Showdown usage stats show spreads, but most of them will be split up like
252SpA/ 252Spe/ 4HP
252SpA/ 252Spe/ 4Def
252SpA/ 252Spe/ 4SpD
being completely different entries

Generally I just do 252/252/4 spreads unless I plan to use it in a tournament, it's way easier to EV train minmaxed spreads in-game.

>>31566781
are you going to socal PC? if so it isn't streamed so hf. its pretty free theres maybe like one or two good players that.

>>31569214
I top cut Nats a few years ago with what I would consider a "hard trick room" team, but even that had a a Scarf Rotom stuck on, for when Trick Room wouldn't work out.

It's the same as shit like Perish Trap in 2015; sure, you can build a team around it, but if you're resigning yourself to losing to anybody immune to Shadow Tag, you're not going to win any tournaments. Every team needs options.

>>31563504
why do i keep seeing duncankneedeep everywhere?
he is probably the most obnoxious person i have ever seen playing pokemon.

>>31569405
I met him at Worlds. He's nice enough, but clearly very autistic (literally, not a generic insult), and does the standard YouTuber thing of acting like he's a millionaire celebrity.

He also hadn't qualified for Worlds and was just there for the Pokkén LCQ. He dropped out when he was due to go on the stream (presumably because he was scared of the backlask if he lost)

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how the fuck did my celeseela get paralized by a tri-attack in misty terrain?
anyone know?

>>31570277
It's not grounded, so it's not affected by terrain

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It's time for comfy VGC streaming weekend.

The streaming for the Tenerife Midseason Showdown is going to start soon. The name of the Twitch account is:
>mastercupleague

Sekiam the screenpeeker (the eiropean champion) will be in it.

If you know about any other local VGC streaming in your country, post it here too.

Anyone knows what set do people use on gigalith and araquid?

>>31568780
Somebody help me please
I feel like I'm not allowed to play after training mons and all that because every time I bother I disconnect
That person I disconnected from earlier was an easy win, just why.

>>31536647
Axing half the megas, and locking away the rest behind 64 BP apiece was a fucking mistake.
What the fuck was the point?

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ORAS only tutor moves are usable in pokemon showdown vgc 2017, so if you want to use earth power gastrodon and hyper voice sylveon in VGC while it's available try it before it's fixed

>>31570791
Seriously? Surely it should only be the ones that can be bred as egg moves? I thought you could only trade forward, not backwards, with Bank?

>>31570903
It's a bug, you can only trade forward in bank, most tutor only moves can't be breed, and are therefore illegal in VGC2017

>>31570352
stream is up

>>31571716
Dear lord what a garbage stream

https://www.twitch
.tv/mitpokemonleague

Massachusetts midseason showdown stream here (no commentary)

when does pgl update their stats?

>>31570671
Gigalith is usually Assault Vest.

Araquanid is usually Waterium

Honestly not much else to be said, they're both pretty one trick ponies.

>>31572524

use this >>31526951

>>31572568
>Gigalith is usually Assault Vest

u wot

People use WP more than AV. By far the most common item on it is Rockium Z.

>>31525760
Did Alolan ninetales save the Ice type?

>>31525533
poor tapu bulushit
twenty away from the rest of the tapus

>>31572524
weekly, around Tuesday I think

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reminder that there's 2 streamings right now on twitch
>mastercupleague
>mitpokemonleague

How do I into teambuilding?

>>31573436
read op's pastebin

>>31525533
>gastrodon
all swampert needs is recover
GF please help him

>>31573520
People would still use gastrodon because it has storm drain

Is there a list of Bank-breedable moves somewhere?

>>31573572
http://www.trainertower.com/pokebank-changes-vgc-17/

What are some underrated gems?

>>31573614
The normal type gem. At least is the only one available right now, since gen 6 scrapped all the others.

>>31573634
I've seeing some normal gem explosion landorus on vgc

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snorlax/fini guy is in the finals of the tenerife MSS now

>>31573614
We have too much autism to answer your question if you ask it like that.

>>31574014
Is it over now? And any streams going on now?

>>31574014
>>31574258
nvm its online now

>>31574258
the spanish on ended
the other is called mitpokemonleague on twitch

>>31574278
>nvm
what?

>>31574315
nevermind. Also lol @blizzard spam

what's the best set for a trick room porygon2?

everytime I check what's standard for porygon2 in this format it's always something different, like, return and some shit right now

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>>31574325

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last reminder
1/4

>>31574385
Why do you keep shilling this
It's outdated and we have actual battle spot usage data now

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>>31574515
this.

>>31574385

Fuck off, Zach.

>>31573767

>Landorus
>VGC

>>31574814
this your first year playing vgc, isn't it?

shit stream

>>31574870
>seeing

>>31574870

Kind of hard to tell because of your terrible grammar but "I've seeing" seems to imply "I have been seeing recently" which means you're an idiot.

Probably have been playing longer than you, kid.

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>>31574385
2/4

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>>31574940
2/4

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>>31574958
3/3

>>31574940
>>31574958
>>31574982
Don't you have better things to do Zach? Like sutweeting people with passive aggresive messages, stroking your dick because you don't do things other people do, and registering accounts for Ian in Trainer Tower?

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another stream
>/aonstreams

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the tenerife MSS ended, these are the current VGC streams:

>mitpokemonleague
>aonstreams

tip: use multitwitch for maximun weekend comfiness

What best-of-one memes are on your team right now? You DO have some, r-right Anon?

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good vgc

>>31575515
does togedemaru count as a meme?
if so, togedemaru

>>31575545
Do you have a 0 speed grubbin anon?

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thoughts?

>>31575768
>>31575008

>>31575850

sleep tight, grubber

incineroar on the stream

>>31575515
Eeveeboost is still a thing. Follow me, Eeveeboost, batonpass into Krookodile and sweep with Power Trip (it OHKOs everything in the format except for Fini and Buku I believe.)

Belly Drum Snorlax featuring psych-up Mimikyu and Speed Swap Pheromosa

And don't you forget the good old Scarf Smeargle with Frost Breath targeting your own Anger Point Tauros.

>>31575515

Been trying to make Beat Up Whimsicott + Justified Lucario work. Have about a 50% success rate, which is more or less what I expected to happen.

anyone watching the stream?

>>31577249
yes and lmao @Double team, should just have EQ/Z-EQ instead.

How do you beat Ribombee Dance bullshit? Fake out or bust?

>>31577725
Scarf Lunar Dance Smeargle :^)

>>31576400
And all of them are bad and you're bad if you use them, and even worse if you lose to them

Can someone help me out developing my team? So far I've got this http://pastebin.com/fHGZy3Sy

I feel like I have too many weaknesses to ground and not nearly enough tanky stuff. I was considering swapping Arcanine with Gyarados but the dog has been serving me well.

Any suggestion for improvement?

>>31576830
try it with justified arcanine

>>31575515
Togedemaru lead with Pyukumuku wall setter on a rain team

>>31579114
>he thinks eevee is bad

>>31579332
Switch the Alowak or Arcanine for something else. You don't need two bulky fire types.

I came up with a team that I think is pretty solid, I have the EVS up on another tab, anyone want to give me advice as to what might give my team difficulties?

Jolly Scarf Chomp
Quiet min speed Vikavolt
Brave min speed A-Muk
Modest Porygon 2
DD Jolly Gyarados
Burn Orb Hariyama

The only thing I can think of is that I have a bit too many physical attackers, but they cover almost everything. I think gastrodon might give me issues, alongside hail teams? Not sure.

I haven't even bred the team yet, but to me it looks solid on paper.

>>31583674
Your only answer to Garchomp is Porygon.

>>31583794
HP ice vikavolt, ice fang on gyarados, dragon claw?

>>31577725
I know a guy who uses it, and leads every game with it at every Premier Challenge, and has lost almost every game in three consecutive tournaments. Ways to beat it:
>KO it
>KO its partner
>Use tailwind
>Use Fake Out
>Use Trick Room
>Bring something that walls it

>>31557071

so true
incineroar needs better movepool, maybe gen 8

do you use any non-30-most-used pokémon in your team?

>>31584757
my team has a Sash Alakazam + Scarf Lele offensive core. hits hard if you can get psy terrain up.

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reminder

any streams today?

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Has anyone tried bounce magikarp in VGC 2017?
It's supposedly legal, isn't it?

http://www.serebii.net/events/dex/129.shtml

>>31587817
you can't use a two-turn move in a format where everyone and their grandma has protect

not like gyarados can make room for it anyway with waterfall, ice fang, protect, DD, and taunt

>>31588001
I'm asking for the legality, not the viability

>>31587817
it is legal. It makes for a nice Z move, though I'm not sure if it's the best on it

>>31588001
>taunt

>>31588001
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 178-210 (100.5 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

you use it for the z-move nigga

>>31588148
>has to be +1
>won't even KO a fini with defensive EVs (AKA every CM and/or Swagger set)
>same BP as Z-Waterfall but on a worse attacking type

shiggy diggy

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Migrate whenever:

>>31588767
>>31588767
>>31588767
>>31588767