VGC Discussion General

>>30922364
Kek. What's the point of this image? Is it to prove that VGC has now become cancer?

>>30922364
all the other people on the left pic died

>>30922806
Or grew up and got real lives/jobs...

Also,why is Verlis constantly bitching on his Twitter about VGC.So salty

>>30922364
Who is that semen demon next to the girl in the pink top?

>>30922364
>comfy, healthy meta of love and genies
>cancer cesspool 2: electric bugaloo
Where did it all go so wrong

>>30922934
>why is Verlis constantly bitching
could have stopped typing there

Is Fighting STAB completely fucking useless? I can't think of a single common pokemon in the meta that it hits hard. Porygon2 is the only one and even then it doesn't do much damage. To kill Porygon2 you have to Knock Off anyway.

>>30922996
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't remember 11 having a ton of genies, since Therian forms didn't exist yet

>>30923032
same goes for psychic stab
no one in vgc 2017 is weak to psychic

>>30923032
>>30923079
What about bug?
What does it hit that is relevant?

>>30922980
Pretty sure that's Aaron Zheng.

>>30923102
bulu, oranguru, lele

>>30923130
Unfortunately, Fairy resists Bug for some fucking reason

>>30923130
Only one of those for SE though, the least used at that

>>30923079
Psychic stab at least has terrain support. Fighting is just really fucking useless.

>>30923168
>Fairy resists Bug for some fucking reason
biggest fucking farce of all times fuck GF

>>30923033
Oh yeah, mixed it up with 2012.

>>30923033
You're kidding, right?
One of the top teams in VGC11 literally run all of the 3 genies at the same time.

>>30923168

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE OPPOSITE! GRASS AND BUG COULD HAVE GONE FOR A FAIRY RESISTANCE BIG TIME

THEY THOUGHT THAT FAIRY RESISTING BUG WOULD STOP U-TURN, BUT SINCE GAMEFREAK IS FUCKING RETARDED, THEY DIDNT REALIZE PEOPLE DONT USE
U-TURN FOR OFFENSIVE COVERAGE!

>>30922934
Why do you even know that?

Why did that guy Megahorn his own Obama?

>>30922364
>testing memes on showdown
>have gastrodon in red health
>try to z-stockpile
>opponent's tapu koko taunts my gastrodon
>gastrodon can't use z-stockpile!

Man, Showdown is fucking shit. From now on I'll just gen and test my memes on cart, resseting my rating every time.

Funny thing is, they're trying to have a big VGC tournament with money prizes on that piece of shit. Oh, Smogon.

>>30923706
What exactly are you mad about?

>26 fucking pages of sign-ups
This is gonna be a massive clusterfuck.

>>30923736
Taunt does not work on z-moves, cunt.

>>30923736
Z-moves, even status ones, aren't affected by Taunt on the real games.

>>30923758
Got the replay?

>>30923758
>>30923706
Then how about you report the bug so that it gets fixed instead of whining like a passive aggressive little bitch here? Are you a woman per any chance?

>>30923792
The bug has been reported when they added gen 7 support but it's still not fixed.

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>>30923033

>>30923893
I miss Flying Gem Tornadus so much. It's not fair.

>>30922623
>has now become

>>30922364
I used to hang out with him back in 11' and 12'
I recently got back in, what cancer awaits me?

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Who is this cutie?

>>30923345
You're confused, everyone ran Thunderus, but the other two were less common unless you ran rain for some reason.

genies did nothing wrong

>>30924245
Not much really.
If you actually play VGC instead of shitposting on "HEALTHY META" bait threads you'll notice this year is a good one.

>next internats in melbourne

woohoo, can't wait to watch 100 masters at best duke it out at 4am

>>30924788
>tfw Floridafag who got excited for a nanosecond
Every time

>>30924788
Source

>Fucking Australia of all places
Bravo TCPi

>>30924995
Whats wrong with this?

>>30925287
Australia is a shithole no one cares about. Even Spicland would be a better choice.

>>30924316
natalie kaspszak

>>30925407
Literally every region that has a playerbase gets an international. Stop crying and wait till your NA one comes in july.

>>30925407
>Even Spicland would be a better choice.
But then the tournament would be empty because all the spics would be turned away after trying to enter their team of shiny xerneas, shiny groudon, shiny zygarde, shiny lunala, shinymewtwo, and shiny rayquaza

Can anyone share those pictures with usage %, moveset and spreads of vgc17? I believe there were 4 of them. I was retarded and didn't save them.

>>30922623
It's just him showing that he started in '11.

>>30924995
They're globalizing. You can watch a rebroadcast. Shush.

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>>30925682
They're not up to date, though.

1/4

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>>30926567
2/4

>>30926567
Too bad there are no good grass types besides Bulu. Grass would be a great type right now because the common attacking types are Electric, Water, and Ground. you'd only have to watch out for Fire, but Torkoal usage has dropped off considerably so the only Fire attacks around now are marowak and arcanine

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>>30926647
If anything I wish there were more Knock-off users so Porygon 2 can finally fuck off. I hate seeing that dumb fat duck.

But yeah, the pokemon pool is pretty weird this time around.

>>30926625
3/4

>>30926647

Kartana is good.

>>30926647
Give Parasect a chance.

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>>30926770
4/4

>>30926874
This. Literally no one is prepared for redirection. You have no idea how much it messed with them.

>>30927088
Not just that. It works well under Grassy Terrain, Trick Room and Rain, and blocks most of the Tapus, exceptions being the random Megahorn on Bulu and, suprisingly, Specs Lele from the top of my head.

Thing is, the guy benefits from the current meta and it is being ignored for being a 'shitmon' that has too many weaknesses. But you'd be surprised how well it works on the right situations. Also, it benefited a lot from the Leech Life buff.

It has more than serious problems against A-Marowak or Sun teams though. It is a risky choice at the end of the day, but it can definitely compete this season.

>>30926874
>>30927088

Parasect is fucking garbage senpai. 60/80/80 defenses are way worse than Amoonguss at 114/70/80. Spore gets fucked over by electric/misty terrain being everywhere. Plus the gen 6 nerf to rage powder makes it significantly less viable in doubles which is why Amoonguss never regained its gen 5 relevance.

Yeah, you might catch people off guard, but under no condition is Parasect actually worth a slot on your team.

>>30926770
>Lilligant
>After You
Why not just set up Trick Room for Torkoal instead?

>>30927264
Parasect isn't great, but it's good enough to catch people off guard, as you just described.

But you're missing the point. Yes, Spore gets rekt by what you listed, but as >>30927088 said, you're not using Parasect because of Spore as you're not using Lilligant because of Sleep Powder. The topic is redirection, and how those defensive stats become irrelevant if it's in a Rain team and running Leftovers+Leech Life. Add that teams are underprepared for redirection in this early stages and you have a good member, albeit not a great member since it's still weak to common things like Poison Jab and have average-to-bad stats.

But we should be asking, how many Heat Waves or Sludge Waves are we seeing? We're seeing Discharges, but Parasect doesn't care about those, and you won't bring it against a Hail team like you'd not bring a plethora of other mons anyways.

Again, it's not the best choice, but it's hardly dead weight as it has tools for being considered as a team member. What other grass types would you recommend anyways? Besides Kartana, there's little to choose from.

>>30927190
yeah the main issue with it being 'good under rain' is that it's also outsped by and OHKO'd by the most common rain setter which it can do absolutely nothing to. Porygon2, the most common trickroom and anti-trickroom pokemon can 2HKO it unless it runs max special defense. and a boosting nature.

It shouldn't be a surprise that Lele also pulverizes it because it has flat out mediocre defenses, modest offenses and piss poor offensive coverage. If you're bringing it, it's basically for dry skin plus rage powder.

It can't even really counter Golduck teams because Golduck has a solid chance to 2HKO with ice beam. Sure, it can eat a hydro vortex but so can Gastrodon and Araquanid, and both can threaten common rain cores more effectively.

Parasect is good if grassy/tr/rain are all up but when you're looking at dropping 3 field effects to make one extremely meh support pokemon work, you're building yourself into a corner. If you want a grass type Kartana and Bulu are both very viable options.

>>30927264
>60/80/80 defenses are way worse than Amoonguss at 114/70/80
By this logic of yours Golduck shouldn't be seeing any usage and yet here we are.

>Spore gets fucked over by electric/misty terrain being everywhere
Fair point. Still, that's what you've got Bulu and Lele for, and even then, Parasect can also do other things like, you know, Rage Power, Leech Seed, and even Wide Guard too.

>Plus the gen 6 nerf to rage powder makes it significantly less viable in doubles which is why Amoonguss never regained its gen 5 relevance
Are you shitting me? Amoongus was fucking everywhere in both VGC14, being the actual reason why Sejun picked the Squirrel over it, and so was during VGC15. The only reason it was not used so much in 16 was because it was spread moves - the meta. Amoongus was hit by the spore-moves nerd as much as Garchomp is giving a fuck of Tapus The Meta meaning not a single fuck.

I'm not saying that Parasect will become a staple and take the meta by the balls and every team has to carry a Parasect counter now but saying it's 100% useless is plain bullshit.

>It has a counter so it's bad!
When will this meme die?

>>30927518
>garchomp isn't giving a single fuck of tapus

look at san jose usage buddy, IIRC top 16 had 3 chomps and top 8 had 1, top 4 had 0.

>>30927641
I guess that means Tapus are shit and literally unusable now because San Jose winner didn't have Tapus on his team, right? And the same goes for UBs too they totally all are PU shitmons now.

>>30927548
When something has an extremely hard counter that it can do literally nothing to and can always outspeed and OHKO it that is also at ~30% usage on cart you start having a serious viability problem even if the pokemon is good in a 'niche' role.

It's the same reason that a pokemon which is kind of meh in a vacuum but has really good matchups against pokemon that have the stats/moves to make them automatically OU/top tier material can be good. You can't ever really discuss whether something is good or not without discussing the environment around it.

>>30927683
No, all of this is due to Porygon2 being the real meta dominating force. Gavin's win is also a testament to how underrated Hariyama was, again, because of how good Porygon2 is. The Tapu obviously aren't shit but they're a sideshow when it comes to the real meta centralizing force. They compliment it or have to find ways to work around it, which is why you're *slowly* seeking Koko fall off from its hyper-usage.

That aside, 15/16 top 16 teams had at least one tapu and most had two. IIRC about half of teams used a UB. 3/16 had Garchomp Clearly, in terms of viability, there is a gap.

>>30927683
I'm with you, but this is not the right reply. You're just feeding him with it.

The problem with the community is that everything have to be OU or super OU to demand attention, else is shit. And that's not true at all, especially in VGC.

In Singles you can't use 'underpowered' mons in a competitive enviroment. In VGC you definitely can. See that Butterfree at San Jose? It is a shitmon, but is definitely viable.

Is Parasect viable? Yes, it is.
Is Parasect great? Nope.

That's what we should be discussing about. I know vp isn't the best place to discuss around, but I prefer it to places where people talk off their ego since, when people around here discuss instead of shitposting, interesting things come to light.

>>30927732 here gives fair points to discuss. I'd like to ask him if he doesn't consider the current meta as a good enviroment for Parasect to compete? Because this >>30927463 also speaks truth about why it can be considered in a team. If Parasect ever becomes used, I expect it to have the same life expectancy Lilligant had or is having. They're niches, but that doesn't mean they have no place.

Someone named Pachirisu again. We can't forget someone became a World Champion with a 'shitmon' on his team. VGC is this kind of game and it's the reason why it's so good compared to singles.

>>30927832
Gee, it's almost like metagames evolve or something. Who'd have thought?

>>30927848
>Someone named Pachirisu again. We can't forget someone became a World Champion with a 'shitmon' on his team.
Do we really have to do this again? Like, seriously. It's been close to 3 fucking years.

>>30927732
thats the exact mistake people keep making when discussing placement of unreleased pokemon

>>30927848
would you say that people get more excited for pokemon that fall into that "viable" sweetspot?

>>30927915
When people refuse to discuss because a pokemon has bad stats or is low on the smogon tier list? Yes. Yes we have.

There seems to be a lot of new blood on the VGC scene and if we don't discuss things properly, then we have to wait until a pokemon shows itself on stream to have the big realization.

Remember that before the London internationals pokemon like Pelipper and Togedemaru were considered jokes. Look the threads during London internationals and you will see wtf reactions at people using pokemon like Gigalith. Of course there's a lot of shitposters around here, but those who are not but believes in this needs to get the reminder.

>>30927952
Of course. Any new pokemon or metabreaking stuff is always welcome in any game, not just these one. How many people are using mons like Muk after they were shown on a tournament? Or how many Finis are being show right now? That's the way we humans work.

But if you were referring to discussing possible viable pokemon, that's true too. The important thing is to be able to discuss them properly. If we're simplistic, both at stating why it's viable or why it's not, then we're doing short work of ourselves.

>>30922364
Aaron Zheng is not aging very well.

Isn't he like 17? Why does he look 38?

>>30928060
>Remember that before the London internationals pokemon like Pelipper and Togedemaru were considered jokes.
Bullshit. Since the moment Pelipper was revealed to have Drizzle everyone and their mom knew it was not a shitmon anymore. It's fucking Drizzle for fucks sake.

Sonic Steel? Kinda, but a bunch of people here recognized it's many positive traits and while it was not gonna take the meta by the horns it had a very recognizable niche from the get go.

There's a difference between people who literally don't know shit about competitive and people who do know about it but are close minded and willfully ignorant. That /vp/ is 90% both of those doesn't help at all either.

>>30928142
That's why we need to raise our level. From those 90%, I'm 100% sure we won't be able to ever give the shitposters a brain, or convice the close minded to discuss things outside the box.

But the people that know shit about competitive but want to learn/improve/whatever? Those are the guys I'd like to help to raise their level of discussion, since those are the guys that want to take VGC seriously. They're probably 1/3 or even less of that 90%, but I'd love them to step up and discuss, wheter they agree with me or not.

>>30928218
I understand how you feel and I even once went through that phase but talking to 100 people and only getting through to 1 got tiring after trying it again and again. It's quite easy to get disillusioned, specially here on /vp/ of all places. The only way people listen to you for better or worse is to have shit to your name, which is not a bad measure by any means to be honest, but it does get tiring nonetheless when people don't listen to you just because your e-peen is not big enough.

Does anyone know the set used for the Mimikyu in 1st place's team?

>>30928447
Funny thing is, vp is way better to discuss shit than other places since, those who put their names in front of the discussions are the ones ruining it for the sake of it. Here we're all anons, there's no e-peen unless you tweet something from here directly. Or at least I have a better experience here. Everything is more honest, also crude but I can deal with it.

Heck, do the experiment and post the exact thing we're discussing here somewhere else. People will shitpost a Parasect viability post in no time. Here we had at least three people discussing it seriously, and not all three agreed on it being viable.

And I know for a fact we get some attention from VGC players themselves, not just on these topics but also about the silly stuff. So if we do less of the silly stuff and more of the other maybe, just maybe, we could get some useful stuff from someone who stays anon.

>>30928536
he didnt bring it to a single game

>>30928684
All the imoutos faggots post here.
Wolfe's bf came here to check what we said during the UK International.

No idea who else comes here, if they do, they haven't said anything.

You do have a point, It was super horrible in NB and even now it still rings true, perhaps even more considering VGCTwitter is an ever stronger circlejerk.

Still, the little quality discussion there is gets completely drowned by the shitposting and general utter ignorance. For example, I fucking hate when there's a stream going on because all the shitters seeing the thread in the frontpage come here and contribute to absolutely nothing. It gets tiring when all you want is to have some proper talk about what's going on. The worst part is when you know the same people shitposting are people the same people you know also know their shit.

>>30922364
JUST CAUGHT my tapus, and have a lvl 77 silvally. whats the fastest way to get them all to lvl 100? idk how these vgc people do it so quick

>>30928845
They inject.

>>30928845
Injecting like anyone with half a brain does.

>>30928845
>idk how these vgc people do it so quick
They don't. They inject.

>>30928871
>>30928885
>>30928888

surely atleast someone had to play legit..

>>30928946
They all are playing legit because their Pokemon go through the hack check :^)

>>30928871
>>30928885
>>30928888
>Verlis was right all along

I thought people hated him because he liked accusing everyone of hacking? Now you're telling me everyone actually does hack and that he's right?

>>30928983
Please fuck off.

>>30928983
People hate him because he's a shit-stirring clickbaiting furfaggot who never walks the talk he gives.

Anyone with half a brain knows everyone injects and anyone with also half a brain knows an injected Pokemon gives no inherent advantage and that you'll lose like a bitch even if you inject your Pokemon if you are bad at game.

Also this>>30929024

>>30929037
>Anyone with half a brain knows everyone injects

So it's literal intellectual dishonesty when people talk shit about accusing others of hackers because they have a perfect legendary HP Fire shiny and such, since you all know they hacked anyway despite arguing they didn't.

Nice to see the true face of the community.

>>30929073
Reminder to report faggot shitposters like this guy

>>30928802
It was super horrible in NB, it's always been horrible in Smogon and it will be horrible in Trainer Tower or whatever site picks what NB left behind.

And I don't want to use my name/elo/whatever against another guy's name/elo/whatever when I'm discussing shit, hence why I like it here. Guess we agree somewhat in that.

And I agree on the quality too, but you know what? At least I get something out from here, where every other site fails spectaculary unless it's something that has been proven or it is discussed / approved by a 'distinguish' member.

And stream days are definitely the worst to discuss anything, anywhere. At least we can have some fun.
>>30928983
Everyone hates Verlis because he's an attention whore. He cheats too, even if he doesn't admit it for obvious reasons.

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>>30928845
1000 E4 Runs, make sure to boost your mons on Refresh for that exp. bonus.

You better start now

>>30928845
Game Freak put exactly zero good grinding spots in SM. There are no quick ways to legitimately raise a pokemon to level 100.

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>>30929151
>He went full retard
Is this supposed to be some post-post ironic shit or something?

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>>30928983
>I thought people hated him because he liked accusing everyone of hacking?
The point is that adults don't care what other adults do with their time. If people inject to save themselves 35 hours then who cares. It's not my problem. I can still have a fair fight with that person so I don't give a fuck.

I say this as someone who likes the breeding & hatching process and who has spent 10 hours today catching a rare pokemon and breeding 4 egg moves onto it.

>>30929242
Yeah I'm sure you can have a fair fight

Better start working on grinding that HP Ice Xurkitree to 100 today, maybe you'll get to use it in time for VGC ;^)

>>30929116
http://thegreatgastrodon.blogspot.com/2015/07/intro.html

Have you ever read what this guy wrote? It's a bit old but sadly it all still applies today. I recommend checking everything if you hae the time.

I'm glad we could agree on so many things and have a proper discussion about it of all things. It's such a rare occurrence nowadays, makes me feel kinda sad that our conversation will be over and that'll be that. W-Wanna be friends or something?

>>30929264
Funny you mention that, because I got my HP Ice xurkitree legitimately after 30 minutes of soft reset. It's pretty easy, just get your synchronize kadabra up higher than level 35 then use repel in the lush jungle, xurkitree pops right up. Beast ball catches it on the 2nd throw. Fly to daycare and check. Whole thing takes 30 seconds and I didn't have to work very hard to get it to level 100 either. Lucky Egg.

Anyway, you do realize that 100% of people who play at the level of traveling internationally to compete have their pokemon handed to them by friends, right? All of those people are very well-connected to other battlers and people in the competitive community. They don't have time to be raising a bunch of pokemon, they are focused more on battle strategies and traveling to competitions. If they didn't inject, they would just have someone passing them their Breedjects anyways, and if you cut out the hassle of egg moves, nature, and getting up to 4IVs, it takes literally 20 fucking minutes of breeding to get a legit pokemon.

It's really not hard my man. I'm a legit player telling you to shut the fuck up because it's not mine or anyone else's business what a man chooses to do with his time. It's not technically "morally right" but it is such a small "crime" that a fucking child stealing a fun-size candy from the store is a worse offense. Simply put, nobody fucking cares.

And if you want to bitch so hard and base your entire life on bitching about a non-issue in a child's game you might as well go to >>>/lgbt/ where the entire point of the board is to bitch about problems that don't actually matter to anyone.

>>30929379
where to train for lvl 100?

>>30929379
For someone who supposedly doesn't care you really do look butthurt about it.

>>30929297
Now I did, and it sadly applies to what people considers e-sports.

We have a problem as we only admit the opinions of those people who're relevant, ignoring that 'traditional' sports have a lot of people who were never good at the sport they're commentating, be it coaches, journalist or whatever. You can find examples at every sport of this.

Give me some throwaway mail or other means to contact you and you'll have a new friend. Was kinda expecting to read a hold hands though :^)

>>30929483
use rare kitchen 5 star and some of the rare candies that you get in the game, go to elite 4. Hold lucky egg. That's pretty much it. It takes a little while but I just watch shows while leveling. Who cares lol. It's relaxing to me.

Plus you only have to do it about 4 times. You pick your Tapu for your team and then your UB. That's pretty much all you need to play competitively. And Pyritie will give you a cloned legitimate Tapu or UB that is already EV trained, level 100.

>>30929541
so what does the kitchen even do if youre goin to the e4

>>30929297
>http://thegreatgastrodon.blogspot.cl/2015/07/improving-nb-forums-top-players-please.html

If one thing I got from looking a little through this site is that Wolfe (and probably many others) is a selfish little bitch.

>>30929526
Yes, because having a post over 3 sentences means I care so much about what I said I didn't care about, right?

I didn't contradict myself at all. Try reading comprehension. I don't care about simple injectors doing their thing.

What I do care a lot about, enough to write multiple paragraphs, is the fact that fucking shit stains like you ruin every thread on this board by repeatedly shitposting about "lol injection debate", as if the 5 fucking topics you open every day on the front page isn't enough to contain this fucking shit. Just let bygones be bygones and accept that people have different opinions, or at the very least stop spreading your malice into every god damn thread on this fucking board. I am sick of reading this retarded shit

>>30929590
I don't have time to explain it. Just read how the rare kitchen works.

>>30929602
Honestly, I don't blame them, while it may sound selfish of them there's actually some logic to it. Why should I put effort for a community who doesn't appreciate the effort? It's very very easy to get discouraged if you don't feel your effort is being rewarded one way or another. There's really nothing wrong with wanting to focus on your own success rather than contributing to the community as a whole. People have different priorities after all.

Even now all that applies true. Do you think that they truly upload the good stuff on their youtube channels? Heck no. You can obviously tell that they are just saying the most generic possible drivel and barely touching the surface of the matter in discussion but your average person is too blinded by their fame to notice it so they follow what they say like lemmings without any critical thought behind it, they only follow it because it's what the top player said, not the logic behind why it's being said.

>>30929538
P-Please be gentle.
[email protected]

>>30929763
>There's really nothing wrong with wanting to focus on your own success rather than contributing to the community as a whole. People have different priorities after all.

Ye, that's understandable but it's kind of lame from many top players to just take that posture. Pokemon as a competitive game is quite the joke but it has room to improve and players of great caliber have the power to change it for the better. The fact that they just prefer to stay in their own bubble because they are comfortable with their e-peens or fear the illuminati stealing their spreads shows little love for the game as something that goes beyond themselves.

The general community and interest in the game feel pretty weak nowadays but whatever we just want to win rite?

>But would we get to meet our friends if we we didn't do well? Think of a big name in the community and try and find one that doesn't have a big placement that brought them into the community. There aren't many. It's rare that people don't perform exceptionally well at events and still manage to get into the community. It's an unspoken right of passage, you have to perform well to hang with the big kids. Denying this is naive.

>So what does that mean for the people who don't do well? Well, for the most part they get ignored. Their forum posts have less merit, their articles have next to no merit, and people pass up on them. They don't make the friends that we all cherish, and there isn't anything keeping them in the game. They tried their hand, they didn't succeed, and now they move on.

This guy articles are pretty good desu

>>30930268
No wonder the community is so circlejerky, and no wonder Pokemon doesn't grow as a competitive game.

If anything Showdown is getting more popular, but the in-cart official stuff is very stale when you consider how much Pokemon is growing as a whole.

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>>30928125
He's 19, and yeah he's in a weird spot right now. He was a cute kid but as he grew his face didn't adapt well.

Wolfey on the other hand grew up very nicely. Pic related was when he was 15.

Don't die you faggot thread

>>30930268
I don't get the problem. People who are bad drop out. People who aren't stay.

>>30932485
Being bad isn't an inherent quality. Everyone was bad at some point

>>30932485
It's about a circlejerk problem basically.

That's in a sense what makes 4chan a pretty good place to hang out (except for the retards and faggots who came from their safespaces and try to modify the boards culture with their normie bullshit).

By being anonymous your posts supposedly have the same weight as any other person. What will make your posts interesting to read is either the argument behind or how you explain.

That's why you should ignore every single tripcode user unless they do help the community with info, resources and stuff.

>>30932485
But if you can't get into the community then it's hard to improve, and this keeps new players away from the scene in general.

>>30934054
Yes, you don't need anybody. In fact, you don't need us either. You should go and type your thoughts in word and then read them to yourself instead of bothering with the plebs here

>>30930268
Who?

>NB still nuked
Fucking kek.

>>30932577
>>30932581
Point is I'm not going to take super seriously the report team of a dude who lost on the first day.
Same reason I don't really take seriously any competitive advice from /vp/ since 90% of the people here are hipster memeshitters.

You can say what you want about making friends etc of course, but don't pretend your words of advice on teambuilding should have the same weight of a world champion.

Hi, can anyone rate my team? Currently hanging around in scrub ass 1300s on showdown

http://pastebin.com/bapDyvPu

What most of these top players don't seem to realize is that they're not top players due to their teambuilding skills, they're top players due to their decision making. Heck, they even thank others on (tournament)stream for building their team and coming up with move sets and ev spreads! Asking for explanations on why those moves were chosen is probably not the most educational since they were handed to them. And once you know the moves/spreads you can just do a few quick damage calcs on your own to identify the threats. Although it does help if they would point out one or two crucial counters they want to hit.

So them not deciding to discuss or share their move sets and spreads is an ignorant thing that stifles the development of the meta. I applaud Gavin for sharing his San Jose team in full detail. This gives us something to discuss and develop the meta with which also benefits the top players, possibly them even the most.

>>30930669
I miss Nick McCord

>>30934638
4 SpD on Gyara, Lele, and Weavile -> 4 HP since they have SpD>Def so Download won't do SpA anyway

I'm not sure if 4 HP Lele survives -1 Club 252+ Marowak-A Shadow Bone, if it doesn't do either the minimum investment to survive it (take out EVs from Spe) or just go 252 HP since your team can handle Tapus not named Koko very well

Despite Cloud Nine, Drampa still doesn't handle weather well, and neither does the rest of your team. Consider Gigalith, or a Pelipper of your own. The former will also drastically improve your TR matchup, seeing as you have no 100% method of dealing with it. Brick Break -> Taunt/Night Slash/Throat Chop/Taunt to deal with TR, too. Assurance pairs nicely with your Pory-Z but it's the only thing on your team that outspeeds Weavile. Consider replacing it altogether with bulky Darkinium Z Krookodile, switching Lele's crystal to Psychic Seed, they make an excellent lead. Your team also loses to Spiky Shield Smeargle Eevee teams. Consider Roar over Taunt on Gyarados, it also helps with TR 100% instead of relying on your opponent not running Mental Herb.

>>30934166
at this point i'm pretty sure they don't care about bringing it back

>>30922623
His friend group is dwindling.

>>30922934
Real talk, it kind of sucks being 24 y/o, still in college and working part time jobs. I can't go to many vidya tournaments like these because I'm often busy working or with school. Yet the day I'll be done with school and have a full time M/F job, I wonder if I'll still be going to these, and if I am would it look weird...
Is this something I'm supposed to grow out of, or is it publicly acceptable for full grown adults to go to video game tournaments in this day and age?

>>30923168
>>30923214
>>30923349
Ever since fairies got introduced, they really need some sort of type buff because, as a type alone, it's pretty ass. This gen having more bugs did something for them, but still is underpowered.

>>30926567
Why such a high percentage for AMarrowak Detect? Are there any Imprisoners worth noting?

>>30935920
Bug should be SE against fairy desu

>>30935959
Detect isn't legal on Marowak yet so showdown must have mistakenly allowed it for a limited time. Generally people will still use Detect even if Imprisoners are unlikely

Fill in the blank:
>Pyukumuku is _____.

>>30936098
quite useful since nobody uses taunt anymore

>>30936098
not a poison type

Can we all agree that every top VGC player is a raging faggot?

>>30935903
There was someone who looked like fucking 50 due to his white hair and being overweight, but people would support and cheer for him. You'll be fine.

In case you're curious, the guy was actually around 25-30. Quite shocking, but I guess that's what happens when you have bad habits.

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>>30936911
specially the screen peeking spaniards

>>30937160
>gets caught screenpeeking
>doesnt get banned
It's like Ray Rizzo all over again

>>30937160
When will Spain get bombed? We need a better world.

I asked in the showdown VGC group and got no answer, so I'll ask here.
Why is rain so underwhelming this gen? Pelipper is a great mon. I just can't make it work.

>>30937550
The best legal Swift Swimmer is Golduck which is pretty bad compared to Kingdra and Ludicolo

Pelipper is fine, I think most people make it offensive with a sash on it so that if it goes down at least it can get a strong hit off or set up Tailwind

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>>30937593
I miss him so much

>>30937593
I use max spdef max HP with sitrus(aguav). It's a bulky mom that can spread hurricane and scald burns. Should I change it?

>>30937841
Politoed is generally better as a defensive rain setter, Pelipper is better used on heavy aggro rain.

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>They scald my Sharpedo
>burns him
>hit them with a dark pulse
Special Sharpedo is underrated.

>>30937999
>implying sharpedo lives a scald

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What is a strategy to beat defensive bulky teams, such as teams that provide rain and lightning rod support for Celesteela?

I am trying to run a high tempo, high offense team and I am losing to pace-setting pokemon such as Aurora Veil Ninetales. One of the only solutions I can think of is to Taunt or to boost. I would like to boost up and destroy everything, but it doesn't seem like boosting is that viable in VGC. I'm new to this format though so I don't know.

>>30938067
What's the suprise? It's not like it's PKyogre's scald we're talking about here.
>>30938049
>speed boost
Good offenses
>good coverage
He's not bad. Not flawless, but not bad.

>>30938103
Why not try a Gigalyth sand team? ADugtrio and Garchomp work quite well in this situation, and Oranguru also works with telepathy for those earthquakes.

>>30938103
Dragon dance gyarados with waterium is a solid boosting mon, haven't seen too many others. Taunt is super helpful against Celesteela in particular since you can stop the leech seed and wear it down even with neutral hits. Toxic is great for wearing down most other fat mons. Or you can run sheer cold and pray.

>>30938141
None of that really helps against Celesteela....

>>30938185
Rock slide spam on her with Dugtrio and Garchomp. Bring your own Celesteela with Flamethrower.

>>30938103
Boosting has been historically hard to pull off in any VGC format. Everyone can and will double up if you're not careful with those.

That said, Gyarados seems to be the pokémon you would enjoy. It's one of the few pokemon that is able to boost without much hindrance and has access to both Intimidate and Taunt, although the later is something you should consider only if it's extremely needed.

Other than that, sounds like you need a pivot to help against those cases. Mons like Togedemaru who can run Encore and disrupt their stalling process while giving you time to pull off your stuff.

>>30926770
>Clefable with eject button
With follow me, I can easily see how it would work, but what does it set you up into?

Best trick room mons, besides the obvious oranguru and torkoal?

>>30938141
But pelipper and politoed have a favorable matchup against all the other weather setters. If you choose to do this strategy you are already at a disadvantage against the thing you are meant to counter.

>>30938283
>Rock slide spam on her with Dugtrio and Garchomp
Rock Slide from Dugtrio does fuckall to her, even under sand. I say this as someone who played the shit out of a sand team with Dugtrio. Even under sand Dugtrio STILL doesn't hit as hard as Excadrill, just slightly less, but still doesn't reach Excadrill level.

Seriously, the thing I hate the most of this format is how butchered weather is. There's setters but pretty much zero half-decent abusers. Fuck you Gamefreak.

>>30938496
How did you deal with the double ground and water weakness while running dugtrio + gigalith? That is the main problem I am experiencing

>>30938429
Pelipper is also frail as fuck. Both are also faster than Gigalyth, so you just have to play smart to win the weather war. But as for fighting either directly, well that's why you'd have your supporting cast for. I'd imagine Bulu would be a good compliment to the team.

>>30926567
>>30926625
>>30926770
>>30926879
> ProfShroomish
Who is he?

>>30926567
>>30926625
>>30926770
>>30926879
> ProfShroomish
Who is he?

>>30938527
Fini because fuck burns and Parasect because Dugtrio is a frail piece of shit and redirection helps even if Parasect is not exactly super bulky either

inb4 some faggot pointing the obvious hurr you can't spore with Finu durr

>>30938590
>>30938597
He's got his twitter right there bub. Why don't you check it out for yourself?

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What would be a way to deal with Marowak if I am running both Sun and Grassy Terrain on my team? I can't go with Water because of the Sun, and I can't go with Earthquake because of the Grassy Terrain.

I would add Brown Horse to use High Horsepower but I am concerned that my team is becoming too slow. I want fast solutions. The only thing I can think of is Gengar but that seems iffy because he is so frail that he can't really switch in to deal with the marowak.

Thanks for answering my question

>>30938625
Do you have anyone who can get Knock off?

>>30938625
Give something Groundium-Z.
Stone Edge on Bulu. Or rock in general.
Hit him hard with a nuke like Z-Mence.
Garfield with Foul Play.

>>30938283
>rock slide spam
>81% chance to connect both
>27% chance to connect one and flinch
>24.3% chance to connect both and flinch one
>7.29% chance to connect and flinch both
Is this what you call a solution? A non-STAB 56 BP move, that at best is 73 BP but requires a switch? So this is the average IQ of /vp/?

>>30938597
a bad teambuilder and massive faggot

>>30938625
>>30938668
Oh, also, Krookodile. Crunch his gay ass while intimidating it too. You can even give it the groundium so that you can play over your own terrain.

>>30938643
You mean one of the 2 pokemon that can learn that move in the whole format? No I don't have that.

>>30938668
>Garfield with Foul Play.
oh Nice I never thought of that counter. Garfield does really well against marowak.

>>30938721
What else besides Muk gets knock off?

>>30938778
Hariyama
Doesn't Weavile as well?

>>30938789
TUTOR
U
T
O
R

>>30938789
>Doesn't Weavile as well?
lad..

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does someone know when it's the next streamed event?

doesn't matter if it's in another language or if it's not official.

>>30938804
>>30938858
my mistake. It seems like the kind of Pokemon that would naturally learn it, you know?

>>30938898
>It seems like the kind of Pokemon that would naturally learn it, you know?
That's Gamefreak for you.

>>30938884
And some faggot up there was saying Garchomp was not good anymore. 4 generations and he's still the king.

>>30938924
>And some faggot up there was saying Garchomp was not good anymore. 4 generations and he's still the king.
you do know that's just usage statistics from the shitty no-rules in-game tournament that was just held by gamefreak right? the tournament where lunala was allowed?
I mean by your logic golisopod is better than tapu bulu and that's clearly not the case.

>>30939014
>>30939014
>the tournament where lunala was allowed?
So are you saying Garchomp is shit because it managed to get more usage than a cover legend? Okay then.

>>30939045
... No, I explicitly just told you that you can't derive any meaning from the shitty in-game tournament where people were just bringing their in-game teams and battling each other for the free BP without any serious intention of battling. Therefore, you can't draw any conclusions about competitive viability based on those shitty statistics. Therefore, I'm not saying anything about Garchomp's viability compared to Lunala's.

Try some fucking reading comprehension. Also, if you honestly fucking believe that these stupid statistics proves that Garchomp is better than fucking Lunala, you're a god damn retard. You really think Garchomp is better than Lunala? Get fucking real, man.

>>30939045
Not him but

quality = usage
usage =! quality

How hard is it to understand this

>>30938590
>>30938597
Attention whore faggot. Literally takes info from other people, put it into a shitty image with a gradient, claims it's his and begs for retweets. He's also a douchebag with people.

what is the current best milotic set for vgc?

>>30939330
not using it

>>30939330
I'm sure you're prepared to hear that there is no "best" set, but there's this >>30926567

http://pastebin.com/wY4rsrLV

RMT. I just started and I'm having some success with it on battlespot, but I feel like the team could be a lot better.

Also karma's a bitch: MZRW-WWWW-WWW3-AXJ7

>>30940048
I think you need more physical attackers and an out to trick room teams.

>>30940048
For Krookodile I actually suggest considering Assurance the extra power is really nice and lets you net some nifty damage. I think it even solidly 2HKO's most Celesteela builds.

>>30940304
Good points, what do you recommend? Dark Z Krooko deals with Oranguru and I could be adding a bulky Gyarados with taunt for P2 with a Muk or a Marowak instead of Milotic and Arcanine.

>>30940534
I'll test that. It seems to have some good synergy with Discharge.

>>30940048
Groundium is very useful since it turns Eartquake into a single-target attack so you don't have to worry about hitting your ally.

>>30940534
How does it work in a damage calculator? Double the BP? Any source only mentions "deals double damage". Is there even any difference from doubling the BP and doubling the final damage?

What pokemon shits on lele? I'm getting real sick of this little shits psychics.

>>30940697
I'm pretty sure it doubles the base power.
The only difference between doubling the power and doubling the damage is in rounding errors.

>>30940703
Kartana?

what is the common used set for Milotic nowadays?

>>30940703
Ghostium Z Mimikyu

>>30940703
Metagross

>>30941066
Remember to pack bullet punch :^)

>>30941133
>Metagross can only use Bullet Punch
Once the field is off, sure. On the meantime I'll force you to switch or eat a Meteor.
>inb4 Protect
Like 80% of Lele run choice items.

>>30941186
Nah, just a joke.
It happened a few days ago in showderp.

I don't pack bullet punch because I prefer to carry 4 differently typed moves.

>>30941228
That's good then.

I do pack it since I go Assault Vest and priority is always handy. But lel showderp, do they do some doubles/vgc stuff from time to time?

Hey guys, I think I'm ready to finally start playing VGC. Is there an easy-to-use team for beginners like me? I want to try to get as much information about the meta as possible, and I don't feel confident enough to build a team myself.

>>30941268
Not in a while.
A shame, really.

>>30940697
Yes just double the BP.

It's normally a 60BP Dark type attack but if your opponent has taken any damage before you attack it just changes into a 120BP Dark type attack. Really quite good in Doubles when you consider a simple Discharge/Rock Slide etc. from a faster user would give you a free 180BP move.

>>30941311
There isn't a real cookie cutter 'standard' team at the moment yet, it's still pretty much a free meta. So you could make the dumbest ass team possible, pastebin and dump it here and someone can probably give advice.

>>30940703
Metagross, Kartana, A-Muk

>>30941311
copy sekiam's team
and then peek some screens

that's how you become a champ

>>30942803
Next tournament I'm adding a 'box' to surround my lower screen. I'll also bring my old 3ds since it's the tiniest screen possible. Hope I face him again in Melbourne.

>>30942803
Was Sekiam the spic that flung literal shit at a hotel years ago, or the one that wears a straw hat?

>>30944635
that was ruben, who I hear is a male stripper nowadays

>>30944635
if by strawhat you mean that shit hair, yes, the european champion

ruben (the shit-thrower) is retired

>>30944685
Yes. facebook com/energyman is his page

>>30944715
>Retired
He got permanently banned from all Pokémon events and also Nugget Bridge.

>>30944635
Even latinos are more civilized than the spaniards. Someone remove spain already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkwAYPyokMQ

:^)

http://pastebin.com/0uB9EHah
Nearing 1500 on showdown with this, and want to get some opinions before I play it on cart
I would appreciate any suggestions to replace scarf mence, I almost never bring it but haven't found anything to swap it with.

>>30945644
What does that Gastrodon set do?

>>30945644
>I would appreciate any suggestions to replace scarf mence, I almost never bring it but haven't found anything to swap it with.

Maybe try Goodra? Not sure if you want to replace mence with something fast or something bulky. Also, Stomping Tantrum is an interesting choice for Marowak. Is there any specific reasoning for it?

is timid necessary for swift swim golduck? or am i outspeeding everything with modest?

just won a 65 turn battle
my celesteela vs a milotic

>>30946348
Did they run out of time, or just forfeit?

>>30946608
he run out of time

>>30945728
Nothing in particular, I took the set from the last vgc analysis set from smogon.

>>30945785
I like the goodra suggestion. I've been considering that magneton set that's been posted here on occasion too, since I usually have grassy terrain up
Stomping Tantrum doesn't miss, and I think the only OHKO you miss out on is arcanine (this is assuming you aren't at -1 from the intimidate)

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What's the best weather right now?

>>30946798
Rain>Hail=Sand>Sun

>>30946889
>Hail
"A-Ninetales" is good, not Hail.

>>30946953
Gigalith is good, not Sand.
Torkoal is good, not Sun.

:^)

Could I get some critique on my team?

Not overly attached to Trevenant, Gastrodon, or kartana

>>30935829

that tends to happen when you get older

>>30946976
Stop being a smartass. You know I'm talking about weather as a team archetype.

>>30946990
Invisible/10

>>30946990
Help I'm stupid
http://pastebin.com/yqMJPvZm

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>>30947040
>A-Exeggutor
>Flamethrower
WHAT

>>30947010
The same applies.

Ninetales barely has any companions, same with Gigalith. But at least the rock guy has a lot of steel/ground types in the meta so you can build a team that doesn't take chip damage every turn.

Torkoal started strong, but it is too cheesy right now. Add that Rain is undoubtly the strongest of the 4 and Sun is in a pretty bad state.

There, an opinion.

>>30935903
>Is this something I'm supposed to grow out of, or is it publicly acceptable for full grown adults to go to video game tournaments in this day and age?
I've been to several irl tournament and there are plenty of adults who show up

If you feel too embarrassed to play the games themselves, become a judge - most of them are parents and other older people

I need help finding a pokemon to make up for my team's coverage. It's my first team in this gen and im trying to figure out a sixth that can cover it's weaknesses. I'm currently using Oricoro (Pom-Pom), Decidueye, Tapu Lele, Primarina and Alohan Muk. I don't know if I should be more worried about Poison, Ice or Ghost types or get something else to beat a common threat.

>>30947065
I was trying find a coverage move and chose it

>>30947229
You need another bulky mon, it looks quite fragile desu. Guess Arcanine can fill that spot since it can be bulky and it will add Intimidate to your team, but I think you need a shake or two there.

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Looking for some input on my team. Been having consistent wins running mega gyarados/marowak/celesteela/garchomp, but I have no idea what else to run. I was thinking maybe clefable for follow me shenanigans while chomp sets up?

>>30948102
Post sets
also
>megas
>vgc
???

>>30948102
>>30948133

Brainfart, no idea why I said mega gyara

>Garchomp
@life orb
rough skin
jolly
252 spe/252 atk/4 def
dragon claw/earthquake/rock slide/swords dance

>celesteela
@leftovers
beast boost
impish
252 hp/252 def
heavy slam/toxic/leech seed/protect

>gyarados
@normalium z
intimidate
adamant
252 atk/252 spe
waterfall/earthquake/ice fang/splash

>>30948220

Fuck. I'm tired, forgot marowak but it's the standard lightningrod set

>>30948248
Maybe you need to rest anon. I suggest your pillow to use Follow Me so you can Rest as soon as you Body Slam your bed.

How's that set?

>>30947040
>>30946990
Plz respond

>>30948603
You might want to explain why did you pick Machoke and Exeggutor.

You should fit Ice beam/Scald on that Gastrodon and maybe Horn Leech for Trevenant depending on what you want it to do.

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You have 10 seconds why you aren't using A-Persian on your team right now

>>30949223
Parting shot is banned.

>>30935903

most of the FGC's top players are over 30

it's never been publicly acceptable but nobody really gives a shit

>>30949324
However, even if both are for manchildren Pokemon is much lower on the for kids scale than Smash or Street Fighter so an adult playing it, competitively no less, is seen much worse, specially with the child-friendly image TCPi and Nintendo are so obsessed with preserving.

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>>30949363

problem solved

>>30949425
I wonder if they'd allow you to play like that.

>>30948220
>no Groundium on archomp
>Swords Dance

Huh?

>>30935903
>>30949363
In the TCG, which is even less acceptable, Jason Klaczynski is 31.

Lanturn is one of my favorite pokemon and I remember early in the meta when it was semi-popular on Showdown.
Is there any use for it now or should I disregard it?

>>30950875
It's a shittier Rotom-W.

Considering half the meta is shitter [insert actually good pokemon but not available for use] Pokemon I'd say you are good to go.

>>30947010
>weather as a team archetype.
Will never be good.
Also sand is more useful in general than rain, as pretty much always

>>30953220
>Also sand is more useful in general than rain
Lol no it's not.

Rain: Thunder spam Koko, Pelipper hurricane, boosted Water moves, reduce Fire damage for Celesteela

Sand: residual damage and.. that's it.

>>30953293
dont pretend the sp def boost from sand, sand rush, and sand force dont exist

>>30953293
Residual damage is huge, denying the more immediatly offensive weathers all their benefits is also.

>>30953293
The difference is that gigalith is far better than pelipper.

>>30953328
Yeah what type a great rock types are there in this metagame? So many to choose from.

And how about all those great Sand Rush users? Sure is great to set up an easy 4-0 sweep with that crispy sick Stoutland!

up

I want to make a team based on turtonator. I've set up a set that lets me take a bonemerang from marowak and OHKO with the Z move. So far I'm thinking it'd require trick room, and then gyrados/clefairy/tapu bulu. I'm not at all sure how I want to proceed further, but I'd like everything to be bulky, anyone have any ideas? I like the idea of trevanent as well, z-forest curse synching with flamethrowers and shell traps from turtonator seems like fun gimmicky bullshit, but obviously with bulu and trev I'd be really weak to the previously mentioned marowak, so again, any ideas?

>enosh shachar thinks that fini is best tapu
Is he right?

>>30957119
What's his reasoning?

>>30957218
I don't know, he just offhandedly mentioned it on twitter.
Also the smogon VGC guy apparently thinks Koko is an outright shitmon.

I have a quick question. How useful would Fini be with Guardian of Alola/Nature's Madness? Full bulk.

Does GoA ignore Protect?

>>30958490
Yeah, it ignores protect.

Vanilluxe blizzard OHKOs Kartana. Vanilluxe proven to be good?

>>30958952
Vanilluxe dies if Kartana hits it first. Which it will unless it's running scarf.

>>30958997
And there's not much reason to run scarf Vanilluxe over Specs Ninetales

>>30958952
Forgot to add, is it a guaranteed kill on even AV variants?

>>30956778
Remove Clefairy and add Mence, anytime Marowak scares you with bonemerang and flareblit you bring it in.

Having a fast mon is also good to play outside TR, but if you're enough of a madman you could try running a slow bulky mence.

>>30949223
I did until they banned parting shot, great support mon.

>>30957119
Sejun said it's really good too and he got to #1 on battle spot with it

>>30958490
It does but does reduced damage

>>30959244
Hibiki fought him and it looks he's using specs Fini

>>30957280
>Smogon

Well of course.

Scarf vanilluxe is better than alolan ninetails?

>>30949223
I am. I have two actually, one with Parting Shot and one for use now.
They really need to fix that bug though. I won a VGC game on Showdown when it was down to 1v1 by just stalling with Protect and Parting Shot thanks to Fur Coat.

>>30960347
no, Aurora Veil is too good and Vanilluxe has nothing really going for it

>>30960505
But scarf vanilluxe ohkos kartana

Should I build around Nihilego or Tapu Fini?

How are people building A-Persian? I was thinking a fake out set but it seems like that would only be good on a TR team and at that point Hariyama outclasses it

>>30960966
>that would only be good on a TR team
............What? Why?

>>30960859
Fini. Nihilego is kinda splashable, but fini you need to build around more carefully.

>>30960816
That's not a huge accomplishment. There was an electric mon (forgot if Koko or Xurkitree) that could OHKO it with HP Ice.

If you Z-move a priority move like Shadow Sneak, it loses its priority right? I don't know why I don't know this yet

>>30961258
yes that is correct sir :)

Would Bewear work as a tech choice on a rain team?

>>30948737
Machoke is there ecuase I wanted a bulky fighting type the deal with ice moves. Exeggutor loves Trick Room and Rototiller. I'm thinking of making exeggutor mixed.

>>30957119
>>30957218
It's a lot better than people were giving it credit for last week. Calm mind does well against rain teams and it's the only tapu that doesn't get ass-raped by marowak.

>>30957119
It's a good Pokémon and probably got a lot less attention than it deserves, best tapu might be an exaggeration though.

Making a great team with a Pokémon doesn't always mean the Pokémon is great.

I'm sure he's better than me though

>>30962107
>Bulky fighting type to deal with Ice moves
Hariyama has thick fat, 144 base HP and 120 base Attack.
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Hariyama: 39-46 (15.5 - 18.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after hail damage
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hariyama: 180-212 (71.7 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Hariyama: 52-63 (20.7 - 25%) -- Miniscule chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola: 135-160 (90.6 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

I really wouldn't say Ice types are common enough to need a specific counter though, and if they were, something weak to fairy probably wouldn't be the play.

>>30962014
Maybe? I've never played against it but its stats look good and it's a bitch in-game

Is Mimikyu only really useful on a trick room team as a way to counter lele?

>>30962580
No, it's done great with things like Z-Curse, Z-Destiny bond or just an annoying attacker/WoWer/Taunter

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>tfw Finifag since day one and people are finally seeing the light
Next stop: WORLDS

>>30962891
How have you been using it? I tried out swagger + metagross, but it never worked out well.

How bad is it to run two of the same type Pokémon on a team?

>>30962955
I tried that at first too, I legit used once in about 100 battles. Trust me, I kept count. It's one of those gimmicks that sound good on paper but are terrible on practice.

Right now I'm running her with Specs. Before that I was using Waterium + Calm Mind.

>>30962987
As long as they don't have similar roles, generally it shouldn't be bad

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>>30962987
Shit.
This is a ranking of the worst players in the world.
First place has two ground types.
Second place has two ground types
Third place has two water types
Fifth place has two electric types
Seventh place has two fairy types and two water types (extra shit)
Eighth place has two psychic types.

>>30963020
Yeah, I never used it either. I was usually better off attacking. Gonna try out a CM set with a team very similar to Enosh's team. I've thought about having garchomp on the team. Of course misty terrain reduces dragon claw, but there could be some interesting plays against salamence, who wouldn't be affected by the terrain, but garchomp would take less in return.

Not that salamence is much of a problem, and that's probably way too situational anyway.

>>30963123
Honestly, I've found Poison Jab or Sub to be more useful than Dragon Claw on Garchomp.
Dragon Claw just doesn't hit anything hard other than Goodra and Salamence, who I'm pretty sure beat it one on one anyway.

>All these Mimikyus in Showdown lately
They do fuckall but set-up TR and die but goddamn if they aren't annoying.

>>30963123
The best part about Sub CM Fini is all those asshole Gastrodons who think they can cockblock you and you set CM on their faces, they can't Toxic you and can't break your sub after you get under it and then you CM even harder and finish it by Moonblasting it's filthy slimy slug pussy. I fucking hate Gastrodon so much.

I'd take Krookodile over Garchomp if you are using Fini desu. She appreciates the Intimidate and she doesn't hinder one of the Krokodile stabs too. I miss Knock Off a fuckton though.

>>30963071
Dat golduck though

>>30963518
Golduck is quite popular actually.
Cybertron has been running it loads, it's the best Swift Swimmer with Ludicolo and Kingdra banned. Drizzle+Swift Swim is always powerful, even with just a Golduck.

>>30963071
fuck off

>>30963553
Im actually trying out a hp 252 sp att 252 4 def set with politoed as a teammate. It's going pretty well.

>>30963659
Yeah, Rain-boosted Hydro Vortex is an absolute nuke too.

How about Nihilego Fini Marowak Krook as a core?

>>30963750
i like nihilego+fini but
>misty terrain+moves that may poison the enemy

>>30963750
Explain your reasoning

>>30963750
I don't like krookodile because it doesn't get the kills that it should. IF you're okay with a weakling then go for it but I also don't understand how you are going to EQ when 2 of those are weak to ground.

>>30964053
>Using Nihilego to poison shit
Do you also use Gengar as a wall?

>>30964055
>I don't like krookodile because it doesn't get the kills that it should.
This is the most common mistake people do. Trying to use Krookodile as a Garchomp with Intimidate. You are supposed to use it more like Arcanine.

>>30964070
>moves that MAY poison the enemy
I was just saying that never poisoning is a bit of a downside when using sludge bomb

>>30964084
Except Arcanine is powerful as fuck and can secure clean KOs on fire-weak pokemon.

Krookodile misses KOs on shit that is weak to ground. He's that weak.

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>>30964146
>Except Arcanine is powerful as fuck
>Arcanine
>110 atk and 100 sp atk

>Krookodile
>117 atk

???

>>30964055
Because I want something with intimidate/ground coverage and misty terrain means I shouldn't use Salamence or garchomp.

>>30964204
Arcanine has real moves and real coverage, not piddly shit or moves that get spread-damaged out. It's not all about base stats. Why do you think Torkoal is powerful? Because of his base 85 SpA, or because of his 150 BP move?

Having Flare Blitz makes all the difference

>>30964234
>or moves that get spread-damaged out. It's not all about base stats
Ding ding ding.

Was it that hard to explain why Krookodile doesn't get KOs like Arcanine does towards weak targets? Why didn't you do so from the beginning instead of going lol krookodile is shit because it doesn't kill dialga with earth power xDddddd?

We can migrate now
>>30964296
>>30964296
>>30964296
>>30964296

>>30964301
so after all that you admit I'm right.

congratz you're a fuck-o