/dsg/ - Demon's/Dark Souls General

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This thread is now blessed by Gravelord Nito and the Pardoners of Velka.

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a being, presumably a serpent, visited the heavenly daughter Gertrude as an angel and taught her divine pillars of light, which became the foundation of the angelic religion within the kingdom. this religion led to the coup within the kingdom that culminated in the prince refusing to link the flame.

divine "angel" motif can be found from:

1. statue of primordial serpent
2. Gertrude cage
3. lothric boss room
4. winged knights (including painting)
5. oceiros' wings
6. divine pillar of light effect
7. rosaria man-grub divine magic & effect
8. ringed city angel magic & effect

there is a very secure link between the "divine" religion and the way of white, thanks to rosaria's fingers.

the founder of rosaria's fingers was klimt, an archdeacon of the cathedral of the deep. Klimt found rosaria, and chose to worship her as a goddess, relinquishing his saint's bident and making his sacred seal the symbol of his covenant. rosaria's maggots, as a result, wield staves bearing his sacred seal and cast divine magic depicting the saint's bident.

now why is an archdeacon of the cathedral of the deep using a saint's bident, and teaching divine magic? It goes back to the fact that Aldrich was originally a cleric, of the way of white. He developed a penchant for devouring people, which led to a religious following that splintered into its own cult, culminating with the cathedral of the deep. the cathedral is a perversion of the way of white, using their religious artifacts and caste (Klimt), and embracing sorcery over miracles (Archdeacon McDonnell). this all led to the divine bident magic that klimt gave to the man-grubs.

from here all we have to do is compare the angelic motif of the way of white man-grub magic, the serpent divine miracle, and the angels of the dreg heap. they are the same.

the way of white is, in some way, tied to the primordial serpents, and the angelic, curse-inflicting beings protecting the pilgrim abominations.

Should I bother with pyro in 3 if I dont want to go full caster?

does anyone still use cheat engine for ds1?

im trying to respec but CE just freezes whenever I change one of my stats, everything else i tried like no fall damage etc seems to work fine

is it still compatible since they did the steam update thing?

Making a compilation of angel stuff. Anything not so obvious I should include?

>>170454641

in fact, the man-grubs created by rosaria may actually be the same ones that pupate and turn into pilgrim/angel butterflies, which would be why the deep worshipers would choose to imprison her within their cathedral

>>170454845
>>170454641

rosaria's fingers ties the angels somewhat directly into the way of white

>>170454660
Yeah, chaos and dark are strong and there's loads of fire weapons. I have a pyro that just carries warmth around and has no other spells because I suck at casting, but the weapons are great. Also this game is even more fire-based than the others lore-wise so I dunno, it just feels right. Like being a Nord in Skyrim

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>wakes up
>realizes that nobody cleaned her room while she was sleeping
How mad will she be ?

>>170455190
It's not so much dirty as overgrown. I'd imagine she's still being protected as well.

Int/faith scaling Velka's rapier when?

>>170454641

Did anyone check what type of damage Divine Pillars and other light spells of the sort do?

>>170455634

miracles all do physical damage

for the record, dark magic did physical damage in dark souls 1

>>170455190

Wait a fucking second...

It's it me or it's the moss actually growing from the ends of her hair?

>>170455768

Would also explain why Pillars tosses your ass.

>>170455634
Pillars does physical damage, but then so does Lothric's WA, blessed weapon and WoG.

Physical damage just seems to be a general miracle thing and not directly tied to angels. For the record, Lothric's white magic in the bossfight does some form of elemental damage and chips through 100% physical defense shields.

>>170455019
What are some of the better pyro weapons? Onyx Blade seems obvious, are there any others?
If you're focusing on leveling pyro stats, is the chaos infusion ever helpful?

>Killing the gimmick dragon with crystal soul spears

I think I've found my favorite new thing to do as a sunbro

>>170455768
Dark magic did pure magic damage in DaS1, it just had some weird scaling interaction via the manus catalyst.

>>170456163
onyx blade, chaos thrall axe (for minimum stat requirement), witch locks (lovely range and cant be parried) and gargoyle flame spear

thats it

>>170456062
lohric's wa and blessed weappon are angelic faith, wog is way of white. >>170454641's point is that they're linked

>>170454845
Darklurker and the dragon chime you find in the abyss

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>>170456175
>>170455768
>Dark sorceries deal physical damage in addition to magic damage, and deal more damage to stamina and poise than standard sorceries.

>>170456163
chaos longsword

>>170456297
Lothric's sword and BW are related to the kingdom's main religion, the one opposed to angels.

WoG long-predates the angelic faith and has dealt a different damage type in all 3 games.

Morne's WA also deals pure physical damage and comes from a sect of WoW that openly disavows Lloyd

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Who up?
anor londo bonfire
pass: dsg
We're running past the silver knights.

>Have no shield
>Have a spear, used two-handed or one-handed with a caestus for parrying
>Poke enemies and outrange them like you are supposed to with a spear
>Parry predictable shots
>Dodge predictable but hard to parry shots, or just dodge to reposition
>PVP a whole bunch today
>Get invited to group "You play like a faggot turtle"
I lol'd. I guess I'm supposed to just stand there or walk into the R1 spam

>>170454641
>a being, presumably a serpent
God, not this nonsense again

>>170456062

it's not the damage type that's important, divine weapons did magic in DaS1 and WotG did lightning in 2, it's moreso that there is a lore link between the magic and miracles of the way of white, and the magic and miracles of the anti-fire angelic religion of lothric, both of which have connections to the sable church.

>>170456769
kiting is a form of turtling. passive play is generally disliked

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>>170456942

>picking out miniscule PRESUMPTIONS within a multi-paragraph statement

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>>170457161
>kiting is a firm of turtling

Dismissed.

>>170457214
it's passive play. I didn't say don't do it, idgaf

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>crystal soul spear does 2k damage on headshots to yhorm
>crystal soul spear does 6k damage on headshots when he staggers

lol the stormruler is for pussies

>>170457214
Anyone who thinks turtling is holding l1 with a shield is an idiot

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Are any of you anons getting this and are kind enough to scan it ?

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What in the fuck are these? They're ridiculously strong, they killed me dead in 2 hits. I never even saw the BR who invaded me, my world was just filled with red NPC mobs.

>>170457408

gravelord covenant, permanently makes another players world much harder

>>170457408
Gravelord phantoms
They appear when a Gravelord servant uses an eye of death in NG+

>>170457408
Your world is now blessed by Gravelord Nito.

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LETS PLAY A GAME
Anons will post two unities (characters/foundations/places)
Other anons will try and correlate those two
>>170457408
you lucky son of a bitch have been gravelorded aka blessed by papa nito. google "gravelord"

>>170457408
it's nito's stand [back from the grave]

>>170457338
Anyone who thinks you're not supposed to avoid damage any way that is efficient is an idiot.

Dodging attacks isn't turtling. Repositioning so your oponent can't counterattack isn't turtling. It's common sense.

>>170457774
P.S. How the hell did these idiots even beat Iundex Gundyr if they think all you're supposed to do to the opponent is run up to them and mash R1? I genuinely want to know.

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how much of a wizard are you /dsg/?

I hope you're too intelligent to level physical stats

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>>170457616
Agdayne and archdragon peak

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COME ONE COME ALL

In just three weeks the first /dsg/ thread tourney is starting. On March 25th, 2pm PST a PC tournament will be held prior the release of The Ringed City DLC.

Participants will be matched up with others who sign-up and fight for the claim to be /dsg/'s champion. The winner and runner-ups will receive prizes including Steam games and being better than everyone else who fought.
Sign-up sheet is here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdE5nW644n-uDkR2sLrJD--n4Nsynw2f9GP2BJOrNUBpgiBiw/viewform?usp=sf_link

For the sake of organization either your Steam ID or a Discord ID will be needed to sign-up. If using only one Steam IDs will be organized via that channel and Discord users can join the accompanying server in the link above to ensure we don't have last minute drop-outs with no explanation.

RULES:
-Maximum Soul Level of 125 allowed. Someone with CE open will be monitoring all players to make sure this rule and others aren't broken.
-The starting location will be High Wall, followed by Farron Keep bridge and ending at the Darkmoon Tomb.
-Fights are best of 3
-Each fight is 2 minutes long, the one with the most % health left at the end will win if both are alive.
-Gargoyle Flame Spear, Washing Pole, Throwing Knives, Anri's Straight Sword, Ethereal Oak Shield, Ancient Dragon Greatshield, and Fire Surge are banned.
-Only two Ashen Estus sips per fight, any more and your win will not count, initiating a rematch. Do this twice and you are disqualified
-All Regen items and spells are banned to disincentive passive shittery. This includes Sun Princess Ring, Blessed Weapon, Spells like Bountiful Sunlight, and anything infused with Blessed.
-Normal FC rules still apply such as no healing items. Fight rotation will be determined once brackets are set.

Requirements to join: Discord and/or Steam ID for organization purposes.

https://discord.gg/eNvRAh7 - Discord invite.

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>>170458180
>actually starting as a sorcerer
>actually going to 60INT on SL80

>>170458180
Two big problems in DaS3 magic, that fucking ugly hat and dagger.

At least in DaS2 you could get a cool dagger and nice hat(s).

>>170458180
No need brain. Me smash. Smash smart.

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>>170458321
Is that Gwyndolin sucking his own dick?

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I'm going to add the Grotesque Londor Growers (who are completely different) and pilgrim butterflys to this but for now this is where I'm at.

Basically, Emma=Londor Pilgrim=Mysterious angel like creature.

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>>170458180
My level 20 alt has more vigor and endurance than that.

Also, spells are inviable for PVP since they are heavily telegraphed, have a blatant visual and sound cue, and are therefore easily dodged.

Also, what the hell is with the offhand dark hand

The only way this build could ever work is if you use that Young White Branch and hope they don't notice you until you get your spell off, and hope it kills them in one hit.

>>170458671
>Also, what the hell is with the offhand dark hand

it's for taunting people with by spamming l1

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>>170458321
Well, ADP is obviously NK's turf and NK's outfit bears quite a few similarities to Agdayne's
>>170458180
>hidden body

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>tfw the path of dragons and darkwraith covenants used to be one and the same
>tfw its revealed that the primordial serpents are ancient humans that almost ascended to everlasting dragonhood before deciding to embrace the dark and corrupt the dragon-worshiping pygmies.
>tfw the ringed city fell apart for the same reasons the kingdom of Lothric did: Religious Civil war: This time between the new faith of the Way of White and the corrupted dragonwraiths. This mirriors the conflict in Lothric between the pillars of rule and the angelic cult.
>tfw the Way of White, Velka's Pardoners, the darkwraiths, and the path of dragon covenants can all be traced back to a single church in the ringed city
>tfw the name of the church comes up as
Old Londo's Cathedral

>>170458671
>spells aren't viable
So you've never faced a sorcerer build?

>>170458671
>Also, spells are inviable for PVP

maybe if you're a duelfag, they still work for invasions

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>>170458413
>>170458651
Stop spamming this shit, no one cares.

>>170458426
For a pyro its better to stay at 80.

>>170458646

This is all old news.

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mrw ds lors is actually better than lotr lore

>>170459071
The famitsu creature is new. Besides, it'll be handy to have it all saved in 1 image.

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>>170458871

>>170459051
If your pyro is designed for invasions it's better to stay at even lower levels, like 40-50.

>>170458871
I love that webm

>>170456761
That's some eyes on the inside shit right there.

>>170458646

emma tells you multiple times that prince lothric is to be the one, last lord.

tfw she meant the dark lord

>>170459150

It's not new. We knew about it when Vaati, curse his name, described it from his playthrough

>>170458646
>Grotesque Londor Growers
That's just how Vaati referred to the things that you need to kill to make the Angels disappear ? Isn't that the same thing as the stone humped shit revealed today ?

>>170458984
Yeah, they spam the same attack over and over until you kill them, and put up the homing soulmass every chance, not realizing that you can easily choose when to activate it. Then there's that atrocious giant blue sword that I've never been hit once by.

Only mindless NPC enemies would be beaten by such a build. Or maybe an opponent who didn't see you and got one-shotted.

>>170454641
I thought prince lothric refused to link the fire because of the "First of the Scholars" (Sullyvahn, Ludleth, Aldia) told him not to.

>>170458983
>Dragons and Darkwraiths are connected to eachother.
I don't know about that.

>>170459276
emma is a follower of Lothric's old faith, which is based entirely around firelinking.

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>>170458871

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>>170459223

>>170459215
I get plenty of invasion at pontiff.

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>>170459243
Did someone say AYYS?

>>170458646
It makes no sense her being Emma, Since the old lady is fucking Londor pilgrim, Emma would have to go to Londor, become infected with humanity angel bullshit and go pilgrim then. That also considering Emma fucking dies before we meet the new wetnurse, she might be related to the Lothric family, but she aint fucking Emma.

>>170459514
it's not a matter of invasions though you get less traffic the higher you go, it's pure viability
pyro at SL50 melts people before they can even notice you

>>170458871
>Sacred Bloom Shield
mein neger

>>170458671

There are plenty of viable spells for duels and invasions. Most people are just retarded and don't think to attune things that aren't Soul Spears/Soulmasses.

>>170459589
What weapon level?

>>170458646

The one we meet might have been the wet nurse of Filianore. The scans have specifically mentioned there will be royalty in the DLC

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>>170459534
You tell me. :^)

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>>170459484
I miss the golem armor, I think it was my favorite set in 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DYsQvMo2iM

when dark souls removed gfwl did it transfer achievements and automatically unlock steam achievements or did you have to get them all over again

>>170459796
+4-6 depending where you invade

>>170459423
>emma is a follower of Lothric's old faith, which is based entirely around firelinking.

it wasn't just the first scholar, the kingdom was infested with an angelic, divine faith, that actively doubted the linking of the fire. the religion was considered heresy, and it was worshiped in secret. Lothric's three pillars of rule (the priestess emma, the scholar ___, and the knight Lorian) became corrupted with the divine faith, which is why it descended into civil war and collapsed.

>>170459829

It shifted them.

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Ok, I think I've decided. I'm gonna make her main weapon a harpe to cut off the genitals off the patriarchy and make her shoot bleeding miracles.

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Who's this semen demon ?

>>170459406
No, and that's exactly what I'm typing up now.

>Grotesque Londor Grower

>A pink fleshy creature grows from the corpse of a pilgrim, looking up towards the Angel
If you kill the creature growing out of a Pilgrim's shell, the Angel in the sky dies. The Grower is its vulnerable avatar located somewhere else.

The Grower appears to be different to the Stone-humped Hag. The Stone-humped Hag does not appear to be pink or growing FROM the pilgrims corpse. Rather, it appears to have emerged from it like a butterfly.

Multiple growers exist, one for each angel, but the Stone-humped Hag appears to be unique and singular.
It looks down upon the angels whilst the growers look up.

>>170459559
You're forgetting that pilgrims can't die until they fulfil their duty, which could explain why Emma could survive despite seemingly dying when we see her..

In addition, after her death what's to say she didn't get infected by something else in the time between you killing dancer and whenever the flameless shrine is accessed. Recall we warp far to the future in order to access the kiln.

>>170459802
But Gwyn left Filianore during his reign which was a very long time ago. She'd need to be extremely old in order to still be alive.

But even if that's fine, her dialogue indicates that she conversed with prince lorian.

>From time to time, voices brim in the depths of the cavity, even now.
>Mutterings of the very demon that prince lorian spoke of, i'm sure.

Occams razor would suggest that she was emma rather than an extremely old wet nurse from Gwyns time that happened to come to lothric, converse with lorian at least once then return to the ringed city.

>>170460141
Waifu Souls 2017

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>>170458180
Expecto Patronum

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>watching someones life fall apart because of their drinking problem
truly saddening

>>170460141
I won't be surprised if that's the very first firekeeper.

>>170459880
If all three pillars of rule became corrupted by the new faith, there wouldn't exactly have been a civil war would there?
Its quite clear that emma (priest pillar) was trying to keep the old faith intact, but lost control of the situation.

>>170454424
>Famitsu screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/A6diD

Didn't know we got new info. Anything juicy here?

>>170459423
>I thought prince lothric refused to link the fire because of the "First of the Scholars" (Sullyvahn, Ludleth, Aldia) told him not to.
Don't engage him. He has no idea what he's talking about, and despite being proven wrong in the last thread, he's still at it again with his badly-thought out asspulled theories.

The entire basis for his whole idea is
-There's feathers in Prince Lothric's bedroom (which could have been from a pillow that exploded in a previous fight there for all we know)
-There's feathers in the mock-birdcage above the archives
-There's feather's on Frampt's angelicized statue
Therefore Frampt in his feathery robes snuck into the archives and convinced the scholars (who were pro-light except for their leader) to side with Oceiros against Oceiros' children, and free the woman trapped in the cage and start a new religion that casts divine miracles based on light, but is actually anti-light.

>>170460141

divine member of the furtive pygmy's family

>>170460141
Gwynevere

>>170460141
It's Gwynevelka.

>>170460293
>>170460141
"Clothes that were worn during the age of Gods. Also very rare to see armor for women. With an elegant touch of fashion, only people from the royal family were able to wear this armor."

>>170460269
>Therefore Frampt in his feathery robes snuck into the archives
P.S. And Frampt also snuck into the prince's bedroom (which is not at all weird) and got feathers everywhere

>>170460239

>If all three pillars of rule became corrupted by the new faith, there wouldn't exactly have been a civil war would there?

it's called a coup d'etat

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>>170459880

That said, the biggest thing that is not figured out yet is who the statues in the archives are.

They're obviously important figures, but their identities are unknown. The king is probably Oceiros.

The Primordial Serpent is fortunately easily identifiable as such, but which isn't known. The melted scholar with the book is also unknown. It is reminiscent of Aldia, has the melted appearance, three description as a scholar as well as doubted the linking of the Fire like Aldia, but no confirmation. People say it could be Sulyvahn but he doesn't really have any links with royalty aside from having the sword.

The priestess, I don't know.

But also the small, crowned figure holding the orb with the big head and wings. Looks suspiciously like Ludleth with a beard, but no idea.

I was fighting Carthus and the camera was spinning like crazy wtf

Died two times (NG+4), it has been months that I don't play this game, I'm a little rusty. I just want to finish it before the ringed city release.

>>170460269
>which could have been from a pillow that exploded in a previous fight there for all we know

this is the argument of somebody with brain damage

>>170460141

That's obviously the same armor that the Firekeeper wears.

>>170460572
It's sarcasm. The angels could have attacked the princes for all we know.

>There's feathers on the ground
>Therefore a collossal snake wearing fake angel wings was there
This is the argument of someone with severe brain damage.

>>170460141
sauce?

>>170460721
>Therefore a collossal snake wearing fake angel wings was there

it's called religious symbolism you goddamn retard. they depicted him with angel wings artistically because THEY THOUGHT HE WAS AN ANGEL.

>>170460173

No, Occam's Razor simply says that she knew of Lorian's exploits. Many, many beings have survived the ages and lived to tell tales of times long past. Emma is certainly not the only wet nurse in existence, and there are MULTIPLE royal children abound. At least two royal people confirmed for being introduced in this very DLC: Filianore and the woman in the Firekeeper robes.

>>170460721
Don't Lothric's attacks spread feathers everywhere?

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>>170457535
>>170457557
>>170457568
>>170457616
>>170457621
Don't worry, I fixed my world. That was fucking fun, why don't other souls games have this?

>>170460269
Given the kinds of spells prince lothric uses, I'm inclined to believe that he was a member of the angelic cult, but it was more of a giant middle finger to emma and the firelinking faith.
Also wasn't Gertrude the queen's bastard daughter or something?

>>170460474
>People say it could be Sulyvahn but he doesn't really have any links with royalty aside from having the sword.
Aldia being the first of the scholars raises more questions than answers.
As for Sullyvahn, sorcerers are synonymous with scholars in dark souls and I think scholarly expeditions were part of an established curriculum at the grand archives.

>>170460445
>>170460474
>>170460721
>>170460820
I'm pretty sure Frampt is connected with the firelinking old faith of Lothric. Thats his thing after all.

>>170461054

yes. all "divine" magic from pillars of light to prince lothric to the dreg heap angels to the rosaria man-grubs spawn feathers with their magic.

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>>170461114

Bamco thought it would be mean

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>>170461114
Because From hates interesting and functional covenants.

>>170461158
So why can't the feathers around Lothric's room be the result of his battles against previous unkindled that have gotten that far?

>>170461149

Actually Aldia would make sense. What questions does it raise?

>>170461149

frampt having a hand within lothric's religious culture as a holy being would make it far easier for a second snake (cough cough *kaathe*) to infiltrate and institute a competing scripture. the serpent statues outside of the Lothric bossfight are smashed, after all, so the lothric serpent was not aligned with whatever Lothric was aligned with.

>>170460269
>ludleth
Why do you include him with the possible "first scholars"?

>>170461250
>So why can't the feathers around Lothric's room be the result of his battles against previous unkindled that have gotten that far?

they most likely are, nothing about my post he's bitching about implies that an angel entered lothric's room and shat feathers everywhere. what it IS meant to imply is that the feathers are a blatant symbol for something divine within the dark souls 3 universe, and this divinity has connections spanning from the way of white, the lothric royal family, the "heavenly daughters" such as gertrude, the "angel" that gave gertrude divine pillars of light, the way of white influenced man-grubs of rosaria, and the sable church influenced angels of the pilgrims of londor

essentially, it runs very deep and spans multiple kingdoms and religions. dark soul

>>170460820
There are physically feathers on the ground you retard.

I am quoting you from earlier:
>a being, presumably a serpent, visited the heavenly daughter Gertrude as an angel

You are acting as if a collossal, dragon-sized snake can just sneak around the castle, leaving feathers everywhere from his ceremonial robe, pretending to be an angel.

It's a stupid, stupid, stupid theory and you must be retarded to believe it.

Here is what actually happened:
-The kingdom followed Way of White and worshipped Gwynn and the linking of the fire. Their entire culture was built around self-sacrifice.
-Oceiros was mad and left the kingdom to his heirs. He also gave the scholars free reign as long as they researched dragons, and neglected the faith and the military
-The scholars fell to dark heresy
-The head of the scholars (who was not Suleyvan, since Suleyvan was busy pursuing a career in theology in Irithyll), convinced the Princes that they shouldn't link the fire
-The princes, who didn't want to be burnt alive, naturally agreed
-They got the High Priestess to agree with them that they didn't need to sacrifice the fire
-The high priestess was conflicted, but agreed out of motherly love for them
-The faithful of Gwyn were discontent with this since it became apparent that the flame would need to be linked and there was no one to replace the Princes as the lord of cinder
-Gertrude, the prisoner in the archives held by the scholars, had an angelic vision
-The vision inspired the Way of White followers to rebel
-Those who followed the angels' teachings were labelled heretics by the High Priestess to demoralize them, even though they were the true believers who supported the linking of the flame
-The rebellion probably involved most of the kingdom, and only a handful of loyal knights were holding out at the castle
-Suleyvan sent Outriders to aid them
-Eventually the dying High Priestess summons you to kill the princes since she has a deathbed crisis of conscience

>>170461323
where the fuck Aldia is at the moment and the fate of the botc

>>170461654
>-The head of the scholars (who was not Suleyvan, since Suleyvan was busy pursuing a career in theology in Irithyll), convinced the Princes that they shouldn't link the fire
What about the statue though? Why the fuck is Lothric wielding the profaned greatsword?

>>170461654

why do you think that I think a serpent physically wormed his way through the castle to visit the bird cage? obviously it was a metaphysical communication, the only debate we have is the identity of the angelic being, in regards to a post that is far more about the source of the divinity that is linked to the angel feather phenomenon, not the feathers themselves or the actual events of the coup (which is very similar to what I had in mind)

the primary message of that argument being that, this seemingly divine force can be traced towards both the way of white, and the angelic londor creatures, painting a very disjointed and sinister picture of what divinity actually is.

my headcannon theory is that thorolund fell to the dark and became londor, taking their branch of the way of white with them.

and fyi, the scholars corrupted oceiros, not the other way around. item descriptions state that oceiros turned to the scholars when he found doubt in his faith, and they introduced him to their seath worshipping cult.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPqem9zQlbM

>>170461159
you lost to a fatrolling pisspants

>>170461532
ludleth calls himself a scholar of forbidden arts and certain dialogue implies that ludleth may have not been originally trying to link the fire.
it's a weak connection but so are all of the candidates for that position

Why the first flame resurrected specifically those 4 lords of cinder (Lothric never linked the flame), and not, let's say, Gwyn or whatever? Are those the four last to link the flame?

>>170461114
Because the conditions for it to work were kind of ridiculous
>>170461250
>grapelords
>functional

>>170461654
Okay, but this is just as retarded.

The scholars did not believe in the dark. The first scholar did. You are assigning the first scholar's beliefs onto the entire scholar pillar of Lothric, which is impossible since it was literally Oceiros's most favored pillar and he's the greatest firelinking faggot in the series since literally Frampt.

I am with you. A serpent visiting Gertrude is dumb. Serpents are not to blame for the Angelic Faith.

Thinking that the Angelic Faith is FOR linking the fire is twice as retarded, though. It's literally Vaati fan-fiction tier. Please fucking stop.

>>170462245

He seemed to be merged with the Bonfires. Why he's not showing his face-thing is curious, but since he survived his "death" in the second game and intended to watch over the beings struggling to find a way to beat the curse it's not unheard of for him to work from behind the scenes.

>>170462319
>What about the statue though? Why the fuck is Lothric wielding the profaned greatsword?
There's also a statue of the Nameless King in DS1 holding Solaire's straight sword even though he uses a Dragonslayer Swordspear. The modellers needed a sword, so they pulled one they liked from the game files, probably before the flavor text was written for it.

But if you want an explanation for something so totally vague and un-fleshed, then maybe Lothric gave the sword to Suleyvan since Suleyvan was another pro-dark ruler and a potential ally; and Suleyvan went and profaned it.

>>170462339
>obviously it was a metaphysical communication
The serpents have never, ever displayed any magical powers whatsoever, let alone an ability to astrally project themselves.

>>170462498
>scholar of forbidden arts
that refers to soul transposition, you dumb ghru

redpill me on the estoc

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If we actually get answers in the dlc, I think the angels will end up being one of if not THE significant, independent lore that DS3 brings to the series.

I mean seriously they're linked to:

Pilgrims
Angelic Faith
The Lothric Civil War
Gertrude, Twin Princes and possibly Oceiros seeing as he's called dragonangel
Rosaria and her rebirthed maggot men
The Cathedral Of The Deep
The Ringed City
The primordial serpent, probably Frampt

And whilst I think it's unlikely, the Darklurker could get a reference here as well.

>>170462752
>There's also a statue of the Nameless King in DS1 holding Solaire's straight sword even though he uses a Dragonslayer Swordspear. The modellers needed a sword, so they pulled one they liked from the game files, probably before the flavor text was written for it.
That's a bit too far fetched, not to mention it's a different game and NKs persona was not yet fleshed out.

>>170461323

1. where the fuck is aldia
2. why the fuck would aldia bother
3. why are there no statues depicting the amorphous blob that is aldia
4. why would aldia be teaching seathian soul magic when he researched humanity and the dark soul
5. why would his spiritual guides be students of big hat logan who practice seathian crystal soul magic
6. why would the archives revolve around a cult that worships seath the scaleless

aldia being the first scholar literally makes 0% sense

>>170462630

you guys seem to be latching onto a one sentence introduction instead of the actual meat of the post, which is about the source of the divine angel magic, not the properties of the divine angel magic. I'm going to trim down any speculation from that first sentence

>>170462752

and if you disagree with me about the identity of the angel that's fine, the angel = serpent is a throwaway mention of my post, it has virtually nothing to do with it and can be removed without changing it whatsoever.

greenpill me on soltaire.
Would he have killed gwyn if the player character didn't?

>>170462537

The First Flame didn't bring them back, the Bell did. It's entirely possible that the ceremony to Link the Fire turns multiple people into Lords of a Cinder at a time. It is said that putting them on their thrones and collecting their essence imitates the very first Linking of the Fire. We never saw HOW the ritual went the first time when Gwyn did it. What this would imply is that Gwyn did not become a Lord on his own. He had assistance from others who gave their essence to him in a ritual so that he could Link the Fire. The question is: who were they?

>>170463101
That's what Miyazaki confirmed happens if you save him from the chaos bug. He defeats Gwyn then links the fire in his own world.

>>170462625
What about it doesn't function? It's my first time in NG+ on DaS1 and I got gravelorded almost instantly.

>>170462752
>>There's also a statue of the Nameless King in DS1 holding Solaire's straight sword
There is no such thing and if you're refering to the baby held by the chick in sunlight altar, you better check your eyes. That looks nothing like the sss, it's much closer to the sks

>>170462870

you forgot the way of white, Aldrich and his follows were way of white members before they went full cult. that's why man-grubs spam divine magic at you.

the man-grubs are probably also the larvae that pupate into butterflies & angels, which would be why the cathedral of the deep and saint klimt held on to her.

>>170463034
>4. why would aldia be teaching seathian soul magic when he researched humanity and the dark soul
Aldia WAS a sorcerer as well as a pyromancer/fire sorcerer. He's the author of Soul Stream/Soul Geyser, since they share the same name in japanese.

>>170462630
Please show me where in the game Oceiros is "the greatest firelinking faggot in the series since literally Frampt."

He seems absolutely mad when you meet him and cares about nothing but turining into a dragon.

A likely theory of his development is:
1. Normal guy, maybe, at one point
2. Has a crisis of faith since his sons will need to be sacrificed by tradition. They are also great disappointments who are crappy sacrifices.
3. Turns to scholars, who inherited Seathe's research and secretly started worshipping him
4. Starts worshipping Seathe himself
5. Seathe went mad during his research. Logan went mad reading Seathe's research. It's likely that the research has a maddening effect; and Oceiros went mad too
6. Starts trying to make the perfect new son to link the fire and satisfy the tradition
7. Hey, dragons are immortal, why not a dragon baby. That might make for good linking
8. Becomes obsessed with the baby
9. Locks himself in the garden with it to protect it
10. When he realizes the baby is powerless, gets frustrated and kills it

>>170463214
then the player character is almost irrelevant. He's just a support for soltaire

>>170463376
>He seems absolutely mad when you meet him and cares about nothing but turining into a dragon.
P.S. Turning into a dragon, AND turning his infant baby into a dragon. During the fight with him, this is literally all he talks about.

>>170463034

Look at the statues in the Archives picturing a melted figure with a book. Who do you think that is?

Also Aldia did all sorts of Dragon experiments. Knowing that Seathe did find a means of immortality in the Primordial Crystal, which Seathe nicked from the Everlasting Dragons themselves, it's not unheard of that he would see Seathe as the forerunner in immortality and beating the curse.

>>170463521
I thought he had his baby after turning into a dragon

>>170463373

>He's the author of Soul Stream/Soul Geyser

no he's not, DaS2 specifically calls it a family heirloom.

>>170463681
Not sure if the baby was born human and turned into a dragon or was born a dragon. It's not entirely important either way.

>>170463782
P.S. Nor is it really important whether he turns into a dragon before having the baby or after. It's all linked to his going mad.

He wanted to either
1. Spare his two sons by offering another child
or
2. Didn't care much for them but wanted to provide a better sacrifice than them

Or maybe he just really got into the dragon thing and wanted a dragon baby and forgot about the fire altogether.

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>>170463335
pic for reference

>>170463935
P.P.S. But on second thought given how OBSESSED he is over the child and its presumed power, it is likely that he wanted the child for a greater purpose, not just as a replacement for his sons.

>>170463376
>The Lothric bloodline was obsessed with creating a worthy heir, and when this proved impossible, resorted to unspeakable means. Suffice it to say, the path to linking the fire is a cursed one indeed.

>>170463376
Cinders of a lord left by Prince Lothric.

If the lords will not return to their thrones themselves, let them return as cinders.

The Lothric bloodline was obsessed with creating a worthy heir, and when this proved impossible, resorted to unspeakable means. Suffice it to say, the path to linking the fire is a cursed one indeed.

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>>170463376
>Please show me where in the game Oceiros is "the greatest firelinking faggot in the series since literally Frampt."

>6. Starts trying to make the perfect new son to link the fire and satisfy the tradition
>7. Hey, dragons are immortal, why not a dragon baby. That might make for good linking


??????

Anon?

>>170463376
>Seathe went mad during his research
I always wanted to know what specifically Seath was studying

>>170464279
>>The Lothric bloodline was obsessed with creating a worthy heir, and when this proved impossible, resorted to unspeakable means. Suffice it to say, the path to linking the fire is a cursed one indeed.
This fits the narrative entirely.

First son: Couldn't link the fire for an unspecified reason. (Perhaps he was the heir to the throne?)
Second son: weak and crappy, but still bound by tradition to be the sacrifice

The first son eventually linked souls with the second son anyways.

So Oceiros wanted to create the dragon baby Ocellotte to link the fire. This was why he became so obsessed over it but doesn't say one word about Lothric or Lorian when you confront him.

However, when you, the Chosen Ash whose job is to gather the sacrifices, confront him, he tells you he won't give up the baby because "it is all I have left".

So he stopped caring about the original purpose for having the baby. Instead he seems more concerned with the child's dragon aspect and its power. But when the child is revealed to be powerless (aside from being invisible, which he doesn't realize since he's blind), he tries to kill it in frustration then devolves into a beast.

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>>170464514
Immortality.

>>170464434
>>6. Starts trying to make the perfect new son to link the fire and satisfy the tradition
>>7. Hey, dragons are immortal, why not a dragon baby. That might make for good linking
To support this, I will use the exact same quote: >>170464279

Also, see: >>170464658

When we meet Oceiros, he doesn't care about the fire anymore, even though he had originally at one point.

>>170464514
Everything, with his goal to learn how to get scales. Which led him to the creation of snakemen and tentacle waifus. But that wasn't enough so he took up learning how to harness the power of the primordial crystal

>>170464658
>First son: Couldn't link the fire for an unspecified reason. (Perhaps he was the heir to the throne?)
Probably because they were trying to bring back Filianore back and never recuperated from fighting the demon prince?

>>170464787
okay but thats literally the point of the discussion you dense motherfucker

why would he outlaw angels for being for the fire if he was for the fire himself

now before you open your autistic mouth and say "buhbuhbuhbut he doesnt care about the linking of the fire anymore", there would be no reason for him to outlaw a religion about linking the fire if he was too obsessed with becoming a dragon dad either way

get your shit together, holy fuck my man

>>170464514
how to create the perfect anime waifu
he went mad after realizing it cant be done

>>170464514

the soul and immortality

>>170464990
THE PRINCES RULED THE KINGDOM.

THE PRINCES ARE AGAINST THE LINKING OF THE FIRE.

THE PRINCES OUTLAWED THE ANGELIC "HERESY" BECAUSE IT WAS MADE UP OF THOSE LOYAL TO THE ORIGINAL FAITH.

Jesus, are you even paying attention?

Oceiros doesn't even have any power, he's a total recluse who hides in his garden obsessing over a baby while the princes run the kingdom.

>>170463376
>theory

That's more or less explicit though. The game outright tells you 80% of that happened.

>>170458413
>bks not banned
not like I wanted to come anyway

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>>170464997
>it cant be done
I beg to differ.

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>>170465336
shit wrong pic

>>170465251
Not the same person, but then why do the gayboys use angel magic?

>>170465336
>a man of taste
>in /dsg/
huh

>>170464997

the reality of his research, which drove him insane, also causes people who understand it to go bonkers and imitate a dragon

whatever he discovered goes deeper than "immortality aint real", it has to be something that inspires people to turn themselves into dragon people.

>>170465418
>twice in a row
get it together, anon

>>170465418
Not anime.

>Worship of the divine messengers was viewed as heresy in Lothric and unrecognized by any of the Three Pillars of rule.

>This is believed to be why Gertrude, the Heavenly Daughter, was imprisoned in the lofty cell of the Grand Archives.

The angels themselves were ok, it was the WORSHIP of them that was a problem. We know that Lothric worshipped the Sun, both literally and figuratively as Gwyn.

This also implies that Gertrude was imprisoned at some point due to worshipping them. Her interactions were fine until she started worshipping them, which led to winged knights swearing allegiance and declaring civil war, possibly in an attempt to free her.

>>170465551
she is an imaginary woman in a japanese animation

>>170465439

the angel magic is a result of their bloodline, they'd use it no matter what

>>170465251

then why are the winged knights on the prince's team? reality is that the angelic faith was considered heresy long before the kingdom fell to the coup. the angelic faith's corruption of the kingdoms pillars is what caused the coup.

>>170465503
They opened up a portal to reddit, youtube, and /dsg/, and read and believed the lore theories.

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>>170465251
>THE PRINCES RULED THE KINGDOM.

The princes sat up in the throne room after dad locked himself in his dead baby room because there was no sane ruler anymore.

>THE PRINCES ARE AGAINST THE LINKING OF THE FIRE.

Correct.

>THE PRINCES OUTLAWED THE ANGELIC "HERESY" BECAUSE IT WAS MADE UP OF THOSE LOYAL TO THE ORIGINAL FAITH.

Incorrect. Their room is littered with feathers, their spells are golden like the angel spells we're seeing in the DLC, and Gertrude is their step-sister.

>Oceiros doesn't even have any power, he's a total recluse who hides in his garden obsessing over a baby while the princes run the kingdom.

There's no kingdom to run, my man. The angels ransacked it, and the princes (at best) let it happen, and at worst were a part of the coup. Hence, "Princes", not "Kings".

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>>170465681
It's not an animation, it's a videogame.
And she's not even the best souls girl.

>>170465439
Because they were raised to be holy symbols, with holy robes and swords. Light and fire are seen as holy. So are angels. The angelic feathers obviously intended to give off a holy feel.

1. Frampt's angelicized statue (Frampt was pro-fire, BTW, not anti-fire)
2. Grubmen (who worship Rosaria, a goddess)
3. The ascended winged knights

Etc.

Feathers simply represent divine magic.

>>170466017
If you're telling me that and also that they outlawed angel worship as heresy, you're telling me they did a pretty shit job.

>>170465957
>a CGI model who has movement and voice is not an animation

>>170466017

and the divine magic and the "angel feather" motif traces back not only to the way of white (which on the surface is fine) but also to the pilgrims of londor, a decidedly anti-fire group, and the angelic coup within the kingdom that was actively protecting the princes from being collected to link the flame.

the concept of divinity is meant to be confusing and sinister in DaS3, it's allegiance and source not readily explainable or tenable. It just is.

>>170465696
>then why are the winged knights on the prince's team? reality is that the angelic faith was considered heresy long before the kingdom fell to the coup. the angelic faith's corruption of the kingdoms pillars is what caused the coup.
The winged knights aren't on the prince's team. Where the hell are you getting this from?

They never fight alongside other enemies. You see them alone. One of them, you see patrolling a room filled with Lothric Knight corpses. You also find their hidden hideout in the castle behind an illusory wall. They needed to stay secretive.

Also, at the time of the story, the side that won the civil war was the curse of undeath, and everyone just became hollow. They all just stand around where they died, waiting for anyone who happens to wander by to slaughter.

>>170466179
Is it confirmed Twin Princes banned angel worship? If it was Emma or the King prior to his madness it would make more sense.

>>170466224
Following that logic Shrek is also anime.

>>170466304

it was a coup, both sides used lothric knights

the fire team was red, and they lost

the angelic team was blue, they won, and the blue knights are actively defending prince lothric

winged knights wear blue armour, and travel freely within the ruined kingdom

>>170466368

they didn't ban angel worship, angel worship was canonically banned by the three pillars from day one. though it's heavily implied at least the scholar was part of the angelic religion.

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>>170466513
>implying he isn't

>>170466179
>If you're telling me that and also that they outlawed angel worship as heresy, you're telling me they did a pretty shit job.
Probably more like: they denied the angel visitation ever happened. That's the heresy part of it. She's lying. There's no need for the princes to link the fire. Fire's doing fine. No need to worry about it going out. Go about your business.

>>170466787

are you saying the angel said to link the fire? or not to link the fire? because linking the fire was the entire fucking backbone of the lothric kingdom.

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Why do the pilgrims turn into horrific, malformed butterflys in Lothric, but turn into grotesque growers that produce an angelic avatar in the Dreg Heap?

>>170466514
>team red lost

Then whats up with all the red assholes in the Castle still?

>>170466514
You see red and blues side by side all the time. The colors represent rank. The blue knights are the higher ranking ones.

Winged knights hide out on rooftops and in hidden rooms. They wouldn't do this if they were on the winning side.

>>170467063

you may not have noticed but the entire place went hollow. chances are the coup never actually "ended" so much as the kingdom fell apart

>>170467023
What Pokemon is this?

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>>170467023
>londor pilgrims controlled DSA
>we're going to londor
>we might get DSA's armor

>>170467206
It's nebby from another dimension.

>>170466017
>The angelic feathers obviously intended to give off a holy feel.

hahaha holy fuck

I love reading your posts

can you make a blog so I can get my daily dose of baseless autism anytime anywhere?

>>170458413
BFs welcome in the tournament?

>>170467468
yes

Is powerstancing crossbows in Dark Souls 2 any good? In terms of PvE and PvP. I'm unfamiliar with stuff like this in regards to DS2.

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Who /blood/ here

>>170466887
Okay, from the start, just for you:

1. The princes didn't want to link the fire
2. The scholar faction didn't want to link the fire
3. The high priestess wanted to link the fire because of her faith but was emotionally conflicted, and ended up protecting the princes until her deathbed change of heart
4. The people became discontent because it was tradition for the royal family to provide a sacrifice to link the fire
5. Gertrude had the angelic prophesy
6. Those who were pro-firelinking rebelled, inspired by the prophesy.
7. The prophesy was denied and declared a heresy by the princes' decree. (Remember now, the princes were pro-dark)
8. The winged knights fought for the angelic faith
9. The soldiers and lothric knights either fought for the princes, or were divided and fought amongst themselves
10. Likely the loyalists to the princes were smaller than the rebels, since the Lothric culture was built around linking and self-sacrifice, so there would be a huge backlash against the princes shirking their duty.
11. The princes holed up in their bedroom, but managed to gain control of most of the castle
12. POSSIBLY: the princes used their magic to raise the high wall (create a giant mountain to separate the castle from the rest of the kingdom)

>>170467023

actually the angel is different than the pupa creature

both are white, but they have different body compositions.

the pupa is closer to a body horror butterfly/dragon, whereas the angel is just an angel.

took me a bit to realize it but the pilgrim hag isn't dead, it just shed its human skin and became a monster

Im playind DaS2 Scholar and reached Aldia's keep. There is abunhcbunch of floor messages that reads '???'. There should be text there. Someone knows what is the problem?

>>170467823

this still doesn't explain why what you describe as a pro-fire group is thematically linked to the pilgrim abominations of londor.

last time I checked, londor was about as against linking the fire as one can possibly get.

>>170468108
Pull the lever

>>170468145
The angels aren't linked to londor in any way.

Londor is its own separate faith, the Sable Church, that worships the darksign and has entirely different goals from the fire altogether from either side of the Lothric conflict.

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>>170468108

>>170468269
Already did, that is why i want to fix the messages

>>170468404
I got bad news buddy. They were all messages saying to 'Turn Back'.

You shouldn't have pulled the lever. Now he will slowly stalk his new mark.

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>>170468335

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH6OrXwB8es

the angels of the ringed city are directly linked to the pilgrims of londor.

these angels are divine beings, they literally shit divine feathery curse magic on you. there is a direct, canonical, in-game connection between londor and the angelic faith.

>>170468335
The angels grow from Londor pilgrims, of course there's a link there!

>>170468489
geee i wish i had some warning there

>>170468924
If the game was working properly, there would've been like 40 dev messages there to tell you not to pull the lever.

>>170468854

why would the sable church, a group actively against linking the fire, put untold amounts of effort into ferrying pilgrims to lothric so they can contribute to an angelic existence that is actively for linking the flame?

>>170469061
Beats me, but considering the angels come from only one group of people and that group is Londor pilgrims you can't deny there's some link there.

I can upgrade demon items without andre right?

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>>170467023
Wrong.

>>170469185

I thought from your exclamation you were being sarcastic.

the link is obvious, so is the angelic faith being against the linking of the fire.

>>170468335
P.S. Unless you mean the "Pilgrim butterflies"

The angelic faith has nothing to do with those, nor do the prince's loyalists. As far as we know, they are just weird monsters. The pilgrims come to Lothric to die because it is the land of the linking of the fire, and they want a Lord of Hollows to usurp the fire, so it is kind of like a holy site for them. Once they die, they presumably transform into those monsters.

>>170468723
I don't have the DLC so I can't comment on that.

>>170468854
We have no reason to believe those weird tree monsters are the angels. Maybe they are, who knows, but here's the thing with the Sable Church anyways: They are pro-fire. They want the fire to be linked. Only they want a dark sigil-infected chosen one to link it and consume it, to create the age of hollows.

>>170469241
someone answer me plz. And how good a weapon is a fully upgraded demon spear?

>>170469061
>why would the sable church, a group actively against linking the fire
Wrong.

From Yuria's Dialog:
"Our Lord and Liege.
I prithee play the usurper.
When the moment cometh to link the fire, wrest it from its mantle.
The Age of Fire was founded by the old gods, sustained by the linking of the fire.
But the old gods are no more, and the all-powerful fire deserveth a new heir.
Our Lord of Hollows, it shall be, who weareth the true face of mankind."

They are pro-fire. They just want to use the fire for a different purpose.

>>170469263
They're literally called PILGRIM Butterflys.

Plus those are hollows who're turning into trees. There aren't any pilgrims turning into trees afaik.

>>170469305
>weird tree monsters are the angels
Do you mean the pilgrim butterflys?

I'm not saying they're the same, they're obviously very different but they both come from the same source which begs the question: why do they turn into one thing at one location and another at a different place?

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>>170469305

>The angelic faith has nothing to do with those

they literally burst from the backs of londor pilgrims

how obvious does from need to make this? the angels are dark, they copied it from berserk just like a ton of things they copied from berserk.

>>170469057
>If the game was working properly
But i wasnt. Im triying to fix that but google is not helping

What are the lore implications of this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYAHKwrYHDM

>>170469553
the branches look like the pilgrim butterfly's wings and they all face towards Lothric castle

They're totally transforming into them

>>170469553

>why do they turn into one thing at one location and another at a different place?

the flame is still burning in lothric, so they come out scorched

in the ringed city it can be assumed the flame is on death's door at best, so they do not come out scorched.

>>170469595
In berserk, it's the gods who are evil. The angels (who were infected by the apostle) still serve the gods.

Also, why would dark-element angels teach light-element spells to people? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

Any of you still playing dark souls 2? Its actually pretty active and i get a lot of duels in colosseum arena

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>They bore large covers on their backs to ensure that they would not become seedbeds for spreading darkness.

Angels are dark and presumably so are the Pilgrim Butterflys.

>>170469667
Where did you buy it from?

>>170460141
its lillaine you fucking retards

Do we know how to enter the DLC? I feel like it's some progression-sensitive shit and I'll end up having to go into Ng+++ for my first playthrough.

Can I summon a phantom for the bed of chaos fight?
I can't find a sign guys

>>170469919
The problem with that connection is, wouldn't a cleric WANT to become an angel? Angels are seen as something holy.

Obviously, whatever comes out of the clerics and pilgrims, isn't an angel.

Also, the pilgrims wear those covers too. They don't want to become those tree monsters.

Also, you've yet to prove in any way that angels are associated with dark. I can prove they are associated with light: Divine Pillars of Light.

>>170469824

for the same reason humanity glows white. there's more to humanity than darkness

>>170469897

I am.

I've got to finish Aldia's Keep, then Dragon's Aerie, then the Giants' Memories, then the Throne Watcher/Defender -> Nashandra -> Aldia gauntlet and, lastly, the DLCs starting with Sunken King and ending with Ivory King.

>>170470123
It glows white for practical reason, because true black in graphic design without a white offset or outline is a mortal sin. It simply doesn't work.

What's your preferred reshade for DaS3? Everything is too damned gray in vanilla.

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>>170470237

>>170470269
>color palette meme

mother fucker i despise artfags so much

art being considered "education" was a fucking mistake

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>>170470118

divine and dark are both humanity. that's the whole meme, humans get to choose to be good or evil, or some shit.

>>170470226

there's a difference between "white outline" and "blinding white light"

>>170470398
Not really, they incorporated the outline into the design because it was a necessity.

>>170467823
>>170468335
>1. The princes didn't want to link the fire
Correct

>2. The scholar faction didn't want to link the fire
You keep saying this, but what you mean is "the first scholar is notable as being against the linking of the fire; nothing is noted about the general opinions of the scholars about this subject, save for the fact that Oceiros was a huge fire linking faggot and he loved the Scholars"

>3. The high priestess wanted to link the fire because of her faith but was emotionally conflicted, and ended up protecting the princes until her deathbed change of heart
Thank god you have this little headcanon, otherwise that would be a pretty big hole in your theory here.

>4. The people became discontent because it was tradition for the royal family to provide a sacrifice to link the fire
No citation, but I follow.

>5. Gertrude had the angelic prophesy
Sure.

>6. Those who were pro-firelinking rebelled, inspired by the prophesy.
Sure.

>7. The prophesy was denied and declared a heresy by the princes' decree. (Remember now, the princes were pro-dark)
They don't rule anything. They are the Princes, not the King. Oceiros is still the ruler, and Oceiros was and is pro-fire.


>8. The winged knights fought for the angelic faith
Correct.

>9. The soldiers and lothric knights either fought for the princes, or were divided and fought amongst themselves
for the linking of the fire* or the princes


>10. Likely the loyalists to the princes were smaller than the rebels, since the Lothric culture was built around linking and self-sacrifice, so there would be a huge backlash against the princes shirking their duty.
Correct, but Prince's side had Angels help, so they won, which is how they accomplished:

>11. The princes holed up in their bedroom, but managed to gain control of most of the castle
They gained "control" over a now broken kingdom because they had the blue (like the Angels) caped loyalists, the Winged Knights, and the Angels of Londor at their side.

>>170470396
>art being considered "education"
Motherfucker, I've never taken any sort of art class since elementary. Dark Souls 3 is fucking washed out and gray.

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>>170470464

a "necessity", because the story of humans gaining knowledge of good and evil isn't a stock standard of basically every ancient western religion.

if it was a necessity they would have just made the outline fiery red

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>>170468335
>>170469305
>The angels aren't linked to londor in any way.
WOW LADLE

>>170470035
Except Liliane is shown in the Usurpation of Fire ending and wears Yuria's shit.

>>170469539
>Wrong.
>They are pro-fire. They just want to use the fire for a different purpose.
>When the moment cometh to link the fire, wrest it from its mantle.
>>They are pro-fire.
>>>They are pro-fire.

>>170470398
>there's a difference between "white outline" and "blinding white light"
Sort of like how there's a huge difference between dark-aligned spells like Gnaw and light-aligned spells like Wrath of the Gods?

In graphic effects alone, they are not the same. Peoples' reactions is not the same (Irena is frightened of them, the pyromancer disapproves, etc.). The spell icon has a different appearance.

Everything about them is different. Dark is obviously dark. Light is obviously light. A "dark angel" would not go around teaching spells that blast people with white light, even though humanity crystals kinda have a white shimmer around them so you can tell them apart from the background.

>>170469919
>Where did you buy it from?
From No man's wharf if you catch my drift

>>170470580
what in the FUCK does this even mean??

>>170470704
Black and red doesn't work. It has to be white.

Stop trying to foist abrahamic metanarratives onto a japanese product. Not every apple is the fucking fruit of knowledge, not ever Mary is a virgin mother, not every serpent is Milton's devil. Take that highschool literary critique out of here.

>>170470721
You must have some nuclear autism to just go in heavy spouting bullshit without anything to back up what you're saying.

1. Angels have never been linked to Londor in any available in-game text or dialogue
2. Yuria (as I showed in the quote) outright tells you to become the heir to the flame because she wants to use the fire for her own purposes.

>>170471001
>1. Angels have never been linked to Londor in any available in-game text or dialogue
?????

Pilgrim Butterflies???

Angels in DLC???

>2. Yuria (as I showed in the quote) outright tells you to become the heir to the flame because she wants to use the fire for her own purposes.
Yeah, they want to use the fire to rip it out and power their lord of hollows, you fucking autist.

>>170470730
>A "dark angel" would not go around teaching spells that blast people with white light

except for the fact that there are fucking dark angels in the dreg heap fucking cursing you with divine magic?

>>170470118

>wouldn't a cleric WANT to become an angel?

We only see the angels at the dreg heap. I wouldn't be surprised if their existence and linking to seedbeds was secret knowledge.

>angels are associated with dark

I'm not that anon that you were replying to earlier but I'll give you my 2 cents if you will.

Angels only come from humans,and not any old humans but undead ones. What sets a human apart from the other creatures like the gods race? Their dark souls.

The angels are connected with the dark soul in some way. We've seen the dark of humanity manifest itself in many different ways, so we shouldn't be surprised there's another one:

>Manus is entirely due to his humanity running wild.
>Manus' soul when fragmented was able to form shards that took on their own lives, each representing an emotion.
>Pus of Man seen in random hollows and gundyr is similar to manus' case but looks quite different.
>Disembodied humanity is what the dark gems for infusion are used for and they appear a pretty purple.
>The 4 Kings appear twisted yet still whitish and that's entirely due to them abusing lifedrain, which itself is using the dark soul to steal the life force of others.


In addition, we know that the angels beam will curse you, and what raises your resistance to curse in DS1? Humanity. This implies curse is an inherently dark and so human power since we can resist it by increasing our standing with the same element. Like how a sorcerer has higher magic defence and someone like Gwyn in his prime would resist lightning.

>>170471001

Jesus Christ you have been completely consumed with Fraampt's lies.

>>170471085
>>1. Angels have never been linked to Londor in any available in-game text or dialogue
>?????
Yes, I know you're confused. Being retarded must be difficult.
>Pilgrim Butterflies???
What about them?
>Angels in DLC???
That don't even look like Pilgrim Butterflies, you moron, and we don't know anything about.
>>2. Yuria (as I showed in the quote) outright tells you to become the heir to the flame because she wants to use the fire for her own purposes.
>Yeah, they want to use the fire to rip it out and power their lord of hollows, you fucking autist.
Yes,
>use
>the
>fire
You are doing it! I'm so proud of you! You are finally getting it!

>>170471001
>1. Angels have never been linked to Londor in any available in-game text or dialogue

except for the fucking ringed city you dense faggot. if you're actively avoiding DLC2 spoilers, you cannot argue here because the DLC2 actively contradicts you

>>170470730

Light and Dark are two halves of the same whole. Just different shades of the same power.

>>170471301
From Vaatis notes

>To kill it permanently, you have to find the pilgrim tree sustaining it and kill that, the angel will die immediately after.

C'mon anon.

>>170471330
Well then I don't know anything about the DLC, but I guess those creatures that are literally blasting you with light are actually dark-aligned pilgrim butterflies in disguise using dark magic! Who would have thought it!

Jesus, what in the actual hell.

It's possible though that the Angels are part of the Sable Church's faith, and the Angellic Heresy is linked to that too. That remains to be confirmed.

HOWEVER. We were originally talking about the princes, and the princes refuse to link the fire. Therefore, they cannot be working with the Sable Church, because they want the fire to go out, NOT to become the Lord of Hollows as the Sable Church wants.

>>170467023
>Why do the pilgrims turn into horrific, malformed butterflys in Lothric, but turn into grotesque growers that produce an angelic avatar in the Dreg Heap?

Probably time travel or similar

The Butterflies are probably said Angels when they've gone full Hollow/Dark

>>170459820
Fires up the neurons this does.

>>170471301
can you put on a trip so I can filter your posts?

>>170471721
>Rush into argument with 0 facts
>Lose argument
>Waah, I don't like you anymore
I thought we made such progress with you, too. I'm disappointed in you. But then, so are many people I would imagine.

>>170460474
Imagine if they finally implement that kat he has on the back.

Is there even any point in getting more STR/DEX than whatever the minimum requirement of the weapon you want is in DS1? For example, the Balder Side Sword gains like 120 damage or so if you go from minimum required DEX to 40 DEX. I feel like putting it all in VIT would be more worth my time

>>170471596
>literally blasting you with light
You are aware this is Dark Souls, which is all about subverting expectations?

You know in DS1 the gods were actually using you the whole time? Seems pretty contradictory on the face of it but dig deeper and it makes sense.

In this case, what's not to say that the angels light beams aren't some manifestation or channelling or transformation of the dark soul?

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can someone please post the strings/names/whatever of the DLC bosses again

pic unrelated

>>170471596

emma wants prince lothric to become "the one, last, lord", which could very well mean the dark lord.

the princes completely opted out of every option, the coup itself could have been londor vs flame linkers and the princes just didn't want anything to do with it.

we just don't know yet, all we know is that the divine beings of the dreg heap are directly connected to the pilgrims of londor, and are decidedly dark

>>170471001
>Yuria (as I showed in the quote) outright tells you to become the heir to the flame because she wants to use the fire for her own purposes.
There is a solid difference between wanting to use the Fire for her own purposes and wanting a human/hollow to be in control of it. The latter being what is actually implied.

>tfw harald curved greatsword rumors are true and it really does have base innate dark damage like dragonslayer's axe and lightning damage

they really want people to become hexdexers

>>170471856
What was the point of this post?

Also, when you say facts, do you mean facts like interpreting "wrest the fire from its mantle" as a pro-fire statement?

>>170472231
Source for rumours on the greatsword?

>>170472272
It's pro fire in the sense that it's not anti fire. They don't want the end of fire, they still need it to bring an age of hollows.

>>170472124
Mather Doragon
Demon of Feces
Pain of Ages

>>170472231
Curved GS are quality weapons, they have really fucking awful synergy with elemental builds, especially dark. That's why they were one of the weaponclasses to get a unique twinkling weapon that was quality-based.

>>170471964
yes

bss scales like a motherfucker with high dex

Do the Shulva poison statue guys really drop twinkling titanite? What's a good way to kill them that isn't arrows or spells?

>>170472065
>You are aware this is Dark Souls, which is all about subverting expectations?
It's also about disparity. That's the whole point of this world's existence, as stated in DS1's intro. Light and Dark are part of that disparity. They are the polar opposites that the world exists on.
>You know in DS1 the gods were actually using you the whole time? Seems pretty contradictory on the face of it but dig deeper and it makes sense.
Yes, everyone is aware of that. However, your subversion also has a subversion:
Gwyndolin is not a master manipulator. He's a powerful illusionist, but more like the Wizard of Oz than Machiavelli. He hides behind the illusion of Gwynevere to hide his unusual appearance. He has no statue, his father was ashamed of this, but despite this, he literally lives in his father's crypt out of devotion. His voice is fragile and uncertain when you speak to him. He's only trying to carry on his father's legacy. He's so incompetent a manipulator that he appoints Yorshka as the captain of his spies/guards/assassins. Yorksha is a girl so naive and sheltered she thinks you are a bird if you tell her you are. He gets his entire religion overthrown by a tree-man from a prison-world.
>In this case, what's not to say that the angels light beams aren't some manifestation or channelling or transformation of the dark soul?
It still makes no sense that the dark element is able to channel or transform into light as dark is literally the absence of light, so it would be self-destructive.

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>>170472463
>They don't want the end of fire, they just want you to eat the first flame

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>>170472124
>pic unrelated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGz_Zp3A4X0

>>170472520
Firebombs, manually aim at the ground in front of them

>>170472339
the original rumor came from one of the leak-anons

supposedly it has high dex scaling and unique R2s. it's possible it has Warcry for a weapon art given the two-handed yhorm attack that the harald Knight in the screenshot is doing

>>170472541
>It's also about disparity. That's the whole point of this world's existence, as stated in DS1's intro. Light and Dark are part of that disparity. They are the polar opposites that the world exists on.

that is absolutely 100% true

HOWEVER

did you ever stop to think that this disparity of light and dark would be within humanity itself?

nito himself is the disparity between life and death due to his very existence.

Bloodborne ruined DS3

>>170472510
Did you only read half my post or something?
http://mmdks.com/8k55 14 DEX, 246 damage
http://mmdks.com/8k56 40 DEX, 381 damage
How is that better than just throwing all those points into VIT so you become unkillable

>>170472763
You mean improved?

>>170472231
>hexdexers
But hexing in DS3 is 45/45 int/faith with Izalith catalyst and pyro flame casting affinity, great dregs, black flame orb and dark flame. It's not like a proper school of magic like in DS2.

>>170472595
You know what I mean. They don't want the flame to be extinguished, they want it absorbed. Hence they still need someone to reach the kiln which will be done through slaying the lords of cinder. So if they HAD to be classified as either extinguish the flame or not they'd be in the latter category so'pro' fire in a sense.

>>170472663
Any other juicy info from that leak?

>>170472763
No, Miyazaki ruined DaS3. He could have taken his time with the game and actually put some effort into it, but instead decided to just take the Bloodborne engine and directly port in Dark Souls resources.

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Do you know why they call it the Dark Soul? The Dark is normally something unknown, something to be feared. The Gods would have you believe that the Dark Soul is something wretched, depraved. But you should know, Dark is only part of what the Human Soul is capable of. It is just as capable of Light. Capable of good and justice without the need for Gods. Believe in your potential. Believe in the Human Soul.

>>170472690
I dunno man. I don't think light and dark are interchangeable. However, it does seem that the Londor religion combines elements of both light and dark. Though humanity has always been, at least in DS1 where the theme is more prominent, something aligned more closely with dark. Maybe the angels are something involving both, but then they are not, as the whole initial post of this argument implied, explicitly pro-dark (as in, fire going out, abyss everywhere).

On the other hand, the scholars of Lothric castle and the princes outright reject the flame. So the angellic faith cannot be led by the princes.

However, presuming the angels are linked to Londor, then the angellic faith would indeed be a heresy then, which would replace the way of white, but they would still be anti-prince since their religion would call for the prince's head.

>>170473282

We've only ever really been exposed to the monsters of the Dark and the problems it is capable of creating. But that's Human in general. The Dark is normally calm, serene, and on rare occasions capable of a flash of brilliance.

The disparity caused by the Fire, and the shape as antagonistic presence it inflicts on the Dark causes the worst in the Dark to be brought to the light. Just like war brings out the worst in people, it's not our natural state but the circumstances that force it out of us.

>>170472809
1. If you plan to duel, the meta is high enough that you can have enough vit without issue. vit also (like the other stat) has a soft cap. After 40 you start gaining progressively less hp. Normally, you'll rarely see a pvp build with more than 50 vit and that's an edge case
2. If you're low level invading, hitting the reqs and making a weapon elemental is the way to go
3. BSS is basically single stat and allows you to put points in int or fai. It's also great with buffs and dex raises cast speed
4. The way defenses work in souls, the less damage you do, the more % of it gets mitigated. 381 from 246 is TREMENDOUS

>>170473504
>circumstances that force it

Could that apply the other way round too? In an age of dark would a being of light, a being of flame be considered a monster and very dangerous by the darks inhabitants?

>>170473569
Oh wow, I only knew that split damage is bad for some reason, didn't know the damage numbers in relation to each other also lie to you
Thanks a lot for that info

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Is it a good Idea to quality a Murakumo?

>>170473679
Thatt is exactly why split damage is worse than pure damage of the same amount. Each of the splits is calculated separately, which leads to a much bigger mitigation total compared to pure

>>170473664

Depending on what it does, yes. If it is an antagonistic force then it might be. That said, perhaps Light and Dark can coexist. Maybe Fire needs to stop being a dick. Maybe this world might be able to be unfucked yet.

I never noticed how visually similar Artorias's armor is to Silver Knight armor. The gauntlets in particular are almost identical and the other parts seem like bits and pieces with some extra flair here and there.

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>clear out Snowy Mountain Pass, make my way into basement
>clean it up without much problem, open shortcut and unlock way to boss fight
>decide to finish off by killing Dunnel and then back to Firelink
>make it into Priscilla's arena, but took off Silvercat right before the final drop, take a bit of chip damage
>pick up loot and then go into equipment screen to equip some Blessed equipment and Sun Princess Ring because I don't want to waste Estus on that shit
>press circle one too many times, backstep off of the diving board and crater into Gravetender arena, dropping 50k souls in the process

There are times when I feel like a fucking god because I first-tried Champ or took only two attempts at Raime, and then there are times like this.

>>170473875

Well, he was one of the leaders of the knights.

>>170473904
>cirlce

Just press start.

>>170473805
While we're talking about this, stability on shields is also not linear, right? I'm not sure if I'm just imagining a 80 STAB shield taking way less stamina damage than a 70 STAB shield

>>170473875
I want to see what Artorias' armor looks like unsullied.
No doubt what we see of it is the battered remains of it after Manus has had its way with him, and all models are based on that since.

>>170473664
>Could that apply the other way round too? In an age of dark would a being of light, a being of flame be considered a monster and very dangerous by the darks inhabitants?
We have those:

Demons
Chaos Flame
Profaned Flame

Etc.

But curiously, some of the demons seem to serve the gods in Anor Londo.

>>170473504
The problem with the Sable Church's dogma is that they worship the darksign: a wound in the flesh that oozes humanity. They uphold hollows as "the true form of man", a dessiccated, maddened, diseased state. They are not something good and natural. This unholy mix of light and dark is something bizzarre and wrong.

>>170473664

Look at it this way. We went into the Dark Firelink, no? There weren't any abominations there. Gundyr was strong as hell and seemingly empowered by the Dark, but the monstrosity on his back never showed its face. Nothing down there did. Only where the Fire reaches does any bad Dark shit happen. Hell, even in the original Abyss it was only Manus, and he transformed as he created the Abyss. Everything on the outside became transformed, but within you basically had Humanity ghosts, and they were pretty docile, just doing what Dark does, seeking a life of their own.

>>170474261
There were bloathead enemies inside the Abyss, just for reference.

>>170474217

No, no, no. You misunderstand what a Hollow is. Hollow is not diseased or anything. Hollow was the original form that we had before we took souls. Just wooden people. They're not wrong. That said, they are basically run by whatever was told to them by Kaathe. Even they are misguided by a jewsnake. Light and Dark are not "unholy and wrong," just natural forces that can be used for good or evil, like Fire. It's common in many religions that Light and Dark are two halves of the same whole. Look at the Yin-Yang.

>>170474261
Yeah, but Andre and the Firekeeper died; and presumably so did all the others.

Is a world without best-bro and waifu, really worth living in?

>>170474349

They traveled there, clearly. The bloatheads were residents of Oolacile, an area of Fire, not pure creations.

>>170474083
Stability is basically "% stamina damage (from blocking/partial parrying) mitigation". A 90 stability shield will block using half the stamina used by an 80 stability shield blocking the same attack. 2handing a shield also increases stability by a bunch, but I don't know exactly how much