/rlg/ - Roguelike General

>>155122170
Source?

>>155122368
HoMM2 roguelike when

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2nd for add Kek on Demon.

>>155122860
Buried in the depths of a tumblr with infinite pages that updates daily, around six months ago.
Good luck

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>>155122368
The game pastas with updated Demon pasta:
http://pastebin.com/nXBycdgR

>>155123175
>he didn't just take a screenshot of the map by navigating it with X

eh, it's still good

How viable or not is getting statue form in a 3 rune as a chei troll?

>>155124397
everything is viable as a troll

D I C K E R Y

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It begins.

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Help, I'm really starting to like this character. I started it as a joke, so I immediately took the chance when I got some mutation consumables and ended up with antennae, +1 AC and +13% HP (which I found out really useful in a melee felid). I don't want him do die, any tips?

Also, I got a book named Fen Folio which contains Hydra Form and Summon Hydra. My character is not skilled in neither summoning nor transmutation, but felids have a +1 to transmutations. Which should I train? Should I train both?

>>155126847
Now cross your fingers and hope you don't get double tele trap entrances.

##crawl-dev is considering removing haste as both a spell and a wand.

That seems like a pretty big change.

>>155128949
lmao why

>>155129327
Because fuck you.

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>>155126847
In my opinion a line of Oklobs at the entrance is more fun than a fortress of oklobs, but that's just me.

>>155128949
https://sourceforge.net/p/crawl-ref/mailman/crawl-ref-discuss/

Basically because it's too strong an effect to have available to players at all times.

>>155128949

What was the discussion about in the con? Fixing the "Optimal player"?

>>155131167
>Lasty
Every god damned time.
I hope they realize this means they need to make post-end significantly less shitty. (They don't)

>>155122368
Just discovered this genre and im loving it, currently playing doomRL, anyone got any advice for me?

So far my best run made to level 3 of the demon base i think, died in the hole of spiders, fucking spiders everywhere!

>>155131167
I've never understood why that matters in a single-player game

>>155131965
don't forget that running is a thing

>>155132039
>balance is not important because it's single player
Just think about what you implied

>>155131965
doomrl tips:

you can shoot around corners that you can't see around. the game still plays a sound if you hit something so you'll know whether an enemy is there

most guns have an accuracy penalty for shooting shit you can't see, but shutguns never miss so they're great for this

>>155132262
>you can shoot around corners that you can't see around. the game still plays a sound if you hit something so you'll know whether an enemy is there
Yeah, figured that one yesterday.

>>155132176
I did notice enemies usually fire in the spot you where, so you can keep moving to dodge a few bullets easily.

>>155132660
no i mean you can change your stance to running for a speed boost

>>155132660
yeah that's a specific mechanic

running increases the chance to "dodge" like that, and there are also specific upgrades you can pick that increase the chance of enemies shooting at where you WERE instead of where you ARE

>>155132814
Oh, gonna check controls.

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NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
MY WAIFUUUUUUUU!!!!

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>>155133102

>>155128949
good

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>>155133541
I wasn't even allowed a sniff of her demonic cunt before she was taken away from me.
I miss her so fucking much already.

>>155131887
Actually not this time, it was Brannock (the guy behind dream sheep and the recent mass-renames of monsters who literally just got onto the devteam) who first brought the idea up.

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Don't you just love when this happens

fucking shit game

how am i gonna get a god now

>>155133541
Well this sure makes me not want to play TOME.

>>155134357
>playing old version
>not knowing what a secret door is

>>155133064
it's just tab

you can do it once and then you're "tired" until you go to the next level or use a healing item, at which point you can run again

it also makes you take half damage from floorlava

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That's a new one

>>155134901
What?

>>155133541
Are melee Oozemancers with mindstars viable or are they just a meme?

>>155135024
No ID by D:10, or at most 1 unidentified one

I also just found a jivya altar on D:11. I didn't know that was possible

>>155135256
It's totally possible.

>>155135290
That too.

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First 15 rune in over 2 years, second one ever

Mi really was easy mode, but at least now I have a full win as both a caster and melee. Damn those Shining Eyes in (M), one of them mutated me 5 times before I could kill it.

Hey guys, what do you call a Halfling in DCSS?

MiniMi

How do you guys not get bored by the time you finish lair,orc,swamp,spider/snek. I always find myself getting mind numbingly bored at that point

>>155136619
by playing games other than dcss

>>155136619
Because those are the worst branches. Everything's better after Vault/Crypt/Depths

>>155135726
why would you wear a +5str +6slaying ring that gives you rc-
it adds close to no damage and gives you a possibly fatal -resist.
when wielding a 2h at min delay that kind of shit belongs in lava

>>155136791
I often put Vaults:5 off not because my character can't survive it but because I don't want to get bored

Either you demolish everything immediately with AoE stuff or you grueingly single monsters and small groups until everything's empty

>>155136924
Didn't see any cold users after Cocytus. The orb run was extremely uneventful, nothing but red imps and one pan lord.

>>155137007
How do you single monsters out? Usually the stairs just get locked and you die.

>>155136619
>How do you guys not get bored by the time you finish lair
you do, after winning more than couple times in a period of a year or so.
by ten the best course of action is just to stop playing for a year and come back to see how much the devs have ruined the game in that amount of time.
i started up dcss after a long, long break a few weeks ago and after getting a few wins and a few deaths in extended it's just mind numbingly boring.

>>155136791
Nice joke, nigga.
The game is over after vaults/crypt/depths.
Or if you continue it gets boring again.

>>155136619
play a different game

>>155137337
>Hell is boring

If you watch someone else playing on Youtube maybe

>>155137242
>How do you single monsters out? Usually the stairs just get locked and you die.
if you have a few pips of stealth (2+), you can quite effectively run around the outer ring while peeping into the vaults and kill stuff in the fully walled sections/corners without alerting too many mobs
or if you get lucky you can get 1 of the vaults where you have a corridor or a killhole-type setup and just otab there and tele out when low, regen and repeat

>>155137432
hell is the most boring, most annoying piece of shit branch ever, especially in the newer versions.

>>155137537
>lol git gud rogulikes are not for casuals
Git gud means cheese the cheesey game in the , cheesiest ways possible

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twenty bucks the first one is nulife

>>155137881
Where the fuck did he say that

what roguelike should i play?

dcss gets really boring after valts/crypt/depths

>none of all those rings was slow digestion

Well, I haven't lost anything at least.

>>155138223
>giving a fuck about digestion
>not playing as mummy for NO FOOD playthrough

>>155138135
He didn't directly say that. I'm saying that I find it funny that roguelikes are considered difficult and for hardcore gamers when the way to beat the game is to use cheesey boring tactics
>walk away
>rock away
>one by one in hallway
>dance around pillar to regain health
>run up and down stairs

They're not difficult, they don't require skill, they require patience which never truly pays off, because when you win you feel like you've cheated all those pillars you've ran around all those enemies you cheesed.

>>155138203
dcss

>>155137432
Hell is certainly the least terrible of Abyss/Pan/Tomb/Hell, but Hell effects are just annoying and after you dive through six floors of annoying crap to the bottom you finally get the the only decent parts of post-end: The Hell branch end-vaults, which have only a very few variations, some of which are rather similar, and some of which are just terrible- Slowly emptying Dis 7 end vaults which are packed to the brim with monsters? It's like snake end all over again, except with Torment.

>>155138393
>polymorphing into a mummy
disgraceful.

>>155137881
>>155138441
You're an idiot.

>>155138441
I can tell from here you're using extremely arbitrary definitions of "difficulty" and "skill"

>>155138697
nice rebuttal. I'm not wrong you jackass.

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Ah, there we go.
The 1% chance.

>>155138747
You're in the roguelike general which implies you play roguelikes. So if roguelikes are easy, show us some proof to see what a supremely good player you are

>>155138567
>It's like snake end all over again, except with Torment.
more like
except with summoners summoning summoners and tormentors with hell effects tormenting you and summoning summoners and tormentors

>>155138747
You certainly are.
Roguelikes are not "for hardcore gamers" or "not for casuals". They're just games. You're pushing this idiotic ideal on them and then chastising them for not living up to your expectations.

When I win I don't feel like I've "cheated" or "cheesed" anything, I just played the game with the tools it gave me. I don't go into a roguelike with the expectation that it will give me "super-hardcore tactical gameplay" like you seem to, and thus am not disappointed when a turn-based RPG plays like a turn-based RPG.

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>>155139172
>not having lichform for post-end

>>155139172

No, it's not that bad at all. It's just annoying.

>>155139023
he has a point through.
dick soup requires barely any "skill"
it's literally just a game of patience, a game of choice between "will i play the risky way and possibly die" or "will i play patiently without pillardancing, pulling single enemies and cheesing near every floor and die of boredom by the time i get my first rune"
ofc you can play the 1st way until you run out of blinks/teles but then you just kill yourself irl because you realize you have to play the 2nd way until you find more.

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I got this.

>>155139513
>will i play patiently without pillardancing
meant to say
>will i play patiently by pillardancing...

>>155139513
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is not the only roguelike and most of that stuff he brought up only applies (in such a magnitude as to matter) to DCSS.

Really though, all you people who say DCSS doesn't require any skill have just played the game too long and it has become a roll-call of duties to attend to, so that it's easy, but you get bored and play stupid.
Play something else, post your 7 win streaks, >40k turn 15 runes, or shut up about it. It's getting really boring to hear about.

>>155135229
Oozemancers just use minstar mastery for the stat boosts. The actual fun mindstar melee class is Cursed.

>>155135229
The mindstar blades are just an insurance in case something gets too close.

You generally want to spam your spells as far away as possible

>>155140105

Especially when you can summon 4 shadows at once.

>>155139538

What game? Not sure if that's Dynahack or SLEX.

>>155140373
>mindstar melee as doomed
I haven't played since ~1.03, is that finally doable?

>>155140506
That's dynahack.
SLEX is colour vomit even without messing with the settings.

>>155139893
DCSS is the best roguelike ever created by (a) human being(s)
Other roguelikes are tryhard hipster garbage trying to cash in on the originality of rogue

>>155140580
Really painful in the beginning and even in mid-game but if you can get it rolling it's the best.

>>155131167
>I'd also love to get rid of the wand of heal wounds (sorry, DD)
>I want to remove a thing, thus rendering another thing worthless, so that needs to be removed as well
MEME MAGIC IS TOO STRONG

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This better be a fucking mimic

>>155140823
>Really painful beginning and midgame
That's basically any Afflicted run anyway.

>>155140768
Alright, but have you considered not shitposting?

>>155131167
>I don't think we should nerf further, but rather remove the

Now it is easy to see how everything up until this point has happened.

Maniac Mode y/n? On one hand, it does make the game harder. But I don't like the fact that Agi for most intents and purposes becomes a completely worthless stat if you play it.

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>the tale of the extremely slow retrieval of the heavy iron ball

I guess I'll call it a day, goodnight /rlg/

>>155138917
Is it finally your time to shine?

>>155142198
vaultless inhumane is the way to go imo.
goddess altar is a good part of the game and other than that, maniac doesnt do much other than make agi near worthless

>>155131167
>Bob-Bob Hardyoyo wrote
>A solid half of the low level spells are worthless crap
>> (Infusion, song of slaying, and spectral weapon)
Oh boy, baddie alert. In what insane world is +9 or more slay crap? It's obscene if you're using a ranged weapon too.

>>155143470
Song of Slaying is not going to get that high that often and makes a shitload of noise.

You should have instead criticized him for saying that Finesse 2: Electric Battleaxe Boogaloo is bad.

>>155143970
I skimmed.I regularly did and just dieseled through with regen, song, shroud, haste, slaying

>>155138441
You say "roguelikes" but you mean DCSS, and even then there is a bit more to the strategy than cheese.

>Find out there's been a new Gearhead update since I thought it died.
>One of the things added was 'updated romance and gender options'
Uh oh.

>>155144669
>and even then there is a bit more to the strategy than cheese.
oh yeah he forgot to mention xv every monster and then cheese if they're a threat.

>>155129327
Because devs are on sacred quest of removing everything that is even remotely funny in DCSS

>>155128949
Just make it contam like invis, gg

>>155145449
It already does.

Honestly, the best way to not get bored of DCSS is to make sure your runs don't go higher than 7 runes

>>155145537
It does? Well shit, i guess it doesnt on 0.15

Are there any roguelikes in which you can play as a harpy?

>>155146181
Elona, but you don't have any special harpy-esque abilities

>>155145585
>don't go higher than 7 runes
i think you meant
>skip lair and orc and dive pan asap.

>>155143220
I like Altar a lot better the way it is in MC, the original "pick any stat and boost it as many times as you like" altar was completely gamebreaking.

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>walk up to a tax collector
>step on an invisible land mine
>the tax collector explodes
>bounty on my head, surrounded by pissed off guards
whack and warp, you're my only hope

>>155131167
>https://sourceforge.net/p/crawl-ref/mailman/crawl-ref-discuss/
Removing haste is a conversation going back YEARS, and it hasn't happened yet.

DCSS is a prime example of why design-by-committee produces bland and uninspired output.

>>155146840
>Terrain SEX
Did the earth move for you, baby?

>>155146986
>DCSS is a prime example of why design-by-committee produces bland and uninspired output.
I can't hear you over the user count

>>155147325
>I can't hear you over the user count
Surely, those tens of math nerds that still play the game must be enthralled.

>volume displayed in liters in inventory
>milliliters in pickup
>the old way for vehicles
Just pick one already

>>155146986
crawl needs a BDFL badly, unfortunately the most likely candidates wouldn't be good

>>155147647
*tips skullcap*
Ya dem fucking nerds man, HUR HUR HUR
They should get fucking LAID instead of playing they shitty beeps and motherfucking boops man.

>>155147851
Hit a nerve?

>>155147804
WTB kilobyte as crawl CEO.

>>155148041
It's just that your argument is pure shit.
>nerds play it
Nerds are 99.9% of non-terrible roguelike players.

>>155148187
also 99.9% of terrible roguelike players, they are games for nerds

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>>155148187
>Nerds are 99.9% of non-terrible roguelike players.
>>155148667
>also 99.9% of terrible roguelike players, they are games for nerds

>>155146840
>wasn't night so I couldn't Whack and Warp away
>had to slaughter my way out, Wanted Level 23
>can't talk to Duke Galtz until the level drops
>it'll be 2000km before that happens
h-help

>>155148890
No, this is your life now. They will hate you but you must save the world. Go, Dark Bandito Snickersnack. Be the anti-hero of this story.

>>155149086
But I can't kill the Demon Lord until Duke Galtz tells me where he is, and I can't talk to Duke Galtz until I'm no longer an anti-hero!

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What sword should i use?

>>155149339
the great sword does the most damage

>>155149339
either demon blade or great sword, depends on your long blades and necro skill

>>155149263
Damnit snickersnatch, I'd have your adventurer certificate on my desk by noon but you're just too damn good.

>>155149339
Greatsword until you find any kind of shield or if your necro skill is 0

>>155148187
>0.18 tournament results: 75764 (2816 players)
>0.17 tournament results: 87997 (2897 players)
>0.16 tournament results: 97847 (2852 players)
>0.15: 64039 (2380 players)
>0.14: 62592 (2334 players)
>0.13: 54268 (1790 players)
>0.12: 50350 (1782 players)

DCSS is a 10 year old fork of a 19 year old game. It suffers from severe interface problems, an aging codebase strapped together by wrapper functions inside of wrapper functions, originally written by Linley as a vehicle to learn C, graphics that are neato by roguelike standards but utter shit compared to even the worst Unity engine shovelware, and bloated, often conflicting, mechanics shoehorned in without direction because they were pet projects of someone with commit rights.

Its highest peak account participation during tournaments was under 3k, and user participation has been declining for the last 3 tournaments, first in terms of games played, then in terms of unique users. That sub-3k unique peak includes alternate accounts such as robins and bots, of which the existing longterm playerbase is known to have several.

As much as it's a thread meme that the game is dead, it never really had much following to begin with, and its user participation is declining. The only people left, as exemplified by tavern threads, irc chat, and webtiles chat, are nigh-universally math nerds. Deal with it.

>>155149481
I have long blades at 18,what is necro skill useful for?

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It's been a while anons, and i decided to bring back my Octodragon into Trunk.
Anyway, while surely luck saved my ass tons of times and while i'm still not very good despite my megazigging with the Octodragon, i've also played it safe like a little bitch, and this looks like a reward from the RNG for not being a tablord.
>Take a literal hour to kite Lair 6 full of Death Yaks and Hydras
>risked death 4 times by that single attack who went through my 36 EV in spider form, but 1 AC
>Finally kill them all
>Explore more
>Spriggan forest
>Oh god why
>risked death 2 more times by kiting and being spear fucked by those riders
>Reach the end of the floor forest
>Scroll of Acquirement
>Tempted to play roulette for Wand, decide to play it safe and wish for gold to fund a jewelry shop
>This happy merchant in pic related
Seriously, is there a better selection of jewels for an octopode?

>>155149910
pain does 1d<necro skill> per hit, it's only good if you have enough necro skill for this to be useful

>>155149850
i'd imagine most people play offline. i took a break between 0.14 and 0.18, was there anything special that drew people for 0.16?

it's a shame the crawl codebase is such a mess. it makes dramatic forks too much of a burden to create

>>155150028
You do know that gozag has been severely nerfed right? You won't be able to zig as much as you used to

>>155150540
>it's a shame the crawl codebase is such a mess. it makes dramatic forks too much of a burden to create
And of course the devs will never try to unfuck the code base, because then they might not have a monopoly on crawl anymore, and people might not put up with their retarded shit anymore.

>>155150606
What? How?

>>155149850
But does any other roguelike even have comparable numbers?

Maybe nethack, for also having online tournaments, being around since literally forever and attracting similar players (autists).

>>155150772
i doubt it's out of malice. it would be an absolute massive undertaking in terms of labor and community politics, too much to hope for volunteers

>>155150540
>i'd imagine most people play offline.
Yes, they do. There were multiple surveys run, although those are several years old now. Even if you're generous and multiply those numbers by 10 to include offline players, though, it's still a vanishingly tiny userbase. Remember also, those aren't daily numbers, that's aggregate over a 2-3 week period (or however long each tournament ran.) Ain't NOBODY playing this game except for the diehards, as should have been blindingly obvious by the decrease in ontopic thread posts over the last several versions.

>>155150892
if you count commercial games, mystery dungeon series
if you count rougelites, a lot of games

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>>155151031
>counting shill games
>counting rougelites

>>155151031
>>155151221
also if you count dwarf fortress, dwarf fortress

>>155150949
I wish they'd just say to hell with balance and throw in all sorts of crazy shit, whatever they can think of.

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Someone asked for this last thread

>>155151694
i don't. that's how you end up with garbage like SLEX, CDDA, etc

>>155142198
I hate it.

>>155146840
Man, if they somehow died in the original, couldn't you just walk past?

>>155150853
He's lying.

>>155150606
Not nerfed nearly enough. Can prove if you want to watch me play now: I have a Gozag character in a zig.

>>155151871
>Not nerfed nearly enough. Can prove if you want to watch me play now: I have a Gozag character in a zig.
you can't say that without posting the server so we can make fun of you when you die

THIS THING IS GOOD FOR THE PLAYER
LETS REMOVE IT
DESPITE IT ONLY DROPPING ONCE EVERY 4 GAMES

>>155152318
Almost as dumb as the dev team.

>deep dwarves are going to be replaced with mountain dwarves
are we HYPE?

>>155151854
It may be because I triggered the mine; it might have considered the damage to be sourced from me.

I was almost free of the Wanted status when I ran into another border wall and the guards chased me forever, even after I blasted through the walls and Force Bridged through the mountains. I threw all my Ivy to try to slow them, but they caught up and killed Nami anyway, so I slaughtered them all.

Then I hit the End of the East at 4000k and that's that.

>>155152697
that would be terrible

>>155152697
>was just talking to a friend two days ago about how pissed I was that Dwarves were removed
>LOL BUT THERE ARE DEEP DWARVES
>fuck you I want to be a Dwarf who can regenerate

>>155152191
http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/casual/casual.txt
Not that likely by this point.

crawl needs more challenge races tbqth

>>155153010
if any luck, 0.19 will bring us new hasteless mummy

formicids were a good start, gimmick races are fun, they need to re-add djinn and lava orcs

>>155152896
Nobody likes those no good troglodytes.

>>155152896
dwarf race built around heavy armor, earth magic, conjurations when

>>155152791
Oh, that might be it. Triggering land mines and killing enemies from that does give you EXP, from what I've seen.

>>155150892
>But does any other roguelike even have comparable numbers?
I have no idea about the accuracy of SteamSpy's numbers, but it shows ToME4 as having similar numbers over the last 2 weeks, and that presumably only tracks the steam version of the client.
https://steamdb.info/app/259680/graphs/

The steam release of One Way Heroics appears to have more persistent users than DCSS:
https://steamdb.info/app/266210/graphs/

Mystery Chronicle is less than 1 week old with a review score of 69% positive, and already has more users than DCSS:
https://steamdb.info/app/266210/graphs/

The steam release of ADOM also appears to be close, although with slightly fewer users:
https://steamdb.info/app/333300/graphs/

Even Caves of Qud isn't that far behind, considering how few users we're talking about here.
https://steamdb.info/app/333640/graphs/

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Absolutely fucking retarded.

>>155154002
>69% positive
>check it out
>every negative review is NOT MUH 60 FPS
i don't

>>155154506
People who don't play roguelikes have strange priorities indeed.

>>155154307
>interesting choices
>muh resources
>muh overpowered playerfast
Seriously fuck these autists for ruining crawl.

>>155153358
And warhammers.
OH WAIT

>>155154689
if haste was currently a potion only, would you vote to add it as a player spell or wand? i wouldn't, for the same reasons i wouldn't for might or agility

>>155154738
remove whips from m&f entirely, make an entire weapon class work basically like dark maul (but usable)

>>155154786
Every potion should have a wand version. Degenerate enemies into Abominations! Mutate yourself! Zap the wand of experience!

>>155154506
Well, you can't put too much stock in steam reviews, good or bad. There's just too much noise. Aside from the trading game keys for reviews fiasco that was recently quashed, devs and publishers have been straight up buying positive reviews for years now. You see some user pushback from that, and people leaving joke reviews that have nothing to do with the title. It's a rough indicator at best, even titles with overwhelmingly positive are sometimes not very good, but have managed to appeal to a niche demographic.

With that said, the PC release of Mystery Chronicle looks like a shitshow port with crash reports everywhere.

>>155154786
That's the thing: elliptic's idea is good, reasonable and simple- using !Haste which is already in the game. Lasty's reasons for disagreeing with it are retarded.

>oh I might hit a new haste ability refresh soon
>lol better use this haste meaninglessly
>boy that sure was an interesting choice I just made there

Not to mention it's using the same shitty XP timers that the elemental invokers used and has REALLY WEIRD interactions with Chei.

>>155155109
Apparently the crashes are all fixed. The only remaining issues are the 30 FPS cap (meaningless) and the occasional step delay, which is supposedly the animations of off-screen enemies completing (if they attack something, get hit by a trap, have a double movement, etc). I suppose a lack of key rebinds is another thing.

>>155154002
>Mystery Chronicle is less than 1 week old with a review score of 69% positive, and already has more users than DCSS:
>https://steamdb.info/app/266210/graphs/
Wrong app?

>>155155104
>Degenerate enemies into Abominations!
you're memeing but i kind of like this idea

>Mutate yourself! Zap the wand of experience!
rip pakellas

>>155155151
i assumed you were whining about them axing haste spell/wand. i also like elliptic's solution better, if it's even necessary (they should just remove it with no compensation)

>>155155287
Oops.
https://steamdb.info/app/409000/

>>155155272
>Apparently the crashes are all fixed.
They aren't, it's still crashing in the current version. I have been waiting to refund the game to see if the crashes were fixed, because I actually wanted to play it. ;_;

>>155155151
Or maybe the game doesn't need this convoluted "elegant design" faggotry and just needs to be a fantasy roguelike with spells and potions and stuff.

If player haste gets removed, it's only fair that monsters lose it as well

>>155155550
just play nethack.

>>155155569
nope. the game doesn't need to be made easier

>>155154307
>xp timeout
I defend many Crawl dev choices, but xp timeouts are a terrible idea that should have died long ago.

Giving something like haste as an ability to every race is dumb and stupid and doesnt fit anything crawl has done so far
If anything give it to a god

>>155155151
Your haste cooldown doenst start until you use it
So if you never use it you will never get another one
Which means you have to use it in suboptimal situations because otherwise it just sits around

>>155155527
>They aren't, it's still crashing in the current version

Are you one of the guys without DX11?

>>155155619
give magic-haste (conj only) to a reformed vehumet as a counterpart to okawaru

god of sanic would be bad because it either be the god of kiting or play a lot like usk... maybe give it to him?

>>155155812
>him

>>155155550
That shit is the opposite of elegant design, anon.

>>155155846
ban all tummyposters

>>155155527
>still crashing
I feel sorry for you, bro. I'll let you borrow my copy of Windows Vista, works fine here.

>>155155776
No.

Do ants get the haste

>>155155476
I'm generally ambivalent about the dev's decisions. Aside from Lasty whom I despise.

The main issue with dunking /Haste and spellHaste is in areas of the game which I almost never play (extended with extremely limited haste is probably going to suck).
>>155155550
We already have half a dozen of those, it's a poor argument against changing DCSS.

What exactly is the problem
The removal or the addition of the base ability?

>>155156253
Do we have a half dozen with remotely the same amount of content?

>>155155962
tum tum

>>155156372
nethack + variants, angband + variants, adom...

>>155156372
Probably seeing how shit soup keeps removing all of it's own.

>>155156451
But they don't actually have remotely the same amount of content.

Doesn't the need to add an emergency ability like Haste to every character prove that something with the current crawl design went wrong?

>>155156367
Lasty is a fucking hack.

The ability uses XP timers (hacks), is unnecessarily complicated, and probably entirely unnecessary.

The removal of the (semi)renewable haste sources can't be judged until we can play it.

>>155155476
>you're memeing but i kind of like this idea
well you'll be glad to know that cigotuvi's degeneration USED to be a spell but was removed

>>155156253
post could use a difficulty bump.

>>155156534
they have far more content, especially some of the forks. whether or not it's good content...

>>155156712
Difficulty bump but decreased tedium

>>155155767
that's retarded reasoning

>>155156787
that's a separate issue and there are way better ways to do that than keeping haste

>>155156712
No idea what forks you're talking about. All the ones I've played have had less content. Hell, most of them are just broken. In the "This doesn't even work." sense.

How the fuck is stockpiling bad?
Its an entirely player driven choice and its not even an optimal one

>>155156963
>its not even an optimal one
yes it is

>>155150853
they didn't nerf gozag in general but they did significantly nerf the effect of gold distraction when there's massive amounts of gold going on

pre-nerf gozag could perma-paralyze zigs with all the killgold

>>155152697
>unique race being replaced with "minotaur but different flavor"
wow sounds great

seriously who gives a fuck about flavor/backstory in a roguelike

>>155154506
The way the game runs there are times where it feels a lot worse than 30FPS, though I'm playing a pirated 1.0.0 release so they might have patched it.

The real clowns are the ones complaining about undetectable traps when the traps are all easy to play around.

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>roll a gargoyle ice elementist
>find a great randart spear
>eventually convert to tabber with buffs and iron shot
>roll through spider and swamp with demon electrowhip and buckler of reflection
>enter V1
>3 vault wardens with yaktaur company
>door sealed
>die before tele goes off with my 41ac

RNGJesus why???
I've seen the occasional warden on V1-4, but 3 at the entrance?

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Good thing I have the recipe saved on my tablet in case I forget what I need to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

>>155156668
i forgot about that spell. i don't remember using it much

>>155157271
>not using fog
>not shotting iron at warden

>>155157225
crawl was the only game where i could roleplay as my spirit race, sludge elves. DEVS FIX THIS

How about haste now gives 2x speed, and makes a 3d5 fireball-like noisy magical explosion on the user for every turn spent hasted. Haste length is determined by spellpower as usual but can be deactivated on the abilities screen.

Level 6 air/transmutation spell.

>>155157229
That's probably the off-screen animation stutter. I don't know that there's anything they can do about that short of making the loaded area smaller.

And yeah, I've never had traps be a problem yet. It would be nice if ID% influenced trap detection so you could conceivably see them without swinging your weapon every step.

>>155157537
haste but you can't cancel it, spellpower makes it *shorter* and it acts like the obsidian axe, also you are 3x vulnerable to ranged weapons and you randomly drop your weapon 1/5 turns and can't pick it up again (hope you stockpiled weapons)

>>155148890
There's temples that let you donate to reduce your wanted level, up to 12k for 22 wanted and 5 poaching level. Hope to run into one of those.

>>155157409
>kill 1 warden
>still 2 left
I could have played it better but still would probably die

>>155157225
DD cant work without heal wounds
Heal wounds will be removed
So the logical choice is to rename them into mountain dwarfs

Does anyone know a Roguelike similar to Final Fantasy in terms of aesthetics, sound, and gameplay?

Roguelike like Final Fantasy V?

It's kind of amusing that the original OWH has more players than DCSS.

https://steamspy.com/app/266210

Way to go, solo japanese dev.

>>155157616
>ID%
Speaking of which, the one thing I do hate is how absurdly rare ID sources are in this game. Getting 1-2 sources in 1km is absolutely absurd.

>>155157879
And yeah, ToME4 has more users than DCSS too.

https://steamspy.com/app/259680

>>155157876
Nope.

>>155157537
you mean poison right
because poison is shit and needs a buff

>>155158105
>Playtime total: 29:55 (average) 04:15 (median)
so 50% of those users playes less than 4minutes

>>155157879
Japanese roguelike devs are based as hell. Also that's probably not all of them, since the japanese version is free from the dev's site.

>>155157876
Uh, the closest in terms of aesthetics and moving around on a worldmap you're going to get right now is Mystery Chronicle: One Way Heroics. There's not much FF-y about it beyond that, or anything else particularly close.

Just flip through this a bit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZIGuGRChUY

>>155157743
Haste but you can't cancel it, it summons 5 durable hostile air elementals, AND you move randomly every turn as if stuck inside a tornado, AND it drains you into red, AND you gain 30 EV for the duration of the spell.

The Japanese are the greatest race on this planet. I wish a Japanese bull would cuck me and fuck my wife while I play Japanese roguelikes alone

>>155158284
>so 50% of those users playes less than 4minutes
The crawldevs are counting users with 0 wins and 1 splat in their tournament stats, so it probably evens out.

What if haste would drain you for every turn
Plus a chance to be confused every turn

>>155158019
>playing Astrologian
>six fucking Appraisers in a row
It'd be really nice if the base Appraise rate wasn't 0%, or if it rolled multiple times for various levels of identification (item type, durability, enchantment).

Like, who are these characters that use swords all day and can't tell a Fighting Knife from a Broadsword but have no problem with categorizing 30 different kinds of plants and strange potions?

scroll of genocide dev: recompiles the game without any commits from the email of your choice. 6* nemelex capstone gift, one use only

>>155158284
>w-whoa, what are all these stats and skills? I just want to hit something with a sword

>>155158297
That fucker hacked his own engine and development kit out of RPG Maker or something. It's crazy. It had internet connectivity too, which is bizarre, but also present in Elona. I don't know how they do it with RPG Maker shit.

>>155158524
I would paypal USD $100 to play that version of the game.

First genocide: DracoOmega

>>155158642
>Not linley to be free forever

>>155147325
I don't know if you noticed anon but roguelikes are a extremely niche genre. Crawl is unique in being old, accessible, long and having a lot of replay value among roguelikes, so it is popular

>>155157879
Another (indirect) metric is the number of upvotes DCSS update posts on the r/Games subleddit received. Used to be 200+, but now they're stuck in the double digits.

Is rF+++ rC+ AC+3 worth -3 slaying as a unarmed dude? I don't even use transmutations

>>155158819
>Niche
>150k and 400k owners on steam

>>155157229
>The real clowns are the ones complaining about undetectable traps when the traps are all easy to play around.

You play around them by never having flammable items in your inventory, ever, Landmines instantly kill any companions you might have, literally doing 100% of their max health and not a flat value.

>>155159289
I stepped on a landmine that did 650 damage to a nearby enemy and it did about 40 to one of my three companions and nothing to anyone else. I'm not sure how all of that is calculated but I can honestly say I've never had a party member die from a mine.

>>155158594
There's actually a fair number of indie H-JRPGs that use the Wolf Editor too.

>>155159208
What games are you talking about, first of all?

Second, nobody with a large library actively plays all of his games. I'm going to bet most games only get played for a few minutes by the majority of users. 400k people isn't even that many on the first place. If you're talking about OWH, costing literally cents and being on sale all the fucking time helps

>>155159389
I might be messing up the terminology, but I meant the people following you around take 100% maximum HP as damage from landmines.

The ones that aren't in your actual party, so things like packhorses, hired help, brainwashed enemies, etc.

Landmines do percentile damage to you and actual party members.

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NEW DEMON IS OUT: http://demon.ferretdev.org/devblog/

>>155159719
OH SHIT

>>155159192
Yes

>>155157616
>I don't know that there's anything they can do about that short of making the loaded area smaller.

you mean aside from the obvious solution of checking whether something's on screen before playing its animatoin?

>>155159719
shit son

>>155157837
they would just get removed

the devs will never add mountain dwarves back,at least not in their "minotaurs but with beards and scottish accents" form

>>155160167
Why did mdwarves get removed in the first place? Clearly they occupy the same niche as minotaurs, but clearly they're also more cool and neat and interesting than minotaurs. So why remove mdwarves and not minotaurs?

>>155160274
>generic dwarfs
>more interesting than minotaurs
lol nope

>>155160274
minotaurs are cooler

>>155160274
because not everyone agrees with you

devteam felt mi were more interesting than dorfs, and they're probably right
at least minotaurs aren't a generic "all fantasy should copy directly from Tolkien" race

>>155160361
>generic cow furries
>More interesting than dwarves
lol nope

why don't they let dwarves tunnel like formicids

>>155160414
They should have made them different, instead of removing.

Maybe a permanent discount in shops, or the ability to forge artifacts to your specifications at certains XLs.

>>155159719
>visiting the new Vikhor Sanctum
>every enemy is level 3
>WILD CURSED KITSUNE APPEARS
>level 11
w e w

>>155160784
i mean if you come up for an interesting dorf-based species proposal and get someone to code it for you maybe it'll get into the game

it's open-source after all

>>155160414
>>155160374
>>155160361
The general public clearly finds dwarves more interesting than minotaurs, as can be seen by the thousands of media featuring or referencing them, something which is not the case for "literally a large man but with bull head."

>>155157879
OWH
>Unique players in the last two weeks: 3419
Unaccounted for:
>Playism.jp owners who didn't use their steam keys
>People who got it straight from smokingwolf

>>155158105
ToME4
>Unique players in the last two weeks: 2768
Unaccounted for: People who downloaded from te4.org

From Sequell- See:
!lg * fortnight x=cdist(name)
DCSS
>Unique Players in the last two weeks: 2954
Unaccounted for: Offline players

So they're all about equal, with OWH having a slight edge on the other two from steam numbers alone(note, OWH+ is counted as DLC for OWH on steam).

For a very niche genre of single-player games, >3000 players over 2 weeks is a very decent amount. I think all three games are good and healthy. I don't really get this argument.

>>155160792
Superior Japanese fox, folded a million times

>>155157876
there's some goon in the SA roguelikes thread that made a randomly generated roguelike FF game i think

the only people who played it called it shit though

>>155160274
>Why did mdwarves get removed in the first place?

>>155160414
>because not everyone agrees with you

Let's be real here, the reason is that dpeg has a fetish for two things: "Nontraditional" lore flavour, and exercising domineering behaviour over anyone foolish enough to engage with him.

Dude straight up got off on the idea of picking the most popular race and striking it from the books, just to send a message.

>>155160973
what if all 3 are played by the same 3000 people

MD were much more magically apt than minotaurs
It would be more resonable to compare them to Hill Orcs, Formicids or Tengu
With the latter 2 beating MDs in every regard designwise

>>155161269
That would be very silly indeed, anon.

>>155161381
>generic orcs
>bug furries
>bird furries
Gimme my fucking beard furries already.

>>155157876
>>155161218
found the link
https://rpgmaker.net/games/8399/

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>>155161007
how can gaijin even compete?

>>155159652
If that's the case it's probably to make up for ally NPCs being OP as hell.

>>155161610
>can't swim or climb mountains (without a rare-ass and expensive scroll)
>won't even path next to you to attack something you've been swinging at for 10 rounds

>>155161556
>red cap
>clearly a green cap
What is this insanity

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Okay I need some help

>>155161556
Cursed is awful though.

>>155161725
I think i broke the game.

>>155161865
Yeah, but the kitsune stats are brutal as fuck.

>>155161769
Tele > Curing > y/7 > j/8 > g > .

Curing > Slouch > Slouch > Curing > Slouch > Slouch > Tremors

Curing > Step From Time

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This is the true way to play demon.

>>155161610
I've yet to go on any long runs yet, but everyone is saying that past 2000km, literally any mob will oneshot your party members in addition to them not doing shit.

>>155162202
Tried the first, tele kicked in before I could grab the rune. I'm now trying to kill the shit that came out of the vault while hearing lerny destroy all the trees on the level. Hope I can eventually just quaff flight and grab the rune. I guess the situation could be worse but I wish I had identified might

>>155160973
>For a very niche genre of single-player games, >3000 players over 2 weeks is a very decent amount. I think all three games are good and healthy. I don't really get this argument.

The original point was intended to be twofold:
1) DCSS doesn't possess some kind of numeric superiority in active playerbase when compared with other genre examples that we are able to pull numbers for, its numbers appear to be both falling and lower than contemporaries.
2) A game with a solo dev looks like it has attracted more active players than the consensus DCSS committee approach. (5231 uniques / 2 wk recent peak OWH, vs 2816 nonuniques / 0.18 DCSS tournament duration)

This is maybe a bit noteworthy when considering things like Haste and Hunger and how the DCSS team often fails in pushing through basic mechanical changes that are often agreed would be fundamental improvements, because they can't agree on an approach, when a solo dev could hack out a solution in hours. I suppose the argument is that the 'Stone Soup' part of DCSS seems to be holding the project back, perhaps in large part because each dev has their own notion of what the game should be, and the consensus implementation inevitably falls somewhere between that notion and what Linley's originally was.


None of this changes anything about the development process of any of the games being discussed, so it's all rather moot, but at least a little bit interesting.

>>155160973
keep in mind OWH+ also just came out. offline dcss vs te4.org version is harder to compare; it could go either way

While we're on the subject of ally NPCs, what are the best things that I should charm with my half-beast? Ranged and/or flying things come to mind.

>>155162603
Okay, splatted, I'm glad it's over. It had turned into resting, creeping slightly closer to the stairs and then using step from time when lerny inevitably found me. If not for not having rpois I could have just tabbed it, but swamp drakes kept getting on the way

Huh. MC OWH doesn't have the Boss clock.

>>155162914
What can you do, brainwash enemies?

>>155163134
>swamp rune without rpois
why

I love the new slime sprites on Demon, they are cute as fuck.

>>155163235
They get what I assume is a single free brainwash as a level-up bonus.

Although the flavor text is slightly different. Brainwashing says "doesn't work on certain monsters" while Half-Beast's ability says "does not work on bosses", so there may be some more flexibility. I haven't experimented much with either one.

>>155163272
There literally wasn't any rpois in the whole run except for an artifact robe in a shop

>>155122368
>take a look at the pastebin
>feel lost because there are too many options

Is Nethack a good game for a beginner or should I start with Brogue/Infra Arcana, as the pastebin suggests?
I know it's a stupid question

>>155163326
post pic

>>155160792
>new Vikhor Sanctum
jesus christ, are there huge packs of modified raichos zooming around in there? at least it'll be easier to avoid Vikhor now

>>155163904
Any is fine, except dung crap: shit stew

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>can't get Frieda in Mystery Chronicle

>>155163904
brogue is the best bet IMO

nethack is tricky as a first game unless you want to spend more time looking shit up in wikis than actually playing

Is there a way to make Brawler's lategame not complete shit, or is it an inevitability of unarmed/fist weapons?

>>155163904
Brogue is a very good game, but it's also tightly designed. It probably doesn't make for the best genre introduction.

Nethack was the genre standard for a long time: Many oldschool players love it, but it's also a bit meandering.

My suggestion would be to try DoomRL.

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>>155164048
I remember there being some low level Anomaly lads, like the angry cloud and the giant lifegiver smug face

>>155162682
>5231 uniques / 2 wk recent peak OWH, vs 2816 nonuniques / 0.18 DCSS tournament duration
I really disagree with this comparison. We have the 2week data (peak 2weeks makes no sense esp. since OWH players jumped as MC:OWH was released) for DCSS and OWH, as quoted in my post.

I'm not defending DCSS or its dev-team, I just dislike the metric upon which you are evaluating the 2 games' relative player bases.

>>155162845
OWH+ came out a long time ago.
MC:OWH is what just came out and is not what we are looking at, numbers after platform release are always higher than when they settle down.
The steamspy numbers for MC:OWH are here and totally unreliable until the game has been out at least 2 weeks.
http://steamspy.com/app/409000

>>155164375
Doesn't the AOE grapple slam scale with strength? Try putting on some +size mod items and using that.

>>155163904
brogue. it's straightforward, well desinged and has a good interface

>>155163904
Nethack is both barebones and exceptionally crafted. There is a lot of content for a newcomer to the genre, but it's actually the right amount.
One of the complains i hear most frequently is that it doesn't give you enough information, but i think that it's a good thing. Learning things on your own by experimenting is much more effective than simply looking it up, and teaches good habits on planning your short, medium and longterm goals

That said, it absolutely CAN be too much for you, especially if you're not used to the genre's controls, so think about trying something a bit easier to understand. I suggest Pixel Dungeon if you have an android device to have an idea of what you'll end up playing, or DoomRL for something light and easy to get into

>>155164475
>I really disagree with this comparison. We have the 2week data (peak 2weeks makes no sense esp. since OWH players jumped as MC:OWH was released) for DCSS and OWH, as quoted in my post.
Well, I was just trying to compare peak player interest.

You're right, it's not the best comparison. The numbers are there to draw your own conclusions.

>>155164149
>>155164261
>>155164393
>>155164614
>>155164659
Thanks guys, have your (You)s. I decided to download DoomRL and Infra Arcana, since I enjoy that kind of setting.

>>155164659
>Nethack
>barebones
Come on now, let's not lie to the newfriend.

>>155164796
fuck those games, play the slimy lichmummy

>>155164796
Good choices.
>>155165018
>enjoy those games, then play the slimy lichmummy
ftfy

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>>155164509
If these were as strong as ToME 4 Brawlers I wouldn't be having this issue, anon.

>>155165170
This is Mystery Chronicle? I guess the fists just don't do enough damage?

>>155165170
Do fist weapons suck at late game? Aura fists at the beginning seem pretty damn strong.

>>155165170
Wow, she is not wearing much on her torso.

>>155164924
Compared to Sil/Angband/*hacks/*bands/CDDA/IVAN/OWH/ToME/ADOM it does have a somewhat limited amount of content, but given the game's design and lenght it works wonders. There are enough items/levels/mobs for the entirety of a run, so that every point of it feels different.
Of course, it being my first, i can't help being a bit of a fanboy, but there are so many design choices that i can't help but feel should be adopted by others as well. Thankfully most don't, so we don't end up with all games playing the same

>>155165565
She is technically wearing more armor than the guy on her right, while looking more naked than him. It's incredible

>>155165337
Fists are invariably high combo/crit and low damage, the best one I've seen (Aura Fist) is +120% combo +80% crit but only 4 base damage.

They're great for earlygame and beating Alma because of high combo and efficient damage, but against lategame enemies with good defense they're horrible, and Brawler's kit does very little to address that. I usually end up having to switch to an Axe to kill things like Living Armor and Dullahan even though Brawlers only do like 0.65x damage with them and 1.6x damage with fist weapons.

>>155165713
I suppose it is just the ridiculously short skirt fooling me.

>>155166149
that's not a skirt you philistine

>>155165170
is that a fucking furry on the right

can someone enlighten me on how to play demon
i always end up getting option paralysis and splatting

>>155165713
The huge muscles are arguably more defense than a thin strip of cloth.

>>155166345
I don't know the name of the outfit, so I just called the portion which covered her upper thighs and groin the "skirt", you pedant.

>>155166423
It's dda-style kevlar-padded item.

You can tell because they have the DDA character on the right.

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>>155166345
I'm guessing they decided to increase the number of beastpeople in the remake because of Dosey's popularity.

>>155166697
>half-beast
>literally just ears
Fucking jewish degeneracy

hey /rlg/, do you enjoy any game outside of the roguelike circle?

>>155166839
corruption of champions

>>155166403
You just need better threat assessment
Run away from anything that looks threatening, using your demons as decoys so you can get out of LOS, then desummon them
If you can't run for some reason, focus fire and spam consumables to burst one demon down at a time I guess

>>155166581
>kevlar
>having any kind of encumbering equipment as an unarmed fighter
What the hell did DDA devs do?

>>155166839
I don't enjoy any game

>>155166839
Korean grinding simulators
TF2
Monster Hunter
(Grand) Strategy games

>>155166697
I hate when they make kemomimi furry halfbreeds. Makes them and the method of producing them disgusting.

>>155166839
Of course.

>>155164375
Brawlers are fucking awesome, at least on normal. Rush+giant leap obliterates any ranged threat.

Does anyone know if you can collect traps that you've uncovered in MC OWH? One of the opening texts seems to imply that you can, but I can't seem to find anyway to do so.

>>155166962
>not wanting to be a kevlar-reinforced knight punching shit out with your tacticool gloves
omg wtf bbq senpai

>>155142726
I guess you picked it up to run away and you died?

Sorry for you. Good night!

>>155167164
There's a class that makes them, I haven't seen anything about disarming though.

How do I stop taking anything other than full Strength bonuses in OWH? +damage, +stamina, and +weight, the stat is just so damn good.

>>155166839
Yeah. Starcraft 2.

>>155166839
Yes but this isn't the thread for that
Or there is enough traffic that we don't need to spark off topic discussions

>>155166962
Wouldn't an unarmed dude want armor so you don't get stabbed?

>>155167664
>getting stabbed in a game about zombies

>>155167664
>Sacrificing DEX when your survival is based on not being hit

>>155167575
Lockpicking gives XP when you unlock things. 10% on a wooden chest, and it just goes up from there.

Assuming you aren't playing just base OWH, anyway.

Also, do Goddess statues cost more in MC OWH as you pick higher difficulties? Because on normal they starting cost is always 5 for each new statue you visit, they've been buffed in comparison to OWH+.

At least Haste is getting removed now, so when do they remove cBlink? I can't accept a spell that's ten times more ridiculous than Haste stay in this game.

>>155168050
The xp investment is also ten times as much