/wowsg/ - World of Warships Admiral

>>151383668
>>151382574
>>151383594
>Bismarck firing all of its guns
>Synth drop at a fucking PT boat
Is this some kind of sick joke?

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>>151383692
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAH

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>people actually had hope for Gaijew

come on now

I have mixed feelings on the new WT Naval mode. I like seeing a game dev not cave to "Well the other guys are doing this and making money, I better do exactly the same thing." There is something laudable of not copying everyone else and making your own niche. That said, things that are popular are popular for a reason. People LIKE BB/CA/DD warfare and since they already have a decent flight system integrated into the same game platform they could do VERY interesting things with CV warfare. I dont know, my gut says they will probably end up adding Capital ships but part of me is impressed they didnt.

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>show a really nice model of the Bismark for most of the video
>cut to dubstep
>here you go goy here's your bias torpedo boats what do you mean you wanted to play actual ships?
I have no idea why anyone thought it was going to be any different.

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>>151384151
I honestly am just stunned right now. I cannot believe they could fuck it up so easily and effortlessly. It's literally so bad it's almost art.

>>151383692
>Laugh at Warthunder shi-I MEAN FUCKING PATROL BOATS HA HA Edition

I'm sure Wargaming has to close early today because people aren't getting any work done. Too busy laughing about world of botes.

Joke event with torpedo botes when?

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>PATROL BOATS

>>151384671
this would actually be a great response to the event they had with tanks last year

What if patrol botes are a joke?
What if patrol botes aren't a joke?

>>151384859
Who care? War Thunder itself is a joke.

>>151384090

No one else feels this way? Doesnt everyone complain when another COD clone come out? Or that OW was a shameless TF2 clone, or basically everything that is Battlefield now? No on thinks that the fact they arent just making a straight too direct copy of WoW isn't, I dont know, interesting?

>>151384893

I really can't believe how much they fucked up their game. It was so good in early beta.

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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKj8iC0vzd0
>1:10
If you slow down, you can hear the muffled sound of a thousand slavs laughing at the few people who still had hopes for Gaijin Naval Forces.

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>>151384929
It's literally fucking retarded. Patrol botes are quite possible THE LEAST INTERESTING PART of naval combat, if they were like HEY THE FIRST TIER STARTER BOTES ARE PATROL BOTES then it'd be great, but no, that's ALL WE'RE FUCKING GETTING WHAT THE FUCK

>>151384929

Dude, literally nobody gives a fuck about fucking patrol boats. Nobody.

It's going to be light tanks on water.

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>The Iron Armenian aka G.I. HaigsHace 32 minutos
>MY DICKENS IS ROCK HARD, suck it World of WarShips

>mfw he still hasn't realized the Bismarck and DDs are AI and will never be playable

>>151384987
I just can't make it through that trailer in one go. This is a joke, right?

>>151385143
LMAO

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>>151385032
Nuke shells when WG?

>WG increases skill ceiling
>Anumati realizes the game is too hard
>starts playing Gaijin's abomination
>we lose a cancerous shitposter

LMAO

>>151385201

I'm not even surprised anymore. Shit is getting worse and worse.

>>151385413
top kek not even /wtg/ likes him

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>>151385201
>>151385226
>>151385143
>Wojszach WojciechHace 19 minutos
>Six you know I can do this for realism and well we don't have few hours or days to fight 1 battle
They're already in denial!

>wow this new naval combat looks good on gaijins engine wargaming cant compete :D
what?

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>>151385413
>Gaijin makes it harder to play the game
>Anusmati comes back to shitpost

>>151385501
Gaijin called upon their shill force.

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>MagzTV: I could enjoy driving a PT Boat
I wonder how much goy eagles they game him this time.

>>151385412
>kill anything it touches with one bomb
Would you play against it?

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>>151385413
no bully him

>>151385540
didnt he want to quit ?

>>151385501
honestly the shit looks like an HD mod or some shit for battlestations pacific, the water is awful.

>>151385453
It's just sad. Their mods on the wt forums are already claiming DDs and CAs are definitely coming. At some point. Probably.

>>151385143
>>151385471
>>151385501
WARGAMING SHILLS ON FULL DAMAGECONTROL

YOU GAME IS DONE FOR!

>>151385540
>i could enjoy
bet you if it was a battleship or cruiser he'd be saying would

>>151385723
Yes, we're still reeling from the time when War Thunder Ground Forces killed World of Tanks.

>>151385785
WoT killed itself

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>>151385723
>PT botes

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>>151383692
Someone at Gaijin looked at this trailer and said to themselves "yes, this is a good trailer that depicts our upcoming game in a positive light."

Like I meant torp boats are a cool idea but the execution looks terrible.

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>>151385817
>he doesnt like speedsluts

Hey abrach or whoever had that image, Gimmi that skill ceiling and skill floor of all the classes!

>>151385979
it was posted right below your post retard

>need something to cheer me up after a shitty day at work
>See the WT boteforces trailer
I really needed that laugh.

>>151386116
What happened at work anon? Tell us.

>>151385923
Shimakaze is already in though.

>>151385540
sarcasm probably
I honestly can't tell

>>151383692
I know showing crew is Gaijin's thing, but they really should have omitted all the close-ups of the captains or at least touched up the models. They look like they came out of a PS2 game.

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>>151386165
>39 knots

>>151386005
Why dont you fuck off back to warthunder botes

>>151386245
What the fuck are you crying about, you got what you wanted shitposter

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How's this skill-spread for a Dedicated NC commander? NC is my favorite boat (have monty and Iowa already but much prefer the NC, even before the buff). I like this setup as a brawler as it maximizes surviability (60 sec reload on both repair and DC) plus good AA. I've tried Concealment and I just dont find it useful, Im not a hide in the back player so there is almost always a dd within 14 km of me so CE is worthless.

>>151386284
If I got what I wanted I wouldnt be asking for it retard

I bring ded generals back to life

t. ZeroWolf

orginal poster of Patrol Boat dubstep

Thank me latter

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>mfw WT got more active players than every WG title combined

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>>151385863
While I don't object to the tiny patrol boats being in such a game, the implementation of only them being playable (for now ))))))) comes across as lazy.

>>151386425
still recovering i see, it's fine. you'll get bigger ships sooner or later.

>>151386154
Just shitty managing of who was supposed to be on shift, so I ended having to do way more than necessary.

>>151386116
Your welcome anon

>>151386425

I'd argue that its cause its on steam so it gets more attention.

>>151386523
>steam
>server roaming

that's pretty much it

>>151386312
Personally I'd take SI and CE instead of HA and JoAT, but that should work. I still find CE useful even if I'm not sitting at the back because of the ability to disengage or move around the map between fights but as you say it's probably of lesser value for you, and secondary memes are not exactly reliable so the better CDs is probably the best choice.

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>its a wargaming shills are on suicide watch episode

>>151386425

Is that why I get games 5x faster in WoWS than in WT?

>>151386560

Also the planes are impressive. Balance mess aside.

>>151386425
proofs?

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>>151386312
>JoaT on a BB with fucking FUCKING f-u-c-k-i-n-g 13 km detectability

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>>151383692
>Gaijin's shill tubers gather in one place

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>>151386624
>PT botes

>>151386487
They really should have done one of their live action ads instead of that in-game engine crap. I don't play WT, but those looks really nice, and could have at least made playing torpedo boats look attractive or at least cinematic rather than someone's shitty gmod machinima.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sfA-NsbzJY

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WG should release a premium Amagiri when WT Patrol bot(e)s comes out.

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>>151386692

Everybody who ever played it on Steam is counted as "active player".

I'm kinda tempted to buy in just to see how awful it'd be.

>>151387053
Good goy.

Why does Prinz Eugen sound so cute?

>>151387053
I already gave a bunch of dosh to gaijin and it's about the only time I've really regretted being a good goy.

>some dumb faggot at gaijin was like huur lets recreate pt 109 or some shit FUCK i love movies

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>G-guys p-p-please come play at our g-g-gamescom booth, we have patrol boats and an AI controlled Bismarck
>WG comes over the loudspeaker
>it's a deep, grandfatherly voice, and he laughs heartily
>none other than the Mighty fucking Jingles
>listen here cunts, patrol boats are chump change, come on over to the World of Warships booth and play the Bismarck like a real man
>oh, and we're surprise releasing RN battleships too
>mic audibly drops
>jingles starts laughing maniacally in the background
>Gaijin reps start puking, knowing their game is DOA

>>151386849
Stop giving the merchants money, you fucking idiot.

>$24
>$31
lol nevermind

Where's the cheapo Yubari-esque option to buy in with?

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>4k players online at NA right now

RELEASE THE GERMAN BBS
KILL ANUSMATI
ADD FUCKING CONTENT
STOP JERKING OFF NIKO

FUCK YOU NIKO, FAGGOT LOVING SISSY POS

>>151387340
PT-109 IS the cheap Yubari-esque option for Gaijin.

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>>151386425
>Twitch
>WT - 6675
>WoWS - 932

>WT - 113

I just watched a tirpitz lose to a bonestock amagi, literally fucking how.

>>151387340
>cheapo option
>gaijew

>>151387324
Speaking of Meaty Jongles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W73nL8oNqu0

>>151387430

Whoops
>WoT - 6675

FUUUCK I AM PERMANENTLY BANNED ON THE FORUM FUCKING NIKO

WHY WONT THEY RELEASE THE GODDAMN GERMAN BATTLESHIPS, IT'S ALREADY AUGUST

>>151387530
Seeker?

They'll be out in like a week and a half lad, have some patience

>>151387430
>Twitch
>>WT - 6675
>WoWS - 932

Yes? Thanks for proving me right.

>>151387612
what does this prove? War Thunder has more autistic neets that like to watch other autistic neets play War Thunder?

How does WT work? Do you play with tanks and planes in the same battle?

>>151387474
and the rest of us watched a Bismarck lose to a soviet bathtub.

>>151387698
It means your shitty game is dead while WT isn't.

>>151387474
Remember how the Löwe get that terrible reputation while being an actually respectable tank in the right hands?

Tirpitz is just like that.


Unfortunately, the rest of the German BBs seem to be pretty much ass.
t5, t9 and t10 look terrible, the other tiers vary from mediocre to OK-ish.

Unless they decide to buff them between the current PTS and release, it's a DoA tree without any viable high-tier ships.

>>151387612

Anon, it's:

>WoT - 6675
>WT - 113

>>151386312
>How's this build?
>I've tried others and I like this one
How are supposed to respond to that?

>>151387612
WT actually has less people streaming than out ded botegame.

Just give up.

>>151387707

You have retarded arcade mode where everybody gets aim indicator that shows you where to aim and even shows if you will pen. And after you get kills you can spawn in planes.

>>151387926

9 times less actually.

Quite hilarious really.

>>151387962
You don't get aim assist in realistic, I think.

>>151387820
>Tirpitz is just like that.
It's absolutely not like that. Tirpitz is easy mode.

>>151388123
People still fuck up easy mode.

>>151387962
>You have retarded arcade mode where everybody gets aim indicator that shows you where to aim and even shows if you will pen.
tbf you have a pen indicator in WoT too, it's just that it only takes armor thickness and not angle into mind.

>>151387486
Normally I'd be skeptical of an evaluation from someone that doesn't play any T9/10 BBs but it seems like he might be about right with this.
It certainly didn't seem much good when I played against one.

>>151388086

Realistic has shitloads of other issues though. Like ULQ, bullshit shell physics and idiotic maps.

I still remember how amazing Kursk games were in early GF beta. Realistic long range gun duels decided by skill. It's really sad what happened to WT.

>>151388468
That's the problem that makes WT worse than any of WG's products, with WG it's pretty consistent and you know what you're getting, you'll get to drive/sail around and have some fun in a game that isn't the most amazing thing ever and they have plenty of problems but they're usually not big enough to completely kill it, and at least with Lesta there seems like at least someone on the dev team is actually taking notice of some player feedback. Whereas with Gaijin there's clearly some people there who know what they're doing and they can make some stuff that shows so much more promise and could be amazing, but then it all goes to hell is the most ridiculous ways and seems like the other half of the company is trying their best to kill the game off.
I think WT is the only time I've actually regretted being a good goy.

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>PT boats

>>151389010
)))))) buy beta acces now goyvarish

>>151389010
>with dubstep

>>151389165
>tfw not eurobeat

>>151389251
Yeah, gaijew really dropped the ball there.

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>>151389010
what is problem toovarish

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>>151383932
their line will likely be
>PT bote/corvettes
>frigates
>destroyers

and the destroyer part is possibly a huge maybe pending to no.

it will definitively be fast paced, wich used to be the most common complain of WoWs. going back to the game itself, i could imagine how even a destroyer is a big no, 5x127mm barrels would be hell for any ground force near a shore, a frigate would have 1 or 2 127mm barrel at best.

the real issue lies on what the fuck would a torpedeer boat do after he has fired his torpedoes. a tank near the shore can one shot it, a AAA emplacement can also shred it to pieces, it will likely only have LMGs to defend itself as well.

>>151389916
>the real issue lies on what the fuck would a torpedeer boat do after he has fired his torpedoes

You go to your allied cap zone and replenish ammo))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>>151389916
How the fuck is a PT boat able to get within 100 yards of a battleship and fire torpedoes point blank?

>>151389897
>BOUNCES SHELLS WITH ))) ARMOUR
>ONESHOTS ENEMYS WITH ))) SHELLS
JUST LIKE TANKS COMRADES

>>151389897
>both devs have to get around the fact that the vodkas had fuck all when it came to a navy
>WG's strategy is to just make some shit up and pull out some paper designs and just slap them in
>Gaijin just limits the entire game to dinky little boats which were about the only thing the russians had
desu I like the stalin's napkin fantasy ships more, at least it's interesting and I get to sail all the other ships that I actually like

>>151390059
Especially when Bismarck chose not to use DP guns because they were worried about dealing with torpedo boats and DDs.

Of course, not a single torpedo boat actually gets destroyed in the video.

>>151388185

Not that guy but, thats true, however, the Derpitz is easy mode. Other than the YamCan, the Depritz is the only ship at the top tiers (8-10) that can actually go broadside for extended periods and not got instadeleted. Really its only downside is the gun accuracy which although not great, given enough shots you WILL eventually get a good hit in, which given the shear wealth of health and armor, you do have the time to spare. The Derpitz and Atago are the most PTW boats in game, much moreso then others due to how they are specifically game breaking at their tiers. Yes the Murmansk is annoyingly better than the Omaha, it is not gona cause much more of a headache to a bb player. Likewise the Molotov is a great cruiser at its tier, but can still be dealt with by their rock-paper-counterpart.

Reminder baBBies have the lowest ceiling, floor AND are overpowered.

>>151390765
t. broadsiding CL

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>>151390765

>>151390765
You get your citpucci pounded too hard last night?

>>151385412
>>151385412
Soon.
http://blog.worldofwarships.com/hitting-the-enemy-with-nuclear-shells/

>>151391154
>april 1 2014

>>151390527
Atago is the only high tier IJN boat with forward facing torpedos, and gets health pots, allowing for some super aggressive plays

The turtleback armour that applies to almost all German ships making their citadels pretty difficult to hit, a reliable way I've found to hit the citadel was to make the tirpitz turn towards me in a battle so it raised it's lower belt above the water.

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>>151383692
>PT boats showed up
>no Fortunate Son or Eurobeat playing

>>151391154
>one of the Jap DDs has katakana on the side
give it back WG

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>>151385412
The mother of all weapons

>>151386848
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-J5Vg0SxLc

They really do make amazing live action trailers. Just look at the difference between this and the ships trailer

>>151390765
>Lowest ceiling
>OP
ehh?

>>151391582
>10 mil views

how

>>151391916
>Published on Oct 4, 2014
They still have flame of passion back then

>>151391582
It doesn't help that the textures on the ships look like they're from 2007.

That biscuit looks more like something from SO, even WG's shitty engine (no AA lol) manages to look better.


And WT's engine can actually look really fucking good, there is no reason for it to look so shit.
It's like they realize it's DoA and they decided to just don't give a shit and cut their losses early.

>>151391916
Russians. Its Gaijin's most viewed trailer, and literally every part of it except the very beginning shows extreme russian bias.
>lavochkin doesnt stall properly
>IS-2 at full speed and what is probably 1-2km away hits the tiger inbetween the turret and hull
>Russians have advanced so far that they have qt field nurses treating the soldiers

>>151392182
DELETE THIS!

>>151391569
Ahah, that's where the splash from the Chinese nuclear artillery came from in Command and Conquer Generals.

Slay where'd you go

>>151392182
>He didn't fight in the Great Patriotic War, he wouldn't of understanding blin

>>151392595
>nfw I'll never get to rape my way through half of europe

>>151391298
You noticed :(
A man can dream

>>151392708
>tfw Glorious Slav genes are spread all over Europe

>>151392708
You can try, as long as you don't get caught. )))))

F to War Thunder.

>>151392960
But Polska is already slav. You cannot slav what is already slav
>>151393045
Hey don't write it off so early. I predict it can have some appeal. I mean everything can be a fetish if you try hard enough

>>151392536
You logged off and i'm munted af rn

>>151392595

God I hate the Soviets...

I wish there was more White stuff in the world, like I love that we have a few White ships in WoW but so much of the world sucks thanks to the Soviets.

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>PT Botes
>"Ivan, we have many game now with big warship"
>"Da comrade"
>"We shall make warship game too!"
>"But how Ivan?"
>"We shall use torpedo ships! Easy to model!"
>"You are of genius comrade"

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>>151392536
>>151393473
simply epic

>>151393203
We double their slavness

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>>151390059
concealment range )))))))

seriously tho with the exception that most BBs had zero depression on all their barrels they would be eaten alive by the AA enplacements already on the 2km range. likely these corvettes would be the destroyers of KotS and destroyers the real BBs.

>theres the possibility of having games with destroyers only thanks to them being the only historically known class
>you will torpedo ports and get close enought to gun down any tank trying to kill you while doing what you can to hit inland
>a cheeky breeky artillery will eventually derp your DD due to better range and damage per shell, no joke
>a strafing fighter can, and will, disable the ship due to many turrets having no protection whatsoever

sake my head only real interesting part tbqh

>you will ford rivers on a PT to kill light tanks, likely with frigates that we have seen
>most PT fights will be done with the crew LMGing their target
>most fun part will be to jousts with torpedoes and guns blazing
>the frigates will act like cruisers except poor AA so everyone can be strafed by a fighter for free exp

if i remember correctly i did some search for light botes in WoWs when port battles were first announced
>japan had no PT, they historically only had destroyers protecting their ports or we would have heard of them by now
>amertican PT were unarmored corvettes also built for AAA
so its a fast paced bloody mess that will be entirely no different from WoWs

>>151393564
>re-skinned light tanks fighting on flat surface
>people are hyped for this

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What more could I have done /wowg/?

>>151393806
I litteraly can't even find wiki pages for specific pt bote models because they all just get lumped into a generic wiki page because no one cares. WT water forces confirmed dead on arrival.

>>151391331
if ibuki doesnt have foward facing derp-pedoes i know senzao does

this is irrelevant tho because torpedoes used by all nations had gyroscopes. you could easily foward face on mogamin because the torpedo would just arc foward.

>bow foward on NC
>dont bow foward on a german BB
this is quite counterintuitive, you sure it works?

>>151393932
not sit in the back bow on

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>>151393932
>not a single cap

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Gee who could have predicted that we'd lose this game?
Holy fuck I cannot remember the last time saw a match where a US CV beat a Jap CV above like T5.

>>151394663

Aren't they supposed to be better at AA?

I thought US CV gameplay is just about shutting down the enemy CV and providing recon.

>>151394286
>>151394496

a) I didn't, I never do. Not my play style in the least

b) it wasn't the 4 cap type, it was the two base kind so if we had capped we would have won. Put another way, NO one on my team had a cap

>>151394826
They can't even do that properly.
They're just fucking shit. Burger CVs are dead, they have been for ages, people need to stop playing them because there's nothing in the game that fucks your team over worse than queuing up in an US CV.

>>151394826
After T5 that all goes to shit as they are worse at both. At T8 they just turn into straight strike ships.

>>151394826
An air superiority Midway carries three fighter squadrons.

A Hakuryu with strike loadout carries 6 strike squadrons, plus two squads of fighters.

Even though the Hakuryu carries fewer planes per squadron, there's no way for the Midway's planes to be everywhere at once.

It's physically impossible for a Midway to shut down a Hak if the Hak driver doesn't have brain problems.

>>151394663

Ranger can, if its loadout is Air Sup. Yeah air sup isn't great but it at least can lock out the enemy CV. Then it really just comes down to the rest of the team to win. Its a dirty win, but you can win. It basically makes a 12v12 match into an 11v11 match.

>>151386312
What is CD ? And where can you see that the NC has 12 km detectability ?

>>151387324
moar stories please, writefag.

>>151386598

Is there ever enough time w/o JoAT to use 4 repairs? Without JoAT the timer is like 1:20 right? Its on for 20 seconds or so so thats 1:40 per use, so thats 6:40 of repair, which is effectively half of average matches. And thats assuming you use 1 right after another. IMO SI is worthless on BB's unless you dont use prem which is nuts in its own right.

>>151394826
>no reward for shooting down enemy plane, so less exp for having a defensive fighter loadout
>no recon ribbon so scouting/recon is unrewarding
really wish playing CVnts wasnt suffering

>>151396281
the premium version should allow for taht, but thats a good catch, SI shouldnt be good on BBs anymore

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>>151396281
SI is useless on battleships if you're Mako lmao

>>151396281
I use all 5 repairs in a significant number of my games and I don't have Jack, it's saved me more times than I can remember, especially in my Hotel, Iowa and Nagato. Premium repairs and premium health pot with the flag for faster CDs gives an insane survivability boost.

>>151396709

I use the JoAT + cooldowns + prems and still usually finish with 1 Damage left. And I tend to brawl so I get burnt alot and I still seldom have time to use all 4. I think having 5 is more important for say a hide-in-the-back-and-snipe since they tend to take big hits rather then the bug bites that you wait to repair till after the fighting is done.

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>>151396923
>and still usually finish with 1 Damage left

wut

>>151397139
>mfw when I don't finish with 1 damage.
That means I am good, right?

>>151397139

I meant Repair consumable.

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>>151397340
It's not brawling if you have one extra consumable left.

>>151396923
>I think having 5 is more important for say a hide-in-the-back-and-snipe since they tend to take big hits rather then the bug bites that you wait to repair till after the fighting is done.
More heal pots is more effective if you're within CA range for significant potions of the game because HE and Fire damage is where most of the HP to repair comes from, if you're sitting at the back taking citpens from other BBs then you're going to get LESS use out of them because less health can be repaired from a citpen.
The entire reason I will standby 5 health pots until the day I die or they just make some change to the game is entirely because I like to get closer in, which means taking more damage. Espeically considering that most games last 15 minutes+ there's plenty of time to use all 5 unless you get nuked too quickly or just steamroll the enemy team.

>>151397489
>tfw I always go through my repairs and heal cucumbers

I need more, the fire... it burns me...

>>151397489

I disagree. When your up close and personal I find I take less damage then when I hang in the back. I cant really tell you why but its definitely the trend. Realistically it comes down to dodging torps and keeping fires at bay, which JoAT goes in a far way of helping. Having 56 sec between extinguishes makes it so you can use them comfortably.

>>151397554

I'd argue you take less damage by being able to put out those fires 20 sec faster and more often by having JoAT (which effects DC) then outright health potion.

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Mako shut the fuck up, you don't brawl when you take a minimum of 5k damage

>>151397936
Spin back around one more time senpai!

>>151397936
spin that image for that juicy (You)

>>151397908
I'm not the one who you're discussing in, but I'll chime in.

Putting out fires as soon as repair is off cooldown is never an option. You save it for when you get set on triple fire or get forced to take a torp by a CV. So you're forced to let single or double fires run their course a lot of the time.
This is why the 5th healpot is absolutely necessary for any brawler.
CE is better for a T5 skill, since it lets you have an easier time repositioning and turn around, instead of having to reverse due to fear of getting citadel'd/torped while in a turn, hence outright avoiding more damage than if you had repair available more often.

The only ship type where I could considerate not taking SI is on DD's. But even then, I prefer to run it and have the extra smoke/speed for those hard-carry games running around caps and hunting down other DDs.

WR: 69%

>>151387486
>a ship worse that izumo on T9
>T10 can be seen from space canonically
what where the germans smoking?

>>151397908
With BoS and the flag you already -35% to fire duration, and with the other flag giving +20% to amount of health from each repair, I really don't worry about fires.
The problem is that individual fires are rarely worth putting out even with a slightly shorter CD, the 76s CD on DC is more than good enough for the occasions where you end up with multiple fires, especially considering you rarely have to use it for turrets/rudders, and the extra amount of damage taken from being on fire more is more than made up for by the extra health pot, which serves double use of negating a significant amount of the HE/regular AP pen damage that you take.
And that's not even counting that most people run CE as their T5 skill, even if they're not sitting at the back. I can get my Hotel's concealment range down to 13km, and I remember the NC being able to get it about the same (I have it in my port but I have no captain or mods because I just rebought it after selling it for the Iowa ages ago so I can't check the specifics) and you really notice the ability to be able to disengage and re-position much easier even at surprisingly close ranges.

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>>151398851
>German machines in Russian bias the game

>>151398851
They were pretty much 'we'll just throw something together to get hitler to shut up about his dumb ideas' kind of designs.

>>151398596

In this discussion WR is not really useful to discuss. Survival rate is more important. I'm at 87% on the NC. I don't find that 5th Health Potion helped much (I had tried this on the PT) and found I took more damage from fires since I had to do just what you said, wait till I had 3 full fires going to feel safe using it. With the 56 sec reload, I find I can use it more freely. Obviously if youre taking fire from all sides you wait, but if its a 1v1 or 1v2 senerio, you can comfortably pop it right away and save yourself 1000's of dmg points.

>>151399145
>In this discussion WR is not really useful to discuss. Survival rate is more important
I'd rather have died, but stayed in the battle far longer and win than survive and lose.

>>151399286

Not that guy but if your dead you cant do shit for you team...

>>151399286

Survival rate means you survived, that means damage didnt overwhelm you. If we're talking about the ability to survive, as in SI vs. no SI, you can look at it planely as surviving the battle or not. Being effective while doing that surviving has less to do with SI and more to do with aiming ability, which isn't effected by any of this.

>>151398851
>what where the germans smoking?
More like 'how much vodka did the slavs drink when they gave those stats to those ships'

Yeah, yeah, I know, muh national peculiarity.

What is the peculiarity of the German BBs? Right now it looks like they are all unusable shit, and will maybe make it to 'mediocre' one day if they get a serious reload, accuracy, turret rotation and survivability buff.

Is there a way to find out what your highest score ship was?

>>151399570
>If we're talking about the ability to survive
We're talking about the ability to win the battle. Surviving is obviously going to help, but ultimately winning the only goal, and you can still lose the battle if you're alive, which I would count as a failure.

>>151399750
>>>na.wows-numbers.com
Or equivalent server

>>151399914

I'll be honest, I've never much cared about winning the battle. I find getting the most kills and doing the most damage seldom has anything to do with winning. Winning seems to come more from what ships are on each team and how fast teammates die. For the most part no one is outside of the 50% +- 15% range which sort of implies the flip of the coin average. Put another way, if individual player skill had anything to do with WR, there should be people with 90% WR's, and people with 10% WR. And not statistical outriders, genuine better players should have MUCH higher WR and likewise REALLY shitty players should have much lower ones. Put another way, if skill were somehow tied to WR, that is to say a very good player will win more often, then why would they ever lose? So your better most (more than 50%) of the time, except all these other times? Look at other sports. The better teams usually have way over 80% WR, whereas shitty teams have less than 20%. Thats because skill actually matters there and it will effect the outcome. I'd argue skill is more or less worthless in this game as shell dispersion dodged torps, and sky cancer can go in a large ways to effect individual outcomes much more than skill does. Put another yet another way, the best player in the world can still get fucked in this game largely because their isn't a single ship that has 0 counter.

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>>151400769

>>151399673
>Right now it looks like they are all unusable shit
But muh Bisco ;_; She doesn't look that bad

>>151401120
Honestly Bisco and Bayern look to be pretty alright.

Maybe Gneisenau as well but
>3x2

>>151400769

cont'

I find many players, when it comes to stats, tend to want to have their cake and eat it too. They claim skill = WR, and a good WR => 65ish%. But thinking of that logically thats actually ALOT of lost battles.That means 35 out of a hundred battles you weren't skilled enough to win? Does that mean the other team was better? Or that your team was MUCH worse? Neither of those possibilities fit in the context of skill = WR. I would argue, and it is very apparent, that teamwork accounts far more for WR than anything else which duh makes sense. I look at my own stats where I have a total of 2 games in divisions, and >3600 games solo. I have a very high average damage per game (86k) despite the fact my average tier is 5ish since I play ALOT of boats (I'm a ST) and super high survival rates in most ships. But my WR is less impressive. Fluctuates between 56-59% pending on if Im testing a new boat or not (cause I find I lose more often in test boats since my team spends the whole match hiding behind me staring at my new toy rather than fighting). I do however div alot on the PT and WR% is in the high 60's there. What does that say? Teamwork matters. Skill less so.

>>151401584
>You can have the 3x3 setup though... For about 50 bucks goy :^)

>>151401120
Ok, yeah.

t4, 6 and 8 do not look like total shit.
t7 might be fun if you go full secondary meme, but fun doesn't make it good.

t5 is pure shit (increased sigma because balans))))))))))))))))))), t9 makes the Izumo look good, and t10 is just more Hotel fodder.

The whoe line needs buffs, half of it desperately so. Dispersion is lulzy, armor and torpedo defense practically nonexistent.
They will end up as worst performing ships of their tier at almost all tiers in no time.

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Kraut DD when?

>>151401608

cont' (last one)

I'd say I'm, invidually, a better player than most, but since I'm often in situations that involve no teamwork (on both my part and others), I find myself fighting alone and targetting particular ships. I mean, I'm sure Im alone in this playstyle, but I tend to pick three ships on the enemy team and focus on them exclusively, which means yes Im off chasing down someone away from the rest of my team most of the time. I don't die alot, cause its 1v1/1v2 most of the time, but I don't really spend much time with teammates. And as a result, I have a shit WR (according to stats-spazs). But then I'd argue anyone with <90% WR has a shit WR since if I told you, you get paid 69% of the time you went to work, you'd quit that job on day 1, whereas 95% you'd at least think about it.

>>151400769
>>151401608
The problem with this is that the truth is somewhere between "WR is irrelevant because it's impossible to carry" and "git gud and carry 100% of your games". The reason win rates generally fall within a certain range centered around 50% is that each single player has limited but still very important influence in the outcome of a game. What WR shows is the ability of a player to influence the game in a certain way (either negatively or positively) regularly enough that they are more likely to end up on the winning team.
>Teamwork matters. Skill less so.
Being able to play with and around your team is part of being a skilled player in a team based game.
And I'm kind of interested in seeing your stats now.

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>>151393485
>3/4 of the lines are from white countires
>I wish there was more white stuff in the world.
wew lad

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wew

>>151402135
>>151401608
There are shitters with 65+% win rate and piss poor damage per battle, survival rate and so on.

They literally get carried in divisions so don't take them seriously when they tell you "WR is super important".

>>151402135

BTW proof of concept, I tried to force my winrate to go down once, and wasnt able to make it drop by much more than a point or two.

>>151402181
If you want to include everything in the game, 5/6ths of the lines come from whitey lands.

>>151390059
>BB's have the same AI that is present for AA
>Nothing gets in range because of the AI.

>>151402385
I meant to say nations, shit.

>>151402352
That's why you look at solo win rate and not divisions.

>>151402530
Solo win rate is useless too. Some are lucky, others aren't.

You want to see if a player is good? Look at their avg damage per battle, survival rate, ship kill rate and avg exp.

>>151402605
>Some are lucky, others aren't.
Nobody is lucky to the point of winning 60% of their games over a sample size of several thousand matches.

>>151402169

I wont show my stats for 2 main reasons:

a) Im a super tester, and as with most ST's, we hide our stats

b) Im a leaker. The last 3 leaks were almost exclusively me. I like transparency and keeping boats hidden is kinda silly. I'll give out raw data but nothing that can point to me directly.

Like I said, not impressive stats in the 'ones that matter' (WR) 56-59% is nothing anyone is every gona be impressed by. I think my survival rates are impressive and my K/D (which funny enough is the go to "skill stat" in almost any other game) is >5, which is one of the higher ones Im sure.

Hello, /wtg/ refugees. Remember not to sail broadside and don't go down German lines.

>>151402605
You don't get lucky over 1000 games. All those other stats can be padded. Solo WR over a large number of games across a wide range of tiers is the best gauge of player skill in the classes of ships they play.

>>151399145
>In this discussion WR is not really useful to discuss.
Excuse me, but no. WR is important. Winning is the only thing that matters. Anything else is just a way to ensure victory. Sure, a high survival rate can correlate to higher WR, since surviving until the end of the match lets you influence the match more often. But a higher survival rate that doesn't lead to higher WR is useless. And I find the 5th healpot to be more useful, since it lets me get into more risky, more rewarding, engagements that let me save the match.

My WR in tirpitz is 71%, with a 68% survival and 80k average.

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>>151402008
I still don't understand why the torpedo protection is such dogshit.

>>151402870
>which funny enough is the go to "skill stat" in almost any other game
like what? where is that vastly more valued than the ability to consistently win games?

>>151402181

Thank you for making exactly my point. White = White Russians... I was talking about Soviets vs. Whites. Whites were the Loyalists against the Bolsheviks. Also the death of Russian culture.

Hey guys, do you know if there's a mod to remove the anime decals from the ARP ships and make them look normal? I'm in dire need of credits and those are the only premium ships I have.

Scharn tomorrow?

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>Gaijin

>I'll be honest, I've never much cared about winning the battle. I find getting the most kills and doing the most damage seldom has anything to do with winning
Goddamnit I just read >>151400769 and realized I just replied to bait.

>>151403057
They're not actually prem ships, y'know.

>>151402880
>and don't go down German lines.
That should basically be instinctive for them.

>>151403057
They don't get the premium credit modifier. WG wouldn't give that shit out for free.

>>151403057
fuck off
And they dont even earn premium credits you fucking newfag

>>151402754
There are 60+% solo win rate players maining battleships and cruisers with terrible performance, they are lucky while others aren't. This is a fact.

>>151402886
>71% win rate
>80k average damage

Win rate is high but your damage is fucking dogshit considering it's a tier 8 battleship. In other words, you're getting carried.

>>151403021
Win rate doesn't mean anything, deal with it divwhore.

>>151403021

Maybe not as much anymore but I remember BF2, pretty much everything came down to K/D, certainty any shooter. It really just seems since COD came out that WR became the go to 'he's good stat' and I still argue there its not valid.

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Found a nice pic, relevant to the thread discussion.

>Where will you be when PT boats visit a hotel?

>>151402880
>Hello, /wtg/ refugees.

Fuck off we're full

>>151403154
Well, then I'm fucked.

>>151403281
Just play t5 or t6 for awhile, they earn decent creds and some of the funnest ships are there.

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>>151403176
>Win rate doesn't mean anything, deal with it divwhore.
:^)
And you know saying "This is a fact." doesn't make something true, right?

>>151403176
>There are 60+% solo win rate players maining battleships and cruisers with terrible performance, they are lucky while others aren't. This is a fact.
?????
>being able to consistently do well in a ship is not indicative of skill
???????????

Or was the modifier "with terrible performance" meant to modify "players" instead of "battleships and cruisers"?

>>151403191
>PT boats
>either side of Ten-Go

>>151403468
Are you autistic? Why are you twisting my words.

If you have high win rate but garbage performance (avg damage, xp per battle, survival rate and ship kill rate), you're getting carried.
Deal with it faggot.

>>151403176

I'd still argue that a 71% WR is not a good WR. That still means that 29/100 battles you couldnt win. 29/100 the other team had 1 player noticeably better than him? That does not really make sense if skill = WR as the delineating idea. If large numbers of players had 90+% WR and large numbers had 10% WR then yes I'd agree skill = WR, but the fact EVERYONE (baring the expected statistical outriders) hangs somewhere closer to 50% than to 100%, suggests that even the best player in the world can't force a win. That would suggest that other factors than skill effect a win. I would argue its teamwork first, not necessarily because of div, plenty of time you see "solo teamwork" (I.E. strangers working together in the right fashion.

If you have a higher winrate than 60% but below 60k average damage, you can fuck off right now if you think you're not getting carried.

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>Pee
>Tee
>Boots

>>151403176
>80k average damage is bang on average for the top 5% of tirpitz players when it comes to average damage
>dogshit
Yeah, this sure doesn't sound like bait.

>>151403853
this desu

60% win rate but below 60k avg damage? shitter getting carried unless you play DDs

65% win rate but below 70k avg damage? shitter getting carried unless you play DDs

70& win rate but below 75k avg damage? shitter getting carried unless you play DDs

>>151403853
>Average damage
>Relevant

Average damage is entirely dependent on average tier. Imagine a player with 60% wr, 60k average, and their average tier is fucking 8? They'd fall into your silly definition of someone that doesn't get carried.

>>151403809

Its very much the "have your cake and eat it too mentality" that pisses me off. If skill = WR, then why do you lose so often? I stick to my analogy of pay at work. If I only paid you 70% of the time you would never tolerate that arrangement. If I paid you 95+% of the time at least you would discuss it. 30% is alot of losses. So if skill = WR, then why do you lose that often? Are you not that good to manage to carry to 95+%? That means a bad team has a GREATER effect than a skilled player. That means skill =/ WR, that means good team = WR.

>>151403853
>>151404026
>using the same standard average damage numbers regardless of tier
Yeah, I'm sure someone who plays nothing but T10 and has 61k average damage per game is far better than someone who plays T4 and has 59k average damage per game.

>>151404176
>Imagine a player with 60% wr, 60k average, and their average tier is fucking 8?

Good, seal clubbers can fuck off.

>>151403642
And I'm saying luck doesn't carry out over a thousand games in aggregate or over tens of games in a particular ship.

I want you to find me someone who you believe is "not skilled" with 60+% solo WR in a ship with at least 75 battles on it. Or, find someone who has a 60+% solo WR in aggregate with 500+ total games solo. Go on. I'll wait. (Those sealclubbers who have like 2000 games in Minekaze excepted, of course.)

No one gives a shit what someone's win rate in a ship after 10 games is because having a lucky game will skew it disproportionately. But the larger the numbers get, the more "luck" really becomes inconsequential.

>>151404214
>If skill = WR, then why do you lose so often?
Because WR is a measurement of ability to influence the battle in a way that you're more likely to win than lose consistently, not ability to 1v12 and hard carry every game, and no amount of terrible analogies is going to change that.

>>151404365
https://na.warships.today/player/1015396726/CatOnBoard
https://na.warships.today/player/1014999917/wavebave

>>151404026

STanon here. I would argue average tier effects avg damage alot. I have to play all the tiers, often, and its functionally impossible to get 70k average dmg if you play tier 2-3-4 alot (the total teams Health might not even exceed 70k, and averaging 70k doesnt mean you GET 70k most of the time, we all know this, it means getting 35k half the time and 140k the other half of the time, which is even more unlikely at the lower tiers). Problem with stats in this game is everyone is looking for a single silver bullet stat. Max/min this single number to see whose the best, when in reality SOOOOO much would have to go into the statistical analysis to find a genuine trend.

>>151403809
>>151403853
>>151404026
>>151404176
>>151404214
>>151404220
>>151404365
Autism speaks

>>151403435
Can't: I just have a tier IX that I don't want to sell, and that's it. I have barely the credits to buy a tier II.

>>151404587
Yeah gee lets get back to shitposting about drama between literally who's instead, that's so much better.

>>151404548
Your gestalt for deciding "skill" is highly flawed.

>>151404548

>Posting two rerolls

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>WR is all luck!
>Sniping from max range and survival are more influential to winning a match.
>I still lose most of the time with my 56% WR anyway, but that's about the same as wave's 75% because he still loses.
>60%+ WR doesn't mean you're influencing more than your 1/12th share of the team weight. It just means you're still a shitter.
>Why aren't you winning 100% of the time?
>Why aren't you the top player in the server? Why are you still losing against other good players?
>80k average in a T8 BB is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE
>Wave's 75% is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE

>People are still replying to this shitter

I love how easily /wowsg/ falls for obvious bait. From a 56% Supershitter nonetheless.

>>151404520

But if thats the case then why do you ever lose? If your skill is enough to influence the outcome 70% of the time in you favor, then what happened those 30%? You weren't skilled enough *30%* of the time? I mean in almost anything in life not succeeding 30% of the time at a task your supposedly good at would not be a task you were good at. Like batting average, and... I honestly can't think of something else has <90% succeed rates for skilled persons. Im a competition shooter (bench) and if I shot >1 inch groups 30% of the time I would not be able to enter a gun club league, much less anything reputable. So if WR is = skill, then that means MOST players, realistically almost ALL players in WoW are not actually that skilled at the game since >30% of the time most of them can't influence the game in their favor.

>>151404983
shitter detected

80% win rate or bust

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>>151404548
Explain how this is an unskilled player, considering this is solo stats so there's no division mess going on.

>muh rerolls

Reminder if you participated in CBT, you're a reroll.

>>151405057
shitter detected

99% win rate or bust

>>151405114
>99%
>losing at all

shitter detected

>>151404639
Oh, then I would recommend downloading Aslains modpack as there's a mod in it called "No Manga" that does exactly what you want it to do.

http://aslain.com/index.php?/topic/2020-0581-aslains-wows-modpack-installer-wpicture-preview-v58111-25-07-2016/

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>>151405026

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I don't know what the fuck is going so I'll say fuck anime, fuck Arpeggio ships, fuck WG, fuck Niko, fucking add my German battleships or I'll riot

>>151405114
shitter detected

∞% wr or bust

>>151404719
Yea, cause because epenis fights are really much better

>>151405243
Oh, wait, shit, ignore this, Aslains hasn't been updated, I'm an idiot.

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>tfw 56% wr

Eat a dick faggots

>>151405026
>But if thats the case then why do you ever lose? If your skill is enough to influence the outcome 70% of the time in you favor, then what happened those 30%? You weren't skilled enough *30%* of the time?
Pretty much. Which is why WR is used as a comparison relative to other players, not in a vacuum, which you don't seem to grasp going off your analogies.
If someone only loses 30% of their games, and another player is losing 60% of their games, and the only objective is to win the game, then one of those players is clearly vastly better at it than the other.

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>Another WR =/= skill episode

Can we please go back to laughing at Gaijin?

>>151404983
Ikr?

>>151405057
Shitter detected

>he can't get a 100% WR

Fucking pathetic

>>151405065

Wave stop fucking posting.
No one gives a fuck.

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>>151405589
>A
>FUCKING
>PT BOAT

>>151405286

For my part, Im not arguing epenis, Im arguing the opposite, that the go to individual stats are more or less meaningless in most contexts. Each single stat can be 'debunked' in context vs. individual skill.

High AvgDmg = Well high tier play makes getting 100+k avg damage realitvely common, especially for BB players
Low AvgDmg = The opposite, if you regularly play low tiers, a persevered low avgdmg is expected (breaking 70k avg dmg on tier 2 is functionally impossible)
WR in general = more indictative, in my analysis, of good teamwork. Not luck, not anymoreso then at least luck in having people willing to work as a team.
Survival Rate, which I myself have a very high one, well if you avoid contact win or loss you'll live.
K/D can argueably be tied to the same although at the least it requires you to effect that battle somewhat.

>>151405449
>tfw 53%

I just don't give a fuck

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>there are "people" in this thread pretending their win rate in random battles is meaningful when they're too shit to get rank 1

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>>151405694
Laughing dragons are a miracle.

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>tfw anime auists on the forums puts an extra u in Hakuryu, Fuso and Kongo.

>>151402886
sigh
>no
"no"in itself is not an argument
"Winning is the only thing that matters"
To you, Dahmer

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>>151405449
Feels good man.
Don't really care that I'm never going to be a unicum, I'm always improving, even if it isn't by much and I get to do it playing all the ships I love entirely by myself without a care in the world.

>>151405453

>and the only objective is to win the game

And then I would argue its not. And I think that's the key disagreement here. And I get to use a naval analogy here. Jutland. According to you, and WoW rules, the British won the battle (commanded the sea (captured points)) but then the Germans caused disproportionate casualties. Know one, ever, has argued the Scheer was not the most skilled commander that day, certainty maintained FAR better control of his forces that Jelico, yet they "lost" by WoW standards. Its the classic Tactical/Strategic split. In my opinion, losing the battle but playing the better fight is more important. Put another way, I've been far more aggravated with myself when I play poorly on a winning team, then when I play well on a losing team. And I doubt Im alone in that sentiment.

>>151405770
Yea, but a some point the edicks come out and someone always has the bigger edick, and some bitch is getting slapped with it

>>151405694
Literally world of boats. I never thought it possible they could drop the ball this hard out the gate. At the very least I was hoping a little competition would light a fire under Wargaming, but this is about as far from WoWs you can get while still calling yourself a naval game.

>>151404365
>But the larger the numbers get, the more "luck" really becomes inconsequential.
Nooooo, this is a base statistical fallacy, get out of my research center. 10.000 is just that set of10 games repeated many times with the same outcome.

>>151405791

Despite shitting on WR I would actually agree with this. Because WR is not actually as important as teamwork. I would say individual skill will delineate better in ranked since if you lose, but score highest on your team, you dont lose a star, meaning that you could lose dozens of matches in a row, but if you truely are a great player, it wont matter. You wont go up, yes, but you wont go down. Realistically you just have to wait for a team that's better at working together to get a win and net you a star. If the game gave awards for team placement (kinda like the Gold dmg mission right now with the single doubloon reward), I would think thats a better way to tell a skilled player from unskilled since a great player will outscore, from all sources, a terrible player, regardless of endstate of a match.

>>151404983
>Condescending
That's Ironic, because you're the opne that's wrong. I have a 93% wr and I know he;s right.

>>151406614
Doesn't seem likely to happen

Armored Warfare didn't put the fire to them like everyone in /wotg/ hoped it would either

>>151406614
To be hones, how could have they pulled off big ships properly? not in their bullshit "its too slow and boring" aspect, as in, crew mechanics, modules and all that.
Player controlled CVs is too much for war blunder.

>>151406991

They did it in BF1942. They worked great there.

>>151406614
>Gayjin implements BB
>Now you have 12" (minimum) shells raining from 10km away minimum on your sorry ass every 30 seconds
>Meanwhile baBBies get sinked by the first torp because >realistik mekanics tovarish

>>151405668
It's publically available and anyone can screenshot & upload it, stop thinking everyone is your favorite idol you paranoid fucktard.

>>151406651
(You)

>>151406697
Clearly, only Blys and Sims players are skilled. :^)

>>151406991
>player controlled CVs

No, instead you get planes piloted by players that you have to give orders to for maximum realism :^)

>>151405770
>High AvgDmg = Well high tier play makes getting 100+k avg damage realitvely common, especially for BB players
>Low AvgDmg = The opposite, if you regularly play low tiers, a persevered low avgdmg is expected (breaking 70k avg dmg on tier 2 is functionally impossible)
Those are shit stats anyway. They are only valid and reliable when compared against other players playing the exact same ship. You don't get anywhere if you compare a player that plays mostly DD vs BB. But if you compare the DD player stats against others playing the same DD, then you get valuable information on who performs better. And even then, WR is still more important: capping a base is more important than going after a battleship camping the blueline.
>WR in general = more indictative, in my analysis, of good teamwork. Not luck, not anymoreso then at least luck in having people willing to work as a team.
"No". WR is directly tied to individual skill, which affects how a team works. A team of 40% may be willing to work as a team, but they will never make the right choices because their skill and knowledge is flawed. A good player will both do more damage and know how to make better use of the situations his team creates, and maybe even lead them into following a plan. This is something that will show develop in a consistent higher WR over the course of hundreds of battles.
>Survival Rate, which I myself have a very high one, well if you avoid contact win or loss you'll live.
This is only helpful if you know how to make use of it. Who gives a shit if you farm damage while you run away to a corner of the map the entire game? You didn't push any objectives, and now the enemy has all three caps and wins by points. It doesn't matter how many ships you sink. What matters is that they're the right ones. A ship sniping from the blueline is less important than a ship capturing a point and breaking havok on your own team. Good survival and k/d are only useful if they're tied to a good WR.

>>151406991
Same way they do tanks, they could always take inspiration from Battlestations Midway too. Their firefighting/flooding mechanics were great if you ask me.

>>151406257
>single naval battle as part of a much larger strategic campaign in a war with an almost infinite number of additional factors = a discrete match in an arcade game
What
This analogy again doesn't work because there is no tactical/strategic split, there is no campaign. Who truly 'won' Jutland was irrelevant because it was part of a bigger picture, where one side was able to achieve their goals and the other wasn't due to factors outside of the battle. This is a game with a single predefined objective; win the game.
>In my opinion, losing the battle but playing the better fight is more important.
If you actually did consistently fight better, then you would win more games on average than someone that doesn't, therefore you would have a higher win rate than that player. That's the entire point.

>>151406897
proofs?

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>>151403009
If you want a somewhat techincal explanation:

The TDS that the Kreigsmarine designed into the Scharnhorst, Bismarck and H classes was essentially repeat of what the Kaiserliche Marine used in the Bayern, Mackensen, Ersatz Yorck and L20 alpha.

The reason for this repeat was simply that they didn't have time to really test something new when Hitler decided 'make new battleships NOW'.
In reality, this was not such a huge issue because the design was basically sound even if it was outdated, and they also used another feature that the Kaiserliche Marine had used: Good watertight subdivision.
The realization was that maybe you could not stop a torpedo explosion completely, but you could very much limit the flooding, thus keeping the ship afloat and stop it from rolling over.

The problem here is how WG decided to turn real features into in-game stats. The good internal subdivision is represented by the chance to avoid flooding, which is rather high for most German ships. This however is pretty worthless in-game, because a chance to not suffer flooding doesn't help you a lot against torpedo hits that just killed you.

The torpedo damage reduction, however. . I have no clue where that number comes from. It should be REALLY fucking high for most US designs, but it is highest for Yamato.
Yamato had a TDS with huge depth (a lot of distance is between the torpedo explosion and the internals of the ship) but withe a pretty bad design flaw that caused the whole thing to basically collapse and leak water like a motherfucker.
Anyway, this value is the important once because it allows you to just fucking ignore the shitty airplane torps that will only do 4k to you, hit R and rock on.
And Hotel has more base hitpoints and is smaller to begin with.

tl;dr, there is some technical and historical reason why the value is what it is, but it doesn't make sense from a balancing point of view and it will doom these ships to the very bottom of the performance ladder.

>>151407616
Sissy faggot seal clubber

>>151407598
The history autists here are the best posters desu.

>>151405449

55% and I don't give a fuck.

>>151407326
>Good survival and k/d are only useful if they're tied to a good WR.

Thats... kinda my point. Out of context NONE of these stats are meaningful, including yes WR. Again, if WR = skilled then skilled players should be averaging 90% or greater since the more skilled players should DOMINATE the other team no matter what if they truly are skilled enough to influence the outcome of a battle. But they don't, because they can't. Because the most skilled person in the world couldn't manage to influence a battle of 1v12. Well thats not true in other games. 1v12 is done all the time in other games. Look up videos of CS unicums. They dominate regardless of the odds stacked against them because the individual skill is the delineating ability. In this game not so. The best player in the world, with the best WR in the world, put on a team of complete shits will lose. No one would argue that. But with that true therefore it must also be true that skill cannot be the sole effector of WR. That would suggest that a competent team, and thus teamwork, is far more important. And as such, out of context, WR is meaningless to individual skill.

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>muh stats

I could hop into any low tier CV for 500 games and suddenly have 70% win rate with 80k average damage. And I'm a shitter.

>>151408137
We know Anu we know

who /d2g/ here

>>151407439

Tactical/strategic split is a military analysis term (I went to West Point so this is exactly my field). It means you won (or lost) tactically, but lost stratigically. A tactical win (usually) entails killing more of an enemy. Out manuveraning an enemy. But it may or may not including holding a position. A strategic win includes holding a position. Taking the ground. Wars aren't won by just killing the enemy (if that were the case then Germany would have soundly beaten the USSR). Jutland is often used (in school) to exemplify the split as the tactical win was CLEARLY Scheers. Much higher casualties, much more tonage sunk AND was far more skillful in his deployments, command, and control. However, he ran. At the end of the day, despite casualties, the Grand fleet commanded the field, and thus won strategically.

>If you actually did consistently fight better, then you would win more games on average than someone that doesn't, therefore you would have a higher win rate than that player. That's the entire point.

But we all see that thats simply not true. You're arbitrarily picking something is a delineating sign of skill and declaring that the winner (no true scotsman). I could do the same thing with K/d and the highest K/d's don't tend to have high WR and thus then you're wrong and I'm right. If you're insistent on arguing a *viewpoint* its an opinion, and thats not really sound, I'm arguing that tying skill to a singular stat is impossible and requires a grander picture.

>>151407984
>Again, if WR = skilled then skilled players should be averaging 90% or greater since the more skilled players should DOMINATE the other team no matter what if they truly are skilled enough to influence the outcome of a battle.
You're assuming there are no other good players in the enemy team.
And that there is only an on/off state for skill, not just gradual steps. That even if there was somebody with 100% WR, the next in line at 99% knows absolutely nothing and is dogshit.

By your logic, nobody is skilled in this game, which is just an easy way to make yourself feel good about your own bad stats.

Face it, there are tons of people better than you, and you cannot do anything about it but post flawed fallacies on an anonymous board.

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>he thinks he's good at this game without being rank 1 once

>Gneisenaus hull upgrade removes all the 15cm guns
interstig

>>151408137
If you take a low-tier DD, everyone with an IQ above room temperature can do that.

>>151407598
>TDS damage reduction is based purely on how big the TDS itself is

Probably should've seen that one coming sooner considering their previous track record with things like torpedo detection and firing range.

>>151407984
>Again, if WR = skilled then skilled players should be averaging 90% or greater since the more skilled players should DOMINATE the other team no matter what if they truly are skilled enough to influence the outcome of a battle.
Why? The game is designed in a way that it's not possible to do this consistently, thus arguing that the impossibility to win every game renders the entire stat meaningless shows only that you don't understand why people use WR as a measurement.
It's used as a relative comparison to other players, it's a bell-curve, not a 1-100 scale.

>>151408638

>You're assuming there are no other good players in the enemy team.

But someone would be better. And thus, someone (and not just 1, but many, since there are enough players to play thousands of games and never see everyone, proof of concept, I have over 3600 games and have never seen Raptor in a game once and as a ST I play all tiers) would get a WR of 90%. A clear better would arise if Skill = WR and there would be people with 90% WR. Its the same way in sports. You have multiple undefeated Boxers at any 1 time. They don't fight each other often, if ever, but that doesn't change that they are highly skilled and have perfect records. In this context though, that doesn't hold true. Their HAS to be a best player in this game, by definition, and if that best player, according to skill, does not have 90% WR or even a perfect WR, then how can Skill and WR be directly tied?

>>151408613
WR is more important because a victory gives more XP/Credits, which is the main objective of the game.Damage and K/D are not important individually because you can get kills and damage while still not influencing the match result.

You can roleplay as a military tactician about losing battles and winning the war all you want, but that has no importance in a standard random match. Whenever clan wars is implemented, and we get stuff like locking up enemy ships so they can't use them for a while in more important battles, then there might be more strategy to the game than simply winning/losing single battles.

>>151408856

But comparing relative to other players still a logical fallacy. A hypothetical, Im a very skilled bb driver who plays, effectively, tier 10 exclusively. And I amass a WR of 70%. An equal skilled BB driver plays tier III exclusively, and as one would expect, due to the limitations of BB's at that tier, is not able to use their skill to influence games as effectively, only has a 50% WR. They may be of equal skill, but other factors are bringing in that cause the comparison to be invalid. If I were to take 1 and place them in the other position they would preform identically. So again, WR proves to be useless out of context. Now if you're talking about taking WR + Survival Rate + K/D + Avg Dmg + Avg Score, all combined in analysis against the same full stats of another player to build a coherent picture, that I would agree with, but again, a hypothetical:

Player 1:
75% WR
10% SR
Avg dmg 30k
Avg score 800

Player 2
55% WR
70% Survival
Avg Dmg 150k
Avg Score 1400

Which player is more skilled?

At face value

75>55 easy, but anyone can see that would not be the case. And the situation described here is not off the walls, you see stat spreads like this all the time.

>>151408613
>Tactical/strategic split is a military analysis term (I went to West Point so this is exactly my field). It means you won (or lost) tactically, but lost stratigically. A tactical win (usually) entails killing more of an enemy. Out manuveraning an enemy. But it may or may not including holding a position. A strategic win includes holding a position. Taking the ground. Wars aren't won by just killing the enemy (if that were the case then Germany would have soundly beaten the USSR). Jutland is often used (in school) to exemplify the split as the tactical win was CLEARLY Scheers. Much higher casualties, much more tonage sunk AND was far more skillful in his deployments, command, and control. However, he ran. At the end of the day, despite casualties, the Grand fleet commanded the field, and thus won strategically.
And none of that matters because you missed the point entirely. It's an analogy that doesn't apply to individual matches of a game by it's very nature because the game has no higher level outside of the context of the individual match. If you win the battle then that's it, you won, end of story. There's no control of the seas, there's no blockade, one team just won and the other lost, there's literally no outcome where you can win the battle (match) and lose the war because there is no war in this analogy.

>>151409494

>WR is more important because a victory gives more XP/Credits, which is the main objective of the game.

You just introduced a huge opinion. I basically play my North Carolina exclusively now for BB's, and have well over 700k xp on her, so getting XP is not a concern for me when I play her. Having an enjoyable battle is far more important to me.

>>151409731

> It's an analogy that doesn't apply to individual matches of a game

Tactical Win in WoWs:

Team 1: Loses, has more surviving ships and killed more of the enemy team and killed larger/more dangerous ships

Team 2: Wins, Caps.

Team 1 Won tactically (killed more, and more important, units)

Team 2 Won Strategically, won the match, held the ground (which in WoWs case is analogous to holding/caping points).

>our cap reaches 1000 points
>game hangs for like 4 seconds
>a friendly ship dies
>enemy team wins


???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

>>151409035
>ou have multiple undefeated Boxers at any 1 time.
That's a 1v1 game
This is a team game, and you don't get to pick it, so your chances are reduced. And yet, skill still matters and influences the outcome. The higher you can influence such outcome upwards, the better you are. It's not hard to understand, unless you try to deny your mediocrity.

>perfect WR
That's what organized teams are for. In WoT, the best CW's team go undefeated for long spans of time. But those teams are made up of exclusively high-WR players (provided they don't fake it by playing tons of T1 games). Why? Because a 50% that can follow a plan, no matter how good the plan is, it's still worse at executing it than a 70% player. So, WR matters.

>>151409890
>Having an enjoyable battle
>"I'm having fun!"
Then that's an even larger opinion. You can't even measure enjoyment, so it's not a factor in a discussion about skill.

Good for you if you have tons of fun on your ship. You're still a shitter.

>>151410082
Team 1 still got less XP/Credits. Team 1 got shafted and lost in the end.

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save me from gaijin /wowsg/

>>151410619
Don't call it a grave... It's the future you choose.