/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

I never saw that piece of art before. Is it fanart?

>>54668383
yeah, it's a subtly wrong version of Stryker. Like the person who drew it only had Stryker and a Stormwall verbally described to him.

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>>54668407
I don't mind. It's neat. I like seeing the fanart of the game.

....God I would kill for more Assault Kommando stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love big boss himself, but I like the masked fellows even more.

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>>54668436
yeah there's some fairly decent fanart out there for Warmachine. Makes me wish we had as wide a fanbase as 40k.

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>>54668518

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>>54668530

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>>54668518
>Makes me wish we had as wide a fanbase as 40k.

Yeah. I think PP flubbed up on their new Tabletop game by trying to link it to the game too directly.

Minis are pretty much a requirement, and drawing is a whole other skill then making homemade minis.

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>>54668546

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>>54668637

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>>54668667

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>>54668686

You know 40K is a universe thats very big but pretty shallow on detail (I mean the books go into massive detail about motivation and backstory, but the factions that actually matter have a pretty short write-up in terms of backstory).

Whilst Iron Kingdoms are a comparatively very small universe but in massive depth and crossover for every faction.

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>>54668799
40k also existed for 16 years before Warmachine was ever released, and thus had more opportunities to collect written works and other ip lines to branch out the fanbase.

Given time I'm sure Warmachine will get better novels and will probably release video games or similar side projects that aren't completely toilets.

>>54668546
This reminded me.
I always thought it was weird that Jacks and Beasts had to spend focus/be forced to fire more than once for high RoF guns.
What's the point of giving a jack a gun that can fire rapidly if they can't actually use it properly without a Warcaster nearby?
Thankfully, MK3 fixed that.

>>54668919
Tragic. I feel like the Warmachine Crew is surprisingly small for in general an actually pretty big game.

>>54668799
Well, the40k exist for people to self insert their army into.

Problem is that PP actually writes shallower characters than GW's one sentence characters by being inconsistent as fuck

>>54668345

The last thread wasn't a shitpost either, you twat.

>>54669066
None of them are exactly deep but Im glad PP has dropped some elements over the years.

I feel like the named characters are the least interesting aspect of warmachine 60% of the time.

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So what are you folks painting?

>>54669831
Trying to figure out a good scheme for Aelyth Vyr before my box of Ryssovass arrives.
Actually, does anybody have suggestions for painting unblighted Nyss skintones? I'm not sure how to make a pale purple tone look healthier.

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I know it's a small company but it seems to get larger by the month. They seem to post job openings at least once a month every month for the past 8 months that I've been aware of

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Just curious though, what type of fan art are people looking for? My traditional art is decent enough. I suck at digital art but I'm trying to get better.

>>54670239
Any fan art is welcome here, friend. Post em if ye got em.

>>54670239
Lewds, obviously.

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>>54668667

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>>54671749
'casters are for cute, not lewd

What are some good classes to combine with the warcaster and soldier careers in IKRPG? I'm thinking rifleman+soldier would be pretty intense.

WHO GRYMKIN HERE

>>54668407
>except that's clearly Thunderhead

Are any more of those command books coming out? I notice there aren't ones for mercenaries and Cyriss

>>54672662
Yup. Good stuff.
>>54674664
Thunderhead with an exhaust. Which is why its misleading. Thunderhead is literally the only jack that doesn't have one.
>>54675484
I think Skorne is the last. After that all fluff will be NQ material only.

>>54671749
Content restricts me from posting here but I have really bad(God awful) drawing of Saeryn and Rhyas having there way with Kreoss

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>>54674664
>54668383
Thunderhead with a Spriggan's shoulder grenades, and no lightning coils except on it's fists? This isn't Thunderhead at all.

>>54675484
Mercs and minions aren't real factions and CoC is getting squatted

>>54676052
CoC is getting an actual new release in the form of a new Warcaster. Get over yourself.

>>54672292

And not for marriage, either.

>>54676594
Fuck you Ayn.

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>>54676721
KHADORED.com

>>54676052
New caster spoiled for CoC on LnL.

>>54676801
I wonder what that stormguard must be thinking.

>>54676903
He's a big guy

>>54676044
Certainly a lot closer to Thunderhead than a Stormwall.

>>54675794
Link?

>>54676946
It's nowhere near finished and needs a lot of work. If and when I do finish, I'll post a link. I'd really like to do more War game lewds, but I need more practice before I post shit

>>54669831
I just finished by Desecrator last night, and I'm probably going to start work on an Ogrun Bokur next, because Skarre needs someone to catch bullets for her on the way to the enemy Caster.

>>54669831
Finishing Malakov2 and getting started on a Field Gun

>>54676838
>>54676554
And that's their last release. Enjoy CoC gobblers

>>54678449
Id kinda hope so. Thats the nice part about limited release factions.

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>>54677558
It's criminal how little Warmahordes smut there is, so I'd love to see it. Personally I'm a writer, not an artist, and do sometimes toy around with ideas but have never been able to settle on something I think would be hot while still making for a good story.

>>54679195
Ew, go away

>>54677558
What does Kreoss do in that picture?
His favorite fetish: threesome handholding.... Lewd

>>54679892
We'll I did say it was them having their way with him. I didn't say the white knight is particularly enjoying it. Although I did toy around with the idea of him anger banging Feora because he found himself lusting for Harby on the day of her adulthood

>>54676903
"Look profesional. Don't piss him off.Look profesional. Don't piss him off.Look profesional. Don't piss him off.Look profesional. Don't piss him off.Look profesional. Don't piss him off.Look profesional. Don't piss him off.Look profesional. Don't piss him off.Look profesional. Don't piss him off.etc"

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>>54679195
write about Sorscha being turned into the Woman in the Iron Mask.

>>54672662
Man-at-arms/war caster
Soldier/Military officer
war caster/pirate
Priest/soldier
Warcaster/Knight.

WMW ticket for sale! VIP gets access to PP show room the night before - so all them new releases will be in our filthy handsssssssssssss
>>54671749
This anon knows what's up

>>54683008
I know this is bullshit but Il play into you.

What show room?

>>54683062
PP brings a ton of stuff - all the limited items like the titty models, mugs, etc - also limited releases - last year all the new Warlocks were released first - Una 2, etc, etc - it was the only way to get them in hand - PP had them for sale on the web, but sold out on most in about 2 hours.

warmachineweekend,com

>>54683253
Don't they also show up at Gen-Con?

>>54683346
Not with the limited stuff - just Lock and Load and WMW, unless I am ignoring the GenCon connection.

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>>54669831
Everybody get up, it's time to clam now

We got a real un-jam going down

>>54668928

Easy answer: game rules are not a direct translation from fluff and/or magic ain't gotta explain shit

Fluffy answer: Jacks are first and foremost designed to be used for warcasters. Some weapons are designed knowing that a warcaster can take control and push the warjack technology to their limit.

For warbeasts and ROF weapons it could simply be they are too dumb to know how to use the weapon properly without warlock control (Mammoth Siege Battery) or are forced to use a natural weapon in a way they would not normally do in the wild (Glacier King being forced to shoot more than once).

Most high rate of fire guns are almost always represented by a D3/D6 mechanic now though.

>>54683602
God damn, I love clamjacks. I'd start Khador just for them if I wasn't already juggling six armies across three games.

>>54684440
I now have 2x Devastators and one Demolisher.

If I had one or two more, I could finally try to force my Old Witch1 meme list with Apparating Clamsjams for free Bulldoze slams every turn.

>>54670090
>I know it's a small company but it seems to get larger by the month.

It's actually the opposite. Privateer pays low wages for comparative work and only has constant job openings due to talent leaving or about to leave the company.

Their peak was about 2011 I'd say.

>>54684802
How do you know that? It would make allot of things make sense, but what makes you think that?

Also I mean overall. Even if its not their peak, they have a tiny team for the position they have in the market.

>>54678449

>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE

What a fag.

>>54685166
Worked there for 5 years

>they have a tiny team for the position they have in the market.
Their position which has been slowly, and less slowly with this latest edition of 40k. Retailers who carry their product were being continuously shunted and ignored and they wasted enormous resources giving Press Gangers free stuff.

>>54685196
>Worked there for 5 years
You do mind if I take what you say with a pinch of salt without any backup evidence?

>>54685292
Don't care. You said it yourself it makes sense.

>>54685292
Talk to any ex employees at any level at that company. It was no secret that last Christmas they had a payment issue.

>>54685427
But I don't know any employee, who was one who told you so?

>>54685456
Chris Lester is a recent one

>>54685456
Totally legit anonymous users on 4chan

>>54685480
>Chris Lester
I also recently checked Glass Door and it confirms.
It does not paint a pretty picture of management even if I like the game.

Well hopefully the ship can be righted even if the management ain't good.

>>54685456
Hungerford maybe? It's been a while. I live around the area so I hear most things from multiple mouths. Most things I hear now are hearsay from people who still play the game and talk to the devs. I know that Plumber quitting is why they needed a convention coordinator recently I don't exactly know why, but considering that cost of living is ridiculous in the area, it's very likely that it was a pay issue.

My art teacher, L. West also had bad experience with PP and basically vowed to never work there.

>>54685519
Reading glass door that all aligns with how I saw things as well.

It's also telling that from 2008 to 2013 it wasn't just that there was no negative reviews, there were no reviews because nobody was leaving the company.

It's a problem at the highest levels of management. Level 7 was a huge, costly dickstroke to Matt Wilson and his attempt at getting in to Hollywood. They don't even live in Washington, they run the company from California because he care's more about being in film.

>but considering that cost of living is ridiculous in the area, it's very likely that it was a pay issue.
They pay absolute bottom dollar for people because they rely on the 'there will always be nerds to who 'love the industry' and will work for shit pay' ala Pagani. Meanwhile DC is working for some British company

>>54685566
You know I really like the game but that makes sense to me.

I hope the game doesn't sink. Least of all by freaking 40K. I mean you can say a ton of shitty things about PP but they are still only a small quarter of what GW is and does (Even the "Good" stuff now)

>>54685589
>Level 7 was a huge, costly dickstroke to Matt Wilson and his attempt at getting in to Hollywood.

What?

>>54685647
He's a creative whose ultimate goal has been getting in to film. He almost managed to get Monsterpocalypse a movie deal but had to settle for that LEVEL 7 shortfilm and that pretty cool cgi Warmachine movie

>>54685674
Now it's kinda starting to make sense. I'm wondering what positive thing could happen to right the ship. I don't like the "Go out of buisness and get bought out" bit because too often the first part happens and then it's just in a warehouse forever, or the latter happens and its not even a good new shake.

>>54685734
The game will be around, if anything you will see participation in stores get taken over by other games and dwindle. The company will always be around as well, it may get smaller or do less things but it won't go away.

>>54685750
Well goddammit, that smarts. It always stings to see a company have a real chance of contending shoot itself in the foot. I don't want it to become one of those games that occupy 1/4 of a shelf and gets played by 2 guys every other Wednesday. And then one of those two guys is me.

What do you think PP could do to attract more players back?

>>54685825
>What do you think PP could do to attract more players back?

Make a new edition and stop sucking.

>>54686421
I get why it's really hard now. With that kind of deep understanding, a person could make the best game in history.

>>54686617
Do you have a point?

>>54686670
That "Make it betterer" isn't really good design intentions.

>>54687138
>something sucks
>trying to fixing it is not good intentions.

Jesus Christ, fine, let the company die. Nothing of value will be lost.

Holy fucking shit.

>>54687424
People on 4chan have the reading comprehension of a gnat.

>"I want the game to be better?"
>"How? Smoother gameplay? Wider appeal? Appeal stronger to a smaller audience? More fluff or systems based? How do you plan on implementing it at all? How do you plan to implement any of the following without pissing off all the competitive fans? What about the more casual fans?"
>"Just make it betterer!"

>>54687424
I don't know how your proposal will fix anything
>just like make new edition lmao
and do WHAT in the new edition? What would a new edition do that CID wouldn't?

>>54687490
have a set and actually completed core rule and a even starting ground.

>>54687517
>have a set and actually completed core rule
They have that now. Why do they need a brand new edition to rewrite the book they already fix?

>>54687517
Fucking brilliant.

Applause everybody! We gots the genius walking through!

>>54687533
I mean even the most die-hard complaints I haven't heard addressed to the core rules.

>>54687542
Are you having a stroke?

>>54687598
It sometimes feels this way on this image board.

>>54687595
power attack rules are anemic and have inconsistencies they introduced in the edition.

This edition actually required a fix on the stationary/knockdown/engagement. It's pretty impressive to fuck up something that's worked over a decade.
Themes had to consider allowing Mercs, something which was made to avoid taking mercs and sticking to an actual fucking theme.
It's a fucking year and still no full releases on the command books and uneven number of themes even among the core rules.

It's so shit that 40k of all things have taken the playerbase.
That's fucking embarrassing

>>54687649
>power attack rules are anemic and have inconsistencies they introduced in the edition.
>This edition actually required a fix on the stationary/knockdown/engagement. It's pretty impressive to fuck up something that's worked over a decade.
They fixed those though
>Themes had to consider allowing Mercs, something which was made to avoid taking mercs and sticking to an actual fucking theme.
Nothing has changed yet, it was an idea they brought back in to reconsider
>It's a fucking year and still no full releases on the command books and uneven number of themes even among the core rules.
It's a shame, but books are a bit redundant due to the fact that rules can change with CID and errata's.
As for themes, everyone but Cryiss has two themes now (Skorne's second one is in CID). The uneven number of themes doesn't seem to be a big issue

Seems to me like you're just looking for shit to complain about, and outdated shit at that.

>>54668345

Great job making a "non-shitpost" thread you stupid fuck.

>>54687836
?

>>54687859
This thread was made to avoid having to engage one that was created purely to attract shitposters.

Hey guys, you know what I've figured out?

This game isn't dead, you stupid autistic shit heads bitching about the game and you stupid autistic shit heads who won't stop replying to the stupid autistic shit heads bitching about the game just make everyone think it is.

Do you dumb little faggots need your own containment board? If you're so unahppy with the game, then stay the fuck out of the generals. I know that's hard for you crying little pissants, but just don't click the reply button on the thread. Once you can get that concept through your retard brains, these threads will be a lot better.

>>54687711
It's been patched and every patch reveals yet another hole. This is best seen in things like CIDs where the number of models being worked on keep on increasing because models and rules don't exist in a vacuum.

It's a bloated mess and it needs to start at clean slate. For people that left the game to actually take a look at it again, and for newer people because new edition always draw newbloods in.

They can't do it now because it's only been a year, but they do need to kill this thing fast. If they are gonna again make a shitty product, at least the new rule confusion will keep the negative buzz down enough to have made some money at start.

Also they will need to keep their promises small, but actually kept, instead of the flip flopping shit they've been doing for a year.

Also dump warroom completely. Shitty app, shitty company, shitty update, shitty price.

>>54687873
>This game isn't dead
I know. mkiii should die though.

>>54687871

The other thread had the exact same opening text as this one, shitlord. Literally the only thing about it even slightly provocative was that in the previous thread someone said something like "NEW THREAD FOR GRYMKIN ONLY!" or something like that after a bunch of autistic fucks spent the whole thread bitching about Grymkin.

>>54687890

No, it shouldn't. If you think it should, go make your own thread about it and quit shitting up this one because that is all you're doing. Your opinion isn't going to change a thing.

>>54687910
Your opinion isn't going to make things better either. So what you gonna do man?

>>54687874
>It's been patched and every patch reveals yet another hole
What holes in the core rules are being revealed through the Errata?
>This is best seen in things like CIDs where the number of models being worked on keep on increasing because models and rules don't exist in a vacuum.
How is this an issue
>It's a bloated mess and it needs to start at clean slate
>bloated
Fucking what? They removed a bunch of stuff from MK.2, how can you call MK.3 bloated compared to MK.2?

>>54687936

I have no answer to this, but I still wish you'd quit bitching. There's enough of it.

>>54687902
The other thread was a guildball thread, anon. I made this one because people were asking for it in the last thread.

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>>54687952

>>54687873
Oh hey Will Shick is back

>>54675585
>>54682316

Thank you. Followup question: would it be a good idea to limit the warcaster's power a bit by having him take a non-combat secondary class?

So how good is a Mammoth with Makeda3? Grievous Wounds on its cannons feels like it would be strong as fuck since you can take heavies out of the game without needing to kill them.

>>54685427
Talk to ex employees at MOST companies and they'll doomsay. I used to work at a Canadian-only retail company and I'm surprised they manage to run at all; that doesn't change the fact that my old boss just bought all three of his kids Mercedes sportscars.

>>54690854
What are you even trying to say, shill?

>constant job openings due to leaving
>known for underpaying
>withering away and total removal of Christmas bonus
>increasing reliance on temp workers
>DC out

An ex employee doesn't doomsay because they're ex employees, they're ex employees because of the shit they 'doomsay' about

>>54687874
>It's a bloated mess and it needs to start at clean slate.
This part's interesting. I don't think the core rules (or even the special rules, in aggregate) are bloated... they actually did a reasonable job streamlining in the transition. The core game is probably easier to play now than it's ever been. "Bloated" is like the end of Mk1... every single card having unique rules with a million little contradictions and exceptions and bizarre interactions everywhere.

BUT there are a lot of models. Like, a ludicrous number of models. It's become more than even fairly-serious players can keep track of. And it's only going to keep growing. Part of the metagame used to be knowing all the models and interactions and being able to play them out in your head. Now I don't even know if that's possible... I can plan for TYPES of lists I'll face, but there's near 100% certainty that any tournament I attend will include lists and casters I've never faced, sometimes lists I've never even HEARD of. This slowly but surely is pushing the game toward more dark-horsing. Surprise has always been powerful, and surprise has become the norm rather than the exception.

>Also dump warroom completely. Shitty app, shitty company, shitty update, shitty price.
This, at least, we can agree on.

Hey guys. I tried getting into Warmachine a while back, and had difficulty getting friends into it. It's great, and I love the models, the ideas, everything. How can I sell it to others compared to different wargames? Also, the last I played was Mk2 I believe, can someone give me a brief rundown of the changes between mk2 and 3? Important new stuff, stuff that's removed, etc.

>>54688742
Depends entirely on the class, noble isn't a good idea whatsoever
Mechanic arcane or not can help
Spy is alright too

>>54694799
Half the power attacks are gone. You can't charge or power attack your own guys anymore.

Play in theme or bust.

No more cards.

>>54695586
My character is arcanist+arcane mechanic so that's a no go. How about Rhulic Trader? Cheaper shit is always nice.

>>54698338
Seaforth trader is nice just know how you will be the guy the party looks to to get better deals on Warjacks. And that they will want you to try and get the best deal. Also you're at the xp for a third career?

>>54698338
Try in combat to just support spell sling and help the front liners pick off enemies with one hit point left. Unless they need the feat obviously.

>>54698941
>Also you're at the xp for a third career?

The game hasn't started yet. Is arcanist+arcane mechanic illegal somehow?

Also, I know it's impossible for humans to use dwarf warjacks, but is it also impossible the other way around?

>>54698941
>>54698989
Oh, I get it now. I should have specified, we're thinking of making the warcaster take Searforge Trader as his second class because warcaster is already such a powerful combat class. I'm not playing the warcaster.

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>>54694799
If you like Jacks in warmachine you can mostly run them without gimping yourself.
You can get the cards free at cards.privateerpress.com
Most factions in the average player level are well balanced between each other and you can make most of the stuff work in a non extremely competitve setting.
Themes are a mixed bag for some people but I think that the more the game progresses the better this will be.
i only have experience with the warmachine part of the game so cannot really speak about hordes.

>>54693699
The bloat is the sheer number of revisions and documents that get out dated and waded through.

At this point most things you buy, you will need to expect that what you have been given is different from what you got on release. The one source that should be perfectly absolute is warroom and that's garbage hidden behind a paywall.

>>54699365
The latest version of the cards are available for free though.
I agree that War Room is crap but there is the excellent conflictchamber and the free cards so you really do not need to bother with it.
I am not sure if the downloadable rules from the main site are updated.

>>54699392
I don't count conflict chamber. If anything it's just the further sign of the official army builder sucking.

>>54699216
If the dwarf warjack is fitted with a normal human cortex why couldn't they?

>>54699462
>If the dwarf warjack is fitted with a normal human cortex

Can you do that? I don't think you can do that.

>>54699331
Military officer is better, so is ranger and scout for more useful general skill. Scout is a lot better than ranger and military officer is good. Seaforge trader is nice for an intellectual character because it should be common place to use int for bartering prices and all that. Your warcaster needs to be able to stay in the fight in protracted combats because they're real helpful but if they were to choose Seaforge trader they're combat abilities are all focused on warcaster which the base warcaster ain't a killing machine it's got a nice spell list but it's not one of the nation specific warcasters.

>>54699490
>>54699462
You can't dwarves can only command warjacks made of dwarves and humans can only command ones made for humans excluding CoC.

>>54699502
>but it's not one of the nation specific warcasters.

It's the Rhulic Warcaster from NQ #49. Should have specified that.

>>54699535
Rhulic war caster has nice spells but doesn't change much after that. Seaforge trader adds another layer for this player t have to deal with and control so he's got to balance being good at combat, magic and social stuff which shouldn't be.

>>54700055
So how about Rhulic warcaster+military officer? Sounds to me like basically Ossrum.

>>54700055
>so he's got to balance being good at combat, magic and social stuff which shouldn't be.

Yeah. We're trying to dilute the fighting power of the character because the gm intends to let him get warjacks.

(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Despoiler [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]

(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Agonizer [6]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Mammoth [38]
- Molik Karn [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]

So how am I looking? Memelicious?

>>54687873
no need to get triggered when just one shitty game is dead. R.I.P.

>>54690854
that's nice, doesn't have anything to do with warmachine & pp though, future is going to be rough downhill for them

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Playing this later today. Take bets.

>>54702145
Can't wrex the thex

>>54700211
>>54700402
Military officer+War caster means he's can help provide for you feat points and still get some extra skills. Battle plans are useful as well.

War casters with Jacks need extra combat so they can hold there own. Because it helps being able to attack and beat things up while your jack tangles with something bigger.

If your gm starts him off with basic rhulic jack it'll need some more focus in order to be effective which means less spell casting for your war caster.

>>54700782
Need more Archidons for secret assassination tech

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I'm trying to think of a way to make a gunline heavy Grymkin army work, mostly just because I really like the look, theme, and backstory of the Hollowmen and Lantern Man. I was thinking something like...

Wanderer (fog wall AOE that friendlies can see through)
2 Frightmares (decent acid AOE)
Cage Rager (for arc node)
Death Knell (duh)
2 Hollowmen + UAs
Twilight Sisters for bringing boys back
Lord Longfellow (duh)

What to fill the last bit of points with? What to change? Is this even viable, or am I beating my head against a wall here?

>>54706672
KoN does cloudwall better. Wanderer can only have one 4". Fog of War/Starcrossed isn't significant enough for Hollowmen to see benefits at 12/12. Same can arguably be said for Death knell.

Arguably though, you'll want to decide Beast-heavy or infantry heavy first because you could do the concept either way.

>>54707333

Sorry if this is a dumb question but where does it say Wanderer only gets one AOE cloud? Neither his nor KoN's spell descriptions specify how many effects they can have in play.

>>54707474
>Wanderer
Veil of Mists is an Upkeep. You can only have one instance of a upkeep active at a time. That said, you can keep that instance active on a later turn by spending 1 fury to "upkeep" it.

>King of Nothing
Burning Ash has a duration of a round. Its temporary, he can't extend its period by spending a focus - but he can have multiple active at once.

>>54700782
>beast-heavy Skorne
No.

>>54708084
>beast-heavy
You mean the Makeda list? It's all about grievous wounds on the Mammoth, that's all.

>>54706672
The hollowmen don't seem all that amazing to me from what I've seen/played
12/12 means they die to a stiff breeze and they completely crumble if you manage to kill the Laternman
Maybe I'm missing something

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>>54668530

>>54707632

Ah, okay. I'm still fairly new if you couldn't tell. Thank you sir.

>>54711480

They do die pretty easily and the rest of their stats are nothing amazing. Spd 5 Rat 5 Rng 10 Pow 11, eyeless sight and CRA, and apparition. So not terrible, but really nothing to write home about.

Honestly I just like their aesthetic and their backstory, that's why I was wondering if I was just torturing myself trying to make them work as such a big part of the list.

>>54712576
Granted, I'm on the other side of the table, so this isn't from the perspective of a Grymkin player

>>54712192
This is really cool and its a shame its not official.

>>54711480
Sometimes you need some guns I guess?

I assume they were carefully balanced, because having a unit capable of restocking itself from 17" away seems powerful.

Personally, I would rather invest their points into Lord Longfellow and the leaked Sniper guy.

>>54712973
>the leaked Sniper guy

Do tell, anon

>>54713010
I didn't save the image and only remember that he inflicts unstable (the berserker explody-rule) on Warjacks he hits.

Try checking the latest insiders? It was drawn in the same way as the sketches they always put in those.

>>54713010
>>54713049
It's the new Grymkin solo, Holden.

On the note of Grymkin, where in War Room are the rules for the Dreamer's Phantasms? Dreamer card just tells when they come in but doesn't say what they actually do.

>>54712973
>I assume they were carefully balanced
Playtested for at least 3 years.

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>>54713435

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>>54713010
Hollow Holden. From what I remember of the rules he had Sacrificial Pawn[Hollowmen]. He could give unstable to warjacks, and prevent fury use in Warbeasts and some other third thing and could fire twice.

His backstory is even sadder in my opinion. He was meant to be one of the OWs backup plans to take out the Grymkin in case they backfired.

To make a long story short the Heretic didn't like that.
From what it appears on the model, Holden is still resisting somewhat.

What determined his fate was a massive event at lock and load that the grymkin won.

>>54715335

Oh, that's pretty cool. When the model comes out I'll probably leave the gremlin off the back though.

>>54706672
>>54707333
>>54711480
>>54712722

Alright, how's this look to you guys?

Bump in the Night
King of Nothing
x2 Frightmare
Cage Rager
Death Knell
Lord Longfellow
x3 Cask Imp
x2 Hollowmen + UA
Mad Caps
Twilight Sisters
x2 Murder Crows

75 points

>>54700782

It looks sensible, anon. Let us all take a moment to dwell on the irony of Nihilators showing up in a Mordikaar list as a hollow unit.

>>54715335
Holden the Hollowed
>Grymkin Model
Spd 7, Str 4, Mat 5, Rat 7, Def 15, Arm 13, Cmd 7
Damage boxes 5
PC: 4
FA: C
Small Base

Apparition
Prowl
Sacrifician Pawn [Hollowmen]
Eyeless Sight

>Trench Knife
Rng 0.5", Pow 3, PS 7

>Hunting Rifle
Rng 14, Rof 1, Pow 10, Damage Type: Magical, Attack Type: Deadly Shot, Inflict Pain, Uncanny Precision (warjack hit gains unstable and cannot be used to channel spells)

>>54715714
>Bump in the Night
>King of Nothing
>x2 Frightmare
>Cage
Cutting in kinda sharp with the fury eh? I mean loose one by accident and thats arounds - 1 to 2 clouds right then and there.

Maybe another frightmare?

>>54715949
What's the irony? I'd take Karax but for 4 points Nihilators get built in tough, +1DEF which is relevant with the feat, +2MAT and +2PS. Against infantry they cleave through shit, and they can put damage on heavies. They're not really that bad for their points.

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>>54690355

Haven't tried it yet, sounds cute but not sure how good it'll actually be. You'd need a RAT fixer for the big lug though, otherwise you'll be boosting a lot of those RAT 4 shots if you're going against targets with more than DEF 10.

>>54717318

They used to be a first-billing unit, hogging revives, with somebody else getting Hollow duty.

>>54717381
They're a catch-22 when you push them forwards. You have to deal with them because they're a big threat, but if you kill them all you're looking at a 17 fury Mordikaar next turn who can spam Essence Blast off Ferox.

>>54717362
>You'd need a RAT fixer for the big lug though
Yeah that doesn't actually exist in Skorne in the first place. Willbreaker is as good as it gets. Counterblast on Makeda is pretty relevant too though. If your heavy has a bit of damage on it, Makeda's swing could easily blow something off it because of Vortex of Destruction.

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>>54716089
>>54715335
>>54713084
>>54713049
>>54713010
>>54712973
You get his card in the Grymkin release event. He's pretty cool right now but he'll get toned down in cid

>>54718916
>>54716089
So this then:

Holden the Hollowed
>Grymkin Model
Spd 6, Str 6, Mat 6, Rat 7, Def 13, Arm 13, Cmd 7
Damage boxes 5
PC: 5
FA: C
Small Base

Apparition
Prowl
Sacrifician Pawn [Hollowmen]
Eyeless Sight

>Trench Knife
Rng 0.5", Pow 3, PS 9

>Hunting Rifle
Rng 14, Rof 1, Pow 10, Damage Type: Magical, Blessed, Attack Type: Deadly Shot, Inflict Pain, Uncanny Precision (warjack hit gains unstable and cannot be used to channel spells)

>>54719131
Yes, it was posted earlier. I was sharing that you can get the physical card for him and his Merc version.

>>54719263
I'd be running un-Grymraped Holden for fun myself, but with so many Grymkin players popping up here I think they'd get a bit cranky about an "unofficial" hard countering solo.

>>54685196
Are you the guy that worked in the warehouse?

>>54719572
That dude from like 2012?

>>54719387
You can only play him in the release event

I just got a box of Ryssovass Defenders as a gift. Which caster actually wants these guys around instead of Sentinels?
I'm thinking Kaelyssa for Blur and her feat.

>>54722259
I've been using them with Goreshade4, but I can't say he's the best caster out there.

>>54722259
Elara 2 is great with them as she fixes their lack of pathfinder with feat and can help them hit harder with scything touch. Most importantly is they need a Lys healer or House shyeel artificer., defensive line is great but against range its worthless and Lys healer lets them keep their touch shenanigans and spread out as well. Also they hate infantry swarms get some manticores or and AFG with them to help thin the heard and so they won't get jammed. Also oddly enough if you like them run them with Rahn in a list replacing sentinels, here is why cont.

>>54722259
>>54722750
Cont.
Rahn likes them not for what they do but because they give a reason to bring Nys Priests and during feat turn having a SP6 auto boosted in both attack and damage is great.

>>54724293
Blech forgot my list

Adeptis Rahn
Chimera
Helios
Sylys
Priest of Nyssor
Arcanist Mechanic
House Shyeel Artificer
House Shyeel Arcanists
House Shyeel Battle Mages
House Shyeel Battle Mages
Ryovass Defenders (Max)
Souless Escort

I like helios because just incase you can manuever pieces that much further or out of the way and he can clean up on colossals which is major issue for Rahn list. Also I didn't add Aeylth vyr Because the with the artificer and force master blast damage shouldn't be a problem

>>54724222
>MAT 7 P+S 17 Combo Smite
Sweet Scyrah, how did I not notice this before?
Something like this, then:

Elara, Death's Shadow - WJ: +28
- Fane Knight Guardian - PC: 4
- Imperatus - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22)
- Manticore - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Chimera - PC: 8

Aelyth Vyr, Blade of Nyssor - PC: 5
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
House Shyeel Artificer - PC: 5
Lys Healer - PC: 3
Houseguard Thane - PC: 4

Ryssovass Defenders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
- Soulless Escort - PC: 1

I could also drop some solos to marshal a light with the Artificer and/or slot a third Mechanik.

>>54724522
Yep its a great start be sure to remember that Elara doesn't protect her troops well so watch out for spells and hazards, also as mentioned before gunlines are you enemies. How ever and this is if you are want to get the models, replace Houseguard Hablerdiers and the Thane with House Ellowyr swordsman, they have comparable speed but I like better as a first wave/ jam unit because of def 15 against shooting and defensive strike so if they try to counter jam or clear with another unit you get to take out their models first. Use a strategic Scything touch on a model and watch as your opponet has to either try and hit it first ( triggering your own effective pow 14 strike or strikes if properly positioned) or have to avoid that point. And they Mulch through infantry with mat 7 cleave and parry they are a surprisingly annoyance for your opponent.

>>54722259
https://conflictchamber.com/#c5201bhH4E4E1g3y3yhK75hO3uhPdK

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points

(Goreshade 4) Lord Ghyrrshyld, The Forgiven [+28]
- Banshee [18]
- Banshee [18]
- Chimera [8]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Priest of Nyssor [4]
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]
Ryssovass Defenders (max) [16]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Spears of Scyrah [9]
- Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander [6]

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Hmm hey /WMG/ Have a painting question for you, I want to give my Thyron a white ranger like paint scheme but I don't know if i should paint his chest black and stomach gold, mostly because if I do so I think it will clash with his pants and Cloth which I am also thinking of painting black.

>>54725032
Don't do it. No one cares about the reference and no one cares about painting in WMHs. If it concerns you don't do it.

>>54725032
If you're doing the fabric in black/dark grey, I'd skip matching the chest to the reference and just going all gold for his torso. Different materials are best kept in distinct or contrasting colors and shades to make them stand out as different things.

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>>54724841
>Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]
As much as I love Nyss, I refuse to buy that unit until they get resculpted or I find a suitable model line to convert into them. Their current butterface is out of control.

>>54726247
I'm really glad for these guys not being worth their points at all.

>>54726247
What about the new Swordsmen that were released? Will they do as a counts as?

>>54729803
Far too distinctive to modify for play side by side with a regular unit of themselves.

When exactly does stationary expire?

For example, if I become stationary during my opponent's turn because I got hit by a Juggernaut Free Strike, will the model hit still be stationary during my next turn?

>>54732840
You will unfreeze at your own next turn. It last a round.

>>54732840
The ability/spell/whatever that causes stationary will define the duration. In the case of the Juggernaut's Crit Freeze, it states that it lasts one round.

>>54732874
>>54733525
So freezing something during an opponents turn with effects like Goreshade 4's feat is generally just worse than freezing them immediately (Sorscha1 feat), because you get an additional turn out of it?

>>54733683
There's no additional turn. It's one round. 1 ROUND

Anybody else still follow along with WMH but not actually play it? I recently transferred to a new area, and I haven't yet determined if I lost interest in the game because the game or the meta I was in. Previous group had no interest in campaigns, artwork, custom objective markers or anything that wasn't a steamroller every month. That sort of lack in creativity and imagination just drains the shit out of me to be around.

>>54733780
Yes, but if I get frozen during the opponents turn, I can just activate normally on my next turn. If I get frozen during my opponents turn however, I'm locked in place during my opponents turn and my own turn.

>>54734167
*If I get frozen during my turn.

Words are hard, sorry.

>>54733846
I live in an extremely isolated community where most of the regular players have been at it for over a decade, and have a weird inner circle vibe going on. Trying to get into the game right before Mk3 was a nightmare, since the one guy who is most vocal about wanting to run demos and grow the community is also the guy who takes banespam or equally uninteractive skew and laughs/talks shit about his opponent's "bad plays" during learning games.

As a result, I typically just sit back and gradually paint my shit while picking up the occasional game with my two buddies or the rare new player who doesn't get driven out by their first day in the LGS.

>>54734167
No you idiot.
1 fucking round.
You are frozen in your turn and opponent's turn no matter when you do because two turns for each side constitute a round.

>>54735215
>Get frozen during my own turn after the activation:
My turn in which I become stationary: I finished doing my stuff and now can't move
Opponents turn: He can hit me, because I'm frozen
My next turn: I'm no longer frozen and can do whatever

>Get frozen during my opponents turn
Opponents freezing turn: My stuff becomes stationary and opponent can abuse it
My turn: My stuff is still stationary and can't do anything
Opponents turn: Nothing is stationary anymore, but it still didn't move
My turn: I can finally move my models

Uh, one of these scenarios is a lot better than the other?

>>54735315
I guarantee that it will not make a difference. Something that can survive that long can shake stationary.

It's completely irrelevant.

>>54735385
No it's not. There's a big difference between "my things can do stuff before they become easier to hit for my opponent" vs "my stuff can't do anything for 3 turns"

Goreshade4 can't timewalk Haley, but Sorscha1 can purely based on mechanics.

>>54735431
Why aren't you doing anything on the third turn?

>>54735551
Opponents turn
your turn
opponents turn again

3 turns

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Reposting cool dudes from elsewhere

>>54735572
So you lose out on 1 turn. Not sure why this is riling you up so much.

>>54736653
He's angered by the idea of eating Crit Freeze from a free strike and sitting out a turn, never mind having to survive the free strike or the option to not provoke a free strike from a Khador heavy like a dumbass

Actually is there even a feat that freezes you when you end your activation in (so and so's) command range?
The only freezing related feat I can remember is Sorcha1, but that happens during her turn.

>>54737071
4shade freezes models that end their activation within 2" of a friendly model in his command range.
This does nothing to stop his models from being killed before the effect triggers.

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What is all the fuss about?

Isn't a Rocketter basically just shooting a non-charging Sentinel with shitty MAT into something?

And why is nobody just shooting them back? I mean, they are living 12/13 single wound models without native tough. Not exactly what I consider durable against a POW 10 gun...

>>54738470
I think it's because you can have so many
http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/1501
Look at these lists, 8-9 rockets in each

>>54738470
Boosted POW 12s do damage. A bunch of boosted POW 12s do a lot of damage. Toss in a damage buff (like Signs and Portents or Butcher1 feat) and you're doing a lot more damage.

As for their RAT, you mostly see Rocket spam under Vlad1 who has Signs and Portents to make them more accurate. Also, the things they want to be shooting at are high ARM and those things tend to also be lower on DEF anyway.

They've also got pretty significant range which lets them start putting out attacks from further out and insulates against reprisals.

>>54735056

Sounds kind of like what my infinity meta turned into.

Fuck I hate shitters. Also your PG sounds like he was awful at the job.

>>54671749
Very low amounts of Gaspy/Denny lewds

>>54719572
I was in the warehouse and given the types of people that were out in the warehouse I imagine someone else would post here but I don't know who you're talking about.

>>54719804
What did the warehouse guy from 2012 say?

>>54740208
The exact same thing that all 'ex employees' that post on here say

>>54741085
Which was?

>>54687874
>Also dump warroom completely. Shitty app, shitty company, shitty update, shitty price.
All the yes. When shitty, developed on a weekend, freeware fan army building apps outdo your 90 dollar mobile only app, you know you have a fucking problem.

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>>54687951
>Fucking what? They removed a bunch of stuff from MK.2, how can you call MK.3 bloated compared to MK.2?
Kinda want a response to this; my beef is theme forces ruining the fun I had in mk2; I have no idea what's wrong with mk3 core rules.

>>54741281
The errata document is already extensive, theme forces are adding more rules which in turn aren't stable/fast/balanced enough to actually improve the game quality for newer or casual players and the CID is now adding more layers of alterations and addendum to the rules which, unless you are dedicated to following, you aren't going to be able to keep up.

I know it's a minor point, but you should see the number of new players on facebook groups asking what the number icon on the cards mean now. It's not in the core rulebook. That's how disjointed the rule collection has become.

Hell, look at OP's links. PP's Theme Forces Rules pdf doesn't actually have all the theme forces. What's the point of making people fish for data on multiple resources? We got themes in CID, we get themes on the command book, we get themes in pdfs, I'm not sure if they show up on NQ anymore, but god, I fucking hope not.

As for rules being removed, mkiii added more rules to individual models, especially casters. Mkii sought to do away with uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness but now PP has said that they wanted to have every warnoun have something unique to them.

>>54741676
Thanks for the rundown; it sounds like a shitty situation. I remember mk2 being amazing, why even go to the new edition? Anything good about it?

>>54741703
The new edition was made because the sales were dipping near the end of mkii and new edition always generates new interests.

Any saving grace for mkiii is that it's less controlled by PP's retarded hands.

>>54741676
Huh, just noticed the base size number icon! Why the fuck put it up at the top with the actual rules the model has and not down next to the points costs?

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>>54738535


On feat turn those rockets are rolling 4d6 for Damage, there is also plenty of knock down in the list. Accuracy on big targets is no problem.

>>54742535
>Why the fuck put it up at the top with the actual rules the model has and not down next to the points costs?
I asked myself the same thing. The reason is that there are units with different base sizes among their members.

>>54743753
>The reason is that there are units with different base sizes among their members.
That... that actually makes sense.

>>54741676
>I'm not sure if they show up on NQ anymore, but god, I fucking hope not.
I've got bad news: that's their new home.

>>54717459

Krea works as a stun gun vs Hordes as well.

>>54741703

Bean counters panicked because of a sales dip and they rushed Mk3 forwards about 18 months.

>>54741676
>you should see the number of new players on facebook groups asking what the number icon on the cards mean now
Is in there. People just don't know how to fucking read

>>54745991
Technically, it's not in the printed book, simply because that change happened after the launch, but yes it is in the pdf version.

>>54741676
>PP's Theme Forces Rules pdf doesn't actually have all the theme forces.
You may want to read what they're actually doing with the doc before complaining. There's a reason not everything is in there right away.

Really all your complaints are easily answered if you just follow the Insiders they do all the time

>>54741703
>>54741732
>>54745899
It was definitely a business decision that determined the release date (and was responsible for the game being such a mess this time last year), but it did give them the opportunity to implement some far-reaching changes from a technical side. Power Up, more granular points costs, Jack Marshal changes, 1" base melee range for heavies, etc. Unfortunate it got rushed out, but the edition now has started to mature. All the backlash also had the effect of giving us CID and a living book/cards, so I'm not complaining.

Most of the moves were incremental, not full overhaul (which is a good thing IMO). In a lot of ways, the end of Mk2 and current Mk3 look more alike than 2010 Mk2 and 2015 Mk2. A pretty substantial number of units barely even changed, outside of converting point cost.

>>54736235
How many different types of greatsword infantry do the elves have at this point? It feels like a big number.

It's kind of funny how themes "kill diversity", even though players worldwide are dusting off their never used Pikemen, Banez, Mage Hunters and what not.

I have seen a tier 1 Khador list with god damn Kossite Woodsmen of all things.

>>54746632
2? 3 if you count Nyss Hunters

>>54747110
>Meanwhile on the eastern side of the Bloodstained Marshes...

>>54746398
>The problem is that shit's scattered and you have to dig through multiple sources to get the complete picture
>Nah, son! Just sift through even more shit, That will solve the problem of having to sift through multiple shit!

>>54747110
You know what achieves the same effect? Actually making those things cost appropriately and be good.

>>54746632
3; Sentinals, Swordsmen, and Defenders.
Swordsmen are anti-troop with good shooting defense.
Sentinals are anti-ARM with lots of ARM and Vengeance
Defenders are anti-jack tarpits.

>>54746603
It came at the cost of the player base's goodwill and has done irreparable damage to the game's and PP's brand.

It also did some really bad damage to the playerbase, alot of people up and quit over it.

>>54748006
I walked away for over a year until CID gave me some interest in being able to prevent PP's fuckups from hitting the table.

Many others I know never came back though.

>>54747110
>never used
>banes
>mage hunters
wat

>>54747282
>Sentinels are anti-troop with average DEF but decent ARM against shooting and lots of attacks through Vengeance
>Sentinels are insane anti-ARM
>Sentinels are anti-jack tarpits because jacks don't want to go near them
Fixed that for you sweetie.

>>54747239
You can't really complain about changes to the game if you've deliberately chosen to be ignorant

>>54748278
Sentinels get gunned down like tools by snipers, are otherwise slow as fuck and perform really badly in infantry vs infantry matchups.

My local Ret player has stopped dropping Sentinels into me, because they never do anything against Khador.

The Swordsmen on the other hand are pretty annoying.

>>54748278
>>54748533
Swordsmen are great against jacks because DEF 14 forces most of them to boost, costing attacks and still potentially failing against Tough. Precision Strike lets them carve out systems.

Sentinals will kill infantry, sure, but DEF12 ARM17 doesn't save them from any decent charge or a lot of guns. Outside of the minifeat they just aren't that hard to kill and can be wiped out by cheaper infantry. Swordsmen are DEF15 against shooting and faster, plus they can get two swings.

Sentinals are good but they aren't as overwhelmingly good as the memes make them out to be.

>>54748657
*Defenders are great against jacks* shit why don't I proofread.

>>54748006
>>54748026
Oh, yeah, 100% agreed about the goodwill and community. The whole forced release thing was undoubtedly a mistake. Was just pointing out that, from a technical perspective, they've ironed out a lot of those bugs and rebuilt the foundation. They took a few steps backward, but the game still has a lot of potential, and hopefully can regain some of that trust over time. To my eye, their willingness to try something like CID suggests that they are aware they were headed in a bad direction and want to rectify it.

>>54748675
>they are aware they were headed in a bad direction and want to rectify it.
Having spoken to a bunch of developers this appears to be the case

Does anyone know when is CoC CID?

>>54715335
> Lock and Load event determined his fate
That seems like a pretty gullible view of the Holden BS. What was the alternative if they hadn't won?

>>54749848
They're not doing it anywhere near fast enough. And now they're saying that they're SLOWING DOWN the rate at which they release erratas. So many models are unplayable garbage and PP says they're doing erratas too fast. Fuck what the developers say.

>>54750360
>That seems like a pretty gullible view of the Holden BS. What was the alternative if they hadn't won?
...They had an alternative version of him that was a merc? Rules and all?

It was pretty good too. His shots removed incorporeal and stealth and some other stuff, and he was pretty tough and had that thing where he did +1d6 damage against grymkin.

And they would have shown HIS artwork and started working on a model for him later?

>>54750460
>They're not doing it anywhere near fast enough. And now they're saying that they're SLOWING DOWN the rate at which they release erratas. So many models are unplayable garbage and PP says they're doing erratas too fast. Fuck what the developers say.
There are also other people who complain otherwise.

Too many changes at once reduce consumer purchase confidence.

>>54733846
Yes, I'm still following it in the hopes of seeing something change (maybe with the new alternating activations stuff), but in the end the nature of the players is what will kill this game. Almost everyone you meet is god's gift to either game design or competitive ability. It's basically impossible to play a game that isn't 75 points and SR2017 "scenario".

>>54750460
I don't you're ever going to be happy then. Shit takes time to develop. They'll still be looking at older models when they're relevant in CID but that's not going to happen over night

Either be patient or go play something else

>>54750563
>Too many changes at once reduce consumer purchase confidence.
Yeah just look at all of those people who stopped buying video games because of patches.

>>54750618
>Shit takes time to develop
They've had over a year since release, and according to them another three before then. 4 years and still they haven't come up with a job for heavy infantry to do. 4 years and still the game is a shitstorm of list chicken. Last game I played me and my opponent made sure to check before packing our bags that our lists could actually play against each other.

>>54750619
>Yeah just look at all of those people who stopped buying video games because of patches.
That's because every figure has its own rules.

Should I buy Juggernaughts? Are they just good or too good? Cause if they are too good PP might just make then bad or average or make them do something different than before so I feel like a chump.

>>54750684
So instead of trying to fix the game you believe they should keep it a trainwreck just incase they hurt feefees in the short term?

>>54748373
>Complain that changes are too frequent and too numerous to keep track of
>Cockbreath says you can't complain if you've chosen not to keep track of it all

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=mtg,warmahordes

lul

>>54750923
>The made-up work that's never used in official marketing, documents, or statements has less search traffic than the most popular tg of all time.

Wow that's some damning evidence there bucko

>>54751004
Yeah because I'm sure WotC uses "mtg" all the time in their official marketing, documents, and statements, and thus are responsible for most of the hits. Maybe "warmahordes" would be searched up more if the game was more popular.

>>54750668
Are you blind? Have you not seen all the changes and new releases from the last year?

>>54750837
It's one of the first pages of the errata. If you can't read that or keep up with a few other changes you may be mentally challenged

>>54750723
>So instead of trying to fix the game you believe they should keep it a trainwreck just incase they hurt feefees in the short term?

Personally, I have no problems with the speed of changes, but yes. Technically what your saying is also just feefees.

But another reason that I think is way better is how meta adjusts.
Let's say you have a great infantry mulcher but it becomes less common because less infantry is used. So then some adjustments are made to a bunch of infantry and now they become more popular.

If you rush, the end result could be a buff to the mulcher and so infantry never makes a comeback because the mulcher was overbuffed.

>>54751098
Magic blows literally any tabletop game out of the water, comparing any common nickname for it to any nickname for Warmachine, let alone the dumbest one, is ridiculous. Oh wow, it's way more popular, just like it has been for a decade. Shit it even blows 40k out of the water and that's including searches that probably had nothing to do with the wargame. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=mtg,warmahordes,40k

Using comparisons to Magic to claim that Warmachine is failing is like using comparisons to Starbucks to show that my local deli is failing; they were never close to the same scale and they're barely in the same business.

>>54738470
Rocketeers are good against Cygnar. Apparently we can't have such things in this game. God forbid something can beat their Press feat to win major bitch.

>>54752010
>https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=mtg,warmahordes

To be fair though, just looking at "warmachine" over time shows a definite decline.

Here in the northeast we had packed, nearly 20 player SRs 2-3 times a month at any of the 5-6 active stores in a 50 mile radius of boston, plus very active WMH nights. Now it's not even 20% of that, SRs happen maybe once a month and frequently get cancelled last minute due to low attendance. And it's the same group of 5 hardcore players at each one.

I think a lot of the PP apologists need to acknowledge just how bad Mk3 hurt the game as a whole. When it was first announced people were excited for it and then PP just made truly epic misstep after misstep and I think it exposed most of the people who were really into it to just how ridiculously inept PP is under current leadership. It killed most of the interest in the game - hardcore players jumped ship, so there's no crowd to attract anyone, and casual players aren't going to paint 50 models to play a game with few players.

It just sucks. I never sold my models. I want this game not to suck, and I want PP get their head on straight.

>>54755116
I'm not making any claims for any positive or negative trends of the game, I'm just pointing out that using Magic the Gathering as a yardstick for wargaming is a ridiculous standard.

>>54755116
>I think a lot of the PP apologists need to acknowledge just how bad Mk3 hurt the game as a whole.

I'm just thinking why? What could be called the silver bullet of its problems? I'd say overall it has less than MKII. Or at least a better foundation for design then MKII.

For me, Id says it was that the very bad keynote. That's when I really saw salt flowing and anger stewing. That's where I think so much hatred towards the Grymkin comes from.

If it was like

"BAM BAM BAM all this stuff and direction (BTW also Grymkin)" people would be allot less pissed off.

Also, they should have released all their theme forces all at once and then added the models later.

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I have a Grymkin army for Warmahordes that I haven't really built or painted yet. I did build pic related today, and it got me thinking that some of these guys would look great if I converted/painted them with a Bloodborne theme.

>>54755705
Sure. The Grymkin really benefit from more overarching themes.

>>54755705

Whoops, forgot ideas.
I'm thinking Dread Rots, turn their heads into giant masses of eyeballs. Make the vines all over them something else, not sure what.
Lord Longfellow I don't think one would have to do a whole lot with, he already kinda looks like a hunter, just with too many arms. Which also fits the theme.

Any other ideas? I'm trying to think of some reason/excuse to use some Circle werewolf looking guys.

>>54755730

>NO FUN ALLOWED EVERYTHING YOU DO MUST WORK WITH GAME LORE

Uh huh sure thanks, move along now.

>>54755763
He was agreeing with you, and citing one of the major complaints with the faction that you'd be solving.

But be a shithead, I guess.

>>54755832

Oh. It read like sarcasm.

If that's true, then I apologize. Now, where do we stand on eyeball heads and wolf men?

>>54755832

Are you sure it wasn't sarcasm, anon?

>>54755763
>>54755861
>If that's true, then I apologize.
No problem.

Make the vines eyeball nerves. Lord Longfellow could be a corrupted Hunter.

Make the Wolves the Skin and Moans. Use the Circle wolves but add skins to them.

Of course a vital aspect of figuring out bloodborne is how to connect the casters to the theme.

>>54755905
I mean, if it's sarcasm it's not very well developed.

One of the most common complaints about Grymkin is that their themes are all over the place, while Bloodborne absolutely has a more unified theme in it's design.

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>>54755914
>Make the Wolves the Skin and Moans. Use the Circle wolves but add skins to them.

I could do this. Wouldn't be too hard, get some greenstuff and whatnot.

>Of course a vital aspect of figuring out bloodborne is how to connect the casters to the theme

The Wanderer is pretty hunter-ish looking.
With The Child, you could replace Dolly with another of the Circle wolves, and then sculpt a white ribbon into the girl's hair for a more depressing reference.

Other than that, nothing. Old Witch is silly looking, Heretic would just require too much work to even bother (the armor...), King of Nothing isn't too far off the mark but still. That's gonna be tough.

I'm loving how many of the models already fit with this in terms of aesthetics though. Cage Rager, Gorehound (will definitely need some sculpted fur though), Frightmare (that thing is fucking terrifying), Murder Crows, and Hollowmen.

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>>54755914
>>54756042
Big fuckin' shrouds

I only play the rpg anymore because nobody wants to actually play the wargame. Whatever.

>>54756042
>Old Witch is silly looking
Well as a Ruzkie she gives me a real mythology boner.

I would make it into a reference to the hubworld or something.

Have her be in a Wheelchair like Gehrman.

>>54757456
>tfw you will never wake up to Zevanna's home cooked cheburek sitting on stove waiting for you

My local shop has all privateer press stuff at 30% off and can move anything is this game dying?

>>54758713
the fringe communities are dying.

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>>54758102
Vlad remembers.

>>54755608
>Also, they should have released all their theme forces all at once and then added the models later.

Well, at L&L a couple of the devs were able to admit that part at least.

Idea for a Hordes mini faction:

Menoth gave humanity agriculture so a bunch of Menite farmers/peasants who've been given control over their beasts of burden.

Bulls/horses/hounds etc as warbeasts.

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>>54755608
>What could be called the silver bullet of its problems?
New edition. Mkiii by name is tainted.

Clear the baggage, actually write a coherent rule system that is properly tested. Reset the release schedule into something where everyone can get excited about instead of few people.

ditch warroom.
Either go back to cards or do html 5 infinity style, instead of having the worst of both worlds.

>>54688007
I only recognise half of these, what are the others?

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>>54765483
It's just random creations man, don't worry about it.

Hah, even the lists written by PP are just dumb spam shit over and over. Boring.

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-08-08-2017

>>54765252
We've already been over this. The core rules are fine now. Changing them for no reason wouldn't do shit. There's not enough reason for a mk.4.

>>54766268
Why do warmahordes players have this weird aversion to using more than one copy of a unit

>>54766557
Because spam and skews make for a boring game and are symptom/source of the game's imbalance.

>>54766497
>Changing them for no reason wouldn't do shit.
Mkiii have shown the contrary given the player drop. Rules matter for players. It's something even GW eventually had to learn.

>>54766497
The core rules are garbage being patched only by removing options instead of fixing problems. It's like a dumbed down version of Mk. II without the fun parts that let you skew games with creative strategies.

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>>54766822
What would you change oh mighty armchair game developer?

>>54766707
According to who?

>>54766862
Not that guy but power attacks should come back.

>>54766779
>>54766822
Alright, what's wrong with the core rules? NOT THEMES, the core rules specifically.

>>54766876
Everyone who hated end of mkii and mkiii Karchev. Everyone who hated Cryx.

Basically the entire playerbase

>>54755608
I honestly think Mk3 is beyond salvaging. It's one of those things where it's not really any worse than the previous edition but the way they rolled it out only served to alienate estasblished players, and the continued screwups just make it easier for those players to stay away.

The core problem - and I recognize that this is probably fundamentally unsolvable - is that PP leadership started to resent the fact that they were seen as essentially the MTG of minis games. They attracted the most competitive crowd, and like MTG any experienced, invested player is going to completely stomp any noob player - because that's how well-designed games work.

So they made changes to make the game more appealing to noobs, running under the assumption that hardcore players would stay. And honestly this was not a bad assumption until it was revealed during the faction previews that that the game's lead designer was pants-on-head retarded in his approach to balancing the game, which meant that a ton of these now-alienated hardcore players started looking at competitors PP didn't have at the height of its popularity. And fewer hardcore players meant there were no groups for the noobs they were going for to join. (In fact the only Mk3 success stories I have heard are groups completely made of new players popping up at stores that didn't have a huge warmachine following.)

They will likely never be able to make this game newbie-friendly. The game is not fun or balanced at low points levels, so new players generally have to quickly ramp up to 75pt levels. And because they're new they are likely to pick a lot of cool-looking-but-crap models because internal faction balance is as bad or worse than it was in Mk2. Which leads to frustration and ultimately abandonment. There are too many units per faction, too many rules per unit for anyone but the heavily invested to make sense of.

You know, I'm kind of wondering if we'll get Grymkin Charbeasts.

>>54766898
Well, existence of themes themselves are a problem but inability to charge/power attack your own thing is pretty stupid when killing yourself with other method is still valid.
Laser guided throws. It's the only power attack where you can direct an enemy model with precise placement. It's incongruous with itself and slam.

>>54766978
And that makes it beyond saving?

>>54766968
>character cage rager has four (4!) cages

>>54766915
>Hyperbole: the post

>>54767012
Given its current reputation, yes.
It's like 7thed 40k. You can bring back genestealer cult, updated magic heavy thousand sons, but at the end of the day, it's a garbage treated like garbage and importantly, perceived as garbage.

>>54767012
>>character cage rager has four (4!) cages
Ladies and Gentlemen we have our Child and Heretic Charbeast!

...Yes I'm labouring under the silly idea that Grymkin Charbeasts can Bond to more than one Warlock.

>>54767041
>t.cryxian karchev player

>>54766898
Realistically the core rules themselves aren't meaningfully different from Mk2, and that's the main problem. There are certainly differences, but few things that warranted an edition change. Mk3 was largely one big, poorly tested balance errata that served only to invalidate most of the popular lists of Mk2. You could see them testing the waters by killing EE and MMM late in Mk2, but that only worked because it killed one faction for all the other players to laugh at. When you fuck up everybody's stuff and don't give them much to compensate in terms of new toys. Hence the reintroduction of theme forces.

Then the slow-drip release and then dependence on theme forces just shows that PP didn't learn their lessons. Instead of fixing models, they release theme forces because needing to playtest N theme forces is easier to actually testing N^X different army compositions. It's their way of handling the bloat of the game, and it's not really making the game any more fun.

Which is really the long and short of it. Mk3 didn't make the game more fun. It was solely because sales were stagnating because of how wonky their internal balance was - by nerfing pretty much everything popular they figured they would drive sales of the things that suddenly looked better. Instead players proxied the stuff they were missing to try out Mk3, and then realized it wasn't worth investing in.

Dropping an entire faction (Skorne) and finally needing to make the embarassing admission that you didn't playtest your game by any reasonable standard was probably the final straw for consumer confidence in the game.

>>54767083
With such compelling arguments it's amazing everybody doesn't agree with you.

I play Ret

>>54766889
They're still here?

>>54766938
They wanted new players.

New players in 2008 had the choice between 40K and Warmahordes, and anyone who valued decent rules could see what the better option was. Warmahordes was cheaper to start and generally similar to 40K in terms of investment at the most popular points level.

10 years later your choice is not that easy and PP didn't take that into account. 40K is cheaper to start because of the popularity of Kill Team, and is now way more active than WMH. (Doesn't hurt that the models and lore are way better too). And then you have games like GB and Infinity that have solid rules, good competitive play, and a way, way lower buy-in. Or X-Wing and Armada which have a very familiar IP and no painting required.

PP simply underestimated their position in the market. They want so desperately to be GW, where you can release whatever bullshit you want and let the players balance it with house rules. But their IP just isn't that good. People played Mk2 because of the rules, and alienating Mk2 players just drove them to competitors.

>>54766822
>patch out overused and game-skewing abusable exploits
>WAAAAAH STOP REMOVING FEATURES, YOU'RE SHITTING ON MY FUN
I didn't know WarmaHordes was popular aming competitive Smash Bros. players.

>>54767235
>June 2015
>SRs every month, sometimes more than 20 people
>10 people minimum on Warmahordes night

>June 2016
>Still going strong
>Mk3 announced
>people generally excited for it

>June 2017
>last SR attempt was in march, only 7 players
>lucky to find one more player for WMH night
>One core group of 4 players rotate between stores

>>54766978
>>I Can't throw my own models any more
It severely affected the balance of the game. Any models that relied on High Defense was nullified because you could knock them down. It also meant you could extend your threat range by half the Strength of the throwing model. This allowed you to throw traditionally slow models into melee range with your caster or throw an arc node within range to assassinate.

The game was never built with this mechanic in mind, and I'm glad it's gone.

>>54767502
Problem being that skew was why people were playing the game. A single misstep means you get assassinated or your important heavy gets scrapped before it can do anything. Tiptoeing around popular skew lists and knowing how to counter them was the main appeal. If I wanted a beer and pretzels game I'd be painting space marines.

Take the skew out, and you take the fun out. Hence the drastic drop off in players.

>>54767611
Oh lordy. Please stop playing the same game as me.

>>54767555
That's a local problem and you, or someone in your area, needs to step up and fix it. For every community that's run into this problem there's another where people have stepped up and the community has grown

>>54767611
>Take the skew out, and you take the fun out. Hence the drastic drop off in players.

That's retarded. Skew just forces counterskew. Anything that's not capable of skewing just gets left in the dust.

Im a Khador player and I never found Defense skew any fun.

>>54767560
>The game was never built with this mechanic in mind
Well that's obviously not true. I think Prime Mk1 actually included an example of it. And if it wasn't intended, I imagine it would have been fixed sometime in the first twelve or so years of the game's life.

>>54766915
So scrubs and babies? Cool, glad we had this talk

>>54767888

>expecting people to step up after PP unceremoniously cancelled the PG program

>expecting that somehow a community organizer is going to make the local player base conveniently forget how many dumb decisions PP has made

>>54767934
I love how there's this persistent misconception among bad players that the only way to handle skew is with counterskew. With two lists you were still going to have bad matchups to play into and you couldn't rely on bringing a hard counter. Fuck, even the "hard counters" were rarely even that and could be played around, especially thanks to being able to win by assassination in a lopsided matchup.

>>54768350
Have fun with your dad community then? You have no room to complain and no one to blame but yourself. PP does a lot of stupid shit, but a community dying? That's on you and your locals

>>54756042
The Child needs to be a scratchbuilt of mergo's pram with the wet nurse hovering over it.

Agree on Wanderer and KoN already being in the right ballpark - they really only need a little enhancement.

Heretic I would robe up a little bit and try to convert into Micolash. Seems like it fits.

Dreamer is probably the toughest... I feel like there's potential there though, especially once you take her summons into account.

>>54768350
>expecting to get rewarded for working at keeping something you want to do going

>expecting to have a single person be in charge of a community out of the goodness of their heart instead of everyone stepping up and working out a schedule

holy christ. my communities have never had PGs, because none of us have ever been more into planning things than everyone else. I'm so sorry you need someone to spoonfeed you plans so you can play one of your hobbies.