/whg/ Warmahordes General

Grymkin are a lot more dependent on thier warcaster than some other factions. The infantry are decent but thier lack of options has them need thier warlock to be able to level the playing field with thier arcana. After that it depends on which caster you are using, since there are only two out Heretic and Child, it comes down to do you want to play a beast heavy army or an infantry heavy army.

>>54611359
I'd say they look to be pretty tough. They have some options that are just "Faction Icons" in other factions.

Infinitely spawning infantry (So really they can generate their own corpses if need be), a Arm Aura. Enrage, Resource re-allocation tools. Plus their beasts are already pretty self-sufficient on their own.

>>54611966
If you got the all in one army box then you will probably be playing infantry heavy at 50pts till the rest of thier releases come out. The heretic is does well with this and is a legit caster especially with arcana. I can't wait till murder crows get released and I can arc Fury onto an ambush unit. Still if you are looking for battle reports the PP has a decent one on YouTube with The child vs Axis that was pretty well done.

>>54612066
Yep and with imp spawn they can reasonably interrupt most jack spam.

>>54611359
Where is this game not dead ?

New theme stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZLbyizm40 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

Mk3 list building:http://conflictchamber.com

Warmahords chat:https://discord.gg/KmXzbwD

Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
http://textuploader <dot> com / d0thm

PP Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime

Latest Errata: January 2017
http://files.privateerpress.com/op/errata/WMH-Errata-January-2017-2.pdf

Theme Forces:
http://files.privateerpress.com/op/errata/Theme%20Forces.pdf

Steamroller Rules
http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments

Table of contents for all NQ issues
http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issues

Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Fluff wiki:
http://warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

MK3 RULES:
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime.pdf
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Primal.pdf
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web

Warmachine/Hordes Army Creator (WHAC) .apk
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk


>Mk3 Trollbloods Command
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/1tLOuOW7/file.html

>Mk3 Protectorate Command
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/LToez2J8/file.html

>Mk3 Circle Orboros Command
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/dAMPtJKy/file.html

>Mk3 Cygnar Command
http://www104.zippyshare.com/v/aG3otFxu/file.html

>Mk3 Legion of Everblight Command
http://www93.zippyshare.com/v/cJMBctzR/file.html

>Mk3 Khador Command
http://www92.zippyshare.com/v/JI62A5Ll/file.html

>Mk3 Cryx Command
http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/kAGpNygA/file.html

>Mk3 Retribution of Scyrah Command
http://www108.zippyshare.com/v/9gF1X7iU/file.html

>Mk3 Grymkin Command
http://www3.zippyshare.com/v/tBkUxma2/file.html

>Abridged Mk2 Lore

Gargantuans:
https://pastebin.com/XPKMKYUc

Exigence:
https://pastebin.com/6D1fwSgv

Devestaton:
http://pastebin.com/KxkzfnXj

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Are you ready anons?

Holden the Hollowed
>Grymkin Model
Spd 7, Str 4, Mat 5, Rat 7, Def 15, Arm 13, Cmd 7
Damage boxes 5
PC: 4
FA: C
Small Base

Apparition
Prowl
Sacrifician Pawn [Hollowmen]
Eyeless Sight

>Trench Knife
Rng 0.5", Pow 3, PS 7

>Hunting Rifle
Rng 14, Rof 1, Pow 10, Damage Type: Magical, Attack Type: Deadly Shot, Inflict Pain, Uncanny Precision (warjack hit gains unstable and cannot be used to channel spells)

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I kind of wish this guy would work for Grymkin. Because duh?

>>54611359

I had this idea for kind of a "death star". Not really feasible due to requiring a lot of setup and it would fall apart if your enemy had any kind of decent ranged game, but here goes:

King of Nothing
x5 Crabbits
x1 Dread Rots
x2 Piggybacks
x2 Death Knell

Run everyone right up the middle, Piggybacks shield wall in front of the Death Knells while getting +2 armor from each of them with Dread Rots plug up the gaps left by the Piggybacks (or generate corpses if the need arises). Crabbits just hop back and forth generating fury so King can spam fog walls and maybe take the occasional hit.

>>54612727
The +2 armor won't stack, not only that but you need a cage rager or two to are the spells KoN is going to get for free when your crabbits die.

>>54612782
>The +2 armor won't stack

Oh, I didn't realize that.
Alright, so I can lose one of the Death Knells and a unit of Crabbits to throw in 2 Cage Ragers.

>>54612540
Because he's a Thamarite which is an entirely different thing?
He's a necromancer not a fae.

>>54614448
Honestly, they also don't need dark shroud access. They hit ridiculously hard already.

>>54612375
Seems a little strong. And speed 7 on a hollowman seems weird.

>>54611359
>blatantly steal the design for something from another company
>Make it look shitty

Bravo PP.

>>54616013
And what company would that be?
If you say League I'm going to kick you in the nuts.

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>>54616212
I think he's talking about dreamer from Malifaux.

>>54616251
Whoah cute kiddo, you think the monsters breed him retarded?

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>>54616251
Also potentially a bit of this.

>>54616478
I like the 1E Storm the most, but I think that the 2E Snow is better. Ideally you would keep Storm and swap her out for the newer Snow.

So what's the general consensus on Not Malifux?

>>54616606
It's shit.

>>54616606
They should have focused on existing factions instead desu.

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>>54616606
It's a faction that needed an ass-pull to be justified lore-wise and aesthetic-wise.
It was Jason Soles idea.
Most of their names are witless puns.

The rules are pretty good but on all other measures, it' s shit.

>>54616953
From the mouth down these things just look like Troll Whelps.

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>>54616013
>>54616212
>>54616251
Which is funny because there is also "The Dreamer" in Grymkin.

>>54616640
I don't mind it because its meta warping. It's primarily infantry focused but doesn't require magic weapons or RFP like Ghost fleet.

So gives anti infantry options allot more spin. The way the Arcana

>>54616953

Honestly, MOST of them look Aesthetically FINE (Some like the Frightmare look great). It's the shitty puns and the few exceptions that really muck it up.

In my opinion, nightmare makes for a better "The Child" then the child does.

Really it's the Neigh Slayers, and Pigs that just look awful. It's the shitty puns that serve as the cherries.
So Il be heavily modding Neigh Slayers and the Pigs.

>>54616953
>It was Jason Soles idea.
Who is Jason Soles and why is he hated?

>>54617082
The guy that made warmachine and hordes a game.

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>>54617082
He's this guy. Lead developer for WMH, """"artist"""", supreme edgelord, and has a cat skeleton on his desk. He also has a shitty attitude towards the playerbase and REEEEEEs whenever criticised.

>>54615966
This little fucker will blow up you warjacks and you cant do nothing...

>>54617411

>comparing Soles to the Crow

Hey man, that's unfair, the Crow doesn't deserve that.

>>54617499
Shieldguard

Hi Anons

New to the game I wonder if the army box 2017 contains metal units or the new plastic duo kits. Same for the warbeasts. Thanks

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/featured-products/presale-legion-of-everblight-50-point-army-box-may-2017-pip73991.html

>>54616606
Pure garbage in terms of lore, theme and visual design. Rules are okay, but nothing that would make me want to play them even if they didn't suffer from the above shit.
The fact that they've been working on these fuckers for ages now, funneling resources away from other factions, and this is the best they could come up with is just insult to injury.

Really, thematically nothing about this faction works. Concepts that are great in small skirmish games and such, like the various horror elements, loose their impact on any scale larger than a few dudes: That Leatherface-looking motherfucker with the knife over there? A lot less scary when you and your twenty of your mates wear powerarmor and your best friend is a six-ton deathbot.
Nevermind that several other factions do the horror angle better. Everblight, Cryx, Blightwater, Cephalyx and even Skorne all are scarier and have a better unifying theme.

>>54616606
Stick with Malifaux or Chaos.

>>54618870
Should be the newest kits for the American boxes.

>>54617411
>and REEEEEEs whenever criticised
Is there a screencap collection of funny Solesposting somewhere?

>>54618870
Anything that doesn't have a plastic version is metal, plastic otherwise.

>>54612187
Most places it wasn't before?

>>54616606

I feel like they could have been a Circle Ouroboros addon. Between Circle and Grymkin you've basically got the complete 'Creepy shit in the woods' horror collection and the fluff wouldn't have required much at all to justify them.

I mean the Old Witch used to be Circle and she's now Grymkin. Have her go back to being Khador/Circle and bring them back with her.

>>54619117

They fight with Ouroboros for the 'Reaper' theme too, which hurts them.

>>54612237

Some of the older NQ issues are dead. Can someone re up? Looking for #28 in particular

>>54621658
Here ya go.
http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/Gl4jIyVv/file.html

>>54616013
Isn't that the case for a fair amount of Grymkin? I remember seeing one warlock compared to the Dark Apostle from 40k.

>>54616013
>>54621983

OK give Grymkin its shit, but are you saying they are not allowed to do ANYTHING visually that might look like something else?

That's like saying Wyrd Games ripped off Warmachine in their new Other Side Game because there are walking giant robots that have machine guns and tri walkers that look like the stuff of the Convergence.

>>54621983
Breaking news: everything looks a bit like something else if you squint hard enough.

>>54621074
Oh, good catch, I didn't even think of Circle's 'reaper'- ,'wild thing in the woods'- and 'werewolf'-themes. That's another black mark against the Grymkin.

>>54622232
The circle doesnt have a reaper thing. Again, the grymkin deserve shit, but dont kick on them for what they dont do.

>>54622460
Actually, the various druids do have a little bit of a reapermen theme going on, what with their cloaks and polearms.

>>54611359
That's some shitty charadesign alright.

>>54622460

They have a rather reaper look going on with the druids/tharn. It might not be deliberate but between the scythe-like polearms, heavy cloaks and all the 'Kill dude, harvest their life' in the devourer side it's a bit of thematic overlap the Grymkin could have easily latched onto to just be Circle stuff.

That and the scarecrows/mannikins/wolds. They'd have been a bit of a new look for a sub-group of Circle but they'd have fit in fine. The Lord of the Feast would have fit in wonderfully with most Grymkin stuff for example.

>>54617048
>Honestly, MOST of them look Aesthetically FINE
Doesn't change the fact that it veers away from the overall aesthetic and feel of WMH. Hence the "They were unleashed from another realm by the old witch as a necessity" excuse used to justify their existence.
>>54617082
Like you couldn't do a google search? He has a deviantart account and his smug face is among the first results. (It's the guy with a failed mohawk)
>>54617411
sums it up pretty well.

>>54619499
Well, there was a lot in the old forums, but the old forum is kill and CID is deletefest.

You can see him being a fuck up and being dodgy in the AMA session he did in Reddit a year back.

Another day, another Warmahordes general derailed by assholes.

If you wanna blame anyone for the game losing players, blame the people who can't talk about it without whining like faggots.

>>54622579
>>54622701

Thats kinda a stretch. Its mystical robes and magic staves.

Everything about oroboros communicates life. Its vibrant and energetic, even if its brutal. Even the guy from the desert with a scythe looks healthy and chill.

>>54623668
What do you think caused all the complaints?

That's right, PP turning the game into shit and talking shit.

You lose players when you make a shit game that players can't trust the developers for, and PP aren't EA or CAPCOM who've had decades of multiple beloved IPs to fall back on or the money to fuck around with.

>>54623738
But what if I think it's not a fucking problem?

I think MKIII is better then MKII
I think Grymkin are fine sans a few real duds.

They added a new limited aesthetic. And I'm GOOD with that. They're mixing it up in a limited amount just like with the Convergence of Cyriss.

Jason soles sucks at mechanics. So he fucking left and hasn't showed up since on CID or on imageboards and the game design has progressed much smoother and better since.

But the bitterness is like PP hurt them personally or something.

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>>54622232
>another black mark against the Grymkin
>black mark
>black
just what we always wanted

>>54623920
Then you are an oddity.

And frankly, PP/Soles did hurt people directly. Hurling insult at the Skorne playerbase as they "don't like options" while freely admitting that they didn't know what they were doing for them.

Convergence not only existed in the fluff before, but they were actually an organization, not a group of hodge podge monsters who have no relations to each other.

>>54623980
>Goth cred sufficient did we lack / till gave did you to us this mark of black

>>54623920
>I think MKIII is better then MKII
>I think Grymkin are fine sans a few real duds.
Okay, good for you, but a significant part of the playerbase loathes both.

>They're mixing it up in a limited amount...
Yes, why focus on the already established factions that still need work? It's much more sensible to release a faction nobody wanted.

>>54624111
Or actually release a faction that fans care about like Infernals or Zu

>>54624024
>>54624111

>Then you are an oddity.
Except when I'm not. How do you get to determine what the fanbase likes or not?

I mean how else do new things advance if not by doing something new? Everblight made his army by breaking the draconic established fluff, and combining a bunch of rag tag groups together. Elves broke tradition with their Myrmodons. Convergence was never an organized army (Just a bunch of cults).

You can say it is bad, and I can see good arguments for it, but you treat any of your own opinions as a definitive.

>Yes, why focus on the already established factions that still need work?
Because that's now how release schedules work?

Im not saying the Grymkin release was in any manner timely, and they where in the works for pretty much years before the release of MKIII. You either pretty much have to shelve years of work, and start addressing problems that the community is divided about.

Il say it simply, the biggest problems of MKIII come from a lack of a larger scale player betatest.

>>54624245
>I mean how else do new things advance if not by doing something new?
New =/= good. I have never killed someone, but I get the distinct impression that this would not be a healthy hobby for me to start.

>Il say it simply, the biggest problems of MKIII come from a lack of a larger scale player betatest.
And stirring the pot for no reason. Pre-CID Madrak 1 being the greatest of example of "why the fuck"

>>54624299
>New =/= good.
And thats FINE. That's fine to say you think its bad.

It more bothers me when it starts to accrue more hate than it deserves. Malifaux comparisons are mostly well deserved.

Like people saying "Being reapers is the circles thing!" despite them visually not being Reapers at all. Or how a priest looks like a warhammer priest so ripoff (No one priest is allowed to look like another priest, thats the law).

>>54624299
>And stirring the pot for no reason.
Yes. But Im glad to see things moving in a better direction.

Im not saying there are not problems, but few people here even seem to read the mechanics in depth, and just come to bitch and then bounce.

The problem I see is that all the models in the grymkin faction feel like they don't belong together.

Even in the origional dnd setting these were all individual monsters.

It just doesn't feel like the warlocks are something that ties them together.

Hell these would have been great as some form of minions subfaction.

Imagine that you could have one monster helping someone in exchange for some horrible price asked of the actual caster.

>>54624387
>>54624387
It's because context is important.

Grymkin would've been met with meh at most in mkii because the game was mostly well received and this was before PP made grandiose promises and insulted their customer base.

Now it's mkiii where like an overfunded kickstarter, the promises weren't met, developers have revealed themselves to be asshats, there's crippling issues and uneven game state and then in a time of crisis, they revealed a mediocre product that obviously took time away from normal development of existing issues.

Honestly, comparing it to Mighty No 9 is disturbingly apt.

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SHUT UP

WHAT ARE YOU DUMB IDIOTS PAINTING RIGHT NOW???1121/!?!??

>>54624480
That's why I would've loved Infernals as a faction.

Arcana would've been great "bad things happen to you when you do things you aren't supposed to"

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>>54624480
>>54624514

All true. Legitimate points. I dunno just whinyness really gets to me.

>>54624517
Paintin MOW. In preparation, but also in general. I love these guys.

>>54624517
Priming various Fane Knights again, goddamn humid weather

>>54624517
I've test-painted 6 different schemes on CoC models. Still haven't found one I liked.

>>54626453

I have a few Cyriss models to paint up.
what colours have you tried so far?

>>54626616
Not that Annon but I recommend less shiny bits. The clockwork aspect can get swallowed up by the magic glowing paint scheme.

>>54624530
>Infernals as a faction
I wonder how many times PP will have to say this isn't happening before people stop asking for it?

>>54626616
Tired a bronze statue look (too bright), borg color scheme (meh), ceramic white (poor technique ruined it for me), book-standard (too...standard), shades of grey (most likely), and I was recently attempting a deep red, which is passable but not great.

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>ITT a bunch of try hards bitching about new stuff

Why are any of you even here? Go play the game or find something else to do

>>54626667
Dunno, how often did players have to ask before PP decided to implement the Grymkin?

>>54626715

I recall some people asking for Monsternomicon stuff, but I didn't think you could core a faction on it.

>>54626678
Have you tried molten hot?

Dull Iron on the outside, hot FIRE on the inside?

>>54626711
>Don't complain! Everything is fine! Why are you complaining online about the game? Didn't I say everything is fine?

>>54626715
They didn't have to

>>54626667
We have no idea what PPs longterm plans are.

The idea for colossal's started around the release of MKII. And it took like 3 years for them to be finalized.

>>54626993
>I'd rather stew in unnecessary negativity than do anything positive with my spare time

>>54624517
Khador stuff. Bombardiers, Behemoth, Ruin, Grolar, and a Decimator.

That damn Decimator has me praying for the inevitable switch to a polystyrene kit like they're doing with the Slayer, but in terms of remaking warjacks as HIPS multi-kits Convergence needs to happen sooner rather than later.

>>54612375
Got his card just before L&L. Dude is a monster

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>>54627040

>>54616606
They're awesome and a ton of fun to play. The models are pretty good but i haven't had a chance to actually paint anything yet. The ones I've seen paint up nicely though.

Game play wise you're going to need a plan for them. If you go in blind or unprepared you're going to have a bad time

>>54626978
Hrm. Interesting idea. I might have to try that.

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>>54624619
> Sideways picture.

Literally kill yourself.

You are ten times worse than Hitler.

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>>54624517
Been working on Goreshade4. Finished him but only have in-progress pics.

>>54627040
Dude, I'm playing other shit. I'm having fun not playing Warmachine.

>>54626779
well, a fey army itself isn't a bad idea, but why the fuck would decapitated horse cav be a thing and why would seperate pigmen be a thing when an entire faction of pigmen exist?

So fucking dumb.

>>54626711
I'm here to keep updated on the game and to see when it will die. I've generally been smart in game selection for getting what I want out of it and I'm eager to see the aftermath of my failures.

>>54617499
Just not spend more than one focus?

>>54627427
Then why are you even here

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Is this is a list that could work under Helynna, or is colossal + lightspam strictly Vyros territory?

Retribution of Scyrah
Theme: Forges of War
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Magister Helynna - WJ: +30
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 0
- Hyperion - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 30)
- Manticore - PC: 14
- Gorgon - PC: 9
- Griffon - PC: 8
- Griffon - PC: 8
- Griffon - PC: 8
- Chimera - PC: 8

Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 0
House Shyeel Artificer - PC: 0
House Shyeel Battle Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10

I've got two Hydras, a Phoenix, and a bunch of Vyreskub available as well. But according to le interwebs Hydras are inferior to a trio of Manticores, which I don't own.

>>54627496
To watch the game die or get an announcement for a new edition.

>>54627481
>see when it will die
You're going to be waiting for a while

>>54627481
>and to see when it will die

Yeah, just like the bitter old ex-GW players who insisted over and over that 40k was going to die within six months, only this time for sure, honest.

>>54627541
6 years.

I've played this game over 2 editions. Watching it die won't be long as that.

Selling off brand new Khador, PoM, and Everblight models on eBay at a huge loss because this game is in the shitter and almost no one wants to play it.

Sold off two new Mad Dogs in box at $17 per. Meh, I'll take it.

>>54627593
Define die, I'm going to set a reminder and then come back and laugh at you

>>54627577
well, 40k would've never died in 6 months, that's just impossible. Most companies, even poorly managed ones at least last for a year before dying.

The sunken cost fallacy is too strong in /tg/ crowd for anything to die that quickly.

WMH has a chance to bounce back when GW inevitably fucks up again horribly and other games aren't getting new editions. Basically they got to create mkii magic again. Good fucking luck.

>>54627656
Your tragic tale of selling your models at a loss just like every other motherfucker who ends up settling for 50% MSRP at best because models do not hold any inherent value brings me to tears, anon
I am truley sorry for your lots ;_;

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>>54627689
probably at a point where they completely overhaul lock and load or scrap it completely. That will be the definitive sign.

For definitive death, I would say... when Miniature Market puts an up to date WMH box (so no old metal/unit blister) goes on clearance.

>>54627755
well, shitty model sculpts tend to have that effect.

People seems to hate TLOS games until you play one with predetermined LOS and area depending on base size.

You can literally play this game with nothing more than bases with the names of models on them.

>>54627713
PP only thrived when the sleeping giant GW was asleep.

Kirby has left the board. I wouldn't count on them screwing up at all.

Now that GW is back, people are fleeing WMH and other games like rats on a sinking ship.

>>54627838
And how long will this take to happen?

>>54627900
Your adorable

>>54627900
Not to mention that other companies exist on the internet and have proven to be reliable/good for gaming. Kickstarters, despite their unevenness, doesn't help matters at all.

PP can't be the big fish in a small pond, swimming around the whale carcass of GW anymore.

You know the worst part of this game?

The fucking over-over-over-overdesign of models.

Like yes, CAD is a thing but jesus christ you don't have to put details on top of details.

>>54627912
Depends.

If they make another edition in 6 years, then the game won't die and has chance of comeback. New player bucks and people rebuying every rule will keep them a float.

If they continue the course, I suspect LnL collapse/restructuring in 4~ 5 years maybe?
MM clearance bin around 6 ~ 7 years mark?

This is if they continue their current course with no management/production/staff/etc changes. They must announce a new edition in 5-6 year mark though.

Who knows, let's hope that you will be laughing at me soon enough for everyone's sake.

>>54628090
>If they make another edition in 6 years
Mk1 lasted ~7 years, mk2 around 6. A new edition in 6 years isn't out off the question

>>54626711

I still like to keep up with the game and see new models. And honestly, some of it is that I enjoy a good shitshow, which these threads almost always turn into.

>>54627987
Welcome to minatures games in 2017

>>54627987
It works better on some than on others. Skorne for example have some design motifs that are busy but you're encouraged to tie the whole thing together with color, etc.

The warjacks themselves are pretty plain, to the point where you actually have too much open space to deal with sometimes.

I think Orobros are the worst offenders of the detail overload, with armor plates in edgy designs in seemingly random places.

>>54627511
I just realized Rhythm doesn't work on a colossal, so you guys can go ahead and keep shitposting while I rewrite this list

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>>54627929
>your

>>54628738
>I think Orobros are the worst offenders of the detail overload, with armor plates in edgy designs in seemingly random places.


Isn't that the point? Chaos and just a bunch of stupid unmilitarized barbarians?

>>54627873
And? That's not a positive or negative thing to say

>>54627873
TLOS is cancer.

>>54630061
>>54630138
Lay off guys, Anon was clearly too busy shitposting to actually make a point.

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>>54629947
I imagine the whole Barbarian shtick is more of a Skorne thing. Circle felt more druidic, like Mother Nature was doing the ass-kicking with some friends.

>>54630168
what? Skorne is the most developed socially in the entire Hordes side. They are the least barbaric

>>54630168
What
>>54630198

Said. Skorne are a freaking desert empire based off elements like sparta. Just because they lack the tech doesn't make them barbaric. The nihilators are the most barbaric element, but that's because they're insane with pain.

The idea is that the Druids who are the ones in charge and are smart and organized, use the crazed devourer worshipping barbarians.

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>>54629947
But those metal pieces are intricate and clean, never mind how they somehow manage to flutter in the wind despite being, you know, METAL plates.

>>54629947
>>54630359
I fucking hate these metal plates. I wanted to buy two Argus to make some armorless, cooler looking doggos for my Butcher3, but they have way too many circle plates on them. It would be easier to model the entire dog out of green stuff.

>>54630359
Style I suppose. Supposed to look organic. Like autumn leaves.

>>54621865
Thanks anon

I read a fiction once where some trollkin were colonizing a forest and they had some humans they'd liberated from like a Sul-Menite slave mine living in the kriel. One was acting as a scout.

Any chance we would ever get trollbloods models that were adopted into trollkin communities from non-troll communities?

>>54632385
Well, probably not. They're not the super special all inclusive snowflake that is cygnar after all.

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>>54611359

OP here. There's been a lot of complaining in this thread. Why don't we talk about things that we actually LIKE?

Question for you guys with multiple faction armies: Which is your favorite army to play, and why?

I've got Menoth, Convergence, and Grymkin and I got them in that order.

I like playing Menoth the most. Of the 3, they're the cleanest and most simple. I can't really think of any other way to describe it without it being able to be attributed to literally every other faction, but it's like... Here're these guys, here's what they do, here's what they're good at, now put em to work. Know what I mean?

Favorite fluff is Convergence. I've always liked the high tech in low tech setting thing, and I'm a big sucker for the vague but epic sounding mythology. "We work toward and await the perfect alignment so the sacred numbers may come to light and our god will awaken" kind of thing.

Grymkin, I'll catch shit for this, but I like the way they look. Not a fan of the gremlins, dread rots, or piggybacks but I really like the bizarre theme the rest of them have going on. They certainly don't look as nice as a standard themed and colored army when put on the table, but individually they're interesting models.

>>54632461
Call me a faggot. but I actually like the Grymkin backstory. Call it out of place, but I certainly enjoyed it.

And I enjoy the warcasters as well.

>>54632508

Oh I didn't mean to imply I dislike their story. I definitely get where the other guys are coming from saying it takes quite a bit of twisting to get them to really mesh with the Warmahordes setting, but their story is good.
I especially enjoyed the story for Lord Longfellow in the faction book. That was a good read. I hope the first Grymkin novel that gets published follows him.

>>54611359
guys.... I HATE the look of this faction.

are they trying to pull in malifaux players?

seriously.... disgusting.

>>54633083

We've already had enough complaining ITT. If you want to complain, please start your own thread.

I don't even understand what in Malifaux they're supposed to be so close to? The Mexican cowboys, the robot spiders the kung fu monks?

Just because they are creepy and silly doesn't make them a Malifaux rip off.

>>54633207

Anon, stop. We don't need more bitching, and questions like that are gonna draw bitchers.

>>54617048
>Honestly, MOST of them look Aesthetically FINE

McFarlane villains *Everywhere*!

The Hollowmen and the Murder Crows look great. Too bad the rest of the faction doesn't really go with them.

>>54633207
It's because you have the Child being a port of the Dreamer from Malifaux, and the Grymkin Dreamer is pretty similar to Pandora. Design-wise they look somewhat similar to Neverborn in general as well

>>54634032
Both are "dark fae" in origin, so sure.

The use of pigs for one unit is also a bit blatant.

Question about Steamroller zones:

Do units/models have to be completely within the zone to control?

>>54634555

I'm pretty sure as long as at least part of their base is in and no part of an enemy's is, you have control.
I could be wrong, but I think that's how it works.

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>>54634032
>Child being a port of the Dreamer from Malifaux
Can people really stop it with that?

Malifaux does not have the copyright of "Child protected by giant monster that's their imaginary friend".

Did malifaux then rip off Teen titans or other such shit? Seriously people.

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>>54629894

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>>54632461
>Why don't we talk about things that we actually LIKE?

>>54634788

YEAH HI THAT ARGUMENT HAS BEEN DONE FOR OVER 5 HOURS NOW WOULD YOU KINDLY SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP SHITPOSTING. THANK YOU.

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>>54632461
>What do I like

Warmahordes gives off the feeling of being simple for the size that it is. Not 'simple in comparison to other war-games,' just 'simple'.

Also, having the "big baddie brawls" fantasy alongside a standard army and have then be (to some degree) comparable in power to each other is nice.

> What armies

Main army is PoM and we doube the Wurm!

I like having a clericy fire-and-brimstone army, it hits a vibe with me. I also like the idea of having an army specializing in zone denial, though I still fail to get the hang of it (started when MkIII hit, been on and off due to work.)

I also have the MkIII Trollblood battlegroup, and as soon as I can find some Stonebearers that don't cost over $50, I can expand on those too.

>>54634889
>Warmahordes gives off the feeling of being simple for the size that it is. Not 'simple in comparison to other war-games,' just 'simple'.
Except, of course, it isn't "simple". It is relatively well organized, which gives the impression of simplicity, but watching Theorymachine autists dive down the rabbit hole for every release reveals the filthy lie.

>>54632461
I just play Ret. I've always been a sucker for "magitek" style, so their design really stood out compared to my older impressions of the clunky steampunk aesthetic of the other Warmachine factions. Elves are also nice hipster bait, though their popularity spiked big time with Mk3.

I may give Menoth or Khador a try one of these days, though. I enjoy LG holy warriors (which leaves me looking at Kreoss and Durst because the rest of Menoth is a gaggle of assholes) and cold weather RUSSIA aesthetics, but their only 'jack designs I really like are the clamjacks. For now, the arctic theme of the new refugee Nyss have my urge for variety sated.

I don't really like Grymkin because their fluff doesn't feel very well written or applicable to the setting (forced rhymes, virtue warning tales/things that go bump in the night made real somehow being relevant in a world war), but I try not to bitch about it.

>>54634943
True, there's many add-on rules in the game each model/unit adds on. What I mean is that at the base level of the game, if you were picking it up for the very first time, it is easy to understand. Set up for turn, move, attack, pass. Roll 2d6 and add *AT to hit (match or exceed enemy DEF,) 2d6 again but add POW instead (P+S if Melee) to deal damage (Damage roll - enemy ARM = damage dealt.)

>tfw can't find people to play online

>>54634555
Every model that wants to score/contest needs to be partially within. In case of a unit, every model in a unit must be completely within a circular zone to score it.

>>54634889

I liked the idea of playing denial, that's why I played Menites (that and their sweet masks).

Then MK III hit, and it was clear the design team didn't want me to have fun.

>>54632461
>OP here. There's been a lot of complaining in this thread. Why don't we talk about things that we actually LIKE?
I like that the game will be forced to have a 4th edition at the current rate

>>54636036
Menoth still has a hundred and one ways to say "fuck this mechanic in particular", stop huffing your censers bro

>>54636302
>I like that the game will be forced to have a 4th edition at the current rate

Meanwhile I'm satisfied that I've got enough time, data, and disinterest to say that Mk3 is better then Mk2, and Mk3 Skorne is better than Mk2 Skorne. This place is like a turd hotbox about some things.

>>54640751
I agree that the Mk3 ruleset is definitely better than Mk2.

I just wish they'd gone in the other direction with regard to themes. List building isn't nearly as interesting as it was (either in Mk2 or near the start of Mk3).

>>54634943
You say this like it's a bad thing. The fact that the game is easy to learn but has really complex interactions once you start really getting into it is awesome

>>54641264
Try less themes. I get why themes happen. Its to encourage people not to always invest in the factions super solos (Not just mercs).
Especially after character restrictions where lessened.

Try less themes, their also suprisingly good.

Played against grymkin the other day and left the table feeling shat on. The power creeping pay to win vibe that I go was real.

Pigs with Arms 17 + impervious flesh with tough and a ten inch threat range. That's fun.
14 point heavies that are basically shaved down bronzebacks that can act as arc nodes. Super cool.
Super cheap shield guards.
Kriel stone battle engine.
All topped off with a seven rage point caster with three mini feats and a decent spell list.

Just a shitty unfun fight in general. That really sums up most of my battles since Mark three, even the ones I win feel like phyrric victories.

>>54644136
What faction were you playing as?

>>54644136
Grymkin are a gotcha faction, once you figure out how their shit functions and how to deal with it, they'll be a lot easier to play against.

>>54644136
What was your list and the scenario? What arcana did your opponent choose? It sounds like you ran into the Heretic unprepared

>>54644175
Cygnar. Sloan with Reinhold . Two hunters and triumph, unit of gunmages.

>>54644268
>triumph
>gunmages
Well there's your problem

>>54644333
Triumph's new rules haven't dropped yet, have they?

>>54644268
Sorry, it just sounds like a shitty match up against something new, to be honest.

The pigs are tough but only really threatening on a charge (Pow 13 Melee are pretty piddly overall for a heavy infantry unit), they don't really have higher arm then Shocktroopers and also have less HP. They just counter spiking tactics.
It's kinda stupid to say that Cage ragers are "Bronzebacks".

What kind of fights are you fighting overall? Whats so pyrrhic about your victories and whats so unfun? That Gun Mages aren;t Defense 15 anymore or something?

>>54644219
I knew what they do. I just don't see what I could do about it with my army without buying and building into it. I tossed as much damage as I could downfield on my feat turn just to have him shieldblock one of the last shots and pop sacrifice clearing all the damage on his units. He then cleared the distance and fury stomped everything and arced shit at my caster to death. Shit sucked

>>54644405
Nope

>>54644483
You brought low pow guns to an armor fight. Your list sucked anon

>>54644333
Youre right. I should have bought the newest and best units possible so that i too can win with my wallet.

>>54644483
Just what was your list, period? Like Truimph, Two Hunters, and a unit of gun mages is 25 points.

While what you described on the grymkin side is like 70.

>>54644557
Not really. All the stuff you need for a good Sloan list is from previous editions.

Here's an example

Kara Sloan [Bunker]
Kara Sloan
Stormwall
Hunter
Hunter
Hunter
Hunter
Reinholdt
Journeyman Warcaster
Sentinel
Captain Arlan Strangeways

Get over your self

>>54644421
Man the pigs hit as hard as my "hard hitting, fast glass cannon medium infantry? Fuck. Do they have 8 boxes or 5? My poor tharn ravagers

>>54644627
They can hit at p+s 20 with the Heretic. They're arm 13 with 5 boxes but can get up to arm 20

>>54644627
They have 5. Im not saying that all heavy infantry is as good as the other (Tharns I think are next to be CID-ed for circle).

Also the pigs have brutal charge. So it is kinda insult to injury. They are more comparable to MOW shocktroopers then to Tharn Ravagers.

Im just outright saying that the ravagers deserve a buff.

>>54627299

No he's not.

>>54644702
>Im just outright saying that the ravagers deserve a buff.
You'll be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't think this

>>54644730
I just mean that as tough and annoying the Pigs are, they aren't really overpowered.

Just very frustrating, in combining one of the most annoying mechanics (Impervious flesh) with a defensive unit.

>>54644836
Boosted damage rolls are the way to go. Shot them when the turn sheet they charge or o run into position and they'll die. If you plan to charge them watch out for Pandemonium.

The downside here is the Grymkin player wants you to kill their dudes

>>54644483
If you know what they do, why did you let him pop sacrifice to any great effect?

With WmH, the high points of playing the game are exceptionally high, and the low points are exceptionally low.

With the terrible MK3 launch marketing, the amount they showed in a bad light really hurt some communities. There L&L keynote this year went a long way towards showing their design in a better light.

I like the direction they are taking the game now that I understand it. They are redesigning to appeal to a broader audience that has more material for casual players to chew into and hobby around while simultaneously constructing rules that are extremely balanced and bespoke based on model background. Work new models, they have to balance with the existing catalog. With old models, they have to build thematic content equivalent to that of their limited release factions. It's an extremely complex job that will have bumps in the road.

>>54645379
I pretty much agree with this completely. It's a very tough job, but I like what they are trying to do.

>>54644550

But the guns are AP. Shouldn't they be good at hurting armor?

>>54645665
Against flat arm sure but not against models with buffs AP runs into problems.

As an example piggybacks are base arm 13, so 7 against AP, but they're getting plus 6 arm from shield wall and the Death Knell so they'll really be arm 13. So with impervious flesh your hunters are doing a grand total of fuck and all against them

>>54645665

AP is weak to all of the armor buffs piggy backs bring. I think that is by design; having AP instead of high power makes it a bad idea to spam hunters. That was the case versus medium based infantry until the start of Mark 3, and it's true now that medium based infantry are coming back into the game. The year where AP was equivalent to high power was the exception rather than the rule.

>>54645795
But that's true of all shield walls. Man-O Wars in that instance would be Arm 17->9+4+2 (if Iron Fleshed) for a armor of 15 Vs Pow 6.

>>54645857
I don't understand what you're arguing here. AP is pretty bad into MoW too. It's better than it is into piggybacks but its not ideal

>>54645892
Oh. Most people when they argue something isn't good into something else usually mean: "NERF IT I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH IT AT AAAAAAAAAL"

>>54646016
Yeah I don't look at the game that way. There are different tools and tactics for different jobs and people need to figure out what that is. Grymkin have answers but like ghost fleet people are going to need to change up their game plan or at least their strategy

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Does Khador have a Cryx drop or do they just have to accept that this matchup is awful? (like Circle has to accept the Khador matchup)

>>54644557

The shooting meta in WmH does make you buy different stuff as the meta changes. It's a game based around 2 list pairs to play a balanced game as well. Sloan's strategy is pretty brittle to opposing tech. Something like storm division should be good for a long time now that the nerf to lances had been executed if you want to invest in a strategy more resilient to game changes.

>>54646305
Sorshca1 maximum rockets is really good versus most Cryx. You have to bring a spriggan on her or Malakov to handle stealth in winter guard theme.

>>54646305
Sorcha2 for ghost fleet

>>54646305
I wonder what drove Khador to design the Marauder. Was there really nothing better they could think of for armor cracking? How were they having trouble armor cracking in the first place?

>>54648245
Sometimes you just need smash a motherfucker with two jackhammers

>>54648245
>>54648263
Also, considering how bad Khador jacks are at shooting things

>>54648245
>I wonder what drove Khador to design the Marauder.
It's literally in the fluff.

>>54648245
"I fucking hate walls." - Khadoran Engineer

>>54644550
Do we know when the Trencher CID stuff is supposed to show up in Warroom?

>>54648245
The average Khador jack is designed to wreck other jacks. The Marauder is designed to wreck buildings.

>>54648749
when NQ prime drops at the end of next month

>>54641264
>I just wish they'd gone in the other direction with regard to themes

FUCKING THIS.
I was so disappointed when I opened my faction book after picking the game back up after a long hiatus and saw that there were only 2 available themes. I never even played half the lists I created, it was just fun building new ones around different casters with different themes.

>>54649713
You know there will be more right?

>>54648575
Pretty much:

>"Designed to pulverize both buildings and armored warjacks with equal ease, the Marauder is armed with a pair of pneumatically driven battering rams. Though originally developed to aid in siege warfare, these crushing rams are even more useful for obliterating or displacing enemy warjacks, and they provide unsurpassed tactical control to their battlegroup commanders. The Marauder can hurl ten tons of enemy warjack to the side with no more difficulty than a rampaging bear knocking aside a man.
An industrial mechanik named Targh Fedro was inspired to try this design after observing stonemasons in a quarry. After replacing an old laborjack’s broken arms with battering rams, he tested it against the quarry walls and nearly brought down the entire face with a single blow. Excited at the military potential, he took the design to the Mechaniks Assembly to build a prototype using the ubiquitous Juggernaut chassis. Those who witnessed trials against similarly heavy Khadoran ’jacks were astonished at the power wielded by the piston-driven rams.
Though any warjack can knock away an adversary if it has sufficient distance for a full charge, the Marauder can achieve similar results standing still. With the devastating power of its twin rams, a Marauder can send lesser machines flying through stone walls to become mere wrecks of torn metal and shattered pistons."

>>54644483
Honestly you knew that arcana was there. When I see my opponent bring Grymkin, I already assume they're bringing that. My meta had three people jump to that ship and I've been talking them its not as good as it sounds. All you have to do is focus Fire at a model at a time instead of spreading the damage. They're models aren't all that beefy even with impervious flesh

>>54641264
>I agree that the Mk3 ruleset is definitely better than Mk2.
Except where it isn't.
As a WMH General here a year ago put it, "removing words at random does not make a ruleset simpler"

>>54648435
>in the fluff.
You mean all those non-rule words that are now completely optional to acquire? If PP were passable novelists I might by their relentless stream of fiction and the Command books, but they're down at the Robert Vardeman and "Ass Goblins of Auschwitz" end of the spectrum.

>>54652179
I mean its in their fucking descriptive blurb!

>Why did Khador Make the Maurader
>Well here it is
>Im not gonna read that shit!

Here is that blurb:
>An industrial mechanik named Targh Fedro was inspired to try this design after observing stonemasons in a quarry. After replacing an old laborjack’s broken arms with battering rams, he tested it against the quarry walls and nearly brought down the entire face with a single blow. Excited at the military potential, he took the design to the Mechaniks Assembly to build a prototype using the ubiquitous Juggernaut chassis. Those who witnessed trials against similarly heavy Khadoran ’jacks were astonished at the power wielded by the piston-driven rams.

That's it.

>>54611359
So, while we're on the topic of the lore, I want to ask a Grymkin related question, since that seems to be the overall theme of the focus of the thread:

What the exactly are the Grymkin even doing? I mean, seriously. The reasons they gave for the Grymkin being an army seem kind of weak.

So, we have the defiers right? These guys and gals who went against Menoth, and discovered their own power within through hell, and basically created an entire realm made out of hell. That's fine.

But with them on Caen, what are they even doing? I mean, we know that they hate Menoth, and everything that he stands for. But yet, we have this weird theme where they're going to "reap the wicked" as well, while killing anyone who gets in their way. The latter is the reason the Old Witch decided to release them, since that means that the Infernals would have less of a grip on the world. But none of the defiers really seem to care for that goal; they would rather just go pursue their own goals, rather doing any sort actual reaping with their Grymkin.

So that makes me wonder what the hell was the point in releasing them in the first place? Especially since Menoth being weakened would only allow more wicked people to be corrupted. Also, the Grymkin seem more interested in just randomly murdering people than actually doing what they need to. If these guy's are so keen on punishing people, why do they just murder whole towns for shits and giggles?

Finally, I find it weird how in the book, it makes the Grymkin out to be a really numerous and dangerous threat, while also still maintaining them to be Myths and legends. The Command book makes them all sound like legends, or that most people don't believe in them. But now that these guys are an actual army, how the fuck do you explain that away?

Basically, why are the Defiers such tremendous assholes?

>>54649713

Themes are where the poison started. Balance is a lot about "who currently has a broken theme list."

Fuck this game. I'm playing Infinity now.

>>54652576
Well they were only released recently, due to the Old Witch.
She let them out to do...
Old Witch things. It's not clear.

>>54652576

Because Soles wanted to create a personal horror setting when the wargame is about nations (and tribes) at war with one another. So they basically don't fit.

It also ties into the idea that Menites are supposed to lose at everything forever because grrr rage at organized religion. So it's really just shit.

I have a question about the Pandemonium arcana rule.

It says that when a model gives an order, the model's unit is not affected by the order.
Does the unit then lose its whole activation, or can it do everything (move/run, attack) normally? Can this cancel out mini feats, such as the Flameguard Cleansers UA feat that gives them assault for one turn?

>>54652803
>I have a question about the Pandemonium arcana rule.
Treat it like the unit is under the effect of that Spell that prevents orders. You still get to move and attack, but no orders. It does not cancel out mini feats.

>>54652576
>But none of the defiers really seem to care for that goal; they would rather just go pursue their own goals, rather doing any sort actual reaping with their Grymkin.
Because their Crazy like Fey. The Grymkin are a combination of a classical D&D Devil with the Fey. Each Grymkin is a capricious representation of Punishment.
Despite carving out a niche in hell, they still spent thousands of years as immortals in hell. On top of that, they were reshaped by the myths and memories about them (Which is why they are anachronistic despite coming from a much more barbaric time), as a result they only have a very loose and very longterm view of sins and punishment.
Like the child was described as murdering parents as punishment for being too controlling. They all do kill sinners, and add them to their horde, they just kill allot of people along the way as well.
>Especially since Menoth being weakened would only allow more wicked people to be corrupted.
Can't be corrupted of their dead. The old witch takes a super long view. If she has to kill 70% of the world's population so that the rest repopulated untainted that's victory in her mind. Reminder that they hate sinners in general. And menoth is a controlling, cruel, and tyrannical dictatorship theurgy. Thats plenty of sin to kill regardless.

Continued

>>54652803
Read the text of the card. They simply don't get the order

>>54652954
>Finally, I find it weird how in the book, it makes the Grymkin out to be a really numerous and dangerous threat, while also still maintaining them to be Myths and legends. The Command book makes them all sound like legends, or that most people don't believe in them. But now that these guys are an actual army, how the fuck do you explain that away?
They could only be released in trickles before the Old witch made the machine that acts as an easy portal to all the hordes they build up in the centuries.

>Basically, why are the Defiers such tremendous assholes?
Some where assholes even before this began. They kinda have a super long view of history. If they break a ton of eggs to make an even bigger omlete in the future that's keen for them.

>>54652663
And nothing of value was lost

>>54652179
You're acting as is if this hasn't always been the case

>>54652963

The whole reason I stopped playing 40k was I hated cyclical imbalance. There's nothing in Warmachine to make me tolerate that.

>>54644557

>Youre right. I should have bought the newest and best units possible so that i too can win with my wallet.

It's called list building you fucking mong. If you want to just slap whatever models down on the table and have a game, then go for it, but don't complain when people bring better designed lists that smash apart whatever you slapped together. You're the one too lazy to do a bit of research and learn that Grymkin is one of the most resilient factions versus gunlines, and when you brought a shitty gunline you're somehow surprised you got wrecked and just blame the game for power creep.

>>54624245
>Elves broke tradition with their Myrmidons
Try again. The Elves created Myrmidons ages ago. Whatever tradition you think they broke is misconceptions based on stereotypical elves from other settings.

>>54653777
No I mean the Mechanical tradition of Warmachine. New rules, new visual style, new faction, new fluff that fits a new puzzle piece into place.

I haven't played since MkII, and even the. I didn't play much because I only had an Abysolonia theme force and a whiney friend that bitched about fury to play with regularly. I've recently tried putting my old metal legion stuff together, and part way through, I decided that it would be far easier and less painful to repeatedly smash my head into a brick wall until I died than continue my attempt at this warped piece of shit.

With that being said, I have always loved the gator models, particularly Barnabas and the Wrastler. Their colossal concept also looks sweet as fuck, which brought me back here. How are Gators at the moment? I'm a bit leery on the game as a whole based on what I've heard, but I'm taking it with salt. I might have a chance to join a group, and its really an excuse to go Wrastle people.

>>54654062
Well the good news is that the Wrastler got a fuck ton stronger with access to rage. Also, Barnabas is getting an epic version as the God of the Blindwater congregation.

I would, of course, like for you to get interested in the game, but I also think I should answer truthfully. So whats got you interested and what are you leery of in the game? Some complaints are valid, other are just bitter people gloating for no reason.

Overall the Gators are slated for a massive new releases, with potentially faction bending power (As in uplift them to a better spot, not overpower everybody else).

>>54654230
>Well the good news is that the Wrastler got a fuck ton stronger with access to rage. Also, Barnabas is getting an epic version as the God of the Blindwater congregation.

Oh sweet. That's awesome

>I would, of course, like for you to get interested in the game, but I also think I should answer truthfully. So whats got you interested and what are you leery of in the game? Some complaints are valid, other are just bitter people gloating for no reason.
I don't know entirely because I don't have much pre existing experience to work with. Mostly, the complaints were about pricing and rules. I admit the former feels true because they seem more expensive than I remember, but I could be wrong here was also something about marketing in general I think.

>Overall the Gators are slated for a massive new releases, with potentially faction bending power (As in uplift them to a better spot, not overpower everybody else).
Oh nice. That's awesome.

>>54654062
>I decided that it would be far easier and less painful to repeatedly smash my head into a brick wall until I died than continue my attempt at this warped piece of shit.
Super glue and styrofoam are your friends.

>>54654378
>I don't know entirely because I don't have much pre existing experience to work with. Mostly, the complaints were about pricing and rules. I admit the former feels true because they seem more expensive than I remember, but I could be wrong here was also something about marketing in general I think.

PP sadly in my opinion has hit what I call "Big enough to require more expenses, not big enough to own the house". They have their weird pricing, where the older stuff is less expensive because they don't do price hikes and so the newer stuff is more expensive to compensate. metals price also isn't raised so the plastics have to compensate. Its pricey but not rediculously so, and on top of that PP is really trying to lower the prices in the long-run (Plastic only, trying to stabilize releases). So I think thats good.

In terms of Rules, I personally think the FOUNDATION is MUCH sturdier. What they're aiming to achieve with it is a much better idea than MKII. They came out with a really rocky release because they didn't beta test with the players. So that caused allot of moaning. However, they have started a thing Called CID where the community beta tests and gives input based on redesigns to get the stuff that's already been released updated with better rules. About 2/3rds of trolls has been redesigned this way and is just awaiting them to be finalized and made official.

Overall PP made some blunders with MKIII but is really trying to right the ship, and has been more answerable to feedback then EVER before.

Also if you just wanna start off slow, in August a skirmish version of the game is being released with a focus on customization and lower point values. Called company of iron.

>>54654577

Well, that eased a bit of my worry. I'll definitely give it a shot if I can. I got the 2 player box as a surprise Christmas gift, but I haven't even put any of it together, yet. I'll probably focus more on the Cryx side. If I find regular players, I'll try it out, and then probably drop the cash on the Gators.

A skirmish style sounds fun. It'll probably at a lot better than Kill Teams in 40k since WMH is already more of a skirmish style of game.

>>54644550
>You lost the game of list chicken, god you suck

>>54645379
>>54645474
I see you figured out how to post here finally, Mr Soles.

>>54654230
Don't forget the five new casters Minions recently got.

>>54654999
No, no, no, Soles will never learn.

If anything this is Schick without rule citation, which he's actually good at PR'ing for.

>>54654577

I disagree. I think the designers are too much up their own asses to truly right the ship; they're refugees from 90's gaming culture and while creative, are extremely selfish and hate their customer base for not adoring them.

>>54655239
>the designers are too much up their own asses to truly right the ship
We have seen the results from two CID cycles so far and they have been amazing. I'm sorry you hate PP personally, but they're doing their job of fixing the game balance really well lately.

Question is there a battlebox list available for Grymkin?

>>54655566
The Journeyman League PDF says the Grymkin Battlegroup consists of the following:


(Child 1) The Child [+29]
- Cage Rager [14]
- Frightmare [9]
- Gorehound [6]

... which is a bit weird, because the lights aren't out yet.

>>54655681
Isn't the Gorehound out? I thought it was in the army box.

>>54656590
Yes

>>54655681
Frightmare is September

>>54655239

>>54655415
For me an iconic moment when some moron on this site started saying:

"THEY SHOULDN'T REDUCE THE COST OF ROK! NOW MULG IS MORE USELESS THEN BEFORE!"

And then what followed was a Dev Talk for Mulg that made him much tougher and finally granted trolls an arcnode.

>>54658790
Yeah the new Mulg is fucking terrifying. As he should be.

Can we make Deathjack good next?

>>54658790
>>54658821
Is new Mulg joining the Typhon and Behemoth "We are better than Colossals"-club?

>>54658863
We Nerf Denny1, and after that we can talk about everything else.

>>54659311
Sorta? Because the Trolls have a really good Gargantuan.

But I think they Deserve it. The most Legendary dire troll of them all deserves to be better then even a Mountain king.

>>54658790
So you are agreeing that Mulg needed a look at since he was objectively garbage and the Rok cost change exacerbated the problem?

Good talk.

The very fact that they had to fix the problem means that there was a problem.

Trolls still have a problem anyway since they still haven't recovered from the complete gutting of their animi which leads to a lot of redundant and irrelevant lights with mediocre stats.

>>54659509
Deneghra is the only competitive warcaster left in Cryx, do we need to nerf her too?

>>54659554
>what is coven

>>54659523
>So you are agreeing that Mulg needed a look at since he was objectively garbage and the Rok cost change exacerbated the problem?

But it would have never happened because the shitty miserable fuckwits would have demanded everything be shit so they have the opportunity to stew in their own misery.

Like a Kid whos ice cream is melted while on the ride home, and when the parent offers to buy a new one, the kid screams and yells and has a tantrum because that ice cream was special, so spends the time sulking in their room.

>>54659554
>Deneghra is the only competitive warcaster left in Cryx
Cryx has forever had a different definition of what competative is. And that is "Unless we are at least 4 steps better then the next faction, its garbage".

Your casters are fine, get over it.

>>54659612
I get you like being overpowered so you can beat Cryx for once, but that doesn't mean that Cryx isn't lacking good casters.

>>54659612
>But it would have never happened because the shitty miserable fuckwits would have demanded everything be shit so they have the opportunity to stew in their own misery.
>Like a Kid whos ice cream is melted while on the ride home, and when the parent offers to buy a new one, the kid screams and yells and has a tantrum because that ice cream was special, so spends the time sulking in their room.

No, that's because of the expectation PP has put into them. Why would anyone expect Mulg to be fixed? PP has let awful shit stew for decades. Hell, there's still awful shit that haven't had ANY revisions still in the game. It's not people wanting their shit to be shit, people don't want change that creates more/worse problems.
Are you saying that I still shouldn't complain about the impaler now that cheaper Ice troll exist for crit fishing light shooting beast?

If using your child example, why would the kid expect their parents to get him a new icecream when they've never done so in the past? Why would their words mean anything when they've backed out on every promise to you for a year?

>>54659612
>Cryx has forever had a different definition of what competative is. And that is "Unless we are at least 4 steps better then the next faction, its garbage".
Cryx HAS always had a lot of whiners, probably more so in Mk2 even than now. But to be fair to the caster thing, the whole faction is designed around the "crappy troops and jacks buffed by OP casters" philosophy, similar to Cygnar. It's a subset of the old 'never judge a model out of faction' maxim. Context is important, and that applies to casters just like it does anything else.

>>54659554
Yeah no.

>>54659658
>Cryx
>lacking in good casters
Even fucking Sturgis2 is playable. And he's easily your worst caster.

>>54659604
>what is skarre1

>>54659727
>the whole faction is designed around the "crappy troops and jacks buffed by OP casters"
Which crappy troops are those? Black Ogrun? Your troops are fine. No need to be a snowflake and demand OP cassters on top of it.

>>54659718
>No, that's because of the expectation PP has put into them.

Which is why i like MKIII. I quit MKII because that was the expectation. A pathetic tantrum is a pathetic tantrum regardless of context. People seem personally offended by PP even when they know their reasoning.

People like complaining them into no win scenarios and then complain again when they try to get out of them. Its not "I think the impaler needs a re-do as the Ice troll is way better"

Its "FUCK PP THEY NEVER DID ANY NICE THINGS FOR ANYBODY THEY JUST WANT YOU TO PURCHASE THE NEW STUFF! THEY INVALIDATED MY CARDS FUCK THEM FOR THAT! BUT ALSO FUCK THEM FOR BAD UNITS!"

>>54659727
But they don't have crappy troops. Their troops are actually pretty good. They are just not always the BEST troops every single time when compared to every other faction every single time.

>>54659910
First of all, stop embarrassing yourself with the strawmanning.

Also there entire all caps statement have nothing contradictory.
They do make new stuff better and better without addressing the old stuff in a rate comparable. They did invalidate cards by cutting support on them which they announced. They do have bad units which haven't been touched over a decade.

PP has done a really bad job with this game.

What are the average damage numbers a Bronzeback dishes out? Do you generally only count the free charge and enrage or is there another common buff/debuff to consider?

>>54660218
Um...Whats the context? The average damage against which target? You the batter or the pitcher?

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>>54660236
Just general theorymachine. Can they smash an Arcane Shield Stormwall, Clamjacks under Harkevich Feat or Imperatus through Phoenix Protocol?

What's the hard cap for work a Bronzeback? And which Warlocks increase these variables?

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>>54660216
>PP has done a really bad job with this game.
Then why are you here?

>>54660305
>clamjack
Just fucking throw or slam it. If you're bringing a Bronzeback, you're bringing a Glad, so slammajam that sumbitch out of the zone and either follow up and throw it, or just mulch whatever else is around.

Bronzebacks can do a ton of work, but I'd soften up any hard target before you throw your biggest beast at it, otherwise you'll roll shit and get fucked next turn.

>>54660364
because I'm on /tg/ and I like to keep tabs on things that I know/knew/had interest/experience/bias/love/hate/connection/awareness/is close to/met/killed/ate/burned/chilled/saved/abandoned before.

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>>54660364
>you're only allowed to talk about a game if you 100% agree with every decision and rules choice made by the game company

Shills, everyone.

>>54660216
>First of all, stop embarrassing yourself with the strawmanning.
>Also there entire all caps statement have nothing contradictory.

So my strawman is correct because your a moron. You want stuff fixed, but hate invalidated cards, you think PP only wants you to buy the new stuff but puts effort into making the old stuff better.

They made free cards that you can print on whatever kind of expensive paper you like (Way better then paying them cash for a new card).

You are the kinds whiny moron that does the ice cream tantrum. Conglaturations.

>>54660503
When they announced the update they said that there would be a printing service and ways to purchase updated decks. That has not come to fruition. The old stuff is still untouched in droves. Night troll, Swamp troll, Slag troll being the obvious contenders. Pygs are still statted as crap.

They are barely fixing the problems that they themselves have caused. Earthborn, Madrak 1, Earthborn, Grim 1 should've never been something up to fix in the first place. They fucked it up when they made the transition to mkiii and decided to make changes to these models with obvious lack of playtesting.

Pardon me for not being grateful about the house repair a person did after they rammed their car through the front.

Warroom is still a garbage crap that you still have to pay for and is also inaccurate at every update.

I think when a child is given a pile of shit instead of an icecream, I think the kid deserves to complain. Nor does the replacement of said shit pile with actual icecream invalidate the previous complaint that the vendor supplied shit.

>>54660432
Yeah, nobody said that

>>54660586
What do you want exactly? For them to update the whole game all at once? Again?

>>54660631
>What do you want exactly? For them to update the whole game all at once? Again?
I want a new edition badly.
It's been a year and they are barely at the state it should've been at launch.

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>>54660586
I really think you need to just walk away. You will clearly never be happy and the people who do enjoy the game are sick of your toxic attitude.

Either accept that changes are coming or fuck off. Your bitching accomplishes nothing

>>54660631
>What do you want exactly? For them to update the whole game all at once? Again?
Why the fuck not? They brought in their modern style of small updates and being able to change individual rules bit by bit. They've already invalidated a third of the rule book that comes with the starters and half of the cards they printed a year ago, so yeah, why not just update their rules into being less garbage? Even if Mk. III has essentially been a big beta test so far, no, ESPECIALLY SINCE they launched the new edition with little playtesting in the hopes their players would do it for them, they should dig in and fix their mechanics instead of continually dumbing the game down and hoping that solves their problems.

>>54659836
>worst caster
Morty1 and Morty2 would like to have a word with ye

>>54660691
I have already stopped playing.

Doesn't change the game being shit.
I'll be happy when the game's dead or get a newer and better edition.

When are they going to CID the broken bullshit that is nemo3 and Sloan?

>>54660757
Lances are losing leaps and Hunters are losing AD. Is that not enough?

>>54660697
>>54660663

>Why the fuck not?
Because it's gonna be much harder to do?

Its one thing to adjust the game based on current trends, its another to have no trends, and no trends and no basis for massive comparison and then adjust everything all at once.
Especially since a shit ton of stuff are context dependent.

Again this is what I mean. Your a child who thinks that because some smarties fell on its cone its shit, throw it all away, get me a new one.

>>54660787
>Because it's gonna be much harder to do?
Oh no, why should PP put any effort into their only franchise keeping them existing as a company?

>>54660697
>Why the fuck not?
Because tha shit doesn't work, as demonstrated by everything ever.

>>54660735
Then leave. Pretty sure everyone will be happier

>>54660896
not me, as I said, I want the game dead or new.

Pay attention dude

>>54656590
The frightmare is the missing component, being released on September 13.

That said, it follows battlebox style of requiring a ranged beast/jack, and an arc node if available to the faction.

And now I wonder why the Gator option doesn't have a blind walker.

Also of note, they took out the option to use all in one army box battlegroups to start the journeyman league.

>>54660911
>I want the game dead
>BAW HAW MOMMY THEY NERFED MY TOYS!
>BUT I'LL SHOW THEM BY SHITPOSTING ABOUT THEIR GAME ON THE INTERNET
Hardly have I perceived a more pathetic person.

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>>54660959
Hey, I'm not the one making up shit on an anonymous imageboard so there's that.

>>54660812
Not a perfect comparison, obviously, but FFIV was viciously loathed upon release, so the company behind it sat back and reworked everything from the ground up and now it's widely praised for its quality.

>>54660768
Not even close. The casters are fundamentally fucked up.

>>54660810
>Oh no, why should PP put any effort into their only franchise keeping them existing as a company?
>not me, as I said, I want the game dead or new.

Man your just a jerk. You would really rather nobody enjoy the game because you don't enjoy it. What a miserable person.

Whatever you said your part.

>>54661204
Mind going into a bit more detail? It's also important depending on what faction you play.

>>54652956
It says the models unit is not affected by the order. This implies that the order is given, just not carried out, further implying that an order that can only be given once won't take effect but still can't be given again.

>>54661523
Not sure what you're saying here. A unit can only ever issue one order a turn

>>54659851
The whole pile of them, not just Black Ogrun. Cryx does not have self-sufficient anything, which is why every single caster in their roster provides significant buffs and debuffs. That's been their design philosophy since Prime, it's not news.

You look at it from outside, sure, you might say "banes are good" or "mcthralls are good" or whatever, but you need to think in terms of roles, not points equivalencies. Sure, we have fast, hard-hitting stuff in spades. What about tarpits? Armor/box skew? Long range guns? Volume of fire? We can, and do, make it work but it's all balanced around the caster.

Not to say it's perfect - Denny1 has been a balancing problem since she was released, and Gaspy2 and Denny2 were problematic throughout the entire life of Mk2. But if you want to talk about balance, you have to look at the whole picture, not just one pair of cards. Shit always looks skewed through the lens of another faction.

>>54660503
>So my strawman is correct because your a moron.
This might be the most 4chan sentence I've ever read.

>>54661623
And other factions would be asking "Where are our heavy hitters? Where are our endlessly recurring Infantry?". Just because Cryx doesn't have every possible kind of Infantry doesn't mean they need OP casters to help them.

>>54661623
You have tarpits in the form of Thralls, not every faction has access to box skew (Though you do have access to a caster that hands out unyeilding to jacks), you don't have that many guns yet (And not every faction does either) and not every faction has long range guns. And you have access to the Ghost fleet rifleman anyway.

These problems are not exclusive to Cryx. You already have excellent choices and others that will be revised to be better.
I can respect your argumentation at least.

I just don't see it. I don't see crappy units. I see like 7/10s or 8/10s with some 6s and of course a few sad turds worthy of revision. Some factions do get access to 9/10s but that's for like one unit, and even then they are not always used.

I don't see how 7/10s warrant 10/10 casters.

>>54661789
You don't get it. In competitive warmachine if it's not 10/10 or 11/10 it's garbage and unplayable trash

>>54661899
But that's not necessarily how it works and a big reason why balancing the game from a 0 starting point is near impossible.
A 10/10 that's beaten always and reliably by a 3/10 from another faction in of itself becomes a 9/10 whilst the 3/10 goes up in value.

I am looking at the whole context here.

>>54654390
Styrofoam? What for?

>>54663563
Have you tried hot glue? Doesn't glue that well but fills in cracks well.

Link to the new thread Grymkin themed thread

>>54663959

>>54663997
Bait thread.

>>54660691
>toxic

nice sjw buzzword

>>54661507
You better be getting paid or be Will Shick to shill this hard

Sorry people disagree with your company and the shit you like

>>54665096
Shill?

The guy literally wished for the game I like (I guess for solipsists the idea that somebody else could ACTUALLY enjoy the game) to die because he doesn't like it.

Whats fucking with you? What kind of person is incapable of seeing other people like what he dislikes? Did the game rape you or something?

I don't like GW but at least I don't wish it dead.

>>54665185
It's not that single post, dingus. It's your massive effort every thread to sit personally under Will Hungerford's desk taking in his cock

>>54665239
Err why? I'm not against criticism. Plenty of things wrong with the game. We discuss what should be nerfed/ buffed all the time.

I just don't like shit posters who think that they are the center of the universe and every game should cater to them personally or die.

I don't even have an opinion about Will one way or the other.

>>54665338
>I just don't like shit posters who think that they are the center of the universe and every game should cater to them personally or die.

So ignore them you massive tool

>>54665348
Shitposters will shitpost either way. Either occasional ded gaym spam, or demanding people play guild ball or demanding the game die. Doesn't make a difference if I reply or not.

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>>54663997
I wish I could report you to death.

Considering structures will be the new model type that PP is going to focus on releasing what are your hopes for it in the game? Honestly I feel they take the place of battle engines in armies as the giant base support but I am hopeful they will add more tactical options to the game such as the trencher structure giving out trenches. My only concern is that being immovable they won't put alot presence on the battlefield that will warrant them being take over said battle engine.

>>54665912
Structures are probably an awful idea. Either it's completely useless as it doesn't move to help your army or it's a broken box spam and long range gun shit that basically revisit late mkii or early mkiii cancer.

>>54666966
This. I don't see how structures will avoid the problems that kept people from taking light artillery pieces in previous editions.

So are we just going to make a new thread that isn't bait?

>>54667354
How is that thread b8?

>>54667405

bcuz hurr durr grymkin r bad

Just ignore him.

>>54667444
but grymkin is bad.

>>54667330
Well, they are pretty much environment on demand.

A big part of why the Trencher structure seems like a good thing is because it provides the trenches for the rest of the army.

>>54668345
>>54668345
NEW THREAD
NOT A SHITPOST

>>54663994

I don't understand. Are you saying styrofoam fills in cracks too?