/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

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This isn't my Darius but if I end up getting him I'd want to do it up like this.

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>>54770111
>thread topic
reeeeeee PP conversion policy says you can't change your models ever reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

If there's a drawfag out there listening, we need this with Malekus instead

Yup, those were the days of mkii when people cared.

>>54773362
>5 ShitCoins have been deposited to your account. Thanks for shitposting :^)

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>>54770111

Hey, my question fits right in with this theme!
Got some good responses on this in the last thread, hoping to keep it going.

I'm going to convert my Grymkin to suit a Bloodborne theme. Here's what I'm working with so far, and thanks to the anons who posted in the last thread:

>Dread Rots with their heads as giant masses of eyeballs instead of pumpkins, their vines are going to be optical nerves
>Find a way to make Skin & Moans more wolfy
Someone else said to just use Circle wolves and add shredded skin to their bodies but I'd like if this army could be tournament legal and I'm already pushing it as it is
>Give Dolly a wolf head and give the Child a white ribbon for a more depressing reference
Someone else said to get a cradle to represent Mergo and then his Wetnurse behind him, but I really don't think I'll be able to do a good scratch build job on that, plus there's the whole tournament legal thing.
>Sculpt some extra cloth on the Heretic and give him a cage head to look like Micolash

So that's all I've got so far. I love how so many of these guys already lend themselves very well to a Bloodborne-ish theme. The Wanderer, Hollowmen, Lord Longfellow, Gorehound, Cage Rager, Frightmare (fuck that thing's terrifying), it practically makes itself.

>>54773525

Anon, just don't. You're going to start a cycle, and we don't need another one. Just hide the post if it bothers you.

>>54773531
circle wolves all skinned up and carrying the skin n moans blades *is* tourny legal. PP's conversion policy is actually way more lenient than memes would have you believe.

>>54773706
well, it became more lenient. Their legal language and understanding is fucking retarded though.

>>54773706

I don't know anon. This here has me worried...

>the end result of any conversion must be clearly identifiable as the intended model.
>If the EO cannot independently, easily, and accurately determine which model your conversion represents, the model is not tournament legal.
I feel like that'll be really hit or miss.

>>54774098
Bloody half-skinned heavy warbeast with knife-hands should be easily identifiable as Skin'n'Moans.

>>54774098
Are you planning on going to world tournaments? If not, I'm sure it will fit to 99.9% of everything else.

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>>54774098
you could always label the base like pic related.

>>54774192
These models are the reason why Hungerford eased on the conversion policy.

fucking stupid.

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>>54774542
why is that stupid? PP's old conversion policy sucked ass. plus this army is super cool looking.

>>54770843
You're joking but this might as well be the case. The online community is determined to shoot down any conversion no matter what. Browse the community boards and you'll see some pretty cool and creative stuff but someone will always start a shitstorm over illegal conversations for some stupid fucking reason

>>54774763
I'm saying that it's stupid that it needed to come to that.

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>>54774877
At least we got a sweet fucking robot army out of it

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>>54774905

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>>54775014

Damn robo legion is fuckin cool. Is there a post with all of it somewhere?

>>54775144
https://tomas-mennes.squarespace.com/mecha-legion/

here you go, friend.

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>>54775310

>>54775232
Much obliged

>>54775105
I really hate the "jumping" pose that people do with their warjacks/beasts. It looks fucking stupid, and makes the models look like they have no weight to them. The worst offenders I've seen are Khador. Behemoths, Kodiaks, etc all jumping like they have fucking jetpacks. Stop it.

>>54775434
That looks radical, wew

>>54776692
I give my Griffons rather flighty poses, but they're actually packing anti-grav forcefields. Makes a nice contrast with Ret's chunky-shouldered heavies.

>>54772567
That Nemochev though.

>>54775310
Now I want a Volcano King more than ever.

>>54775434
Question...who are these?

>>54777589
That's Skorne ya dingus.

>>54777952
But the filename quite clearly says Orgoth.

>>54778068
Oh fuck you're right everything I know has been thrown into question.

what're everyone's thoughts on the announcement of surprise themes for everyone coming in September?

>>54779891
Pretty cool. Biggest thing they need to do right now is get themes out for everyone, and this set of themes should get most of the game into a theme.

>>54779891
That's one new theme for each faction?

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>>54778072
The guy who did them is the same guy who did the Stormhammer Khador -> Cygnar conversion up above. He's a novelist who's big into doing "your dudes" conversions in warmachine.

His Skorne conversion is a group of adventurers out of Corvis going down into a sunken Orgoth temple complex in the swamp and accidentally awakening an infernal power and becoming a neo-Orgoth blood empire.

He also just did a werewolf Cygnar army based on his new book series.

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>>54780739

>>54773531
Few more thoughts:

>Someone else said to just use Circle wolves and add shredded skin to their bodies
That's one idea, you could also just do a repose and maybe a head-swap to make the skin and moans more bestial. It doesn't have to be a wolf necessarily... you could add more skeletal features to make it look like Paarl, or do something like the The One's mountain-of-corpses-chic look. The wolves do give you the most versatility though. It might be worth starting with something like Amelia, since less of the body is visible under all that... stuff.

>Someone else said to get a cradle to represent Mergo and then his Wetnurse behind him
That was me. Admittedly a challenging conversion, but if you make it good, I think rule-of-cool trumps most other considerations. I've never known a TO to reject a really good conversion, unless it was also confusing as to what it was supposed to be.

>I love how so many of these guys already lend themselves very well to a Bloodborne-ish theme
Worth pointing out that nothing says you need to convert all the units... you could just restrict yourself to the ones that already fit well.

>>54773743
>Their legal language and understanding is fucking retarded though.
I don't really have a problem with it. It gives the TO sufficient power to allow anything reasonable, but also gives them a leg to stand on when rejecting pieces from the inevitable rules-lawyer jackass. It is what it has to be, given how important piece-recognition is to gameplay.

>>54774765
Because PP started it.

Because PP started everything by adding conversion rules with barely any understanding of what they were writing. Their own ghetorix model is illegal by their own rule. Also the paint scheme can't infringe on other IP so they've gone straight back into "official scheme" mode.

>>54782855
>Their own ghetorix model is illegal by their own rule.
Say what?

>>54783136
This is what bait looks like Anon.

>>54783136
It's because it's not wielding the axe two handed. It's stupid, but by rules ghetorix with claw is a false representation since he doesn't have a open fist claw.

PP answered this by saying that it's an official model, hence not a conversion.which unfortunately means that if you do any conversion work on Ghetorix model, you turn it invalid.

See what I mean by stupid policies?

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>>54782855
>The fish that sees the bait, cannot be caught.

There is no ban on "copyrighted colour schemes", since such a thing can't really exist.. The policy that you're hyper inflating for your whiny bullshit is that you can't paint copyrighted logos or convert your models to be carbon copies for copyrighted characters from other IP.

So you could paint your army in to be in Saskatchewan Roughriders uniforms complete with helmets and shoulder pads, but you couldn't add the logo and have it be valid for official PP events since they tend to stream those and they don't want to be sued for illicit Rider Pride.

I haven't kept up with WarmaHordes for a long time how's 3rd edition?

>>54783750
Transition period was rough, but it's better overall than mk2.

>>54783750
The community has been very mixed at it, but I think the end result will be better.

Some people definitely hate it, and feel like it personally defaced their car, but I think those issues are in the process of getting patched up.

I'd say overall the direction was more balanced and less skewy. Some factions suffered in the transition, but PP has made itself way more open to faster large scale patching so thats getting lots of help.

Your gonna hear the worst things ever about it, but It made me go back to the game personally.

>>54783797
How did Retributuin of Scyrah hold up, also any new factions?

>>54780669
No, there will be enough new themes so that every currently available model has a theme list it can be part of.

>>54783860
Really Really well. Maybe not the most powerful (Like Top 3) its one of the factions with the LEAST amount of chaff. Good place to be. Also recently all the Nyss joined up with them if you like new models.

New Faction is Grymkin. Its a hordes one with a mixup of rules, and...mixed opinions on models.

Its got some great conceptual ones, and some bad ones that I think could benefit from just some touch ups.

>>54783797
Is the meta still all heavies all the time?

>>54783291
You say that but I bought that model and have legit tried to throw something twice my first couple of games with it. I know thats my fault but it was frustrating lol

>>54783686
Yeah no. Streamers are not responsible for corporate representation by players. NASCAR broadcasts do not need to acquire a right to every corporate decals on Dale Earnhardt Jr's car to film it. Only way any streamer can get into trouble is if there's a deliberate attempt by the streamer to disparage the copyright in question.

>>54784449
No. It's definitely moving away from that. Quickly and strongly.

>>54783340
>>54782855
Tell me how you've managed to survive so long with your head that far up your own ass

>>54785212
I dunno, PP's been doing it longer. Ask them.

>>54785212
How'd you type all that with your head in that cavernous buttocks of yours buddy?

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>>54782855
>>54783340

>>54784883
Well, you say that, but that's explicitly the reason for the rule. They came right out and said it. IIRC the specific case was somebody painting their army as marvel characters that triggered it. It's one of those things that's just in there so they can cover their ass if they get sued. I've been a TO a couple dozen times and probably played in more than a hundred "official" events. I've never even heard of an actual player in a RL tourney getting DQ'd over that.

Same generally goes for the other conversion policy complaints. The "issues" are all wacky hypotheticals constructed by players who don't even leave their houses - actual games, in actual competitive settings, it holds up fine. Sure, once in a while, you'll get some dick rules-lawyer trying to pull something over on you, or a jerk of a TO that just refuses to see reason, but they're the rare exception (and in my experience those people would be problematic no matter how the rules were written).

Newbie starting a journeyman league in two weeks. Sell me on a faction /tg/? Not mercs/minions/convergence or Grymkin. Itll be more for a painting project and to meet some people than anything so im looking for a fun battlebox.

Trolls looked really attractive to me but not having a heavy seemed kinda stupid.

>>54788547
Skorne is an excellent painting project. Praetorians in particular look fantastic when effort is put into them.

>>54788547
honestly, as many troll heavies as I have I'm way more hyped about Elemental Trolls more than anything. They have so much personality to them!

>>54788547
what do you like about trolls? is it the aesthetic?

Missing out on heavies for the first few weeks is pretty crippling in a Journeyman league, but the box is fine-ish just to start out with trolls in a non-Journeyman context.

The Impaler is just completely worthless, but Ragnor, the Axer, and the Bouncer are all good gets.

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>>54788547
>>54788757
Yeah, the first match with Troll will be ass, but now that the next point increment is 15 points, you can straight up add a Dire Troll Mauler
Mauler+Ragnor=EXTREME PAIN
Also, to be fair, Ragnor's feat with heavies in a regular 0 pt battle box game would be completely retarded

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Greetings /tg/ I come to you today because I'm looking to start a new faction. I kind of bored with playing Circle Orboros, and I'm currently torn between two armies, I'm currently looking at Cryx, and after watching the Gavyn Kyle files, I'm liking what the Congregration are getting for new goodies, however I'm not to familiar with the Minions faction, thanks in advance!

>>54787677
Everyone can be sued, the question is whether there's a case. Everyone can be sued at any point for any reason. PP does not monetize the streaming or the sale of anything resembling existing ip.

If someone brings in bunch of conversions, that is not PP's responsibility. PP has such a poor grasp of this.

I'm going to disregard your entire DQ thing because it has nothing to do with lawsuits.

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>>54788929
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp7OLEJmSpU

Minions are in a good spot now. Barnabus is really rad with the Gatormen Posse in theme (only play them in theme, Farrow Brigands are better out of it). Rask is top tier and has a fun list style called "superfriends" where you bring all the paired junior warlocks (WrongEye, Dalhlia, Rorsh, etc.) and he has a strong feat and spell list. The new stuff coming out for minions all looks really rad too, especially that solo that removes Pathfinder and Flight from a model and makes them treat all open ground as rough terrain.

>>54789366
I can't wait for the Dracodile, Animus creates water and spits corrusion, plus the model itself looks great from what I have seen.

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>Old Witch unleashes the Grymkin because the armies of man/other assorted races can't stand up to the evil gods Thamar made a deal with
>but the armies of man/assorted races can stand up to the Grymkin
Is it just me, or does this plan seem retarded

>>54793472
>Is it just me, or does this plan seem retarded
It's PP for ya.

>>54793472
Its more like

>Thamar makes a deal
>Humans keep sinning
>Infernals getting stronger
>Infernals gonna manifest and take their end of the deal
>Old Witch releases Grymkin
>Grymkin kills sinners
>Infernals get weaker
>Deal never happens

At least that is the plan. Whether or not its a wise one is an entirely other story.

It's a decent plan considering grymkin are naturally occurring all over whereas convincing every government ( likely full of the targets in question ) to allocate resources to extra-judiciously kill people would be pretty hard.

>>54789366
>Minions
I think you'll find those are Skorne releases, friend ;^)

>>54789112
There's two separate concerns - those of PP and those of the players. I was speaking to both. Privateer is a private, for-profit company with established IP and several steady income streams. Like any such entity, they are risk-averse. Getting sued costs money and time, regardless of who "wins", and almost never produces any material benefit for the defendant. It's therefore in their best interest to avoid anything that could even potentially trigger a lawsuit. If their lawyers are any good, they'd advise them of as much. It's the same reason they discontinued the PG program. The risks outweighed the reward.

My 2nd point was, as a player, none of that really matters. I bring it up to highlight the conversion policy for what it is. It's a GUIDELINE for organizers and players, and also a published document PP can point to if they get into a conflict. That's it. It's down to the individual TO's to allow reasonable conversions and DQ unreasonable ones.

>>54795854
>I think you'll find those are Skorne releases, friend
Heh, this isn't Mk2 anymore, SkorneAnon. Minions are almost (kinda (sorta)) like a real faction now!

>>54797890
You haven't seen the new minion theme for skorne I'm guessing, lol

>>54798399
Did you not... did the sarcasm not come across? I really thought the "almost kinda sorta" thing would have cemented it. I even put all those parentheses in there, to hammer it home. Huh.

>>54793587
Why don't we have an Infernal Army yet?

>>54798597
The collective whining of Minions players has already caused PP to back down. Like we already know that the Gargantuan will not be usable by skorne, so I'm pretty sure PP will be forced to tone it down some more.

>>54798719
Eh, not really worried about that. They let me have Road Hogs with Morgoul2, you won't hear any complaints from me.

There's not that many real noobstomp assassinations in the game anymore (and relatively few in Skorne with nuKarn being so much less bouncy than his predecessor), so I've caught quite a few people out with that one. Even after all these years, most casters still really don't like boosted POW 12's.

>>54798399
Speaking of which, are enraged Archidons under Battleboar Primal a thing?

>>54797857
The PG program is the legal issue of one being unable to volunteer for a profits company with actual job like repercussions.

Stream is not a monetized practice for them. It's a completely different matter.

>>54798681
Because the devs wanted Halloween town

>>54801348
>Stream is not a monetized practice for them. It's a completely different matter.

Still though, why risk it? Lots of big brands are super defensive of their IP, why run the risk of having any legal action taken against them? As Anon said it would still cost them money to defend.

And realistically, how many people does this even effect?

>>54801953
Existing as a company is a risk. Saying or writing anything is a risk. As mentioned before, people can be sued for anything. Marvel can sue them right now claiming warmachine is a copyrighted name.

It's a stupid thing for them to be hung up on, even more stupid when by your own admission affects so little people.

>>54802447
So why are you hung up on it?

>>54802681
Engaging in a conversation is not being hung up on it. PP's policy is dumb. If someone tells me that it's not, then I will refute that. Because that's what a conversation is. Series of replies.

>>54801371
...darn.

Well, maybe they could be the Hordes faction?

What do we know about them so far?

>>54802975
>Well, maybe they could be the next Hordes faction we get?
Why can't I type good today?

>>54802975
Beyond the old RPG stuff, not much.

I suspect continent of Zu before internals though. Then again, pp is dumb and maybe push infernals so people can get a double dose of edginess

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>>54802975

>>54803084
Noice.

I think it would be quite interesting to have a rule that the Conscripti and Deci-Conscripti enter disguised as humans...and then transform.

Couple this with something that means you choose which Beast/Unit(+Attachments) breaks out of which disguise and they could be tactically interesting.

>>54803286
Plus they have an excess of Unit Attachments and no Solo's

The also only have two actual Units of Deci-Conscripti, a shooty one and a fighty one, both 5 models each. The Unit Attachments basically work like Spooky Demon Biotech for the Unit they unveil with.

Is there a good source of WarmaHordes bits online? I'm looking for Ret and Legion parts in particular for some conversion work.

>>54803535
Hoard o bits. Majority of stuff are on PP site

>>54803084

Bit of worldbuilding I always liked:

The Cryxian Warwitch references the old Orgoth Warwitch tradition, which in turn seems to at least overtly resemble Umbral Warriors (and the Orgoth were infernalists after all).

Long story short, Denny1 looks like a demon.

>>54801371
speaking of which, how is halloween town so far? ive been looking at starting them as a secondary faction.

>>54804604
They're pretty cool. They have some great faction synergy and a lot of really nice pieces as far as we can tell. Still polarizing but that's just how it is. I'm probably gonna do a small force for Company of Iron.

>>54804604
If you can stand their god fucking awful design, they are pretty good/borderline broken against select armies.

>>54804604
Some of the best rules in the game.

0 chaff. Every thing they have is good and vital.

>>54804295
Mk2 had the alternate history warcaster Jezrael (Cryx Victoria Haley) who you were supposed to use with an Umbral Warrior model. She had one extra point of ARM compared to Denny because of the shield.

Do Grymkin get utterly rolfstomped by Convergence?

>>54805844
Your salt, it fuels me

>>54806742
Nope

>>54804604

I've got a Grymkin army, they're a lot of fun to play. No completely useless units, everything's got its' place. Interesting (and super fucking trolly) abilities instead of feats. Most of the model design is good, barring a few exceptions.
>piggybacks
Ugh
>dread rots
Eh, not terrible but not good
>imps/gremlins
Absolutely fucking hate em

Lord Longfellow, The Child, Hollowmen, Frightmare, Skin n' Moans, and so many others are just fucking awesome.

While I'm here, question about Arcana: Pandemonium
>The warlock can play this card when an enemy non-warcaster, non-warlock model issues an order while in the warlock's control range. The model's unit is not affected by the order. Warlock and Warcaster units are not affected by Pandemonium.

Does this mean they cannot do anything else? Usually an order such as a charge is going to be all a unit can do. So if you use Pandemonium when a unit tries to charge, are they still going to be able to normal advance and do any attacks afterwards? Or are they just done for that turn?

Is new!Borka2 better in PoD or SotN?

>>54809651
The order doesn't take effect, thus they don't cede their actions to an order and still have a full activation.
"Target unit attempting to charge ends its activation instead" on the fly once per game would be Haley2+ level of bullshit

>>54809722
I'm honestly not sure. Borka2 can make all his beasts benefit from the hooch hauler, and his feat benefits all those immune:cold warriors, but aside from that, he doesn't really do much to support non battle group stuff.
I think they're both good, it just depends what you want to get out of your list.

>>54809787
It was originally you couldn't issue orders at all

>>54809722
Tough choice. Probably PoD if you want to go full warbeast boat and SotN if you want to go combined arms.

>>54806742
Nope.

Their Arcana can turn em human. And since they can select arcana depending on opponent (As well as their theme granting corpses already), they just don't care.

I actually really like that effect.

>>54810153
>Look at the pumpkins
>Back at me
>The pumpkins
>Back at me
>All of your robots are fleshbags now
>I'm on a nightmarish horse head on a stick

>>54810345

Somebody please for the love of God shoop Isaiah on a neigh slayer.

>>54810477
Honestly, what shocks me about the piggybacks and the neighslayers is that they are like 3 minor edits from being great.

Have the Niehslayers ride on the Piggybacks people. Its a much crueler idea. That Nights that stood tall on horses now have had their horses decapicated and now are forced to carry their killers. Maybe mutate them into horse shapes. Like Malformed horse Knights.

The Piggybacks just need a touch more supernatural. I recommend monster stomachs that function also as cages. Gluttons being eaten alive forever sounds much more like an appropriate punishment to me.

>>54810874
God why is this so much better than the actual fluff/models.

>>54810874
have the Neighslayers people be like converted Sword Knights wearing the decapitated horse heads

>>54810937
That's another one I like. Maybe Mutant Bodies? I still like Gremlins on top riding them.

Keeps the whole "Punish the Wicked" theme. Like "Punish those that rode high and mighty by riding them and reducing them to Animals"

>>54810874
I think Piggybacks would be better if they were horrifically fused with the pig, with normal sized humans

>>54789366
Redpill me on this... Superfirends list.
Seems fun and I love possies too.

>>54814535
It's fun, just go play it

>>54816934
I meant what to put what not what I am looking for etc...

>tfw no vassal frie ds

>>54804604
>Halloweentown as a 2nd faction
They're pretty perfect for a second faction, since you can jump in quick and they're so limited. At the same time, they're too weird to make a good starter faction.

In hindsight, I kinda wish all the factions had been designed this way... as small, complete mini-factions. And then just, instead of always giving them new units, make more mini factions with lots of merc and ally rules so everybody gets new toys that way. Grymkin feel like the game was circa escalation. The original factions now are so bloated it's ridiculous.

>>54803477
>Plus they have an excess of Unit Attachments and no Solo's
The umbral warrior, sorceror and assassin would probably all be solos. They are lower than the deal-making "real" infernals, who would presumably be the casters, but they think and act independently.

>>54817940
>The original factions now are so bloated it's ridiculous.

That's kinda literally their intent with themes. Trenchers are now a condensed mini themes, Gun Mages will have a future mini theme, Northkin are a condensed mini theme.

I get that direction. They are not as elegant as the standalone mini factions I know, but its a good salvage job in my mind.

>>54818221
>Gun Mages will have a future mini theme
They already have one, it's garbage

>>54818533
Its being rebuilt (Starting August the 24rth) and the new guy will be a vital stable.

Turns out he has a richochette shotgun (Shoot a target, then the target sprays) and alternate shots like applying a damage buff to friendlies targeting the target with magic weapons.

>>54818798
still going to be a 14/11 5 wound solo...

>>54818917
.....And? It's a solo that provides a damage buff. Those are pretty rare in the game. All its abilities indicate it can remain at a pretty good distance.

That's Cygnar for you.

"Hey you get a fucking game changing toy!"
"Well it's not indestructible so its shit"

Not even gonna think for a second how it will interact with Cain? Or magical weaponed Jacks?

>>54811113
Personally I would probably have the gremlins riding headless horses, and have them carry the horse heads on sticks.

>>54819156
Thats another neat one, but they are also Small Based. So that would be difficult.

>>54818221
>Themes are not as elegant as the standalone mini factions I know, but its a good salvage job in my mind.
Yeah, that's fair. My objection is that most of the theme lists are really, really inflexible. A lot of them can only really be built one way. They tend to retain some of the bloat (esp with casters and jacks / beasts) and go overboard with the pruning in other areas, like units. If their goal was to establish mini-factions, the only ones that really nailed it are the merc and minion ones.

>>54820927
Don't know about other factions but I think Defenders of Ios has a decent amount of flexibility. The benefits hit enough model types that you don't have to be completely pigeonholed.

Of course people are still talking about double halbs so what do I know.

>>54820927
>If their goal was to establish mini-factions, the only ones that really nailed it are the merc and minion ones.

Well lets see how they go. Like the Bane theme is supposed to have Bane Snipers.

That would be a pretty big game changer for Banes and even Cryx in general.

Not sure about the Northkin, but there is evidence to suggest that they can play a ranged game, a Melee game, and a Beast Game, and mixes of the ones. So that gives me solid optimism.

Not sure about Trenchers, but Cygnar is generally a faction of people that only demand victory on a plate, so I didn't see much experimentation from them.

REVELATOR RELEASE CONFIRMED FOR NOVEMBER REALLY THIS TIME HOLD ONTO YOUR BUTTES

>>54821542
I heard what caused it was that some mould problems in china.

Is Swamp Horror good in mk3? I kinda want the new model.

>>54823138
The new Sexy Model?

>>54824168
No, the other new model.

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>>54779525
Mine's better

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>>54824626

>>54822499
Pretty much

Can someone post the link for NQ 72?

>>54825158

http://www21.zippyshare.com/v/9BAQ2WTB/file.html

>>54822499
>unsure if baiting

Get ready for desert hydra tier quality then.

>>54825933
Im no baiter. I liked my colossal allot (conquest) but pp has bad luck with gargossals in general.

Dear Privateer Press: if you ever get around to doing a Destor/Raven CID, please make Ryssovass distinct while you're at it

Defenders and Aelyth are fucking gorgeous models but they're probably going to end up sitting on my shelf the moment I finish painting them.

I didn't see the link for ikrpg stuff, anyone got those? I'm looking to make a trollkin fellcaller longrider.

>>54829968
it's in the book dump in the OP.

>>54830028
Herpderp, thanks!

Has anyone converted models specifically for Company of Iron yet?

>>54829706
They are unique. They're best against low-volume/high-value attacks. Most heavies have little trouble hitting and killing Sents or Halbs, Ryssovass make boosting more of a consideration and have the chance to Tough even if you do hit. In exchange they can slice out cortexes and arms as needed. They're also significantly cheaper than our other Weapon Master unit.

>>54830070
been looking at some iron kingdoms stuff to bring character to whatever faction i end up getting for company of iron.

>>54830829
I know I'm getting the box anyway. My wife wants the farrow so I'm stuck to swans even though I play menoth and trolls. Oh well. I'm really excited for how I can wrap CoI and Unbound games into a four month league thing

>>54821305
Defenders of Ios stands out as both extremely good and extremely flexible, yes.

>Of course people are still talking about double halbs so what do I know.

You can be in Shield Wall on the center line at the top of 1. They threaten 13" on a charge and hit at MAT 8 POW 14 on minifeat turn. Defenders gives them even more mobility. So, yeah, double Halbs are really fucking good.

But you can run Defenders in a lot of ways because a) you get 16 free points out of it, and b) you can qualify for free stuff both with infantry or the Arcantrik Force Generator, and that thing is beastly by itself.

It's one of the few themes that you can really run a balanced force and get full benefits.

>>54825933
Rumor is that the Revelator was supposed to come out immediately after the Hydra, but got pushed off due to problems with the Hydra's quality, and they couldn't redo the Hydra because they already had shipments of it allocated.

>>54830070
I wanna finish up the stuff I have before I decide on any new purchases.

>>54830426
My real problem is with Aelyth. He's paying to be a pseudo-UA, but doesn't give his buddies a commonly relevant boost and fights like a 'jackless Scyir who wants to be killed for a revenge hit with a 1/3 chance to not get thrown out afterwards.

thinking about picking up circle. do i stand a chance against a ghost fleet, legion, khador, and grymkin meta? or should i abandon it before i even start?

>>54806473
So in that universe Denny is trying to rescue her sister from Cryx.

I do wonder if there should be AUCasters from the history where they both got taken and from the history where neither of them got taken.

>>54833665
Actually in that universe, Cryx got both of the sisters iirc.

>>54833720
lewds?

Also that still leaves a slot open for a timeline where neither of them were taken.

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>spell immune
>no KD
>that fucking spell list
>spell mimic
>fucking Arcana (picked at the start of every match because why the hell not)
I guess my plans to learn Rahn are getting shelved until the swarm of local Grymkin box bandwagoners settles down.

>>54833844
The Heretic is a good boy, he dindu nuffin!

>>54833619
>Ghost Fleet
gg ez. Circle curbstomps ghost fleet almost accidentally. Dark Host is a bigger concern.
>Legion
Pretty even
>Khador
Beatable, unless they bring 8-9 Heavies. You can pretty much only win by assassination.
>Grymkin
No experience (yet)

>>54830925
eh, I play cygnar but the exclusive cygnar leader looks amazingly uninspired. The minions side may be worth it but as i already have everything else on the cygnar side.

Why are there non-dwarf mercenary Warcasters who work for Protectorate? Wouldn't they be burned as witches?

>>54837751
Also Thorn Gun Mages, Taryn and Orin?

>>54837751
>>54837867
It think it falls under the same catagory as Warjacks i.e. "technically this is heresy, but we really need them now so Menoth will forgive us"

>>54818798
>Deadeye crit brutal pow 12 gun mages
>Marshalled cyclone with 2d3 pow 16s
>Brutal pow 12 420 blazers
>Pow 14 brutal shot Ryan/black 13th

Are gun mages an armor cracking them now? Definitely need shield guards for this guy though they'll be gunning for him.

>>54833844
The Heretic seems pretty nuts. Granted, I haven't done any playtesting with the Grymkin models, but at a glance he's clearly a step above the other Defier warlocks. I feel like they went overboard with all the special rules - does he really need spell immunity, knockdown immunity, blind immunity, and autohitting dispel attacks in addition to his ability to replicate enemy spells? It would be acceptable if he had terrible stats or a limited spell list but no, motherfucker has it all.

>>54837962
I feel like it's different. Warjacks are heretical but they are THINGS. Damiano, Bart, Magnus etc are foreign amoral witches who made a lifestyle out of being murderous witches and have killed pious Sul-Menites on behalf of infindel nations before.

>>54838194
He's got the hardest trump arcana to effectively use and he's does the least to protect his infantry, all of which have some pretty shit stats.

He's the biggest personal presence on the table of the Grymkin, yes, but he's going to have the hardest time delivering his army.

>>54838234
Yes, but the Menites have to constantly balance their religious beliefs with simple pragmatism.

If not for the hiring of mercs, especially early on, they would have never survived as a nation, and a lot of the resistance was vital to their gains in Llael.

>>54831810
That's fair. I like him a lot in theory but I'll admit I don't have a ton of table time with him yet. He feels like he might be fair at 5 points without worrying about the Leadership but it may come down to how lucky you get either Tough. If he can Tough once or twice that could be a huge swing, otherwise he's slower and only slightly hard-hitting than something like Narn or MHA. He's probably a good Storm Rager target if Thyron could afford to cycle it anymore.

Quick I'm about to play against Coven in a little bit. I have never played against them, what do?
Playing as Trollbloods for reference.

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Customer at my store really loves Thomas

>>54842501
God damn that is scary.

>>54842501
It's a good thing terror checks are no longer in the rules because goddamn

>>54843194
Good point, it'd definitely be an illegal conversion under WYSIWYG if Terror/Abomination still existed.

>>54842501
Man, I forgot how great the new Behemoth Sculpt is.
Mind is only an old one, magnatized to be standing atop a downed crusader.

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Man, is there a bigger "fuck you" rule to a faction than grievous wounds is to Trollbloods?

>>54842501
Thus Khador thought of a way to scare the ever living shit out of the Legion with but a single warjack.....it worked

>>54845074
knockdown. Like grevious wounds, but also fucks up activation and easier to hit their already low def.

>>54845788
Yeah but to who
I'm talking about rules that screw over specific factions

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>>54845592
>Everblight's response

>>54838264
He actively wants you to shoot at his dudes and on the off chance he doesn't he has piles of shield guards

>>54849248
Well it can be played around. The shroud Arcana requires a target in the Command range as opposed to the control range. So it forces more conservative deployment, next up the shield guards are great, but are still pretty expensive if you wanna rack them up continuously. Each one can take about 1 or two hits. They can't protect the entire army on their own.

Need some help with a 4shade list
point is to use moros to make models easier to hit with Helios and the Stormfall. One of my issues is marshalling Moros under Elara to increase his mobility and make sure he can move out of threat ranges. But I don't know if that is better than having him be able to use Mage sight under 4shade?
https://conflictchamber.com/#c5101bhH1ggj9v3ye1eP2V313x3x

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points

(Goreshade 4) Lord Ghyrrshyld, The Forgiven [+28]
- Chimera [8]
- Helios [34]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4]
- Moros [11]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
Stormfall Archers [9]
Stormfall Archers [9]

>>54845074
Incorporeal against Khador.

>>54851068
Why?
Is Khador severely lacking in magic weapons?

>>54855165
Yes in a nutshell.

Doomreavers or greylords only in a nutshell.

Expensive and fragile.

>>54855668
I mean, Karchev deals with it, if they've got A&H that deals with it, the Forge Seer can give magic weapon out, they've got some pretty good counters.

>>54856286
Blowing a feat to kill couple of ghosts is pretty inefficient. A&H are not in any theme. Forge seers also aren't gonna get those ghosts killed efficiently.

>>54783340

Don't expect professionalism out of PP. They're a bunch of kids running a company, that got lucky with one ruleset and half baked IP.

Anytime they try anything serious outside of rehashing the same ruleset since forever, they fail.

>>54818009
So having the other Units/UAs be Deci-Conscripti and giving them a similar advance deployment rule to the Conscripti Warbeasts would be fine then?

>>54856638
>A&H are not in any theme

Except all of them.

>>54858170
No they aren't.

>>54847691
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA-Vv7UPlt8

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Anyone have experience with this guy? He seems like a good anti infantry tech against non-Cygnar factions in a Beast Brick list.

>>54806742
Why would they?

>>54860723
Construct infantry denying corpse tokens, but Grymkin have ways around that.

>>54859551
Take Rok. Stormtroll is trash

>>54861832
I can't take Rok in PoD you dumb dumb

>>54861853
Sounds like a game problem.

>>54861938
What, that I can't take a character beast in PoD unless I'm using one of the Borka's?
How is that an issue?

>>54861998
I would say not being able to take what you need to take is an issue

>>54821423
I'll come back when Skorne has a selection of lists - PP really dropped the ball, and lost momentum by not having all factions with at least two lists released at the same time.

>>54864948
Well, apparently September is Theme month, cause they are dropping a bunch of themes flat out, no CID.

>>54865673
>Ret still have Dawnguard, House Vyre (sort of), and now Nyss stuck playing out of theme
I wonder if elves are going to get spoiled or blue balled next month.

>>54866201
I think they were getting one? I dunno.

>>54864948
Oh for sure. Its a very bad thing they did the way they did.

Here is MKIII in Bizzaro Goodland:

>Soles gets a muzzle and internet privileges revoked. Even if he did make the game he has no idea how to handle consumers.
>MKIII is in development for 3 years. PP reveals MKIII (As we witnessed it). They say it's unfinished and announce cid for people to play it and finish the game up.
>They will go faction by faction as to ensure quality and some semblance of stability. They list off the design intentions with MKIII such as why theme forces exist. Some period of time is played without CID but thats so people have an understanding of how the game plays in practice. All theme forces are released.
>For the next year or so people make the CID. Models for MKII are still rolled out during this period.
>For the next years Keynote the game is announced finished or the like (So battleboxes are shipped) and the new models are previewed.
>Aso Grymkin are previewed as a sidenote.
>Gameplay hype momentum is maintained, game is received well, and any problems could be sorted out before "Release Date".

That would be Wonderland Goodland with MINIMAL changes to the current timeline.

>>54866756
Every possible theme will be dropped. No matter the model, It will be in a theme.

>>54866878
I think the timeline for that is December. As far as I know, the September drop is one theme per faction, and Ret's is rumored to be Dawnguard.

That would just leave Nyss and putting Electromancers somewhere (with a Vyre theme being the most obvious place for them).

>>54866861
That might be great for us players except that PP would go out of business without any sales for a year. I agree that the launch wasn't smooth but we know that almost no one bought anything during the MkII field test and they have a lot more employees to pay now. There was no way they were ever going to be able to pull off an even larger playtest during which no existing player would buy shit.

Asphyxious the Hellbringer

Run him right into enemy infantry and bait assassination?

>>54833844
>>54838194
I did playtest him, all through CID and under current rules. He's certainly good, probably the best all-rounder of grymkin warlocks. Reminds me in a lot of ways of playing Stryker2, with his combination of strong support kit and personal threat. He's a lot of fun, and one of the easiest grymkin casters to learn.

I would not, however, put him in the same class as top-tier control casters. I'm not even sure he outpaces those in his own faction. Dreamer, Wanderer and KoN are all a lot harder to get your head around, but I've given opponents fits with those three. With Heretic, most people are at least familiar with the style and have a sense of how to respond to it.

If you were to assemble two Witchwoods for a Grymkin army and wanted to swap the temptress lady with a Fabio type dude on one what model would you use for the conversion?

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>>54865673
>dropping a bunch of themes flat out, no CID.

>>54861853
>Not playing Bearka

>>54871247
>Dawnguard Sentinels in this army gain Countercharge

>Skorne Warbeasts in this army again Tactician: Friendly Faction

>Convergence small based Construct Infantry models gain Tough and Steady

Anyone else with mad predictions?

>>54871365
That Ret and CoC shit would be bonkers.

I hope they have an FA bump for Enigma Foundries in the CoC theme.

>>54871365
>Convergence gets MKII Axis tier

>>54871247
>dropping a bunch of themes flat out, no CID.
Well, they're supposed to be in CID simultaneously anyway, right? So if something turns out to be busted, it's only going to be live with out getting fixed for a month or two... really no worse than the traditional release-and-errata model. Honestly, they may end up being MORE balanced, since more people will feel like adding their playtest data to the CID.

>>54871247
It happens later when their turn happens. They are just releasing them all at the moment so every unit has a theme to call home so that people don't complain.

What would it take to make Tharn Bloodpack good?

>>54873110
pro players using them at top tables. change the perception, and the reality follows suit.

>>54869610
>I agree that the launch wasn't smooth but we know that almost no one bought anything during the MkII field test and they have a lot more employees to pay now

Source?

Mk 2 official launch was a huge success for PP. Mk 3 launch was a huge failure.

Wonder what the difference is

>>54871690
>will feel like adding their playtest data to the CID.

lol, fucking hilarious. Have you been to the CID forums?

>>54871365
>tough and steady

my body is ready

>>54873110
A moonhound and a curse of shadows caster, oh shit we already got those.

>>54874128
The launch was, yes, but talk to any store owner about the six months or so between announcement and release and they'll tell you how terribly Warmachine sold. No one in their right mind was buying stuff that they didn't know would be useful when the final rules dropped. PP weathered it by being a small shop but they probably have three times the staff now and I doubt they've ever been profitable enough to have 6+ months of payroll just sitting around.

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>>54872000
So PP is flip flopping yet again about their releases?

>>54875285
No the releases remain the same. Just the rules are being released.

>>54875437
With no CID after they started to do CID because they can't be trusted

>>54875597
With no CID because people are rightfully annoyed that some factions have more themes than others and there are many models that aren't allowed in any theme in an increasingly theme-focused game and CID takes time.

Seriously if you're just gonna sit around bitching why show up?

>>54875713
If PP won't stick to their word, why even say anything?

>>54875939
to make you bitch and moan, apparently.

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Why is ADR Season 6 so god awful? I mean overall, not just for my faction. The only good one is Trolls, while Skorne got the biggest stinker by far, followed by mercs.

But to give some insight on Khador anyways; You have 3 casters which want to play Iron Fang theme and one caster which you don't want to play at all, because he's awful.

>>54876235
Skorne looks way better in the context of DoA

>>54876235
Who is awful?

>>54874154
>Have you been to the CID forums?
Of course. It could use a broader perspective and more testers. If the themes are already live, and people already freaking out about them, it will generate interest in fixing them.

>>54871365

Wasn't there one where Gun Mages gained sniper in the Llael theme force?

>skorne beast theme: heavies gain repo 3"

>Calaban's betrayal tehme force: Calaban and Maelok gain backstab

>>54876402
None of them are awful, they're just not the top spot S tier casters that dude wants. It's fucking ADR, they're not going to put Hark and Vlad1 in there, plus all those casters that "want Iron Fangs" also do work in WGK and probably can do fun things in the upcoming Man o War and Greylords themes.

>>54874024
>pro players using them at top tables. change the perception, and the reality follows suit.
True. It's like when Doomy1 was terrible, and his theme force was unredeemable trash. And then absolutely nothing changed with his rules or releases, and then he was the most broken caster in the game.

>>54876968
I mean, maybe zerkova is bad, but more than bad she's zerkova the spellcaster with no good nodes.

>>54876974
Or for a more recent example, when everyone ripped on Ghost Fleet when it was released.

>>54877009
Zerkova1 and Strakhov2 are both strong in Legion of Steel and this has been seen competitively.

>>54876402
>>54877009
Kozlov. He is actually terrible, almost as bad as Malakov2, who is the worst in faction. Kozlov's feat is a shitty one-time crusaders call and his upkeep reliance means he can't fuel his own army. Playing Kozlov feels like playing mk2 Khador without DEF skew, it's so bad. Also, unyielding is so bad. It's so easy to circumvent. On an objective level, he is the worst upkeep caster in a roster with 3 upkeep casters, so why would ever?

Zerkova1 is S-tier in Legion of Steel. Check discount before shitposting.

>>54876968
Okay, no Harkevich or Vlad1. What about Sorscha1 or Vlad2? aka, two of the last remaining 4 caster in the entire game who enjoy not being in a damn theme force?
Or Butcher1, who would make a lot better of a "just take whatever, I'm the JOAT battlebox guy" impression than Kozlov, Turd of Turdsgrad.

>>54877492
>Kozlov. He is actually terrible, almost as bad as Malakov2, who is the worst in faction

Seriously? No he isn't. Hes pretty great. Immensely survivable, with a good feat for jacks and some nice extra jank on top. Better then Harkevitch in my opinion.

Id say Zerkova 2 has the weakest game.

>>54877844
Kozlov can't play defense, because he doesn't have any good defensive buffs.

Kozlov can't play offense, because his only speed buff to go along with Fury is a feat

Kozlov is reasonably tough, but doesn't have any assassination potential, so why care?

This caster is a mess. Not to mention that his upkeep reliance is so easily exploited by more things than you'd think. Have fun getting shot to death by Circle dildoguns and don't even think you are scaring any Kreoss player. They will just shake their bell once before knocking you flat on your ass.

Harkevich does almost everything better than Kozlov in close to every conceivable way:
Personal Defense: Harkevich is harder to kill thanks to Iron Sentinel
Focus Efficiency: Harkevich needs 3 Focus to cast Mobility, Kozlov needs 3 Focus to upkeep his shit. Harkevich gets free charges once, so Harkevich leads.
Pathfinder access: Mobility is better than Solid Ground, because it gives +2 speed.
ARM buff: +3 is better than +2, even moreso if your +2 is situational

Kozlov gets fury (which is good) and no Knockdown (which is useful), but they're upkeeps. And too many upkeeps spoil the maintenance phase.

There's a reason why we've seen some success/experiments with Harkevich, while nobody would ever bring Kozlov to a tourney unless he lost a bet the day before.

The big question is also what you play with Kozlov:
- Iron Fangs?
No, because he doesn't help them reach melee alive
- Man-O-Wars?
Work well with Reposition and appreciate feat, but no real armor buff means difficulty tanking a zone for long
- Kayazy
Possibly the worst Kayazy caster in Khador, aside from Karchev and Zerkova2
- Winter Guard
Does literally nothing for them in the slightest.

>Id say Zerkova 2 has the weakest game.
A Zerkova2 memelist can assassinate most of the warmahordes cast in one feat turn. That's a lot more likely to pull off than winning attrition with the worst attrition caster in Khador.

>>54874024
I mean though...

Have you looked at what they actually bring compared to in faction ranged competition?

An unboostable rat 6 pow 13 for 3 points.

Compared to bloodtrackers or baby shrimps?

Even against Reeves which blow them out of the water against light infantry they are only slightly better against armor.

They're super fragile for their price also.

>>54878276
I meant Malakov 2. Kozlov is a guy lacking a last good worthwhile spell.

>>54878645
WHy is malakov trash?
Where can I find a khador prime?

>>54878703
I meant Malakov 2 is a good caster in my mind. People underestimate him quite a bunch.

>>54878703
He needs two turns to do anything he wants.

Who's the best Menoth caster for infantry attrition, and what are the must-have models for it?

>>54878645
Oh, sorry about that.

Malakov's issues are basically broken down in that he's doing what Irusk1 does, just worse (except for the being shot to death)

His feat is super cool (and probably super tilting to see in action) but it doesn't align with his kit at all (tightly focused infantry caster with a battlegroup feat? wat)

Malakov also kind of wants Kayazy, because they can actually hit something to make it knockdown, but they don't really need backstab every turn and he doesn't have blast protection? It's rough.

>>54770111
Thread's starting to sage, new one at >>54879060

>>54879074
Nevermind, I'm too newfag to double-check. Ignore that.

>>54876934
The problem is that testing is in fact hard work, and in CID it's unpaid drudge work at best.
Most people aren't interested in putting in that level of effort, especially when it seems obvious their input isn't really that useful anyway.
PP dump out obviously broken shit and then scale it back according to their own whims, and CID is more of a placebo to pacify the more gullible vocal players (the ones who are inclined to praise PP over doing things they should have done a year ago, for example).

>>54879074
What?

>>54879126
see
>>54879086

>>54878953
>Malakov's issues are basically broken down in that he's doing what Irusk1 does, just worse (except for the being shot to death)

Not really at all. Its more like the Opposite of Irusk 1+2.

Irusk 1/2 want infantry with maybe a jack or two (If its V1 or V2), whilst Malakov wants allot of Jacks and some Infantry.

His Kit is very universal and his feat actually has some combo with it. In case you don't to want to use it defensively, combine it with the Viel of mists to make for Acrobatic Warjacks.
He's really cool and has a unique playstyle all about being a disorienting dick. You have to allw his jacks and infantry to work together for maximum effect.

Also I recomend Demolishers from the future for blast protection.

>>54879099
Um. No. Not at all. Lots of people are invested in making shit that was bad tight and sweet in-faction.
Really quite allot of stuff was really shaped in according to feedback.

PP is pretty difficult in certain directions of what they want, but playtesting definitely shaped the stuff they have done

>>54879151
A jack caster without any ways to make jacks faster isn't worth much, especially in the same market as powerhouses like Harkevich, Karchev or even Butcher3.

>>54879191
>*without any ways to make ALL YOUR jacks faster

Escort is a good spell, but nowhere near enough to support a 5+ battlegroup. Especially because hot-swapping upkeeps with him eats too much focus.

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>>54879210
Uhh wait, I am actually just really stupid.

What spell did I confuse escort with? Superiority? Sidekick?

>>54879191
>>54879210
>>54879236
Uh yeah. He can make all his jacks fast for 1 focus.

Other neat stuff is he can make a psuedo cloudwall like Harkevitch by giving reposition to a Kodiak and then Viel of Misting.

Point is I think he has more tricks and more things to do then just Harkevitch. And I think his feat is better 90% of the time.

>>54879186
>playtesting definitely shaped the stuff they have done
Like the Mk3 release :^)

>>54879282
Malakov's battle plans are mediocre (especially in jack heavy). Walking out of melee is pretty meaningless if your opponent can just bully you out of scenario and the most important thing you overlook are the free charges (which is a damage fixer, another thing Malakov lacks). Malakov feat also just doesn't do anything against shooting.

Excluding Sucker, 15/16 is a lot easier to kill than 16/18. Which is tricky, because Malakov has to play more forward than Harkevich (Hark needs to be 12" away from his battlegroup,

>Other neat stuff is he can make a psuedo cloudwall like Harkevitch by giving reposition to a Kodiak and then Viel of Misting.
The idea behind Harkevich clouds is to make 12" of clouds with three kodiaks, not 8" with two (which is also a focus trap btw). Repo 3" for free is also just way better on your entire army, rather than one model/unit)

And never underestimate Jumpstart as a utility spell. Jumpstart makes it very hard to flank you in a meaningful way at any time and the threat to use a fully loaded jack which was sitting on it's ass a few moments ago to clobb is godlike.

>>54879599
>*because Malakov has to play more forward than Harkevich (Hark needs to be 12" away from his battlegroup for all benefits, while just bordering on 12 with Malakov potentially makes Veil placements awkward)

Got there

>>54879326
Jesus you gotta be annoying. Constantly shifting goalposts.
Yes MKIII did not get a public playtest, so so much shit was not sorted out.

>>54879599
Honestly Im just seeing different advantages and disadvantages then you. I think Malakov is pretty insanely tough and I have had better luck with him then Harkevitch in terms of survival. If you think otherwise I think then it must come down to how we play as individuals.

>>54879186
You can state that as fact if you like, but I don't think the evidence agrees with you. It doesn't look like a lot of people to me, when checking out the CID forum. I see the same set of vocal users that used to be bleating on PP's main forum 24 hours a day. And I regularly see changes that are too big to be based on feedback within one week.
I'm pretty sure most of the CID users are armchair design experts, like the idiot lormahordes mod who thinks he can errata the whole game by himself without understanding the basic rules.

>>54880414
>the idiot lormahordes mod who thinks he can errata the whole game by himself without understanding the basic rules.
What's this now?

>>54880414
>the idiot lormahordes mod who thinks he can errata the whole game by himself without understanding the basic rules.

But that's like the entirety of Lormahordes. That's the point of Lormahordes, it's a containment board for all the shitty people that made PP's old forum such a gong show.

List suggestions for a Journeyman Escalation League list for Retribution, using the Mk3 battle box -
go!

>>54882318

What are the point values?

>>54842501
nice reddit repost

>>54877844
>Id say Zerkova 2 has the weakest game.
Damn, I just got tabled by a Z2 list a couple weeks ago. I must be even worse than I thought.

>>54878276
>don't even think you are scaring any Kreoss player. They will just shake their bell once before knocking you flat on your ass.
That's ludicrous. In that matchup, Kreoss uses his feat to hit you early, for pacing and attrition, every single day of the week. No knockdown is a self-upkeep. Against any competent Kozlov player, Kreoss has to get personally into the middle of your battle line to tag him with a purify. That's an all-chips-in assassination commitment, midway through a turn (since he needs to open a lane), and against a fairly resilient caster. The only way you ever see that happen is in a late game do-or-die situation for the menoth player, where he has held his feat for some reason... so basically never.

>>54878953
>Malakov's feat is super cool (and probably super tilting to see in action)
So you haven't actually played him then? So you're talking out your ass.

>>54885219
http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/tournaments/search/s:Malakov%202

Hello friend :)

>>54881607
But Lormahordes is such a great place for reasonable discourse. Why just now I learned that the new GenCon pinup is going to lead to the fall of Western Civilization because some people's kids will see it and know that people like pretty ladies.

ConflictAnon, someone on Facecuck is saying Disciples of Agony isn't working anymore.

>>54877844
>Id say Zerkova 2 has the weakest game

Back in my mk2 day z2 would assasinate from a mile away with node assassins or leaf blower the table.

I take it she doesn't do this anymore?

>>54885899
Lormahordes taught me that Makeda3's Vortex of Destruction should apply to everything in her control range, not melee range.

>>54886126
Truly a magical place.

>>54885787
I wasn't commenting on Malakov's actual competitive performance, just pointing out the inherent stupidity of trying to meaningfully comment on a caster with whom you have no direct table experience. You need 5-10 games with a new caster to make even a preliminary assessment, and probably more like 50 or a 100 to say you have anything like a complete picture.

Having had an ear to the competitive meta and the release / review / commentary / doom cycle of this game for over a decade, I can promise you, you can not accurately judge a piece's power from just reading the card and dojoing. There are too many variables in the boardstate, interactions with the list, the opponent's list, the broader meta, etc for a brain to keep track of. Guys who spend their entire year attending national and international events can't do it. Even the guys who've routinely been making top placement at big events for years and play every day of the week can't do it reliably. They make educated guesses (probably a bit better than you or I), but they're still wrong a significant portion of the time.

>>54886064
The only thing that's really changed for Zerkova2 is that greylord cav are now always FA2. You haven't seen it exploited up until now because of all the heavy spam making it somewhat worthless. But if the various theme lists cause the balance to shift back toward infantry, you can bet you'll see the boosted spray queen make a resurgence.

>>54881607
>it's a containment board for all the shitty people that made PP's old forum such a gong show.
Yeah, unfortunately it's kinda become that, though I had some slightly-higher hopes for it initially. Thing with the old PP forums was it was (like so many forums) a case of a few bad apples. You had a decent sized population of newer inexperienced players who were willing to listen and learn, a pretty substantial population of experienced players with whom you could have a well reasoned and researched discussion, and of course your usual minority of trolls floating around. All well and good.

But then for some reason you also had this group of people who, while not mean spirited, would jump into every other (or every single, in some cases) thread and just jam it up with random spitballing and speculation despite obviously having little or no experience with the models in question. I think some of them might have been posting tens of times for every hour of actual tabletop experience they had, judging by some of the content. Some of them had like 10K posts in just a couple years. It doesn't even make sense.

>>54887211
Don't forget the stupid shit like having a 150+ page thread about absolutely nothing glued to the top of the Khador board.

>>54887523
Which I now see not only has a follow-up thread on Lormahordes but that thread is in fact pinned by a mod. Fantastic.

>>54887523
>>54888983
Holy shit, when you said "absolutely nothing" you weren't kidding

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soon

>>54886016
It's still working -- you have to pick the caster first, though.

I'm going to fix that at some point, though, because it's not particularly intuitive and only there as a leftover from Mk2 themes which were caster-specific.

Making a faction switch to Circle, what are some good casters to learn the faction with? Staple models/units?

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-08-15-2017
new theme, it's EVERYTHING in mercenaries

>>54893090
well, everything besides cephalyx

>>54893381
Oh yeah, I forgot they weren't a mini-faction and are technically mercs

>>54893090
Probably the only way to fix mercs.

... If that's even enough...

>>54893090
Why do something like this when POTBC still don't have a theme?

>>54893090
20 free points just for playing mercs? why the hell not? #ThemeMachine

>>54893090
Starting to wonder if open listbuilding isn't going to just get outright banned at some point. Why bother with something like this otherwise? If they actually wanted mercs to have themes, they'd recreate the old contracts.

>>54893602
Why is this game still even alive?

>>54895893

because it's fun to some people what the fuck kinda question is that

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I'm sorry but this Grymkin shit is a major 'game has jumped the shark' for me

>>54896648
I hate how hamfistedly """witty""" their lore is (everything rhymes badly and/or is written wrong, FEEL THAT NUANCE) and a good half of their models look like they belong in a different universe DEEPEST LORE, but I least I get to murder them while the bandwagoners sort out how they work on the table.

>>54896648
I don't really understand what their thing is supposed to be.
They punish bad horses?

>>54896838
They're gremlins, their job is to annoy people.
In this case they do it by hurling themselves around Flintstones-style with enough force to puncture heavy armor.

I like a fair amount of Grymkin stuff and the lore for the Heretic and Witch's reason for summoning them are pretty cool. But then they have stuff like the Child who was thrown in to hell for... Being a child? Or the Neigh Slayers who I actually like the sculpt and rules of but have absolutely no explanation in the fiction, they just are.

There are some cool ideas in there; Hollowmen are a really cool idea, so are Murder Crows. Longfellow, Glimmer Imps, and Trapperkin are all pretty interesting concepts for RPG villains. Even Piggybacks are a solid concept with a weird execution. But too many of the ideas (Child, Neigh Slayers, Mad Caps, etc) just feel shoved in either because someone liked the idea or they just needed something to fill slots.

And that's a shame because there are good ideas at the core of the faction. I really like the idea that the Witch is willing to release this lesser horror to buy herself time to deal with the Infernals. And mechanically the faction is very well designed, partially thanks to CID. Their corpse-passing mechanics are really cool and the Arcana are a great teist on feats.

I'm probably gonna start a small force for Company of Iron but I'm just gonna fluff them as the Old Witches minions and make everything crow-themed.

Grymkin are a mix of really cool and really gay. The book is really cool and really gay. The models are really cool and really gay. They are kind of like Trollkin in that you can field an all serious looking army, or an all goofy looking army.

>>54899655
>They are kind of like Trollkin in that you can field an all serious looking army, or an all goofy looking army.
I approve of this assessment.