What is the appeal of Low Fantasy?

Personally, I'm just tired of caster superiority.

>>54238766
>Low fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction, set in a fictional but rational world, as opposed to high fantasy stories, which take place in a fictional world with its own set of rules and physical laws

From Wikipedia. More realistic stories can be enjoyable. You've used ASOIAF as an example. ASOIAF is good because it's a heavily detailed world with a deep history and interaction between characters. It doesn't rely on high fantasy tropes to be good.

>>54238766
>why do people like this thing I will generalize incorrectly that I do not like?

Go fuck yourself kid.

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>>54238766
>Calls Game of Thrones an edgy, grimdark low fantasy
>OP pic depicts Robert Baratheon fighting prince Rhaegar Targaryen
>Is titled "High fantasy"
Huh. Really took my noggin' joggin'

>>54238816
>It doesn't rely on high fantasy tropes to be good.
Actually, it does, when you really think about it. Take Daenerys out of context, for example. An evil overlord invading the kingdom with an army of dragons, foreign mercenaries, savages and strange eunuchs. Her coat of arms is a red dragon on a black field, and her words are "Fire and blood". She even has Tyrion - an ugly, malformed, constantly scheming henchman. He's a dwarf instead of a hunchback, but you get the idea.
Now, we, the readers, know that Daenerys is actually a noble, if misguided, soul, but Quentyn's chapters give us a pretty clear idea of how literally everyone in the story views her - with utter terror.

>>54238766
>What is the appeal of High Fantasy?
>I don't really get it, most of the time high fantasy settings are just medieval fantasy settings with more stuff muh 'magic ain't gotta explain shit' memes.
Copypasta copypasta, Etc, etc, etc. you get the idea.

I'm bored so here's your (You)

>>54238766
Low fantasy is for when you want to tell medieval story, but don't want to pick up history book or wikipedia. It's nice little literary loophole for being lazy.

>>54238766
Autism mostly

>>54238977
I mean, I'm not against it per se but most of the time they don't even really do that.

>>54238918
Don't forget that Euron Greyjoy has basically turned into Sauron with the ironborn as his orcs.
He's even borrowing the eye symbol.

>>54239016
OP or the "low fantasy memers"?

>>54239052
You, probably

>>54239066
Me in what context and role?

>>54238766
For me, a good setting has to make sense. The geography, ecology, the way society works. It doesn't have be 'realistic', just have some depth into it. Being 'low fantasy', 'grimdark', 'gritty' or whatever labels you want to put is completely irrelevant. So, yeah, Westeros is a decent setting, Forgotten Realms is not.

>>54239089
Always and in your normal role as bottom

>>54239103
Yeah but not because Westeros is LF and Forgotten Realms isn't bad because is it high fantasy.

>>54238766
What is the appeal of High Fantasy?
I don't really get it, most of the time high fantasy settings are just medieval fantasy with elves and orcs everywhere and farting fireballs
I like some settings like that but it's always because they have some sort of consistency and grounded measure of reality and not because of the high fantasy
Is that a meme caused by Lords of the Ring and a false perception that there are too low fantasy settings and making a high fantasy setting is somehow enough to be good and original?
Like the fairy-gay manchild memers unironically thinking you can't have fun if it's not filled with magical fairy dust and unicorns all the time and you must be child to ever dare disagree with them?

Hey dipshit, has it ever occurred to you that those settings are fun?

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>>54238766
>Is that a meme caused by Games of the Throne and a false perception that there are too high fantasy settings and making a low fantasy setting is somehow enough to be good and original?
>Like the Grim Dark memers unironically thinking you are mature if you are bleak and edgy all the time and you must be a child to ever dare to disagree with them?

100% this. The entire 'low' fantasy fanbase is literally soaked in memes, buzzwords and tryhardism.

Literally the only way to enjoy grimdark is the pure edgelord route. Trying to enjoy it as over the top fun that isn't meant to be taken seriously is pretentious bullshit for fedora-wearing fatasses with ''''''ironic'''''' neckbeards. Don't let any faggot hear tell you otherwise. Similarly, 'low' fantasy is really a codeword for 'muh historical accuracy' so you can expect a whole lot of autistic screeching about how halberds and billhooks are the god-tier weapons and swords are completely useless.

Your right that Gayme of Groans is a big influence too. It was a popular show that reached the mainstream, and so the virginbeards leapt on it as a way to unite with the normalfags. Every time you see some shithead posting on /tg/ about how "muh new blood in the hobby is saving pnp" and railing against some anon for sayng casuals are bad, dollars to donuts this is a GoT fan. Their cancer and should be redirected to their homeboard at >>>/tv/, most of them probably only came here from making a typo in the address bar anyway.

>>54238918
>foreign mercenaries
>savages
>eunuchs

>high fantasy tropes

Confirmed for retarded.

>>54239184
For someone complaining about buzzwords, you sure use a lot of them.

>>54239176
>they have some sort of consistency and grounded measure of reality
Not the same as flavor though.
>Like the fairy-gay manchild memers unironically thinking you can't have fun if it's not filled with magical fairy dust and unicorns all the time and you must be child to ever dare disagree with them?
Grimdarkers are generally the ones doing that though.
Also ad hominem while I had the decency of not really insulting those I critized.
>Hey dipshit, has it ever occurred to you that those settings are fun?
Care to explain why? It's the point of that thread after all.

>>54239197
What is high fantasy, in your opinion?

>>54239220

Found the GoTfag.

>>>/tv/

>>54239235

Not him, but it typically has two common meanings.

The first, and technically correct one, is a fantastical setting that isn't the real world.

The second refers to narrative type: a heroic epic pitting the forces of good against evil would be high fantasy. A gritty story about the criminal underworld in a fantasy city's slum quarter would be low fantasy.

You'll also sometimes see 'high fantasy' used as a broader version of 'high magic', i.e a setting stuffed to the gills with wizards, elves, dragons, demons, and whatever else. A setting that is high in fantastical elements, like burgers are high in fat. I think this comes from people not knowing the original meaning, and taking a best guess stab at it.

>>54239235
>Magic being a thing that much of the world's commonfolk has seen cast with their own eyes or if magic can be treated as it's own brand of setting physics.

>Much of the geography/astronomy/ecology not conforming to realism. I.e continents that could not show up naturally, Not-Mordor being a place, acknowledging the existence of afterlifes/elemental planes/alt universes that people can travel/summon to/from.

>Magic doomsdays that heroes prevent.(and x100 if the story has more then one magic doomsday happens or is stopped.)

>While not an utterly clear indicator the a setting's 'highness' the number of distinct sapient races interacting with each other in the story is a decent measuring stick.

>>54239537
You do know, that Lord of the Rings doesn't qualify your criteria, right? And there's no higher fantasy than that.

>>54239564
>3/4 criterion filled
>doesn't qualify

>>54239564
>Lord of the Rings
>There's no higher fantasy than that.
That's really not true though.
Many fantasy settings have far more fantasy elements and much more magic.

>>54239365
So Harry Potter would be Low by the first, but High by the second
Angel (the TV show) would be Low by both

>>54239564
>Magic being common/is quantifiable.

No.

>Irrational geography/magic planes.

Yes on both.

>Magic doomsday.

Yes. Sauron gets his ring.

>Lots of races.

Somewhere in this middle. which is fair considering lotr is pretty tame overall.

>>54239588

Three quarters high fantasy isn't high fantasy, and it's certainly not the ur-example like LotR is.

Stop homebrewing your own meanings for words, anon.

>>54239678
Three quarters of being completely autistic still makes you autistic anon

>>54239678
Lotr is something that dangles on the edge of not-high fantasty but it still gets a 3/4 on the criteria.

>>54239668

>>54239678
Not wanting to do that "LOTR is low fantasy" meme but LotR is not really "the ur-example" of standard high fantasy.

>>54238816
>fictional but rational world
>fictional world with its own set of rules and physical laws
>distinct
That people insist a thing can only be self-consistent if it follows real-life laws of physics is my only problem with low fantasy.

>>54239715
>implying these criteria are any good when half of these are almost criticism.

>>54239537
I can play this game too. Let's take A Song of Ice and Fire.
>Magic being a thing
Magic is a thing, and it's becoming more and more common with each book. It's not everywhere, but neither it is in LoTR.
>Geography
Years long winters are confirmed to happen because of magic. Essos and Westeros are split, because Children of the Forest hit it with a magical nuke. Valyria is worse than Chernobyl because of another magical nuke.
>Magic doomsdays
The Long Night - an apocalyptic eternal winter that will happen once the Others defeat men and conquer the world.
There's also Euron Greyjoy's ambition of becoming a god and drowning the world in blood. He's halfway there.
In the background, the most advanced civilization in the world was destroyed by the Doom of Valyria.
>Distinct sapient races
There are humans, children of the forest, the Others, Brindled Men, giants and dragons. Crannogmen and Wildlings are technically human, but are distinct enough to qualify. Grumkins and snarks were not spotted yet, but since every other legend Old Nan has told turned out to be literally true, they probably exist.

Please stop using the terms high fantasy and low fantasy incorrectly when what you mean is high magic and low magic. It is giving me an AneUr[T]ISM. I'm serious tho, stop it, or I guess just be fine with taking a chainsaw to semantics

>>54239691
>i was wrong, b-but your autistic

Thanks for conceding the argument. :)

>>54238826
Prolly just missnamed my dude.

>17 posters
>buzzwording badwrongfun
>none of them actually play games
You know it tru.

Because it works better in fiction than the mythical "hard scifi"

>>54238766

It's kind of like the low-level adventures where your characters die off over realistic, if slightly unfair, deaths. Easier to believe, less bullshit.

>>54238766
After running around with elves and dwarves for years you realize that they don't add anything to the story and that 90% of them are all the same character in disguise, so if you do away with that and everyone is a human, people have to think of realistic and interesting character concepts. Same thing with magic. If every character backstory/campaign plot is "an NPC wizard threw some spells around and made people sad" then it becomes equally lame.

>>54238766
>What's the appeal of low fantasy
lolidunno, read Dragonlance, and the once prevalent detail of magic casters being part of a uniqur role-playing aspect in RPGs that took up most of what the were made of to balance out their role in an adventuring party.

>>54240668
If I see the word "badwrongfun" one more time I'm going to kill someone. This has got to be the stupidest shit tumblr has brought to this site, and the list is long. Are you seriously not aware of how much of a cocksucking faggot you sound like?

>>54242773
Badwrongfun.

kys when you're done being triggered

>>54242859
Hope you get an aneurysm from sitting on your ass all day being a retard on the internet.

>>54242890
u2bb

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>>54238766
>t.amerifat

>>54238766
Some people are history wanks. Some just enjoy being restricted, like imagination bondage.

>>54243203
>Some just enjoy being restricted, like imagination bondage.
>implying generic high-fantasy is good example of imagination

>>54243300
>implying generic low-fantasy is good example of imagination.

>>54243474
Yep. Because low-fantasy have much more potential lyric and charm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoBW1VLJzds

>>54243602
Not inherently so.

>>54238766
low magic settings are for histfags that don't actually know history

the absence or low presence of magic also helps not triggering autism

but a good low magic setting also ends up being heavily worldbuilt, which may be what people look for in a setting to begin with

>>54244875
What prevent you to make a worldbuilt high fantasy setting?

>>54245019
>What prevent you to make a worldbuilt high fantasy setting?
Because it will look like another clone of DnD/Warcraft?

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>>54245049
Look at him and laugh.

>>54245116
Excuse me, but what this picture supposed to mean?

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>>54245246
Maybe you should read high fantasy and find out.

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>>54238766
The lack of "lolmagic" explanation for everything forces players to use character and action rather than gear to distinguish themselves

The lack of "lolmagic" forces the DM to come up with better stories aside from "demon invasion" or "magical plague"

>>54245374
>The lack of "lolmagic" forces the DM to come up with better stories aside from "demon invasion" or "magical plague"
But what about Warhammer Fantasy?

>>54245407
That is an exception
They chose to have a deep story.
Low fantasy settings are forced to have a deeper story because you have to have a reason for people to do things.
If you have monsters, there must be a reason for them to be there.

I wrote a low fantasy setting with my friends and we made pages upon pages of lore just to explain why there are bandits and raiders in the woods. Then we had to write about their culture, morphology, etc.

>>54245019
nothing in theory
but in practice high magic often replaces worldbuilding with "magic did it"

one could argue that the more you move away from history the less your arrangement of things will feel as good

in the end I think it's mostly purposes that dictate the decision: high magic is fertile ground for strong images; low magic seems the decision of people looking for a story

maybe that's why such a visuals dominated market like the east developed more towards the high magic

>>54238816
songof ice and fire is high fantasy you dumb pile of shit

>>54245489
ASOIAF is a high fantasy world that turned into a low fantasy one for umpteen years and is slowly turning back into a high fantasy one, much to the consternation of every fucker involved.

>>54245433
>I wrote a low fantasy setting with my friends and we made pages upon pages of lore just to explain why there are bandits and raiders in the woods. Then we had to write about their culture, morphology, etc.
Your group's personal autism is no indicator of general quality.

>If you have monsters, there must be a reason for them to be there.
No there fucking doesn't. "There are monsters in the woods. Why are they there? To eat your dumb ass. Don't ask questions, just stay out of the fucking woods you pillock." is a perfectly LF explanation.

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>>54245471
>Implying there is nothing visually stimulating about hundreds of smiths hammering together iron suits and hot steel blades
>Thousands of soldiers putting on armor still steaming from the quench to defend their farms and homes, determination in their eyes

Just because it isn't a technicolor rainbow of people screaming and world ending destructo energy beams doesn't mean its not visually stimulating

>>54238795

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

>>54245512
>There are monsters in the woods. Why are they there? To eat your dumb ass. Don't ask questions, just stay out of the fucking woods you pillock." is a perfectly LF explanation.
What do the monsters eat?
What is the ecosystem like?
Are there different strains?
How aggressive are they?
Can we dig out their pheromone glands and use them as decoys?
Logical weaknesses? Strengths?

That's what I mean. Too frequently it boils down to "lol they are magic" and its just lazy writing.

>>54245512
>Your group's personal autism is no indicator of general quality.
http://immortalpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rakkaan_tribes
You be the judge then

>>54245575
Why would you have any of that prepared ahead of time on the off chance your players want to go hunting them?

If they go for them, come up with the answers on the fly and work with it. And don't just hand that shit out - if they want to know, have them find out. If they ask peasants, they're just going to get fucking rumours and hearsay.

>>54245631
>If they ask peasants, they're just going to get fucking rumours and hearsay.
Well yes, why would some random carpenter or farmer know the biology of wood monsters?
Rangers? They would know their behavior and how to kill them or avoid them
Biomancers? They are the ones who would know. Good luck finding one outside of a larger civilized area

>>54239840
ASOIAF is definitely playing about with the high/low magic thing (to side step an extended "what is high fantasy" debate). Magic is coming back to the world; the setting is getting more magical as time advances (and had ages of high magic in the past).

Without getting into low magic/high magic vs low fantasy/high fantasy, ASOIAF isn't a clean example of "low magic", it's a set of books which plays around with the dichotomy.

>>54245266
And your point is?
Also, your first picture fits low fantasy pretty good

>>54245575
>What do the monsters eat?
You
>What is the ecosystem like?
Woods
>Are there different strains?
No
>How aggressive are they?
Powered by pure hatred
>Can we dig out their pheromone glands and use them as decoys?
They don't have them
>Logical weaknesses?
Being stabbed
>Strengths?
Stabbing you

Look, shit worldbuilding knows no genre.

>>54245611
It's OK. Not loin-stirring, but it's not hideously dull either.

>>54245542
>Implying there is nothing visually stimulating
I didn't say that

I'm saying that technicolor world ending mumbo jumbo is MORE visually attractive (note that this isn't an indication of quality) because direct and immediate

even in your own example to sell me the awe of realism you had to exaggerate numbers and timeframes, something very cinematic, while what I'd consider natively low magic is the part about the guys motivations and determination, something I'd consider easier to evoke through words than an image, and that to be appreciated requires a developed emphatical sense, a more matured reading tool than the childish attraction to hyperboles.

>>54245836
>I'm saying that technicolor world ending mumbo jumbo is MORE visually attractive
>source my ass
Also, best fantasy battles use very-very small part of high-magic stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tgi-j56ueU
I hate this series, especially DeusExMachina ending and Harrington magical cloak, but cavalry fight was perfect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToOIvD5mlow

>>54238795
>>54245566

...Low fantasy is THE breeding ground for caster supremacy. Giving martial characters heavy restraints and limits based on "realism" but magic users get magic is far more an issue in people who play low fantasy.

>>54238766
So you can fight a dragon with clever riddle game, roguish traps, knights bearing lances, rangers with cursed arrows instead of asking divination, alteration, evocation and conjuration wizards to handwave it all.

>>54239235
Magicmarts, a cleric healer in every hamlet and a wizard in every city.

>>54245927
On if you allow High fantasy casters in a Low fantasy game.

>>54245745
>It's OK. Not loin-stirring, but it's not hideously dull either.
Thank you, any suggestions?

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>>54245611
>In one recorded instance, a place of worship for Rakkaan was discovered to have an entire floor based mosaic depicting Rakkaan warriors savaging each other made entirely out of human teeth of various size and coloration.
>Mosaic
>Made out of teeth
Jesus

>>54245836
>even in your own example to sell me the awe of realism you had to exaggerate numbers and timeframes
Thousands of soldiers is an exaggeration? Excuse yourself very fucking much because historically speaking ancient humans have fought with armies exceeding a million armed men trying to kill each other.

You strike me as the kind of person who sits in a quiet room all day watching "Dragon ball Z" thinking that real life is boring

Sorry, perhaps if I said
>Thousands of SUPER SOLDIERS FIGHTING OTHER MAGIC SUPER SOLDIERS
you would be a bit happier with that, damn their motivations

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I just like low-power games.

>>54246059
>historically speaking ancient humans have fought with armies exceeding a million armed men trying to kill each other.
>global population estimate for 1000 AD is 250-350 million
I don't think I believe you.

>>54246088
>What is the Persian Empire
>What is Thermopylae
Even if you look at the historically adjusted number, the scale of that battle alone was in the six figure range

>>54246088
>Hi I'm an anon who thinks that every battle in history was like four dudes wearing animal skins and nothing cool every happens without magic or superpowers
fucking millenials man

>>54246151
>>What is Thermopylae
67,000-307,000 is not even close to a million.

>>54246187
>Completely ignoring the second point
Again, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of men fighting and dying for something they believe in, forced to fight by uncaring lords, doing it for a paycheck so they can feed their bright eyed child that might go farther than they ever could in life.

None of this is stirring to you. None of it evokes any sort of action.
I bet you get a stiffie whenever your animu says "This isn't even 2% of my power! I can still go super duper super level mega 4!"

>>54246389
>>54246187
TIME TO USE MY NEW NINJA WIZARD TECHNO TECHNIQUE! TAKE THE SUPER MEGA ULTRA MAGIC PSYCHICK BALL THAT CAN TOTALLY DESTROY 12 GALAXIES YOU GUIZE!!!

That doing anything for you?

Well what do you know, it looks like >>54244875 was right.

>>54246059
>Thousands of soldiers is an exaggeration?
hundreds of smiths sound like one

>>54245927
> magic users get magic
> magic users

Do you see where you fucked up?

>>54246389
>the most generic of heartstring-tugging attempts combined with BIG NUMBER
Just as boring and shitty as your anime strawman, really.

>>54238766
Most people play D&D and some of those eventually get bored of playing super human characters in a world full to the brim with 100s of different fantasy races and endless magic and want to play something more down to earth , grounded and relatable. Hence low fantasy settings.

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>>54238826
I forgot that George R. R. Martin Wrote Stannis as a Dark Lord

The real answer is just personal preference. Both high and low fantasy as just as capable of being skin deep.

Personally Im a fan of science fantasy with a touch of magic.

>giving a shit about genre
>not just making an interesting setting for you and the lads

>>54238918
>Daenerys
>good

the high fantasy daenerys shit is the one thing that makes asoiaf terrible

So much pointless dick waving in this thread.

>>54246726
>>54246712
>>54246613
Now you guys I like.

>>54246399
>>54246389
>I AM SILLY!
Falseflaggers I swear

First:
High Fantasy: Fantasy setting with high levels of magic or fantastical elements with aspects of grand adventure.
Low Fantasy: Fantasy setting with low levels of magic or fantastical elements with aspects of grounded struggle.

Not saying those are correct definitions, just what came to mind when I tried to define the terms.

>>54238766
>What is the appeal of Low Fantasy?
I suspect the down-to-earth quality of the conflicts and struggles.
Also, people could just like it.
I have seen Groundhog's Day many times more than I have seen Clockwork Orange, but I'm not gonna claim it's a better film.

>Is X a meme caused by Games of the Throne?
Not in anyone sensible.

>Is X a meme caused by a false perception that there are too Y settings and making an X setting is somehow enough to be good and original?
Regrettably, resisting perceived convention in a futile attempt to achieve originality has been going on forever.

>Like the Grim Dark memers unironically thinking you are mature if you are bleak and edgy all the time and you must be a child to ever dare to disagree with them?
That would be a combination of not being sensible and falling into the above "defying convention" trap mentioned above, yes.

But just because fools flock to a genre for foolish reasons, that says nothing about the genre itself.
Low fantasy can be damn good.

>>54246623
No, he wrote Stannis as an uncomfortably rigid man who's principles are so unbending that they harm his cause.
He wrote EURON as a dark lord, considering he is literally a power-mad sorcerer rapist psychopath commanding a culture of bloodthirsty idiots who refuse for religious and tradition reasons to bother developing a sophisticated economy and who now currently wears spiky black magical armor and flies the flag of a crimson eye.

Euron Greyjoy is basically Sauron now, and the ironborn are his orcs.

>>54246963
What the shit? Since when?

>>54245927
Casters in low fantasy WHEN present, are only able to do subtle shit, instead of just pooping missiles.

>>54246969
It's one of the preview chapters for Winds of Winter.
His plan is even a crazy nonsensical fantasy dark lord plan; he wants to go around killing as many people as possible because he can get away with it.
Euron Greyjoy exceeds the level of crazy of every other crazy A Song of Ice and Fire character by several orders of magnitude at this point.

>>54238918
>army of dragons
You mean 3 dragons that barely do anything.

>>54246995
Ironically if you read the setting book, just HAVING the dragons isn't enough; they're powerful but Egg the C used them sparingly because despite how tough they were they weren't immortal and one stray shot with an arrow kills the rider and renders the dragon useless since they can only bond with one rider in their lifetimes in nearly 99% of all cases.
He relied far more on conventional tactics, and even during the Battle of the Burning Plains his strategy was significantly more complex then simply "fly overhead and burn everything from above" and involved a lot of strategic positioning of his armies beforehand.

Basically Dany has no idea what she's doing with these things because there was actually a lot more to using the dragons then just having them; it's why she'll need Tyrion in the novels, he's actually got the knowledge thanks to having read up on all of it.

>>54239135
>Forgotten Realms isn't bad because is it high fantasy
Wrong. Forgotten Realms is bad exactly because it is too much HF.

>>54247026
You don't actually know the setting very well, otherwise you'd know it's problems are far more annoying and have nothing to do with that at all.
Seriously, when you know a setting only from internet memes just admit it. It's okay to just not know shit, you are literally born knowing fuck-all and you will be learning new things for the rest of your natural life span unless you are completely retarded.

>>54247079
Dude, I grew up reading FR stuff when internet wasn't even accessible. Stop assuming shit.

>>54247094
>I grew up reading FR stuff when internet wasn't even accessible.
Then it's pretty shameful you've got such a bad feel for it.

>>54247094
So then it's a taste thing rather then it's numerous technical and marketing mistakes? My mistake.
Most kids these days know FR from shit they hear on the internet and are sort of like those guys who "know all about" Lord of the Rings from Wikipedia and online shit because they've never picked up a book in their life if it wasn't for school.

>>54247103
I'm he doesn't like it as a matter of preference and personal taste, actually.
Kinda like not liking action movies over drama films or whatever, you know? It's not wrong, just not to your taste.

>>54238766
If the party is in actual danger the things they pull of are more heroic and feel like the party have deserved the acomplishment. If magic is less present it becomes more mystical and magical.
Those two things are what draw most people to fantasy in the first place, and low fantasy let's you enjoy/appriciate them in another way than in a game where everyone is a superhero.
I enjoy both but jesus christ the contents of your post makes me think you had no intention of finding out your own question and just wanted to bitch about something you don't like.

>>54238766
>What is the appeal of Low Fantasy?
it is more plausible

What about stuff like flash gordon?

The setting is weird and wonderful but the guy is just a guy.

>>54246088
China had some pretty big armies.

>>54238766
First you need to define high and low fantasy in the first place to really answer this. Which is pretty much nigh impossible in itself.

as long as you're not trying to save the world, i'm fine with high and low!

comfy slice-of-life or silly picaresques are where it's at

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People like more historical stuff without being bound by the events that actually happened, it's more or less the next step away from alt-history on the scale. That and you can call the sense of realism edgy or autistic all you like but it's inherently no more autistic to like people living in a feudal system dying of pox than it is to like elves farting magic out of their assess.

Sometimes it's just nice to get away from the high fantasy tropes of magic and the timeless good vs evil struggle, yet an actual historical setting is to cumbersome because then it gets a bit too real and becomes restrictive.

Personally I just like the more realistic behaviors of stuff in a low fantasy setting because I'm a bit of a history fag and so I'm going to like things that appeal more to my interests, yet I don't want to kick fantasy out of a window entirely because monsters and magic can be thrilling in a setting where they're far less common. Ultimately the quality of a setting comes down to the skill of the writer and the preference of the person enjoying the work itself. It's not super hard to understand.

TL;DR Maybe I like less mayo on my burger and from my stand point you down yours in it and it's gross.

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>>54246969
First of all, read this chapter from The Winds of Winter.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TOzYKnHHFS87I2B1Mx1xaF0zoR5pjdl5bLh9Fzi6Dts/edit

And now that you know what Euron actually is, I advise you to reread ironborn chapters concerning the Kingsmoot.

>>54243067
>/tg/ will unironically defend right side
Son, I'am dissaopinted

>>54247940
>People like more historical stuff without being bound by the events that actually happened, it's more or less the next step away from alt-history on the scale.

This. Fantasy just means stuff that is not real, it doesn't have to be about weird flashy stuff.

>>54239103
>Westeros is a decent setting

Westeros is shit.

>>54251718
Explain why without using words "tryhard", "fat man" and "England".

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>>54238766
>Like the Grim Dark memers unironically thinking you are mature if you are bleak and edgy all the time and you must be a child to ever dare to disagree with them?
Nope, but real history and real folklore >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DnD

>>54251454
>not falling for the low fantasy meme is defending the right side.

>>54245724
The first picture is of a 300,000-year-old undead neadertal superwarrior and a 100,000-year-old immortal king who gained immortality via blood sacrifice of a continent. This happened when his enemies yanked a god out of space to use as a nuke. The devastation caused several old gods to show up, wrap up said continent in magic, and relocate it to another plane of existence.

I love MBOTF, but it's like fucking DBZ or cosmic Marvel/DC comics in terms of over-the-top power level.

>>54238766
A medieval setting that doesn't have to adhere to real-world history

>>54251731
Scale
The seasons.
Economy is nonsense. Like the gold mines of the Lannister
The religions are very underdeveloped. The Faith is a shallow copy of christianity
Lots of dung age cliches

Culture and language are far too ... samey? Westeros is supposed to be the size of South America. There shoud be far more cultures and languages.

>>54252122

Not the same guy who asked you to explain, but here's my two cents.

>Scale
No arguments there. When doing my ASOIAF RPG, I had to get creative with measurements and how many days it took to get from Point A to B.

>Seasons
For a setting that emphasizes only summer and winter, the books (like World of I&F) sure mention fall and spring a lot. I also liked how in early Season 2, a white raven was brought into the small council, Pycelle said summer's over and winter's here. Everyone seemed to forget that, even the scriptwriters, as no one mentions it ever again.

>Economy is nonsense
Could you elaborate on that one? The currency system was very weird in the Green Ronin RPG. Not using a 1/10/100 scale for copper/silver/gold was hard to wrap my head around.

>Religions are underdeveloped
Yeah that's pretty much spot on. Faith of the 7 is just a paganized version of Christianity, the old gods are just... trees, Drowned God is simple, and the other religions are rather vague as well. I think the Faith does have an actual "bible" but passages aren't mentioned, to my knowledge.

>Culture & Languages are samey
There's Westerosi and then there's Valyrian. The RPG states there's more bastardized versions of Valyrian for each of the Free Cities, but then says if you know base Valyrian you can speak the different branches. Westerosi is just Common, and the Dornish just speak with a little Rhonyish lilt in their voices to make them sound exotic.

I think GRRM wanted to keep things relatively simple in this regard, with Westeros history being "one human group comes in and wipes out the last group" for the most part. Westeros is basically just 4 cultures: Ironborn, Northmen, Dornish, and... the other realms that really aren't distinguishable. I feel like the Vale should have a different culture since they got mountains dividing them from everyone else on the continent.

>>54251972
The first picture is Onrack the Broken and Trull Sengar, not Kallor. Close though, and yeah the power levels in Malazan get pretty silly but the sheer amount of world building and depth to shit is pretty fucking cool.

>>54239293

Oh like you little pissants weren't all about ASoIaF when it was fresh and not on HBO.

>>54247940
This, honestly why do people have to care about what other people prefer?

>>54239184
All you've done is make it obvious to everyone old enough to post on this site that you weren't around before Game of Thrones became a thing.

>>54238766
Ah yes since GOT is on next week the bait threads start up again.

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>>54248332
>reading spoilers for a book

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>>54238766
>fancy elf people
>magic for the sake of sparkly lights
>liking this shit

>>54238766
Because I want to kill an orc with a sword, not a fucking fireball like a cuck?

>game of memes
Game of trash is shit dude, stop watching diarrhea.

>>54238816
>From Wikipedia.
Wikipedia doesn't know shit.

>>54257300
What the memeloving fuck am I watching?

>>54238766
High fantasy it is easier to make philosophical statements with and go deep into psychology and the nature of theology and the functioning of human society.

Low fantasy is mostly for the people who want to roleplay dying of chorea while they fap furiously while discussing the differences in the styles of bread eaten during the middle ages.

>>54258171

Vinegar strokes.

>>54256985
>buttrustled GoTfag.

>>>/tv/

>>54238795
Pretty much this, adventure and dungeon crawling are more fun when the mage's maximum output are low level final fantasy spells. Not outright cosmic manipulation.

>>54258200
Anon is that a kind of middle age food? It sounds rather delicious. What does it taste like?

>>54258259
Honestly for me I like my high fantasy without easy mages or magic. I'm not really sure why people have so many mages in their high fantasy settings.

>>54257795
Dark Souls PvP

>>54257215
>Karl fookin Tanner

High Fantasy and Low Fantasy in /tg/ are usually used to describe the power of Magic in the setting. There are fantasy settings with weak but commonplace magic that aren't really high fantasy. The highest levels of fantasy pretty much replace everything realistic with "muh magics" and for some people the lack of consistency is a turn off. Low fantasy is typically more grounded in reality. They are also usually used to tell different kinds of stories. Low fantasy is usually used for the people that love medieval politics and intrigue. The lack of powerful magic usually results in a setting closer to historical guidelines and that makes it easier and more relate-able for people to write more realistic stories in. High Fantasy is often used to tell totally different kinds of stories, ones closer to the Hero's Journey types.

These aren't hard and fast rules, but they'll usually what you'll see in the fiction. The easiest way to think of it is that magic is essentially technology. The more magic, the more "tech". After a certain point there's very little reason that your magical high fantasy settings would look much different from a modern, or post-modern, or even sci-fi society. Unless your setting explains why everyone doesn't clean their house with Unseen Servants and why armies aren't made up of golems and why cities aren't threatened with Locate City Nukes and why Jimbob doesn't go to work every day at the Fabricator plant or whatever it starts to look really inconsistent. The alternative to magic being commonplace is it being powerful and hoarded, at which point either it's essentially just a low magic setting with cranky immortal wizards in the background or wizards ruling the globe through space and time and dominating (possibly literally) the plebs. There's certainly room there for a story but you're going to need to put more work into the background to achieve consistency than most people care for. Low fantasy is just easier to relate to.

>>54252122
>Culture and language are far too ... samey? Westeros is supposed to be the size of South America. There should be far more cultures and languages.

Russian has no dialects. Size and geography are no guarantee that a dialect will form. In addition, most of the 7 Kingdoms have been controlled by the same cultural authority for the same length of time most of Europe was controlled by the Roman Empire.

>>54239176
>What is the appeal of High Fantasy?
Surrealism and irrationality.
Werewolves can't be killed with anything but a weapon made of silver. The japanese Lich Sister inserts herself into your life and cannot be beaten unless you follow a path of contrived rules as do most asians ghosts, the monkey's paw is an artifact of apparent omnipotence created to let people ruin their own lives through their greed and hubris...
Urban legends, cryptids and folk tales are the best example of high fantasy. It's not about elves and dwarves, it's about defying reality and creating your own with an internal consistency that can be guessed and defeated only by the sharpest wit and not just "lel I cast fireball" or "throw a nuke at it".

>>54252122
There's two languages in south america, and only because no neighboring country cared enough about Brazil to conquer their shit and teach them a civilized language.

>>54258264
Salt, dried squid and virginity.

>>54258327
It's even more notorious when you consider that the DMPC mage in the quintessential high fantasy series, only cast two spells with a notable physical component. One to light pinecones on fire and one to blind the orcs at Helm's Deep.

But no, everyone has to have mages that teleport people into the sun and cast nukes at goblins from the other side of the world.

>>54259034
>Russian has no dialects

It does. They just don't vary from one another as much as in some languages.

>>54259539
>There's two languages in south america

Holy shit, kill yourself.

>>54259627
>It's even more notorious when you consider that the DMPC mage in the quintessential high fantasy series, only cast two spells with a notable physical componen

Gandalf also did that shit with the river at Rivendell. Elrond 'commanded' the river to surge, and Gandalf snowflaked it up by turning the waves into watery horses, and boasted about it to Frodo later. Kinda funny, people think of him as a fire mage but it was the water horses that took out nine Nazgul.

>>54252605
The Vale has those savage mountain guys and it's implied they were there first.

"Wait? Are you japing? Did you just say 'wait'? Prince Rhaegar of House Targaryen. The Prince of Dragonstone. He finally gets on the wrong end of my leal warhammer, and what he says is 'wait'. You know what? I expected more of you. I mean, wait for what? Wait for me to change my mind? Wait for another two or three seconds of life because you are so fucking weak that you just cannot stand to see it end?"

>>54259839
Actually a nice reference for once.
Except we all knew Bobby B probably said something more like
>BLAAAAAAARRGH
when he killed Rhaegar.
A poet he was not.

>>54259839
Dredd was so fucking good. It's literally criminal that we won't get the planned sequels that took us up to Judge Death.

>>54243602
No it doesnt, there is nothing charming about covering everything in grime and shit and making everyone and their mother act like assholes for no reason.

>>54243067
What's wrong with pursuing a stylistic tone that isn't interested in realism like that?

>>54243067
The main difference is that realistic model europe has exotic novelty to the Japanese, but that lacks the same touch to western audiences, we find it boring unless exaggerated

I honestly like Dunk and Egg's adventures more than the main series.

>>54246942
Do we need a fucking alignment chart for tiers of fantasy?

>>54259702
Nobody speaks indio shit fagtron. The only country that sorta kinda cares about their native languages is Mexico and that's North America.
Haiti and Jamaica are Caribbean.

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>>54238766
Something more realistic.

I would play a campaign in a historical setting if I could convince my friends to join and that's as low fantasy as it gets. I find actual history much more interesting than some setting some guy made up. Real life has much more background information and flavor.

Low Fantasy settings I would love to play a campaign in:
>Early Kievan Rus adventurers (11th century?)
>Thirty Years War
>Napoleon's Invasion of Russia
>Russo-Japanese War around the Yalu River
>WW1 - east Africa perhaps?
>Russian Civil War
>WW2 - small team of combatants
>Vietnam
>Soviet-Afghan War
>Chechnya
>Yugoslav War in the 90s
>S.T.A.L.K.E.R. set in the near future.

MY LORDS! Here is what I say to these two kings! Manwe is nothing to me, nor Mandos neither. Why should they rule over me and mine, from some high flung seat on Taniquetil or or some gloomy hall near the western sea? What do they know of jewels or the Silmarils or the craftsmanship of our kin? Even their kind are not ours. Eru take Morgoth too, I’ve had a bellyful of him. Why shouldn’t we rule ourselves again? It was the Servants of Eru that led us into the west, and they have all but slain us! There sits the only king I mean to bow my knee to, m’lords. THE KING OF THE NOLDORIN!

>>54259942
>What's wrong with pursuing a stylistic tone that isn't interested in realism like that?
Nothing if only folklore your country have is Super Hero comics

>>54251837
>muh reality
In other news people hate things that aren't boring

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>>54243067
That Japanese image is completely inaccurate.

>>54260099
What's the matter with superhero comics? As in things that aren't something that can be taken on a case by case basis

>>54260298
His image of Japanese fantasy has come exclusively from Dark Souls

>>54245575
Many of those questions are hard to answer for real animals, and they represent an anachronistic degree of biological knowledge (especially the bit about the pheromones). IIRC, actual medieval knowledge was more like "the fruit of a certain tree produces ducks" or "hedgehogs steal grapes from vineyards by sticking them on their spines."

This is not, of course, saying that you must adhere to actual human history when constructing your fictional setting, but if you decide not to do so, we need to look elsewhere to find the important distinction between high and low fantasy. It sounds like what you want is something closer to "completeness and plausibility in light of known physical rules or principles", but in that case you really might as well be playing science fiction; in essence, you're playing something like medieval-technology-level hard SF.

>>54246081
I like those too, but I can't stand grimdark shit. Where do I go for a fairly cheery low-power-level game? One that's not all torture and genocide and "you don't understand we HAD to rape them all for the GREATER GOOD"?

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>>54238766
>What is the appeal of Low Fantasy?
Mainly so that don't have to deal with the Lolrandumb Wild Mages, Edgy Death Clerics/Necromancers, The Guy that tries to build an army of sex golems, and the Caster Supremacist that hasn't gotten over high school.

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>>54260367
Clearly he hasn't played any other Japanese games.

>>54260298
Final Fantasy doesn't try to be western, it's more eurasian and arabic except for the Sci Fi ones and IX which is very venetian/renaissant styled.

>>54260425
Well that sounds like an issue with players not the setting

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>>54260501

>>54260307
>What's the matter with superhero comics?
Nothing except low quality.

>>54260527
It seems to happen every time someone wants to play a magic character and I don't know why.

>>54260564
Because you've failed to communicate to your players that you don't want them to do that.

>>54260718
Oh no I tell them flat out that it's a really stupid idea, and that playing with you is going to get annoying and boring real fast. They do it anyway though. These people have even been in the same groups who've had players that have done shit like that before, and yet they do it away!

>>54246978
Name a low fantasy setting that does this. Every low fantasy setting that has a slight following usually has casters that can do more than subtle shit. GoT, the Night Angel trilogy, the Painted Man series, even LotR has caster gods with most of the setting carrying on as low fantasy (though they have their own restrictions with not being able to fight fate).

>>54260793
So we're back to it being a player problem. You can just say no to these people.

>>54260031
>Do we need a fucking alignment chart for tiers of fantasy?
Absolutely not.
So who's gonna make it?

>>54261016
Those settings are not low fantasy.
Low fantasy follows the real world's laws of physics. High fantasy has it's own rules.
Lovecraft is low fantasy, Conan is high fantasy.

>>54261276
>yet another definition of Low Fantasy
How many is that now?

>>54262057
I don't man, the 20th? I'd say this thread had gone full autism a day ago, but that's ignoring how much of a an asshole the OP sounded to begin with, and the fact this is more or less a bait thread.

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>>54261276
>Low fantasy follows the real world's laws of physics
>Lovecraft is low fantasy

>>54259034
>Russian has no dialects
As a russian, you have no idea what you're talking about

>>54238766

I prefer 'High Adventure'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg

>>54238766
That isn't really an opinion anyone serious holds. You are an idiot with limited experience, you don't know anything about anyone with an actual voice in the genre.

>>54261016
wfrp

>>54238816
>ASOIAF is good because it's a heavily detailed world
lol nope

>>54261016
You literraly only listed the High Fantasy Staples faglord.

>>54239365
>technically correct one
Not how it works.

>>54262057
In fairness, lotr is one of the first and foundational high fantasy series. Hell, most of the modern high fantasy tropes got really cemented with tolkienesque fantasy of the 70s and 80s.

I'd call conan the quintessential low fantasy. Maybe something like the dying earth would fit as well. Amoral and murderhobo protags, wizards are 80% conmen and the rest trinkets, rituals and deals with evil spirits.

>>54264713
Well, everything that belongs in earth follows earth rules. Everything else follows it's own.

>>54239840
>There are humans, children of the forest, the Others

The Others are just mutated humans with necromantic powers. Sure it's a show thing but it makes sense for the books too.

>>54265607
It's pretty clear that the Others are some sort of weapon used by the Children to wipe out humanity.

>>54264883
This is what is best in life

>>54265607
>Sure it's a show thing but it makes sense for the books too.
No, it doesn't. They are made out of crystal in the books. Dumb showfaggot

>>54245987
Well, look at ASOIAF, which is the poster boy of so-called low fantasy.

How are ordinary warriors meant to stand up against magic that can summon shadowy assassins and bring the dead back to life?

Low fantasy settings where magic is hellishly rare also have magic be hellishly powerful.

>>54266060
>Low fantasy settings where magic is hellishly rare also have magic be hellishly powerful.


This. You see this in Conan The Barbarian as well.

Though that is arguably more Swords And Sorcery, a big part of Swords and Sorcery is that magic isn't everywhere, and those that have it are usually corrupt cocksuckers.

I'm looking at you, Thoth Amon.

>>54265607
Showfags, leave.

>>54266060
>>54266078

But in those settings, the wizard can be easily taken down by hero or even the lady in distress with some luck. Magic is like a gun: okay, you're fucked if the other guy has one and you don't but there's thousands of scenarios where the gun doesn't prevent you from smashing his skull. You're fighting a man in the end.

Magic in higher fantasy often has so many uses that you're fucked if you don't have it, even without the restrictions of realism. You either have magic as well in some form or are destined to be worst.

>>54266199
>But in those settings, the wizard can be easily taken down by hero or even the lady in distress with some luck

Not always. In Swords and Sorcery? Yes. Low Fantasy? Ehhh not so much.


>You either have magic as well in some form or are destined to be worst.

No you don-

>Magic swords or enchantments

Oh wait. Yeah. Yeah you're right on that.
-

I think why this thread is going on so long is because there is a fuckton of overlap all over the place.

>>54266199
That depends on the tone that the setting wants to use regarding magic.

In the case of Lord of the Rings and Conan, we do see magical creatures and wielders of magic be defeated by the entirely mundane. One could argue that this is unrealistic, as the appropriate exploitation of magic according to its rules in those settings could have led to those defeats never happening.
In the case of A Song of Ice and Fire, the advantages earned through magic are treated more realistically, to the point where smart wielders of magic maneuver themselves into positions where they're almost impossible to eliminate.
At its most extreme, I'll bring up the less known The First Law. In that series, the few characters that are capable of wielding magic have exploited it to the point where the setting is built around them. The world is nothing more than a chess board for them to manipulate as they send their proxy nations to fight one another. They are beyond defeat, simply because they're able to bend the rules of reality and do so with a little creativity and intelligence.

Any level of magic in a setting can completely warp how the world functions. Can a magician transmute one substance into another, potentially more valuable substance? That magician can ruin economies. Can a magician create magical items that bolster the fighting efficiency of their wielder? That magician can create an empire that spans continents. Can a magician bring the dead back to life? Welcome to the apocalypse.

If a magician is capable of anything that any non-magician is not capable of, then the only thing that prevents that magician from dominating the setting is the presence of other magicians. Magic is at its most meaningless in high fantasy settings, where you can go to a single village without bumping into a magician.

Caster supremacy exists in all settings where magic exists. The rarer magic is, the more obvious it is.

>>54261276
>>54264713
non-euclidean physics

>>54243067
Look mom i'm trolling four chan

>>54266471
>trolling
>speaking the truth
Now this is trolling.

>>54266632
Your examples couldn't be more cherry-picked if you tried

>>54266650
>your
>/tg/ is one person

>cherry picking is trolling
The trolling is real. It comes from you.

>>54266632
You got that from /v/, didn't you?
It's almost cute, now fuck off.
>>54266386
Magic in anything depends on what the setting says you can do. There are many settings where magic can do anything for a price, and where magic can't do that much for very little.
Stop laying blanket terms down and speaking in D&D speak, it doesn't apply here.

>>54266678
>you
HAHAHA

Nigger the original post is like 8 hours old, you have to be truly autistic to believe whoever posted it is still fucking here waiting for someone to reply to him. Do you even brain?

>>54266386
>In the case of A Song of Ice and Fire, the advantages earned through magic are treated more realistically, to the point where smart wielders of magic maneuver themselves into positions where they're almost impossible to eliminate.

no moreso than, say, varys the spider. in fact, given melisandre's goal is to enable stannis' victory and most of the other players don't have magic users, she hasn't done a great job.

>>54266705
Your desire to be a cunt lends weight that, yes, it was you.
So please, keep being a cunt, this thread is silly, anyway.

>>54266678
There were no D&D speak terms there. It was purposefully vague to encompass all forms of magic.

Go ahead and describe a usage of magic from any setting that does something that a non-magician from that same setting wouldn't be able to replicate. Let's see your balanced magic.

>>54266737
>The one sperging out about an 8 hours old image is not the cunt
>is the guy mocking him
lmaoing at your logic, m8

>>54259599
wait so does the squid the cook or the person eating the meal have to be a virgin? can i just sprinkle virgin blood? I need details here

>>54266738
>There were no D&D speak terms there
>Caster supremacy, a term that references 3.PF D&D and was created for it
No, anon, because in most settings where "magic" is powerful, there are still plenty of ways to defeat, and plenty of beings who don't even give a fuck about it. Hell, LotR has incredibly potent magic, but it is so subtle and ingrained into the world, people mistake it for low fantasy.

>>54266865
Yes, and the sort of magic that even LotR has, intelligently used, could allow an individual to become almost unstoppable.

Breaking the laws of physics, even on a subtle level, is a hell of an advantage.

>>54266896
>could allow an individual to become almost unstoppable.
Yes, ask the First Age elves about that, oh, wait, they are all dead except for... 2, iirc.

>>54248332

Well, that went bad very fast. Like, insanely fast.

I'm personally wondering what Euron's plan is. We know that Dragonbinder is going to work, but Victarion is the dude who knows how to use it and in fact is currently holding it. There's obviously no way Euron is dumb enough to have handed Victarion something he can just turn against him.

Like, how's this supposed to go? (I like the fact that Euron has Sauron's armor now, though. That's metal as fuck.)

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>>54260380
Y-you know a setting can be low fantasy and isn't pure grim dark, those don't really have to go hand in hand, just saying