/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General: Unappreciated Faction General

So who should write the Salamanders if not Kyme?

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IT IS FINISHED

>>53279486
Literally anyone else. Kyme should not write.

>>53279481

Good. I don't want to be reading too much into it. I know everyone gives ADB so much shit for being all "Chaos is teh winna!" but I don't see it as much as other people seem to. I haven't turned on him quite as much as a lot of people have.

>>53279496
Good going, though only you know what any of that shit means.

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Any bets on how GW and BL screw this up?
I'm guessing it's either going to be
>horus and/or sanguinus didn't die and are in hiding so they can be back in 40k
Or
>Chaos is soooo strong that the emperor couldn't ever hope to defeat Horus and so we get some other bullshit of how horus was beaten, like every perpetual giving up their immortality to empower the emperor or some other fanfiction tier crap.

>>53279687
The latter. Almost guaranteed.

>>53279582
What's there to not get?

>>53279780
Not everyone watches Idol Moeshit. In fact you're probably literally the only HH Fan who does. Real HH Anime is stuff like LOGH and Fist of the North Star.

>>53279687
>>53279703
You guys aren't thinking anything like a BL writer
It's going to be something like this:
>Horus was so empowered by chaos that the emperor could never beat him, until a device that the cabal had, stolen by the alpha legion tomhelp the loyalists, was used to sacrafice the immortality of all the perpetuals, empowering the emperor, but wiping away all his chaos blessings that he stole, to be able to handily defeat horus. However, as soon as he did that, the lack of his stolen powers allowed abbadon and his magic murder demon ally, to mortally wound the emperor, ensuring abbadon would be the favored of chaos destined to rule the galaxy, because chaos always wins. Also, the machine being used is the actual reason the necrons woke up and it's actually what sharded the C'tan, who were really super perpetuals. Also, there are lots of waifus in this book. And people of color. Chaos is the best step dad, we at BL know these changes will offend some (most) readers, but we don't care.
Any other BL memes or typical bullshit I missed?

>>53279496
go back to r*ddit namefaggot and take your shitty '''''''oc''''''' weeb cancer with you

>>53279496
I wasnt impressed before i saw the blurred out white scars one, then i giggled.

>>53279875
Your post was so good it was akin to a tale from the M1 Terran dramaturge Shakspire, who we only have 3 plays by, including Gimlet, princeps of Danemark.

>>53279687
Carnac months ago posted Laurie Goulding's post in which he said that the IP manager and him have been planning to scrap William King's version of the final fight for a long time because it makes no sense for the Emperor to give that much of damn about Horus whom he considers nothing but a tool.

So how is this news to anyone?

>>53279875
>the lack of his stolen powers allowed abbadon and his magic murder demon ally, to mortally wound the emperor, ensuring abbadon would be the favored of chaos destined to rule the galaxy, because chaos always wins.
My new headcanon is that Abaddon wields Ra. Grabs him by the ankle, swings him at foes.
>Also, the machine being used is the actual reason the necrons woke up and it's actually what sharded the C'tan
You really are a damn BL writer
>Chaos is the best step dad
Can't believe this stuck.

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>>53279687
>>Chaos is soooo strong that the emperor couldn't ever hope to defeat Horus and so we get some other bullshit of how horus was beaten, like every perpetual giving up their immortality to empower the emperor or some other fanfiction tier crap.

It has to do with the weapon that Olly is carrying. The true Anathme, a weapon capable of killing a god. Refer to the audiobook "Perpetual".

Olly is heading towards Terra. Travelling through space and time. Currently he is in the DAoT so he will arrive at Terra as the final fight is happening.

He will use the True Anatheme to depower Horus or outright kill him,

>>53280103
Athame*

>>53280155
*Athameme

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>>53279687
>like every perpetual giving up their immortality to empower the emperor or some other fanfiction tier crap.
I could see it happening.

>>53279975
You fool, Gimlet was a character made famous by the famed dramaturge of M2 George R R R R Tolken in his famed works The Song of the Ring and A Lord of Ice and Fire.

>>53280103
No, no, no, Horus will stand triumphant having defeated the Emperor when Olly will cut his way into the past where he gives the Emperor the sword just before the assault begins, leading to Horus suddenly developing a mortal wound and perishing.

>>53280322

.....
I like the Shakespire stuff and other things like that. 30,000 years of cultural drift means names and things will change and be lost.

>>53279822
>there will never be an idol moeshit anime about the femarchs
Why was I created to feel pain

>>53280524
Hey, you got this thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ0o3N52_BI

>>53279687
I thought the perpetual wanted Horus to win.

>>53281008
The Cabal do.

Most of the Perpetuals are grudgingly on the Emperor's side.

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>>53280039
every fucking thing that smug cunt Goulding spews out makes me want to take a brick to the bridge of his nose

Were the weapons systems of Canis Vertex ever detailed in the books?

If I wanted to produce the warlord titan, what should the armament and head options be?

What special rules would YOU give it? It WAS possessed by Captain Khalophis, overseer of the Pyrae cult.

What do you fellas think of a bunch of loyalist night lords that take the hands of traitors, paint them red, and use them as trophies?

>>53282033
only the space sharks are loyalist night lords

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>>53282112
>chapter specialized in void combat
>Night Lords

>>53282153
they just specialize in assaults and close combat

>>53282191

Regardless, I was thinking of a loyalist NL chapter that goes renegade after Terra because they refused to disband, started hunting traitors, and then 10000 years of shit happened.

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>>53282246
oh ok

on a side note that sounds a lot like the space sharks back story anyway

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>>53282033

>>53282112

The Space Sharks were Raven Guard outcasts, at least until some GW higher ups got butthurt and forced a retcon of the retcon to make them chimeric RG / NL / WE.

>>53282276

Fuck, really? I honestly haven't read much into the space sharks.

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>>53282287
they were implied rg outcasts for like a month dont act like its some sort of old ingrained lore that got tragically changed

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>>53279443
>No mention of Emu Warfare, Cassowarriors, Space Swan or Dire Geese

>>53282287
Bullshit, when? Last I checked they were finally officially stated in their novel to be Raven Guard successors.

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>>53282033
Painting your hands red is always a good idea

>>53282504

red tithe says they're chimeric

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>>53282518
which is equally as stupid as being rg successors

nl loyalists is the only interesting path that doesnt get into nonsense territory like chimeric does

pretty sure players are forced to ignore 80% of fluff that gets put out by BL and nu-GW so whats 81% to them?

>>53282508

Nigh Lords paint hands red for a different reason, anon.

>>53282547
>nl loyalists is the only interesting path that doesnt get into nonsense territory like chimeric does
Why is it wrong for them to descend from the Terran elements Corax sent away? The former Legion Master is literally named SArkhas Fal.

>>53282547
>which is equally as stupid as being rg successors
The exiled Pale Nomads angle was cool I'll fight you irl.

>>53282569
I know the whole sentenced-to-death not-yet-sanctioned-to-die thing, but again.
Crimson Hands, Red Talons, Brazen Claws. They all look nice. And the NL do have that thing with their hands (that another blue legion, the UMs, had with helmets), so yeah, why not?

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>>53282581
>>53282587

because its boring and space sharks were memed into (re)existence so they deserve something that is at least noteworthy

>>53282587

I agree. I love them being RG exiled Pale Nomads.

And regardless if they had some NL or WE geneseed introduced it's pretty obvious even from their novel they are descended from the original Pale Nomad fleet, their culture and lore in the novel speaks to it too.

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>>53282486
>>53282276
>>53282281
There are mutated bird overlords full to the brim with rage and hate that Khorne can only dream and giggle about like a school girl. Everyone' army gets CHAINAXES. Game on!

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>>53281843
>Hating on based Laurie

>>53282660
Fuck off Laurie. BL is trash and the HH is esspecially trash.

>>53282595

Ah ok, I get what you're saying now. The idea is that they paint the hands they take red for that reason, not that their own hands are red.

>>53282641
they are more about the fear that mutilating people brings instead of actually getting their dick hard from it though

they also actually use tactics and dont mind an ordered retread if resistance is too hard and just look for a different weak point to attack

>>53282641
>>53282705
Their main tactic is chainbeaking people in the dick.

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>>53282705
...so what your saying is that the last bread's technobirdbarians actually have more in common with night lords than pure hatred. I like it!
>>53282608
New Space Shark fluff; gene'd up to specifically fight technobirdbarians....no I don't have a personal stake in it, why would you ask?

>>53282660
i cant believe i took the time to actually read that utter fucking shit

fuck you laurie god damn it i want that wasted time back

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>>53282697
Eh. If you want to, sure.
Or maybe they painted their hands red in a concept similar to the unforgiven. They aren't sanctioned to die until they've reaped their tally of traitors.
The Eight is the Emperor's Retribution.
>WE HAVE COME FOR YOU

>>53280103
>>53280347

Ol lives to give the athame to Sanguinous, who uses it to cause the chink in horus's armor that allows the emperor to win

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>>53282759
right. ideally in a surprise attack...unless things turn out bad in which case they melt away and look for another place to attack

they are calling fuckers out to engage them in personal honor duels or jacking themselves off with the blood of slain enemies

they are stone cold killers, fighting to total silence just to get the job done, not for honor or rage etc

very night lords'y

>>53282660
>based Laurie
Aaron go back to writing another Night Lords book. Stick to what you're good at.

>>53280039
>>53281843
The post was:
>Some interesting points. Nice to see this book [MoM] getting a good and critical going over by everyone.

>Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity. I can give you a peek behind the curtain - I wanted to have Alan Merrett completely overwrite that really outdated passage for 'Visions of Heresy', and Alan wanted to do it... but we simply didn't have time before the deadline. We'll get to that task at some future point.

>But William King's original HH text is no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson. It's painful to see people clinging to it like it's the word of god, when everything else has been correctly, authentically and appropriately re-told since then.

>Keep the discussion going though!

Also, here's the original story. It isn't that great, imo.
http://dakka.chat.ru/fict_heresy.html

>>53282813
That works, too. Actually, that was more where I was leaning at first, but then I wondered why they would paint their own hands, then? Either way works really, but I was definitely aiming for the whole retribution "Send the eighth!" angle.

>>53282822
>who uses it to cause the chink in horus's armor
Why is there a White Scar in Horus' armor?

>>53283060
Every time I read this I hope King gets to write that book.

>no more canon than 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson
So does this mean Astartes don't fart? What about Primaris Astartes?

>>53283124
I like that BL is still selling 'Space Marine'. Their website says:
>First published in 1993 – though completed some years earlier – at a time when the background to the Warhammer 40,000 universe was still in a state of flux and not yet fully coalesced, you'll find such wonders as squats – Tzeentch-worshipping squats at that – alongside Space Marines controlling Titans, Space Marines with lasguns, the Pain Glove and more than a small amount of toilet humour. Oh, and a Zoat. How could we forget the Zoat?

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>>53282681
>HH is trash.

Fug. I have so many Marines to assemble let alone paint. It just recently occurred to me that I have 15/90 dudes in power armor "assembled" and by that I mean legs, torso, arms, backpack, and magnetized weapon, no head or shoulders yet. On the flip side, they're primed and undercoated with a few actually painted.

>>53283570
Have you written up a list? You won't have to assemble 90, probably...

>>53283377
The Horus Heresy is pretty trashy anon. I still love it though.

>>53283570
There was a guy with like 250 marines to paint. next to that you're pretty lucky.

>>53279975
>>53280322
You're idiots.

>>53280473
They also don't get that it's a reference to an ancient Greek playwright that we know wrote lots of plays, of which only 3 have survived.

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>TFW Custode Tribune with punchy setup of death that's probably neve going to get used

>>53283602

I sort of have a 30k list, but what I have assembled is more for 40k. What I own is pretty basic in terms of 30k, so list building felt very odd and almost every single response I got basically said I lacked AT and AA, which I true I suppose. I'm NL, we basically don't have shit for that. The only non-basic thing I have is a Dreadclaw.

>>53283570
Paint them 5 at a time. It'll make it feel a bit more do-able, and you'll feel like you've accomplished something with each batch. Doing too many at once will kill your interest to paint them all together.

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Also started on my IF Praetor. Fuck I forgot how tiny these are next to Custodes

>>53283774
>those mold lines
>what looks like garlic butter under the arm
dude, clean up your custodes for fucks sake, ideally before assembly.

>>53283801
Anon what is that sword? It's stupidly oversized

>>53283815
Holy shit do you not understand what putty or WIP is?

Or are you that fucking stupid?

How anal are people about modeling equipment on their Praetors? Like, will I get jumped because my praetor doesn't have an Iron Halo attatched to the model?

>>53283815
>what looks like garlic butter under the arm
You see, anon, when you reek of an aura of garlic, assassins cannot approach the Emperor.

>>53283850
I'd act like I was okay with it but then key your car when I leave.

>>53283850
my local groups are pretty fine with stuff like that. if need be you could just say "it's an old uncovered archaeotech field that's integrated into the armour" or something like that. might not please the megautists like the one ultramarine player who refused to play against white scars because they haven't had canon accounts where they fought.

>>53283775
If your friends allow multi-bombing, you're fine. Otherwise add attack bikes or melta/combimelta vets (for Machine Killer) or something like that.

>>53283964
>ultramarine player
>autist
How surprising!

>>53283844
>not cleaning all mold lines first
>fumbling around with the assembled model

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>glory to horus
>glory to the phoenician

>>53283377
BL HH is utter trash. Few gold nuggets doesn't change the fact it's a massive, ongoing turd that shits on everything.

>>53284073
I wonder why are you here if you don't like one of the very few sources of fluff we have in a fluff driven game

>>53284027
You sound horrifically autistic

>>53284118
Perhaps I am. Perhaps they made me so.

>>53283988

I had a unit of podding melta vets (Terror Assault) and a MM+Chainfist contemptor with Dreadclaw coming down T1 and the rest was basically termies and terror squads. I also have a bunch of Autocannons I can use, too.

>>53283791
Yea, that's what I'm trying to do. I have 5 primed, undercoated, and based blue at the moment. One is finished and the other is getting there.

>>53283774
Do Custodes units need a guy with a power fist or a power axe in them? Haven't built mine yet... leaning towards spears for most of them, but I will give a guy the vexilla.

>>53284211
Nah; not for Tribunes or anything, but the Solerite power Gauntlets are great in squads

>>53284093
not him, but you can like the setting, and some parts of the fluff, without gobbling up everything BL pulled out of their asses.

>Primarch Series
>Rowboat attacks the Ork Empire
>no Imperial Army Contingents
>no Titan Legion
>not even Imperial Knights
>just his Legion
On top of that Rowboat and his whole General Staff came out of it looking like utter idiots.

The Original Horus Trilogy was great, and some good books have been in there since, but much, if not most of it is simply not of the same quality.

>>53280103
>He will use the True Anatheme to depower Horus or outright kill him
>Olly

That's a funny way to spell Garviel Loken, anon

Search your hearts anon, if he managed to survive Isstvan III and a direct fucking confrontation with Horus and the Nu-Mournival you can be sure as shit he'll be at ground zero when it all goes down between the Emps and Horus

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>>53283774
>not dual-wielding talons
>not putting claws on the boots
>not going full Hayabusa

>>53284359
Fuck you because you're right. Reviving Loken was a mistake.
>>53284371
Silly anon, you don't just go "full" Hayabusa!

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Does /hhg/ approve of my Custodes jetbike counts-as?

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>>53284371
>Implying

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>>53284436
>Fuck you because you're right

I really don't want to be, but BL being BL they're clearing building up to some sort of major confrontation between Loken and Horus

Vengeful Spirit was where they should've ended him if they absolutely had to bring him back

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>>53284463
>Don't talk to me or my souless waifu ever again
|:D

>>53284436
>don't
Falsehood.
>>53284463
You're getting close, anon.
Put some claws on the feet, julienne your foes.

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>>53284359
I mean some other guys managed to survive Molech and Isstvan III pretty well. Speaking of which how the fuck did Morturg, Decima and friends get off of Isstvan? Did they just... jack a Thunderhawk and ram it into the nearest cruiser to take over? Head out to the edge of the system in time for the Drop Site Massacre? buddy cop movie with cyberundead Morturg, Autek Mor and Kyr Vhalen when

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>>53284482
Not that I don't like people living for the Imperium, but he should have died for the Emperor

>>53284093
I'm sorry, didn't know this was the Horus Heresy Book Club General.

Not like we have big volumes of fluff from FW or dozens of snippets of fluff through the ages from various sources, regardless of what Goldie thinks of them. Not to forget that there's an actual game to discus about. No, ignore that, if you don't like BL's HH, get the fuck out, REEEEEEE!

>>53284482
I quite like the tales of Loken, Garro and the handful Isstvan III survivors but they have been pulling too much with him surviving on the Vengeful Spirit and recovering from his mortal wounds after fighting Abby. speaking of which how snowflake is it for a praetor to be rumoured to have survived isstvan

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>>53284501
>Saul Tarvitz AND A FUCKING 100 OR SO LOYALIST MARINES LEFT TO PLAY AROUND WITH
>"Yeah nah, let's just revive Loken instead because who doesn't love a Marty Sue?"

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>>53284492
Loken survives being powerfisted by Abaddon and then having a building drop on top of him and laser bombed.
>Muh Cerbberus, Legion of One because Death rejected me
Cringiest bullshit.
>Did they just... jack a Thunderhawk and ram it into the nearest cruiser to take over?
I thought so. Maybe they left early. Morturg says Istvaan III was over when he was being dragged away by Caleb, and that's apparently before the traitors retreat and bomb the planet yet again.
>Buddy cop movie with cyberundead Morturg, Angry Decima, Autek Mor and Kyr Vhalen when
Can't come soon enough.

>>53284492
It's Magos Reductor Calleb "GTA" Decima. He probably crawled down the cannon of a passing Thunderhawk until it took them to their cruiser and then berated it into flying them out of there. I slightly wish he could do that to enemy vehicles, would make him actually worth taking it he could steal a Typhon or something if he got close to it and beat it with Haywire melee.

>>53284492
IIRC Macer Varren and some WE loyalists seized control of a small cruiser and got the fuck out of dodge, and I think the FW HH books established that loyalists managed to seize a few ships in orbit - instead of "practically every loyalist was sent down to Isstvan and died there"

>>53284595
Was Varren from Isstvan III? He had a group of secretly traitor White Scars with him and his World Eaters, but it's possible they got picked up along the way. Cool guy either way. Best WE next to Kharn.

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>>53284586
His rules don't really match his fluff, and viceversa.
No vehicle comandeering, no dedicated Thallax retinue and he's a Reductor but never sieged anything, nor does he have the usual profile, because he was introduced in HH1 where the Reductor wasn't going to be include in the allies-only Mechanicum faction. And then they tried to give them rules in HH2, failing. And then they introducted Ordinators in HH3, but had to fix and finally re-re-RE-release REEEEEEEductors in the Thagmata codex.
Don't we love FW's redaction abilities?

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>>53284617
I think so, the Garro book was unclear on how exactly he survived Isstvan

>Best WE next to Kharn.

Ehrlen > Varren > Kharn
>that part in Galaxy in Flames where the loyalist WEs charge Angron and the traitor WEs

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>>53284661
>>that part in Galaxy in Flames where the loyalist WEs charge Angron and the traitor WEs
Shabran & Kauragar never forget :''''''''''''''''''(

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>>53284686
F

>>53284661
oh I forgot about Ehrlen and Darr. they went fucking berserk. you know you're badass when the traitors are scared of you.

>>53284661
>WE Captain Ehrlen
Damnit, looks like I need to read the first four books again...

>>53284686
no matter how you look at it, Angron is the most entitled fucking bitch ass retard in the galaxy.

>has been created to serve humanity
>thinks he is allowed to die like some retard for a petty slave revolt
>when his creator has a galaxy to conquer
Big E should have beaten him to a bloody pulp and wiped his memory, fucking idiot.

>>53279443
>>53279823
armin becoming a titan is after Levi's backstory is revealed, and you forgot to mention the hook shots are part of basically shot gun pistols which never kill anyone somehow
But yeah shit manga desu, just addicted to story

>>53284780
I think he pissed me off the most in Betrayer...

Because when he orders the death of everyone on his home planet. Apparently he doesn't say to spare the slaves, unless that gets mentioned in another book.

>>53284644
Yeah, and he has a dedicated Macrocarid despite using a fancy Drop Pod instead. Why more things can't get DT Macros I don't know, since IIRC the Legions get a few generic sources of DT Spartans.

As for Decima, I would think he'd be basically Reductor Alpharius in terms of abilities, fucking with your opponent's vehicles and reserves and deploying them out of position thanks to his skill at guerilla warfare. Bonus to First Turn roll/sieze, debuffing or stealing enemy vehicles and native Deep Strike if he goes with Thallax or Enginseers would be cool.

>>53284581
>Loken survives being powerfisted by Abaddon and then having a building drop on top of him and laser bombed.

Don't forget defeating Lucius AND Kharn in combat albeit by punching Lucius in the face, thought I'm not entirely sure if that was Loken or one of the loyalist ECs that did that

>>53284780
The emperor was the retarded there
>arrives to planet with an entire fleet
>his son is going to die down there in a completely justified revolt
>"should I help him and win the loyalty of lots of powerful warriors and the love of my lost son?"
>"Nah, better teleport him and let his brothers get slaughtered in front of his eyes"

>>53284842
Loken did it during a sparring match with Lucius. And then Saul did it later when he betrayed the loyalist EC and tried to kill him.

>>53284780
If he was created to serve humanity then he shouldn't have been created as a human being with free will. Making someone to be a slave is still slavery.

>>53284780
He was raised as a gladiator and is insane. I don't agree with him, but neither do I hold him responsible for being insane beyond repair.
The one thing gladiators want is respite, and Emps did steal from him, instead of descending from on high with the might of both the XIIth and His Companions, all for the sake of an utterly WORTHLESS world that neither contributed space marines nor technology and no regiment was heard of from.
That's the importance the Emperor gives to the tools He supposedly needs so much.
And before the argument of "Angron's friends were corrupted" is uttered, the First Found recruited from a world where people wore organ cloaks, so did the Eight, the first Fenrisian became a fucking wulfen on induction, and Lorgar inducted a fucking literal priest to the Legions, who was one of the main causes of the fucking heresy itself.
No, I blame the Eldar and their stupid self-fulfilling prophecies that ALWAYS end up causing the very thing they try to prevent.

>>53284846
To be fair to BL for once there was really no way to get around that outside a complete retcon of the fluff - i.e. like the Emps actually sending the War Hounds down to help Angron, and Angron being resentful because he feels he "could" have defeated the slavers/Nucerians

>>53284842
Loken is such a Sue that I bet he could even survive duelling with Fulgrim though some shitty excuse.

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>>53284886
I love how a bunch of random angry Anons on the internet can fluff better than BL. No sarcasm there either.

>>53284884
There was no "saving" them, Angron's intent was to die, and he says so himself.
In his mind, the only freedom is finding a place to die of his own choosing. The Emperor could have been the most pleasant guy in the galaxy and it wouldn't matter to Angron because to him, service to anyone besides himself was the problem.

>>53284929
I don't know, I feel like if BL did do something different with Angron there'd still be autistic REEEEEEEEEEEEing over how it broke with the canon as laid down when GW released that HH card game

Or did "The Emperor let's Angron's gladiatorbros die" predate that card game in the fluff? My knowledge of the Heresy fluff only goes back to that card game, and when each new White Dwarf issue had backgrounds on the various Primarchs/Space Marine legions as a tie-in to the HH card game

>>53284886
There's no need to fix that part. The thing is just that the emp is an asshole

>>53284998
Yeah but there's being an asshole for a reason and an asshole without a reason - I mean it's not like there was anything the Emperor had to lose by sending the War Hounds down to save Angron

>>53285006
>>53284998
Considering no one ever asked Emps why he did that and got an answer, the offhand hurr he's an asshole only makes sense if you take BL's recent tack that everything the Emperor did was stupid forever.

>>53285016
>the offhand hurr he's an asshole only makes sense if you take BL's recent tack that everything the Emperor did was stupid forever.

Thank you based ABD

>>53285030
ADB*, dammit

>>53285006
>and an asshole without a reason
Angron was the shitest Primarch thats why. He's basically brain dead thanks to his implants and the Emperor wasnt about tearing down compliant worlds.

>>53284525
Does he have to be a praetor at the time?

I'm not really in favor of yet more Isstvan III survivors.

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>>53283826
Looks like this sword from the Vanguard kit.

>>53285052
>wasnt about tearing down compliant worlds

screaming_monarchian_citizens.wav

>>53285082
>Monachia
>Compliant
Pick one.

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>>53285052
>He's basically brain dead thanks to his implants and the Emperor wasnt about tearing down compliant worlds.

Then why didn't the Emperor just let him die the death Angron so clearly wanted instead of corrupting the War Hounds with the same technology?

>b-b-but he banned the Nails

Yeah but it's not like he could enforce any edict he gave a primarch if said primarch is at the fringes of the galaxy

>>53284211
A power axe on the vexilla dude seems like a good fit for spear units, since you get reliable AP2 in round 2 of the combat, just in case. The axe is master crafted too.

>>53285099
>Then why didn't the Emperor just let him die the death Angron so clearly wanted
Because half a primarch is still useful. And fuck knows why Angron allowed his legion to adopt the nails when all he did was bitch about them. Thats a big 'plot hole' to me then the Emperor not enforcing his ban better.

>>53284525
I like almost everything from the horus heresy series, but even I cringed when I read about Luna Wolverine in vengeful spirit. The only thing Vengeful Spirit needed to make it a truly awesome book was the removal of all the loken chapters.

>>53285175
>I like almost everything from the horus heresy series

Even
>Kyme
?

>>53284538
Pls don't remind me.

>>53284492
Didn't Kyr die at Paramar?

>>53285124
Angron didn't just allow the nails in his legionaries, he demanded their implantation.

>half a Primarch is more useful than no Primarch
>a mad dog is better than no dog
>wow it bit me who could have foreseen this

>>53284617
He had some loyalist EC with him too for a while. RIP.

>>53285248
>implying the WE were even remotely the most dangerous of the traitors

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>>53284686
>Kaurgar. Kauragar?

>>53285030
The first page to MoM (when Magnus psychically smashes into the palace) shows the Emperor in a more reasonable light. He calls Magnus by his name, and sadly.

I can see him not feeling quite so fatherly with Angron though.
>Stop fucking around with the government of a compliant planet and get up here, we've got bigger things to do.

>>53285262
If the Emperor had just fed Angron a lead pill then they probably wouldn't have gone traitor at all.

>>53285290
>If the Emperor had just fed Horus/Lorgar a lead pill

>>53285304
Lorgar and Horus were totally fine (although Lorgar did dawdle a little) until they started chugging the Chaos koolaid. Angron was stoked to rebel from the very beginning.

>>53285304
HH has it that the Emperor sees the primarchs as tools. Angron is a broken, unrepairable tool. Ergo, he should have been shot once it was clear he had no use and would be more trouble than he was worth. 2 Legions were eliminated, another would not have upset the balance.

Comparatively, Horus and Lorgar were not obviously broken.

>>53285355
>Angron is a broken, unrepairable tool.

But he wasnt, the Emps wanted him for planetary genocide and Angron delivered, sure he was unstable and was going to die eventually but that wasnt a problem when the WE were conquering whole systems just by showing up.

Angron was an efficient tool in the eyes of the Emperor.

>>53285413
Angron was a tactical moron whose only skill was hitting things with axes. The War Hounds would have been much more effective at bringing worlds to compliance without his fuckery. This applies tenfold once you factor in the price of the nails.

>>53285454
>Angron was a tactical moron
But a number of his commanders weren't.
Even then, the War Hounds were shocktroops, there were other legions if you wanted orderly compliance.

BL keeps Loken alive for that one single line at the end.

> "I was there, the day Horus killed the Emperor."

>>53285536
Why am I not surprised...

>>53284816
He never truly made it his home thought.

>>53285557
Then why was he so pissed at leaving it alive ?

>>53285413
And that's why the 'primarchs are only tools' thing doesn't work. If Emps views them as his sons it makes a lot more sense that he doesn't just kill Angron right from the get go.

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>>53285536
>"I was there the day Horus saved the Emperor"

>>53285522
It doesn't matter that his commanders are competent when he gives them retarded orders which they have to obey. Those commanders became a lot less effective when he hammered the nails into their skulls.
>but the Emperor didn't approve of the nails
then he shouldn't have left a brain damaged lunatic in unchecked control of 1/18 of the Imperium's most valuable warriors.

>>53285589
Angron was mad that the Emperor left his friends to die and only saved him.

>>53285454
Both your's and eventually the Emperor's mistake is considering the War Hounds/WE a tool of actual compliance, and not as one eager to wreck the living shit out of entire societies, human or alien, whose reason for receiving said smashfucking precludes any need for strategy or nuance. They were, are, and will continue to be walking Exterminatus with that single MO.

For comparisons' sake, the Night Lords exist to terrify a world into compliance, and broadcast the resulting atrocity across the Imperium to cow potentially rebellious worlds into re-examining their idea. The World Eaters literally exist only to rip and tear whatever they are placed in front of into smitheroons.

>>53285648
>They were, are, and will continue to be walking Exterminatus with that single MO.
Which is a liability if you have no way to control it.

>>53285609
I think it makes more sense if they are tools, if they are things then what matters is their efficiency and Angron fulfilled his purpose. If they were his sons then the Emperors lack of comitment in fixing Angron and Curze problems is nonsensical but as tools those problems are irrelevant because they still work as intended.

>>53285697
Mortarion was seriously fucked up too.

>>53285753
Mortarion wasn't insane. He was just an asshole.

>>53285779
Malcador reckoned he was pretty damaged, but it mostly came out as assholishiness, rather than anything else

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>>53285753
>"Okay Mortarian, since you're an impatient cunt here's how the Emps is going to get around the problem of psykers being a necessity for the Empire of Man's current survival"
>joins the guys that are in league with the powers that enable psykers

>>53285779
His adoptive father treated him badly when he was isolated in his tower in zombie fog land.

>>53284846
>and win the loyalty of lots of powerful warriors
top kek, yeah completely wreck a functional world to save two dozen malnourished slaves? Angron apologists drank his petty and shortdighted cool-aid.

Angron never could see the big picture, granted he was a literal retard and even admitted himself that he was objectively the worst Primarch out of the bunch, but still a tremendous retard.

>>53285674
Yes, that is exactly why their role in the Horus Heresy played out as it did.

>>53285917
>yeah completely wreck a functional world to save two dozen malnourished slaves?
Or just teleport the gladiators up with Angron. Every other Primarch got to bring his closest friends along for the Crusade. Maybe execute the planet's leader and replace them if he demands justice. He's one of only 20 living gods, you can make some allowances to gain his loyalty. It's YOU who are failing to think long term.

>>53285355
The Emperor needed the War Hounds, if he killed Angron, he would have had to purge the whole legion. And he had used for the Legion.

The Emperor couldn't have known that Angron actually talked his entire retard legion into accepting the nails.

>>53285956
Exactly. Which is why the Emperor was incompetent for keeping him around.

>>53284460
No

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>>53285016
>>53285006
>>53284985
>>53284929
As a loyalist player I have the following headcanon for angron's discovery:

>Be emps
>Potential Primarch found on Nuceria
>Nuceria oh yeah that's where my awesome berserker primarch XII probably landed
>Cant wait to see what kind of awesome world he made
>maybe I can come down and party again like with Russ and Vulkan
>finally get there
>look out ship window
>XII is there with a ragtag army surrounded by technoslavers
>shit's about to get real
>XII's army is dressed in red and brass screaming about blood and skulls
>see lots of khorne symbology and icons
>and wtf: they're all implanted with demonic(?) archeotech in their brains
>what have they done to my awesome spartacus cloneboy
>saving him would be a major corruption risk
>I don't want to lose another son
>everyone's waiting for a decision
>XII about to die from unstoppable slaver charge
>hear khorne laughing at you from beyond the veil
>XII's friends are too far corrupted and beyond saving
>XII might still be saved if personally tended to on terra
>make the hard choice
>know that I can never explain why because that would mean telling everyone about chaos which I swore on me mum not to do ever
>Know that everyone is going to hate me for it
>fucking chaos fucks, just wait until I finish muh webway project

After he found out (with Land's help) that Angron's nails couldn't be fixed he loved agnron so much he gave him his legion anyway. He probably even told Horus (his bestest primarch) to look out for his little brother. Father of the year award right there.

>>53285976
The Emperor's incompetence predates Angron's discovery. Anything else after that is trivial. Turning Angron loose could probably even be considered salvaging the situation; there were lots of things that needed to die hard by the hands of harder soldiers, including a Demigod's hands.

>>53286042
>the hamfisted Khorne worshippers meme
Dropped.

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>>53279822
>Real HH Anime is stuff like LOGH and Fist of the North Star.

Mah brother-astartes. Get this man a Powerfist & Lightning Claw combo-deal.

>>53286083
>the emperor of mankind being an incompetent asshole or that he meant for the heresy to happen are more likely theories

People generally see what they want to see in the emperor. If someone thinks he's an incompetent asshole that probably tells you more about that person than the emperor.

>>53286201
How so out of curiousity?

>>53286201
Its more likely the Emperor was willing to purge those legions when they became too unstable but Horus galvanizing them into a cohesive force fucked it all up. Without Horus the traitors are just a couple of unsupported legions spread across the galaxy, easy pickings for an organized force.

>>53282660
That was garbage. Makes everything everyone did so utterly meaningless.

>>53285969
This, so much. Fucking hell Emperor, you had one job to do and you blew it. Imagine the sheer carnage the WE would have wreaked if they we loyal?

Angron may be a brain-damaged retard but he appreciated kinship through adversity.

>>53285969
>living gods.
Err. No. They're good, very good, but they're not gods, because they can be killed by mortal weapons and can make plenty of mistakes. Magnus is probably the closest, but they're merely excellent generals and powerful warriors, the legends made them gods afterwards.
Hell, the Emperor himself probably isn't that caliber, he clearly couldn't win the Unification Wars by himself and his weapons are actual things handed to his Personal Guard, so we know how good those are.
If you stick Primarchs into "Living God" level I would probably include the stronger Archmagi and Custodians there too, plus people like that Silica Animus the Wolves and Skitarii fought.

Re. Angron, I would say he's a liability and should probably have been put down, since Exterminatus is an actual thing you have access to and if you want hordes of maniacs you can ask the Biologis politely for some Battle Servitors or Chrono-Gladiators.

>>53285188
*Everything that I've read.

Thanks for the correction anon.

How viable/effective would it be to use a Leviathan on foot (without drop podding it)?

Suck?

>>53285355
The emperor seeing the primarchs as tools is a meme perpetuated by traitorfags who didn't read MoM properly and skipped the afterword. There's even a podcast interview out last monday where ADB literally explains that the numbers and tools thing is an interpetation caused by the custodes and land's translation of the emperor's psychic communication.

If you WANT to hate the emperor: that's totally fine. Just don't pretend that there's only one correct way to think about it.

>>53283733
No, we do get that, that's why it's obnoxious. The references were cute to begin with, but then Ahriman had a translated voynich manuscript and a complete 15th century tarot deck and Perturabo had all of Da Vinci's drawings and Malcador had a cave with mona lisa and a nasa lander and the rosetta stone, oh and Shakspir or Shakspeer or however they're spelling it in this BL book is brought up like a half dozen times.
It's just the authors trying to make you feel smug and clever about understanding a real world reference and even then they don't trust people to get it so have Horus stop and explain what Ezekiel Abaddon means. But continue to be happy you're being patronised with bad writing tropes.

>>53284460
Am I a bad person for liking it?

>>53281924
Even if they were, it specifically said they weren't used, went unloaded and the Vertex just fired balls of warpflame instead.
So I would give it whatever the most disgusting flamer or blast profile there could be.
It also had a flame shield that meant no-one could get near it without melting, so it would have to have some flare shield or super flare shield equivalent, and also penalites to anyone being near it.
Then to give it a weakness I guess I'd make it slow, and if anyone else in the army failed a Perils test you have to roll on the damage table. Something like that.

>>53286514
Could you tell me which podcast was it?

>>53286533
Which book that Malcador's collection reference was in?

>>53286583
Imperial truth, starts 20 minutes in

>>53286514
Just to go on a tangent, I can't really blame the marines who sided with Horus. I can't say for certain that I wouldn't have done the same were I in their situation. With the information they had at time of betrayal it seems perfectly reasonable that the Emperor was going to discard them.
>killed the Thunder Warriors once they outlived their usefulness
>hands more and more power to mortals instead of Astartes
>leaves the Grand Crusade to go do his own thing
Although once things started getting too Chaosy I'd definitely regret my decision.

>>53286595
Aren't there quotes in the FW books about primarchs making references to how they're not there to stay or something like that? And Girlyman saw it fit not to give Marines their own High Lord or any real political power, which I doubt was totally his own idea.

>>53286235
In most of the lore the emperor is described as having a 'shifting face'. People often describe him differently despite having witnessed him in the same moment. Especially in MoM it is implied that the emperor apears to people in a form that is pleasing to them. In effect: the way you see him is often the way your subconcious wants to see him. Like with how noone agrees wether Magnus is an actual cyclops or just lost one of his normal eyes.

Basically: if you expect the emperor to be a machine god, he'll apear as a machine god. If you expext him to be a paragon of science, that's what you'll get. If you believe he's a shiny golden god, you might want to keep your shades handy and if you think he's an asshole he'll probably be a total asshole when you meet him.

>>53286083
Makes more sense than anything else.

>>53286633
>Emperor does incompetent assholish thing
>if you don't accept some random's baseless headcanon as a justification for his behavior it says something bad about you
I am genuinely confused. There's absolutely no proof that Angron's companions are Khorne worshippers. In fact there's some circumstancoal evidence that they weren't. Angron didn't know jack shit about Chaos or Khorne until they were explained by Lorgar.

>>53286595
That's the beauty of the whole thing. I'm a loyalist player but even I'll admit that if I was a member of any traitor legion I would've probably gone along with whatever my primarch was doing. Not only are there several good ways to rationalise a rebellion against the imperium, but you also don't want to go against the will of the being whose gene seed has been implanted in your body. Hell, by the time the chaos corruption truly starts you're probably too far gone to give a damn.

Millions of people do fucked up shit they know is wrong for far dumber reasons every day than what happened with the traitor legions.

>story of how angron was found cannot possibly be changed from old version by BL, so end up with illogical story about the emperor being a dumbass
>story of horus/emperor showdown will be getting completely retconned by BL "at the earliest opportunity"
Really activates the catalepsean node.

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>>53286633
>Perturabo just wanted a dad who loved and valued him
>when he meets the Emperor he doesn't appear as giant shining golden god, but as a normal sized man.

Who did Perturabo see as his dad, hhg?

>>53286775
Laurie wasn't in charge when thingy guy wrote After De'Shea, which confirmed the OG canon in the HH and therefore made it so ADB or other authors couldn't change it without utterly discarding that story.

>>53286726
When did lorgar explain chaos to angron then? Is it in betrayer?

I never thought Angron and friends worshipped Khorne intentionally before he became a daemon. That's the way chaos worship works though: it's sinister and insidious that way. Think enough bad thoughts and those bad thoughts might just take over your life.

>>53286623
Part of it was because of the devastation caused by the Heresy, and the fact that clearly the Emperor didn't want the War Council (primarchs + a few others) to have power.

Though Guilliman was either a high lord or an "adviser" for a while, by virtue of having the largest loyal force in the Galaxy (and none of his brothers wanted the job)

We back? Some stuff about reserves in 8th edition went up:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/17/new-warhammer-40000-reserves-and-deep-striking-may17gw-homepage-post-4/
...in the meantime, and there's some big changes.
>"not every unit can be placed in reserve, so most of your army will usually deploy on the battlefield at the start of the game" - only units with special rules can be held in reserves (examples given: teleporting termis, genecult ambush, ork kommandos sneakin' up on enemies)
>no scatter in the deep strike example they gave (trygon tunnelling), you just place the model at least 9" from any enemy models (that 9"was a pretty common restriction for deep strikers in AOS)
>nor any restriction on charging after the "deep strike", although of course a 9" charge isn't a given
>biggest thing is probably that for Matched Play (the variant with points costs for every model & upgrade) 50% of the army MUST start on the table, so no more null deploy

With the standard disclaimers that we don't know how FW will apply all this to Age Of Darkness games, of course.

>>53286623
>And Girlyman saw it fit not to give Marines their own High Lord or any real political power
>declares himself Lord Commander of the Imperium after The Heresy

>>53287097
Primarch isn't a Space Marine, anon.

>>53287110
>the governing of the Imperium should be left to mortal humans
>except me :^)

>>53287132
>high lords of terra
>"""mortal""" """""""""""humans"""""""""""

>>53283377
The basic story elements in HH is great. Most of the expanded fiction is trash just like how most expanded Star Wars universe stuff is trash.

>>53287062
Those armies that are all about deployment shenanigans will profit a lot from this, like Sons of Horus and Ravenguard. Teleporters like Custards should also be interested in this, shunting their brawler infantry right to the front.
Assuming the individual army concepts remain the same, obviously, but I honestly can't see them changing them too much overall.

>>53282660
So its canon that the Emperor was planning to dispose of the legions? And somehow the Horus Heresy was Just As Planned? I can't say I agree with the direction the plot is taking but it is logically consistent with what we have been presented thus far

I'm running out of stuff to steal, guys. Stormbird, Manta, Mastodon and Ordinatus, Thunderhawk variants etcetera all planned. Baneblade variants don't take much to mock up to Mechanicum standards. Some kind of bioweapon Marauder bomber using the Inferno Bombs was considered, but not sure how it would be different from a normal plane with biohazard markings on the weapon pylons.

Genetor Titan, perhaps? A more complicated shape than the rest of the Megaheavies, certainly. How would that work? Some kind of massive Silica Animus, just with more Mech imagery, or combining a regular Titan with fleshy bitz and bones? I had a deer skull that looked badass for a Warhound head/front torso, but something made off with it before it was reasonably clean.

>>53287371
>I'm running out of stuff to steal, guys.
Why don't you, ya know, actually start building some of these things?

>>53283775
Get a Contemptor-Mortis like literally everyone else

>>53287389
This

>>53287062
It's a shame they didn't go with the first version of the new deepstrike.
>no restriction on charging, but you must deploy 9" away
So what about drop pods? SM now only have to make 3" charges?

>>53287389
Triumvirated.

>>53287389
He's only making the plans so his successor can continue this 10000 year long project.

>>53287097
IIRC, he imposed his book and immediately quit. Take it as you want.

>>53286782
To be fair, normal-sized Pert-dream Emps was shining. Perturabo just wanted to be a giant son of a shining dad, and that's cute.
It would have been better if people had wanted his non-belic inventions, though.

>>53286764
>you also don't want to go against the will of the being whose gene seed has been implanted in your body
You also don't want to go against the will of He who is the Imperium Himself.

>>53283775
Get a lightning fighter and some dreads, the lightning will kill the big stuff and the dreads can be equipped to fill in whatever gaps you have

>>53287844
I'm closer to my dad than my grandpa, anon.

>>53286391
>I care about Angron enough to save him but not enough to save his friends. Oh, turns out he won't survive the crusade anyway. I care about him enough to let him die a warrior's death in the crusade but I will never see him. All the interaction we've ever had were three sentences when I abducted him. No way he rebels. I'm the good guy!
It's stupid. I seriously hope Emps not only expected but also wanted the heresy to happen because it's stupid not to go down to Nuceria the USELESS planet (that nobody can recall what good it did to the crusade) with a legion and the Companions, and not only rescue Angronius, but also gain his trust.
After all, he did accept generalship when he found out Emps was a warrior as well, from Khârn.
Srsly, it's like He purposely did the wrong thing.
Mortarion hated witches and Him for stealing his kill, but make the Emperor boost him with Biomancy and suddenly he'd realize how useful those guys can be.
Make Perturabo feel valued and be the fortress maker, but also teach him why it's wrong to want praise (and then give it to him anyway). Let Dorn be the one of the offensive sieges. He's a Zealot already, and besides the defense of Terra we have NO EXAMPLE of a defensive IF siege, while we have three of the IWs, many offensive ones, and also garrisons.
Let Curze know you know he's having prophetic nightmares, that you must work together to prevent it, and that the order he scared onto his world will disappear as soon as he's gone, so he gotta find something else.
And first and foremost, tell Horus that no, the fucking Great Crusade has NOT yet ended, and that you'd like to see him last as a Warmaster more than fucking 8 years.

>>53287935
What if your grandpa fought in the war but your dad is a liberal and campaigns for refugees welcome?

>>53288075
Don't throw your political shit in our safe space of manchildren games please anon, we are trying to hide from reality here.

>>53288154
Kek ok ok. But thing is, what if you disagreed with him and the road he's planned for you? And what if your grandpa fucking shined, man?
Who would you choose?
NEITHER. You choose mankind, because your dad is now kind to his new daemon wife's sons. That's the correct answer.

>>53288198
Communion with the neverborn is the only answer to mankind's survival anon

>>53288250
She's a daemonic soul-digger you dumb! She'll just use you and take half of your armies.
Shining Gramps may like doggos a bit too much, but He's right and you should be ashamed of yourself.

>>53288198
Depends who my space dad is. I'd probably side with Papa Horus over the Emperor but go with the Emperor over Curze, Pert, etc.

>>53288307
The aliens shall destroy humanity if we deny the fact that the Chaos gods are the only power in the galaxy strong enough to grant humanity the capacity to defend themselves forever and slaughter any possible threat

Anyone ever used that Expeditionary Navigator model? Seems like it might be pretty fun against deepstrikers when buried in an Enginseer squad or something, fuck up psykers, Intercept enemy deepstrikers or if worst comes to worst eye beam some motherfuckers.

>>53288462
I always use the electro-priest mode, hella sexy model and I don't like the FW one.

He's good too, the -1BS makes squads surprisingly tanks and the stare makes him a beast in ZM, especially against mech and other low-I units

>>53288652
Yeah, I was thinking that since I have a spare HQ slot I could pick up Illuminator Szeras or something similar and make a crawling brain-in-a-jar. Since all the powers are used in different phases, can he just keep casting all of them? Might stick him with the Myrmidon squad since I have a spare slot in my Macrocarid, have him enhance their shooting a bit, or put him with the Enginseers and dedicate him to keeping the 1kSons down with double Perils, since it doesn't matter if the Enginseers are pinned right next to the tanks and they're a tad squishy.

>>53288746
Yeah, I don't see why not.

Aside from rampant shitposting, what has everyone been working on? I worked a bit more on my Rhino, been fiddling around with parts to put together a forge-lord/techmarine proxy, and letting a press-mould for a volkite charger cure overnight. I'm really hoping that works out, so I can convert volkite like a madman.

>>53287401

I have one from the two plastic contemptors I have.

>>53287867
Lightnings aren't high on my buy list, but I have the dreads. The only issue I have with dreads is that they don't take advantage of the NL bonuses while taking up elite choices from gets and termies.

>>53288926
>don't take advantage of the NL bonuses
You are allowed to take options that don't get bonuses with your particular legion, you know. I mean, most legions don't get bonuses for the vehicles in their armies, but players still take tanks and dreds because they're often damn good options.

>>53288998
Will FW ever give any semblance of LA rules to dreadnoughts, considering GW gave them Chapter Tactics? I say no, beyond stuff like chem/promethean flamers.

>>53289114
I don't understand why dreadnoughts don't have Legiones Astartes. It doesn't make any sense.

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>>53289141
>Annoyance intensifies

>>53287132
>Comes back 10k years later
>Complains that everybody ruined everything in his absence
>Nobody has the heart to tell him that its all his fault for reforming the Imperium poorly
>Hell, his super-primarch intellect didn't even notice that it might be bad for High Lords to hold multiple High Lord positions
>Despite him breaking the Army and Navy completely apart at all levels so nobody could command both like Horus did
Alpharius was right, Guilliman's a hack.

>>53288998

I know they're good, and I love contemptors, but my elites slot is painfully full. Unfortunately, I don't really have a choice unless I play PotL, which aside from getting made fun of here, means I can't pod in vets like I can in a Terror Assault.

>>53289141
I don't understand why vehicles don't have LA rules generally, they're still manned by astartes of the relevant legion after all. Obviously you couldn't just apply things as a broad-brush (e.g. iron hands with AV15 tanks and AV13 fliers would just be silly) but with a bit of work to decide which rules apply it'd be doable.

>>53279941
i want to fuck her

>>53289335
>Predator tanks with FnP to poison
Finally :^)

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What's the largest quantity of army possible to cram into entirely airborne transports or deepstrike straight in? I know that there's a ROW for it, but I kind of want to try SkyMech. Stormbird LoW, of course, then what, two Arvus Lighters with Hoplites or Myrmidons and a wing of Vulturax, with deepstriking Thallax? Or do I take MoR and trade a Fast Attack slot for another beefy flying Lord of War?

I wanted to try and portray an Ordo Reductor landing force, since they have to get down from orbit SOMEHOW, and how better than going full Landing at Point Rain?

>>53286235
In addition to what >>53286633 said, in MoM the Emperor talks almost exclusively through telepathy. I think the only word he actually says is "Magnus" in a sad voice when he ruins the Webway portal. Everything else is mind-to-mind, which probably means it gets heavily filtered by the receiver's biases.

Mostly he's talking to a Custode who thinks the primarchs are a giant mistake (half have gone bad at this point...) so there's your bias right there.

His habit of not speaking out loud may have something to do with making the Sisters silent.

>>53287324
Not really, no. The Emperor never explicitly says he intends to get rid of the Astartes, and it's hard to picture him getting rid of all of them since some seem useful in noncombat roles (mostly the UM, probably the AL as secret police, maybe some others).

What is canon is that a lot of marines thought that he would get rid of them. He did it to the Thunder Warriors, after all, and had a final goal that didn't necessarily require a standing army. Honestly, the hints suggest that it would've happened. But it's just hints.

>>53289740
See, if you had said Legiones forces, I'd say Stormbird, 3x Storm Eagles, and drop-pods and/or jump-packs for anything else. For Mech, I'd have to look at their list options since I have literally no clue about 'em and I don't have my books infront of me

>>53290266
>What is canon is that a lot of marines thought that he would get rid of them.
I'm not sure that many thought they'd be killed off. My impression is most either didn't think about it or assumed they'd fall in battle anyway. However, because certain high-ups on the traitor side (the mournival, for example) get featured in the narrative more than some other characters, it can seem like you hear those opinions a lot.

>>53290551
Well, I have the choice between Lightning Fighters, Vulturax (flying Castellax with 3-shot haywire and 4 Havoc Launcher shots each) or Arvus Lighters for Fast Attack, which are flying deepstriking Rhinos that I can use to drop Secutarii or Myrmidons. I could take normal FoC and go for one Stormbird, two Arvus with Secutarii and a Vulturax squad, or take Matrix of Ruin and lose a Fast Attack for another Lord of War to stick another Stormbird, Thunderhawk or 0-3 regular aircraft in.

>>53290566
You'd have to be pretty daft not to see it coming. It's like working for the Joker.
>every heist he kills off his entire crew one by one after they've completed their tasks
>I'm sure this time it will be different though

I run PotL and there is nothing you can do to stop me

>>53284460
that's pretty metal

>>53290977
>1 data point: the thunder warriors on terra
>enough to set a precedent
Nah.

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It doesn't matter whether the Emperor was going to cull the Astartes at the end of the Crusade or not...Because the Great Crusade NEVER ended!

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>>53291396
This, also, if the glorious Emperor's wish was to have every marine fall on his sword then they should only be happy to do so.

>>53291494
Also this as well, fellow anon ;^)
Can't post my "Look at those who will come AFTER us" Dorn quote

>>53291494
>and loyalists say Chaosfags are the cucks

>>53291681
Dying a clean death in an instant is better than slowly dying over millennia, followed by torment for eternity.

>>53291014
Nothing wrong with it. I think Armored Breakthrough generates more complaints.

>>53290566
That's a good point. We know Horus wondered about it, and then I was thinking of the Khan finding out what the Emperor was planning on plugging us into the Webway which would finally let him cull the Navigators and Astropaths. But hardly anyone else would know that.

>>53291681
I'm busy, will BTFO you later. Surprised that your daemon seeking assylum in your body lets you speak to loyalists,, though.

>>53289240
>Alpharius was right
but... victory

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Is there anybody who actually stands a chance against Lieutenant-Commander Fabius?

>>53292124
Think you want the 40k general thread there young fella me lad.

>>53292124
Who is he attacking?

What would be some good units for Maloghurst to join in beside Rapiers?

>>53292152
Cataphractii.

>>53292150
Some knight or maybe titan.

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>>53291494
>>53291548
>>53291722

You would burn a galaxy twice, only to surrender before the work is half done? Where are your great works, Astartes, other than the ashes of those you stamped under your boots? Where's your purpose, mutant, other than as a knife on your leader's belt?
Your corpses will cast no great shadow, I assure you that.

>>53292227
Those 40k fags are dumb. Instant Death becomes multiple wounds in 8E, just look at Force weapons. Fabius' knife deals D3 damage or something, hardly a threat against Knights. Dumbs.

>>53292252
>You would burn a galaxy twice, only to surrender before the work is half done?
If the Emperor willed it.
>Where are your great works, Astartes, other than the ashes of those you stamped under your boots?
My works are nothing but cleaning the slate for a new age
>Where's your purpose, mutant, other than as a knife on your leader's belt?
None, it has never been otherwise, and all I could have hoped for, Imperator Vult, scum.

I'm thinking about decorating my bases with Marines torn in half, lower body missing. Any tips/bits for guts spilling out, spinal colomn, broken bones, gore and stuff?

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>>53292252
>Where are your great works, Astartes
Remember when you lost contact with ALL the worlds in your order and suddenly Terra isn't your playground anymore but a colossus that wishes you join it in the unification of Mankind and that it will help you become great again and recover all the knowledge you lost if only you were to function as mechanics while Terra will provide soldiers to the cause, and suddenly an alliance of two worlds becomes a million planets?
Yes, there it is.
And no corpse casts a shadow, stupid. They're supposed to stay close to the ground, under it or like ash.

>>53292401
Then you barely count as men, let alone one who professes to be above us. At least those abominations of the Cybernetica accept their role as living weapons. I assure you, Terra could accomplish much the same with a few billions of battle Servitors.

>>53292573

I was not asking about the great works of our union, nor those of your leader. Those are self-evident. What have you wrought that would earn you the meanest memory in the Temple of All Knowledge, slave? You would have your legacy as empty suits and scorched worlds while better men rebuild from your folly.

Also, that was precisely the point about the corpses. It's generally more impressive to leave something more than a suicide note in another man's handwriting and a body.

(Is Perty pretty much objectively wrong here? I agree with him telling the chap to get to the point or fuck off, but it seems fairly clear that Machine Spirits are in fact a thing and the "Emps is the Machine God" thing is nowhere near consensus doctrine.)

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>>53292748
>At least those abominations of the Cybernetica accept their role as living weapons.
WE ARE HIS ENGINES OF WAR, HIS HAMMERS, BEATING OUT THE FABRIC OF EXISTENCE INTO A VESSEL FIT FOR MANKIND TO INHABIT
t. Ferrus aka the guy that gave us Terminator armour.
We don't do what we do in hopes someone records our deeds into some plate to be admired. We are not made for such concerns for heart and home. We are soldiers. There is the Emperor and there is War, nothing else.
Humanity could not rebuild under the yoke of xenos, non-compliants and other monsters.
The Reductors got it right, you know.
They do what's necessary to win, but they don't do it just because they want fame and be showered with honours. They do it because it must be done and only they can do it.
So do we.

On that excerpt, Magi were disagreeing with him and Tzurin says he agrees with Perturabo. When he asked why he was supporting him where his colleages would not (demonstrating he understands Binharic and speaks Lingua Technis), he says "the oils were right". And Perturabo was "come the fuck on, man!".
Then they go over the math again, correct a 0.000001 mistake and now it will work.

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>>53292401
>My works are nothing but cleaning the slate for a new age
Let it be so. Imperator Vult.

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Why. Why did I build this all in 24 hours.

I hate painting yellow.

>>53292573
Somebody needs to photoshop a fedora onto Perturabo.

>>53293278
These threads have been interesting lately. Geese, cassowaries, philosophy... it's nice to get back to the mundane, though.

What's your plan? White undercoat and shade/glaze your way there, or dark undercoat and build up 1000 thin layers like a well-crafted sword?

What was Angrons strength if he never received the nails? Horus has charisma, Pert was good at math, vulkan had his black smithing, ect ect

>>53293112
Ferrus Manus has to be my favorite primarch even though I collect Word Bearers. I have to paint some Iron Hands in the future.

>>53291738
The only thing with Armored Breakthrough is that you need to let your opponent know before hand. There's no point in playing a game if you're just going to just table him without any hope of a good game.

>>53293449
Like the Khan but more on foot, with more attacks (good for ZM, actually) and just as many smiles, with a friendly rivalry with Sanguinius and who actually tolerated Russ.
Can you imagine it, Angron happy outside of battle? It's like imagining adult Bruce Wayne with a wife and living parents.
I wonder what would change in that universe.

>>53293349
Probably going to go with bone spray paint from army painter, Agrax Earthsade mixed with Medium, edge highlight with Ushabti Bone, Lamenter Yellow in a dual wash, and then a gentle drybrush highlight of white to finish it.

I was tempted to do what I did for my Knights, which was Averland Sunset, layer up Yriel Yellow, wash with Reikland Fleshshade, do a thin layer of Yriel Yellow, and then highlight with Ushabti Bone, but thats a VERY LONG process.

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>>53287062
>only units with special rules can be held in reserves
>no scatter in the deep strike example they gave
Coils of the Hydra, and Alpha Legion as a result, just got slightly more useless. Awesome.

>>53293578
>implying fw won't give alpha legion special rules

IT'S ALL OVER! I NEVER VOTED FOR FORGE WORLD TO BE MY FATHER!

>>53293629
GAMES WORKSHOP BEST STEP-DAD!

>>53293578
The changes to reserves will require a full re-write of several rites of war. I mean, look at Orbital Assault. Don't worry, it sounds like FW is only going to move to 8th ed. once they've actually handled all of that.

>>53294003
Hope is the first step down the road to dissapointment.

>>53294270
Let's put it this way - if they half-ass it, we're not switching.

>>53292124
Well, Cawl has already completely superseded him in the field of making better Space Marines.

>>53287526

You should read the Trygon bit

So what's the preffered loadout on Tartaros Terminators? 2 Chainfists, Plasma Blaster, some power weapons, and a pair of Lightning Claws?

>>53295890
Comfiest loadout I've seen is Plasma Blaster, Power Sword, 2 pairs of Lightning Claws, and 2 Chainfists

>>53295890
>>53295942
With Combi-weapons not being single shot anymore, loadouts might change.

>>53296277
Sure, a squad of combi-missiles or really combi-anything will wreck house, however for balances sake I'd not be surprised if the stay 1-shot in 30k.

>>53296320
>Combi-grenade launchers
>With DA stasis grenades
Will we dodge the bullet?

>>53296361
Stasis Grenades don't stack so it really doesn't matter.

>>53285075
not a legitimate praetor, just a poor sod who happened to be one of the highest ranked in the shattered legion force at the time. of course this all just rumors up in the air, and he sure as hell aint speaking on the matter. just another mystery left unsolved in the fires of the heresy. still kinda concerned it might be a lil snowflake-y.

>>53298374
>>53298374
>>53298374

New bread