Pathfinder General /pfg/

Please stay positive about SoM. Be relentless in criticizing Ssalarn's idiocy and we could still make martials great again!

Right now I am building apps for Legacy of Fire, WWW, and Shards.

Are there any other non-lewd heavy games that are open for applications, besides celestial tournament?

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>>52340859
Hopefully, or not, if you don't like competition, Legacy of Blood and Fire will start picking up steam once PLD is settled and underway.

>>52340934
PLD closes for new apps tomorrow but it won't select until right before Legacy. We might just deal with PLD shilling, shipping, and shitting until it closes then salt until Legacy is forgotten.

Meanwhile, everyone forgets that RotRK is a thing.

>>52341002
I did forget. Though, probably a good sign for the game that we did, AM I RIGHT /pfg/?

>>52341002
Is it lewd? if it isn't I'll apply

>>52340859
Shitseeker fucking sucks and general threads are cancer. Enjoy your ban, trash

>>52341056
Thanks doc

>>52340934
I don't fucking want PLD rejects in LOBAF

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>>52340895

Ssalarn, in particular, seems particularly hostile to my own commentary.

Said commentary has been completely dismissed by Ssalarn, only to be reworded and rehashed by other people, prompting Ssalarn to think such to be great ideas.

>>52341105
Subtly acquiring sympathy with cute Awoos... diabolical.

>>52341105
Don't take this one personal, bud. He does that to everyone the first couple times around; it takes three or four tries to actually get it through his skull.

>>52341105
Back in arcforge he was none too fond of numerical examples.

I was greatly annoyed at the time.

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>>52341115
>>52341118

What I would really like for Ssalarn to fix, above all else, are:

1. The blacksmith being a horrifically overpowered class by Spheres of Might standards. It is completely and utterly overloaded: full BAB, good Fortitude and Will, 4 talents to start and 1 every level thereafter, significant attack/damage upgrades, major party buffs, huge crafting benefits, and so on and so forth.

2. The scholar being a near-worthless class. It has d6 HD, 1/2 BAB, 2 talents to start with and a new talent only every even-numbered level, and class features that are ultimately worse than the blacksmith's. The only things the scholar has going for it are the aspect infusion material imposition at 3rd level (all other material impositions are dreck), and blinding flashbangs at 7th-level. The class has nothing else in its favor.

3. The commander's secret ways at 7th-level, which is completely setting-breaking as established here: >>52327828

Something that the entirety of the Spheres of Might team should fix together is the supremacy of "do nothing but spam raw damage attack actions" builds. I have a charger build here >>52327660 and an unarmed build here >>52326072 that do nothing but spam the same attack over and over again in order to defeat enemies with great efficiency, though obviously, the charger is better at that.

>pfg teams up with 2hu against a common enemy

Pottery

>>52341183
Hey man, we might have a problem with 2hu's autism, but he serves a purpose; the guy is really impressive at breaking down top-end stuff, and that's damn near invaluable for explaining why some things in playtest are bullshit.

>>52341160
Hey, 2hu?

Thanks for just linking those instead of reposting them. I really do appreciate it.

>>52341160
The sweet fucking irony is that the Blacksmith and the Scholar are both Ssalarn classes. He defends the most overpowered and the most underpowered classes to the death at the same time.

>>52341209
>porkeye
>good at anything
No, he's a fucking moron who's attempts at "optimization" are fucking embarrassing garbage that only idiots who haven't actually read the material would think are good.

Fuck that stupid piece of shit

>>52341291
What are your thoughts on the SoM playtest, then?

>>52341291
>porkeye
Wow, that takes me back. It's like it's 2009 all over again and /tg/ is still looking fresh and new.

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I'm starting a PF game soon where I believe I'm a god when I'm really just some aasimar that isn't aware that his daylight ability comes from that, any advice on how to start a cult in PF?

>>52341317
Gonna be honest, anon, that seems really dumb and gimmicky.

As a GM, I'd also worry about you derailing my campaign and sidelining the other players for LOL GONNA START A CULT.

>>52341310
Utter dogshit, obviously

>>52341317
>Stand up from the table
>Tear up your character sheet
>Chant out "Eim leehving thah g'eym"
>Pack up your things and go home
That's how you start a cult.

>>52341327
Okay, but what specifically? At this point you're agreeing with 2hu.

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>>52341353
The only thing I agree with that namefagging piece of shit about is that he should kill himself

>>52341363
You seem angry, friend.

Show us on the doll where 2hu touched you.

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>>52341353
That's not intrinsically some sort of sin, anon.

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>>52341371

>>52341384
I know that, but for someone who's so worked up about 2hu being wrong and horrible, he sure seems to agree with him.

>>52341363
>namefagging
>someone who doesn't use a fucking name and is only identified by the images they post
That's not how it works, anon.

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>mfw PLD is at 29 apps and closing tonight
>mfw people are still shitting all over the DM

>>52341398
>being who you are
>not killing yourself
That's not how it works, anon

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>>52341408
That's some kinda poor-quality effort there, anon.

Step it up a little.

>>52341424
Probably false flagging.

>hurr all the people who complain about 2hu are rabid witch hunters

>>52341399
Just proves how thirsty pfg is for a game

>>52341449
Well, pathfinder is dying faster than wow in 2014, so...

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Got any character art you're just sort of hanging onto, waiting for the right moment?

>>52341449
How many apps does Shardwalkers have? LoBaiF? WWW? E8 Eberron?

>>52341480
Yep.

>>52341483
LoBaF has 17, with one or two pending. Some of those already put forth seem like they're pretty clear losers, though.

>>52341483
WWW already has 10 with weeks to go

I think it'll outstrip PLD

>>52341533
>the same 10 losers that apply to every game here
wow congrats bro you've really made it

>>52341399
>mfw everyone has forgotten that RotRK closes in two days.

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>>52341480
Yyyyyyuuuup.

>>52341545
>implying we're not all losers anyways

Why are you so salty anon

>>52341554
>mfw hard pass on that shit

>>52341556
Looks like shit, frankly

So; I wouldn't mind determining exactly what a '/pfg/' game is, so perhaps the next one I run could attract some of its benefits. Let me see what I've determined thus far.

Qualities
-Text based
-On roll20
-PBP-style application posting, in a forum
-Significant roleplaying depth promised- though I want to clarify about how this is done/promised
-Cute, lewd or comfy
-Sometimes a twist. 'Everyone is dragons', 'everyone is fluff', 'everyone is a princess'
-Usually some third party involved
-Extended recruitment time and vetting process

Benefits
-High-quality applications and characters
-Large numbers of applicants
-Much discussion on /pfg/
-Supposedly, high-quality roleplaying

Drawbacks
-Much discussion on /pfg/ (meming)
-High expectations
-Hard to vet characters fairly
-Harder to balance power level

Anything I'm missing?

>>52341586
cute, lewd, or comfy should be in drawbacks, also high percentage of bamboozles

>>52341586
No, that's exactly as reddit as expected, well done retard

>>52341625
the fuck does that mean?

>>52341628
we didit reddit!

>>52341628
>Large numbers of applicants
is in benefits

>Harder to balance power level
Bullshit. It's not harder, we're just fucking aware of the issue. Thinking the VoP Monk will be as powerful as the Cleric if the monk roleplays well is ignorant at best and delusional at worst.

>>52341586
Qualities:
Often people tend to go for higher powered campaigns, so 25PB or greater, 2/3 traits, a variety of 3PP allowed without question (PoW, SoP and others to taste) along with other restrictions such as no 9th level or equivalent casting, or gestalt rules.

Drawbacks: from player perspective many games never actually run. From a GM's perspective, you're playing with people from 4chan and there are notable number of players who can bail out without warning.

Really, the qualities you want are based around vetting people with well written backstories because they tend to have more roleplaying "depth" than people who don't, and people with long stories tend to get invested more in what they're characters are doing. Vetting helps a lot as well.

>>52341655
>picking a shitty gimmick class should be balanced with picking a core class
You are the problem. Make stupid decisions get stupid results.

>>52341657
Backstory length =/= backstory quality

>>52341688
That's reddit you moron not here.

>>52341696
There's two separate points there.
>people with well written backstories because they tend to have more roleplaying "depth" than people who don't

>people with long stories tend to get invested more in what they're characters are doing

The two are not equivalent.

>>52341688
Isn't monk core? As well as Cleric?

>>52339304
My very favorite Tiefling NPC channeled the tempestuous urges of the Abyss into her music.

>>52341777
horrible waste of digits on a shitty attempt at a fake cringe post

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>>52341777
Yeah, my tempestuous urges made her sing as well.

>>52341792
What's with the accusations today? We've got someone calling 2hu porkey (again), someone ranting that asking about /pfg/ game qualities is reddit, and now a comment on tieflings is getting stamped with "shitty attempt at fake cringe posts". Is there some sort of haphazard invasion happening? Did the something awful forums go down or something?

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>>52341846

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>>52341846
Some people can't get off without their drug.

>>52341912
>Some people can't get off without their drug.
>posted by a pedophile
Wow. Start using a trip so we can filter you.

>>52341926
You're baiting too hard, buddy. Tone it down a little.

>52341926
This is an intervention anon. It's for your own good.

>>52341932
eyol

>>52341846
I imagine it's probably just break for some highschoolers who are shitposting.

>>52341952
They raised a shitposter from cryosleep

>>52341793
>>52341792
You idiots can't even read. The Pitborn feel the powerful urge to destroy, to break and shatter. The book says so real clear-like. Don't make a scandal from your own misconceptions.

>>52341964
In at least one of those cases something flew over the anon's head

>>52341160
2hu, did you ever post the alchemy sphere nuke build?

I'm curious.

>>52341997
>hey guys here's my great build that doesn't actually function but in the fantasyland where I have friends they all really loved it

>>52342011
>hey guys, here's this build that shows how this 3pp supplement is utterly broken and should be nerfed
Hey Ssalarn.

>>52342026
>It w-works if you just convince your DM it works! It's all about how you twist the phrasing!
You people are retarded

>>52342026
You people should know you cant have both diverse sandbox system and have it be exploit proof at the same time

Have the cake and eat it too.

>>52342041
What phrasing was 2hu twisting in his SoM builds, shitposter-kun?
>>52342047
Oh, I know, but that's not an excuse to intentionally put out a product with glaring exploits.

>>52342026
Look at how improved alchemical fire and improved acid flask scale. Look at hybridization funnel (not from SoM, on SRD). Look at alchemical formulae and barrage spheres dedications. Smash it all together with Blacksmith chassis. Add 2+2.

>>52342041
>Not actually reading what you're criticizing
The majority of the problems touhou has brought up have nothing to do with the phrasing and are using the rules how they were intended.

>>52342047
Exploit proof? No.
Not having glaring easy exploits that anyone can pick up on and inadvertently convince GMs to ban the system? I god damn hope so.

>>52341093

Too late.

LOBAF's most popular character app is applying to get raped.

>>52342075

I've seen almost no discussion of lobaf characters other than gamze for being generic waifu bait + yugioh cards

>>52342070
Keep telling yourself that

>>52342100
Gamze is also Maice, aka femdom incarnate

>>52342171

I want to see Maice join a party where the party isn't going to deal with her domineering, but not in any sort of aggressive way.

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Today, we're reviewing the prettiest of prettyboys, Ferris Idelonia!

>Born to a dead god's priestess
>looked after all the poor people
>unfortunately the poor people are murderous thieves when under tome control
>dear mother dies, and he runs away while seeing a guy pick up a book
>he goes to other churches but gets stabbed for his troubles
>confronting his stabber, this holy boy nearly creams his pants as the thief begs for mercy. It's a holy sign, right?
>now he stalks the land, getting off on maledom and being a living holy symbol.

Wow, this one's a bit of a mess. I can see the purpose of the app, but from a technical perspective is poorly written. Tenses are all over the place, language is confusing and repeated words and phrases stand out. While I try not to comment too much on technical writing, the app for Ferris really could have used another look or review by the writer to see if it made sense.

From a backstory perspective Ferris seems to make a huge leap in realising a random guy with a tome was the mastermind behind a crazed mob and sudden undead outbursts, as opposed to a librarian or someone in the local reading club. And tome manifestations from what I understand really focus on more one person or so rather than a whole mob.

THE GOOD: There has been a distinct lack of strongly religious members in the applicants so far, and Ferris hits it nicely. A strong if twisted faith that clashes with the Amurabi believers and natural philosophy and that while is still mostly pure can easily go down dark roads. It could be a good story.

THE BAD: The character itself is not too bad, but the leadup to it is. The backstory is convoluted and poorly phrased and really does make the rest of it offputting. Really, that's the main flaw I see with this.

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Rolled 10 (1d11)

>>52342301
>Appeal: 4/5 Pretty boy Priest going full praise-the-lord with potential dominatrix attitude might work decently in the game.
>Backstory: 2/5 Let down by spelling errors and other technical flaws.
>Compatibility: 4/5 A decent chunk of utility and buffing but doesn't look like do much in a fights solo. Not too sure about character interactions currently.
>Setting accuracy 4/5 I was going to mark this down, but some of the more recent NPCs have shown that tome manifestations don't always end up with "and then she sprouted tentacles!" I'm still unsure whether a tome could affect a whole group so effectively, but the bad things happening does work out ok.
>Sexual potential: 3/5 There's some potential for both prettyboy shenanigans and pious fucking, but I'm not seeing a hugely greater appeal.

DEAD RELATIVES COUNT: 1! His mother is dead!

THINGS TO LOOK AT: At the very minimum, I'd have to say to look over the whole app and read it to yourself. There's a lot of potential but I just can't see past basic mistakes like spelling errors and poorly understandable phrasing.

Argh, too many new apps! I'm not going to be able to finish looking over all of them but will at least try to finish after the application deadline hits - there should be some time to update your apps before they're selected.

>>52342301
>>52342309
>Ferris
Nya.

>>52342301
Filtered

Is there a scan for monster hunter out yet?

>>52342321

I wish, but from what I've heard Paizo has proven they truly lost their way by utterly failing to capture what Monster Hunting even means.

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I could not help but notice that Spheres of Might's technician class offers the following:

>Inventions: Every technician knows how to create custom items, called inventions. Inventions could be anything from a simple improved crossbow, to a powerful and complex machine that to the uneducated appears to be magic. Inventions are finicky, improvised things that require constant tinkering and fixing, and there is a limit to how many a technician can maintain at any one time. A technician can have and maintain a maximum of 1 invention at 1st level, plus an additional invention at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter.

>Master Inventor: At 20th level, the technician gains a permanent +2 bonus to Intelligence, and increases his maximum number of inventions by 2.

This is one of the possible inventions:

>Powerful Round: The firearm is designed to manage more powerful shots than usual. Whenever the technician loads the firearm, he may choose to make the next shot powerful. The firearm’s damage die is increased by 2 steps. Firing a powerful round increases the firearm’s misfire chance by 2 for that attack roll. This may stack with an explosive round. Note: If you possess the chemistry insight, this improvement increases the misfire chance by 1 instead of 2.

>This improvement may be applied multiple times. The technician may increase the damage die of a shot by an additional 2 steps for every additional time powerful round is applied to the firearm. Apply the increase to misfire chance for every time this improvement is applied to a shot.

Misfire chance can be mitigated with the Equipment sphere's Firearm Fiend talent, as well as the (greater) reliable magic weapon special ability. A double hackbut starts at 2d12 damage (4d6 for size increase purposes, according to Paizo's FAQ), so a single purchase of powerful round already pushes damage up to 8d6.

>>52342321
Yes, but we're not talking about it.
>Monster hunter book
>nothing for Ranger or Slayer

>>52342255

Same. I'd love to see her in puella nonlewd version, if vult isn't going to bitch out on that.

Mostly because people wouldn't have an excuse to take her shit, whereas in a rape game they'll just roll over, spread their legs, and take it.

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>>52342332

While we are at it, we should also look into the Sniping sphere:
>Deadly Shot: Whenever you use the attack action to attack an enemy with a ranged weapon, you may expend your martial focus to roll your weapon’s damage dice twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. You must choose whether or not to use this ability before you know the results of the triggering attack roll. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total. For every 4 points of base attack bonus you possess, you may roll your damage dice an additional time. This stacks with similar effects, such as the Vital Strike feat.

Along with the Combat Sphere Specialization feat:
>Combat Sphere Specialization (Combat)
>Prerequisite: 1 or more combat spheres.
>Benefit: Select one combat sphere you possess, you treat your base attack bonus as 1 higher for the purposes of its effects, but not for attacks made with talents from that sphere. At 5th level and every 4 levels afterwards, the chosen sphere’s base attack bonus is treated as an additional 1 higher, although the sphere’s effective base attack bonus cannot be higher than your character level.
>Special: You may select this feat multiple times, each time selecting a different sphere.

Can anyone else see where this is going? While we could bring in Spheres of Power and its Encompassing Light and Glory magic talents for even more degenerate damage, let us keep this thought experiment self-contained to Spheres of Might for now.

>>52342332
Get the fuck out you autistic piece of shit

>>52342336
Fuck off porkeye

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>>52342336
>>52342332

2hu, your mastery of the system is undisputed, and it is because of this I want to ask.

How could I make the best ranged sneak attack character, assuming 3pp is not allowed and the character class is Slayer?

>>52342339
>>52342344
>Near exactly 1 minute apart

Amazing.

>>52342333

Ranger and Slayer don't need Monster Hunting archetypes because they're already monster hunting classes!

Like, what do you expect? A Slayer archetype that gives ranged sneak attack bonuses and Knowledge (Nature) as a class skill?

2hu and his autistic fellow 2hu poster defense force won't stop talking about SoM on the discord

Do they even sleep?

>>52342332
>>52342336
>even more degenerate damage
Can we do this later?
Also, where's the potion throwing hybrid flask dude?

>>52342366
Would you prefer we switch talk back to PLD?
We can do that.

>>52342374

Hey, as a PLD shitposter, I would very much like to make Vult's life a living hell

>>52342374
Solid affirmative on that captain autism

>>52342363
Paizo, hire this man.

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>>52342363
>A Slayer archetype that gives ranged sneak attack bonuses

>mfw this could be a thing
>mfw it isn't

>>52342386
>>52342389
What's the perfect lewd scene you think each Puella should be forced into?

>>52342301
i want to ride the ferris wheel

>>52342409

As a nerd who took Latin in High School, seeing you say Puella like that will never not make me giggle.

>>52342436
Does puella mean anything other than shoujo?

>>52342452
It also means une fille.

>>52342436
What's it to you, little puellula?

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>>52342332
>>52342336

Could someone please go over my numbers to see if I have calculated everything correctly?

• 3rd-level technician with double hackbut: 8d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot: 16d6 damage)

• 4th-level technician with double hackbut: 8d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization: 24d6 damage)

• 5th-level technician with double hackbut: 16d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization: 48d6 damage)

• 8th-level technician with double hackbut: 16d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Vital Strike via retraining: 80d6 damage)

• 9th-level technician with double hackbut: 32d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Vital Strike via retraining: 160d6 damage)

• 12th-level technician with double hackbut: 32d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Vital Strike via retraining: 192d6 damage)

• 13th-level technician with double hackbut: 64d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Vital Strike via retraining: 384d6 damage)

• 15th-level technician with double hackbut: 64d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Improved Vital Strike: 448d6 damage)

• 16th-level technician with double hackbut: 64d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Improved Vital Strike: 512d6 damage)

• 17th-level technician with double hackbut: 128d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Improved Vital Strike: 1,024d6 damage)

• 20th-level technician with double hackbut (capstone): 512d6 base damage (Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Improved Vital Strike: 4,608d6 damage)

4,608d6 is an average of 16,128 damage. If we found a way to squeeze in actual size increases, such as Encompassing Light, this damage would swell even higher.

>>52342452

Pretty much, Puella means "little girl" just like Puer means "little boy."

Here's a little tangential lesson: The Latin word for slave is "Servus", but the Latin word for *female* slave is "Ancilla."

>>52342460
Looks fucking retarded just like you, porkeye.

Why are we calling 2hu porkeye now?

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>>52342460
Good god. Even keeping this to shit like muskets or rifles doesn't really reduce the overwhelming damage this does. Woe betide you should you get a crit with it, since you're almost guaranteed to be using it with a gun.

>>52342478
We're trying to shut down the discussion so we can stop talking about the mechanics of the new interesting content and go back to gossiping like retarded tweens about the characters and players in the ongoing /pfg/ games.

>>52342460
Spheres of might seems balanced guis.

>>52342478
Pretty sure it's just one guy attempting to abuse the anonymity of 4chan to not look like a witch-hunting dweeb

>>52342494
>actually believing this low IQ autist
How fucking new can you be?

>>52342478
It's a thing from years and years back, back when people really started getting hateboners for 2hu. Either someone took it up for whatever reason or the person who originally started it finally got around their ban.

>>52342504
2hu is many things, yes, but one thing he is actually consistently good at is insane levels of optimization

For this alone, he is valuable to /pfg/. Even if i wouldn't want to GM for him or play with him, his high optimization autism actually helps the rest of us understand shit.

>>52342504
>claiming that it's lies despite the math and sources being freely available
How fucking dense can you be?

>>52342493

It's so wearying to do this when pfg doesn't seem to have the focus for weekly games and plays biweekly memes.

That being said, this summer is gonna be hell when everyone gets free time

>>52342512
No, he isn't.

>>52342460
i think the funniest part here is that an 8th level technician is dealing damage on par with a CRITICAL HIT Caster level 20 Disintegrate.

>>52342512
>>52342514
Such a lust for (You)s!

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>>52342460

Just for theorycrafting purposes, let us say that this 20th-level technician has an allied 15th-level or so spherecaster kind enough to cast Size Change to make the technician Huge, and Encompassing Light at caster level 20th for another +3 size categories of damage.

That is +5 size categories of damage.

512d6 -> 768d6 -> 1,024d6 -> 1,536d6 -> 2,048d6 -> 3,072d6

On Sniping's deadly shot with Combat Sphere Specialization and Improved Vital Strike, that 3,072d6 goes up to 27,648d6 damage (average 96,768 damage). I have to wonder how large a crater that will create if fired at the ground.

>>52342541
No matter how mad you get it doesn't actually work, idiot.

>>52342460
Who the fuck uses a double hackbutt?

Other than that, this DOES need to be looked at.

>>52342545
explain how it doesn't work

>>52342545
Provide proof that it doesn't work. Otherwise you're blowing air out of your ass.

>>52342541
Assuming you shoot down into solid stone?

6451 inches on average straight down.

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>>52342562
>>52342564

>>52342574
Cool, thanks for your help.

>>52342574
Oh yeah, you're that guy. Never mind then.

You're not even making sense. We're in denial that a rule isn't unbalanced?

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>>52342460

One solution I can see here is a complete revamp of the technician's powerful round invention, perhaps something similar to Sniping's deadly shot or Vital Strike. Can anyone else think of other solutions?

>>52342332
>>52342336
>>52342460
USE
FUCKING
PASTEBIN

>>52342349
Sniper archetype for Slayer broski
>At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon’s first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper’s presence.
If you also grab Signature Skill for Stealth, at level 5 the penalty for sniping is reduced by 10. If you grab the Stealthy Sniper advanced Rogue talent from the Slayer talents your total penalty would be 0, which would let you snipe pretty much as much as you want. You'd also probably want to look into Vital Strike and other effects that'll boost the damage of a single attack, since you're not getting multiple hits off until level 15 or you grab Greater Invisibility from a source.

>>52342574
Oh its you again.

>>52342478
I think porkeye was some guy regularly hating on 2hu on WotC boards way back. No idea why this guy calls 2hu that but he's obviously shitposting.

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>>52342574
You're just making yourself look like a moron, dude. Should probably clean that up before someone chooses to ban you.

>>52342590
A rule for playtest material no less.

>>52342591
Make the misfire chance also exponential and make it deal damage to you if it does. You can get to silly levels of damage but it's too risky to try.

>>52342614
>oh boy you can choose between doing competent damage or fucking killing yourself
How about just bringing the numbers back down to sanity?

>>52342545
Hey man, you figured out how to one round the tarrasque as a level 1 commoner yet?

>>52342624
whoa whoa, thats madness.

>>52342591
Easiest strategy I can see is just making it not stack with itself, or at least not so hard.

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>>52342541

Also, just for reference, there is this talent under Sniping to deal full damage to objects with ranged weapons:

>Breaking Barrage
>Whenever you deal damage to an object with a ranged weapon, you ignore an amount of hardness equal to your base attack bonus and deal additional damage equal to 1/2 your base attack bonus; in addition, your attack does full damage against objects.

>>52342614

I believe it is fully possible to eliminate all of the misfire chance using a greater reliable weapon and Combat Sphere Specialization (Equipment) for Firearm Fiend.

>>52342614
buy a cyclops helm

>>52342614
The problem there is that guns only explode when they're broken and misfire again, which is pretty easy to avoid as long as it's not a life-or-death situation where you absolutely HAVE to use the broken gun.

>>52342624
Yes, it is probably better to nix it entirely. I just thought it would be funnier to allow for some truly outrageous damage but at a cost of it blowing in your face.

>>52342649
You don't even need to nix it. Just get rid of the stacking with itself clause or limit how many times it can be taken.

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>>52342349

>2hu, your mastery of the system is undisputed

Oh, no; it is very hyperfocused. I would not know where to begin when constructing a 1pp-only martial, for instance.

This person has it right for your build, however: >>52342349

>>52342677

>2hu can't into non-touhou characters, his expertise only allows him to autism over archetypes that make cute characters


I wanna laugh, but I mostly feel really sorry for you.

How much of a failed man are you?

>>52342597
>talking about yourself in the third person
You really are fucking autistic porkeye

>>52342594

Oh gosh, that archetype is perfect...

... Except it replaces Tracking! Oh no!

>>52342695

Kek that's actually 2hu's online gf

>>52342745
Eh, just take Skill Focus. That'll match the bonus you would get until level 12.

>>52342751
>"g"f

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>mfw 2hu can take out roughly 4% of a neutronium golem's HP in one shot, even after DR

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>>52342751
No, I'm 2hu's online girlfriend!

>>52342782

Go away lily

>>52342780
>not being able to take out 100% of the neutronium golem's HP in one shot, even after DR

>>52342782

Does 2hu give up his e-boipucci

SoM guys were naive
They should had locked talents behind barriers

>>52342767

I guess you're right, combine Deadly Range with Sniper's Eye and you'll be a proper terror against anything that moves through the woods.

That does encourage me to ask, however; does Deadly Range only work for the first shot? It says the enemy discovers where you are when you fire, but if they lose you again than they're vulnerable to it again, yeah?

>>52342836
SoM guys were naive
They should have locked ssalarn behind barriers

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>>52342751
That's not true!

>>52342782
That's even less true!

>>52342852
The day you get permabanned will be the 2nd best day on /tg/

>>52342850
/pfg/ guys were naive
they should have locked PLD behind barriers.

>>52342336
Well it's the normal attack action so single shot, right?

You're only adding the weapon dice themselves and only as extra damage.

When you first get it, that's 2x
By 20th that's 6x

With combat sphere specialization you're only making sure you reach that on otherwise BAB 10 or 15s, as the effective base attack bonus cannot be higher than your character level.

Now, this is relevant to my interests so let's say I do it with a Graviton Cannon. 3d6. I'm not an idiot so let's make it large from powerful build, and augmented weaponry for 6d6 total.

With deadly aim and a +5 concussion weapon that's now, at most, 36d6+17, plus probably 3 weapon training I should be able to fit that in from somewhere.

Not good enough. Gonna need to up things to Armory of the Conqueror.

>>52342852

Will you be my gf?

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>>52342830
This E. Boi Pucci?

>>52342852
>>52342782
>>52342751
Now, now, we all know 2hu is pathfinder's battered wife, who is stuck in a loveless union together and receives physical and verbal abuse from both pathfinder and acquaintances and dreams of escape, but in the end keeps on crawling back.

One more complaint and I'm banning all 3pp

>>52342948
Fine. Shoot yourself in the foot like that.

>>52342948
Fuck you, powertripping shitlord

Letting PC's get weapons above large size was a fucking mistake.

>>52342948
Do it faggot

>>52342948
I- I hate you! HATE YOU ANON!

>>52342460
Your math is wrong. Quite wrong, and this had best not result in a nerf, because you will have become a paizo forumite from the kineticist days if things scale back based on those numbers.

It stacks, not MULTIPLIES with vital strike. It is very clearly extra-damage dice (like 'flaming' is, and thus not multiplied by criticals). Additionally the powerful-round seems to take over the "effective size increase" slot, so that's locked in too..

At 20th, with greater vital strike, combat specialization and sniping's deadly shot and the rounds upgrade on a large gun (powerful build or whatever):
2d12 = 4d6 for purposes of growth. 3 sizes up from this is 12d6. Deadly Shot with CSS brings this to 6x total I believe at 20th? So that's 72d6. Greater Vital Strike adds another 48d6.

That's 120d6 total, for an average of 420 damage. This is heavily optimized (you're adding in the vital strike chain after all) but will NOT even breach 450 unless you also have sneak attack, once the rest of the extra damage is added in like the weapon enchants, training and so on, as those all only apply once to this entire damage stack.

It's NOT 4608d6s.

>>52342844
Yeah, it only works for the first shot. Most DMs will probably let you get away with multiple shots if you snipe and stealth in between shots.

>>52343010
Oh gee porkeye proven wrong again, what a fucking moron.

>>52343021
what the fuck are you on.
Explain to me how my numbers are fucking wrong, or do you think VS multiplies extra damage?

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>>52343010

I am not entirely certain what the issue here is.


>Powerful Round: The firearm is designed to manage more powerful shots than usual. Whenever the technician loads the firearm, he may choose to make the next shot powerful. The firearm’s damage die is increased by 2 steps. Firing a powerful round increases the firearm’s misfire chance by 2 for that attack roll. This may stack with an explosive round. Note: If you possess the chemistry insight, this improvement increases the misfire chance by 1 instead of 2.

>This improvement may be applied multiple times. The technician may increase the damage die of a shot by an additional 2 steps for every additional time powerful round is applied to the firearm. Apply the increase to misfire chance for every time this improvement is applied to a shot.

7 iterations of powerful round is 14 increases in damage size.

2d12
2 increases: 8d6
4 increases: 16d6
6 increases: 32d6
8 increases: 64d6
10 increases: 128d6
12 increases: 256d6
14 increases: 512d6

An Improved Vital Strike triples that to 1,536d6.

Sniping at an effective BAB +20 adds 6 more instances of base damage, raising 1,536d6 to 4,608d6.

Is this incorrect?

>>52343053
>porkeye proves once again that autism is just rebranded retardation

>>52343010
>It is very clearly extra-damage dice
I'm actually not sure about that. If the line is
>The firearm’s damage die is increased by 2 steps
That seems to be the actual damage die going up. If you use Vital Strike with Gravity Bow, the damage dice from Gravity Bow still gets multiplied. This appears to be a similar effect.

>>52343073
>>52343010
If the rules are ambiguous, then they should be clarified.

>>52343084
I think everyone can agree on that.

>>52343021
>>52343070
Except for this faggot.

>>52343053

Where did you get those damage die values?

Isn't there a hard limit, considering that the table on pfsrd doesn't go past a certain limit?

Perhaps the most convenient patch is to put a hard cap on weapon size damage dice, since past a certain point things just get stupid.

>>52343053
Well for one thing that's 14 increases in the misfire chance. But that aside, it's a total of 11x the base damage with vital strike and sniping combined (x1 + 6x + 4x) so that should be 5632.

I did fail to notice that "may be applied multiple times", I apologize for that. That particular line would seem to be the problem though, as otherwise you'll be hard-pressed to break 500, which is downright tame at 20th.

>>52343073
Anon was talking about sniping. sniping's shot and vital strike add together.

>>52343098
There is no hard limit. The damage dice increase is really unintuitive and explained poorly in an FAQ, but it can go up infinitely, which is generally why there aren't many stacking effects.

http://www.tenebraemush.net/index.php/Damage_Dice_Progression_Chart

>>52342844
>It says the enemy discovers where you are when you fire, but if they lose you again than they're vulnerable to it again, yeah?
Nope. It requires the target to be "completely unaware of [your] presence", you have to be more than just hidden, they have to have no idea that you're in the area at all. If you shoot them and then hide, they're still aware of your presence, even if they don't know your exact location.

>>52343053
Wait, steps doesn't equal sizes. Steps is 2d6>2d8>3d6
Thusly, 2d12 (Equal 4d6) Goes to 6d6 w/2 increases, then 8d6 w/4, 12d6 w/6, 16d6 w/8, 24d6 w/10, 32d6 w/12, 48d6 w/14. So that makes for 152d6 w/Improved Vital Strike. Still 456d6 w/Sniping, tho.

>>52343098
No there isn't. In fact there's nothing that would be preventing a great wyrm from using a potion of growth, just that there's no 'term' for it. 3.5 dragonmech expanded the table to prevent "well this castle is colossal, and this small townhouse is also colossal, AND THIS WALKING FUCKING CITY is also colossal so they are exactly the same thing".

It had Colossal 1-5, and then Citymech Scale A through I believe H?

You really couldn't miss that last one, but then, you were probably fighting in its streets so really you're just shooting at the ground.

>here's my retarded build
>you're wrong
>NUH UH
>here's why you are wrong
>THE RULES NEED TO BE CLARIFIED
lol why is it that every single "optimizer" is a fucking moron who has clearly not read the material correctly?

>>52343137
2 steps is the same as an effective +1 size. So yes, 14 steps, 7 purchases, is same as 7 sizes. It's not 14 sizes up.

>>52343133
>>52343149

Why would any 3pp dev rely on a discarded, poorly worded subsystem like weapon size and not do the decent thing and just set the damage with flat numbers or damage dice?

There's no reason to use weapon sizes here.

>>52343123
Oh. Well, yeah, Sniping and Vital Strike add together. It's explicitly stated in the ability text.

>>52343168
because of the underlying system.

You set that damage and then you get trouble when someone grows and it doesn't grow with them, OR when it wasn't meant to be increased like that but still does because that's how the weapon dice work when you scale up, and now this ability no longer "eats up" the scaling side and can thus be added or worse yet multiplied to it.

>>52343168
because if i can't have the biggest lance then the other men will make fun of me

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>>52343112

7 iterations of powerful round, with the chemistry insight, is +7 misfire. That raises a double hackbut's misfire chance to 9.

A greater reliable weapon reduces that to 5, and Combat Sphere Specialization (Equipment) with Firearm Fiend reduces that to 0.

Furthermore, this talent exists under the Sniping sphere:
>Perfect Shot
>As long as your martial focus is dedicated to the Sniping sphere, you no longer automatically miss when rolling a natural 1 on a ranged attack roll; your attack must still hit the target’s AC as normal. At +10 base attack bonus, you can reroll a result of a 1 once per round.

Improved Vital Strike adds 2 instances of damage.
Sniping's deadly shot with an effective BAB +20 adds 6 instances of damage.

This is why the final result would be a total of 9 instances of base damage.

>>52343016
>>52343135

Well that's lame! It's almost like Paizo was acutely aware of Sniper Goggles and thought, "Well golly gee, if I gave the Slayer archetype this then the Sniper Goggles would be useless!"

Meanwhile, let me replace Tracking with an ability that is basically a free Far Shot feat.

>>52343215
The nice thing about Accuracy is that it stacks with Far Shot. Far Shot is a flat -1, Accuracy is 1/2. So, your base penalty is -2. You either have 0 ranged penalty (halved then Far Shot) or you have -1/2 range increments (Far Shot then halved). It's fully feasible to fire at targets accurately at half a mile away, provided you have some kind of scrying or means of magically seeing their location.

And then, since the perception DC to spot you at that range is in the hundreds, you're able to stealth and go again if you have Sniper Goggles.

>>52343193
BAB20 should be Greater though not Improved shouldn't it?

So 10 total then.

However 14 steps will not take you to 512d6s. It's 48.

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>>52343250

>BAB20 should be Greater though not Improved shouldn't it?

Only for the purposes of sphere abilities.

>However 14 steps will not take you to 512d6s. It's 48.

This is false. Every 2 steps is a doubling, and 2d12 counts as 4d6 on the chart.

>>52343248

So if I'm reading this right, Deadly Range is more or less a stopgap measure to sate your hunger for long-range destruction until you get Sniper Goggles?

Accuracy+Far Shot sounds great, though! Getting rid of Tracking might sting a bit (mostly because I'm playing a guy whose main shtick is Tracking) but the extra combat utility will be great.

Wow, this is the power of pathfinder general? It took you hours to figure out that a shitty build wouldn't work?

Bravo, retards. The only reason D&D appeals to you is that you are so stupid that you think it's more complicated than it really is.

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>>52343274

>>52343274

Sorry, most of us have jobs or school and can't be filipino NEET millionaires living in a mansion surrounded by battle maids thanks to our wealthy parents dying and leaving our autistic asses everything.

>>52343288
batman? is that you?

>>52343304

No, that is literally 2hu's backstory

>>52343272
Yeah, really Sniper Goggles are the best option for any ranged sneak attack build. The greater version even adds damage at any range.

There are a few other (cheaper) options, but they're not particularly great. First one that comes to mind is the Sniper Scope for crossbows, which *changes* your sneak attack range in specific increments. It's also for crossbows, which is itself a pretty big downside.

>>52343270
Every two SIZES is a doubling. That's four steps. A single step moves you between the d6 and d8 level.
1 step is this:
4d6>4d8>6d6>6d8...

Two steps seven times is this:
4d6>6d6>8d6>12d6>16d6>24d6>32d6>48d6

>>52343304
nope, that's 2hu's for reals origin story

>these last few Pene, Lysander and Drummond apps

Where did all these normals come from and why are they so much better at lewds then us?

>>52343358
Because we wouldn't be here if we were any good.

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>>52343318

Every two sizes is a doubling, yes.

>Powerful Round: The firearm is designed to manage more powerful shots than usual. Whenever the technician loads the firearm, he may choose to make the next shot powerful. The firearm’s damage die is increased by 2 steps. Firing a powerful round increases the firearm’s misfire chance by 2 for that attack roll. This may stack with an explosive round. Note: If you possess the chemistry insight, this improvement increases the misfire chance by 1 instead of 2.

>This improvement may be applied multiple times. The technician may increase the damage die of a shot by an additional 2 steps for every additional time powerful round is applied to the firearm. Apply the increase to misfire chance for every time this improvement is applied to a shot.

According to the FAQ:

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t3f
>If the size increases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and increase the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Small or lower (or is treated as Small or lower) or the initial damage is 1d6 or less, instead increase the damage by one step.

Therefore, a two-step increase is actually a four-step increase on the chart.

>>52343358

They probably came from f-list and they're better because they have more experience with noncon scenes.

>>52343308
.... I would kill to have that backstory.

My parents died because a detroit cop T-boned them running a red light because he was drunk. He was found to be innocent of an accident because he was performing his duties in good faith, which placed the blame insurance-wise on them. My sister and I got less than nothing and couldn't even contest it because we were minors.

Our parents are dead and all WE got for it was seeing the asshole who killed them walk in what was called a "victory for justice".

>>52343373
>retard won't admit he's wrong
It's one thing to make a mistake, it's another thing to howl on and on about how your mistake isn't a mistake. Shut the fuck up already, dumbass.

>>52343373
It doesn't increase two sizes, it increases two damage dice. Which is 1 size increase. Which is approximately 1 1/2 an increase.

>The firearm’s damage die is increased by 2 steps.

>>52343373
The SIZE increases by two steps when size goes up.

Powerful Round directly increases by two steps.

Not two sizes. the damage die by two steps.

It's an "effective size increase" per purchase.

>>52343388
Cute roleplaying, retard.

>>52343402
Fuck you and your fucking maids, asshole.
My neighbor's a goddamn crackhouse.

>>52343373
>Therefore, a two-step increase is actually a four-step increase on the chart.
No, two increases in size is a four-step increase on the chart. Powerful Round does not increase the weapon's effective size, it specifically says that it increases the damage by two steps. Not two sizes, two steps. Not four steps, two steps.

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If I were only going to allow one out of PoW, DSP Psionics, and Spheres in a game alongside most 1PP content, which one would be the most FUN?

>>52343358

It's because they're actual women

>>52343424
PoW, imo

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>>52343392
>>52343401

I think I see the issue here. There are two definitions of "step": "size step" and "step on the FAQ's chart," and it is unclear as to what powerful rounds is actually referring to.

>>52343373
>increase the damage by two steps
>Therefore, a two-step increase is actually a four-step increase on the chart.
No, that means two steps on the chart. If you start with a 2d6 Medium Greatsword, it increases to a 3d6 Large Greatsword. This is consistent with examples in the rules. It does NOT become 4d6.

If it was two SIZE increases then yes, that would double it, but it's not. It's two STEP increases.

I remember lead blades, impact and vital strike no tstacking.

>>52343424
.... Depends on what the 1pp material used would be.

Psionics is a much softer touch on your campaign than the vancian spell lists and capability-growth. Combined with the rangers and paladins and all that, your "casters" are suddenly way less broken. The other psi classes like living legend soulknives and aegis are totally way up there with those other Tier 3 classes nowadays as well.

SoP can handle itself well there as well.

If you've got full casters wanting to do more than blast?, Then the PoW stuff can keep up with them at least in combat and in basic utilities.

>>52343445

KEK

2hu's esl status is literally the issue here

>>52343424
I've gotta say, I'd be fine with a game with either 1pp + PoW or 1pp + Spheres. Whichever I'm using I'd ban T1 and soft ban T2.

>>52343445
Well, that's a misreading on your part actually. Powerful Rounds says steps, referring to steps on the chart. It's quite clear to the rest of us. The Size Chart is what's used, yes, but the size increases themselves tell you that a size-up is two steps on that table not just one.

So, a size up AND powerful rounds are BOTH the same thing: Two steps up on that table.

>>52343445
>and it is unclear as to what powerful rounds is actually referring to.
No, it's not. Powerful Rounds doesn't mention size at all, therefore it's not a size increase. There is no reason to believe it's referencing size increases when it says nothing about size.

>>52343424
>If you replace Vancian with SoP magic? Decent choice
>If you just want to slap cool shit on martials, but also retool some encounters to deal with the shifts and trust your players to not be huge faggots? PoW
>If you just want to play 1pp but with more stuff, Psionics

>>52343424
PoW would be the most FUN, but I think I'd rather allow Spheres of Power and ban vancian.

>>52343374
>tfw everyone in my game's into noncon
>just wanna do a sweet romantic consensual forbidden love scene
>unless you're clubbing her in the side of the head with a crowbar and yelling how much of a dirty slut who loves old man dick she is, they think it's too boring.
>turn into the only person in the lewd game who's actually good at combat, finish shit quick so they can fuck off and get back to ERPing
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

>>52343445
>more damage control
Just continuing to prove that minmaxers are as stupid as they are unbearable.

>>52343467
Pretty sure 2hu is a native english speaker.

Also: way to change up your insults when given new info, I can really appreciate that

>>52343358
I don't really think any of the normie profiles are that good under examination

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>>52343467
>>52343478
>>52343482

It seems that there is actually a third type of step: natural attack damage step.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/improved-natural-attack/
>The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.

Do any Paizo mechanics refer to "damage steps" as in "steps on the chart"? I am sincerely curious on this matter.

>>52343439
What's your reasoning? Do you think PoW is better balanced than the other two, or just plainly more enjoyable? Have you played with all of them before?

>>52343463
>>52343488
So basically, if full casters exist, make sure PoW martials exist. Otherwise... It's just up in the air to your personal preference.

>>52343495

I know that feel so much. It's all about the setup and emotions for me even in ERP.

>>52343502

He's a flip, don't they speak tagalog or some shit

>>52343500
>people are only intelligent and tolerable when they limbless torsos with 3s in all stats who take all their levels in commoner and only take feats like monkey lunge

Fuck off, stormwind.

>>52343523
Played with Spheres and PoW, not psionics. Of the two, PoW is just a more fun experience. Spheres is fine, but it's also not as designed around letting everyone do cool shit.

>>52343543
Wow cute strawman you really destroyed it and your shit build is still non-functional

>>52343518
Monk. Warpriest.

>>52343543
Fuck off reverse stormwind

>>52343523
I mean, it all depends on your group. If you just want martials to be stronger, PoW is the obvious choice since it adds so many things. It fucks with build variety a little, IMO, but it's enough new shit that it shouldn't matter.

Your biggest issue will be going nobody immediately jumped on the overtuned bullshit parts.

>>52343545
>Spheres is fine, but it's also not as designed around letting everyone do cool shit.
That's why I'm waiting for the SoM playtest to finish up. Looks great so far, and I can't wait to try out a SoP/M only game.

To be fair, 2hu started all of this with "Can someone check my numbers."

>>52343563
To be fair, porkeye should have been banned years ago, but today is good

>>52343563

He only said that after 4 hours of posting angry logs of conversations where SoM devs politely tried to ignore his autistic flooding in the discord

>>52343518
Those steps are just regular size increases. One size increase is two steps on the FAQ table. Remember that if it's d6 or lower then making it increase by one size category is one step on the table.

>>52343523
Its imbalance comes in the form of too much damage too early in particular for those that focus on damage.

As you level that becomes less and less important (and we're talking most of the DPR issue is gone by like, level 3-4). But more importantly, what it DOES allow players to do is to take an otherwise support or utilitarian class that would suck balls in combat, and become decent there.

A Warsoul for example is a gigantic upgrade for the lowly soulknife (and especially so as it existed before auto-gifted-blade progression and before the living legend and psychic armory options). A Myrmidon is a better fighter in every way - good when the class was such trash until very recently (as in, like, until the newer options that came for it last year). A Warder is actually capable of "tanking" to a degree through judicious use of counters thanks to their boosted abilities at using them!

And, honestly? "they kill faster" is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things compared to "divination". The guys good at combat will solve combat the way the lockpicker solves noselocks.

>>52343563
I mean, him wanting to make sure the wording can't be misinterpret like this is a pretty good thing, but the attitude and such always make pfg REEEE at him. For good reason, granted, but we already know how hard it is to get things through to him.

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>>52343554

I do not see any references to damage steps in either class.

>>52343583
On the other hand, two wrongs make right thinking was never right.
"Because wizards!" was always shit thinking.

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Well, this thread hasn't been fun to read.

For a gestalt with a mid-sphere caster, would a bushi warlord or a bushi+brutal slayer stalker be better for a high diplomacy, high damage, with decent utility?

>>52343525
There's little step-up and even less emotion with these peeps.

>>52343608
Doesn't Warlord use charisma as its initiating stat? Go with that if you're gonna diplomacy.

>>52343605
>hey, what's balanced about being vastly superior to paizo martials in every respect while also being able to delete encounters nonstop?
>wizards exist

>>52343588
That's okay because:
>A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons

And they have their own starting table.

So, what you do is you take that table entry, and then treat it as a manufactured weapon of those dice and pre-existing size.

So, a Large level 12 monk is wieling a 3d6 manufactured weapon equivalent to a large greatsword, and I really need to start using that as a euphemism when in character.

>>52343608
It's strange, here we are actually discussing the game and instead I wish we'd gotten a PLD thread instead.

got elected to dm on short notice. is there a dm page i can look at for quick tips and most useful info? maybe a page of generic enemies? i think i have the books but ill need to check my back up drive.

>>52343608
What's that wolf doing here?

>>52343605
It may not be right, but it's already in the system, in fact part of the core rules, so you're already playing with them, so the only other solution is to play something else.

Not that we shouldn't ALL be playing something else, mind you.

>>52343642
As far as enemies go I just use the SRD and browse enemies by CR.

>>52343611

That's sad. It's the reason I stopped ERP and moved primarily into tabletop in general.

I just joined a lewdgame recently, first time doing anything lewd in like 7 years.

I'm hoping things aren't bad.

I hope things look up for you!

Or maybe, if you shared your discord, we could get along?

>>52343642
jesus christ I am so sorry.

is there any way you can make it not pathfinder at all?

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>>52343640
I wouldn't call the autism about damage die, or the autism about autists discussing the game.

>>52343629
It does, but I was potentially going to use incanter 1 to get the conversion domain.

>>52343648
It's a pumpkin. Did you not read the filename?

>>52343648
I see no wolf there. How dare you accuse that pumpkin of being a wolf in squash clothing?

>>52343635
>What's balanced about being vastly superior to shit like monk, fighter, rogue, or swashbuckler?

A surprising amount of things, actually.

>>52342402
You know there are slayer and rogue talents that do this already right?

>>52343545
That's the impression I've had so far. I've had a small amount of experience with each of the three separately, all from games that never got more than a handful of sessions. The impression I personally got was... Well, mostly that I just didn't especially like Spheres. It's been a long time and I can't really remember the specifics, but I do recall none of the classes standing out that much and overall the material just didn't click well with me. Psionics were fine, I like them thematically but I also like to keep them distinct from magic by not have transparency and everybody always told me I'm making a huge mistake. PoW I agree just seems fun, because it makes people more badass.

In all honesty, I don't have problems with using 3PP so much as I have a problem with using TOO MUCH 3PP. I want to introduce some 3PP stuff but because I don't want to overwhelm myself or my players with too much new shit, I want to limit things to just one set of 3PP and am trying to figure out what would be best.

>>52343583
I tend to start games around level 3-5 anyway, so it's good to know I would probably be bypassing that problem.

>>52343605
I don't really like the idea of adding other content to replace wizards and other full casters. They might be able to warp a campaign with their presence, especially at high levels, but that's a thing that it feels like you should be able to do. As long as things don't get heavily abused to the determent of everybody's enjoyment of the game, I don't really mind having a full caster PC running around in an otherwise martial party.

>>52343651
Well yeah. Why haven't people moved on.
Why isn't there a competition to Pathfinder if the balance issues really were such a sticking point.

And kinda like with MTG, very few people actually put so much time and obsession into analysing the product to find those flaws. Not everyone even read a guide.

>>52342591

Man, Vital Strike has been the bane of my fucking existence in this game.

I was suckered into building around it with my first character because my group was convinced it was a really good feat, and my GM continues to think Vital Strike is a totally viable build-around technique and making it any better than it is, such as allowing it to be used with Spring Attack, would unbalance things.

Now SoM is coming, and I see interesting concepts there if some things are adjusted or nipped in the bud, but FUCKING Vital Strike is there again to loom over any nice attack action ability.

>>52343525
But what if I'm into both noncon AND emotions? What then?

>>52343697
Balance is actually the biggest argument made by people who move to 5e. Most remaining PF players accept play tiers and self-moderate.

>>52343635
In my opinion, invalidating those 1pp martials is a good thing. They require too much work to get off the ground and not fall in a trap. They have little narrative power outside of 4+int skills on a non-int class, with very little utility from class features. And tactically, they have more or less two/three options: Full attack +5ft step, Charge+potentially pounce, move+standard+maybe vital strike.

They're boring, samey, and with little impact. It's good that PoW deletes those classes.

>>52343709

Then you can play a scene where the character's trust of another is betrayed when they defile him or her during a moment of vulnerability!

>>52343712
Not my experience.
Like real life people I talk to prefer 5th ed because it killed all the option tinkering and finding the best numbers.

I respect 2hu in that he actually does read all the books and every page with dedication. But very few people have time and energy to enjoy that. They just want something that WORKS.

>>52343690
Trick about PoW combatants: Well first off, players LIKE having things to beat on, but worthless mooks will probably run afoul of a mass-attack user (like say a shotgunner with silver crane by mid levels or just one applying searing break to his cones out), and "bosses" will be eaten alive in the same way a 1pp Barbarian pouncer, or a mounted charger (in those rare occasions where he actually gets to take to a FIELD on his mount, the poor thing) would decimate it.

Handfuls of "lieutenant" types with special tricks of their own (like Martial Training 1 offers in a single feat, very very good way of doing this) to outnumber them without being something that instadies to a single wide attack can be a good way to give them a challenge. Feel free to toss in the mooks and bosses too, of course, but WITH them not solo. PoW has slightly more methods to survive incoming full-attacks and the like anyways so it can actually help against the rocket-tag syndrome.

Other than that; encourage the players to take advantage of the damage upgrade (without screwing the over if they follow suit) by telling them it allows them to diversify their characters, to better focus on utility, adventuring skills, social crap and all that stuff they might have to give up to wield sword good on a core-only fighter.

>>52343656
Thanks for the kind words. I'm hoping I can get into a good game soon.

>>52343708
Vital Strike is pretty bad, but at least it's somewhat workable now. Not for damage, but there are a few feats that can trigger extra effects off of it.

>>52343712
I like 5e's overall balance, but that balance is only because it has no major differing options for classes, and feats are borked. Not to mention the whole low bonus numbers and advantage make the system really swingy to me. I dislike how a someone trained in a skill/action still has a good chance to be beaten out by a rando with a -1 to his roll.

>>52343708
VS is a piece of shit under most circumstances...

But, some math issues aside up there, 2hu was on the right path on how one needs to work their character out if one wishes to use vital strike.

Get that weapon BIG. Forget those little +3s to damage here and there, you get AN attack, it's not being multiplied. Make that weapon FUCKING BIG.

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Redpill me on Vital Strike and why it's so good, because I'm looking at it right now and rolling (4d6+12) doesn't look nearly as appealing as (2d6+12)+(2d6+12)

>>52343737
That's just normie speak for better balanced. Staying viable in Pathfinder is a fight, you can optimize in 5e but the difference between the perfect and the imperfect is unpronounced. Other issues not standing.

>>52343762
Vital strike with unchained monk is a thing of beauty.

>>52343772
You can move and do your full damage

>>52343721

I guess it depends on the level of noncon.

Im majorly into emotional bullying leading to consent. But I don't like raw, negative emotions.

>>52343758

That feel when you get lowkey rejected with kind words and won't ever know if you're in a lewdgame with a compatible person until it's too late to get out

>>52343775
It's the other issues that ruin it for me.

>>52343772
>he's never rolled 50d6 at once
Wow look at this pleb.
If you're a big guy Gorumite you can charge and vital strike.

>>52343750
>encourage the players to take advantage of the damage upgrade (without screwing the over if they follow suit) by telling them it allows them to diversify their characters
Actually, I might not have as much of an issue with things if people did that. Most of the time instead of "do comparable damage but also be good at other things" it's "use the free damage boosts to trivialize combat encounters and still suck shit at non-combat."

>>52343772
Trick build for weapons with big damage dice.
Pick up a double barreled shotgun and vital strike, fire with both barrels and get two hits of 2d8 doubled for 8d8 damage at level 6.

>>52343772
It's generally not so good but mobility and action economy can come in handy. Also certain builds can abuse it neatly, it's a feat that only exists for case abuse.

Vigilante can set up 1 standard and 2 vital strike/round at full BAB for example.

>>52343784
What does that do specifically?

>>52343772
The DM can no longer shut you down with stagger.

>>52343822
PoW doesn't have too many out of combat options actually, at least from maneuvers. The good bulk of strikes/boosts/counters are all damage, debuffs, or the occasional combat buff like haste.

>>52343825
Can't do that, double barrel and VS compete for the standard action post errata because Paizo hates you.

>>52343772

VS is bad unless you have a degenerate build or go mythic.

>>52343869
Right, but even feats and other stuff are basically your normal combat builds, but with maneuvers and such added on as well. Take the chargelancepounce Barbarian and throw in Primal Fury. That sort of thing.

>>52343870
How?!
>vital strike
>Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage.

>Shotgun, Double-Barreled
>This twin-barreled shotgun’s barrels can be fired independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action).

You're literally using the attack action - a standard action attack action called "the attack action" for firing with both barrels. It's literally what the vital strike is for!

>>52343662
nah. it was that or shadowrun. i could do sr but no one else wanted to so im stuck with pathfinder.

>>52343933
Oh, you're right. Disregard me then, I'm dumb.

>>52343655
>SRD
>CR
wassat?

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>>52341105
To be fair, you are, well, you.
You are very polarizing and aren't very personable at all. Hell, even though I agree with a lot of your criticism I still hate your guts and just about everything you stand for.

The problem is you have notoriety, which often evokes a gag reflex in other people that makes many who see your moments avatar spamming just want to ignore incompletely.

Granted, I'm not saying your wrong, just that many people just don't want to have to deal with you period, which hurts your own credibility and ability to communicate your concerns since most people will just filter out what you say as autistic screeching.

Combine that with the fact that Ssalarn is an ass anyway who doesn't take criticism well, and you've basically fucked yourself in the ass when it comes to critique due to your own virulently autistic reputation.

Sorry man, I know it sucks, but debs the breaks and sometimes you just have to accept the consequences of your own autism
t. A fellow literal autist who had to learn the hard way how to pretend to be normal and what happens when you inadvertently make a complete ass out of yourself

>>52343933
So what's the build here, Tiefling Scout Rogue with nonlethal large double-barreled shotguns with gravity bow on it and Sap Master/Adept?

>>52343350
Size steps and damage steps aren't the same thing, got FAQed

>>52343985
Why sap master? Sneak attack isn't modified by vital strike.

>>52343924
I'm saying there aren't the better utility options to take after reaching normal 1pp combat ability. The ones that do exist are largely stances which are limited and taken anyways. Flight, maybe a couple of new senses. The most unique thing is the incorporeal boost in Veiled Moon.

>>52343966
cool blog

>>52344013
Yeah, but it's more dice.

>>52344036
Dank shitposter mah dude

>>52343962
SRD: Reference Document for all pathfinder related materials. Essentially a giant cheat sheet.
CR: Holy shit if you don't know what this is already you're gonna have a bad time. CR is challenge rating, which tells you how tough an encounter is.

>>52344059
Consider me redpilled

>>52343962
>SRD
Go to d20pfsrd.com instead of buying the books.
It's got pretty much everything you need to play the game.
>CR
Search for Challenge Rating on the above site.

>>52344061
ok i know what a challenge rating is and how that works.
>>52344098
thanks.

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Tell me, how do I knock and throw people off of ledges or into stuff in PF?

Bullrush iirc specifically can't be used to Sparta people or throw them into hazards, I need some way to just knock people over into rivers and pits

>>52344138
Awesome Blow.

Next question!

>>52344138
strength test?

Are there any PoW maneuvers or stances that have more utility than Unbroken Stride? For a level 1 stance you get water walking, at-will spider climb at 5th, at-will air walking at 10th, and at-will flight at 15th.

>>52344138
>Bullrush iirc specifically can't be used to Sparta people or throw them into hazards, I need some way to just knock people over into rivers and pits

>An enemy being moved by a bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement unless you possess the Greater Bull Rush feat. You cannot bull rush a creature into a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle.

No, you just can't shove them into walls like some sort of invisibility cloak accident. You can shove people OFF things or into hazards fine, unless there's some bullshit errata or something.

Puellanalysis rankings so far:

Perseus and Andromeda: 12/25 (removed)
Taris: 18/25
Ricard: 9.9/25
Keli: 20/25
Lysander: 19/25
Sage: 21/25
Sonja: 16/25
Maice:17/25
Cashmere: 20/25
Lillian: 180/(15*head eaten) [[9/15 * 20/head eaten]]
Bon-bon: (11.5+??)/25
Drummond: 16/25
Sigmund: 18.5/25
Pene: 9/25
Ceola: 19/25
Ferris: 17/25

Will Sage win the Pistachio Lemon Dinner?

>>52344220

Keli dropped anyways so she's outta the running

Vult has been whining about nobody getting the tome fluff right and how saturday he's gonna REEE at players for revisions.

These ratings will all change.