Warhammer 40k general /40kg/

first for kayohs

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Help me improve my list please!

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TAU SHIT POSTING ENGAGE!

>RIPTIDES=TEQ
>Tau have hardly any ID
>One riptide per 500 points is balanced!
>I2

>>51797937
>tau are a melee race
>BS3

>>51797883

Any opinions on 3ed 40k?
I've got all the books from that edition, and when I compare them to modern 7e, it seems much easier and better balanced.

Also Orks are less shit.
They're still I2, but they're I4 on the charge, and they treat enemy armor saves better than +4 as just being 4+, among many other improvements.

>>51797968
Wasn't 3E so broken they had to release 3.5?

>>51797968
Careful with the CSM book, it is supposed to be the one was the most OP. It's really a different game for the most part though

I WELCOME EIGHTH EDITION/AGE OF THE EMPEROR

NUKE THIS PIECE OF SHIT GAME

>>51797985
Wasn't that just for having extra heavy supports and Imperial Guard artillery for Iron warriors?

That sounds fucking tame compared to today

>>51797975

Are you thinking of D&D?
3e 40k had some armies get second codex editions, but there was only ever 1 rulebook as far as I can tell.

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For the Prophet of the God of the Dead!

>>51798015
I'm probably thinking of the 3.5 guard codex.

I know very little about this game in general but can tau pathfinders fire their markerlights and carbines in the same shooting phase or are they purely a target acquisition unit? also what point values are the sunday battles for beginners?

>>51797985
>>51798013
Yeah Death Guard are probably worse than 3.5 Chaos.

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Dear Archons (and Taufags I guess),

I bought the SC! Dark Eldar box and my brother bought the SC! Tau box. I won't hold it against him, he genuinely likes them for the fluff and aesthetic and didn't realize they're cheesy.

I have two questions:
1. Do I have any chance?
2. Is there any way to have any chance?

By mutual agreement he said he won't take a Riptide or Stormsurge at any point without permission (he's going to buy the former to paint because he likes the model kek)

Sincerely,
Anon

PS. If it ever comes back in stock I'm hoping to buy Gangs of Commorragh because not only is one set of Reavers 75% off but the Hellions are free. However, they appear to be total shit. Has anyone ever had any success with them? If not, no worries, I just want to practice painting faces anyway and the models look okay

>>51798038
pathfinders can only shoot one or the other
one of the reasons they suck
also depends on the store youre going to what points they play

So when will GW get around to the Dark Mech codex? I want to ally in some 30k robots to my legion already.

>>51798038
They can only fire one gun, like most infantry. Carbines are only useful if you need to reposition, as you snapshot markerlights while moving.

>>51798047
Poison spam is actually good against suits and fire warriors.

You'll have trouble if he's a fag and brings Stormsurges (maybe Riptides too but I can't remember if they're poison immune).

>>51798038
1.Model can normally fire only a single weapon per shooting phase. It must have a special rule of somekind to fire more than one gun.

2.Anything from 200p kill teams to ~750p normal games.

>>51798047
You might be able to. The biggest thing is that markerlights will ignore cover, which you are very reliant on. You'll have an advantage in speed an melee though, meaning if you can quickly move up and take out his markerlights, he'll have a much harder time.

Hellions aren't that great. You're probably better modeling them as extra kabalites or counting them as Scourges.

>>51798047
tell him to play with less points
alternatively use nothing but infantry, tanks and no suits but stealth suits

>>51798059
Riptides aren't immune to poison, but with a 2+ armor save and FnP it isn't the best option.

>>51798090
True. DE can pump out a LOT of poison though.

>>51798095
they also have blasters, dark lances, rending and MCs of their own

>>51798095
Well, you still need 24 shots to get a single wound on average, and that's without Feel no Pain.

Shooting at Riptides tends to be a bit of a trap though if there's only one. Better to take out the objective holders, markerlights, and other units, then cling to cover against the BS 3 shots and blasts.

>>51798047

>hasn't even started playing yet
>already victimizing himself/whining and complaining about his brother's plastic dudes

>>51798013
>>51798043
By no means am I saying that it's OP compared to modern stuff, just stating that in that edition, Iron Warrior CSMs were considered top dog by a large enough margin that GW put out 3.5. And yah modern death guard is probably worse. But, the worst bit is how much more customizable chaos is as force with upgrades in the 3.0 codex than they are today.

>>51798047
Grab another Start collecting.

Put splinter racks on the Raiders and Splinter cannons on the Warriors, and drown the Crisis suits in poison.
Kit the reavers with caltrops and charge them into the Fire Warriors.

>>51798122
Oh wow, an army having options. That sounds like the worst

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What's everyone up to?

Just got done my base coats on this one.

>>51797933
Hydra's are for paupers roll with wyvern's instead. Also take out the conscripts, your army is shooting and sacrificing the BS is just worthless. Pack in a second platoon if you want. Also I'd put the heavy weapons teams in those infantry squads out as their own squad so they can attack other things other than what the infantry is shooting. Also the plasma cannon sponsons will be worthless given ordnance rules if I remember correctly the executioner falls into. If not disregard this part. Consider the eradicator variant if you still want the sponsons.

As for the rest of the list, idk. I like the Scions detachment. The psykers will be good for the most part and Saint Celestine is ok situationally, rather run more tanks than her though.

>>51798201
Looks really good

>>51798059
>>51798073

Thank you, anon. I'll keep that advice in mind. I hadn't thought about the whole reliant on markerlights thing.

>>51798089

He mostly wants to run Fire Warriors in those hover transport things with Crisis Suits AFAIK

>>51798129

I was trying to decide between that and just buying Gangs of Commorragh + 2 Venoms + another box of Warriors, which comes out to be $60~ CAD more but would give me more of an MSU sort of deal.

>>51798121

I was asking how hard I'm going to be raped, my blue friend. I've been lurking /40kg/ forever now and I assume all the Tau hate exists for a reason. If I came off as self-victimizing it wasn't intentional. I mostly just want to paint.

>>51798140
Might have misworded the last bit. More sad that as the game has gotten crazier with it's power level, the armies seem more bland and less varied in what players tend to bring. I love the 3.0 codices to bits with the amount of "your dudes" in them, whereas the newer codices do not allow for as much variance in a force. It sucks how little you can really change in a list and still put up enough of a challenge for a decent game

>>51798201
Working on Catachan Conscripts that are painted as Prisoners. Did 4 today.

I swear to all that is holy if the Tau win Fires of Cyraxus I'm burning the book.

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>>51798250
>Tau losing
lol

>>51798250
>imperial armour
>xenos having a straight loss

>>51798048
>>51798052
>>51798068
Thanks for your input, do you have any recommendations for a 200pt force? I am not really sure what I am doing and would hate to be a prick without knowing (I am reading the rule book but have no access to the codex for the time being)

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>>51797937

>Marine players jelly

>>51797883
Red Guard Anon, what was your list in that game against Chaos Marines?

I see some Lemans, a Chimera, some kind of makeshift tank.

>>51798332
>>51798340
Please anons I just want a straight Tau loss with no 'it was actually a trick all along and they really won' shit at the end. I'm getting tired of every one of their conflicts just being a redux of the zeist campaign.

>>51798353
If you don't get an answer, try over at >>51736405. Kill Team General spend a lot of time trying to figure out fun and balanced 200pt teams. It's kind of their dealio.

>>51798384
Dude, EVERYONE pulls the 'was actually tricky win' stuff. That's the only way GW knows how to write a 'thrilling' climax

>>51798250
it'll be like
>the tau were driven back after their assault, as they found the battle evolved into one of attrition and did not believe the war would end in a reasonable period of time, so they launched a last ditch assault in order to steal as many STCs as they can, and after successfully capturing several STCs, have managed to replicate several imperial weapons with technology they had not yet developed. Tau now have grave weapons on the XV9s and a new grav riptide variant is released.

>>51798051

There should be rules for Dark Mech. Currently we have a few generic (Imperial Militia and Warp Cults, Renegades and Heretics) lists but they're pretty underpowered and more flavorful than anything.

Dark Mechanicus should be rightfully frightening. Something much more Cronenberg than the AdMech's raygun gothic aesthetic.

>>51798447
I'd personally just like more ways to kit out vehicles and warpsmiths. The stuff is there, but it all feels too static to get across a dark admech force.

>>51798447
They should have a really body horror thing going on, like an army of obliterator style things. They even have their own big guy, Kelbor Hal, he could just be evil flesh mutant Belisarius Cawl.

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This is my 1850 Tau list. It's a Hunter Contingent with an Assigned Air Caste Asset auxiliary option.
Would you play against me?

>>51798388
Thanks mate, glad to see there is a scaled down version as my friends are pretty broke but very interested

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The hunt for feedback continues.

>>51798464
Yeah.

>>51798458
>>51798461

You'd imagine they'd be everything the AdMech aren't. They'd probably have a good deal of freaky shit that bends the rules like psi-tech and robotics that go way beyond even the AdMech's affinity for cybernetics. Probably robots meshed with Daemons, and flesh/robotic creatures bred en masse and sent out as cheap cannon fodder.

>>51798476
DAoT shit mixed with daemons.

>>51798476
They'd actually have to make them a full codex first instead of just one or two small mini-dexs.

>>51798447
>There should be rules for Dark Mech.
Guy you responded to here. Yeah there should be heaps of different options/designs and new tech and everything I've ever dreamed about, but its GW.

I really want to be able to field the options we have now, just with my legion. Tak on some renegade Magos already so I can field robots GW.

>>51798464
it's a pretty casual/low tier list. Tau aircraft are the worst flyers in the game when taken without a wing/formation.

>>51798476
They do have some of that already in the form of Daemon engines, and you could probably have Spawn or Possessed as weird robo monstrosities alongside Obliterators and Mutilators. It would just be nice to have more actual units focused on the task, or at least a way of strapping extra guns to things and making them more metal.

>>51798464
>tfw no updated DE models on TTS

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RGG, how did Ogryn do for you? I've only fielded Bullgryn, but I haven't used them enough to get a feel for them.

>>51798121
He got memed on too hard by /tg/

>>51798469
Nah senpai I feel you, I don't even play currently but am building up a couple of Kill Teams for the summer. It's a brilliant way to make the hobby more accessible because anything you use in KT can contribute towards the elite core of an army.

>>51798570
Meanwhile Tau finally got the Tiger Shark, so all that's left is the XV109 and the named Ethereals.

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>>51798209
How do the improvements look?

>>51798377
>unassembled, unpainted
sasuga

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ork player/painter here (mostly painter, if i'm being honest)
i've decided to take a break from da boyz and start a new army for shits and grins
i'm thinking of word bearers just cos i like their scheme, but i dunno. what do you think my next army should be?

>>51798640
Imo, drop the Vets for another Command squad so you can have 4 orders to give all of your heavy weapon squads ignore cover. You can even kit them out the same and lose no points.

>>http://comixcitytoo.com/warhammer-40k-escalation-rules-2016/

Want to start an Escalation League with my group. How would players who wanted to play Harlequins, Skittles, and Ynnari get into this when there isn't technically a CAD available to them.

The first two not having any HQ units and the latter not having a true CAD available.

Any answers would be appreciated. I would like to play clowns, but can see some snags in the beginning. Same with the Ynnari since there is no CAD units listed. The Reborn Warhost is considered a Decurion correct?

Cheers for any answers.

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Sup /tg/. I had my first 30k game today as a sort of test to get my feet wet with the ideas. I brought a proxy-list for what will be Chymeryae Legions, or basically having hideous, disgusting mutants shoved into power armour.

To make things simple, they actually kinda suck. I was underwhelmed by having a playstyle that more or less turns Legionnes Astartes into a baffling impression of Orks. I had 20-man blobs of infantry that had 100 attacks on the charge, but did absolutely terrible in practice.

But regardless, me and the guys have come up with some crazy ideas for Konverzuns. My best idea is actually to make my Marauder squad leaders by taking these Crypt Flayers, and converting them up to be horribly mutated space marine aspirants. I'll use greenstuff and a pin vise to add in plug-sockets all over their bodies, and paint the center torso as a Metallic-black to represent a Black Carapace. Then the entire rest of their body will be painted as having Flayed Skin, exactly like Video Related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq9e7aWO7TQ

>>51798663
He could always considering turning his allied detachment into a hellrain brigade formation though that requires a Taurox Prime.

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>>51798636
I just loaded up the game for the first time in a good while.
DAMN ALL THESE DATACARDS!

>>51798636
does this include the tigershark variants?
>>51798640
grenade launchers in infantry squads are kind of meh.
could do with more non-transport vehicles/flyers. I'd pick up more tanks and/or a valkyrie/vendetta/vulture for more armour. Some anti-air would be nice unless you list tailor.
those scions squads are suicide squads, give the tempestor primes plasma pistol.
Run the Ordo xenos inquisitor as Solomon Lok and slap him in with Celestine for more another Master Crafted power sword if you can.

>>51797933
Did you even read the requirements of Ministorum Delegation?

You don't need it anyway, she can be one of the HQ slots in the CAD you have there.

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>>51798698
>does this include the tigershark variants?
Just the AX-1-0, but I don't think anyone would care if you proxied the Fighter-Bomber with it.

>>51798656
if you're going to play a new army, I suggest picking one from the top tiers so that you have 1 army for hobbying and 1 for paying/waacing
I suggest 1 of the following
Eldar (though you are broken cheese)
Eldar corsairs (slightly less broken cheese)
Tau (Cheese in casual and strong in comp, though a bit overstated)
Daemons (Cheese if played right)
Space Marines (Certain formations are cheese)
Imperial Guard (Any flavour of IG is good and while not op, if played well can be. I suggest looking into dkok/elysians if you want some specialisation)
CSM (Some legions are op, some are trash)
Pick your army based on aesthetics and play style, ignore tg memes aside from eldar being op, which they are.

What chapters would be the most canon to ally with a Ynnari army?

>>51798735
the ax-1-0 is the only one worth taking, the other one is kind of useless, even though it is decent value for points. It doesn't even get any better than S7 ap3.

>>51798765
Ultramarines, considering they just fixed up gulliman

Is table top simulator worth it?

>>51798799
Get it when it's on sale. I got it when it was $10.

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>>51798213

Thanks

Here's an update. She's more or less finished at this point, but it's too dry atm to fix the small stuff.

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>>51798776

Yeah, I imagine that would pretty much solidify an alliance between the Smurfs and Elfs that only the direct command of Big E himself could break. Unless of course Roboute himself is an ungrateful fuck, a possibility with how temperamental the Primarchs can be.

I'm more interested in how the Imperium at large will treat, basically, the second most powerful being in the Imperium to the Emperor and his only remaining heir, who likely has an incredibly different view to what the Imperium should believe about the Corpse Emperor than the one they are fanatic about maintaining. I can see much of the Imperium declaring him a traitor even being who he is, or tainted.

But I can also see the Tau being brought into this alliance of Men and Elves they are creating.

>>51798799
Do you want to play fast, efficient games of 40k at any hour of the day from the comfort of your desk?
Then yeah. Pick it up on sale or from G2A to save up to $10.

>>51799018
>fast and efficient

I dunno dude, the amount of effort you have to put into moving shit takes up just as much time as a real game.

>>51799030
Maybe if it's your first few games. Once you've played enough, even moving through multi-floored ruins takes no time at all. It's a matter of getting used to the controls and how the models react to certain movements.

>>51799043
Played quite a few games, anything over 1000 points is gonna be pretty unplayable and take so much longer than a real game.

>>51798772
Fighter-Bomber is 520 points vs the AX-1's 660 points, and it comes with 14 Gun Drones that you can drop off wherever. That's 196 points of Drones, so you end up with a 324 point version of the old Barracuda that trades all its Burst Cannons for a Markerlight.

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>>51798201
Is that casca?

>>51798799
My friend and I got it so we can play more and we've been able to get a game every few weeks or so instead of meeting up once every 2-4 months to get a game in.

>>51799063
1850-point games normally take 2-3 hours for me depending on how competent my opponent is, which I'm pretty sure is how long a normal 1850 game takes. YMMV, I guess.

>>51798760
i like me some csm+daemons (and i already have some plaguebearer models from AoS)
are word bearers dogshit? i've always liked their evil cult schtick along with their color scheme

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>>51798377

>>51798201
Just built my GSC Scout Sentinels. Tough to give them personality, since it's all in the legs; but posing them like stalking predators a la Tyranids MCs & placing Rippers on the bases goes a long way.

IÄ! IÄ! DÆGONETH! HAIL THE SKY-MOTHER AND UNDER-FATHER!

>>51799101

I suppose with just the base coat, the face is dark enough, though a deldar model might be better for Casca

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I ordered a Tau Broadside the other day off Amazon. When I selected the item for purchase the box was the top graphic, but the order shows the box for the bottom graphic

My question is, is there any difference between the two? I'm under the impression that the bottom one was an earlier model and I just want to be sure the newer one isn't better in some way

>>51799173
The kit is the same. They just reboxed it to match the new default color scheme of the actual updated kits

>>51799173
You would know if it's the older Broadside. They look very different.

>>51799173
I think they are identical. The model itself is a relatively new model. Top is just a rebox.

now that GSC is a thing I wish they would make Arbites a thing. Judge Dredd: The Army would be awesome.

>>51799187
>>51799201
>>51799203

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting an inferior model

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>>51798683
I really liked the idea of the Hellrain Brigade, so I decided to roll with it.

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>tfw you want to do a Slaanesh army where the infantry is HR Geiger-esque, more so than it is already, and the bigger units are actual tentacle and monster rape scenarios as part of still fighting monsters.
>You could never field this army, or even let anyone but 4chan know it existed.

Life is suffering. I even have a small collection of overtly sexual and adult miniatures that would be perfect, including some actual sex scenes.

>tfw you will never build a possessed and oozing razorback, with a Daemonette finger/clawbanging a lady guardsman on the top of it, bound to the organic mass.

>>51799226

Honestly, I shouldn't have reread Berserk and then looked at Geiger art so soon after. It does terrible things to my imagination.

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Did some mathhammer on deldar shooting units. Basically I'm comparing the cost of the units to the wounds they score each volley, or Points per Wound. The less points it takes a unit to score a wound, the more desirable it is.

Some things to point out, I averaged blast hits to 2 on infantry and 1 for vehicles. Also, this is strictly comparing wounds within respective ranges and only wounds - move speed, survivability, etc. isn't accounted for. Lastly, the cells with unique colors are the top best choices. Even red is superior to the pale green/pale blue.

It should come as no real surprise, but our top TEQ and MEQ killer is the Disintegrator Ravager, and our top vehicle killer is Haywire Blasters. Respectful shoutout to the eternally lackluster Shredder and our stock splinter weapons for Kabalites and Scourges both.

>>51799294

This just looks sad

>>51799173
Actually, why are Tau clad in white now? I preferred the original color scheme.

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>>51799294
A-at least we're not Orks...

>>51799226
>>51799239
>Geiger
Most Slaaneshi stuff on the tabletop doesn't look like his art at all anyway.

>>51798876
WHat's your process?

>>51799415

On the one hand I'd love to see a chart like this >>51799294 for Orks.

On the other hand, I think it will merely confirm what we already know.

>>51799381
Well, without actually doing any similar comparisons with tau/scatterbikes, I'd predict our wound output is actually pretty on par with most armies. It's just that this is supported by T3, spiky flak armor, and AV10, which is why we really fall short.

>>51799294
>tfw Kabalites were once considered among the best troops choices in the game

>>51799398
Someone at Eavy Metal or whatever started doing Vior'la colors and it stuck. That's it.

>>51799437

How do you mean?

The face was painted bugmans glow, then, reaper flesh, washed fleshshade and touched up with flesh

The robes were reaper dragon red, Nuln oil, Khorne red, and wazdakka. I threw some flesh shade in there, too

The armor was simply leadbelcher, Nuln, and runefang

The gun was abaddon highlighted silver with the rest the same as the gun. The muzzle was a wash at the wip with weathered down Kantor blue and abaddon on the tip.

The hair is abaddon drybrushed with grey and lightly highlighted with the same grey. Astronomicon I think.

The brass is just that. Then highlighted with a mix of silver and brass.

Uhh. That might be all.

Daily reminder that blackshield can't take weapon upgrades and beacon angelis is shit.

https://mega.nz/#!9N1hySyD!uMZ_uIOgZpJ3pbzsZK_Uywkoa8wSMlhNee5Kvd4gQNA

Is this resource worth adding to the general?

>>51799294

Am I reading this wrong or is the Shredder actually pretty decent?

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I'm running a campaign for a gaming group and need feedback on the Victory system.

Format is based on 30k's Victory is Vengeance rules - 150pt HQ, 200-350pt of units, sliding scale VP.

Gist of Narrative Victory conditions:
> 3 player Imperium team (SM, Skitarii, GK+Inq) need to get a relic offworld
> 3 Chaos Players want to destroy the Imperials before they can do this

So it's basically ViV except I have 2 Xenos Players who want in:
> 1 Eldar Player wants them both stranded and fighting as long as possible
> 1 Ork Player is there to loot and collect skulls

The victory conditions I'm happy with are
>Imperials win if campaign points exceed 20 by December 31.
>Chaos wins if Imperials cannot meet this goal (chaos victories lower campaign score).

But the winning conditions for the Xenos are pretty WIP:
>Orks consider a win if they have more supply points, Character kills and IC kills than anyone else.
>Eldar victories move the scale towards 0. The Eldar consider a win if the final campaign score is between -5 to 5, and the Ork goal is not met.
Can you think of better goals for the Xenos players? Campaign motivations are up in the air at this point but the Imperium/Chaos teams don't want to ally with aliens.

Have the ruleset as thanks.

>>51799888
They can take power swords and the beacon is not a win in a box, it's a tool.

>>51799979
It is surprisingly decent. Until you slog one up 12" from your opponent and watch your tissue paper soldiers be charged and die instantly after they fire once.

Despite being a monofilament weapon without the Monofilament special rule, S6 Shred blast for 5pts is a solid weapon, but its main issue is that it is played in a way counter-intuitive to our army.

Judging by my performance in yesterday's game, I'm tempted to try out Ahriman. Now that his staff allows you to cast the same witchfire up to 3 times per turn, good rolls on powers may make him deadly as fuck.

Sucks shit he can't take a familiar though. Best way to run him if you're going to fire mindbullets?

>>51800028

It could make suicide Trueborn squads a lot cheaper... on the other hand, they'd also lose some of their usefulness. Plus I'm not sure "wounds per point" is the most effective metric on any army that tends to implode any time it doesn't absolutely and completely kill whatever's in range to shoot back, lel

I might bother building some Shredderborn out of my pile of discarded Shredders though. Or just adding a Shredder to Venom Warrior squads. Guess I'll try proxying it first though, was going to turn them into Blasters otherwise (thanks Blast Pistols and Reaver-mounted Blasters for being so useless!).

>>51799908
What is it?

Would putting Fire Dragons into a Venom actually do anything good for them as a unit?

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>>51800056
mini guide on the basics of play

>>51800052
>Plus I'm not sure "wounds per point" is the most effective metric on any army that tends to implode any time it doesn't absolutely and completely kill whatever's in range to shoot back, lel
Correct. That's why I disclaimed "this is strictly comparing wounds within respective ranges and only wounds - move speed, survivability, etc. isn't accounted for."

My conclusion from this is that for 5 pts, shredders are a great addition to our regular tax kabalites, but I'm still going to trust our heavy hitters to do their jobs. I'm particularly fond of ravagers parked 36" away whenever I get the chance.

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>>51799294
This is interesting, but from my experience of playing Dark Eldar, it undersells Kabalites by not factoring in their Raider and lumbering the anti-infantry unit with a Shredder. The Raider keeps them alive (so long as the opponent doesn't have Ignores Cover weapons) so they can whittle units down, or soften them up for your harder-hitting units to blow through in a turn, and Splinter Racks does notably increase their killing power.

We still aren't an amazing high-tier Codex and fold like laundry if the opponent brings ways to get around Jink saves, but I don't think DE are quite as bad as some people imagine.

8ed when. What are you expecting from new edition? I want heavy magic, biker, flyer, mc nerf and buff to walkers, tanks and assault armies. Also some restriction on how many units you can take, because they fucked army composition badly.

>>51800122
You snapshot when you jink btw.

>>51800132
>8ed when.
2030
>What are you expecting from new edition?
Holographic animated miniatures projected from officially sized bases with programmable colour schemes and magnetic coherency.

>>51800132
>Also some restriction on how many units you can take, because they fucked army composition badly.

There's going to be less restrictions on army composition. Think Ynnari or Castellans of the Imperium lists.

>>51800143
Not any more. They reversed that decision in the finalised FAQ.

>>51800143
Not him, but no, you don't. The official FAQ, when they finally posted it on the website, has returned jink to no longer snapping for passangers.

>>51800148
Find a tau player
>>51800151
Formations like demi company are good start. Atleast you have space marines in your space marine army.

>>51800165
>Find a tau player
Why? they can barely be bothered to do more than a basecoat at best.

If anything Knight players are the one that trick shit out.

>>51800132
>mc nerf

NO.

The base Monstrous Creature rules are fine. They aren't overpowered in the slightest. But they're balanced around them being T6 or so, with between three and five wounds and a 3+ save. Carnifexes, Talos', etc etc are not overpowered and don't need to be nerfed by attacking the underlying Monstrous Creature rules.

SPECIFIC monstrous creatures, notably the Tau suits and the Wraithknight (which is Gargantuan if we're being picky, and specifically just needs to be about 150 points more expensive) need to be nerfed. That's all.

>>51800156
>>51800162
Fucking gw re.

>>51800177
>Fucking GW, how dare they reverse a decision that rendered an already weak army completely unplayable

>>51800176
Should have specified, shit like flying psyker mc should be nerfed. I want to kill my self when i face flying iron arm dp.
Also the problem is, tanks have 3-4 hp, have damage table and can be one shoted. MC have 4+ wounds, doesn't have damage chart and you need very specific weapon to instakill it.

>>51800176
>SPECIFIC monstrous creatures, notably the Tau suits and the Wraithknight (which is Gargantuan if we're being picky, and specifically just needs to be about 150 points more expensive) need to be nerfed. That's all.

Take the Riptide. Leave its weaponry exactly the same, but change it to a Walker. It's T6 with a 2+ save, so that's what, an AV13 Walker? Ok, so it's now:

13/12/10 with 5 hull points. FNP upgrade gets replaced with IWND, because vehicles can't have FNP. Everything else stays the same.

That unit is vastly less powerful than the MC variant. It doesn't have automatic Ap2 in close combat. It is vulnerable to being instantly killed by any Ap2 or Ap1 weapon in the game. It goes from having an armour save and invul to just an invul. It loses Fear and Move Through Cover, which may seem trivial, but if you're not immune to Fear, it can be devastating. It can't elect to hit at Str 10 in close combat as a desperation move.

It trades immunity to armourbane and Haywire for immunity to poison and fleshbane, both far less common abilities. Its resistance to Grav is largely the same, except Immobilized really sucks. It goes from being at full functionality until its last wound to losing effectiveness every time its penetrated.

The problem is the MC rules being too good, the vehicle rules being too shit, AND some units being poorly costed.

>>51800225
Oh and mc can have armor save, fnp, they doesn't have problem getting cover save, and tanks rarely get invul.

>>51800225
>shit like flying psyker mc should be nerfed. I want to kill my self when i face flying iron arm dp.

Then change the psychic power. Things like Iron Arm, Invisibility, etc that render units basically unkillable for a turn need to be nerfed drastically across the board. I've always liked the idea that Invisibility is immediately cancelled if the affected unit does anything other than make a regular move or defend itself in combat. Because at that point, invisible or no, you've just alerted the enemy to where you are.

>MC have 4+ wounds, doesn't have damage chart and you need very specific weapon to instakill it.

And the flipside of that is Monstrous Creatures are a lot easier to wound. A T6 MC is roughly equivalent to an AV10 vehicle in terms of what weapons can potentially hurt them. There's definitely a very strong argument for removing the vehicle damage table altogether, but no, the base Monstrous Creature rules aren't overpowered just because they can't be one-shotted and don't need to change.

>>51800122
Well, the sheet isn't there to make statements. It's just a factual assessment of one (and only one) aspect of our gameplay. It is there for interpretation, not to state.

For example, it is criminally underselling reavers, if your trying to be sold here, but that's just the data on their damage output to their points. Nothing on their massive bonus to survivability and CC applications.

But your post reminds me I meant to compare units in transports as well. I struggled when I got to blasterborn in a venom because they have separate targets when firing, so simply adding casualties together was grossly misleading. However, 15pt splinter racks are a noticeable boon - 10 kabalites in close range go 1.11 wounds to 1.48 for TEQ, 2.22 to 2.96 MEQ, and 6.66 to 8.89 GEQ.

On the boil down, PpW, that's 64.1 TEQ, 32.0 MEQ, and 10.7 GEQ. That GEQ is a record holder, MEQ is better than the raider's own disintegrator, and the TEQ is "alright."

>>51800132
why a flyer nerf, flyers aren't always taken and aren't op with all the formations around.
LOW only available once you reach 1250/1500 points
MCs cannot have a 2+ armour save, 3+ max.
Any LOW models that can be squadroned into a unit no longer can be taken in a unit. e.g. stormsurge/wraithknights cannot be taken in a unit
Add 2 new unit types
Battlesuit: (to replace MCs, not the infantry): Immune to poisons, snipers wound on a 5+, haywire does d3 wounds if a 6 is rolled, still uses toughness. Also separate nerfs to the riptide/stormsurge.
Wraith construct: idk I don't know how it really works in fluff/crunch

>>51800132
There's nothing at all wrong with monstrous creatures. Nobody complains that carnifexes or the talos/cronos are overpowered. In fact carnifexes are garbage and Taloses are just barely okay.

The specific monstrous creatures that are horrendously overpowered aren't overpowered because they're monstrous creatures.

>>51800234
Riptide tank would be as good as gorkanaut. That is all.

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>>51800291

You mean a perfect unit?

>>51800234
the riptide shouldn't have AV
T6 means that bolters can wound it, av 13 means it is more resistant to plasma than it was before.
Here is my take
>>51800266
take the battlesuit unit type and the max armour save of 3+
increase price to 200
Ion accelerator now costs 20 points
cannot choose same nova result twice in a row
when the riptide loses 3 wounds, it can only harness the nova reactor on a 5+ instead of a 3+.
nova reactor result only increases 5++ to 4++ for the riptide itself, though drones become 3++ and now can look out sir.
Can take VRT for 10 points, though hit and run can only be used if both drones are taken.

Remove flyers. The game is the wrong scale for them.

>>51800176
Riptides t5
Stormsurge t6

Shits fixed now

>>51800176
Why do people always shout to nerf Tau battlesuits when Tau doesn't even perform that well in tournaments?
Eldar and Demons outperform them spectacularly, with Eldar having well over twice its winrate in some events.
Meanwhile Tau winrate is roughly on par with like four other codexes. No one's asking to nerf CSM or SM or Demons. Ever. Even though those codexes do as well if not better than Tau at events.

And even if, hypothetically, Tau did deserve a nerf, the only time Tau does amazingly well in a tournament is when the Tau'nar Supremacy Suit is deemed legal, like we saw in Atlanta in December. Without it, Tau is consistently an upper-midling codex. Yet every time people suggest Tau nerfs, it's always Riptide this and Stormsurge that. No one ever mentions the actual genuine problem unit.

When people post these sorts of opinions that manage to mischaracterize an already flaky problem, it becomes really hard to believe they understand the Tau codex and the meta in general.

>>51800329
a riptide is not the same toughness as a hazard suit.
>>51800311
did you get rolled by a flyer cheese list anon?

>>51800305

>T6 means that bolters can wound it

You need to hit the damn thing 36 times to cause ONE wound. That means 54 shots fired at BS4, or 27 Tactical Marines rapid firing into it. That's statistically pointless.

>av 13 means it is more resistant to plasma than it was before.

Yep. And in exchange it is vastly more vulnerable to melta weapons.

>>51800329
I don't give a shit about their toughness, the issue is that they have every conceivable type of save other than a re-rollable invuln.

They need to drop the feel no pain, there's no good reason why a tau MC has access to it when tyranids don't.

>>51800336
the tau'nar is expensive af and almost no one uses it and those who do would not find a game unless their opponent ran 2+ knights or a titan.
Also Forgeworld is released less often as less people use it while gw is the main units with the main codex.
>>51800340
If it now has a 3+ armour save only?
Also add a rule that the melta rule does d3 wounds to a battlesuit if it rolls a 6 to wound against a battlesuit, similar to rending, is that better?
Also the biggest reason the riptide will never become a walker is because the drones cannot be vehicles. And gw won't go to the effort to go fix them or create a fix for it.
The best you'll see is a new unit type or a game wide MC nerf.

>>51800336
You're my hero sir, in this mire of autism. Keep doing the emperors work.

>>51800337
I play mostly maelstrom. I dream of the day someone is stupid enough to spam flyers against me.

But no, I'm just aware enough to realize that flyers don't work at this scale.

>>51800336
>Why do people always shout to nerf Tau battlesuits when Tau doesn't even perform that well in tournaments?

Because even a middling Tau army is leagues above everyone who isn't one of the power codexes. Just because the Riptide Wing isn't the most overpowered thing around doesn't mean it isn't a miserable, pointless slog for 90% of the armies in the game to play against.

>>51800380
I'll spam flyers against you, any day.
How about 6 valkyries deep striking turn 1, with another 3 in reserve.
Removing flyers would remove one of the best armies in the game fluff wise: elysians.
>>51800381
riptide wing is one of the best formations around. Gladius, skyhammer, war convo and some eldar out do it, but it is the best formations under 600 points and can be readily fielded at 1000 or even 750 points.

>>51800374
>the tau'nar is expensive af and almost no one uses it and those who do would not find a game unless their opponent ran 2+ knights or a titan.
Maybe in your bumfuck LFGS, but the opposite is true for tournaments. Again, just look at Atlanta where Tau and the Supremacy Suit uncharacteristically dominated.

Which reveals what this discussion is actually about: people who want Riptide nerfs are people who want the codex to cater to their relatively poor and casual locals, as opposed to having competitively-balanced codexes designed for the tournament scene where things like Tau'nar and Wraithknight spam are not only common but encouraged.

Do you think codexes should be balanced around fully-decked tournament players, or poor casual locals?

>>51800381
>Because even a middling Tau army is leagues above everyone who isn't one of the power codexes.
If you're not one of the "power codexes", then you're going to be leagues below ANY of the power codexes. Your Nid army is going to lose against Tau, yeah, but it's also going to lose to Eldar, CSM, Demons, SM, and BA. Why are you singling out Tau when Tau's winrate is either on par or BELOW these other codexes?

If you think Tau isn't a FUN army to play against, that's perfectly valid, but that's a totally different point than talking about balance.

>>51800336
>No one's asking to nerf CSM or SM or Demons. Ever. Even though those codexes do as well if not better than Tau at events.

Because none of them are as obnoxious to go against as Tau. Other armies might be powerful, but I'd rather fight Daemons than Tau. Daemons are playing the same game as me, even if they're vastly more powerful than my Orks. Tau are playing a completely different game to me, where the rules don't apply to them.

Playing against Tau is like playing against Techies in Dota; frustrating and not at all fun.

>>51800434
>Because none of them are as obnoxious to go against as Tau.
Which is the issue here. You're not talking about balance at all, you're simply talking about your relative FUN and masquerading it as a discussion on balance.

>>51800132
Conjurations need a nerf and the psychic phase as a whole needs overhauled/removed, but psykers in general don't need nerfed. A handful of OP powers need nerfed, but the vast majority of powers are weak-to-mediocre.

>>51800451

Balance doesn't have the slightest thing to do with it. What, you think everyone on /tg/ is a tournament player? That everyone commenting online goes to tournaments? Of course not. The vast majority of games of 40K are played in GWs, FLGS's and inside homes.

You're asking why people shout to nerf Tau battlesuits when Tau don't perform that well in tournies. People shout for nerfs to Tau because playing against Tau suits is NOT FUN. Because when they plonk their army down for an 1850 friendly down at their local, and the guy across from them pulls out a Riptide Wing, they inwardly groan.

Balance at the tournament level has nothing to do with this. If an army is not fun to play against (and Tau are more or less the ultimate in anti-fun) people are going to complain about them.

>>51800421
I think all codices should be balanced to a middle level where they can be used in casual and tournament games.
Games workshop writes their codex without thinking about forgeworld, so forgeworld should take more of a back seat when looking at the faction as a whole. Honestly I don't even care about this argument anymore. I am a tau player and I have 3 scenarios at my local gw when I play.
1. I roll them: most common result, just fucking table my opponent in 3-4 turns
2. close game: I've had 2 of these, both against the same skitarii/admech player, though this was before I got my riptide
3. I get rolled: eldar player who brings a wraithknight and 5 wraithguard with d scythes and scatbike spam at 1000 points.
I roll most players, get rolled by some and have a genuinely good game 1 every 20 games.
The biggest problem here was the addition of LOW in games below 2000 points imo.
ITC can change the rule but LOW should be removed from 2000 points games, or at least over 1500.

>>51800336
>nerf CSM ...Even though those codexes do as well if not better than Tau at events.
You're a moron. Renegades and Heretics are not CSM.

>>51800472
Summon-spam Flying Circus lists are the pinnacle of anti-fun.

>>51800421
We can tell that you're baiting when you try to argue that BA are a power army.

>>51798140
The chaos armoury was mental so imagine smashfucker to nth degree
It was the equivalent of today's riptide spam

>>51800472
honestly, every faction can be made not fun.
I groan when my opponent dumps skyhammer at 1000, when I see a wraithknight at 1000, when I see magnus at 1000, when I see 6 leman russ tanks at 1000, 4 knights at 1500, it's just fucking aids to make the game not fun. The problem is that the riptide is so cheap and good on its own that is the problem, but the real problem is all of these "not fun" formations that just need to be removed.
>>51800497
flying circus can be fucking hilarious in some circumstances, unlike summon spam.

>>51800410
Ahh yes by telling me how OP flyers can be you have successfully convinced me they should remain in the game, congratulations.

>>51798461
Kelbor was more a manager type didn't go in for war modifications

>>51800522
>Every army can be made not fun
Even Orks, though this time for the Ork player!

>>51800527
>how op flyers can be
actually it would be the codex rule that is op.
flyers by themselves are decently balanced, though dfts was unnecessary.
Combat Drop is an op rule, only one faction has it and only one faction can deep strike flyers out its own ass since it has nothing but flyers and vet squads. not my fault FW is bad at balancing.

>>51800534

Orks are the ultimate good guy army. Everyone loves to play against you, and you have total freedom in what you take. You can take the most WAAC, netlisted, power-gaming list imaginable and people won't even bat an eyelid. It's liberating in its own way.

>>51800546
As long as you don't bring nobs in a naut. That shit is going too far.

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>>51800472
Tournament balance is all that matters.
What, are you proposing they balance codexes around your specific local scene? How the fuck is GW or literally any organization going to predict whether or not you and your friends can afford a Tau'nar or Wraithknight? How can they predict that you specifically, for whatever arbitrary personal reason that are in no way reflected in the rules, don't want to field specific models?

You can't freely choose to field fluffy garbage, then complain that your garbage isn't winning. It doesn't work that way. If your group is groaning when someone slaps down a Riptide Wing even though Tau is an upper-midling codex, then the issue isn't with the Tau player.

If a group of people find a certain codex to be unfun despite tournament results showing that they're not that amazing, that has literally nothing to do with the codex's balance, it has everything to do with your personal opinion and choices.

And even if you entirely disagree with everything I'm saying, I know for a fact that you genuinely don't know what you're talking about because no one here is complaining about the single Tau unit that can genuinely be argued as being overpowered. Everyone's fixated on Riptides without even mentioning the one single model that resulted in fucking pic related.

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>>51800576
N-nids, r-representing

>>51800576
>that CSM distribution
intredastinbb

why are orks so high?

>>51800576
Necrons (((

>>51800576

I'm not arguing for balance changes. I never once mentioned that balance should be based on people's opinions. You asked why people complained about units that obviously are less powerful than those available to other armies, which are, as you say, sweeping tournaments.

I provided a reason for this, that the average player (who is, after all, the most common person you'll find commentating on this subject) does not find it fun to go up against Tau at the best of times, but least of all when they are using battle-suits.

You're going off on some bizarre tangent about balance that has nothing to do with the discussion/debate/argument/shit-flinging match. Now if tournament players were all complaining about battlesuits it might be relevant. But this is /tg/, and we're not all tournament players. It's also ultimately pointless because GW is not going to take their balance tips from a Siamese eel-fishing board. Accept that there are going to be people who just plain don't like your chosen army because they don't find it fun to play against and move on.

>>51800620
>I'm not arguing for balance changes.
I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you, but wasn't this whole reply chain started by proposed nerfs to the Riptide and Stormsurge?

The same people who are losing to Tau are also losing to similarly-balanced and stronger codexes like Eldar, Demons, CSM, and SM.

So if Codex A <= Codex B, C, D, and E in terms of balance, yet people have an issue with Codex A specifically, then the issue cannot possibly be balance. If it were an issue of balance, then B, C, D, and E would be complained about too. But they're not, so it isn't.

The solution to Tau being "unfun" isn't arbitrary nerfs to units that don't perform too amazingly at events. All nerfs are going to do is change the tournament balance, which we've already established isn't the issue.

>>51800592
because ITC rules for orks throw them a bone or 2

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i might be doing it wrong, but results so far

I want tau to go and stay go.

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>>51798377
>>51797937
Praise on, brothers of the Greater Good!
Spread the word! Wololo these threads!

>>51800336
You can't make this shit up, 3rd best codex whines he can beat top 2.

>>51800691
Where does it say that?

>>51799006
>and his only remaining heir
Lion won't be sleeping forever

>>51800176
don't forget dreadknights and possibly the new Ynnari thing

>muh broken codex doesn't perform as well as broken demon and eldar therefore it's not broken.

>>51800176

make the fucking robotic suits vehicles and life is better for everyone

>>51800668
what? yes shoota boyz are more efficient at shooting.

who didnt know that?

>>51798656
I'm going to second the suggestion to get a winner army to go along with your orks. Eldar, probably. Nice aesthetics which are very different to orks. Decent start collecting set. Can easily switch from craftworld to the new ones (Ynarri?) to take advantage of the best rules. Low model count.

>>51800745
>Decent start collecting set
>when it comes with jshit bikes instead of guardians and a hero on foot
DELETE ELDAR

>>51800735
just report and hide powercreepfags

Hey guys - any objectively views on the new Ynnari (sp?) faction? How was playing against them? Which armies did better against them?

>>51800669
>to go
to go play? Certainly, I'll do this Tuesday :)

>>51800744
bored enough to do what >>51799294 did, but for the orkz

Newfag here, planning in making a World Eaters army. Any suggestion to be more or less competitive?

>>51800742
MC would be fine if Riptides didn't also have 5 (five) wounds on top of 2+/3++/5+++
Give it 3 wounds and remove FnP, bam.

>>51800773
>melee
>in this edition
I'm sorry anon it's fatal
>>51800778
How the fuck does a riptide have 3++ invulnerable save
What the fuck

>>51800773
World Eaters rules from Traitor Legions.

Regular CSM not Berserkers.

Make maximum use of your extra movement.

Bikers would probably be good.

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>itt taufags desperately trying to pretend their faction isn't overpowered shit
>mfw

>b-b-but daemons and eldar!

They don't try an pretend they're not over powered.

Taufags are the worst

>>51800790
They can boost their 5++ to 3++ 2/3s of the time

>>51800797
I think we can all agree tau should be removed from game.

>>51800835

Actually I'll disagree just for the sake of my one friend who plays Tau. Now every other Tau fag can go and hang themselves, but i like him, so I'm willing to put up with his bullshit.

>>51800835
I don't think so. This game seriously doesn't need any LESS non-imperial factions.

>>51800855

>Tau fag.

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Anyone else hate the new archon model?

>>51800855
Just replace Tau with Squarts

>>51800849
Why am I reminded of the film Conspiracy here?
Eichmann: Yes, yes, everyone knows one 'good' Jew that they'll want spared...

>>51800862
I like his sword, the rest is pretty meh.

>>51800835
Just remove their elites section.

>>51800862
Haven't liked any Deldar models since they replaced the old jetbikes.

>>51800861
Well, I started collecting 40k with the Tau but I never even played a single real game with them. Haven't had any Tau models in like 10 years now.
>>51800864
Squats are an imperial faction though
Unless they went renegade when the Imperium destroyed their home planet or something
I'd love me some squats though

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>>51800862
Here's the old one

>>51800835
Tau don't need to be removed. They need to be adequately nerfed in the next edition. No one would hate Tau if they were brought down to the same level as imperial guard.

>>51800862
Yeah, it's a really dumb looking pose. Thinking of kit bashing a completely different archon.

>>51800877
What's wrong with reavers?

>>51800291
>tank

>>51800883
Tau would be fucking great if they took out all the suits. A mechanized infantry force with skimmers and drones. That's pretty much the way I play them anyway.

>>51800849
You must have more patience then I. My meta is unfortunately near catatonic so I've been forced to play my Tau friend over and over. It feels like its been years since I've had a game that didn't involve that damn riptide of his. It doesn't matter the point size either 1000, 850 nope gotta have it every game.

>>51800881
>>51800884
Yeah I thought the same thing about the pose, the helmet also helps the old one a fair bit.

>>51800898
As someone who runs a mechanized infantry force with skimmers and (pain) drones, let me tell you it's not so great.

>>51800889
Old reaver jetbikes = BETTER SPIKIER reaver jetbikes.
See also: Old Raiders.
See also: Old Talos.

>>51800763
Tabled me with ease on turn 3, soulburst will be a high skill high reward competitive army that will destroy people's will to live.

In other words, they're pretty good.

>>51800924
I like the newer ones personally.

And old raiders just look ridiculous, I like the pirate ships better.

>>51800924
I like the newer ones, and as far as the archon, I like the newer one compared to mister stretchy face.

>>51800924
>Old Talos
Literally the best model in the game. I do, however, like both forms of raiders and jetbikes. Since reaver bikes are described in fluff as coming as varied and specialized in looks and function as, I imagine, ork bikes, I like to pretend the old/new are just two different types in a long list of different makes, like the different power armor marks.

are the battlescribe repositories fucked for anyone else? the main website seems to be dead

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Hey guys I'm kind of new so I was wondering if you had any advice for this list I put together

>>51801007
Squad Donatus is part of Kill Team Cassius, it's a package deal.

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so now that girlyman is coming back, what does that mean for the pilgrimage traditions of ma bois tha novamarines?

>>51801062
Quote from GW:
>"Literally who?"

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Is this an okay 1,000 point DEldar list?

>>51800995
and as soon as I ask it starts working again after two days. figures

>>51801071
surely they cant ignore this lmao
r-right guys? :^|

>>51801062
If you would take pilgrimage to jerusalem once every two years to witness the birth place of Jesus, what would happen if Jesus came back and declared a crusade against all the shit thats in the world?

You would flock the fuck up in there and fast. And if I have to make an guess, thats whats going to happen in Rise of Primarch.

>>51801071
Nah they know, there was Novamarine shoulder pads in the Deathwatch kits.

>>51801073
No. Those incubi aren't getting anywhere on foot, and you're ravager wants to fire at two different targets but must fire at only one sub-optimally. Pick one type of gun. You're scourges appear to have 6 heat lances why go home scourges ure drunk.

What is the best assassin for fucking up Yvraine ?

One cocky bastard at my local store is going to pump the cheese out of the Fracture and I want to teach him a lesson.

>>51801124
Culexus probably, as she is a Psyker

>>51801124
Antipsyker one ofc

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>>51801095
Better?

>>51801073
Immediate problems: the archon and incubi need vehicles.

Soul-trap (gives +S) with Agonizer (always wound 4+, regardless of strength) is a terrible combo.

The kabalites appear to be riding in those raiders, but any time the raiders move make the dark lances useless.

Scourges cannot take more than 4 heavy/special weapons. You have 6.

Ravager is is splitting gun types and thus splitting target types. You want all of one or the other depending on what you are otherwise lacking. For example, what do you have for MEQ? Nothing. So go all disintegrators.

>>51801146
Some of the above problems still apply, but while the ravager now replaces the scourges for anti-tank, you are sorely lacking anti MEQ.

>>51801176
What should I include for an anti MEQ? I thought the Incubi and Archon could do that?

>>51801146
What about not spending 180 points on a T3 model?

>>51801146
I'd probably drop the second venom/x5 warriors thing and add back scourges with haywire blasters for anti-tank (see >>51799294 for some stats at what units are good against what), then give the ravager all disintegrators.

>>51801196
You've got 5 melee infantry models to deal with 1,000 pts of MEQ. Models that will all summarily melt at a single plasma cannon blast. Think about that for a second. The venom will help get them there, but first they'll be locked in combat for some turns (leaving the rest of your army to fry), and the moment they're free, it just takes a bit of effort to melt the survivors. Assuming they survive whatever dedicated melee the MEQ is running.

>>51801137
>>51801142
Okay I hesitated between Culexus and Callidus (to fuck with her Invuln)

P.S: shite I was wondering if it was possible to make plasma/stormshield acolyte, but it is not :( (mispelled the wording)

It's usually considered heretekal by the AdMech to invent new machines and experiment around with new stuff, right? Hence why there's not really been any major progress in 10k years and why many Tech-Priest join the Dark Mechanicum, to have scientific freedom.
How come Cawl was then able to design the new super suit and life support machine he built for Tobute Guilliman? That seemd like a pretty big new invention.

>>51801418
>Tobute
I should just stick to calling him Papa Smurf and not bother with the full name.

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R8 my list

Can anyone tell me where specifically in the SM codex it says what each unit composition's maximum amount can be?

More Primarch leaks when?

>>51801418
Technically, yes. Realistically, once you reach Archmagos/High Magos and/or have a few friends in the Synod (which basically amounts to the same thing) you can pretty much do whatever as long as it's not outright summoning daemons and such as long as you're discreet about it and you have the sense to have a "Divine Revelation from the Omnissiah" and"Find" the new blueprint once you're ready. Mostly it's to stop the Enginseers and Techmarines and such from poking things they don't understand and fucking it all up, Cawl is of high enough rank he can just do whatever. For him to be convicted of tech-heresy he'd have to do much more radical stuff than that, even Scoria from 30k was only imprisoned after outright programming daemons into his combat robots, although Xana was a pretty shady Forge World as they went around then.

>>51801481
You mean max model count for a unit? It's the "Can add up to X additional Y to the unit".

>>51801481
the first line in each unit's "options" section
for example centurion devastator squad has this:
"May include up to three additional Centurions"

so, if the deafult umber of models is 2 centurions and 1 centurion sargeant, you can add up to 3 more centurions to this

>>51801062
too busy getting fucked by red corsairs

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>>51801087
>all the hundreds of thousands of UM progenitor marines flocking to meet Roboute
>Space Wolves head there too, since they've not really got anywhere else to go and Grimnar hates the current state of the Imperium as much as Girlyman will
>never has a concentration of marines been this big since Ullanor or Nikaea
>Roboute says "time to FUCK SHIT UP"

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Where can I find a Gangs of Commorragh rules scan? I'd like to get an idea of how it plays before I convince friends to get on board

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>>51800862
It can be made cool with a helmet and pose change

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I made an ammunition carrier for the heavy stubber HWT.

Would you recommend Dark Vengeance to someone who wants to get into WH40K and see how it is?

>>51801887
I'd recommend Kill Team first. It's designed for smaller scale skirmishes at low points.

>>51798689
link?

>>51801467
Bump. Pls give advice.

>>51801718
90% of dark eldar players use that helmet and think they are pro at converting, they might as well include that in the box

>>51801944
90% of those who use an archon maybe

I wish GW would update all the old modular HQ choices like the IG command squad and Space Marine captain.
...I guess other races have something like that too?

>>51798656
horus heresy

The GSC codex is noted as sold out, no longer available.
They are just out of stock right? They'll print more, right..?

>>51802054
Yes.

What is the base for Daemon MCs (BT, LoC, GUO, whatever the fuck Slaaneesh's is.)

>>51802060
I just ask because such things are usually noted "temporarily out of stock" instead of "sold out"

>>51802075
I've seen that no longer available thing with codexes a lot.

Always comes back.

>>51802073
Keeper of Secrets

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Making an inquisition army with Daemonology using Sigmarines as 'Holy Daemons'.

>Pic related is proxy for the Greater Daemons.

>>51799294
Blasters are ap2? Why is it different for teq and Meq? It should be all the same

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>>51802096

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So I got the Deathwatch part from Death Masque with their battleforce being next on the agenta and I'm wondering, should I go for formations or CAD ?

I hear some varying opinions, CAD gives a lot of flexibility but without the formation buffs I don't think they will do anything.

>>51802096
castrate yourself and relinquish all your financial responsibility, you're clearly retarded

>>51802126
>Why is it different for teq and Meq
5++

>>51802132
I heard Deathwatch just isn't gonna cut it as a stand-alone army.

>>51802128
.gif

>>51802135
He's cheaper than Daemon equivalents.

>>51802151
Maybe if you can buy them second-hand
DON'T GIVE GW MONEY FOR SHITMARINES

>>51802147
Not on tourney level no.

>>51802151
>.gif
It supports transparency.

>>51802159
Just gonna buy a box and cast them, do it with my IG already.

>>51798760
Where would gsc feature on that list?

>>51802178
You also collect cigarette butts and re-use teabags?

>>51802194
>re-use teabags

Anyone who does this is a fucking savage.

>>51802194
H-How did you know?!

>>51802186
Cheese if opponent doesn't know how to deal with them.

Also like Daemons very susceptible to bad luck.
If you don't get the summon/psychic powers/cult ambush rolls you need, it falls apart.

>>51802081
Okay, thanks.
Already worried that my little mutants will have no rules

What are the general uses for general special weapons?

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Rate my list

>>51802096
Can't take that model seriously, it just looks like an overweight model of Dante being used for a game of Kerplunk.

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>>51802313
>Aeldari

>>51802306
don't mix types, grav > all, avoid plasma pistols, melta on fast units, flamers if you wanna really kill a unit, plasma on ranged units, put your special weapons behinds regular guys

>>51802344
Hey Cheetahnon.

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Everyone has ideas on how to buff Orkz, but how would you nerf your faction to be on the Orkz level?

For example: Grey Knights
> all melee weapon upgrades have their costs tripled
> storm bolters are changed to bolters
> failed psychic tests deal damage to the psyker (the warp is really fired up!)
> dreadknights become walkers with a transport capacity, have their cost doubled, and lose their invuln save

>>51802362
IG
>Drop Artillery completely
>Can't lose to Orks otherwise.

>>51802362
but anon, the daemon hunters get raped by daemons; isn't that bad enough?

hey Guys, I have a kinda stupid question. I want to buy myself a book from Dan Abnett (The Lost) and I'm tight on money so I have to consider it. Now on amazon (in germany) there are two versions: the one marked with ISBN 10 (1844168182), that one is said to be the Omnibus with 1024 Pages and more "Volume"in regards to the size of the book itself, the other is the (1844168190) and just says Novels. Both of them have the same amount and I can't see the difference between them.

>>51802344
I <3 U

>>51802313
Ravangers should go with 3 disintegrator cannons as they will always end up jinking.

>>51802344
I love you

>>51802378
Check their isbn on goodreads

>>51802368
>TFW you are playing an ork army that work like Renegades sans Ordnance Tyrant and Zombies.

Turns out IA8 lets Ork build pretty much everything in the IG Arsenal besides Wyverns at decent prices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5TVqAlMK2s&ab_channel=StrikingScorpion82

>>51802387
Not the same guy but Jink doesn't force snapshots. So what's the issue?

>>51802476
Jink doesn't force snap-shots on embarked passengers.
The vehicle still has to snap fire.

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Rat my list

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>>51802483
Rattus Rattus

It's no Rattus norvegicus.

>>51802483
you lose turn 1 as your 5 dudes are swept easily and you can't really cap objectives with 4 units, despite 3 units of 3 flyers

>>51802480
wait, what about chariots? they count as one unit so they don't have an embarked passenger. would a burning chariot need to snapfire after jinking?

>>51802387
That's why I have night shields, to try and alleviate some of that.

Not that effective?

>>51802313
Where did that venom the banshees are riding came from?

>>51802539
What do you mean?

Ynnari can take them. It's a fast attack choice, and I put the Banshees in it.

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>>51797937

>>51802483
soooo... unbound?

>>51802518
For all purposes the guy riding it counts as a passenger that can't disembark so if the chariot itself has weapons it would snap fire but the exalted flamer riding the chariot would not.

>>51802520
that give you +1 cover save which would only be a 6+ in the open.
But a 3+ if you jink!

>>51802565
Oh, I said it because they are listed as Elite, as if they were the banshee's Transport, which didn't make sense rulewise.

>>51802567
really fires my lasgun

>>51802567
>Says the Xeno using Human language
Getta fook atta hei

I just want to be able to play Eldar without being accused of being a WAAC faggot.

8th ed. when?

>>51798405
It'll probably be more like
>Tau goals A) drive imperials offworld, b) study tech and take resources. Tau think most of the garrison/defenses are on the surface. Tau punch through initial defenses and stall in the corridors/underground. Hold Orbit against most reinforcements. Red Scorps manage to take a key objective, but ultimately the ground war is slowly being lost. Mechanicus release ALLL of their now-insane-from-being-cyborgs-for-millennia-Automata. Automata kill everything, driving SM, sane AdMech, and Tau from the world. Imps lose from making bad life choices. Tau lose from being bad in melee. Imps win in driving Tau off-world. Tau win in driving Imps off world. Tau sift through data for science.

>>51798501
They aren't the worst fliers in the game. They are just less effective at the jobs they do than other units the Tau have access to.

>>51802652

>Wow it's so difficult not to take D and scatspam!

Just don't go out of your way to be a faggot and you'll see you have tonnes of casual options.

>>51798570
Maybe Dark Eldar players should spend time learning how to do shit on a computer and less time looking for BDSM elf hentai.

>>51802686
Even D-scythe Wraithguard aren't that cheesy when footslogging. They're slow as fuck.

>>51802686
m8, I don't bikespam or touch wraith, I like my Aspects but people still rage. I rely on Dire Avengers, Fire Prisms, Banshees, and Scorpions mostly.

People complain about bladestorm mostly

>>51802686
>Anon claims he wants to play eldar without being called a faggot
>Gets called a faggot immediately
It's like pottery.

>>51799398
They needed a bold new color scheme for the anime fans, because desert tan is just a little bland for the flashy cartoon-watcher.

T'au Sept is still ocher, Viorla is now white with red trim instead of flat red (farsight's colours).

>>51802730
Someone at the painting team was painting Tau in that colour and they liked it so did them all up like that.

That's it.

>>51800234
They made it a monstrous creature because vehicles were OP when they were designed.

No Gathering Storm PDFs in the links?

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Rate list.

>>51802713
bladestorm is a great rule though, lets you make mince meat of anything with a toughness

>>51802362
Blood Angels
> Vehicles lose Fast
> All grav is removed
> Red Thirst rule becomes "pass Ld check or take wounds"
> No ATSKNF
> double cost of melee and special weapons

Isn't there normally a lot of space marine stuff available second hand? Guilliman really makes me want to start a space marine force.

Should I bring an Icarus Array on my Dunecrawler at 850 points or should I not bother and just go with a Neutron Laser?

Not sure how troublesome fliers could potentially be at that level. Mostly concerned about Tyranid Flyrants and Harpies potentially shooting me off everything because I can't properly hurt them outside of my Kataphrons.

>>51802362
CSM
>remove traitor legion formations

Dark eldar
>do nothing

>>51802836
What Chapter?

>>51800883
>>51800898
Hopefully Fires of Cyraxus will include a gue'vesa list based on smashing Tau and Guard together.