/5eg/ Fifth Edition General:

>>51277241

It's basically the difference between a warrior-priest and a priest-warrior.

4e is pretty fun.

>>51277241
> "Paladins are servants of the gods" meme
In Forgotten Realms, maybe. In other settings, paladins are above petty squables of gods - they are devoted to the concepts of JUSTICE or VENGEANCE or LOYALTY depending on the oath.

>>51277304
I've played it. Your tricks won't work on me!

>>51277241

In my opinion, the difference between a Cleric and a Paladin is that the Cleric is there to hold the line while a Paladin is there to lead the charge, if that makes any sense.

>>51277304
warden is best defender, warlord best leader, though in reality, all the leaders are best leaders, shaman is fun, bard is the shit, runepriest actually looks strong, and cleric is a mainstay, and artificer looks neat

>>51277304
Oh you mean D&D Tactics?

>>51277304
This is the 5e thread.

>>51277241
A cleric is an interpreter: they seek signs and portents from the divine and seek to interpret their will. Their power comes from a sort of mutual understanding and dialogue of service to their patron.

A paladin does not interpret the divine: they exert their own interpretation of morality on the world around them (this can and often does stem from some previous religious belief, thus "Paladin of X God"). A paladin's power comes from within, from their own convictions and force of will.

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What do you think of these character cards for dm use, i might adjust them slightly so am i missing anything important?

Not all Clerics are heavy-armor big-weapon frontliners. There are a lot of builds for purely support Clerics that can still be amazing in battle.

>>51277327
its the same in FR. They can follow gods and make their oaths before a god, but the power comes from the oath

>>51277455
Holy shit, anon, could you make it anymore blurry?

>>51277455
I'd make them less blurry

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>>51277106
now this is what i'm talkin about

>>51277170
Too much effort to do that over and over.
People will get tired as you insist on trying to wait until the enemy is unaware again.

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>>51277241
They're both fairy dust twinkle toes.

Fighter aka crusader is the best holy warrior.

How do you deal with people that don't READ THE FUCKING BOOK for countless months?

There's this one guy that has been playing the same character for a fucking year and he just remembered Shield Master gives a bonus to dex saves as reaction.

>>51277516
No need for magic

Enter rage and smite everything with holy wrath.

>>51277551
>bonus to dex saves as a reaction

I believe they get a flat bonus to dex save and can negate damage from a successful dexsave as a reaction.

If they're not invested enough to read the book, you have to worry if they're wasting their time.

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>>51277241
More important question: why Clerics who have to inspire the masses and show them the way use WIS, while Warlocks, who have to use their will in order not to fall under the influence of their patron (or resisting going insane after witnessing eldritch horrors, if we're talking GOO) use CHA?

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Quick, recommend me a fun build for a Life Domain Cleric.

So inspired by that one anon from the other few threads, I set out to slap together an alternative sort of encumbrance system. Here's what I have:

>Head Slot (hats, helmets, masks)
>Armour Slot
>Waist
>>Can hold two medium items
>Back
>>can hold two large items
>Backpacks
>>can carry five medium items
>Belt Pouches
>>can carry four small items

>Small Item Examples
>>bar of soap, a potion, a handful of slingstones, some light weapons
>Medium Item Examples
>>a set of clothes, a helmet, one-handed weapons, a 15 arrow quiver, a spellbook, a lamp, a bundle of three torches
>Large Item Examples
>>a backpack, two handed/heavy weapons, most armour etc.

Obviously it will require a decent amount of case-by-case rulings, but it's more a guideline to prevent people from running around with two swords, a halberd, a shield, thirty days worth of food, twenty torches, four thousand gold coins, an extra set of armour, a fishing rod, a spare helmet, a cauldron, a tent, and four 50ft ropes.

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>>51277576
Warlocks are basically evil clerics that are the fukboys of shitty wannabe deities.

So, they have to beg all the time for evil boy points.

>>51277582
Cleric 20.

>>51277516
Paladin "magic" isn't magic though.

It's a raw manifestation of your unshakeable and sheer belief in your cause. A paladin is just a fighter that DEUS VULTs so hard that the impossible becomes possible.

>>51277582
Cleric 20. Max out wisdom as soon as possible. Use spirit guardians and spiritual weapon as often as possible.

>>51277597
>So, they have to beg all the time for evil boy points.
Do they? I always regarded it as more like a chunk of power that is given to you immideatly, but you might have to do some favours later.

>>51277582
Get a level of druid for supergoodberry.

Other than that, there isn't really a lot of variation with cleric builds.

>>51277576
Clerics aren't priests. You described priests.

>>51277582
Get initiate spell caster druid, use Goodberry, spend all your extra spellslots on making dozens of them for the next day.

Enjoy breaking 5E for a session.

>>51277582
No. I will however give you a """"""""""fun"""""""""" build.
Level 1 Cleric, Life
Level 6 Bard, take Aura of Vitality as one of your spells
(2d6+5)x10 healing over one minute of combat

Alternatively: if your DM follows that rulings about goodberry and life cleric you can have 4 health per use goodberries.

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Already lost one player in our group and it was only the first session

>GM decides to run curse of strahd starting at lvl 3
>party ends up being 2 bards, 1 wizard, 1 warlock, 1 rogue
>warlock took fiend pact and is aligned neutral
>wizard took necromancy spec but is chaotic neutral
>session goes meh, GM is noobish and doesn't add in any encounters sans the church which we avoid for now
>get to a stopping point and rogue has done fuck all roleplaying with anyone
>only wizard and warlock know what each other is capable of
>next day rogue guy texts everyone saying he's out because he won't adventure with evil characters, mainly directing it at wizard and warlock
>GM tells him that they aren't
>starts going off in texts saying he hates evil characters and that everyone is corrupt in the group except him
>his character doesn't even know in game what we are since he interacted fuck all with anyone
>repeats on about how everyone is making this campaign evil and wizard and warlock should be banned and he refuses to play until then

>>51277582
Life Cleric 1/Bard X. Use magical secrets for the good healing spells from other lists.

>>51277643
Clerics can't do that with Magic Initiate. Bards, rangers, EKs, and ATs can.

>>51277006
Build fighter. Take noble background. Choose the retainers feature. Refluff the majordomo as your Lefeau.

>>51277629
"Mom" teaches you how to make your own nuggies.
Eventually you get tired of that flavor and beg her to each you how to make a new style of sauce.
She will, but you have to clean your room and spend enough EBP.

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>>51277241
A paladin is a white knight who follows a code of honor and justice (an oath, if you will) who rescues the princess from the dragon keeping her in a tower and swings a shining blade of light and inherits the throne because he's also of noble blood and is good looking and charismatic as all white knights are. They've been corrupted into god servants and shit in the past because there are always people who don't understand something.
Evil paladins like from the paladin UA are the result of people going 'hurr what if we made one evil and do all the bad stuff'. They're just an evil version for the sake of have an opposite of anything with strong association behind it.
Clerics are religious devotees who suck god cock all night in exchange for magic powers. They're actual servants who are expected to carry out the will of their god and act in the interest of their church.

>>51277629
Warlock's source of magic is their patron, they're commoners without them.

>>51277684
>Clerics are religious devotees who suck god cock all night in exchange for magic powers. They're actual servants who are expected to carry out the will of their god and act in the interest of their church.

In FR

>>51277648
Why even try to get him back if he's going to be like that?

He's clearly not invested.

>>51277327
>"Depends on the setting" meme

>>51277648
your rogue is right

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>>51277644
This sounds hilarious. I might try this.

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>>51277463
>>51277479
>>51277455

I thought it would be easier to use my phone than scan it but it appears my phones a shit.

>>51277758
Your phone may be shit, but your handwriting is even worse.

>>51277743
Past level 7 it's a better healer than straight life cleric. The one in my current game is life cleric 1/bard 14 and the group only uses short rests to recover stuff like superiority dice occasionally. The healing between fights is extremely efficient.

>>51277758
What even the fuck is happening in the AC lines there

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>>51277758
> Base AC
> Evade AC
> Block/parry AC
> Armour AC
> Magic AC

>>51277703
this
everyone knows 90% of games here are FR
lets just stop with this shit

I need help.
The DM's younger brother keep rolling 20s. Not like "Oh, he was lucky tonight" but consistantly getting 20 10+ times each session.
Normally I wouldn't give a shit, but he's starting to be a dick about it. I don't think he's cheating, mostly because he's not smart enough to do it without someone noticing.
What can I do?

>>51277800
Most of the people using it would not give a shit about FR if it was not the default setting of 5e.

>>51277758
STOP

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>>51277758
What edition are you even playing?

>>51277697
Nobody but the GM tried. He's always a whiny ass who would quit a campaign if anything happened to him or if he wanted to deviate from the path, but whenever he GM'd he would make a game hell and double dmg of all monsters and enforce railroading because he can't into imagination

>>51277820
You can relax about the fact random is random. The more d20s you roll, the more chances you have for natural 20s.

>>51277820
Statistically unless he's clearly cheating they'll roll as normal from now on.

>>51277820
Stop being salty about someone else being lucky, I guess? If it's the same die each time and nobody else uses it, it might be weighted.

>>51277684
Treachery paladin isn't evil the selfishness 'oaths' are basically every other PC ever.

>>51277820
Make him use different dice.

Which of these would be better for a Brawling fighting style:
>When you successfully grapple or shove a creature, you can also deal bludgeoning damage to that creature equal to your Strength modifier.
OR
>When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can attempt to grapple or shove a creature as a bonus action.

Whichever I use, it'd likely include
>In addition, whenever a feature or effect would activate when you hit with a melee weapon attack, you can choose to activate it when you make a successful shove or grapple.

What I'd really love is a way to include more actions. Like, when it says "you may make lots of different ability contests in combat, these are just examples". But I'm worried something like
>When you successfully win an ability check contest against a creature in combat, you can choose to also deal damage equal to the ability modifier with which you made the contested check
would just lead to nonsense. Not to mention trouble with damage types.

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Anyone here played or played with Fighter Knights?

Reading around, I've seen some people say Pathfinder is "more advanced" than 5E. As someone who's put a year into both systems, I gotta ask: how is it more "advanced" if 97% of its content, feats, archetypes, and choices for character customization and tactics are useless, inefficient, and not worth investing in?

>>51277910
I wouldn't give them a grapple or shove as a bonus action. That's shield master / tavern brawler's territory.

Dealing bludgeoning damage equal to strength modifier sounds better.

I'd be careful of the extra benefits due to multiclass abuse (Sneak attack on grapple) or if it ends up with a weird synergy with magical weapons. Make surei it doesn't get a bonus from weapons or anything.

>>51277978
Pathfinder's fans like it for the same reason people like M:tG. They get to feel good about sorting through the shit to pick out the good stuff, and they get to talk about building more than they'll ever actually play.

>>51278024
This sums it up. In my time with PF before I got into 5E we spent way more time planning characters and building them than actually playing. The bloat got so frustrating and it became so tiring to read through a dozen pages of feats and class options only to find out that you could count the number of useful ones on one hand. This is also coming from someone who loves the "hardcore" RPGs that supposedly mean you'd love Pathfinder.

In my last days of the game, for example, while I struggled to find any fun left in the system, I spent hours constructing a Whip-wielding Bard. It seemed so cool on paper. I couldn't wait to play him.

Then I realized to make whips and using whips even remotely feasible or useful you need to eat up half a dozen feats and follow an extremely specific path of advancement, and by level 15 you can finally compete with level 5 players in terms of utility.

That pretty much nailed the coffin shut on Pathfinder for me. Went to 5E and have never looked back.

>>51278088
>>51278024
>>51277978
Not even to mention the huge amount of furries and pony-lovers in the Pathfinder community and Paizo's explicit support of them.

Is Prismatic Wall any good ? It does put the creature through a lot of saves but it's a 9th level spell.

My characters have become murder hobos - not for fun, but as a path of least resistance

They slaughtered a dozen people, blacksmith, random peasant, corrupt nobleman and town guards included because it was easier than finding evidence or exposing their crimes.

Now they are kind of pissy at me because a city has barred them access and only fucked off when they realized the captain was buying time for reinforcements to show up. They also have mercenaries after them.

What else would hunt them down? I'm thinking after they kill a few more innocents some kind of knights templar would go out and fuck them up, capture them and send them underground to fight through a prison/cavern filled with tons of evil shit the city cannot clear out, so if they fight their way out(basically an underground campaign with undercities, they will have paid for their sins

>>51277800
>running games in established setting whee you can't bullshit and tailor details
JUST

>>51278189

Give them the title "Butchers of [Town Name]" and have the BBEG try to hire them just to drive the message home. Maybe they would actually enjoy playing as an evil henchmen squad.

>>51278250
>implying you can't bullshit and tailor details in FR
this is 99% of FR games

>>51278189
Invite them to the thives' guild. They were murdehoboing for free, why not pay them instead? Give them murderhobo quests from the guild too.

>>51277910
I forgot to mention
>You must have at least one hand in which you are not carrying a weapon, a shield, or a spell focus in order to gain this benefit.

>>51277995
>weird synergy with magical weapons.
Good catch. It might or might not be wise to exclude those, though--if you have a Flametongue, and you have the choice to either deal 1d8+Strength damage plus 2d6 fire damage, or to deal Strength modifier damage and grapple/shove, then the latter becomes less appealing. You're already giving up an attack for it. But at the same time, it does seem a bit strange to shove someone and deal 2d6 fire damage, and I might be forgetting some magic weapons with more abusable effect.

I wanna keep the wording as short and sweet as possible, but still unambiguous. That's the tricky part.

If I went for something like
>In addition, you can apply any feature or effect which would trigger when you hit with a melee weapon attack to a successful grapple or shove, as long as the feature or effect would be triggered by any melee weapon attack regardless of the weapon used.
That's unambiguous, but long.

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>>51278189
The cure for chaotic evil murder hobo is a TPK by the paladin deathsquad. Once they get caught, toss em in a dungeon and tell them that their character's lives are over or they can try to play dungeon escape before they're executed publicly. It's a lesson every player must learn, they should know the risks if not.

Start anew and tell them that there's great rewards for gaining renown, such as holdings, gold, monster girls, licenses and magic items.

What's the /5eg/ consensus of the new ranger / rogue archetypes?

>>51278299
Thieves guild doesn't kill or do hits. You're thinking of the assassin league or cartels.

>>51278401
There's probably no consensus yet.

I think the rangers are unimpressive but the rogue is pretty good.

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Personally I feel that the role of a party leader/booster with auras should be a fighter. Primarily because I've always found it odd that the black guard was a prestige class and the paladin was playable out the gate.

>>51277629
I don't think the PHB really elaborates on whether the patron cares about them or not. So it depends on the player and the DM on what the patron wants out of the deal, or even if they care about said deal.

>>51277800

>Running FR

Not if my players held me up at gunpoint. Fuck that garbage kitchen sink setting.

>>51278401
Sorta bummed, since I'm trying to make a homebrew archetype for each class and the one I made for the ranger is very similar to the Primeval Guardian, so now I gotta come up with something new.

Also Scout is a little bit of a boring concept, just compared to the more unique, flavorful archetypes most classes have gotten, but it's still cool.

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I still can't wrap my head around the fact that a fighter lvl10, who just multiclassed into a warlock lvl1, and a straight warlock at 11 both have the same 3 beam eldritch blast.

>>51278495
They don't. The warlock has up to 3 invocations he can apply to his.

>>51278503
And to expand on that, the fighter won't be able to add his or her Charisma modifier to the damage roll, which is a big deal.

>>51278495
Firebolt for life, EB can't target object.

>>51277241
One is a full caster, the other isn't.

One was a Fighter offshoot, one was a Magic User offshoot.

One is dancing around the chivaric knight concept, one is a catch all for priests combined with specific Christian gimmicks (no edged weapons so as not to shed blood).

>>51278503
>>51278529
sure, these are added bonusses, but the issue is that a chump who just stumbled into the dark arts instantly gets to cast a lightshow as big as the veteran warlock

>>51277684
Being a white knight won't make her sleep with you, Anon.

>>51278586
Maybe if he actually invested enough in Charisma, sure. Which is going to make his fighter-ness suffer.

>>51277693
My warlock wants to kill his patron and steal his power

How do I do this? This would probably be wayyyyy later on in the campaign

>>51278401
Horizon Walker is my shit.

Primeval Guardian is cool but wants so badly to be a Drood.

Scout is aight.

>>51278603
okay, let's say a bard 10 who just multiclassed into warlock then
how does that make any sense though?

>>51278611
Well, what's his patron?

>>51278611
Start multiclassing into Wizard/Druid.

>>51277974
I am currently doing it. What's the question?

>>51277978
Because 3% of the absolute landfill of content Pathfinder puts out is of similar size to the entirety of some systems, 5e included.

Also, some people just like more shit and others like less.

>>51278487
As a fellow brewer, the feel for me it's often the opposite.

I had been working on a Warlock archetype as a stand-in for the Artificer fit a while now, never quite being satisfied with the result. I'm considerably happier now that Arty has a chassis -- gives me an anchor point for optional features that didn't fit in a single class archetype.

And you're always free to decide you like yours better. UA isn't set in stone yet.

>>51277241
>who can dish it out in the melee.

Well, at extremely low levels.

>>51278640
Because it's a cantrip and not the sole ability a warlock has.

>>51278676
Pathfinder is an ocean with the depth of a puddle. You'll realize this fact once you also realize that there's no reason - narratively or mechanically - to use even an iota of its content. You'll also come to realize how terrible of a mechanic CMD/CMB is.

>>51278598
I think he was using the original, non-meme definition of the phrase.

>>51278415
It literally doesn't matter how you call your local major criminal organisation.

>>51277241
My group is doing a tournament tonight and some pvp will most likely occur. I am the only noncaster in the party.

Any suggestions to not get completely exploded before I can close on them?

Was thinking maybe as the GM if the shop has any ammunition enchanted with some CC or silence stuff. Otherwise I'm not sure.

>>51278744
If a thieves' guild is doing assassinations, that's a bit of a misnomer.

>>51278640
The bard could just learn it through Magical Secrets anyway.

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>>51278670
What kinda build are you doing? And do you do hit n' runs in combat to mark as many as possible or just meatshield it?

I was thinking doing drive by on a mount with a lance would ideal for knight. Perhaps mobile feat and reach weapons would also be very good, shield and spear with spear master feat.

>>51278783
I guess if you wanted to throw your magical secrets away.

>>51278474
>Fuck that garbage kitchen sink setting
You do realize you don't have to play in the Sword Coast / Dalelands region where everything is standard European fantasy, right? The fact that it's "the kitchen sink" means there's a wealth of interesting locales and details for you to utilize.

>>51278435
>fighters should be the support class instead of cleric
>my justification is that I don't like how paladins worked in previous editions.

That makes no sense.

>>51278648
Fiend

He wants to kill his patron and absorb its power

This guy wanted to make a half abyssal tiefling half fallen asamir

When he killed his first monster he wanted to know how much power he gained.

>>51278684
It's sort of an obsessive/neurotic thing. I really want my archetypes to be unique. It's the same reason I've gotten rid of all the ones based on old classes.

>>51278818
>You do realize you don't have to play in the Sword Coast / Dalelands region where everything is standard European fantasy, right? The fact that it's "the kitchen sink" means there's a wealth of interesting locales and details for you to utilize.

I also realize I don't have to play in FR at all. Which is a much more freeing realization. How you got me disliking standard European fantasy from my post is baffling, and I assure you that's the least of my problems with FR.

>>51278787
Haha. I've been drive bying like crazy. Unfortunately my DM is pretty stingy with loot and I joined the campaign late so I'm broke right now.

From what I understand I can only mark one unit at a time and it's awesome for protecting the squishiest. Which is great because I'm the only noncaster in the group.

I use lance when mounted and sword and board when I'm not. I also have high AF Dex so just kiting people period works really really well. Might be something to consider. You still get the mark with range weapons, as far as I know so you can still impose disadvantage on an enemy while kiting him.

Basically, it's great if your DM gives you a mount and doesn't fuck with you about it. There is a TON of versatility and I think your ideas sound fine but you can do a whole lot with it. Don't feel pigeonholed.

>>51278857
The thread is your oyster, Anon. Dazzle us. Why should we hate FR, or at least, why do you?

>>51277644
very interesting

>>51278882
Not him, but because it doesn't inspire me the way Eberron and Dark Sun do.

Flying mechanical servant or CR 2?
I was thinking either Giant Vulture or Rhino

>>51277597
They don't.

>>51277693
There is equal proof that the patron can deny the warlock power as the god of fighting can deny the fighter his class abilities or the the god of magic denying wizards his spells for being dumb.

The paladin can't even lose his powers, he can only be forced to change oaths, become an oathbreaker, or change class.

>>51278881
>>51278787

Uh, nevermind. I misread basically the entire marked thing. Melee weapon only. Can do more than one per round.

But yes. Reach has been working out great but I have to spend most of my time interposing myself between the squishiest members of the party.

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>>51278902
>Eberron
i'm saddened to know we're likely getting an update of this setting again instead of dark sun
or mystara
or birthright

>>51278834
>I want to be a super special ultra mega snowflake
>It's half this special snowflake and half this special snowflake

>>51278949
It's a fun setting, and it should at least include enough psionics to poach for Dark Sun if you hate it that much.

>>51278435
Paladins have to follow rules.
Blackguards do not have to follow the rules, evil rules or otherwise, and do not have to follow the opinions or commands of an evil god or demon lord.
Dipping into blackguard is more expensive (requires shit feats) but has no intrinsic drawback, while paladins can't fight dishonorably (while invisible, etc.)

>>51278700
Well.. it's pretty much the only thing you use as a Tomelock.

>>51278834
jfc

1,000 folded nippon steeru can't match this edge

>>51278744
>they're all criminal scum!

Words have meaning, Mr. lawful stupid. Thieves guilds, assassin leagues, cartels and cabals are completely different organizations.
Thieves guilds are typically neutral, while ones that murder are evil.

>>51278949
Eberron and Dark Sun were both created to push the rules.

5e Eberron/Dark Sun doesn't have much room for pushing any envelops.

5e Spelljammer or Birthright etc. would be something that could add to the setting, I don't see much potential for Eberron or DS doing so.

>>51278834
Well, .ake him fucmi g work for it. Make deals with other Fiends, do their dirty work, make him walk the tightrope of bei g useful to the party and acfomplishing his goals. Absolutely do not just give him what he asks for.

>>51278970
>Blackguards do not have to follow the rules, evil rules or otherwise
That's where you're wrong, friendo.
In settings where Paladins are powered by Good (so, pre-5E), Blackguards are similarly powered by Evil. They can't just go around doing Good things for people because it gets them loot and "i'll use this sword to kill a lot of babies later" the same way a Paladin can't go around doing Evil things in order to get a bunch of cash or a sword "which i'll totally use to slay the necromancer".

Characters literally powered by Evil in objective morality settings must actively work to avoid doing Good while continuously spreading Evil and gathering more of it to themselves. It's not just "ha ha I don't have to follow the law".

>>51278882
>Why should we hate FR

You shouldn't. If you like it, far be it from me to take it from you, you're not a player of mine and it's doubtful I'll ever play under you if you DM.

>>51278882
>why do you

The setting is chock full of NPCs, which isn't a bad thing, but all these NPCs are extremely high level and explicitly meddling in the affairs of everyone else all of the time. There are more 'scheming evil overlord who makes retarded decisions for the sake of the setting plot' villains running around than I can count on one hand (Telemont Tanthul being dead only means I don't need three hands for this, now), the setting is mostly bland with 'Land of the X' sprinkled everywhere, and the Gods. Holy fuck, FR's pantheon. Its the pantheon of capeshit, where everyone's constantly dying, returning to life, fucking with mortals in order to kill each other and spending centuries plotting for an advantage only for it to not matter because Ao re-wrote the tablets of fate in the end and we're all back to square one. The Wall of the Faithless. Mystra the never-actually-dead and the HUGE amount of Gods to keep track of as well as what they're doing. The multiple evil organizations who all job to the various NPC's in the setting when by all rights they should be ruling by now considering the power they can fling around. The elves and dwarves manage all have more flavors than jelly belly while still managing to mostly be boring, bland shit. I don't even want to talk about Halruaa. Fuck Halruaa.

The only time I found FR to be tolerable was during the Spellplague, if only for the 'post apocalypse things are different now how does this old established universe hold up against calamity'. But the answer turned out to be 'pretend it never happened'.

>>51278776
>>51278744
>>51278415
Actually, its 100% realistic and plausible that a thieves guild would shank these guys. They aren't assassins, but thieves guilds DO usually punish people who do criminal shit on their turf without their blessing.

>setting wars
Sorry, only one setting has a hollow earth filled with sentient t-rexes wielding arquebuses
All other settings are shit
SHIT

>>51279039
Well to be fair, the "Blackguard" of 5e is the Treachery oath.
Which is pretty much "fuck ya'll, I'm doing whatever I want". Not necessarily evil, not necessarily good and doesn't have to follow anything.

>>51279081

I didn't want to war, but I did want to answer anon's question. And honestly I didn't cover everything, like the entire cauldron of retardation that is the Mulhorandi pantheon but I guess that fits under 'gods'.

>>51279125
>he doesn't like Thoth
get out

>>51278825

Where did I say cleric? I'm talking about the leadership angle that's usually associated with paladins (i.e. aura to help resist fear and shit).

>>51278841
They will never be unique. Pretty much anything you will ever post will have someone saying it's a ripoff of X or based on Y or comparable / mirroring Z.

Just make the best version of whatever you're making, and stick with it.

>>51279039
>That's where you're wrong, friendo.

I'm talking about D&D. The rules? Remember? I don't give even the tiniest of fucks about your special snowflake hogwash.

>Blackguards are similarly powered by Evil.

Contrast and compare the blackguard vs assassin vs paladin.

Assassin: Must be evil, and kill someone for no reason other than to join the guild.
Paladin: Must be lawful good, AND cannot have evil associates, AND must fight in a vague but kludgy way (presumably no stabbing sleeping people/while invisible), AND must do a whole bunch of other shit.

Blackguard: Must be evil, and have friendly contact with an evil outsider.

That's fuckin it. Not have HELPFUL contact, or SUBSERVIENT contact with an outsider. Just friendly contact.

>They can't just go around doing Good things for people because it gets them loot and "i'll use this sword to kill a lot of babies later"

They don't even need to kill a lot of babies later. Evil doesn't work that way.

>the same way a Paladin can't go around doing Evil things in order to get a bunch of cash or a sword "which i'll totally use to slay the necromancer".

You forgot about the code, numbskull.

>must actively work to avoid doing Good while continuously spreading Evil and gathering more of it to themselves.

They don't. You are making shit up.

Evil and good are not mirror images. Good characters fight against evil ones, but evil ones have no automatic interest or awareness about good types. Read up on the descriptions of alignment.

Blackguards are free men who are evil, while paladins are servants of goodness. Very, very different.

Best way to make the following 3.5 prestige classes in 5e using everything available from Wizards (core, adventure modules, UA)?

> Ghost-Faced Killer
> Orator
> Geomancer (the one with drift)

>>51278949
Isn't Eberron a setting where magic items are a normal thing that can just be produced and you don't need to dive to the bottom of the lost forgotten ruin of tyrant deathkill mcskullfuck to the find the toothpick of +1 to swimming?
That doesn't mesh with 5e at all.

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I am looking for some simple survivalism homebrew rules. Something to cover hypothermia.

Pic is a real Paladin, as payment.

>>51279131

I don't mind the idea of Thoth. I do mind the idea of a bunch of slaves literally porting over a pantheon of deities from real world Earth on the power of faith alone.

>>51279210
The original ghost faced killer was a lengthly excuse to have an assassin that attacks will, and is based off the ninja instead of the rogue.

There is no ninja (afaik) or if there is he's not mechanically distinguishable, and assassins don't attack con based saves, so just use an assassin, probably.

>>51279068
I actually like the Wall of the Faithless, it's pretty metal.

>>51279034
We'll I mean, he's not getting any bonus shit.

I'm talking lore, say its a lesser fiend so the party can kill it - what kind of story element?

I'm thinking of cucking him by his patron actually having a patron itself so he just got a higher rank in a pyramid scheme

>>51279188
>literally just a nega-Paladin with even more benefits
>that power just comes outta nowhere apparently
Let's not. If you're gonna defend this shit I want to see you explain why Bards can't be Lawful because that's what the class rules state.

>>51279248

And hey that's cool. Different tastes, and all that. FR even has some ideas I like. Skullport for example, I like the idea of, even if I don't like it in practice. I loved the Erevis Cale trilogy and I like the Xanathar Guild. The Rage of Dragons and the Cult of the Dragon are other things I found pretty cool. But the setting as a whole turns me off.

>>51279242
>on the power of faith alone
that's literally how gods work in forgotten realms though
a dragon became a god because he got enough people to believe he was one all at the same time

>>51277703
>In Forgotten Realms, maybe. In other settings, paladins are above petty squables of gods - they are devoted to the concepts of JUSTICE or VENGEANCE or LOYALTY depending on the oath.
It is objectively true though. 5e doesn't even directly mention requirements for gods or alignments for paladins. Theoretically you could be an atheist paladin in 5e. It would be retarded and edgy in most settings but you could be.

Pretty much paladins gain their powers from oaths and clerics gain their powers from gods. Beyond that paladins are dedicated warriors bound to their oath and associated with their god as opposed to clerics who are simply armoured mages bound to their god.

>>51279138
But they can be mostly unique.

Also there's a lot of overlap in the case of my conclave and Primeval Guardian. They both rely on a mastery of plants and they're both heavily defense-centered. Primeval Guardian is more flavorful and interesting about it.

>>51279299
>that's literally how gods work in forgotten realms though
>a dragon became a god because he got enough people to believe he was one all at the same time

Yes, this is another thing I hate about the setting. Tchazzer was a story that started stupidly and ended even worse, somehow.

>>51279001
You might be playing wrong then.

>>51279305
Yeah, 5E changed Paladins all around because 95% of the people who played them were shit at it. Got rid of alignments because 97% of all players and DMs were shit at those, too.

In 6E we'll probably have to get rid of Wizards, because 94% of players are shit at those.

>>51279346
Consensus reality, bro. It's a perfectly fine basis for a setting.

>>51279283
FR has good content and best cities, but it's backdrop is now so cliche it feels dull. It used to be more unique before Warcraft became popular.

>>51279275

>literally just a nega-Paladin with even more benefits

Well, about the same or less benefits, and generally shittier, plus more expensive entry. There are, you know, EVIL FUCKIN PALADIN variants which are very different from blackguards (for starters, they have EVIL RULES they must follow), you should read up on them. The sole benefits to being a blackguard are no rules + no MC penalty. Generally, though, they're pretty crap except for a couple things.

>If you're gonna defend this shit I want to see you explain why Bards can't be Lawful because that's what the class rules state.

Because its the rules?
Because CG, CN, CE, NG, N, NE only bards make somewhat more sense (given 3e's flavor text for chaotic behavior) than NG, N, CN, LN, and NE only bards?

>>51279210
>GFK: Way of Shadows Monk, Assassin Rogue, or some combination of the two
>Orator: Bard, just go probably lore bard and tinker with your options
>Geomancer: Fuck if I know. Multiclass Druid Warlock or you could go either Arcana Cleric or Theurge Wizard with the right flavor domain.

>>51279238
The idea was the magic items were produced according to 3.5's magic item rules and taken to their extreme. The result was a society that replaces a lot of technology with magic items.

The nature of the magic items is what needs to be adjusted, but even the 3.5 source books say anything more than a plain old +1 weapon is not something that's mass-produced.

>>51279382
It means your superiority is determined by how hard your like button is mashed, which tends to make for gods who are even more petty than the Greek pantheon, a la FR.

>>51279382

Not for me. A fantasy God to me is more than just a mortal who got enough people to buy into what he's selling. It makes the idea of evil Gods particularly hard (How the -fuck- does Cyric have followers after trying to end reality twice?) because if there are chaotic evil gods of murderfucking that want to end all life (Tharizdun) and gods use mortals like faith batteries in order to stay powerful and relevant, how is (Tharizdun, Chaos, Shar, Cyric, place any horrible secret elder-or not elder in Cyric's case- deity here) dangerous? Very few but the most degenerately insane would worship them and that can't be enough to out-faith-battery the people worshipping Gods like Lathandar.

I reiterate I'm not trying to war. If it works for you, good, FR has a lot of material and potential to work with if you dig, but it doesn't work for my group.

>>51279388
>best cities
Tell me a FR city as cool as Sharn or Stormreach.

>>51279388
The idea that FR is cliche comes from everyone playing all their adventures in the same place, or at least treating them like the same place. DMs running a game in Amn are going to have everything work exactly the way it does in Cormyr, same with Thay or Damara, when neither of these locales, cultures, or systems of government are anything like each other.

People treat everything like fucking Cormyr until they wind up in Kara-Tur or Chult.

>>51279305
>Theoretically you could be an atheist paladin in 5e
Makes me think of that Pathfinder novel about an atheist cleric.

>>51279465
>>51279388

>TFW archetypal amazing fantasy city for me will always be the gates of Palanthas
>TFW everyone either hates Dragonlance or never played in it

Kill me

>>51279486
>hates Dragonlance
Why though?

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>>51279465

>>51277241
Has anyone played a PvP style game?

Like a game that has a central aspect of players / groups fighting against NPC's of elites rather than just bulk mooks.

ie:

5 players of level 3 fighting against NPC team of 5 either made from the player handbook or level appropriate monsters?

Something like gladiator arenas or bounty hunting and the like

>>51279511
It's a more boring Forgotten Realms.

>>51279426
I think Eberron is still pre industrial revolution with regards to magic item progression.

Magic is still made in the preindustrial fashion of highly specialized types dedicating their lives to sitting down and making great quality stuff, and Eberron exists firmly in the anti industrial mindset that these people CANNOT be replaced by any machine.

Ironically, the flip side of this, the Creation Forges, which ARE definitely industrial revolution inspired tech, probably the greatest magical artifacts of the setting... just do something that is nonmagical in the end effect: they churn out people. Not people under your control, not people who can be made to all become artificers and churn out magic items... just people.

>>51279511

Kender, in my experience.

>>51279452
Was it Bane, Cyric, and Bhaal or Myrkul or someone, those three evil mortals who just plain were given godhood purely as welfare?

>>51279555
So what? Any setting with gnomes will have players playing kender anyway.

Any of you fine folks play College of Whispers? How'd it go for you?

>>51277576
>Who have to use their will

Said it yourself. Charisma in dnd is your force of willpower, not just how well you can wink at the waitress from across the bar. That's why sorcerers use Cha too. Their innate magic didn't make them just smooth talkers, they have a strong, forceful personality and use it to cast their shit. Wisdom is insight and perception, which wouldn't help much in resisting powerful influence of eldritch nonsense.

With the exception of one being wise enough to not bother with such pacts in the first place.

>>51279581

Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul. Then Cyric, a mortal, killed Bhaal and stole his godhood and Myrkul died and so did Bane and they're all back now because the FR Pantheon is a cape comic.

>>51279514
City of Brass is general D&D lore borrowed by FR.

>>51278707
CMD/CMB is garbage, this is known. The rest is either dealing with personal tastes or papered over with homebrew/mindcaulk/3rd party material. Like most any TTRPG system, honestly.

>>51278730
People who fetishize the concept like that anon did tend conflate the two, tbdesu

>>51277576
religion doesn't have to be evangelical

>>51279452
Gods don't just gain power through direct faith (you are Bob, God of Burgers, and any prayer uttered in Your name powers you up), but also through people doing shit related to your domains (anytime someone makes a burger, you power up).

Cyric oversees shit like LIES and MURDER.
A lot of people tell lies and murder.
All of this feeds Cyric's power. Post-ToT, all he has to do is throw some magical bones to the people who lie and murder the most instead of hanging them out in the cold and supping on all their divine juices and he's golden.

>>51279581
They all got their powers by killing other deities and absorbing their portfolios. In the case of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, the most powerful of the gods in question (Jergal) basically let them kill him because he was really bored of staring at dead people all the time, the same way that dentists have huge suicide rates.

>>51279638
>Charisma in dnd is your force of willpower
Then why all saves that affect your willpower - fear, charm, hold person, the list goes on and on - require you to make a wis save?

>>51279688
>Gods don't just gain power through direct faith (you are Bob, God of Burgers, and any prayer uttered in Your name powers you up), but also through people doing shit related to your domains (anytime someone makes a burger, you power up).
>Cyric oversees shit like LIES and MURDER.
>A lot of people tell lies and murder.
>All of this feeds Cyric's power. Post-ToT, all he has to do is throw some magical bones to the people who lie and murder the most instead of hanging them out in the cold and supping on all their divine juices and he's golden.

Right but on top of that Gods like Lathandar and Sune (who should basically be the most powerful God in the setting based on Elminster being a lecherous old man alone) get power from the actual prayers and faith of their faithful. Yet Cyric is still dangerous enough to need a prison despite having few worshippers (Or he SHOULD have few worshippers but FR has never had a problem with absolutely retarded organizations of cultists) relative to the Good Gods. And then there's Shar. How Shar has a church is beyond me, her explicit goal is to destroy all of reality. Actually how Shar is still -alive- is beyond me, you'd think all the other Gods would just kill her and dismember her essence to keep her from getting back up like what happened to...Moander, I think?

>>51279688
>They all got their powers by killing other deities and absorbing their portfolios

The trio got their powers by being HANDED power. That's the important thing to remember: they're welfare babbys, who earned nothing. The DM just plain got bored and decided to go full Monty Haul in a fit of randomness.

That sort of thing exemplifies what I find so unbearably shitty about FR: the gods did nothing to earn their power, but no matter how much power you earn, they can slap you down instantly. Unearned power *always* trumps earned power.

And they aren't even a higher class of being; they're just dudes, exactly like your PC, who got lucky one day. And if you don't grovel before that great power they did nothing to earn, then they will use that great power to torture you for all eternity. Great.

>>51279774
Shar is an OG like Selune. She was around before the fucking planet was. The other other gods who predate those two are a buncha dead nobodies and Akadi/Grumbar/Istishia/Kossuth.

>>51279355
Funny you should say that!
6E design is moving towards having just three archetypes; Fighter, Rogue and Magic-User. You can mix and match to create any class you want, it's a DIY approach I think you guys will enjoy it.
Every one of these archtypes gets a "Pick one of these six features" on level up, each feature representing a different ability score. It's also built around branching off into other archetypes rather than the clunky multiclassing or railroad path system

>>51279511
Kender, and also everything revolves around the Heroes of the Lance to an annoying degree, and the setting is always changing in ways that render it unplayable, to the point where nobody even entertains the notion of playing in Krynn's "present day." FR also has too many cataclysms and a little too much focus on its main characters, but it's nowhere near as bad as in Krynn.

>>51279614
You underestimate the power of kender to derail a campaign and draw the hatred of everyone else at the table. A gnome's stereotypical habits (building gadgets and talking to animals) are at least benign. A kender's stereotypical habits (stealing from his friends and then lying about it to their faces) actively antagonize the other people at the table.

>Elminster
>Classes: Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 9/Wizard 24/Archmage 5
What the fuck?
>>51279815
I mean that there is no actual difference to how players will play a kender and how players will play a gnome. Both classes attract the same troublemakers.

>>51279801

And that means jack shit in FR because of how often Gods are killed. The original Mystra, born of Selune and Shar both, got killed by one dumb mortal. There's nothing stopping the other Gods from gangbanging her to death. Even an excuse like 'Gods don't brawl directly' doesn't work because I well remember Selvetarm and Vhaerun throwing down in the Spiderdome when Vhaerun tried to murder Lolth.


> the same way that dentists have huge suicide rates.

Also anon, God discussions aside my dad's a dentist and he's been down in the dumps for a month now. You just made me realize some things and might have just helped a son save his father's life. Thank you, and I gotta go.

>>51279773
I didn't make the game, the cross seems wonky to me too. But why else would pallys and sorcs get Cha bonuses to their stuff? They're such good talkers they hit harder? Ok. You could also think of it as the more persuasive warlock is better at not getting destroyed by their patron/convinces them for greater power.

>>51279773
Charisma comes into play when an effect would (a) override your personality (Zone of Truth, Symbol of Hopelessness, Calm Emotions) and (b) effects which have to deal with driving out someone's spirit or their presence on a plane (Plane Shift, Hallow, Magic Jar, Divine Word). I wouldn't use the word "willpower" for that myself, but I could see how someone might.

>>51279848
Bear in mind that for three quarters of the game development Warlocks were intended as an Int class. Don't draw too many conclusions from them being charisma based, because it really was a last minute thing.

>>51279796
BB+M weren't just sitting around in a park one day when Jergal wandered up and said, "Here, you're Gods now." They were adventurers who amassed huge amounts of personal power and wealth, even having slain a number of lesser demigod-esque entities. Their exploits are what made Jergal pick and test them further before offing himself and deifying them.

Many other Gods are coalesced entities who were never mortal but were instead created out of whole cloth by the Universe / thought / Ao. There were originally hundreds, even thousands of them, but they ran around killing each other off until we're left with what we have today. Tempus killed like 100 other "war" powers of various sorts to be the big man he is.

>>51279839
gl bro

>>51279839
Godspeed anon. Godspeed.

I want to be an unoriginal twat and play a buff dude who punches things.

Assuming no homebrew and reflavoring only, which is better?
(As of now assuming gauntlets or similar that are reflavored Rapiers, 1d8, using Dual Wielder feat)
Straight Barbarian?
Fighter 2/Barbarian 18 for Dual Wielder style and Action Surge?
Fighter (Likely Battlemaster) all the way?
A Rogue dip for that fat Athletics Expertise?

>>51279904
Why rapiers when you could use flails

>>51279666
I'm not keen on the argument of "just homebrew/fix it yourself", it's like saying Bethesda games are great and flawless because you can just mod away the problems. No, the real problem is that those faults are there to begin with. As much as I love homebrewing, homebrewing to fix huge problems with a game system is like putting sprinkles on dog shit.

>>51279833
>gnomes and kender are equally annoying in practice
I disagree. Sure, some troublesome players are going to be gnomes by coincidence, but some players who should know better are going to play kender in troublesome ways *because it's in-character.*

>Elminster is OP
Still not as OP as Raistlin.

>>51279921
Same effective damage but if I do a Rogue dip they'd fit for Sneak Attack.

But if I don't do a Rogue dip then yes, I'd use Flails.

Any ideas for a Triton character? I'm bad with this stuff, but they seem like fun.

>>51279944
You could refluff the flails as being floppy hands too.

Very flavorful.

>>51279956
A brave explorer who reverse-sails the not-seas on his boat-with-wheels in search of exotic foreign lakes.

>>51279944
There's no reason to not allow flails to sneak attack.
If it's a 1d8 martial weapon with no other properties who gives a flying fuck, give it finesse and call it a day

>>51279944
>>51279979
>floppy hands
Full 20 Barbarian
Call yourself Ivar the Boneless

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>>51279996
Bonus points if youre playing a skeleton

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>>51279979
You say that but I don't think you understand the destructive power of floppy hands.

>>51279980
This is cute.

>>51277839
He doesn't deserve fun, ignore him.
Actually, unfriend him. He sounds insufferable.

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>>51279980
>bunch of Triton pirates ravaging the countryside from the back of a massive wagon larger than two barns put together

>>51279980
Awww. Does he have a remora who clings to his shoulder like a parrot?

>>51279922
Well a lot of our games are dogshit, fampai.

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dead thread
dead game

>>51279638
Wisdom is will. In 3rd edition the wisdom save was called the will save. I know this isn't third anymore but still, it's not like any of the flavor or what requires a will save has changed.

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I posted this a few times before, but haven't gotten too much feedback after I reworked it. Any criticism is appreciated.

Is it too strong?

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>>51277758
I use this personally and alter it as needed.

>>51280418
I think I was getting it confused with 4e descriptions, where both wis and cha were put towards will saves.

>>51280524
I made a D&D 5e version of it but I seem to have lost it. If there's interest I'll make one up again real quick

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>>51280524
nvm totes found it

>>51280419
>Is it too strong?
Yes. It would shit all over Deep Stalker, for example

Also I'm not sure what the theme is besides "badass stabby guy"

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>>51277402

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>>51280549

>>51280605
Well, Deep Stalker isn't exactly what I'd call a strong conclave to begin with when compared to Hunter.

The theme I'm going for is a skirmisher. Think a rogue-ranger hybrid, who focuses on darting in and out of combat to assist his squad/party/etc.

What exactly would you say is the thing that pushes it past being balanced?

>>51280419
For the first ability, what exactly do you mean by vulnerable?
Also does the 11th level skill mean all monsters or only the ones you hit?

>>51280704
As in, double damage dealt. It's a placeholder at the moment, since I'm trying to come up with something good for a first ability that isn't just "you get extra damage".

The intent was all creatures, perhaps I should put a range limit on it though. Like 30 feet.

>>51280704
Vulnerable is always x2 damage, just like resistance is 1/2 damage.

I love most of 5E's mechanics but I hate the idea of long rest resources. I don't want to build adventures around attrition and whittling down PCs over multiple fights. I don't want casters blowing all their spells early in the day and demanding rest so they can be at peak efficiency. I hate how even a mid to high level party can get wiped by goblins if they've run out of hit points and hit dice. I want to tweak things to make every encounter challenging, to test the full extent of the characters' and players' resources, ingenuity, and teamwork.

What's the best way to go about this without having to play a completely different game?

>>51277304
I agree, but that opinion will only get you shown out of this board.

>>51277551
Tell me about it, I've a Rogue in my group that constantly doesn't know what they need to roll for their damage.

>>51277637
This is something that I feel is sort of missing in this edition. A Priest. The classic healing-focused spellcaster in robes.
Cleric isn't quite the same since it's basically a spellcasting watered down Paladin that's still mildly competent in melee combat.

>>51280807
So you want a Cleric, but stripped of it's Medium armor proficiency.

>>51280859
With more powerful healing to compensate. If you're made of paper and weak offensively then you should be stronger in the healing role.

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>>51277241
What do you guys think of replacing 4d6 drop lowest with 4d4+3? Or 5d4?

>>51277800
Phuck you
Planescape/planescape based setting or Spelljammer. No exceptions.

>>51280895
You realize you're just describing a Life Cleric who chooses to wear robes instead of armor, right?

>>51280903
>not 3d4 exploding

>>51280962
>rolled 13, 11, 10, 10, 6, 8

Jesus anon I'm trying to make adventurers, not cripples

>>51280807
>basically a spellcasting watered down Paladin
>what are domains
Where is your forge/arcane/knowledge/tempest paladin?

>>51279839
Well shit hope he feels better soon.

>>51279813
Fake and gay.

>>51279833
>>51279938
I'd not really say Elminister is OP, power is relative and he's immensely underpowered.

>>51280749
>I hate how even a mid to high level party can get wiped by goblins if they've run out of hit points and hit dice.

Uhhh... this seems like a totally meaningless complaint, and I'm not even sure how to contend with this level of entitlement mentality.

Exactly WHY shouldn't a party with no hit points or resources left be able to be killed by goblins?

>I want to tweak things to make every encounter challenging, to test the full extent of the characters' and players' resources, ingenuity, and teamwork.

but you contradict yourself, you JUST SAID you hate the idea of PCs being able to be challenged by low level monsters, even if they've ran out of hit points.

Tucker's Kobolds piss me off, but it sounds like ordinary kobolds, using strategies like "walk over and shank you," would piss you off just as much.

>>51280807
The original playtest Light domain was awesome, and not unlike a 4e invoker reborn in terms of style (light or no armor and damage focused)

>>51280807
Take a dip in monk, reflavor yourself as your wisdom (faith, whatever) guiding you out of harm in addition to your dex.

Hit people with your staff you can now use as a dex weapon.

Go further in monk? Take sun soul or tranquility.

>>51280419
Yes, kind of. And it's just weird besides that.

>Move ten feet and attack, then your next attack will deal double damage
First of all, as you have it written, you can do that with a ranged weapon. So you don't even have to risk opportunity attacks.

>spend 10 minutes to grant 8-hours protection against fear saves
First of all, worded weird. But if it takes 10 minutes and lasts 8 hours and doesn't have a limit on its usage, why not just have it be "you and allies within X range have advantage on saving throws against being frightened"?

>Infighter
So basically you get a free attack +15-20 damage once per turn. That is ridiculously powerful.

For context, Holy Nimbus deals 10 damage to each creature within 30 feet once per round for up to a minute, and you can do that once per long rest. This feature deals 1[W] + Strength or Dexterity + 15 when you're hit by an attack, and it doesn't even cost your reaction.

>>51280693
Skirmishers Stealth, Reinforced Armor, and Brutal tactics are all quite strong. You can probably get away with one, maybe two with tweaks, but not all three. If Brutal Tactics can give your allies double damage then a wizard or rogue will start 1-shotting things with it. Reinforced armor's 24/7 resistance plus the ability to choose the damage type is almost Legendary item good. Skirmishers Stealth is getting Blur every round for free without expending an action, spell slot, or using concentration. All very powerful things.

Also Brutal Tactics doesn't quite read cleanly to me. Is the vulnerability applied to the attack that applies it, or the attack following it? Also "when you hit a creature" should probably be "when you hit THAT creature" otherwise it sounds like you can apply the vulnerability to a creature other than the one you've targeted, as long as you've moved towards the targeted creature.

But I'm just a fag with an opinion, homebrew away

>>51281213
>>51281249
I appreciate the input! So, in short

1. Change Brutal Tactics and Infighter, combined with Skirmisher's Stealth and Reinforced Armor, it's too strong.

2. Potentially remove Morale Booster or reword it.

3. Tweak Reinforced Armor/Skirmisher's Stealth to balance them together.

I definitely want to play a paladin of the Oath of Jack Fuckery. Dirtbag paladins are a favorite archetype of mine from 4e, and one of the few things from Game of Low Fantasy Rapes that seems relevant to RPGs.

>>51280749
Start your PC's off at level 10.
Have them fight exclusively bosses with legendary actions.

2 shields

>>51281403
3 shields

>>51281006
>rolled 6, 13, 19, 6, 9, 7
Uhhh, just roll better. :^)
The DM doesn't believe in killing characters, so I hope you're happy with that mumbling autist.

Do undead get banished to the shadowfell?

>>51281429
Does Shield on back give you AC?

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>Lowborn Conquest paladin who feels the strong have a kind of noblesse oblige to shepherd and protect the weak
>Has no second thoughts about being merciful to weaklings or the just, generally only killing someone if they threaten the countryside
>Wants to bring justice to those who abuse power, improve quality of life for the peasantry and eventually become the swolest atop a world of strength
What alignment should this character be? "Might Makes Right" is the basis for 90% of evil shit in D&D, but would that matter if you still did good things?
Picture mostly unrelated except for STR

how to make versatile weapons less shitty to fighters? i find it very shitty that all the offense fighting styles are sorta weapon specific and none focus on versatility. longswords are historically two-handed, yet that's the worst way to use them in 5e.

>>51281403
>>51281429
Seriously though, is there a rule this edition that says you can only use shield+weapon, shield+nothing, weapon+weapon or weapon+nothing? Or could I play a four-armed race and have weapon+weapon+weapon+weapon?

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>>51280903
>Rolling for stats
Just use the standard array or point buy.

>>51281505
>Not shield+shield+shield+shield
>Eat my 28 ac fuckboy

>>51281505
There is no four armed playable race so at that point your DM is making up rules anyway

>>51281505
>Or could I play a four-armed race and have weapon+weapon+weapon+weapon?
The problem with that is that there are no official four-armed races. If they made one they would probably have a racial trait that explored that and/or gave an exception to that rule.

>>51281476
Whichever you want. Remember, the same PC can qualify as his choice of LG, CG, CN, LN, or LE, if his behavior is in accordance with society, his conscience, his whims, his code, and he takes what he wants within the limits of his code.

>>51281505
You only have 1 bonus action to make an extra attack with no matter how many arms you have

Also you can only benefit from 1 shield at a time

>>51281505
>Not Dual Wielding Greatswordsr

The fuck on outta here you halfassed bugman.

If I play a Duergar ranger and become a Primeval Guardian can I use my Enlarge ability to turn myself into a Huge creature?

What if I get someone to cast Enlarge on me?

>>51281582
That is legitimately good advice.
Thanks, man.

>>51281608
Does enlarge stack? I don't think so.

How bad would it be to play a changeling who's sole purpose is to imitate and improve on the prettiest people he can find, until they're the most attractive mortal alive?

>>51281608
No. You grow to a large size when you use it, unless you are bigger.
Tiny? You'll be large
Large? You'll be large

>>51281638
Shit I was thinking of it as a completely different ability. Shame.

Any other ways to increase my size?

>>51281476
Probably N or LG. He believes in justice/has a code, and helping the weak is generally a good characteristic.

>>51281648
But once I'm transformed the spell increases my size by one category.

>>51281640
You basically gonna be a Thai ladyboi?

Also beauty is subjective so might have some troubles there

>>5128164
Well its a turbo underpowered Eberron race, so...

Oh, RP wise? Seems okay.

>>51281677
I was thinking more like Gaston.

>>51281687
I don't think that's Gaston though. Gaston thinks he's the shit regardless of what anyone else says. This changeling sounds like they'd be the most insecure person in history, constantly looking to imitate others because they will never be good enough

But idk senpai maybe Im reading it wrong

>>51281548
Might be hard to imagine but some groups like rolling stats

>>51280749
Then you haven't paid attention to the tools given to players. At low levels, plan your encounters to be something that's going to be about an even match for your players without using long rest "consumables", so that the few they do have are a competitive edge that lets them win. Don't just add combat for the sake of combat. Combat in every system is boring at best, a tedious chore at worse. Trading numbers with dice is fucking boring. Give it a purpose. Don't fight the systems, fight the creatures. Give the players a win condition that is beyond the fight. Set up a big magical bomb and give them a physical time limit with an hourglass on the table to disarm it or the whole building gets sucked into another plane. The more emphasis you put on the numbers, the worse an encounter it is.

It's YOUR responsibility to actively balance encounters as they progress. There's a crapload of tools and lore to do this. A swarm of goblins might whittle your players down to 0hp, TPK them....but it's not the end because the fluff goes out of its way to push the idea that goblins want to CAPTURE and ENSLAVE people, so your players are no good to them dead. Stick them in a labor camp, force them to come up with some way to escape. Give them the option to fail, then roll with it. Maybe the goblins sell the players off to some local bads who then offer to hire the players to do some bad stuff. If the players agree and betray or fail to honor the agreement, have them be hunted by a larger, shadowy organization.

If you're playing 5e like it's some sort of offline MMO that's just about combat with big monolithic encounters, you've completely missed the point. Challenge your PCs by making them choose between Boss-killing abilities, swarm-killing abilities, and non-combat abilities. Give them the chance to avoid fighting by using abilities. Reward creativity.

>>51281733
I like rolling for stats because
>EVERYONE'S SPECIAL IN EQUAL MEASURE
doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Might as well just use pre-generated characters fampai

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My players keep bring up critical roll and wanting to play the gunslinger class.

The current campaign is explicitly set in a early renaissance setting not vaguely mediaeval time period so I don't have a problem with firearms in my games, but I do have one with fan content.

How retarded is it?

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>>51281769
>that guy that makes like 4 characters because he didn't roll straight 18s
>that guy that randomly always gets straight 18s
>that guy that walks up to the table saying he rolled his stats last night
>that guy that asks if he can use the stats from his last character with straight 18s
>that guy that asks if he can re-roll his stats, then asks if he can take the array if that one is shit too
Stop rolling for stats.

>>51281769
We prefer rolling as well but I wanted to change up the 4d6 roll to better enforce a minimum stat. If you roll a low stat and the DM's all "just reroll it" it kind of feels like you're just rolling until you get high stats

Maybe we'll just enforce a limited number of rerolls or something

>>51281817
Stop playing with faggots

>If you roll a low stat
Low stats aren't bad though, they make characters unique. If you're letting players rearrange their stats you shouldn't be re-rolling anything desu

>>51281769
I despise rolled stats because it shits on the old school ethos while pretending to be new school.
In OD&D, a dude with straight 3s is way way WAY more playable than a 3e, 4e, or 5e dude with straight 11s. In TSR editions, stats generally give +1 or -1, which is still a big deal. In WotC editions, the bonus range normally reserved for ExStr is distributed across all time and space, meaning slight differences in luck catastrophically fuck up your character for all time.

So yeah, fuck the new school ethos of stats making the character.

I always roll with 1 in each stat because I'm not some casual.

>>51281769
I concur, I like rolling stats. Its amazing when a total sped of a character manages to survive the life of an adventurer.

>>51281817
>playing with That Guys
>That Guy behaviour a reason to not do X
u wot?

If you are really terrified of bad results, let them roll 4d6k3 and do it 7 times instead of 6 and let them drop 1.

>>51281902
Congrats on being a tabletop hipster

>>51281791
>Literally McCree's port of the Pathfinder class
If your players really want a "ebin trickshot marksman" Fighter, just have them play a Battlemaster (Or Scout, or Monster Hunter from the UAs) with a gun. The Gunslinger introduces a cumbersome amount of new rules baggage for firearms on top of additional bookkeeping for the player.

>>51278796
It's better than throwing a level away.

>>51281829
2d6+6 is your friend here. You eliminate those sub 8 rolls, but you still end up with a varied array.

>>51281902
>fuck the new school ethos of stats making the character

Are we forgetting how in old editions your stats literally decided what classes you could and could not play?

>>51281791
There is a reason why people hate misfire rule in Pathfinder. Porting it to 5e is a bad idea.

>>51282018

Not in OD&D, BECMI or B/x, and something like a paladin-cavalier or barbarian in 1e with all their fancy stat requirements was unlikely to be notably mechanically superior to a humble elf fighter mage with 9 int, 9 str, and whatever else.

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Question from the previous thread:

I've scoured the official trove and a few others, but I can't for the life of me find more than 1 or 2 PDFs from Dungeon Masters Guild. Anyone know where I can get them?

>>51281791
Misfire rules are pretty bad, but considering the idea behind it (these are the first "successful" handheld firearms created) I can understand why.

Personally I'd toss them out and just make sure the person is aware that they are going to have to spend in-game time and money to find the materials and black powder needed to make his ammo.

>>51278189
You can also make really sympathetic backgrounds for people they are careless about. Or they have relative/child/ spouse/ seek them out in revenge.

One GM told a story in another thread where they regularly do that to curb their players murder hobo ways.

They killed a half orc guard. They were then told about how that guard was two weeks away from retirement. His wife and young son were waiting at home for him to return that day.

The group actually went out to their way to seek forgiveness for his death. They turned it into a campaign they followed for a while.
I thought it was cute.

>>51281880
> 4 CHA
> "special"

>>51281902
Hi Spoony

>>51281880
>stop playing with faggots
anon, this is why nobody plays with you

>>51282053
>>51282018
Also: there are actually only a very VERY few classes that are high stat hogs that are actually worth giving a shit over.

That would be:
1. druids (very low XP requirements + some occasionally stupidly OP spells, like Heat Metal simply wipes out a group of NPCs, no save, they're simply incapacitated for days),

2. 2e illusionist gnomes (gnomes can't be unspecialized mages, so you legitimately can't have a wizard of the genuinely good gnomish race, and multiclassed with very high level limits)

3. 1e bards (potentially very very good, never have even heard of anyone wanting to play one other than a few weeks ago, never talked to anyone who has seen one)

4. dual classing/character with two classing (at least one level of cleric or fighter is probably smart for most human PCs)

They're such corner cases that I don't compare them at all, while, say, a half elf ftr-mu-clr is both very forgiving in terms of stat requirements and boasts a lot of power to spare, while not taking much longer than other PCs to level.

>>51281925
Now you are rolling for above average stats. Which mean all encounter need to be adjuat according, which means more work load for the DM.

Roll stats are just a stupid legacy that they put in to appease autistic older edition players.

>>51282031
> Misfire Rule

How do the rules work in pathfinder? Because I do kinda think it's necessary to keep guns balanced. There's a reason why we didn't go from muskets to Glock 17s overnight.

>>51282147
We have pretty much the opposite mindsets actually.

>>51282172
yea and we don't have wizards IRL either, what's your point?

>>51282172
DMG Renaissance Guns have the Loading feature, and there's no "gun mastery" feat to remove it, so guns are balanced by the fact that you're not getting more than 1 attack with them per round.

>>51277241
Would your average /tg/ DM allow a player to make a goblin with the knight background and have his retainers be elf slaves? I like the idea and I'd like to see how it plays out with the rest of the party (no elves)

>>51282172
Balanced in terms of ... what? Mechanically, there is no big deal of even letting WW1 era firearms into your game. In addition to all the problems ranged PCs suffer (like their tendency to be only useful at the beginning of most encounters and then suffering serious problems), they also have the issue of having horrifyingly bad stealth, waking up the entire dungeon the first round, etc.

>>51282186
> talking about game balance
>brings up caster supremacy

The point is keeping martial classes from being obsolete.... At least not trying to make them even more pointless

>>51282221
I find the idea of one goblin keeping control of two elves silly. Conditioning can only go so far.

>>51282221
No because your average /5eg/ DM isn't fond of the monstrous races from Volo's.

Personally I'd allow the Elf retainers as indentured servants, but not as slaves unless we're doing an evil campaign.

>>51282239

>The point is keeping martial classes from being obsolete

With or without advanced firearms, the biggest damage dealer will be a melee faggot.
With or without advanced firearms, the best ranged character will be a wizard faggot.
With or without advanced firearms, the best ranged WEAPON character will STILL be an arcane archer.
There is no "niche" that even a user of advanced firearms dominates.

>>51279980
This is exactly why I asked /tg/. This sounds hilarious. What class?

>>51282266
>>51282221
Is there anything particularly great from Volos?

>>51282274
>implying the best ranged weapon user isn't a handcrossbow battlemaster fighter

>>51282291
The majority of the book is a wonderful resource for DMs, but the playable races overall are fairly lackluster, with Aasimar, Tabaxi, Triton, and Yuan-Ti Pureblood standing out above the rest.

>Noble background
>except you're one of the retainers trying to keep your idiot lord alive after he got bored and decided to become an adventurer

>>51282210
Where could I find DMG's books anyway?

>>51282328
What are PF battlemaster fighters like? I didn't know there were such a thing.

>>51282342
This isn't a bad idea.

>>51282172
So the Misfire rules are that if you roll that number or below (usually a 1 or 2) the gun jams and you have to spend your next Action (ie., your next full turn) trying to un-jam it with a skill check. And if you fail said check, the gun's straight up busted and won't work until you can spend out-of-combat time and money to repair it.

And all you get out of it is a damage die increase of 1-2 sizes compared to a Longbow depending upon the firearm.

There are firearms in the DMG that are worth looking into if you have a player who wants to use the archetype, you may just have to work with them on balancing it out a bit.

>>51282342
>Sir we can't fight a dragon.
>For one you can barely swing the greatsword you insist on using.
>And for another, I'm fairly sure these healing potions are actually punch of some kind

>>51282359
I'm talking about the Dungeon Master's Guide, not the guild website.

If you weren't actually confused about that, I direct you to the OP, with the Official Trove MEGA link.

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>>51282392
>tfw had my gun jam 3 times in one combat, then botched the save on the last check

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>shield in left hand
>shield in right hand
>shield on back
>shield on chest
>buckler on top of helmet
>buckler in FRONT of helmet with little eyeholes
>shield on your shield
>pavise shield for deployment
>riding a chariot covered in shields
>horses also have shields
>tavern brawler
>shield master
>dual wielder
come at me fuckbois

>>51282456
Too bad shield bonus doesn't stack.

>>51282456
>roll vs 12 AC

>>51282456
I cast Heat Metal

>>51282500
>He's not wearing little fiberglass shields inside his armor
>[Cough cough]

>>51281791
Why not just play a gunsmith alchemist?

>>51282533
They probably don't want to play a caster.

>>51281944
Yes just make pistols part of the character more than a class that just attack with them.
Like figthers shooting and drawing a bunch of guns before clossing in melee.
Or using a rifle with bayonete with PAM.
Or sniper rogue.

>>51282554
Well tell them is op, and that mercer's gunslinger is not.

>>51282148
>Oh my god you won't let me play a character with all ability scores above 16 without watching me roll? What is your problem?
Don't be a cheating fuck. Only 2 or 3 ability scores really matter in any class, you could literally be 18, 18, 18, 4, 4, 4 and be little worse off than someone who rolled straight 18s.

I honestly don't care what you rolled, if I saw you roll straight 18s great, amazing because that's like a 1 in 100 billion chance, but I'm not going to be butthurt. If you roll something like 14, 11, 10, 10, 8, 6 than I won't mind you rerolling at all. But demanding that I let you keep ability scores you rolled privately is an asshole move and a poor sign of your potential cooperation. Even if 3 of your abilities don't matter the idea that you are willing to cheat is a very bad sign.

Pretty much if you roll average ability scores on average in private I probably won't mind. If you roll very well in front of me I won't mind, but if you roll very well without a witness and then act as though I am being a monster for asking you to reroll in front of me than you can go to hell.

>>51282500
they're wooden

>>51281880
Sure, but it can also be really tedious to be the guy who didn't get a single good stat. Most games don't get further than two ASI, so it's entirely possible to end up with a character who will be straight up rubbish the entire campaign.
My table is point buy only, we've all had enough bad experiences with rolled stats.

>>51282646
Yeah, but the armor's not.

>>51282364
?

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The oathbreaker paladin class looks pretty balanced and seems to be more of an actual a legit character option than an punishment for falling.

Should I include it as an player option off the bat?

>>51282660
Play with more reilable people so your games make it past 2 ASIs then.

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>>51278630
Ranger or druid?

>>51282729
If you want to deal with Evil PCs, go for it.

>>51282729
Depends on party composition. The mechanics are no more evil than a Warlock excluding controlling another person's undead once per day until you hit level 7 and buff undead that you can't summon yourself, and 9 when you can summon undead where you become no more evil than any necromancer.

>>51282765
Why are all oathbreakers evil anyway? Couldn't you break your oath just by being too lazy to actually uphold it? You don't need to be evil to do that.

Would you allow a paladin to expend a 5th level animate dead to create (then maintain) Elite Skeletons, but only 2 of them. Instead of the 8 regular skeletons.

The player I have isn't interested in having a large group and just wants 2 skeleton bros but that are half decent.

If you did allow it, how would you modify the skeletons?

My first thought was use the bandit captain CR2 and change the template slightly to mix the skeleton stats in.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Please /tg/ you are my only hope.