/srg/ - Shadowrun General

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Drop your favorite cyberpunk art

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>Drone Edition

What are some of the best drones for a boot rigger?

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>>51210399

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>>51210479

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>>51210399

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>>51210550

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>>51210494

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>>51210181
>hovertext says 7 replies, 7 images

>maybe this image board can actually post images with their conversation for once

>nope, artdump

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>be GM
>starting new campaign
>talk with group about what setting they want
>unanimously agree on Tokyo 2075
>start game
>quickly discover one character can't speak Japanese, doesn't even have linguasofts
>ask player wtf
>"I didn't want my character to be weeb"

>>51210443
>boot rigger

The Festo Snake.

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>>51210854
So are they playing a white guy in Japan? That's super weeb, do him a favour and kill off his character.

>>51210845
check the last thread in the OP
this image dump is the exception, not the norm

>captcha: drive cochran
no chummer, I won't travel at warp anything
I don't even have spirits here

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>>51210685
That's a good point. Does Cal-free still burst into flames every summer? Or did the Awakening fix that?

>>51210919
Check the post you're replying to.
>for once

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>>51210181
What's the best resources for running an SR game

This shit looks complex as fuck, but I want to play and never will get to unless I'm the person running

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>>51210989
Hayek Sheets and the other stuff /srg/ has set aside and made easily available. Don't be a retard and ask where, it's right in this thread.

>>51210989
CHECK THE MOTHERFUCKING OP
download chummer/chummer5
visit the pastebin and get yourself the GM advice
go to the mediafire and mega and download the relevant rulebooks

and most importantly
LURK
MOAR

>>51210989
Grab the corebook, the cheatsheet, and the food fight module. Start there. Discourage players from playing deckers, technomancers, or mages (aspected mages are probably fine) for their first character - every other archetype is probably fine, though riggers might bog things down a bit of they have lods of edron. If your party (hopefully) lacks a decker/technomancer or a mage, you can introduce a NPC to handwave that stuff for the early sessions. As they get a better grip on the system, then introduce magic/matrix in a player capacity.

>Get girlfriend into PnP RPGs
>Start with d20 games, like D&D and Pathfinder
>Finally build up the courage to ask her to try Shadowrun
>She makes a Mage with the Wicca tradition, since is Wiccan IRL
>Create 6 different NPCs she can take with her on runs since she's the only player
>Watch as she gets attached to an Elf whose a former SpecOps operative.
>Every weapon the Elf uses comes from Ares
>She begins a romantic relationship with this character
>Play the same campaign for a year before dropping hints that one of the NPCs, which has become her character's family more or less, has been a spy for Ares
>Knight Errants start showing up at just about every job they run
>Around this time, Girlfriend's character and the Elf get engaged
>Girlfriend takes a run from an Renraku Mr. Johnson to sabotage an Ares warehouse
>Girlfriend takes the Elf SpecOps guy, the Troll Demolitions Expert and the Ork Street Samurai
>This is suppose to be Girlfriend's final run, she plans to retire the character so she can live a normal life with the Elf
>Knights Errant show up towards the end of the run
>Elf SpecOps guy reveals he's an Ares Operative and kills the Ork and Troll before blowing out Girlfriend's kneecaps and leaving her for dead
>Girlfriend now wants to continue the campaign because she's pissed at me and the Elf

>>51210989

Cloud File Storage in the OP, there's a Superbook in one of the links that is basically a big cheat sheet. The mechanics aren't actually all that complicated, it's density rather than complexity. The setting itself is rather complex and will require some reading.

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>>51210989

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>>51211057

I'm honestly curious if you considered the outcome of your cunning plan.

>>51211272
I always intended on him working for Ares. I didn't plan for her to get so attached to the character though. I am currently sleeping on the couch until she is no longer mad at me.

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>>51211295
Well good on ya for sticking through it.

Really man, that Elf must be hot shit when it comes to Con tests, to successfully convince your gf that he reciprocated. Thats cold man.

>>51211344
>implying the Elf didn't fall for her too

>implying the elf isn't going to have a dramatic change of heart when she finally catches up to him, rescuing her at the last minute and professing his true love, possibly taking a bullet for her

>implying the elf won't make a successful recovery and live out his life happily with the Wiccan

>implying anon will ever get laid again if this doesn't happen

>>51211344
>>51211400
The Elf, whose name is Arathyen, is a stealth based sniper character who also happens to be blended with the Face. He either uses pistols or sniper rifles, depending on what the job requires.

Thing is, my girlfriend is unsure if he returns the feelings or not. Mostly because Arathyen is VERY skilled at lying, as displayed when he managed to talk his way into meeting with the leader of a Mafia family so the team could get close enough to take the guy out. He can literally lie his way into just about any location.

Once the team needed to get into a UCAS Military Base. Arathyen convinced the guards that the team's human, a Rigger named Bob, was actually a military general sent to inspect the base's armory.

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>>51211400

>implying the Elf wasn't a die hard Ares man the whole time

>implying he isn't going the be the main antagonist of a revenge campaign

>implying he isn't going to try one last Con roll to convince the Wiccan that he was just being forced to turn against her

>implying she wont let down her guard one last time and he puts a bullet in her heart

So, I know that the Corps basically rule the world, but, as far as government is concerned: How are the goblinized? Is it possible to have a Troll Senator?

>>51211497

Theres an Ork whose president of Tir Tairngire

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>>51211497
>Is it possible to have a Troll Senator?

Yes, but unlikely. Some parties are more open to metahumans, and some constituents are more likely to vote for them, but they have an uphill battle against stereotypes. There are a few canonical tuskers in political office.

>>51211514
Puppets don't count, anon.

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So I've finally buckled down to learn how a decker works in 5e, and I've got to say it feels like they're always fighting at a disadvantage.

> GOD starts tracking you from the first illegal action performed, regardless of if a host or icon notices you or not
> Marking a host either requires passing difficult rolls from a distance or easier rolls on site at the risk of getting caught in the meat
> Hosts contain patrols that are constantly looking for you, endlessly spawning IC, and a spider if the place has any real concern for security
> Archives (AKA the place with the paydata is) are plain inaccessible in core
> You're probably trying to do all this alone; lets hope your team is protecting you in that necessary-to-keep-up coldsim (they're not.)
> Your deck ultimately limits the usable amount of attribute you have in combat, meaning that you need to chuck out about 350k at creation to make use of that 7 LOG

Someone want to clarify a few advantages to all this? I'd like to enjoy the playstyle, but somewhere along trying to understand it it seems I lost out on what the advantages are supposed to be.

So, I have a player with Acrobatic Defender, and he chose Dodging as his specialization.

So... Since Agile Defender allows you to use your Acrobatics skill in place of your Willpower...

Would he get +14 (6 agility, 6 gymnastics, 2 specialization in dodging) to his willpower roll? Or just 6 (Rating of his gymnastics), or +8 (To accomodate for his specialization)

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>>51211653
>> Marking a host either requires passing difficult rolls from a distance or easier rolls on site at the risk of getting caught in the meat

Intentional to prevent you from vandecking.

> Archives (AKA the place with the paydata is) are plain inaccessible in core

No, that's the super secret secure stuff, and only inaccessible if you don't bother to do any social engineering. You can still scoop up floppy disks full of paydata.

And the advantage is that a good decker gets ultimate control of the environment. 5e made everything hooked up to the Matrix wirelessly; a decker can control every door in a building, see through every camera and sensor, redirect every drone and send false alerts to every guard (if they don't just jack their 'ware directly if the goons trusted in the building's security to keep them safe). GOD is a timer so that you show up for the run, jump into cyberspace, and do your shit, instead of spending the legwork acquiring marks and then breezing through the actual run because you control everything (though you can do that as a Technomancer, because Matrix shenanigans are their thing).

Sure, you need someone to make sure your meatsuit doesn't get geeked, and you don't want to get into an endless fight with security, but the same is true of every runner. Hit hard, go fast, and leave a Data Bomb on your way out.

>>51211772
It would add his skill ranks and specialization, not his agility.

>>51211791
I can dig that it's the mood of the setup. The 40 cap on GOD getting their hyper-combo of biofeedback, gear reboot, and physical location broadcast just seems tight. The 15 minute roll timer they get doesn't worry me, that's an eternity on a run. The points they get on your rolls look like they would add up quick though.

Maxing cracking and electronics in the skill section seems obvious, and a sony ciy-720 seems like the standard creation choice. Are agents worthwhile at creation? What about the +2 from codeslinger?

>>51211772
Skill ranks and specialisation. You only add the attributes when making a specific test.

How viable is it to build a street sam that dabbles in drones? Probably forgoing the control rig, but getting a good RCC and some pilot/handling/targeting autosofts so the dog-brains aren't useless at laying down suppressing fire or firing off airburst grenades?

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>>51212018
Yes you can do it, but it's expensive as hell to get a good RCC while also covering you're 'ware. Get a couple high-rating commlinks for security (or ask the decker nicely to cover them) and put the autosofts in directly.

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I'm getting into Shadowrun right now, and wanted to ask any Street Sam/Bounty Hunter/Tank/Close Combat Char etc. etc. players, what were your biggest regrets with a character? Blow all your essence on useless augments? Mix up your priorities? Write a convoluted cringey backstory?

>>51212166

My biggest regret was joining a group that only gave a damn about Ghosting missions. I got to do a whole lot of sitting around looking threatening.

>Purchased 500 APDS rounds at CC because they can be annoying to purchase afterwards.

>Bring APDS rounds on every run

>Currently I have 480 APDS Rounds.

>>51212166
Got a gun-kata pistol adept who hits pretty high on the edge-o-meter. Mechanically he seems pretty sound though.

>>51211653
>necessary-to-keep-up coldsim
Play an adept AR decker if you can't keep up.

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>>51212166

>played a Face\Gunslinger who was also the team armorer and wheelman
>Dual heavy pistols with APDS
>Duel light pistols with hidden arm slides loaded with Narcoject
>another pair of heavy revolvers loaded with HiPower rounds
>very little cyber, and no init pass boosters
>had to compete with a physical adept literal ninja who hated guns, and had three init passes
>every combat becomes a competition
>me trying to kill everything in the room so the ninja has nothing to do
>I actually win this more often then not

My only regret on that campaign was that I lowballed my skills and spread out a lot - mostly because a huge chunk of my BP went into money, just so I could own every goddamn gun in the book (original concept was that the character was also a gun dealer on the side), AND a fully tricked out muscle car. Had my skills be higher, I probably would've succeeded in my lifes goal of making the Ninja absolutely fucking worthless in every combat encounter.

>>51212236
Got any good stories about him being absolutely awful?

>>51211497
Yes, though it's rather difficult.
From a practical perspective, the issue isn't race or metatype, it's money.
Example; Gary Cline, who is Horizon Inc's CEO and "face" so to speak is hugely popular and gets a lot of respect because he is rich as fuck, and rich as fuck wins you all kind of influence and friends in the Sixth World. Only ideologues care about metatype for it's own sake and it's rather notable that the world's most powerful people are under the opinion that ALL individual life, regardless of metatype, is equally valueless until it's proven to have worth.
Most orks and trolls have an issue of overcoming perceptions of being "poor" folk and thus associated with low society and crime.
>>51211537
>Puppets don't count, anon.
Larry Zincan isn't precisely a puppet, he's more like the real-life President of the United States in that his legal power is actually rather limited and that he can't really do anything if all the other members of the Council of Princes don't support him.

They barely support each OTHER anyway and the government is a freaking viper's nest, so really he's got the same position they do but with a fancier name.

>>51212508
Game just started, but I'll give you the cliffnotes.
>product of corp breeding program, trying to find genetic marker for magical ability
>roman numeral tattoo on face
>tattoos everywhere in general
>gun-kata
>longcoat
>potentially heading for dual-wielding
>used to have predujiced: police, but decided that was probably a bad plan

So he's not kill puppies for satan edgy, but still up there. I play him and I love it.

>>51211653
Honestly, we use somewhat different, less pointlessly convuluted rules at our house so I can't help you there, even though I AM our team's decker.

>>51212577
He sounds like a perfectly generic early 2000's videogame hero. Glad you're having fun Anon.

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>>51212577
>>51212359

>>51212685
Sort of, except not godawful.

What do you call those people in Shadowrun who use weird makeup and hairstyles to keep facial recognition software from working on them?

>>51212901
....masters of disguise?

Is there any good way to handle modular limbs in Chummer? I don't see an "installed" checkbox anywhere.

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>>51212920
No, these douchebags. Finally found the photo.

>>51212958
Idiots.

>>51212958
....there isn't a real word for them.

>>51210854
Dont despair fellow DM. Learning a language in SR is stupid fast and cheap. Plus room for hilarity when he inevitable fucks up his language check and insults the Johnson.

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>>51212901
Appropriately paranoid. SR gets around that issue by saying that fragmented jurisdictions, jealous guardians, and simple oversaturation of footage prevent a meaningful study that would allow someone to be traced via camera.

>>51212992
If they had known about facial recognition software back in the day, you can bet they'd have slang for the people who dodge it.

>>51213103
Facejammers

So, in real life, if you got a shotgun at point blank range, it's going to fuck someone up.

Looking at the Choke settings of shotguns, though, it looks like I'm pretty much just as good shooting someone form a 15 meters away as I am shooting them in Melee range.

Are shotguns really that shit? Or am I misreading a rule?

>>51213049, >>51213103
Are there any real rules for adobe facial recognition stuff at all?
I mean my runner has a ballistic mask so he basically doesn't need to worry about that sorta crap, but there you go.

>>51213248
Most shotguns even despite the AR bonus they'll give people you're shooting at do so much damage at any range that they'll fuck up a guy's day pretty bad so long as you have a decent Accuracy shotgun.

>>51211990
Codeslinger is generally too expensive for what it does. For 7 karma you can achieve the same or greater effect by taking a specialization in any matrix skill. You can stack Codeslinger on top of that for min-maxing, but it's not necessary.

Agents are as amazing as your GM allows because of how vague the rules are. Depending on GM interpretation, an idiot with 1 LOG that bought a fancy deck full of agents can beat a hacker character at CC by drowning them in dice. You should buy a rating 6 Agent at least.

>>51211030
>Discourage players from playing deckers, technomancers

Discouraging players from playing characters who interact with the Matrix in a meaningful way, cuts out about a third of Shadowrun's system and setting.

>>51213626
It's the same as discouraging newbie DnD players from playing casters. It will reduce their impact on the setting, and if no one plays one you'll lose some of the setting alltogether, but it makes the game go so much smoother.

>>51213681
I'd say that the matrix is a lot more confusing then magic-users in D&D. I'd also say it's even more important because otherwise you're not really running Shadowrun any more. I mean, what's cyberpunk without a hacker?

>>51214237
It's not actually all that important, just have it be done in the background with an NPC. No reason to force players into a role that noone wants to do or that noone understands.

In most pre-5e editions I'd almost exclusively vote for that option, hacking was so complex and obnoxious and time consuming that just removing the hackers from the PCs meant that they had more fun doing things while the computer stuff was done by the nerd squad elsewhere.

>>51214237

>I'd say that the matrix is a lot more confusing then magic-users in D&D.

So... you agree with him, right?


>I'd also say it's even more important because otherwise you're not really running Shadowrun any more.

Bullshit. Shadowrun has SO much more going on than just the Matrix. I agree that deckers and the Matrix are an integral part of the setting, but there's a lot more going on.

For a first time player you most definitely want to discourage them from fiddling with the Matrix rules, because they're hard to understand, and Shadowrun is already crunchy enough without them.

You'll be stopping every two minutes or so to explain something new to the guy, combat will take forever and a lot of things will go slow as shit in his first few games, and that's WITHOUT the Matrix rules. If you introduce the Matrix at this point, you'll make everything ten times slower and he will definitely get bummed out on the game.

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This is probably a stupid question, but is there a function on chummer to generate a character sheet in pdf format? If there is I can't find it for the life of me.

>>51214534
Go to print, and select Microsoft Print to PDF as your printer.

>>51214419
I don't usually like to introduce NPCs/DMPCs but I also don't necessarily disagree with you.

>>51214488
>So... you agree with him, right?
I agree that it's complicated but not that you should try to push people from playing a concept they want to play without good reason. My experience of a new player being a decker was honestly not that bad.

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>>51214566
>CtD whenever I try to hit Print

Goddammit I remember yekka saying something in the last thread about this.

>>51210709
tell me srg

how best to play as Kruger?

>>51214751
Just play a street sam with a crazy ruthless streak and a really crazy Sou'frican accent.

>>51214793
But is cybering up and going hard into guns and melee do able and be credit to team if they let me off the leash?

>>51214639
>but not that you should try to push people from playing a concept they want to play without good reason

It is a good reason, man. It's a great reason. You don't want a new player to be in over his head when learning a new system. He needs to learn the very basics of the system first, before diving into the more complicated subsystems.

>>51211912
>It would add his skill ranks and specialization, not his agility.

Obviously, only when it comes up for the specialization. You can add your rolling specialization when you dodge-roll out of the way dark souls style, but not when you leap or duck to safety.

>>51212166
>your biggest regrets with a character?
I trusted chummer *way* too much and used it as a crutch instead of adequately learning the character creation rules. I've had to retcon my characters' ware at least three times now for shit like being allowed to take used bioware (which is not legal). I'm probably going to have to re-do the file completely because some errors got stuck between updates.

My second biggest one was failing to keep karma and payouts recorded during a long hiatus.

My third biggest is not using my character to take greater advantage of the kookiness of shadowrun as a setting. You know, things like fluffing the microscopic cybereye vision as a little magnifying glass that pops out of the eye. Obviously there's a balance to be struck, but I feel like I cleft a little too close to the safe side and missed out on some fun stuff.

And it's not so much a character regret, but I took a very long time before I had the courage to learn the matrix rules. My belief that they were difficult was a self-fulfilling prophecy because it meant that I didn't make a serious effort for years.

>>51212901
>use weird makeup and hairstyles to keep facial recognition software from working on them?
>not keeping all skin covered when shit goes down
Shiggy diggy

>>51214946
>used bioware (which is not legal).
Yes it is. Used Muscle Toner 3 is fantastic on adepts.

>>51214734
Sonovabitch I found it. Last thread, yekka mentioned that the Grapple Gun triggers a Crash to Desktop when a character isn't trained in using it as an Exotic Skill. Same goes for the Micro Flare Launcher.

Exception text posted just in case it helps anyone in fixing it:

http://pastebin.com/yHyLsZzP

>>51214961
The cultured bioware, I mean. Stuff like cerebral boosters and mnemonic enhancers.

I guess that shows how far I still have to go in terms of learning the rules.

>>51214984
You are literally unable to take that in Chummer. I think you trust it more, not less, omae.

>>51211990
GOD only does that if your out on the matrix proper. In that case you're generally dealing with guys that have Firewalls under 4 (and the same for the resistance stats). You probably don't need to keep online once you're done, so you can reset fairly frequently.

In a host (I.E. what most people think of when they're talking about a decker's work), you get marked to max and IC comes. Unless you've been having lots of bad luck on your head or the GM's overestimating what Host you should be fighting, then you should be a turn or so away from finishing and resetting. Take dumpshock if you must.

Unless you're really cheezing things, most of the device rating 2 decks are actually fine. A limit of 5 means that you need around 15 dice to regularly go over that limit and you can have a 6 if you want with a program.

And a creation agent will max out at less than 10 dice. You might want one if the GM lets you get teamwork from it, but otherwise it's a bit of a vulnerability.

Or if you want to really put down Agents, get a Little Hornet and an Aztechnology Emissary. Slave the Hornet to the Emissary. (Optionally mod the Emissary to have 9 Firewall and 1 Attack). Enjoy having enough Firewall to laugh at agents, an okay starting line, and room for eight more things to get a sky high firewall.

>>51214997
I think you need to trust it more*

>>51214984
>The cultured bioware, I mean.
It's setting correct, but I don't recall anything in 5e written about it.

Okay, so i need someone to audit my knowledge of damage in SR5.

From what i know, first, you roll avoidance against the attackers hits. If the avoidance is lower than the guns hits (up to the accuracy limit) they get hit. If avoidance is above it, they aren't hit. Not sure on even. ties go to defender?

After that, you roll soak. If your soak roll is below net hits, you do all the damage as physical. If you do not, you do it all as stun.

Is that about correct? or am i missing something?

>>51214831
It's the standard Street Samurai build and fluff, so yes. A bit of stealth or fast talk/impersonate will go a long way, though. Sneaky muscle counts for a lot, because you can control the way a run goes a lot more easily. 1v1, you can beat just about anything, so the trick is keeping things under control.
>>51210989
If you can steal or find a copy of Visio, it's great for making office/facility layouts.

>>51214910
I guess when I said 'good reason' I was more referring to the concept being inappropriate for your game.

>>51215139
Missing a few things. Ties sorta go to the defender. Ties mean that you got nicked, but for all but a handful of kinds of ammo or attacks it's basically going to the defender. But, like, if somebody was trying to tag you with paint or a tracker, it's as good as being hit because it still got you (just a little).

If the Damage+net hits is greater than the defender's Armor-AP, then the damage left after the soak roll is physical if it started as physical. If the Armor-AP is greater than the damage+net hits, then whatever damage was left over after the soak roll is stun, regardless of if it was physical or stun to start with.

>>51215139
>From what i know, first, you roll avoidance against the attackers hits. If the avoidance is lower than the guns hits (up to the accuracy limit) they get hit. If avoidance is above it, they aren't hit.

Yup.

>Not sure on even. ties go to defender?

Yup.

>After that, you roll soak. If your soak roll is below net hits, you do all the damage as physical. If you do not, you do it all as stun.

Nope. After the attack has hit, you apply the net hits (after limit has been applied) to the damage value of the weapon.

Let's say I shoot at you with a light pistol with 7DV, and roll 3 net hits, or 3 hits over your defense hits. That means I deal 10 damage.

Now, you compare that damage to the armor value of the defender: it the armor value (NOT the physical resistance value, JUST the armor), modified by the attackers armor penetration total, is higher than the total damage being resisted, the damage is stun. If the damage is higher than the modified armor value the damage is physical.

Now, the defender rolls his physical resistance test, which is usually body + armor - attacker's armor penetration. Each hits reduces the attack by 1 box.

So continuing from the previous example: You're hit for 10 damage. Let's say for the sake of this example that the pistol has an armor penetration value of -1. You're wearing an armor vest, which has 9 armor. This armor value is modified to 8, since my gun has a -1 AP value. Compare the damage: 10 is bigger than 8, so the damage will be physical.

Now you roll your body (let's say 4) + the armor value (which is 9) - the attack AP (which is -1) to a total of 12 dice. You score 4 hits, which subtract from the total attack damage, that was 10. That means you take 6 boxes of physical damage.

It sounds a bit complicated, but in play it goes really fast once you're used to your dice pool numbers and all that. Combat is very lethal too, as you can see, so most encounters are over in three combat turns or less.

>>51214997
>You are literally unable to take that in Chummer
It let me take it two or three years ago when I made the character. It catches that particular mistake now, but it didn't back then (That file gives me problems with the newer versions because of some things like that. It won't let me do cyberlimb-housed sensor arrays with that file, for example). The point is that chummer is not perfect and you still need to understand the chargen rules because chummer might not catch all your mistakes.

>>51215078
>It's setting correct, but I don't recall anything in 5e written about it.
Core book page 460 "Cultured bioware must be tailor-made for the body in which it will eventually find a home". Simple logic means that used is impossible.

>>51215139
>damage and avoidance
Attacker rolls to hit, gets 4 hits.
Defender rolls to avoid being hit. If he gets 5 hits or more, the attack is a miss. If he gets exactly 4 hits, it's a glancing blow that makes contact without doing damage (basically a miss for most purposes). If the defender rolls 3 hits or fewer, the attack is a hit.

On a hit, the attacker adds his "net hits" to his weapon's damage value. If the defender rolled 2 hits and the attacker got 4, that means the attacker has 2 "net hits". He adds that to his Ingram Smartgun's 8P, meaning the defender has to roll soak (body+armor) against 10 damage.

To determine if the damage is stun or physical, first you look at the damage code. "P" is physical by default, and "S" is stun by default. Stun damage is stun pretty much no matter what. Physical damage can be turned into stun by enough armor. If the defender's modified armor value (defender's armor minus the attacker's armor penetration) equals or exceeds the attacker's total damage before soak. In this example the defender's modified armor value has to be 10 or more to make it stun.

When rolling soak (also called damage resistance), the defender's hits on his (armor+body) test are subtracted from the damage taken.

>>51215348

I forgot to add that is the damage is physical, you only roll your body to resist, meaning damage has bypassed your armor.

>>51215352
>Simple logic means that used is impossible.
Hence saying it's setting correct. Those still aren't actual rules.

>>51215293
>>51215348
>>51215352
Great. i knew there was some issues with that. Thanks for the help all.

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Does anybody else feel limited by the rules of optimization? Or rather, the apparent necessity for optimization? Maybe its just a vocal minority, but there seems to be a strong following that says "if you don't have <x> then your character is bad" or "your dicepool has to be at least this or your build isn't viable." Doesn't this style of character design seem overly draconian? Doesn't it limit the possibilities of "viable characters" to only a small handful of very same-y combat monsters whose only difference is how black their trenchcoat is?

>>51212940
Currently no. I haven't figured out a neat way to implement it without providing the ability for Essence Loss to be refilled yet. >>51215532
Viability is typically defined as the ability to reliably achieve the tasks the character is built to achieve. If you want to build a street-sam who only has six dice firing their main gun then that's up to you, but unless you're spending edge every two seconds to guarantee hits, you're not going to be as effective as a character who dedicated more of their resources into doing the thing they're supposed to be good at.

>>51215532
As someone that plays a monk in DnD 3.5, has 10 cha, ended up as the party face, voice of reason, and main ass kicker for a while, no.

Optimization can suck it, because there's no level of optimization that lets you deal with stupid party members.

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>>51214831
Are you asking generally, or as a Kruger rip-off?

As a standard Sam/Soldier, cyber and firearms is perfectly fine. Standard, even. Depending on how heavy you layer it and add modified armor/weapons, you can be one of the, if not just the, hardest-hitting member of your team; Plan B rendered to an art-form.

Kruger's an oddity. He's a swordsman with skills in knives and throwing stars. We don't ever really see him use guns; all of his kills are with fancy high-tech explosives, his sword, or high-tech explosives on his throwing stars.

Kruger is kind of a pseudo-rigger/sam that specializes in demolitions and bladed implements, with a few toys like his gunship, laser-tracking explosive drones, or camera drones.

>>51215381
>is the damage is physical, you only roll your body to resist

That's not the case. Physical damage is resisted as normal, using Body plus the character's modified armor value.

>>51215404
>Those still aren't actual rules.
Yes it is. That text unambiguously establishes a fact about cultured bioware augmentations that preclude them from being available as used. Bioware only works for one person, meaning you can't remove it and have it work for someone else.

I guess you could remove bioware from one person and reimplant it in the same person, but in that case I think you'd need to pay twice (once for each implantation) and there wouldn't be any benefit. Maybe if a corp stole bioware that you had before, and then you take it back and reimplant it? Regardless it's a pretty obscure corner case that I wouldn't allow at chargen.

>>51215532
It's an unfortunate fact about games like SR5 that followed in the kind of 3.5-esque design philosophy that tried to encourage system mastery by filling character creation with trap options. It ends up encouraging people to stick closely to a few proven routes of character creation while ignoring vast swathes of the character creation landscape.

The guidelines you're talking about (12-15+ dice in the main skills, 3 initiative dice if fighting is your main job, start with basic tools, a R4 sin, wear good armor, use weapons that are good) are essentially best practices. You can deviate from them to an extent and still have things be okay. It's easy to treat these best practices like absolute requirements, and that line of thinking is hard to shake.

The point is, there's a much wider range of workable characters than you'd think of just looking at RPG rules advice forums. You need to have thoughts of your own, but it's very rewarding once you learn to work with possibilities beyond the safest options. That's easier in some games than others. This particular game does not make it easy.

>>51215572
As I think about it more, I suppose my problem is perhaps with the system. Most players would probably agree that the most successful runs are those where the team completes their objective without being seen. Get in, do the thing, get out without anybody being the wiser. However, this ideal can be a very difficult one to achieve, due to both in-game logic and metagame etiquette.

For a team to break into a place, and do the thing without breaking out into a firefight, everybody has to be stealthy and a single failure can spiral a situation out of control. A stealth-specialist can try to go solo but then the rest of the players are bored and unsatisfied because they don't have the opportunity to do anything (sorta like why sniper-builds are frowned upon, because any plan that involves sniping from a mile away probably doesn't involve the rest of the team in any meaningful way).

1/2

>>51215889
And once stealth is broken, everybody is expected to draw guns and start shooting. But because the Street Samurai sets the bar for combat that the rest of the party is expected to keep up with, it doesn't allow for other runners to really contribute in other meaningful ways. Everybody has to be a be able to murder on par with everybody else whether its with a gun, sword, drones, or magic. And that is expensive in regards to character creation resources.

Furthermore, Shadowrun, as a system has the same problem with Street Samurai that games like Dungeons and Dragons have with Fighters. The guy with the least expertise regarding non-violent means of accomplishing goals gets the final say in how the team goes about the run. In D&D, the Rogue may want to sneak and the wizard might want to use clever magical tricks, but when the Fighter (or in SR's case, the Street Samurai) wants to swing his sword, fire his gun, and try to earn body count achievements, the rest of the party has little ability to stop him or salvage what is left of the run. They either have to back him up (and hope they specialized into super murder like he did), abandon him (and suffer penalties in game or player bitching out of character), or be considered a useless lump for not speccing into super murder.

2/2

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>>51215835
>That's not the case. Physical damage is resisted as normal, using Body plus the character's modified armor value.


"Should I take two minutes to check the book and see if that information is correct? Nah, I'll just talk out of my ass."

>>51211057
Also, if anyone is interested, the three remaining NPCs.

>R0N1N a human(?) hacker. His/her primary goal is to disable security. Never seen in person. Uses a holographic 'avatar' to communicate with the rest of the team. The avatar is an androgynous samurai.

>Anthony Wallace, AKA Repoman. He's a human who worked for Shiawase. Now he's a Shadowrunner with two side businesses, a Street Doc and collecting bioware for less than legal organizations to resell. Since he went to an Ivy League University for Medical training to be a surgeon, he's actually a fairly decent Street Doc. May or may not also be feeding information to Shiawase and I may or may not have a boner for double agents.

>Elivia, AKA Shortstack, a Gnome Rigger who serves as the team's getaway driver. She's also a former Trid stunt driver. Likes to drive fast and dangerously, which often has my girlfriend's character freaking out.

>>51215935

Actually, in retrospect, I think I fucked up by wording it poorly. I meant to say that when the damage bypasses armor completely, that is, when the AP reduces armor to nothing, then the player rolls only his body.

>>51216109
Oh, and then there's Bob, a newer addition to the team.

>Bob is a Drone Rigger and Human. He's also a redneck who tries to constantly improve Elivia's car by add 'moar guns, cus dis is 'merica damnit!'. REALLY loves potato chips and has an troll fetish.

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>>51216150
>I think I fucked up by wording it poorly.
>I forgot to add that is the damage is physical
I think you up the whole sentence.

>>51215935
The modified armor value is equal to (armor - AP). That number can be positive even while the damage taken is physical. I'll give an example.

Say that Albert uses a 10P, AP -2 weapon to attack Bob.
Albert gets one net hit, so Bob has to soak 11P at AP -2.
Bob is wearing an armor jacket and no other armor, so his unmodified armor is 12
Bob's modified armor (armor 12, minus AP 2) is 10, which is lower than the damage, so the damage is physical.
Bob rolls to soak the 11P of damage using his modified armor of 10 and his body of 3.
Bob gets 4 hits on the soak roll, meaning he ultimately takes 7 physical damage.

>>51216150
>I meant to say that when the damage bypasses armor completely, that is, when the AP reduces armor to nothing, then the player rolls only his body.
That's a very different statement from "every time the damage taken is physical, the defender only rolls body to soak". I'm glad that you caught the mistake in time to correct it, even if you were a little bit more abrasive than you needed to be. It's all good though, as long as the newfriends don't get too confused.

>>51215532
>your dicepool has to be at least this or your build isn't viable
How is this different from any other rpg? I've never played an rpg where your character doesn't need the odds to be decent when they try to do something difficult that they're supposed to be good at.

>>51215889
>>51215902
The issue, in my experience, is usually that players (and GMs) expect Shadowrun jobs to be like a D&D dungeon crawl. While that works in high-octane games there are players who want to focus on it being an Oceans Eleven-style heist. In those kinds of games Street Sams don't work unless they're also able to fill another party role at the same time.

>>51216235
>even if you were a little bit more abrasive than you needed to be

What can I say? Anonymity makes us all smart asses.

For old-school SR, which is best?

2e or 3e? And what are the differences?

>>51216956
Setting oneself on fire is better than either of those options, but if forced at gunpoint, 3e.

Well, my group's first session was... a thing.

Most of us are brand new to the system/world. I'm running a Dwarf Technomancer, guy's I'm playing with regularly are former Police Detective Dwarf Mage, an Orc Street Samurai with a thing for pancakes, the third is the GM. The new-to-group folks are a human rigger with an obsession with dragons, and Elf mage of some sort.

>Mr.Johnson wants us to smash and grab a diamond store during an anarchist riot.
>We case the joint, and before the assault, I hack and disable the alarms systems.
>We go in, Elf-mage has a wall of force spell that traps three guys in the back.
>Street-Samurai and Rigger kick in the front door and kill the other two guards.
>We loot the front part, they have the trapped guys bring us everything in their safe.
>As we're leaving, the rigger rolls a grenade into the room the 3 backroom guys were in.
>GM announces the cyberpsycho squad is now on the case.
>As we leave the meeting with the contact to get out cut of the loot, bug spirits attack a crowd outside our meeting place and the session ends.

>>51217883
Shoot the rigger and leave him in front of a police station somewhere.

>>51218642
That's... more of less the plan that the Dwarf-Mage has come up with.
Though, being an ex-cop he's just going to notify the police and we're going to be as far as possible from the rigger.

>>51218664
Good plan.

But you might want to tell the player what they did wrong. It would be mean otherwise.

>>51218671
We did during the session. Though they don't know that the Dwarf-mage has proposed the plan to the GM.

So, question. How viable is it for a physical adept to use a melee weapon as their primary weapon? Because I'm playing my first SR character and I want him to primarily use a katana because he's a huge weeb. Literally, he's a troll that's obsessed with anime. He wears anime t-shirts when not on a run, and wears full body armor fashioned to look like samurai armor during runs. The armor also has anime decals plaststered all over it, like those cringey cars you see sometimes online.

>>51210948
The Awakening made more shit burst into flames - Tehran, airliners, germans.

>>51218862
He better belt out the words "Moshi Moshi Motherfuckers" every time he jumps into combat

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>>51217883
I remember there being a book detailing how to refit piloted vehicles as UGVs.
Does anybody remember the name of that book?

>>51210479

PEPSI GIIIIRL

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>>51218862
Nothing really against it. The major problem with melee is that it reduces your threat range to anything you can get to in a turn, while a gunbunny's threat range is anything he can get in his crosshairs. Provided you take steps to compensate for that, you're more or less golden.

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>>51212901
>>51212958
Cyberpunks.

>>51213248
In real life, shotguns aren't videogame bluderbusses. Shotguns are just as effective at 15m as point blank unless your choke is all kinds of fucked.

Also, the shotgun rules assume you're using slugs by default. Shot is represented by flechettes, and it changes damage dropoff and your damage codes. You can't do anything with your choke without flechettes loaded.

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>>51213248
This>>51219534

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I'm looking to actually play Shadowrun 5th, my co-workers quit last week so the two game I might have got to play in are now out of reach. I'm avalible Tuesday or Wednesday at any time.

Contact me on Discord at PSI-Kid #1459.

>>51219534

This is true, but, if More pellets hit you, it should hurt more than if less pellets hit you, and being closer would equal more pellets hitting.

And I know about the Flechettes, I was considering those as well.

Are there any adept powers that prove your Killing Hands other than strength boosts and Elemental Strike?

>>51219896
Flechettes are pretty awful, because most people you want to be shooting at are wearing armor of some sort. On the bright side, the +2dv and the +5 armor mostly balance themselves out. The big downside is that using Flechette ammo means you're not loading APDS, or EX-EX.

>>51220268
There's elemental body as well. Besides that, embrace the burnout and get striking callouses and bone density augs. Bone lacing is also very good.

>>51220303
Nah, flechette's alright in a SA+ shotgun. Especially if the opposition does the mistake of sticking close together.

>>51220303
>YFW armored clothing is only 450 nuyen and looks completely inconspicuous so every last ganger and organized criminal is going to have some armor
>YFW only chance to use flechettes to full effectiveness (read: on completely unarmored targets) is to massacre a bunch of random wageslaves and who the fuck kills random wageslaves?
>YFW it's certainly not a professional like you!

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>>51220450
Armored clothing? 50 more nuyen and you can get armored vest, wearable under all clothing. You can just walk in any clothing store and get it for 500 bucks. Flechette is only useful against some critters.

>>51220450
>implying the average runner PCs is anything approaching professional

>>51220904
That kind of reinforces my point.

>>51220922
I don't know about you, chummer, but everyone I run with does their best to be a bit better than the Halloweener scum and other trigger-happy maniacs.

>Executive Suite: 12 AR, +2 Social Limit, 2,000 nuyen
>Custom Ballistics Mask: +2 AR, +2 Social Limit for Intimidation, 300 nuyen
>Ares Briefcase Shield: +4 AR, 1,800 nuyen
So you put your mask and your one handed gun of choice in the briefcase and walk into a fancy party having 12 AR and looking completely socially acceptable among the elites. Then when shit goes down, you can pop behind cover, open your briefcase, put on the mask, slide the briefcase onto your arm, pick up your gun and BAM! You've got 18 AR (as much as fullbody armor with a helmet), a gun and a whopping +4 to your limit on Intimidation, and you got it all into the fancy party without looking out of place! And at 4,100 nuyen, this gear combo doesn't even break the bank.

Really, I don't see why people buy Sleeping Tiger.

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>>51221087
Mainly because the briefcase is new and for street sam with priority A resources 16k is not much.
Now if you wanna go crazy and have the strenght Sleeping Tiger 13 + Vashon Island Coat 3 + Balistic Mask 2 + Ares Briefcase Shield 4 gets you 22 armor.
Also correct me if im wrong but dont you need to spend action activating the briefcase for it to have effect?

>>51221087
>6 points of armor add-ons
>shield occupies a hand
>need STR 5 to avoid armor encumbrance penalties
It is a solid outfit when you can tote a briefcase and a ballistic mask, and don't want to look like a tool.


Sleeping tiger/vashion island on the other hand gets you to 18 with only 5 add-on armor (only need STR 4) and leaves both hands free (for things like hanging off vehicles while gunning an SMG). You're dressing like a tool, but a very well-protected tool with extra social limit. Which sadly is good enough for a lot of situations. It's pretty expensive at 16,100¥, but the availability is manageable: no piece of the armor is even restricted, and they're all 10 or less.
>Sleeping Tiger: 13 armor, wireless +1 social limit, ruthenium polymer, 13,500¥
>Synergist Longcoat: +3 armor, holster, wireless +1 social limit, 2,300¥
>Ballistic Mask: +2 armor, +1 social limit for intimidate, 300¥

The reason to ban the sleeping tiger combo in your game is because it's quite cheesy. IMO it's much better to replace it with more reasonable combos like ones involving executive suite.

Alright /srg/, I'm currently running a arc where the PCs find themselves against a pissed-off go-gang in Melbourne, Australia. We're reaching the climax, and I'm hoping to throw some crazy shit at them. Thoughts?

>>51221087
The maximum armor you can receive from accessories is (STR + 1) (SR5, 169), although the book says it in a confusing way. You have +6 from accessories, so they'd need 5 STR in order to not receive encumbrance penalties.

The Briefcase Shield also requires one of your hands, which means you can't use a gun larger than an SMG without being a troll or taking a -2 penalty (not a huge penalty, but its not helping), and you have one of your hands used up.

The people with the STR required, the average Trolls and Orks, and melee fighters, can get better armor by buying the more expensive Sleeping Tiger, Longcoat, Ballistic Mask, etc.

The archetypes in need of cheap, decent, and good looking armor are Faces, Hackers, Riggers, and Magicians, the archetypes least likely to have 5 STR. Of course, if your face is a Troll, this doesn't matter.

>>51221576
I tell my table that since Sleeping Tiger is street tough chic, typically only Orks and Trolls can get away with wearing it in actual corporate/higher-society because they can play on stereotypes. Its a way of limiting

>>51221616
Crazy australian monsters being disturbed by the violence and attacking ganger and runner alike?

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>>51221616
Watch literally any Mad Max movie for inspiration. Actually, I take that back: if you want 80-90% of the "crazy" to come from the fact that the gangers all have antisocial personality disorder, watch the original Mad Max for inspiration. If you want everything to be over the top batshit insane, watch Fury Road for inspiration, and for something in between watch Road Warrior or Beyond Thunderdome.

Also, dropbears.

>>51221087
>Really, I don't see why people buy Sleeping Tiger.
It's availability, like, 10, isnt' Restricted or Forbidden, and is just about the only way to get said RPC without Restricted Gear quality

>>51221550
>for street sam with priority A resources 16k is not much.
Yeah, but that's looking at it like someone who was planning to go into high society areas from day one, whereas the average streetsam is going to spend all his chargen money on ware and toys that make him an effective all-round kill machine (note: vision and audio enhancements are an important part of being an effective all-round killing machine; you can't kill what you can't locate and target). Then once he actually starts playing he buys specialist equipment like armored business suits or extreme environment armor only when the run demands it, and even then he's going to be looking for the cheap, cost effective option unless he can put it on Mr.Johnson's tab, because the more money he spends on specialist gear the less money he has to spend on new ware and toys.

>>51219166
Nah, but he does love to shout bad Japanese names for his big attacks. We're in LA, so some of the runs we do are gonna end up being recorded on trid, so I'm waiting to see what the reaction will be from viewers. Seems like an easy way to distinguish yourself from other runners at least!

His alias is "Ronin", by the way. Just for extra weebness.

>>51219402
Alright, that's good to hear! Any ways that I could bump up my move speed then, is there some type of equipment for stuff like that?

>>51222341
Personally I count the 18 armor high-fashion party suit under the "new toys" column. My sammy's found himself in enough parties to justify the expense.

Although it does say something about a person when his favorite suit cost more than his car.

>>51222726
I'm the exact opposite: I've already dumped 37,500 nuyen of upgrades into a 32,000 nuyen car, and intend to put another 60,000 nuyen or so into before I'm satisfied. And then there's plenty of other toys and ware I want to buy in addition to that, so if I have to get into a party, I'm going to buy an Executive Suite, tuck my custom ballistics mask into my jacket and try to figure out how I'm going to convince the security not to look into my duffel bag full of guns.

>>51222861

That's easy. Just give them a good credstick and say that it's full of 'items for personal entertainment'

>>51222922
I don't think that'll work. Guards might be willing to be bribed to let a guy past with his novacoke, but who the fuck carries novacoke in a duffel bag?

>>51222962
>but who the fuck carries novacoke in a duffel bag?
someone with a LOT of novacoke?

>>51222976
>an entire duffel bag of novacoke
You know, if I'm infiltrating that sort of party, I might save myself the bribe money by posing as the novacoke delivery guy. Hell, maybe I'll trick them into paying me.

>>51222962
Get a bigger bag and say it's a dead escort, they'll understand.

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>>51222962
>>51222976
>>51223010

I saved this a long time ago, and I finally have a reason to post it.

>>51223010
>novacoke delivery guy
Somehow, I don't think that'll work out how you imagine it

>>51223038
No no, that's my story when I'm carrying it out.

>>51223045
I'm not confident any of this will work. Perhaps the best solution is to have an infiltration specialist hide guns in an air vent in the bathroom ahead of time.

>>51223045
Hes right, you need to bring a Fear and Loathing style briefcase with a whole bunch of everything. Some folks just don't appreciate a good hit of Novacoke.

>>51223043
But did he have a good suit to go with it?

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>>51222341
>>51221815
>>51221653
>>51221576
>>51221087

Are there any pics/descriptions of the Sleeping Tiger line that talk about what it actually looks like and why it's considered less fashionable?

>>51223150
Only in older editions.

>>51223150
please don't
we already had this discussion
it turned a thread which I wanted to be about humanity into /srg/ - Trash and Whores

>>51223150
Not in 5e, only in older editions.

I've, personally, been letting people make it whatever they want as long as it's not a generic suit

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>>51223177

>>51223150
Long story short: it looks like literal trash and is offensive to orks and trolls because they are stereotypically poor to the point of having to wear trash, or at least that's how it was in previous editions. Assuming that this terrible fashion mistake has been fixed, I'd imagine the modern Sleeping Tiger is looks like Rob Halford's usual on-stage outfit except also a tuxedo somehow.

>>51223177

Yes, and numerous times at that!

I never imagined that defending certain opinions concerning fictional dressing styles can be so much fun.

>>51223260
I mean, black, white and green PVC do kind of look like trashbags when you make clothes out of them, and even if you pick different colors the material really has too much of a raincoat texture to it for it to be proper suit material.

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>>51210854
Could be fun

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Do you guys think a broken-down assault rifle (via powered easy breakdown mod from hard targets) could fit into a large cyberlimb smuggling compartment? For reference, it says they can hold up to heavy pistols and small SMGs. I'm a filthy commie with no firearms experience, so I really don't know what this means in terms of space.

If not, how much of an AK do you think I could cram in there? The idea would be to have only a few parts scattered outside the smuggling compartment (one in a pocket, one in a shoe, some in a bag, etc) so they won't look suspicious or make a cyberware scanner say "yup this is a rifle".

and please let's not rehash the sleeping tiger debate

>>51223377
Maybe with the Short Barrel/Stockless modification combo. The AKM barrel is 16 inches or so, and thats a fucking long thing to be hiding inside a smuggling compartment. Barrel lengths obviously aren't everything when it comes to size, but SMGs like the UZI have a barrel length of 10 inches, and even thats on the longer side.

>2016+1
>his character has over 1 essence
What's your excuse?

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>>51223519
>Short Barrel/Stockless modification combo
>-1 DV
>-1 ACC
>-1 RC
>-2 concealment
That leaves us with an AK that's 4 ACC, 9P, AP-2, RC -1.

That sounds pretty fair to me actually, for cutting an AR down to something resembling an SMG. Throw on a personalized grip to get the accuracy back up and we're in business.

>>51224512
Didn't need a lot of ware to do my job, and the money was better spent on vehicles and drones.

>>51224512
I'm a mage.

What's the lowest amount of essence you've had a character have?

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>>51224520
>Lose damage when the gun gets shorter

Are there still those knowledge boosting items you could buy? I think in 4th there was some magic almanac you could put in your commlink like that

>>51225710
The one I'm playing right now has 0.02 Essence.

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>>51224512
The other players are new and I'm waiting for them to get handle of the system. Still have 14 dices in automatics,between 28 and 35 armor and can punch through a wall thanks to my cyberarms. Soon will start filling that 1.51 essence left. Nephritic Screen and Jazz to bring my initiative from 13+2d6 to 14+4d6 is on the horizon.

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>>51225737
>I think in 4th there was some magic almanac you could put in your commlink like that
Yes, the PocketMage Library
Availability 3
Price (Rating x 600)

Don't know if 5e has it

>>51225721
>what is muzzle velocity

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How do I convince the other runners in my team of the value of fancy garb when it comes to mercenary work?

>>51225680
You better not be one of them shaman, chummer.

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>>51225987
on that note what is good replacement for alphaware dermalplate 2 assuming I have already put 1 more armor in each arm and rely on glasses and helmet/mask for sensor function instead of cybereyes?
Also can I place vision enhancement and thermographic vision in helmet/ballistic mask?

>>51226161
You get your fixer to find you work in high society circles, places where dress code is enforced but the pay is good enough that the team makes the effort to adapt to the circumstances regardless, after a few runs like that, it'll come naturally.

>>51226272
>vision enhancement and thermographic vision in helmet/ballistic mask?
I'd personally say yes, as long as you got enough capacity in it

>>51226272
>>51226304
You're explicitly allowed to do so, assuming you're using Run and Gun.

>>51226262
No way omae.

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>>51226304
>>51226320
cheers chummers

>look at costs of swapping out my cyberware for related bioware that will provide superior bonuses
>455,000 nuyen plus 2,000 to upgrade my cyberarm to appropriate strength and agility
>selling my used cyberware will only put a small dent in that
>I'm not 100% sure if that cost includes the cybersurgery
So.....what are some good ways for a streetsam to make bonus money on any given run? Steal the car of a wetwork target?

>>51226830
Do you have a decker?
Ask him if you can have the cash from selling the spider's deck

>>51226885
That and any extra paydata we steal along the way. You know, we might actually be running into a spider soon...

>>51226830
Inquire the Fixer in-game, and your GM irl for setting up a big home run. Something big and dangerous which will result in a metric fuck ton of Nuyen for your runners.

>>51226830
>Steal the car of a wetwork target?
Not gunna make your serious money, unless you own a mechanic shop and know an overseas parts buyer, you should expect around 500 nY for a decent car.

>>51227217
>decent car
Wageslaves don't get targeted for wetwork chummer. If I'm getting paid to take them out, they're probably rich and powerful enough to have something very nice in the garage.

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>>51226830
You're better off seeing if you can get some kind of art, artifacts, or paydata. Something like a car isn't likely to net you a lot, especially considering the cost going into replacing all of the electronics involved.

Honestly, even with the other expensive things, you may well wind up losing money unless you know someone who can do some proper fencing for you without charging you for extra fees.

At the same time, you can always ask your GM if he's willing to give you a side-job or mini-arc of your own during your team's down-time; something small that can help you earn your upgrades without needing to steal on the side. I don't know about your GM, but my own would be down with--maybe even pumped to--effectively trade a small story's worth of risk and potential extra reward (and the potential to link more stuff to our main plot and make our characters feel more alive) for an upgrade or two.

>>51227319
>that can help you earn your upgrades without needing to steal on the side
addendum to this post: Why not ask your GM for jobs that pay in bioware? runs don't always have to pay in money. They can pay in gear, favors or ware

Have you ever used ritual magic? What for?

>>51227377
It's 455,000 nuyen worth of bioware, anon. Standard Suprathyroid Glan, Standard Synaptic Boosters 3, and Betaware Bone Density Augmentation 4 (which conveniently takes up exactly as much Essence as the Standard Wired Reflexes 1, Alphaware Reaction Enhancer 1 and Alphaware Aluminum Bone Lacing I'd remove in the same surgery). I don't know how much it costs the corp to manufacture and install that sort of bioware, but it would be a hell of a run that offered that as a reward.

>>51227480
You do know that you can just get those in multiple runs?

>>51227480
Chummer, you don't take a run from Mitsuhama where the reward is exactly 455k nuyen worth of Bioware. You have a run with Ares, and you negotiate as the payment access to an Ares Betaware-level clinic and 100k spending spree on Ares bioware, plus the new experimental organ they are testing. That combined with a prodigious hunt for paydata during runs, your standard Nuyen rewards, etc.

Suprathyroid Gland a shit

>>51227480
You'd be surprised. Even IRL, markups can easily go 50% just from a storefront to a buyer, and more the closer to the source you go.

The dangers would be twofold - One, trusting a Corp long enough to get your pay, and two, having to figure out what surprises they put in your bioware.

>>51227581
I know, but when I break it down none of the 3 bits of bioware are particularly cheap either. Honestly I'm considering bank and/or casino robbery.

>>51227617
>>51227652
Now this is a little more my speed. Markup and experimental organs to get more out of a run sounds something I'll be talking to my GM about. I already had plans to use markup to get a sweet pimped out SWAT suit from the next run I do for Ares.

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>>51223242
>Rob Halford
Yeah, but with more variety in materials and less aggressive "it's trashbags".

>>51223330
>I mean, black, white and green PVC do kind of look like trashbags when you make clothes out of them
Just the sleeves, mate, and you're covering that with more stuff, too.

>>51227397
Mostly for watchers and wards. But even wards tend to only happen if I need to hide longer than a temporary lodge will stand.

Oh, also to set up a healing area. Rarely to snipe people with a surprise combat spell.

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Can anyone think of an argument against Qi Focus Rating = 0.25PP? Trying to puzzle out a better way to manage qi foci and improved reflexes has thrown me for a loop.

>>51228275
You're pretty much right, though they must be attuned to a specific adept power. My reading of the description is as follows:

You want to make a focus for Improved Reflexes 1. If you don't have the power, it is a force 6 focus (4x1.5 power points). If you already have improved reflexes and want to increase it's rating, it's a force 4 focus (since the difference between rating 1 and 2 IR is one power point.) Improved Reflexes is kind of an odd power since the first rating costs more than all subsequent ratings.

A 0.25 PP power, like Nimble Fingers, would be a force 1 focus, while a 0.5 PP power, like Combat Sense, would be a force 2 focus.

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>>51228550
Excellent, that's what I figured. That'll neatly unfuck improved reflexes then. Hell, if I implement it properly I can even allow changing how much PP a focus grants.

In unrelated news, ooooo.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/echox/echo-arcana-cyberpunk-tarot-book-by-echo-chernik

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Is it possible to make a character like the Major in SR? Someone who outwardly looks perfectly human but is internally stuffed with cyberware and bioware? Or is the really high end combat stuff always going to be of the more obtrusive kind?

>>51229401
Internal Cyberware and Bioware are nearly invisible to the basic human eye.

>>51229428
I know, but can you get it strong enough to compete with people who have stuff like full cyberarms and legs?

>>51229447
Eh, depends
Stuff like Muscle Augmentation is adding better and more muscle so you will definitely look stronger, but I don't know if it looks naturally stronger or if you can tell that it's augmented

>>51229447
Absolutely, if you want to go that route, its both easy and powerful.

>>51229494
The Bioware Muscle wares are indistinguishable without assensing or advanced medical tests. The Muscle Replacement cyberware is obvious at all or higher ratings, because its bulkier and doesn't conform to natural muscle as well as the Bioware stuff does.

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>>51229401
Depends on how close you want the character to mirror her capabilities, really. Synthetic limbs don't have a substantial amount of capacity free to fit extra agility and strength enhancements, but even a maxed out human frame wouldn't be able to pick up a tank or whatever, as Shadowrun has a far lower scale of strength.

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>>51229535
>>51229547
Awesome, I was worried there would be a heavy trade-off of straight chrome to bioware/internal cyberware.

Cyberzombie and Cyborg rules for 5e when?
Surely they're just tossing them into some stupid supplement like they did for Technomancers, right?

>>51229663
There's a supplement for technomancers? That's news to me.

>>51229712
Yes.
It will surely happen eventually, we just need to believe...!

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>>51229617
>>51229401

If your playing in 4th Ed, you have the option of playing a Cyborg - which is basically 100% metal except for a meat brain

>>51229712
Not released yet. Sometime in Q2 2017 last I heard, but that'll probably get blown out again.

>>51229722
They're making it really hard to play a riggermancer.

So, what's the highest sensor rating I have for a sensor array in a helmet?

>>51229770
I'd say 2 or 3, leaning toward 2 because it lists 'audio or visual device'.

>>51229770
I'd argue 2 as well, because 2 lists "RFID, audio or visual device, headware" as examples.

>>51227274
If you want to make some extra cash when you are running in the home of a rich person, take silverware, liqueur, jewelry, personal electronics (and the data there stored), transportable artworks like unframed paintings or smaller objet d'art, firearms, rare books, and of course, drugs. All of those sell better than cars, because they are smaller, less public, have less/no paperwork or registration, are consumable and/or can have most of their value recovered after being melted down to anonymize them.

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I like this setting, but hate almost every other aspect of this game.
This is a very unpleasant experience.

>>51230199
>hate almost every other aspect of this game.
any reason for that?

>>51230226
Not him, but I hate the cobbled together rules and the overall incredibly crunchy nature of the game. I'm an RPG baby but really love this setting and it's pissing me off how obtuse and overcomplicated a lot of it seems.

>>51230226
A lot of it is bad.

Isn't there like an Earth-Mother mentor spirit in one of those fucking annoying SR5 "not a supplement but here's some rules so you'll buy" fiction books?

>>51229447
Without Redliner cyber limbs actually have a lower potential as the highest augmentation bonus they can get is +3, where as muscle replacement and toner/augmentation go to the maximum +4. Of course cyberlimbs tend to exit creation higher as they can get +3 without restricted gear and customise AGI and Str to racial max. Where the other systems can only give you +2 without restricted gear and you can only have one of your natural stats at racial max at creation.

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>>51210181
Yo chummers. Whats a good place to get some info on San Francisco?

>>51230512
Great Mother is in Street Grimoire as well as Sail Away, Sweet Sister.

>>51230805
It's not in Street Grimoire.
Not the one I have anyway.

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>>51230838
Hrm, you're right. Odd, I could have sworn it was.

http://cdn.shadowruntabletop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/E-CAT26S041_Sail-Away-Sweet-Sister-Stats.pdf?d131f9

>>51230891
Chummer claims it's in SG 86.

>>51231045
>>51230891
Also the A.I. page refrence on chummer is wrong

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Question

I remember there being a rule in Shadowrun that if your heavily borged and your Essence is trash, then Magical Healing is less effective on you.

Am I remembering right? Is this a rule in 4th Edition?

>>51230250
I hate it when people hate the rules, then decide Shadowrun should be done with minimum crunch.

>>51231107
SR:R is good and that uses a lighter ruleset.

>>51231103
All healing is less effective on people. IIRC its a -1 modifier for each point of ESS loss.

>>51231131
1. Not by much, considering it's a videogame
2. That's a videogame, you berk

>>51231131
It has the advantage of most of the crunch being done by a computer, and its also not a game with a lot of depth mechanically.

>>51230250
>I hate the cobbled together rules and the overall incredibly crunchy nature of the game. I'm an RPG baby but really love this setting and it's pissing me off how obtuse and overcomplicated a lot of it seems.
Same here. It manages to be devlishly overcomplicated at some times, but also maddeningly vague at crucial moments.

The incongruity, self-contradictions, and the massive amount of cross-referencing betrays a clear lack of focus and coordination. Also, it gives us rules for corner-case nonsense like swimming and endurance running, but only scant guidance for things like weapons' device ratings, contacts' negotiation pools, what each diepool means by the lore (as opposed to just skill rating), encumbrance and appearance for each item, what each science-fiction item looks like, how people go about stealing wireless-enabled gear without getting caught, and so on.

>>51231087
>>51231045
Whups. Fixed in latest commit.
>>51231103
It's in the description for Health spells. Dice pool modifier equal to the target's Essence minus their Maximum Essence. Interestingly, this makes it REALLY hard to heal some of the infected variants, as their Essence maximum is like 18.

>>51231356
>as their Essence maximum is like 18.
Why?

>>51231335
I too would love it if I could get artwork for every weapon, set of armor, vehicle, piece of gear, etc.

>>51231433
Because their essence drain allows them to temporarily have vast essence stats by eating others'.

>>51211990
I think you're falling for a bit of a trap with a cyberdeck.
Sony CIY-720 is way too expensive for what it does, it's only real advantage over Renraku deck is +1 program but the cost prevents you from getting some nice cyber to back you up in the meatspace or even the essential cerebral booster 2 bioware.
Cracking and electronics are great if you don't take them as groups, because then you won't be able to get specialisations for skills. You want to max Computer (Matrix Perception) - your most used roll , Software is only used for defusing Data Bombs, Hardware is not bad but it's fine to drop a couple of points there and move on.
Codeslinger (Hack on the Fly) is expensive but you benefit from it greatly, and it's not like there are a lot of stuff to directly boost your hacking dicepools, totally worth it.
Never used Agents though.

>>51231468
Or at the very least a table of "X shadowrun object resembles Y real life object", so I can at least google it and get grounded on the difference between an ares alpha and a yamaha raiden.

I figure that if the D&D monster manuals can put in an image for every monster, then shadowrun can do something similar with objects whose appearance is not similar to a real life counterpart.

>>51231668
Ares Alpha is a bullpup, Raiden is standard configuration. They both have art. If I were gonna complain about something, complain about something that actually fits your complaint.

That said, I agree.

>>51231510
But would that actually affect the magical healing?

>>51231759
Fucked if I know, it's not like CGL put any thought into those rules.

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>>51231708
Picture of Ares Alpha as a bull-pup? The shitty 5e Gear Cards have the Ares Alpha w/ standard configuration. Pic related is the general look I envision the Ares Alpha as, I know its a very obscure firearm.

>>51231759
There's a question of whether it's an intended feature, but it certainly works that way in RAW, and there's a certain level of thematic appropriateness to not being able to heal a nosferatu with magic.

moral of the story, more blood equals more human.

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>>51231856
>SCAR
>Very obscure

There's this. It's also a bullpup in SR:R. The Raiden has actual art though.

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>>51231993
You're a master of sarcasm, omae.
Well, at least that art is better than what the current art is.
Where does the grenade launcher hide? We will never know

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>>51232015
Where the hell is that art from?

Also, the Raiden, just for comparison.

>>51232022
>The shitty 5e Gear Cards have the Ares Alpha w/ standard configuration

>>51232031
Good lord that's awful.

Overall though, the art provided for the guns in this game is pretty awful. I'm glad there's not very much of it now that I think about it.

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>>51232100
Never forget the very original design for the Stun Baton. Or its phallic imagery.

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>>51232100
>the art provided for the guns in this game is pretty awful
This is true. Most of them end up looking overdesigned.

Pic related, the 2003 springfield, is the prettiest gun I've seen in SR5.

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>>51232265
Wow, that's actually a gun I might be interested in in real life.

Speaking of, post guns that work as substitutes/stand ins for SR guns. Both real and conceptual.

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>>51232347

>>51211464

You should set her up to wreck everything, get Arathyen burned from Ares.

If you help her line it up just right, you can have a great Act 3, ending with a cornered Arathyen she can forgive, kill or sell down river.

I'd recommend giving her a trustworthy character to back up, so if Aratheyen tries anything, he can ensure that the Elf has matching kneecap scars.

Remember, betrayal is only any good if people more or less keep a deal most of the time.

Johnsons rarely break deals, Fixers do sometimes and your regular chummers always will the moment the money gets good.

Chummers, what are your thoughts on noizquitoes?

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>>51232413

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I HEV QUESTION ABOUT AR.

How much of my AR can other people see? If I'm using AR enhanced fashion that makes me look FLASH AS HELL, can everyone see that, or only people on my subscription list? When I open up Fat_Ass_Legal_Gnome.trd in my AR, can people on the train see what I'm watching (if I don't set it to appear in a private window)? Would MOST people use private windows most of the time, or would they just let people infer they're doing matrix work rather than staring at nothing. Can other people see the skeletons that I'm slashing apart in my fantasy-themed Miracle-Shooter knockoff, or am I just flailing like a goober?

>>51213260

I'm pretty sure that's simply disguise focused on sensors rather than people.

I'd houserule that people trying to track you through the matrix would have more difficulty, even though good old Eyeball MKI would do pretty damn good tracking they guy who spiked his bangs down over his face.

>>51232598
If you're using AR enhanced fashion, you've probably set it to be visible to anyone, so it has to be blocked by the person or they need to be noised out of the matrix for them not to see it. (Possibly. They might have AR glasses from the same people that made your clothes, and those glasses might have the proper patterns onboard.)

If somebody does a Matrix Perception test, they can see that you've started watching a video, but unless you have AR glasses big enough for them to see what you're seeing despite the distance, it'd take hacking to know more (or really bad security protocols on your end).

And if you're playing an AR game, it's probably advertising, and while the people can't see it, they're probably aware what you're doing.

Those are my calls on most of the questions, at least.

>>51232598
I'm pretty sure it's handwaved, but you can set things as private when you open an AR window (porn, your runner team's tacnet, etc.)

Things like your game and your AR fashion are probably public.

>>51232598
It would vary, I'd think the trid would have to be private by default, if anyone watching something was openly visible/audible to all in AR then it would just become an incoherent mess of white noise. AR fashion would have to be publicly view able, otherwise what's the point? and the game would depend whether it was multiplayer or not (though I don't believe AR games in the vein of miracle shooter would work at all in AR, that's just plain dumb).

>>51232673
AROs definitely have a visibility setting called out as part of them in the book. Somewhat the same for things like files and folders, although that's less explicit.

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>>51232563

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>>51232797

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So, if I'm opening up a mapsoft to look at classy chinese restaurants in the vicinity, normally people just see me waving my hand in the air to interact with the menus and reviews, BUT I can choose to make the window 'public', so that my friends can look over my shoulder and help pick where we want to go eat?

>>51223377

I'd allow it with a short barrel firearm, a rifle designed to be broken down can lose half to two-thirds of its size.

I'd also say it's pretty balanced if you have to put your gun back together before getting into the shit.

>>51232824
I always thought that people might be able to see the window, but not what's on it unless you'd given their PAN, and thus their AR glasses or what have you access and permissions.

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>>51229729
>>51229401
>mfw I love The Major's character design so much that it hurts but I can never use any portraits resembling anything close to her because she is too iconic and recognizable, even to normies.

>>51232824
You can make it public so anyone can see the map ARO, you can limit it to a group you defined so only that group can see the ARO map, or just send it to a bunch of individual devices and/or personae and only they can see it.

Well, you can see it too, in most cases.

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>>51232896
I kinda feel you. I play with nerds, but I recently made a character that's pretty close and am worried they'll think I'm riffing too much.

I hate what they did the Kusanagi's design in the later movies. The original is so much better than generic anime face.

>>51232558
What are those?

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Are there sphinx in shadowrun or where there in the 4th age?

>>51232956
IIRC they where a 'broken' bit of gear in one of the books, tiny drones that made loud, annoying noises and bright flashes of light, like flying Flash Paks. The penalty they provided stacked, too, so you could put about three orbiting a single person and they would be utterly useless, failing at every single roll they made because of the crushing DP penalties.

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>>51232956
Pretty much the most bullshit drone in the setting. Anybody that uses these, player or GM, deserves a swift kick in the dick.

>>51233004
>>51233012
How do you combat them? Flare compensation doesn't seem to help a whole lot.

>>51233077
Use the missions errata. Don't let it stack. Edge burning or spending.

Any or all of those.

>>51233077
Kill the rigger from out of earshot or get lucky with explosives.

>>51233077
Area jammer?

>>51233077
Kill your GM/player.

>>51233077
Ignore the monkeys with typewriters, and use environmental modifier rules to generate noizquito strobe lighting. So fucking simple and elegant, and they haven't been able to get this shit right with any of the 5e flash/strobe shit.

>>51233012

That's now how that fucking works.

Three strobes don't work three times as well as one. Three speakers don't jam three times as well as one.

If you have compensation, you shouldn't take significant penalties: You can dim far enough to ignore the flashing and you can mute hard enough to block the sound.

Under RAW, that seriously suggests a 12k investment should be able to apply a -24 to a target.

Not retarded rules: -4 for lights and sounds, -2 for flare or sound dampening, -1 for both. They can be deployed in "Blinder" formations of three to stack penalties on a target by tracking his movements: -12, 6, 3 on a single target, -3, 1, 0 on anyone looking at the drones. Larger formations are used for redundancy, but do not improve effectiveness.

Now it's crowd control specialized for singling out and incapacitating armed rioters, but only marginally effective against green chummers, and just an annoyance to prepared runners.

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>>51232347
>post guns that work as substitutes/stand ins for SR guns

I have an entire Weapons Art folder specifically for this.

But really, here are some great sources...
>Killzone
>Deus Ex HR & MD
>Ghost in the Shell
>Star Citizen
>Halo

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>>51232896

I dont give a shit - I used her likeness for an NPC, and no one cared. Do what you love.

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>>51232598
>can other people see my stuff?
If you set it as publicly viewable, or if a decker snoops on your shit, yes. I imagine that people have made attempts at spam-blocker apps for their commlinks to avoid unwanted AR objects like your AI enemies in Miracle Gear Rising.

The way it's consistently portrayed in art, it looks like AR screens should be noticeable from the outside, but difficult to see exactly what's going on unless you're up close. I consider this the more interesting and aesthetically-pleasing option.

>do most people set their stuff as publicly viewable?
Apart from things like AR fashion or annoying political statements (like a crossout symbol over their mouths to protest some free-speech restriction), probably not. They probably look like bored crazy people on the bus, waggling their fingers to manipulate AR stuff that's invisible to you.

>>51233672
>Not retarded rules
Nah. Not retarded rules would be setting a blinding glare modifier, and restricting the number of affected targets to the number of drones.

>>51233779

>Shadowrun
>Not making The Major one of the off the shelf beauty packages listed in that one minor flaw.

>>51233403
>use environmental modifier rules
>they haven't been able to get this shit right

They fucked up in core by not doing this with flash-paks, because that one item set the precedent for how these things would work later.

>intuition helps defenses, initiative, and perception
>there are magical traditions that use willpower+intuition
Is this too good to be true? I keep looking for a mechanical disadvantage to using an intuition tradition over the others and I can't.

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Are there are books where I can read detailed Information and Fluff about "The Path of the Wheel" and Knight Errant ?

>>51233960
Intuition seems to be (one of) the god stats in SR. Kinda like Dexterity in DnD.

>>51233960
Arcana is governed by logic. The maximum spirits you can bind is decided by charisma. Judge intentions, composure, and basically all social tests involve charisma, so it's harder to do face stuff with an intuition one. Your academic knowledges will be lower than a logic tradition. If your GM ever needs you to roll memory to remember a person's aura, that's governed by logic and willpower.

On the other hand, assensing is also governed by intuition.

Way I see it, if you want to prioritize being a little bit faster, dodgier, and more perceptive (over being well-spoken or smarter) then intuition is right for you.

>>51234096
>intuition is a god stat
I'm hesitant to call it that. Everyone wants it to be high, but there's a lot more to shadowrunning than noticing things and dodging bullets.

>>51234154
>I'm hesitant to call it that. Everyone wants it to be high, but there's a lot more to shadowrunning than noticing things and dodging bullets.
There's street smarts and hobbies, too.

>>51234154
>Everyone wants it to be high,
That's why it's a god stat. You can squeak by with a 2 in logic, or strength, but having low intuition gimps you in a few very important ways. Similarly, in DnD, you can take 8 strength or intelligence and still make a very powerful character, but an 8 in dexterity basically fucks you.

I will concede that it's much more of a problem in DnD than Shadowrun, though.

>>51234306
>You can squeak by with a 2 in logic
Until it comes to raising skills in-game. Then you're fucked.

>>51234523
Logic has no bearing on that.

>>51234547
Is there anything else you would like to be wrong about?

>If the character chooses to focus on improving only skills during a downtime, the character may choose to learn or improve a number of skills up to their Logic rating divided by 2 (round up)

If they don't choose this, they can improve 1 skill and 1 attribute during a downtime period, or 1 physical and 1 mental attribute.

>>51234668
Oh, I thought you meant the karma cost. I'll concede.

>>51234306
DEX would be agility. Agility is the god stat with all combat, sneaking and some athletics being tied to it.
Intuition would be Wisdom. Basicly a mandatory stat if you wanna do shit.

>>51234787
Dex also affects initiative, which is THE god stat in any RPG I've ever played. Going first means the enemies often don't get to go at all.

We're wasting posts bitching though. Lets talk about something else. Like drones.

>>51224520
You could simply go for the XM30 in the carabine configuration, so your ACC doesn't end up like shit.

>>51226272
Bonelacing Alphaware.
Same essence cost, double the amount of soak Dice.

>>51226830
Grab the MissionsFAQ from the official forums and show your GM the part about "upgrading Cyberware".
The formula given there is (newprice-oldprice)*1.2. It has been made an official rule in the german printing of Chrome Flesh

>>51233960
How does intuition help defenses?
Outside of surprise tests, I don't recall any situation in which it helps with dodge or soak pools

>>51235047
Base defense is REA+INT, omae.

>>51235047
Dodging is literally REA + INT.

>>51234668
Isn't that Missions stuff?

>>51235099
Nope, core book.

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>>51234818
Bumblebee too strong or the perfect supressive fire drone ?

>>51235003
Already have it. Looking to switch alpha aluminium to beta titanium, get armor 2 to 3 in each arm and drop dermal plating for something else.

>>51235569
Meh... Too expensive.

>>51235595
Its cheaper than the lynx, smaller, flying and comes with machine gun already installed though