/STG/ - Star Trek General

hello

>>51200620
Just looking at the links we have and I was wondering if you guys have any other links we could add, for Attack Wing, SFB or ST:Adventures?

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>>51200657
People are still triggered.

Hey OP, could we add this one to our OP post as "Homebrew planet/Civilization maker"?

http://pastebin.com/hhpkEvJU

>>51200666
We'll I know somebody has/had the Modiphius sample pdfs. I'm just not sure if they're taking down pastebins and the like. I know Battles pdfs get taken down all the time.

>>51200728
Sure, we'll mark it down for addition next time.

I think Star Trek might be fucked lads. Courtesy of Voyager and Enterprise's use of forward time travel (direct involvement with the future) the entire setting has been written in to a corner. We now know the UFP wins, no matter what. So there's no risk left. There's no reason to explore the future because apparently by 2800's everybody has doctor who bullshit time travel tech and the notion of linear space exploration is just redundant.

>>51201696
Except that the time travelers make it clear enough that theirs is only one of many timelines, and that they're just trying to ensure their timeline is the dominant one.

>>51201696
I'm sure people would be amenable to a soft reset. Maybe Q gets tired of all this time-travel shenaniganry and alters reality to make time travel extremely difficult, thus removing the TCW and Starfleet Time Police from "our" timeline and making them incidental.

>>51201696
>What even is the many worlds interpretation
Besides, all VOY proved was that timeship captains are just as incompetent at their job as most starship ones are

>>51201913
I've never heard of the many world interpretation. Elaborate.

>>51201861
I love the idea of a new series starting some sort of intense save the universe story about time travel but then after a few minutes Q comes along and tells them all to fuck off and sends the story back to TNG/DS9 times with no more time travel

>>51200728
>not marking temperate worlds as Class M
Completely disgusting

>>51201973
It could make for a fun 15 minute prequel/teaser to a series. The entire cast, in those ridiculous Agent Daniels body suits make a jj-esque entrance into the villains lair. They dispatch him with ease, but in doing so destabilise the Temporal mcguffin. They work desperately to repair it, spout ridiculous techno-jargon as they go. "The Prismatic Induction stabiliser has ruptured, the Temporal recursion field is going to implode" and so on. One of our characters starts into an equally ridiculous spiel about how they can fix it before being interrupted by a loud "ENOUGH" and a blinding flash.

Suddenly the Maguffin is gone, replace by De Lancie's Q in appropriate attire. "This is just dire. Do any of you even care about what you're doing? You can just go back in time and try again, there's no risk. No fun. Picard didn't have a reset button. And don't even get me started on Janeway." He rambles on, while the crew stand transfixed.

"Tell you what, let's try this again, but without the time travel. Sound good? Great." He clicks his fingers and the scene changes to a Earth Starbase in the 2380's. A new ship is being launched, crewed by the same cast we just saw. Cut to series logo and boom. Fixed.

>>51201997
What does the "M" in class m stand for?

>>51202076
Mutara. It's the Vulcan classification system.

>>51202092
Oh, ok.
I mean, for me it sounded somewhat logical because i thought that the "M" stood for "Maa" (Earth in Finnish), but then i thought why it was classified still as M class in English sources.

>>51202075
That actually sounds perfect. He could even get rid of the Borg to get rid of the super-tech bullshit that started up towards the end and it can then work as a sequel to the Dominion war and Nemesis

>>51202310
But if you don't have the Borg, you have a Federation that isn't ready for the Dominion, and dies like cattle.

>>51201945
Weird quantum shit (TM) has two main ways to make sense of it:
>Copenhagen interpretation says that everything exists in every state it possibly can, and only collapses into one when observed
>Many Worlds interpretation says that the universe is endlessly branching off into different realities, each of which with a different permutation of what already exists.

Example: schroedinger's cat - under Copenhagen, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead until you check, while many worlds says that it spawns realities where the cat is alive, the cat is dead, the cat broke out of the box, the experiment was interrupted because you got bored and decided to browse a danish quantum mechanics imageboard instead, etc.

Obviously, many worlds is favoured by sci-fi writers, since it basically gave birth to the parallel universe meme.

>>51202092
>>51202110
I thought it was Minshara - isn't Mutara where WoK had the big showdown?

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>>51202347
Not that anon but maybe Q could just create like buffer zone around the UFP in relation to the Borg. Since they seem to have such a hard-on in killing the threat of humans. And Q would lose his favorite pets if that happened. So Q does some stuff the characters never know about but we know. Q could also foster the Borg civil war and help the sides stay in balance as long as possible to give everyone else a chance to prepare and survive the outcome. Well, wiping out the Borg would be counter productive for the setting. You need a big bad in the background to keep poking the UFP and the rest of the space empires to more forward or there societies and tech will start to stagnate. You can't really use Q as this because that's not his job and they can't really fight him anyway at their current level of self/tech.

>>51201696
Whether or not the "federation" wins in the end there is still what happens to the individual parts of the federation. Characters can die, worlds could be destroyed and all sorts of other shit. Most religious people believe there is a fairly kickass afterlife but they don't just stop caring about the journey because of that.

>>51202310
No, keep the Borg tech. The Federation has leveled up past its prior enemies and can now explore the Beta and Delta quadrants in earnest, or build a QSD ship to explore the Magellanic Cloud dwarf galaxies that orbit the Milky Way. It also allows the writers to miniaturize and network the computers better to keep the setting feeling like OUR future.

>>51202075
>Throw in a scene with Prophet-Sisko and Q talking about the nature of time, non-linearity and how disappointing the future has become because of "time fleet".
>Put a scene like this at the end of every episode or major arc.

>>51202075
Do you have any idea how obnoxious that sounds? It just seems ridiculous. Would you really want to open a new series on "muh picard" and how the fuck is omnipotent energy being fuckery any less "setting destroying" than time travel? Q fucks the setting waaay more than time travel ever could.
>>51203690
Yeah or they could explore other dimensions, or we could get a show focused around a non-federation ship or hell maybe do the same shit they always do because every show had more advanced tech than the previous show and it didn't ever cause a problem before.

>>51203833
Q-centric episodes have a much better track record, though. Out of all the time travel episodes, and there are a fair few, I can really only think of 3 episodes that weren't dreadful.

>how the fuck is omnipotent energy being fuckery any less "setting destroying" than time travel?
Because Time travel consistently creates paradoxes and plot-holes, while Q's fuckery is generally with the here and now.

>>51202609
>I thought it was Minshara - isn't Mutara where WoK had the big showdown?

That is correct, yes. From the Vulcan planetary classification system of the 22nd (Earth) century.

>>51203991
I'm sorry but i don't see it that way, the very point that posters above are making about how Q could hand wave the borg away but "doesn't feel like it" shows just how much MORE of a problem he is for the plot.
I'm not saying they've handled time travel episodes well, I'm saying the concept of time travel is much less damaging to the setting than Q is.

>>51204133
Q is a GMPC with all the chains off. He basically exists outside the setting and serves as a way to let the main party know when they're being morons.

>>51204177
Thats precisely why i dont think he should ever be used outside of creating fun episodes. Fundamental alterations to the setting like "oh btw time travel is gone now" should never come from his hands and i really don't see why it should happen at all. There is nothing time travel does to make holes in the setting that the myriad of other ridiculous technologies like space belts dont already do.

>>51201696

to me the story isn't that the UFP wins, it's the journey there. I guess that's why I enjoy playing STO story content even though the game can be frustrating.

>>51205127
>to me the story isn't that the UFP wins, it's the journey there.
The problem with that mentality is it allows them to keep hammering on prequel series like Enterprise and Discovery. Eventually the canon timeline must progress past the destruction of Romulus or the franchise will fade and die.

>>51206317
I'm inclined to agree with this. Otherwise we may as well accept the inevitability of a reboot.

>>51206317
"The Journey" INCLUDES things past the destruction of Romulus. There is nothing about being okay with the 29th century time operatives that means we have to focus on prequels.

>>51206375
>>51206317

I'm ok with a reboot.

I still think there's a lot of ways to do star trek that have not been done. I quite liked JMS's pitch for an alternate take on the original series with season-long arcs and a defined overall story but heavily focusing on exploration. It had a lot of good ideas and well, Babylon 5 was very star trek in a lot of ways so that definitely could have transferred over in style.

And there's just a ton of room to remake the setting and make things more consistent, rather than reset button at the end of every show since the way TV programs work now is very different.

But I think there's far, far too much guff to deal with to even try and make something work from where star trek is at now. The time travel stuff is a mess, STO is a clusterfuck of awful, the novels are insane and mostly terrible, the leftovers of the shows and movies barely work together because they were never planned to, the word clusterfuck barely even scrapes the surface of how much of a mess the setting is if you go past the events of the 2009 film.

>>51206317
Lets not judge things unfairly. We don't actually know Discovery is going to be shit.

We just know that it is very probably going to be shit.

>>51207089
STO doesn't have to be regarded as canon, hell there's no particular reason to even regard the destruction of romulus or spock going back in time as canon.

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>>51207736
>Lets not judge things unfairly. We don't actually know Discovery is going to be shit.We just know that it is very probably going to be shit.
I don't like be a total ass about saying something is going to be shit. BUT LOOK AT THIS SHIP! LOOK AT IT! I don't think anything can save it at this point unless they scrap the whole design and start over.

>>51209363
Nothing will ever be as ugly and grotesque as the Enterprise-D so I'm fine with it.

>>51209363
I would love to have been present for the conversation where that was decided it was the way to go.

>We need a ship shape
How about this one we rejected decades ago for being ugly as sin
>Perfect

>>51209467
Look me in the eye and say that this design isn't light years ahead of the cartoon caricature JJVerse enterprise.

>>51209585
Not that anon, but imho they are both awful so I guess it's a tie.

>>51209585
I will look you square in the eye and tell you that this discovery shit is worse.

Not just because of what it represents with the end of Star Trek on TV and it's inglorious and wretched death but because it looks like utter shit beyond anything JJTrek shat out.

>>51209363

Christ, are they actually using McQuarrie's Star Destroyer Enterprise? The man was brilliant but not infallible.

>>51209585
It's worse. The JJprise is at least consistent even if it is a disproportional piece of crap.

This thing mixes all sorts of crap together with a ship that's supposed to be pre-TOS but included weirdly chunky bits alongside TNG-era curves and nacelles and that huge flat wing is just awful in proportions. It's a mess.

>>51209935
What do you mean pre TOS? I thought Discovery was meant to be between TOS and TNG?

>>51201696
>We now know the UFP wins, no matter what. So there's no risk left.
All it tells us is the Federations still exists in some form the far future. For all we know they could have fallen and reformed at some point. That's actually Bashir's prediction for what would happen if they lost the Dominion War.

Besides most Trek stories don't involve an existential threat to the Federation anyway. It was mostly just the Dominion War and the Borg attacks where they thought it my really be the end for their entire civilization.

>>51210005
If it is that's a seriously obsolete ship. The ship's registry number is way lower than anything seen even in TOS.

>>51210005
It takes place about a decade before TOS, and it's suppose to revolve around some event that has already been mentioned in canon but not directly explored.

>>51207089
>STO is a clusterfuck of awful, the novels are insane and mostly terrible
Those are both non-canon. Star Trek doesn't have an expanded universe in the same way Star Wars does. As far as the TV shows and movies are concerned, none of the other media matters.

>>51210005
It's supposed to set just after the initial launch of the Constitution class ships, during April's tenure as Enterprise Captain. So the Discovery is an older ship, maybe just after having undergone a refit. The nacelles, to me, look like ENT-era engines bundled together and placed in a larger frame, rather than newly built.

>>51210962
>like ENT-era engines bundled together and placed in a larger frame, rather than newly built.
You can try to justify why the ship looks the way it does all you want. But it doesn't fix the problem that for a Star Fleet ship of that era it looks all kinds of wrong. It looks like a kit bash of old Klingon BoP parts put together with any old left over Fed parts hey had lying around. I mean that could be what happened to create this abomination but that still doesn't make it a good idea. Not an attack on you anon just my rebuttal to your opinion.

>>51207736
You know what would be entertaining?

The Discovery is an older cruiser now relegated to border patrol and basic supply missions. The crew is full of every "meh" officer that Starfleet could cram onto it and it's track record is spotty, at best (I hear they're banned from Argo Station). Short of some cataclysmic emergency, the Discovery is left well enough.

Then, during a tense standoff with Klingons, a sector-admiral looks through the list of local ships and comes across the Discovery. He reads the registry, 1031, and makes the incorrect assumption that she's a cover ship for section 31. Confident that they can sort things out, the Admiral tasks the Discovery with a highly dangerous mission behind enemy lines.

>>51211187
See I figure the Discovery might actually be a crock of shit, patched together and jury-rigged with non-Starfleet tech during the early days of the Federation (the period between 2166-2210, likely towards the end) as a response to aggression from some other power. Probably Klingons.

As for whether it looks appropriate for a ship of the time, we really don't know. Besides the Kelvin we have no basis for what the designs of those interim years looked like. The Connie was a clean, elegant design, sure, but that doesn't mean that the ships that preceded it were as well designed.

>>51211278
There's a lot of potential for the era covered but really, fuck Section 31 and sticking them in anything more than they've already been in.

>>51211928
>Section 31
The problem with that was they went too 'X-Files' with that shit. It should never have come out of the shadows. There should have just been rumors and guys that could be connected to them but you were never sure not even the audience that's how they should have done it.

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>>51209363
It's an unpopular opinion, but I absolutely love the design. My immediate impression was that it looked way too clunky, but it grew on me quick. I like that 70s retro-ish aesthetic, conflicting shapes, bronze hull.

Fuckin tasty.

season 11 finale tonight for my STO RP group lads

I would not be surprised if my Vulcan security officer kicks the bucket.

>>51212730
>I would not be surprised if my Vulcan security officer kicks the bucket.
But there are so many deus ex tropes in Trek to keep him from dying in any meaning full way. Why even kill him better off making the guy marry a Japanese hate ghost much more entertaining.

>>51212811

>so many deus ex tropes in Trek to keep him from dying

and we've used one or two before (not for him but for others). This time though, I don't think there is any way out of this.

An excerpt from the captain's log:

>We are however currently at Yellow Alert and traveling at Maximum warp, a few hours ago...long range sensors detected a Force 7...almost Force 8 Ion storm...almost a full sector in diameter hasformed and it is closing in on the station. Most traffic in the area has been diverted....however we have passed the point of no return...the only direction left to us to avoid this massive stormis to proceed forward...even the z axis has been cut off...our only safe port before the storm reaches us....is the Starbase. All decks have been alerted and Ion Storm protocols are in effect...DCT's and Triage teams are in place on all decks. Current estimates have us arriving prior to beinghit...however Ada reports the storm is growing stronger and in flux....so we are in a footrace...against time and the storm.

>>51211187
>for a Star Fleet ship of that era it looks all kinds of wrong
How do you know? We have literally only one canon example of a Starfleet ship design from that era. Do you expect everything to be a kitbash of the Constitution-class like in the old technical manual?

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>>51212956

a technical manual, you say?

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Which one of you is this?

>>51215176

check your doffs bruh

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Really makes you think.

Some of you were looking for foundry missions. Well, looks like there's a decent database out there, with the rather basic name of foundrymissions.com. I don't know how comprehensive it is, nor how often it gets updates.

>>51212892
Sounds like fun, brih.

Are there any short, oneshot games for Star Trek? I feel like I could get my friends interested in playing Trek RPGs if they didn't have to commit to a multi session campaign from the get-go.

>>51219126

It was, we made to the starbase and then on their way to a meeting with an Admiral the first officer and captain were kidnapped by an unknown entity who calls himself "Diamond". The first officer was impaled and the captain lost her right arm during a battle with him.

>>51209437
take that back you fucking whore

>>51209585
>>51209656
It's a lot, LOT worse. It feels like they decided to go in the opposite direction from JJTrek's post-Post-POST-p.o.s.t-(neo)post-postmodern aesthetic in an awful, reactionary way, and make a ship with as many badly placed straight lines as possible.

Confession: I quite like some of the JJTrek look desu, especially the exterior curves against the super clean, futury interior - I just can't fucking stand how the rest of the ship is Tantive IV But With More Glass but engineering is Generic Industricool

>>51211278
>spoiler
noice.png

>idea
breddygud, actually

>>51212730
>>51212892
fucc, lowkey wish I could find a decent one

I'm incredibly shitty noobtier, but still, literally none of the grinding or dps-wank of the endgame appeals to me in any way.

https://eucl3d.com/
>Eucl3d has folded
>there will be no STO ship miniatures

Fugg

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>>51222300
>especially STO miniatures
>not just vanilla ones
>explicitly wanting Cryptic's shitty designs
>>>/out/

>>51222456
>he doesn't appreciate STO's Romulan designs.
>he doesn't want a model of his own ship sat on an aesthetically pleasing shelf

I bet you thought "threshold" was an alright episode, too.

>>51222456
The thing is, they would have made miniatures out of your personal ship(s) when asked for and paid by you.
All you would have had to do was either take some pics of your ship or click a button while in game so it would take a 3D picture of your ship.
So all the kitbashes, all the differently colored ships and even mirror universe versions of some ships could have been possible.

But now the dream is over.

>>51222456

I would have paid handsomely for ships that were important to me.

>>51224032
By the looks it was going to be 100-ish per model. So you'd want to be willing to pay handsomely.

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>>51221475
>engineering is Generic Industricool
The ship in general didn't really bother me, but I hated this so much. Why is engineering a brewery? Things shouldn't be visibly bolted together in a Federation starship. It clashes so hard with all other Trek aesthetics, including within the same movie. And they did it again with the warp core in Into Darkness.

>>51227360
I wonder how much of it was simply convenience of not building a big expensive set that captured the look desired by the director?

Because i suspect the answer is 'a lot'.

>>51227360
I would have been able to forgive it if they had placed a big oldschool warp core right at the centre of the distillery.

>>51209363
It's not without charm.

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>>51229032
>>51227360

Engineering looks like it was filmed inside an exsiting building, like a water treatment plant..

I guess its cheaper so you can afford more explosions and EXTREAM.

>>51227360
Because an industrial environment is more convincing to a general movie audience than an old fashioned Star Trek set.

>>51229283
>>51229352
Warp Core in ID was a fusion research facility, IIRC - which, in agreement with >>51229032 , is a LOT less forgivable than the rest of the shit they had going on.

>>51227360

"It's a series of tubes!"

>>51227360

I recently watched the first couple JJ-trek movies awhile ago, did Starfleet forget to reaserch shields in this timeline? Like I know they mention that they got shields but it seems like in these movies their ships just get torn to ribbons and half the crew dies.

Why can't we have more DS9-style Trek?

>>51230253
There's plenty of epic, serialized TV available now that make DS9 seem kinda dated.

Do the starfleet battles people still have their demi-license?

>>51230224

Shields in Star Trek - Abramstrek or otherwise - have always had pretty inconsistent performance. Refer to Dominion War battle scenes where non-plot-important ships get swiss-cheesed on the first volley.

Press 'F' for all those Mirandas.

>>51230224
>>51230403
Shields in regular trek are usually inconsistent (although the All Hands Lost can be explained by them being OLD AS SHIT), but the ones in Abramstrek seem nonexistent.

I think I read somewhere that they form a layer on top of the regular hull that's then strengthened against energy and kinetic attack? So like an unholy union of hull polarisation and SuperSaiyan!Janeway's ablative generators, but far wimpier than both. Or something.

>>51230224
>>51230403
We never get to see the nu-Enterprise face off against an era-normal foe though. It's always taking on a big, overwhelming supership. Maybe against a nu-D7 the shields would do something.

>>51230679

>Nu-D7

I was sure they were going to make the third movie about a klingon war considering they hinted at it in ID.

>>51230723
If only. The one thing I really liked about ID was the aesthetic of the Klingon soldiers. The faces, not so much, but the helmets combined with pseudo soviet trench coats and minimalist body armour was pretty good.

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>>51200620
Is anyone excited about the new RPG by Modiphius?

>>51230798

Agreed, the weapons and that little landing craft was neat too.

>>51230863
Somebody dropped the PDF for the play test a while back. While I'm cautiously optimistic about it, I think the current set up needs a lot of house rules to be balanced.

to be honest I kinda wish FFG would produce a few games for Trek, in the same way they've made a ton for Star Wars.

>>51230974
Frontiers and Ascension aren't enough for you?

>>51231111
Gonna level with you, I didn't know that wiz kids had produced any Trek stuff after attack wing. I must look into these.

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>>51227360
>PLEASE TELL ME THAT'S NOT AN ACTUAL SCENE FRON A JJTREK MOVIE!
I never saw the JJ stuff in the theatres and don't try to catch when they are on the TV. But whenever I do run across them by accident I have never seen this. Why?! Why, did they do that it looks worst than in ST:IV when they were on the USS Enterprise in the past. The only thing different is the clear pipes really.
>>51227980
The first rule about Sci-fi movies should be don't be cheap when it comes to sets and effects because it really shows.

>>51231156
My bad, it's not Ascension, it's Ascendancy, and it's by Gale Force Nine so the components are far better than cheap WizKids crap.

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>>51209437
Shit opinion is shit opinion.

>>51230974
Meh; I honestly think a lot of RPG's require house rules for balancing.

>>51231345
>that engineering hull
>those pylon and neck proportions
Fampai, JJPrise looks an absolute beaut in comparison

I wish there was a star trek RPG that was as easy access and playable as the westend games star wars RPG. that thing fucking nailed it.


Something with simple character creation without huge skill lists, no need to focus on star fleet throughout just a 'here's how to be X race/group', and some fluff to fill in how they tend to confront situations. Because the interesting bit of star trek is how they deal with bullshit problems.

>>51230974

I'm personally hoping that FFG picks up the aSoIaF rpg license from Green Ronin somehow. They already have all the other aSoIaF stuff and I think the not-d6 mechanics of Green Ronin's system would translate well into one of FFG's goofy dice systems. Basically a human-only WFRP.

>>51231598

WEG's Star Wars rpg used the d6 system, so just use that. Either take the generic version and customize it to your heart's content or just take the existing d6 Space and replace the names with Star Trek shit.

>>51230511
>I think I read somewhere that they form a layer on top of the regular hull that's then strengthened against energy and kinetic attack? So like an unholy union of hull polarisation and SuperSaiyan!Janeway's ablative generators, but far wimpier than both. Or something.
Star Trek shields are two (or more, but mostly two) layers. The first layer is the skin deflectors. This is a shield that's a few inches off of the hull, and protects against low energy hits and micro meteoroids. It's also been used as a secondary shield to reinforce the primary shield. The other is the standard shield bubble we see in Star Trek, where a beam hits the bubble a few dozen meters away from the hull and creates a semicircle effect.

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>>51231474
The Galaxy and D'deridex are neck-and-neck for the position of best ship design in the franchise.

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>>51230863
I really like that they're doing original art, instead of using screenshots from the shows like most Trek games do.

>>51232497
>still no goddamn belts
I hated that everything was velcroed in place on the TNG uniform. I'd have preferred a belt on it. Then again, I also want their pants to have a division stripe running down the outside of the legs, so I'm probably a weirdo.

>>51230974

I don't suppose that pdf is still around?

>>51232497
>TFW they really should have diapers built into their uniforms.
That scene must be like the worst day in the life of an ensign.

>>51232720
I have one part of it. I'll post it in a little bit but it's not the entire thing

>>51229283
It makes me happy seeing ss13 art pop up in threads like this.

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>>51232720
Here's the basic rules, I don't have any of the missions though. Pay special attention to the "momentum" rule.

>>51232308
I used to love the D'Deridex until playing STO made me hate it because of how awful it is in the game. Now whenever i see one i just become filled with irrational hatred.

>>51230863
I plan to start hosting it next week, but i am rather worried about some aspects of it.

>>51202666

>noise

>>51235271
>ss13
I had such high hopes for that game when I found it. Shame about the community for it being the worst.

>>51232602
>belt
What would be the point? Those things are one piece footie pajamas so there wouldn't be a need. Anyway in the trek future all UFP clothing is form fitting and stays up all on their own. In that kind of future using belts to keep your pants up went the way of the Dodo.

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>>51239517
Oh, but there are belts, though only admirals get to wear them.

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>>51237361
Seconded.

>>51239517
They look nice. You can put stuff in/on them. Like in TOS there was a set of thermal controls for the uniform in the belt.

>>51239791
In TOS the belt protected you from the vacuum of space. Why the fuck did they throw away the space belts?

>>51239517
It's not to hold your pants up, it's so that you have options as to where to put stuff. Otherwise they just awkwardly strap pseudopockets on to the onsies. Hell, why don't they have pockets too, fer chrissakes?

>>51235617

Thanks. I don't care for the 2d20 system itself but I like how they use events from well-known episodes as examples for game mechanics.

I'm curious to see the fluff they come up with.

>>51239702
>TFW THAT BELT
The belt buckle is cool but the rest of it needs a bit more style. It needs to be black and red stripes with bits of gray to break it up.

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>>51232308

>comparing the glorious D'deridex to Starfleet's down-syndrome child

>>51242444
Alright. How about you explain your exact issue with the Galaxy class?

DS9 would had been better if the Dominion wasn't a thing.

>>51243968
DS9 would have been better if the Dominions and Cardassians hadn't allied you mean. The dominion was fine up until that point, where suddenly everything made no sense
>Changeling lady tells Garek they intend to exterminate every Cardassian as revenge for the Tal Shiar/Obsidian Order attack
>Gul Dukat suddenly stops valuing Cardassian independence
>De'tapo Council removed from power almost immediately and bloodlessly despite massive support among the majority of the populace for multiple years
Seriously what the fuck it was like whoever wrote that teamup just hadn't watched a single episode of the show before.

>>51244093
>not understanding Founder long-term thinking
>not understanding Dukat's lust for power
>not understanding Dukat's powers of self-delusion
>not understanding fragility of self-rule in a people not only not used to it, but whose entire culture revolves around respecting and bowing down to authority

>>51244152

all of this.

>>51244152
The Founders always chose to "make an example" over long term thinking, they were an incredibly emotional people who visited great atrocities on people who resisted them at all and the Tal Shiar and Cardassians were the first people to try and attack them directly in thousands of years.

Dukat had a great deal of self-delusion going on but there were multiple episodes beforehand showing clearly his preference for nonviolent solutions (even if his cynicism made him believe they would almost never work) and his disdain for military rule.

It is because so many of the Cardassians no longer believed in that kind of sucking up to authority that the old way fell, it wasn't a coup it was a revolution caused by most Cardassians simply no longer thinking that way.

>>51244321
>The Founders always chose to "make an example" over long term thinking
Their examples generally speaking took a while. The Quickening, for example, was a long-term plague, which would play out over generations. To the Founders, which sent out scouts that wouldn't come back for centuries, destroying the Cardassians this year, or the next, or in a few decades, was all the same thing to them. Dukat gave them the opportunity to do just that, and probably more quickly than they would have hoped. That they got some use out of them before the eventual betrayal, so much the better.
>there were multiple episodes beforehand showing clearly his preference for nonviolent solutions
Yes, because you can't rule over someone who's dead. Dukat loved power more than anything, he would just delude himself into thinking he was benevolent and wise, doing whatever for the good of those he was over.
>his disdain for military rule
Top kek. He just didn't like not being at the top of the chain of command. The Founders gave him that opportunity (with the illusion of saving Cardassia and being semi-equal allies with the Dominion), and he took it. It was the same thing as before: he could see the writing on the wall, and sided with the Detapa Council over the Obsidian Order remnants, and then he got to be the head honcho over the military.
>it wasn't a coup it was a revolution caused by most Cardassians simply no longer thinking that way
It was pretty much the entire Obsidian Order getting revealed to be doing very illegal things and getting BTFO in the process that changed things. Even then the Detapa Council was an old institution, although mostly toothless (kinda like the Senate in the Empire), and was only in power about a year before the Klingons took care of that.

>>51243746
not him, but see >>51231474

>>51231474
>>51246532
But that argument makes no sense to me. It having different proportions to the Connie makes it inherently bad? It's a larger, more grandiose design. That doesn't make it disproportionate. If everything had to abide by the lines and proportions of the Connie then we wouldn't have the Excelsior, the Sovereign, the Defiant or the Akira.

>>51246991
>It's a larger, more grandiose design
Thats a bigger issue than anything that is simply a deviation of the connie design. Its a big fat luxury liner, not the sort of no-nonsense design logic you'd want for something supposedly meant for deep space exploration and/or combat. Its a big and expensive master of none because its too undergunned for a battlecrusier, too valuable to use for supply runs to distant outposts, and has too many civilian crew to justify sending into dangerous unknown space. At best its an overly costly survey ship, one that has a whole bunch of crap you don't need for that and takes enough resources to build that you could probably get 2-3 more modest ships for the same cost that would each be better for the job than a galaxy class. In terms of looks the Enterprise-C does the big and beefy look better and the Enterprise-E is as sleek as they come, the D tries to do both at the same time and looks like a sloppy turd for its trouble.

>>51246991
>>51247156
Bonus round, every example you list is nowhere near as terrible as the ship you're aiming to defend.

>Excelsior
longer nacelles and a different engineering section give it a unique profile while still showing a general configuration that shows its heritage and intent as a replacement for the aging constitution class.

>Sovereign
Pulls of the "organic" look of the galaxy class while still maintaining the sleekness of the excelsior class. Gives a good impression of being a nice and beefy vessel as well, WITHOUT needing the galaxy's wretchedly obese saucer section.

>Defiant
The exact opposite of the galaxy class in every way, largely because it isn't an obese space whale. The ships compact design shows that its design is committed to its mission inside and out, unlike the aimless and muddled direction the galaxy design took.

>Akira
Another dedicated combat vessel, the Akira pushes the envelope of what a starfleet vessel "should" look like while still retaining the essential traits of the main hull/nacelles. While most of its mass is still taken up by the saucer section it its tastefully balanced by its upscaled pylons, unlike the galaxy which just with a fuckhuge saucer and decided it would be fine with its already shortened nacelles and secondary hull.

>>51247156
>too undergunned for a battlecrusier,
At it's time it was the most powerful ship in Starfleet, by far. It's only "undergunned" in the sense that it's not absolutely covered in weapons and armor. They hypocrisy of being a "ship of exploration" in what is clearly to anyone else a warship was pointed out several times. The whole point of blowing up the Odyssey at the end of S2 DS9 was to show that the Dominion was such a huge threat that even the mighty Galaxy-class ship was vulnerable, and that a dedicated warship was needed.
>too valuable to use for supply runs to distant outposts
Except it did just that several times, as well as transporting diplomats and such.
>has too many civilian crew to justify sending into dangerous unknown space
The entire point in having so many civilians was to be able to go out into unknown space (which is inherently dangerous - see the weapons and such) for long periods of time, too long a tour for most people to be without their families.
>s a whole bunch of crap you don't need for that and takes enough resources to build that you could probably get 2-3 more modest ships for the same cost that would each be better for the job than a galaxy class
The thing is, the Galaxy can do all those jobs, and more, and can do them for longer periods of time. That was the whole point, why it's so big and has such a big crew: it's basically a flying mini-starbase/fort/research station, that can do all of those jobs easily and very effectively. Also, a lot of the tech that makes the Galaxy not top-of-the-line in the future was developed on Galaxy-class ships like the Enterprise.

>>51242444
Alright, fucky, explain to me how the D'Deridex isn't a ridiculous design.

>>51247510
Oh its got issues sure but at least its almost proportioned okay next to the abortionprise.

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>>51247510

>>51246991
Did I ever say having different proportions to the connie makes something inherently bad? Hell, the connie's pretty meh at best compared to all the other designs you listed intrepid master race, spicy boi, but that's completely besides the point.

The Galaxy class in general has its ups and downs - the saucer is breddygud if a bit thicc, and the nacelles are the kinda boxy crayonish shape I prefer over the longer ones of the Excelsior/Sovvie/et al. It's the engineering section that I can't fucking stand, as it meshes curves with the plain functional pylons and saucer just like the Excelsior did (except far, FAR worse). Every other ship has consistent design aesthetics...
>Sovvie: low and sleek but powerful
>Defiant: blocky and tough
>Prometheus: aggressive, stabby
>Nebula: Galaxy without the foetal alcohol syndrome
>Nova: bleeding edge, small but unorthodox (slightly)
...but the Galaxy just mixes and matches with no end goal in sight.

Also, the other guy has things very right - I wholeheartedly agree with >>51247156 and >>51247394, although the former can be explained by the UFP being complacent as shit and deciding to put all their eggs, as well as a sizable portion of the farm, in a few expensive baskets.

Better premise for Voyager: Instead of being trapped on the other side of the galaxy, Voyager is the first Federation ship to begin charting the Beta Quadrant on the other side of the Klingon Empire.

>>51248328
Wrong. Existing premise is perfectly fine, just disgustingly executed.

>>51248612
would've been nice if we saw them engage in actual scarcity stuff, adapting alien tech etc.

>>51248708
>what is the Delta Flyer

>>51248746
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k

>>51248793
>muh torpedoes
Easy enough to justify: by the third or so space kingdom, they would trade specs for actual weapons and parts. "Hey, we'll show you how to make our torpedoes, in exchange for you making some for us." Of course you wouldn't do this for places that are too low-tech, but anyone at least Cardie-level tech might want additional or alternative weapons, and a few mini warp reactors (probably the only parts Voyager can't manufacture on their own) wouldn't be a bad payment.

>>51248917
but we didn't see that on screen, the delta flyer is a stupid toy and mostly irrelevant to the story. YEah occasionally the shuttle matters to the plot but I wanted to see them replacing busted phaser banks with local weapons not torpedoes that fans have to justify existing.

>>51248917
>I don't understand how the Prime Directive works: the post

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>>51248989
Well, to be frank I don't think the writers of that at times horrible show knew what the fuck that was at times or cared really.

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>>51248989
Indeed you don't. Prime directive is about not interfering in internal matters (including the """""natural""""" development of a species). There is nothing there about trading things, especially technologies, that are equivalent to what they already have. Whether it's a good idea or not is another question, but that's not PD material.

>>51248612
They weren't boldly going or advancing the human condition though. My idea keeps both the spirit of Voyager, as well as ST as a whole.

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No wonder he got btfo by some 30+yo jam hurdurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwZiezIxCVU

>>51249395
>natural development of a species
>giving them weapon designs
>when the early Prime Directive episodes were paper-thin Vietnam allegories

>>51249442
Not him, but was DS9 doing that either? Hell, even TNG has a sizable chunk of generic interfaction politics instead of le ebin final frontier meme - I thought we spend the vast majority of these threads extolling how Gene's "super utopia where the only thing left to do is explore" setting is, in fact, pretty shit

>>51249945
True enough, and DS9 is my favorite series. I suppose I just don't like the lost in space theme.

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>>51250029
>Lost in Space
>Better than lost in time
>TFW who here would still do an old lady Jadzia?
Raises hand

>>51247510
The folks designing ship models for Star Trek originally tried to follow a rule that warp nacelles had to have a clear line of sight to each other in order to make a warp bubble. The idea behind the D'Deridex was to follow that rule without sticking the nacelles out on struts.

Of course Star Trek is inconsistent and plenty of ships violate that rule. Sometimes having no nacelles at all, like the Klingon bird-of-prey.

>>51248989
The Federation seems to have no problem trading with and helping out post-warp species, from what I've seen.

>>51252850
No ships outside Starfleet seem to follow that rule, maybe it's just super-secret FoP tech that makes warp more efficient or something.

What's the appeal of Star Trek? The production values and writing are both awful. They often directly contradict themselves episode to episode or scene by scene. The technology is retarded in function and form. The aliens are men with funny noses and one-note cultures. How can you watch this?

>>51254154
Given the existence of the defiant it appears that Starfleet isn't following that rule either

>>51254154
In universe it's all due to design heritage from the Phoenix, the hopped up totally not a NASA capsule with a warp engine in the back. IIRC in ENT the NX class had far better maneuverability at warp compared to the Alcubierre ring design of Vulcan ships due to the layout, which seems to carry over even with stubby, limited nacelles like the Intrepid, Defiant, and all the shuttle and runabout types. I suspect that's part of why other races don't do the Picard Maneuver.

>>51254628
The Defiant has nacelles, they're just wrapped in armor so they don't present a weak point.

>>51254651
I get that. My point is thawt there is no clear line of sight between the two because the rest of the ship is in the way.

But then again the entire thing has a cloaking device and a nice compact shape. So who gives a shit about warp manoeuvrability when you can sneak in close and zip around them and fuck their shit up in high speed impulse.

>>51254358
>production values
Were great. Especially in DS9 where they had larger sets, as well as much more diversity in locales.

>writing
"The Inner Light", "The Wounded", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Balance of Terror", "City on the Edge of Forever", "The Enterprise Incident", "In the Pale Moonlight", "Duet", "Waltz", "Latent Image", "United". Each of the episodes listed is not only an example of good writing, but of great writing.

>the often contradict themselves
Primarily in "the bad seasons" but yes, this is actually a problem with the franchise. It's less apparent in later TNG and DS9, where longer story arcs made the whole plot more coherent. TOS, Voyager and Enterprise were all episodic and the writers had a nasty tendency to ignore previous material in order to fulfil their own vision.

>the tech is dumb
Not really. Most of the tech is eithers directly based off of real world theories or a reflection of where technologists think our progression will take us. For instance, Star Trek had touch screens and automatic doors well before we had them in the real world, because that's where we were heading.

>the aliens are men with funny noses and one note cultures
Well, that first point is just a limitation of special effects and the fact that your actors can't magically grow extra limbs. There are non-humanoid species in Trek, but they don't make large appearances because that shit's pricy. As for the 1 note cultures. I suggest you try watching the show for more than five minutes. Plenty of the recurring alien species are shown to have distinct cultural divergences.

>>51255207
Except that cave. They had no production value in that cave. EVERY PLANET AND HOLOSUITE PROGRAM IS IN ONE CAVE

>>51255207
Also they did come up with a reason as to why every alien looks the same, its the same reason why with minimal medical intervention they can crossbreed. Preservers are narcissistic fucks.

>>51255511
Precursors, not Preservers.

>>51255574
They are the same race according to the writer.

>>51255802
Oh I thought your autocorrect was just acting up a bit.

>>51255971
To be honest the episodes themselves dont make it clear if they are the same race, but the writer said they are and the comics/games maintain that they are.

>>51254358
>The production values and writing are both awful
>awful production values
Trek always had some of the best production values on TV, particularly when it came to sfx. That (relatively) huge budget was why the original series was canceled twice, and Enterprise was also canceled, because they couldn't justify it with the (relatively) poor ratings those shows had.

>>51248032
>Thinking Voyager doesn't look like ass

I can accept most of your other points, even if I don't agree with them. But the intrepid class is possibly the blandest ship in all of Starfleet. Not the worst, that honour goes to the Norway.

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>>51254154
>No ships outside Starfleet seem to follow that rule
Most Klingon and Romulans ships, and all Jem'hadar ships follow it.

>>51256939
Even my cryptic designed "Ha'nom warbird" just barely follows it. The upper parts of the nacelles are the highest section on the ship, so they do have some line of sight to each other.

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So /stg/, what are your opinions on the Gorn?

Also, for anyone still playing STO come join the /v/ chat channel because it's pretty dead already, and who doesn't like private chat channels?

>>51257546
They are a good idea in principle but another example of sci-fi writers, Star Trek ones in particular, having no sense of scale.

Their golden age was ~15,000 years ago and they consider all the old worlds of that empire still their territory and the source of much conflict.

To be at a level comparable to Star Fleet they would need to have been kicked back down. If that was recently then there would be more evidence of them on those worlds they still call theirs.

If it happened a long time ago then how have they remembered? Given that it has taken them 15,000 years to get back to warp they must have landed back in the Neolithic or near it.

Still not as bad as the Voth getting their ass handed to them by humanity in STO despite a 65,000,000 year advantage.

>>51257546
How do i do that?

>>51257622
I haven't finished all the missions yet, but isn't it the Vauddwar who are fucking up the Voth and we are just sort of claiming victory for kicking them whilst they are down?

>>51257652
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Global_Channel_Directory

Chat channel name is just v, in lower case.

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>>51257652
There should be a directory or something under chat settings or some other window, you'll be able to search for channels you want, so just search '/v/' and you should be fine.

>>51257668
I haven't played much STO, but that doesn't sound any better. The episode that introduced the Vaadwuar indicated that their tech is well behind other races in their region of space, because they've been in stasis for 900 years.

Which is actually another good example of sci-fi writers having no sense of scale. The Vaadwuar's enemies were roughly on par with Voyager in the episode. But they were apparently warp capable almost a thousand years ago.

For that matter the episode also indicates that the freaking Telaxians were already colonizing other planets back then. What happened to them? Does technological progress in the delta quadrant just peter out after a race invents warp?

Ensign cutie engaged to be married. Uncomfortable with humans having cavalier sexual attitudes.

goes to church in he holo deck

>>51258019
>Does technological progress in the delta quadrant just peter out after a race invents warp?
I suppose it could be a survivor bias. The races that still exist in the Delta Quadrant were either advanced enough to defend themselves from the Borg (Voth, Hirogen?) or stayed primitive enough not to draw their attention.

>>51258019
It seems like a lot of places outside of the Alpha/Beta quadrants are stagnant. Nobody looks to progress, only to conquer.

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>>51257546
Cool designs, fits right in with the TOS aesthetic. Neat backstory in their collective guilt over being unwittingly the cause of another race's extermination, long running rivalry with the Romulans and tactics around fighting them, and nice that they're Federation allies due to similar ideals rather than being permanently stuck as an antagonist race because of their first/only appearance which was covered as two young captains acting very brashly compared to the more typical contemplative commanders.

They do some fun stuff with Plasma torpedoes and the design of the ships being based on a frugal decision to build basically 2/3rds of a ship and then have the extra saucer module to attach in war-time to bring the armament/systems up is a good way of doing the modular ship design thing but in a way that's applicable across an entire fleet.

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>>51260078
Though if anything they need more of the chunky detailing, I hate the 'scale' detailing because lollizardpeoples seems to be the only reasoning, and it's not even decently covering.

>>51257546
Pretty cool guys, severely underutilized, especially in the KDF missions. The new klink sci ship, as much as I like it, should have been Gorn. (They just need T6 versions in general.) Their role is supposed to be the Smart Warrior Race, but they never get to do it except in the one TOS mission.

>>51257668
The fact that the Alliance can even deal with the Voth at all in the dyson sphere is a joke in itself. In VOY they were so far advanced the humans were basically cute little critters to them. The Vaaduar are able to deal with them in one (1) mission, because they had surprise Iconian tech in their ships (which is able to be dealt with pretty easily I guess).
Speaking of, the Voth in the sphere thing is never truly resolved. Are we to assume they just buggered off after the Undine btfo of that one ship?

>>51260228
>Humans make all our vehicles look like us in real life
>But when aliens do it its silly
Cognitive dissonance much?

>>51258019
ENT actually covers this. Humans scrambling up the tech tree like monkeys on PCP and meth is pretty much our "hat" in Trek. Even the Vulcans were terrified that we were warp capable so quickly after WWIII because it took them like 500 years to do a similar thing. From their perspective it was the 1950s last Thursday (ENT: Carbon Creek) and then BY SURAK'S LEFT NUT IS THAT A WARP SIGNATURE!?

>>51260651
>Humans make all our vehicles look like us in real life

Wut. Maybe cars with the lights and grills as 'faces' but you don't see planes/warships stylised in that way except through art added on. And most of the time not even that. Also the Gorn are supposedly a very practical and restrained so wasting resources on purely decorative elements for the outside of a ship isn't really their thing.

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>>51259706
>It seems like a lot of places outside of the Alpha/Beta quadrants are stagnant.
Hell, even where the UFP, KE, and the RR, the tech kind of slowed down a lot since they seem on par with each other. Their tech has gotten better yes but it still very much the same as from TOS to TNG. We only see true breakthroughs when the Borg come knocking and force radical change in advancement. All the space empires were happy with slow progress and equal tech for the most part. I mean if the Feds put things into production like the Prometheus class. And then versions like it at the cruiser, heavy cruiser and the dreadnought classes I'm not sure what the Klingons or Romulans could really do. I'm guessing they could just counter with numbers but that gets costly after a while.

>>51263555
>*where>with

>>51260790
It could be explained away as extra armor of a sort or some other gimmick that's important to ship.

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>>51257546
>somebody saved my picture
thank you, anon

>>51263555
>Their tech has gotten better yes but it still very much the same as from TOS to TNG.
Replicators, "solid" holograms, and dermal regenerators were all developed sometimes between TOS and TNG.

>>51264229
What always strikes me as strange is they cant agree on what holograms are.
Half the episodes say its force fields with an image on top, the other half say its replicated matter puppet with an image on top.

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>>51264281
>What always strikes me as strange is they cant agree on what holograms are.
I don't think VOY is right a lot of the time but I would take their version of holograms which seems to be the former from all the stuff done with the Doctor.

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Fly-through hanger decks are cool.

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Newest version of the Modiphius RPG dropped last night.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lqf2vy54nszz3/STAR_TREK_Adventures_Alpha_Test_v1.3

Drainanon from a few threads back again - does anyone still use STO for RPing? It's that or dps bashing to grind shit and get the shiniest new cryptic ships, so...thought it'd be worth a try

>>51266953
Does anyone actually have any ideas for running a game of this?

>>51267321

I'm RPing in STO right now.

>>51268097
So how does RPing in STO even work are you all just Captain 'Fuck all the rules' or do you actually roll play different members of your crew?

>>51268650

it depends on how you want to do it. our fleet does crew based episodic roleplay using in game chat channels and custom character sheets. Tonight I play the role of a Lieutenant junior grade Bajoran engineer.

>>51266698
I'm gonna be straight with you. I HATE that ABOMINATION of a GARBAGE design with almost the intensity of my MASSIVE, THROBBING boner for that GORGEOUS hangar bay.

That said, fighters are inefficient for Trek space combat.

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>>51268826
I take it she's not done well for you in play.

Fighters are kinda crap though, yes. Though there is probably some logical way to incorporate them. DS9 used things akin to a combat focused runabout reasonably well as a method of... well they were there. They don't really add anything that a single ship the combined mass of a squadron of fighters wouldn't do just as well if not better.

The best they get really is the space equivalent of coastal torpedo boats where needing to cover more territory than a few destroyers might manage.

Well, except in the starfleet museum romulan war stuff where they add much needed engagement range to a fleet without risking the big ships.

>>51268990
The info on these sites are total fanfic tier right? And have no bearing on any thing else really correct? I mean they're interesting but the info they give is garbage in relation to the canon of the TV and movie stuff. I say that knowing that stuff not that consistence either. I'm just wondering where sites like that base their info on.

>>51269401
Yes, they're fanfic. Some people like it, and it's neato if you're doing an actual /tg/ game.
>implying anyone here does /tg/ Trek stuff

>>51268990

That pic you posted would have made a magnitudes better ship for 'Discovery' than the Stardestroyerprise.

>>51268990
>coastal missile boats
Now I want to see a Black Lagoon equivalent in the Bajoran sector with a milsurp Danube and Klingons instead of Soviets.

>>51268990
The real issue is that the assumption is that fighters in space could be as effective as fighters in air, but, at least in Star Trek, fighters cannot carry ordinance sufficient to significantly damage capital-scale vessels. The Yamato was ultimately sunk by bombs and torpedoes, but fighters in Trek can't carry enough weapons (at least, not as they have ever been shown in-universe) to destroy, say, a D'Deridex or a Jem'Hadar Dreadnought.

>>51270272
All they need is a well-placed torpedo. Having more fighters gives you more angles to place that torp. And not every enemy is a battleship.

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>>51270395
Why not cut out the middle man and just launch more torpedoes from your ship? They can guide themselves to the target.

>>51270395
Maybe so, but the point of fighters is force projection. They can travel further, faster, for cheaper, than a surface ship (talking IRL navy here, not Trek). The universe presented in Trek does not seem to follow this, and smaller, but still fully ship sized, vessels, seem to be the fastest (stuff like a Steamrunner running hot, or the Defiant or Prometheus) and most efficient methods of delivering weapons fire. There's no real reason to use a squadron of slower, shorter-ranged, more vulnerable fighters when you could send a Saber for the same opportunity cost, and be more sure of it returning, having dealt likely more damage.

>>51270612
I think bombers would be more effective but then you would need fighter support to protect them. Ship to ship in space with bombers could be pointless but in ground assaults they could be vital. Since many large ships are good at attacking planets usually unless you want to glass the whole place.

>>51271968
>*aren't

One thing fighters do well is attrition. A dozen fighters can deal more damage, at least temporarily, then a battleship, but loosing a dozen 50 ton fighters and pilots hurts a lot less then loosing a 5 million ton battleship and its 900+ crew. They're great for Klingons in that way, individual honor and such. I don't see Starfleet using them unless they're desperate, such as the Dominion War.

the question is /tg/ would you enlist in starfleet

a career in security or as a science officer might not be the worst since you probably won't die a painful death in engineering should something go wrong

>>51273156
As a temporal minority I'd be almost guaranteed a spot in the academy, so sure.

>>51273156
Sure why not? As long as you don't sign up for the mothballed fleet of ships and avoid a Miranda, or any ship that regularly interacts with the Enterprise, you'll be fine.

>>51273156
No. On a federation world I'd be free to pursue my own interests and work towards what i want, and what i want is generally not a dangerous job that brings a lot of attention.
Starfleet is for people who want glory, excitement and adoration, I'd rather operate some kind of reading cafe or take part in hologames or something.

>>51273156
I'd ideally join up with the intention of going into ship design. It seems like plenty of professionals join Starfleet and never have to lose all their hands on a voyage of the damned(Miranda) and that's probably what I'd pursue.

>>51273870
This. Starbase duty for me.

>>51273870
Why not design ships outside of starfleet? You could do designs for starfleet as well, but many planets or individuals still need ship designs for civillian purposes such as transport, industrial trade, planetary defense, law enforcement in the frontiers, non-starfleet scientific expeditions and countless other purposes.

>>51273945
That would also work. I feel like Starfleet would be a good way to get into that field though.

>>51273990
Starfleet academy would teach you starfleets way of understanding engineering, technology and ship design. Starfleet already has tens of thousands of people like that, what makes you think that you will use that training better than them?
You must learn other ways to do shit if you want to be succesful, there are many races who's ship design philosophies and technologies would be invaluable if they were updated to the current age. Starfleet mostly uses human ship designs, but imagine if they were to incorporate more andorian design or to incorporate ferengi deflectors or whatever bits of technology you could learn about somewhere else.

>>51274054
Starfleet builds the best ships. Thus we can assume they have the best design school, likely adjacent to one of their core shipyards ( Earth, Mars, Antares). Sure, I could go build ships for the Ferengi or Bajorans but that's like turning down Oxford to attend a similar course in Leeds. Sure, you'll learn a bunch but not to the same comprehensiveness or quality.

>>51274134
Wrong. Starfleet builds the most prevalent ships. Romulans, The Dominion and countless minor races build ships on par with or better than starfleet ones and even plenty of races in the federation even if their ships are overall worse do better in one aspect. If you can introduce those aspects into starfleet ships it will mean a lot more than being a nameless mook who has the same design as everyone else.

>>51274165

>Romulans have better ships.

When has that ever been true beyond 'Have access to a bit of tech starfleet has a treaty against using'

>>51274174
Aren't the scimitar and D'Deridex supposed to be pretty amazing?

>>51274165
>Romulans and Dominion
Funnily enough I don't think they hire many Federation contractors. Unless I intend to enjoy the hospitality of the Tal Shiar or a Vorta interrogator I'll steer clear.

>countless minor races build ships on par with or better than starfleet ones and even plenty of races in the federation even if their ships are overall worse do better in one aspect.

Let's have a look see.
>Bajorans
Probably the most likely to take on a Terran, but their ships are rust buckets and patrol craft. Would almost be worth it for the possibility of getting jumped by a cutie Bajoran Engineer.

>Ferengi
I don't want to build budget cruisers that fail the week after the warranty is up.

>Cardassians
A Nebbie with shields down could still handily take a Galor in combat.

>Talarians
Overtly hostile to humans

>Gorn
Decent ships but I have no idea if they'd take outsiders.

>Children of Tama
Temba, his arms wide. Kadir, beneath Mo Moteh. The beast at Tanagra. Kiteo, his eyes closed. Temba at rest. Shaka, when the walls fell. Mirab, with sails unfurled.

Who else would I approach?

>>51273156
Honestly I'd much rather live in post-scarcity paradise on earth. Starfleet would be one of the most difficult and dangerous career options open to a Federation citizen.

>>51274273
I more meant the one-off episode races and the races already in the federation. The dominion and romulan example weren't examples of places you should go, but rather proving that starfleet doesn't necessarily have the best ideas and you could study elsewhere to develop competitive ideas.

Besides in the Bajoran case is actually a good example as you would likely have your ship design approved for being better than what they already have and it would give you the opportunity to study and ascertain the viability of unique bajoran technologies like tachyon sailers.
>>51274344
Yeah and somehow Captain Sisko cant figure out why Jake doesn't want to join.

>>51274197
The D'Deridex is decent but it's shown that a Galaxy class starship is easily a match for 1, when it comes down to it. As for the scimitar, she was designed by nega-Picard and some Nosferatu looking fuckers in a mining camp, not by the Romulan navy.

>>51274358
That's not a bad point. There would certainly be more room for advancement as well as the opportunity to have a lasting positive effect on the world.

>Yeah and somehow Captain Sisko cant figure out why Jake doesn't want to join.

This always bothered me. It seems like choosing not to serve in Starfleet is much more common choice than not.

>what do you mean you don't want to join Starfleet.
>it's a great life experience.
>you get to go to a prestigious school
>explore the galaxy
>you know, on a starship
>like the one you nearly died on
>like the one that your mother was concussed and immolated on board

>>51274374
That strengthens my point then, if a bunch of miners and a retarded clone can do better than a Saucer with two wine bottle openers stuck in the side so can you!

>>51274429
The overwhelming majority of the federation doesn't give two shits about star trek and given how a sufficiently advanced socialist economy would work probably doesn't have a traditional "job" at all and if they do its for minimal hours. Seriously the thing about Starfleet is its made up of volunteers, thats why they are all so fucking insane. In real life normal people do those jobs because they need a house and food, these people get that shit no matter what they do they CHOOSE this work, that's why they are all so eccentric.

>>51274134
Well, if you freelance you can use tech that's not UFP approved like phase-cloaks and new and different engine designs that aren't warp based maybe something like warp tunneling similar to what the Borg use.

>>51274448
>star trek
I meant to say star fleet. Im sure they care a lot about their own universe.

>>51274455
>if you freelance you can use tech that's not UFP approved
>if you don't work for the UFP you don't have to abide by their laws
>???
>if you don't work for Uncle Sam it's okay to post cheese pizza?

Considering the current topic, a while back there was a great thread. It asked the question: if you were you, exactly as you are now, what job/course would you take in the Star Wars universe.

So I ask that same question of all of you now. Being brutally honest, knowing yourself like no one else can, what would you do if you were dumped on Earth circa 2370? You have roughly equivalent contemporary knowledge to what you have now (i.e. If you're an IT expert IRL, you're also an LCARS expert in 2370). You're generally the same person and your life experiences are analogous. So, wat do?

>>51274714
Sudoku immediately if I'm dropped into the Star Wars universe with only Star Trek knowledge. Or go work for Sienar and make the BEST GODDAMN TIE FIGHTER OF ALL TIME.

Dropped into Star Trek with what I know now? Join Starfleet like those folks from the episode where they woke up the Accountant, Homemaker and Singer, and advocate tactics that involve not being shit at fighting wars.

>>51274714
I wouldn't go anywhere near Starfleet. My dream would be to become a writer and historian. Hanging out in >>51273813 anon's cafe on my days off and talking literature/politics with my friends would be the high point of my week.

>>51274714
Shitpost over subspace and post bait threads on /kdf/

>>51274714
Every job I've every done IRL are things Star Trek computers could do on their own. I'd probably be an unsuccessful holo-novel writer. But that would be okay, because you don't need money on earth.

>>51274714
create /spaceypol/ and shitpost about the interstellar vulcan conspiracy

damn pointy ears

>>51274714
Get some of that sweet future medicine to fix my stack of problems and then because I'm fucking useless just spend my time running archaic wargames for people. Which'd probably do ok because the player base would be worldwide with how fast people could get around.

>>51275045
Hey /kdf/, could you explain to me how hiding from your enemies with a cloaking device is honorable? I was just curious.

>>51275420
Could you imagine?
>looking for a group to run a rouge trader game with
>some dudes from brazil interested
>just transport down to Rio and import my campaign program to the local holonet

>>51275452
>/kdf/ will defend this
>Gow-wrong-kins will defend this.

>>51275045
Hey /kdf/, if the Romulans are so pathetic why haven't you beaten them yet?

>praxis destroyed
>Klingons become number 1 chucks for the Federation
>Klingons don't think Vulcans were responsible
Cuck'pla, ridge-heads.

>>51275466
>Anyone interested in playing a week-long game of 30 years war campaigning, emphasis on gritty realism and strategic manoeuvre, combining miniatures for battles and a hex-map boardgame?
>get a half dozen replies form all over the planet
>cool, meet up at my place, there's a hall nearby we can use.
>everyone makes it because no-one actually has to deal with shit like jobs getting in the way.
>universal translator means even that Andorian historian that turns up isn't a problem and we can use original 1600s german/swedish/french texts for reference.

Borgposters please fuck off back to the >>>/d/eltaquadrant

>>51275613
>Games go off without a hitch because the npcs act like people.
>people ERP in private, on their own time
>predictive algorithms mean that your group can never get off the rails
>your campaign waifu is real and sentient

Way of the future, lads.

>>51275466
Transporter tech is like the only thing the federation rations, because it uses so much damn energy. That said couldn't you just go to a local holosuite and the guys in rio go to theirs and it just transmits a holo image of whats going on to each other?

>>51275879
>2370
>not paying for a premium transporter pass
Tellarites pls go

>>51275879
You can always use more conventional transport. Transporters are not the only way. In that Voyager episode where Kim got stuck in an alternate reality when he was back on Earth he travelled from San Francisco to somewhere in France in something like half an hour by shuttle-bus. Get to take more luggage that way too I'd expect.

>>51276264
Just sayin that transporter use is one of the only "rationed" things on federation worlds.
>>51276115
Paying with what exactly? Paying who?

>>51276986
Energy Credits to whatever appropriate authority looks after transporter rations.

>>51276986
Just pointing out there's other, better alternatives for meeting up than use a holosuite, which is by it's very nature incredibly energy intensive.

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Hey /ufp/, got a story to tell you all
>be me
>deflector officer, assigned to a Nova class, nothing special
>have nothing to do but check on particle samples we keep on hand in case the cap needs to pull some space magicbullshittery
>cap pulls up for shore leave and a refit at ESD
>there's seven-foot-fall officers armed up to the eyeballs and officers wearing honest-to-god iconian shit sprinting frantically back and forth between the transporters and the exchange
>haha no thanks, decide to stay onboard and fuck around on the holodecks
>head up to deck 3
>catch 8.5/10 qt trill heading out
>she's (no names, you creepy fucks) a holotechnician who agreed to try and tweak the algorithms to be a little more power-efficient
>she gets passage to Cait since we're heading there for a diplomatic dinner or some shit
>everyone wins
>I nod dumbly and occasionally laugh while she tells me all this, mostly thinking about how I'd steal a Prometheus-class just to protect that smile
>quickly dart into holodeck as soon as she leaves, screaming internally
>c'mon anon, you've seen this all play out on /borg9k/ countless times - you can do better than that, and maybe even pic related
>begin browsing through holodeck catalogue of beautiful and artsy and romantic as shit places

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>>51277211
>continue doing this shit for over a week, sitting around in the holoscene and playing it out on my own
>inb4 autism, I feel like I'm actually getting some confidence in myself for the first time since the Warp Theory exam in the academy
>bump into her one day outside Holodeck 2

>"Hi anon! Figures I'd see you around here again."
>>"O-oh yeah, I was just, just gonna see if we picked up any new holonovels at the last stop."
>She glances around then gives me an honest-to-god wink.
>boner hardens faster than a polarised hull plate
>"You don't need to lie, anon, I know your type."
>redalert.wav
>not fully prepared yet, wasn't expecting to have to do this for another few days at least, but I may as well take the chance now
>>"Really?"
>"Yeah, you're not the-"
>>"Because I'm the type-"
>"-first person I've had to-"
>>"-who wants to find out-"
>"-a holographic girlfriend for."
>>"-if those spots go all the way down."
>absolute, dead silence across what feels like the entire ship
>>"I-I, uh, I gotta go, I don't wanna waste my slot."
>try to hurry past her into the holodeck
>targ milk starts leaking from my combadge, seeping into my duty uniform
>right in front of her

>mfw I have to spend another two and a half months onboard this tiny-ass ship with her around
>mfw she probably told everyone else afterwards
>mfw I just wanna steal the Waverider and fly directly into the nearest star

>/k/ quick where are the lifeboats on a Miranda?
>someone just sneezed on the warp core

>>51277211
>>51277443
>targ milk starts leaking from my combadge
Eh, breddygud. I chuckled sensibly.

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Question of critical importance:

PEW-PEW phasers or PWARRP phasers?

>>51279524
I personally like TNG's PSEEEEERRRRR! phasers.

>>51279524
I am a fan of the PSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHH! of the TNG and the high pitched PWPWPWPWPWPWPWPWPWPW! of TOS.

But my favorite, and you may hate me for this, is the ohgodwat of STO where you get the biggest ship you can and fill it full of beam weapons no two the same.

The Disco Whale lives.

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>>51279624
TNG does have some damn good phasering in places. That first time they encountered the Borg and we saw phaser taking chunks out of the cube was a good one.

>>51279524
I really liked those BRRRRRRRRT phasers from WoK.

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>>51279524
I'm happy as long as they're beams and not this.

And yes I know the Defiant has blaster phasers too. I'm not a fan of that either.

>>51279524
WoK phasers are my favourite. Wish we could get them in STO, but I'll settle for the nuTrek ones for now.

>>51274714

Try to find a qt Vulcanoid girl who is neither a) an emotionally repressed turboautist that only has sex once every seven years or b) a lying, thieving, murdering, all-around backstabbing sociopath with a Cro-Magnon forehead.

Or I just go to Risa and hang myself in the hotel room.

>>51280058

This. 110% this.

The ship-based phaser cannons in DS9 were bad enough but the hand 'phasers' in Nemesis and Abramstrek are inexcusable.

>>51201696
The point of Star Trek is exploration.
Mainly exploration of new species, cultures and structures of society.
Other exploration is philosophical.

We know there's an advanced UFP in 600 years.
But we don't know if borg and Dominion is gone.
We still don't know what's in the overall center of the galaxy.

Is there a star trek series starting this year?

>>51280881

It's been delayed again and will most likely be shit .

>>51280952
"The decision to not make the series' protagonist a starship captain, like those of previous Star Trek series, was made "to see a character from a different perspective on the starship—one who has different dynamic relationships with a captain, with subordinates, it gave us richer context"."

well fuck me

>>51280746
Reminder that we don't even know that there'll be a UFP in 600 years, only an organisation that vaguely resembles something like what it could be

>>51281050
Which is just silly, seeing as nearly ever series has plenty of episodes dedicated to other members of the crew.

>>51275202
>>51275452
>>51275493
>>51275533
>>51276115
>>51277211
>>51277443
Trekchan when?

>>51281050
>entire series is lower decks
might be cool

>>51281254
>entire series
The bits on the Discovery maybe. Not so much in the Klingon parts, since the whole "uniting the houses" thing (along with the casting of Sarek) points towards a more political view on that side.

>>51281500
>uniting the houses
So the exact same Duras plot-line we've had twice already, then

>>51257546
>what are your opinions on the Gorn?
>STO

...Fucking gimped by microtransactions
Death of STO

So I'm looking for DS9 ship miniatures, and it seems Heroclix, and Attack Wing are the only recent large production lines of them? Everything else seems to be a handful of select collectables.

>>51279694
Rainbow boat, not Disco Whale.

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>>51283609
There's a lot available if you want to spend a shitton of money getting them 3d printed.

But there's also some garage casters out there. I'm not up to date on that though. But that's probably waaaaay more affordable.

>>51284823
>garage casters
I've looked. There's basically only 3D printers.

Problem is, Trek basically never had a comprehensive miniatures line, nor any line with consistent scale. It would be a hot fucking mess for recasting.

The exceptions are some older not-fully-canon-TOS lines which are impartial anyway.

why did kate mulgrew bully jeri ryan so hard

>>51284914
Competition for lead woman. Also she didn't like them trying the tactic of adding tits to the show to boost ratings after season 3 was kinda garbage throughout, no matter that said tits were attached to a good actress/unexpectedly good character.

>>51285247
why bully jeri over it then and not bitch to the writers/director

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>>51284889
People sculpt their own/recast from 3d printed models though. IIRC Star Ranger forums were the hub of that.

>>51285288
Because actors/actresses frequently have large egos and temperamental personalities and the producers on Voyager were known for not listening without being yelled at a lot. Plus what was she gonna do, get her kicked off the show when arguably she saved it? Or at least saved it enough to stop it getting cancelled.

So probably just because she was a git who had nothing better to resort to than being a git.

>>51285310
>were
Past tense?

>>51285310

>ships (at least relatively) to scale

Fuck, why is WizKids so shit? I would totally buy Attack Wing without even planning on playing it if the models were like the ones in this pic.

The Miranda looks off though, unless they're supposed to have a notably larger saucer than the Constitution.

>>51285362
If they're still around they probably still are, I've just not checked.

>>51284823
>>51284889
>>51285310
>>51285386

https://shop.eaglemoss.com/usa/star-trek-starships

>>51285386
From what I remember about behind the scenes shit, the Miranda was supposed to use standardized parts with the Connie refit, so it should be around that size, but the DS9 CG team made it smaller than that even.
So regardless of what you go with, it shouldn't be bigger than the Connie by any means.
Though I do have a pretty bad memory, so I'm probably wrong.

>>51285483
I own their Akira and bought a friend their Defiant but the scale isn't consistent so they're kinda meh for gaming purposes.

Saying that it is possible to get resin kit models that are in a consistent scale from various suspects but commonly are about 1:1400 or 1/2500 so still kinda chunky, 1:1400 is definitely for display purposes with ships being about 5" long more or less, Though 1:2500 is gameable. AllScaleTrek is the site to check what's available for that.

I've really got to actually commit and buy some fucking starships instead of just collecting information and lusting after them

>>51285483
>""Everything else seems to be a handful of select collectables.""

Eaglemoss?
Diecast prepainted
All scaled to 6"

Collectables.

>>51285489
You're not wrong. It's amazing how inconsistent the scale of stuff in star trek is even when they switched to CGI. Things are constantly resized for dramatic effect.Just see the arguments about how many decks the Defiant has for one long clusterfuck of conflicting size information. Greatest offender is that shot in First Contact where the Enterprise E saves the defiant and looks huge. So huge that it'd actually make the Defiant only about 50 meters long, impossibly small given other references but there it is.

>>51285386
Maybe someday WizKids will loose the rights to Star Trek mini games, and Fantasy Flight will snatch it up. We can dream anyway.

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>>51285906
>Fantasy Flight

FUCK NO

FF's sales model was so bad it got wizkids to change. They're abandoning it in 2017, going to sell cards and models separate for cheaper. Packs of grouped cards to come out, models-only packs, discounted bundle packs. They're also changing the paintjobs, but that's only minor in my opinion when repainted is always better.

Finally be able to buy essential cards without buying a whole new ship, and be able to buy newer cards without having to buy three different models just to field one ship effectively.

We're finally going to see a 2.0 and minor fixes with faction card packs, and be able to buy models without paying $$$ for more fucking chits.

>>51286170
>We're finally going to see a 2.0 and minor fixes with faction card packs, and be able to buy models without paying $$$ for more fucking chits.

Are they going to fix ship point costs so that smaller ships are actually playable?

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who's your favorite enterprise crewman, /tg/? mine has to be kieran macduff. he's very dutiful and worked the hardest to try and wipe the lysians out

>>51277443
Barclay? That you?

The thread is going down! To the escape pods!

>>51285483
So many of those are out of stock. Do they actually restock them, or are they limited runs?

>>51286900
I think they restock them occasionally. The best bet is to subscribe, but then you only get two a month, and it will take forever to get to some of the DS9 stuff.