Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

>>51144267
Why are Vanguard Veterans so expensive? Is there any way to use them without them sucking ass or having to rely on some dumb formation?

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>Orkz are a melee race!
>I2

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In case you miss this 3.

Daemons summoning 270 greater daemons for near free is the standard now.
Eldar having strength D on non-super heavies is the standard now.
Tau having Ap2 ignores cover is the standard now.
Chaos having bikers with t6, fearless, stealth and a rerollable FnP is the standard now.
Space marines and Admech getting free transports and wargear is the standard now.
We're seeing more and more armies with weapons that ignore invulnerable saves and ways to charge out of deepstrike.

Meanwhile
>Orks
>Melee race
>I2
Just squat them already.

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>>51144322

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The Imperium lost Cadia by bad writing

>>51144274
Of course. But I still think that Taudar is tier1 and GSC is tier2 list. Inherently GSC is going to lose. So sadly GSC wont do anything to change the meta at least in that aspect since Taudar can just win them with change of tactics, not list.

Also GSC cant win against Wolfstars and its tough battle against War Convocation.

>>51144346
>6 Culexus assasins
>"bad"

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6E SoB and Inquisition codex are still valid and can be use.

Enjoy 24" fuck you and servo skulls

Also you can have two Celestine for expample but not in this formation.

>>51144346
There has to be some massive potential in this formation that I can't figure out

Some synergy that taking from literally every impeirum book lets you set up

>>51144359
I think six Callidus would be a lot funnier.

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More robots! More gears!

>>51144364
did you miss flock to the front line, somehow?

You can have respawning anything

>>51144346
Do a unit and its dedicated transport count as one unit?

>>51144384
No, just troops. It would had said squads or units otherwise

>>51144400
Yep, enjoy respawning Landraider crusaders on a 5+

>>51144384
>You can have respawning anything
Yeah, but only troops, which is kinda so-so

>>51144400
I doubt it. Footslogging units on your table edge yay. Best use is a Guard platoon.

>>51144422

deepstriking suicide scions!

>>51144415
The problem is, what happens when the unit is kill but the transport isn't. You won't get 2 land raiders.

>>51144424
Respawning conscript blobs is so "Send in the next wave" that it hurts.

Cadia may have fallen, but today is a good day.

>>51144415
I was thinking of Space Marines in Drop Pods enacting STEEL REHN

>>51144351
>tough battle against War Convocation

How so? All those soft slow squishy bodies with no transports to hide in are a wet dream.

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>New formations can give access to special relics
>Cawl himself gives access to them
>Cawl is a legit HQ choice for Cult Mech
>Cult Mech WarConvo slice is just "HQ+troops"

>Conclave Aquisitorius gives Master-crafted that Cawl can't even use
>Holy Requisitioner Dominus and Optional Cohort Cybernetica Dominus get a Sally-craft
>Canticles applies to all formations/units so pretty much higher bonuses similiar to Warconvo
>Max out units for formation-wide Doctrina Imperatives

>Grand Convo gives IWND to... just Knights, Onagers, and Dragoons/Ballistarii
>possibly PoTMS to each if within 6" of an HQ too?
>max out on shit for detachment-wide Canticles

So you're telling War-Convo got possibly stronger, Aquisitorius is basically just Sally-craft over WarConvo and Grand Convo couldn't even take Skit/Cult vehicles if they got added later?

>4/10 it was okay

and by that I mean, I like Cawl but the rest is basically boring.

>>51144436
Today we got a little bit of Chenkov back. It feels good.

>>51144436
it's fluffy as

I want 2 hqs and then like 20 conscript blobs of kriegers

we'll fucking drown them in bodies, game of thrones style

>>51144361
You cant. Celestine in Unique so you can only have one of her per army. Doesnt matter which set of rules she has.

>>51144431
Yah so MSU with transport is the game plan here.

Immolators and Chimeras shit you can throw and be sure it will die.

>>51144431
It was an example, yes both the dudes inside and the transport must die. For this to work.

So MSU is the best pay, but then again 5+

>>51144374
Thats worse than just taking cult/skitarii/knights outside of that formation.

>>51144444
Think of the further buff War Convo will get when we can field trains full of skittles with Cawl attached, giving the Alphas these crazy new relics.

THIS IS THE YEAR OF THE BEEP BOOP

Anyone ever tried to homebrew an entirely new army? Sounds like a fun project even if you would never be able to play them anywhere or have proper miniatures for them.

>>51144456
6E SoB Celestine is different than the FoC Celestine, points, rules. Beside names there different shit

Might never use it. 325 points to have two flying cows is a bit much. Things like Torquemada might not fall in this loop hole.

>>51144444
Warconvo got much better. Cawl isretardly good HQ, especially in convo where he can give whole army 4++ inv/IWD on 3 dice/+3BS. Hard to play in 1500 yes but in 1850 he is nobrainer choice.

>>51144478
>Beside names there different shit
There are examples where there 2 two sets of rules for special character and they state that they cant be used in a single army. And it makes sense.

>>51144482
If it's possible to chuck Cawl in a Cohort Cybernetica that would be truly sickening.

Hell, even giving the normal Dominus and the Datasmiths the new relics push that formation into the Stratosphere.

>>51144494
>If it's possible to chuck Cawl in a Cohort Cybernetica that would be truly sickening.
It is possible. He can replace the formation's Dominus.

>>51144346
>my imperial army can literally slot into this detachment without any changes

free hatred and potentially respawning troops. I'll probably never use it, but I prefer this kind of thing to the detachments that force you into taking certain units to make the most of them (battle company, heyo).

>>51144504
But doesn't the list specify that you need a Dominus? I thought Cawl could only count as a HQ in any Imperial army, not actually replace any named entry.

>>51144489
Really? Would like source, but beside a funny loophole about having two Celestine there is not really a use for it. New Cow is way better than old Cow might say even cheaper for what it does.

>>51144521
Cawl's entry states that he's HQ for Cult Mechanicus and can replace any Dominus in any formation.

Only Celestine/Greyfax can be HQ in any imperial CAD/AD.

>>51144528
Captain whats-his-face of Blood Angels. He has both normal version and Death Company version. They state that both cant be used in same army as its a same character.

greyfax is too basic compared to cawl and celestine, what were they afraid of making all three broken good?

>>51144540
tyco

Remembering tycho is easy, because unlike most characters in 40k he's basically nothing but flaws and ended up dying.

>>51144531
Ah, I think I prefer the real way. Every formation with a Dominus would be SO much better with Cawl. Holy Requisitioner deepstriking down right next to an objective and the nunleashing an ungoldy amount of firepower.

Cohort Cybernetica get better IWND through the new canticles, but only for one turn, otherwise having a normal Dominus with the IWND relic would be better. Might be better to run Cawl in a Skittle blob alongside it.

>>51144346
Basically for 100 points, take Coteaz and give every non vehicle ObSec.

Atleast I will be.

>>51144346
Still not sure, but do dedicated transports get a chance to respawn when killed with this?

I really fucking want respawning LRCs.

>>51144615
Yes only if they are dedicated and both transport and the dude inside die

>>51144615
Here's a better question, do stormravens carrying a squad and a dreadnought count as one unit?
Counts as one unit for deployment

>>51144374

So... Lose scouting and reuse of a canticle, gain split-firing Dunecrawlers.

Weeeeeeeak.

The Cawl specific one seems a bit better for giving the Skitarii Canticles -without- going full War Convocation and getting free wargear everywhere.

>>51144626
>>51144615
They both can respawn. Each one counts as its own troops unit so they don't both have to die.

>>51144571
Also just read the Cohort's rules. Most of them state that they only work with Dominus so they wouldnt work with Cawl.

>>51144582
Coteaz will only give Obsec to Henchmen Warbands.
No
Wait
WHAT
HOLY SHIT.

>>51144626
So for 70 points and a troop slot I can basically have an infinite supply of Hurricane Bolter weapon platforms? Do the Crusaders need to be inside the LRC when it dies or can I just bust a nut inside my enemys lines and flood them out all willy-nilly?

>>51144640
Wouldn't the transport only get to respawn once?

Because it it comes on after respawning, it wont be the units dedicated transport, because they didn't start the game in it.

Might be an FAQ issue.

>>51144639
You only get the Canticles by filling the entire thing up. That's far bigger than a minimum WarConvo.

>>51144314
They're still better than 90% of the other fucking armies in the game suck it up.

>>51144645
Well, it's only a 1/3 chance to respawn. I wouldn't put too much faith on the same chance a guardsman has to not get squished. Also you still need to roll for reserves the next turn.

>>51144673

I said the Cawl specific one. That formation grants Canticles.

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>>51144626
Technically, no.

Dedicated transports count as a separate unit with the same role as the unit they were purchased for.

So your rhinos/chimeras/whatever have the chance of respawning separately from their patron unit on a 5+ when they get destroyed.

Combat squads, similarly, become two individual five-man units, and would roll for regeneration individually from one another.

>>51144688
You mean the one where you take the entire Triumvirate? That's a lot of points

>>51144695

No, a-fucking-gain, the Cawl specific one.

Mandatory: Cawl, a battle maniple, a holy requisitioner, a knight.

Extras: The other cult mech formations. More Knights. A second maniple.

Wait a sec, does Cawl not have the repair ability all tech priests get?

>>51144328
Huh, Cawl is not relentless. not that it matters, but it seems werd that he isnt

>>51144726
the mech hive might give him something

>>51144328

Okay that's bullshit, Cawl is basically a Warhound Titan for 200 points. Harder to kill even.

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Do we have screenshot of new relics from FoC? They can be used by IG?

>>51144726
Seems not. Which kinda makes sense, he's running the show. The boss doesn't get his hands dirty fixing shit, he fixes shit by EXISTING.

>>51144731
It's not like he needs it, he has 1 shooting attack and it's Assault. No need for rules bloat if it isn't required.

>>51144743

I hope so, in that I find overpowered things that don't have basic fluffy abilities even more annoying than overpowered things.

Means they aren't even -trying- to be anything other than a high powered beatstick.

>>51144346
>>51144374

Why does the lists not include sisters of silence and custodes? :(

>>51144745
eh, hes strong but he can be killed by a cheaky force weapon to the techno-balls. also a 5++ as his only invun, even with FNP, you will be shelling him from afar.

i means he fucking nuts, but not warhound level

>>51144746
1. No.
2. No. Kinda. If Celestine/Cawl is part of the same detachment, they can give out new relics to characters who normally wouldnt be able to get them.

>>51144692
That makes sense. Book and FAQ some times make rules fussy if you don't have them at hand.

I'm just happy I have an easy way to add plasma guns to my SoB in the form of IG Veterans.

Mordian Iron Guard and Preatorian, trying to outperform each other sounds nice.

>>51144770
the fact that he doesn't have long range huge blasts is also a noticeable difference

>>51144745

Are you the same guy who was calling Cawl basically a Warhound on dakka?

>>51144769
30k shit. Yes you can use them in 40k but they are mostly a 30k thing. Since the former don't leave Terra and the later are in Black Ship duty

This formation is a rather fluffy formation. Not sure yet if out right broken. But I just see an easy way to bring lots of Glorious T3 models

>>51144784
This is basically it. in CC he has 4 str 6 ap 2 attacks at I1, and his awesome cool gun is only 12"
>>51144762
even then, he is not a greta beatstick

>>51144675
>Vanguard Veterans are better than 90 % of armies
wat

>>51144813
I think the Hive gives him a bunch of S4 AP- attacks at I10. I think it was 2d6 but can't remember.

>>51144328
YESH celestine mah girl you are going to see action again!


Quick question to anyone that might know.

What does "saintly blessing" do?

Or the mech hive on Crawl?

>>51144582
Where is obsec mentioned?

>>51144832
I THINK that it gives AoF to units within 12", but that may have just been someone pulling shit from their arse.

Yeah, dissapointed with the Mechanicus stuff actually, in that basically all I wanted was a combined mech list without having to juggle a bunch of detachments and without the raw brokenness of war convocation.

4 troops means the detachment is no simpler than just allying and using 4 troops anyhow. The detachment bonus is weirdly shit in that it benefits exactly Dunecrawlers and only Dunecrawlers. Would have made more sense if the list had any other tanks to take.

Cawl is a bullet sponge, but most of his other benefits over just taking a Dominus best apply to allied tanks, again. He's actually almost more a guard character than he is an admech character as far as rules go.

Really all that stands out to me as a big improvement is a relic that lets me pick if Skyfire is active or not, has other benefits on turns I'm not using it for Skyfire. Would go great in a robots unit, and plugs the fact that an army made of just the robots in a formation used to have no anti-air capacity.

>>51144827
Ahh thats true, its not bad vs guard i guess, it stops him being tar pitted. vs MEQ its what, 7 attacks, 3's to hit means 5 hits, 2.5 wounds, maybr 1 extra marine dead

>>51144769
You can't choose non-vanilla Space Marines or any of the admech either. SoS and Custodes don't seem to do joint force operations too often.

>>51144346

Oh god, 8th is going to roll all Xenos into a single detachment, isn't it.

Carnifex unit led by an Overlord striding next to Commander Farsight and his Flash Gitz.

>>51144876
Another book another time where my BA stay at the bottom of the ITC

>>51144895
pls no

>>51144328

>wild op characters appeared!

Looks like End Times to me.

>>51144935
i dont see how those are related

>>51144935
Where?
Those are just LR-prised chars that aren't rotting garbage.

>>51144942
Nagash came out in the End times and was an insanely strong character, same with all the buffed versions of characters that were released.

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> Ork player watching the release of Cawl
> Will definitely be an auto include in most imperial lists
> Looking through codex for instant death
> 'Eadwoppas Killchoppa
> Kustom wazbomb can drop 2 tl ID templates at ap2
> Relic weapon gives rending and ID on 6s
> Attack squig rerolls one dice in combat
> Waagh banner nobs give +1 Ws
> Now you have a Warboss hitting on 3's before Cawl even strikes (you obviously take a bike or mega armour so you wont die at I10)
> take fucking 9 wazbom blastajets just because

Rest in motherfucking peace cawl you shitty motherfucker
as if I was gonna shoot your vehicles anyway

>>51144669

No, because it says "Each time a troops unit from this detachment is completely destroyed..." Dedicated transports taken by Troops choices count as Troops themselves, but they're separate units.

>because they didn't start the game in it.

A unit that purchases a Dedicated Transport does not need to start the game inside it. It's just that they are the only unit that CAN start the game inside it.

>>51144942

He's referencing how we got stuff like Nagash, the Glottkin, a buffed up Karl Franz and so on.

The end times books were surprisingly fluff and art dense for something that'd immediately become obsolete and pulled from shelves, probably because some of the fluff guys were desperate to at least -try- to give the setting a proper send off after higher ups pulled the plug.

But when it came to the rules side, they just kinda read "Fuck it, fuck iiiiiitttt, do whatever. It's all getting flushed." Actually trying to play with the end times rules and new super characters would get you a buncha op stuff clusterfucking in the middle of the table.

>>51144346
I'm not going to complian about a way for guard to get back sitnw, but is there by chance a formation for sisters or BT exlusive in the same vain as the Mechanicus one?

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>>51144970
Why kill him when you can loot him?

>>51144970
>implying D3 S10 AP1 shots and 2D6 S4 won't almost kill your boss in the progress

>>51144988
End times magic phases were just straight up insane. Vampires summoning over a thousand points in a game and Elves just straight up destroying units in a single attack.

>>51144988
>>51144969
interesting i didnt pay much attention to fantasy. I still dont see it happening to 40k tho and if it does doesnt matter as i have BA army and i assume there will be space marines in the reboot.

>>51144361
How do orders work? Can AM and MT officers give orders in this formation?
Which units can receive them?
I guess is
AM command ---> AM units
and
MT command---> MT units
only but...

>>51144970
You're playing Orks. You'll get destroyed before you get anywhere near him in close combat.

>>51144995
>love for SoB or BT
>in a BT centric book
Of course not, GW hates both of those armies.

>>51144970
>tfw grav destroyer squad with skyfire + Icarus Onagers.

Good luck Xenos scum, I'm behind 7 Cohort.

>>51145033
Its not like he can shoot him back...

In the book gives some clue of what we will be able to see later, Crimson path expands towards terra, apparently the fourth company of the dark angels, leaves cadia prime and goes to a planet near caliban where they have find fallens. BA & Eldar would be joining forces to fight against demons and tyranids in Baal sector. And something will happen on Mars in future books as it indicates certain interest in Mars by the dark mechanicus and trazyn.

>>51144794
Take coteaz. Then take 6 Culexus Assasins.

Basically you can cherrypick your favorite imperial models into same army

>>51145014
Implying I care about the longevity of my models
> melta overwatch
> ooh im scared, totally not gonna sacrifice some meatshield nobz
> averaging 7 attacks
> 3.5 hits
> 1.1 wounds
bless our only good 2+ armour save

>>51145022
Please no more marine shit, before updating the two and one decade old models. Hell update orks and Nids or just copy paste the 4th edition nid codex with new units. I think it would be better than the shit of today even if overcosted

>>51145022
Yes and they will be called "Thunderstrike Steel Paladins" and be ghosts in SM armour.

>>51145044
i swear if the Warzone baal doesnt give me BA Wulfen equivalents ill just lose my shit.

>>51145048
>implying Cawl will be alone
He'll be hiding behind either a wall of radiation and plasma, phosphor and power fists or grav out the ass.

>>51145037
> implying orks don't have more than enough anti-infantry shooting to kill some shitty destroyers
Oh shit watch out some sand crabs are coming my way, they're totally gonna shoot down all my 5++ planes

>>51144970
>> Kustom wazbomb can drop 2 tl ID templates at ap2

It only IDs on 6's, and you only get 2 templates when you call a WAAAAGH

>Waagh banner nobs give +1 Ws

If you're taking a unit of Nobs then you've already lost.

>>51145042

>BS2

But seriously, our shooting is pretty lackluster. Kustom Mega Kannons can do some work, and Lootas are a great all-round choice, but Ork shooting is always unreliable. And Mork help any vehicle we field going up against Ad Mech or Imperial Grav spam

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>>51145042
>Implying Orks can outshoot the Omnissiah's finest

Beep boop, motherfucker.

>>51145058

You really want vampires showing up in your army? Because that's what you'll be getting, complete with fangs and pallid flesh.

>>51145030
read your AM/MT codexes, man

they specify

>>51145082
>implying that we dont already have that

>>51145063
Each one will 100% kill a bomber, seeing as they have 3 strong weapons that all fire as one with one ignoring cover.

Icarus Onagers are second only to Mek guns in AA potential and even then they outsrip the Mek guns in terms of output, Mek guns just beat them in strength.

>>51145050
Why not just use the weirdboy? He has a force weapon right?

>>51144794
>>51144876

Yea fair point, strange about the non vanillas. BA have really been shafted lately. I remember when they were strong as furk

I just wanna have a cool army to put my golden bananas in with

>>51145065
motherfucker 18 templates is gonna roll some 6's
Also I'd probs use da lukky stikk for the +1 WS, nobz are just a meme at this point

>>51145095
It's not AP2.

has the identity of the red eldar guy been leaked yet? The one in that picture with the templars.

>>51145087
I like the option because I can now play vendettas + commands and tempestus in elite gaining access to FRFSRF, Split Fire and Ignore Cover.
So, I am happy.

I just hope is clear for the people I play with, I have to think about specific color scheme or something.

>>51145096
I still remember the BA Rhino rush from 3rd

Orks are cute thinking they'll get to melee and even if they do. They will not touch Cawl.

I want a better Ork codex it's getting boring tableling Orks with my SoB.

So Skitarii can use Cawl to run a CAD now, right?

>>51145093
> Kill three bombers a turn
Oh no I'll just spam more
> Implying they don't have the ability to shoot back with 18 s8 ap2 templates on a normal turn or 27 on a waaagh
Wazbommas are fuckin good

>>51145014
>2D6 S4

From what? I'm honestly curious.

>>51145110
Some DE faggot, maybe Arhra

>>51145050
i meran if they squat the entire game in the end times it wont matter if we get more marine shit or not.

>>51145123
Mechandrite Hive gives 2d6 S4 Ap - at I10 hits.

>>51145115
He can only be used where a Dominus could be used (Outside the new formations/detachemnts), so Skitarii can't take him on his own. Skittles are still denied their CAD dreams.

>>51145128
As if Arhra would help humies. Arhra is just a smug killing machine.

>>51145136
I doubt they'll pull an Age of Emperor, but I'm sure they'll cut some of the fat regarding the rules bloat. If that is good or bad is yet to be seen.

If they go full AoS with the rules cut Im going to be rather upset.

>>51145121
Okay....so they'll just spam more Onagers. Those bombers aren't exactly cheap and Onagers ARE cheap, even with the Icarus upgrade.

You seem to be basing your strategy on the assumption that you will have 2000 more points than your enemy.

Plus your shit will be coming on from reserves and therefore will be taken out piecemeal.

>>51145155
As if Sisters and BT would co-operate with xenos. Sisters and BT are just zealous killing machines.

Nevertheless it's happening. DEfaggot lets them evacuate into the Webway when Cadia blows.

>>51145149
According to the B&C leaks, all Triumvirate characters can be used as HQ for any army of the imperium and Skitarii are one of those, are they not?

>>51145167
Sisters and BT have a leash. Arhra has no boss.

>>51145113
I want a better opponent.
It's getting boring tableling GSC, Necrons, SW and Daemons with my Orks.

Hell the Ultramarine podspammer won't even show up for games because he doesn't know how to hard counter a varied army with no set meta.

>>51145167
Hopefully he is a corsair charitable DE is wrong.

>>51145128
Is not a dark eldar, is sylandi veilwalker a harlequin shadowseer disguised. Provides a way of escape to the imperial ones in the planets of cadian sector through the portals to the webway, although his intentions are not very clear, and the book ends at that point.

>>51145176
All Eldar fear Slaanesh and would do a lot to avoid being fucked metaphorically and literally by being in the Eye and surrounded by Chaos. Dark Eldar would do it to save their own skins especially with Khaine's Gate counting down.

>>51145191
Corsairs are just as self-centered as DE.

>>51145196
Fluff says Trazyn releases a DE guy from his vaults.

>>51145181
I doubt that, but we have our local Necron player that tryies to waacfag hard. Me with SoB and a friend with Orks compite to see who can table him faster. Right now I have the record of turn 4, turn 3 or lower seems impossible with SoB at least.

>>51145218
>Corsairs are just as self-centered as DE.
Hell corsairs are even worse, they even have a special rule for it.

what's the cheapest access to allied grav ?

>>51144847
On Coteaz's rules:
>Lord of Formosa: If a Detachment includes Inquisitor Coteaz, all non-vehicle units in the same Detachment have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the objective marker, unless the enemy unit also has the Objective Secured special rule.

>>51145236
Depends how much you want it and in what platforms.

>>51145181
As an Ork player my favourite release has to be GSC, a way to guarantee that most ork builds can actually make it into combat, and don't need to focus on ap2 or anti vehicle shooting
> tfw no GSCunt powergamers will fight me

>>51145241
Which copy of his rules is this, Inquisition or IA?

>>51145241
So it does nothing in this edition

>>51145246
GSC would massacre orks. Every single 8pts acolyte would kill 1 Ork on charge. With normal buffs (Hatred, Furious Charge) this changes to 2 dead orks per acolyte. So 5 acolytes would kill 10 orks.

You can probably see how well the melees would go for the orks.

>>51145256
>>51145258
That rule is from Imperial Agents, not Inquisition. So it works and would give the whole detachment Obsec.

>>51145270
Also 6E SoB and Inquisition codex are valid in case you didn't read the images.

They make reference to IA, AS and I the even mention the old Acolyte squad. 10 point psykers and servo skulls are still valid and confirmed

>>51145218
I'm pretty sure all elves can become a clown not just CWE

>>51145261
Alright, but if a group of boyz charge the acolytes, who would win then?

>>51145301
The Acolytes by having a non shit armour save.

Ork need a new codex so they don't have to face mentally retardad players in order to win

>>51144970
I took the head whoppa on my boss just for fun and he's actually building quite a track record with it.

So far he's beheaded a wolf lord, two riptides, a carnifex, a terminator lord and a hive tyrant.

>>51145258
Can't read huh?

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>>51145218
The only renowned eldar in the book is certainly sylandri, this guy may be right

>>51145261
> implying orks dont have any other melee units or any units designed specifically to be used at close range

>>51145328
Is it reliable or is it more of an orky thing
Fucking props for k

>>51145364
Killing a termie lord, shit usually massacres me

>>51145343
>sylandi veilwalker
Harlequin

Probably the most boring eldar there are. Tricky bastards should dress like skittles so I know not to care.

>>51144452
But that's retarded, the Cadia Gate is the only safe and reliable way in and out of the Eye. Cadia falls, the Gate shuts, and he either cuts himself off in realspace or waits a couple millenia for the Eye to reach Terra. Abaddon isn't exactly the patient type.

Why do people think he will be locked inside the Eye? The traitor legions are ahead of Eye burning worlds and slaughtering all before them under the gaze of the Eye. This feeds the Eye and cause it to grow in the direction of the slaughter. The traitors will be reinforced by the daemons spilling from the Eye.

It won't take long for the overfed Eye to reach Terra.

>>51145364
Hits at i4, on a 6 to wound most shit goes away with AP2 autowound ID.

Only have one kill with mine though.

>>51145391
>the Cadia Gate is the only safe and reliable way in and out of the Eye
For those not aligned with Chaos. Chaos itself doesn't give a shit.

>>51145364
Orky thing, it has rending and ID on 6s so they pick a fight with your Warboss only for him to get lucky and roll that magic 6.

>>51145404
Yeah but like does it warrant not taking the lucky stick

Also has anyone tried the choppa of ragnarok

>>51145391
Messed up mu post. The first line suppose to be green text.

>>51145343
Where is Logan and Ragnar? They were suppose to be on Cadia.

Dark Angels too.

>>51144314
Give them all power weapons, and then give them the Living Saint to lead them.

>>51145245
400-500pts max. deepstriking/drop pod

Where is Greyfax supposed to be used? She's certainly good for her point cost but I don't see which roles she would fill, especially if there's no psyker on the field.

>>51145407
>Chaos itself doesn't give a shit.
kinda does, that's why 12/13 crusades go through it

>>51145423
Naw, it's a stylistic choice, or as a weapon for a secondary throwaway bikerboss.

Never tried the other one, too much ramp up before it's worth it IMO.

>>51144507
But you need at least two factions. So take an Inquisitor or assassine.

At the end of the book the eye expands more and more and devours planets, revealing the beginning of crimson path to terra. It is the main reason why the forces of imperium are forced to flee to the portals of the webway opens by sylandri, not there time to withdraw and escape otherwise.

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New basic Chaos Marine plastic kit when?

>>51145448
All my units are throwaway units
I might try to get it to work with the ghaz star formation, WS7/8 warbosses are too good to pass up
I've also wanted to use that formation for ages if Im honest
> inb4 I2

>>51145436
The fourth company of the dark angels leaves cadia in search of fallen near caliban leaving their allies to their luck.

Logan and Ragnar, they are not in cadia.

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Did i bring to many cultists? Yes i know the power weapons are useless i just didnt know what to do with the rest of the points

>>51145482
Tried the formation, ghazband is tough and killy but just too pricey and slow to catch anything that doesn't' want to be.

>>51145139

Neat, thanks.

Do you know by chance what Celestine's "saintly blessings" do aswell?

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A QUESTION. Because I'm unsure of how the rules factor into this. My friend bought a Culexus assassin because he wanted something to counter my extremely psyker heavy thousand sons army, and we ran into something odd. Supposedly the Culexus assassin causes warp charges to harness on a 6+, but Magnus in the rehati war sect causes warp charges to be harnessed on a 3+, so which is it? And the Tzeentchian Warp storm also has a roll which causes warp charges to be harnessed on a 3+, so what are warp charges harnessed on?

>>51145445
I thought Chaos warfleets didn't need a Gellar Field. At least Word Bearers in the Heresy didn't.

part I
Ok, just finished reading the fluff and WOW. I think this is really it, BIG THINGS are happening. Obviously SPOILERS AHOY. Long posts incoming too lol.

Ok, so the book starts off with probably the coolest thing I've read in 40k - some prose about a Dreamer Awakening in a World That Is Not A World, and her wearily being called back to War. It's probably the coolest thing I've read about Celestine, and it doesn't even mention her by name smile.png

The first chapter of the book picks up immediately following the first wave of the assault on Cadia. It is beaten back by the genius of Creed (after he assumes command following the treacherous slaughter of the existing Cadian High Command). He sets about rebuilding the shattered defences for the second wave he knows is incoming - Abaddon will make a point of pride to make Cadia fall. Making up the shattered defences are:
Creed and the Cadian 8th, holding the last major fortress on Cadia - Kasr Kraf
Black Templars of the Cruxis Crusade, led by Marshal Marius Amalrich. They are standing on the southern defences of Kasr Kraf
Dark Angels 4th Company, led by Company Master Korahael (they are making their stand at the wreckage of their fallen Strike Cruiser to the North of Kasr Kraf, its guns still operational)
Space Wolves of the Ironwolves Great Company, led by Wolf Lord Orven Highfell. They are initially garrisoning a ruined Kasr between the Dark Angel Strike Cruiser and Kasr Kraf, but you know Space Wolves and standing still...
Space Wolves of the Firehowlers Great Company, led by Sven Bloodhowl. They have the only remaining Imperial Ship still under power in orbit, the Battle Barge Firemane's Fang
Knights of House Raven, led by Baroness Vardus
Battle Sisters of the Order of Our Martyred Lady, led by the twin sister Canonesses Eleanor and Genevieve. They are holding the Shrine of Saint Morrican across the valley from Kasr Kraf
Numerous other Cadian regiments and shattered Space Marine Chapters

>>51145541
part II

Things look pretty grim when a scout ship reports that the Black Fleet of Abaddon is inbound to finish of Cadia, with a Blackstone Fortress called the Will of Eternity at its heart. It has the power to destroy a planet with a single shot, but the Imperium had prepared a special defence for it. Unfortunately the first assault left it it ruins - Cadia is doomed. Sven Bloodhowl and the Firehowlers, along with a host of Battle Brothers from shattered Chapters and even alongside some Cadian regiments, gather on the Firemane's Fang to lead a desperate assault on the Will of Eternity to delay it before it reaches Cadia ("you're telling me we're some kind of Suicide Squad?") whilst the Mechanicum frantically try to repair the anti-planet killer shields. The battle-cry goes up amongst the Cadian Defenders - "Cadia Stands!"
Elsewhere! Belasirus Cawl has been having some shady conversations with a Harlequin Shadowseer. She tells him to check out some backwater planet, long since abandoned by the Imperium in after the 4th Black Crusade swept by it in M34. On it, Cawl discovers evidence of massive orbital bombardments. Apparently the 4th Black Crusade didn't randomly sweep by this planet - Abaddon had been trying to destroy something on it. Fighting of some random Orks looking for a fight, Cawl discover something amazing - this planet has Pylons on it, just like the Cadian Pylons and it seems Abaddon was trying to destroy them! The Shadowseer tells him to go to Cadia.

>>51145541
>>51145545
part III

Elsewhere! Trazyn the Infinite is chilling in Solemnance when one of his treasures, the Bell of Saint Gerstahl, suddenly starts ringing and causing all sorts of havoc on each chime. After the bell kills 5 of his bodies, causes Solemance to send all his warriors into stasis-sleep, destroys a number of his priceless artefacts it stops after the 13th Chime. Trazyn is all wth? and goes to the Celstial Orrery (a perfect reflection of the galaxy) to try and figure out whats going on. He notices a lot of 'crimson stain' pulsing in intricate webs out of one place in particular. The Necrons have a ton of data on the place, but Trazyn deliberately ignores that. The Imperium calls it Cadia. Trazyn wonders whether he might try being the Saviour of the Galaxy for once. At the very least, there should be something shiny to steal on Cadia.

>>51145540
>I thought Chaos warfleets didn't need a Gellar Field.
The eye of terror is a giant warp storm, and it fucks with travel even if you have a gellar field. The gellar field is just so your ship doesn't get swarmed by warp creatures and shit while travelling.

Chaos needing to go through the cadian gate is WHY the entire sector is so heavily fortified. It's also why the gothic war was such a surprise.

>>51145541
>>51145545
>>51145551
part IV

Elsewhere! Specifically, the orbit of Terra!! Even more specifically, aboard the Phalanx!!! Be'lakor has decided to trump Abaddon and launch an attack directly at Terra - no stuffing around at Cadia for him. With the help of the Iron Warriors Warsmith Shon'tu, he creates a warp rift right in the middle of the Phalanx, with the intent to board and capture it and turn it against Terra. On board are... not much. Most of the Imperial Fists are elsewhere. All that remains to repel the chaos forces are the newly reconstituted 3rd Company, led by Captain Tor Garadon (ironically stationed there because they are inexperienced) and 30odd marines from the 1st Company. They are massively outnumbered by the combined Demon and Iron Warrior assault, are getting overrun and are losing control of the Phalanx to machine viruses from the Iron Warriors. In desperation, Garadon turns the guns of the Phalanx on itself in order to 'cut away the disease like a chirurgeon'. It costs the Phalanx a full 10th of its mass, but it stops the machine virus from taking hold and also takes out most of the Iron Warriors. As soon as control is back, Garadon orders a blind jump into the Warp in order to remove the potential for the Phalanx to be turned against Terra. Be'lakor is kinda pissed his plan has basically failed, but since they are now in the warp all his Demon forces are powered up and at least they can destroy the Phalanx. So he gets cocky and throws his Demons carelessly into the fray, victory is inevitable. At least it was inevitable until the Legion of the Dammed turn up to kick his arse. Better luck next time Be'lakor! (should have cast Invisibility). Curiously, the Legion of the Dammed have stuck around though, and Garadon has no idea why. He makes to return to Mars for urgent repairs, however a distress call is picked up - Cadia is real trouble.

>>51145541
>>51145545
>>51145551
>>51145555
part V

Curiously, the Legion of the Dammed have stuck around though, and Garadon has no idea why. He makes to return to Mars for urgent repairs, however a distress call is picked up - Cadia is real trouble. Garadon decides that the defence of Cadia is the most important, so he turns around and makes for Cadia. The Legion of the Dammed Sergeant gives him a ghostly bro-nod.

Back on Cadia! The Imperial defenders look on with horror as the Will of Eternity appears in orbit. The Mechiancum are no-where near finished repairs to the shields. The Will of Eternity fires..... and the beam is stopped in the clouds! Huzzah! It worked! But how?!?! Says the Magos in charge, looking around at all the slain tech-priests at the shield generator. Looking closer he notices all sorts of filthy Xenos technology integrated into the Mechanicus technology..........

Oh well, time for a conventional assault then. The Black Fleet commences orbital Bombardment of the defences, Void Shield generators straining, Drop Pods and Landing Craft coming down the thousands etc. Long story short, lots of fighting and pew pew pew. Battle Sisters kick arse. Defenders are forced back, traitor Titans of Legio Vulcanam are advancing (despite a Valkyrie kamikaze into the lead Warlord Titan, A-Wing vs Super Star Destroyer style). The Demon Prince Urkanthos, Abaddons second in command, drops in to lead the final assault. Final Gate goes down, Urkanthos shrugs off everything the Cadians can throw at him as heads straight for the shield generator protecting against the Planet Killer only to find the Battle Sisters in his way.

>>51145541
>>51145545
>>51145551
>>51145555
>>51145566
part VI

The twin Cannoness Genevieve and Eleanor duel with him, but he kills them both (not before Genevieve headbutts him right between the eyes as her dying act of defiance though! Fkn Badass! And Eleanor stick her sword right through his chest, doing the only real wound to him). Urkanthos proceeds down to destroy the shield generator. A Chaos Baneblade is wrecking havoc amongst the Cadians, and the Black Templars rally to try and stop it and just as it swings its guns around to blow them away it suddenly freezes... and turns around and starts shooting the Chaos Forces... no-one notices a sneaky Necron Lord lurking about.... Creed uses the distraction as a last ditch effort to run his forces over to protect the shield generator, but upon seeing the dead Battle Sisters who tried to stop the Demon Prince he knows that Cadia is lost. So he goes to order a rally in one last stand, when he notices his officers holding devotional icons and uttering "The Emperor Protects". Not really one for faith, he gets kinda angry at this, but as he turns he can't help a "Well I'll be dammed"

Saint Celestine had answered their prayers.

>>51145502
> GSC
We're in luck, boys

>>51145553
So why the hell would Abbadon want to destroy the Pylons? Wouldn't that fuck up his only way out of the Eye?

>>51145524
Gives a friendliy unit a buff depending on its type (Zealot for HQs until end of turn, FNP 6+ / +1 for Troops etc.) with each effect being usable once per game.

>>51145583
Fucked if I know. They made a point of mentioning he specifically doesn't want to blow up the pylons in older fluff (because having a stable route out of the eye is a good thing), but now their destruction is his primary goal because of reasons.

>>51145583
Because the guy known for patience (yah right) wants to expand the eye to terra in the new fluff.

Yes is that stupid.

>>51145555
>With the help of the Iron Warriors Warsmith Shon'tu, he creates a warp rift right in the middle of the Phalanx,

I'm going to assume that Emps allowed him to do so so he could watch Bel's inevitable failure.

>>51145572
Wait, wasn't 'making an enemy vehicle shoot its allies' Anrakyr's ability, not Trazyn's?

>>51145477
tell me about it. B@C and BoP makes the idea of buying that shitty kit a joke

>>51145583
Nobody knew how pylons worked only assumptions and apparently its function was that the eye did not expand.

fluff is posted in bolter & chainsword forum

>>51145583
Abaddon is going to bring the Eye of Terror to Terra.

>>51145526
Culexus wins, I think there was a thing on the FAQ regarding how Culexus effects the Librarius Concave and the Culexus came out on top.

He's basically forcing your Psykers to "Snapshot"

It sucks that Magnus can basically be shut down by it but remember that he can just stay out of the "Fuck yo gay space magic" bubble

>>51145261
Against meganobz they would do 3 wounds.

If the acolyte squad had saw with them then they would do 2,3 wounds and then 2 instakilling ones.

>>51145498
Minimum cultists are plenty.
Lose the plasma pistol and the power weapons and get more plasma guns for the chosen.

>>51145526
If I were you and I'd house rule those into +/- bonuses. The Culexus drops the roll by -2 whilst Magnus and the Warp Storm increase it by +1.

>>51145498
The bikes aren't really taken termicide as they die before they get across the board, the very first wound crippling it's special weapons capabilities

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>>51145551
I seriously reading a Discworld Death vibe from Trazyn and I love it.

Makes me wanna do something with necrons.

>play BT and AdMech
>buy Triumvirate
>now need to learn how Psykers work
Give me a basic summary please /tg/. I was able to get through with only knowing that my DtW +1 is good for the last year.

>>51145661
Because that totally would not backfire and transform every single planet in two segmentums into a Daemon World?

Holy shit GW.

>>51145668
*ahem*
Kustom stompa with 2 deffkanonns, 2 supa gatlers and a belly gun

>>51145612
Are you acusing that trustworthly little guy of stealing something that dosen't belong to him?

>>51145700
>Because that totally would not backfire

Not for the Chaos forces.
The Imperium will have a very hard time of mounting a counter assault.

>>51145700
WELCOME TO THE AGE OF EMPEROR!!!!

>>51145704
Trollzyn probably just stole his body and then used his power, like an imperial could tell the difference

continuation of the fluff in Bolter & chainsowrd forum

soz It becomes very hard to copy it here

Why shouldn't all skimmers not have Move Through Cover?

>>51145694
You roll a D6 in your Psychic phase, add the total number of mastery levels your psykers have to that number.

You now have that many dice to spend on trying to get powers. Generally you manifest on a 4+ so a power that costs 2 warp charges would require you to roll 2 4+ results.

Double 6s is an auto pass no matter the cost of the power but you get a perils, double 1s is an auto perils.

>>51145709
>not for the chaos forces
Have fun re-supplying in a former Agri-World in which all the plant life is now made of liquid fire.

>>51145526
>Supposedly the Culexus assassin causes warp charges to harness on a 6+, but Magnus in the rehati war sect causes warp charges to be harnessed on a 3+, so which is it?
Culexus' rules override the war sects bonuses.

>>51145751
how does that affect wargear by the way, because magnus' crown has him harness on 2+

>>51145709
That is exactly the opposite of what Abaddon wants. He's all for "Dark Imperium" not "Daemons an' shit everywhere yo"

So it would definitely backfire for him to expand the eye too much, at least without a way to shrink it back down again.

>>51145759
Maybe he has a sneak trick up his sleave?

>>51145745
>Double 6s is an auto pass no matter the cost of the power but you get a perils, double 1s is an auto perils.
Are you being retarded on purpose? Neither of those things is true.
Rolling 2 or more 6s when trying to manifest will cause Perils regardless of whether you pass or fail, it doesn't auto-pass the power. 2 or more 1s doesn't do anything.

>>51145694
You're better off reading your rulebook dude. /tg/ doesn't know shit.

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>>51145668
How do GSC do against a MC army
asking for an anon

Why didn't the Emperor use genetic engineering to make every newborn have the Pariah gene? It would easily solve the Chaos/Warp problem by making everyone a blank.

>>51145758
Unless it's something that says "bearer always harnesses on a 2+", then the culexus makes them only harness on a 6+

>>51145758
Same dealio, it seems that reductions trump bonuses.

Culexus doesn't give a fuck what powers you have or what god favours you, he can and will nom nom nom all your magic.

Khorne probably rubs his bone to the thought of Culexus assassins.

>>51145778
Quite well actually, with massed Rending and access to ID.

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>>51145789
He's probably got his own special section of the skull throne for all the misshapen culexus and eversor skulls.

>>51145770
Fuck, I'm thinking of Fantasy aren't I?

>>51145750
>Have fun re-supplying in a former Agri-World in which all the plant life is now made of liquid fire.

The Traitor Legions already live in the Eye, they clearly have their own methods for feeding themselves.
Fucking up Imperial Worlds once again is bad for the Imperials, but not the Traitors.

>>51145759
>So it would definitely backfire for him to expand the eye too much

Crimson Path and Dark Imperium were both Black Crusade supplement, so obviously he'll have a trick or plan.

>>51145671
Okay done. rules question tho, do i roll for both the alpha legion cultist rule and the lost and damned rule when i lose a cultist blob and if so if i roll 2 4+ do i get an additional squad or just the one

>>51145797
That or classic 40k where a double 6 always went off but with Perils and a double 1 always failed, with Perils.

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>>51145801
forgot image

>>51145745
>Double 6s is an auto pass no matter the cost of the power but you get a perils, double 1s is an auto perils.
That's WHFB. And a double ones wasn't auto-mishap, it was power doesn't cast and wizard can't cast for rest of the magic phase

Anyone have that 120 ork shoota boy meme list handy, considering building it because I now have access to cheap boyz
Would that necron walker thing buff ork bs?

>>51145800
>The Traitor Legions already live in the Eye, they clearly have their own methods for feeding themselves.
They raid the Imperium for supplies. Furthermore, they only have control of a few Daemon Worlds specifically assigned to them by the Gods.

Everywhere else is either an inhospitable shithole, an eternal battleground for Daemons, or both.

>>51145783
Because he wanted the human race to psychically awaken. At least that's a possible explanation.

>>51145831
Nah it's just Crons.

>>51145834
>They raid the Imperium for supplies.

Some do, but leaving the Eye was not easy so they have other ways.

>>51145703
If GSC army would be a variant that had Saws they would rape your stompa with half the cost.

Also First Claw with Hatred would do ~8 hull points of damage in charge. With buff of Rage and +1S, they would do ~16 points of damage and wreck it.

GSC are scary in melee.

>>51145783
>why didn't the emperor make it so that everyone gave him the psychic equivalent of him getting kicked in the balls really hard every second

>>51145855
Small fleets can get out undetected. And as said before they have a few Daemon World under their control.

A Council of War is held, and Cawl outlines his discoveries about the Pylons and Abaddons intentions with them - it seems the Pylons are literally holding back the flood of the Immaterium into the galaxy. This explains the rising darkness of the last 10,000 years, and the increasing prevalence of warp storms - as Abaddon's Black Crusades have ran on the number of Pylons they've destroyed as gone up and the Warp leaks faster into realspace. Turns out Abaddon's Black Crusades haven't been failures after all, just a series of plays in a very, very long game!

>>51145873
If he really cared about mankind that much he would've done it anyway. But you can't expect much from literal space Stalin.

>>51145892
Not really. Abaddon rules the empire of the Eye which has tons of worlds and forgeworlds.

Hec, we are given insight how people live on daemon worlds in the "Daemon World" novel. It's not so bad.

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>>51144374
If Noospheric Choir applied all the time, this may be passable, but as it is, this is just a downgrade from the standard admech detachments allied together...

>>51145892
>Small fleets can get out undetected

Yes, but some small fleets occasionally getting by would not be enough to provide for the inhabitants of the Eye, even if those fleets decided to feed everyone else for some reason.

>>51145855
Personally it makes no sense, unless they some how have agri-world inside the eye for their marine and human populations. They are going to ride Imperium planets.

Expanding the Eye is stupid no matter the way you think of it. Unless the Chaos god have full control over Abaddon which makes him now not only Armless the Harmless but Abaddon the Slave Bitch of chaos.

GW simply can't make Abaddon into a good character.

TL:DR expanding the eye only makes sense if it's a chaos god plan and abanddon is thier bitch

>>51145783
The pariahs gene isn't really breedable, sometimes it on mostly it's not.

>>51145893
>Turns out Abaddon's Black Crusades haven't been failures after all, just a series of plays in a very, very long game!
I thought the last "the black crusades went just as planned guys! Please take abby the armless seriously" was bad, but this is ridiculous.
And hell, of the pylons are so common, why doesn't Trazyn go grab his top Cryptek from Solemance, bring him to mars, introduce him to the ad mech and say "help these guys make new pylons, I'm going to go """acquire"""" the void dragon" and then make an STC for pylons and pump them out from some forgeworld?

>>51145946
SAYS WHO?

>>51145925
>Not really. Abaddon rules the empire of the Eye which has tons of worlds and forgeworlds
There is no Empire in the eye AFAIK. There are a bunch of Daemon Worlds, the few hospitable ones constantly disputed by the Legions, who fight each other until a Black Crusade is announced.

>Hec, we are given insight how people live on daemon worlds in the "Daemon World" novel. It's not so bad.
Please elaborate.

Down in the tunnels, the Cadians and the remaining Skitarri desperately try to hold Abaddon back. Cawl is furiously trying to finish his work on the Pylons, and Trazyn is lurking about watching with interest. He can see that the Abaddon is going to overrun them quickly, and he umms and ahhs about whether to be a Saviour or just steal something and knick off. Deciding that there's probably better loot the longer he stays at the battle, he decides to help out throws out a tesseract labyrinth. What's in the labyrinth? Why just a cheeky collection of Imperial forces Trazyn's collected over the millennia is all! It pops out right in front of Abaddon's forces - suddenly there is a just post-Heresy era Ultramarine force in his face (Contemptor Dreadnaughts and all), a regiment of Vostroyan, snipers from the long dead Tanith, Salamanders though lost during the Klovian disaster and even a Custode! Everyone is confused as hell, but the immediate facts are pretty clear - they are Imperials and there are Chaos baddies in front of them! Attack! One other force came out of the tesseract too.. Inquisitor Katarinya Greyfax of the Ordo Hereticus and her bodyguard. Not one to act rashly, for rashness leads to Heresy, she surveys the battlefield..

>>51145963
There is one. In Talon of Horus they talk about it a bit.

>Please elaborate.

The novel is in links above. Basically on a daemon world, human tribes and mutants have lived thousands of years living through the four way daemonic battles on the planet. There are cities there and stuff.

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>>51145477
Plastic plague and noise marines when?

>>51145944
>They are going to ride Imperium planets.

But they don't.
People live inside the Eye.
Just accept that they have their own methods for dealing with shit.

>Expanding the Eye is stupid no matter the way you think of it.

I think it's a good plan for people not concerned with warp pollution.
You can bring Legions of daemons with you and deny the Imperium recovering ground.

>>51145983
i actually really like this shit

>>51145950
The Void Dragon created the Pylons and their know-how was probably lost when he was sharded.

>>51145929
Even without noospheric choir, Skitarii will still have their imperatives, Cultmech will still have their own canticles.

This is just a way to get all your admech stuff (including enginseers and combat servitors) without having to resort to 3-4 separate detachments. And you get IWND/machine spirit knights and onagers.

>>51145983
It's Deus Ex Machina after Deus Ex Machina.

Holy shit.

>>51146019
Yeah. It seems like a great way to flexibly run ad mech together. Fill the HQ slots with the cult HQ and enginseer, fulfill troops with Skitarii, and load up the list with whatever else.

You could even toss in some IG or SM tanks and vehicles.

>>51146005
Basically Chaos Space Marines are the Gods bitches.

That is the only way to justify the eye expanding.

Chaos SM are even more lame now

>>51146019
>This is just a way to get all your admech stuff (including enginseers and combat servitors) without having to resort to 3-4 separate detachments.
Which means nothing. It doesn't offer any advantage by having them in the same detachment over taking a Skitarii Maniple and Battle Congregation separately, and in fact you LOSE all the bonuses the Skitarii normally get, as well as the re-use of a Canticle from the Congregation, for only IWND on a unit that can already get that through a piece of wargear which doubles as a S10 AP 1 melee weapon and PotMS which is, correct me if I'm wrong, almost entirely useless on Skitarii vehicles.

>>51146051
At least Black Legion are.

>>51146051
>That is the only way to justify the eye expanding.

No pylons + weakened walls of reality justifies the Eye expanding.

>>51146051
>implying you wouldn't want to spread the gift of Nurgle

>>51146049
>Fill the HQ slots with the cult HQ and enginseer, fulfill troops with Skitarii, and load up the list with whatever else.
Unless you're trying to avoid taking Kataphrons for some reason, this is idiotic. The Skitarii Maniple is already one of the most flexible, taxless Codex Detachment in the fucking game - you unlock it with two 5-man Skit squads.

>You could even toss in some IG or SM tanks and vehicles.
Not in that Detachment you can't.

>>51146078
I'm pretty sure he was talking about the reason Abigail wanted to expand the Eye.

>>51146073
Bullshit. When the power of the Chaos Gods left them, the Black Legion didn't give a damn. Their murderborner for the Imperium only grew harder.

Abaddon is said to never had been subservient to the Chaos Gods despite being their champ. He wa strong even without them.

>>51146078
No no you miss the point where they reckton Abaddon wanting to conquer Cadia to just wanting it destroy to expand the eye.

Abaddon wanting to expand the eye makes him chaos bitch. GW made a bad character into an even more lame one

>>51146094
So his forces wouldn't be stuck in a prolonged destructive stalemate with the Imperium and other players in the galaxy? It's a good plan. There will be no stalemate. Just a deathmarch to Terra.

So that anon is exceptionally dumb.

Anons, what should I buy next for my KdK army? I have my two CSM squads, but I'm not sure what to get next. Currently have $70.

This is my list of what I want in my army when it's at 1500.
>Daemon Prince
>15 Flesh Hounds
>3 Maulerfiends
>2 Chaos Rhinos

>>51146088
>worshiping a God that infects you with agonizing shit and only heals you if you accept to become his living slave and call him your daddy
Top cuck.

>>51146100
>the Imperium draws more heavily on the power of chaos than chaos does.
Really made me think...

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>>51146100
>Abaddon is said to never had been subservient

>>51146126
Better than an angry guy, gay guy or guy from Princess Bride

>>51146100
>>51146121
And yet he wants to expand the Eye which would only fuck him over while benefitting Gods.

Literally Horus 2.0. The only guy who ever got close to building a symbyotic relationship with Chaos was Lorgar.

>>51146004
>Implying there will be new Slaanesh anything ever for any GW game.

>>51146101
Not really. Nothing changed really. Abaddon is using the Chaos Gods as tool as he always had. Once he gets what he wants he will ditch them and create his Dark Imperium.

Previous he wanted to breach the Eye and let Chaos have a clear opening to invade Imperial space. Now it's surfing the Eye towards Terra. Nothing really changed. His plan was always unleashing the full might of Chaos in the Imperium. nowadays his plan is more grand.


Like I just said you are exceptionally dumb. You raising nonsensical stuff.

>>51146149
>which would only fuck him over

Getting to Terra does not fuck him over.

>>51146121
It is short sighted one. Again expanding the eye to infect real space is a chaos god plan.

Abaddon and his pride shouldn't want a galaxy of eye of terror that would mean he would be a slave to the chaos god.

That is the entire point. Want to expand the eye is stupid if it is Abaddon plan. If it is chaos plan sure go ahead

>>51146124
Get the prince.

Prince and two chaos marine squads make a CAD which is a good starting point.

>>51146069
>and PotMS which is, correct me if I'm wrong, almost entirely useless on Skitarii vehicles.
Nnnot entirely. You want onagers in units for durability, and PotMS gives you the option of spreading your heavy weapon shots around. Not amazingly groundbreaking, but handy.

And yeah, multiple small detachments/formations will be better than any of these double force-org detachments. These aren't for the people who do that.

>>51146149
Not really, man. I am sick of not reading the fluff. Abaddon saw the future where the Eye covers the whole galaxy once Terra falls. He is factored this in his plan.

Abaddon doesn't want the Chaos Gods to win. So he has a last moment move stored to get rid of the Chaos Gods.

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Rate my Chaos Space Marine colour scheme
Intended colour is Zamesi Desert over Steel Legion Drab/XV88, washed with Agrax.
I'd add markings in Red.

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>>51146144
>not collecting the skulls of the mightiest enemies in glorious melee combat all while getting rewarded for it by the almighty Lord of Battles
Nurgle is a pimp. Khorne is a REAL father.

>>51146186
Abaddon is a Chaos bitch. Only Lorgar manage to use chaos without turning into a bitch like Horus did. Abaddon is Horus 2 but more useless

>>51146177
>and PotMS gives you the option of spreading your heavy weapon shots around. Not amazingly groundbreaking, but handy.
Oh, so it can function as a better Split Fire in effect? That's actually not bad.

I suppose if, for some reason, you really want to run an army of just tons of Onagers and Knights, with Enginseer HQs and cheap Servitor Troops, this will let you do that.

But if you want actual Skitarii infantry or a real Cult Mech force, these new options are almost totally worthless. The only reason to stick all your AdMech guys into one Detachment is if you can spread the Canticles to the Skitarii, and War Convo still does that the best with the least restrictions.

>>51146165
The Chaos Gods plan is to dissolve the galaxy into a sea of pure warp. Ending all life, space, and time.

The Eye of Terror isn't the Warp. It's a place where real space and the Warp coexist at various degrees. Life, space, and time exist there. It's a place that a mortal man like Abaddon can conquer and rule.

>>51146177

Having a 4++ on a Icarus Dunecrawler hiding in two ground target Dunecrawlers might be nice, but it's not 6 tax units which coulda been taken elsewhere and gotten benefits nice.

Especially since, if you're adverse to running a solo icarus Dunecrawler, you can just give a Datasmith a relic which lets him turn on Skyfire how.

>>51146226
Letting chaos gods win. This is not stupid because?

>>51146222
>trips
checked

But seriously, can you blame him?
The chaos gods are just so dia-arm-ing

>>51146187
Unless there's a lot of markings it might get rather dull.

>>51146226
>The Chaos Gods plan is to dissolve the galaxy into a sea of pure warp. Ending all life, space, and time.
Is that some shitty new fluff? Why wold they want to destroy the very thing that sustains them in the first place?

>>51146222
Not, Abaddon doesn't serve the Chaos Gods.

Lorgar was always a bitch for Chaos seeking always to please the gods and putting them above himself and his legion. He has no other ambition other than licking the boots of the gods for all eternally. His status as daemon prince means he is an eternal slave to them.

You got things in reverse because like I said you are uniquely dumb.

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I'm trying to build a 1k army without any Riptides, Stormsurges, or Broadsides for some of my first games online. Figure there's not much room for heavy units at 1k, so I'm hoping 3 BS5 Hammerheads and 3 DS8s are enough for anti-armor. The 12-model squad is for the Fireblade.

Should I drop something for more anti-armor options? Am I missing some important upgrades? Sorry for posting yet another one of these.

>>51146173
Good point. My only problem is I'm sort of nervous thinking about painting/building him, since he'll be more detailed and have all the daemon-y bits compared to my power armored dudes that I'm still working on.

>>51146247
>Is that some shitty new fluff?

No. Not at all.
How do you not know this yet?

>>51146151
I want to believe.
Diaz daemonettes sold well and so did traitor legions. Maybe the noise marine upgrades are selling well?
I think there's demand for it.

>>51146247

Dunno, but they were stupid enough to dissolve the fantasy world already.

>>51146247
No, it's very old fluff.

>>51146237
As long as the galaxy exists, the Chaos Gods don't get what they want. The Eye of Terror enveloping the galaxy doesn't mean the Chaos Gods get to rule it.

Abaddon rules the Eye now and he will rule te Eye later.

>>51146237
You are a demon.

Only they and the suicidal mad cultist want the gods to win.

Moth other hope to either double cross the gods or milk them for what they're worth and then fuck the universe.

>>51146263
Not him, but Chaos's end goal is to kill themselves? How does that make sense?

>>51146251
You got it backwards. Lorgar created the Gal Vorbak which were basically more stable possessed which could shape between Daemon and Human form at will. He wanted this symbiosis for all humanity, but Erebus ruined it all in his ambition to usurp Lorgar's power.

>>51146251
>Abaddon doesn't serve the Chaos Gods.
>meanwhile he serves the chaos god their final victory on a platter
Because when the eye devours the whole galaxy he will be the real ruler of the "dark imperium", am i rite?

>>51146282
They won't die if this galaxy dies. There are other realities and galaxies out there.

Not to mention that time means nothing in the Warp and they will exist no matter what happens to real space.

>>51146263
>>51146275
I remember reading somewhere that they were content to maintain the status quo, since the sheer grimdark of the setting already ensured their continued existence.

>>51146282
You should read the fluff.
This fluff is main rulebook fluff, the very base of the setting.

>>51145758
I'd say the Crown wins
If the wording is Always on a 2+

Reasoning? Kharn.
He always hits on a 2+, including on invisible asshats

>even though it's slightly different with a harness on 6+ and invisibility making you WS1

>Actually I'd need to read the exact wording of both.

>>51146151
They are already seeing what happens when they ignore lines of minis for too long. 3rd parties are stepping in and producing figures and they lose revenue stream. They could remove Slaanesh from the rules and lore, but he's pretty well tied in there, and 40k doesn't have skaven so you can't slip in The Horned Rat.

What's worse for them is third party tournaments don't care if you bring Kromlech orks, or Raging Heroes Daemonetts. Only their private stores care, and even then their are more affiliate stores than corporate locations so they are fighting uphill battles. Affilates don't care if you use none GW parts, or models so long as they look right. Which means you could see armies where only the tanks are GW and ever SoB is from Raging Heroes and no one cares as long as she is WYSIWYG

>>51146261
If you're going for the generic plastic prince then it doesn't really have that much more detail to it.

The maulerfiends are going to be the hard ones to paint.

>>51145719
Could you link to it?

Tried to find it myself but can't find head or tail in the forum mess.

>>51146223
>I suppose if, for some reason, you really want to run an army of just tons of Onagers and Knights, with Enginseer HQs and cheap Servitor Troops, this will let you do that.
Actually nevermind just kidding, you can't take the cheap AM Servitors as Troops, you'd be forced to take 4 tax units of Vanguard that aren't getting either the SkitManiple or WarConvo bonuses just to enable this.

Not worth. Fucking shame.

>>51146291
If he sits on the Golden Throne he will gain omniscience over the Eye/galaxy. Making him its ruler. The Chaos Gods will be shut out and their dreams of reducing the galaxy to warp soup will be stopped at least for the time being.


>>51146287
I got it straightforward. Lorgar fell to the Daemon Princess words hook line and sinker. The symbiosis idea came from her as well as the idea that humanity needs to worship the Chaos Gods or become like the Eldar.

>>51146287
The Gal Vorbak were gifts from the gods to those who made the journey in the Eye and survived, becoming Super Possessed with a symbiotic relationahip with their daemon, rather than the Daemon taking complete control over them.

Though in the Dark Apostle book, the Possessed Marines are able to shift throught human and daemon form at will, though they feel daemonic and violent urges come from their literal inner daemon.

>>51146302
So they only want this specific galaxy to die? Why?

And weren't they all created by the members of this specific galaxy? If other galaxies are supposedly just as good, why aren't there any gods created from other galaxy's emotions? In fact, the only out-of-galaxy creatures we know about are the Nids. Do Nids feed Chaos?

And isn't their power directly linked to the belief and emotions of the members of the galaxy? I specifically remember the gods weakening significantly while the Emperor was alive and spreading his heavy atheism.

>>51146310
That's headcanon you read from this board or a fan forum.

The Gods of CHAOS are anything but guys who like status quos.

>>51146324
Culexus overrides all. It has a line that says "always harness on a 6+ even if it would normally be a different result".

Then again Culexus has absolutely no way to counter Magnus because Magnus is a fucking FMC and will just fly out of his little bubble.

>>51146367
>So they only want this specific galaxy to die? Why?

They want all realities and all universes to be consumed by them.

The Beast series confirms that the reach of Chaos extends to other galaxies.

And belief doesn't empower the gods. Emotion empowers them and there is no shortage of it even if this galaxy is destroyed.

>>51146332
Yeah, the Maulerfiends look awesome though. Right now my army is a CAD, though I've been told if I remove some dogs for Possessed I can make it a Blood Host, though I absolutely hate the Possessed models.

Do you mind if I post my list?

>>51146350
>If he sits on the Golden Throne he will gain omniscience over the Eye/galaxy. Making him its ruler. The Chaos Gods will be shut out and their dreams of reducing the galaxy to warp soup will be stopped at least for the time being.
What? Where does this come from?

Why does he suddenly gain omniscience and why does omniscience give him the power to shut out the gods?

>>51144330
One day, this meme might even be funny again.

>>51146367
>So they only want this specific galaxy to die? Why?
To glut themselves on the collective deathscream of untold billions of lives.

Infinite universes, infinite times, to the gods it's just a buffet with entertainment.

>>51146368

1: The status quo is about as chaotic as things get. It's an all you can eat buffet for them.

2: You realise Chaos is a misnomer in that sense, right? Stagnancy is basically Nurgle's middle name. Only Tzeentch is outright a personifying god of small c chaos.

>>51146367
Because they have no self control, they just want to keep eating and eating until there is nothing left.

The only god who seems to at least realize this is Tzeentch who is, ironically for the god of change, plotting to sabotage the gods own plans so as to stop the gods winning.

All I'm saying are Chaosfags not knowing their own fluff saying that expanding the eye is a good idea because some how the non Psyker Abaddon will be excellent.

Or I'm missing some wonderul GW new lore that explain why expanding the eye is not fucking retarded. In the long run

>>51146401
Sure, everyone does, but I don't know much about KDK as compared to chaos marines and daemons.

>>51146406
>What? Where does this come from?

Laurie Goulding. He says two new novels about the Emperor and Golden Throne are coming soon. In them there will be explanation of how the Golden Throne works.

Basically, the Golden Throne grants the person sitting on it omniscience over the galaxy as well as boost his/her psychic ability. Abaddon will become the new God Emperor and close the door on the Chaos Gods. He will rule the Eye/Galaxy and keep safe mankind.

>>51146331
Hey thanks anon. I didn't know about Raging Heroes before and i have some spare Daemonette parts. Gonna be making myself some new Daemonettes out from their praying mantis models.

>>51146463
but... that makes no sense.

The emperor is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, psykers in existence.
If he doesn't have the ability to "shut the door" on chaos when he's on the throne what will non-psyker Abaddon do?

Is Abaddon secretly a stronger psyker than the emperor?

>>51146433
>1: The status quo is about as chaotic as things get. It's an all you can eat buffet for them.

Archaon in fantasy explains it best by saying the Chaos Gods are idiot children who will destroy the world just because they can. Why wouldn't they want the galaxy destroyed? Why wouldn't the kids want to see the cookie jar broken and all its cookies eaten in one frantic feast.

It's not like they have any comprehension of consequence or time living in relm with no linear time at all.

>>51146503
Abaddon has 10K years worth of prep-time. Just trust in him.

>>51146463
That's pretty stupid imo

That would imply that Emps has the ability to lock out Chaos and yet he doesn't.

>>51146463

The same golden throne that burned out the second or third most powerful Psyker around in like five minutes?

And you know "Omniscience" isn't omnipotence, right? Or indeed, the correct word for what you're trying to describe. Being able to see everything in the Galaxy at once isn't knowing all.

>>51146518
Well if he locks out chaos he probably would lock out himself

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I'm entering a 1000 point tournament at the end of the month, I have 49 points spare and I'm unsure what to do with them. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I'm using Death Guard traitor Legions rules with the Warband and Spawn formations as part of the Vectorium.

Chaos lord - 115
Bike
Power weapon
Mark of Nurgle

Chosen - 155
4 x Melta
1 x combi melta

Rhino - 47
Havoc Launcher

Chaos Space Marines Squad - 110
1xcombi melta
1xmelta
Mark of Nurgle

Rhino - 47
Havoc Launcher

Chaos Space Marines Squad - 110
1xcombi melta
1xmelta
Mark of Nurgle

Rhino - 47
Havoc Launcher

Bikes - 118
2xplasma gun
Mark of Nurgle

Havocs - 130
4xautocannon
Mark of Nurgle

2xSpawn - 72
Mark of Nurgle

>>51146463
40k old lore was not great. But this takes the price for bad lore.

Geez we really have 12 years old writing the new fluff.

>>51144995
>>51145036
According to the spoiler thread in Reddit, there's a BT formation that's composed of the new Inquisitor, the Living Saint, a Tempestus Scion Platoon, 1 Captain, 0-1 Sternguard Squads, 2-4 Crusader Squads, and 1-2 Assault Squads, with all marines have the BT Chapter Tactics.

Benefits are that everything gets Crusader; if you have the max number of squads, everything gets Zealot, and all units can reroll failed Charge rolls, and gain Furious Charge on a Charge roll of 10+.

>>51146514
So did Cawl, he still got punked by a fucking Cron.

And Abaddon has been busy planning the next crusade every time his latest failure sent him back to square one. He hasn't had time to actually plan on what he does when he wins, I don't even think he expected to at this point.

>>51146547
That barely seems worth it.

>>51146559
Haven't you heard? His crusades weren't failures. Abaddon is the man with the plan. Trust in him.

>>51146559

>But all his Crusades were successes!

His list of accomplishments in the fluff that started insisting that include such amazing achievements as "Found a cool sword" and "Blew up one fairly major planet out of a galaxy of millions".

Some of his crusades gained him ground, especially number 12. Calling it all successes is duck sucking that actively makes him harder to take seriously than just admitting he's not perfect.