/5eg/ Last thread was a hipsterfest edition

Quick, what can I say that will trigger as many people as the last thread did

>>51108920
> he rolled 3 dices instead of one and multiply by 3

>>51108955
> he only apply CHA once instead of applying it 3 times.

>>51109509
Why are there so many classes when you could achieve the same thing with just Fighters and Wizards? Rogue? Just a sneaky fighter with a focus on daggers. Sorcerer? Just a refluffed and weak version of a Wizard.

>>51109559
Why do you even have Fighter? Just refluff Wizard. Like...Magic missile is a high speed sword slash.

>>51109582
Wizards are just as good at hitting things with swords as Fighters. They have the same proficiency. Just build Dex or Strength, use the appropriate weapon, and eschew casting entirely.

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Ranger UA is TODAY. Quick, everyone, what are your expectations?

>>51109582
Shield: deflect stuff with your sword
Invisibility: bending light with your sword
Charm Person: You show off your awesome sword skill to the target
Stone Wall: You stab your sword on the ground and slice up portion of earth.
Darkness: You swordmanship is so great, you can cut the light.

>>51109633
Fey Ranger
Anti-Undead Ranger
Battlemaster Ranger

I need advice for making a middle-aged ex-rogue halfling cleric for rise of the dragon queen. Trickery domain seems a given. Anything I should be aware of?

>>51109633
What I want: Stealthy/trickster/trapsman Ranger.
What I'll get: Spellcasting ranger which is just a weak version of druid without the shapeshift.

>>51109662
Trickery domain is one of the weakest domain.

>>51109509
Something something Trump something something Meryl Streep ecks dee

>>51109633
>Ranger
How do you know?

>>51109693
Because that's how the alphabet works?

>>51109693
He knows the alphabet.

>>51109088
Alright lads, I want you to name the spells every Wizard should know, no matter what school they went through.

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>>51109693
Because every arcana so far was going in the alphabetic order without skipping any class, and last time we had paladins.

>>51109678
Sad. Any advice on how to make a cleric that also functions as an off-rogue? Over the hill bandit who's put his rough-and-tumble criminal days behind him?

>>51109720
Wish
Counterspell

>>51109720
Grease. Grease is all you need.

>>51109693
They're going in Alphabetical order of the PHB classes, last was Paladin. This week will be ranger. Learn your ABCs, anon.

Hey /5eg/, how would I craft something with diamonds? More specifically, grafting a diamond shaft to something.

>>51109672
>druid without the shapeshift.
Yes please.

>>51109729
Pick a cleric and use dex instead of str. You'll probably want knowledge domain for emulating rogue's "I know how to do and operate everything" shtick.

>>51109737
It is, after all, the time, the place, the motion, and the way we are feeling.

>>51109754
Nature cleric already exists.

>>51109748
Don't start this shit again.

>>51109705
>>51109711
>>51109728
>>51109738
Life is hard for the 8 Int Wizard.

>>51109729
Trickery is alright. You will ne weaker than other cleric defensively and offensively (no heavy armor, martial weapon,blast spell). But cleric as a class is pretty strong. Just stay out of combat and spam Sacred flame and spiritual weapon.

>>51109748
you do realize a diamond shaft would snap in half right
or am i being pickaxe memed

>>51109781
...I haven't started it before?
>>51109805
Would a diamond made a decent blade? Because it's already in sword-form. I just kinda want to make it into a polearm of some sort. I figured it would be more allowable is I went whole-hod and bothered to ensure the shaft was made of the same material.

>>51109833
Diamond makes for incredibly shitty solid structures, as it's hard (meaning scratch resistant), but as brittle as a rusty aluminum can. You'd be better off with a metal blade with small diamond bits embedded into the edge, with a normal wooden or metal haft.

>>51109833
A whole sword made of diamond? Pretty bad. Like 100 times less tough than steel or something. I am pretty sure someone talked about it while discussing about Minecraft's diamond blade.

A diamond tip steel blade? Should be pretty good.

>>51109877
Well I mean it's already the blade for a fairly stocky weapon, so I think the enchantment (it's a magic weapon) might compensate for that. Or my DM didn't really look into it that much,

I just want a way to improve it for my character that's a little more internally consistent. If it's not possible, I might just see if I can use regular metal although I think if I could swing a diamond shaft I might get my bonus action attack t o count under the same enchantment.

>>51109748
The "easiest" way is to make it diamond-studded rather than solid diamond. Other than that, find a magic spell that shapes rock and convince your DM to let it fuse a pile of diamonds into a single object.

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>>51109833
Diamonds are hard. That means they are difficult to scratch, cut, and gouge. It does not mean they are difficult to break, snap, or break. A child could turn a diamond ring to rubble with a single hammer blow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMjFNB-mbI4#t=0m33

>whole-hod
goddamnit anon i'm gonna trust you on this

As >>51109877 said, whole diamonds are not suitable for weapons. The best idea would be to impregnate a very hard metal with diamond dust or fragments, the same way that we put corundum or diamonds into drill bits and cutting blades for shop and metalwork. Such a metal would be terrible for a long blade, which must remain flexible, but you could get away with a spear or dagger.

You could also use multiple types of metals or steels in the construction of a blade. Softer, less rigid metal for the core, a harder steel for the blades, and something like diamond-impregnated tungsten/steel alloy for a tip.

Talk to your local dwarf. They can answer all your metallurgical, gemological, and smithing questions.

>>51109088
>>51109822
It's this time again. THREAD WAR.

>>51109957
>implying the DM will know any of this dogshit
>implying it won't just end with minecraft esque mechanics with diamond stuff being the best

How do I run a heist themed campaign?

>>51110025
Uh, that thread is ~50 minutes too late. The war is already over.

>>51110049
Then don't ask?

>>51110060
Play Shadowrun instead. It's fun.

Heist in 5e is pretty sad with Pass without trace Crag cat druid around.

>>51110049
It is your duty to not let your DM be an idiot. This is fourth grade geology and swordfag 101.

>>51109633

Stupid Urban Ranger/ Bounty Hunter
Animal companion focused Ranger
and if we're lucky A sniper focus ranger (Something that focuses on single accurate, Big damage strikes instead of lego-lame rapid shot, many shot, blender shot)

>>51109088
Person new to 5e here,
For downtime training it says you need to find an instructor, can this just be another player in the party and you pay them the 1gp instead? If that happened the trainer party member would effectively be giving up 250 days of downtime they could be using for themselves but effectively getting comfortable lifestyle for only 1gp a day (or modest for free) during that time.

>>51110060
Running heist is pretty much a turn-based thing.

You let the players gather infomation and plan stuff.

You let them follow that plan to a certain point then you present them with some obstracle.

Repeat the process.

>>51110092
>the hardest part of a heist is not being noticed by guards as you sneak past them
>every Druid, almost exclusively from temperate climes, has seen a fucking elusive snow leopard that cannot even be tracked by magic and lives in the ass-end of the frozen north
nigga have you even seen a heist movie
no one ever just sneaks past guards
if you need to roll a Stealth check once during your big heist you're already playing outside the genre and have fucked up bigly

>>51110092
>Shadowrun
>the game of 1000 rolls just to scratch your ass

>>51110135
Never watched a heist movie in my life, where is this guy wrong?

>>51110073
That wasn't me, the guy asking the question.

I appreciate that it might not make practical sense, but I think due to the magical nature of the weapon a diamond shaft might be what I'm looking for. I want the enchantment that comes with it, diamonds are a sorta magic material (they're the damn keys to reviving someone) and it seems more internally consistent even if it doesn't make real-world sense.

The only issue is I have no idea HOW to get a shaft of diamonds and attach it to the sword. I was thinking Forge cleric but... no dice, it'd be way more that 100gp.

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>>51110119
Urban Rangers you say, two-eggs-shy-of-a-basket Edboy?

>>51110119
You sound like an absolute idiot who has no idea what he's talking about.

So I kind of want to make a level 3 Mastermind Rogue, because the party would love me if I can toss some Aid their way. My plan was Crossbow Expert with rapier and a hand-crossbow. That way I could attack with either weapon, and if I hit get sneak attack that round. Then use my bonus action to, say, give the paladin advantage. If I miss, I'll instead use the bonus action for a second attempt at getting my sneak attack in. One level dip in fighter for shield and medium armour proficiency, as well as +2 to my ranged weapon attacks.

My problem is, the rest of Mastermind Rogue is really shitty, and each level spent in a class that isn't Rogue is going to bite into my sneak attack quite severely. I kind of want to grab a few spells. I have three good stats to spend, so I'd be able to make my Int decent enough for a dip in Wizard, but to get to a decent spell level I'll lose so many sneak dice that it doesn't seem worth it any more. Is my best bet to just continue going into Mastermind Rogue just for the sneak dice, or is there some other way to salvage the character?

>>51110218
> Spending a feat slot and his archetype on getting mutually exclusive features that he won't be able to use in the same round
> Also deciding to multiclass into wizard for some fucking reason
Make up your mind about what do you want.

>>51110060
The actual heist doesn't happen until near the end of the campaign. Everything else is prep work. You have to:

Be scouted by the mysterious benefactor who will first test your skills to see if you're the right team for the job,
Scout out the location,
Get dirt on the workers and owners for blackmail or exploitation,
Perform a small-time job to test the private guards' and/or local constabulary's reaction speed and methodology,
Do a favor for the local criminal underground so you can get their help with some part of the plan OR trick them into running their own heist elsewhere which you sabotage in order to throw the fuzz onto them,
Quest for a magical MacGuffin that will help you disable part of the security system,
Arrange for the drop with some untrustworthy fuckers, possibly getting burned on the first attempt,
And finally execute your heist.
After that you may have another session where you deliver the goods to your buyer or the benefactor, evading the one canny detective who was always on your trail and also being betrayed by your associates.

Tell me your character idea and I'll tell you what I'd give to your character in my game.

>>51110168
A studded glove that increases unarmed strike damage to d6 and gives advantage to offensive grapple checks and Sleight of Hand checks.

>>51110218
Mastermind is only shitty in dungeon crawls, otherwise it is at least on par with thief
You can only use your bonus action for one thing. I understand it must be tempting to get so many options but you'll end up not doing anything particularily right

My advice is go full mastermind with a light crossbow and maybe pick up magic initiateat some point

>>51110158
No one crouches down and sneaks through the lobby by running from potted plant to potted plant. The job is too big to risk on someone's shoes making a squeaky noise.

Cameras gets cut. The guard is personally distracted by another member of the team, usually a woman with some distressing problem, so that there is no risk of them overhearing shit behind them or looking over their shoulder. Likewise, guards from secured areas are lured out. The guy who actually "sneaks" around and infiltrates isn't trying to tiptoe anywhere; he's in a disguise and walks around in full view like he belongs there, because anything else is suspicious as fuck. If you're dressed right and carry yourself properly, people, even guards and other staff, will think you're supposed to be there. That fucker might even walk right up to a guard and bluff his way past by insinuating he's an out-of-town member of the organization here for a surprise inspection.

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>>51110313
A cleric, who was drafted into servitude and worship to a god he's never even heard of before.

>>51110178
No you're right. 3 Ranger Archetypes that have historically been in every edition and permutation of the game. No chance any of them will happen.

>>51110344
Sounds more like a warlock desu

If pic is related, a holy symbol that adds Dissonant Whispers to domain spells and Vicious Mockery as a bonus cleric cantrip. Vicious Mockery always comes out in a bizarre, alien language that cause intense feelings of madness, forcing disadvantage on the saving throw.

>>51110381

Don't we already have an animal companion focused Ranger? The beastmaster/beast conclave?

>>51110247
They're not mutually exclusive. Odds are I'll be able to hit an opponent flanked by one of my friends each attack, it's how all our previous games have gone so far. Movement to stay away from the enemies and try to lure them into triggering AOO from my friends, Action to get a sneak attack in on whatever the cleric is fighting, Bonus action to give the paladin advantage to set him up for a nice smite the next round.

I haven't decided to multiclass into wizard, I'm just really not excited about continuing into Mastermind Rogue. It's features:
3: Some proficiencies and the Mimic ability. Meh.
3. Help as a bonus action. Aid Ally range extended to 30ft. Nice for my party.
9: Spend a minute to learn if a creature has a better mental stat than me. Bleh.
13. Reaction to divert a hostile attack onto another hostile creature nearby. Decent, I guess.
17. Immunity to telepathy. Bleh.
>>51110328
Thing is, party damage output is way higher if I get two chances of hitting with my sneak attack each round, and can give my mates advantage if I hit on the first round. Advantage is worth more for the paladin than me putting out 1d6 extra damage, but me putting out 8d6 of damage is worth way more than the advantage, so Bonus action would be:
Prio 1: If my attack action failed (unlikely), use bonus action attack to get sneak attack dice in.
Prio 2: Give party mate advantage on an attack
Prio 3: Plink someone for 1d6 damage.
We're way more dungeoncrawly than social town stuff, so a lot of the court intrigue stuff is kind of meaningless to me.

>>51110313

I typed up this in the other /5eg/ but didn't see this thread was made, so I'm just copy + pasting what I said in >>51110356

"Half-Elf Urchin Sorcerer (Silver Dragon Bloodline). Constantly boasts that his mom is a silver dragon (when no one's even sure dragons exist, as the last one seen in recorded history was 2,000 years ago). Dad's a nice enough elf, but a bit distant, and never really laid down any hard rules for his kid. Mother is not around, father won't talk about her no matter what.

The overall idea is that this is a punk kid who pulled harmless pranks as a child with his magic, but as an adult wants to make a name for himself, to prove to his father that he is someone to be proud of after a childhood of delinquency, and to maybe meet his mother, even if she isn't a dragon but is some human girl."

>>51110313
Womanizer knight who lost his honor after falling in love with his king's queen, tried to prevent her execution for treason and ended up escaping his own.

>>51110418
You'll soon notice that apart from level 3 ability, all rogue subclass abilities are largely lackluster. It's because rogue's strength comes from his main class features, not subclass.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/artificer

>>51110438
A trinket that lets the sorcerer cast Hex with its own spell slots and lets the sorcerer recover 2 expended sorcery points per short rest.

>>51110449
I'd ask what the queen was like and any talents she had. The item would be a memento from her that did something related to the queen's talents.

>>51110313
A roguish chef who finds more joy in trying new recipes than stabbing people in the back. He worked under an elven mentor for several years before setting off on his own.
Mechanically, dragonborn thief rogue with the guild artisan background.

http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/1_UA_Artificer_20170109.pdf
NNNANI?!

>>51110479
Literally nobody called that. What the shit, Mearls?

>>51110479
>Int 1/3rd caster base class
>Alchemist and Gunsmith subclasses
We Eberron now?

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Storytime bitches
>playing SKT but our DM modifies everything
>presents us with a number of background hooks to take
>one of our player is a Ranger and his choice of adventure-background was "you don't remember much about your past, and lately you have begun to question your own capabilities and self-worth"
>said Ranger lies constantly and keeps revealing his "true identity" as an entirely different person each time we catch him
>wants to kill Zephyros after he's been so nice to us so we finally tell him to fuck off
>Zephyros also tells us about something related to this giant mess named "Helaton", but no one knows what that is
>Ranger-player decides to be a Warlock instead since he's not feeling Ranger
>get to Waterdeep and the Ranger is yoinked into a room by some noble guards for impersonating the local royalty, and is nearly publically executed (but then jailed)
>everyone is happy because he was a huge fucker
>new Warlock (who the Ranger was impersonating) joins the party and travels with us for the next 15 or so sessions
>side-plot-that's-actually-main-plot involves Imryth kidnapping a dwarf who has learned an amazing secret about giants, and we've mostly been trying to rescue this dwarf instead of kill giants
>met the dragonbitch in Nightstone where she was looking for a chest owned by the dwarf, which we had, but successfully hid from her
>lots of shit happens, we visit a lot of the dwarf's secret research posts and hide-outs, and finally get the key to open his chest
>it's a paper detailing some great secret that everyone immediately forgets upon reading
>even writing out very other word or letter or splitting up the story or reading it in a mirror or translating it into other languages and each party member memorizing a different piece doesn't help; any time it begins to make sense, you forget
>finally get to Eye of the Allfather, talk to a ghost and ask the oracle some questions
>even the oracle doesn't know what Helaton is

>>51110381
>>51110411
>>51110119

>3 Ranger Archetypes that have historically been in every edition and permutation of the game.
False

>Stupid Urban Ranger/ Bounty Hunter
Unnecessary, but I think only 3.5 had this.

>Animal companion focused Ranger
5e always had that. It's called beastmaster and the revised one is actually playable.

>and if we're lucky A sniper focus ranger (Something that focuses on single accurate, Big damage strikes instead of lego-lame rapid shot, many shot, blender shot)
No edition of the game has ever had this. I think this is something you just made up.

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>>51110479
Holy shit, I did not expect that.

>>51110479
Shit, I'd love to play this. Shame I'm already a warlock in my current game.

>>51110469
Yeah, I guess. Even Arcane Trickster isn't particularly impressive, since it's so far behind on spells. When other classes are taking out entire squads with a single spell, AT is casting Disguise Self or doing some sneak attack dice, or incapacitating a single person with a concentration check until they succeed a save they get at the start of each of their rounds.

>>51110169
Underrated post

>>51110328
>go full mastermind
Never go full rogue, the capstone sucks. Almost always best to grab one level of fighter so you can grab a fighting style.

>>51110479
I am so horribly disappointed with Alchemist.

>>51110479

Color me surprised.

>>51110479
What the fuck!? Literally no one thought this was coming. But if they're letting this be playtest material - not to mention a full class - I can only speculate this one thing:

We're going back to Eberron, baby!

>>51110479
It has a dead level at level 11. I didn't think they did those anymore.

>>51110479
I knew there'd be some impetus to put out something big for the first UA of the year, but I never would have imagined this. How long has it been since Artifailure wizard?

>>51110601
I've had my suspicions ever since Monster Hunter and Inquisitive. Those two were very Eberron.

>>51110527
>ask him about this weird symbol we found in the dwarf's chest; tells us it's the symbol of Congenio Ioun
>our Wizard's mysterious benefactor (his background, also pretty sure it's the lich from PotA) previously sent him a book about Congenio Ioun, the inventor of said stones
>walk outside and there's Imryth
>vaporizes a wyrmling we stole from some cultists and starts fighting Harshnag
>our Warlock somehow goes SSJ thanks to his Patron when Imryth lightning breaths him
>Imryth also has a rock spinning around her giant dragon head
>Rogue knocks it off her head with a critical dagger toss
>I go after it but get crushed by falling rocks
>give Rogue Darkvision so he can find it instead and we escape
>DRAGON CULT is attacking our airship outside
>kick everyone off our flying boat but nearly crash because someone harpoon gunned a stone golem off the edge of the railing and it anchored us into a cliff before we cut the rope
>also the dwarf Imryth kidnapped is there now but he's unconscious, has no thoughts, and can't be woken
>Rogue discovers that attuning to the ioun stone allows him to remember the secret on the pages in the dwarf's chest
>FLASHBACK
>Imryth contracted some ancient GOO/Far Realm entity and made a deal for help with a spooky ritual
>said ritual would erase all knowledge of an individual from reality
>she chose Helaton, who is actually the firstborn son of King Hekaton
>the reason the Ordning broke is not because Imryth has replaced the heir with a shithead, but because no one even knows who the real heir is anymore despite him still existing
>ioun stone gets passed around so everyone can gain the knowledge
>Wizard-Detective goes into his lair and ponders over a massive Investigation check to solve the mystery
>FLASHBACK
>Zephyros, a diviner, knew who everyone in the party was when we met him
>except the Ranger
>THE RANGER WAS FUCKING HELATON
>entire table starts screaming

>>51109655
This is a stupid dead meme

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>>51110479
>>51110496

>>51110624
That is a bit odd, it looks like 11th level just gives you an increase in dice for Alchemical Acid, Healing Draught, and Thunder Monger.

>>51110624
You learn 1 extra spell and a Alchemical Acid, Healing Draught, and Thunder Monger all become more powerful. It's not a powerful change, but it's not a dead level.

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>>51110479
>>51110596
>still can't heal FORTY (40) hp like the Whizzurd variant from the Eberron UA with the Alchemist feat at level 5
>or mix potions they produce themselves, if your DM would be kind enough to allow the variant rule in order to bypass the 3 pot limitation at the cost of wasting your spell slots
>dont even have the risk of blowing themselves up
You MAD chemist bois?

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I REALLY don't like the mechanical servant class feature. Not only it feels really out of place for both gunsmith and alchemist, it's stepping on beastmaster ranger's toes. At minimum, it should be it's own subclass. Like, a robotech, or golem maker.

>>51110119
>Animal companion focused Ranger
...you mean Beastmaster?

>>51110711
He means the Artificer's Mechanical Servant

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>>51110707
>Like, a robotech
please
they're called macrosses

>>51110707
>it's stepping on beastmaster ranger's toes.
Everything does. A wizard does. A fighter with a dog does.

>>51110753
Anything that wizard can conjure up usually sucks, though, and fighter's dog has nothing on beastmaster's pet either.

I have a possibly contentious question: how do you deal with a problem player?

>>51110775
I kick him out of the group.

Hey /tg/, I'm about to run a Dark Sun campaign in 5E, and I was wondering what books/movies/games you guys would recommend in order to get in the proper mindset? Any suggestions are welcome.

>>51110775
I've had three problem players, and all of them I've dealt with by having a little talk. One of them left on his own because what he wanted from a game just didn't mesh with what the rest of us wanted, the other two stopped being so autistic. If they're not willing to cooperate, though, don't be afraid to kick them out. A single rotten player can ruin a whole group.

>>51110663
>>51110479
>2d6 piercing, 9d6 thunder damage at 150 range
Watadafuq?
Am I clueless or something? I've never played a game that gets that far but how are other classes like martials supposed to keep up? I can understand Fighter a bit if he hits all 4 attacks with a +2 or +3 weapon but what about, like, barbarian?

>>51110707
>Oh no, the artificer gets a mechanical crag cat that literally never gets any better
>Steps on Beast Conclave's toes

>>51110775
Talk to them man to manchild, explain why their shit is a problem, and if they can't either nut up or shut up, they get the boot.

>>51110792
Mad Max and Dune

>>51110805
Pick up sharpshooter and you get 500ft range.

>>51110805
That all hinges on you actually hitting anything.

>>51110805
Barbarian - rage damage scales things up decently, and this class abuses GWM like no other. Get a source of bonus action attacks and reaction attacks.

9d6 is an average of 31.5 added damage. That's really not that hard to make up with multiple attacks.

>>51110678
"Dead levels" in previous editions still made some of your existing features better. Usually your saves, skills, and BAB/THAC0 got better. At the bare minimum you got more HP. Casters often learned a new spell or two at a dead level even if they didn't get a new level of spells. That doesn't mean they're not dead levels. A level where a couple existing features improve and you learn another spell of a level you can already cast is still a dead level as it's commonly understood.

>>51110805
>one attack per round

>>51110805
You're an Int-based class with a single attack that must use Dexterity to target this thing and are otherwise doing the damage of an Acid Flask-throwing Alchemist +1d6, but targeting AC instead of making the enemy Dex save. You are also using your bonus action every round to reload the cannon, so your entire turn is going into this pretty much.

It will probably get nerfed, but it's good to see WotC starting with options that are maybe a little bit too good (and easy to tone down) than the usual erring on the side of caution and making useless bullshit that they never revisit and buff.

>>51110707
I agree. I feel like Mechanical Servant class feature was meant to be an archetype of its own (to basically let you become Iron Man), but they couldn't balance it in time, so instead just stapled this to it for now.

>>51110827
>>51110854
I understand that but I'm not used to epic level shit at all so I'm trying to figure out what kind of gear a level 17 character should have.

>>51110792
>>51110816
Conan, John Carter of Mars

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>>51110792
The old TSR Dark Sun games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG6FZsqm4q0

>>51110810
To be fair, the mechanical servant can be large and cr 2. So you can have a clockwork allosaurus.

>>51110893
You don't even need magic items for a barbarian to do better than 11d6+Dex.

PAM, GWM Barbarian at high level:
2x(1d10+5 Strength +4 rage +10 GWM) = 49 average

Bonus action for: 1d4+5+4+10 = 21.5 average

So using action and bonus, the barbarian is getting 60 on average before critical hits.

>>51110931
Sounds overpowered until you have to go anywhere or do anything that a 15 foot tall, 700 pound clanking metal dinosaur isn't helpful at.

>>51110871
The best way to gun is probably artificer 15/fighter or ranger 5. The gun doesn't even have the loading property, so you don't need to take Crossbow Expert.

>>51110948
To be fair, the artificer can get Sharpshooter to keep up with the Barbarian's GWM, giving the artificer 11d6+DEX+10, or 53.5 damage at a maximum distance of 500ft.

>>51110995
It has worse than the loading property. It has the Special property: Must be reloaded as a Bonus Action.

>>51110995
The gun only fires one shot. You need to use your bonus action to reload it each time. Having two attacks per round only helps you on the first round; every time after that, you're only firing once. Can't even cheese it with Haste.

>>51111005
I think the easiest comparison is to rogues, though. Can deal 1d8+10d6+Dex with a crossbow and doesn't need their bonus action to reload.

>>51110995
The best way to Artificer is Thief Rogue 3 / Alchemist X and throw 2x Acid Flasks every round, ho ho.

>>51111021
Could you have your robot monkey Chim-Chim reload the gun for you before you do your second attack?

Okay, just finished reading it.

I hate it.

>>51111045
Only if your DM is a fucking pushover.

>>51110995
Even worse, every special shot is its own action. Without that, you've just got a 2d6 gun.

Ok, so Artificer looks pretty good. Sadly, I don't see a reason to not go Gunsmith archetype the entire time. Alchemist seems ok, but then you realize that the Healing Draught is only once per long rest, and the only other things that deal damage are (basically) a fire bomb or an acid bomb. The other things are nice to know, but by level 17 most of them are largely ineffective. The range limitation is also pretty hindering, meaning you're going to have to be near most enemies to deal damage.

I kind of think the Alchemist should also be able to build some delivery system of some kind, with not as long a range as the cannon, but maybe a range similar to a shortbow. Basically, I want them to get a grenade launcher.

>>51111067
>Healing Draught is only once per long rest
Slightly incorrect. It has unlimited use, but each character can only benefit from it once per long rest.

>>51110931
>Mounted Combatant Gunsmith riding a mechanical rhino
Yippy ki yo ki yay.

>>51111045
All of the special shots are "as an action" meaning they don't function off the Attack action. Enjoy your 2 attacks for 2d6+Dex.

>>51111045
>>51111061 raises an excellent point. Even if you have Extra Action, Haste, or a means of reloading the gun outside of your bonus action, the act of getting all that extra d6 thunder damage is coming from the action-use of the gun. And it's not a Use an Object action either, so no Thief doubling.

>>51111067
It does look like it needs some balance tweaks. Other than that, it's balanced like a rogue with AT subclass. Reliant on its scaling damage options.

>>51111099
Artificer 15/Fighter 2/Ranger 3
Action Surge, a robot monkey, and a real monkey.

DM'd my first game with a 4 of my new friends on Saturday with Mines of Phandelver. Thanks to the anon who linked me to Matthew Colville a few weeks ago, even though he is a cuck.

Had an awesome time and we managed to clear out the first cave in the first session. Anyone have some first DM advice or advice on how to be more descriptive on the fly?

>>51111090
That's what I meant.

As for gunsmith, there's also the issue that the gun is magic only for the purposes of his it fires bullets and the magazine. Meaning if you wanted to make it a +1 weapon, you'd have to do that on your own in downtime, and that's something not every DM is going to allow.

I feel like the Gunsmith should also have the option of a more reliable firearm instead of just the cannon. Trade off the damage and some of the special shots for a 6-shooter revolver that does 1d8 piercing damage with a range of 100/400 ft. and a reload time of a bonus action once the gun's out of bullets.

>>51111067
I'd be fine with fluffing the mechanical servant as being able to launch the things with some small addon. Or just take a sling and slam it into them. Or one of the many magical items you're going to make.

>>51110663
>Gunsmith
I'm on a Mission from Gond.

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>>51111067
You can provide Xd8 healing to every party member once per long rest, which is cool and uses none of your resources. This Alchemist is going to do more healing than the average Cleric does in combat.

The flasks are cantrips on crack.
You have an AoE fire spell every round that does good damage, and a single target acid spell that can also O B L I T E R A T E objects (an object also automatically takes that damage and the damage is maximized). Locked door? Enemy cover? Chain holding up the drawbridge? Not the fuck anymore, gooooood bye.
Thunderstone would also be my choice for the fourth flask, since a 10 foot AoE pushback is great for freeing your allies from sticky situations or shoving enemies into hazards / off cliffs.

Yeah, your range is limited to 30 feet, but you're a d8 Medium Armor class. Invent the flasklatl or grab a jai alai cesta and ask your DM if you can double that at the price of replacing your held weapon.

>51108288
>Sword and board fighter

It's hard to do this without being suboptimal. Sword and boarders work best if you focus dexterity (Rapier+shield) then go EK and get greenflameblade+boomingblade.

Alternatively, you go strength, get a quarterstaff and shield and use PAM. However, you'll want to ditch your shield, use a bigger polearm and use GWM alongside it later at which point it's not very shield-ey.

You can also get away with hand crossbow + shield + crossbow mastery + sharpshooter if your DM doesn't know the errata or, even sling+shield+sharpshooter making melee attacks if you feel drunk enough and your DM allows things that aren't RAI but are RAW.

>>51111160
Maybe the Gunsmith gets to choose from a list of firearms, and the special ammo stuff is tied to the Thunder Cannon?

There's a list of firearms in the DMG, maybe let them choose between a flintlock pistol, flintlock rifle, revolver, and hunting rifle? There's tradeoffs on both (flintlocks do more damage but have to be reloaded every time, revolver + hunting rifle do less damage but have multiple shots before every reload).

>>51111197
>AoE fire spell
So 5 foot radius means it can hit 2 creatures or 6?

>>51110825
Do it anyway. Using flying snakes/owls to spam the 'help' action is just fucking overpowered, I don't know why they ever made it RAI considering familiars can already do so many other things, can be easily replaced and are essentially a free class feature for wizards.

You're just annoying the DM if you insist your familiar constantly has a place in the initiative so you can make it spam 'help'.

>>51111260
Four. Target a tile intersection.

>>51111260
Assuming normal D&D squares, it can hit up to 8 creatures, where X is where the Alchemist's Fire flask lands and O is the surrounding squares.

O O O
O X O
O O O

>>51111217
>It's hard to do this without being suboptimal.
>what is FREE advantages from FREE shoving with Shield Master for FREE

>>51111217
There is nothing suboptimal about being an unhittable waste disposal expert who keeps the enemy at disadvantage forever, neuters their movement speed, and grants the rest of the party (melee) advantage.

This board and 5E in general has a serious theorycrafting problem over two-handed weapon users, always assuming that GWM is the way to make every attack every round and that damage is assured. It's not.

>>51111217
Whoops, didn't link correctly,
>>51108288

>>51111260
5ft radius means 10ft across circle. that's a 3x3 section of grid, so potentially 9 creatures if you're fighting literal rank and file retards.

>>51111307
Fighter with Sharpshooter and Archery using a bow > Fighter with GWF and GWM using any 2hander
GWM is a meme feat

>>51111160
Magic Weapon is on the artificer list.

>>51111134
Prepare to improvise, if that makes any sense. Prepare some names and random encounters for whenever you need them. Keep a reference sheet with the players' AC, passive Perception, spell save DC (if any,) and character traits (so you can give inspiration in a way that makes sense without the players having to beg for it)

>>51111217
No, you use Strength so you can actually shove things over with Shield Master.

>>51111298
What you have sketched is a 7.5 foot radius.

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>>51111327

>>51111373
>>51111307
>>51111301
Anecdotally, the two Shield Master Fighters in my games have been more useful than the GWM Fighter and the PAM Barb.

>>51111425
What's in the rest of the party? That's what really determines how useful the Shield Master fighter is.

>>51111301
I suppose I should've included that as a possibility for using strength. But if you go that route, you probably want a level of rogue for expertise in athletics - which means you'll want a finesse weapon. A rapier.
So you'll still end up rapier+shield, but I guess it allows you to sensibly be a battlemaster (because war magic doesn't really work well alongside shieldmaster) though you could still go up EK. Also you could conisder using strength with the rapier instead for better athletics checks, but.. Eh.

Oh, heck, while you're at it, you could even go for 5 levels of rogue for uncanny dodge. Might as well. I'd probably do that after 11 levels of fighter.

I'd call it bretty gud.

>>51111307
The deal is that the optimal builds are a lot less obvious than with, say, GWM fighter. GWM fighter is literally just 'pick up a fucking greatsword with GWM and go hit things'
Obviously you want to not use GWM if the enemy's AC is too high, but you have to appreciate fighter's speciality revolves around making as many fucking attacks as possible (3 at level 11, action surge for 6, EKs can cast haste for an extra) and GWM capitalizes on this.

Of course, sharpshooter does this too with more flexibility but sharpshooter doesn't allow you to do stuff like reaction attacks with sentinel.

As great as the prone-with-shield grapple hit them in the face and get a slight sneak attack bonus but otherwise deal little damage is, a DM might get a bit annoyed.

>>51111391
My bad, brain was using 4e grid rules for some reason.

>>51111425
Party 1: SM Fighter, PAM Barb, TB Fighter, Wizard, Warlock
Party 2: SM Fighter, Paladin, Rogue, Cleric, Sorcerer
Party 3: GWM Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard, Bladelock

>>51110750

Fuck Minmei

>>51111461
>I'm taking GWM and Sentinel and 2-3 ASIs to hit 20 Strength for my "totally less obvious optimal build"
>I don't "come online" until 8-12, where the game falls apart anyway
>also I'm a Variant Human

>>51111548
>>I don't "come online" until 8-12, where the game falls apart anyway

Poor guy, never getting to play a long-term game. You need better friends or better social skills.

>>51110218
Don't make a mastermind rogue. I made one, the fighter died the very next session and left us with a party of me, the rapier and buckler wielding rogue, a life cleric who just hid and cast cantrips, a necromancer wizard, and a hunter ranger. The only target who would benefit from my Help action was whatever zombie the necromancer had raised beforehand, if he'd remembered to do that. Worst session ever.

>>51110916
>>51110906
>>51110816
Awesome, I will jump on these. I personally love the Dune books already, I'll revisit them.

>>51111373
I'd say you could do either. If you focus dex you should probably still already have 15 strength and heavy armour (You'll only need str+dex+con after all, with a bit of wis) and probably athletics expertise. You don't really need the extra athletics, but I suppose there'll be times you'd fail to grapple without. But, more dexterity means more chance of using the 'negate a dex save on a successful save' ability, more initiative, stealth..
Mostly the delicious initiative.

Also I just remembered as somebody pointed out that shield master can actually be detrimental to a heavily ranged party. The fighter doesn't make awfully great use of proning targets themself due to having only a 1d8 no GWM or anything weapon with maybe defense if they want to be a tanky bastard and maybe sneak attack and maybe duelling instead.

>>51111548
Variant human has it from 8 onwards, which isn't too unreasonable. Before that they simply just don't have sentinel, and sentinel isn't heavily required.
GWM is the key thing, where they try to get advantage and bonuses to-hit or use it on weak targets.

You can still make reaction attacks sometimes even without sentinel.

It's pretty much the same for ranged fighters, they want two feats (Crossbow mastery + sharpshooter) and want to get dex up to 20. Only, they need both of them more than GWM fighter wants sentinel.

>>51111099
>Yippy ki yo ki yay.

>Now I've got a rhino. Ho Ho Ho

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>Revised Beast Ranger
>Gunsmith Artificer
>Favored Enemy damage, Archery style, giant thundercannon
>take a bear as your Ranger pet
>make your mechanical companion POWER ARMOR for the fucking bear
>bolt your thundercannon onto it
>ride around in your armored cockpit and be a turret gunner
It would take forever but boy would your party be surprised when RoBear XV shows up.

>>51111666
But you could have two bears.

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>>51111666

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>>51111666
>Armored Polar Bears
>With 'thunder canons'
Refluff to electricity damage.
WE RED ARMY NOW COMRADES

>>51111691
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, Anon. What don't you understand about the marriage of bear, man, and machine?

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RACE
Tabaxi - 30 feet, x2 (Feline Agility)

CLASS LEVELS
Monk 13 - +20ft, bonus action dash (Step of the Wind)
Barbarian 5 - +10ft
Elk Totem - +15ft (while raging)
Fighter 2 - extra dash action (Action Surge)

SPELLS
Longstrider - +10ft
Haste - x2, extra dash action
Dissonant Whispers - Move your speed as a reaction on a failed save

EQUIPMENT
Boots of Speed - x2
Artifact with the right Major Beneficial Property - +10ft speed

BOONS
Boon of Speed - +30ft

FEATS
Mobile - +10ft

CLASS FEATURES
Balm of the Summer Court - +50ft
Transmuter's Stone - +10ft
Swift Step Draught - +20ft

Here's the build-up and sprint. Note that any non-bonus-actions can be done off-turn via Ready.

Round 1: Wizard casts Longstrider on you. Druid uses Balm of the Summer court on you. Artificer gives you a Swift Step Draught. You drink your Swift Step Draught, then active your Boots of Speed as the last thing in the round. Your speed is 30 (race) + 20 (monk) + 10 (barb) + 10 (mobile) + 50 (balm) + 10 (transmuter) + 10 (Longstrider) + 30 (boon) + 10 (artifact) + 20 (draught) = 200, 200 x 2 (boots) = 400 feet.

Round 2: You rage. Wizard casts Haste on you. Your speed is 400 + 15 (rage) = 415, 415 x 2 (haste) = 830 feet.

Within the next 8 rounds, you have a bard cast Dissonant Whispers on you each turn. The bard readies the spell and casts it on you after you use Feline Agility. On each of your turns, you activate Feline Agility and don't move. If and when you fail the save, you use your reaction to move up to your speed. You then action dash, Haste action dash, Action Surge dash, and bonus action dash (Step of the Wind), allowing you to move 6 times your speed on your turn total. Your speed is 830 x 2 (feline agility) = 1660 feet. You move 1660 x 6 = 9960 feet in that turn.

9960 feet in 6 seconds = 1660 feet per second, or ~1131.818 miles per hour.

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>>51111692
>i never asked for this

>>51111724
Mecha-bear and uber-bear tag-teaming sounds much better.

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>>51111666
>>51111749
>>51111692
It says your mechafriend can look however you like, but you use any beast's stats.
Just pick giant octopus and give your bear mechatentacles.

>>51111731

I knew this was coming

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>suddenly ARTIFICER OUTTA FUCKING NOWHERE
WHAT

IS IT SHIT?

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>>51111754
I've watched enough mecha anime to know that you're either in tune with your robot's HAGANE NO TAMASHIIIIII or your animal companion, not both. Even when you have both, like Lord of Elemental, the animals are riding in the cockpit with you.

>>51111789
No, it's actually pretty alright.

So is ranger not getting more archtypes? They have the least right now.
Also
CONSOLIDATED CHARACTER OPTIONS LIST ANON: I CALL UPON THEE

>>51111731
Potion of Speed?

>>51111814
Ranger UA is next week according to Mearls.

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>>51111776

>>51111789
Doesn't make the biggest numbers but it's not half bad. Fun shit, and something else that casts with INT.

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>>51111814
Oh, right, I should update that. Hang on...

...here we go.

>>51111789
It's pretty strong, but not unintentionally/accidently broken like the Eberron UA wizard variant.
But the flavour is a clusterfuck, in my opinion, and is a serious deviation from the 3,5 variant, and even the PF alchemist. It has guns/cannons, pseudoalchemy, spellcasting AND robots. And the spells are both arcane and divine.
It's just a bit too much, in my opinion. Should've been divided into more subclasses.

>>51111833
> Merals, a fat-ass who has never been outside except to walk to Dunkin Donuts, is going to shit on his least-favorite class even more by making it a full spellcaster and pretend its shitty abilities from 3.5 are still relevant.

Fuck ranger casting, and fuck ranger abilities being so shitty. They are only good if you focus on survival and hunting and track rations, which all of /tg/ has universally decided is boring because anything that isn't COMBAT COMBAT COMBAT is getting in the way of "muh story" and comfy little things like camping and scenery are for fucktard GMs who can't come up with a grand plot.

Ranger should be deleted from the fucking game. It is no longer relevant as a class.

>>51111906
I use my action to pull a Lavender Flask out of my Alchemist's Satchel and allow the calming vapors to wash over Anon.

>>51111789

It's shit.

Thoughts thus far pn Artificer

>>We needed another Int based class anyways
>>Actually a pretty solid skill monkey
>>Infusing seems pointless as opposed to just casting a spell
>>I will wtack my brain for the perfect CR Robot
>>CR2 will laat D2 rounds by mid levels
>>Alchemists will spam super cantrips for solid AOE Damage or Thunderstone all the things
>>Gunsmith will better as a dip since its special mention ves all require a special action and loading

>>51110931

>So you can have a clockwork allosaurus.

I'm not gonna lie, that's pretty fucking awesome.

>>51111789
Actually it's just about everything that's been asked for to make Int more relevant.

Obviously it needs some tweaking, but it hits all of those 'magic-science' notes pretty damn well.

>>51111894
>serious deviation from the 3,5 variant
Nigga did you play a 3.5 artificer?

Guns/cannons just replace the wand-spamming from 3.5 and the effect is mostly the same. 3.5 artificers could make homunculi, which is what the "robot" is replicating. 3.5 artificers used both arcane and divine stuff, both in copy-cat infusions and the items they crafted.

>>51111953
>>>Infusing seems pointless as opposed to just casting a spell
It's an action economy boost. Other people can set off your spells for you, including spells that normally would only effect you.

>>51111953
Anon, are you ok?

>>51111906
>comfy little things like camping and scenery are for fucktard GMs who can't come up with a grand plot.
I can't tell what side of the fence you're on with this subject considering the rest of your post. Please calm down and repeat for the class.
>>51111953
>>>Infusing seems pointless as opposed to just casting a spell
>not wanting to give the assassin rogue all sorts of cool shit to do for when he goes in alone
Its a lower level but giftable contingency.

>>51111953
With infusing, you can give items to other players and allies.

How do infusions interact with concentration?

>>51111994
>>not wanting to give the assassin rogue all sorts of cool shit to do for when he goes in alone
>Its a lower level but giftable contingency.
Give concentration spells to non-casters. The artificer can get around concentration limits that way.

>>51111979
That's the thing, wands are considerably more appropriate. Same with the homunculus, the class overall didn't have such high-tech influences, and I don't think it should because it fits less settings that way.
>inb4 just refluff it lmao

>>51112013
Why would I ever want to give Shield of Faith, Enhance Ability, or Enlarge to non-casters

>>51112013

Ok thats a little nicer. All I could think of doing with it was casting fly on a Jetpack orwhile I was in a cannon for fun but thats a much better use

>>51112009
The person who activates it maintains concentration, so says Mearls.

Infusions would be good if you either had slots for shit or didn't get 3rd level spells at fucking 13.

>>51111894
>more subclasses

And what, lose our favorite Fighting Man and Magic Man organization philosophy?

>>51112049
>high-tech influences
Uh, we have airships, magical trains, an entire country of gnomes with gunz, and golems literally everywhere.

Why do people get so worked up about TECHNOLOGY IN MUH FANTASY? It is literally always, always, always weaker and more restricted than plain magic, and usually involves magic itself as well. It's like weighted training clothes for magic.

>>51112049
Wands were more appropriate in Eberron where low-level magic items were as common as electronics today. A wand economy would fuck up other settings.

The "robot" isn't actually a robot in the UA, and it reads like a homunculus that just doesn't have its own special stat block.

>>51112094
And Eberron wouldn't sneeze at a gun anyway. That's nothing compared to the flying warships that shat lightning.

>>51112072
I'd definitely let alchemist create potions in their spare time with enough money put into various reagents.

>>51112072
I wonder if it's supposed to work with cantrips. I could definitely see use in handing out free cantrips to non-caster party members.

>>51112124
Artificers don't have cantrips and Infuse specifies "when you cast an artificer spell".

Their cantrips are throwing shit as an Alchemist.

>>51112124
Infusion works with artificer spells per its description, and there are no artificer cantrips.

>>51111906
> comfy little things like camping and scenery are for fucktard GMs who can't come up with a grand plot.

The more you play rangers, druids, and other characters with strong wilderness survival skills, the more you get to SKIP things like camping and scenery. You find shortcuts, avoid anything dangerous that might happen in the wild, and eat goodberries. If you want cozy forest adventures, you need PCs who aren't trained for it at all.

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>introduce a new player to D&D about a month ago
>wants to be an artificer, show him the UA
>he's not into it, wants to make constructs
>makes a warlock instead
>gets really excited fighting pirates and explicitly describes his character examining their cannons
>OOC explains that he wants to be able to build guns
>literally a month later "gunsmith" is an actual subclass
Fuck me, I bet he would have really gone for this but he moved back to campus literally days ago. I guess I'll let him know he can reroll his character on spring break if he wants to, but if this had dropped just a little earlier it would have been perfect.

>>51112061
>Why would I ever want the Fighter or Barbarian to have Enlarge that they're concentrating on instead of me, and can be cast by them while they're more than 30 feet away from me
Please think about what you just said for a moment.

>>51112090
>>51112094
>Uh, we have airships, magical trains, an entire country of gnomes with gunz, and golems literally everywhere.
No we don't, the UA doesn't specify that it's Eberron-related (even though it was initially and Eberron class way back in the days).
The 3,5-style alchemist with wands is easier to adapt for different settings when with 5E one you'd have to refluff things.

>>51112229

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic autismo

>>51112229
Please think about the post you replied to for a moment.

I wonder if the mechanical servant could be of a lesser sized beast. I'm kind of imagining an artificer with a little clockwork mouse he sends skittering around to scout ahead.

>>51112258
All of that shit except the train exists in Forgotten Realms you dingaloid, and the trains probably ARE somewhere in Dwarfland.

>>51111944
No, it's actually pretty great

>>51112267
It can't speak, communicate with you, nor can you use its senses. It's even dumber than a normal animal. It's purely for riding around and hitting shit with, not as a scout (which familiars and ranger pets can do).

>>51112281
Who needs trains when you have semi-public transportation circles?

>>51112156
The more I think about it, the more that the lack of cantrips for Artificer rustles my jimmies.

Just give them some number of the harmless ones (Dancing Lights, Guidance, Light, Thaumaturgy, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Minor Illusion).

>>51112260
>>51112262
Goddamn text having no tone of voice to convey shit. I suck at sensing tone in online conversations.

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>>51112281
OTHER...
SETTINGS?

>>51112290

I think it's an outline of something great, but it's definitely not there yet. It's so...unpolished. Unfocused. I see a lot of potential here, but it could very easily go the wrong way too. And I'm willing to bet that it will go the wrong way.

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Y'think Gunsmith and Matt Mercer's Gunslinger would step on each other's toes too much, flavor wise?

They seem like it'd be a neat way to look at Firearms Specialists in a setting, but there is a bit of a crossover.

>>51112323
My setting doesn't have magic so I'm real upset that WotC keeps putting out UAs for classes like Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Druid, Bard, Ranger, etc.

>>51112376
One guy has a gun
The other has A CANNON

>>51112376
>McCree's shitty pathfaggotry subclass
Other than "dude with long range loading weapon" they have 0 mechanical overlap.

>>51112424
>flavor wise

>>51112376
Mercer's gunslinger is more PF style (since that's what he adapted it from) while the gunsmith is basically Isaac Clarke with all the bullshit it can shoot.

>>51112397
In my setting, everyone knows magic so I hate it when they announce new non-caster archetypes for Fighters, Barbarians, and Rogues

>>51110626
they should have released the fucking mystic.

>>51112323
>he's going to pretend it's hard work to justify a wizard who makes a metal golem bear in his setting where NPC wizards have metal golem people everywhere
just stop

>>51112436
One's a magic man with a hand mortar that shits thunder and lightning. The other is "Look at me, I'm McCree." Not much flavor overlap either.

>>51110707
You could refluff it as a homonculus for the Alchemist.

Overall, there's not nearly enough variety for Alchemist, and gunsmith seems a little extra good then the norm to me.

If you've given your players control of a golem as part of a puzzle, would they be able to cast Spider Climb on it, to take the golem woth them to the next floor of the dungeon?

Basically, does Spider Climb work on a stone golem?

>>51111067
Have giant eagle robot. either have it drop them from above or you can do so while riding it.

Artificer is fucking brilliant.
I don't know how they've done this.
I'm usually very skeptical about this sort of stuff

>Some potions that can be used every minute, because fuck this short rest stuff
>It doesn't needlessly fuck about with crafting rules, gives you magic items at certain levels instead
>Alchemist's main method of attacking is throwing fucking acid and fire everywhere
>Fucking Int

I think the attunement stuff is kinda silly, though. And level 5 is kind useless unless your DM is throwing lots of attunement stuff, yet level 6 is powerful. Why? It should be level 6's feature at level 5 and level 5's feature at level 6.

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>yfw Artificer is L I T E R A L L Y a Gadgeteer from Wizardry

>>51112552
The pet at six is fine. You're not going to spend a whole lot of time at five as a straight class, but the pet being higher in levels makes multiclassing to abuse a robot dinosaur a little harder.

I really love the Artificer. However the spell progression just feels a little too slow even though it's on par with the other third casters.

>>51111307
It's probably a holdover from theorycrafting 3.xe. 5e can't nearly be theorycrafted as well.
Fucking actually play a game you retards.

>>51112229
The barbarian is unlikely to pick up Warcaster just to make your character not suck.

>>51112588
There aren't enough other multiclass benefits to warrant it.
Level 5 is when the main powerspike should be, really, and avoiding that is just awkward.

>>51112552
Actually, now I look at it, gunsmith is just various forms of 'you do damage!' it's nicer than fighter and I like the at-willness, but..

Alchemist is way better. Having no real limit to how many potions you can pull out is great, even if some can only be used on a particular person every long rest or only once a minute. Just hope the DM doesn't allow you to dispense free healing to the world by endlessly pulling out healing potions.

>>51112552

No man, it's not that good. It's a start, but it's a mess. Why does this class need spell slots? Can't they just shove the 1/3 caster into a subclass? A little more variety with the potions would be nice. Why does the gun have to be elemental, why a thunder cannon? Why can't I just make a generic magic gun that shoots generic magic bullets? Why a God damn robot?

Seeing all of you people praise the Artificer and I'm sitting here thinking it's really, really unfinished is unsettling me.

>Giant Spider as your Mechanical Servant
>shooting metal webs out of its robutt and crawling up walls while you throw potions or shoot a gun all day

>>51112641
Actual 3.5 theorycrafting rarely focused on numbers unless it was a low-tier class that couldn't do anything else. Usually it was about the maximum amount of versatility and team benefit.

>>51112658
You're a caster because you use magic in the creation of your magical devices. They're not purely mechanical. You need to cast magic to make this shit.

Their spells are all utility-based as well. The class doesn't need spells to do its job (damage), but it's a nice bonus that underscores your being a kind of magical MacGyver who has a creative solution for every problem and also frees up the other casters in your party to use their slots on big CC and nukes instead of fucking around with the environment.

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>Gunsmith 3/Fighter 5 can use the Attack action to fire the thunder cannon for 5d6 damage, use their bonus action to reload, and then use the second attack of their Attack action for 10d6 damage per turn

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>>51111887
Dis double nigga with his knock off shit
>>51111814
Accept no substitute

>>51112658
The 3.5 artificer had its own sub system called infusions that had slots up to level 6. Infusions took 1 minute or more to cast unless you spent an action point (like the hero points variant). This version is trading off 6 levels of infusions that have to be pre-cast for 4 levels of spells that can be done in a normal amount of time. That seems fair and fits the old feel of the class.

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>>51112753

>>51112725

You don't need spell slots to work with magic. Look at the totem barbarian and, to a lesser extent, the thief rogue. The spell slots seem to have been inserted into the class rather ham-fistedly, as if it was a case of "oh, of course it's supposed to have spell slots," which I can only imagine is a case of it being historically accurate (since I've never played any earlier editions). It just doesn't strike me as right.

>>51112743
False. Using any of the gun's special features does not use the Attack action; it's a different action altogether. You could only pull off two shots with Action Surge.

>>51112743
Maybe if you intentionally misread how the ability works.

The special abilities are not using the Attack action to make Extra Attack function.

>>51112743
Oh, it's tied to class level unlike cantrips, nvm

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>Alchemist
>doesn't benefit from the Alchemist feat except for +1 int because healing draught is not even an actual potion
I mean I can see a considerable amount of DMs allowing you to use the feature with the draught, but man, Wizards don't even try or bother to check their own previously-released materials, do they?

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>>51112743
That's objectively wrong you double nigger. Thunder Monger special attack is it's own action. Here's your (you).

>>51112777
What part of "magic item crafting" don't you understand
It is a basic feature of the class

>>51112797
You're surprised that an old UA wasn't considered the writing of a newer UA?

>>51112658
You need spellcasting per RAW to make magical items through alternate crafting rules.

And it only makes sense if you make magical items that you'd know magic.

You can always refluff the robot as some similar servant or refluff the gun slightly. That's not hard to talk out with your DM. What would be hard to talk out with your DM is core mechanical features or the like, which are already down there.

>>51112778
>>51112791
Oh, the big shot is its own action.

Still, you could use the regular attack with extra attack, for the first 2d6 ranged weapon, right... but then, no ability modifier.

>>51112542
Yes. Spider Climb affects a willing creature you touch, and constructs are creatures.

Don't give your players powerful tools that are only to be used for a single encounter or puzzle. They will figure out how to hold onto it for the whole campaign.

>>51112766

That's sorta what I thought. That's real unfortunate then. I feel like I'm going to end up hating the Artificer no matter what then.

>>51112812
Not even that guy, but stop trying to fit in that hard and go back to 1d4chan/reddit.

I'm new to the system so don't really understand number crunching and theory crafting.

Can someone compare Artificer with Matthew Mercer's Gunslinger.

Obviously one is Fighter based and way more play tested but still.

>>51112846
It explodes when it leaves the dungeon. Whatever magic powers it was tied to that place and once removed its core overloads and detonates.

>>51112887
Artificers double as skill monkeys, healers, and utility casters. Mercer's Gunslinger just shoots shit.

>>51112887
Gunslinger is a ranged weapon Fighter.
Alchemist is a cantrip Wizard.

>>51112873
It has all the markings of the Eberron artificer. You have to like that setting's concept of the artificer. It's not a mundane tinkerer. Eberron was all about magic that took the place of technology, and the artificer is that concept in PC form.

>Well gee the order of the immortal is so broken, it can deal 5d10 of damage by spending 5 of its 25 psy points on his only attack at 10th level, so fucking broken
>Oh, look at this balanced Artificer who deals 7d6+Dex at range per turn at the same level, so balanced

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>>51112921

I'm still fairly new to D&D, so I don't know anything about Eberron. I do like the idea of a guy with, for lack of a better term, a hextech rifle doing adventurer stuff.

Like this guy, right here. But with a rifle.

>>51112896
Revivify. Mending. Embedding a piece of the floor inside the golem so that it technically never leaves that location. If those fail, just take over the location and make it your home base. Player characters will fight for their possessions more tenaciously than they will fight for loved ones.

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>>51112830
Well, they should. Yeah, it's for "playtesting" only but all of it more or less intended to get into the game in some form, at some point. If you don't look back at what you've done before before and how it could possibly interract (or vice versa, lack synergy), then what's the fucking point? Players are not some magical gnomes that will do everything for you and point out every hole in the rules.
Just admit they're being lazy.

>>51113010
You might need to accept that the UA for feats didn't go over well, and that's why they aren't designing around it.

>>51113027
>You might need to accept that the UA for feats didn't go over well
Is that true? Why?

>>51112397
Real talk though I would've liked a less overtly magical alchemist. The "magic bag that always has exactly what you need but it disappears if you don't immediately use it" feels like a cop-out.

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>everyone keeps talking about robot dinosaurs
>when it literally says "but it can look however you like"

So...homunculi waifus?

>>51113046

The feats were all pretty much shit. A couple of flavorful ideas, but they were really poorly designed.

>>51113076
>A couple of flavorful ideas, but they were really poorly designed.
>flavorful
>Gourmand Feat
I see what you did there.

>>51112998
3.5 put a lot of control in player's hands. It had rules for everything, including crafting for almost every single item and how much treasure one should have at any given level.

Eberron was the first setting made explicitly for 3.5, and it took a bunch of those rules to their logical conclusion.

It was so easy to mass-produce low level magic items that the setting assumed people would make a lot of conveniences for themselves. That heavily influenced the politics and economy of the world. The artificer was a specialist in using the crafting and wealth assumptions of 3.5, and this UA version has a lot of the iconic resulting abilities of the 3.5 artificer without all the minutiae of 3.5 crafting to worry about.

>>51109633

Looks like you were wrong...

New class entirely.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/artificer

>Artificier
>No specific crafting rules

Thank fucking god

>>51111391
That's never been how a 5ft radius works. If something is not covering roughly half the area of the square it doesn't count as occupying the square. That top circle targets, at most, 5 squares, not 9.

>>51111067
I'd say the opposite. The gunsmith gives the class a MAD weakness (even if dex is the best stat in the game). Anything worth hitting will be hard to hit. Anything reliably hittable would probably die faster from fire splash. 40d8 healing for a party of four is respectable, especially since you can front load 10d8 once before the battle. Dex is also a pretty good save to target against a lot of the big dangerous baddies.

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>>51113074
>homunculi waifus
>posts a high level vampire cleric from a not-D&D system made up for a single web/light novel
Here, let me fix your mistake.

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>>51113074
Aw yes!
Also am I the only one that wanted some Artificer only spells?

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>>51113074
>Not a homunculi miniature version of your PC

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>>51113074
>Your waifu is Large sized and attacks enemies with her razor sharp maw of teeth

>Mechanical horse
>Rifle
Mysterious Stranger here I GO!

>>51113267
RAW it only has stats of a large sized beast.

>>51113187
Literally everything you just complained about was already in that picture. What was the point of saying that?
What do you think the colored tiles are meant to indicate? Obviously the dark pink is "hit for sure" and that light pink is your "at most, 5".

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>>51113267
>yfw it doesn't have to be large sized since it can look like whatever you want

>>51113298
fuck, so I can't have a webmaster spider waifu?

>>51113298
Now, what is the smartest beast we can get?

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>>51113322
But you can, you can make it look like WHATEVER you WANT. It just has to have features like wings if it can fly.

>>51113340
I think ape has 6.

>>51113298
>It can look however you like, as long its form is appropiate for its stadistics

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>>51113312
>it doesn't have to be large sized since it can look like whatever you want
BATTLE
LOLIS

>>51113115

I see. Thanks for the insight. I don't think the Artificer is for me.

>>51113312
Game statistics include size. If it stops being large it stops being mechanically identical.

>>51109606
Why the fuck even have classes? Just do a free-form chargen system.

How concentration works with infuse magic?

>>51113408
The character that activates the infused item concentrates on the spell.

>>51113376
Isn't size part of its statistics?

>>51113312
>>51113298
>Select a Large beast with a challenge rating of 2 or less. The servant uses that beast’s game statistics, but it can look however you like, as long as its form is appropriate for its statistics.
Since when are it's attack and size not part of it's statistics?

>Servant doesn't scale with your level
into the trash it goes

>>51109720
FIREBALL

>>51113432
that kinda makes me upset, though. Why does the creature have to be Large? So you couldn't make a cute little mechanical crab familiar, or even something as large as a robot dog? That seems kinda bullshit to me.

>>51113395
>>51113432
Alright alright, guess size is counted among things you can't change. But you can always ask your GM to fluff it anyway. I'm actually not really sure why it has to be a large beast specifically, I'm sure nothing bad can come from ignoring that rule and just making it a CR 2 creature or less instead.

>Beast Ranger/Artificer Gunsmith
>giant bear pet
>bear mechanical servant
>pet wears mechanical servant as armor
>bolt your thundercannon on powerbear
>give powerbear a scarf with Enlarge/Reduce cast on it
>Enlarge increases size of equipment (the power armor) and weapons (your gun)
>Huge Power Armor Bear with Thunder Cannon with 20 Strength and advantage on all Strength checks taking up a 3x3 area

>>51113494
>CR 2 or less of Large size or smaller
Unless their intention was to say that the mechanics are unrefined and bulky so it's not possible to make really tiny, delicate mechanical parts.

>>51111298
newfags can't triforce

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The robot thing is the only part I don't like.

But it does open up the possibility of becoming A Boy and his Blob

>>51113540
Honestly it kinda irritates me that the mechanical beast is part of the base class and not a subclass instead, that way it can be expanded upon.

>>51113508
Have Magic Science gone too far?

>>51113461
Magic items. Infuse it/items with FIREBALL or other suicidal spells.

CR 2 Large beasts

Allosaurus (MM)
Aurochs (VGM)
Cave Bear (MM)
Giant Ant (ToB 3pp)
Giant Boar (MM)
Giant Constrictor Snake (MM)
Hunter Shark (MM)
Plesiosaurus (MM)
Polar Bear (MM)
Rhinoceros (MM)
Saber-Toothed Tiger (MM)

>>51113593
Their spell list doesn't have Fireball...

>>51113620
which one is the strongest?

>>51113569
It's very easy, Anon.
>play an Artificer
>take the RR Beast Conclave as your archetype
>put Multiattack back in because you're a single attack class

>>51113651
Allosaurus.
https://5egmegaanon.github.io/5etools/bestiary.html#Allosaurus
Tankier but does less damage than the Cave Bear.

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>>51113650
You know what to do. It's time to multiclass.

I really like the artificer cause you can dip a single level in it and get a rifle, how is that note dope as fuck

I'm thinking up a backstory of a recluse librarian turned wizard and I can't think of how he would learn his magic skills to begin with and be level 3 before he left his town to go adventuring. I was thinking of having him discover a spell book and start studying it or maybe a trader came by and he bought it with his life savings or something. Anyone else have any advice?

>>51113712
>when you cast AN ARTIFICER SPELL

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>>51113620
>you can make a fucking Allosaurus but you can't make a robot cat

>>51113540
Well considering we all are thinking about Eberon when Artificer is mentioned and Warforged is a thing there I doubt that.

>>51113651
>>51113620

Looking at these the Allosaurus and Sabertooth Tiger get the best stuff getting good stats and can knock prone on a charge

>>51113723
Jesus christ kill me Anon, just lay me down gently and put me to rest.

>>51113734
>we all are thinking about Eberon when Artificer is mentioned
Yeah, well, you're all chumps. It works just fine in Forgotten Realms.

>>51113724
Crag cat is an awesome cr1 large cat.

>>51113763
yeah, but I mean like a cat sized cat
a housecat, just robotic

>everyone from fucking Cormyr and Amn knows what a goddamn Crag Cat and Allosaur are
for fuck's sake stop

Can you infuse multiple spells into an item, or is it considered 'magical' once you've infused one spell into it?

Otherwise you could make your mechanical servant be able to do shit like Levitate, Turn Invisible, and Enlarge at will.

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>>51113620
>pick hunter shark
>pick a cart
>strap your robo shark to the cart
>still should technically has blood frenzy for FREE advantages

>>51113793
>Artificier

While I do agree it'd take a bit of justification, it's not very hard to imagine that the Mega Nerd that is Artificier wouldn't have seen some obscure research journal's illustration of an Allosaurus and be like

"Yeah I'll make that."