/btg/ Battletech General!

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>>51012126
PART TWO!: -

Field Manual Comstar.PDF
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ja3z2n1goe12623/Field_Manual_Comstar.PDF
8604 - The Spider and the Wolf
https://www.mediafire.com/?3d9brfrkj9vnhka
Aerotech 2 - Revised
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ivqhzog2wyoegxo/Battletech_35011_-_Aerotech_2_Revised.pdf

hexpacks 2&3:
Battletech Hexpacks
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3o59kirzzz6znac/BattleTech_Hexpacks.7z
also introbox stuff:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/l22yrlkk9buzuzl/BattleTech_Intro_Box_Set.7z

Historical War of 3039
https://www.scribd.com/doc/23569748/35014-Historical-War-of-3039

Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries is coming, set during the Third Succession War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz8Y1V8gy1A&feature=youtu.be

Heavy Metal Archive (OLD)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8so68gbw3yga4cb/2016-12-11_HeavyMetal-Archive-OLD.rar

Fan made TRO 3063:
battletechreader.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-fan-made-technical-readout-3063.html
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/8o30486fony5f/Fan_TRO_3063

... also Butte Hold

>>51011580 #
Not really about powergaming, but what's fun.

>>51011591 #
The painting and tactics guide says the Cyclops is Davion.

>>51011633 #
I'll try them all. We're going to play with mixed mech forces. Lore wise the centralized state focus of the Liaos and the opposite independence minded provincial Mariks look the most interesting.

>>51012225
>Not really about powergaming, but what's fun.
>Sorry, I didn't mean "best faction" in an objective sense but with regards to vehicle selection

A Davionista in the making, I see.

>>51012520
Stop shitposting. You'll push away new players and that's the last thing the game needs.

>>51012225
>Not really about powergaming, but what's fun.
Lots of mechs are fun. That ends up entirely depending on your playstyle, which I doubt you have a handle on just yet, having just started and all. Experiement, see what you like, then get back to us later with more information and we can direct you better (ex. if you like jumpy mechs with lots of close range guns, like the Grasshopper, we can give you more of those).

>The painting and tactics guide says the Cyclops is Davion.
The Cyclops is technically a Cameron mech, but they're not covered by that book due to being dead and all. Suffice to say that everyone has Cyclopses but the faction that is far and away most identified with them are the Capellans. That book is just wrong on this one.

>I'll try them all. We're going to play with mixed mech forces. Lore wise the centralized state focus of the Liaos and the opposite independence minded provincial Mariks look the most interesting.
The lore will be spoken to by someone else, but generally the Capellans are one of the bad guy factions. If you're ok with that, then House Liao may be where its at for you. I'd prepare to lose a lot in canon and have crappy fluffy mech selection for most eras of play (as a bad guy faction, the Capellans get shit on a lot and just don't have great selection for fluffy play).

>>51011131
Also note that for most units in BT, camo is kinda like Space Marine camo from 40K: more for heraldry and identification rather than for actual camouflage. Given the sheer number of ways to detect a large hunk of metal (MAD sensors, heat signatures, even EM...), maintaining visual camo is the first thing to go. This may not be the case for specialized stealth units that have ways to defeat conventional sensors, like 'mechs with stealth armor, ECM, null/void sig systems, etc.

Most commanders will slap on a color close enough to their environment, if they're not using parade/faction colors, and call that camo.

Now, this is largely only true for 'mechs, vees, and aero assets, but infantry will still maintain camo.

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>>51012779
A Cameron mech? Like Star League?

What all mechs in the box are Cameron ones?

I'm kind of enjoying this little guy with the flashlight on his head.

>>51013024
>A Cameron mech? Like Star League?
Yes.

>What all mechs in the box are Cameron ones?
Functionally all of them.

>I'm kind of enjoying this little guy with the flashlight on his head.
That is a Vindicator, one of the few in that box that is primarily *not* a Cameron mech (Panthers and Dragons are the other big ones, being Draconis mechs). Vindis are Liao mechs and are a lot of fun.

>>51012779
>I'd prepare to lose a lot in canon and have crappy fluffy mech selection for most eras of play (as a bad guy faction, the Capellans get shit on a lot and just don't have great selection for fluffy play).

Speaking of things that are just wrong...

>>51013888

I guess for fluff he's kinda right from the '20s to 3052 or so and unit selection is right for the 3050-at least 3055 where they got left behind pretty bad.

But suffering for unit selection and lore is personified by the Dracs and FWL.

>>51014042
>FWL
Their original designs are hit and miss in the 50s, but they did have lots of good variants.
The dracs and post-LGR FWL are just hosed, though

>>51014392
They had some of the best variants of the 55t Trio as well, which is a big deal considering how prevalent they were in the 20s and 30s. LLs everywhere, so nice.

>>51014455
That's also true. They're just better at improving other people's designs than starting from scratch, I guess

>>51014498
Fuck you the Hector is awesome.

>>51014042
I know FWL has some lemons that stick out, but overall they've always had a wide selection of good mechs. Maybe not outstanding or gausswall mechs, but good options to choose from to make excellent lances and companies.

>>51014545
Well, they've got the Cicada, Orion and Awesome.

The Awesome's, well, awesome, but everything else seems to define 'only okay'.

>>51014545
They really, really don't. Standout FWL Mechs - Awesome, Spider, Hunchback (kinda), Wraith

>>51014653
They get some bitching mechs come 3145. Juliano, Carronade, and Gambit all come to mind.

Albatross is an awesome heavy.

memes aside, I unironically like the albatross

>>51014653
Orion is a workhorse and I know I'll be hated but not my cup of tea, it's a fat trooper that may live one more turn of beating with out dishing much more damage.

The cicada is pretty terribad imho.

Awesome is well as said above.

>>51014750
>Juliano

Fragile and low damage, unless you're using quirks, in which case it's a terrifying 24 and you need 3 hits to cause a PSR. The short range would be scary except you're too fragile to last there.

>Carronade
Actually good, although it could use Stealth armor to stand up to the Tian Zong.

>Gambit
Meh.

>doesn't mention the Quasimodo
Now THIS is a jewel.

>>51014705
They do.
Their early selection alone includes:
>All Bugs, Flea, Spider, Cicada, Hermes II, Vulcan, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Wolverine M, Quickdraw, Rifleman, Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer, Warhammer, Guillotine, Marauder, Orion, Thug,Awesome, Goliath, Battlemaster, Stalker, etc

If you can't make a good lance out of that, the shortcoming is with you.

Are they all outstanding? No. But they're good mechs that together can form good units.

>>51014885
Mechs that everyone gets aren't FWL mechs.

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Is the Atlas edgy?

>>51014752
Oddly enough, the Cappies get the good 20s Cicada with a PPC and Machine Gun knees. That thing is a terror. A PPC going 7/11 in the 20s is a nightmare.

>>51015017
That is true, they have that one, but over all not a hot mech.

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Will Battletech move past the Dark Age ever?

>>51014834
Gambit is a Jenner with quirks that make it better at Jennering.

>>51015219
Aren't they claiming to do so with next TRO?

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>>51015319
idk. Can I get a source?

>>51015353
I think I read it in a few BTGs ago. Sorry for that high quality citation.

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>>51015406
Eh, if it'll happen we'll probably notice it.

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>>51015353
>>51015430

>>51015057
The 50s upgrade was hot garbage, and yeah, the "lol 40t Locust" base model is a bit of a joke. I guess it at least has more internal structure than a Locust...

>>51014545
>>51014392

The bigger problem is that a lot of the good stuff they get in the 3050s are export models that get thrown right back at them by everyone else.

>>51015219

Maybe? The next big plot book is ilClan and it's supposed to come out this year.

And every year since like 2013 or some shit, so I'll believe it when I see it.

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>>51015017
Gotta love the Cicada.

>>51016607
>Units firing ADA Missiles may make no other secondary attacks against other ground targets.

Xotl, explain this bullshit.

>>51017126
Ah shit, didn't mean to quote

>>51017126
>Units firing ADA Missiles may make no other secondary attacks against other ground targets


IIRC if you're making normal weapon attacks against aerospace units, you can't make secondary ground attacks either. Forbidding ADA missile fire and ground-level attacks is actually consistent with the normal ground to air weapon rules.

You can fire up, or along the ground. Not both.

>>51017264
Still, why can't my multi-kiloton naval vessel shoot at two different things

>>51017351

Because fuck you, and fuck logic.

This is BT.

>>51017351
I would bet that if you asked, they'd probably issue errata sounding something like "any unit with multiple gunners can fire at both air and ground targets in a single turn"

>>51017351

Because in Battletech, AEGIS is a warship class, not a fire-control system.

Also, because >>51017449

>>51014995
In it's spare time it's the mech for an anime teenage protagonist, or the ride of some bishie character in a JRPG.

>>51015017
Wasn't the big gun Cicada supposed to have been really rare/in limited service?

>>51018809

Yes. All variants are less common than the stock versions.

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>>51018809
According to the fluff I'm familiar with, the Capellans only had a few of them, and they were relegated to being training machines and not used on the front lines at all.

I actually used it as the basis for a 50s Capellan Cicada variant when we were talking about AU House military organization and how we wished they had been set up pre-Clan Invasion. I pointed out that the Capellans had a love affair with the AC/20 that seemed to get tossed out randomly in favor of the Gauss Rifle, which is odd given the Thunder being a major development for them, and their L variant of the Urbie.

>>51015319
No, the next source book
Maybe they will release a TRO too, but nothing was announced

>>51014937
The topic was selection, not exclusives.

>>51014042
>>51015017
What are the Liao mechs for the early setting besides the Vindicator and Cicada then?
I'm guessing the big Atlas isn't one of them.

>>51020402

>What are the Liao mechs for the early setting besides the Vindicator and Cicada then?

Everyone has a lot of Bugs and Archers. The Unseen are available to everyone too.

Other than that, UrbanMech, Raven, Catapult, Striker, and Victor are all pretty well tied to the Cappies. The Dracs unloaded a bunch of Chargers onto them that they refit as well.

Basically anyone can have pretty much anything from TR 3039, it's just that certain designs are more closely linked to certain Houses. Real exclusivity mainly comes later.

Though even then you can lol Deth Kommandoes and steal everything any way.

>>51020402
They manufacture the Locust, Stinger, Raven, Vindicator, Wolverine, Rifleman, Thunderbolt, Cataphract, Victor, and Highlander.

In addition they have loads of Catapults compared to other factions. Plus the Clint, Grasshopper, JagerMech and Cyclops wouldn't be surprising to find with their forces.

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>>51012126
>Ugly Mech Edition

I think the one in the middle is supposed to be a Flea, but it looks more like an AT-ST to me.

>>51017595
I want this now. Fei's gear is now an Atlas.

>>51020885

I thought the Capellans lost their Thunderbolt manufacturer and were getting theirs from the Taurians?

>>51021913
>Flea
>AT-ST
Like they're not the same thing. Also that's a new pic from that one guy for me, so~ neat!

>>51020885
There's at least one point where they don't manufacture the Victor or the Highlander, they can only go up to heavies.

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>>51023133
>Also that's a new pic from that one guy for me, so~ neat!

In the words of W. Hudson, "If you liked that, yer gonna *love* this!"

>>51024250

Well, they were never really manufacturing Highlanders any way, just refurbishing them.

>>51023050

There's some Taurian guy who loves saying that but they had a line right through the 4th SW and had plenty in stock any way. If they were importing large numbers the logical place to look would be the FWL.

>>51023050
>I thought the Capellans lost their Thunderbolt manufacturer
They only lost that in the 4sw (unless you're the 'only MW 1e is canon' guy we get sometimes)
>and were getting theirs from the Taurians?
3039 mentions very occasional importation of *Griffins* from the TC, not thuds

>>51024465
>>51024722

It surprises me the Taurians, or any Periphery Nation for that matters, make anything worth selling to a Great House.

Even a desperate one.

>>51024962
The largest Periphery states have manufacturing capabilities that come close to the Confederation. Not terribly surprising. Taurians are easily the biggest, followed by the Magistracy, and both have more than sufficient resources for a not-insignificant amount of military manufacturing and supply.

>>51025028

But is any of it even worth a crud on the field technology wise?

I don't recall the Taurians, Canopians or any other Periphery Realm ever benefiting from the discovery of the Helm Memory Core in the years after it's discovery.

The books also make it seem like a lot of what they produce and field (pre Xin Sheng or Trinity Alliance) is junk.

>>51025028
There wasn't much of a mech tech gap between the periphery and great houses in 3025.

>>51025145
>The books also make it seem like a lot of what they produce and field (pre Xin Sheng or Trinity Alliance) is junk.
That's true of the magistracy, which was all bugs and shads all the time, but the TC's range of designs was on par with the inner sphere in terms of quality of base chassis

>>51025028
>>51025145
Did you know that In the 50s, pre xin sheng magic, the TC was actually fielding slightly more mechs in it's house units than the CC was?
The CapCon was laughably poorly off before coleman magic'd it back into power

>>51025434
>The CapCon was laughably poorly off before coleman magic'd it back into power
Shit like this is why I told new anon that the CapCon was weaksauce. Don't know why no one believed me, they're worse off than a Periphery state.

>>51025434
>the TC was actually fielding slightly more mechs in it's house units than the CC was?

Not by any actual canon numbers it wasn't. Medron's delusions aren't a canon source.

>>51025488

I thought even the diminished Capellan Confederation was still far above any Periphery nation?

>>51027309
Their military was still twice the size of the TC, it's just that the difference was made up entirely of mercenaries.
Their manufacturing in the 50s was trash, their economy was on the brink of utter collapse, and their military was green and unreliable. Literally the only thing they had going for them pre-coleman was the Big MAC, who were unfailingly badass even in the most dire of times

>>51027517

The Big Mac also had better mechs than the rest of the Confederation given Archibalds trading company didn't they?

>>51027641
>The Big Mac also had better mechs than the rest of the Confederation given Archibalds trading company didn't they?
Yep. They were engaged in wholesale importation of mechs from the FWL, TC, to a lesser extent lyrans and drwcs, and even (through intermediaries) the Suns, rather than living on a diet of vindiators, cataphracts and bugs like the rest of the CCAF

>>51027786

That's one thing I like about the Big Mac.

They can make the best of a bad situation.


>>51027786

>living on a diet of vindiators, cataphracts and bugs like the rest of the CCAF

Could they even still produce things like Archers, Crusaders, Warhammers and the like by the time the Suns got done with them?

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BLACKJACKED

>>51028054
Looks like there were no (known) Archer or Whammy factories in CapCon pre-Helm.

Their SW-era production includes:

Ares: (Bergan Industries)
Locust
Stinger

Asuncion: (Kallon Industries, lost to FWL 2SW and recaptured; lost again 3SW)
Crusader

Bernardo: (Kallon Industries, lost to FWL 2SW)
Crusader

Betelgeuse: (Hellespont Industrials)
Cataphract (post-4SW)
other production? (listed as 'mech manufacturer in earlier eras, but no specific designs named)

Capella: (Ceres Metals Industries)
Vindicator (developed between 1SW and 2SW)

Carver V: (unknown manufacturer; captured by FWL 2953, destroyed by raids by 2968)
Atlas
Victor
other heavy and/or assault 'mechs?

Corey: (Hollis Industries; destroyed 1SW)
BattleMaster
Catapult
Xanthos

Exedor: (Confederation Defense Corporation; destroyed 2SW)
Firebee

Grand Base: (Earthwerks Inc.)
Cataphract (post-4SW)
Stinger
other production? (largest Earthwerks facility in 3025? just making Stingers?)

Menke: (StarCorps)
Emperor (unclear when production stopped)

Nanking: (Kallon Industries)
Rifleman (possibly also produced at other facilities that were later destroyed)

Sian: (Hellespont Industrials)
Raven (developed just in time for 4SW)
Wasp

St. Ives: (StarCorps Industries)
Pillager (unclear when production stopped)

Styk: (Tao 'MechWorks; lost to FS 4SW)
unknown production (before being gutted by the defenders)
Victor (after capture by FS)

Tikonov: (Earthwerks Incorporated; captured by FS 4SW)
Cataphract (developed just in time to be captured)
Griffin (source is pre-SW, no mention in any later-era source; production line destroyed by raiding?)
Koschei (discontinued due to advanced components? though they could have just gone back to the introtech model; maybe that line got bombed too?)
Thug (another victim of the disappearing Tikonov production disease)
Thunderbolt

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>>51015017
How the fuck do leg-mounted weapons fire when the thing is running around?
Or I guess I should say, how do they fire in the intended direction, let alone hit what you were aiming for?

>>51030097
I have to assume they are on some kind of gimbal mount attached to the joint? That's what it looks like on the knees of the Viking, and the hips of the Perseus in the art at least.

>>51029800

Relying on Sarna for production means you're in for a real bad time.

>>51027517

Taurianposter loves multiplying the TDF's regiments by a quarter to account for its oversized units but for some strange reason doesn't take into account Cappie units always including a command Lance, some of them being reinforced regiments, or the unlisted Death Commandos who at the time had expanded to at least a Battalion in strength. A lot of their merc units were so close to being House commands there was no functional difference, one of the few things about Xin Sheng that made any sense.

The CCAF's morale was dire but they're still larger than the TDF

>>51027309

They were.

Anyone who thinks the Taurians would have put up a stiffer defence if Hanse had decided to gift Melissa the Taurian Concordat would have been in for a rude shock.

ComStar would have laughed themselves silly instead of interfering too, so even that would have gone better for the Suns.

>>51030431

>Lance

*Company.

Time for some coffee.

>>51030431
>Relying on Sarna for production means you're in for a real bad time.

It's not like there's any other way to do it aside from going through - literally - 50 sourcebooks one by one.

Shit, not even CGL actually has that sort of info, and certainly nothing actually organized or spreadsheeted.

>>51030431
>>51030495
>going through - literally - 50 sourcebooks one by one

105, actually.

>>51030495
>>51030518
I wonder if I could get a job at CGL just consolidating and cataloging all the information that's out there.

>>51030530
You'd get a list of contradictions. It's not worth the effort.

>>51030546

But the production info isn't just needed, it's necessary.

>>51030431

>The CCAF's morale was dire

I thought it improved enough for them to beat back the Anduriens and Canopians and enough for them to become utter fanatics?

>>51030546
anon I am an accountant
staring at spreadsheets of numbers that don't agree is what I do already

>>51030624
but working for CGL would be that but you don't get paid because someone took the money to buy a new porch

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>>51030662
I still can't believe they just swept that under the rug and acted like nothing happened.

Still, it might be worth it doing something I could almost enjoy? I dunno.

Which reminds me, I'm supposed to be finishing our close instead of browsing /btg/ and thinking about battletech.

>>51030624
Don't do it because you want a job with them. Do it as a project to show everyone what lazy assholes they ultimately are.

>>51030495

CGL does have the info, but a certain chunk of it is wishful thinking or outright wrong. There have been a variety of fan efforts to consolidate it over the years, some even by current authors and fact-checkers. Canon stuff like the Objectives series make very little sense either, production lines that weren't even on planets that got hit in the Jihad randomly disappear, ones that were supposed to have been wrecked don't, and so on.

>>51030530

It's how MadCap got his job. Make of that what you will.

>>51030601

It's something I'd like for various reasons like AUs, campaigns ("go raid Planet X for spare parts needed by 'Mech Y, and grab any production runs of it that are there while you're at it") but, in a rare show of sympathy for CGL, I'll say I understand why they don't. Not only can the authors not get the information right to begin with, if they offer anything more than what units are built where the whole thing implodes due to FASAnomics. It's just not worth the effort from their end.

Besides, ilClan fucking *when?*

>>51030621
The fanaticism was mostly the Warrior houses. Lots of other units were questionable right up to xin sheng

>>51030431
Why don't you do the math and calculate what the CCAF's house units would total and we can compare. I don't think many of their post-4th SW units were reinforced, and the Death Commandos were mostly dead so not really at battalion strength.

>>51030783
>some even by current authors and fact-checkers. Canon stuff like the Objectives series make very little sense either, production lines that weren't even on planets that got hit in the Jihad randomly disappear, ones that were supposed to have been wrecked don't, and so on.
And they say Objective Raids was bad

>>51030431
>Anyone who thinks the Taurians would have put up a stiffer defence if Hanse had decided to gift Melissa the Taurian Concordat would have been in for a rude shock.

Why would you even say that when no one has said anything like that? Stop being an obnoxious shitposter trying to stir up trouble.

>>51030783
Yeah didn't the Technicron facility on Savannah get forgotten or something?

>>51026587
Actual canon figures do support that anon's post. Yelling "Medron" isn't an argument.

>>51025434
>>51030431
>>51030828
One other thing that makes this even more annoying is that units are often at 100% of paper strength, but the only sources we have for the 50s don't have that information

And you know what's another thing that REALLY grinds my gears? The various FMs not being set on the same year. It's incredibly frustrating

>>51030910
Yeah I know. I agree 100%.

For the sake of their debate, we'd have to just go on paper numbers I suppose.

>>51030621

I guess? It depends on what you look at.

The 20-Year Update and Invasion-era novels all left me with the impression that the CapCon was still suffering from at least Romano's purges if not Hopeless Battle Syndrome. It's one of the things I didn't like about Xin Sheng, that it flipped the switch between a feeble, fearful CCAF into an unstoppable juggernaut with unbreakable morale.

If they've walked that back in Brush Wars (I have it, I just mostly read Duncan't stuff and the Ronin War) then I can actually get behind it for doing something to reduce the retardation of Xin Sheng.

>>51030807

Everyone who's not a Merc or certain of the Warrior Houses is Reliable in 20YU.

>>51030828

I mentally replace "post-4th SW" with "3050 era" if that helps. Either way it doesn't appear that the CCAF expanded between the end of the 4th SW and 20YU; it actually seems they lost some House units between the two for whatever reasons.

>>51030863

Mea culpa. The basic point is that it was the FedSuns' finest hour and nobody was going to hold them back. If he'd targeted the Dracs or somehow been able to reach the FWL he would have broken them too.

>>51030989
>it actually seems they lost some House units between the two for whatever reasons.
Constant border skirmishes with st.ives. they also lost some guys between 50 and 54

>>51031052
Lost some guys the same way
Goddamnit, got cut off

>>51031065

It's OK, I meant to say "at least Reliable" but accidentally a few words too.

Even so there's units listed in the 4th SW Atlas that then don't show up for 20YU, and them being decommissioned to beef up other commands doesn't account for it either.

I don't imagine border skirmishes destroying regiments wholesale but I guess that's the only explanation we're ever going to get.

>>51031153

Maybe some defected or struck out to become Mercenaries?

Or perhaps they ran afoul of Romano when she was in a bad mood?

>>51031153
>I don't imagine border skirmishes destroying regiments wholesale
I imagine it would be more like
>send out battalion
>two companies get shot up
>repeat 3x
>regiment effectively gone
>disperse survivors to patch holes in other units that got shot up
This kills the regiment

But I bet there were also lots of merc units of ex-CCAF guys springing up in the 30s and 40s

>>51031192

Yeah but for something so serious you'd expect sourcebooks to mention that in 3038 she had all the members of the 1st Dipshit Irregulars lined up against a wall and shot then melted all their gear down because hahahaha fuck you.

Like, bitch was crazy but I have a hard time seeing that happening.

Do they mention what happens to a Death Commando's second mech should something happen to them?

Each Death Commando is said to have the option for a second mech so I'm curious what became of them after the commando's ill-fated actions at Kathil.

>>51031153
>and them being decommissioned to beef up other commands doesn't account for it either.
I think it might. Remember that the CC literally had NO mech production going from 30-35. Even normal losses from wear and pirate/periphery attacks, not to mention the canopian invasion would mean that you'd simply HAVE to dissolve units to replace losses

>>51030989
To sum up what happens in Brush Wars, basically Romano being fucking insane and refusing to be sane and not go all in fighting back delays the Andurien/MoC invasion long enough for the FWL to get its ass in gear and go after Andurien, who pulls out, and the resulting victory breaks Hopeless Battle Syndrome.

At least that's what I remember from reading it like a year ago.

>>51031336

>Do they mention what happens to a Death Commando's second mech should something happen to them?

Nope. It is a mystery.

Probably they both go back into the state armoury and is offered to any DCs who are about to finish training, then in descending order of units according to unit priority though.

That might be too logical for the Capellans. Maybe they fling them into Sian's sun because the only worthy pilot was the guy who just died and nobody else is worthy to touch them, until Sun-Tzu goes "You know what? That's fuckin' retarded, it's reformation time."

ALL HAIL CHANCELLOR COLEMAN! XIN SHENG! XING SHENG!

>>51031376

>I think it might. Remember that the CC literally had NO mech production going from 30-35

If that was ever correct it's been retconned now. They had other plants that weren't touched in the 4th SW.

>>51031425
If I recall, pre-4th SW, they weren't able to manufacture anything over 60 tons. Though, fluff being inconsistent is a Battletech staple, so... reliable as that is, I don't think that anon is correct in any way, or else he's citing lore that contradicts other lore, which again, is just begging for "pick and choose" type stuff or general confusion all around since the numbers will never match.

I think people might as well just go with what they want to believe at this point until they release a current SW-era book (likely given their releases thusfar) that details it. I kind of wish they would. Because some of the retcon stuff just makes it all more confusing.

>>51031425
>>51031549
20YU says something like that, but IIRC it was about one factory, that anon is probably thinking about that

>>51031549

Pre-4th they were at least building the Victor on St. Ives.

Retconned refurbs of the 90-ton Highlander now too.

>>51031746
I forgot about that Victor plant.

I normally mourn the loss of the BJ-3s when talking about the St. Ives thing, but that's because I'm kind of a fan of the Blackjack and don't care for the Victor too much. Always thought the CC even having it was strange to begin with.

>>51030989
What House units did they lose?

>>51031877
>but that's because I'm kind of a fan of the Blackjack
Same here. I'm kinda disappointed that there's no periphery source of the thing, because it really feels like a great machine for out there, in militas and minor state armies

>>51030989
I respect the acknowledgment, I just think the point is unnecessary. No one is arguing against that, they seem to simply be observing how relatively weak the post 4th war CCAF was.

>>51032039
I mean, it's not like adding a factory for the thing to the TC or MoC would change or unbalance anything
But in any case, the thing was originally designed for a job that would have it mostly deployed in the periphery, and the major periphery states all border the major users of the thing in the IS, so plenty of them turning up in the periphery is reasonable anyhow

>>51032187
>it's not like adding a factory for the thing to the TC or MoC would change or unbalance anything

It would give the Periphery something resembling nice. That's not permitted until the Great Capellan Shafting of 3058.

>>51032218
>That's not permitted until the Great Capellan Shafting of 3058.
3060, you mean. 3058 was the last year the periphery was allowed anything nice *without* sucking somebody's dick, so the confusion is understandable

>>51030097
Gyro stabilization, it's not just a thing for the mech itself. It's the same reason a modern MBT can keep the main gun on a target while running over rough terrain.

>>51032318
It's on the god damn legs

>>51032259

Trinity Alliance was signed in 3058, bruh.

>>51032370
Have you seen footage of the Abrams going flat out on shitty terrain while targeting something? The end of the cannon stays rock steady, while auto-bouncing something like five feet in elevation to pull it off. Now do this with sufficiently advanced technology.

>>51032491
anon I want you to strap some glocks to your knees and take off running

>>51032187
>>51032218
Considering the Davions are the only state not disgusted by the thing, it'd make sense. At any rare they are easy to get since anyone would trade cold cash for one in a heartbeat given its rep.

>>51032517
and i want a webm of that

>>51032517
I don't think my knees work the same as a 75 ton mech, anon.

>>51032517
shit I forgot the rest of my post
tie some strings around the triggers so you can fire but you have to aim with your knees and you can't stop

>>51032542
the plantigrade walkers would be pretty similar

>>51032570
I don't have gyrostabilized kneecaps, unless that's what the kids are into these days.

>>51032517
Yes, because strapping a pistol to someone's leg accurately models the targeting system of a modern heavy weapon, never mind one with the bullshit tech the fluff assigns to BT hardware... Here's your (you), I'm done with you.

>>51032423
Where was this retconned? FM:P says the TC signed on in 62, while the MoC operated a different deal starting in 58 (which itself directly retconned P2E),

>>51032318
>>51032491

Got you one better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYI6gOc-3vQ

>>51032598
Anon, the supposed advanced targeting systems in mechs are capable of missing with alarming frequency at fairly close ranges.
>>51032585
I'm imagining a gun on one of those stabilized camera mounts they use for filming movies. That'd be kind of funny to see mounted on a mech to that kind of scale. It'd be like Forest Gump with his leg splints, only they've got little machine guns too.

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>>51032657
You must be new here, here's the only reasonable idea presented to date to explain BT weapons ranges and accuracy being utter garbage compared to modern systems.

>>51032750
>ECM so powerful that it shortens the weapons being used by a factor of several hundred.

Pilot would be crispy but this is Battletech so hey future tech!

>>51032770
Didn't say it was a flawless idea, just a reasonable one.

>>51032750
In-lore? Sure. Most of us with common sense know that the average player doesn't have the 8'x8' table that'd be needed to play if the weapons had realistic ranges, so it's a bit bemusing when one of those folks who rage about the weapon ranges shows up. It's all literally for game balance and logistical purposes. Though, again, I do like that fluff reasoning. It falls in line with the rest of the magical bullshit that is tech in the 31st century.

>>51032804

I prefer armour so magical you have to hit dead on or the shot bounces off/laser heat is dissipated/etc. Actual ranges are longer but hitting from beyond the listed bands in such a way that you get worthwhile damage is such a pain in the ass that nobody bothers.

BT armour may as well be made from mithril and forged by elves under moonlight for how effective it is, after all.

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>>51032750
>Jam harder.

>>51032890
>BT armour may as well be made from mithril and forged by elves under moonlight for how effective it is, after all.
Unless, of course, you fall over

>>51032861
Well yeah, the IRL reason for the weapons ranges is to facilitate mech fights on a single mapsheet. When you're trying that, unless the hexes are more like 300 meters across, the ranges are gonna be unreasonably short compared to real weapons. And if the hexes were that big, the mechs would be moving way too damn fast.

>>51032890
>mech trips on rock
>falls down
>Mechwarrior's family gets letter saying their child died in battle and no body was recovered.
>because it fell.

>>51032750
Oh, I'm not complaining about it. I just like to poke fun at it is all.

Is there any way to salvage the basic xen shong/trinity alliance crap into something not shit that still returns the CapCon to the position of actually being able to play in the major leagues?

>>51033102
Yes. REMOVE COLEMAN. You know you want to be the One, anon, I can feel the hate within you. Let your anger flow.

>>51032601

HB:MPS.

For once, everything on the sarna page is cited:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trinity_Alliance

>>51033102

Maybe if events play out over 20-30 years longer than they did in canon.

That's about the only way.

>>51033102

Not really, no. The Capcon was so far gone prior to the Xin Sheng movement that it shouldn't have existed as a state at all. It was only crippling authorial fiat which made the Davions (and maybe the FWL) <not> conquer the entire House. It's not like the Cappies could have stopped them.

The only quasi-realistic solution would have been to effectively retcon away the <entire> Fourth Succession War so the Capcon wasn't in that position in the first place. And at that point, you're at a complete reboot of the universe anyway, so it's not rationally on the table.

Coleman pulled stuff completely out of his as to undeservedly up-jump the Capcon, yes. However, essentially nothing short of that would have restored the Capcon to relevance prior to the 3100s anyway, and realistically they would have ceased to be a major power and would have either balkanized or been wiped out by their neighbors.

>>51033333

Honestly, the Marik - Liao marriage actually happening and the CapCon becoming the newest and most obnoxious voice in Parliament would've been the most reasonable possibility. Instead, we got Xin Sheng'd.

>>51032861
For your information I have an 8' by 6' table with croupiers ready for realistic ranges.
Just nobody else to play with. :(

>>51032890
Well, considering BT armour ablates instead of deflects, it's already far into the realm of magical nonsense.

>>51033102
>trinity alliance
Going from something I suggested to something like this question, I would say yeah, sorta.
So say in 3056-ish, candice liao contacts the leaders of the TC and MoC, proposing an anti-capcon triple alliance.
In 58-59, she calls them back up, to get their support for her planned coup to retake the CC
There's an offer, StarCorps Detroit plus general good tech if they back her play.
In 59, with periphery assistance (the TC's only job is to hold down the MAC so they don't interfere, and the MoC's job is to respond to any attempted FWL-fuckery and/or back up the TDF). She succedes, St.Ives gladly rejoins, the FedSuns are happy with this result. From 59-67, the CapCon rebuilds, even to almost as good as it was in the SL, since it has neighbors who want to trade instead of hating them. Come the jihad, everything goes as sour as it did for everyone else, of course, but the CapCon gets to have some non-wank good times, no coleman needed

>>51034570

I think she needs to do it earlier than 3058, otherwise she runs into Sun-Tzu, Thomas, and Katherine having enough votes in the SL to stop it by deploying SL peacekeepers.

Just have it be something she does at the end of the BoK trilogy, she had enough support to whack Romano and Sun-Tzu was at the time believed to be worse.

Giving him any JUST AS PLANNED time as Chancellor pretty much fucks any chance of stopping the Xin Sheng rape train.

>>51035514
You've got a good point. In the older, non-trinity version of the idea, the coup went off in 53. Only reason I moved it later was on account of the TC's leader afore 56 wouldn't have gone for it in a million years, though now that I think about it, moving his fatal stroke a few years back, maybe even to 3051-ish (on the basis of "oh Jesus the SLDF is back and they're gonna reunification war everyone all over again" wouldn't cause any issue at all.
Good point. Yeah, that'd work just fine

>>51035751

She doesn't need outside support though.

Ion Rush and several other high-ranking Capellans helped smuggle her from St. Ives to Sian so she could personally kill Romano Liao.

Sun-Tzu showed all the signs of being more insane than his mother and was regarded as a far worse prospect for the Confederation.

In canon, Candace just doesn't want the Confederation because reasons and leaves Sun-Tzu in charge because reasons.

All she has to do is claim the throne after killing Romano and it's hers.

Anyone else think it's weird that, for all the FWL is supposed to be fractious, the FS and LC have way more issues with sub-states going off script? George Hasek is practically running his own great house for a while, ffs.

>>51036003

Those states usually just attack the neighbours and, since that's usually the FS attacking the Dracs or Capellans and Skye going after the FWL. Which is something the larger state usually wants to do any way, and usually winds up with them smacking the neighbours around and providing plausible deniability.

Meanwhile when FWL states go off-script, they attack the FWL.

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So my lore is a big spotty post Great Refusal but, does Kurita ever get to a point where they are not so totalitarian and mustache twirling?

I love the idea of bushido styled mechwarriors but I don't like the idea of them consistently being "the evil empire".

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>>51036262

>So my lore is a big spotty post Great Refusal but, does Kurita ever get to a point where they are not so totalitarian and mustache twirling?

I was hoping that their House Book would unfuck them the way the Capellan book did for its faction, but they doubled down on all the old retardation. The Combine is taken over by the Black Dragons from like 3072 on with no sign of that abating in the Dark Age.

There's even a civil war looming between the Black Dragon Kanrei and the Coordinator in the most recent stuff but the Kanrei is holding most of the cards there. The Coordinator might win but it's gonna come at a cost and from what we've seen every time the Black Dragons lose it turns out they've won harder than could be possibly imagined and now hold even more positions of power.

>>51033333
Brush Wars does have a throwaway bit about how Focht and Victor, in their omnipotence, could have defeated a FWL invasion of the CapCon after the Andurien war "using tactics similar to those Theodore Kurita used in the war of 3039".

I can only assume they meant letting the CCAF get btfo on every planet until the FWLM got bored and went home.

>>51034570
The only flaw I see is either periphery state being able to do the tasks assigned. The TDF is the best periphery military, but the Big Mac is a tall order to swallow when you haven't seen a lot of regiment on regiment combat in a while. And the MAF is too light, poorly educated and poorly led to bother the FWLM. The Free Worlds Legions and Orloff Grenadiers would swat any MAF force down.

Also this >>51035514

>>51036098
Until the Jihad, not really. The Anduriens went after Capellans, Zion declared independence because fears of Capellans, and even in Jihad mode the Sirians seemingly went after Skye.
Honestly it's more surprising the FWL went seven and a half centuries without secession. Granted it's WizKids fault because CGL had to do a story to reconcile things with the Derp Age maps, but the silly dissolving of the League was one of the more annoying and poorly done plots of the Jihad.

>>51037359

I guess I was thinking a bit more broadly with "attack" there than just straight military action.

The disloyal sectors of the FWL were pretty gung-ho about limiting the powers of the Captain-General and the ability of the FWL at large to make them do anything, and pursued those in ways that weakened the FWL as a whole.

>>51037320

>the Big Mac is a tall order to swallow when you haven't seen a lot of regiment on regiment combat in a while

Also, and not to put too fine a point on it, but if Hansen's Roughriders are able to shit on the TDF at their best I don't imagine it would go well for them against a larger, better equipped, and more skilled mercenary command.

>>51036317
Capellans have been shit since they became SPAAAACE CHIIIINKS

>>51037493
Oh sure. That was half the sadness about the League dying. I loved the parliamentary and province v. federal debate and politicking that went on.

>>51037513
>Also, and not to put too fine a point on it, but if Hansen's Roughriders are able to shit on the TDF at their best
To be fair, that was with literal medron pryde magic, so there's that.
But it would probably take most (like 2/3) of the TDF to hold the big mac down in a fight, though in the scenerio presented there wouldn't really be any reason for a fight to happen; all that would be needed would be to tell archie McCarrion that candice won't fuck the MAC around when whe takes over. It isn't like they were personally loyal to romanio or sunny-t in the 50s or anything

>>51037513
>>51037833
And to add, there was a bit of a leadership difference between the 3050s and 3060s Concordat. Plus a tech gap between the Roughriders of the 3069 era and Big Mac of the mid 50s. And a good portion of the TDF was already dead or shrekt by the time the Roughriders waged their mini-war.

>>51038131

Big MAC of the 3050s are still going to be a lot more upgraded than the TDF at the same time, and a fair portion of the morons who got the TC into trouble are field commanders then too.

I'd expect it to be an even bigger cluster-fuck for the Concordat, really.

Not that it needs to come up at all, as I said here: >>51035943. The CapCon at the end of BoK where Candace goes to Sian is hers the second she wanted it. Which was arguably the case from the end of the 4th SW on, the Suns could have finished them off after 3-5 years to recover from the 4th SW themselves.

>>51038208
>where Candace goes to Sian is hers the second she wanted it

Candace best Liao. In fact, I'd have a lot less trouble accepting the Canopian/Capellan Friendship of the Century if it were Candace as the Chancellor instead of Romano.

And by Romano I meant Sun-Tzu. Well, an insane apple doesn't fall far from the insane tree.

>>51033333
To be honest, not quite so. The primary reason that no other state, even the FedSuns, would invade the CapCom is it would weaken them putting that much materiel and manpower into sufficiently breaking their military spirit, not to mention post-war occupation, that it would weaken their borders and bring them into a position of potentially getting conquered themselves by another large power. FedSuns invade CC, wipe it out, occupy? Well congrats, now you've got the Dracs crossing the border and raising hell. Meanwhile you've got a significant portion of your military strength too far to do anything about it, which may also in turn get hit by another power, willing to take you on in your attrition'ed-out state.

Another secondary reason would be due to the fact that the Liaos are *batshit insane*. Romano and Maximillian Liao were completely off the reservation. Sun-Tzu wasn't exactly helping the case there. Considering the kind of iron-fisted hold they maintain on the state, similar to how China and the DRPK are today, they'd readily press civvies into militia service. That basically means any military commander responsible for the invasion would be required to recreate the Kentares massacre again -- not something any would be willing to do. Given the kind of fanaticism that the Confederation instills and demands from it's people, it's a likely outcome.

>>51039503
> they'd readily press civvies into militia service

This actually happened in the 4th Succession War, which explains how the Davions killed 100 million people.

>>51039503

I'm not sure press-ganging people into service would work all that well.

On the one hand, BT as a setting basically requires that to fail no matter what.

On the other hand the Suns were being enthusiastically welcomed as liberators by the Capellans in the 4th SW, so it's hard to imagine them fighting hard in the defence of their worlds. Most likely it turns out arming large sections of the population who are nursing a grudge is a REALLY BAD idea and the militias just execute the heirarchy and then surrender to the Suns.

The Dracs are worse than useless at the time. All you'd need is 10 regiments on that border and something shiny to distract Takashi, just like last time. Theodore can't do shit and got stomped by the Lyrans and way.

>>51039863
>On the other hand the Suns were being enthusiastically welcomed as liberators by the Capellans in the 4th SW

um, no

heh, easy mistake to make

do you forget guerrero?

the *Capellans* were being welcomed as liberators from the FedCom yoke

>>51039883

During Xin Sheng, yes. Completely out of the blue and at exactly the same time the CapCon became the best at pretty much everything, especially JUST AS PLANNED.

During the 4th SW, no. And in the early 3050s, the place was a fearful shit-hole. Servitors were rarely better off than chattel slaves, and Romano was brutally purging anyone who didn't kowtow to her insanity fast enough.

Which in turn makes the CCAF going all 1337 and invincible even more bullshit, it should have taken at least a generation to rebuild the training centres, never mind the officer corps she was churning through the whole time.

>>51039883
the only sources we get in the 4th sw are fedcom cronies so their word can't be taken seriously

the fact that when liao forces return the people rise up for them proves banzai's atlas on the 4th war was propaganda

don't fall for it

>>51039863
It doesn't have to work. Look at the Imperial Guard in 40K, mirrors of past infantry actions like the old trench warfare times of WWI. Thousands of people, press-ganged into service, barely given any training, some simple equipment, and pointed in the direction of the enemy and given a kick in the ass.

Yes, tons of attrition on that side, but it's a massive roadblock and still a wall of guns that any invading force has to chew through, suffering losses of their own, which will also affect morale from both just massive amounts of killing, not to mention from having to target civilians.

>>51040008
meant for >>51039951

>>51037584

It's almost like the FWL is the only interesting Inner Sphere faction in the game because they're the only one that's not treated as monolithic.

There's a reason the CC started to suck when they went "its just China, mmkay?"

>>51040387
Exactly. The League actually breaking apart was tens times more boring than the internal squabbles.

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>>51039737
>>>/trash/

>>51033102

The best solution would have been a re-tooling of the state to where it was not something that either the FWL or FS would have WANTED to invade, and then let it recover at a natural pace instead of the Xin Sheng absurdity.

Basically, Candace Liao gets in charge, or someone like her who is a liberal reformer and able to set up the CapCon as a buffer state similar to Rasalhague and just waits it out, possibly using the Jihad or such to steal back territory - or just expanding into the periphery more.

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>>51039737
>>51040817

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBU5M6HVNSg

>>51040774

It doesn't make much sense from any member states point of view. The big prize in the FWL should be trying to take control of parliament.

The issue there, and what I consider the major issue with Battletech fluff, is the frozen political situation due to the nonsense noble family angle tacked on. I know a lot of people think this is iconic but its pretty moronic how difficult it is for any state to get a leader who isn't "main last name here". Its especially silly in states like the FWL where the Captain-General is just a job - its hilarious how the fluff contorts itself to somehow prove that when someone of not the right family takes over everything is automatically shit due to magic (see Taurian Concordat, non-Marik FWL Captain Generals, non-Kuritans in DC history). Perhaps the pinnacle of this absurdity is the Outworlds Alliance having a hereditary President.

One almost thinks the writers actually believe that these bloodlines somehow give magical space leader powers. Its nonsense in the states that aren't traditional nobility, and in the ones that are, its common for noble families and dynasties to shift over time.

So a Marik is always going to be Captain-General, because the writers can't be arsed to come up with more than a handful of names, and we are robbed of the chance to see a bunch of different factions vie for the position over time.

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>>51040817
>>51040855
I love me some Urbie.

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>>51039737
>>51040817
>>51040855
>>51040913
Why is the UrbanMech so based/memetic?

>>51037320
>Orloff Grenadiers

Don't even need the Legions. Scourge of the Periphery, coming through.

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>>51040944
Also, is that story true?

>>51040944
The same reason people loved little Bumblebee from the first gen transformers. It's little, cute, underpowered and did I mention cute?
I seem to recall some BT story somewhere in which a Panther, two bugs and an Urbie took down an Atlas in a city setting. I forget where I read that, but I think it was on one of those early side publications. We need more Urbie stories.

>>51040944
>>51040965

Huh, I didn't realize NEA posted on GITP.

And yes, it's true. The guy who did it is a regular here.

Sunderer (A) or Grand Titan?

>>51041453
Grand Titan, but that's because I'm a BURD HARD player

>>51041527

Random question for BURDs.

My love for light mechs and hit and run tends to draw me towards Kurita, but BURD has the best fluff - which provinces/regiments/organizations in BURD can do such tactics well? Or are light mechs made obsolete by tanks and infantry?

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>>51041894
>which provinces/regiments/organizations in BURD can do such tactics well

The 5th Oriente Hussars. Get your ass to Sierra, hombre.

Hey just about to start a campaign is this a balanced fore list?

PCs
36 Battlemechs
16 Vehicles
6 Aerospace Fighters
All pilots are Veteran to Elite with a few Regular pilots in there.

OpFor
72 Mechs
48 Vehicles
18 Aerospace Fighters
The Vehicles are almost all Green with a few Regular pilots
The Aerospace assets are a mixture of Regular and Veteran, mostly Regular though.
The Mechs are mostly Regular with a few Veteran and even less Elites.
The PCs are the Attackers so they won't be facing these forces all at once and can engage where they need to. The OpFor is a mixture of planetary militia, mercs, and House troops so they won't all play nicely all the time. Do these seem like fair odds?

Also some of my players frequent /BTG/ so I can't get too specific without giving away everything in the campaign.

>>51041894
>>51041959

The Oriente Hussars in general since most big mechs go to the Fusiliers.

>>51042194
The 3:1 ratio in aerospace worries me, it would be very easy for the OpFor to toast the PC's squadron and then they'd have air superiority, which is Not Good

>>51042194
2 to 1 mech odds
4 to 1 tank odds
3 to 1 aero odds
Yeah the PCs are in for some hell. The aero challenge could end the game before it really gets going.

>>51042303
>>51042288
At least one squadron is garrisoned in the Capital pretty much at all times. The Planetary Governor is a bit of a coward, and wants to make sure that he will survive no matter what so a company of Mechs and squadron of Aerospace fighters is almost always attached to the Capital. The Mech company has some of the best pilots and equipment.

>>51042194
Forgot to include that the PCs have a sister battalion and a regiment of House Troops to call on for aid if need be. These two groups are doing their own thing but if the situation is dire they can be called in for assistance.

>>51042194

It's impossible to say without things like rough weight classes, tech levels, and BV spreads. I get that you need opsec, but there simply isn't enough information there to even BEGIN to guess.

Something like this level of detail is pretty much required:

Campaign Date: approx 3055
Planned common engagement size: approx company-level
>PCs
3 Medium lances (avg 180 tons, all TW tech), approx 5000 BV each
2 Heavy Lances (avg 250 tons, all IntroTech), approx 5000 BV each
2 Heavy Lances (avg 275 tons, all TW tech), approx 7000 BV each
1 Assault lance (avg 360 tons, 50% TW 50% IntroTech), approx 7500 BV each
All pilots are vet or elite; not accounted for in BV estimates

>OPFOR
4 Light lances (avg 120 tons, all IntroTech), approx 3200 BV each
4 Medium lances (avg 180 tons, all IntroTech), approx 4000 BV each
3 Medium lances (avg 180 tons, all TW tech), approx 5000 BV each
2 heavy lances (avg 250 tons, all TW tech), approx 6000 BV each
3 heavy lances (avg 260 tons, all IntroTech), approx 5500 BV each
1 Assault lance (avg 320 tons, all TW tech), approx 8000 BV each
1 Assault lance (avg 360 tons, all IntroTech), approx 7000 BV each
All pilots are Regular or Vet, not accounted for in BV calcs

I can look at that and say, yeah, if you're going to do mostly company-level engagements, that's going to be generally balanced in slight favor of the PCs (which is usually the goal). That means both forces are likely to have a rough parity between Intro and TW-level tech. The PCs will likely field a force of approximately 17,000 BV in a given engagement, while the OPFOR is likely to field a force of somewhere around 15,000 BV (between 13,700 BV and 18,000 BV). This means that the PC's higher piloting skill levels *should* provide the necessary edge to ensure PCs will do well in the campaign, but they're going to suffer losses and still have the potential to lose scenarios if they don't play well.

>>51042361
I would recommend swapping some of the ASFs out for conventional fighters to reduce the threat level

>>51042515
That makes a lot of sense for the Militia air support.

>>51042506
>cont
>fuck post character counts

The one thing that tremendously worries me is the 3-to-1 advantage in ASFs on the part of the OPFOR. I don't know how well you as a GM can handle ASFs, but that has the potential to be absolutely murderous. Assume the OPFOR devotes 2 squadrons to completely wipe out the PCs air support. They are then going to have 1 full and (likely) 1 polygot squadron with which they're going to have *air supremacy*. That's really, really, not good.

Frankly, I don't know how much agency the PCs have, but their first mission needs to be to hit an OPFOR aerodrome and fuck up the OPFOR fighters on the ground. The potential for completely gutting the PCs is strongest in the OPFOR air wing.

Fun fact, ASFs can do high-level bombing raids where they're totally out of range of ground fire, while carrying thermobaric weapons. Since it's their planet, they can do it over and over and over again until they get lucky...since if they have air supremacy and are bombing from altitude 10, it's not like the PC have *any* way of stopping them.

>>51040008
Makes sense.

>>51042506
Okay I'll need a moment to figure out all the BV numbers and I left my specific mech notes at home like an idiot.

As for ASF I am shit. Like total trash I've seen ASF been run before and well I got lost on the gross and finer points. Two of my players have some idea how to run ASF so they have a significant advantage. Oh and you, NEA, know half of my players and painted a level III for one of them. So you have a better idea of how they play, their skill level, and such. Trying not to name drop and shit but seemed relevant if you're giving me advice.

>>51040008
>the only sources we get in the 4th sw are fedcom cronies so their word can't be taken seriously

This is why we can't have actual discussions on these sorts of topics. Everything is a biased source. Whether in-character bias or bias on the part of the authors, there are NO authoritative sources on anything.

>>51042677

OK, is this Reigien or one of the DV brothers (use 1 for the DoG handle, 2 for the other)? Once I know, I'll take it to PMs on the appropriate website where your players can't eavesdrop.

IIRC, the gentleman I painted a Level III for moved recently, and since I know people both in where he was and where (I thought) he was going, that's why I have to narrow it down.

>>51042768
Ah didn't know you painted more than one Level III in recent history. I'm the pro Lyran DV, aka the one who didn't murder some tech crews. Thanks I appreciate the help.

You know what BattleTech needs, without which the entire game line is utterly worthless and should be scrapped? Novels. Novels. Novels, novels. How else would I know what some ancillary character is thinking when they see Victor plowing his fifth princess in 10 years without them?

>>51042768
You painted my ComStar L3, NEA, and I haven't moved recently. I'm one of the players in otheranon's campaign.

>>51042995

OK, I was thinking of somebody else. WoB Level III commission. The gentleman moved to Columbus recently, which is why I had to clear that up.

>>51042864

PM sent over on CincyBT. Sorry for the confusion; one of the downsides of everyone having Anon as their handle.

And yeah, since it's you guys, I'm reasonably certain that you aren't going to go full-on ASF abuse (which the thermobaric example certainly was, or like hooking up drone piloting rigs to excess ASFs or conventionals, and deliberately crashing them into PC Mechs at Velocity 10+ would be).

Everyone else, apologies for the minor thread derail. Please keep offering the man advice as you see fit.

>>51043106
>The gentleman moved to Columbus recently
Another man with good taste: Columbus *and* WoB. Well done.

>>51042361
What weight are your PC's fighters? That would help a lot to know what they were up against as well.

>>51040907
Good point about parliament being the prize. The League breaking makes no sense because they're joined in the interest of common defense and whatnot.

As for the magic bloodlines, I suppose it's more cultural. Having one of those last names definitely doesn't guarantee the wearer skill.

>>51041894
2nd Oriente Hussars off the top of my head.

Purple burds, what's your favorite Marik Militia regiment?

Asking because they seem the unsung workhorse brigade of the FWLM.

>>51044059
I liked the 20th, but they got given to the RotS.

>>51044059
6th. Can't believe they died off screen in such a dumb way.

>>51043769
PCs have a mix of Meds and Heavies. The enemy fighters will be mostly Meds with a couple of Lights and Heavies. I'm also probably going to use some conventional fighters in place of ASFs for the militia because that makes more sense as >>51042515 said.

>>51044283
>PCs have a mix of Meds and Heavies. The enemy fighters will be mostly Meds with a couple of Lights and Heavies. I'm also probably going to use some conventional fighters in place of ASFs for the militia because that makes more sense as >>51042515 said.
Probably a good idea. So... Sparrowhawks or Seydlitzes for lights?

>>51044332
Haha probably. I might throw in some dumb but fun stuff in there too, I have a soft spot for the Cheetah. I'm tempted to throw in a pair of MechBusters because who says that conventional fighters with green pilots can't be scary.

>>51044452
>MechBusters
And then you'll have that BATTLETECH!(TM) moment where a green pilot head caps someone's CO and the rage will fly.... Ha.

>>51044503
And I will apologize for nothing.

>>51044059

25th. DEUS VULT.

>>51043849

It doesn't and in a realistic world, they would change over time.

Or in an even more realistic world, the whole nobility nonsense wouldn't have to be pretzel-ed around to fit every single state and only be a thing for a couple or few of them.

what are some common mechs fit for militia duty?

In my mind I assume only bugs and urbanmechs would be allowed for militia service, since all the regular armies are always so hungry for more mechs.

>>51044880
A few older archers and crusaders for fire support would be logical, as might older or obscure mechs, or old, captured shit.
Basically stuff that is very common or that nobody else wants

>>51044880

Depends on the planet, really. Backwater shithole? Bugs for days. Solid industrial border world with a history of being invaded? You're probably going to see some proper mediums and heavies.

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What attracts people to play Kurita?

>>51044880
Lances of bugs, sprinkled with the occasional shadow hawk, archer, crusader, vulcan, hunchback, and chameleon.

Honestly, most militias should be mostly vehicles, especially 10 ton ppc carriers.

>>51045046

Masochism and weeaboo-itis.

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>>51045046
Creative advertising in their recruiting efforts.

>>51045114
>chameleon

>ppc carriers

Neglected by most players but they should be far more common.

>>51045046

Katanas and pedophillia.

For the latter, example A: >>51045168

>>51045114
>10 ton ppc carriers.
Stats? I've never heard of those before

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>>51045389

I think he means the 20-ton hover PPC carrier from HTP: Glengarry. I don't recall the stats perfectly, but it's something VERY close to pic related.

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>>51045389

He might be referring to the Heavy Weapons Carriers. 20 tons hovercraft, 8/12, carries a single PPC on a turret and enough armor to take 2 medium laser hits and croak. 553k c-bills a pop, or 445 BV. Fragile, but cheap and certainly effective in numbers. Think savannah master on steroids.

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>>51045389
Copied in the stats from HTP: Glengarry. Comes up with the right BV, costs more than listed in the book, and is a ton under weight. Anyone see what I'm missing?

Actually posted about it in the Errata forum over a year ago, but got no response.

It really is a nice little lightweight militia style harasser though.

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>>51045659
>Comes up with the right BV, costs more than listed in the book, and is a ton under weight. Anyone see what I'm missing?

Oooh, THAT'S why the one I built up in >>51045528 doesn't match up in cost or BV. The one from HTP:Glengarry is underweight by a ton, and I plowed that extra ton into armor. I was *wondering* why mine didn't match up to Sarna's BV entry.

Here's the direct screencap from the product. There's not a TRO entry for it, just a record sheet. So yeah, definitely a ton underweight.

As ludicrous as Xin Sheng is, why did the storyline even call for the events that lead to Xin Sheng anyway?

The war that devastated the Confederation, and fact Hanse was able to cripple them like he did, was no less ludicrous then Xin Sheng is.

>>51045731
Establishing the FedCom as a big deal

>>51033333

>realistically they would have ceased to be a major power and would have either balkanized or been wiped out by their neighbors.

If things were going by realism, I'm pretty sure the Sphere would be Clan dominated by now.

>>51045873

If we were going by realism we wouldn't be playing battletech.

>>51045731
The crippling of the Confederation in the 4th war was also a shame because it had a distinct culture and society that was ruined by the culturally monolithic arc of Xin Sheng.

Plus the pre-4th war CCAF had the most unique and colourful regiments of any successor state except the FWL.

I would have preferred something similar to Xin Sheng without the renaming everything Mandarin and the Han focus.

Maybe a Stalinist economic bent that sees the CCAF rebuilt through brute force rather than "lol we all love Sun Tzu now".

>>51046123

>Maybe a Stalinist economic bent that sees the CCAF rebuilt through brute force rather than "lol we all love Sun Tzu now".

I believe Romano did something similar.

From what I read, she began rebuilding the CCAF through force, though it had major impact in the civilian market given a large portion of the Confederation's output was military related for a period in her reign.

>>51046320
Yeah, I think it should have been what worked. Sun-Tzu should have doubled down on it and generated a USSR style economic and military boom.

The Chinese dick-sucking Coleman chose instead is dumb as hell. All that mistranslated garbage, the new ranks for no reason, the "almond eyes" bullshit we have to read about, the economy that literally can't do wrong, the intellectuals developing all sorts of stuff to bring the Confederation to the forefront, so much of it felt forced given their situation.

>>51046123
>Maybe a Stalinist economic bent that sees the CCAF rebuilt through brute force rather than "lol we all love Sun Tzu now".
Romanio tried that, it just fucked everything up and didn't help much

>>51046570
I'm just saying it working would have made more sense than Xin Sheng.

>>51045046

Panthers, Jenners and PPCs.

>>51046581
true

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>>51040984
>We need more Urbie stories.

If you have Battletechnology: The Lost Issues, there's a story about the Stalking Rhinos mercenary unit ("When You're Hot, You're Hot") that features four Urbanmechs taking on a Catapult.

Aside from the Urbie and Vindicator (and Raven and Cataphract, which I have follow up questions for) what are some quintessential CCAF mechs for the 3015 to 3052 period?
How about vehicles? (Might make an augmented force)

After the 4th Succession War did they continue to manufacture Ravens and Cataphracts or did those lines fall into Davion hands until Guerrero?
Did they design any other new mechs between the 4th Succession War and Sun-Tzu's ascension?

Did the Capellans allow House troops to "grandfather" mechs or do all theirs belong to the state?

Lastly, aerospace fighters. Did they lose lines for those in the 4th Succession War? Did their main three remain the Thrush, Transit and Transgressor?

Thank you in advance for any answers.

>>51047548

>did they continue to manufacture Ravens and Cataphracts or did those lines fall into Davion hands until Guerrero?

They eventually developed a new line for the Cataphract on Victoria or another world.

Why do you have so many questions regarding 3025-3060? Personally I am more interested in 2500-3025 and 3060-3150 since those 35 years were overdone and the many existing material about it is full of holes.

So yeah, I am really curious. Why are you still so interested in that small time frame?

>>51047572
Speaking of, how is engineering a brand new mech, the cataphract, any easier than just fixing the lines to produce marauders again?

>>51047548
>How about vehicles?
Vedettes, Po tanks, LRM and SRM carriers, the Brutus, I think the demolisher, some hovercraft, I forget which. In the mid-50s they add the Regulator, which is actually really good, and I think some sort of light tank?
Sorry, my memory for who exactly produces what vees is mediocre

>>51047548
Catapult C1. Even though they don't produce it, they had a stockpile of parts and machines all through the Succession Wars era, though by the 4th they were getting rare.

Wasp 1L. They had plenty of bugs, and the 1L was their take on the Wasp. SRM4 as the only weapon, no other changes.

Po tank. Manufactured from 3031 on, it's a major factor in restocking their forces, especially militia forces. It also sold vigorously to mercs and as an export item, so it made them a lot of much needed cash.

Charger CGR-1A5. A modification of the Drac Chargers they got from the Kapteyn Accords, making it a much more useful machine overall, but still not great by any stretch. Further fuel for my supposition that the Cappies loved AC/20s and should have had that as a signature weapon in the long run.

Blackjack, both the BJ-1 and BJ-3. The BJ-3 line is lost in the 4th SW/ St. Ives succession era, which was a big loss. The Cappies have a lot of Blackjacks because someone has to have them I guess, besides the Davions.

Cyclops. Everyone has a few, but they are the Cappie's favorite command ride, and they modified theirs a lot pre-Helm Core to be better at it.

They have quite a few other 'Mechs, but these are the ones people associate with the Confederation.

No info on the other stuff sadly, I'm only really versed at all in 'Mech lore/fluff.

>>51047548
>Did they design any other new mechs between the 4th Succession War and Sun-Tzu's ascension?
I believe the Thunder slightly predates sunny-T's reign

>>51047883

Well, for one the Cataphract could be less resource intensive to make.

Also, the Capellans needed a mech that could fulfill more than one role.

>>51047883
>>51047958
The reason is they lost their Marauder line, but had tons of parts for them laying around. The original Cataphracts were frankenmechs, built from spare parts by hand. It wasn't till later that they managed to make a line for them and begin actual manufacture.

>>51047958
What roles can a cataphract do that a marauder can't?

>>51047883
I think the real question is where are they getting these 280 engines?

>>51048004

Well, it can throw a punch for one.

>>51048102
Hand actuators are a really big deal and ever since I learned that years and years ago I've never removed them from designs unless the role absolutely doesn't require them, or the machine is crit-starved. They are just too useful to omit in good conscience.

>>51047999

>The reason is they lost their Marauder line

Then what is this nonesense about them not being able to build Marauders on their own?:

I read they had to acquire the design from General Motors in the Suns in exchange for allowing HildCo to export products to the Suns again.

>>51048112
>Hand actuators are a really big deal

Back before the Dark Age of Technology, my group frequently played another group (they called themselves the "Puppies of Purgatory") that would have mechs with both hands, and *inevitably*, their first stop across the board towards us would be a woods hex so they could uproot trees and carry them as clubs.

>>51048026
Maybe they had tooling for the engines, but weren't building any mechs that used them until the cataphract

>>51048026
Interestingly enough, the only 280 engine mechs that the Caps were able to make before the Cataphract are the Assassin and the Archer.

reminder that the clanner was best girl in MW4Mercs

>>51048331

I always liked Mags, desu.

>>51048163
It seems you're correct and I was under the false assumption that Ceres Arms was able to make the 3R in the early Introtech era. I know the original Cataphracts were made from Marauder parts, so that bit's true, but the source and reason for them having them is another issue. I suppose they could have had a plant making parts but incapable of making whole machines? Seems on par for them.

>>51048432
>I suppose they could have had a plant making parts but incapable of making whole machines? Seems on par for them.
I'm pretty sure that was the original fluff, yeah. Probably the line/stockpile they were using for their -3Ls

Would the Osts be better off at 55 tons than 60?
They're effectively mediums anyhow

>>51048817
With no jumpjets, 60 tons is better than 55 for payload at 5/8 SFE

>>51047940
Honestly I think for the era the -1A5 is pretty great.

>>51049344
Certainly a lot better than the other Capellan variant, the 1L. Though the 1L is kind of hilarious in a completely different way from the stock A1.

>>51045311
No, for the pedophilia see >>51043106

>>51045873
If we were being realistic, the Clans wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

>>51049609

Yes, as the Star League wouldn't have been undone in the first place.

>>51048817
You loose like half a ton of payload, but on the otherhand it IS better off in a meta sense because they aren't taking up spots on heavy RATs or weight class distributions

>>51049595

At some point, just to be different, are you planning on <not> being a cunt?

You know what? Post your face. I'd like to see you at Gencon this year.

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>>51047839

I'm gonna guess that it's grogs grogging groggily for the most part. If they're all you've got to play against, which sadly is often the case, they'll want to play in the 3025-ish time frame as much as possible and with sufficient arm-twisting might- *might*- agree to a game set in the 3050s every now and then but will steadfastly refuse to have anything to do with the Clans, or anything past Project Phoenix due to tech and appearance of the Unseen canonically changing at that time.

God knows it's what the grogs who are my only regular playing option locally are like.

>ORIENTE SCOT

Not sure wheteher Oriente or Skye are more horrified right now.

>>51049344
Yeah it's not bad. It's what you'd get if you stripped the JJs off the Victor, pretty much, which is ironic since the Cappies had Victors too.

Christ they had a lot of AC/20. Why did they go Gausswall again? So lame. Shoulda been missile/AIV 'Mechs with Stealth Armor and heavy hitters mixing it up with AC/20s and TAG. That would have been great.

>>51050308

>Why did they go Gausswall again?

Synergises better with mobile units like the Jinggau, synergises better with Stealth units like the Pillager and Cataphract, allows them to monster League players who have a limited array of GR designs, most of which are general on the MUL, and because the Suns Gausswall like mofos?

>>51050308
>Why did they go Gausswall again?
Because it's more optimal to go stealth gausswall than be interesting and fun on the table

>>51050345
Booooring. So boring. But fair. I still hate it though.

>>51047839
>Why do you have so many questions regarding 3025-3060?
Because it's the era with the most coverage. That, and about 80% of players got into battletech with stuff set in that general era

>>51050363
Sad truth here.

>>51050388
Agreeing with this. Regardless of your thoughts on that era, it's ultimately where more than half of your new players end up, and where more than half of the material and current fans center. So... it's kind of "the" spot time-wise. I mean they are so afraid of it that they are delaying new releases for fear of alienation. As someone that likes that era, that fact makes me sad. I don't know why grogs/anti-grogs can't understand that material existing for another era doesn't invalidate their own. IlClan will not erase the Succession Wars and make it illegal and punishable by death to use Introtech.

>>51049795
>implying it's only one person that remembers his pedophilia tendencies
>going to GenCon

>>51050724

What the shit are you even talking about?

>>51050959

NEA watched an anime called Strike witches, which is about teenage girls (witches) who use magical WW2-era aircraft fuselages strapped to their legs to defend earth from an alien invasion. And they don't wear pants while they do it. He thought the premise was neat and created a PDF supplement for a /tg-created RPG about the show.

Therefore, since he likes anime, he's a pedo.

>>51050959
Jesus Christ dude, he's an attention whore. 4chan is full of them. (You)atarians. Ignore them.

General rule of thumb: if someone says something that appears retarded, especially under the guise of being confrontational or off-the-cuff, they are probably looking for food. Starving them is the best policy so they go looking elsewhere. /pol/ is basically Golden Corral for them so I dunno why they ever leave.

>>51051035
>since he likes anime, he's a pedo.
lolwut

>>51051095

In my defense, this is 4chan. I thought it might be something that actually existed. I haven't been on Battletech generals all that long. With that said,

>>51051035

Are you fucking kidding me? Somebody likes something you don't like and your response is to call them a fucking pedo. I know this is 4chan, but jesus christ that's a new low for btg. The fact that your willing to stoop that far to assassinate someone's character is the most goddamn disgusting thing I think I've ever read on tg.

Goddamn, Enjoy your fucking (you), shitheel.

>enjoy your dying game. If people like you play it, I don't want to anymore
>I guess I'll go to the OF for a bit. The people there suck, but not like this

>>51051207

There's some edgelord who haunts these threads who is buttmad at Cincy in general and NEA in particular because he lost a game at GenCon. He hacked NEA's accounts and got CGL to fire him by leaking NDA'd info and making it appear NEA had done it.

This is actually, literally, without meming what it's all about.

>>51051035
>Therefore, since he likes anime, he's a pedo.
I like Fang of the Sun Dougram, which is where we get the art for the Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster and Goliath as well as I think others. I usually tend to avoid /a/. I'm more of a /m/ and /tg/ guy with my anime choices. Does that make me a pedo?
I never watched Strike Witches because it seemed too weird even for me.

>>51050256
...You DO remember that people who're new to this game start off with 3025 tech? They might want to know things about the setting during the era they're playing.

>>51051683

IME new players are quite amenable to using more advanced tech.

Certainly a hell of a lot more open to it than the grogs I play with.

Unfortunately newbies tend not to stick around due to the highly granular rule set and generally poor quality of miniatures.

>>51051207
It's literally just this one psychotic weirdo who straddles the line between shitposter and stalker

>>51051683
>>51051741
My experience is that new players start with 3025 and then generally gravitate to either 3050 or BMR(r) tech levels, very, very rarely do they venture into jihad+ tech, at least in the first few years.
This is probably an anomaly, but of all people those who are interested in the Taurians are the most interested in jihad and post-jihad tech on the table. I suspect TRO: 3085 is the reason

>>51051799
>but of all people those who are interested in the Taurians are the most interested in jihad and post-jihad tech on the table. I suspect TRO: 3085 is the reason
As a taurian fan, I love all their 3085 stuff and have a certain soft spot for their DA stuff, even if it's often full-retard.
It's just a big goddamn shame that there's no point where
>TC with weird and interesting designs
Intersects with
>TC not being full retard and fistfucked to death
But that's how it goes without a patron author

>>51051873

Maybe if your faction was more interesting you'd pick up a patron author.

Forget all this arguing about eras and animu; somebody tell me why the Hoplite has 16 SHS.

>>51052057
It was designed in anticipation of a SL LBX-20 that never panned out, and the redesign was overseen by a man who had been inferno'd and retained a pathological fear of excess heat even under the most dire of circumstances

>>51052108
That's almost crazy enough to make sense.

>>51052057
Just to make you ask that very question.

>>51052154
New thread.
Let's start anew.

>>51052108
>>51052136
The 4Cb does mount a GR at least. But also switches to DHS, so it still succeeds in being oversinked as hell, just in a non-wasteful way.

>>51052003
They should have focused on having sexy Latina characters.

>>51051873
The TC is pretty neato. The Magistracy is so boring, backwards and retarded I can't see why it was selected to be injected with hot fiat except the fact it's a matriachy and has that fetish following.