Warhammer Fantasy General

>>50842274
>>50809249
Last thread.

>>50842324
<3

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I seem to recall someone mentioning that, in old lore, daemonettes were made from the souls of elves that Slaanesh nabbed. Is that still a thing, was it ever a thing?

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How does he manage to be so perfect?

I actually love the really old models conceptually, and wish that GW would've released updated versions before ruining the game and irrevocably destroying the setting.

Question about the Monstrous Arcarnum- where are the points for the monsters taken from? Special? Rare? Or is it a new, separate category of 25/50%?

>>50842404
Like all the other waifus:
He's not real.

>>50842404
He's Gork on earth, and Gork > Mork as everyone knows (except grots).

>>50842404
'is head is the best for takin' a runed az.

>>50842414
Well, they are doing Made To Order.
So far its only been 40k and the six breasted Daemonettes, but Fantasy has to be eventually.

Somebody remembers the Dogs of War army book and the regiments of renown that came after it?

>>50842404
Gorbad Ironclaw could kick his arse and use his teef for loose change.


>Nuttin Archaon and leaving him alive
>Signs that GW is going towards capeshit bollocks

>>50842356
pretty sure that's warhammer 40k lore, where Slaanesh steals eldars (space elves) souls. It could be a thing in fantasy though, I haven't read up on it in a while

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>>50842466
Yes

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>>50842404
Real best character when?

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>>50842499

>>50842492
Slaanesh definitely tries to gobble elf souls in Fantasy too, I'm just not sure what it does with them.

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>tfw no tsundere dark elf waifu you nurse back from her crippling drug addiction

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>>50842515

>Bugman
>better than pic related

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>>50842404
Humiliated Archaon the Nuthin Personnel

>>50842538
His son fulfilled his Oath, he's not a Slayer anymore.

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>>50842538
>battle tiara

>>50842674
His son died, doing so, and he immediately took a new slayer oath.

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>>50842274
Skaven still the best

>>50842925
>greatest numbers
>best technology by far
>assassins that cut through plot armor
>everywhere in the world
>still buttslaves to archgayon

Skaven eternally cucked

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>>50842925
>this low-effort trolling

>>50842902
In Storm of Chaos?

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>>50842925
>Skaven
>best
>mfw

Which is the best Karak and why is it Karak Norn?

A Karak Kadrin is fine too.

Why would "Ill met in Bögenhafen" suggest that it is for characters halfway through their first career, when starting characters start at the end of their first career? Why not just say starting characters?

>>50843713
Their first career isn't finished as they haven't worked through all the Wounds and stat upgrades.
Anything other then having filled that out is less then finished.

What's a good source for the lore of Nehekhara? The stuff in WFRP is very sparse.

The bagash books, I guess.

>>50844216
He said Good

>>50844161
Lure of the Liche Lord
Tomb Kings book
Liber Necris

>>50842274
How dumb are Ogres actually supposed to be? I asked a few weeks ago whether an Ogre could be employed as a valet (ostensibly so the nobleman could ever have a formidable bodyguard who could join him on social occasions, but the ogre would take his job seriously). The consensus seemed to be that ogres are too dumb to pick out clothing or understand social niceties.

But then there's this quote from the Old World Bestiary on Rat Ogres.

“They’s not Ogres, not Ogres at all. Smell different. Tastes different too. Bad. Like all Skaven things, they tastes o’ rat. Had more’n one belly full o’ rat in me life enuff to knows. Oi, but they’s strong. Strong enough to sort one of us proper. Maybes how they got dat name? Thing is, tho, they’s stupid. I means real stupid, dumber than a Troll even. Keep dat in mind, maybe you can beat ‘em. Don’t run from ‘em, tho. They’s real quick on their feets.”

– Kroag, ogre Mercenary

This displays greater knowledge of the situation than most humans of the empire, memory of past engagements... I dunno. Makes them seem smarter than the drooling idiots I was made to believe.

>>50844260
Knowing things doesn't mean you're intelligent. Even if you're literally retarded, you will know all that shit if you had enough contact with skaven. You can be a fucking genious and never leave your city, so you would never know that skavens even exist. And you can be a retarded ogre mercenary who travelled quite a lot and know stuff about them.

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>mfw looking at the preview of the 9th age full rulebook with all the sweet illustrations

>>50844161
TK army books, and the one where Gotrek and Felix hang out with Khalida and kill vampires.

>>50844333
Retards generally cannot retain information like that.

guys keep it to one thread please
>>>50824777
:^)

>>50844260
Ogres are pretty dim, but have a range of intelligence. Ogre Kingdoms ones are the dumbest of their race, basically less lazy Orcs.

The smartest and most clever are Maneaters, who absorb the culture they are placed in.

Ostland also has a population of Ogre citizens, so they are at least intelligent enough to be low class Imperial.

One of the book series about a Bret nobleman has a woman and her Ogre bodyguard/father figure. He was fairly intelligent.

>>50844387
YES I crave more T9A.
OK are next?

>>50842902
Man, dwarfs can be annoying.
They fucking aren't capable of crossing a room without getting offended.

>>50844437
The idea of a noblewoman growing up in the stewardship of her ogre caretaker and steadily realizing he's too dumb to do much but he did the best he could is kinda sad.

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>>50844469
THA'S GOIN' IN THA' DAMMAZ KRON!

SNORRI, GO GET OKRI AN' TELL 'IM TA KILL AN UMGI SO I CAN STRIKE THIS OUT 'SOON AS I FINISH WRITIN' IT!

>>50844601
>le wacky dwarf

>>50844477
She got along fine, and had a Sabretusk for a childhood pet.

Better than being the son of an Elector Count.

>>50844618
I found it kinda humorous.

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>>50844618
>Wacky

HOW DARE YE, MY MOTHAH' WERE A SAINT!

>>50844387
Im p excited for the fluff book. I wanted to write a short story for the beast herds

>>50844260
Ogres to me never really looked and sounded all that dumber than humans, not to a too significant degree at least, more than to a natural characteristic I'd consider their minds a result of other influences: ogres live in smaller communities, meaning the social interactions and passage of knowledge will be minor and less formalised; ogres value strength more than reason because a strong ogre can and will get away with it, meaning they are not trained nor willful to reason when they can show their true value.

ogres lack mental training, instruction and the social context to develop these things, but otherwise they don't seem to lack the potential.
they are comparable with prehistoric humans for me.

>>50844681
Not to forget that in form Ogres are perfect, but the Old Ones never giften them a culture or environment.

They are the most "natural" race since they were never uplifted, only birthed from whatever base creature they share with Halflings.

Its possible the Giant culture or Cathay culture was the prototype for them.

>>50844737
>Ogres are perfect
were

do you think they didn't go through a serious bottleneck when the great maw struck?

>>50844768
Still perfect in form, its just their culture that is fucked.

But Maneaters are the hope Ogres can find their way.

Too bad GW made them the bland underlings of greenskins in AoS.

Is two cannons and an organ gun plus a unit of crossbows and a unit of fiflemen too much Dwarf dakka? I don't want to be cheesy.

Would adding Slayers help?

Anyone feel free to chime in on this for me.
I played in 2008-2010 7th edition. Didn't have that much of a scene in my town, had one or two people to play against.
Loved everything about the game
Where did it all go wrong?
Was the game in bad shape at this point?
I've recently read about this person, "Matt Ward" was his demons codex the turning point for fantasy?
Did this start a power creep arms race that continued into 8th edition and is fully realized with AOS?
If I wanted to get a local game group going, would banning everything after and including the daemon codex work well?
What other things would need to be addressed?
Is 8th really as bad and unbalanced as I've gathered?
I'm quite sure I'll never do any "end times" material

>>50845403
>Where did it all go wrong?
A little bit at a time but mostly the company about selling lore to use as the basis for your own canon and Your Dudes, became the company of selling you models and a specific hard cankn story.

Painting guides disappeared from the army books, characters were specific instead of beinh suggestions and templates, the community was replaced by marketing. Instead of the personal models and lore of Gav Thorpe and a guy who won at Games Day, you just had the Eavy Metal paintjob and the specific main characters of the army.

7e started it by pushing their narrative over yours.
>Was the game in bad shape at this point?
No, but the bad seeds were sprouting. Fantasy got less attention and GW focused on 40k.

>I've recently read about this person, "Matt Ward" was his demons codex the turning point for fantasy?
No. Ward is shit at writing rules and his 40k lore REALLY sucked, but the crunch wasn't a major problem here. Hate for Ward is mostly for 40k people. That being said, his Daemon ARMY BOOK (Codex is only in 40k) did suck. It just wasn't a huge problem.

>Did this start a power creep arms race that continued into 8th edition and is fully realized with AOS?
Power Creep was another problem in 40k and at the start of 7e. Before that, players were encouraged to roleplay and make up special rules. 7e tried to do a competitive format with scenarios as superfluous. AoS tried to bring back scenarios, but did it very poorly.
>If I wanted to get a local game group going, would banning everything after and including the daemon codex work well?
Every edition has faults. 7e Daemons sucked, and cannon sniping was bad. 8e Banner Lions were miserable too.
Either use T9A rules or just houserule until balanced.

>>50845614
>Is 8th really as bad and unbalanced as I've gathered?
There were problems, but it was mostly because they changed the core rules in a way that made many army options inferior or useless. This being after comp became more important than narrative, it was a huge problem. Some armies didn't even get an update at all, leaving them entirely reliant on rules nerfed into the ground.

Oh, and we were divided on the huge and multibuild kits. I like some, oldest players hate them all.

>I'm quite sure I'll never do any "end times" material
Most of us cherry pick what we like from it. Do what GW originally did, build your own Warhammer alternate universe based on a presented example.

>>50845638
One more thing; I really hate to say it, but they are doing good things in AoS. The competitive aspect is being put bsck to Your Dudes, community outreach, free painting guides on Youtube...its all good.

But the AoS lore is SUCH garbage, the models forit are so much overdesigned shit, and End Times was such a series of slaps to the face and kicks to the nethers that it doesn't fucking matter.

If tomorrow they made it so you could browse the site in Fantasy groupings of models and not the silly AoS renames and groupings, slapped a sticker on every box saying "Compatible with Warhammer Fantasy", put out a Facebook post that says "THE WARHAMMER WORLD WAS DESTROYED IN ONE UNIVERSE, BUT THE FIGHT GOES ON IN OTHERS!", gave an option at checkout to get either round or square bases, and gave us a sculpt of a model from classic artwork like Sisters Of Battle just got with the Blanche character it would bring some of us back. They wouldn't even have to bring back old models, just sell us what isn't squatted yet.

But never AoS.

>>50845403
>Where did it all go wrong?
7th to 8th, End Times was the final fuck you to everything

>Was the game in bad shape at this point?
Yes, very hard to get into due to price constrains, niche hobby and some unbalanced rules, also, Fantasy was pretty much ignored by GW over SPACE MARINES

>Is 8th really as bad and unbalanced as I've gathered?
Not THAT bad, but some things were in dire need of a FAQ or a new edition (any centerpiece model being dead weight in the game, which made up most of the new releases, and for some totally unrelated reason, were not selling; or having a wizard below level 4 being a sure way to lose a game)

go for the sensible choice, pick up 9th Age rulesets and play with those (consider using Warhammer's schools of magic instead of 9th Age tho), if you want a setting, pick up from 8th edition and advance the setting however you like the most

Every model has a 9th Age counterpart and it's very well balanced, even if the fun rules and gimmicks suffered from it

>>50844891
It is only too much Dakka if your Lord is not a Dwarf in Napoleonic attire wearing a monocle and a tricorn. However, if he IS... then there is not enough cannon dakka in all the Dwarf holds in all the world.

>>50844874
Are there half-ogres? Can Ogres intermix with humans?

The new Hearthstone expansion, Gadgetzan, introduces a mafia/gang led by a two-headed, mutant Ogre. I don't wanna take it entirely, but an Ogre with muttonchops and a bowler hat, chomping on a cigar, leading a branch of the Thieves' Guild in an Empire city would be a fun character in a WFRP Campaign.

>>50845614
>>50845638
>>50845733
>>50845745
Cool that all makes sense. I think I'm just going to start collecting whatever books and models I can get cheap. I have a pretty big ogre kingdom force and the army book for 7th. Trying to get a pocket rule book, FLGS still has a few skill pass boxes so I think I'm going to try picking one up. I'll print off the 9th age book, I've heard mixed reviews about it. GW has done some decent things recently and I don't HATE the rules of age, just the lore and that it's canonically related to the old world

>>50843697
Because Karak Norn was founded by a Queen?

>>50844891
Depends on the points limit. For a 2k point game, I'd say easy up a little on the dakka if it's a friendly game. If it's a competitive game, all is fair.

Can't seem to locate the AOS Generals Compendium--anyone have a link?

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>>50845761
Suppose its T9A where cannon-sniping isn't a thing.

Also, my General is the Dwarf female riding a bear from Reaper while her Thane is this guy.

>>50845790
Nothing says they can't, but there's no example of it.

But yeah, an Ostland-born Ogre could probably pull that off. He'd need a loyal sidekick or two to be clever for him in ways such as paperwork or complex math, but it would work. But a good mob boss needs some loyal sidekicks anyway.

>>50845841
T9A removed the customization a bit in favor of balance, especially for Skaven, but does have great internal (within the same army book so no option sucks) and external balance (against other armies). Even brought back old themes and models GW cut or never implemented.

But Ogres have never really suffered under rules anyway.

Current edition changed the rules. Standard Warhammer has always been 2000-2500 points, current T9A is 4500-5000. Model points raised to compensate, its to give them more numbers to work with when adjusting for point costs.

>>50845870
No, because it has canonically the best brewers that have ever existed.

Also, Karaz-a-Karak was founded by a queen too.

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>>50846215
http://www.monolithmodels.com/dark-forest.htm

Naked female Slayers, middle finger Dwarfs, Dwarf in barrel, and Night Goblins baring their asses. Also naked vampires in their coffins including Elf and Dwarf.

Good range.

>>50846336
Warning: lewd.

http://www.monolithmodels.com/kiss-carmilla.htm

>>50846081
4500 T9A, so about 2.5k equivalent.

>>50842534
>Slaanesh definitely tries to gobble elf souls in Fantasy too
That was only introduced in 8th by Matty Ward, to pull Fantasy more in line with 40k.

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>>50846394
The only purpose of which was so that Dragontaur Malekith, blind Tyrion, and Teclis could kidnap Slaanesh and torture him like Hostel until he vomitted Elves up so they could be called Aelves instead of Elves and so that Archaon could become canonically the embodiment of lust and pride.

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I understand why, in a lore sense, Bretonnians wouldn't hire mercenaries - though you could probably twist some scenarios where they could or would.

But why, in a crunch sense, was this a thing? It would've made Bretonnians a lot more viable as a fighting force even after GW stopped paying much attention to them.

>>50846717
Because anyone could use Dogs of War. Then DoW were squatted, and Brets had nothing.

Culturally, Brets are Arthurian knights. Look up the stories of the lesser knights, they aren't always straight and narrow but usually pay for it.

Brets not hiring mercs or using cannons is like Dwarfs trusting Elves basically.

>>50844260
You have to remember that Orges have no written records, and barely have any knowledge of their own history.

If you really look at that quote, all the ogre is really commenting on is things related to fighting, and how the rat ogre tasted. He knows more about rat ogres than most Imperials, but he's also more likely to survive a fight with one than most humans, not because he went out of his way to study them.

It's not even necessarily that an ogre is stupid, really. They could probably learn social niceties, how to pick clothes, and all that jazz, but theoretically so could an Orc, and they both have the same problem - they don't care about that stuff at all.

And if you look at 40k's ogyrns...while they're not truly the same, and ogryns seem much duller, there are some specific examples of ogyrn intelligence or lack thereof - Nork Deddog is a 'genius,' but can only count to four and can write only the first letter of his name. And I could easily see this holding true for most ogres - they're not literate and don't care for numbers.

>>50846717, >>50846833
A good logical reason is simply that Bretonnians don't really have a very developed economy compared to their neighbors, being still completely attached to the manorial fief system for most of the wealth of their kingdom.
For comparison, the Empire, Tilea, and Marienburg all have economies akin to 16th or even 17th century Europe.

Bretonnia is something like the 12th or 13th century, more or less.

>>50846871
Ogres are smarter than Ogryn, most can do math. Paymasters, Maneaters and such.

They are ignorant and most are stupid, but they can be taught.

>>50846871
Orcs are incapable of learning. Black Orcs are born knowing what they know.

>>50847027

t.

Dawi Dawistein

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Hey so the bret knight I posted in the last thread is going real swell, still unsure how I can add embellishment to the horse robes while keeping the an empire theme though ;), I ended up swapping the lance out as he's too cool to back row

We know Bretonnians WILL hire mercenaries, though, usually with a convoluted multi-layer excuse to justify their presence. Carcassonne is particularly practiced at this, hiring massive companies of battle-hardened men as "shepherds" at a laughable rate and "accidentally" dropping bags full of gold in the pay chest come payment time.

>>50847027
There's not too much evidence of that though.
Orcs aren't all that bright, but they can learn from experience like anyone. They just don't accumulate much experience outside of war because they don't care about anything else.
And they aren't 40k orcs that are literally programmed biological weapons unless you count any of the lore written by the jizz-guzzling fuckheads writing that fucking horseshit into the game in later editions to feed the 40k idiots.

>>50846929
So are you saying that Bretonnia couldn't afford to pay mercenaries even if they wanted to hire them? Or just that their feudal system and military organization means that they don't really have room for mercenaries, so to speak, while the Empire has state troops, militias, and mercenaries?

>>50847027
I think of it more like a dog bred for hunting - they have some things by instinct, and they can do that well enough, which makes them a lot better than the average dog that you try to turn into a hunting dog, but it still requires some hands-on experience.

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So my group's going on an expedition to the ruins of the city of Mordheim in the next session, and I just wanted to post the basics of their adventure here, so people can provide input on weaknesses or stuff to change.

Hundreds of years after Mordheim burned to the ground, an enterprising Skaaven from Clan Moulder has returned with a small army of slaves and rats, seeking anything he could scavenge from the ruins, now picked clean time and time again.

However he then turned his attention to digging beneath the city, down through the horrific sewer system, now clogged with horrifying undead and with water tainted beyond belief. No success was had for ages and he was on his last dozen slaves or two, before a small vein was discovered, enough to compensate for the entire party.

However they also discovered something next to the vein, a Vampire from the ancient fights over Mordheim, crushed beneath a collapsing building fallling deep through the ruined earth. The wyrdstone sustained and tainted it beyond belief into a horrific monster, is killed almost all of the Skaven, and devoured most of the slaves.

But one escaped, clutching a chunk of rock and wyrstone in his hands. His mind shattered, he was found wandering Striland by a Bright Wizard, who at once recognised the stone, and took him back to the College. The Bright College now wishes to send people to find wherever it came from. However at the same time, word of the stone has filtered through the underground, where a few still remember the old tales. In addition, the vampire's tainted awakening sent ripples through Shyish, which have come to the attention of some of its kind resting in their tombs in Sylvania.

There isn't much left, but it's more than enough to die over, and leave whoever finds it rich beyond their wildest dreams.

The last Wyrdstone of Mordheim.

>>50847977
>So are you saying that Bretonnia couldn't afford to pay mercenaries even if they wanted to hire them?
They could, but it would be VERY expensive comparatively.
One of the major reasons the Thirty Years War got so fucked and did so much damage was that with a fief-based economy the expense of hiring mercenaries was getting pretty crazy and they very soon couldn't afford to PAY them anymore and thus they kept them out in the field to basically keep looting for their payment.
Fiefdom-based economies that don't rely on trade or coinage means most money comes in the form of literally food being paid to you by peasants, which has the downside of not being easily tradable and not good for buying most shit.

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>>50848448
I don't know shit about economics, but it's not as if mercenaries did not exist before the 16th century, right? And Bretonnia seems to at least trade with other powers, so it must have enough of a currency-based economy for trade with the Empire or Estalia and Tilea.

>>50848251
Will there be a bright wizard npc?

>>50848694
Yeah, it's his introduction to the group.
Him hiring them (offering them money if they should find Wyrdstone) to help in his expedition to the dead city.

>>50848718
Wait, sorry, I thought you said PC.
No, it's a Bright Wizard PC.

>>50848251

Group details?

>>50848763
It's a group with rotating GMs, I'm the most experienced by far though.

>Dwarf Targeteer, ex-Huntsman, now a scouting-only does-little NPC as I'm GMing.
>Human Journeyman Wizard, ex-Apprentice, Bright Mage, likes burning stuff.
>Human Mate, ex-Buckaneer/whatever, likes melee combat, talks like a Pirate.
>Human something criminal-y, melee, not sure his other skills.
>Elf Scholar, ex-student, does little other than shoot a bow and try to use social skills.
>Elf Criminal (don't know the career, making new character for this session).

For the last few adventures, my players have mostly run combat-centric or combat-only stuff, and at this point I'm fairly certain that's the meat of what they want. So I'm at least trying to make it at least more interesting than defending a shitty town from bandits like last session.

>>50847571
Nice, but next time for posts, make sure your pics are right side up! :)

But the bret looks good mate

>>50848578
>I don't know shit about economics, but it's not as if mercenaries did not exist before the 16th century, right?
They did, but they didn't often work the way you're probably thinking of, namely exchanging hard currency for war services.
To whit; even the word "mercenary" as we use it is relatively modern (around the 14th century, not coincidentally right around the time they started becoming more and more common), the root word basically meaning "for profit" and having no actual martial connotations until then.
Bretonnia trades; it has it's "merchant clubs, but they aren't very powerful because a hugely influential (meaning wealthy and thus possessing actual coinage and wealth) merchant class heavily erodes a top-down feudal power structure because if you have enough money under your control you CAN tell someone to just fuck off, which traditionally is why in older cultural aristrocrats have been kinda down on the Middle Class, namely that the more wealth and opportunity they have the more they can flaunt your authority.
Basically, a manorial fiefdom economy is much less efficient (most places don't have goods and services, because the only goods anyond produces is farming goods) at producing hard currency because 90% of the people involved in it have no reason to USE it at all.

To give a modern comparison; imagine a guy who has lots of wealth but no actual hard cash because it's all invested in stuff, mostly farms.

>>50848251
Magnus raised Mordheim to the last brick.

>>50849166
Okay, so I'll have to make it mildly non-canonical.
Thanks.

>>50848251
Sounds like an interesting hook, I'd be concerned as to what kind of enemies you are putting them against prior to the vampire boss, if this is mostly combat focused like you said.

If the cities raised and all the skaven are dead, what will they fight? You can do some interesting things with giant rats and fungus underground but what else are you planning?

>>50849398
Vampires felt their kin awaken, and are sending their pawns to check in on the dead city.

Mercenaries and opportunists heard stories of the madman with the stone, and how he was whisked away by a Bright Wizard. They put two and two together, and either follow the PC Bright Wizard, or roam around aimlessly (a few going to Mordheim out of a strike of inspiration or pure luck).

The Witch Hunters heard a similar story, and figure that nothing good will come of a witch's stone, believing that they must finish what the great Magnus the Pious started, as to not sully his name.

There will be a few Skaven sent to find out what happened to those who were digging for Wyrdstone. Not very many though, the spies with news of their success are still on their way back.

>>50849452
With that many factions in flux what's the plan for the players to interact with them? Constant bumping into them and learning as they go/fight? Or will there be some moderate tense diplomacy with potentially friendly fctions, like witchhunters or non-jerk mercs?

>>50849476
They'll likely find some Mercs on the roads who will have heard of the Bright Wizard and want a few... Words with them.
When they arrive, they'll likely find some others leaving after having dug through the ruins once, and found nothing. There's a decent few though, so after the initial interaction with people noticing the Bright Wizard, it's possible they could have covered him up and merely pretend to be other hapless searchers.

When they search, they'll likely find at least one small band of Vampire servants, and if they search at night, they'll see a Necromancer raising skeletons from the river. The more they kill later, the more corpses the Necromancer (and his Vampire mistress) can raise.

The Witch Hunters will arive somewhat shortly after, having followed word of the Wizard. They will be highly accusatory, having found them in the ruins of a dead city, and the group will have to do some serious convincing to avoid at least a terse standoff.

The Skaven are the preliminary underground foes, they're not very experienced, so they're having trouble getting down underground given the horrific native flora and fauna. They'll follow in the PCs wake however, as they delve below.

Ultimately, the final confrontations will involve a few of the groups in a narrativistic conflict, where their decision with regards to them come to the fore. Mercs just following the conflict to pick through the remnants, Witch Hunters wanting to purge everything, collapsing the underground, Vampires wanting the damn stone, and the insane Vampire wanting to feast.

>>50842443
Datz why they're Grotz, and we'z Orcs, roight?

>>50849220
Or...timey-wimey. Chaos and such, considering a fucking solid comet of Warpstone landed I wouldn't be surprised if parts of it pop back into reality every so often.

>>50849398
Also I probably phrased that wrong.
I don't want it to be mostly combat, but my players have shown next to no interest in intrigue.

I decided to use "combat" as the antonym for that.

>>50849600
... No, I'd rather leave the time bullshit with 40K.
Not introduce a time-travel concept like that to Fantasy.

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>>50842404

Is anyone else triggered by CA's version of Gitsnik? The thing is notched to hell and back, it hardly looks dangerous. Looks more like it'll bust apart with the next hit.

Quite different from the model's Gitsnik, which actually looks quite formidable.

>>50849622
Too late, Be'lakor time travels at will.
Also, he's the reason Mordheim happened in the first place.

>>50848251
Did the poor skaven get headpats?

>>50848872
Too many elfs

>>50849733
In my own game, the Four got together and raped Be'lakor into a coma. One he won't wake up from this time.

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>>50849777
No such thing

lewd elfs

>>50849777
I, the Dwarf player, agree.

>>50842274
I love WHFB so much, and I love its gritty, yet fantastical world thats filled with awesome and weird things. I love its hero's and villiains and most of the armies. This is honestly one of the coolest settings I have ever had the pleasure of reading about and getting into, with so much to learn about. Even the End Times and Age of Sigmar did little to halt my love of this world.

I love everything about WHFB, execpt for one thing: The game itself. I love Total War: Warhammer, and the RPG is so much fun, but I find it utterly impossible for me to enjoy the base wargame. And evidently, so does most of my Wargaming group. No matter how much I try, I cannot get myself to sit down, and actually play a full game of it, and neither can anyone else play a full game. I just feel like the game itself is too complex and too obtuse at times for me to garner enjoyment from. Plus, things like Cannons, flying calvary, and large war beasts make it so that tight infantry blocks should be suicide.

Is there any way I can force myself to enjoy this game? Or is it a lost cause?

>>50849781
Shit, that's how Tzeentch spends Monday night. Which, thanks to Warp time-fuckey and Be'lakor being a time-traveler who's every second is a monkey's paw, is every day and every night and every second in-between.

>>50849856
I still want to see Thorgrim and Eltharion wipe out the Badlands greenskins.

>>50849882

Play Warhammer Skirmish or Warbands

>>50849882
The Wargame hasn't been good since 6th edition and half the minis are OOP now thanks to Smeg.

Enjoy the RPG and TWW. The setting was always the best part of Warhammer.

>>50849882
Play T9A with Warhammer lore, remember that its just turn-based Total Warhammer.

Worse comes to worse, do like I did and look at it as a way to enjoy the merchandise you'd buy anyway.

>>50849963
Nah, 6e sucked too. Warhammer has never really been balanced.

Actually, I take that back. 1e and 2e were balanced.

>>50849882
>>50849963
Play 6e or 7e rules, and use 6e army books (some of the early 7e army books are okay too).

It's a way better game.

>>50849126
How does Bretonnia even function economically? Most of their economy seems based around agriculture, and nobility is based around military service. It does not seem to make sense in the way that the Empire makes sense.

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>>50848880
Uploaded straight, or rather sideways from my phone , whoops haha. Any this is my evolution of knight painting skills. I'm happy to be getting better

>>50850552
God damnit not again it must be auto defaulting to sideways somehow, fuck me

>Most of their economy seems based around agriculture, and nobility is based around military service.

That's literally the basis of feudalism.
Just watch this, John Green explains it better.
https://youtu.be/QV7CanyzhZg

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anyone know any good bretonnian damsel stand in models I just dont like GWs

>>50849733
Wasn't he trapped on Albion at some point in the lore?

>>50850670
See the OP. TMS Miniatures is doing the entire Bret range.

>>50850672
Basically every GW event is Be'lakor-centric.

>>50850573
Sorry, I didn't finish my initial equestion: how do they function economically, when the powers around them seem to function in a different way that should put them ahead of Bretonnia, or at least make it difficult for Bretonnia to trade and otherwise interact with them?

And maybe it should also be noted that, as that video points out, feudalism seems to work best on a small scale, but Bretonnia is fairly large and seems surprisingly united, without the traditional infighting of the Empire's provinces.

>>50850710
The Empire is constantly being skullfucked by basically every faction other than the Dwarfs and usually not the High Elves.

Bretonnia only has problems with Beastmen and Wood Elves, while they have a literal fucking goddess that isn't diminished like every other god that gives them minor blessings and guides them to victory, making some of them into superpowered demigods. Also Bretonnia does a great deal of trade in their wine, which even the High Elves (AKA richest people in the entire world) enjoy. Contrast to the Empire who's ale and food is only really tolerable to the Dwarfs and useless to the High Elves.

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Playing 2e rpg as a secret cultist of a relatively tame Slaaneshi sect; I implore you all to share with me ways of keeping my activities on the down low, or failing that having plausible excuses for my unusual behaviours at odd hours.

>>50844102
Obviously. I never said they were finished with their first career. That'd be the start of their second career.

>>50844260
He's certainly literate for an ogre, but he basically just says ogre rats are not ogres, taste like rats, and are dumb and fast. Hardly genius.

>>50844681
>le cultural marxism
>le intersectional feminism
No, seriously though, ogres are legit retarded. They're like huge children that eat and kill anything, often in that order.

>>50850772
>relatively tame Slaaneshi sect
The fuck are you on about anon?

>>50850896

Not quite at the baby eating and daemon summoning level yet.

>>50850930
So you're at the 'eating rare foods and enjoying a vaguely tainted karma sutra' level?

Also, are you noble?

>>50850938

Yes and yes.

>>50850710
What >>50850760 said mostly, keeping in mind that it's a setting for a wargame and thus economics aren't actually a factor in designing the setting and never have been.
It also helps that the Empire is more like eight or nine separate kingdoms who have an elected president who just happens be titled "Emperor" and otherwise have their own cultures, laws, and even religions of majority.
Bretonnia is culturally speaking basically all one country.

>>50850710
>that should put them ahead of Bretonnia
They are in some ways.
But the Empire hasn't conquered it or anything because there's a fuck-off huge mountain in the way and the technology difference isn't so great that it wouldn't be quite costly and finally that they have a hard time keeping itself as one nation with the size it already is, let alone if they were literally double it's current land area.

>>50851010
Yeah, even if they'd conquer Bretonnia, it would result in two distinct empires with one Empire; noth and south. It would be a source of conflict for centuries, most likely.

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>>50851010
Back during the reign of Sigismund II, the Empire actually established a province on the other side of the Grey Mountains - West Mark.

They'd obviously considered the possibility of conquering it, and the mountains weren't that impassible - the Empire's probably just not been united enough for a strong emperor like Sigismund to go conquering again for most of its history, and new threats are a lot more distracting now.

>>50851233
It annoys me far more that Westerland isn't discussed more. The Empire may yave redubbed it The Wasteland, but apart from that, very little is known. It's pretty absurd, considering that it should be at least as important as Nordland.

Concerning Ogres intelligence
In the first army book is mengioned the existence of a clan which decided to learn from the first imperial explorers who arrive to their territory.
The explorers were so successful that they earned the honorary title of Firemasters.

>>50842967

>buttlsaven to archagyon

>"accidentally" blow up a hole in the Realm of Caos
>"accidentally" blow up the moon
>"accidentally" propel their god to chaosgodhood
>"accidentally" kill nagash

Skaven's entire skitch is "I accidentally X", where "accidentally" usually means backstabbing

>>50845638

Remember that one unupdated army were Skaven, and they were bullshit with the new rules

>>50851364
Ogres can learn, albeit slightly slower, but their own culture encourages being a caveman.

>>50850930
So the cult isn't so much tame but rather low level?

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>>50851896
hot

You are tasked with making a warhammer movie. This is the movie that will get warhammer fantasy introduced to a wider audience.Budget is no problem for you, and you can have whatever actors you want. What story do you choose to tell? who/what is the movie about? How do you change things from the original lore to make it more cinematic?

>>50852063
Please, not again. Not in Christmass.

Merry Christmass and may WH thrive outside GW so much that Roundtree drinks himself into coma.

>>50842274
https://mobile.twitter.com/OldhammerBot

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>there are literally people who think the empire is the main character faction of warhammer
Kek, if warhammer has a face it's the warriors of chaos. If we're talking main character "good guys" it's definitely high elves, not imperials. Look how much more lore we have on all the elf characters and events has anything related to empire. The empire may rule the role playing game, and total war, but they're really lacking in just about every other medium

>>50852160
More empire books that highelf books anon last time I checked, in the spirit of Christmas please elf yourself

>>50852191
>a bunch of empire books about either historical figures long dead or side characters no one cares about and who barely have any large effect on the history of warhammer

>>50846717
There was one dukedome wich hired sheepherds
and addical drop some coins in front of them.
these"shepherds" if get keep one sheep witch there may make there mascot

>>50852160
Humans are more relatable than elves or immortal dickheads who sold their souls to the dark gods.
Of all the Human factions the Empire is the biggest, most influential one.

As such it is the faction that lends itself as the 'looking glass' through which a normie can understand the setting best.

Any tips for what war game to play in the warhammer setting, tried the 9th age playing dark elves against my brothers empire army several times but my msu tactics seem to consistently loose out to his horde of spearman/swordsman with warrior priest support. Any advice? I have also tried playing KoW but would prefer a game with more room for customisation, I also can't seem to find the older editions of warhammer.

>>50852203
>taking pride in having 2 (two) characters that ruined the day forever

>>50852291
>I also can't seem to find the older editions of warhammer.
You didn't look hard enough in the OP then

>>50852317
Thanks for pointing that out, any advice for the 9th age or other war games?

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Happy Ancestor guys

>>50852392
Ha, jokes on you santa grudge MY presents only bring the chaos gods.

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>>50852160
If elfs are so great why did they make this guy the posterchild of Total warhammer?\
KF > Any elf in the setting.
Especially tyrion and his cripple brother.

How fast are dorfs at striking their grudges? How often do they have to bring vengeance to some descendants rather than the original perpetrators?

>>50852728
The fact that Dwarfs have entire books of grudges suggests that they're less than prompt in taking their revenge.

Sometimes.

I mean, if you have a good opportunity, why wait?

>>50850760
But that's incorrect. Bretonnia also has to deal with orcs coming out of the Massif Orcal, skaven (because they get everywhere), Norse raaiders on its North and Western coasts, dark elf raids on the same, undead from Mousillon and even the occasional border war with the Empire.

>>50852288
Also, of the main human factions it's the most familiar to modern day people. Bretonnia with its turbo-feudalism is a step removed from modern ideas of equality and liberty

>>50852728
>How fast are dorfs at striking their grudges?
Faster than their M3.

>>50853090
Do what many of us do and combine old bretonnia and new bretonnia, and you have a feudal familiar medieval state mixed with instantly recognizable revolutionary stuff of egalite, fraternite, blablableh.

>>50853697
I don't know how to respond to that

>>50849744
This.

Forget the wyrd stone, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SKAGEN SLAVE?

>>50850436
Their cities are approaching modernity for the setting. Bretonnia is relatively save compared to a lot of the Old World, and quite resource-rich.

From what I remember, most of their trade economy is based around finished products and luxury goods, ships, and valuable metals.

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>>50850772
Well, at a low level, you can probably excuse the weird rope burns and odd jaunts by openly admitting that you're the adventurous sort, make it sort of humorous that you're the group degenerate. The other PCs need not know that you ALSO offer up thanks to Slaanesh at your little evening gatherings.

I'm converting some Wood Elves Scouts and I decided I'll have them not as much a regular kindred force like Glade Guard, or savage forest hunters like Waywatchers, but rather semi-mystical guardians that stand watch over sacred places and materialize for battle.

As such, planned conversion is somber non-dynamic figures, with fancy helmets, body almost wrapped in cloaks with ornamentations, and some fancy decorations, sorta like a single-shoulder pauldron.

Now, here's where I'm completely lost. What should I put as "pauldron" on then? Something very wood-elfy and not just a piece of armor, something fancy. Ideas?

>>50851313
Apparently it's mostly fairly hostile land. Salt marshes are the name of the game, and a lot of formerly sturdy ground is getting worse. This is going by the WFRP 1e sourcebook.

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>>50851896
WHAT THE FUCK-FUCK?

>>50852704
Karl Franz is meme tier and wasn't relevant at all prior to end times. there is is virtually no fluff that actually characterizes him as anything other than generic god guy emperor.

how a dwarf keep his beard safe when fighting fire using enemies though? Coat it in some kind of oil? I need this for reasons

>>50855219
make it a big leaf bro, or a paulron shaped like a leaf

then you could have different units be differnt seasons (autumn leaf, dead leaf for winter, etc)

>>50855579
> Shoot them from far away


> Armour up


> Pay the Humans to do it

>>50855433
it is clearly the dream of ratmen everywhere to kiss an elf on the mouth

they're super fucked up

>>50855529
Karl Franz was still an important character (certainly a lot more accomplished then most Emperor's), it's just that the game itself focuses significantly less on named and existing heroes, and thus Emperor Franz was busy actually BEING Emperor.

>>50852063
You don't have to change any lore.

You just need an Empire army trying to defend a fortress against Daemons and Warriors all night. In the morning, Dwarfs show up then at the movie climax when most of the Empire soldiers are dead and all hope seems lost Karl Franz shows up with an army and in a massive charge of cavalry wins. You're left on an unhappy note, seeing all of the main characters are gored to unrecognizable pulps and most of the fortress is destroyed with Karl saying its happening all over this season.

Film it like a war movie mixed with a horror movie.

>>50852160
Warriors are the main villains, like Stormtroopers.

High Elves and Dwarfs are the badass sidekicks, the Han and R2-D2.

Empire is Luke if his hand gets cut off constantly.

>>50852337
Need your army list, and the basics of what you're up against.

I just have to wish all of you filthy animals a Merry Christmas, a Good Yule, and a Happy Sigmarszeit!

>>50852392
>The three wise men presented gold and incense to strike their Grudges from the Dammaz Kron

>>50852704
Eltharion>Finubar>Eldyra>Alarielle>All other High Elf Characters>Teclis>>>>>>>>Tyrion

>>50852728
Depends. Every Hold and many individual Dwarfs have their own Dammaz Kron. Thorgrim's is the master copy with the most important ones.

Alrik Ranulfsson is the most successful at getting rid of them. His standard is literally an entire Dammaz Kron that he's striken every Grudge out of. Thorgrim pursues them intensely, but puts starting the new golden age ahead of Grudges which is why he allies with Elves and is so attentive to the Empire. Ungrim does quite a few because his entire job is to send Spayers to their deaths and so he points them in the direction of other Grudges.

>>50855579
Armor.

Send in the Hammerers.

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>>50856136
Merry Valaya-Trogg!

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>>50853697
THAT'S GOING IN THE BOOK

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>>50855579
Dwarfs actually armor their beards and moustaches. One of Bardin's helms in Vermintide shows this. It seems likely they apply flame-repellant substances or, perhaps, dunk their beards in water.

>>50851313
Westerland is different from West Mark, but you have the right idea - Sigismund founded both provinces, as well as a third one, though of course none are part of the Empire today.

>mfw when I just realized that Archaon is just generic "archon" with extra "a" crammed in for OCDNS name

>>50857250
Even worse because his real name is actually kind of interesting. Almost sounds like a Terry Pratchett character.

>>50857250
His creator admitted the original name was going to be Archaos, but it wasn't allowed because there was a french circus with that name.

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>>50856401

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>>50856401
>>50857473

>>50857285
>Hurr hurr i will mention his real name without naming it duurr durrr

>>50857508
Google motherfucker, can you use it?

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What was his name again, /v/?

>>50857508
Diederick Kastner.

That's a great name for a character, but instead he gets a generic name that's supposed to sound scary and doesn't. His great name is just a secret password for screwing him over in AoS.

>>50853040
It's a matter of frequency and relativity though.

>>50857581
"Dakkabait" Kastner.

9th Age fluff book is out. I give it a ehhh.

>>50857581

Ramgis the Black Edge

>>50857713
>Chaos Dwarfs on the cover

Nice.

>>50857426
ugh, I'll have to bleach my brain. that's one fucking retarded name for chaos character.

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>>50857713
a few shits are really fucking neat

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>>50857285
>Terry Pratchett

>>50857581
"Fluffy"

oh, you're 'bout that generic chaos dude. no idea. thought you were talking about squig.

>>50857713
I don't know why they went for it in first place.

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>>50857919

>>50857931
I don't get it.

>>50857933
Its cool for a fan thing

>>50857919
Yeah, I was expecting a something a little more different, I guess? Since they are trying to differentiate themselves from WHFB

>>50857937
>>50857919
Damn, I love this.

>>50857978
they are going Pathfinder on it, so it's understandable it looks similar. otherwise they'd just alienate WHFB refugees, which make up majority of their playerbase at the moment

>>50857933
why did PF make it own setting?

>>50857713
call me a retarded retard, but I can't find it on their website. care to give a link?

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>>50857426
Oh god, that would have been PERFECT. He would've been an even bigger joke.

>>50858027
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/&s=35cf97c6bc5e23dfb6bf1b2043997bb7d8646c63

>>50858171
ah, it's part of main rulebook

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>>50857985
it's a mixed bag
>hurr durr I'm a lizord

>>50857937
jesus..has the artist never heard of subtle in his colour choices? hurts my eyes.

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>>50858385
spooky mammoths are spooky

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>>50858406
>>50858401
elves, ain't gonna explain rainbows

>>50858432
they have when it makes your fucking eyes bleed.

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>>50858432

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>>50858460

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I'm glad to see 9th really coming into it's own. It has actual artists?? Despite the quality perhaps, it's just amazing than a grass roots project has come so far.

What's the best way to support 9th? Does the project have like...donations? or a central fund/management to help out with?

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>>50858401
Looks like the old Warhammer Eavy Metal paint colors.

Shit, you ever see those? Bright green bases, and damn near neon colors.

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>>50858488
>GOBBOS

>>50858460
Dwarf-funded Ogres? LOVE IT.

>>50858401

i think it's neat. people in the past often wore very garish colors, after all.

hes like an elven landsknecht

>>50858489
>Hanz, they brought the Oliphants! Get the grenades!

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?donations/

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>>50858401
I see a Spear and I want to paint it Red
No colours other than bright pastels
I see the Goblins in their shadowed robes
I have to paint them bright until my darkness goes.

>>50858489
>It has actual artists??
Free contributors fans of the project, some have a professional portfolio

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>>50858511
Fuuuuuuck, I love that.

>>50852728
some dawi don't even cross the grudge on their books once it has been fulfilled, so I'd say slowly

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>>50858620
>some dawi don't even cross the grudge on their books once it has been fulfilled
nani?

>>50858661
iirc it's in the 8th edition army book

>>50858620
That's by mistake, not intent.

One of the major problems is that every Grudge other than the worst of them (almost all greenskins) can be repayed in gold, but the gold price lies in what event caused the Grudge. But many Grudges were only listed, not explained and passed out of living memory, so one group may claim it'll only take 100 gold coins to repay and another may claim it'll take the entire treasury and their leader taking a Slayer Oath.

I like the Treant holding a naked elf on page 15, reminds me of the storybooks I used to read as a kid. Hildebrandt I think?

>>50858757
>not listing skaven and chaos grudges as being past redemption by gold.
other than that, I'm not quite sure about that bit of fluff about dwarfs not crossing grudges, so don't take that too seriously

>>50859103
and for an actual awnser to >>50858757 the dwarfs write in stone everything, so they're unlikely to forget what caused the grudge, the real problem lies in the caracter of the king/thane, with some like thorgrim who can accept excuses and at the other end of the spectrum you get dawi that will gleefully destroy your castle because your payment was missing some gold coins

>>50858532
I used to laugh at it then someone reminded me that black powder wasn't smokeless and that looking like circus rejects helps tell through the smoke screen if you're not targeting your own dudes.

>>50859202
I got that exact Grudge in Total Warhammer. Raid an Empire province because they shortchanged us on construction.

I just waited until Vampires took it over, then raided it and destroyed it then used the gold I earned from crossing off the Dammaz Kron as well as the money Mannlet paid me to sign a peace treaty to give to the Empire and they retook it.

So I guess I pulled a Thorgrim?

>>50859435
kinda, but then again the gruge system in Total war is deeply flawed, as are all diplomatic options

>>50859621
Still counts though, right? Grudgekeeping is pretty much up to each individual Dwarf leader so if the king considers the Grudge avenged then the rest of them count it. If it means not going to war with the Empire and striking out Grudges against the Vampires too, Thorgrim would probably be for it.

>>50842274
I have some of those old goblins still, what should I do with them?

>>50859781

Paint them better than that I would suggest.

>>50853785
Even then I think the old Bretonnian stuff is a bit more Bourbon France, which is still very much old regime with a very strong monarchy and centralized government. Though it is useful for helping Bretonnia feel less like an out of date backwater.

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>>50857713
Personally, I'm not planning on making any use of 9th Age fluff. It's more or less an excuse to keep GW from slapping them down for copyright, and that's it. I don't really need it or want it, and good or bad, I don't see why anyone cares when most people got into 9th Age as a way to play WFB.

>>50860715
to be honest, I feel more and more detached from WHFB fluff as time goes by. I'm not big fan of T9A fluff (though I haven't read that new lore yet), but I'm slowly starting to consider refluffing my armies into another setting. At least my undead and elves, since there ain't any good setting with crazy engineer ratmen, apart of WHFB.

>>50859781
As someone who has been browsing for a Goblin army pretty cheap, the older models don't tend to sell that much usually.

You could put them for a fair price considering their rarity but you may have to relist them a few times.

That being said, there's times the damn things go for a lot. I throw a cheap bid on some old gobbos and get them in packs for what comes to $1 each, then some guy bids them up to $7 each. It just depends on the demand.

Again, if you want to get rid of them my advice is put them as buy it now or best offer and just keep relisting them.

>>50860715
I like T9A lore because its new. We'll never get any more Warhammer Fantasy outside of Total Warhammer, so T9A scratches the itch for something new to read.

>>50860864
The T9A TK lore was cute, but a bit more like girl Lord Carnarvon meeting the Tomb Kings than an Empire expedition into Nehekhara.

But the Wood Elves lore of a Bret Bard being kept as a pet by Orion for lulz was nice.

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>>50860864
>to be honest, I feel more and more detached from WHFB fluff as time goes by.

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>>50860864
I can understand that feeling - I think that happens with everyone for every setting after a point - but it hasn't really happened to me yet.

>>50860864
I'm feeling it too.

Old fluff and headcanon is replacing it.

Its the Old World, but mine instead of Games Workshop's.

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My Diaz Daemonettes from GW Made To Order just arrived! One box of Nettes and one of Seekers.

>>50842274

Why do I love the look of the old models so much more than the later stuff?

I started with 6th ed too.

Do female Dwarves have beards in this setting?

>>50861318
They were done by the Perry brothers.

Take a look at Perry Miniatures, they do great stuff.

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/tg/, I need help. These Dwarfs are hideous, what are the best alternatives?

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>>50861413
No. They braid their hair into plaits, and the length of their plaits is equivalent to the length of a male's beard.

>>50861428
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/lexicon/index.php?entry/1369-miniatures-clan-warriors-greybeards/

>>50861413
No, they grow their hair as >>50861430 says and never cut it. Implying that dwarfen women have beards is a serious insult and may get you grudged.

>>50861318
I find they have a certain earnest charm to them despite (quite obviously) technically inferior.

>>50861415

I've been checking out the Berry bro's website to just collect some generic medieval models for another skirmish game. They're really nice looking, and cheap?? Like $27-30 for 40 or 50 models? Holy crap.

I would like to own a few YE OLDE cartoony citadel models though. Too bad all of GW's modern stuff is overdesigned and covered in bling. Idk, I really don't like the look of em.

>>50842356
I've never heard this. Plaguebearers are born from the victims of Nurgle's Rot (or at least their souls, depending on which piece of lore you read) though, so, maybe you're confusing it with that.

>>50861544
Well, try to find out who the sculptors of what you like were. Chances are good GW pissed them off, and they went and sculpted more for someone else.

>Our past did end in fire and rage
>Out from the ash and bitter smoke
>We look to hope and keep it close
>As all did see our near to end
>Yet live to see this, our Ninth Age

Okay, this is good.

Does 9th Age have a reasonable chance of becoming as popular as WHFB, or is it just going to be more of a niche deal?

>>50861544

Fuck, I meant Perry lol.

>>50861671

yeah, that'd be a better idea. Know any you could recommend that still sell stuff?

>>50861736
More popular than anything came before. Less mainstream than Age of Sigmar which has the attention of tabletop gaming magazines, but Youtube personalities are following The 9th Age fairly closely with a few refusing to accept AoS at all.

It'll survive. It helps that GW hasn't pursued any legal action at all, and with the square bases including in their new AoS starter set its possible that they see it as free advertising.

>>50861451

Ugh, none of them really tickle my fancy either.

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>>50861451

This would be insanely expensive but I may use GW Hammerers kit and leave off the shoulder pads.

If you painted the plate to look like leather it would look like they just had mail underneath. I'm not sure if this would work though.

>>50862025
What kind of thing do you want? Warriors aren't supposed to be very armored, otherwise the heavily armored specialist Dwarfs don't look as good. But there's more armored options if you do want them.

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>>50862245

I basically just want chainmail hauberks like the art.

Some of them were close, like the reaper miniatures but they wouldn't have fit in with all the support stuff like cannon crew and crossbowmen.

>>50862290
Wait, I thought you only wanted Dwarf Warriors.

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/lexicon/index.php?lexicon/466-dwarven-holds-dh/

Look there and see a full list. Its not all there is on the market of course, people are adding more as time goes on.

>>50862345

I just mean all the parts of the army should look similar. So while I like Reaper Dwarfs they have none armed with arquebus'.

I think I'm just going to have to like it and lump it. They're cheap and do the job I suppose.

>>50862515
Why would all of your army have the same gear? You don't equip full plate Gromril on cannoneers. They'd have armor, but not the good stuff.

>>50855529
t. elf.

I think that someone should make 9th Age book with pasted in pre-ET fluff.

If they need own fluff to eventually cash in, it's okay, but we should have new players-who are plenty out there- someway tied to the Old World before it withers and gets kinda lost in process.

Too bad that I'm such a bad English-speaker.

>>50863456
1d4chan is a good place to do it. Just fill in anything not there. There's only like four of us who work on pages there, but we've managed to fill it pretty well over the last few years. When I started there was only a few pages, less than twenty.

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Do the various peoples and races of the Warhammer world celebrate Christmas, you think? How would they go about it?

>>50864826
Since worldbuilding was so bare bones, all we know is that on Halloween the undead rise up and kill everyone, and there's a vague celebration of Sigmar.

>>50851917

its most definitly the most perverted thing ive drawn

>>50864826
Dunno if they are called something else in English since the Empire is pseudo German anyway and the English lexicanum doesn't have an article on it.

http://whfb-de.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperialer_Kalender
Weltstill is the closest, I guess. Wintersonnenwende is the 21st of December so would be on the WHFB analogue of that day. Though the month have 33 days and a week 8 days apparently.
Never read any of the books cited as source there so I can't say more about it than what can be found in the article.

>>50864826
Sure there would be something related to Winter Solstice

>>50864917
We needed proper worldbuilding.

Dwarf holidays, Elf holidays, even the vampires probably celebrate something.

Too bad GW's stance is just selling models. It really held back Warhammer.

>>50864826
Sigmarszeit is analogous to Christmas, in the Empire, and is celebrated in much the same way,no idea about the rest.

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This has never been discussed at length.

Were the Brets right in abandoning their oath to Lileath/Lady and forsaking the Order side? I imagine if they stuck around for the last fight, things would have turned out different.

>>50865037
i deeply fell in love with WHF for all the cool-yet-pointless world building stuff going on.

most fantasy is just boring shits with overlong names having some Epic Story of Tragedy And Worldsaving or some shit going on, but WHF was chock full of details about totally banal-but-cool shit like early modern Holy Roman Empire realpolitking, toof based socioeconomics, rat man pencil pushers, and all other kinds of very granular details thanks to writers that actually knew their shit about history and sociology and put a ton of love into perfecting the balance between character and realism. It hit that note of surreal-yet-banal nuttery that only reality can match.

and then the whole thing gets wiped out, all those cool details ignored in favor of Big Dumb Immortal Edge Lords and literal fucking Berlin Walls of dumb fantasy glop manned by Mary Sues purging the fuck out of all the interesting characters. Battles written by dudes who learned all they know about warfare from Dungeons and Dragons and Hollywood trash flicks who can only think in POWER LEVELSSS style conflict.

fuckin GW

>>50865125
>Were the Brets right in abandoning their oath to Lileath/Lady and forsaking the Order side?
Some elf fuck leads your people to believe they are a god. Over hundreds of years generations of people die in search of it or in wars fought in the name of it. They even steal your children and may or may not return them.
Then you find out that was all a big fat lie.

How can that even be a question?

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>>50865159
>Lileath looked away. ‘Asuryan would never have countenanced the creation of a new race. Not after what was provoked by the crafting of the elves.’ She turned and swatted aside his sword with her staff. ‘I chose your forefathers to serve a greater purpose. I drew them up out of the muck, and gave them nobility and honour second only to that of the elves. Without the codes and laws that I gave you, your ancestors would have wiped each other out, or else been trampled into the muck by orcs or worse things.’ She extended her staff, nearly touching his chest. ‘Make no mistake, human. What you have, your honour, your lands, your skill, all of that is my doing. You owe me your life and loyalty, whether I be Lady or Ladrielle. And I make no apology for collecting on that debt.’

An oath was made, though. A knight must fulfill his vows regardless of circumstance.

>>50865132
Might be why Warcraft did so well. Warcraft do what GW don't.

They just kind of let anyone dive headfirst into WoW lore and threw it in every direction. Fuck, the Medivh book was more about worldbuilding than the story of fucking Medivh. The Warcraft manga were just about regular adventurers and civilians like Ten-tailed Cat. They wrote almost a literal book of in-universe books explaining Warcraft Christmas and why Santa Clause is both an Orc and a Dwarf.

You had a lot of good stuff in the early army books. I've been reading through the 6e books, they're so good. Then I glanced back at the 8e books and there's still good stuff there, but you can tell the lore is pointing at the characters you're supposed to be paying attention to and minimizing every other thing just like WoW after Wrath.

>>50865125
The fully devoted Brets all died in the early wars. All that was left was the dregs.

Like if all the important characters, Longbeards, Engineers, Runesmiths, Hammerers, artillery teams, nobility, and Ironbreakers died and the only Dwarfs left were just beardling Warriors lead by Unit Champions who were told that the Book Of Grudges was invented by the god of the Ogres who had pulled the "Kill Everything" lever so a new world could survive ruled by Ogres. With the Warriors going "Fuck this shit and fuck you umgi, we're going back to Karaz-a-Karak."

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>>50865125
>that image

What if:
High Elves are to Araby as
Dwarfs are to the Empire
and Wood Elves are to Bretonnia?

It's got the proximity at least.

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>>50865197
I find it a little ironic that you say this, but in the document that you quoted from, you can clearly see Jerrod's anguish, and I sympathize far more with his argument than 'she did nothing wrong.' Is it fair to follow an oath - to be forced to follow an oath - made under false pretenses, and for false reasons? I don't think it is.

Was it right to leave the side of Order entirely over it? I don't know. I can't honestly know if they would have managed to change things at all. But I can feel that the Brets were justified in their reaction to this lie that had shaped them for centuries at the hands of a manipulative witch who even when confronted with her own lie attempted to manipulate Jerrod into doing what she wanted, messing with his mind (literally) and playing mind games (figuratively).

Ironically, it was Lileath who forged them to react this way. She convinced them they were special, and the truth revealed that they were nothing more than a happenstance cat's paw. She hoped that the impressed values of loyalty to sovereign would hold, but instead love of Bretonnia - of themselves as a people - proved stronger than that - a need to prove her wrong, rather than right. It'd be beautiful if both sides weren't so depressing.

>>50865245
Nekhara is to Araby
High Elves/Wood Elves is to Bretonnia (influenced heavily by both)
Dwarves is to Empire

>>50865125
>things would have turned out different.
the only important assets they had (important by the ET standards) were the gree knight and his buddy because I think aborash would have ended up interacting with vlad's spawn at some point, either annihilating or making mannlet flee.

>have not played tge warhammer since 1999
>suddenly get the urge to paint woodelves and dwarves
>find out the entire game was scrapped for age of smegma or whatever

shit. what happened guys? why did they do it?
i don't have friends into fantasy games so i knew i would be out of the loop but fuck...

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>>50865377
How the fuck did you know about this general and decide to come here about it if you haven't played Warhammer since 1999? Did you browse 4chan since 2003 and know this general was here, and sit through all the hype going during the End Times and whatever the fuck else has been happening for over a decade, and never once think to pick up the setting again?

Or are you just trying to dish out the same rehashed shit so you can spark a bit of rage over AoS?

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>>50865197
>sigmar does all that and more.
>he does it without deception but only with a vision that humanity was greater than the sum of it's parts.
>could have inserted himself as the center of the empire and left it to die without him.
>instead made everyone his children
>even after he faded into legend, his deeds guided the empire to ever onwards
See, even if sigmar was a man, the legacy he left behind is worthy of any god. And he didn't do it by manipulating his underlings from the shadows. This is why sigmar is the best god of the setting. It's because everything he was when he was human and mortal is represented in the empire. Yes, it has it's flaws, but it consistently goes above and beyond what can be expected of mere mortals and defends the world.

And they have the best hats.

>>50865377
>why did they do it?
after years of running after its own tail in shortsight, the dog finally ate its end
and whined for it was bleeding, but instead of licking the wound in attempt of recovery, tore it off.

>>50865401
i play historicals. nobody i play with knows or cares about fantasy. i don't tg much until recently. and i just use /fowg/.
I knew some new game came out but i didn't know Fantasy was totally scrapped. pretty sad to be honest.

>>50865197
>there are many truths

I like to think the self-centered elf completely disregarded, after that moment, the possibility of an actual goddess having been spawned by the worship of the brets, complementing her work, only to assume full responsibility for her prideful self, while the true lady, weakened by the conflicts of the gods, was weeping incapable of reaching her knights.

elves are flawed beings.

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>>50865272
I think Nehekhara has a certain amount of High Elf influence in its own way (Or rather High Elf heraldry was inspired by Egyptian motifs).

What's funny is that Araby was never conquered by the Nehekharans. Araby and the Land of the Dead are often conflated but they don't really overlap.

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>>50865567
With regards to the extent of Nehekhara, pic related.

>>50865567
The Dwarves never conquered the Empire either, but their influence is still felt. Araby trades far and wide, so is probably influenced by a fair bit, but the Tomb Kings are right there, and probably influenced their ancestors a great deal.

>>50842536

considering her cripling drug addiction would probably have something to do with her gouging out then destilling your pineal gland and shooting up the results...

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I was toying with the idea of fleshing out the beastmen of the various gods, and given how each solution is either boring or is in conflict with the anarchic savagery of the drakwald beastmen, I was thinking about making these subfactions culturally isolated, not unlike how the various kinds of elves are.

The fluff for the tzaangors makes them hungry for arcane items and knowledge, gathering them around places of power or powerful wizards, usually in service in the jealous hope to get as much as possible, forevision abilities or magical items being among the byproduct of being involved in these circumstances.

Slaanesh already had something about his beasts being the sub of the relations, with negations, constrictions and other things.

for khorne I was thinking about something stranger and putting them to work on mortal forges, either in competition or collaboration with the chaos dwarfs and the daemons.

I have no idea how to spin it for nurgle apart from continuing with nurgle's theme of the garden and have them "plow and seed the fields anew" instead of the more common counting or collection of the plague-fruits.

what I'm asking is if you have any idea or remember some older fluff related to this.

>>50865262
>Is it fair to follow an oath - to be forced to follow an oath - made under false pretenses, and for false reasons?

This is modern thinking.

To Arthurian knights, an Oath is an Oath. Period.

If it leads you to ruin, its your own damn fault. Worse happens if you break it.


End Times is the fault of Jerrod, Tyrion, and Mannlet.

>>50865444
Pretty sure that the Dwarf gods were the best of the setting.

They didn't have autistic world-destroying Columbine shooters because they just had to have an Inquisition force.

>>50865663
Nurgle Beastmen are literally just Broo. Fuck, 1/3 of the Broo pantheon is literally girl Nurgle.

>>50865667
otoh, medieval princes were fucking masters at weaseling out of oaths or making real bullshit ones (like William the Bastard forcing the anglo saxon king to make an oath while he had him hostage(which, incidentally, was not respected))

you did have leaders who took that shit very seriously but honor frequently means "whatever you can get away with" and dishonor means "whatever shit sticks and you can't bluff, threaten, and bluster folk into shutting up about"

>>50865667
But yet Lancelot ended up feuding with Arthur because of Guinevere, and a lot of knights supported him in that fight.

>>50865667
>This is modern thinking.
>Breaking a pact because it was built on lies and misinformation is modern thinking.

I'm pretty sure people invented justified retribution over scams before they invented written laws, m8.

>>50865675
Dwarfs gods must have been super autistic

>>50865648
Stop. She will be cuddling with me in no time!

>>50865747
They were, if you can trust 1d4chan when I cant' find an actual source. Apparently two warring clans, down to their last few dozen members, were going to make peace because enemies at the gate, but then a statue of a dwarf god screamed at them about the grudge not being settled, so they fought to the death.

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Do magic lores have examples of further specializations? Or are all wizards from a college all around capable in their studies?

I'm talking about stuff like amber wizard shapeshifting spec over creatures binding; fire college having siegemasters and more refined smithers; death chronomancers or heaven divinancer over the usual generalised depictions

>>50865797
honestly dwarves seem much better than elves if you stay on their good side. and their gods seem relatively straightforward, not like elf gods.

Marius was right when he said that he trusts dwarfs more than he trusts his fellow electors.

>>50865811
why would pyromancers be smiths when you have the lore of metal?

>>50865830
I don't know, forging weapons in magical fire sounds cool.

>>50865197
>>50865197
>>50865197

Any more reactions from the brets when they realized that they were an elf godesses' patsy?

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>>50865887