Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>50767072
>tfw red dragon burns down your city then forces you to throw a parade to celebrate it burning down the city
Dragons are a bunch of pieces of shit

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>>50767089
Find a copy of Dragons of Faerun.

That's pretty much what happened when Tchazzar returned to his kingdom at the end of the Dracorage.

So. Did people follow through with that 'roll for a RotJR character and talk about them' thing?

>>50767126
it was ditched after the first one when everyone when "that's pretty alright" and immediately got bored.
Some dude rolled a party out of the app list. Nothing came from that yet.

>paizo sets up a scenario in ap that is actually dire and players feel real tension due to it
>ap also says "but if they get in real trouble, use this massively powerful dmpc to help them"
Wow

>>50767260
Which scenario is that?

Consider the following campaign premise: A hexcrawl/colonialism game except magic is dangerous and the expedition discovers a mecha forge. PCs rely on robutts and ancient tech for scaling more than magic users/items.

>>50767283
Shattered Star
End of book 4

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>>50767292
Which tech rules are you using?

>d20 Star Wars RPG's Wounds were equal to CON

>Pathfinder's Wounds are equal to CON x2

Is this because PF players are pussies?

>>50767598
What now

>>50767598

PF Wounds and Vigor doesn't really work at all anyway, so who cares?

>>50767598
Star Wars people don't get hurt, everyone just misses.

Pathfinder people do get hurt, but are less affected by it.

>>50767489
I'm considering homebrew alteration of DSP's Arcforge playtest (divorcing mechs from class features) combined with stingy use of Paizo's tech rules. And more homebrew on top of that.

Help me out, guys.

The bbeg of my next campaign is an artificer with the goal of making an entire race of clockwork people to serve his needs and begin his ascension to godhood. I plan on having at least one of them show up halfway through to set the idea on my players that he would have the ability to basically build a new life, but I'm not sure how to do it.

I want them to be a playable race, but I'm not sure how to go about it. My first two options were applying the clockwork template to humans and hoping for the best. Alternatively, I could just change around the Android race rules a bit and call it a day. I want this to be something my players genuinely consider making, so I want it to look good, any ideas?

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>>50767651
There's a Kobold Quarterly article with something like this for Pathfinder.

If I can find it later this morning, I'll post it.

How do I learn to be good at this game? I have no idea how to learn how all the talents interract

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Okay. 9-hour holiday shift done. Catching up with feedback done. Just pushed another update to the avowed. This one with a table of contents as well as some bug fixes.

How are you doing, all?

>>50767161
Here's hoping that wasn't the GM.

>>50767260
I feel that's what plenty of GMs would actually do--either that or BS a way for them not to have a TPK so you can continue the campaign.

Just seems kinda disillusioning that they'd actually put that in the AP, not totally a bad design choice. But even then, gotta remember that their first priority is to keep the reader buying the books.

>>50767670
Alright, awesome

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>>50767708
I'm finishing up a 60 hour week in a few hours.

I get two days of rest before working five, 12 hour days in a row.

Maybe next year, I'll have enough time to run a game.

>>50767708
I'm pretty fine. Although I do have to ask, what happened to all the DSP folk? Now that I got more time to keep up with the threads I haven't seen them in weeks.

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So my DM wants to run us through a Tucker's Kobolds oneshot.

Basically we have to fight against an army of intelligent, organized, disciplined goblins under the leadership of a HobGob Hitler

DSP not allowed and neither are full casters.
What should I roll, /pfg/?

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>>50767847
Roll whatever Goblin Slayer is, he's your best bet against the gob reich.

>>50767847
Something with AoE of any sort. What level are you starting at? Barb's can get some shouts that shake and panic large groups, no? Stuff like that if you want to be the damage. Otherwise, Rogue with hella high perception and disable device and acrobatics for weaving around the noncombat portions and clearing the way for the party.

>>50767888
GS is a Ranger in heavy armor. Put everything into favored enemy: goblin

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>>50767847
Bard

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Alright /pfg/, I'm about to go to bed, but before I do I want to ask a question: how do I build a character who's a turbo-masochist that gets off to combat? What races and class would fit a high-Con "HIT ME HERE" character who fights harder the more hits they they take? Everything else is just kind of incidental, though having things to do outside of that is probably a good idea.

Assume 1pp and DSP. Gestalt is optional. There's preference for TWF and maximum edge, as well as dexfaggotry, and hopefully not falling back to stalker again.

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>>50767888
>Goblin Slayer anime anounced

>>50767924
There's a Barb archetype that gets angrier the fewer his HP.

There's a Sorc bloodline that blasts harder when he sacrifices his hitpoints

>>50767908
Goblin Slayer is a fighter. He doesn't have really pass for a ranger.

>>50767952
Are you on drugs? He's a slayer.

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>>50767805
Oof, that sucks. I've only got about 45ish myself this week. Hope you manage to find the time to run a game, though.

>>50767826
Can't really say right now; mostly just people are busy, life is hectic, and I'll leave it at that.

>>50767847
What about FFS? ;-;

For paizo-only games, I really like Kenku Thug URogues. Get Blade of Mercy and Enforcer, and you've got three primary natural attacks that each proc sneak attack, debilitating injury, autosicken, and free demoralize (with extra synergy from Thug).

>>50767924
If you count FFS as part of DSP, Old One avowed has the ability to explode and heal back up when hit with enough damage in a single round.

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>>50767888
>>50767930
There isn't enough love for GS in /tg/ despite the fact that the manga veers closer to tabletop fantasy gaming territory than KonoSuba

>>50767798
It makes sense since it is one great power trespassing on anothers turf
But it does eat the "oh shit" value of it

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tfw no games for two weeks

how do you cope /pfg/?

>>50767924
You want a Dynamancer. They gain Momentum whenever they deal or take damage, and taking damage gives them a scaling AC and Damage bonus for a round.

They're from Gonzo 2.

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>>50768018
Embrace the inevitable and surrender to despair is how.

>>50768018
We might play on new years day
In total hangover after eve

>>50767970
there's plenty of love for it considering it has barely started up and gets brought up every other day

>>50767970
>Start reading Goblin Slayer
>"Giant eyes with their unhallowed names"
>Unhallowed
>Read: Copyrighted

Haaaaaaaaah.

>>50767994
As far as I've read so far, like half the waifus have been murdered by goblins.

>>50767908
>He doesn't fit as a Ranger outside of Favored Enemy
>Rangers don't even get Heavy Armor.
>Wasn't there a rangery Fighter archetype?
>Vengeful Hunter
>Yeahboi.wav
>No Favored Enemy
>Also loses Heavy Armor
>Also loses Weapon Training completely.

Goddamnit.

...

I tell you what though, he COULD be a Vigilante. Use the Consumed archetype from the jollybooks. He's not whoever he was before, he's just The Goblin Slayer.

>Focused Hunter Archetype
>Favored Terrain, not Enemy

So close to perfection. Ah well.

Pretty sure there's a trait or something that gives you a minor bonus vs goblins.

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Why is /pfg/ so whiny and demanding why when it comes to chargen?

/pfg/ demands that games be high point buy, level 3 gestalt games with all Spheres and DSP allowed, and like half a dozen free feats. Because all characters should have no weaknesses and be retardedly strong and flexible?

/pfg/ then wanks to theorycrafting about the awesome builds you can make with that generous chargen. But then, when someone else comes along and uses DSP and Spheres to completely bust the level 3 gestalt balance, /pfg/ throws a tantrum and whines about overpowered characters, even when /pfg/ was theorycrafting gestalt builds earlier. Big fucking surprise, DSP + Spheres is stupid strong at its level 3-8 sweet spot.

What's the obsession with gestalt + high powered chargen in general?

>>50768272
As with every time someone says 'why does /pfg/ do X, but then does Y'

It's almost like /pfg/ isn't just one person.

Also as for the first part, hanging out here and being vocal enough to have input on them means that an individual is likely well versed in 1pp stuff and is branching out into 3pp for better/different material.

>>50768272
It's a lot of power at their fingertips/claws/tentacles/hooves brony. People want it and think they deserve it after all the work they put in.

But no GM would ever allow it for long.

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>>50768272
This is my favourite /pfg/ meme.

>>50768272
1. were not one entity. i personally dont mind playing without any of that shit.

2. its mostly because the baseline of optimizing here makes it so certain people on pfg are going to create no weakness characters even if its only level one with a 20 point buy and 1pp.

making a level 3 campaign with these bonuses make it so pretty much any builds decently viable so people can focus more on playing the character they want to play rather than worry about whether theyre gonna have fun or not.

because lemme tell you playing with a level 1 wizard with INT to every skill that matters, cheesing a craft build and having ~5,000 gp when you just want to play a regular martial isn't very fun.

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>>50768309
>a level 1 wizard with INT to every skill that matters, cheesing a craft build and having ~5,000 gp when you just want to play a regular martial isn't very fun.

Level 1 wizards are really weak, and they can't even take Craft Wondrous Item.

What are you smoking, pal?

>>50768309
Even with that said, figuring out a way to make something really powerful from as early as level 1 is always gratifying in a way starting out at later levels will never give.

>>50768309
>making a level 3 campaign with these bonuses make it so pretty much any builds decently viable

It also makes the upper power ceiling insaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanely high for level 3 chars.

>>50768328
If DSP is allowed, then you just make a level 1 initiator who ALL DAY murders every enemy better than a Paizo martial ever could.

>Mapping for my next session of Iron Gods
>One of the monsters in the way is a thing called a Ghelarn, an alien aberration from another world that survived in the biodome of the crashed ship
>Cool gimmick monster, 30 ft tremorsense, trap you in sticky goo then eat you up like a Sarlacc pit monster
>10 dex, combat reflexes

Fuck it, I'm just giving it Weapon Focus (Tentacles).

>>50768309
>1. were not one entity. i personally dont mind playing without any of that shit.

Hah, yeah right.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/50531794/#50532999

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/50572776/#50573058

Both of these guys got bitched out because "reeeeee no PoW/no SoP/no full casters/no full manifesters, even though other 3pp is allowed."

Why is /pfg/ such turboautists about having such a retard strong power level?

>>50768334
That's why people get bent out of shape when someone takes advantage of it to do that.

Some people see an opportunity to experiment with weird and wonderful builds that normally you just can't do without being completely inadequate involving things like swashbucklers or rogues or fighters, taking inefficient or just plain bad archetypes or feats and still doing okay.

And then others just see a chance to make their numbers even bigger.

The first party gets upset at the second party for this.

>>50768379
>Both of these guys

You know, when people say /pfg/ isn't just one person, that doesn't make it just TWO people either, dumbass.

>>50768389
>Some people see an opportunity to experiment with weird and wonderful builds that normally you just can't do without being completely inadequate involving things like swashbucklers or rogues or fighters, taking inefficient or just plain bad archetypes or feats and still doing okay.

These guys would be better served by a gestalt game that DIDN'T go "lol, use all the DSP and Spheres you want!"

>>50768396
It's not two guys bitching.

It's two guys getting bitched at by THE REST of /pfg/. Look at that ton of responses.

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>>50768379
If someone bitches about you not letting them be OP in a GESTALT game, then just ignore them.

On a different topic; How cute are Barbarians allowed to be?

>>50767598
They work differently. In PF, being at half wounds is equivalent to being at 0 HP.

>>50768324
>level 1 wizards are weak

this meme again

color spray invalidates 90% of the shit youre gonna fight level one

i dont do crafting so i couldnt tell you how it worked but i know that he had half on items via crafting it.

>>50768328
i dont find making martials from level one 1pp very fun personally mostly because theyre the biggest recipients of "rusty dagger shanktown" since they gotta be the ones in melee range checking all the shit.

plus youre mainly restricted to just hitting people with a big stick.

>>50768334
yeah, yeah. but it makes the floor a lot higher too.

we have shit like living grimoire and spiked chain users in hv and rotjr because the painful unviability of their builds are supplemented with all of the extra shit.

>>50768406
No no no.

These two guys were separate GMs banning options like full casters, initiators, etc.

The rest of /pfg/ bitched them out because "Reeeeeee I wanna be an initiator/a full caster!"

>>50768397
Well pfg is dsp fanclub because people fantasise about playing not-dnd fantasy...
With dnd ruleset still as base

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>>50768411
>color spray invalidates 90% of the shit youre gonna fight level one

1. You have to get close. Go make that concentration check, boyo.
2. They can make their saves anyway. Anyone who survives will gank the wizard.
3. Doesn't work against anything immune to mind-affecting, like skeletons and zombies and shit.
4. Party unfriendly.
5. Spell slots are limited as fuck.

It's certainly less effective than sending in the PoW guy to murder everyone ALL DAY.

>i dont do crafting so i couldnt tell you how it worked but i know that he had half on items via crafting it.
Horseshit, wizards can't even have Craft Wondrous Item at level 1 or 2.

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How good are Color Spray/Grease/Sleep at level 1 really?

Don't wizards have few spell slots and take a whole round to cast Sleep?

>>50768272
>/pfg/ demands that games be high point buy, level 3 gestalt games with all Spheres and DSP allowed, and like half a dozen free feats.

Low point buy nerfs all the weakest classes while doing almost nothing to hurt wizards and clerics. And many people do not, in fact, care much for rusty dagger shanktown, so level 3 is a reasonable starting point.

Everything else you said is just flat-out bullshit. Although I wish I could find a GM who allows psionics without playing with autists from /pfg/ or having to beg for it.

>>50768451
i made good use of it even in an eberron campaign - and eberron is like 90% undead and constructs which are immune to most of that shit

>>50768452
>Low point buy nerfs all the weakest classes while doing almost nothing to hurt wizards and clerics.

Up until, like, 25 point buy, yeah.

But then you have retards like >>50758619 who want 32 point buy gestalt, which is completely fucking unnecessary.

>>50768462
So basically, you just spammed Grease at level 1?

Big deal, an initiator could've been one shotting like two CR 1s at a time, maybe even CR 2s with the right stance.

Does anyone actually follow the rules regarding cure potions having to be shoved down the throat of a creature for it to take effect? I mean, it's essentially a concoction that draws from the realm of positive energy, so ruling that it HAS to go down what your equivalent of a throat is seems a bit silly, magic-wise.

The only reason I ask is because recently my group was in a bit of a pickle with undead and one character wanted to throw a potion of Cure Light at the zombo to deal it Positive Energy damage. Our DM ended up ruling against it but apparently by RAW you have to swallow it to have it do anything.

>>50768430
hence the 90%

they can make their saves is irrelevant, POW guys can just miss all their strikes by that logic.

if you aim properly being party unfriendly doesn't really matter.

plus you can still pop shots with a crossbow or acid splash if you want.

this might be personal preference but ill take the dude who can stun an entire mob and end 2-3 encounters singlehandedly rather than some dude who can cut everyone down one by one.

and i don't know what he did. i legitimately don't. but i'm not a liar and can try to dig up his sheet if you want.

>>50768465
32 point buy outside of D&D, which starts off your point buy so that you go up from 8 instead of 10, is completely absurd and anyone who suggests it should be mocked heartily.

>>50768470
Potions are to be drunk.

OILS are applied to the outside of something. So if you threw an OIL of Cure Light Wounds at a zombo, it would work.

>>50768475
>they can make their saves is irrelevant, POW guys can just miss all their strikes by that logic.

PoW guys' strikes are more reliable, actually.

>plus you can still pop shots with a crossbow or acid splash if you want.
You mean doing jack shit.

>this might be personal preference but ill take the dude who can stun an entire mob and end 2-3 encounters singlehandedly rather than some dude who can cut everyone down one by one.
Bitch, please, go look at the initiator in a damage stance popping three enemies in one turn with Minute Hand + Scything Strike/Tidal Blade.

>>50768411
>Color spray

I know that sleep and color spray are popular as spells that are OP, but let's be honest, they're save or die still. Most of the time, there's gonna be a 30-20% chance your opponent's gonna save at the bare minimum, and we all know that means 100% of the time when it's actually time to play because everyone has shit rolls. Know what else kills a creature at level 1? A raging barbarian with 24 strength hitting at +9 for 2d6+10 damage.

At level 1, a wizard is weak as fuck if his nuke fails, which is somewhat likely. Much more likely than his chances of evading that barbarian's swing.

Does /pfg/ play society at all?

forever DM syndrome is killing me guys
help
i want to play my qt witchwolf magus that just wants to study leylines

>>50768470
Way to waste a potion when your characters should just be packing around holy water.

>>50768494
i was never talking about wizards vs initiators.

i was talking about a 1PP campaign where i tried to play a martial. hence no initiating, so i'm not sure why that's in the conversation.

>>50768495
the thing is that whilst the Barbarian probably has shit for social skills, knowledges and all that other shit. the wizard also has usefulness out of combat, particularly if they also use that INT to CHA stuff as well.

/pfg/, how do you avoid getting lost in the weeds of character creation and end up not liking the final character you put together? Especially for games that don't start at the very low end I feel like I spend all my time in character creation making something that's mechanically fun and then I have trouble getting into the actual character when it comes time to play.

How would you make an interesting high-level pathfinder character and still feel connected enough to them that you can roleplay as that character?

>>50768515
DM also ruled that those in the immediate area got healed 1 HP with the splash so it wasn't all bad. That said, we had no idea we'd run into undead so it's not like we had time or resources to prepare.

>>50768510
Is that like the DnD play groups? How do you look them up, 'cause this dude/tte >>50768514 looks like they could use it.

>>50768531
Always pack holy water, alchemist fire, and rope.

>>50768550
and a cold iron dagger for the fey mishaps that may occur.

>>50768514
Apply to a game on roll20 my dude

>>50768530
I don't know about anyone else here, but personally I work off of some kind of gimmick that my character has and base his personality and life around that. For instance, one character I'm playing for my group's Vengeance campaign is a loony Cleric of Urgathoea that my DM has likened to Robby Rotten in personality, and I built his backstory around the fact that he's an Undead Lord, saying that his personal undead minion is his brother.

Another option is to go the "build a pop fiction character" route, which I got help with a few days back. I essentially wanted to build Sanji from One Piece, and in doing so created a build based around what I think would be fitting for that character.

Now granted, both of these are low level character creations, but the same general idea still applies. Just try not to overthink things and let the creativity within you flow, and whatever you think sticks, just roll with it.

>>50768569
i don't like strangers anon
they bully me for my stupid accent

>>50768522
>i was talking about a 1PP campaign where i tried to play a martial. hence no initiating, so i'm not sure why that's in the conversation.

If it's 1pp, then there's no way the wizard was crafting much at level 1, let alone earn 5k gp.

>>50768556
Seriously, 2 GP is gonna save you a lot of headaches when it comes to killing that CR 1/2 fey with DR 5/Cold Iron.

I keep reminding this lesson to my players.

>>50768579
>accent
Who said you need to talk to anyone. Find a game that let's you use text.
The dealing with strangers is something you might need to suck up if no one you know wants to GM for the group.

>>50768603
>text
people.... do this? how do you even keep track
like how do you know when people are doing stuff in character or out of character
and wouldn't combat turns take forever

>>50768586
it was something with stacking gold gen traits, ruling an ion stone as a "piece of jewelry" for some sort of other shit

i dont remember the specifics dude. i dont even remember if it was wondrous items or not, nor did i specify it.

>>50768469
Color Spray ended encounters, full stop.

>>50768613
The standard practice is to have different rooms. One in character, one out.

Also, combat CAN potentially take longer, but it can also take less since there's less tangents.

What CAN take longer is RPing. Not for the time it takes, but the amount. A lot of people (myself included) find it much easier to RP over text, being able to express themselves in a MUCH wider variety of ways and as different characters. So for those people, text frees them to do a lot more RPing.

My 3-person party has spent entire SESSIONS dicking about and RPing.

>>50768613
Once you're used to it, text can go real fast.

Of course, this depends on everyone knowing what they are doing. The more abilities and maps you use, the longer it takes.

>>50768613
>like how do you know when people are doing stuff in character or out of character
Generally you either mark the OOC stuff in some way (like putting it in parenthesis, for instance) or use a separate channel for OOC.

>and wouldn't combat turns take forever
Only if you have indecisive or inattentive players, and even then it's not THAT bad.

>>50768632
>>50768633
>>50768636
i guess i'm just confused as to where you'd split chat
only IC stuff in like, roll20 chat, and OOC in something else?

and what about the DM, do they tell people it's their turn, or do you have to look at the turn counter?

i've RP'd in MMOs before, but this just seems confusing

>>50768651
Well, we personally didn't use Roll20's chat for anything but rolling. It's too cluttered for actual words of any length and widening it chews up map real-estate. We used IRC for the actual chatrooms.

And Roll20 does have a turn-order tracker, so you generally keep an eye on that. And pay attention to the turn order and who's doing what basically.

Initiative doesn't change for the most part, so when Throdgar goes, and you know you're after Throdgar, then you know when you're going don'tcha?

>>50768672
oh see i've never used IRC
that sounds like it would be easier with 2 monitors, huh

i guess i could try joining a game at some point

I like maptools
If only it wasnt java based

>>50768678
It would be easier with two monitors, but I made do with just one.

The icon for my irc flashes when there's new messages, so I only need to tab over when I know someone's said something.

A webclient IRC would also alert you when something new is said, and then you're only popping between tabs, not windows.

>>50768690
i see
i'll have to join a game and see how everyone else talks and get a feel for how i'd need to do it
thanks
my autistic little french ass will go now

>>50768700
If it's a french accent, I wouldn't make fun of you for it. And anyone who does is a spod.

And hey, once you figure out IRC, you can just come hang with us if you want. It's just #pfg on Rizon.

>>50768630
Limited slots, wizard has to get in close for a concentration check, any enemy who makes the save will fuck the wizard, etc.

>>50768700
I've run a few, I can send you a few logs and maps if you're interested.

>>50768737
that would be helpful so i could at least see what it's typically like

"But x spell..." seems like learned helplessness
Even mtg legacy bans cards
Why not ban disruptive wizard spells?

>>50768755
https://discord.gg/2XRX8

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>>50768760
I do.

Paragon Surge and the Create Pit spells are banned in my game.

>>50768760
Because level 1-2 wizards are total shit.

>>50768793
Make magic missile into cantrip

>>50768792
What if you take the archetype to become HOLE ALCHEMIST, THE ALCHEMIST OF HOLES?

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>>50768835
They can do better than a Marvel D-list villain.

>>50768760
I have a decently extensive banned spells list. Basically anything that is unclear in its description or its interaction with other spells.

>>50768469
Boo-fucking-hoo, you know how you "beat" an initiator like that? Throw mobs at him. If he deletes 2 goblins a turn, throw 8 goblins at him.

You know who loves that? The wizard with Color Spray, Grease, and Sleep, who now have all these juicy targets to fuck over so the other party members (BECAUSE AGAIN, TO GET THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL, THERE'S A WHOLE PARTY HERE AND NOT JUST WIZARD + WARDER) can murder the goblins.

>>50768915
Why are your only enemies low-Will schmucks who bunch up together?

>>50768915
It's honestly better on resources to just have everyone plain kill the bad guys.

Grease, Color Spray, Sleep, etc. help, but they've all got their downsides, and a level 1 wizard has seriously limited spell slots.

>>50768926
Is there a high-will schmuck at level 1 that's handy? Low levels almost always seem like hordes of little shits to me.

>>50768926
Tell me what high-Will enemies are around at 1st and 2nd level. Also ones that are both high Will and high Reflex, since you'd still have Grease to mess with things. Seriously, even Skeletons get fucked over by Grease.
And you're complaining that "oh no an initiator is so much better than a wizard" when it's clear that each one has their niche. Wizards get rid of or otherwise incapacitate groups, Warders kill bosses/individuals dead to make sure the wizard doesn't get shanked.

Question for any one from Dreamscarred or just anyone who is around who'd know: can the Rubato Bard enter Animus Adept without picking up the Tap Animus feat?

Rubato Bards qualify for one of the pre-reqs (Animus Healing) without needing Tap Animus; the feat specifies having an animus pool or equivalent ability (such as a rubato bard's tempo class feature), but the Animus Adept class itself doesn't include that language and says that you 'must possess an animus pool (either by a class feature or the Tap Animus feat).' On the other hand, the class itself goes on to talk about how 'if you previously had levels in a class that grants an animus pool', blah blah blah, so maybe it's not required.

Either way it looks like Rubato Bards end up with two/three pools of points to track, namely bard song charges, tempo and animus. Is that right?

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>>50768944
Fey - Atomies, Brownies, Gremlins, Nixies

Monstrous humanoids - Griorths, Mongrelmen

Bards, Investigators, Monks, Vigilantes

I'm reaching with a lot of these.

>>50768937
How high of a Will save are you looking for?

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/deep-one
>Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +5

>>50768760
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t6ov&page=1?Dispelling-Myths-The-CasterMartial-Disparity

See myth 3

>>50769064
He says that but I don't really believe it
Every powerful spell is not disruptive

>>50769097
It's not just about disruption, it's about doing entire regions of things that noncasters can't, while noncasters have very little to call their own.

>>50768734
>limited slots
5 minute adventuring day

>wizard has to get in close for a concentration check
15 foot cone. You can stand just behind and to the side of an ally and still hit up to six enemies in front. Even if circumstances permit say, half of that, that's usually most of an encounter at that level

>any enemy who makes the save will fuck the wizard
why? The caster's done nothing to open himself up more than usual except move a little bit closer - and not every spell even requires him to do this. And if he hasn't moved yet, he can just fuck off behind the tank.

>>50769115
So?
That is okay as long as it does not leave people bitter
Editing spells is not a sin

>>50769119
>5 minute adventuring day
Literally not a thing.

>15 foot cone. You can stand just behind and to the side of an ally and still hit up to six enemies in front.
This is only sufficient if you're adventuring in the tightest dungeon ever.

>The caster's done nothing to open himself up more than usual except move a little bit closer
By "a little bit closer," you mean "within 15 damn feet."

>>50767650
Arcforge was annoyingly incomplete and abandoned. This made me sad, but it is fact.

*stingy* is paizo's tech rules main problem, so being stingy with the tech is pretty much the exact opposite of what would fix it.

Homebrew.... you'll need much of.

>>50769119
>5 minute adventuring day

When would there be a 5 minute adventuring day

what the fuck

For reasons that aren't furry, I really fucking need to make a magical beast anthropomorphic or close enough to it. How the fuck do I pull this off

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>>50768406
>how cute are barbarians allowed to be?

The answer is yes.

>>50769216
>Literally not a thing.
Maybe not LITERALLY, but games where you have one, MAYBE two combat encounters over the course of a day with possibly some wilderness stuff or traps thrown in for a good measure are depressingly common.

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>>50768510
PFS?

We might seem like a bunch of turboautist retards who are so gamestarved we'd suck cock for dice, but even WE have SOME standards, anon...

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>>50768530
I... wait.
How do you end up with a character you don't like?
This is genuinely confusing me, and actually there's ONE person in a group I'm in who's doing that as well, and all I can think of is that it's a combination of them being THAT much of an asshole and hating themselves THAT much (both of those *are* verified) that their brain cannot accept the concept of ever being satisfied with something that it sabotages them every step of the way.

>which would explain the whole 'istrans' diatribe it keeps spouting when, as it turns out, getting its dick chopped off and replaced by plastic surgery fixed nothing of the things it had very loudly and consistently told us was the problem that needed fixing

That person HATES themselves. Maybe you do too?

Because when I make a character, I'm selecting everything every step of the way; at any moment, ANY MOMENT AT ALL I can go "well that I don't/wouldn't like let's go with this instead", and can slowly cut or add things (it's slow because we gotta choose carefully to stay within the rules, but I was gonna waste that time anyways right?) until I can stand back, look at it and think "that's *right*"

So, does your brain loathe you deeply? might that be it?

>>50769284
Is there something wrong with it? My FLGS runs Pathfinder Society on Mondays and I was thinking of joining in, since I'm new in the area and I figure I need to get to know the local gaming scene before I try starting something of my own up.

>>50769216
>literally not a thing
literally not an argument

>This is only sufficient if you're adventuring in the tightest dungeon ever
so aside from the fact that dungeons are very often 5 or 10 feet wide, melee enemies will constantly crowd around your tank for a juicy AoE. It's just how squares work.

>By "a little bit closer," you mean "within 15 damn feet."
that's still farther than a martial can full attack in the same round, or even move without provoking from the fighter next to you. Being a wizard doesn't mean you don't still have to pay attention to battlefield positioning (except when you don't) but generally unless you're close enough that they can 5ft step to you, they're not getting past in the one round it takes for you to back off. And color spray is a really short range spell. At levels 1-4, your 'Close' Range is roughly 35 feet i.e. longer than the average person can reach with a move action.

>>50769347
they are no fun allowed personified.

>>50768613
Text is best ... once you're used to it? I had no idea you even needed to get used to it it's just so... default.

Here's the advantages:
>IC/OOC can easily be split either from marking off (shit in "quotes" vs *actions* vs OOC shit in [brackets]) or from having separate rooms/channels outright. Less confusion, less timeloss from tangenting

>The GM WARNED us he couldn't do accents. But in text, you can use your imagination, instead of every bar-wench, every prostitute, every dragon and every king sounding exactly like Quagmire.

>That lusty princess-knight paladin in your party? You can imagine is one now. Because when the player talks, it's less "princess" and more "Stop Mumbling, Mr.Bean"

>People who spend all day at their computer type pretty fast, and most of the party may be a lot more eloquent with text than they would stumbling over half those words with speech.

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>>50768530
I'm having the same problem at the moment. I had a character I really liked, I had motivations and personality, but one day I decided 'I'm going to change all this around for no reason' and ended up with a character I'm having trouble connecting to. I tried to get him killed but the dice wouldn't allow it. The character was originally a catboy (like the Mi'qote from ffxiv because I thought they were cool) with a genuine love for adventure who worshiped Cayden Cailen and I was extremely worried the people in the group would make fun of me for basically playing an anime neko.

>>50769371
I'll take your word for it, but is there anywhere I could read up a bit more on complaints people have had, or get a bit of elaboration on what exactly they do wrong?

>>50768678
While everything's better with two monitors, I have no trouble at all following, and I'm on a 13" workbook.

I got tabs to my character sheet and relevant classes/systems, I got the pdfs open in foxit, and I got a window with roll20 (could be a tab but faster reflex to just alt-tab between it and sheet so I do that), and of course I got IRC or Skype depending on the campaign.

>>50769238
Well, do you have any better ideas?

>>50768991
You need animus healing but it counts.

>>50769401
As a matter of fact...
If you're not going to be using mechs anyways, and you're going to need homebrew anyhow, this here was/is a better version of both incarnum AND the newer akashics that's tech.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8693.0

The power level is on par with newer psionic archetypes, initiating archetypes and the like so don't pair it with two CRB monks and a Daevic, though.

>>50769401
>>50769422
Just to note it's late-era 3.5, so you'll need to do the skills-compression/swap when looking at classes (like "spot/search/listen are perception in pathfinder) but that's about the extent of it.

>>50769368
>literally not an argument
Tell me when you have 5 minute adventuring days.

>so aside from the fact that dungeons are very often 5 or 10 feet wide
You know that even Paizo's dungeons have rooms wider than that, right?

>melee enemies will constantly crowd around your tank for a juicy AoE
Great, now your melee friends are in the Color Spray area.

>that's still farther than a martial can full attack in the same round, or even move without provoking from the fighter next to you
Full attacks don't matter at level 1 unless you're a natural attacker or a Rapid Shot guy.

>>50769430
I don't get to, the cleric tells us that.

Also anyone who can't aim their AoE's is trash and doesn't deserve to even be playing. I mean that. They, as a person, were tossed out from under a shoe by the other scum because even it has standards.

>>50769329

Eh, nah. I think I just have problems where I get caught up in the character building metagame but lose sight of 'making something I'm going to have fun playing/relating to'; I can write up a background for the character but it feels artificial, and once I get into actual play it feels shitty.

>>50769442
>I don't get to, the cleric tells us that.

You mean the initiator with Silver Crane giving unlimited noncombat healing for free with a level 1 strike.

>>50769393
Pathfinder Society has hyper-restrictive extremely rigid rules, rules which often lead to the largest complaints about 3.PF edition.

Many of the '3rd party' classes and stuff fix a lot of issues with pathfinder, and PFS doesn't allow them. They also get otherwise sensible feats nerfed into the ground because some faggot abuses them (weapon cords with guns) and because its a PFS game they can't say "no" to that particular thing, thus it gets nerfed.

The few people that *do* play it, tend to be total char-op faggots and will absolutely show-up your [poorly built gnome fighter] and rub your face in how you shouldn't run that thing (which you shouldn't but these guys tend to be extra dickish about it).

They *MUST* adhere to the PFS book. Which means rule 0 goes out the window, and rule 0 and the broad amount of options that the what 14 years of 3.5/pf compatable stuff and 3rd party has put out are what makes this edition actually fun.

It goes back to basically what amounts to 3.5, core rulebook only, worst / most retarded interpretations of rules.

>>50769387
Never give up on your catboy dreams.

>>50769451
Make the character before the background, and fit the background TO that build.

Thing is, a lot of classes and abilities, when you look at them have/require a certain mindset.

Take a wizard for example. Does a person who abhors studying and has no intellectual curiosity become a wizard? FUCK NO! They have no aptitude for it other than possibly a high intelligence score, AND they'd hate every fucking second on the way to becoming one.

Likewise, developing certain kinds of powers can either stem FROM having a particular outlook or system of belief, OR can lead to one. It's not just a matter of "and then lilly panicked, incinerated the bad person, and discovered she was a sorcerer, the end". Shit like this *CHANGES* you at your core. The ability to waggle a finger and have all the laundry does completely alters how you view chores, both in terms of "why is everyone taking their fucking time" and in terms of "why would I pay someone else" or "you can't even do THAT instantly? oh, you must be one of the slow kids". And that's just fucking prestidigitation.

What happens when a child produces light at will? Try getting your kid used-to and no longer scared of the dark when they can dispel the natural one at-will. Try convincing your child NOT to take some insane risks once their psychic ability starts coalescing into some kind of pseudo power-armor. MOMMY WOULD REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DIDN'T SWIM IN THE VOLCANO JIMMY

Even fucking styles; you don't start specializing in Scarlet Throne maneuvers willy-nilly. You had to take interest in it AND its weapons... People don't do shit in a vacuum. Most decisions we make are on the backs of previous events and decisions.

So, I'm running a Barb/monk gestalt with no alignment restrictions.

I'm thinking about going for huge DR DR by going into the Student of Iron feat tree to gain Untwisting Iron Strength and Untwisting Iron Skin, combined with barb's DR nets me 13 or more DR at level 13, 15 or more if I spend a ki point on more DR. As for the item breaking requirement, I'll probably just carry around a few metal bars at all times, and snap into a slim jim whenever necessary.

I'll probably also pick up Flesh Wound which will effectively allow me to nullify any one attack that deals less than 40 dmg, per round.

I'm also planning to go for the Come and Get Me stuncheese, but I'm sure there will be enemies with high enough saves to still hit me, hence why I'm stacking DR.

My GM has okayed this idea, but what do you guys think?

>>50769455
Long as he's hitting a creature, you mean.
but HP doesn't recover yer smites, nor ability damage, nor spell slots or even his own "infinite counter use for 1 round once today".

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>>50769387
You sicken me anon. You could have been a spartan catboy drinking merrily and curling up by the fire with you're best adventuring pals. What is wrong with you?!

>>50769552
That moogle's humping the mailbox

>>50769518
What do you intend to do that's actually useful though? Hell, what level are you even playing at, cause you might never even see a level-13-payoff for your trouble.

>>50769566
Currently level 5, GM has said that this will be a fairly long campaign.

As for what I'll be doing aside from being hard to damage, I'll have a bunch of options for mobile full attacks, like pounce if I have a straight line, and flying jump kick if I don't. I'm still considering what other ki stuff I'll want.

>>50769422
But the whole point was fantasy game + robutts.

>>50769593
Well this offers cybers,etc, and is a good fit for robots.

If you wanted mechs, that part of arcforge IS functional, but the weapon systems for them aren't (you'll have to mount bigger normal ones and the slot system was kinda subpar).

Good morning /pfg/!

Bumping these for those who might still be interested in a game

http://www.strawpoll.me/11905158
http://www.strawpoll.me/11905768

>>50769612
Don't worry you've got plenty of interested.
I've been meaning to ask for a while, but if 'some' 3pp is allowed, will that include legendary kineticists or the avowed?

I wanna try something not psionic and not initiating... but fuck vancian with a 10ft pole, I just wanna blast all day without having to think about it. Thinking's for intrigue.

>>50769649

In all honesty, I have not read those yet. I have been meaning to. I read the vigilante one and I think it is the same person doing those two so I will prolly allow it. It looks like it will be a knight/intrigue theme though so I am not sure how useful all day blasting really will be.

>>50769668
It is.

As for how useful you might as well ask how useful knowing how to sword would be.
We'll worry about that.

>>50769690

Not so sure knowing how to sword will be all that useful either! Im going to spend some time tonight and tomorrow writing up a sort of path I want the players to take and then work on fleshing it out. I think it will be fun.

>>50769707
dude you may want to avoid "all talky all the time" especially with the danger of things like diplomancy builds.

"he has +60 but I have +70" by level 6 will be pretty much a mind-control dickwave contest.

>>50769707
Really if you want to run a campaign that doesn't make at least semi-regular use of pathfinder's combat system, you should run it in a system that isn't pathfinder.

PF doesn't have a solid enough ruleset to support anything out of combat without either homebrew systems or defaulting to freeform.

>>50769808
You need rules to tell you how to roleplay, anon?

>>50769847
Yes and no. You don't need rules to talk, but when it becomes "alright, roll diplomacy see how you did", there's this vast gulf between "fighter almost managed to say words" and "the bard instantly convinces them to chop off their own balls and do the chicken dance".

It's... not great for nuance when focused on too much.

>>50769857
>>50769847
>>50769808
>>50769726

No stop. I dont want anyone figuring out my formative ideas again. It should be comfy and fun, not meta'd and boring.

>>50769857
So your gripe isn't the rules, but the manner in which they are applied.
To wit, how is that different from other games where dice rolls determine your success? WoD has a fairly robust social subsystem, but the same gulf applies between a mortal legbreaker who has very little towards social skills and talents, versus a BP 4 Daeva who can charm a pissed off werewolf in killing form (long enough to run like hell).
I will agree that there are far less... niggly ways to add a shitton of +1/2s to your dice pool compared to 3.pf, tho.

Two questions /pfg/

My PC has currently turned into a amazing magical beast. I want to keep all the benefits of this form but also like have hands and stuff to use my sword with? help.

Related to the above, my base land speed is now 300ft. The flying fuck can do with a high speed in PF? is there any way to convert that into damage at all?

>>50769898
Actually that IS a problem in WoD often enough as well: while it's generally considered unacceptable and just-not-done to use socials against fellow players (lest some attacks start being OOC), it can easily mean that the one ultra-focused character always gets his way.

If you have several "lords" each with their own counties,etc, then one of them will always have laws/etc/etc/etc going his way, while the others just suck it.

One horrific example would be an Exalted game I was in where at some point we were trying to run a city.

Or, as we very very quickly found out, the Zenith ran a city, and anything we said he didn't agree with simply did not get to exist, and such ideas supporters suddenly never agreed.

It lasted about 3 sessions from that point before we just quit.

>>50770054
>while it's generally considered unacceptable and just-not-done to use socials against fellow players (lest some attacks start being OOC), it can easily mean that the one ultra-focused character always gets his way.
It's actually far more accepted in WoD because the game IS strongly about social circumstances, and there are actively defenses you can take against the aggressions of others, compared to 3.pf where you have no real recourse. Everything from your native defenses against outside influences, to rotes, charms, even something as banal as spending a point of willpower to shrug them off for a scene.
Add to that, the npcs of a setting are just as often opposed to someone building influence in such a way, and will plot to strip them of their throne.
A social genius in WoD is far easier to deal with, due to the both the rules AND setting of the game, than a diplomancer in 3.pf.

>>50769894

The campaign idea isn't ruined because we figured it out, it still sounds amazing. It's kind of like how we all know what happens in Jade Regent, but we're eating each other for a spot because the journey to those ends are just SO COOL.

>>50770300
>we're eating each other

Eagle pls

>>50770054

Monsterhearts does PvP social combat near-flawlessly, for whatever that's worth.

>>50770121
>compared to 3.pf where you have no real recourse
What retard GM lets one PC use Diplomacy to influence another PC? Even Intimidate shouldn't be able to do more than demoralize a PC in combat.

>>50770361
B-but gay conversion

>>50770300

Personally I'm just excited to see the characters /pfg/ plans to make for it!

>>50770747

I cant believe someone is excited to run one for /pfg/

>>50770635
>not allowing social pvp so players can abuse each other and you can subtly kill your shitty campaign and go back to wishing you had a good players

>>50770791

What makes you say that? I've been in three separate campaigns with /pfg/ regulars and all of them were a blast.

All you've gotta do is bop them on the forehead if their overactive imaginations try to create characters beyond the scope or tone of the campaign.

>>50770635
I mean in total.
Npcs in 3.pf have no great individual defenses against social-fu, whereas in WoD, it is inherently contested

>>50770921
Well Anon
They did make a whole book
about just introducing social defences, social dueling and such and such
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/intrigue

>>50770964
>>50770921
No wait, wrong section.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/social-conflicts

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>15 point buy for stats. This is Reign of Winter! This AP is meant to be hard! Now, having said that, I would highly advise against min/maxing your stats. Not only could it hurt you, but the GM will see through your shenanigans and will likely not consider you.

>>50770921
While that's technically true, it'd take a real dumb/lazy GM to just treat Diplomacy as a "you win" switch.

A PC can't waddle around going "suck my nuts fuckmunch" and then say "B-b-b-but I rolled a 45 for Diplomacy!" when the GM has them sic the town guards on you. You're still supposed to be being persuasive and convincing, you don't get to use mind control just because MUH NUMBERS MUHFUGGA.

>>50771110
Don't let your GMs get burned too hard, too often.
Early intervention can save hobbies.
#GMSanityAwareness #Woah #Wow

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>>50771110
What game is this? The fuck does this even mean?

"Whoops, the wizard has a 14 intelligence and a 13 charisma, a real roleplayer would have a 10 in intelligence and a 20 in charisma. Nice try, satan!"

>>50771177

I always felt this was the case. Sure your numbers are high but that doesnt mean you can mind control people. No matter how high you roll you cannot convince certain people of certain things. You cannot convince someone that their home is now yours. You can persuade the king to go on a crusade but not give up his wealth and become a beggar.

>>50771234
>What game is this? The fuck does this even mean?

It's a PbP on Myth-Weavers made by a guy that clearly doesn't know what he's doing.

I'm looking forward to the horde of thirsty applicants.

>>50771240
Unfortunately it's that exact kind of abuse (and a newbie DM) that got Diplomacy essentially banned back in the first game I ever played in. One guy just spent the whole campaign bumping up Diplomacy with every feat, item, and "misunderstanding" (yeah, sure you did fucker) of the rules he could find.

DM got so sick of his shit that interpersonal skill rolls got ruined for everybody and suddenly a bunch of awkward high schoolers had to get a crash course in debate and public speaking. Not all that bad for roleplay, in a trial-by-fire sense, but shitty for anyone who wanted to actually put work into playing a charismatic character.

>>50771248
I'd play any Reign of Winter game on earth. But I won't play that.

Even Greta ain't worth that shit.

>>50771353

That is another thing, I would never penalize solid roleplaying with bad rolls.

>>50767924
A'ight, awake enough now, damn I had bad ideas last night. Maybe I can scrape this together into something entertaining, but now that I cleared my mind it seems like it'd be more hassle than it's worth. I need to broaden my mind when it comes to build s, because every time I do anything with PoW it involves stalker. In this case, Urban/Invulnerable Barbarian||Bushi Stalker, which doesn't hit the mark beyond "can take punishment"

Hot damn did my first try at posting this fuck up massively, let's try again.

>>50767969 #
I'll have to check it out. Is it worth asking for a TL;DR on what Avowed (and the old one pact) can do, or am I better served by waiting until I get time to just look for the pdf myself?

>>50768024 #
I remember that, dunno if the rest of it's something I want, though. It had love beams or something

>>50771372

Greta is a dumb Wolf and probably smelly too. She's a terrible waifu and only earns any recognition for actually being aggressive for the PC dick.

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>>50771451

>>50771451
Wolves aren't dumb or smelly!

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>>50771451

I don't know, I think she's pretty cute.

Who would you rather waifu?

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>>50771372
>remember I had a chance to play in a pretty sweet-looking RoW game but it flopped
>it could have been my fault in some part

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>>50771649
Tell us more, sempai.

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>>50771451

>>50771662
Already did in another thread, no use in agonizing over it further. It was just a miscommunication between players and GM.

I vaguely recall the option of using Vitalist/Tactitian Collective members' senses/position to manifest powers. Does that exist in DSP material or am I thinking of a different 3rd party?

Is there any way to survive a Life Leech Vitalist's Drain Health ability other than getting out of range or killing the Vitalist?

>>50771471
>>50771475
>>50771507

Greta is a mangy mutt that is so desperate for a man she's willing to toss herself at the first one to walk through those gates with a silver tongue and furry coat! The first one!

She's a huge dork that thinks big two-headed axes are actually useful, and her hair is ugly! Who even wears chain that tight? Look, they had to make it two separate bolts of chain because she just *had* to get the girls all perky and prominent, the hussy (or should I say, husky? Hurr hurr.)

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>>50771734

Ah. So you're a Baknarla fan. Say no more!

>>50771734

Dont forget, she is also small for a winter wolf, literally the runt of her pack

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>>50771734
>>50771788
Don't bully dogs!

>>50771800

Greta is not a dog, she's a wolf! You can bully wolves!

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>>50771829
Don't bully wolves either! They're nice!

>>50771759

You ever wonder if Greta and Baknarla get into arguments about what it means to be a wolf? I'm sure Greta doesn't appreciate Baknarla's slavish devotion to her husbando! She stole him first like a proper filthy scavenger, and she won't give up that bond without a fight!

>>50771853

Wolves are cowards that only pick on creatures weaker and sicklier than them. They're the bullies of the animal kingdom, and bullies need to be bullied! Especially Winter Wolves, the biggest bullies of all!

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>>50771879
Picking off the weak and the sick improves the herds. And by bullying the wolves you're now the biggest bully!

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>>50771879

I'm just not seeing it.

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I want to houserule the Agathiel Vigilante archetype to not be shit. How do I base it off the Transformation feat from Spheres of Power in such a way that it remains cool and unique? Obviously it should stay a "you have this one form that you can adjust slightly" archetype, but should it get more traits than would normally be available? How many talents (that have no SP cost) should it be allowed to take?

I was thinking something along the lines of
>At 2nd level, you gain Transformation and Hybrid Transformation instead of the 2nd level Vigilante Talent
>at 4th level you get Improved Transformation and can pick one talent with no SP cost to pull traits from
>instead of the normal scaling traits of improved transformation (1 every 5 levels) you get 1 + (1 every 4)
>can take a vigilante talent to bump this up by 2, but only as a one-time deal
>can pick an additional talent every 2 levels to pull traits off of, treat your level as your caster level, but you get no actual spherecasting

>>50771931
You could just use that animal transformation archetype from Legendary Vigilantes.

>>50771955
You mean the wildshape one that has a similar goal but is functionally completely different? (Single versatile transformation vs "Spell-less druid")

>>50771879
>teamwork is cowardice
how about you stop being alone bitch

>>50771863

Wolves do hunt together; maybe they'd get along.

>>50771703
It's untyped damage, so, hilariously enough, what you CAN do is get a source of hardness to protect you from the brunt of it.

For most intents and purposes however there's no choice, you just have to nuke the vitalist. Remember that by attempting to murder you with drain health, even if it's not very visible, THEY threw the first punch, and I recommend not giving the rest of the party a chance to misunderstand the situation: use something like Scarlet Throne's Blade of Perfection to end it then and there.

>>50772079
>you get flanked by two bitches, and now they both have a bonus to get you prone

>>50772118
Sometimes I wish I could draw, so I could make a funny scene involving this.

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>>50772118
>Greta and Baknarla both take Tandem Trip

>>50772079
>>50772118

Aren't wolves monogamous, and Greta explicitly wants an exclusive, long-term relationship? I don't see this ending well; they'll bring you down and then fight each other for mating rights.

>>50772320
Actually, I kinda wonder what types of men each of them prefer, because the two of them to feel like widely different types of girls. I'd imagine Baknarla would be for the "heroic savior" types, while Greta wants a strong man who knows his place on the totem pole.

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Hey all, few small updates from the playtest so far since I'm sorting through comments.

>Onslaught Blast now clarifies you only get static damage bonuses once per target (such as con bonus/Deadly Aim/etc).
>Focused blaster buffed at 19th level and also at 11th, letting you get some reduction if you standard action at 11th or 19th level.
>Focused blaster clarified that you get extra blasts for both haste and rapid shot.

There's probably going to be more changes as things go along, but these are the big ones at the moment.

>>50771800
>>50771853
>same .gif twice
How?

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>>50771696
Now you've GOT to tell us!

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>>50772384
They're different speeds

>>50772104
How do you get Hardness on demand?

>>50772421

There's plenty of websites that can help you with that.

>>50772421

Slow and steady works best for me. Rough is nice too sometimes

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>offered a temp job by a family member
>it's mon-friday nights, 7-9 PM start to anywhere from 6-10 AM the next day
>not a whole lot of pay but it would be SOMETHING to do and I know what I'm getting since I already did it for free for a week as a favor
>mfw I would have to tell my GM that I can basically no longer make sessions during the week until the new year, and that's if I'm lucky
>mfw we can't do games on saturday because the other player GMs that day
>mfw sunday the GM and I are in a different game, albeit one I'm not having as much fun in
>mfw have to choose between staying a jobless NEET or missing out on getting to play my autistic robot hunter

"Get a hobby" they said, "it'll be fun" they said. Clearly they didn't mean it.

>>50772483
Get a job you depressing NEET

>>50772104
My concern is from the GM side. The range can be absurd and doesn't need line of effect, so you can just establish the link and hide while draining the life out of them. I'm not seeing an effective countermeasure, so the archetype is likely to get banned outright.

>>50772345

Greta is a Winter Wolf, through and through - her interests are in a tough man with a clever tongue and cruel fingers, someone that could either please her or dominate her. It's part of her society's way of doing things, Winter Wolves are effectively equal rights Drow in that it's endless backstabbing and violence to be top dog, which means Greta would be either a rough top or power bottom, perfect for a Barbarian or, better yet, Paladin.

Baknarla is an Adlet, whose culture is vaguely similar to that of the Winter Wolves in that they believe their people are the best, only in this situation Baknarla is a bit of the odd one out in that she practically worships the newcomers from beyond the stars as her people's saviors. If you're asking me, you're right on the money that she'd want a valiant savior.

>>50772483
Robots have feelings too you asshole so get a job.

>>50772483
You're complaining over having more games than time... Welcome to adulthood.
Either rotate the weekend schedules to fit it or find a job that doesn't require you to work the coveted hours.

>>50772550
For that particular way of using it there ARE no countermeasures; you can try to break out of the collective. However you only get one will save per 24hr (if it fails), on average an hour of which is more than enough to just slaughter someone through it with the drain.

Anyone can leave at any time however if the vitalist does not have Unwilling Participant: The will save is ONLY for those forced into it this way (otherwise you just jack out): Even on a fail you can save at the same DC against any collective action you want to resist to be considered unwilling against it (but only that one time).

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>>50772569

>Bitches love paladins

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>>50772529
>>50772578
>>50772593
Perfectly reasonable, it was merely something sprung on me right after waking up, which I would then have to start on tonight. Needed to take a moment to clear my head, and shitposts are usually good for that, though this one was sloppier than usual.

In the meantime, how did everyone else's weekend go?

>>50772763
My group's GM was unavailable, so one of the players stepped up and did an arena style multistage encounter for us based on Monster Hunter. It was great, and I got to test out my backup character to find that Cornugon Smash is not that good for him.

>>50772578
Only if they're designed badly.

>>50772763

I went to the far side of town to see my mother, my grandmother, and various visiting relatives. It wasn't pleasant.

On the plus side, I've got a new game starting mid-January. Plenty of time to think about what to do for that!

>>50767952
Human Slayer
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Gruesome Butcher (Story)
Dedicated Adversary (Goblin)
Seething Hatred: Humanoid (goblinoid)
You could go Fighter 1 first to reduce the feat tax a bit.

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>>50767802
I only have the physical copy.

Look for "Ecology of the Gearforged" by Henry Brooks. It was in Kobold Quarterly, Winter 2011, Issue 16.

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>>50772569
>>50772739

>Witchwolf Paladin of Kurgess

You better believe there's going to be headpatting.

Are multiclassed characters ever stronger than just sticking to one? What are some examples? No gestalt.

>>50773115
Doing some kind of soulknife or aegis 4 into an initiator 16 with practiced initiator and the feat to get 4 more levels of mindblade/astral suit progression can be really nice.

>>50773134
Holy shit I have CRB and APG, slow down, slick

>>50771110
So? This is standart poinbuy for paizo-predegenerated character.
>It's a PbP
This is really a problem!

>>50773047
Actually, Vanguard Slayer fits pretty well considering how much he instructs his allies and keeps them out of trouble.

>>50773115

Some builds like to dip one or two levels into a class, usually fighter for some bonus feats of if you want a certain PrC but in PF usually going the straight class is the best route.

There are VMC (Variant Multi-Class) rules, which are kind of a mesh of two classes that can be fun.

>>50772763
I forgot basic aspects of character building and failed at combat.

>>50773194
I wanted to make a van helsing (Gabriel, not Abraham) character, and I was thinking of inquisitor, but dipping alchemist for a level or two for the bombs and flexibility of the extracts, and free brew potion feat. I didn't know if I'd be hamstringing myself, though.

>>50773115
They CAN be - for instance, Alchemist/Barbarian can reach silly high strength scores while still having utility from extracts and rage powers. Wizard VMC rogue/Arcane Trickster is arguably stronger than a single-classed Wizard, since wizards don't get much in the way of class features, with the caveat that levels in PrC don't grant free spells to your spellbook, so you'll need some other way of gaining them which can be problematic if your GM restricts availability of scrolls and other wizards.

In general, though, multiclassing is a bad idea unless you know exactly what you're doing.

>>50773115
Sorcerer (Crossblood Dragon and Orc) and Arcanist Wizard.

>>50773249
>free brew potion feat
Don't know that someone using this.

>>50773298
I like making consumables for the party ;~;

>>50773316
Consumables are just pissing money away. Wondrous items and fungal implants are where its at.

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>>50773370
>fungal implants are where its at.

>Willingly getting a yeast infection

>>50773370
>>50773401
Never even heard of fungal implants. Doesn't sound like something my character would want.

>>50773115
Okay. BASIC rules and combinations make multiclassing bad.

Like, if you go half fighter half wizard, you get a guy who's less good at fighting than a fighter, and is always WAY behind on save DCs for his spells making it easy for enemies to just laugh them off, plus doesn't have very strong spells AND had to split his stats like four fucking ways (three of them are fighter though).

However, this is where system mastery and optimization start to show themselves. The RIGHT combinations, supported by the RIGHT choices of feats, traits, archetypes or even race or weapon, can be *much* more capable overall than either alone.

An Aegis (3rd party class that creates a highly customizable armor system from psionic energy around itself) combined with a Warsoul (Path of War soulknife) can use two of his feats and one of his traits to keep everything running at full capacity on the soulknife, with a powerful low-level "boost" in mobility, utility and even a bit in defenses, from the Aegis. Even the Saving Throws are helped in this case too!

As you learn the system you will find many combinations - sometimes it's a specific pair of archetypes while the main classes would have utterly destroyed your viability - other times entire classes just love each-other to a level that will rot your teeth.

>>50773163
20 is the standard for APs.

>>50773454

Yeah and 20 PB just breezes through them, it's too much.

15 provides a challenge, something you people don't seem to be interested in, and better yet the DM is vetting anyone that actually tries to min-max. He's going to be having fun with a tough, cinematic experience whose white-knuckle combat and nail-biting tension during high-stakes social events will leave you on the edge of your seat, begging for more.

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>>50773476
>cinematic experience

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>>50773476

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>>50773476
niceme.me faggot, you earned your (you) this time

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>>50773476
And this guy is why I roll stats.

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>>50773476
>15 provides a challenge,
>implying it actually stops the minmaxed Str dumped wizards
>implying this doesn't punish martials who actually want to have decent mental stats while actually being able to do theri jobs
7/10, got me to respond

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>>50773627
How many tries does it take you?

>>50773453
Basically this. As an example without 3rd party material, there's something called the Oradin, basically an Oracle+Paladin. This combination uses the Lifelink from the Oracle (link to one or more allies, and you take over the damage they got) and then keeps itself healed using the Paladin's Lay on Hands. This is a swift action, so you will keep the whole party healed while still having your Standard action and Move action left.
A combination like this would not be possible without Multiclassing, but you need to be very precise in what combination you use.

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>>50773634
One or two because I'm not a pussy who flakes out of a game due to bad rolls.

>>50769458

The main reason why PFS players are such assholes is that the DM generally can't kick out problem players. This means that all the players in an area who are so awful that no other group will have them end up playing PFS.

>>50773631
>>50773540
>>50773518
>>50773494

You idiots don't seem to understand the appeal of 15 PB.

15 PB emphasizes flaws, it brings out the wrinkles and warts that make a character more realistic. Oh boo hoo, your Wizard has 7 Strength! You know what that means? The tough, herculean 14 Strength Barbarian has to carry it for you now, that can be roleplayed out! That very same Barbarian is probably not too bright since he's had to dump Intelligence, which means hey look, look! He's got flaws! Something the DM can exploit and the party can play off to make a rich, engaging experience full of heartfelt encounters and beautiful experiences.

>>50773411
Turns out they're called Fungal Grafts (from Alchemy Manual).
Implantable wondrous item effects without the feat requirement.

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>>50773696
>Tough, herculean 14 strength

>>50773746

When the Barbarian is raging, they're now at 18 Strength.

That's basically the height of human conditioning, people just can't get higher than that unless it's explained through magic. It's absolutely herculean.

>>50773696
>5 PB emphasizes flaws, it brings out the wrinkles and warts that make a character more realistic.
That's what good RP is for anon. You know, the thing you do when not in combat where you act out your character's personality and traits?
Also
>14 Str Barbarian
That makes him barely able to fulfill his function as a martial, and chances are he'll be unable to do much damage at all to compete with escalating combat encounters

Flows don't have to have a mechanical origin, and there are still the flaws inherent in the system that can bring those out too. What you want is to make it so no one aside from the wizard who dumped all his physicals is even capable of doing his job properly, and that type of environment only fuels and incentivises minmaxing and munchkinning characters just to be able to function.

You seem to be confused, and think that only gameplay mechanics can control if you can RP a flawed but unique character, which is completely wrong and speaks of some weird inverse stormwind fallacy

>>50773696
You know you can have character flaws without being crippled mechanically.

>>50773763
Except hercules is a demigod, not a human. "Herculean" would be something like 50 strength.

>>50773696
t. Stormwind Fallacy

Mechanically strong characters do not imply weak roleplaying, and mechanically weak characters do not imply strong roleplaying.

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>>50773696
>14 str is herculean
>implying gimping any potential for a martial to have a decent ability score spread is good
>implying a character has no flaws at 20, or even 25 PB
>implying "realistic" is level 1 with 15 PB
>implying it's fun to always have to dump Cha and Str in order to keep up with appropriately-scaled encounters
>implying the average party of iconics can even deal with the encounters in an AP without GM fiat

>>50773763
A barbarian raging is exceeding the normal human limits, either through some mystic trance or just straight up getting that mad about something

>>50773696
MUH STORMWIND

>>50773773

Good RP stems from realistic characters built with qualities and shortcomings. Are you telling me a 32 PB character can have shortcomings when they've got positives in every attribute and probably some bullshit 3rd party class that makes combat and non-combat a breeze? APs are meant to be challenging, and they won't be challenging if you remove all the challenge from them.

And as I said, 14 turns into 18 during combat which is plenty strong for a martial, I'd even call it overpowered; that's enough to one-hit a bandit, and where's the fun in that? Combat should be about intense, adrenaline-pumping decisions where the valiant heroes are locked in mortal combat with devious foes. Where is the danger when a Barbarian can just cleave through everything?

You seem to be the confused one, acting like a mechanically strong character can still have shortcomings - oh boo, the slayer can carve through an entire room of monsters and talk his way out of anything, but he's still got problems? How? And now the party's falling apart because, since everyone can do anything, nobody has a role. What's unique about the strongman when everyone can carry their own stuff? What's the point in being the genius when everyone can make those Knowledge checks right alongside you?

>>50773696
Bruh, 14 strength is doable with the fucking NPC array.

That's the array fucking farmers and shit use.

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>>50773912

>>50773824

Fuck you, i dare you to apply for that Myth-Weavers campaign. You're going to find out it's more fun than any of these power fantasy wankfests that go on here.

>But my character will die!

The risk of death should always be there.

>But I have to dump STR and CHA

The DM explicitly said he'll ignore people who do this without a solid backstory reason. He's giving you free backstory. Use it!

Why are people even indulging the troll?

>>50773955
Nothing better to do.

>>50773955
Because I'm a NEET, and it's 2:30 on a Monday. There's not really anything else going on in my life.

>>50773912
>What's unique about the strongman when everyone can carry their own stuff?
>What's the point in being the genius when everyone can make those Knowledge checks right alongside you?

What's wrong with you?

What can a barbarian with 30+ strength do? Flip a fucking tank over with his muscles out of sheer anger.

The Rogue might be insightful about who's the best local wench, but the 26 int Wizard is a living encyclopedia.

If anything, it allows people to be more unique and bring more flavor!

>>50773949
>He's giving you free backstory

Hah. Free.

You're funny.

>>50773955

Would you rather talk about which RotJR character is a size queen?

>>50773990
Awinita! She loves big meaty things!

>>50773696
Farmers can have 15 strength with the base NPC array.

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>>50773990
What about the playtests?

The avowed is looking pretty cool, and it looks like N. Jolly's a part of both the other playtest; has anyone actually made a malefex yet?

>>50773990
No. I'd be fine with RotJR discussion if it didn't always revolve around the same damn people and what they have/enjoy between their legs.

>>50773990
Do we wanna try rolling for someone to talk about again?

>>50773973
If anything, giving martials more power in their main stat gives them more versatility

A barbarian with 14 strength at game start vs one with 20. The one with 14 strength will always pretty much be dependent on the Wizard for any utility, but the 20 strength one can actually punch, tear, crumble, crush and squeeze problems into submission!

>>50773696
Stormwind fag alert.
Lower point buy encourages dumping because the game demand's compatence.
Countless failure a fun game this does not.

>>50774032
Fuck it. Sure.

>>50774032

Yes please, I'd rather like to grill someone on their character.

>>50773683
>roll minimum for everything
>fail at everything
>hold the party pack
>have no fun

>a sign of bravery

>>50774042
>>50774045
Who had the list?

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>>50773912
>Are you telling me a 32 PB character can have shortcomings when they've got positives in every attribute and probably some bullshit 3rd party class that makes combat and non-combat a breeze?
1: Yes, because there are personality and character shorcomings that are not represented by mechanics
2: with 15 point buy you'll still have the Wizard ending combat and non combat forever and breaking the game over his knee, so your point about "bullshit 3rd party class" is even more problematic in Core without those 3pp classes

>Barbarians are overpowered
You are an idiot and have no idea how game balance or tiers work, please never play this game again.

>You seem to be the confused one, acting like a mechanically strong character can still have shortcomings - oh boo, the slayer can carve through an entire room of monsters and talk his way out of anything, but he's still got problems? How?
By good roleplay, personality traits, and by the fact he's a martial meaning his ability for narrative control is still stricly limited. And by the fact that even then a Tier 4 or 3 class will often still have party composition niches they can't fulfill, making room for those niches to be fulfilled by other character.
>What's unique about the strongman when everyone can carry their own stuff? What's the point in being the genius when everyone can make those Knowledge checks right alongside you?
What's the point of being a scientist if everyone has the internet? What's the point of being a martial if the wizard can end combat in one round or prevent it all together? What's the point of going camping if eveyone is capable of carrying their own sleeping bag, tent, and gear?
You're adventurers, not NPCs, you're supposed to be able to carry your weight and add a meaningful skillset to the party. Its the same reason why if you go out camping, you should carry your own shit.By your logic no one should even try since all resources are already available to anyone with time and money

Rolled 45 (1d51)

>>50774045
>>50774042
>>50766510

>>50774068

Ooh! Di! The dutiful Kitsune from Molthune whose status as party mascot was upgraded to party leader!

>>50774068
Name: Di, the Fox of Fort Ramgate
Race: Kitsune (Yokai)
Alignment: LN
Class: Warder(Bushi/ZS)||Unchained Rogue(Kitsune Trickster)

>>50773912
Why do you equate "strongman" with "being able to carry a backpack"?

15 Point buy Human Paladin

16 (14) Strength
12 dex
13 con
10 int
10 wis
14 cha

That doesn't sound too fun to play. ;/

>>50774012

I love the Avowed, it's everything I wanted from the Kineticist with the added flavor of being a filthy freeloader from some patron.

>>50773990

Everyone knows Amalthea is probably the size queen, bigger dicks pump their loads closer to the babymaker after all, and thicc chicks often equate to needing thicc dicks to satisfy them.

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>>50774093
Once a simple fox, mascot for a group of Molthuni soldiers, Di rose to command of the Ramgate Irregulars after her awakening. Tragedy marred her promotion, as shortly after her group was ambushed and decimated. Choosing to retire, Di made it her goal to tell the relatives of her former subordinates about their deaths.

I'd love some feedback on Di.

>>50773912
>And as I said, 14 turns into 18 during combat which is plenty strong for a martial, I'd even call it overpowered; that's enough to one-hit a bandit, and where's the fun in that? Combat should be about intense, adrenaline-pumping decisions where the valiant heroes are locked in mortal combat with devious foes. Where is the danger when a Barbarian can just cleave through everything?

...why are you posting in a Pathfinder thread again, when something like AD&D or 5e would clearly be more suited for your style? In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that with your tastes, you should absolutely refuse to even entertain the idea of playing Pathfinder.

>>50774116
Same reason why weaponcords were nerfed. Because he's a lardass nerd who's never been out camping and can't carry a backpack on his own and cannot comprehend what even rudimentary physical fitness is like

>>50774124
Want me to be an asshole?

15PB Angel-born aasimar paladin w/ immortal spark

Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 16

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Can I get some pictures of some FUCKING DRAGONS?!

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>>50773912
>APs are meant to be challenging

APs are not playtested for challenge or even much of anything beyond staying within a theme. They exist as guidelines for a GM, or for GMs who don't want to build campaigns from scratch.

>>50773949
>apply for a mythweavers campaign
Haha fuck no, play-by-post is awful and I already have two games, though one of them is pretty sporadic.

>The risk of death should always be there
t. man who has never played pathfinder. A 25 PB has not stopped any of my characters from getting their shit kicked in during combat because of bizarrely designed AP encounters, or from having constant close call fights that get determined by a single hit. Going from fighting a couple sinspawn to "three monsters with mindrape auras burst from the wall" like in Shattered Star would fucking annihilate a party of iconics unless they were extremely lucky.

>b-but the DM said he'll ignore people who do this, and adjusting your PB to be in line with your class is bad
And that game looks shit and not like anything anyone here cares about, beyond telling you to stop pretending it's good because of its shitty chargen rules. Hell, with 25 PB, my investigator is a genius capable of snaking her way through narrow passages, but she's still a turbo-autist drug addict that creeps the hell out of everyone around her.

>>50773955
We're bored, and this is still less cancerous than half the shit we've discussed before.

>>50774157
>15 pb
>Allowing aasimar

>>50774150

I like her, really! She's a Kitsune wise beyond her years trying to mark off her regrets with a tour across Avistan.

9/10 would comfort with cuddles.