Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Do 40k Terminator arms look good on Tartaros bodies?

>>50496967
Not if you just slap them on there. Might work with some conversion-fu

anyone got an idea when books 6 might be up
I'd love to do everyone a solid and pick it up in my next order but as of right now i ain't got the ability to

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Guess who did nothing wrong?

>>50497010
Would people accept an Indomitus squad if it was scrubbed of "ahistorical" symbols? Would it lose the Tartaros advantages?

If not, how do I get TH/SS on my Tartaros?

>>50496947
this op pic made me laugh, how did adb fuck up the emperor? You know he was an uncompromising warlord who subjugated the galaxy. I didn't actually read master of mankind though, regale me. Or is this pic older than that?

>>50497056
Lorgar

>>50497056
>Hey Leman those wizards you don't like are evil

>NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERDS!

>>50497056
Lorgar?

>>50497067
Storm Shields aren't legal on Tartaros.

>>50497107
Wow, I never noticed that. Saves me a lot of hassle luckily enough.

"Standard" terminator armour means Indomitus (40k) armour?

I'm looking at the Great Crusade legion book and I don't see where it says they can upgrade to Cataphractii. I assume they can though, but do they get the Cataphractii bonus?

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>>50497077
Since last weekend anon posted comments on Master of Mankind and tuns out...remember how Emps couldn't bring himself to kill Horus despite being an explicit traitor and killing hawkboy, until his act of mentally flaying a regular human showed him that his son was long gone, consumed by the powers of chaos?

Well turns out Emps isn't that fond of the primarchs so there is not much love that would make him stop his hand against "Sixteen" on the Vengeful Spirit. Expect heavy(er) retcons.

But I made that image because we were talking about Kyme and anon said he was a manlet, so another one said he was harmless yet I said "come on look at him, he'd set anon on fire if he knew he would get away with it".

One thing led to another and Gouldie's and ADB's pics were made.

I mean, I hope it happened just a week ago intead of two. Not being able to recall entire weeks has become worringly normal for me

>>50497159
Sorry, I meant Tartaros. It says "any unit may exchange its Terminator armour for Cataphractii pattern armour for free."
But I don't see that for Tartaros, and it just describes their wargear as "Terminator Armour".
Meanwhile the Command Squad's terminator option differentiates between Tartaros and Cataphractii in the same option choice (but doesn't list "regular" Termie armour?).

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>>50496967
I don't see much of a problem.

>>50497193
these pics haha, nice work. I would call Kyme 'he that cannot be read' since I can't actually get past a few of his pages.

Well shit the emperor is now an even colder bastard than he was already. I always personally thought people thinking the emperor was a good guy was a bit bullshit. I mean he is a ruthless conquerer.

As for more retcons, I just found out they killed alpharius for no real reason. They could literally kill all the traitor primarchs in a drop ship accident and I don't think I would care.

>>50497159
>>50497217
Great Crusade book is outdated. You want Age of Darkness legions.

>>50497282
On the plus side it did show that Emps has humanity's best interests at heart and cares nothing for glory.

>>50497077

Ghengis Khan and Alexander the Great were also warlords. They still had human emotions and could love people.

ADB ruined the Emperor because the Emperor actually cared about the Primarchs. That's why Sanguinius and Ferrus dying and 9 of the Primarchs betraying him is tragic. They were his SONS. They could've had a family of brotherly and fatherly love.

Now he refers to them by their serial numbers like they're fucking UPS packages in transit, and clearly doesn't care at all.

I can handle grimdark when the tragedy happens to human characters, but making everyone in the setting massive assholes doesn't make it a tragedy, or grimdark, it makes it a bunch of assholes jerking off in each others faces for no fucking reason, except to contrive a reason for their falls when random chance and misunderstandings should be enough.

Oldfluff made the Emperor a flawed man who couldn't relate to most of humanity, and came across as uncaring when, in reality, he cared more than anyone and was too autistic to show it properly. Horus was justified because it made the Emperor LOOK like he only cared for them as tools, and two right characters fighting is tragic.

Newfluff just makes Horus right because ADB plays Chaos.

>>50497270
>Thin your lens

>>50497335
>They still had human emotions and could love people.
But Gengis Khan is seen a conqueror first and a person second. You're a person only to yourself and those who love you, anon.
>>50497282
Why can't be He a ruthless conqueror AND also a loving guy? Because he is still a good guy no matter what he calls the Primarchs, he has mankind's interests over his own, >>50497328 says it correctly.

Besides, he's a Master of Manipulationkind. Several of the parts where he's "badmouthing" primarchs happen when talking to his tribune, whom already has a bad impression of them.

>>50497302
Ah, thanks, the army list.

Show me your Praetors! I'm waiting on a bitz order to build mine and I'd like to see yours.

>>50497335
>Newfluff just makes Horus right because ADB plays Chaos.

Nope, stop eating dick by lying. The new fluff makes it clear. The Emperor is a gigantic asshole but the Chaos Gods are way worst. Heck, the fluff even showed that Horus is being deluded and manipulated by the gods who don't care if he wins or loses. He is just puppet and he destined to die a puppets death when the Chaos Gods mockingly abandon him to die at the hand of his creator. He is the biggest sucker ever was.

I am all for criticism but you shouldn't lie like that. It's like sucking a dick in public. Slurping it shamelessly in front of everyone for attention and drama. Stop it.

>>50497417
>Why can't be He a ruthless conqueror AND also a loving guy?
Because it's clearly shown, from his own words, that he only thinks about primarchs as tools. We already knew that the emperor cared about humanity, not his personal glory. But a big driving force about the horus heresy was that he cared for his sons, not this 'I will face the 16th' bullshit where he only thinks of them as tools, and seems to care more about the custodes. A big part of the story is the final battle, where he can't defeat horus, not because he's too powerful, but because the Emperor still thinks of him as his son. And only through extreme rage, where he knows that he's completely lost him, does he truely fight back. But nope, thats going to be gone now, replaced with a mindless, boring sequence where horus is in fact more powerful than the emperor.

It's so fucking cliche and boring. Not to say that the old fluff was 10/10 amazing, but it had a good feeling to it. This is just generic crap.

>>50497335
>Now he refers to them by their serial numbers like they're fucking UPS packages in transit, and clearly doesn't care at all.

lol.

That's a fair argument. I'm a chaosfag so I never really thought of it like that. I always felt Big E failing to take Mars properly and never offering such a sweet deal to anyone else was shit of him. After that it was take a knee or die standing.

>>50497417
Yeh I'm sure he could be both, but in the end ruthless conquering would win. And friendship and family would be sacrificed on the altar of victory.

I think I'm just an edgelord. Seems like I would like MoM. haha.

>>50497449
What bitz are you getting?

>>50497471
>The Emperor is a gigantic asshole but the Chaos Gods are way worst.
Of course the Chaos gods are worse...but why is He an asshole?
>>50497486
I meant why as in why won't BL write him as such? You know they're not mutually exclusive things.
>>50497501
>And friendship and family would be sacrificed on the altar of victory.
Lest one sacrifice oneself. The bit I liked of Outcast Dead was the fact that He already knew He wasn't going to survive 30k

>>50497486
The Emperor said clearly that he loves the Custards. He considers them his sons and friends. Each one of them dying hurts him emotionally.

The primarchs are just bio-weapons. Nothing more and nothing less. A means to an end.

>The final fight

Will be scrapped because

1) The Emperor doesn't value a bio-weapon over humanity's future
2) The Emperor being stronger than the mightiest beings in the Warp makes zero sense. he is just a man-god. They are TRUE GAWDS. Also it's been established that the Emperor cannot draw close to the beings (Chaos Gods) whom he stole his powers from. This would be really harmful to him. Add to that that the Emperor couldn't beat a single Undivided Daemon. So Empowered Horus should be more than capable of breaking the Emperor regardless of if he was serious or not
3) The Emperor and Pius are not under good terms with each other. Pius loathes the Emperor.

>>50497527
>The bit I liked of Outcast Dead was the fact that He already knew He wasn't going to survive 30k

I didn't really like that.
It's basically just cribbing Sanguinius' shtick.

>>50497527
>but why is He an asshole?

Because his uncle killed his dad.

>>50497527
>I meant why as in why won't BL write him as such?
they won't because they want the 40k universe to be even more 'grimdark' than it used to be, and the story of the emperor being kind and treating primarchs like sons is considered old lore 'propaganda'

and apparently the best way to write grimdark is to make everyone unlikable douchebags.

>>50497556
Wait what. He loves his fucking golden secret service jobbers over his fucking generals? He loves the guys who do jack shit over the ones who conquered the galaxy. Wow.

>>50497583
> unlikable douchebags.

John-G , Alivia-S, O-Pius, Loken, and a lot of other characters are really likeable, though.

>The Emperor refers to the primarchs by their number and never actually cared about them as more than tools/weapons

Is this shit for real? Why?

>>50497556
>The primarchs are just bio-weapons
I know Emps loves his Custodes (or so He claims), but arguably EVERYTHING in 30k/40k is a bioweapon. So were Thunder Warriors, so are Astartes and Custodes, so are the Primarchs, so are all orks, eldar and tyranids, etc.

If he likes someone and dislike someone else, well that's up to him, but don't say it's because weapons.
>>50497583
>they won't because they want the 40k universe to be even more 'grimdark' than it used to be
I don't know. It was pretty damn grimdark when the Emperor was the only good guy in the galaxy, forced to endure eternal undeath, his children either dead or communing with the warp.
I mean, it's so sad people who like NTR would get high on the setting.
>>50497596
All Custodes grew up with the Emperor and He raised them, but only one Primarch had the same bond with Him. And I'm not talking about Horus.
But yeah, it's not like the Primarchs didn't pull their weight, yet all of them were flawed and tainted by the warp-kidnapping

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>>50497525
I'm getting a bunch of bitz to build 3 praetors for some build diversity. I've got a couple of Red Scorpion Honour Guard Torsos and (counts-as Legatine) Axes, a Templar Brethren Archaeotech pistol, a volkite charger, volkite serpentas, Mk 2 Command Head, a Mk 2 torso, some helmet crests, a FW UM Head, a thunder hammer and Vanguard Plasma pistol, a BaC Chaplain, a Paragon Blade, a Sigmarine Shield and arms, legs and backpacks for them all coming in. I'm building one as inspired by pic related, but the others I don't have a solid plan yet.

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>>50497631
What are thooooooose

>>50497612
ADB has daddy issues.

>>50497631
That's quite an undertaking, best of luck with it.

Do you think there's a place for an imperial guard regiment that's inspired from RL Panzer Lehr?

>>50497626
which primarch?

>>50497682
Thank you. I might skip some of the fancier trim on the arms and avoid the chest eagles, but I'm hoping to do the pic justice. Unfortunately it's looking like at least another weekend before my order comes in.

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Reposting my Word Bearers because people were too busy with shitposting about ADB last thread.

>>50497612

Not really. Remember, the Emperor is defined by the people he's interacting with. The person who sees him - at that moment - is Arkan Land, who is a scientist first and foremost. He also sees the Emperor specifically as a scientist.

>>50497739
Nice. Is that writing on the knees? Looks cool.

Are those two new secutarii units worth using?

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>>50497720

>>50497752
>He also sees the Emperor specifically as a scientist.
Because He is :^) :^) :^) :^)

I hate to be about six levels behind everyone, but I only realised I'd been reading an out-of-date book when anon told me and now I have to re-check my whole list.

Surpised me to see the Primus Medicae can no longer take power fists, chainfists, boarding shields or paired lightning claws.

Anyway, is it legal to give him the Imperial Fist "Solarite Gauntlet" or is that a power fist, as "rules as intended" would seem to imply? How about the storm shield? Is a TH/SS primus medicae possible?

>>50497968
I don't have my books on me atm, but it depends on how the entries are worded. As an example, if the Solarite Power Fist entry says something like "characters/independent characters may replace CCW with a Solarite Power Fist" I'd say that's fair and allowed, even if the character doesn't get other normal CCW options (unless the restrictions are something mentioned in the rules that explicitly state the Primus can't take upgraded weapons or something to that effect)

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Ignoring ADB/BL for one moment and let's talk about something else.
1: What are you working on right now?
2: Can you share with us the mini you have most recently finished?
3: Any games coming up?
4: How did your last game go?

The Thirteenth Wolf or Children of Sicarus link?

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>>50498061
Such links do not exist at the moment, and is it unknown if such links will appear in the meantime. Please take an appointment, and come back in five months.

>>50498059
1: Fixing some Mechanicum.
2: Out right now, sorry.
3: Christmas themed apoc game tomorrow. Santa vs Krampus
4: Dark Eldar vs Mechanicum. It's amazing how many jinks he failed due to minus one cover save.

>>50498044
Yeah, it's not a replacement for a power fist, it can be taken by any independent character with the option to take a thunder hammer, for the same point cost.

>>50498089
Alright! I do believe Medicae can take Thunder Hammers so if that's the case, you're good to go.

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>>50497609
Don't forget Mr Based himself.

>>50498113
Yeah, it seems like a RAW "loophole", though maybe an FW email would answer this.

>>50497335
I like the Emprah basically being Dr. Manhattan. It makes more sense.

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>>50498088
>3: Christmas themed apoc game tomorrow. Santa vs Krampus
I'm intrigued. I need to know more.
>4: Dark Eldar vs Mechanicum. It's amazing how many jinks he failed due to minus one cover save.
>mfw
Anon, Space Roman Super Science was not meant to be used for seal clubbing, even if those seals are edgy space elves who suck in this edition. He at least he got off on his suffering right?

>>50498059

1: Writing up an IG version of Panzer Lehr
2: Nope, but it's a whole lotta squads of guardsmen. Not very high quality. I need numbers.
3: Yep, doing a campaign versus a friend who has an army of orks. We keep any minis we kill, and count up at the end of the year. 5th game is next week.
4: See answer number 2.

>>50497583
Guilliman, Sangy, Vulkan, and Khan have all been made out to be "likable". Hell even Praetorian of Dorn made Dorn likable.

Then there's endless amounts of likable secondary characters.

Having a 40,000 year old immortal warlord of near god-like power be detached is fine. I think it's going to be revealed he does care about Horus deep down anyway.

>>50498145
>2: Nope, but it's a whole lotta squads of guardsmen. Not very high quality. I need numbers.
That's basic IG 101.
>IG Panxer lehr
Go on.

>>50497556
He says that to a Custard who doesn't like the Primarchs, a Custard who he's emotionally manipulating the entire book, read between the lines mang

>>50498137
He did ask me to go hard in the paint for that game. He also said his nuts hurt afterwards. So yes?

Christmas games looks pretty cool. There will be presents on the table that units can unwrap. These can be anything from apoc assets too ugly sweaters from Grandma that don't let you use cover. Also, all gargantuans and super heavies are free because on Christmas, everyone gets toys!

>>50498132
It doesn't seem like a loophole to me, but if you want to email FW to give you some peace of mind, I won't stop you. It's in the rules and the language looks pretty clear to me. If we were playing a game, I'd have no problems letting you run a Solarite Fist.

>>50498190
>He did ask me to go hard in the paint for that game. He also said his nuts hurt afterwards. So yes?
In that case the seal clubbing was okay. Just how hard did you go?
>Christmas games looks pretty cool. There will be presents on the table that units can unwrap. These can be anything from apoc assets too ugly sweaters from Grandma that don't let you use cover. Also, all gargantuans and super heavies are free because on Christmas, everyone gets toys
>Magos finds a STC for ugly sweater

>>50498178
Basically read the Ciban Chasseurs, went 'oh shit, Heresy IGs actually have tactics and organization?' and thought about either editing a poorly fleshed out regiment, or creating my own part. Would use Blitz and/or Deep Strike doctrines, along with mechanized cavalry. Their main goal: preserve precious armour and manpower. Armour because it's expensive, manpower because the more soldiers survive, the more trained and powerful they become. The Panzer Lehr would be the result of that doctrine: trainers being put onto the field to observe combat, and go back to update their teaching techniques. No idea if this fits into Heresy, I've just discovered this while browsing 1d4.

>>50497501
>I always felt Big E failing to take Mars properly and never offering such a sweet deal to anyone else was shit of him. After that it was take a knee or die standing.
It's because the Emperor's army wasn't shit without mars' tech, and would likely have lost to what the cogboys would have thrown together.

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>>50497449
Converted from sevatar and some other stuff

>>50497027
February 2016.

>>50498502
the thumbnail looks like a tyranid termagant...

>>50497027
Book 7 is available February 4th.

>>50498502
That is certainly a painted miniature.

Someone explain to me what was supposed to be Horus' real plan for Terra, assuming that Magnus had been killed as he wanted.

The Emperor, Custodes and Sisters would be entirely focused on fucking him up due to no webway war. He wouldn't have had any Thousand Sons at his disposal to dismantle the psychic barriers of the Palace.

Horus is retarded.

>>50497631
No, please no sigmarine bits. They're far too large for marines.

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>>50498629
Chaos: Not even once.

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>>50498629
>Someone explain to me what was supposed to be Horus' real plan for Terra, assuming that Magnus had been killed as he wanted.
>The Emperor, Custodes and Sisters would be entirely focused on fucking him up due to no webway war
You do know Magnus fucked up the Webway BEFORE the Burning of Prospero, right? No, of course you don't.
And Horus wanted both the TS and SW to kill each other, but it turns out the TS for some reason declared for him.
He wasn't expecting anything and got something, win-win.
>He wouldn't have had any Thousand Sons at his disposal to dismantle the psychic barriers of the Palace.
>Needing witches to siege a place
Do you even siege?

>>50498629
Magnus destroyed web way wall before Horus even planned attack on terra.

>>50498629
>He wouldn't have had any Thousand Sons at his disposal to dismantle the psychic barriers of the Palace.
>Implying that's anyway a bad thing
TSons job anon, it's what they do.

>>50497486
There's a tradeoff: in the old fluff, the traitor primarchs were just stereotypical bad guys - Horus's fall didn't make as much sense when the Emperor was a nice guy. The story really depended on Horus being possessed by a daemon after "falling ill" on Davin, and that's stupid. It means he was nothing more than a tool (ironically enough) of Chaos, with no agency of his own.

Now the traitors are interesting and sometimes even relatable. Yes, it's gone too far the other way, but I still think it works better than the old fluff.

>>50497568
Time to write a Lion King sequel in which Simba conquers the continent but half his sons go rogue.

>>50498729
Well the newer fluff about his fall is equally stupid, it was better when his actions depended on a chaotic evil third party than "I hope I don't become unemployed when we win the crusade"

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>>50498637
>pic related
I don’t think the shields are THAT bad, sizewise. It's there for me to experiment with and potentially use. The shield cost me like a $1.50 and was mainly there to put me over the free shipping threshold.

>>50498790
Oh, the shields? Yeah those are cool.

>>50498790
This mini is a great statement about how all legions can use all marks to great effect. Good job anon

>>50498790
>mixing mk4 and mk3
[muffled screeching]

Cool model. Sigmarine shields are pretty solid. Shame they're not quite good enough for breachers, since they lack a gun hole, or a decent spot to carve out a gun hole.

>>50498868
Full disclosure: this is unfortunately not mine but it is something I aspire to. It was something that came up when Googling 30k Ultramarines.

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>>50498930
Still, most depictions of roman legionnaries have them wearing those rectangular shields, without any hole or indentation on which to place a spear.

And it's UM the only one who can make testudo marines.

Yup, sorry IF, you tried. But you still have TH/SS termies. Unless you mention Firedrakes, that is.

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>>50499039
PULLO, GET BACK IN FORMATION

So first wersion some guardsman stand before Horus and gave badass speech before he was obliterated.
Now this guy is 45k old perpetual with some mission. thank you Dan Abnett
Still i prefered Custodes wersion, how the fuck guardsman will get on VS during the siege?

>>50498729
>It means he was nothing more than a tool (ironically enough) of Chaos, with no agency of his own.
But that's exactly what he is now. A delusional tool who thinks he's taking over while in reality being manipulated to start off the Long War.

That's the one thing that hasn't really changed in comparison to the old fluff. All Chaos does is pull the wool over your eyes. It slowly twist your perceptions and makes you an unwitting pawn.

>>50497056
Russ.

>>50499078
Emps probably teleported up everyone in an area. Some poor chucklefuck Guardsman got a little too close.

>>50499076
NO I CAN TAKE THEM GUYS

>>50499039
Right, but I want my tortoise (ultra)marines with guns, rather than swords. It'd require some pain in the ass reconstructive surgery to make it work.

>>50499078
>and gave badass speech before he was obliterated.

I thought he was literally the original Leroy Jenkins/Forest Gump and just charged out of hand. That version appealed more to me, because it underscored the "low versus the mighty" angle, where the Emperor was reminded of the simple faith/desire to be free from the Chaos gods that the commoners in the Imperium had.

>>50499078
>So first wersion some guardsman stand before Horus and gave badass speech before he was obliterated.
No, first version had an terminator (later replaced by custodian) stumble in and get torn apart.

The whole guardsman thing was 41st millennium myth that some random regiment subscribed to for some reason.

>>50499078

>45k old perpetual with some mission
>Long forgotten contingency plan by Big E
>There on VS because Big E told him to 45k years ago.

>>50499078
No.
Pius is first mentioned in 40K as a Saint of the Imperial Guard. The doctrine the church teaches the soldiers is that he was a Guardsman who threw himself between Horus and the Emperor during a battle in the Imperial Palace.
The idea is that the Saint of the Guard is some rando who threw himself into certain death, ie that's what good holy Guardsmen should do so run into that barrage soldier.
2nd version in the first Bill King HH fluff is an Astartes Terminator on board Horus' battle barge.
3rd version in BL HH artbooks was a Custode because they LITERALLY FORGOT it was a Terminator and didn't check.
4th version BL are (presumably) setting up is Pius again*, on board the ship. There was no speech in any of the versions other than in the meme that gets passed around.

*again as in for the first actual time considering the OG Pius probably was just invented or exaggerated by the church to get Guardsmen to walk into enemy fire. BL will also be the first time 'the human' character gets to make an actual speech, probably.

>>50499078
His knife can cut through space.

>>50499039
Speaking of UM Breachers, how would you model them? Swords raised in anticipation of a charge? Or lowered, at rest, by their side? How did real Romans hold their gladiuses (gladii?) and shields while in formation?

>>50499197
Quite tightly.

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>>50499141
You could use the square boarding shields from Forge World. They're also planning on these shields with UM Iconography but it's been a while since they were initially previewed. You could also use Shapeways, but I can't vouch for the quality.

>>50499197
Firmly, with their hands.

I think some scholars were speculating that they'd hold the gladius at their side and swing the arm in an upwards stab of sorts, but that's just nerds making guesswork. Real answer is that how Romans would hit opposing dudes with their swords was largely up to the roman in question.

>>50499076
GLORY TO THE FIRST MAN THAT D- *Ded*

>>50499189
But I bet it cannot stab space, detach the blade and kick it away as it begins to light up. Think what that would make to space-time's morale! :^)

>>50499140
*Deep breath*
>LEEEEEEEROY JAAAANIKUS!

>>50499252
Yeah, that's probably what I'll end up doing. Still got time to deliberate on options, since I won't bother adding them until making the jump past 1500.

>>50499252
I wish lascutters were good. Or just average. They look really cool.

>>50499378
>Still got the chickenarius

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>>50499395
The Elysian cutter looks cooler, I think.

Shame ogryn are the only militia unit that can use them. They're only really decent on single-attack troopers.

>>50499078
>Imperial Army ship sallies forth to aid the Emperor as he attacks the Vengeful Spirit
>Gets damaged and rams it
>Boarding parties

e-z

>>50498729
It's unpopular to say, but all the Primarchs save perhaps Fulgrim (who was always meant to be a dick in fairness) have come out looking better from the HH series.

The people who have come out looking worse are the Emperor, Pious, and probably Custodes as they're assholes.

>>50499480
>looking better from the HH series
I don't like French's manchild Perturabo.

>>50499492
He's pretty sweet in Angel Exterminatus. Took him beyond bitterfag

>>50499480
>Angron
>Mr. Check your privileges: The Primarch
No.

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>>50499480
I dislike the Fulgrim bits, they didnt manage to create a person that had any real potential of showing a "fall".

Horus was super-dad that truly fell and was done well, why not the big purple dude?

>Whoever made these Handsome Primarch pictures, thank you.

>>50499480
I thought that Fulgrim felt more like a silly charicature than an actual character, but I guess he was always a pawn of excess.

>>50499480
Corax hasn't come out of his BL books smelling of roses, but I actually like him more as a character for that. He's not Mr. Perfect, instead he fucks up, takes it on the chin, and carries on doing the best he can. He's a more interesting character for it.

I also think that's why ADB characters are really starting to grate. Nothing is ever their fault. The emperor's problems are magnus's fault. Lorgar and angrons' problems are the emperor's fault. Argel tal's problems are lorgar's fault. Kharn's problems are angron's fault. And so on. Nobody ever has to take responsibility and accept they've fucked up when ADB is doing the writing.

>>50499517
Yeah, but that was McNeil's

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>>50499606
Hell, if we go to his non HH books, all of Talos' problems are Curze's fault.
It's such a recurring theme, and it's always daddy's mistakes.

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>>50499726
But what could it mean? Does ADB have the daddy issues we meme about, or is he just lazy and had a good relationship with his dad, and thinks that everyone having daddy issues is good enough for why humanity has it bad?

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>>50499802

>>50499864
It's not that deep of a rabbit hole, and I don't think he'd be willing to tell about his daddy issues on the Internet. Not unless one of us happen to be a master of psychological manipulation and can trick him into admitting it.

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Got a box of prospero and I didn't plan on using the heroes, but instead of selling them I decided to troll one of my regular game buddies with those help of some other friends

>plan game with buddy
>I run alpha legion
>he blows one of my rhinos up
>a squad of Alpha legion marines and Ahriman gets out
>"who is Ahriman supposed to be proxying?"
>"oh he's just a regular marine with a bolter"
>another Rhino has greigor In it
>assault squad has sigismund
>one guy from every squad has disguised themselves as heroes from other legions
>constantly refer to the squads as "Ahrimans squad" and "Sigismunds squad" despite assuring him they are just regular guys who conform with their group
>Terminator squad with Rogal dorn is walking his way up the field
>I assure him that's just another termie
>he charges the squad knowing what I'm playing at
>it was just a regular termie squad
>one of my tactical squads charges him
>Ahriman removes his helmet to reveal he was alpharius the whole time
>we all have a good laugh as alpharius rips his praetors head off in this cluster fuck of a game
Mfw

>>50497596
He figured that a galactic empire could be won, or re-won, at any time. But the Custodes were secretly fighting to conquer a major piece of the webway, and in the book they're fighting to keep it after Magnus tears a hole in it. That was the more important project, because empires rise and fall but sealing off humanity from Chaos (and being able to kill off all the psychic mutants like astropaths and navigators) would have permanent benefits.

>>50497612
The numbers are their real names, from Emp's perspective. The names we know were given to them by their adoptive parents/subjects/fellow slaves.

>>50500003
Wait so Morty's true name was #14? That's what Draigo used on him? Kind of strange when you remember he gave Konrad his name. What made Curze special enough to get his name?

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>>50499395
Use them as meltaguns or melta-bombs.

>>50499955
Excellent, take notes people.
The best part is that you didn't lie once.

>>50500003
According to a short story about a certain Mary Sue the primarchs all had original names, Kaldor Draigo was able to defeat mortarion in a duel by planting his emperor given true name in his mind like a psychic bomb

>>50491803
Quad mortars not being 0-1.

Flare Shields are good but pretty easily countered.

Armored Ceramite is only good because it's possible to spam melta. There's plenty of S10 shooting and armourbane melee.

At least artillery is 0-1. So they have to target the same thing. It's unfortunate if you have blobs. Medusas have limited range, but basilisks are pretty spooky. It's too late to remove them. Just going to have to adapt. Flyers, holding blobs in reserve, things like that.

EW is pretty good, but it's few and far between. Unless your character is beefier then you should be shooting them.

>>50497719
Just remember to call it Imperial Army rather than Imperial Guard. But sure. It's just a division with late-model tanks and fully mechanized infantry regiments, made up of trainers/teachers (hence "Lehr") and other higher-than-average troops. And they wore different uniforms (the real division's mech. inf. wore assault gun tunics).

I'm guessing there will be official Imperial Army rules when Tallarn is addressed in the FW books. Until then you either have to choose Solar Auxilia or Cults and Militia. I'd do the former, though it does mean you can't use sponsons on your Leman Russes. All of your infantry would be in Dracosians. Get some Panzer Lehr "L" decals and use them everywhere. I wouldn't use both the logo and WWII camo on the tanks - it'd just be too much. It kind of breaks the immersion if your opponent gets the impression that you'd rather be playing Flames of War.

>>50497968
>Surpised me to see the Primus Medicae can no longer take power fists, chainfists, boarding shields or paired lightning claws.
Those aren't good tools for carefully extracting geneseed.

Does anyone know what John French looks like? I need to know for reasons, but I found some unrelated John Frenchs, and some woman when I googled his name.

OK, /HHG/. New Mechanicum army is ordered up so it will arrive for christmas, and I'm going into the GW tomorrow to pick up the paints I need and hopefully get some 40k pickup games as well.

Me and my Death Guard friend were planning on allying with the WE player, who is cool, and playing a huge game against the UM player (Blackshirt's son, a massive abrasive fuck who leaves his black book on the painting table and blows up at a guy who put a box lid on it for ten seconds) and the Night Lords player (SO salty about everything) and the IH player (An awesome guy, but we do need someone else on the dicks team).

SO. I did some reading, and I think I pretty much know what UM, DG and WE do now.
DG were interesting, WE were ... straightforward and UM are vanilla as fuck sans the Sueserains.

One, What do Night Lords do other than be edgy, and two, any help with the battleplanning?
I have 4 Castellax, a Magos, Scoria, some assorted Thralls, a Thanatar, a couple Thallax groups, a Lightning and two Arty tanks I was thinking of allying in as Reductor allies.

We will be up against Kurze, Guilliman and probably Ferrus as well, and we have Angron, Morts and Scoria if I can finish him in time.

This will be a hell of a first 30k game if it goes to plan.

>>50500143
Agreed, although a still-rather-large chainsaw is part of the standard Apothecary gear, despite not being a weapon per se. I just figured something that could quickly and precisely cut through terminator armour would be as strong as terminator armour.

>>50491803
>Flare shields

Could have been a plain Inv. save.

>Armoured Ceramite

Reduce Melta bonus to +1D3. It's better than nothing, but not something that's gonna just make melta weapons useless. Especially now that melta-bombs are a no-no and there's more than a few all around AV14 vehicles in the game.

>Artillery in the game that is supposed to be about hordes of infantry

Marines in 30k are not like Marines in 40k, they're far more like a regular military with everything associated with such. Not giving them artillery would be stupid. Limiting it a little would help, sure.

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>>50499955
>>Ahriman removes his helmet to reveal he was alpharius the whole time

>>50500155
>What do Night Lords do other than be edgy

Bully weak fags to death, seriosusly their rules are all based on picking your opponent's weak spots and brutally winning against them. They get some access to speed, some infiltrate and some deep strike, they are a great legion that hit like a chainsaw to the groin but if the fight doesnt go their way then ITS THEM WHO GETS BULLIED TO DEATH!.

Raptors are expensive as fuck but can hit most vanilla units on 2 and wound them on 3s with a bunch of AP3 attacks that could threaten vanilla terminators.

Great legion/10.

>>50500243
OK, then. I presume since it's in the name they can force Night Fight? I would think dropping an Interceptor Thanatar blast should slow them down a tad.
So use their tactics. Never take a fair fight or they'll join in and force a breakthrough. Tear their tacticals up with I5 Vorax and artillery, beat their raptors with cover reduction and interceptor, and never let them get the initiative.

Am I on the right lines here? I have a fair chunk of infiltration and cover fuckery, with Thallax and Cyber-occularis.

>>50500143
>Those aren't good tools for carefully extracting geneseed.
Luckily Scapel Hammers are rated for geneseed extraction.
>>50500144
I think this is how he looks like? I shall get the memes ready
Google "john french black library"

Reposting

Which was a bigger mistake?

>Flare shields

>Armoured Ceramite

>Artillery in the game that is supposed to be about hordes of infantry

>Armoured Ceramite Flare shielded AV14

>Beatsticks with Eternal warrior

>Lorgar :^)

>>50500343
>I think this is how he looks like? I shall get the memes ready
Don't worry about it. Let me handle it.

>>50500394
None of these are problems except flare shields and armored ceramite on the same vehicle.

>>50500198
>Could have been a plain Inv. save.

An invuln wouldn't change the "meta" as much as reducing the strength of weapons does.
Maybe if it was "scaled" according to the type of the weapon like the reduction in strength currently is.

>>50500405
Let the best meme win, then

I'm building a fluffy titan legion and supporting elements, the backstory I've chosen is yadda yadda ancient oath of honour to repay a debt, house terryn supplies lots of its knights to the legion because it took heavy casualties saving their homeworld ages ago so it doesn't have many engines of its own.

So far I've got and am in the process of building/painting
>titans - Warlord with belicosa volcano cannon, sunfury plasma annihilator, 2x laser blasters. Warhound with vulcan mega bolter and plasma blastgun
>knights
>exalted court of house terryn (but not using them as such) and 1x knight crusader, magaera, styrix, lancer, castigator and acheron
>couple of tech priest auxillia knocking about

What else could I add?
My thinking behind giving the warhound no d-weapons was 1) the warlord does enough and 2) it can provide some anti air for its big brother (and 3) because i don't like the look of the turbolasers)

>>50500394
>Artillery in the game that is supposed to be about hordes of infantry

What the game is supposed to be depends on you and your opponent, you want hordes? Take void shield generators and fortifications if your opponent wants artillery.

There are solutions to what you perceive as a problem and none of those things are truly a problem, everything is good in moderation.

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>>50500405
But srsly what does he look like

>>50500477
That's what I got when I looked him up.

>>50500467
Toss in some of the 40k Secutarii Titan Guard as ground troops, they look awesome. Either run them as some 30k Mechanicum unit (Scyllax or Thallax?), Myrmidons, just use IH legion rules and have the Lancers be graviton-gun Supports and the Peltasts be seekers, or just use the 40k rules because those are awesome as well.

>>50500503

They do look very nice, but I'm not really a fan of their rules - considering they're meant to escort the titans into battle they'ere incredibly squishy and dont even have a decent invulnerable. I'm also really not a fan of the pricing model for it, i.e for a full squad you have to pay £94.

>>50499480
and Vulkan, don't forget him ( I'm still mad at BL for turning him into a perpetual)

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>>50500475
Well at least that' what I'm inferring from the books. Heresy for some means "more astartes per square feet"

>>50500535
True, but that's not really what I thought they were for. The Titans are escorted by a fuckload of regular Taghmata as well as whatever else might be possibly about, they don't need extra Skitarii. The Secutarii are there to root out and destroy small things that might be a threat to the Titans that are a tad hard to target with a Titan gun. Small squads of strike troops get shredded by Peltasts, Shadowswords hiding behind hills die before the Titans come anywhere near range, and so on.

The price is extortionate, though. I agree with you there. I just like them. Maybe some regular Ordo Reductor Thallax and Magi along with the enginseers? Nothing says any of your Titans ordnance guns cant be buffed with Sunder and +1 damage table by the Magos, or are they all Primary Weapon instead?

>>50500394
see >>50500075

>Artillery in the game that is supposed to be about hordes of infantry
Also not quite right, its about legions at war. The numbers are large, but not everyone dedicated blobs of infantry marching up. The ones that did have special rules for it like DGs 5+ cover save form the RoW or IWs not takign morale from shooting etc.

To not have artillery would not make sense. Just be glad it is a 0-1 choice for legions. THe AdMech arty spam shouldnt exist though. Unless its one of those optional ask opponent before FoCs.

>>50500394
>Beatsticks with eternal warrior
I would gladly trade that damn mantle for some sweep advance
>tfw when your legionnaires are slower than your dreadnought

>>50500611

Ah well that makes more sense. I've got a bunch of taghmata, but I wasn't sure if I should include them with the titans because they've got a different paint scheme.

>>50500544
Eh I don't care that he can regenerate that much, every primarch needs their niche.

Personality wise though they improved upon Vulkan. Pre-HH he was a vaguely defined craftsman/black guy that nobody knew anything about. Now he's basically the biggest bro primarch and the imperials moral conscience.

>>50499955
Upload the rules and fluff in full. There's still no link for that

>>50500477
They're both him.

>>50500725
except he is still very much willing to burn people to death when it suits him and his promethean creed is not exactly in the borders defined by the imperial truth

>>50500659
Feel free, the Titanicus are a different wing of the Admech, so they'll often have different paint schemes, like Knight Houses. Also, what Magos would decline a Titan wanting an escort? They are literal Machine Gods.

>>50497335
>Newfluff just makes Horus right because ADB plays Chaos.
I thought he played BA

>>50498752
That's just Lion King 2, but replace "go rogue" with "fuck his daughter."

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>>50497631
mfw that was drawn for me...

Anyways here's the model that I built after Greyall did that for me.

>>50500918
Ooh, nice work!

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>>50497449
>Show me your Praetors!
ok

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Anyone got this to share?

>>50499929
There are a lot of people on the internet, anon. One of us could do it, we just need to find him/her.

>>50497056
Have u read MOM bro?

>>50501055
Some annon have posted it some time ago, i will try to find.

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>>50498124
Garold is one helluva guy.

>>50501080
Oh I see, thanks.

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>>50500779
For real?
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/John_French

>>50500906
It's a meme, like saying he has Daddy Issues. We don't know WHY he does it, but the fact is, he's making the traitor Primarchs right, which is fucked, because at the very least, it should be shades of grey.

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>>50501103
Did I hear somebody say BARE CERAMITE?!

>>50501019
Ooh baby, looking good!

>>50501055
http://www.mediafire.com/file/dh8xcf9ms2rmmau/Too_old_for_this_shit.mp3
Found it.

>>50501179
>http://www.mediafire.com/file/dh8xcf9ms2rmmau/Too_old_for_this_shit.mp3
>that filename
Kek, thank you good anon.

>>50501134
>It's a meme
You're a meme and so am I. No, it's the both of us. Carry that with you wherever you go. From now on you're Meme Boss

>>50501151
How do you paint knight errants power armour anyways, anyone got an idea which colours to use?

>>50501211
Then who was Alpharius?

>>50501241
Do Knights Errant wear bare ceramite plate? I was just going to build and paint one in Grey Knight colours.

>>50501320
They are supposed to be clad in grey and bare ceramite yeah.

>>50501127
He is one soul in two bodies anon

>>50496947
>Domitar battle-automata
>For less than half the price
>From China
>Free shipping
It has to be a recast, right? I kind of want it, but worried about iffy quality. The picture is a bit unclear.

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>>50497449
Chainglaives for the Chainglaive gods

>>50501241
Knight Anon grey with a coat of nun oil?

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>>50501241
>>50501320

They wear plain grey, not metallic silver (Grey Knights) or stone grey (Word Bearers).

The closest colour comparison I can think of is the Red Scorpions' grey. The art is a bit wonky on this, with the shininess of the armour varying from cover to cover.

>>50501371
Wasn't Sigismund described as having hair? Even Malcador has more hair than him

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>>50501342
One body now.

>>50501344
if its from china, theres a 100% chance it'll be a recast.

>>50501359
How the f did you get such a gorgeous blue? A+

>>50501371
Thanks for info! You've saved me from a mountain of scorn. Much appreciated.

>>50501371
what is even happening here? those are knight errants I presume. but wtf is wrong with siggy? looks like he's suffering graviton collapse.

What's the name of those beads that you can put in small holes drilled into power armour to make quasi-MkV? I can't find any solid leads for something I'm sure will work on the eastern side of the Atlantic.

>>50501427
They describe him as having" patrician features" with dark blonde hair.

>ends up looking like a bald Tony Soprano

ayyy

>>50501371
Red Scorpions grey is a good idea, thank you.

>>50501241
FWs is def leadbelcher, highlighted with some sort of steel, with nuln shade last.

>>50501427
Yeah in one of his first introductions, I want to say it was the lighting tower but not sure but he did have hair. Guess they just wanted Sigi to be as vanilla as his legion.

I do love the idea of him having the laurels bolted in his skull.

>>50501479
Microbeads. You can find them on etsy.

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>>50501371
Mal doesn't look so hot. I know he's old and all, but he really looks like he needs some skincare products.

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>>50501437
Kek
>>50501479
>>ends up looking like a bald Tony Soprano
aaaayyy
>>50501507
>I do love the idea of him having the laurels bolted in his skull.
Say no more
>>50501548
>I may be old, but at least I'm not bald!

How would you guys depict or model Eternal Warrior, considering it different to +1T or IWND?

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Done. This was really stupid. But if you guys get a laugh I win. I didn't get all of them, but I got the major BL writers.
>>50501560
>>I may be old, but at least I'm not bald!
Kek.

>>50501600
Eagles.

>>50501650
I smiled.
>>50501654
Yes.

>>50496947
I love you ADB. Please, if you are here, allow me to pleasure you orally.

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So I'll take it no-one saw this? Confirms one major fan theory at least.

>>50501600
big ass dragon mantle

>>50501667
And all of that was meaningful.
>>50501676
How did Emps need Horus to rebel to complete the Imperial Webway? And that's not really a confirmation unless it's in a novel.

>>50501676
>What I, the person who approved, and wrote the plot for, took from the novel
How can one man be such a twat?

>>50501676
Why did he need Horus to rebel? If his plan was just to build the webway then starve the warp into oblivion, why did he need a rebellion?

>>50501528
And glass is the material?

That sounds a bit fragile...

>>50501714
He also misspelled his last name. What a fag.

>>50501676
Confirms what, that laurie is retarded?

You could say he probably expected mavericks like Curze or Angron to go full crazy without anyone raising an eyebrow, but Horus? "Literally unable to bring yourself to kill him even after he's torn off your arm and blown up your eye" Horus?

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Anyone try these or similar for rivets?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Steel-Blue-Adhesive-Stick-Pearls/dp/B00BRTXYEC/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1480714392&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=2mm+steel+bead+nail

>>50501766
>"Literally unable to bring yourself to kill him even after he's torn off your arm and blown up your eye" Horus?
Kek, retconned.

>>50501766
>You could say he probably expected mavericks like Curze or Angron to go full crazy without anyone raising an eyebrow, but Horus? "Literally unable to bring yourself to kill him even after he's torn off your arm and blown up your eye" Horus?

You do know that's utterly retconned right? Number XVI means nothing to the Emperor beyond being a tool for him to use.

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>>50501792
>>50501788

>8th Edition dropping in June
>Will feature rules changes similar to Age of Sigmar

What do HHG? Will we be converting or play 7th for eternity?

>>50501788
>>50501792
As long as my faith in the Emperor remains true, it will never be retconned.

>>50501725
I really wouldn't worry about fragility. If you're dropping your minis, the actual mini as a whole is in more trouble. The great thing about them is that they're extremely cheap and plentiful. You could try BBs but I don't have any on hand to test that out for you.

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Be honest teegee, if ADB suddenly appeared before you in all his majesty, would you suck his dick?

>>50501820
If it's true, then yes. 7E and then community voted erratas and FAQs as time goes on. Hell FW might even make a Battles in the Age of Darkness rulebook that's essentially 5.5E.

>>50501869

He's posted on here before (Years ago), and aside from a bit of squeeing people really didn't seem to care. That was then though. I'd hate to see what would happen now.

How does the glaive stack up against the other legion superheavies? i love the gimmick the main gun has, but i worry that the beam is a little bit too thin to be all that effective

>>50501768
A bonding stud on FW MKV is 1mm in diameter. Those are 2mm and might crowd your surface. Any 1mm version?

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>>50501654
But UMs and ECs lack EW.
>>50501650
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy
>BL authors unleashed
Triple kek

>>50501869
the only authors dicks I'd suck on the spot are either six feet under or infirm enough that doing so would make me feel guilty

>>50501899
>Hell FW might even make a Battles in the Age of Darkness rulebook that's essentially 5.5E.

Apparently there's a "historical" rules section in the rulebook, if GW is smart they'd let FW write that and FW can go ahead and say "Use this section in the BRB when playing HH", I wouldn't be surprised if that was case.

>>50501983
Like Rick Priestley, perhaps?

>>50501971
And you managed to destroy my sides.

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>>50501456
Airbrush, black then white from the top then your primary color. Creates a shade between the white and black parts. You can do this with any other colors as well but on some of the lighter ones you may need to wash after the primary goes on.

>>50502162
Thanks for that. That's "zenithal highlighting", yeah? What's the blue colour you're using?

>>50502255
Vallejo model air 71.004 blue

So, all the Primarchs, in addition to their Sire of the X have a signature special rule.
Which Primarch's rule did you most wish was your Primarch's?

>>50502469
Fulgrim's (+2 combat results, rerolled reserves) would be damn useful for the Raven Guard, helping get deep striking stuff in and win combats for the jump pack units.

The lazy general answers would be Alpharius and Ferrus, preferred enemy and FNP are always handy.

>>50500434
Maybe the change to the meta is bullshit, when everything's scaled on the AV10-14 scale and here you have a vehicle effectively with AV15-16. Combine that with AC, making meltas worthless and melta-bombs being out of the question, you got very few things that can compete without real dedication.

Having an Inv. would still help it survive incoming fire and would also reduce the need for cover. Alternatively, make a flare shielded Spartan slower (like 6" movement), as it's draining energy from the engines to power the shield. Have some drawback to the damn thing, because right now there is none.

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Anons, I was just talking with a friend about Baneblades and he gave me an idea.
Im the guy who is making a Xana II army and wanted to put a baneblade in it.

What if I made it a DarkMech variant of Yarrick's Fortress of Arrogance, but for Scoria?

So take a Baneblade, mount the Hellhammer turret but shave the top off and kit it out as a pimp throne above all others. Obviously Admech it up a bunch, and have the Xana logo in full on the side. Maybe houserule it as a Hellhammer that can transport Scoria and the Homunculex specially for maybe 50 extra points?

Also, how would you make it look extra badass because this is going to be a really cool centrepiece if I can pull it off.

>>50501869
6 years ago, probably. Today, I'd try and have a reasonable argument with him, that I'd probably lose because I'm shit at it.

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>>50502724
>how would you make it look extra badass
use the aquila strongpoint's eagle, like the warhammer world guys did on theirs

>>50502724
pics of that army or I won't loose time answering more bullshit for something you'll never do.

>>50501899
that what all 8th faggot said.
know nobody plays 8th anymore, and the thread lasts basically weeks instead of 2/days like before aos.

>>50502724
Why not use, say, a Banehammer and make a miniature Leviathan?

>>50502821
FW should consider splitting off the HH rules from 40k. They don’t have to, but every edition change has been a pain that they didn’t seem ready for. By going their own way they could avoid those disruptions in their schedule.

If they like the direction 40k is taking with 8th ed. and they prepare new army list books ahead of time, that’s fine too. It’s the other option. But the current situation is lousy. Look at the FAQ and the meltabomb mayhem – the problem is that 40k and HH have different metas so they’re affected differently by the FAQ. It isn’t that big a deal in 40k. It breaks a number of HH armies. The two games are divergent enough that they should have separate FAQs and therefore separate rules.

As a hypothetical extreme, imagine the chaos in HH if GW changed the 40k weapon profile for, say, heavy bolters. It could happen. The change from 2nd to 3rd edition added rapid fire to the rules, so bolters were suddenly short-ranged if the unit moved. Shuriken catapults went from a 24” gun with good armor penetration to a 12” gun without. Who knows, 7th to 8th edition could be just as drastic. (Probably should be – 40k’s a mess). If FW can deal with it in a timely manner, great, but I doubt they can.

>>50502821
WHFB players said that FW should make 30k it's own game?

Also, how much discussion do you expect of a game that's not getting updates anymore? Historical wargame threads are pretty slow too, since new releases, updates, etc. aren't dropping every week and most fluff discussions come down to citing historical sources.

>>50497335

>They were his SONS.

Honestly I think people are riding a bit hard on this. I mean, nothing I've read suggests that the emperor had some lovey dovery feelings towards his "sons". Literally nothing.

Every attempt at dealing with them seems to stem from a desire to seriously unfuck whatever shit their childhoods had taught them. Like Horus was told about the sky, you know, because he'd been living in a scummy hive world and probably never saw the night sky in his life or been told anything reliable about what things like stars and planets are.

The fact that they were so extremely varied in their abilities and character seems to also suggest he deliberately designed them as literal tools with specific uses in mind. Go up against some superpowerful psyker race, maybe it'd be good to have an incredibly powerful psyker up your sleeve. Are we surrounded by enemies at all sides, better have a brickwall tell humans how to stack bricks properly. And so on.

but sure maybe the emperor was just sitting in his lab fantasizing about how he'd have a perfect set for a game of baseball for that permanent post-webway retirement.

>>50502685
I agree with you, flare shield is definitely too strong, (and Meltas should always do *something* at close range).

I like the idea of a strength reduction, however, it's more significant and the invuln saves apply just as much to "general purpose" weapons rather than forcing the meta to use dedicated "tank destroyer" weapons like the Venator.
But at the same time, being able to fire missile after missile at it without scratching it at all is rather absurd.

Perhaps the effect could be changed to:

>Roll a D3 if firing a blast or template weapon at the front arc of the vehicle. On a 3, reduce the strength of the attack by 1, on a 2, reduce strength by 2, and on a 1 the attack hits at its normal strength value. If firing any other kind of weapon, only reduce the strength by 1 on a 3, otherwise the attack hits as normal".

I've never written rules before so there's probably some glaring flaw I can't see here, but I think there should be some chance of hitting at a strength that can hurt it.

>>50503320
>I mean, nothing I've read suggests that the emperor had some lovey dovery feelings towards his "sons". Literally nothing.
did you not read the final battle between horus and the emperor?

>>50503421
Turns out the Triumph at Ullanor was because He was going to withdraw from the Crusade an He felt everybody needed a morale boost, so he ordered a full Triumph on a planetary scale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_triumph

What was this protectorate of the Imperium, all about?
I have an argue with a faggot who is talking that Big E want xenos to be part of the Imperium and Primarchs were acting against Emperor's will by destroying xenos. He is using this "protectorate of the Imperium," argument all the time and all i can find about it are 3 sentences in Fulgrim.

>>50503320
>I mean, nothing I've read suggests that the emperor had some lovey dovery feelings towards his "sons". Literally nothing.
The old fluff actually says that the Emperor was shocked that his best friend would marshal forces against him.

>>50503555
That's literally all there is. The idea is that given appropriate circumstances when a xenos species can be properly exploited without loss of human life, it was considered a viable path for someone in a primarch-level position. But it isn't even close to being the most preferred approach nor was it some mandate handed down from the Emperor.

>>50503320
>nothing I've read
maybe you should read some more, matey

>>50503421
Another reason why I stopped BL altogether.

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>>50503600
>The old fluff actually says that the Emperor was shocked that his best friend would marshal forces against him.
I wonder how was the relationship between Horus and Malcador. He says all primarchs tried to ascert themselves over him one way or the other as if they were jealous of his position as the Emperor's confident, which implies even Horus and Dorn did so.

>>50503600
>>50503435
Anyone trying to cling religiously to old lore AND is unwilling to accept anything but the literal interpretation of the scenes in new lore is just asking for a fight. We've known since the Tales of Heresy anthology that they wouldn't be sticking to old lore. I don't get why people keep dragging it in this far into the series.

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>>50503702
>Anyone trying to cling religiously to old lore AND is unwilling to accept anything but the literal interpretation of the scenes in new lore is just asking for a fight
I summon Laurie Goulding in attack mode!

>>50503691
BL is just soooooo bad. Fucking hell these second grade author are just ruining the setting for no reason.

The only reason their shit tier books sell is the setting they wantonly ignore. Fuck me.

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>>50503555
That's all there is, primarchs and space marines occasionally feeling guilty about exterminating men, women, and children by the billions and wondering if some of the xenos could just be ruled over as vassals. Meanwhile the Emperor (who, to be fair, lived through some bad times) is planning to wipe them out - along with mutant humans like the navigators and astropaths once the webway is open for business.

Anyway, how about some crunch discussion? Does the one-meltabomb rule make assault-oriented dreadnoughts OP?

How should assault-oriented armies handle tanks? If you’re running Orbital Assault you just put tactical support or heavy support squads in a drop pod, but if you aren’t using drop pods (and they aren’t nearly as available in 30k) then infantry-based armies are screwed. Assault squads and Outriders can’t reliably handle tanks anymore. I get the feeling that Blood Angels, Night Lords, and White Scars are going to have to start taking tanks or flyers. Or that Custodes grav-tank.

Taking down fortifications got a whole lot more difficult too (and it’s even harder to see why a squad could only place a single meltabomb against one).

>>50503756
>assault-oriented dreadnoughts OP?
>Dreads
>OP

HAAAAAAAAAAAA

No way. Perhaps a bit more scary in ZM, but chainfists exist.

>>50503702
>I don't get why people keep dragging it in this far into the series.
maybe because it's called The Horus Heresy, not XV's Folly: Humanity is Doomed Forever

Do you just want people to not compare a literal rewriting of something to the thing it's supposedly replacing? I mean, I can call the Beast series shit, but it is, at the end of the day, an original story.

>>50503834
FAQ confirmed as ploy to sell more terminators.

>>50503702
>unwilling to accept anything but the literal interpretation of the scenes in new lore

So we should take the period scenes with the actual people involved as rumours and half-truths told through a subjective narrator? See, that's the problems that "new is more canon" crowd will always stick to. Fucking hell, I'm pretty sure even Goldie handwaved FW fluff being different from BL fluff with "Well, FW fluff is written after the fact, so it's just wrong, where as BL is the god's honest truth."

So how do you not take all the new BL crap literally, when it seems like they're pushing it as such.

>I don't get why people keep dragging it in this far into the series.

Because new fluff is shit. And GW has demonstrated that, no matter how much Laura Goldie bitches about it, they'll do whatever they want, BL be damned.

>>50503900
>XV's Folly: Humanity is Doomed Forever
Which also doesnt make any sense because the webway project just wasnt that important. It just isnt when they could access the webway in so many other ways, so just saying it is doesnt count.

Also Emps wanting to cut off humanity from the warp so he could create a psychic race makes ZERO sense.

If Boxnoughts were AV 13/12/10, that'd be nice.
I mean at the cost of -1WS and +10 pts Cortus dreads get +1 frontal AV, frontal 5++, Fleet, Move through cover, and Atomantic Overcharge. A damn bargain.

>>50503968
>Because new fluff is shit. And GW has demonstrated that, no matter how much Laura Goldie bitches about it, they'll do whatever they want, BL be damned.

You again? No, anon. You have literally no proof for what you are claiming.

Also Alan Merret the fucking IP manager is Okaying and even proposing some of the changes. According to LG, Alan been hankering to scrub William King's version from the canon for a long time.

and considering that LG says that the Siege of Terra has already been written down, he might have done it already.

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>>50504045

>>50503968
Because, while BL is generally written as if it was the real events by people literally stood there, and FW as by an Imperial historian after the fact without access to all primary sources, it is also a thing in fiction that POV characters do not have all the information, their biases and opinions tint their perceptions and sometimes they just fucking lie.
As do historians who want to make one thing look better or more impressive than other things.
Thus, while we can discuss and argue the content of BL and FW in relation to the context around it, people stressing that there is only one possible reading of much of it are being too literal.
The entire setting of 40K - and some of HH - is built around half-forgotten legends, missing information and people in authority either being plain wrong or just fucking lying.

All that discussion bait is one of the reasons the franchise has gone on for decades with passionate fans like us lot.

>>50504010
Expand Boxnaught options, reduce cost.

Cortus Dreads are too cheap and/or not "junky" enough for budget-built contemptors.

But this was in a book where units didn't get updated if FW had no idea how to fix them. Looking at you Destroyers. All you needed was a points reduction.

>>50504001
>Also Emps wanting to cut off humanity from the warp so he could create a psychic race makes ZERO sense.

This has been explained so many times that anyone who brings this up is a certified cunt, You just intentionally flip what the Emperor said to just complain about something that isn't there.

>>50504001
>Also Emps wanting to cut off humanity from the warp so he could create a psychic race makes ZERO sense.
He didn't want to create a psychic race - he wanted to prevent humanity's psychicness (psychocity? psychosis?) from dooming it to destruction at the hands of Chaos. In fact, every indication is that he was trying to eliminate human psychics. The webway project would allow him to wipe out the navigators and astropaths. Other psychics were already being hunted down by the sisters of silence. Space marines were banned from using psychic powers. He was going to be the only one left (once Magnus had been glued to the Dark Glass machine).

>>50504079
Nice opinion. Would be a real shame if you had an argument to back it up.

>>50504001
>Also Emps wanting to cut off humanity from the warp so he could create a psychic race makes ZERO sense.
Backwards, the Emperor knew mankind would eventually become more psychic, so he planned to lessen their dependence on the warp. The final aim was to sever that connection in a way I'm not sure how.

But Dark Eldar are kind of like that, so maybe there's a way for mankind too.

>mfw Slaanesh is swallowed ;^) by the God of Human Pleasure, deliberately born out of a galactic orgy to dwarf the eldar one.

Anyhow, Warp-independant travel is (was) the way to go, and would have ensured the prevalence of this Galactic Empire. Because as you know, this isn't the first Imperium of Mankind.

One was lost when the warp became impassable, pregnant with Slaanesh, and another one was lost when everything went Skynet. Webway travel would preserve things, and now that's gone.

Still, the project would have been salvageable, Magnus and all, had the Emperor survived the Heresy and acquired another warp gate. Alas, it didn't happen.
>>50504060
Bait is yummy

>>50504097
I explained in previous threads that you were in, you cunt.

These gentlemen got it >>50504089
>>50504099

So you insist on being a cunt? Do you like it? The Emprah explained his plan in plain Low Gothic didn't he?

>>50504097
>I haven't seen anyone disprove the invisible pink unicorn, so it must be true.
Not that anon, but the other two of us are explaining you what is going on. Your argument cannot be disproven because you lack one in the first place.
>>50504117
Thank you.

>>50504063
>it is also a thing in fiction that POV characters do not have all the information, their biases and opinions tint their perceptions and sometimes they just fucking lie.

So perpetuals aren't a thing and Emperor didn't get his power from Chaos, they're just crazy and think so?

>>50499145
You're wrong.

Rogue trader had it as a gaurdsman. Later turned to an IF termy, then a custode.

>>50504127
Lol. Guessing you didnt read the book then

>No. They eradicated their reliance on the warp but they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all.+
So first the Emperor will sever humanities connection to the warp
>And when the Imperium shields the entire species within the laws of my Pax Imperialis, when humanity is freed from the warp and united beneath my vision, I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.+
Then make them all psykers. Except you know they cant use any powers because no warp. Hack writers, hack stories.

>>50504165
We will the truth once Alivia's boot connects with Malcador's balls.

>>50504173
He's more right than you. The first appearance of Pius was in a text box about a regimental standard, and in the original HH fluff piece the Legion of the Terminator isn't mentioned.

>>50504190
Won't happen. By the time she reaches Mal he'll be Malcador the Hero on the throne. Some stupid Dannish chick would probably still try to hurt the man on the Throne though.

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Yet another Bitter Boy!

Tried to mark the battle damage xith stormhost silver instead of just leaving it like that this time, looks better imo.

Unfinished base, need to apply the mud, let it dry, yada yada.

>>50504179
>+I have conquered humanity’s cradle-world. I have conquered the galaxy, in order to shape mankind’s development as it at last evolves into a psychic race. No isolated pockets of our species may remain free, lest in their ignorance they invite destruction upon us all. I have shattered the hold of faith and fear over the human mind. Superstition and religion must continue to be outlawed, for they are easy doors for the warp’s denizens to enter the human heart. This is what we have already done. And soon I will offer humanity a way of interstellar travel without reliance upon Geller fields and Navigators. I will offer them means of communicating between worlds without reliance on the warp-dreams of astropaths. And when the Imperium shields the entire species within the laws of my Pax Imperialis, when humanity is freed from the warp and united beneath my vision, I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.+

Here is the whole context of the quote you cunt. He underlining his whole path from the beginning to him guiding their growth into being a psychic race. Afterwards, he will cut their connection to the Warp.

>>50504045
Alan Merret's no longer IP Manager. His word is worthless

>>50504258
>Afterwards, he will cut their connection to the Warp.

Literally the opposite you dumb cunt.

>when humanity is freed from the warp and united beneath my vision, I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.

>>50504287
Nope, the Emperor was recapping his whole plan, you dumbfuck, so that Ra can get the full picture.

Read what was before it.

>+The webway. Mankind is ascending, Ra. Humanity is taking a great developmental step, evolving into a psychic race. Uncontrolled psykers are lodestones for the warp’s touch. A species comprising them would suffer as the eldar suffered. And for the eldar, this evolutionary juncture was their final step before destruction. I will not let humanity be destroyed by the same fate. The eldar had the answers within their grasp but were too naive and too proud to save themselves. They had the webway, which could have been their salvation. But they never fully severed their connection to the warp. Their soulfires drew damnation upon their entire species.’

>Ra knew this, yet never had it been related to him in these exact words, flavoured as they were by the promise of prophecy. With the webway, humanity would need no Navigators. They would never need to rely on the unreliable warp-whispers of astropaths. Vessels would never enter the warp to be lost or torn apart by the entities that dwelt within it. But the eldar had done the same, had they not?

>>+No. They eradicated their reliance on the warp but they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all.+

Why does everyone enjoy talking about such a shit book? Seriously, the book fucking sucks. What does anyone gain by talking about it? Both sides need to go outside and stop shitting up the thread. Jfc

>>50504232
Good work man.

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>>50499145
First ever mention of anyone coming between the Emperor and Horus was Pius. Legend or not, it's still the first ever time anyone was said to come between the two.

The version with the terminator(s) came second.

>>50499188
>The doctrine the church teaches the soldiers is that he was a Guardsman who threw himself between Horus and the Emperor during a battle in the Imperial Palace.

It wasn't in the Imperial Palace, it was during the battle. The same battle in which the Emperor teleported to Horus' command bunker. There's no indication in the old fluff that Horus and Emperor actually fought at the palace.

Also, there's pic related, which has a squad of IF terminators burst in and attack Horus. And this too took place in the bunker on Terra, instead of in orbit.

>>50504323
Cont'ed....

For the billionth time.

The Emperor does not control the psychic evolution. It's happening on its own. Humanity is evolving into a psychic species.

Through the Imperium + the Webway, the Emperor plans on guiding humanity safely through their psychic evolution. After that is done, he will cut off their connection to the warp forever.

>>50504323

Literal retard. The entire problem is that this comes before. He says he'll sever humanities connection to the warp, THEN turn them into psychic ubermensch.

>>50504323
How does that counter act what I said at all mate? Seriously spell it out for me becuase all that does is back me up.

Emps wants to cut humanity off from the warp as stated in your post
>They had the webway, which could have been their salvation. But they never fully severed their connection to the warp.
>No. They eradicated their reliance on the warp but they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all.
So what is your point?

>>50504399
Are the crosses acceptable on Imperial Fist terminators before the Siege of Terra?

I don't see why not, given the prevalence of the cross in their heraldry, and the fact that it would make sense for the cross to become ubiquitous on terminator armour after Imperial Fist terminators participated in the attack on the flagship.
It makes sense the cross would be there to commemorate the IF terminators rather than just chosen by the Emperor as a random symbol.

>>50504412
After explaining things to Ra and Ra loses focus he recaps what he done so far and what he intends to do.

In this passage >>50504258 he is guiding humanity (WHICH HASN'T EVOLVED INTO PSYKERS YET) into becoming a psychic race.

In this passge >>50504323 he is telling Ra how a psychic humanity will escape the fate of the Eldar.

Damnit you are dumb.

>>50504399
>force axe
>clearly not an axe
this version isn't half bad, honestly. as long as he isn't a custodes or a perpetual, I don't really mind who dies to buy the emperor some time.

>>50504431
You

see


>>50504479

>>50501371
What's with the faces?

>severian looking like someone farted in the elevator he's in
>Malc looking like he's constipated
>chubby Siggy

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STOP PLEASE.

>>50504399
Sure.
But the article about him being a Saint literally says the soldier who supposedly gave his life by interposing himself between the two at the Imperial Palace.
The fluff changes. We can either say that the stories about the bunker, the palace and the barge are entirely different (the retcon approach) or we can say that they are corrupted versions of the same event because of chinese whispers over 10,000 years.
Same thing about the Termie; the text piece set on the barge doesn't say it was a Fist. So you can argue for literality and say we don't know the Legion, or you can draw contextually from sources like that one and suppose it was a Fist.
These distinctions are important to remember for the sake of discussions like this one, it's best to present as much accurate info as possible - even if it contradicts - and let people roll with it.
The problem arises when someone tries to say one version - their preferred version - is the *only* correct version.
(btw i happen to agree with you, I'm not trying to get on your case)

>>50504542
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGfWrJR5Ck

>>50504477
The group that became the Black Templars had the cross of the Knights Hospitaller, and I'm pretty sure markings similar to the Crux Terminatus were used to denote veterans even during 30k.

Seeing that the Crux is mostly to denote veteran status (and thus the right to wear terminator armour), it's probably just something that came about from the Legion veteran marking, rather than the attack on Horus' barge.

>>50504399
A grenade launcher on a power fist? I want one!

>>50504531
Nigga absolutely everything looks like constipation to you. I bet you see smiling faces as "relief about easy evacuation" faces.

>>50504479

Why? Why turn humanity into a race of psykers only to take it away? It'd be like me teaching you to be an amazing juggler then cutting off your arms. So why do it?

Face the facts. It's poorly written drek, and the Emperor is a retarded

>>50504542
Which one of you niggas applied for jainitor? We need you! Hot Pockets, I summon you!

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Why did this subplot even exist?
It was a waste of time and completely pointless.
Dan Fagnett should be taken out back and shot.

>>50504580
Oh you can have as many as you want.
Grave Wardens, we call them :^)
>>50504485
>>clearly not an axe
It's a sawed-off glaive :^)
>>50504605
>Why did this subplot even exist?
$$$

>>50504589
Actually its take it away then teach them. But stop talking to Carnac brother he's not arguing against you. He doenst address points he just repeats himself then backs away if you get him on something and says your reading it wrong or that it doesnt matter because this source over here vaguely supports a strawman. So stop shitting up the thread.

>>50504589
This.
And if the Emperor can just cut off the species' connection to the Warp then why doesn't he just do that and cut out the faffing about?

>>50504595
Not hotpockets, but I'm not sure. It's not birdgirl, being a retard is indeed legal :/

>>50504605

Go fuck yourself

>>50504589
BECAUSE LIKE I SAID HE CANNOT STOP IT. He has no control over it. It's thousands years of evolution and warp exposure at work. He is not turning them, nature is turning them.

At best he can guide them away from exploding into daemons and use the available tools (The Webway, Imperial Truth, the Imperium) to steer humanity away from the Warp and ultimately cut them off from it forever. Humanity can only be saved this way.

>>50504605
It could have been a good plot but they botched it, made Guilliman into a power hungry retard that secedes because his dad missed a Skype call

>>50504605
Laurie said that when GW took over editorial control of BL, they forced them to introduce more books and spin things out longer, so the HH team had to come up with subplots to extend the series.
Now BL have editorial control back, they've accelerated the timeline back to warp five.
He added that the main concern now is tying up as many subplots and character arcs as they can.

I'm actually a little woried they'll fuck that up by cramming shit together.
Annadale's book is gonna end the ruinstorm and secundus plots, as well as explain where the four primarchs all go.
Kyme's is gonna wrap up both Vulkan and the Iron Hands subplots.

I can't imagine those being fully satisfying.

>>50504557
>But the article about him being a Saint literally says the soldier who supposedly gave his life by interposing himself between the two at the Imperial Palace.

No, it says "during". During the assault on the Imperial Palace. Not "at". That's an indication of time, not location. If you read the Slaves to Darkness account of the event, the traitors are advancing through the palace and once the Outer Palace is abandoned, the Emperor acts, disconnect himself from the Astronomican and teleports to Horus' bunker. So the assault on the Palace is going on constantly on the background, the traitor forces pushing through it to reach him.

>>50504676
What would have been an acceptable excuse for Imperium Secundus?
Not the "No excuses", but instead go from "The Imperium Secundus is a thing, therefore the excuse is..."

>>50504638
Shut up, cunt. The points were made and you are too stupid to get them.

>>50504644
Because the psychic evolution is happening at an acculturated rate. It will happen before humanity can fully dominate the Webway which needs for his "Zero Warp" plan.

>>50504687
That's a level of splitting hairs that's not entirely useful m8.

>>50504580
That's what used to exist. Now it's just the grenade harness mounted on the back of the terminator sergeant, and isn't the same. They could have just done a version that mounts on the back of a power fist and make it like a 5pts. upgrade to the sergeant's/character's power/chainfist.

>>50504706
Guilliman is conflicted between helping his dad and keeping Ultramar safe, so he locks it up real good and turns it into a hermit kimgdom until the Lion comes breaking shit down

>>50504736
Making Gulliman care more about Ultramar than the greater Imperium was actually interesting. It just ended up handled kind of badly.

>>50504727
You're the one insisting it happened at the Palace, based on faulty info. I'm just telling you what the actual text says.

>>50504748
The Imperium is just an empire than can be reconquered from traitors. Ultramar, my boy, is the future of mankind.

>>50504722
Carnac you dont draw power from the webway. Psykers can only work with the warp. I honestly dont understand your point at all.

>>50504258
>>50504287
It’s open to interpretation. “I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race” could mean one of two things:
a) I will make grow mankind into a psychic race in ways I approve of (that seems contradictory with “when humanity is freed from the warp”, though).
b) Mankind is (accidentally) becoming a psychic race, so I’ll shepherd that potentially dangerous change by childproofing society from all of the dangers of the warp.

So that quote could have opposite meanings and I can see how you'd arrive at either one.

>>50504733
And what keeps you from modelling the grenade harness on the termie sgt's forearm?

>>50504781
What are you even about? Are you drunk? What does power have to do with anything?

>>50504754
It's okay, I've got the red book next to me.
But I don't find it useful as you're pushing for one reading over all the other possible ones, based on one interpretation of a single word, all the whole thing's moot in terms of the literal events as it's out of date fluff. It's too narrow an approach for me to fully agree with now, but if that's your preferred interpretation, all good. I'm really not a "You're wrong faggot" kind of guy. I think I'll leave that to the anons shitposting about their MoMs.

>>50504722
>Because the psychic evolution is happening at an acculturated rate.
10 000 years of unchecked psychic evolution have passed, and the only thing you hear now is
>Huh, a lot of wyrdvane recruits this year, huh?
>Nah, the Global psykering is a myth started by the chinese.

Nothing happened in ten millenia, which was plenty of time to win the galaxy and the webway had the heresy not happened.