EDH/Commander General

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Is it worth running effects like Cursecatcher, judges familiar, and spiketail hatchling type effects in my derevi stax list. Its getting pretty tuned and all the primers say that they are good enough but idk man.

What are some good options for getting things in the yard in a monoblack deck? I get that entombed and buried alive are things, I just want to dump tons of things in the yard.

>>50471794
Like from play or from your graveyard or...

>>50471784
In Derevi sure, her Twiddle ability works good with Flying Men.

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post you're favorite waifus that you like to play (and imagine kissing) in edh

What commander is the best waifu?

What commander is the best Husbando?

>>50471784
As a personal note, spiketail hatchling goes in every blue deck. Worst comes to worst, your opponent needs to carefully manage their mana. Best case scenario, you have a counter with a bunch of tax effects and your opponent forgets about it.

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>>50471794

>>50471808
I'm not sure, I know a lot of discard options, but that requires card draw, and Volrath already eats your own hand pretty hard. Preferably something off top deck would be best.

>>50471824
Oh, that's nice. That's really really nice. Holy fuck, why don't I have one of those? Suddenly Esper self-mill reanimator seems like a thing.

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>casting blasphemous act, arcbond, and deflecting palm in the same turn
How did 26 damage to the face taste Jake?

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>>50471846
I also like this. It's slower but fucks your opponents up while it's at it. Depending on whether you care about opposing graveyards there's also stuff like Mindcrank. I prefer play-and-forget cards like those versus stuff like Keening Stone.

>>50471784

They make people leave up 1 mana for spells they really care about, and if you're running tax effects and tapping down their lands and stuff, they can be strong

They pair well with opposition if you run that card, glare of subdual is the Jank version that's still playable

>>50471973
>Mindcrank
>Bottomless Pit
>presumably Necrogen Mists
Ah, a sneaky black anon after my own heart.

Let me ask you this question, is it worth running reanimator in Volrath? I'm torn, I have a lot of fun discard related things, but 10 slots of my deck are currently filled with various reanimator nonsense, that is only really applicable after I throw down with Volrath. In a Golgari, Dimir, or BUG build, I can count on mutual mill to fill my yard with various things at a reasonable pace, but monoblack seems a little stifled in that regard.

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What do you guys think of Mirrorwood as a pauper commander? Naya with a combat stopping/ redirecting power seems pretty good to me. I read someones deck idea for him online and they were talking about banding tribal, but the amount of things at common for banding seem pretty slim.

>>50472060
>>presumably Necrogen Mists
Meh, they'll just toss stuff you don't want, Pit works best.

>Let me ask you this question, is it worth running reanimator in Volrath?
Certainly the good ones like Animate Dead, Necromancy, Dance of the Dead, Reanimate. It's not to the battlefield but Oversold Cemetery is nice with him. I'm no expert on Volrath, I'm just going back to my long-retired Tariel deck.

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Reminder not to fuel the waifu posting

how 2 build obzeddady pls help

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>>50472329
>Pissbaby embarrassed by his shit waifu detected

I'll bet it's one of the partners
EEEEW, I bet it's Akiri!

>>50472288
Okay, I see your point. I'll just keep my deck as is, it's very strong, but I keep wanting to build monoblack discard, and my Lazav keeps evolving into more bizarre incarnations. Right now it's soft-control pseudo-combo beatdown? I'm not sure how to describe it, pretty much mill stuff, fuck with everyone's hand, and nuke any creature that hits the board. It works surprisingly well, but it's far from the discard deck it used to be.

What I'm worried about, as a compulsive curve-into-value guy, is that the deck is very unbalanced in terms of creatures, to power up Volrath. I'm running all the good cheap token producers, but most of my creatures are at 5cmc+, and almost all of them are over 4cmc, which means that if I'm not ramping, or reanimating, I'm going to be a little durdle prone.

I wanted to splash some more mill to fill up my yard with my stuff, because I could honestly care less about what my opponents are running, and I'm shifting focus to more of a field-wipe sort of deal, so that hopefully Volrath can hit through an empty field. Dirge of Dead seems underrated for my setup, but chump blockers will be the death of me.

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>>50472390
fuck that image is from money for nothing. nostalgia overload.

>>50472422
Dont give attention to it and it will go away. He probably has never heard of the song.

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>>50472359
It's pretty dank with things like Drogskol Cavalry and Panharmonicon

Finally made a tappedout list for my Breya deck.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/29-11-16-Bsa-breya-etherium-shaper

Trying to avoid overlapping it too much with my Slobad list, so this decklist is more focused on artifact creatures, also trying to avoid turning this into a combo deck, so no KCI, Nim Deathmantle, Clock of Omens etc.

Suggestions for good artifact token generators are welcome.

>>50472390
All waifus are shit, even mine. Especially mine.

>>50472548
and I'm aware I need the Tezzeret planeswalkers...

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/breya-grave-combos/

howie lookin, boys?

>>50472548
>>50472580
Am I the only one who doesn't care about these 4c commanders? They're just so uninteresting... At least last year the product was ineligible.

>>50472627

>ineligible

Wut

>>50472627
You're not the only one, but you have to release the commander products are the only 'new' things to really discuss since the kaladesh legendaries are quite lacklustre

>>50472651
intelligible. I missed a couple letters.

>>50472655
Fair enough, Kaladesh was completely underwhelming, and I don't really have hope for any of the new sets. It seems like they ran out of design space.

>>50472627

I like Breya because it just makes too much sense, R, U, B, and W all have something to offer an artifact deck and thopters are fun

The other ones don't interest me from a standpoint of making good use of their color combo, although a good yidris deck is fun to see just because of the value

I hate saskia with all my heart, I hate the keyword soup on atraxa but proliferate is at least somewhat interesting

And I hate the butt buddies for being the color combo I was most excited about and I hate group hug

>>50472627
Yeah, none of them really do it for me, either.
>Breya
Don't like artifact shenanigans. Nothing against it, just not my thing.
>Atraxa
Well designed but boring. Don't wanna do super friends and I already have a "+1/+1 counters matter" deck.
>Kings
Help better decks go off quicker? Pass. I'll stick with pillow fight Gahiji.
>Yidris
I didn't wannt to play Wanderer then and I still don't. Again, nothing wrong with the design, but not my style
>Saskia
>Soldier
Literally unplayable.

She's the one I'd be most likely to build, but she's waaaay down on my interest list.

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>>50472390
>tfw your waifu is totally qt

>>50472682

Kaladesh was awesome, and aether revolt is gonna be even better

>>50472743
>source required
Maybe if you're brand new to magic.

>>50472718
>>50472735
The only commanders I really like are the Silias Ren and Vial Smasher/Karuum combo, I just can't math my way around the landbase. Why would I invest in a 4c deck, when I could just build 5c for the same money? Why would I pimp out a land base on a deck that's going to be filled with janky nonsense? How am I supposed to narrow down my cardbase when a 3c deck already requires me to sift through like 400 cards?

I'm just profoundly meh. I was hoping the commanders would be interesting, and Ydris is really the only one I can see being anywhere close to fun.

To the anon who asked about building Daretti on a budget, it can be done. It's really not that expensive desu. The only expensive cards that are a must are Wurmcoil Engine, Trinisphere, Defense Grid. Mana Crypt is really good and I'd advise getting it because playing with it is so much better for every single EDH deck, it's basically a better sol ring.

Here's muh list
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/competitive-daretti-stax/

I'l just point out that prices on tappedout are inflated. Burning of Xinye is cheap because of the FTV reprint.

>>50472805

No I've been playing since Urza's saga and Kaladesh was very fun to draft and had some very interesting cards for eternal formats like panharmonicon, aether flux reservoir, and combustible gearhulk in edh, paradoxical outcome for vintage, cathartic reunion for modern

>>50472627
The only one I really like is Breya, the rest are really boring to me.

>>50472743
The only thing Aether Revolt is going to be good for is more vehicles for Dude Where's Macar.
Here's hoping for a Motorcycle and a R/B Pilot

>>50472929
>paradoxical for vintage
>not playing it in EDH

Also Dramatic Reversal, holy shit that card is great.

Rashmi is also a great commander

>>50472805
I'm really having trouble with that cardbase thing.

When I was first making my Breya deck, I threw together a pile of playable cards I wanted to add and it ended up around 300 cards.

>>50472929
>draft
Opinion discarded. Of course it's good in draft, it's designed specifically around it. And while there are a handful of cards I was pleasantly surprised with, like Ninth Bridge Patrol and the green gearhulk, the VAST majority of the set is just bland and uninteresting, particularly with how hard it's been pushed and the exceptionally poor quality of lore.

>>50473006
>dramatic reversal
Amazing in memnarch. Good taste.

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>>50472987
>R/B Pilot
I'd get into standard just to go up against my friend's R/W Vehicle deck.

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>>50472740
S T O P

>>50473058

>hurrrrr durrr you must be a noob
>oh you like draft? That makes you dumb

if you don't like draft youre not really into magic at all

Also every set is designed around draft, but they don't all end up fun to draft, BFZ was shit to draft, kamigawa was shit to draft

Maybe you're right about Kaladesh lore being bad I don't read the lore articles, but from a card design standpoint it's good, and the light lore you get just reading the card text and seeing the art is good

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>>50473058
>He doesn't draft
Wouldn't let you buy packs with Good Boy Points, eh?

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Is Atraxa considered a Timmy or Spike commander?

>>50471811
king macar is the best husbando because he's rich

>>50473344
Johnny. He just wants to ult all his planeswalkers and have big numbers of counters

>>50473400
I meant timmy, fuck.

>>50473346
What could go wrong!?

>>50473400

Aren't planeswalker ults and big numbers Timmy things?

Johnny would be like convoluted inefficient combinations of cards, like that one guy that wanted to build Yasova so that he could bounce his opponents creature and then bounce it with crystal shard

>>50473423
>>50473445

Oh my b

>>50473145
You know what was fun to draft? Khans. I bet Alara block in general woild have been fun too, but I did't start playing until Worldwake.

>>50473467

Alara block WAS fun to draft, not the best set ever but it was fun, I think khans was better but alara was fun, I especially loved drafting esper

The best sets to draft for me were zendikar, innistrad, time spiral/future sight/planar chaos

>>50472740
fucking mirin' those arms desu

>>50472735
>>Atraxa
>Well designed but boring.
>Well designed
>designed

Kek.

>>50473533
Yeah Innistrid was good too. I bet Time Spiral block was fun to draft, it looks like a blast.

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am I a bad person for running this in zada

>>50474001
Best draft format ever, if you could keep up with it. It was pretty complicated but was extremely excellent.

>>50474042

Kinda yeah

Zada has no trouble winning and doing silly stuff, why would you make the game into a shitty version of roulette?

I guess in a token deck this card makes a little more sense because your permanents aren't worth much

>>50474042
Seems like it's not worth the time it would take to resolve

>>50474043

Yeah it was definitely better if you had some experience with ability like storm and buyback and such, cuz the format was ability word soup, but I loved it so much

Also a lot of people hated drafting avacyn restored because of how stupid it was if your opponent drafted an entreat the Angels or a bonfire of the damned

But personally i have some of my fondest memories drafting that set, with ghostly flicker at common, ghostly flicker is one of my all time favorite cards, so versatile

What are some multi purpose life gain cards other than Elixir of Immortality that I could possibly slot into Mizzix?
For clarification: Mine isn't a storm or any infinite combo shenanigans Mizzix; its mostly a hang back and manage threats/the field until I can pick people off and/or other people do my work for me.
Thanks!

>>50474291

Venser's journal is barely multipurpose, but I've seen it be decent in my friends UW control deck, sounds like yours is UR controllish

Rules question:

The new card yahenni's expertise says

>all creatures get -3/-3 until end of turn.
>you may cast a card from your hand with cmc 3 or less without paying its mans cost

The two effects are in different "paragraphs" and they appear in that order

My question is, if you were to use the second effect to cast a creature spell with cmc 3 or less, would that creature get -3/-3??

I'm not sure if the order things are written matters, but I suppose with a card like tooth and nail, the order matters because otherwise you'd have to put into play creatures that you didn't tutor with tooth and nail

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>>50471810

>>50474516
No because you get to cast it as expertise resolves so it still goes on the stack.

>>50474042
can break combo in half and is one of Red's round-about ways to deal with opposing enchantments, totally fine, fuck the haters

>>50474559

Right but if the effects of the spell resolve in the order they are written, the -3/-3 happens before the creature is cast, that's why I'm confused

Maybe you're right but then I have to wonder if that was intentional, like they could've said cast a *noncreature* spell with cmc 3 or less

>>50474042
Don't listen to the nay-sayers. Scrambleverse is the single best card to run in EDH, and I love you for doing that.

>>50474591
>>50474677

These guys are stupid the card is bad and not fun to resolve

>>50474702

Actually I take it back, in a zedruu deck it's cool

anyone make something cool with the partner commanders yet?

>>50473985
You gonna refute it, or just drop catch phrases?

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/maziwreck-the-directors-cut/

Made a few small edits and looking for feedback, added in Rampaging Baloths for the possibility of getting more sac fodder with land recursion, not much creatures recursion due to meta being more heavy on land hate

>>50474761
Well a friend of mine made a deck using that 2/2 that makes saprolings and the flanking guy who gives 2 power or less creatures evasion.

Then propped it full of after-attack buffs. Works fairly well, don't have a decklist though,

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What's the secret tech that's 2 hot 4 EDHrec? I noticed that Brightstone Ritual wasn't on there, and I wonder what else I'm missing.

>go on xmage to test out meme deck
>join a casual game
>guy playing leovold plays a mox diamond and stuff and casts leovold on turn 2
>oh boy here we go again
>turn 3
>he casts wheel and deal on everyone
>cast swords to plowshares on his leovold
>he fucking leaves on the spot

would've given me a better hand too

>>50472260
...It's not legendary?

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>>50474885
Loving Every Laugh

>>50474926

Doesn't have to be legendary for pauper, just uncommon.

>>50472260

Thought about doing exactly that.

>>50474870
I've had a lot success with Volcanic Vision, Volcanic Offering, and Sprout Swarm.

>>50474042
I personally enjoy thieves auction more but good taste plus most spikes & tryhards will scoop rather then try to resolve that card. I personally run mine in a melek chaos and possibility storm shenanigans deck.

I really want to run a deck with pics related but everything I try ends up not being able to use them or terrible.
I've made other bad strategies work before just by being a better player than my friends, but this one seems to be beyond me.
Any advice?

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A majority of my cards were stolen a few weeks ago. Since I had to rebuild my deck I decided to foil it out. Unfortunately Contamination doesn't come in foil. What do?

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>>50475223
Man I am so smart

>>50475249
Get a foil peel alter

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/chandra-and-the-kaladesh-flames/

I'd appreciate some feedback on this. Thanks.

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>>50472409

>>50475249
Glitter.

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>>50475259
?

I dunno.

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Is there anything better than watching a smug blue player sit back with untapped mana, then proceeding to cast your red shit anyway?

>>50474805
Its just keyword soup with proliferate tagged on. Seems like an after thought really. White has 0 proliferate cards, black has 2. The color shes not at least has 1. It just is good stuff colors for planeswalker deck enabling, nothing more. I wouldn't say its well designed at all either.

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>>50475437
mah brotha of anotha motha

>>50475223
>>50475259
I actually originally tried to build this deck around stuff like that:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mannichi-edh-3/

Some powerful tech:
Break Through the Line
Crafty Pathmage
Dwarven Nomad
Dwarven Warriors
Goblin Tunneler
Imperial Recruiter
Tawnos's Wand
Coralhelm Guide
Ethereal Usher
Inner-Flame Igniter
Marchesa's Smuggler
Minamo Sightbender
Razor Swine
Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist

Also grab some effects like Moonveil Dragon, Githu Firebreathing, and Captured Flame.

A few other similar payoff cards:
Coral Fighters
Goblin Grenadiers
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
Identity Thief
Immolating Souleater
Kukemssa Pirates
Orcish Squatters
Prophetic Flamespeaker
Riptide Entrancer
Riptide Mangler
Somnophore
Stigma Lasher
Terra Ravager
Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Thalakos Deceiver
Thalakos Dreamsower
Valakut Fireboar

Now comes some choices:
Potentially splash W or B. W has a bunch of tech that makes creatures with power 2 or less more viable like Revalark and Solar Tide, while B has some nasty creatures that do similarly fun stuff when they get through. But if you insist on UR, then Jori En, Ruin Diver or Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist are your best options.

Also consider your wincon:
No matter what color identity you go for, low power creatures aren't doing you any favors to win with combat damage, consider running infect as your main wincon, or possibly mill by running by stuff like Barbed Shocker, Scalpelexis, and Crosstown Courier.

Most of your creatures will be too small to deal with the kind of stuff flying around commander, so go hard into pillowfort tech, Smoke, Propaganda, Silent Arbiter, etc. Also, first strike is your friend, if you can kill your opponents creatures first then it wont matter how small your toughness is. Sentinel is also useful, especially if you run a bunch of tech to swap P/T (which is really handy if you have a lot of first strike).

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>>50473631
>>50475852
Let's show those island jockeys what happens when you attempt to tame dame flame and I don't mean a successfully resolved counterspell.

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>>50475437
>>50475852
>>50475899

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/whos-your-obzedaddy-2/

would like some critique on my Obzedat deck. it's tough to build orzhov in a way that isn't just goodstuff

>>50475899
Can you just pick an invalid target?

>>50475949
no

>>50475949
No, but you can redirect the counterspell onto itself

>>50476045
>>50475899
01.07.2013 Wild Ricochet can target (and copy) any instant or sorcery spell, not just one with targets. It doesn’t matter who controls it.

>>50476063
that's not what he asked

>>50476101
yeah my bad

>>50476062
You cannot, but the copy can target the original, which is hopefully what you meant

>>50476147
Yeah that's what I was going for. I phrased it very poorly.

All my cards for my Newzuri deck are finally here and I have plans on Friday to finally pilot it.
Never been a big creature player so am pretty hyped.
Should be able to get a fair amount of four player games.

Anyone else have an EDH night coming up?
Who are you bringing?
Any new additions you want to see hit the table?

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FUCK BLUE FUCK BLUE
WHY DID ROSEWATER DESIGN BLUE?
ITS NOT FUN
FUCK BLUE UGH
POST YOUR BEST BLUE HATE
IF YOU PLAY BLUE GO AWAY
COUNTERSPELLS ARE GAY
WHENEVER I PLAY KITCHEN TABLE ALL BLUE CARDS ARE BANNED
IM GOING TO CONVINCE MY LGS OWNER TO BAN ALL BLUE
|BLUE IS BAD

>>50476282
>mfw working on my fifth blue deck

I had a really good competetive Sharuum deck and when I stepped down to kitchen table with friend I split the goodness between all the Blue Guilds.

However Melek was my first commander and when I switched to Jhoira I funneled good counterspells from her and Sharuum into a Mono Blue Talarand deck.

My playgroup can be a bit too casual when it comes to removal, counterspells and board wipes so I have to be that guy sometimes so they dont just Timmy out all the time.

I was wondering about an Atraxa ninjutsu build. Green would give ramp, along with g/u for draw and +1 counters. B/w would also give some good removal spells.

Any suggestions? Figured I ask here before trying to make an attempt.

>>50476411
anything more than U/B seems unnecessary if you just want to build ninjitsu. your deck would be all over the place

>>50476440
I agree but I'm not feeling any of the b/u legendaries. Maybe Leovold? I just really have a hard time making a deck without green or red in it.

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>>50476282
EVEN BLUE HATES BLUE, I HATE MYSELF WHEN I PLAY BLUE, THATS WHY I DONT PLAY BLUE

>>50476562
what I'm saying is that if you want ninjitsu as the deck's maintheme, you'll only lose consistency by branching out into other colours. On a side note, leo pulls way a lot of hate that you don't want on you if your deck isn't optimized.

>>50476656
Really? Why the hate?

>>50476282
Whatever it was that did this at instant speed (Boil I think?) is fucking great.

>>50476722

Just look at leovold m8

Gonna be banned soon

>>50476722
You dont know? Leovold has been dominating the edh scene left and right. He is incredibly powerful. My meta is competitive (ABUR duals, turn 4 kills, etc etc) and we know to knock out the leo player first, because he can often have a turn 3 lock on the table.

A friend of mine does what you mentioned. He runs a Leo at the head of his normal deck that isnt built around him, and he almost always immediately loses. People like drawing cards.

>>50476762
You can basically prevent people from playing the game turn 4.

Anvil of Bogarden
Leovold
Dark Deal

Hope you like what you have, because that's what you get, now. He's pretty busted.

>>50476282
Tsunami, Nature's Wrath, Choke, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Seedtime backed up by Boseiju, who Shelters All in his smug face.

God I hate blue players so much...

Pharika bro here

Haven't sued in awhile, and I'm curious if anyone knows anything new that might be good for this:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/pharika-build/?cat=color&sort=

Only stipulation is no infinite. I don't have a problem with it, but this deck was set out to be a BG deck that didn't rely on the GY or go infinite.

>>50476887 was for >>50476722

>>50476892

>blue players

Wtf? People don't have colors unless they're 11 years old

Adults play every color because they aren't retarded

>>50476920
Dirty Blue spotted.

>>50476963
11 year old confirmed

>>50476963

>blue spotted

And red
And green
And white and black

You are like a little baby.

>>50476991
>>50476979
>>50476963
>>50476920
I hate to point it out but
>this circlejerk

>>50476991
you mean you play blue and splash other colors for goodstuffs

>>50477096

A circle jerk is when everybody agrees tho

Also

>I hate to say this unnecessary thing
>Ima do it anyway

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>>50476920
You know exactly I mean. Players who primarily play blue. Their arrogant attitude, their smugness. The whole design of the color that appeals to them. Doing everything other colors do while drawing a ton of cards on the way. Thus it being the strongest color in almost every eternal format. The feeling that all blue players somehow are social rejects that want to feel allmighty with their permission an prison strategies. The whole meme about better players play more blue.

It's not even the color, it's the people that come with it.

>>50477168

>you know exactly what I mean

Right that's why I called you out for that childish shit

The rest of your post is just delusional nonsense born of frustration cuz you fucking suck at magic

>>50477168
that comic is poking fun at crybabies, not blue.

maybe you thought it served your point? but that image and that post makes you out to be some kind of whiny bitch

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Is he killing EDH?

>>50476887
That's hilarious.

>>50476835
>>50476806
Well hey now. I've only ever played edh at the kitchen table with friends. Only reason I suggested him at all is cuz I pulled one during a draft and now he collects dust.
Besides, my group usually targets me anyway. I'm the guy that actually knows how to make a good deck out of us. Maybe I should go degenerate, put the fear of god into them...

>>50477168
exactly what i hate about exclusively blue "players", not people who play blue.

>>50477314
i think the point is blue players always make sure they use every mana they can because every land not tapped is mana wasted and is one less card they couldve drew i.e. cheap mana wise

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>>50477466
forgot pic

>>50477393
He doesn't really give that much of a shit about it, so no. Sheldon on the other hand...

>>50471846
I run mesmeric orb in my Sedris reanimator and it is a HOUSE. It can be quite disruptive for opponents. People get rustled

If you play Kodama's Reach does the land that enters the battlefield count as your land played if you didn't play one before it entered?

If not does that mean you can just play the one you got put into your hand from Kodama's Reach?

>>50477630
No, yes.

Anyone ever try Archangel Avacyn / the Purifier as a Boros commander?

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>>50477817
I was making one until marchesa came out, black tutors were just too good compared to the flash indestructable.

I want to see Sheldon play a week with people who don't know what a social contract is.

>>50476185
>>50476062
If you cast a redirecting spell such as Redirect or Swerve, you can change the target of counterspell to Swerve, which counters the counterspell because it loses the target after Swerve has resolved.

>>50477867
Haven't you seen his tweets before he plays at EDH side-events at GP's?

People make a point of making unfun decks with cards they think should be banned and playing them against him.

A really nice way of saying "YOU REFUSE TO BAN THIS CARD? NOW SUFFER."

>>50477817
Cheap boardwipes .dec.

Spicy mode: Worldslayer .

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>go to company EDH night
>someone breaks out all 5 precons and we get a 5 man game going with only unmodified precons
>play yidris
>lose, but still have a blast
I'm pulling the trigger on buying this precon online for roughly $21, shipped and sealed. What are some good cheap upgrades I can do to it? I don't want to be too competitive with this build, I mostly just want to cascade into goodstuff

>>50478020
Maelstrom Wanderer.
Crystal Shard.
Notion Thief.
Possibility Storm.

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REMOVE BLUE remove blue
you are worst color. you are the color idiot you are the color smell. return to jace ass. to our blue cards you may come our house. you may live in the fire….ahahahaha ,jace we will never forgeve you. cetnik rascal FUck but fuck asshole jace stink counter sqhipere shqipare..azorius genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead jace..ahahahahahJACE WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget ravnica .Azorius we kill the king , Jace return to your precious Ravnica….hahahahaha idiot Teferi and Jace smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE BLUE FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. aurelia+gideon+liliana+krenko=kill Jace…you will ww2/ urza alive in lorwyn, sorin making album of ravnica . fast rap sorin ravnica. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of sorin… you are ppoor stink jace… you live in a island hahahaha, you live in a whale
sorin alive numbr one #1 in ravnica ….fuck the guildpact ,..FUCKk ashol JACE no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur flag and plane. sorin aliv and real strong wizard kill all theblue farm aminal with rap magic now we the sorin rule .ape of the zoo presidant ashiok fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and jace wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our game we will crush u lik a skull of cephalid. blue worsestss colr

>>50478020
rogue's passage so yidris can hit more often, lightning greaves to protect yidris and haste him.

>>50478103

Instead of rogue's passage pick up a Shizo, deaths storehouse

Or both I suppose

>>50478135
yeah it'd be better to have. gives you more unblockable options. shizo is better for colors, rogue's has better(but more expensive) evasion.

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I love kraj because of the stupid bullshit that can be accomplished with creatures otherwise never played.

I've literally never had someone respond to jodahs avenger until a double striking shadow 12/12 kraj is coming their way. Phyrexian devourerer too is INSANE. it's just such a fun deck to pilot.

Oh, and titanias song and march of the machines is fun, because then I can put counters on the artifacts and start doing weird shit with them as well.

Of course being able to turn planeswalkers into artifact creatures with +1/+1 counters and using their abilities as kraj is also funny.

>>50478263
Yeah but also very disappointing, since you can't use the minus abilities as he has no loyalty counters on him (presumably) and he is still restricted by the "once per turn" planeswalker activation.

>>50478305
You can't minus him when he is a walker? I havent cheated I dont think, but can you explain that ruling for me so I don't fuck up in the future?

So he can "+1" (or +x, whatever) but it doesnt put any loyalty counters on it? So without loyalty counters he can't minus anything? Or?

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>>50475920

>>50478375
No, he can gain loyalty counters without any problem.
But he starts with 0 loyalty counters on him, so you'd have to plus him a few times first.

The activation of a planeswalker has a COST.

So a -2 is basically read as "Remove two loyalty counters from ~: Do X"

If you don't have any loyalty counters on the Kraj, you can't activate the minus ability as you can't pay for the cost.

So basically, it would be like having a planeswalker that starts on 0 loyalty (but doesn't die).

>>50478464
>>50478375
So the best way to use it would probably be to use Karn, Nicol Bolas, that absolutely shitty new Nissa, or even Gideons +1: Gain 1 loyalty for each creature target player controls, to get a lot of + loyalty, to easily activate a gamebreaking ulti like JtMS

>>50478464
>>50478499

Oh, that makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out for me! I just am happy kraj can do all that without being able to be swung at to have loyalty counters removed

>>50478173

I think Shizo is just way better because if you just want to connect then it should be functionally equal to unblockability in a multiplayer game, and paying 4 mana just ruins your whole cascade value turn

>>50478738
Shizo is too expensive for what I'm building. I'm trying to make the deck with a $30 budget ($21 for the sealed deck, $9 for singles, excluding cards I already own)

I can't really call the deck full budget since I happen to have Ancestral Vision, Maelstrom Wanderer, SoFaF, and better lands chilling around my house though

>>50478781

Oh I thought Shizo was like $3, I guess $8 is kinda expensive

>some guy actually wants to buy my LED Dredge

Who /going to buy a lot of staples very soon/ here?

I need to build 2 more decks, one combo and one creature-based. I want to spread the colours out evenly so I need across the 2 decks a combination of 1 white, 2 black, 2 green, 1 blue. Ideally this would be either BUG+Junk / Golgari+Atraxa.
What else comes close. Another red deck is definitely out of the question, but what do anons recommend as combo and creature in those general colours?

>>50478420
Strictly better.

>>50478020
>company EDH night
Do you work in heaven?

>>50479439
nvm, I figured out what I'm going to build.
So:
How do I build Tasigur as competitive as possible?
How do I build Doran as competitive as possible?
In multiplayer that is. Anyone care to share their lists?

you know what gets asked everyday?

budget stax commander. hardmode: no red.

>>50479712
How budget?
and what non-red colour?

>>50479719
any non-red. I play a lot of red.

and I dunno around 50 but less than 100.

>>50479723
Shame Teferi went up in price. He could have been built as turboStasis quite cheap.
Is GAA IV ok? I'll build a list.

>>50479723
>>50479712
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gaa-iv-stax-for-anon
That's about as budget as I can make it.

>>50474291

There are essentially no decent lifegain cards in your colors, so you'll have to go for artifacts.

You're not storming, but Aetherflux Reservoir should still be good in Mizzix.
Ivory Crane Netsuke and Ivory Tower if you always have a full hand.
Umezawa's Jitte is as versatile as it gets if you use creatures at all.
...Paradise Plume?

>>50478375
He can, but you need to use + abilities first. Voral can even double the loyalty counters you've put on Kraj.

>>50478263
>Of course being able to turn planeswalkers into artifact creatures with +1/+1 counters and using their abilities as kraj is also funny.
Fun fact, when Kraj was first printed the rule on loyalty abilities said that a planeswalker could only use them once per turn. Creatures could use loyalty abilities as many times as they liked.

>>50478420
That poem is actually pretty good.

>>50480663
Did EDH existed at the time of the rules change came up only when the format came about and found the loophole? Also there was something like that with Marath and a recent card, that's why Marath's abilities are errata'd to not be activated at X=0

>>50477486
and that RDW player's name was albert einstein

>got very upset at last session over something someone in my group did
>not sure if it's me being a baby or if i have a real reason to be upset

i'm probably too biased to tell the story in a way that is fair

>>50481691
then it's probably you being upset.

>>50481700
probably yeah

i haven't learned to be less of an emotional bitch but i have learned to recognize when i get that way. then i just try to isolate myself from other people until i'm not upset anymore because i know i'm just going to shit up everything for everyone as long as i'm feeling annoyed like that

for posterity the story goes like this

>kitchen table game
>put down scourge of the throne with haste
>have lethal on 2 players assuming i get 2 combats
>quickly glance to check who has the most life, attack the player that appears to have the most
>opponent: "i block with my indestructible guy"
>"ok, with my second combat, i-"
>"you don't have a second combat, you attacked the guy with less hp"
>"oh oops, i meant to attack the guy with the most life to get the second combat, can we just-"
>"ok you won't do anything else"
>he starts playing his combo stuff before i have passed the turn
>just scoop up my cards because he has lethal on me now and is comboing (and is playing his cards on my main phase 2)
>another player gives me shit for scooping in the middle of a game

like i don't mind losing, and i don't mind making dumb mistakes, but something about passing my turn for me is really, really fucking douchey. at least let me beat myself up for a bit and let me explore my options in case i have any

>>50480742
I think that Marath was errata'd before the deck was released and it was intentional sort of, because the text wouldn't have fit the card anymore. I'm not completely sure though.
What was the recent card?

>>50481887
Well, in that case saltiness is allowed in my opinion, since your group seem to consist of total faggots. No one has a right to rush through a turn that isn't their own, and even usually not on their turn either, if someone wants to do something on your turn.

>>50481972
Wait it's not even one card, from mtgsalvation:

>Without the errata:
>Marath by himself gives infinite etb ltb triggers.
>Marath + Cathar's Crusade = infinite infinitely big creatures
>Marath + Purphoros = infinite damage to all opponents
>Marath + Soul Warden/Essence Warden/Suture Priest = Infinite Life
>Marath + Goblin Sharpshooter = infinite damage to any number of creatures or players
>Marath + Any Anthem effect = infinite creatures

You just do X=0 and create 0/0 elementals and boom, loops for days

>>50481887
The only time you can rush through someones turn if it the early turns and people should not be taking more than 3 seconds to decide which freaking land to play.

>>50474042
Any card that can directly contribute to your loss is not worth playing.

It's completely possible that you get nothing good out of this and shouldn't be played. It's like saying Boompile is a good boardwipe. 50% of the time it is, the other 50% of the time it does nothing and you lose because you couldn't boardwipe when you needed it.

Cards like Chaos Warp are fine, they have an element of randomness but often have the same result: remove the most problem permanent on a board. The percentage of it doing nothing/worse is often so low it's worth playing.

Also these "so randumb" cards just make the game take so much longer to resolve and make a game much longer. You could play 2-3 games in the time it takes to finish one "randumb" game.

>>50482420
>It's like saying Boompile is a good boardwipe. 50% of the time it is, the other 50% of the time it does nothing and you lose because you couldn't boardwipe when you needed it.

but boompile is a good boardwipe

compare it to nevi disk:

>about to lose the game next turn to a crazy board state and you only have mana for a 4-5 mana board wipe
>cast nevi disk, 100% chance to lose on the spot because it comes into play tapped
>cast boompile, only 50% chance to lose on the spot

it doesn't go into every deck, but it does work well in colors that don't have access to good mass noncreature removal, like red and black

>>50482459
But that's a specific scenario. Compare to playing Disc early and keeping it primed and ready.

Realistically, just play Oblivion Stone. Hits Planeswalkers, comes into play untapped, and yeah it's 8 mana but I'd rather do that than wait a turn cycle to untap my disc.

It shouldn't go into any deck, Disc is at least reliable when it's untapped. You can also use Amulet of Vigor/Voltaic Key or any number of untap effects to make Disc a little better.

>>50482035
Well, he doesn't really do anything by itself if it allowed x=0, but even one tool more and it's GG. It would have been most busted of the whole set, even more broken than Ghave.

>>50482702
You at least need to pay 1 for Ghave, yeah it would've been busted af

>>50482035
That only works with R&D's Secret Lair.

Hey guys, how do I politic better?

In my last game some one was about to ult dovin baan and we would not be able to untap all but 2 permanents. I told the entire board we need to all attack dovin or we will all lose. No one wants to because they think i'm trying to trick them. I try to tell them that there will be no way they can win if they let dovin go off and that I'm not trying to trick them into letting me win. Still don't believe me. I threaten to board wipe if they don't attack. Now they all attack me.

Wtf went wrong?

>>50479712
Endrek sahr attrition

Join the club

>>50483393
Oh and they all lost to Dovin because obviously after they eliminated me.

>>50483410
Can't fix stupid.

>>50483393
Honestly, just sounds like your group has shit threat assesment. next time that happens, say the same thing, but don't get too worked up about it. Try to get the table to help you, and if they don't, let the guy combo off and win. Enough times of this and your friends will value your threat assessment and listen to you when you try to convince them, because you haven't been wrong.

>>50483393
Threatening isn't really a good strategy, it's usually met with more anger. They're just stupid people, so you can't reason with them. Just like the one anon said, the others should just see that you've been right and MAYBE they'll develop an ability to think.

>>50483393
I'll echo >>50483437 to a certain degree: These guys just sound kinda dumb. Explain what's going to happen, if they don't listen, then they pay for their mistake. Take note of who these people are. Build decks that aren't overtly threatening, and take out the people who have the good sense to see what's happening early. Then coast to an easy win while these guys durdle around.

Gahiji is great for players like this. Make anyone but you the path of least resistance, and make it easy for them to beat on each other. Point out how other players actions might negatively impact them, then enable their retaliation. Then, in the end, swoop in and mop up the left overs. It's your basic Sun Tzu shit.

>>50483393
This happens in a lot of the games in my group. There will be a threat at the beginning and I will be the only one to engage them while they draw-go into their combo pieces.

Then the guy I'm trying to hold back overwhelms the table. I don't want to go into "I told you so" territory, but it's getting infuriating.

>>50483393
People can give you advice all day about political strategies and deck choices but I'm left to wonder if you were just being irritating about it. Manner and likeability is everything.

>>50474042
I do love scrambleverse but personally I prefer warp world. Especially with a couple low creature decks in my playgroup, it can just fuck so many people over at once

Anybody have some Zurgo lists to post? Played it for the first time last night and had an alright time but he got removed a lot more than I would have liked and was stuck doing pretty much nothing when he was

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>in college
>in class
>before class waiting for teacher, someone (student) asks what hobbies we all have
>this is in WI,so hunting, fishing, football
>after a few people speak, I say "I play magic :the gathering"
>then it happened, I hear, behind me,
>"what format?"
>I turn around, no idea who said it
>"c-c-commander"
>"oh, I play commander too!"
>I couldnt believe my eyes, the person who plays is a small, round country girl wearing pink camo and blue jeans. The kind of person you expect to have relations with her horse.
>I asked, shocked, what decks she played, and, I shit you not, she replied
>"oh, mostly iona"

Have you ever been surprised by someone who doesn't "look" like an edh played that actually plays?

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>>50484199
>iona

>>50484199
We play EDH in our downtime at work and everyone acts surprised when they walk in on us playing "because we don't look nerdy like that."

>>50484199
One of my buddy's chad brothers bought the Kalemne deck to play with us for kicks. He'll play a few games on game night before he goes to a party or to watch a game.

>>50484199
>30 to 32 year old kitchen table group
>all decently fit and well-groomed these days, with jobs and significant others
You'll all make it, kids.

>>50484199
My friends older brother (~28) is a big, exmarine, gym fanatic who started playing with us when he came back from the military.

He plays Wydwen fairy tribal/voltron.

>>50484199
>Iona
I always figured the Devil lived somewhere in this godforsaken state.

>>50484199
I have the opposite kind of story:

>went to visit my brother in his college town
>the fucker decided to go get drunk without me, so I had to find something to do
>wander into the local game store
>see a whole bunch of people playing x-wing
>further in the back, almost hidden away, there's a relatively sizable chunk of people playing magic
>I walk over and ask what format
>"Oh, we're just playing some standard, there's a big tournament coming up in a bit"
>nope.jpeg
>start watching a few games out of boredom
>suddenly, turbo-autist mcfedora walks in, trench coat billowing in the stiff canadian breeze
>sweeps his eyes across the game store
>sees me, we make eye contact
>starts talking to the owners or whatever about various things
>"So I was playing my Darietti deck last night, and bitches couldn't even handle the heat I was throwing. I got kicked from the table after mycosynth lattice resolved. At least it's more reasonable than when I was playing Oloro."
>my ears perk up at the mention of commander-related jargon, I walk over to see what's going on
>explain that I'm new in town and I'm a big fan of commander
>the owners and the fedora look at me skeptically, particularly since I'm an in-shape moderately attractive guy, and the standard players are the stereotypical combination of morbidly obese and emaciated skeletons
>ask them if they want to play a game or two
>they all start laughing, but eventually agree
>"What decks do you run? Just to let you know we've got a pretty competitive meta here."

Fast forward an hour or so
>turboautist is sulking in his cards, he knows he cant win
>one of the owners playing Mizzix revs up a giant fireball at me because my Sek'Kuar has a pretty established boardstate
>fork.jpeg
>blow up turbo autist
>swing with a giant token boardstate and take out the owner
>after the game, they invite me over to drink some beers and play commander at their buddy's house
>go, have a great time playing commander and getting fucked up

Oh sweet spicy Moses, I think I'm in love.

>playing volrath
>late game, volrath is out, I have 9 swamps and a lashwrithe out
>equip volrath with lashwrithe
>throw down mutilate
>toss two fatties into the yard
>blow up some chump with an empty board
>eat two full turns of aggro, almost lose
>play whip of erebos next turn, reanimate tree of perdition
>tap some guy to 13 health, blow him up with volrath
>play victimize, sacing the tree for Reaper from the Abyss and Massacre Wurm
>the other guy just scoops

>>50484110
This is the one I play since I'm a poorfag who can't afford a deck that costs more than $200 dollars. It works pretty well, but the manabase kinda sucks
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-zurgo-equipment-edh/

>>50484847
So Volrath is basically
>Put fatties in the yard to boost Volrath
>Reanimate

Huh. Sounds fun and easy.

>>50484199
Fellow WI anon here. Yeah, I have. Two former co-workers of mine.

>Socially awkward guy who likes videogames (primarily sports and shooters), motorcycles and cars, hunting, and what not. Mentioned I spent one of my off-days playing Magic and he perked up. Found out he exclusively played EDH. Played with him a few times. He isn't very good, but it is always nice to have him around.
>Tattooed dude with a strong work ethic, who often butted heads with anyone who disagreed with him. Good guy all-around. Mentioned I picked up Magic one time and he mentioned him and his brother have been playing for almost 20 years. Played with them. We only played 60-card formats, which was all fine and dandy, but they had some odd house rules where everyone gets 10*X life, where X is a total number of players at the beginning of the game. Really fucked with my burn strategies. Also, you can always look at the top card of your library at any point (but you can't put it on the bottom---you just know what you're drawing into).

>>50484968
Your mana base doesn't look too bad. City of Brass and Mana Confluence are both less than $5, I'd recommend taking the guildgates out for those if you can. They both go a long way.

>>50484993
Not only is it fun and easy, it's pretty cheap to throw together, lets you use all the splashy black things you never get to, and dump trucks people who aren't ready. The general idea is to play Volrath as quickly as possible, toss fatties into the yard and reanimate them if you don't blow them up with Volrath right away. If Volrath dies, that means someone had to use removal on you, and you're in the clear to cast some of the giant black monsters that were hanging out in your hand.

The biggest trick is to survive the first few turns, and not to get chump blocked. I went the ramp route, so my game plan is to eat a bunch of damage at the very beginning with a utility boardstate, sculpt my hand into something managable, and throw down the ol' Volrath/Disentomb double down. Mutilate is one of my favorite cards in that deck, particularly with lashwrithe, because it makes sure Volrath can survive a very powerful boardwipe that gets around hexproof and indestructible.

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>playing my gruul timmy smash deck
>opponent casts jeleva on turn 4 and hits like 3 extra turn spells and a ton of other shit
>other opponents shitting their pants since they have no removal
>check own hand of 5 cards
>4 fatties and a land

how much spot removal do you put into your timmy-oriented decks? and how much utility stuff in general? i feel like i might have got too many big guys in my deck. i had no way to spot remove jeleva so i ended up having to one-shot him with a trampling malignus + xenagos that turn, which technically removed his commander from the game

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Alright, anyone want to rate my Athreos Deck? I've been using this for a while, and my opponents have always said it was an enjoyable challenge at the table.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/athreos-sacc-fun-stuff/

I'm also open to games on MTG Forge, Cockatrice, or Xmage.

Would you guys like a dedicated Server for /tg/ commander for one of the above programs?
I'm part of the Friendly Virtual Gaming Thread, and in our first thread we discussed the possibility of some kind of monthly casual tournament. Commander was suggested, as the majority in the format are pretty nice folks.

>>50485150
My group is full of Timmys that freak out when they can't remove someones threat but upset when I remove theirs.

My rule of thumb is to have at least three ways of removing: Creatures, Artifacts and Enchantments

That count doesn't include any board wipes and I don't green light a build without the removal.

>>50485182
cut some of the shittier cards like disentomb and sightless ghoul, add lands, add ramp, add draw

orzhov has great card advantage, great lifegain, great ways to pay with life and great recur stuff. take advantage of those

>>50485182
Fuck, I would love a place to play commander online with people who weren't shitters. I'd be super interested in that anon. Let me look at your deck for you, I ran Ayli not too long ago so I'll see if I can pull anything spicy from the vault for you.

>>50485182
>>50485216
also i can help you work with your deck on xmage if you want me to

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Manmies

add me

>>50485225
Ayli is actually in my deck. Felidar Sovereign is one of my secondary win-conditions.

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>>50477523
death to sheldon

>>50485297
So I took a look, and I have a couple of questions for you:

1) What does your deck do to win? I mean, I get that you want to loop your creatures, but it doesn't seem like you set it up in an efficient way. Am I missing something obvious? Are you hoping to do 3 damage every time something dies, plus the etb/ltb effect?

2) How strong do you want this deck to be? I build very strong decks, and if this deck is considered powerful in your meta, I don't really want to fuck with a good thing, if you know what I mean.

3) What's your budget? I personally build mid-budget decks, so I do know things that will boost the power level of your deck significantly, but the more you want to spend, the better it will turn out. I personally spend around $100-$200 per deck, and B/W is one of the more expensive colours to build, in terms of a reliable manabase.

>>50485373
This deck has about a 50/50 in my local meta. We're pretty casual. However, I love the way the combos work in this, and since I am attempting to create an online server for /tg/, something that could match this meta would be nice.

One suggestion was a monthly tournament on here hosted in two tiers: Casual and Competitive, in order to keep things fairly civil.

>>50484199
My girlfriend (former) was a tiny asian qt. Everyone at the LGS wrote her off for just having tagged along or been into Force of Will or some shit, but she had the meanest, nastiest Xenagod deck you've ever seen. We're talking Malignus and all sorts of damage doublers here.

>>50485373
Different anon here. Is Ayli fun? I have about $300 in accumulated store credit that i want to drop on a new, fairly strong deck, but i dont want to waste it on something boring or same-y like Brago.

>>50485516
Every deck I've seen with her is pretty boring and not super powerful. It's often a typical Grave Pact-style deck with some lifegain synergies. For $300 you can build a much more fun deck.

>>50485516
different anon from that one but ayli is pretty goodstuffy and casual as far as commanders go. she doesn't really do much besides provide you with a really good 2-mana body, a sac outlet and a way to exile nonlands in a somewhat magical christmasland scenario.

i'd say there are better options in orzhov. kinda depends what you want your 99 to be

>>50485537
I had a feeling it would be that way. Glad I asked. Anything that you can think of off the top of your head that is more interesting/fun?

>>50485573
In Orzhov specifically or just in general?

>>50485580
In general, really. I'm having a hard time finding a deck to build that seems fun, while also being not shit and is not Maelstrom Wanderer

>>50485573
Karlov is more build around and synergetic if you want to do Orzhov lifegain. No comment on how much better or stronger it is than Ayli though.

>>50485434
>since I am attempting to create an online server for /tg/, something that could match this meta would be nice.
Alrighty. If you want this tuned to a /edh/ level, you're going to need to change things a lot, but I'd rather you have fun doing it than to just slap a list in front of you. I'll break it down into sections of deck building theory for you:

>Meat and Potatoes
In general, when building a deck, divide your card pool into: card draw, ramp, things that win the game, and theme. You should run at least 10 things that draw you cards, prioritizing enchantments that stick around and keep drawing you cards, followed by things that draw multiple cards efficiently, followed by things that draw you cards in addition to what they normally do. For example, in your case Phyrexian Arena is better than Ambition's Cost because it sticks around for a while, which means you'll draw more cards, though both are quite good.

The same is true for ramp. Pick 10 things that will help you play your stuff faster. Priortize things that put lands onto the field untapped, followed by things like Sol Ring that are above curve, followed by things that fish lands tapped, followed by boring rocks like thran dynamo and worn powerstone, concluding with quality dorks, like birds of paradise, or palidium myr. The reason being, things that get you mana quickly offset the cost to cast it in the first place. This is why a t1 sol ring is so strong, you can use the 2 mana that's open for all sorts of things, whereas you can't really with worn powerstone or explosive vegetation.

Pick ten things that win the game for you and ten things that are thematically related. Both these tie into eachother and overlap quite a bit. Themes are things like blink, boardwipes, discard, counterspells, and reanimator which differentiate your deck.

That leaves you with 20 cards left, assuming 39 lands and 60 nonlands. In that chunk, you're going to want to cover anything that your theme didnt cover. (cont)

>>50485609
Randomly, here's a fun 5-color spellslinger deck I built a while ago based around Villainous Wealth.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/silver-spoon/

You can probably cut the Cascade creatures but it's pretty fun to Villainous Wealth for like 50+ on multiple people. Pretty solid control deck outside of that.

>>50485609
if you want to do stuff that ayli does but better, you can build monoblack with a recur theme. going from orzhov to monoblack, you basically trade your nonland permanent removal for crazy op monoblack staples like cabal coffers and gray merchant. my kokusho deck isn't competitively viable, but typically wrecks casual tables. my group doesn't allow combo autism though, which i'd imagine my deck does badly against since it doesn't interact well with non-creatures.

>>50485644
This includes removal, protection, trample, creatures to even out your curve, whatever it is that you didn't include. Usually, I reserve this spot for removal, because I build very creature heavy decks, but in general, this is the spot where you get to make your deck unique with whatever fun tech you have lying around.

>The Fluff
So, since the basics are covered, I'm going to shift gears a bit. In general, there are two philosophies on mana. The first is, you want your lands to come in untapped. This lets you play your cards on an efficient curve, which means every turn you're able to play something of increasing cost.

For example, playing Archfiend of Depravity t5 is an on curve play, because it's 5 mana on t5, and playing smothering abomination t4, with a read the bones t3 and a sign in blood t2 means you curved into your t5 play by having something to play every turn. In faster decks, playing on curve means dropping multiple spells as soon as possible instead of big spells. Now, if a land comes in tapped, you need to wait a turn to let it untap before you can play things on curve.

The other philosophy is manafixing. In order to play things in your deck, you need to have mana to cover the appropriate devotion. Things like Ghost Council have complicated devotion, which means you need lands that produce a specific colour of mana in order to cast it, and not simply a large selection of untapped lands. This is why shocks/duals/fetches are good, because they allow you to play a land in a colour you want, that also comes in untapped. Otherwise, you're waiting for a topdeck of the colour of land you need if you don't have enough in your hand.

While other people might tell you to run whatever you want, I usually suggest running half creatures, half non-creatures, keeping in mind that EDH is long, and something with a consistent pay-out is often better than something with a one time reward. (cont.)

>>50485644
>In general, when building a deck, divide your card pool into: card draw, ramp, things that win the game, and theme. You should run at least 10 things that draw you cards, prioritizing enchantments that stick around and keep drawing you cards, followed by things that draw multiple cards efficiently, followed by things that draw you cards in addition to what they normally do. For example, in your case Phyrexian Arena is better than Ambition's Cost because it sticks around for a while, which means you'll draw more cards, though both are quite good.

this is all generally correct but not all decks need draw. my xenagos deck never really runs out of gas even with very little draw. i usually either win or lose at around turn 6-9. my power-per-card and average cmc are just so high that gassing out is very rare.

but then again my monoblack still consistently runs out of gas even with 15 card draw cards lmao

>>50485822
The reason for this distinction, is that as a less experienced deck builder, you want to make sure you're able to defend yourself. By dividing the 60 cards you have to work with into creatures and non-creatures, you make sure that you're never in a position where you're setting up something cool, while someone pings you to death, or you have a hand full of powerful creatures, but nothing to enable them.

Now when actually building your deck, I suggest you organize the cards you want into piles based on their mana cost. This is so you can visually see where your curve is, and what amount of mana you need before you can start popping off your good stuff. It will also help even out your curve.

>Putting it Together
So now that you have a deck divided into card draw, ramp, game winners, theme, and you have your mana base sorted out, what next? You're going to want to playtest things against a variety of opponents. Everyone makes different mistakes deck building, for example I'm "that guy" to prioritize giant monsters over instants and sorceries, which means I run things like Asceticism or Nim Deathmantle to make sure that I'm not as vulnerable to removal. You can only really figure this out by playtesting, and once you know, slightly tweak your deck to make sure you can cover your bacon.

Now, after all that giant hullabaloo, I would be happy to recommend things to accomplish what you want, I just didn't want to build the deck for you without explaining why I'm doing what I'm doing.

>>50485894
this is all generally correct but not all decks need draw. my xenagos deck never really runs out of gas even with very little draw. i usually either win or lose at around turn 6-9. my power-per-card and average cmc are just so high that gassing out is very rare.
This depends entirely on your curve. If you have an aggressive curve, you're going to need more card draw, or better card draw. If you're playing Xenagos and durdling till t6, you can make do with less draw

Ok, So the way I was planning on hosting the server was through an an Amazon linux server. The free tier might be able to handle ~10-16 players at once, depending on the software used. We could expand to a higher-tier, but I'd require something like Paypal donations to keep it up, and I'm guessing none of you want that.

>>50485516
Sorry anon, I just wanted to type all that out before I answered you.

Don't build Ayli, particularly for 300 bucks. I found incredibly slow, boring and goodstuffy. Half the time you pull off some crazy shit and instantly win, like buried alive into victimize with felidar sovereign, the other half the time you durdle forever and never accomplish anything.

As both a Brago and Ayli player, I'd have to say that Brago is much more fun.

If you're looking for a fun deck that does basically the same thing, I'd suggest Mazirek. He's a surprise combo general in good colours for recursion and ramp. If that's not your style, sek'kuar is pretty fun to play as well, with basically the same set up, but access to damage doublers for the surprise combo finish.

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>>50485937
>>50485894
>>50485822
>>50485644

Thanks Guys. This is one of the better explanations on how to build a Commander that I've seen so far, so I capped it. Not sure if this is common sense stuff or what, but thanks.

>>50485937
>This depends entirely on your curve. If you have an aggressive curve, you're going to need more card draw, or better card draw

i do curve out, i just always curve out with 1-2 ramp spells at least, meaning i cast xenagos and the ensuing fatties very early. usually, i roll over the opposition with just 2 fatties, sometimes 1, sometimes 3 or even 4. they just come out so early that my group can't really deal with them a lot of time, and there isn't usually enough time for me to gas out either. if i happen to somehow have burn through the 7 + 5-7 cards i get over the course of the game naturally, then i will probably be mega fucked anyway and it's not really worth planning towards that scenario.

my deck is a bit lacking in low cmc stuff. i intend to put in fogs and instant hexproofing and stuff like that soon, so i may actually have an actual need for card draw eventually.

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how spicy is this tech?

>>50486155
seems like it would be so spicy that it'd stay in your hand for the entire game until you lose

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>>50486155

>>50486061
No problem anon, like I said, I wanted to help you out, and a lot of it isn't as intuitive as you'd think. I've just explained it a lot, whereas most people who make "primers" don't have the same deck building philosophy, and would rather show you 10 cool cards. Ya sure, that's helpful sometimes, but teach a man to fish and all that.

Take a look at what you have, I'm here more often than not, so I'll take a look at your deck and give you some pointers when you've fiddled around a bit. Like I said, if your deck is good in your meta, I don't want to start tweaking things and create some bad feelings in a fun game.

>>50486111
>i cast xenagos and the ensuing fatties very early
How fast are we talking? Xenagos was one of my favorite commanders, but where I personally had problems was surviving removal and reestablishing my board state. Sure, chumping people t5 or t6 with Xenagos is a common thing, until people start packing one mana enchantment exile, or go wide. He also paints a giant target on your back.

> i intend to put in fogs and instant hexproofing and stuff like that soon
Don't do this. I mean, hexproofing is good, and you should use stuff like alpha authority and asceticism, but fogs just aren't worth it in the end, particularly in a multiplayer game. If you hit a fog at the wrong time, you're in trouble, and not all damage is combat damage. I'd run things like Xanthid Swarm first, that prevent your opponents from casting spells while you're beating on them. Deflecting Palm is one of my least favorite cards.

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>>50486155
10/10 spice, I would run that. I'm pretty sure that'll stop hidestugu at instant speed, which is pretty spiffy.

>>50486204
6/10, I have one, but I've never actually used it. I also feel a little dirty looking through another man's library.

Now what about this?

>>50486155
>Target Spell
Situational Cards are a Medium Spice

>>50486219
And this is why I like /edh/:
>"Don't make your deck too good if it messes up good times with your friends."

Thanks again, and I'll be sure to post the decklist here every now and then after tweaking.

In the interest of shameless self advertising, we could use friendlies overe at >>50467642.
It's a sort of a cross between a Get Shit Done thread and a thread to help people on /tg/ play some games without killing their wallet or having to slog through Roll20 and Game Finder. Want to play some MTG right now? Here's the resources to do that.

>>50486266
>prevent all damage target SPELL would deal this turn

No it wouldn't

>>50486356
But creatures are spells? Fair enough, in that case I'd say 4/10 spice. Not quite hot enough, but situationally useful.

>>50486382
Creatures are spells on the stack.

They are permanents on the board.

>>50486382
creature spells are spells, but creatures aren't spells

>>50486382
creatures are only spells on the stack. as are instants and sorceries and artifacts and planeswalkers and enchantments.

>>50485125
Shit, I might have just found my next deck.

>>50474885
Wow. That's some fucking butthurt from this lil nigga

Alright, /edh/ loves gods, right? Reliable on the field, and some pretty fun effects to build a deck around.

So who's your favorite?

>>50486266
>>50486155
not sure if sarcastic, but hidetsugu will still hit cause spell=/=activated ability

>>50486517

Hard to pick a favorite cuz they are all so awesome

The only ones I don't like are pharika, Athreos, Phenax, and mogis

All the others are great

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>>50486565
I had a guy get pretty butthurt because I dared include a Gaia's blessing in my Nylea Mana-Elves Stompy deck.

>>50486639
Against his Phenax deck. Sorry.

>>50486639
Poor guy, in my meta 80% of the decks has an Eldrazi titan.

>>50486639

I'd be pretty butt hurt too, that card is pretty bad, but it happens to matchup against Phenax well

Eldrazi Titans are different because you play those without ever expecting to go up against a mill deck (lol mill)

>>50486476
Trust me, you won't regret it, but after the first few usages, you're going to draw a lot of heat, so be ready for it.

>>50486677
and the only decks that don't run eldrazi titans are those who abuse their graveyard ridiculously hard, or decks that can take advantage of the fact that mill is dead in the meta due to eldrazi titans.

>>50486517
athreos, ephara, Purph, xenagod, keranos are pretty much the only viable commanders. maybe kruphix, but if you're going UG, why gimp yourself with a 5 cost enchantment that only then enables later bigger plays? I guess if you're a super timmy?

>>50486204
>exiles my 99fu
fuck off asshole, it's not her fault she's not legendary

>>50486878
You don't think Erobos, or Thassa are viable?

>>50486878

>Athreos is better than Erebos, Thassa, karametra, kruphix, and Iroas

Get the fuck out

Also whether or not there is a better commander in that color combination isn't relevant to the question of whether a commander is viable or not

Athreos is barely viable anyway

>>50486995
thassa and erebos are good in the 99, but as commanders aren't very strong. Some metas they willo be viable, like if theres some problem life gain deck, or deck that no one can get any combat damage in on, sure.

>>50487055
athreos has has a few viable different builds. like i said above, erebos can be good in a meta with lifegain probs, but normally is meh. look for thassa above as well. kruphix explanation in original post, and the kruphix explanation applies to iroas as well, there are better options to head a deck in those colours. As for karametra, shes an even shittier kruphix.

>>50487225

I'm not seeing where you mentioned those other commanders above, was it before or after the guy asked about favorite gods?

Anyway I just can't take anybody seriously who thinks Athreos has "a few viable builds" but thinks kruphix and Karametra are shit

Your post makes no sense at all, Athreos is just about the worst BW commander, but kruphix and Iroas aren't viable because there are better ones I those colors?

This is all ignoring the fact that Erebos, kruphix, and Karametra are objectively strong decks, way beyond "viable"

The fact that you mention lifegain shows you have no idea what makes Erebos good

>>50486795
Can you post your Volrath decklist?

>>50487374
Sure man, I'll type it up. I'm still finessing a few things, but it should be pretty cost effective and generally neat. Give me a bit.

>>50487282
5/7 indestructible? too dependent on having the devotion up to go voltron route. card draw? sure card draw is good on a commander, but I'd prefer just using sidisi or something then?

>>50487396

Sidisi is fine but it's not the same as card draw

One tutor for 5 mana, and then you'd have to spend 7 to get another, is only as good as erebos's draw if you have a really important card to tutor like ad nauseam

For a general monoblack control deck, having an indestructible draw enchantment in the command zone is extremely powerful

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>>50478102
>Impyling blue is the problem and not the lack of spell interaction for other colors
Wizards wants to pretend the game is just about what's on the board, but it isnt.

>>50487509
so sidisi, tutor up erebos? sidisi is more flexible

>>50487537

That's a lot slower though, Erebos lets you start drawing cards earlier

And anyway the argument is not that Erebos is better than Sidisi, there are advantages to each, I think Sidisi has higher potential, the argument was that Erebos is viable

I really don't understand your inconsitency here, like why even compare just commanders in the same colors? Your argument is that a commander ISNT VIABLE because there's a better commander, so what then? Only Derevi is viable?

Athreos is pretty trash honestly, barely viable, and by your standards, it's not viable at all because old Teysa and Ayli and Karlov and Vish Kal are all better

>>50487527
damn now that i think of it, that's the exact problem i have with the color pie right now. on top of all the other retarded bullshit blue can do in EDH, they're the only color that can stop ETBs, game-winning spells and other stuff

>>50485972
Depending on the amount required/quality of the turnout I would be fine helping out with server costs. $5 a month or whatever just means that's a day I don't get to get fast food for a quick lunch. Not a big deal.

Personally I'd love to play regularly with my fellow fa/tg/uys; especially now that my semester at university is winding down.

>>50487624

That's not true though

White and colorless can stop etb effects (Hushwing and torpor orb)

Depending on the game winning spell, they can be stopped by other colors too, extra turns can be stopped by red and colorless (stranglehold, ugin's nexus), huge burn effects can be stopped by white damage prevention and player hexproof

If the big spell is something like tooth and nail for a combo, or rite of rep, then targeted removal in any color has the potential to stop that

If it's a big draw spell like sphinx's rev, white and colorless have ways of ruining that like Uba mask and spirit of the labyrinth

>tfw my playgroup enjoys planechase

I dunno what to think except that it's hella fun and that we think about putting money together to buy the anthology box. Everyone would get a deck and I would get the planes and phenomenons because I already have the one deck I care about, chaos reigns.

Would anthology be worth it? The dice look pretty sweet.

>>50487732
Look at all these cards that rarely have any cards printed like them, then look at how many counterspells exist compared to them.

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>>50476899

Bump here. Not expecting much, just curious.

>>50487807
To reiterate this point, notice how specific all these cards you selected and how blue has a spell that can deal with ALL of them. The lack of spell interaction amongst colors is what makes this a problem to begin with. Bad design all around.

>>50487374
Alright, here's my list. I've typed it up, though I'm using a few obvious things in other decks, like the eldrazi titans or cabal coffers. You can assemble it for under $100 as is, and it's pretty reliable in a mid-powered meta.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/you-cant-burry-me-im-alive/

>>50487818
The lack of qt snakegrills to come out of Tarkir and Theros is appalling. I can only hope that notEgypt is kinder to us.

>>50487863
This is true. The ability to interact with the stack is powerful, and I don't think that was fully understood when the "color pie" was conceived.

>>50487732
you're comparing janky/expensive silver bullets to 2-mana instant-speed spells that work on just about anything

like, are you going to slot out a counterspell for an ugin's nexus even if there's a narset player on the table? no you fucking won't

>>50487804
If your group likes it and you've got the scratch, I'd say yes. There's some good cards to get out of it, too.

>>50487933
Well, whenever we play multiplayer we play planechase since I own fifteen planar cards and we like it. It'd be a lot more fun if we had all 86 planes tho.

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>>50488084
Then go for it anon, it seems like you'd enjoy it.

someone post some mono-red burn

>>50485207
I would also say that Strip Mine is also a staple in nearly every deck and many others.
Smacking utility land or T1 tapland feels so good. Not as good as Missteping T1 Serra Ascendant or Sol Ring though.

>>50487927
>>50487925
>>50487863
>>50487807

The downside of counterspells is that you have to leave up mana and react, which can be a problem because it's easily hated out with popular stuff like grand Abolisher, price of glory, etc

I agree counterspells are better than a lot of those narrow hate cards, I was just responding to the claim that only blue can stop game winning spells and etb effects

Blue is the most powerful color in edh but it's not because of some pervasive design issues in mtg, edh just uses the full history of magic and blue was originally OP

The colors have been reasonably balanced for like 15 years now but we still use cards from before the balance was achieved

I take issue with the idea that every color needs counterspells just because blue was overpowered 20 years ago. Wizards has done a good job giving the other colors options for winning the game without needing counterspells

>>50485516
>>50485537
I run Ayli cleric tribal which is pretty fun, but it's not nearly a 300 deck, as one can probably guess from the theme.

>>50488300
I read wish they'd nut up and give white soft counters and let blue do hard counters and hard counter to specific things and take away soft counters. "You can't do this unless you pay a tax" just feels so white and it really sucks they never went anywhere with it. There's really no reason blue needs a monopoly on ALL types of counterspells.

>>50488300
>Wizards prints a decent counter
>Blue dominates standard
>Wizards doesnt print decent counters
>ETB creatures dominate standard
Cool color distribution wizards

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Deciding between Ashling the Pilgrim or Wort the Raidmother.

Among these two, which one is more suited to the EXPLOSION flavor, and is also fun?

>>50488907
Ashling, definitely.

>>50488907
Jaya Ballard

Is Toshiro Umezawa fun?

What are some brutal mill cards that hit fast and hit hard?
My deck is very heavy on lands and land tutors and I expect to ramp fast and sustainably, and there's also borderline group hug levels of spreading draw effects without punishment.
I have keening stone and traumatize.

I really wanted the spicy Soldevi Sentry tech, but apparently it works like Spiny Starfish does. God I hate when they oracle stuff like this that isn't even broken. Are there any other similar cards that jump to mind?

>>50489043
If you considered Soldevi Sentry, Forced Fruition might be a good start.

>>50489043
fateseal effects + tunnel vision

>>50484199
A guy I play with who has played since Alpha regularly wins cross-fit competitions in our area and he does personal trainer work on the side.

Magic hasn't been an "outsider" game for like the last 10 years, and people who started playing at the beginning are all 28~40 now and are regular people with jobs / wives / other interests / etc.

>>50485573
zada

>>50488316
I wanted to for a while, but i realize ayli is a much better commander for other things. But when I saw the new partners I just new i had to do cleric tribal. So now I'm wondering if I go ravos/tymna, ravos/tana, or ravos/kraum.

>>50488569

Super inaccurate but keep living in that fantasy land

>>50489570
>Implying

If I want to play a monoblack vampire tribal, is there any way to deal with board clears other than reanimation?

>>50489783
that card that just got reprinted in commander decks that gives your board undying

>>50488907
both. for ashling make a 99 land deck for the luls and add stuff later. run reiterate, reverberate effect cards so you can make four or so fireballs .

>>50489817
raidmother the stuff i mean

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okay i tried nu grenzo in forge and it seems that he's pretty weak, at least if you try to build him as a flying men.dck. or maybe it didn't work because i was playing against shitty ai with shitty random-gen decks that all go wide with 2 mana common 2/2s.

goading is kind of difficult at times and often there will be 2 other players you need to goad while you only have 1-3 creatures. exiling is kind of high-risk-low-reward most of the time and doesn't really help you win at all. it is kinda funny when you establish a wide board state with a "must attack" enchantment though.

anyway i'm gonna put off this deck until they port grenzo to xmage so i can test the deck against real people.

are there any other deck builds that are casual, fun to play and funny in terms of board state? my current problem is that all my decks are too powerful and aggro for my playgroup so i want a deck that really lets me stretch the game out while keeping things fun. i like what grenzo tried to do but it just didn't work that well for me.

>>50489802

That's not a real thing

>>50489802
are you perhaps thinking of Cauldron of Souls?

>>50489902
>>50489802
Cauldron of Souls. And it's persist, not undying.

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Who do you feel are the top 10 most powerful generals?

>Imo (in no particular order)
Derevi
Leovold
Maelstrom Wanderer
Prossh
Karador
Narset
Animar
Sharuum
Zur
Uril

>>50489902
>>50489916
>>50489916
>>50489920
yes that one

>>50489802
Doesn't seem very effective in long run. If my playgroup has a deck that's basically Zurgo and his merry band of wraths.dec I think making this deck might be a mistake. Kinda a shame, I wanted to make a Drana deck that's not goodstuff.

>>50489966

This is a pretty decent list, wouldn't change much

I think in multiplayer games, Uril is less powerful, and you can switch him with one of the elite monoblue decks, teferi walker or Azami, both could probably be on this top ten

Some other honorable mentions that could go this list are yisan and Edric, but they're both a little better in 1v1 than multiplayer

Before anybody suggest jeleva or scion of the UR dragon, I think this list is abot powerful generals, not powerful decks

Grixis storm and artifact stax and 5-color waste not combo are extremely powerful, more powerful in my opinion than Karador or sharuum, but they don't use the commander at all

>>50490209
>Before anybody suggest jeleva or scion of the UR dragon, I think this list is abot powerful generals, not powerful decks
I agree. Basically anything 5c can be top tier due to Storm or Hermit combos.

>>50489966
narset should be higher on that list