Shadow Run General

The martial arts in Run&Gun seems very underwhelming. Are any worth shit?

Anyone got advice for a new GM beyond doing Food Fight?

>>50393987
What happened at the end of Food Fight? What kind of Runners do you have?

>>50394178
We tried the trial box and food fight, so no runners of our own yet. I just want to make sure my bases are covered if we desire to keep playing it or I run on my own.

>>50393664
Several can be. It depends both on who you are and what you want to do.

Like the two good gun focused MAs can be good if you've got a good die pool and you either want to make others suck/take them out of the fight in ways other than damage because both can do that in different ways.

Got a troll with good unarmed damage? Go for something with kick attack to make your unarmed closer to being burst (sharkskin upgrade to some orthoskin for generally being thee round burst level) but focus the list based on other things you'd want to do.

>>50393664
Read the 6000 words on matrial arts in the pastedin. Has some good points on what's worth it and what isn't

My coppy of datatrails cuts pilot origins off.

"Each level of this quality grants"

.... What does it grant? And is it legal to take it multiple times?

Ok chummers, hit me with your best shot. I want to present Shadowrun to the group I GM, they go from neutral to enthusiastic about this kind of setting so I am not worried abotu them not liking it, but I need to know: what is the best all around edition to approach Shadowrun for the first time? I am talking the one that has the cleanest rules, the most complete content, and the most representative lore, the edition you'd point at when asked about Shadowrun form a first-timer.

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>>50393593
>Shadow Run

>>50394783
Edition war bait

>>50395402
Nope, actual question. I never played Shadowrun, iI want to start, therefor I asked the general. Take your memes back now.

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>>50394783
With the exception of some inexplicably missing Technomancer stuff, 5e is the cleanest and most complete from a mechanical standpoint, and gives the most reasonable (read:least punk) vision of the future from a lore standpoint.

To be honest, large bits of the setting are static enough between editions that older lore books are still useful for 5e and they have no incentive to release new versions. I would suggest starting with 5e and looking through the setting books from older editions if you want a "complete" view of the lore.

>>50394730
>...the bonus of a control rig of an equal rating. The AI is also capable of loading, converting, and using drone autosofts (AI-driven drones use the attributes, skills, and Matrix initiative of the AI). Note that AIs with this quality are only able to operate a particular type of drone or vehicle this way (e.g. aircraft, ground craft, watercraft); any other type of vehicle must be controlled remotely using the Control Device action.

>>50394783
Came to ask the same question. I've heard 2nd edition is good but I also heard 5e was best. I'd be playing with a group that's new to RPG's in general and has never played Shadowrun before, so what would /tg/ recommend?

>>50394579
Sorry, took a nap.

I decided early what kind of game I wanted to run and all of my work went to that concept. That made things marginally easier. My general advice would be to establish early what your players will respond well to and what you are comfortable doing. Be familiar with the art of handwavium and try to pinpoint the rules you expect to use frequently and put them aside.

Is a cyber hand worth it? Even if the character is not a rigger?

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>>50396533
Do you mean the Hand of God minmaxed shooty arm? Or just getting a cyberhand in general.

>>50396950
With the cyberhand attachment, found in Rigger 5.0. It's basically a detachable, controllable/autonomous hand.

Hand of god is basically max strength, agility and armor cyberarm correct?

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>>50397676
>Hand of god is basically max strength, agility and armor cyberarm correct?

Yes, though personally I've never seen the point in going all-in on STR; it's a handy way to shoot, it won't give you the ability to do anything worthwhile in melee. If you get cornered by a razorboy, you're dead whether you can punch with 3 STR or 6 STR.

I've never seen that Scuttler hand used at the table, but I'm hard pressed to think of a great way to use it. They say it's a good way to sneak a drone into an area, but in most such cases security is layered such that someone would notice your hand walking away, and in any case there's not a ton that a single hand can do on it's own. Personally I've always gotten along well with some Fly-Spies and other micro/mini drones; cheap enough that you can have several, and disposable enough that leaving one behind and booking it when corpsec gets suspicious doesn't cripple you (literally the case with the Scuttler).

>>50397836
I was considering the fact that it basically negates cuffs, and the fun you can have combining it with the grapple hand. detach, grab, and reel back.

>>50397836
Minor recoil compensation.

>>50396409
Great advice, this.

>>50397836
The Fist of God thing people talk about is a full arm with max customisation and max enhancement, or 9agi 9str in the case on a human, throw some spurs and that's a 12P AP -2 attack,that's bound to inflict some hurt. And then you do that to a Troll (used limb to save money and keep the availability legal) and you're inflicting 16P with a punch, the accuracy of which is your physical limit, in the case of the Troll assuming no investment in base str (let the Arm do the work) but one off max for reaction and body (5 & 9 respectively) that's 8, 9 if they put any points into their base strength because rounding. Seems like it would have a point to me.

Anyone know a GM looking to help me with a solo campaign? I sorta want to act out a character's prequel. Uuuuugh... Im sleepy... Hold let me type out the damn premise.

>>50399696
>Solo campaign
>Did you mean: Choose Your Own Adventure book?

For real, though, if you've got a character made, find an actual game to play him in, and see if the GM will do a prequel session or something, rather than getting someone to run an entire solo campaign for you. Solo shit, like that, which isn't being run by the same GM who would run an actual game(explicitly for purposes of planting plot hooks and seeds for shit that will happen in the game), might as well just be written out as backstory(with your own plot hooks scattered in, of course). Maybe roll some dice along the way to help you figure out how shit goes down, but that's about the extent you should go to, otherwise.

>>50399696
What >>50400362 said.
If you are trying to figure out something about how the character acts or make up some back story we can always help you brainstorm though.

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>>50401765
>3hours later
nigga he ded

>2077
>Not injecting long haul directly into your eyes

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So do all Night Ones look like Nightcrawler or what?

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>>50401962
>That filename

God i have this just now, got an whole group of new and more advanced players. Everybody got an week to create their char and hand them to me for the O.K..

At the beginnign i offered everybody help with chargen and quite a lot took the offer and where grateful. Also told the basics like 12+ dice to be good at something, legwork is everybodys job... etc. etc.

One Player ask me if he can be prototype transhuman from Ares.
>sure why not.

Goblinized while renraku extracted him and broke free with his new oni body.
>okay also cool.

Sends me his sheet two days late, the day after tomorrow the first session starts.

Got the Sheet and open it.

Oni with mostly mediocre physical attributes for an Gunslinger. oh and the mental stats... OH BOY

1 Willpower
1 Logic
2 Charisma (because oni can't go any lower)
Also 1 edge.

>Mate, wtf is this shit ? why do you want to play a character wit the survival chance of an matchstick in an forest fire ?

Jeah, this will be bore fun to play, also i abuse drugs to get an bonus for combat, and abuse them to qualify for "dead emotion:fear"

>mfw, no, you know what ? i'm way to nice for this shit, go to a forum, ask for advice, do what they tell you and come back.

Why are there people like this ?

>>50402509
Tfw have fellow runner decker with 4 logic who refused to hear my advice and abandon doc wagon plat for cerebral booster 2. He is a good guy and I want him to have fun but he is too afraid of his char dying.

>>50402995
He wasn't a mage was he? Because 4 logic works if you can boost it with spells. Hell, if you go that route it's better to have 4 logic than 5 because of the way that Enhance Attribute (Logic) works.

>>50402500
Well, they don't have tail and their hands/feet are pretty much human, but yeah basically.

>>50394707
Exactly where in the pastebin is it? I can't seem to find it.

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>>50399462
But melee is a shitty option unless you go full autist. Not only would you not have the dicepool to overcome the dodge of a razorboy, they'll have way more IP than you; you'll be cut to ribbons against someone who knows what they're doing.

The whole point of the cyberarm is to take a non-combat character and make them decent at fighting with only an investment of nuyen, and the best way to do that is to pump AGI in your arm and use a machine pistol (with a bit of armour and the extra box the replacement limb gives you as a nice side benefit). Going full 9 STR and getting spurs gives you a decent punch, but 'decent at melee' is not worth much; against a real melee opponent you're still dead, and against non-melee-focused enemies it's still better to shoot. >>50398534 is the best reason I can see about going hard on STR.

>>50403747
I'd just like to point out that extremely few deckers are also mages.

So, I asked people and they said if I wanted to play a scary AI overmind, try homebrewing it into a cyberpunk system.
So here I am. How do I play a scary AI overmind type of thing?

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>>50404875
1) Be GM
2) Run Renraku Arcology
3) never try to do it as a player, because Deus-tier AI are impossibly powerful

>>50404929
Man, I can only ever play these things as a gm. It is weird to me that supremely powerful wizard is a player role in many games and this isn't.
Oh well, a break from paranoia would be nice anyway.

>>50404977
AIs exist as a thing players can be in Shadowrun(see: Data Trails), I think he's just trying to say that being 'scary AI overmind' is likely to put you beyond the rest of the group.

>>50405007
Oh, that is nice. I dont mind a bit of a nerfed AI, since I know shadowrun wizards aren't dimension making supergods.

That was more of a pet peeve gripe.

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>>50405007
I'm putting a line between "AI as presented in Data Trails, which are basically just a program that moves from one device to another," and a real AI overmind like the classic SR AI such as Deus and Megara, which are immensely powerful distributed intelligences that rule the digital world and made a good attempt at blowing up meatspace.

>>50405046
Can I be some kind of cast off or fragment of the second one? Is that kosher?

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>>50405069
I don't know about kosher canonically.

The basic origins of PC AI are either "Program that kept learning (and was possibly affected by Resonance fuckery) until it became a metasapient AI, pseudo-human in their basic mindset", or "e-ghost, someone who was jacked into the Matrix and ended up having their mind-body connection severed, so now their mind floats around cyberspace."
There's also "protosapient AI that are basically feral programs" and "xenosapient AI which have thought patterns so far removed from what humanity understands that we can't communicate with them" neither of which are playable for obvious reasons

The big classic AI don't fit neatly into any of the categories. At one point Deus did basically break itself apart and hide in various bodies to go underground; you could say you're a fragment that never rejoined, if the GM allowed.

>>50404120
Melee is a perfectly good option if you're already in close quarters and have a tricked out strength/damage score, it should just never be your primary unless you have a weapon focus. Someone with a super-arm and a cyber-spur can - for example - charge down a flight of stairs to delivery a 12P stab while enjoying both Charging and Higher Ground.

That's really solid, when you're in a position to use it, and you can still be packing your Steyr TMP or whatever the fuck the rest of the time, when you're not.

>>50405167
Well, okay.
Maybe if Im luck I can be some kind of castoff terminator or something.
Otherwise, back to forevergm for me.

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>>50405215
I should clarify- The Network (the distributed fragments of Deus code) was a bunch of metahumans. Deus put itself into their minds subconsciously, turning these people into Nodes who would subliminally interact when they jacked into the Matrix.

Though on remembering, some of the Nodes realised what was up and went independent. I'd need to reread about Crash 2.0 to find out whether or not the independents got rolled up when Deus recompiled, but a GM could probably be persuaded into "My Node didn't get jacked into the Stock Exchange in time, and when he did jack-in post-Crash the data was released and ended up as a metasapient AI."

It's still not an AI overmind (you'd absolutely need the Pilot Origins quality if you want to have a decent drone body in meatspace, and even then AI are surprisingly shit at being riggers until and unless they do come up with some good errata) but it's something.

>>50405316
If drones suck, I guess I can just run hacker overwatch from a less combatative body.

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>>50405529
AI are worse at hacking than they are at rigging.

The issue is that AI are super-fragile; while a regular metahuman can have their device tank some damage before their own flesh is on the line (and they can go coldsim to keep it at Stun), AI almost always take damage to their Core Condition Monitor, and overflowing that track causes Essence loss. It means that AI are very easy to disrupt if they get into any sort of Matrix fight; someone in /srg/ once worked out an AI that basically serves as team mascot, using Leadership tests to boost other people's dicepools, as the most effective and safe way to do it.

You can go with a bunch of drones if you want, just always be ready to jump out of whatever body you're in back to the RCC (which for preference is in the chest cavity of the cybertroll) and hope the DM doesn't take Matrix combat seriously enough to try and trap you.

>>50405638
>AI is neither good at hacking or droning
>What they are really good at is cheerleading
Wat. That is baffling.

>>50405797

Shadowrun game design!

But basically the reason AI suck in the Matrix is the same reason Technomancers do: everything else in the Matrix is balanced around having a meat body separate from your icon, both in terms of "where your augs are coming from" and "what you're willing to risk."

AI/Technos die in real life if they die in the game, and they have no meatbody to use all those shiny augs that make you better at hacking (well, Technos do, but it's verboten because of the Magic/'Ware split), so they're just fucked.

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>>50405797
They truly are.

>>50405863
I don't understand why anyone thought this was good design.

Though, i guess if cheerleader is viable, I can play overwatch guiding my humans around to complete objectives. That is kind of a weak role though, especially if I can't do some hacking to get floorplans and guard comms.

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>>50405863
But at least technomancers have sprites they can use as diversions/meatshields/workhorses, and they can pull some nifty stuff with echoes and whatnot once the player wrap their heads around how technomancers work.

An AI hacker is like a street sam who refuses to wear armour.

>>50405906
Can't ais get armor somehow? A cyberdeck or something?

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>>50405936
They can use the Matrix monitor of whatever device they're on. The issue is that they need a really good device to be used to their full extent (an AI is limited to the devices it can be on based on depth), which is very expensive if you want a couple of them. Switching between devices is also two actions, and a third to reboot (assuming you already have enough marks on it). Finally, if the device you're on goes down, you lose Essence (unlike regular deckers, who take dumpshock but still end up getting free of the Matrix). Not to mention the troubles with AI programs.

tl;dr It's difficult to scuttle from one device to another in combat, each one is a flimsy shield, and if they break you get fucked up.

Though we should mention the 25-karma Exceptional Entity, for going a fair way at breaking things the other way.

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>>50405316
>>50405638
>get anthrodrones
>drones don't take stun damage
>put on armour jackets
>drones now ignore small arms

Be a wall of bodies

>>50406117
I would like being a wall of bodies. A designated goon squad is super useful in heists.
Is this rules viable?

>>50406143

Up until you get demolished in the matrix and your goonsquad starts shooting at your allies, maybe.

>>50406143
Yes, except you will probably need more than armor jackets to be immune to small arms. Stick-n-shock exist, as do tazers and bigger weapons than a semi-automatic pistol.

>>50406157
It shames me, but the ai might have to rely on a decker.
>>50406185
Can't you just give them the fancy cyber armor everyone loves so much?

>>50406217
Drone armor isn't intended to stack with worn armor according to the devs - but technically, by RAW, it does.

>>50406247
But what is the point of all that skin armor if armor layers don't stack?

>>50406185
>Stick-n-shock exist, as do tazers

Drones don't take stun damage.

>>50406247
Doesn't need to stack. Armour Jacket+Helmet is 14 armour, which is not shabby for 1100¥.

Corpsec will probably start carrying AP rounds the second run you try this, but it's still viable once.

>>50406259
Drones take electric damage as physical, not stun.

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>>50406217

Not really. If takes a lot of armor to be able to block a well-aimed high-end assault rifle.

>>50406259
>Drones don't take stun damage.
They always take Electric damage as Physical, though.

I know shadowrun is very money reliant, so I have to ask.
How long can you keep up the wall of bodies? How easily can you repair damaged and scrapped drones?

>>50406259
>Drones don't take stun damage.

They do take electricity damage, which both S-n-S and Tazers do.

>>50406256
>>50406259
>>50406247
Keep in mind that, unlike work metahumans, vehicles and drones roll to soak first, then compare the remaining damage to their armor, not the other way around. So they're actually extra tanky.

The game even goes so far as to suggest you ignore attacks outright if buying hits would be sufficient to downgrade it into stun, rather than rolling every time, with dice only being rolled if hit-buying weren't enough.

They're not as tanky as an ork with four cyberlimbs, but they're actually seriously tough as fuck once you start stacking on some armor.

So, has anyone tried playing Anarchy yet?

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>>50406293
>How easily can you repair damaged and scrapped drones?

Not easily, especially when you'll either need to buy a big workshop and some other drones to do the work yourself, or pay an NPC to rebuild (or convince someone to spend lots of karma getting Mechanic skills to a reasonable level). Rigging is a money pit at the best of times. The only thing AI have going for them is that they don't need to spend money on personal stuff like weapons and armour, specialty clothes, etc. (except for lifestyle) so they can go all in on constantly buying new devices/drones.

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>>50406293

Replacing busted drones isn't cheap, especially if they're kitted out anthrodrones.

It also depends on how much money your GM hands out for your average run. If they're going by the recommended core book rewards, you'll probably be losing money on runs where you lose a drone. But a lot of people agree that those rewards are really light on nuyen, so your mileage may vary.

>>50406293
Damaged drones are expensive to repair and drones that hit 0 HP need to be replaced entirely - there's no repairing therm once they're rendered entirely nonfunctional.

>>50406339
>>50406341
>>50406346
That sounds not ideal.
Oh well! Better start trying to make money on the side.
Can you make money with like, doctoring, or mechanics, or anything?

>>50406598
Run Faster has rules for having a commercial lifestyle. IIRC, you roll to reduce your lifestyle costs per month as an abstraction of your profits.

>>50406346
>>50406598
>Commlinks, cars, gear, and other goodies can all get trashed in the dangerous Sixth World but there is always someone with the skills and supplies to fx them back up. The same general costs apply: ten percent of the original cost per box of damage being repaired for the materials.

>The labor is the really expensive part. A skilled mechanic will charge (Skill Rating x number of hours for repair x 10) nuyen plus the cost of materials for the work.

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>>50406598
Either a Commercial Lifestyle or the Day Job negative quality are ways to represent a non-shadowrunning side hustle.

>>50406660
>>50406693
>>50406725
Well, if that helps deffray drone costs, I might just have a viable character that is close to what I want. Robot army is the best.
Too bad about the price and the hacking though. Is there anything besides deckers to help with not getting my troops hacked?

>>50407014

Just keeping them offline (or effectively so, such as via jammers), at which point you can't give them any commands and they're running on dogbrain.

>>50407111
Is dropping jamming for an instant to give orders viable? Or would that take too many actions?

>>50407014
Also consider the Dealer Connection (Drone) quality

>>50407181
That sounds valuable. Good idea.

>>50406693
Rigger 5.0 included new, explicit rules that once a vehicle or drone is trashed, it straight up cannot be repaired, only replaced, and new rules always trump old rules. It has its own separate repair rules too.

>>50407350
>Splat comes out for a thing
>Nerfs it
Blast and damn

>>50407403
If it makes you feel any better, they improved normal repairs by including rules for stealing a junker and chopping it for repair parts, and as a whole Rigger 5.0 is an overwhelming improvement.

>>50407489
Can you use those junker vehicles to fix drones?

>>50407403
>Nerfs an already weak role
Feels bad man

>>50406338
Check the archives

General questions regarding team organization - from the player's perspective.

Do you usually have on person on overwatch? One person coordinating teams? Everyone just rushing in together?

>>50407536
You can use junker drones to fix drones, as long as they're in the same approximate category.

>>50408367
>overwatch
That's what drones/vehicles are for. Overwatch/surveillance is the Rigger's actual role.

>>50404875
Play Eclipse Phase you goon.

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Is it just me, or are cfd plots vastly improved by using snatchers instead?
I want to run a plot centered around snatchers.
In my dreams, I can play one like random hajiid, but will settle for making players deal with it.

As someone looking into Shadowrun. Can someone explain to me what to major difference between the editions are, as my group wants to get into it after we finish our current game. Most are used to d20 systems.

>>50407181
Also looking to build a goon squad of drones as an AI charecter, so the topic at hand really intrests me, can you tell me what that quality does?

And any general advice on what my dice pool should be, and how I calculate pilot since AI don't have reaction?

Oh one final question I guess, is shooting gunnery or the normal weapon skills?

Sorry.

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So I've played some Shadowrun before. I played some 3E and quite a bit of 4E/Anniversary. My characters have thus far been only been Comabt or Matrix related. I have almost completly ignored the magic part of it, except when the GM kicked my ass with it and even then i only researched the fact that those shock rounds are good against ghosts.

i might play it with an other group in the near future and Im considering to play a mage or shamen.

Now, before I look into the rules I have this question to you fa/tg/uys:

How viable would a character be that is based on "The Order" aka the cult from the Silent Hill games?

The main question is how much I can fluff the spells, the spirits and the source of my powers. I know there exist all sorts of mages that base their powers on real life religions and most of the orders teachings sound almost pseudo-christian so i think it might be viable, right?

I know how lazy this thread might seem but I am not asking anybody to build character for me though I wouldn't refuse if somebody did. I just want to make sure a charater like this would even be possible before I start makingone only to hit a wall half way through.Also I'm completly drunk right now, I just got that idea and I can't focus on reading the rules until I sober up.

The edition will either be 4e or 5e, it's not decided yet.

>>50410126
>Cost: 3 Karma
>At some point in your wide travels and extra-legal activities, you met someone who has access to retail vehicles, and your connection means that you get vehicles at a discount. When selecting this quality, pick a class of vehicle (ground craft, watercraft, aircraft, or drones). Each time you purchase a vehicle of that class, you receive ten percent off the price. The discount is taken after the gamemaster makes adjustment to the price based on Availability. This quality may be taken up to four times, once for each class of vehicle.

It basically is a quality that's worth it if you're buying a really expensive vehicle, or are buying tons of drones in bulk. Not that it is different from having a contact that is a drone/vehicle dealer, of which you'll probably have as well.

>>50410126

> Vehicle Gunnery
>The rules and modifiers for ranged combat apply to vehicle-mounted weapons. Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems. A Complex Action is required for shooting weapons mounted on a vehicle in any firing mode.

>Drone Gunnery
>Drones attack using their Pilot + [Weapon] Targeting autosoft rating (p. 269), limited by Accuracy. Drones must have an autosoft appropriate to the weapon they are wielding in order to attack. They cannot fire a weapon untrained.

>Core, p 189

Gunnery if you directly control, Pilot if not.

>>50410545
Gunnery is for mounted weapons.

If you jump into a drone with "normal" arms and these arms hold a gun, you can use your appropriate skill to shoot said gun, eg Pistols.

>>50405900
You could play a face if you get an anthrodrone that's realistic enough.

>>50410428
There is a chaos tradition that represents you learning that shit yourself. It's completely up to you how you fluff it.

I personally envisioned a /k/ommando gun nut in the past who basically worshipped guns and believed that the murderkube lent him powers. His summoned spirits looked like military materiel or infantry, depending on the role.

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>paralyzed monkeys able to walk again using wireless dongles connecting their brain and spine

AHHHHHHHHH

I'm playing my first game of shadowrun tonight is there any simple advise or something simple I should know?

I'm going to be the mage in the group.

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Chummer 5.188 is now available. Changelog is stupid long per usual, so you can check what's changed at https://github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a/releases/tag/5.188.0.

>>50411470
Whups, trip.

>>50411475
I liked (you) better without the trip.

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>>50411618

>>50411631
Best girl though.

>>50411470
Great work as usual, but all those changes to the drones based on "it should have XY because fluff says so" shouldn't have made it into the data files.
IIRC you once said that RAW was the baseline for data entries.
Giving the Caduceus Drone Legs, however, is pure guesswork.

Small request:
Could you add an option to allow technicallly illegal mods to be added to guns?
Most groups i know have changed some of the terminally retarded slots of certain gun addons to more fitting ones (eg "electronic firing" from barrel to internal). Would be cool to give those people an easy option (=>checkbox in houserules tab) to incorporate this into chummer instead of having to fiddle with the xmls every release.

Anyways, keep up the great work!

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>>50411656
The legs and arms are based off earlier rulings in the drones section. The description for Walker says all walkers have legs, the description for Anthro says all anthros have arms and legs.

As far as the weapons go, the best way to manage that is through override xmls; you'd still have to monitor the files if I change stuff, but it means that you wouldn't have to overwrite your changes EVERY time I do an update.

I'll have a ponder about a way to implement ignoring slot restrictions.

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>>50411921
yekka, no one says this nearly enough. You are loved by the residents of this thread and board. Or at least by me.

>>50411960
>You are loved by the residents of this thread and board.
Not by me though. Filthy tripfag.

>>50411921
>empty magazine wells

WTF IS THIS SHIT?

>I'll have a ponder about a way to implement ignoring slot restrictions.

t.hanks

>>50411470
Hey, I've found a remarkably specific bug: bonding a Qi Focus (of any kind, as far I can tell) AFTER you've purchased the Combat Sense power makes it go wacky in various ways (removes or reduces the cost, gives you extra ranks in it, or both).

>>50412065
They're just schoolgirls

>>50411921
That flag on the helmet is on backwards. Stupid sluts.

>>50412088
>being underage excuses shit like this

No it fucking doesn't.
Wtf i hate animu now and the artist needs to be send to the gallows.

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>>50412065

Condition 4 there, hoss. Could be prepping to go on a patrol. Wouldn't want to pop one off in the FOB, would you? Girls 3 and 4 need to get with the fucking program and get some kneepads already.

>>50412172
Who cares if they're on FOB? Keep the finger off the trigger and nobody is going to ND.

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>>50412236

Could just be a regular field op then and their unit's too cheap to get ammo. Been there plenty of times.

>>50411470
When are we getting a chargen for smart phones?

>>50409995
>As someone looking into Shadowrun. Can someone explain to me what to major difference between the editions are, as my group wants to get into it after we finish our current game. Most are used to d20 systems.
1e is a practice edition that they mostly got wrong rather than right.

2e is the iconic edition - the vidyas are set in 2e, and it's the edition where Shadowrun really came into its own, conceptually.

3e is the oldest edition that people still actually play, and it's the one that introduced all kinds of crazy gonzo bullshit like SURGE.

4e is the edition that added wifi to Shadowrun, which makes it the clear dividing point between 'new' and 'old' editions. People who liked 2e and 3e say that 4e is where the setting went bad.

5e is the current edition, is more mechanically complete than 4e at this point, and is basically just 4e with smoothed-out mechanics, though as with all new editions of RPGs there will be some grognards who insist that it's ruined what used to be good.

>>50412669
But 4e was never good

>>50411422
If that was in Shadowrun, the player base would be shitting themselves about how it only works when you're running with your wireless on, and how that means your legs are now hackable, or some stupid bullshit.

"Why do I need the wireless on in order for this implant to work? Fucking game mechanic bullshit."

>>50412691
Stop

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>>50412072
That's... interesting. Yeah, something's super janky here. I'll look into it.
>>50412544
When someone wants to write one, I guess? I have no particular plans to support it at present and honestly have no real interest in developing it. I've had a couple of people mention they want to try doing it as a school project or whatever, but because we don't store complex values in the save file, any other project would have to reimplement our logic, which is a big clusterfuck. Most of the current UI is based entirely on winforms which can't be easily ported to other form factors.

tl;dr Chummer is complex enough that other applications couldn't read our file format easily so nobody's developing it, and Chummer lacks the ability to be easily ported to another form factor.

still tl;dr Probably never, or sometime after Shadowrun 6 comes out.
>>50411960
pls no

>>50412695
The whole Wireless Equipment thing feels stupid both coming and going, since most of the stuff having to be wireless to get its real bonus is nonsensical AND since actually hacking most of that stuff is pointless ("oh, uh, I guess I turn the wireless off then") and too difficult for the time in takes (compared to just, say, shooting them).

It causes people to get pissy about the idea of their gun getting hacked without even the payoff of that being a thing that happens with any regularity.

>>50412544

>>50412769
There is/was a mobile APP for Chummer 4ed, so it should be possible in theory.
However, i have no idea how much Chummer5 developed in regard to its complexity since then.

>>50412820
Addendum:
The app (Mobile Runner) is only able to READ .chum files, not create them.

>>50412769
>That's... interesting. Yeah, something's super janky here. I'll look into it.
If it helps, I played with it a little more and now I'm not totally sure if it's just Combat Sense or if that's just where I noticed it most.

For now, it looks like it can be fixed by just removing and re-adding all your Powers after bonding the Qi Focus.

>>50410885
You can play a face with the least realistic non-anthropomorphic drone. Won't be able to pass as human, but you can still be just as charismatic and convincing.

How do I export my chummer files as a PDF? I made my first character and would like to see how I did.

>>50413147

Print button in the top-left corner, chummer. You can either save it as HTML and use your web browser to turn that into a pdf, or download something like the CC pdf printer, which is a virtual printer device that saves pdfs.

Can I attack multiple targets with one drone swarm?

>>50413763
also, do you get more mod points for more downgrades or not? It says you get a single one, but it fails to mention if it's a single one for EACH downgrade, or a single one for ALL downgrades.

>>50412820
Well sure, but that's not a character creator. What people seem to want is something they can make a whole character in, or do all the stuff that Chummer normally does but on a mobile. A dice pool thing is easy as hell. Hell, if it were just that I could just expose the dicepool value to the save method and read directly from that.
>>50413763
You have to split the dice pool, but yes.
>>50413885
Per attribute point reduction, I believe.

>>50413947
>have to split dice pools
>do not get one attack per drone at rate of swarm
well fuck
that signficantly reduces my plans

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TELL ME YOUR FAVORITE WAYS YOU COCKED UP YOUR RUNS OR THEY OTHERWISE WENT SOUTH.

>BONUS POINTS FOR RUINING MILKRUNS

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>>50413666
Here I go, please be gentle.

I have 26 Karma remaining, I'd like to spend them on skills and attributes but don't exactly know what.

>>50414206
It hasn't happened yet, technically, but I sent my group into a Zero Zone last session to blow up the building. So far, it's been more of a milk run than intended, because the statline I grabbed for the rigger was absolute shit(I buffed him up between sessions, though, so he'll actually be a threat next session).

Also I plan on having a squad of Petrovski Security people show up in response to the group popping drones and generally going in very loud.
Should make for a fun run.

On that note, re: Petrovski dudes, would 4 dudes using the Police Patrols statblock from 5e core make for a good challenge to 4 runners(who have earned, but not spent, 12 karma and ~30k nuyen), or should I go for the Lieutenant block with all of them/maybe use a higher PR statblock but with a lower PR? For reference, they're still throwing out 12-14 dice for their focus, 8-10 for their secondaries, and 6 at most for other things

>>50414206
We just started playing Shadowun recently, and I managed to ruin our thus-far no-combat Food Fight run when my Totally Innocent Observation ("You know if your boys start shooting at us you'll be in the line of fire too, right?") transformed into hostilities via critical glitch.

It was ruled that the scene proceeded somewhat like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx8QOVsSMvI

We accomplished the mission and knowing us it probably would've turned into a shootout eventually anyway, but I'm pretty sure I'm never going to live that down.

>>50414370
Also, on their last run, a Vory dude hired them to hunt down and capture an Insect Shaman who escaped 'his cousins' care. They found her, and opened the door into her new lodge right after she finished summoning a Mother spirit.
The Adept proceeded to run back outside to the van, grab his rocket launcher, and fire an RPG right at the spirit's feet, while the Troll(who could only move 4 m/turn on a run) was ~6 meters away.

Miraculously, the troll survived, and everybody else was fine, including the Mother spirit, who kept fighting for a few more turns before they geeked it.

Is there any... judiciary system in shadowrun?
I want a crooked as fuck judge, but I am not sure if they are a thing.

>>50415750
No, there is no judiciary system, police are basically death squads who execute criminals in the street OF COURSE THERE'S A FUCKING JUSTICE SYSTEM FUCKWIT

>>50415829
It sort of seemed like police basically had freedom to kidnap and detain you indefinitely.
Especially if they kidnap you and take you to corp turf.
And those are the nice ones who want to take you alive.

>>50415977
>Especially if they kidnap you and take you to corp turf.
Big Corps are generally extraterritorial, so yes, they are essentially independent nations they can hold you indefinitely without trial. Local cops usually don't respond to corp problems, they have their own private security or even private armies.

>>50414370
Who's throwing those dice? The players or the NPCs? If the NPCs start assault rifle full-autoing your players with even 8 dice, the players will end up dead in short order.

>>50416104
>Local cops usually don't respond to corp problems
Local cops are a security corp unto themselves, hired by the nation or corp.

>>50416652
Sure, but they function like normal cops within whatever jurisdiction the person who hired them has.

>>50416686
For a certain definition of 'function', sure. First responders that almost never arrive in time, patrols that will blatantly ignore crimes before someone is shot (some places, not even then), etc.

Something like 90% corruption rates. (iirc lore says 1/10 good, 1/10 bad, 8/10 just trying to get by in a corrupt system)

>>50416827
>First responders that almost never arrive in time, patrols that will blatantly ignore crimes before someone is shot (some places, not even then), etc.
Where the hell did you get that idea? Like, most of the cop corps are awful in their own way, but none of them are awful in that specific way.

>>50416924
Official material - Sprawl Sites, neighbourhood response times, etc.

Just because people overlook or ignore it doesn't mean it's not there.

>>50414370
Do you PLAN on killing your party?
Because that sounds like planning on killing your party.

>>50416936
>Official material - Sprawl Sites, neighbourhood response times, etc

[citation needed]

Look up the different Levels of Area security as defined in Run Faster.
What you are writing about is true for Favela-style Slums, but nothing more.
Corps take crime with Sinners as victims VERY seriously, after all, those work for Corps and those Corps employ the rent-a-cops.

Crime between sinless people is a different story though ...

>>50416967
>doesn't know Sprawl Sites
No excuse.

>favela style slums
Nah, mate. They just get it worse.

>Corps take crime with Sinners as victims VERY seriously
Corps do, when it's publicised as such. The corps aren't the people on the street, though.

Beat cops will let you die because you're metres on the wrong side of extraterritorial lines in a city block.

>>50416104
If you are a legit SINner, they technically can't hold you legally since they have all sorts of extradition treaties out of necessity. If a corp employee fucks up outside of the corp, a national government wouldn't have to release that person to to corp otherwise. Problem is, you're probably SINless and thus have bo real rights, or the corp just won't say anything.

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>>50412691

>>50413082
Sure you could, but nobody is going to take you seriously. And I would personally give a huge penalty to rolls if you're trying to negotiate with someone who can't see your facial expressions.

>>50417820
I'd say lower their Social Limit rather than outright penalize them.

>>50417820
>nobody is going to take you seriously
Now you're just being silly.

>I would personally give a huge penalty to rolls if you're trying to negotiate with someone who can't see your facial expressions
Have you ever used a phone, anon?

>>50417546
>extradition
Nope, very explicitly one of the things that extraterritoriality was designed to avoid. That's why you need to go and kidnap people that corps want as employees, and why the corps don't have to give them back. Once you end up in corporate jurisdiction - SIN or not - they can do whatever the fuck they want to you with no (legal) consequences.

>>50417861

>Now you're just being silly.
You're telling me you would act the same towards a drone and an actual living person? Who's the silly one?

>Have you ever used a phone, anon?
Yes I have, and it's easier to convince someone face to face. In fact, most people prefer that.

>>50417951
Yeah, I'm going to go with a "no, that's retarded". No nation ever would take kindly to another nation holding their citizens against their will. It's the kind of things that sparks wars in the real world.

Therefore, the corps do it without telling anyone.

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So I was playing Anachronox earlier and now I want to play a hard-boiled detective, partnered with an e-ghost replication of his former assistant. Is there an e-ghost equivalent to the ally spirit?

>>50418010
Nah, they don't hide the fact that they acquired Dr. Suchandsuch from Ares, or whatever - that gets them a huge boost to their stock prices, which really matters for their shareholders. Or at least an increase in funding for their department. And with how the corporate contracts work, there's no pretending it was done through anything other than an extraction.

The way they make it work is by using shadowrunners - so that whether or not they had a direct hand in it was deniable - and then, once the person 'happens' to land in their custody, the Corporate Court enforces their right of extraterritoriality, meaning they don't have to release them if they don't want to.

Corps can do whatever the fuck they please within their corporate territory, and can't openly retaliate against each other without drawing the wrath of the Corporate Court. That's why they use shadowrunners - because they need just the bare minimum amount of plausible deniability when they steal a top researcher, or blow up a laboratory in retaliation, so that they can have the veneer of legality while waging a shadow war.

>>50418245
I have no clue but why isnt there a mentor sprite. So my hacker or techno can get bonuses from their dead teacher.

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>>50418245
>>50418708
There were the equivalent of mentor spirits for technomancers in a previous edition, they didn't make the jump to 5e yet

>>50417994
>Not trrating the guy driving the deathbot well
Stories of a man with no survival instinct

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>>50414093
That would be stupid broken, anon. Swarm is good enough as is.

>>50419569
Isn't it a straight downgrade to seperate drones in its current state?
Each individual drone gets their full attack bonuses, but in a swarm the gun they have only counts as a +1. Regardless of how good they were at shooting.

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>>50419647
a) actually trying to run a bunch of drones in combat is a fucking nightmare of bookkeeping

b) given how bad drone dice pools are, a swarm is a cheap way to bulk the pool, while also saving slots in your RCC because the drones don't need to rely on high-rating pilot programs to be decent.

>>50419731
It just seems like a bunch of shitty attempts would work better than turning each of those attempts into a plus one.

>>50416218
The players. The NPCs are all using stat blocks I found in the books, right now(Security Rigger and Wage Mage from one of the runs in Firing Line, I think, I remember the Rigger was originally named Rocker. Decker's using the security spider stats from Data Trails. Only adjustment I've made is giving the Rigger a better rig, so they actually stand as some sort of threat instead of just being annoying like they were last session.)

As far as actual NPC shooting dice pools go, right now the Rigger is rolling 8 dice to shoot, if he's Jumped In to a drone, and the main drones (now) have 6(7 if I buff them a bit like I planned to) dice on their Ingram Valiants, and the only player who's actually fought them yet is throwing 17 dice to avoid being shot.(Mystic Adept, Improved Initiative and Improved Reflexes)

>>50416944
I plan on having the Mitsuhama Zero Zone actually live up to its reputation instead of being a milk run. So far, none of the PCs have been damaged, so if it takes a security team responding realistically to someone attacking a facility, yeah, I'm gonna do that.

>>50418506
>Nah, they don't hide the fact that they acquired Dr. Suchandsuch from Ares, or whatever - that gets them a huge boost to their stock prices, which really matters for their shareholders. Or at least an increase in funding for their department. And with how the corporate contracts work, there's no pretending it was done through anything other than an extraction.

Is this the part where I'm supposed to suspend my disbelief? Because that's absolutely retarded.

You're welcome to run your games like that, but I'm going to strive for some realism in my games. Corps are esssentially mini-nations, and they have to play by the same rules as every other nation. If you abduct a foreign national, you'd better hide the fact or an international court is going to be involved. If that doesn't fix it, you're going to have open hostilities.

That is the exact reason why corps employ Shadowrunners. If they get caught, the corp has plausible deniability. If they succeed, nothing directly implicates the corp, and they can obscure having the asset at all.

Just because you have extraterritoriality doesn't mean you're getting out scot-free from every international crime you commit. You get to keep all your profits, and no other entity may directly influence corp policy, which are the main selling points of having extraterritoriality at all. However, you still have to play by international law.

Case in point: Snowden lives in Russia out of his own volition, and the slavs just give him a place to stay. Imagine the shitstorm if Russia had extracted the guy against his will. No, chummer, if you hold foreign nationals inside your borders, you had better hide the fact or face serious concequences.

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>>50418506
>they don't hide the fact that they acquired Dr. Suchandsuch from Ares

Don't they set up fake identities, keeping Suchandsuch underground for a couple months until it's appropriate for "Dr. Suchenheimer" to appear publicly? They don't actually fool anyone with knowledge of the situation, but like everything in corporate warfare it has a veneer of respectability.

>>50420067
Exactly. They use disposable assets, obscure the fact that they have the guy, and then keep him out of the spotlight or get him a facejob. He just happens to be somewhat similar to Dr. Suchandsuch Ares mysteriously lost.

That's the point. They don't just go "nyah nyah, you can't touch us!", because that would have actual repercussions.

>>50420038
>Just now realizing how retarded the lore is
I love the shadowrun setting, but it is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally dumb.

I'm fairly new to GMing and I want to run a game for friends. I have no Shadowrun experience aside from making a character for a game that died

What's the best edition to use?

>>50421199
1) don't be a faggot

2) read the fucking thread

3) lurk moar

4) you're thinking about writing a comment like a faggot would. Stop

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>>50420038
>Case in point: Snowden lives in Russia out of his own volition, and the slavs just give him a place to stay. Imagine the shitstorm if Russia had extracted the guy against his will. No, chummer, if you hold foreign nationals inside your borders, you had better hide the fact or face serious concequences.
If we weren't living under the Pax Americana, Russia extracting a guy against his will and holding him in Russia would be the kind of shit that you tolerate and quietly work to get revenge for, unless you have sufficient power to just go straight to war with the motherfuckers over it. You know, just like countries have been doing for centuries, and continue to do in Africa and South America. Sometimes you don't want to go to war with a motherfucker, even if you've been given the justification to.

Regardless, they're not going to go, "Haha, fuck you nerds, we kidnapped your guy," they'll sanitize it to actually help their share prices, and to keep from getting kicked in the dick by the Corporate Court. It'll be something like, "Ares' former head of R&D in Minnesota has recently come to work for Horizon, after leaving Ares by unknown means."

Of course, he left Ares in the custody of a bunch of Shadowrunners - everyone actually knows that - but they're deniable, so it's legal, which means the Corporate Court allows it. And Ares can't retaliate, in that scenario, without getting their own dicks punched off by the Corporate Court (and its non-Ares members) so they have to just grit their teeth and hire some shadowrunners to go spraypaint a giant cock on Horizon's HQ.

That's the canon way that Shadowrun works - even if you find it retarded. Corporations fuck with each other using the barest veneer of deniability to make power plays, boost profits, steal shit, and take revenge on each other. That's how shadowrunners get fucking paid.

If you don't like that, then cool, I guess? It is what it is, but feel free to change it in your own games.

>>50420038
You are also forgetting the biggest issue for a corp with even considering starting a war over someone.
Is it worth the cost?
It's much cheaper to hire expendable schmucks and have plausible deniability to steal your stolen asset back or just kill it rather then start a war.

How often do you go pink mohawks in the game and stick it to the man over doibgg work for mysterious Johnsons for cash? When do you put the PUNK back in cyber punk?

>>50421867
First of all, you don't understand what the 'punk' in 'cyberpunk' stands for - it has nothing to do with being graffiti-scrawling anarchists throwing a brick through the corps' windows.

Second of all, you can do both. As long as your Fixer/Johnsons are aware of what type of person you are, you can get given jobs which let you blow up a server farm or force three dozen zip-tied security guards to march a mile and a half to civilization wearing nothing but clown makeup.

If anything, being some kind of madcap pink mohawk make you more attractive to a Johnson - since you're extra deniable, then, clearly possessing your own ulterior motives rather than being some kind of paid, professional mercenary - though it does draw more attention back to yourself, which is quite dangerous in its own right.

>>50421697

You don't seem to understand the point. It really doesn't matter if the corporation can't be implicated in orchestrating the extraction, but if a sovereign nation or a corp sees that their citizen is being held by a foreign entity, they're going to ask kindly for them to return it.

It's their citizen. If that individual is being held somewhere, it's their business. That's why all corporations will always obscure and obfuscate the fact that they have the asset, or spin a tale that the individual joined the corporation of their own free will. The whole smoke and mirrors deal. Anything else would have consequences, both legal and otherwise.

Understand that extraterritoriality cuts both ways. Let's for a sake of argument say that a group of British citizens fail a run against Renraku, get caught, and now the corp is holding them. If Britain knows, they're going to ask Renraku kindly to transfer them to be tried in British courts. Conversely, a Renraku employee committing a crime on British soil would be returned to Renraku to be sentenced there. Yes, they don't HAVE to do it, but it's the only logical way the system would work.

What do you think would happen if Britain cut all treaties with Renraku? Any Renraku territory inside British soil would be completely cut off from the rest of the world. The corporate court can't complain about Britain policing their own airspace, after all.

No, chummer. Any corp working inside of any nation is going to have a lot of treaties with any nation they're in contact with, and extradition treaty would be one of them.

>>50421720

Yes, that's what usually happens. It's not the point, because this isn't just about corps trying to one-up each other. And besides, wars have started because of one man in the past like WW1.

>>50422209
>Yes, that's what usually happens. It's not the point, because this isn't just about corps trying to one-up each other. And besides, wars have started because of one man in the past like WW1.
Well those nations that started those wars did not have a board of directors, a court system dedicated to their affairs, or shareholders. Very different beasts.

>>50422316

And the corporate court doesn't rule over sovereign nations. Only corps.

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>>50422209
>If you don't like that, then cool, I guess? It is what it is, but feel free to change it in your own games.

>>50422336

Maybe I'm just trying to discuss the game setting with illiterates.

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>>50422209
>If Britain knows, they're going to ask Renraku kindly to transfer them to be tried in British courts. Conversely, a Renraku employee committing a crime on British soil would be returned to Renraku to be sentenced there. Yes, they don't HAVE to do it, but it's the only logical way the system would work.
That's not even the way it works in real life, you moron. If you go to the US and commit a crime, you're going to be tried and sentenced in the US judicial system, unless they decide to deport you.

Extradition is where you send someone to another country because they committed a crime in that other country. To use your example, extradition would be a bunch of British citizens committing a crime in a Renraku facility, escaping back to Britain, and then getting extradited back to Renraku by Britain to stand trial for their crimes against Renraku.

You don't even begin to know what you're talking about, which makes your condescending tone extra obnoxious, you dumb cunt.

>>50422397
This. The only time a prisoner gets transferred back to their country of origin instead of held in the country where they actually committed the crime is when someone wants something and is trading them for it. For example, the only time a foreign national guilty of committing a crime in Iran gets sent home is when Iran wants some concession (or even just money) from the homeland in question.

>>50422325
>And the corporate court doesn't rule over sovereign nations. Only corps.
The corp court only has power because the corps allow it to, and the corps only allow it to because it is a better system then fighting each other in the streets.
If you are talking about taking someone from a nation yes the corp court would have no say in it, but most big corps are stronger then nations. Or have become nations in their own right.

>>50422397
>Extradition is where you send someone to another country because they committed a crime in that other country. To use your example, extradition would be a bunch of British citizens committing a crime in a Renraku facility, escaping back to Britain, and then getting extradited back to Renraku by Britain to stand trial for their crimes against Renraku.

Yes and no. No, it doesn't mean just that, but yes, it does mean also that.

>Extradition is the official process whereby one country transfers a suspected or convicted criminal to another country. Between countries, extradition is normally regulated by treaties.

>>50422560
>Or have become nations in their own right.
Literally what AA and AAA means.

>>50422560

Corps are richer than nations, but nations are bigger, and by extension, more powerful.

Corps are also a lot more splintered.

>>50422566
>Extradition is the official process whereby one country transfers a suspected or convicted criminal to another country. Between countries, extradition is normally regulated by treaties.
There are actually real world examples of this.
A few years ago the United States tried to extradite a criminal from Mexico, but the Mexican government said no, the man had committed no crimes in Mexico and was a citizen of Mexico, so the US put a bounty on him and when he was brought to the US, Mexico cried foul and the US told them too bad.
Just because you have a treaty doesn't mean you will get shit, it is all in the very fine wording.

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Is this a notable step down for anyone else?

>>50422686
Yes.

>>50422686
Nope, I really enjoyed it on a level comparable to Dragonfall. The only serious step down was that there weren't any loyalty missions as good as Glory's. I think most people who were disappointed by it were disappointed because they expected it to be even better than Dragonfall.

>>50422686
Not really.

>>50422713
I found the characters less memorable then Dragonfall, in Dragonfall I wanted to bring all the npcs because I liked them all, in Hong Kong I liked the Russian dude and the Ghoul, I found the others pretty forgettable.
Also I found the flashback segments annoying because of the lack of context of what your options meant, it felt like blind picking.

>>50422684

I know. But it isn't just a case of "I'm here, too bad, deal with it". As powerful as the corps are, they are still tied by some treaties, and still have to play by international rules.

And sometimes, easing the relations by giving a bunch of foreign nationals back to a country is the smarter move than just holding them for punishment.

>>50422686

Yes. I especially hated the Auntie character.

>>50422771
I specifically went out of my way to make sure my character never willingly addressed her as "Auntie."

>>50422771
>As powerful as the corps are, they are still tied by some treaties, and still have to play by international rules.
Those rules are the Corporate Court. Which is why they need plausible deniability. Which is why they use deniable assets - shadowrunners - to do their shit.

Read:
>>50421697
>Regardless, they're not going to go, "Haha, fuck you nerds, we kidnapped your guy," they'll sanitize it to actually help their share prices, and to keep from getting kicked in the dick by the Corporate Court. It'll be something like, "Ares' former head of R&D in Minnesota has recently come to work for Horizon, after leaving Ares by unknown means."

They don't send a team of their own dudes to go kidnap people by the light of day, and then flaunt their actions against their competitors. They hire deniable mercenaries to commit crimes that - as long as they remain deniable - don't count as violations, then smugly posture at each other without being able to retaliate publicly.

This semi-public, deniable back-and-forth is how the protagonists of this game make their livings.

>>50422798

Same here. I remember her calling my character a little shit, which was really over the line.

I don't mind being forced to work for an unpleasant characters out of necessity, but that felt too pigeonholed for my tastes. I went with reinstating the SIN simply because staying in the shadows meant staying under her, which was not an option.

>>50417820
Wouldn't someone unable to see your facial expressions be at the disadvantage not you as they'd be less able to assess when you are lying?

>>50422837

Have you been missing the point the entire time? It's a lot easier for cops to play faul against each other, because they won't necessarily ever come into physical contact.

A corp and a nation is a different beast altogether. Extraterritorial as they are, corp soil is like an island in the sea. If that sea decides to cut them off, everybody is stranded.

Treaties are a necessity. This, by the way, is what started this discussion:

>>50415977

It's about the corp holding you, a shadowrunner. Not back-and-forth extracting of corp employees.

>>50422938
Yeah, but you also couldn't use your facial expressions to convince them that you AREN'T lying.

>>50422938
Yes, which is why you'd get a penalty. They're unable to read you, and thus can't confirm one way or the other whether you're telling the truth.

Try to persuade someone while wearing a mask. It's a psychological thing.

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>>50422946
>Have you been missing the point the entire time?
I can't see it past all the shifting goalposts.

>>50423008

How is it shifting goalposts if the that's what the original discussion is about?

>>50423008
I am annoyed that the lord has a crown while the king does not.

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>>50422938
>they'd be less able to assess when you are lying
People are really shitty at telling when someone is lying in general, actually. Tabletop RPGs do an extremely poor job of modeling this, but lying is super easy for humans, compared to detecting lies. The only way most people detect most lies is through inconsistencies in a story, or because they already know the truth and the lie is contradicting the truth.

Detecting lies based on someone's voice or facial expressions? That requires either interrogation training or a four-year-old's deception skills.

>>50414341

Sorry I took so long, chummer. I fell asleep and forgot about this thread. I admit to being fairly noob, but my thoughts:

- You might need to downgrade the mammal meat allergy to uncommon - remember that soy and krill are most of your meals. Talk to your GM about this
- Biocompatibility is kind of a waste if all you're getting is reflex recorder or datajack (respectively). Bioware's expensive, so if you're doing biocompat you should go in during chargen. Otherwise, drop it and put that karma towards other things.
- If the only weapon you have is the Guardian, invest in some different types of ammo to give yourself some more flexibility. Gel rounds are good at knocking squishies prone, SnS is good for both guards and bots, APDS is good to have against heavy armor. As well, consider investing in some extra clips and a silencer, given your infiltration subfocus.
- Get some paperwork: Fake SINs, license for your gun, concealed carry license, decking license, etc.

With 26 karma remaining, I'd suggest dumping a chunk of that into nuyen and buying yourself some fake licenses/SINs, and a few more spy toys: Chameleon suit, B&E gear, Lockpickers/maglock keys/sequencers/etc. If you're doing infiltrator stuff, having stuff like this on hand is very important.

Only other nitpick that I have is that you seem a bit spread out in terms of focus. I would probably tighten up to focus on either good social infiltration skills, good sneaky infiltration, or combat. Just right now your skill points/karma are spread a bit thin among those IMO.

Other than those gripes seems good enough to me. I don't get much of a vibe for the character's personality/background just reading the statblock, but I get that they're a WIP.

>>50423052
The flaw in your argument here is the in general. We're talking Shadowrunners here, exceptionally talented individuals for whom cloak and dagger skullduggery is their bread and butter, if anyone has the skill set to pick up only lying tells it's going to be a shadowrunner face.

>>50422998
>>50423004
Both good points point, but I feel that just makes it a nil sum game.

Personally, I'd be prepared to negotiate through a drone proxy, it's an entirely understandable deniability/paranoia based tactic, can't say I wouldn't be extra on the look out for a double cross though.

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>>50424058
The thing is that Matrix meets already exist for deniability/paranoia. As well, the Johnson is the one who is really looking for the security of anonymity- they're out there doing some dirty work with dirty people while trying to conceal where they're from or why the work needs to be done. It's rare that the shadowrunners are the ones who are more desperate to protect their identities, even in trenchcoat games.

If I'm a Johnson going to engage the criminals I intend to hire for some acts of international espionage and terrorism, and instead of flesh and blood I meet a throwaway drone chirping away about how everything is fine, I'm going to be put off.

>>50424058

You're trying to negotiate a business contract for yourself. It's an extremely bad practice if you go masked, or through a proxy, unless the employer insists.

There has to be some trust between the runners and the Jonhson, else the whole thing wouldn't work.

>>50424338
Most Johnsons are third parties letting the actual contractee keep their hands clean, actually. Shadowruns are, by their very nature, things of proxies and deniable assets.

>>50424360
That's how you run your game? Alright, but it's a little bit unorthodox.

The Johnson generally is an employee who has been given the power to negotiate for the details of the deal as well as evaluating the runners in person. It's a great deal of responsibility, and you can't trust just anyone with that.

Also, if you involve a third party between the runners and the corp, that's extra witnesses. If they wanted to remain completely anonymous, they'd go through a fixer.

>>50424462
>Alright, but it's a little bit unorthodox.
No, it's the default option. Johnsons are almost always proxies. A fixer and a Johnson serve as proxies of their respective clients, before the fixer then introduces the runners to the Johnson. The person who the Johnson works for never enters the equation, because they're the one form whom deniability is being provided.

>>50424540
Alright, I'm not going to argue, but you're full of shit and even the book notes that Mr. Johnson means 'anonymous employer or corporate agent'.

>>50424594
>I'm not going to argue
>but here's another argument
I agree with you, but you're a cunt. Either don't argue, or be straight up about it, you passive-aggressive little bitch.

>>50424612
But I like being passive-aggressive.

>>50424626
It does the opposite of make people agree with you. I almost wanted to disagree with you out of spite, despite the fact that you were obviously correct. Nobody likes a cunt unless they're fucking it.

>>50424736
Being on 4chens for long enough does that to you.

Also I like being in a shitflinging fest, it's very entertaining. You should try it sometime.

>>50424338
But you're also as a Johnson dealing with groups of fringe individuals who have a tendency to be a bit eccentric and transhumanist given the level of 'ware most of them are packing so I really doubt using a drone proxy is goign to rate more than a raised eyebrow from an experienced Johnson.
Now, the new guy who's had arranging a black book operation dropped on his desk, now he might be skittish of it, but if a player want's to make the telepresent character who only works through drones - and it's an old concept I've seen kicking around since at least 4e and was probably around in some form before that - and you constantly have Johnsons refuse to deal with them and penalise their every action beyond the inherent inefficiency already in that build, then sorry but you're a dickhead GM.

>>50417045
>Beat cops will let you die because you're metres on the wrong side of extraterritorial lines in a city block.
Well yeah. Because that's not in their jurisdiction. Like, it's literally another nation. Sorta like how the mounties ain't going to do dick if you get shot in the US.

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>>50422837
Other guy here.

After reading a lot of shadowrun novels I would like to say the following:

The corps fuck each other by using shadowrunners. Everybody important knows that, including the corporate court (CC). The only two rules are:

1: Don't get caught. Corp A may sue corp B if B was caught doing something illegal and the CC's judges will likely rule the case in favor of A. Those people pretend to be all smiles and professionalism despite knowing they are fucking one another.

2: No corp warfare or sabotage on important logistics and certain important things like communication and satellites. That gets in the way of making money and escalates conflicts too fast, too hard. Extreme cases like the Omega Order on Aztechnology excluded.

So as long as the shadowrunners, if they are caught, can't tell it was corp A and there is no evidence that corp A played foul, they get away. Corp B either suspects or knows that A nabbed their VIP, but they can't prove it, so have to let it go. At least, officially. Nobody is against hiring shadowrunners for retaliation.

Might even be the same team that nabbed the VIP in the first place. Not for revenge on the runners or to kill them. They were just the tool, and they showed their competence. The one that A wants revenge on is B, not the runners. Unless the runners were "unprofessional" in the way of killing many people, making a spectacle of the extraction, or otherwise causing corp A huge costs or loss of face.

Of course, corp B shouldn't flaunt the extraction in A's face. That is just sowing salt in wounds and spiteful.

And one thing the novels taught me is this: It doesn't pay money to hold grudges in the shadows.

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>>50425654
Your point about SR is true, but Mounties are a bad example. They do cross-border work all the time.

I want to play a racer.
I want to play the most riced out initial D racer possible.
How do I add "drifting through the entire stairway of the skyscraper" into team plans and get the group to go with it?

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How intense did things get during the bug wars in chicago?
I want to play a street samurai/rigger combo with a specialization in flamethrowers and heavy weaponry who is chock full of metahuman pride after fighting in the bug wars.

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>>50426528
The same way a sniper shadowrunner gets the team to accept their plan. They don't.

>>50426607
What if we get the sniper to ride on top of the car providing covering fire while it is drifting down the stairs?

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>>50426528
Step 1: Get Gecko Grip Tires
Step 2: Do it anyways, let them adapt

>>50426615
nah, current course is to let the car BE the sniper

>>50418245
Use a fucking contact.

>>50426635
I had someone do this once.
It made me smile on the inside.

>>50426624
>>50426528
Can we mount a gatling gun on this car while it is drifting down the stairs to shoot up literally every floor and every person in the building?

>>50426706
Biggest problem with that is that the minigun as stattd in 5e isn't very good, you'd probably just use a machinegun of some form.

>>50426770
goddamnit, why does this happen with everything in shadowrun?

>>50426706
Oh also a car small enough to fit in the stairwell might not have enough body for a heavy weapon mount, you might have to settle for an assault rifle or even an SMG.

>>50426793
Nevermind you can in fact fit a Heavy turret in a Jackrabbit, you just can't make it concealed.

The Italian Job, Shadowrun style is go.

>>50426846
Now I just need to calculate how many bullets it will expend per floor, and multiply that by floors of the building.

>>50426793
More to the point, there are no cars that have a low enough Body to accept gecko grip tires, so that whole idea's unworkable. The biggest vehicle that you can use for wall-crawling is a motorcycle.

As a side note, there are several motorcycles that make extremely adequate attack drones.

>>50426903
Well, you don't need gecko grip if you drop the car on from a copter then drift down.

>>50426919
>not having a motorcycle ride all around the outside of the building, using a mounted sniper rifle loaded with APDS to pick off people on every floor as it goes, zipping up and down the building in a spiral like Sonic or the Flash
What's even the point?

>>50426937
no, see, you ride down the central stairway of the building while drifting, and just lean on the fire button.
This will perforate every bit of the building all the way down, in addition to nearby buildings.

>>50426903
Not true, the Renault Fiat Funone has a body of 6 meaning you can Gecko Grip it, I'm in Chammer now seeing how workable it is.

>>50426903
Can you drop the body score at all with modding? I know you can't raise it at all but can it be lowered for extra mod points?

>>50426971
Nope.

>>50426967
>drifting a clown car down a stairwell
I love it.

>>50426981
wait the game has a clown car now?
How many people can you fit in it?
this is going to work so well for my clown based street sam.

>>50426981
What makes it really fun is adding and articulated arm and a an Enhanced winch so you can engage in grappling hook shenanigans with a car.

>>50427190
2, or 1 if they're a ork/troll. of course you can always add extra seating.

>>50427238
can... can I add more extra seating than there is actually space in the car?
Because I think I have to do that.

>>50427220
>articulated arm
>enhanced winch
>gecko grip wheels
Best clown car ever.

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>>50426981
Alright, I've taken an 8500 Nuyen car and turned it into a 70,000+ Nuyen monstrosity. Note this nowhere close to optimised but is simply dedicated to seeing if this was possible at all.

>>50427242
only if your GM doesn't catch you. alternatively invest in the contortionist skill.

>>50404116
Its the first thing that comes up when you google "6000 words on martial arts"

hoi chummers

making an adept for the first time (5e ruleset)

can someone give me a rundown on the important powers and mentor spirits, and attribute boost vs improved attribute

gonna be primarily a close-range shooty adept. human meta.

>>50428086
Improved Reflexes 3.
Combat Sense 1 or higher.

>>50425954
Oh. Better example then. If you get shot in canada, NYPD probably won't care.
>>50426562
it was more mad max than a war. The UCAS government decided instead of publicizing it as a war so they could win a nice big propaganda victory when they killed all the bugs, they'd just cover it up, wall the entirety of chicago off and call it a day. Basically the same thing as the more recent boston lockdown. Exactly the same thing, come to think of it.

>>50428225
>wall the entirety of chicago off
The Zone wasn't even close to the entirety of Chicago, just a couple dozen city blocks. The size of a small/medium neighborhood.

>>50428225
>I can't play a discharged EDF soldier
I am so angry right now

>>50428290
How does realistic features work? Do people just passively notice that something is a drone or do they have to be actively scrutinize again? And how realistic is, say, realistic features 2?

>>50428330
Read the book, it answers at least half the questions.

>>50428256
How'd they even cover it up? Wouldn't the people outside notice all the evil bee monsters flying over the walls and the evil ant monsters tunneling underneath them?
>>50428290
Ares eventually cleared the area out so you could be an ares dude I guess.

>>50428489
They threw up a bunch of wards too. It was (supposedly) contained, just very much not under actual control.

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Christ it's a shit to find these threads with the name all fucked up.

I need an opinion from you guys regarding standard mods from Rigger 5.0, particularly stuff like Tracked Vehicle on the Evo Falcon-EX. Should Chummer include things that are referenced in the statblock of an object, but otherwise have no mechanical rules or a statblock of their own?

>>50428833
make a little notes section for random little details?
Seems like it would be kind of a pointless thing you throw an intern at, though.

>>50428833
If/when they get stats, it'd be easier to edit the empty entries, no?

>>50428489
I think I WILL be an ares dude.
I will blow things up, yell "woo", and comment on how I can't wait to propose to my girl.

>>50428548
>They threw up a bunch of wards too.
Can you get wards to go underground? Cuz otherwise, the bugs could literally just tunnel out.

>>50429179

Are you going to spout naive idealism throughout every mission and die via airplane laser in the campaign's final encounter?

>>50429220
Yes to everything but the laser.
I don't know about that laser.
I'm still playing through it. Shit's longer than I thought!
I might also start chanting about how great we are unprompted.

>>50429212
>Can you get wards to go underground?
Yes.

>>50429212
They set off a nuke inside the wards.

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What kind of attributes besides reaction and charisma should I boost as a Rigger?

>>50429444
>rigger
>charisma
Willpower, chummer.

>>50429444
Logic is arguably more important than reaction, and I'm not sure why you think Cha is more useful to a rigger than to any other character.

>>50429444
Roughly ordered from most to least importance.

Intuition, for initiative.
Agility(and Gunnery as a skill) for shooting shit whenever you Jump In
Logic(+Electronic Warfare) for noise reduction.
Willpower, so you have a bigger Stun track(for when your Jumped In drone gets popped, while in cold-sim).
Body, so you have a bigger Physical track(as above, but for hot-sim).
Strength?? Idk, maybe you wanna carry a drone on your back, or something.

>>50429677
>Intuition, for initiative.
*and for matrix defense, if you don't have a Decker or the Decker doesn't have enough slots for all your drones.

>>50429691
Intuition & Willpower for matrix defence.

>>50429585
>>50429630
>>50429677
apologies, meant to say I was trying to make a rigger/face combo.

>>50428957
It's more that I'm having trouble finding consistency between the names. Like is Tracked Vehicle on the Evo Falcon-EX supposed to be the same as the Paladin's Tracked Platform? Or the Crashcart medicart's 'tracked'? If they're all the same thing, I can just set them all to use 'Primary Propulsion: Tracked' or something, but I don't then know how those rules would interact with the ACTUAL tracked setup.
>>50428942
Ha! I don't have interns, I have a collection of polydactyl cats that have mastered typing.

>>50429866
exactly my thoughts. So it's a job for interns that don't even exist.

>>50428130
Is there a build where power/cyberware/bioware/etc that raises initiative isn't a necessity? I feel like every character needs to get it or they are fucked.

>>50430240
Anyone who can shift their reliance on meatspace initiative to matrix initiative can get by with cold/hot sim.

>>50430408
See: Deckers, Riggers who rely on VR, Technomancers(especially with that Echo or whatever I heard about that lets them use matrix initiative in meatspace. I dunno if that's real or not.)

I guess Magicians, too, for Astral shit.

Intuition is basically THE stat to buy up if you plan on taking part in combat, though. No matter how you do it.

Is there any good compilation of service weapons and other equipment used by various militaries and/or agencies?

Also, if I take Brand Loyalty am I still allowed to refluff my equipment as being from a different manufacturer like suggested in the rulebook (e.g. rename my MCT-Nissan Rotodrone to a Cross-Aeryon SkyRanger), or is that considered poor form/cheese?

>>50424540
The johnson of 5th ed fucking food fight has a vested interest in the rescue of his daughter and would prefer actual people to get involved, than a drone with a CRT monitor where its head would be.

If I focus highly on making a super armored and tough troll, would that throw off the balance of a game in some way?
I sort of really want to play the unstoppable machine.

>>50430823
Depends on the group and the type of game, buddy. Probably not.

>>50430839
sweet.
I saw someone complaining about a troll with a too big sword earlier, and it got me worried about things like that.

>>50430823
>>50430842
They were only complaining because they had no idea how to deal with an armoured troll beyond "hit it with bigger things, harder".

>>50430240
Not really. You can go by with only a little meatspace boost, especially if your speciality is the Matrix. But doing more things each combat round than whatever is in front of you is the most powerful things of all in SR, beyond even hitting hard or being more armored than an APC.

Am starting up a campaign for a bunch of experienced players and one new player. Have gone through several shadowrun campaigns with most of these players.

How does my first game plan sound?

Players get called to a meet with the consigliere of the Seattle mafia. They need to pick up a gun shipment that's coming in soon, however the guns are coming in on a port belonging to the First Nation gang, who have backings from the Yakuza, so the mafia are unable to secure peaceful transport.

The team is to secure the weapons and transport it through First Nation turf and into the arms of the consigliere.

Planning to have some Halloweener bikers show up and try and secure the guns for themselves, escalating into a full out gang war between the Halloweeners and the First Nation, with the team caught in the crossfire.

If the team engages and escalates, I can have the Yakuza and Mafia throw themselves in the mix.

Am aiming to do two things in the first session:
>1 - instantly engage and excite the players. Throw them straight into the mix.
>2 - give the players the power to instantly effect and shape the world they are going to play in. The impact they could have on any of the gangs, the Halloweeners, the Mafia, the First Nation or the Yakuza is all very real and tangible.


Thoughts? Suggestions?

>>50430823
No, it won't. If you go for full soak, you can quite easily walk through assault rifle fire unscathed as a troll. But you'll be 'reduced' to the role of mobile cover for your team since you'll sacrifice so much of your chargen resources to get there you won't be able to do much else than stand in the way of the oponent's bullets and laugh.

There is one caveat, though: you will force your GM to throw mages at your team just to deal with you if he wants a challenging fight, and that can get out of hand quickly.

>>50431011
It is hard not to side with the halloweeners, honestly.
They're the most stylish of the lot.

As for actual run, are you planning on having a stationary gang war? If you want to make it more exciting, you could try having the gang members attack the players after they get it into a vehicle, which would lead to a roaming gunfight.

Though, go easy on their car, it's the first session.

>>50431043
Good point. I should get the magic resistance qualities.
I'm not going to get magical healing anyway with my like .05 essence.

>>50431052
desu, I'm mostly just looking forward to them attempting to dodge flaming molotovs thrown at their getaway vehicle from motorbiking halloweeners.

I don't want to wreck their car, just damage it a little bit to make them panic.

What could the First Nation throw at the players?

>>50431113
A giant eagle.
It tries to steal the van.

That sounds like the kind of thing a bunch of gang natives would do in shadowrun.

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>>50430823
Just be careful. If your group loves to infiltrate and go silent and you will stick out like a sore thumb. If that's the case, be sure to invest in some other skills outside of combat to contribute. If not, go ham.

>>50431145
We will see how much I have left over after becoming fucking invincible.
Medicine is my usual goto, but I doubt I'd be able to cram it in there with that low logic.

>>50430240
Honestly drugs can take care of a lot of your initiative problems and allow you to focus on other things.

>>50431136
That sounds pretty fucking good. Have a shaman summon an Air Spirit that takes the form of a Giant Eagle.

>>50419812
It would, but as a GM if you put me and my players through that particular hell you're gonna start losing drones fast.

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>>50431011
>hoi chummer, just need you to pick up "my" shipment of firearms that are mistakenly being delivered to a Yakuza proxy
This is where the face goes, "You aren't paying us nearly enough to steal guns from the Yakuza."

>>50431386
What are you worried about? Being made into a bunraku doll is an entirely honorable and fufilling profession and

>>50422686
>A whiny brat who wants to be a cop in fucking Shadowrun
>A liberal arts student getting by on being disgusting and quirky
>A decker managing to be even worse than blitz
>A ghoul that can walk around freely and everyone's okay with it
>Adrian Vauclair's old guy art, 2.0

Hong Kong was absolutely a step down.

>>50429270
I was talking about before that, back when the bug city thing started.

>>50431484
It's OK anon, show me on the doll where the game touched you.

>>50432843
When bug city started, the bugs were doing bug stuff - like consolidating in hives.

>>50433619
Sure, but the bug city sourcebook specifically mentions they're going out on the streets and eating folks. And sure, there's walls and wards to keep them in, but like, at the very least people outside would see the various flying insect spirits flying about.

>>50433835
They cut off Chicago. Not the buildings and walls. City. Given up as bug chow. Then nuked.

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>>50428489
>How'd they even cover it up?
The thing you're not really getting is that bugs are SMART. They know full well that showing their trueform hosts off is going to provoke a powerful response, so their early behaviour is to build a hive, using hosts that can still pass for human to support their 'recruitment' efforts. Sure, the people of Chicago eventually realised there were nests of bugs inside their city, but by that point the UCAS military had suborned all the news stations, declared a military quarantine and severed the Chicago grid from the Matrix at large.

>>50433878
>They cut off Chicago. Not the buildings and walls. City. Given up as bug chow. Then nuked.
Again, no they didn't. Most of Chicago's population was outside the Zone and still (trying) to live relatively normal lives, and the wards kept the nuke contained to just the Zone, not spilling out into Chicago proper.

Right now, one of Chicago's big problems is that, now that the wards are down, the type of badass psychos able to survive for several years inside of a bug-filled, irradiated hellscape are spilling back out into Chicago proper, starting zoner gangs and becoming ultra-badass mercenaries.

http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2016/11/mayan-elders-go-to-standing-rock-to.html

IT'S HAPPENING

>>50430240
>Is there a build where power/cyberware/bioware/etc that raises initiative isn't a necessity?
Yes. Characters who don't intend to participate in combat.

Initiative is to combat what the Magic stat is to magery and Device Rating is to a huge fucking nerd.

If you intend to have zero combat participation, you don't need it. If you want to participate in combat, you do.

That nerd was asking about what powers to buy for a combat character, so he needs Improved Reflexes.

>>50430823
>If I focus highly on making a super armored and tough troll, would that throw off the balance of a game in some way?
Note that you'll probably be better off as an Ork. Their Body isn't quite as high, but is still very high, they have better Agility and such, and they're much cheaper priority-wise. Trolls have the best Strength and Body, but for the Priority cost and the hit to other important attributes, you're almost always better off going with something else.

Reading through Court of Shadows and is the whole Fae plane designed to jerk off Adepts, Mages and Faces?

>>50434185
>is a magical faerie court realm a good place to be magic or social?
Some people say there's no such thing as a stupid question. A question you already know the answer to, though, is a stupid question.

>>50434111
>If you intend to have zero combat participation...
...you either play with the most paranoid trenchcoat players in games 99.999% of people will never even read about, or you are going to be a weak link on your team.

>Due to a certain string of events, end up having to escape the Sioux nation with wildcats on our tail
>Ex filtrate via C-130 and an old stolen GMC Banshee
>Manage to fight off the scrambled air force long enough to escape (a few helos, some SAMs, and a fighter jet)
>During the escape a fucking Wildcat bursts out of the floor of the C-130
>Nigga was tacticool enough to sneak on board without us noticing after the rest of his squad got obliterated by a rocket run from the Banshee
>Two street sams end up taking him down, just stun damage though
>Sweet, we've got a specops operator hostage
>One of the street sams asks me to clean his armour (I'm the decker) so he can enjoy that sweet sweet milspec
>Agree, get the rigger to assist me with it at their crib
>Rolling 11 dice to reset ownership
>Glitch on the first test
>"If there is a glitch on this test, then the device sends a report to the authorities."
>tfw Nativey Seals are going to raid the riggers hideout and it's all my fault

>>50434353
I've played games with Face/Infiltrators and Deckers who had no combat participation ability, and a Shaman who just hid behind spirits. It doesn't go two badly when you have at least two party members who are good enough at fighting to protect the rest.

>>50434353
"Wanting to get more than one pass" in combat isn't paranoid. That's just like, the default. You can get it different ways (there aren't many mages using move by wire) but when you get down to it all combat players are expected to get more than one pass.

>>50435310
Read the post again.

>>50435309
Sure. If you aren't going to participate in combat, you don't need multiple passes. One character I was considering playing was a blind technomancer who "saw" via an ecolocation implant (which as far as I know, doesn't do anything about the huge penalty the blind quality gives you to shooting folks). He had like, 4+1d6 init and that was OK even if he had multiple passes he wouldn't be able to contribute anyway

>>50435325
Oh. I see. Sorry. Anyway, as a rebuttal to your actual point, it's totally possible to make a character who doesn't participate in combat directly but isn't a weak link. The classic example is a mage who has spirits do all the combat for him, because only one of them has engulf, and it isn't the mage. The mage himself isn't doing anything other than hiding behind cover and waiting for all the scary noises to go away, but he's not a weak link.

NEW THREAD
>>50436486
>>50436486

>>50433203
When it kept railroading my character's personality and backstory.