/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

FIRST POST NIGGA

Always mix the splats. Just use stats appropriate to the major race in your game and you'll be fine.

I used Chaos Factor once, but Haight was just background, unimportant... it was Shaitan that was the real star.

Is Beast still total shit?
I heard some people claim that they improved it a lot.

>>50347483
It went from unrepentant monsters doing whatever they want (with gay and trans undertones) to directionless abuse-justification (with gay and trans undertones).

>>50347507
Beast is a fundamentally bad concept that probably never would have worked, since it boils down to "vampires, but with 'fear' and spirit animals." But if it was to be made good, I still advocate for Beasts being looked at primarily as objects of fear rather than generators of it, and Heroes as those who feed on fear that mundanes have for the Other; as such, they gravitate to being xenophobic demagogues and rabble-rousers to consume the fear of their flocks.

>>50347483
No.
But like Geist it's also got nothing to it.

>>50347648
>"vampires, but with 'fear' and spirit animals."
Beast as a concept is fine, and they *are* objects of fear. You could even argue that Heroes are like you suggest.
Not to say Beast doesn't feel like it's cobbled together from ideas taken from other splats. Mummy felt the same way, though. I'm not sure if Deviant will feel that way...

Feeding on emotions? Changeling
Dream realm? Changeling *and* Mage
Monster I am lest a monster I become? Vampire
Headbuddy? Geist
I'd say it doesn't take much from Werewolf, but you could argue the Broods are kind of like Packs.

>>50347709

Beast is a really flimsy concept that, like the weaker splats, needed a little but more time in the conception phase to cook. There's nothing wrong with other splats picking up aspects and themes from other splats, especially for a crossover game, but it all falls apart without a strong spine. That's something no sourcebook is ever going to provide.

>>50347776
I still have hope that a good sourcebook can make Beast work.

>>50347825

It won't. These games need an inner hook to them that can only be in a corebook. Sourcebooks can expand or explain that hook more clearly, but they cannot add one in.

Much like Geist, you'd need to wait a few years for a new edition if you want a Beast that works.

It is impossible for me to take Beast seriously when they are more similar to otherkin that feed on evil deeds they often cause or commit themselces than mythical monsters.

>>50347873
Geist's problem isn't that a sourcebook couldn't fix it, it's that it didn't get any. Plenty of people have felt games got new life through sourcebooks.

>>50347893
So? You could argue the same about Changeling, and I don't just mean Dreaming.

>>50347960

And in those cases what the sourcebook did was already in the core, just badly explained or not fleshed out enough. Geist would have been a better line with at least two more strong sourcebook, because unlike Beast, it has a strong hook. That's why it persisted long enough for people to want a 2e so badly.

Beast doesn't have a good hook. It has a good sketch of a hook, and it has some things to do around that, but that's not enough, and no sourcebook is going to fix that critical flaw. Much like how Geist got the most limited line possible and we had to wait for a 2e for one that works better, we have to wait out the rest of the Beast line, and see if a new edition of Beast will learn from the past edition's mistakes.

>>50348119
I feel that if anything Beast's problem is that it has so many things it wants to be without actually going into enough focus with any of them. A sourcebook could help there.

>>50347960
Well, Changeling was a game about being kidnapped by the fey, which it accomplishes well enough, while I don't think Beast is really good for being a primordial monster.

>>50348153

No, not even there. Most of the sourcebooks set out for it will only exacerbate that problem, without actually giving it the strong hook it needs. Building a Legend will probably make the game easier to run, but I don't think it will fix the game.

So. There is a discussion on the forums. I'd like to bring it here.
Would you buy pdfs with individual bloodlines/legacies/lodges/entitlements, provided they were cheap?

>>50348437
>DLC skins
Jokes aside, if I weren't poor, I'd buy a standard six page Bloodline write up for a buck. Mix and match build-your-own-book stuff for PoD would also be nice, though I don't think Drivethru can handle that.

>>50346898
The CCCP was extremely left wing. Lenin thought the only way to achieve something akin to communism was to have the state enforce it (Which is in fact the only way to even be remotely communist). It was jingoistic because of the idea of a people's army, it had extremely socialist policies, etc.

You say left wing things are about Freedom, yet the achieve left wing ideals, like true equality, no classes, etc, you have to have a repressive government, a-la the Soviet Union. That's literally how the political Left-Right scale works, the further you stray from Center, the more repressive the state.

>>50348168
Do you feel the concept of Leviathan might be better for that?

>>50348680
Economically, it was left-wing. Socially, it was pretty conservative, though admittedly Stalin made it moreso.

>>50347428
Mixing splats is okay only if by mixing splats you mean different splats in single game. Otherwise it's absolutely haram.

>>50347483
Beast RMC and Beast Conquering Heroes should come out soon, so we have to wait if anything can be salvaged from the game, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that.

>>50348791
No, Socially it was left wing as well. Even Stalin with his National Bolshevism was pretty damn left wing. They had women ENCOURAGED to be in the military, and a state policy of forced equality. Sure, the people could be conservative, but in any given country you have everyone all over the political spectrum.

And before you go on about how Homosexuality was shunned (It was NOT in fact illegal, though), here's a little quote for you explaining why:

"Soviet legislation does not recognize so-called crimes against morality. Our laws proceed from the principle of protection of society and therefore countenance punishment only in those instances when juveniles and minors are the objects of homosexual interest ... while recognizing the incorrectness of homosexual development ... our society combines prophylactic and other therapeutic measures with all the necessary conditions for making the conflicts that afflict homosexuals as painless as possible and for resolving their typical estrangement from society within the collective"

—Sereisky, Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 1930, p. 593

That's pretty fucking left wing.

Newsflash: something can be left-wing and authoritarian at the same time, because authoritarianism is its own axis of political catagorization. It happens a lot on the right-wing. One can even be a centrist and lean authoritarian. People can take any policy and torture it to whatever wing they want. Politics is complicated.

>>50347428

No splat touching, please. Hill's is a decent enough attempt but it's a design space I'd rather see avoided.

>>50348891
If I get banned for political discussion again, I dearly hope you do too.

>No, Socially it was left wing as well. Even Stalin with his National Bolshevism was pretty damn left wing. They had women ENCOURAGED to be in the military, and a state policy of forced equality. Sure, the people could be conservative, but in any given country you have everyone all over the political spectrum.
IIRC, the part with women being encouraged to join the military came after the initial Axis curbstomping, and it's not like any of them achieved particularly high rank (though I'm murkier on whether or not it was truly a realistic possibility, I admit).

>And before you go on about how Homosexuality was shunned (It was NOT in fact illegal, though), here's a little quote for you explaining why:
Article 121 in 1933 made male homosexuality illegal, actually.

>"Soviet legislation does not recognize so-called crimes against morality. Our laws proceed from the principle of protection of society and therefore countenance punishment only in those instances when juveniles and minors are the objects of homosexual interest ... while recognizing the incorrectness of homosexual development ... our society combines prophylactic and other therapeutic measures with all the necessary conditions for making the conflicts that afflict homosexuals as painless as possible and for resolving their typical estrangement from society within the collective"
Relatively left-wing for the time, maybe, but there's still stuff like "the incorrectness of homosexual development," so I wouldn't call it leftist in an objective sense.

>>50348791
>The government owning everything is left wing
Socialism is literally defined by the working class controlling the means of production.
>>50348984
It's an axis of political categorization on politicalcompass.org.
http://www.mcspotlight.org/cgi-bin/zv/debate/anything/messages/5311.html
Stalin also just... wasn't Socialist. The workers were not in charge.
>>50348891
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia#LGBT_history_under_Stalin:_1933.E2.80.931953

Can we please fucking talk about vampires and werewolves?

>>50349081

Stalin was a socialist. You can be a socialist and still suck at it horribly. The deformed nightmare of a worker's state that the USSR was was still an attempt of doing an economy without capitalism. It was the worst, but that doesn't make it not an attempt. You can be left-wing and still oppress people and commit terrible crimes against humanity.

Stalin beleived that the workers could seize the means of production only through the power of a strong state and a single party to represent and guide the workers, and that one could establish it without a worldwide revolution. I see that as the wrong path, but that doesn't make it not a path.

Much like authoritarianism, "freedom" is a concept that any wing can take and define for their own, it's just a matter of which definition one believes is the true one.

So i bought Requiem 2nd edition because i heard every faction has magic one way or another and i like the occultist aspect of Vampire.

I come from Masquerade (playing not DMing) but i have problem grasping how the different covenants fight each other?

I get the Ordo Dracul might fight other covenants for a place of power but aside from that? What do the Crone care about what the other Covenants do, unless is hunt them? Same for the Lancea.

Masquerade was easier to wrap my brain around, as the Sabbat Vs Camarilla was the main conflict that drive the clans to "play nice" to each other but Requiem seems aimless. I feel that the ONLY way to run it is personal conflict and that the covenants are just sorta there.

>>50349197

They all want to spread their ideology. The covenants aren't just a handy political club, they're philosophies on what to do as a Vampire for the rest of eternity. This can erupt as territory wars, but it also might manifest as more political fights.

Conflict in Requiem is less outright explosive between factions in its natural state, but more tense. The other factions aren't doing their duty, celebrating the right figures, doing meaningless rabble rousing, or wallowing in obsolete ideas or just failure in their eyes. They still have to get along versus the Brood, VII, and the Strix, but that doesn't mean that they don't try to take Princedom or the majority of Domains or just making sure they have a decent cut in some large Vampire scheme.

>>50349197
The Covenants aren't all at each other's throats. In fact, they're ostensibly on the same "team". Requiem isn't aimless, it's just not about an overarching setting of two teams duking it out. Every Covenant has reasons they might be at odds with another Covenant. There's a Religious/Political divide: Carthians <---> Invictus, Lancae et Sanctum <---> Circle of the Crone, with the Ordo Dracul picking up slack as creepy mad science nerds. But nothing about Requiem is set in stone, either. You may very well have a city where the Dragons and the Sanctified are allied. There's even a canon example of a mix of Circle and Lance in the "Livian Heresy", which if I recall worship's Longinus' mother as a Mary like figure.

Requiem *IS* a game about personal conflicts, and the Covenants exist not for team jerseys and who to fight, but as the backdrop of the city and the context for interpersonal conflicts. Take a look at some of the sample cities. None of them really have the standard Covenant set up. Some of them don't even have the typical Covenants at all, like Tokyo, which has the Zaibatsu criminal corporations instead.

Covenant stuff isn't the same as Sect stuff, because Covenant stuff is intentionally more complicated than "us vs them".

>>50349197
They don't necessarily fight each other, sometimes it's just power struggle or a kind of cold war.
But generally Invictus and Carthinas hate each other, and similarly Lancea don't like Circle. But often it's just about money, influence, hunting grounds. Requiem is much less black and white, there really aren't only good or bad guys, much like in RL.
If you care about motives of each faction, check out Mega bin with covenant books, although rules have changed, fluff is still pretty much same.

>>50349173
>Stalin was a socialist. You can be a socialist and still suck at it horribly.
Okay, well, how about we stop acting like a guy who did it all wrong is somehow the ultimate expression of socialism, and why we as Americans have to be more Right than even some of the crazy Nationalist places in Europe?

>>50349353

The USSR is still the largest implementation of socialism in the world, and fought with the US on a cultural level for half a century. It's going to be seen as the ultimate form of socialism for quite a while, even though it was bad socialism. If you're going to change the narrative, you need a better socialism. And there lies the hell a lot of the left has been in over the past thirty years.

>>50349326

If I remember right, the covenant books are still pretty good too, as a whole.

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>>50349326
>Requiem is much less black and white

Mfw when people think any of the factions in VtM were completely black or white.

>>50349495

I think "diametrically opposed" would be a better way of putting it, if we're taking the later VtM stuff into account.

Does anyone have the Mage 2e pdf with errata? Thanks in advance.

>>50349495
>baby eating is the same as being a dick boss

Kind of hard to claim sabbat is any shade of gray

>>50349529
>Forced memeage
stop being lazy and cheap

>>50349551

You could use the whole Antediluvian thing as an attempt at a shade of grey, but that falls apart pretty fast in my eyes.

>>50349551
>Kind of hard to claim sabbat is any shade of gray

They think they're saving the world (and themselves) by killing Antedeluvians. They make no claim to be humane, and revel in their alien natures, and many of their number are complete monsters who torture humans for sport... and then there's the others who follow codes of thoughts and morality that are straight out honorable; always keeping their word, never showing cowardice, always repaying debts, duty comes before personal wants, and so on.

The Sabbat are inhuman, yes. There's undoubtedly a lot of black in them, at least from a human point of view.

Are they completely black? No. There's plenty of raging Sabbat assholes, and there's plenty of cordial (even if not mindlessly kind to everyone they meet) kindred in the Sabbat that uphold laws of honour that put a lot of Cammies to shame, especially considering just how low on the Humanity scale a lot of the Cammies drop.

There's rarely anyone in the World of Darkness who isn't an asshole. And even the ones who aren't assholes in the "let's murderfuck everyone" way, are usually assholey enough to make up for it in other avenues.

>>50349710
>straight out honorable; always keeping their word, never showing cowardice, always repaying debts, duty comes before personal wants, and so on.
That's just LE, and can be as black as it comes. The only ones I would call non-evil are the ones on the Path of Harmony, and that one seems quite rare.

>>50349812
Not everything fits into simplistic D&D alignment axis, Anon McAnonymous.

>>50349906
In the end, I think it does; you just need to use a consistent ethical calculus.

>>50349666
yeah pretty much just see the Ants as the writer/narrative trying to justify being monsters. When they really kind of didn't need to be to complete their quest. And if they're going for the I take monstrous allies to do the greater good, that doesn't play out either, because they continue to be horrible assholes.

A sabbat game is interesting because of the break from the christian narrative as the whole truth, and the splintering of different ideologies and methodologies of power and what do we do with the setting. but in practice is so horrible flawed

Sabbat without the Cam is the pointless, or the setting needs a rewrite. The belief you need a monster mommy and daddy to make sure you don't become a retarded monster, is a ridiculous assertion. and the overt amount of collateral damage a full scale sabbat entity creates destroys the setting verisimilitude of modern day with a secrete underworld. even with the backpedaling of the Silence of the Blood. that actually does make them exactly like the Cam without the elders. In practice Cam doesn't really give a sht out humanity, just in so far as it helps people blend in. But no ST ever enforces those rules or ideas, so its a moot point.

now if you want a story of a rag tag realizing the truth of yon elders and the super secrete world destroying evil they protect, you could use the anarchs. but lets face it. the sabbat are the real anarchs. they actually do the shit they set out to do. the sabbat actually destabilize whole courts and swallows them into itself.

It's a conflict of order verse chaos. not a saving the world against the evil I don't personally like

Ravnos on the path of Paradox were the only good guys really.

Vampire = Bad
Killing vampire = Good.

Pretty simple really, any vampire is potentially a threat to the humans so killing them all is the good thing.

>scratches his totalitarian moustache

>>50349940

I'm on to you, Johnny Technocrat.

>>50349312
>Some of them don't even have the typical Covenants at all, like Tokyo, which has the Zaibatsu criminal corporations instead.

Is there any rule for making covenants? or i could potentially put a covenant with Cruac, theban and scales magic all in one.

>>50349304
>but that doesn't mean that they don't try to take Princedom or the majority of Domains or just making sure they have a decent cut in some large Vampire scheme

Well this interest me but what could they care about exactly? Vampire dont need food or any resources besides blood and money eventually comes to anyone with unlimited life span so what would a covenant could wants as part of their cut?

I can see the Invictus/carthians and even Lancea Sactum wanting economical profit but the Ordo Dracul/Crone seem kind of beyond that kind of banal stuff.

>>50349967

Is Jonah Trenchcoat, i change it to sound even more edgier.

>>50349929
Bullshit. Ethics =/= morality. Morality is the only place there is absolutism and black and white thinking. Ethics are more a flexible series of greys. Flexible greys don't fit into a D&D style alignment system, where good and evil are recognised by the colour of their hats. The World of Darkness is a reflection of our world, not an idealisation of it.

>>50349812
>That's just LE, and can be as black as it comes. The only ones I would call non-evil are the ones on the Path of Harmony, and that one seems quite rare.

The Harmonists either abandoned their path in favour of the Path of the Feral Heart, became loners who never interact with the rest of the Sabbat, left the Sabbat entirely or got killed (majority of them got killed when they decided to try bullying the Sabbat into following the Harmonious way). There's nearly no Harmonists left.

But, the Feral Heart path that remains is also what I'd arguably call one of the more non-evil ones. It shies away from pointless cruelty, and advocates killing only when it is necessary for one's own survival. Of course, it also accepts killing as a perfectly valid option if your life is on the line, and feeling guilty over saving your own life is nonsensical to the followers of the Feral Heart. The same applied to the Harmonists, though the Harmonists were more concerned with the natural world and not "defiling it" in any way. Feral Heart is more concerned with the whole "A beast I am, lest a Beast I become" thing.

So they killed some wannabe vampire hippies, and got more packs of hardcore survivors in return. Not a bad trade.

>>50349940
Question becomes. How do I kill the most vamps?

Situation I am a vamp. Kill me, kills only one vamp. If I light myself on fire and grab vampyone. That'll kill two vamps! But if I wait it out and kill two more vamps with a van. That;ll make the first step in a long carer.

But how do I kill the secrete powerfull hiding vamps? Ah tricky tricky. If I can use vamps 1-3 to distract BigVamp then kill Bigvamp with a sneak attack. and then Congratulate vamps 1-3 with a flaming sword, thus breaking them from the curse and then kill myself. That'll make 4 regular vamps and one big bad gone.

>literally very paradox Ravnos before a sabbat raid

>>50349353
>America is more right wing than fascist Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Greece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imOdJk5Qx5k

>>50350030
I could accept the Sabbat as being grayer if they had even the slightest tinge of success to any of their plans to defeat the Antediluvians. They seem utterly convinced that the Camarilla are their pawns, which I'm fairly sure is incorrect (the Assamites, Setites and Giovanni are where you should be looking).

>When the ghoul player seizes the means of production with his 7s in all physicals

>>50350050
you left out "Australia".

>>50350100

Oh boy, WoD music time!

https://youtu.be/_DSEldHcJ7o

>>50350030
>So they killed some wannabe vampire hippies, and got more packs of hardcore survivors in return. Not a bad trade.

More like they let everyone else kill the harmonists and converted the few that saw the writing on the wall. Path of FH starting and fighting in conflict they don't really care about is not survival but expending resources for another's benefit

The harmonists and the sabbat don't mix because of the horrible amount of collateral damage the sabbat wants, (Which is really dumb) and the amount that those actions fuck over the local systems. (economic political biological) The hamonists being an inhuman balancing counter point to the sabbat's open hedonism is a really cool story idea. but because the writers pushed the sabbat to be dumb edgy, Correct and horrible baby eaters is folly.

What is wrong with conflicting ideologies having valid points and fighting it out in game?

>>50350044

Mostly you infiltrate vampire society and make it implode. Kind of a count chocula version of bale hounds

>>50347428
>What is your opinion of splat mixing? From Samuel Haight to David Hill's Faerie Vampires.
Why would I want to mix splats? I play Mage I'm already the master splat.

>>50350150
>Stake vamp
>Chain to wall
>Feed like a gold fish
>Drain like a keg when hungry
AY Comrade it is a good vintage circuit 1920s slapper girl confirmed birth certificate and everything

>>50349999
>Is there any rule for making covenants?
Not really, but they're just social groups. Give them a purpose and philosophy. Same as you'd make any group. You could even start by tweaking an existing covenant for your area.
>or i could potentially put a covenant with Cruac, theban and scales magic all in one.
You could, but that'd get bland. There's actually a book called Sacraments and Blasphemies that gives rules for generic blood magic to use as either Cruac or Theban Miracles.

>Well this interest me but what could they care about exactly? Vampire dont need food or any resources besides blood and money eventually comes to anyone with unlimited life span so what would a covenant could wants as part of their cut?
Vampires do need food and resources. People are their food for one, and they're going to want the nice food. No one wants to have their hunting grounds restricted to the place filled with dockworkers and hobos. Beyond that, being undead doesn't mean you never want to watch TV or play video games or read books (there's even one Mekhet who catfishes people as a hacker). There's also parties and clubs. Social power. Money only comes to you eventually if you've got it to begin with, and power doesn't come at all unless you work for it.

There are plenty of reasons to want things. Check out "Sinners in the City" under Chapter Two.

>the Ordo Dracul/Crone seem kind of beyond that kind of banal stuff.
The Ordo especially need resources (both fiscal and physical) for their experiments, and the Crone are often victimized as a minority (and they're generally *always* a minority), with some Lancae et Sanctum controlled domains having them kill on sight (though in those cases it's not like the Dragons are going to fare much better). There's always reason to want power for you and yours, even if the reason is simply for power's sake

>>50350013
>Morality is absolute

>>50350050
>Considering the Balkans Europe
Also you know damned well which countries I meant.

>>50349940
>Ravnos on the path of Paradox were the only good guys really.

I assume you mean the Mayaparisatya Path of Paradox, since that's the really stupid "hurpadurp, killing all vampires is good, nurpaburp" path that made zero sense to have in the modern world.

The Samsara Path of Paradox (which is the one mainly followed by modern Ravnos, according to V20) is far more sensible and NOT STUPID.

The Path of Samsara Hierarchy of Sins
>1 --- Embracing a mother:
Mothers have given life, and should tend life. They should never be made servants of death.
>9 --- Respect deception, but seek truth:
This is the infinite paradox. Through uncovering paradoxes and realizing that both parts are true, we peel away the world’s illusions.
>8 --- Killing a mortal:
Death robs a person of the ability to fulfill their svadharma.
>7 Failing to destroy a failed vampire:
A vampire has failed when she rejects her vampiric nature. Trying to become mortal again, attempting to live a mortal life, acquire perfect humanity, or revering mortals above vampires are signs of utter failure.
>6 --- Returning to your mortal life or pretending to be mortal:
Your svadharma is no longer theirs; those ways are forbidden to you after the Embrace.
>5 --- Carrying a karmic debt:
Owing someone on a spiritual level (for example, because they saved your unlife) impacts your svadharma. Such debt prevents you from fulfilling your destiny.
>4 --- Failure to follow your svadharma:
Once you know your purpose, you must never betray or turn from it.
>3 --- Killing a vampire that is clearly following his svadharma:
No destiny is more important than any other. You cannot stop the workings of fate or karma, and you should not try.
>2 --- Becoming blood bound:
Forcibly tying your svadharma to another’s is anathema.
>1 --- Embracing, except as a critical part of
your svadharma:
The Embrace ends one svadharma to begin another. Never lightly end another’s path.

>>50350341
>Mayaparisatya Path of Paradox

has the same problems as fish malks. Interesting in idea, but horrible in execution, because first timers also play this game and no body sets them straight

Samsara Path is just the sabbat's version of go kill vampires. Just go kill the human vampires. which means go kill the Cam. its a propaganda piece.

>Failing to destroy a failed vampire
Can be used to paint any vampire as a target because what is a failed vampire? What does it look like and act like? And how can you trust a vamp to paint a good picture?

So Really the paths and roads and humanity are all equally bullshit as it's just the means of constructing a mind to float over the dark curse, and not be a rampaging monster with no mind

>>50350341

I dont see the problem with playing a Mayaparisatya, only that maintaining high humanity is difficult but thats the same for humanity path.

>>50350473
>what is a failed vampire?

>>50350341
>A vampire has failed when she rejects her vampiric nature. Trying to become mortal again, attempting to live a mortal life, acquire perfect humanity, or revering mortals above vampires are signs of utter failure.

Revelation that The Beast is just just humanity when?

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>>50350120

"Mister Cardinal, the VMD reports are in. We've got confirmed sightings of Tremere in Italy, Giovanni also in Italy." Turns a few pages "Set making moves in Egypt and Sit-a? Ausa? The fucking Assamite leader in Palestine to counter"

"INVADE NEWYORK1"

>tfw

>>50350621
Nope, nope, nope, everything but this.

>>50350473
>has the same problems as fish malks. Interesting in idea, but horrible in execution, because first timers also play this game and no body sets them straight

Thats more the fault of DMs/players than the path itself.

The parth of Mayaparisatya is difficult to follow as it should be, the most competent followers of Mayaparisatya would probably range between morality 5 or lower because of the compromises they have to make for their end goal.

Or maybe sacrifice the efficiency of killing all those dirty vamps in favor of keeping to your principles.

The fact that is difficult to follow in modern nights is good as that avoid to make it the "path of what i was gonna do anyway"

>>50350663
IT
TURNS
OUT
IT'S
MAN

>>50350663
>e've got confirmed sightings of Tremere in Italy, Giovanni also in Italy." Turns a few pages "Set making moves in Egypt and Sit-a? Ausa? The fucking Assamite leader in Palestine to counter"

I picture Chocula writing that laughing at how "mind-blowing" it would be as an idea.

Did Dracula released another interview or I'm missing something?

>>50350663
Relax Anon, vampire's beast is nothing but a manifestation of the corrupted spirit that is Beast of War.

>>50350812

Nothing super recent, and nothing close to the Beast being humanity, at least for now. We should be getting those mobile apps any day now, so we can actually see what this edition is going to be like outside of talk.

>>50350561
yeah thats the point it is a propaganda piece. That and line 6 are the only places that talk about humanity, where every where else it talks about karmatic systems. This is the only line that talks about human vampires and is inconsistent with the rest of the piece. and infact borrows from teh Path of metamorphosis about reject the mundane mortals. You can easly change that line to Kill all clowny vamps and it'd still be the same.

What it should really be to be more consistent is
>Failing to correct a imbalanced karmic vampire
This actually references the before lines 5 and 6 and leads to the above 8 and 10. Which can then Include human vampires without being blantenly transparent that it means kill cammies

It's a piece to point all of the ravnos as a weapon against the Cam. It's religious bullshit and just a leash sabbat wants around teh ravnos

>>50350658
>>50350728

It's a dig at the bush administration and invading iran on reports of WMDs in iraq for political oil reasons, and destabilizing the region

>>50350923

Sorry i wanted to quote the anon saying the beast is humanity no the whole dig at bush.

>>50350929

And the source tweet: https://twitter.com/wwpublishing/status/801113004746084352

5e is offically in playtesting, which means that it might actually be put in 2017 as promised. It also means the whole system was probably being written this whole time, hopefully.

>>50350929
Lots of Europeans in my old communal dorm lobby

>>50350929
>>50351002
Just 6 people playtesting?

>>50350341
What if my svadharma is to become mortal again?

>>50350561
I have to agree with >>50350856
I mean, what counts as "rejecting her vampiric nature"? Presumably it means being on the Path of Humanity, or otherwise not being a monster (except the Samsarans clearly aren't murderhobos who go naked and live in the woods).

>>50350929
Dracula and the Tremere really stick out in that group

>>50351002
>the whole system was probably being written this whole time

>they'll actually change anything
mechanically from edition to edition not a whole lot has changed

Should I just stop playing Masquerade once I get to the sewer level? This is the worst thing ever...

>>50351097
Just cheat. No one will judge you for not playing something unfun.
Well, plenty of people will, but they're assholes.

>>50351042
How many people would you have in a playtest game...?

>>50351097
Do you want to get to the ending?
Just cheat if you really have to.

>>50351115
>>50351113
Is Chinatown at least a return to form?

>>50351135
pretty much

>>50351135
Not really, no. Chinatown is the most obviously unfinished hub, with it's own murderfest club followed by a really tedious little dungeon, and after that you've got Society of Leopold, Santa Monica with nothing but vampires trying to kill you, and then Ventrue Tower where everyone has stunlocking machineguns.

>>50351135
It's a hub/masquerade area like Santa Monica or downtown if that's what you mean.

You get to kill a furry too

>>50351209
>You get to kill a furry too
Fishy.
Though in >>50351188 I did forget about the Griffith Park and Keui-jin ninja bullshit. And Andrej's hotel. Is the Giovanni mansion before or after that? It was one of the better parts of the game. I can only assume that means it took place before the Warrens.

>>50351113
>How many people would you have in a playtest game...?
About half a dozen to test basics. Then 10-15 groups.

>>50351794

I assume this is, in fact, the basics playtest. I figure expanded playtesting is either happening internally, or among the By Night Studios/LARPing crowd.

>>50351794
Playtesting is done by having groups run actual games. That's a group running an actual game.

>>50352028

You do need more than one group for a good playtest, but it's safe to say that this will happen. Probably no chance at an open playtest, since White Wolf really likes the idea of what they do being secret.

>>50351248
There's the Warrens, then Chinatown, the Giovanni mansion, the Inquisition monastery, the Hallowbrook Hotel, Griffith Park, and then one or both final dungeons (the Temple of Golden Virtue and the Venture Tower).

>>50351113
>How many people would you have in a playtest game...?
As many as possible. Hopefully as far from the developer inner-circle as possible.

>>50351056
>I mean, what counts as "rejecting her vampiric nature"?

IIRC, it specifically means not vampires on Humanity, but vampires who are seeking or are in Golconda. Paradox Ravnos believe that anyone who was made a vampire, regardless of beliefs, was made so for a reason and has a higher purpose to fulfill in so becoming. Actively trying to escape that condition is seen as heretical rejection of one's destiny as a vampire.

Of course, one could argue that finding the state of Golconda IS one's vampiric svadharma, I guess...

>>50352148
You want a playtest game to be like a normal game. You don't load it up with thirty people just because.

>>50352154
>Of course, one could argue that finding the state of Golconda IS one's vampiric svadharma, I guess...
I did. In literally that post.

>>50352142
Giovanni Mansion is the only part of that worth a damn, and it still has a bunch of zombies to fight through for padding.

>>50353030
>I did. In literally that post.

I was agreeing with you

>>50353030

You do if it's an RPG/LARP Hybrid!

That is, of course, the only time, and 5e sure ain't that probably.

>>50351209

Furries are people too!

>>50353115
Literally not.

>>50353030
I meant several groups.

>>50353138
Presumably there will be. This is only one group.

>>50353052
not that Anon but by hiding it in a spoiler you're downplaying a valid point. and thus it looks very much like you're not wishing to publicly concede to Anon's point. which is disingenuous

>>50353052
>>50353341
Actually I just assumed because it was spoilered that he didn't notice I said that already.

I'm running a newbie Mage in a mixed nWoD game with a vampire and a werebear. I had my Awakening, but haven't found any other Mages yet. I'm considering visiting the vampire character's Prince for guidance. Is that a bad idea? My vampire friend has significant pull with the Prince, so hopefully I won't get murdered.

Additionally, as a noob Moros focusing heavily on Matter, how can I experiment on my own without a mentor? I've got 3 dots in Matter, and I haven't accomplished much yet:
Made a lighter burn hotter
Made a hand axe choppier
Made a car handle slightly better
Gave myself the ability to detect traces of gold within 12 meters
Tried to remove stone from the floor of a gold mine to access the gold, but ended up melting the ceiling instead
Dried off a bunch of wet wood so I could make a fire

Additionally, I don't have many XP yet (only nine), what should I prioritize my experience for at the beginning? Skills seem extremely important, I've used them more than anything, but I imagine Gnosis and Attributes are bigguns as well.

>>50351056
>What if my svadharma is to become mortal again?

Off-set by the fact that no Ravnos is going to think that becoming mortal is A; even possible and B; consider becoming mortal as a valid svadharma.

Any vampire can say that Golconda (or Humanity, or whatever) is her svadharma/destiny or whatever, but no Ravnos is going to go "Yeah, that seems completely appropriate!", unless you've got a shitty storyteller.

At best Golconda seekers (if their aim is to become human, rather than a super vampire) will be seen as misguided fools, at worst they'll be regarded as malicious heretics who are trying to upset the "natural" order of the universe.

>>50348437
They'd have to be dirt cheap.
Like, about a dollar each.

>>50353864
>nWoD game with a vampire and a werebear
>werebear
Are you using Changing breeds? Or are you porting the Gurahl from Old World?

>>50353900
>anyone knows what their destiny actually is

>>50349070
>Relatively left-wing for the time, maybe, but there's still stuff like "the incorrectness of homosexual development," so I wouldn't call it leftist in an objective sense.
Calling something incorrect is extremely left. Or did you forget about the Politcal Correctness doctrine?

>>50353900
>no Ravnos is going to think that becoming mortal is [...] a valid svadharma
Wow, how judgemental. Maybe it's also my svadharma to smack down judgemental shits.
Also, how does a Samsaran know their own svadharma to follow it (as with the tier 4 Sin)? What if *their* svadharma is to achieve Golconda?

Mummy novel's out for backers.

Hey, >>50344576 from the previous thread?

I'm trying to find the citation. There was a point when there was a statement from an OPP that development of the 20th lines would cease for OPP once WW released 5th edition, since all OWoD development will be moving in house.

Likely it wouldn't impact the actual 20th Anniversary books continuing to be sold, as that's free, easy money. Once I find the source again I'll post it.

>>50354263
Part of the Ravnos path is figuring it out; many never quite do as I recall.

Also, is the Western Path of Paradox still a thing in V20?

>>50353996
Uh, Changing? Not sure, really. If it matters we're playing 1st ed

>>50354974
You poor motherfucker.

>>50354682
Aha, here we go.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/4klukr/whats_going_on_with_vampire_fourth_edition/

>>50355192
Huh, i always thought it was just a rumor.

Where in Mage 2e are the rules for Conditional Triggers?
They are mentioned in a few places, but I can't find the actual rules for them.

>>50350929
God I wish that woman had a sex tape.

Full assrape stiffness, boi i tel u wat

>>50351062
No, but they're taking the wheels of the apple cart in other areas. Surprised this one passed everyone by;

https://twitter.com/Dhaunae/status/792398498524192768

NOTHING CANON IS SAFE

Why does WoD turn into /pol/ so fucking much? Fuck you Aspel and fuck everyone that replies to them.

>>50355133
What's wrong with that? I mean, I'm running a Mage.

>>50355571
Because the Changing Breeds book is terrible.

>>50355434
>Woman

>>50355525
This is also from a LARP that doesn't have any bearing on the actual 5th Edition/otherwise canon, where people were replaying the Convention of Thorns.

Hey, would WoD be the most optimal game to run a Dresden Files esq. game?

>>50355988

I mean, there /is/ a Dresden Files game...

>>50355988
No. I think that The Dresden Files would be best for that.

>>50356017
I heard it was kinda, meh.

>>50355616
Okay. Good thing I'm not running the werebear. What should I prioritize the highest: skills, attributes, gnosis or the arcana?

>>50356029
Really?
The only reason I'm running WoD instead of that is that one of my players read the first half of the first book and said the Dresden Files were bad, and refuse to touch ANYTHING related to it.

And he has quite a lot of sway in the group.

>>50355525
That's dumb.
Also, that woman has the jawline and countenance of a woman who owns many riding crops and no horses.

>>50356068
Your friend is an idiot. Book 1 and 2 are considered rough starts by most fans, but they're certainly not that bad. Tell him to skip to book three.

>>50356068
Is it going well?
Is the system good for investigation? Does it capture the Penny Dreadful feel?

>>50356029

The Dresden Files game isn't bad, it's just a little bit unwieldy compared to Fate Core. I'm really excited to see Dresden Files Accelerated next year.

CofD tends to be a little bit more horror-y than Dresden Files, and there's a kitchen sink approach to the latter that the CofD takes a lot of doing in order to handle. I'd sooner use DFRPG or Urban Shadows than CofD.

>>50356084
>Your friend is an idiot. Book 1 and 2 are considered rough starts by most fans, but they're certainly not that bad. Tell him to skip to book three.

I know! I recommended him to start at Book 7! It was written as an introduction to new readers! But he wanted to start at the beginning, so he didn't miss anything!
And how he refuses to touch ANYTHING related to it.

>>50356098
>The Dresden Files game isn't bad, it's just a little bit unwieldy compared to Fate Core. I'm really excited to see Dresden Files Accelerated next year.

Sure. It's a tad clunky, I admit. But Fate as a system in general is better than the Storytelling or Storyteller systems.

>>50356094
Eh. Does a system capture...
No! The games might. But the system doesn't. The system is built to make a Dresden Files-esque game easy. And it does that.

>>50352105
I am advised by our legal team that you have breached your NDA with that comment. Please delete your post immediately, or receive the full assrape stiffness we took to the makers of Underworld.

Yours in buttfrustration,
Tobias Sjögren

>>50356128

You won't hear any complaints from me on that front. FATE and GUMSHOE are my two favorite systems. And like I mentioned, the new version of DFRPG is on the way.

I'd kill to see official conversions of the CofD lines to FATE.

>>50354689

Thats why the path of Mayaparisatya is the best path of paradox, no questioning who and what destiny. The only good non-jati Vampire is a dead Vampire.

>>50356098
>>50356111
>>50356128
Thanks! I will keep this in mind and check it out.

>>50353124
Your definition of "literally" is false. Literally.

>anon thinks he is better than furries but most likely has a few kinks of his own
>anon buys into the fetishocracy to appease low self esteem

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>>50356172
>the full assrape stiffness we took to the makers of Underworld.
... settling out of court without Sony so much as ever acknowledging Masquerade in future movies?

>>50356212
I've got plenty of fetishes. But dogmen and cowgirls are clearly not people. They're dogmen and cowgirls.

>>50355323
>Huh, i always thought it was just a rumor.

Is there that many V20 book left to publish that havent been announced?

>>50353900
How can the Path of Paradox state in one place that becoming a vampire ends their svadharma, then state in other places that other vampires denying their svadharma must be destroyed? How can they deny what has already stopped?

More like the Path of Being A Stupid Cunt

>Camarilla 1, Ravnos 0

>>50354406
Just let it go, Aspel, you goddamn mouthbreather. This isn't the Soviet Era General (that would be Molotov *drum roll*)

>>50356240
People are just afraid of Dracula's 'ass-rape stiffness' V5, with things like 'war for the graves o the Antediluvians' and changes to core institutions like the Beast, the Camarilla, and Discipline use.

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>>50356235
Ironically CtL is great for making dogmen and cowgirls.

>>50356294
But I'm not Aspel, and in fact I'm disagreeing with Aspel, you condom.

>>50356320

Changeling being the preferred furry game over Werewolf has always made me giggle.

It's not like my chronicle wound up revolving around a hunky lion man or anything.

>>50356299

Well as long as they finish they current books for V20, W20 and M-Buccatto manifiesto-20.

>>50356179
Let's go the other way! GURPS conversions of the cofd splats! I want it!

>>50356172

>tfw you actually ARE under an NDA

>>50356294
>Implying everyone saying anything about politics is me
>>50356260
>The Embrace ends one svadharma to begin another
>to begin another
Are you illiterate?

>>50356320
Changelings are people that just happen to look like dogmen and cowgirls.

>>50356352
Changeling lets you customize. Werewolf is about being a murderraper.

>>50356364
I'd rather see a generic version of CofD.
Which is kind of what Storypath is.

>>50356352
>Changeling being the preferred furry game over Werewolf

Huh, that was never true where I was. All the furry fan RPers I ever encountered around here preferred oWolf.

>>50356320
Cute cows anon.

>>50356360
They said elsewise that everything already planned/approved for x20 lines will come out.

>>50356364
>Let's go the other way! GURPS conversions of the cofd splats! I want it!

>Implying I don't have a 3E GURPS VtM conversion to 4E
>Implying I'm not working on a Werewolf conversion as I type this

Come on anon there's no limit

What should I prioritize, skills, attributes, arcana, or gnosis?

>>50356452
Arcana & Gnosis. Become a god.

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>>50356377
Changeling allows me to make dogmen that had to escape from a painting, lest they be playing poker for all of eternity.

Changeling also allows me to make girls that have gigantic breasts and a few harmless cow attributes because they were captured and chained to an otherwordly farm as cattle.

>>50356452
What do you want to do?

>>50356438
I'd do it myself but I don't really have the time nor the system mastery.

>>50356479
But they're so expensive. It'll take forever to earn the experience.

>>50356517
Play up drama, pursue your apsirations and obsessions, take every condition you can, resolve every condition you can, and push your abilities as far as you can risking failure so you can turn them Dramatic for additional beats.

There's so much player control over experience gain in CofD it's crazy.

>>50356484
I want to be halfway decent at everything, at least. I just feel like if I wait and buy a single point of gnosis or an arcana every few sessions, I'm gonna suck at everything for long spans of time until I dump my experience every few sessions.

>>50356452

Without a DM limiting the raising of gnosis/Arcanum the game is more or less an arms race to see who reaches 5 first.

>>50356565
>I want to be halfway decent at everything, at least. I just feel like if I wait and buy a single point of gnosis or an arcana every few sessions, I'm gonna suck at everything for long spans of time until I dump my experience every few sessions.

First concentrate in arcanum until you top it, then Gnosis. If you play an acanthus with Fate you dont really need skills because Fate is broken as fuck.

>>50356589
If it matters, I'm running a Moros with a focus on crafting.

>>50355192
Holy shit, Monte Cook WoD 2.0 here we go. Why have some of the most seasoned and experienced and senior game developers who worked on the titles for decades, when you can cherry pick LARP players, give them writing jobs and completely fuck the recipe for the special sauce?

This still doesn't explain how it will affect POD titles. I hope they don't pull those in an asinine effort to force us all onto 5th editions.

>>50356655
Because they haven't said anything about how it will. Likely it won't, but we know at least OPP won't be publishing any new x20 stuff after what's done/already approved.

>>50355568
Because the settings of both Chronic of Bad Lighting and World of Bad Lighting are reflections of our own world, so nearly anything relating to our own world has some value for storytelling. Pls stop being precious.

>>50356619
>focus on crafting
Then save experiences, and use them to rebuy points of Willpower when you Relinqish spells.

>>50355704
I care not what dangles betwixt her thigs - all I know is the urge to PENETRATE like Aspel at a daycare centre

>>50356701
If I remember correctly, isn't that the cost to make a permanently enhanced item? Like, to make an enchantment permanent, you have to sacrifice a dot of willpower?

>>50355988
The rules for Sorcerers in WoD might be what you need.

>>50356727
Are you that Moros guy playing 1e from earlier?
Because you can either spend a dot, a point, or go through the Tome of the Mysteries paths.

Regardless those don't necessarily make it permanent, they just mean you don't have to worry about spell control.
The spell has to have an indefinite duration in the first place.
You can relinquish a 24 second spell, but unless your life depends on it, that's not a very smart move.

>>50356768
Ah, makes sense then. Yeah, no point in letting go of a spell if it's only gonna last for ten seconds. I can't wait until I run into other Mages... It's really hard to do magic as a completely isolated Mage with no knowledge of the Supernal or how magic works at all.

>>50356875
You might need to inform your GM about this, but Awakening sets off a mystic shockwave that other Mages of your path can sense.

So you might have some new... Friends. Trying to find you soon.

>>50356898
Oh! Well then, he didn't inform me of that, maybe for a reason. I was hoping something like that would be the case. Also, is it normal for mages to come back from their awakening with a souvenir? I found a coin made of lead with runs on it in the Supernal realm, and after I came back, it was in my pocket. What do?

>>50355413
You mean the Conditional Duration attainment?

>>50356235
IRL it amounts to a pair of fake ears and a tail hanging off a buttplug, squishy human underneath.

No man is a gimp suit entire of itself;
every man is a cock and anus, a part of the unwashed;
if a gimp be slagged off by the internet, Europe
is the less, as well as if a gay bar were, as
well as any manner of thy kinky friends or of thine own fuckbuddies were;
besmirching any man's kink diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the whore comes; she screams for thee.

>>50356377
>Are you illiterate?
I don't know, I can't read your question enough to answer it :D

>tfw I can smell your scorched asshair from here

Does anyone have the Mage 2e pdf with errata?

How many points in strength would it take for it to be reasonable for somebody to pick up and throw a car.

>>50357071

Over the human maximum, so 6+

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>>50357071

>>50357071
Check the lifting chart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbVmzgDb3QI

>>50357071
Overturning a full-sized car is STR 11 and overturning a large truck is STR 15, so I suppose you'd need to extrapolate from there.

>>50356933
It can happen, it's usually an Artifact.

Just found a trove of work some players did fleshing out the Ritae from the Sabbat.

http://kiasyd.proboards.com/thread/1/sabbat-ritae

>>50357392
Here's some story ideas from the TOJ news ticker, 12 years ago now.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060821180345/http://timeofjudgment.com/newsticker.html

If I were to write a modern Apocalypse game the Alt-Right movement would be RIPE for some by product of The Wyrm.
The Alt-Right assholes would just be a product of a longer scheme by the Wyrm. It would be the latest incarnation that is spawned by Right Wing Media. Like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and Brietbart. They create this bubble of ignorance, reinforce it with demagoguery spouted by people like Sean Hannity and Anne Coulter who traded bits of their self for the greed of a few dollars. They create memes that inspire raw hatred for liberals, gays, trans people, Mexicans, Muslims...
It honestly could be a plot in a Black Dog book put out by White Wolf.
These people, now lashing out at anyone who isn't a white Christian male conservative are embracing hate groups, influencing their children to hate like them (as we've seen in various schools), and it has the byproduct of creating hate among liberals and progressives toward conservatives.
I know I hate the shit out of them.
But we see this cascade effect of hate that is inspiring hate. We see this movement buying up the guns (the NRA is totally an agent of the Wyrm) and arming themselves for the coming "race" war or a new civil war. They are told that the government is sucks, the Republicans fuck up government, which confirms their claim that it sucks and they blame liberals so all these heavily armed, social media informed, angry, terrified, xenophobes begin seeing anyone not like them as this invading force and goddamnit they are going to kill anyone who tries to say Happy Holidays to them!
This shit isn't even a stretch.

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>>50357548
10/10 Aspel

Fascist coup in America when?

>>50357548
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

>>50357484
Well, this is great for me. I needed more apocalyptic news reports for the LARP. Thanks anon!

>>50357548
The trouble is that, as horrible assholery in humanity goes, when looking at the world as a whole and world history as a whole, the alt-right is small potatoes. The Wyrm would be getting much less from that than, well, just the war in Syria for starters. It's overly Western-centric and just a touch hysterical for an enemy of world-destroying potential.

If anything, the Wyrm would be backing Trump for environmental reasons.

>>50357548
We just stopped talking about politics why do you have to bring this up again?

>>50357548
>Alt-Right being the worst thing around
>He doesn't know about the thousands of far Right (I mean the real kind of far right) paramilitary movements worldwide
>He thinks a bunch of memesters are worse than fucking death squads
Come on anon step your game up

>>50357727
To be fair there are right wing deathsquads as well
But yeah saying a bunch of trolls is somehow one of the most evil things for the Wyrm to feed on is fucking stupid.

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>>50357548
>Everyone who likes guns is a racist white conservative
>mfw

>>50357803
>To be fair there are right wing deathsquads as well
I was referring to right wing deathsquads when I mentioned, you know, far right paramilitary groups. Unless you mean left wing deathsquads, which yes, those do exist, but very clearly the anon posting wanted a right-wing villain.

>>50357829
You did too, my mistake I misread

>>50357816
>posting a pic of nature's junkies
>eyes bloodshot with eucalypt haze

Get a real job, marsupial scum

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>>50357850
No problem

Thinking about it, an adventure centered around Latin-American Deathsquad-esque hunters could be kind of neat for a small chapter in any given chronicle.

>>50357943
Or the Phillipino Mayor is really fighting a war against vampires and he just handwaives it as a Zero Tolerance drug policy.

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>>50357961
Taking real-life conflicts/issues/whatever and making them WoD related is perhaps one of my favourite things. It makes the conspiracies feel all the more real.

So far with changeling's public play-test packet I have found I liked Creating a Court of my own.
My freehold is pretty awesome all based on tall tales and folk legends. I founded a court based on the Sheriff of Nottingham. Sadly our approach is Huntsmen as Robinhood...

We actually played out my escape and used that to determine my Seeming which was fun. Because I was organizing and helping everyone else escape I became a Fairest, and because I was enforcing my master's will, ensuring the safety of his trade routes, and keeping out poachers I was made into a dragon.

It's been rather fun to play. What have you all liked about the new changeling?

>>50357961
There have been various real-world riots in poorer countries because of perceived vampire activity. Blood banks that pay cash for donations that are shipped back to the states, for example. Also, PNG still has a problem with citizens executing each other in extrajudicial circumstances because Witches.

>>50357120
>>50357122
Which book?

>>50358251
Should be in the core rulebook of any given line. Vampire Revised had it in Chapter Six - Systems and Drama.

>>50358272
I think it's one of the things they inexplicably left out of 2e books.

>>50358695
That's a pretty big fuckup. Someone said it wasn't the editor who was responsible for all this ridiculous shit but the project director - whatever, someone should have fucking caught it, and the fact that books have gone to print looking like wordy, badly laid out and erroneous scrapbooks should have seen *someone* blackballed from ever working in the industry again.

>>50358965
One of the consistent characteristics of WoD products is those instances of horrible editing. One might be tempted to say that WoD is what all of the blackballed editors work on.

>>50354689
>Also, is the Western Path of Paradox still a thing in V20?

Yup, and almost universally hated by the Ravnos and anyone who wants to uphold the Masquerade.

>>50357548
Tell me about the death squads anon.

Can you hear them now? Are they with you now? What are they saying?

>>50358965
There's a bunch of stuff from 1e core they didn't include in the update like fatigue.

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>Most hilarious feeding restrictions for a Ventrue

>>50360067

>>50344465

>>50359092
actually.... yeah, you're right.
think back to the 90's....
>errata from books posted to WW's website instead of making corrected reprints
>infamous "turn to page XX" misprints
>OCR errors
>contradiction
>redundancy
>hit and miss art direction

It's a good thing we all love the setting or those asshats would all be getting jobs in manual labour.

>>50360067
"Excuse me, have you had any dental surgery in the last 36 hours?"

Is Lief Jones the shittiest artist ever to work for White Wolf?

Or is there another, far worse artist I haven't seen yet?

>>50360067
"Why does that neonate always seem to loiter around the most isolated parts of town?"

"Apparently it has to do with his requirements for feeding. Something about a neck with a beard on it..."

>>50357613
That wasn't me. I mean, it's about Apocalypse, why would that be me?
>You mean like right now?

>>50357671
Iunno, small potatoes? This election there was a lot of talk about low voter turnout, but that's only by percentage. Literally more people than ever voted. If we had no electoral college, Hillary would have had the second most votes of any president in history (Obama getting the most votes both times). The Alt-Right have more power than some governments did in previous years. This is that whole "minorities have a voice" thing that I keep going on about whenever someone brings up the Technocracy, only, you know, the shitty kind of minority. I think it's silly to argue that nationalism's sequel is small potatoes, especially when that kind of sentiment has just fucked up two of the largest countries in the world. The war in Syria is bad, yeah, but the US and UK (and even other European countries, like Switzerland) letting Fascists into power? Even I'd have to say that wreaks of Wyrm taint.

>>50357548
>it has the byproduct of creating hate among liberals and progressives toward conservatives.
I'd argue here that hate among liberals and progressives is sliiiightly more justified, in that the conservatives actively work against certain groups of people. Enemies of the Right are people like minorities and workers and so on, while Enemies of the Left are people with power and privilege. It's much easier to become a friend of the left: All you have to do is give up power and so on, while to become a friend of the right you'd need to sell out your own (see how the Alt-Right props up people like Milo and Base Mom). You get to be trotted out as "see, we work with minorities [that know their place]", like Tila Tequila just today.
Philosophy Tube did a good video on it, focusing on the philosophy of a Nazi and a Black Panther.
https://youtu.be/undefined

>>50360473
>He thinks America is in danger of a coup
I think not

>>50360473
>He thinks Trump is a fascist
Someone knows nothing about Fascism.

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>>50357727
>>50357803
>>50359914
Those groups don't have a significant voice both on the internet and in the political parties of the two major countries in the world.
I mean, we're talking about Wyrm corruption here. Sure, the Wyrm is probably behind nutso militia groups, but it's going to get further by pretty looking internet trolls. Also frankly White Wolf would probably say a lot of the extremist leftist groups are good guys. After all, they made a game about playing ELF.

>>50360513
In "danger"? We voted for them.
At least in the UK they went "oh shit, we don't want responsibility for this shit!"
Frankly, I'd like if the US had a coup. Let's *actually* drain that swamp I keep hearing so much about.

>>50357548
You mentioned the NRA, but frankly I don't think any real life corporation fits with being directly in league with the Wyrm. The Wyrm is all bad guys who loot and plunder, sure, but they also pollute for no reason and intentionally try to fuck people over as their primary goal. The NRA is shitty and actually against the people they claim to be defending, but they work for the gun manufacturers, not The Wyrm.

Apocalypse's main failing to me--even in being about playing magical ELF--is that it simplifies the problems of Capitalism as being intentionally evil done in the name of a specific entity. As opposed to, you know, the inherent problems with a system built on self-interest. No one pollutes to serve the Wyrm, they pollute in an effort to line their pockets. This is why you get so many conspiracy theories about people like Soros and other liberal rich people trying to undermine western values. They're still capitalists, but they know that anarcho-capitalist thought ends up with Capitalism eating itself. Frankly, that's more friend to the Conservatives than they'd think.
But in Apocalypse, any liberal who's rich and fighting Capitalism is probably trying to overthrow the Wyrm and secretly Kin or Werewolf (Lodge of Garm?).

>>50360608
Anon Alt-Right is fucking democratic conservatism. That is like, the least threatening thing next to democratic centrism.

You're talking about Alt-Righters like they're going to form fucking Fascist Deathsquads.

It's been a while for me. Since when are the OP forums so quiet?

>>50360622
This I know people who are pretty right wing, but they dont want to kill people. Crazy people kill people.

>>50360608
>but they work for the gun manufacturers

>the military complex
You can make the argument that the military complex does further the wyrm's agenda of general destruction and chaos in the world. not to mention the NRA squashes research into itsown guns violence.

Generally you're correct thou. I like to play it that the wyrm / spirits generally backs what good for it, without outright controlling it. So you have ignorant mortals being greedy gits, and to their view point it just makes total sense. And the PCs have got to go through all the trouble of dismantling the monster.

>>50360622
>alt right propagates an environment of hate
>People hate enough to start acting on hate
>provide bullshit propaganda
>ProLife nuts jobs attack Planned ParnetHood

Crazy people are Crazy but we really shouldn't be enabling them to be crazy

>>50360622
One poster on /pol/ lamented that Trump wasn't going to give them permission to "cleanse the country".

That sounds like Fascist Deathsquad talk to me, anon.

About the funniest thing, though, is the fact that Trump is now systematically distancing himself from the Alt-Right and breaking every promise he made in the run-in, BEFORE he even gets sworn in. The butthurt is increasing, fast.

>>50360700
>Implying everyone on /pol/ isn't taking the piss

>>50360700
>breaking every promise he made in the run-in
Yeah it's fucking hilarious. He's a lazy git and wouldn't fight for anything, people expecting otherwise clearly never looked at their candidate's history. So pretty much the establishment is running the show, because he has no clear plan and never did

>>50360622
>>50360632
>This I know people who are pretty right wing, but they dont want to kill people. Crazy people kill people.
Well it's almost as if we're talking about people who literally advocate killing people and read Neonazi propaganda like The Daily Stormer and Breitbart.

>>50360657
I mean, the military industrial complex would definitely be a thing that is corrupted by the Wyrm, but my point is that Apocalypse presents this as a great big conspiracy.
The problem with conspiracies is that they're simple.
People aren't doing shitty things because they worship evil, and the world's shittiness isn't due to everyone getting together and plotting. People are just shitty and shittiness gets compounded. That's why "regressives" call out things like microaggressions: It's one bit of shittiness that's noticeable, and adds up.

Of course, there actually also *are* conspiracies, though less "here's our plan to control the world" and more "here's our plan to shut down our political opponents by creating a war on drugs" and "here's how we price gouge by dividing the nation into territories where we have de facto monopolies".

>>50360622
>>50360683
Southern Poverty Law Center has it up to 700+ post-election hate crimes.

>>50360700
>>50360723
Not the first time a daddy didn't love them. Unfortunately a lot of what he's set to do on day one is still pretty fucking terrible. First Amendment Defense Act is a "religious freedom" act that allows discrimination of gays. His whole planned administration are shitty people (primarily towards gays, though they're bad for anyone who's not straight/white/cis/male). It's certainly not looking good.

>>50360716
>Implying they are
Pretending they're just trolls ignores the real harm that's been caused. This is what I meant above when I said there are just shitty people being shitty.
https://storify.com/djmeph/the-alt-right-hide-their-numbers-b
I really need to put this into an image...

>>50360809
>breitbart
>neonazi
Pick one

>>50360825
>it's not the same choice?

>>50360236

Ron "whats a spine?" Spencer

>>50360825
Fuck I wish I could remember that youtube video or whatever showing off how Breitbart has more sensationalist headlines than The Daily Stormer.

>>50360891
Sensationalism is shitty but isn't racist.

>>50360891
>sensationalist
sensationalism sells newspapers

>>50360909
>>50360902
... you're right, having the same slant (but more sensational) as an admitted Neonazi website is totally not Neonazi.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/15/can-you-name-one-white-nationalist-article-at-breitbart-challenge-accepted/

>>50360978
i dont see how any of those articles are racist.

>>50360700
And many more leftists cried after elections that Trump should be killed, and called for revolution... That sounds much more deathsquaddish to me.

>>50360809
>Southern Poverty Law Center has it up to 700+ post-election hate crimes.
According to SPLC is calling someone faggot hate crime. But in reality, there really isn't any surge of hate crimes if you don't count false reports.
https://reason.com/blog/2016/11/18/election-hate-crimes-hoaxes-hyperbole
https://reason.com/blog/2016/11/11/election-night-hijab-attack-false

>Not the first time a daddy didn't love them. Unfortunately a lot of what he's set to do on day one is still pretty fucking terrible. First Amendment Defense Act is a "religious freedom" act that allows discrimination of gays. His whole planned administration are shitty people (primarily towards gays, though they're bad for anyone who's not straight/white/cis/male). It's certainly not looking good.
I love how it's really baaaad to discriminate against gay people but perfectly ok to discriminate against conservatives.

>>50360978
Problem is that alt-right is like Anonymous, anyone can claim to be part of it. Calling every alt-righter racist because some of them are is like calling BLM cop killing advocacy group because some of them do that.

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>>50361065
>According to SPLC is calling someone faggot hate crime. But in reality, there really isn't any surge of hate crimes if you don't count false reports.
>https://reason.com/blog/2016/11/18/election-hate-crimes-hoaxes-hyperbole
>https://reason.com/blog/2016/11/11/election-night-hijab-attack-false

>blogs are a reliable source of information but nonprofit legal advocacy organizations aren't

>>50361111
Well the Hijab attack was False. The lady admitted it. And the police when thoroughly investigating these claims are finding some false. Like that gay kid that apparently got beat up and was bleeding all over. Turns out he was lying too.

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>>50361126
>minor anecdotal evidence out weighs hard statics

>>50361065
>Citing Libertarians
Hate crimes spiked. Arguing that it doesn't count because "well, no one got *hurt* or anything" is not helpful.

>I love how it's really baaaad to discriminate against gay people but perfectly ok to discriminate against conservatives.
It's almost like one of those things is an inherent trait and the other is attitudes and beliefs, many of which are harmful to a multitude of demographics if implemented.

>Problem is that alt-right is like Anonymous, anyone can claim to be part of it. Calling every alt-righter racist because some of them are is like calling BLM cop killing advocacy group because some of them do that.
Except that both of those groups have very notable platforms. Yes, anyone can say they're Alt-Right. I could say that I'm a conservative. But the literal platform of the Alt-Right is built on Nationalism and bigotry and exclusionary identity politics. Don't give me this "those actions don't truly reflect ̶G̶a̶m̶e̶r̶g̶a̶t̶e̶ the Alt-Right" bullshit when the places that the Alt-Right organizes on and is supported by have those beliefs.

>>50361126
And I'm sure a few false reports is more than enough for you to dismiss the whole thing.

>>50361111
What the hell is that thing?

>>50361147
>And I'm sure a few false reports is more than enough for you to dismiss the whole thing.
No, just saying its healthy to be a little skepticle and not believe everything you read. Let the police do their jobs.

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>>50361160
>Let the police do their jobs.
... harass minorities, assault protestors, and cover up corruption?

>>50360809
>https://storify.com/djmeph/the-alt-right-hide-their-numbers-b

Yeah, it's all true. I abandoned 420chan after five years of use because the entire site had become infested with alt-right wierdos that seriously argue that the wage gap is a feminist conspiracy to oppress men and make them the new weaker sex. Rants about "Alphas" and "Betas" gradually gave way to posts about "women are subhuman" and "redpill me on the globalist conspiracy of the establishment". Criticisms of Hilary were never based on policy, nor on the obvious and glaring contradictions between what she said and what she did, but rather that she was a woman running on "jew dollars".

>>50360887
I dunno, his Fera were always on point.

>>50361065
>And many more leftists cried after elections that Trump should be killed

Pffft, please. All I saw were angry protesters saying "this man doesn't speak for me" and crying young girls. Trump was the one boasting he could shoot someone on the street and not be touched, Trump was the one implying gun owners could "deal with Clinton" if she won.

Nice blinkers, by the way, did you get them on sale from a farrier?

>>50361274
>Criticisms of Hilary were never based on policy
That trend really pisses me off more than it should. Like, I'll admit I was borderline shilling for Hillary for a while, but there are several valid criticisms of her neoliberal corporatist policies and the way that the DNC is essentially center right. But no, it's all emails and conspiracy theories *desperate* to say that she's at the head of or close to a pedophile ring. No matter what those shills at Snopes say.

>>50361291
It's also worth noting that Trump's policies are bad for quite a lot of people.
"You should be killed for an inherent quality you possess that you had no control over" is not comparable with "kill him for the things he says and does that negatively affect people".
I don't agree with killing, but no fucking shit people were saying that when he surrounds himself with hatemongers and takes pages from the playbooks of fascists.

>>50361111
If you didn't notice, everything in those "blogs" was sourced so it has definitely more merit that wild claims of SPLC about hate "crimes" which actually aren't even crimes most of the time. Plus little detail that those hate crimes go both way. Remember that boy beaten up for voting Trump in mock up election? Or that guy beaten up for being "white boy Trump supporter"?

>>50361140
>hard statistics
Lmao. Citing from SPLC article:
"The SPLC collected reports from news articles, social media, and direct submissions from the #ReportHate intake page. The SPLC made efforts to verify each report but many included in the count remain anecdotal."
If they used numbers from police, than we could talk.

>>50361147
>Hate crimes spiked.
Above.
>It's almost like one of those things is an inherent trait and the other is attitudes and beliefs, many of which are harmful to a multitude of demographics if implemented.
It's funny how some people have other pinion about these things, both the fact whether being gay is inherent trait or not, and if gaays pose danger for society.

Everything is based on identity politics nowadays in Burgerstan. And those politics are pretty exclusionary in itself - if you are privileged your opinion doesn't count.
>Don't give me this "those actions don't truly reflect ̶G̶a̶m̶e̶r̶g̶a̶t̶e̶ the Alt-Right" bullshit when the places that the Alt-Right organizes on and is supported by have those beliefs.
Ah, that "Breitbart is racist and white-nationalist again". Do you have any serious source for this claim? And please not that blog post from washington post again, fact that it's on washington post domain doesn't make it any less blog post - no editorial control, just opinions...

>>50361291
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3924052/Twitter-erupts-calls-Donald-Trump-assassinated-elected-president-United-States.html

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>>50361160
>just saying its healthy to be a little skepticle and not believe everything you read.
Like, say, the blogs you posted links to?

>>50361386
I didn't post any blogs

I'm sure you guys enjoy talking about Trump's followers being literal brownshirts, but could we talk a bit about the Ordo Dracul? What is their point as a covenant? They're just weird scientists and sorcerors. I get why the Sanctum and the Circle get involved on vampire politics, but these guys would probably be Invictus or Carthian occultists.

>>50361368
>It's funny how some people have other pinion about these things, both the fact whether being gay is inherent trait or not, and if gaays pose danger for society.

Opinions are opinions, nothing more. Especially when said opinions have absolutely no basis in science or fact. You might as well have said "well some people think the earth is flat, and I, a perfectly normal person who is totally not shilling for the Alt-Right, think that is just fine." Overwhelmingly, the proof is there that sexual preferences are innate, cannot be altered or chosen and will fuck you up if you try. Your shallow and pathetic implication that gays are some kind of "pink menace" is a relic thoughtbubble from my childhood. Are you going to "redpill" me on the "Gay Agenda" now?

>Ah, that "Breitbart is racist and white-nationalist again". Do you have any serious source for this claim?

Have you ever actually read Breitbart?

>"As I understand, the alt-right want America and our citizens put first — nationalism over globalism and mass immigration. They mock political correctness and the farcical notion of “racism.” And they fight back against the attack on whites and men.

>"I agree with those things. If whites (and men) continue their decline, as blacks did the past 60 years, it’s “Adios, America.” (Ann Coulter is 100% right.)"

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/08/31/rev-jesse-lee-peterson-conservatives-alt-right-unite-defeat-evil/

>>50361420
>What is their point as a covenant?
Redefine the Vampiric Condition.

>>50361368
>twitter trolls want Trump dead!

Sorry, how is that different from what you were saying about a few trolls being harmless? Is a threat only a threat when it's pointed at a bright orange steak salesman?

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>>50361391
That other guy did, so I'll take your advice and take the anecdotal and probably bullshit "Evidence" with a grain of salt over hard statistics from the FBI showing the amount of hate crimes occuring in 2014 alone, before all this shit blew up.

This is what Breitbart has to say about racism;
>Molyneux and I discussed the reality that “racism” does not exist, the destruction that anger causes, and the desperate need for fathers and forgiveness.

This despite the overwhelming body of racially motivated attacks registered by the most prominent law enforcement group in the continental US.

>>50361456
I get that. I mean politically and socially. All they have is their philosophy.

>>50361528
Not too well versed in the Vampire Covenants unfortunately.
Would they just not care so long as they're permitted to do what they want?
And a more rigid and unchanging political landscape is more suitable for long term plans, thus suggesting some support for the Invictus?

>>50361547
It just seems weird for me to have them as covenant if they don't really have a political goal. They'd work better as a cult or secret society of sorts.

>>50361439
>gays
Too bad science actually doesn't really know much what does cause "being gay". It definitely isn't genetic, twin studies show that. And if sexuality is fluid and relative as many people claim (mostly those from your side of political spectrum), how can you call it inherent?

>Have you ever actually read Breitbart?
Yes, a bit. I don't like the sensationalism, same as anon above. Generally I would say it's same as huffpost only opposite on ideological spectrum.

I really don't know what you meant by those citations, there isn't anything racist or white nationalist in them. First one is about nationalism, not white nationalism. Fighting back against attacks on whites and man has same merit as fighting back against attacks on blacks and women. Second speculates about decline of white demographic and compares to decline of blacks (that is arguable, but even some blacks would agree with that eg. Thomas Sowell).

>>50361457
I didn't say anything about few trolls being harmless. And considering FBI started investigations because some of those tweets and some of their authors were detained because of them, it's arguable whether they can be considered harmless.

>>50361481
Statistic from 2014 is perfect argument for spike of hate crimes after elections, thank you anon.

>>50361420
They are basically transhumanist or rather transvampirists. And that stuff isn't exactly cheap. They need tons of resources while at the same time some of the other factions consider those things bad. Lancea thinks vampires are damned and overcoming those banes would destroy their teachings. Circle thinks that vampires should give in to beast inside isn't compatible with Ordo trying to get control over beast. And they want to get involved with neither Invictus nor Carthians because they don't want to get bossed around.

>>50361368
>It's funny how some people have other pinion about these things, both the fact whether being gay is inherent trait or not, and if gaays pose danger for society.
Here's the thing, though: "It's just an opinion" is not equivalent to facts, and being gay isn't a choice, and they're not posing a danger to society. Meanwhile, society poses quite a danger to them.
>Ah, that "Breitbart is racist and white-nationalist again". Do you have any serious source for this claim?
Literally Breitbart itself?
I mean, if you don't think they're racist, then whatever, nothing I say will prove otherwise. I dropped that argument because "I don't see anything racist about these obviously racist headlines" isn't a discussion I want to bother with. Even I know that would be pointless as shit.

Also, everything is based on identity politics anywhere. You don't think the UK's nationalism is also identity politics? Politics are identity politics. It's all about identity.
And it's not that if you're privileged your opinion doesn't count. It's that if you're privileged, your opinion is inherently going to be less informed than that of someone who experiences actual disenfranchisement. And just to clear things up before someone googles that word and tells me "well ackshully gays can vote", I mean the other definitions, focusing on the lack of social or political power and agency.

>>50361391
You do know Reason.com is a blog, right?

>>50361420
Your problem is seeing Covenants as inherently being political first and foremost. The Ordo are essentially apolitical, but you still need some kind of political power to be able to *do* your freakish grotesque experimentation. Hard to do your science in peace when you can't get a good domain or hunting ground, or the Lance considers you a heretic.

>>50361632
Anon, if you don't understand things, don't talk about them. Please stop trying to explain gays when you don't understand sexuality, or, in fact, the rhetoric of the left. Even then, there's more to "it's not a choice" than genetics, and science has thoroughly debunked "being gay is a lifestyle choice".

>Fighting back against attacks on whites and man has same merit as fighting back against attacks on blacks and women.
Except that white men aren't actually under any real threat. Just because your ears are too damage from listening to dogwhistles doesn't mean Breitbart isn't racist and nationalist. It's a website for the new face of Nazism.

>>50361822
>dogwhistles
i.e. "Anything our political opponents say is actually racist, no matter how non-racist it is. Believe us!"

>>50361842
>Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."
Yeah, 'cause politicians and pundits never ever couch their unsavoury beliefs in more socially acceptable terms.

>"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities, we could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
Never ever.

And let's be honest here, Breitbart's whistle isn't even for fucking dogs. They're barely hiding it when they call people "renegade Jew" and scaremonger about feminists and immigrants and blacks and how poor poor whitey is discriminated against.

>>50361790
>Here's the thing, though: "It's just an opinion" is not equivalent to facts, and being gay isn't a choice, and they're not posing a danger to society.
Firstly, unfortunately there aren't really any "facts". Same things could be said about being conservative. Some people just can't help themselves but be conservative and in spite of liberal media shouts, conservative people don't pose danger to society. And yet you consider discrimination of gays and conservatives totally different.
>Breitbart
Please bear with me and try to explain me what exactly was racist there, I want genuinely want to know.

>>50361790
>You do know Reason.com is a blog, right?
He didn't post them, I did.
And Reason isn't blog, it's libertarian magazine, with editorial control etc. Some of their authors also have blogs on their domain, similarly like some washington post authors have on washington post domain (that washington post article link above was actually blog post too).

>>50361822
>Anon, if you don't understand things, don't talk about them. Please stop trying to explain gays when you don't understand sexuality, or, in fact, the rhetoric of the left.
Btw. I know about gay man who claims that being gay is his choice. And considering that quite a few straight men come out of jail gay, it isn't outlandish to think that sexual preferences can be changed.
I don't need to understand leftist rhetoric to call BS on it.
>science has thoroughly debunked "being gay is a lifestyle choice"
study link? please impacted journals only
>Except that white men aren't actually under any real threat. (...)
That's just your opinion. Also I didn't write about white men, I wrote about white and men. Whites are discriminated against by affirmative action (college applications anyone?), men in divorce courts when awarding custody. And when white man is beaten up and called "white boy Trump supporter" I would consider it attack on white male too.

>>50361632
>Too bad science actually doesn't really know much what does cause "being gay". It definitely isn't genetic, twin studies show that. And if sexuality is fluid and relative as many people claim (mostly those from your side of political spectrum), how can you call it inherent?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1i6qhp_undercover-doctor-cure-me-i-m-gay_shortfilms

This documentary was made by Channel 4 some time ago. The doctor from Embrassing Bodies goes along to various "gay cure" hucksters after having his baseline reaction to stimuli measured (cord around the cock, measures a twitch even if you don't realise you're aroused) to a variety of footage; clouds, gay porn, straight porn. AFTER he does the cures, he is retested, and his reaction to hetero stimuli has gone DOWN. He is now more aroused by FOOTAGE OF CLOUDS than dick in pussy action. The documentary doesn't address what makes him gay, that's beyond it's scope, but it proves that it isn't malleable enough to be "reconfigured" the way Pence believes.

My hypothesis is that the "fluid" appearance of sexuality can be explained by varying degrees of bisexuality, like the Kinsey scale, instead of binary orientation models. Society has trouble accepting bisexuality - people say "such and such turned gay" or "that lesbian got converted" and then get buttfrustrated when they go back to their previous shenanigans - so the claim of fluidity seems to be an attempt to resolve this rather than accept the fact that there's a little gay in the straightest of us and a little straight in the gayest of us. Check this article, first line;
>Straight men are as aroused by penises as homosexuals
http://www.baka.com.au/technology/technology-news/our-sexual-desires-exposed-by-neuroscientists-porn-study-20110621-1gcol.html

>>50361632
>Statistic from 2014 is perfect argument for spike of hate crimes after elections, thank you anon.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/21/anti-muslim-assaults-reach-911-era-levels-fbi-data-show/

...or you can swallow the blue pill, wake up in your bed tomorrow and believe whatever you want to believe.

>>50361790
>I mean the other definitions, focusing on the lack of social or political power and agency.

....and the fact that no VeePee ever ran with a platform of converting the straights into sizequeens at the local gaybar. This cannot be overstated.

>>50362052
>I know about gay man who claims that being gay is his choice.

Wow! How amazing! I know about a schizophrenic man who claims he has a chip in his brain plugging him into a global communications satellite for the rich and famous, and the Queen Mother keeps promising to send him $500 AUD and an ounce of high quality cannabis!

I guess we should just totally suspend all scientific inquiry because one guy had an opinion, amirite?

>>50362052
>Btw. I know about gay man who claims that being gay is his choice. And considering that quite a few straight men come out of jail gay, it isn't outlandish to think that sexual preferences can be changed.
>Firstly, unfortunately there aren't really any "facts".
http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html
>conservative people don't pose danger to society
If you don't consider "want to criminalize my existence" and "support fraudulent and harmful medical practices to cure my existence" harmful. Or discrimination. Do I need to bring up statistics about Reagan's HIV policies and the harm they caused? Do you want to ask a black man in prison for an ounce of pot what he thinks of the conservative War on Drugs?

And no, it is not my fucking opinion that white men aren't under attack. They are disproportionately the most powerful group in the world, and in particular this country.
>Whites are discriminated against by affirmative action (college applications anyone?)
Literally not a fucking thing that happens. In fact, "affirmative action" as you're defining it hasn't existed since fucking 1996.
>Custody
The majority of custody cases are decided outside of court, and half of the fathers don't want custody. I don't actually have the numbers on hand, but they're in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt7rKNV9qqA

>>50362086
Isn't it funny that in a movie by two transwomen the Red Pill is a black man and a woman showing a white man that everything he knows is wrong, but in the alt-right, the Red Pill is having it "revealed" that there's a feminist conspiracy to cuck all the white men?

>>50362099
wut

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>>50362052
>Whites are discriminated against

I'm sure since being born into your comfortable white home you have known only the harsh jackboot of oppression from our coloured overlords and their legions of cross-burning queers, anon

>>50362143
>>conservative people don't pose danger to society
>If you don't consider "want to criminalize my existence" and "support fraudulent and harmful medical practices to cure my existence" harmful. Or discrimination. Do I need to bring up statistics about Reagan's HIV policies and the harm they caused? Do you want to ask a black man in prison for an ounce of pot what he thinks of the conservative War on Drugs?

Perhaps we should also go ask the people on disappearing Pacific Island Nations how they feel about Conservative thinktanks cheering on global warming as a good thing? Or the women who are facing losing control over their own reproduction and being forced to carry children to term that they neither wanted nor asked for - defined as torture under international obligations signed by western countries - because Conservatives believe rapist semen is magical?

>>50362166
How about that time the Zodiac Killer shut down the government because Jaysus told him to?

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>>50362052
>in spite of liberal media shouts, conservative people don't pose danger to society

>>50362145
Not so much oppression as violence, like when they killed my parents and raped my sister on the farm when I was 8 my aunt brought me to America and.things have been better.

>>50362403
>they killed my parents and raped my sister on the farm when I was 8
>THANKS OBAMA

Look, I don't care what African shithole your ancestors foolishly decided to move to, but a murder-rape-burglary occurring in a third world country has nothing to do with whites being "discriminated against by affirmative action"

>>50362403
>>50362429
Also thanks for proving his point that you've experienced nothing similar since coming to America. Keep the race war rhetoric for countries with ongoing genocides.

>>50357548
i hope you're happy with how you derailed the thread

>>50362598
damn straight he did

When will Aspel learn not to bring up politics, they consistently just derail threads because of it. We seriously need mods to ban people that talk off topic.

>>50362086
Brilliant improvement, this time it's statistic from 2015. Carry on and maybe we will get somewhere.

>>50362130
Eh. I was too lazy to search it, but if you insist. https://vimeo.com/19869748
You can find exact passage yourself.
In return I expect source for your claim.

>>50362143
>http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html
>Most scientists would disagree
>Years of research suggest that
Wow, that's real evidence right there, thank you anon.
>"want to criminalize my existence"
wut?
>"support fraudulent and harmful medical practices to cure my existence"
How does that support actually harm you?
>discrimation
You mean discrimination against conservatives? ;-)
>Reagan's HIV policies and the harm they caused?
You mean problems caused by promiscuity?
>War on Drugs
Yeah, I admit american conservatives are pretty retarded in this, but it's not like it's only conservatives' fault.
>They are disproportionately the most powerful group in the world, and in particular this country.
Funny, same argument use stormfronters against Jews.
>Literally not a fucking thing that happens. In fact, "affirmative action" as you're defining it hasn't existed since fucking 1996.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States#Bias_against_Asians_and_whites
>The majority of custody cases are decided outside of court, and half of the fathers don't want custody. I don't actually have the numbers on hand, but they're in this video.
If you watched it, you can see that mothers really are awarded custody much more often. And that fact may be another factor why fathers don't even try to get custody considering likelihood of protracted long and expensive legal battle which they are likely to use.
also another example of discrimination against men
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002

>>50362403
Shame they missed you, then.

>>50362646
I'm all for banning Aspel, so long as the shitheads on the other side get the banhammer upside their faces too.

>>50362074
You like tangents, don't you. The point of conversation if there is qualitative difference between discrimination on basis of sexuality and political opinions. Anon claimed that it's like totally different because of one being inborn, I consider that merely a possibility.
>http://www.baka.com.au/technology/technology-news/our-sexual-desires-exposed-by-neuroscientists-porn-study-20110621-1gcol.html
404

>>50362145
I'm from pretty homogeneous eastern european country, anon. I'm quite sure that I don't have any privilege for being white. And considering our salaries etc., we are far from being privileged.

>>50362166
>people on disappearing Pacific Island Nations how they feel about Conservative thinktanks cheering on global warming as a good thing?
Right? It's much more fault of those damn conservative thinktanks, not of China the biggest polluter in the world, who is incidentally leftist.
>Conservatives believe rapist semen is magical
It's just few extremists, everywhere are extremists. Some lefties even believe all white men should die.

>>50362232
Communist detected. And as eastern european from former communist country, boy I hate communists.

>>50362654
>expensive legal battle which they are likely to use
likely to lose, dammit

>>50362679
Oh totally anyone that replies to aspels shitposting deserve what they get as well. It just seems that most of the time Aspel starts it.

>>50362646
The combination of gothic and punk lifestyles work together to encourage creativity and imagination. They avoid the normalcy of the status quo and the mundane, which suffocates imagination. For the Gothic-Punk way of life, emotions rule actions and passion overrides logic and reason.

It is impossible to play a game that is a reflection of this world, without reflecting on this world. Through rhetoric and debate we sharpen our personalised vision of the world of darkness.


If you don't like that, maybe the /wodg/ isn't the place for you, and you should go back to your safe space and go fetal for a few hours, then play something nice and fluffy like TOON.

>>50362847
Thankfully gothic and punk aren't a vital part of CofD anymore.

>>50362847
But thats not what you do, whenever you hide behind the mask of
>But muh in game parallels!
You start to argue with people about real life politics. If you stuck to in game politics then most of this shit that derails threads wouldn't happen.
I am on /tg/ and want to talk about games. I dont want this thread to turn into /pol/
Fuck me I think this is the only general on the entire board that gets this bad.

>>50362687
>Right? It's much more fault of those damn conservative thinktanks, not of China the biggest polluter in the world, who is incidentally leftist.

The fact that China contributes more to climate change and pollution than the US does not in any way justify doing the same, it's like saying it's okay killing a million jews because the nazis killed six

And China is not leftist, it's an oligarchy disguised as communism, just like the US has become while pretending to be capitalist

But I digress, hurting the environment isn't okay just because "durr China"

>>50362847
No. We like /wodg/, Aspel.

We just don't fucking like YOU.

>>50362885
Sion stuff gets this bad when he sticks his stupid, fat face into it.

Basically Aspel = thread going to dogshit. Report him where he pops up.

>>50362923
And whoever responds.

>>50362957
If they respond in anything that isn't an insult and dismissal, at least.

"Fuck off shithead" is acceptable when paired with a report. Actually engaging the subhuman pile of filth isn't.

A single reply telling him you'll ignore him from there on out is also ok, as it drives the bitch nuts.

Well. This thread went places.

So, the Mummy novel. I'm three chapters in. It's all right. The Heretic isn't directly involved for now, so that's nice. Also it reminds me that "The Roller" might be one of the lamest antagonist names in the line.

>>50362654
>Brilliant improvement, this time it's statistic from 2015. Carry on and maybe we will get somewhere
Read the article, noob. 2016 figures are still being compiled by the FBI. Sources in article backup the exact source you pooh-pooh'd earlier. Or would that knock over your fragile ego?
>In return I expect source for your claim.
Go to Stainforth Court, Tasmania. Ask for Liam. You'll know you've found him because his first question is "how ya goin man?" and no matter what your response, his next question will be "got any weed?". Unlike you, I actually know the man in question.
>How does that support actually harm you?
If you knew anything about Conversion Therapy you wouldn't have to ask that question. Your ignorance is astounding, even for an American.

Imagine being jacked full of a drug to make you shit yourself and puke until your throat tears and all your gagging only produces frothy blood. As you sit there hugging a bucket, a series of pornographic images are projected onto a wall, and a tape plays telling you that you are disgusting, you are scum, no-one will ever love you, everything about you is diseased and abhorrent. This continues for a gruelling 72 hours or so. If you don't punch the doctor in the neck and walk out, they'll make you fuck someone you're not even physically attracted to just because they have a vagina.

This practice led to an entire generation of repressed, suicidal, self-loathing gay men whose only crime was wanting to no longer be on the outside of society looking in.

But then, you'd know that if you bothered to watch the Channel 4 documentary mentioned above.

>gay promiscuity causes AIDS

keep believing in unicorns, maybe it will magically protect you from HIV-infected pussy.
https://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/statistics/
> Diagnoses among women are primarily attributed to heterosexual contact (87%, or 7,242) or injection drug use (13%, or 1,045).

>>50357943
>>50357961
>>50358051
>>50358088
All this shit is cool Aspel, not whatever the fuck you do.

>>50362687
>I'm from pretty homogeneous eastern european country, anon. I'm quite sure that I don't have any privilege for being white.

Oh yeah? How are Syrians treated there? About as well as everywhere else in Europe? Funny thing, they look kind of brown to me...

>>50363015
None of that was me, Sherlock.

>>50363042
I know it wasnt you, because those posts are actually good and game relevant.

And with this post, I do toss this flaming pile of shit into the abyss, amen.

>>50356943
No, the Conditional Trigger. To make spells START at a specific moment.

It was a thing in 1e, and it is mentioned in two places. I just can't find it.

>>50363001
>pooh-pooh'd earlier
Quoting source is pooh-poohing now? Wew, lad.
Why don't you look SPLC's methodology yourself?
>Liam
Thanks, now we are even. I didn't claim to know him personally. I wrote that I know about such gay.
>If you knew anything about Conversion Therapy you wouldn't have to ask that question. Your ignorance is astounding, even for an American.
I'm not aware of that therapy being forced on anyone and I'm also not an American.
>gay promiscuity causes AIDS
I didn't say anything about gay promiscuity, faggot. Just promiscuity in general.

>>50363021
They don't like immigrating to us because of low welfare payments. Over half of ones that came here left for Germany at earliest opportunity. I'm not even joking.

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Does anybody else think there should be a trickster archetype hunger available to Beasts? Im trying to make a Beast based on Coyote from Gunnerkrigg Court and im having a hard time doing so.
On mobile, have hedgehog

>>50363685
>On mobile, have hedgehog

Why are you carrying around pictures of blurry hedgehogs?

Are you an Angel?

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>>50363699
Just a student , and a hedgehog enthusiast

>>50363685

You could probably peg Coyote as having a Hunger for Secrets or a Hunger for Ruin. I'd lean towards the latter, with the Ruin specifically be tricks that destroy things.

>>50363937
I went with Ravager, for hunger of ruin. Seemed to make the most sense

>>50362646
>>50362691
>>50362915
>>50362923
>>50362988
>>50363042
>>50363050
That wasn't even me. Also, no, replying to say "fuck off shithead" (or even bitching like that to begin with) isn't making the thread better.

>>50362654
So you're willing to ignore scientists and citations, but you'll trust a random guy on Vimeo?
>wut?
William Pryor thinks it should be okay to criminalize homosexuality. He also wants to ignore Lawrence v Texas.
I was going to answer everything individually, but you're completely unable to empathize with other human beings if you don't understand how the policies I'm complaining about are harmful. The Wikipedia article you link doesn't actually show a bias against whites, and all the data I'm finding elsewhere says whites are accepted the most, Asians second most, and anyone who's not Asian/Jewish/White makes up less than the 17% that would statistically represent the rest of the country.

But keep telling us how you're so oppressed.
And you're right, though, men are awarded custody less often in the *very small* amount of cases that are decided by the court. That is often treated as *the* talking point for MRAs, as if it was something happening to literally every man.
Meanwhile, of course, it's currently women leading the charge against things like child support or alimony.

>>50362687
>It's just few extremists, everywhere are extremists.
Literally their fucking platform. If it's "just a few extremists", they're leading the GOP, so that argument means shit.

>>50362911
America doesn't pretend to be capitalist, it is capitalist. It should stop being, though. But what do I know, obviously I'm a Tankie, since only Soviet communism and American Capitalism exist.

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>>50363685
Coyote is great.

>>50364690
>But what do I know, obviously I'm a Tankie, since only Soviet communism and American Capitalism exist.

As long as you recognize it and dont lie to yourself.

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>>50361547
AS long as they get what they want, The Order sides with the status quo. At any point the status quo becomes inconvenient to their research, they'll break and start backing the rebels, who promise to let them take what they want. They can create an interesting tipping point, if the establishment insistently blocks their research and they can't secures what they want without tipping their hand.

>>50364774
>At any point the status quo becomes inconvenient to their research, they'll break and start backing the rebels, who promise to let them take what they want.

HERESY!!!! from Lance aside what research could be oppose by the other covenants?

>>50364798
Poaching. Threatening the Masquerade. Things like that.

>>50363137

You cast Hung Spell with a Conditional Duration, and then the spell you want triggered into it. Specified event happens -> hung spell ends -> desired spell goes off.

>>50364702

Not a fan of Beast, but Coyote is a pretty great concept for someone's Horror.

>I DO NOT EXIST!

>>50364939
I was tempted to put that whole section of the chapter into a single image, but decided it would be too much work. I really need to get back to/reread Gunnerkrigg.
And I bring this up every time, but that chapter and The Stone were back to back the best chapters.