WIP - Painting/Sculpting/Converting/Johnny General

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>From the last thread
>>49745567
I have a mix of all sorts but mostly vallejo.

>>49745567
you got bad paint if its like that, gw is pretty similar to other brands, except overpriced. Vallejo, reaper, and p3 are the top ones used along with gw's. Vallejo is my personal favorite because of the dropper bottles they come with standard. But eventually you will start getting different brands until you have a huge mix from different manufactures, since some brands make paints that others don't have.

Any paint suggestions for painting Anrakyr? What blues work well for him?

>>49745970
>>49746016

How are their weathering effects? I'm not sure about them. In the past I used sand and salt for certain effects.

>>49745970
>Dat huge rack of Vallejo paints
Forgive me Lord, for I have sinned. I have coveted another's goods.

Im still confused on washes.


Am I supposed to quickly pick up the globs of water with a dry brush after I apply it, or is the model supposed to look like a dude in a water bubble until its dry?

>>49746386
it's quite alright anon. You'd only hate me more if I told you how much I paid for all of them.

>>49746613
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUQsiv41Enw

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Thoughts /tg/ ?

Slaughter priest+grey Knight truescale (?) Conversion.

Originally was just a simple body swap conversion, but after getting feedback from /tg/ the original torso I was using looked too small/chubby wo I worked on making something better looking and ended up with this. His other arm needs some work and it's gonna be holding a shield. Will most likely be using this model as counts as draigo.

Thoughts so far? Still very wip

(posted in other thread then saw this 1... WITH 0 WIP SHOTS)

>>49746690
>clip cuts to a different blood letter

I call fucking bullshit. The "just put it on" is a fucking meme so that other people's miniatures continue to look like shit.

How the fuck do I highlight white and shiny silver?

>>49746979
Never paint pure white or pure black. Always paint off-white and off-black, then use pure white / dark grey to highlight and use light grey / pure black for shadows and darklining.

>>49746979
You highlight white with pure white, while the actual white of the thing you're highlighting is either very very light beige/grey.

You highlight shiny silver with super bright, almost white, metallic.

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Probably not a very good picture, but r8 my Crusader/Sword Brother. Took me around 4-6 hours to paint, hard to tell with waiting for the layers to dry.

How does it hold up for the time invested?

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Astropath WIP!

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Since the old thread is about to die with no response:

I have my Kir Kanos ready to highlight. But I'm terrible at highlighting. I always go too broad with the highlights. How do I keep myself from doing that? This is my favorite sculpt in Imperial Assault, and I want the paint job to turn out great.

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Anyone have any good tzeentch horrors alternatives or conversions? Feel like they should be more spookier and other worldly kinda like the old models were.

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My Gobbo-centric Chaos Warband is coming along nicely. Added another pint-sized champion and a creepy, hunchback fiddler-daemon

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Finished the weapons and plates, just waiting on my uni to finish printing the wolf head

>>49747025
You spent way too much time m89

>>49747239
Be broad with the highlights on the cloak, do another thinner yet lighter one on top, then use an ink or a glaze to blend it together

>>49747764
Thanks. How would you approach the boots? And do you think the black bodysuit under the armor needs highlights?

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Anyone else who can't wait to see what the new Thousand Sons look like?

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:( I just realized that the reason all my paints are adhearing like they're washes is because of my base.


I based 8 Ig sprues with that can already. Fuck.

>>49746803
That's the same Bloodletter anon.

>>49748183
it looks like your paints are just a bit too thinned, but your primer is pretty dusty looking, you might be shit outta luck buddy

>>49748183
Also, any suggestions on the base?

>>49748188
I swear to god I've seen enough episodes of fucking Food Network to know that it's not.

>>49748255
It's got the same red smudges on the horns on both before and after, chill with the hobby conspiracy theories.

The other day someone posted a comparison of the new texture paints in a pdf, any chance someone here has it?

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working on my BFG fleets. All magnetized, i just hope the chinese resin doesnt kill me! Had a hard time applying the main colors because the paints werent sticking to the models, not sure if its the primer or mold release.

The chaos cruisers just need weapons and i need to add some contrast bits, i was thinking the command tower view ports.

The imperial cruisers i just started working on. Prow looks good enough, not looking forward to drybrushing because i have a feeling i am going to fuck it up.

Suggestions welcome

PREVIOUS THREAD MULTIPOST, sorry I don't want to spam this thread with multiple replies

>>49743785

I think the contrast is a bit too strong here. Red and blue are both primary colors and you really don't want multiple primary colors in such large amounts on a model since it'll end up color confused. Try black chest main color and the previous silver color for the shoulders since it'll be next to the helmet.

>>49742742

That's pretty good for a first mini, you'll get better at paint control over time so don't even worry about it. Just look at a lot of painting tutorials and invest in good brushes and mediums.


To crab-knight anon, you said you airbrushed white and went over that with whipped up brown ink. Which ink did you use?

>>49746791

It really could've done with a robe, imperial eagle or just a big fat inquisitorial i on the chest, it's painfully empty. Maybe make a necklace of daemon skulls or carve in some confirmed daemon prince kills, but do something with that chest.

>>49745851
Just coming back from a long absence on these threads. Whoever did the OP's gif did some fine work.

>>49747322
If you glue the heads of the plastic Pink Horrors upside down and fill the gaps with Green Stuff you get a look more similar to the old metal ones. You might have to remove some horns or cover the eyes that now protrude from their chins. Well, one some anyway. You could also cut a spare head through the jaws and glue it at the neck and chest areas on a completed Horror. With some GS work you get a small Horror bursting out of the mouth of another Horror.

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>>49746791
Seconding the idea of a robe, tabard, loin cloth, or goodies in general to make up for the huge blank chest.
Good idea though. If you manage to deal with the tiny problem it'll be great.
Pic related should have a tutorial for an open book, if you feel courageous and want your guy to look like a proper GK.

>>49748255
>cause it's a thin layer, it'll take quite a while to dry. 30 minutes should be good.
>clip cuts to 30 or so mins later when the shade has dried.

if you aren't trolling, i suggest kill yourself.
watch the video again and follow what he says. everything. even the
>shake the paint before use
>when he emphasis not get blobs or build ups of the wet shade on the model

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>>49748093
Well here's the TS sorcerer at least.

The Magnus box has THOUSAND SONS written on it, so I guess we can presum they are trying to continue what was started with Daemonkin, a.k.a CSM categorised between the deities, like how SM are sorta categorised between SW, BA, UM and DA.
So possoble well get some new Plague and Sonic Marines as well given enough time.

>>49747025

I can see you've put in effort but just all of it is off. I play BT myself so I notice issues on black color schemes better I think.

>The boltgun metals look super thick, the paint is probably clumped up. Just look at the mouth grille and the skulls on top of the devotional seals
>the edge highlights consist of one much brighter color and it's badly applied. Take a gander at how GW paints the raven guard highlights, it's excellent for BT as well. Broad dark grey highlight, smaller light grey glaze gives a much smoother result.
>mold lines
>barrel not drilled
>clumpy pure white everywhere, use an ivory over grey or bone instead for better coverage. Vallejo has a really nice ivory.
>is it even washed? I can't tell
>red has no highlights, get some wild rider red or even brighter like jokaero orange
>the black text is sloppy as fuck, invest in a set of micron ink pens but be aware that these contain a solvent that will make your paint soft so let them dry before making corrections of any kind
>robe came out pretty good but you used a LOT of wash. A little less will make the transition smoother
>missed a bunch of little things like the studs on the helmet and gorget

All in all, good effort but your results will be much better if you use mediums like galleria flow improver for a smoother coat, glaze medium or varnish to do transitions between colors, and of course, small brushes and a lot of patience.

If you reeeheeheeeeeeeally have problems painting black, you can always switch to a dark grey and instead wash it down with black wash/ink to get a more naturally shaded scheme. I personally prefer my black templars to be pitch black.

You'll get there, Battle Brother. IMPERATOR REX!

>>49749843
yeah I will, i did decide to freehand some stuff on it. like =I= symbols and similar around the armor, was also considering making them look liker unes/glow similar to space wolves, but with a bit of lightning. now I'm kinda thinking I should throw something on it. as for the belt, i have a few bits in mind of sticking there, just haven't really decided what yet. still tossing up ideas
>>49749862
I'm actually pretty average with greenstuff, but luckily I have some spare GK accesory bits from a heap i bought ages ago. just havent gone through all my bits yet to find something that looks nice overall

>>49747239

Just grab an orange that is slightly brighter than the red and do a broad highlight first, then a much brighter orange for edge highlights.

Always thin your highlight paints with a varnish or medium so your paint doesn't become watery and runs everywhere. For edge highlights, use a small brush at a 45 degree angle where just the tip touches whatever edge you want to highlight.

Most importantly, keep as little paint as possible on your brush while doing all this or it will be thick. Multiple thin passes creates automatic transitions and are easier to clean up with the varnish thinned base coat paint.

>>49748183

Dude, thin with matte varnish or glaze medium instead of water. You're basically washing it at this point.

>>49746242
They work. I prefer Ammo of Mig and AK Interactive for weathering stuff though. A bit more expensive, but worth the money.

>>49746803
You literally just put it on.. there shouldn't be a large amount of blobs.

>>49749882
There were no new Berserkers with the Kharn release so don't get hyped to much

>>49750188

Berzerkers have a plastic kit, 1k sons are metal/finecast which has been systematically replaced for 2 years now. That and there's a PLASTIC PRIMARCH coming out, you bet your ass they're doing a major chaos overhaul.

>>49750188
Well we we know for a fagt that TS are getribg a plastic release, the showed it in the Magnus video.
It can't be the Burning of prospero box sprues because this one is meant to be generic.

>>49750220
>you bet your ass they're doing a major chaos overhaul.

I really hope so, but when Kharn was announced (and with Khorne being THE fantasy chaos faction) i hoped for new berserkers and got nothing ;_;
They even went that far that they used regular plastic CSM with berserker heads on their promo pics for Kharn because the actual Berserkers look like shit these days.

>>49750223
My comment was aimed towards the Plague- and Noise marines. I don't see them getting a plastic release.

>>49750243

They're not that bad, but yeah they definitely take more work to make them look good. But again, they're getting rid of finecast since it costs too much to keep sending out replacements for everything they put out. They're literally selling 3 models for the price of one and it's hurting their reputation on top of it.

Finecast is this expensive because of all the broken shit that has to be replaced and they're STILL not making enough money on it.

>>49750252
We will see.

I would be satisfied with as little as "chapter"-upgrade sprues like for the loyal sm.

>>49750243
Chhh, don'tbe so pessimistic anon.
If sisters are getting plastic models, pretty much everyone can. The excitement was unreal the day after the reveal. Everyone was in the shop, talking about it like the Messiah, with the GW manager leading the discussions, the glorious bastard has 3k points of them.

>>49750263

I doubt they are as successful as they'd hoped as people would just upgrade old kits they already had instead of buying a new kit of SM to go with it. That's why they repackaged the Vanguard Veterans and a lot of other kits together with their deathwatch upgrade sprues.

With that, I'll admit that I have no clue as to what GW thinks and we should let this thread get on with WIP. We'll automatically see next saturday(?) or the week after anyway.

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Biggest and da baddest

I feel that the "bone white" of terminators (post HH) looks bad, what are some alternatives you guys have tried? Pics appreciated

>>49747025
As you improve with practice, you'll also get faster.

>>49748459
It's on the GW website, either in the blog archive or on the preorder page for the new paints.

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>>49749882
PLASTIC KOS/LOC WHEN!?
REEEEEEEEEE

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Do these look ded?
I feel like they're missing something but I can't put my finger on it.

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So I just got Scythe, which has these minis in it.

Is there something easy I can do with them that'll turn out looking ok with minimal skill?

I've never painted minis before.

>>49751380
A proper base.

Once there is some sand/earth paste they will look way better.

Also add some more blood/gore.

>>49751405
>A proper base.
Ah I probably should have mentioned theyre going on my AoP board, so there you go.
How do I add more blood and gore without it looking like a 12 year old going crazy with blood for the blood god?

>>49751380
I'd cut the guy in the top left in half, he sticks out really bad.

>>49751394
Are they pre-assembled or multipart?

Material?

In any case:
Now:
Go to youtube and look for Warhammer TV. Watch a couple of his paint tutorials to get a general idea.


Pre-painting:
clean (mold lines if there are any)
assemble (if necessary)
wash them with warm water and some soap

Priming:
Get a spraycan of black or dark grey primer (from your local hardware store for example)
Go outside (if its not to wet/moist or rainy) and place the miniatures on a cardbord box or something
Spray in short bursts but not directly onto the mini.
Start spraying right next to the miniature and wave the can left and right so the paint hits the mini. Do this a couple of times.
Then turn your cardboard around and repeat so both sides of the mini are now black.
Take the cardboard with the minis back inside and let them dry for a day.

Painting

Get yourself a starter set (i recommend Army painter, you can find it on amazon for example)
Think about how to paint your minis and see if you need a couple of extra paints.
Use an old cd or something similar as palette and add a few drops of paint and a few drops of water to it.
Mix so the paint gets thinned down to milk consistency
Paint.
After you applied the base colors, use a wash (see this video >>49746690) and your minis are basically finished.

After that you can come back and ask about bases and highlights.

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>>49751473
pre-assembled plastic.

Here's some guy's painting journal. I'm worried since I don't really like how his turned out (the mechs look fine, but the characters seem blobby) and I'm guessing this guy has some experience so my attempts will no doubt be worse.

>>49750996
>Biggest and da baddest
>posts a manlet walker
>smaller than a sentinel

>>49751525
he might have experience, but certainly not much. he also didn't thin his paint from the look of it.

As i said, go check some tutorials on Warhammer TV and see what its all about. The basics are kinda simple to learn.

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>>49751563
Thanks, I'll have a stab at it.

Would it be worth my while to grab some cheap other thing to practice on first? It'll probably ease my mind a bit so I probably will.

Also have any idea why his mechs look so much better than the characters? Are inorganic, metallic subjects just easier to make look good?

>>49751631
sharp edges and straight lines are easier to paint, yes.

If you want to be on the save side, buy one or two cheap metal miniatures from reaper
For example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reaper-Miniatures-Harald-Fighter-02860-Dark-Heaven-Legends-Unpainted-Metal-/162137585558?hash=item25c0273796:g:DSoAAOSwsTxXiS02

There is the reaper bones line but these are plastic. Metal is way easier to strip clean if you want to start over and try again. Plastic can be cleaned too, but its harder and requires more care with the chemicals.

>>49751380

Needs corpse flies on the face

>>49747462
fuckin' ace, anon!

how did you make them? what parts didja use?

I'm looking for some chest and leg bits to make some gsc hybrids, and some heads for neophytes, anyone got any ideas?

>>49751759

Like, the plastic ones with leftover bits!

But seriously, I a troll face on a nightgoblin, some sort of shaman model probably also a night goblin and then the legs of a bloodletter with what I think are reaching zombie hands from the old kit with two harlequin masks.

>>49751631
Those look equally shit

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>>49749900
I'm also painting Black Templars at the moment. White is the bane of my entire existence. What is it about citadel white paints that make them so fucking hard to work with?

Also, any critiques would be appreciated. Once I've got the entire KT force done I aim to go back and add more highlights, but is there anything else I could do to improve?

>>49751999

I just follow the raven guard scheme for black myself, GW has some good examples of those on almost every veterans box. Your picture is a bit overlit so it's hard to make out the fine details. It's better to take a picture of one mini from up close with a white backdrop.

Some off the cuff things
>don't be afraid to use brighter highlights on your plasma and lenses
>look up how to paint metallic two line scratches for easy and cool looking battle damage
>on the small details, don't re-use colors already used on much bigger parts. Variety creates a more complete feeling, it's hard to put into words

Duncan has a really nice tutorial on doing red lenses somewhere, maybe in his dark angels videos? I can't find it right now.

All in all, bretty guud brotha kap'n or whatever space germans are supposed to sound like, I'm gay.

Basing could use some color too. I'm doing a jungle theme myself because black, red and bright green plants have a really nice contrast.

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Sup. dude who posted converted grey Knight earlier in thread rate this plz still in progress an needs a fair bit of work, but trying to get it done fairly quick, painting for a friend who's started night lords. What you guys think? I'm thinking about darkening the gold a bit though.

(Pic doesn't quite do the metallic blue justice, looks so much nicer irl)

>>49752077
Thanks for the advice. Regarding the small details, do you mean using a different silver for the boltgun details than the one used for the chains, or do you mean making the weapons a different colour entirely than the armour?

>>49752100
bretty gud, the blue just looks thicc from the shot

>>49752100
Blang blang/10

>>49752181
What are those masks/strange faces?

Your minis look awesome

Anyone have ideas or a source for dreadnought size shields?

>>49752234
Thanks, the masks are Native American Corn Husk Masks and masks of the False Face Society.

>>49751394

Gunter & Nacht

read it as "Gute Nacht"

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I tried making a space marine ogryn.
I think it went well.

What material is best for building terrain that's solid (ie not foam)? Preferably something that could actually be made quality and not just be square blocks.

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>>49752672
A better picture of him.

>>49752720
>A better picture of him.
nope

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>>49752720
Thrid time is the charm ?

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>>49748255

Are you seriously questioning our Lord Duncan's integrity?

>>49752840
Yeah that IS the same Bloodletter.

You want an example of a time Duncan HAS actually had to blatantly lie about a Citadel product? Watch his Liquid Green Stuff tutorial.

>>49752889
poor duncan.

>>49752889

You can the self disappointment in his eyes in that vid lol

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Hi guys

Just posting again asking for ideas for painting.

One anon suggested painting in between the breaks in the armor.

Were you talking about the joints? I was thinking of painting those bronze and then going with a real heavy shade of agrax earthshade to darken the hell out of them.

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POST YOUR CURRENT FOOKEN LADS
Just got basic and metallic layering done, gonna start on weapons, then put it together and do details. Yuss!

>>49753284
The norm for joints is silver because it universally looks great. Try your idea, though. You can always use Google for references.

>>49753284
Bronze joints? Interesting. And yes, it's generally a good idea to just keep the shade dark on the joint armor.

For a good bit of extra detail, use some Nuln Oil to do a recess shade on the rest of the armor. Then if you have the control for it, do highlights.

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>When you're trying to work but your dog wants to eat your guardsmen

>>49753473
This is why Gargantuan Creatures should be reserved for Apocalypse games only.

>>49753490
Kek

>>49752889
what does he lie about in that tutorial?

>>49753341
I don't currently have any nuln oil, but I'll keep that in mind.

>>49753753
He's like "yeah just apply some lquid green stuff to fill in the seam"
>cut to seam still not filled
"sometime's you'll need more than one coat
>cut to seam still not filled
>duncan's lifeless eyes
"this will all look smooth once we prime it"

>>49753337
Still a ton of work to do on me bangles

>>49753832
I just watched that one.

"Sometimes it will shrink a little bit when drying"

You can hear his voice trail off towards the end of the sentence, like he's ashamed to tell such a blatant lie.

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>>49753937
Pic related

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>>49753072
>>49753832
>>49753993

>>49753993
So is the lesson here that liquid greenstuff is never good and to just use regular greenstuff?

>>49753832
He's technically not lying, though the best way to use the stuff isn't with a paintbrush. You've got to use it like wood putty.

Usable, but not worth the price when you can get like ten pounds of regular greenstuff for a ten bucks.

>>49754065
The best use of liquid greenstuff I found was from Tabletop Minions, where the guy used it to form texture on otherwise plain surfaces.

Just use regular greenstuff putty for anything else.

>>49751429

By slowly building up the bftbg, thats really all there is to it. Avoid any heavy applications all at once and it should look fine.

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Finished, at last. Now I can wait for my mini busts to arrive

>>49754304
i quit

>>49754304
Looks like he hopped right of the pages of an Age of Sigmar comic book. Excellent work, anon.

>>49754304

What's the best advice you can give for such thicc gorgeous black lines? marker pen?

looks beautiful

>>49754304
>getting mini busts
>not maxi busts
Cool job, dude. Almost as good as your other one. Can't say I'm a fan of the sigmasks.

How to greenstuff shoulder-pad sized Slaanesh symbols?

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>>49754376
Well, you just prime black and then paint with base paint without touching the black outlines zone. There is lots of mistakes corrections, so you need to make sure your paints are thin. Being able to apply really small brush strokes is also really important, since otherwise the "corrections" will results in huge blobs of paint

>>49754423
The other one hasd a better head, but this one is much better technically. At least the mouth is not visible, which I think is better.

8cm mini busts is where the magic is at.This is one of the busts I'm waiting for

>>49754511
Where do you order busts? China?

>>49754531
I ordered some chinese recasts from aliexpress for around $15-$18. The original ones are only sold in metal versions and cost three times more.

>>49754551
Please post them once they arrive.

I've seen some nice stuff on Aliexpress but i'm kinda hesitant to send my money to some dudes in china with the hope they actually send the wares.

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First squad almost done. I managed to make the weapons from 1 ork nob sprue turn into 8 different counts-as drills, claws, saws etc. I'm aiming for somewhere in between well-painted, and tabletop quality. So they're basically base coat, layer, wash. No highlights.

What do you guys think. I'm a little iffy about the pink-purple as the main colour.

>>49754511
Yeah, it's most obvious with the sword and shield. Going off memory, at least.

>8cm
I can respect it, but the larger busts let you go a bit more crazy with new/different techniques.

>>49754577
I think you could use some stronger highlights on the faces if I'm being picky.

>>49754353
hold the door for me

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squad done

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>>49754751

>>49754751
yum

>>49754751
Crisp!

What kind of wash should I use for Raven Guard armor?

Black wash over black models doesn't seem too intuitive.

>>49753337
I like your green anon

>>49754793
Use slightly off-black with a black wash.

Alternatively don't wash, just highlight.

>>49754761
heavy weapon men with the proper heavy weapon bell bottoms makes my man meat excited

>>49754793
>abaddon black basecoat
>highlight with eshin grey
>nuln oil wash
>detail highlight with dawnstone
this is how ive seen a good bunch of people paint a good black. I haven't used nuln oil gloss on it, but I might, at some point, just to see how it looks

Liquidtex matte varnish brushed on to citadel paint okay? Or do I need something more specialized?

>think I suck at painting
>check eBay for some bits and good deals
>all these terrible "well painted" models
Thinning my paints really makes a big difference.

>>49754751
Basically one of the best reds I've seen. Looking forward to more Red Talons

>>49755211
>pro painted
>its never pro painted

>>49754761
10/10 would engage in moon dropping operations with

>>49754814
That you think this means a lot to me. I spent time specifically developing the right hue.
>>49754793
When working with black you can get away with a lot of colors mixed Into the black to make it lighter. I always basecoat my negra templars with 80% black and 20% dark blue to make highlights and shadows more effective. I also use watered down black as a wash for all recesses.
But specifically when shading black, i'd say less is more and to just feel it out.

>>49755324
>Pro painted
>100% of it is airbrushed
>Prefab bases with Secret Weapon or GW terrain materiel

>Basing with Stirland Mud
>Realise I basically used a pot for 5 SM

Anyone knows a 3rd party that does the same kind of muddy, grainy texture and sorta same color, but in MUCH bigger pots?

>>49754751
>>49754761
Jolly good work anon!
Would you mind showing those and the CSM you did? I feel the red is similar, if not the same.

>>49755500
http://www.dickblick.com/products/liquitex-texture-gels/

the GW small pots are just special batches of this stuff. there are a lot of different textures you can use. you can either mix paint in right away or paint after applying.

>>49755500
go to any art store and check their acrylic mediums

>>49755553
see also http://www.dickblick.com/products/golden-crackle-paste/ for duplicating textures like agrellan earth.

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>>49755553
>>49755612
>dickblick

>>49755553
>>49755559
Cheers bruvs.

>>49755553
>>49755559
>>49755612
Different Anon here, the ease of buying GW texture paints is what draws me (and probably many others) to it. But demand motivates you naturally, it all depends on how much of it you need.

>>49754751
How do you guys do the highlights so well?

I can't get it right at all, what brush type should I use? I've got citadel brushes and each time i've tried I just fuck it up

>>49755681
>the ease of buying GW texture paints

>the laziness to look for alternatives

fixed it for you.

Lots and lots of people will just buy 100% gw stuff, no matter how cheap and how superior other brands are.

I find it amazing how in 2016 people cheer about basic hobby stuff like texture paint when other companies sell that kind of paint for like 16 years now.

how long do paint pots last, anyways? in terms of like, painting marines, will you go through a paint pot in like 20 marines or so, if you're painting a color that takes up most of their armor? I haven't really started painting yet.

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>>49755718
You slide the side of the brush

>>49755786
A pot of paint goes a looooong way on normal miniatures, not so much on terrain.

Using a wet palette gets you even further as you won't have paint drying on the palette.

>>49755786
I'd guess a pot should last for about 80 or so assuming you use it as main color

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>>49753337
My first Terror Squad.
Resin is a bitch. It's difficult to even get the damn arms on with super glue. Plastic and plastic cement really spoiled me.
I'm trying to decide what kinds of bits to add on. I'm thinking chains and skulls, or maybe carving/flaying knives (like those bits that come in the Kroot Carnivore kit, but without the hanging meat). If anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear 'em.

Also, all the bolters are magnetized so I can switch them with volkite weapons.

Also also, not sure how to arm the armless sergeant in the back. Should I just go with a chainglaive, or go full magnets?

>>49755742
You're right in what you say, but a big part of stealing a market is to be more user-friendly than your competitors. I do buy brushes and... Actually the only thing i really do buy from GW is paints. Because they're so simple to use and cheap enough. If i ever do have to step up due to a bigger project, i will turn to better sources, but for 5-10-men-squads, this is fine.

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Pretty with these 4, considering they're my first SM and I haven't painted more than 5 models before them. I also pleasantlt discovered that I could adjust lights and colours on my phone, laking the picture much closer to IRL than the original.

Just a few details on the bases to do and they'll be pretty much done.

>>49755984
Something that makes the Sargeant stand out, for sure.

Do not add the details before you have painted their bodies, by the way. This saves time when you're at the clean-up stage.

>>49756006
They look solid. I can say from experience that the hazard stripes can be a pain, so I can understand why they're a little wobbly here.
I'd suggest getting some masking tape and cutting it with an exacto knife. Just tape it to a flat, clean piece of plastic before cutting and it should go quite easily.
It makes painting hazard stripes much, much easier.

Keep up the good work.

>>49756006
Very Nice, Anon.

The paints and the shade is just a little thick, though.

>>49752240
Anyone have some ideas?

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What are /tg/'s thoughts on black/brown lining? I've seen miniatures look really good both ways. But each is a very different look. I'm not sure which way to go...

>>49756041
Yeah, I started good, and tried to rush and messed up the stripes. But I remembered to do the movements before actually applying the paint so it should be better next time.

>>49756052
Thanks!
I prime by brush and basecoat the wole model by brush with ironbreaker as well, I'll try to make them a bit thinner next time.

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How do I recast in pewter/metal?
Fuck GW for the metal guardsmen being an arm and a leg

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>>49756107
I really like blacklined minis when well done.

>>49754304 does it extremely well, and pic related does it nicely as well.

>>49752220

I was more talking about the red skulls, but unlike people, color diversity on a model is good. Don't make them glaring colors or it'll look cluttered, but for example I add a lot of tacticool ammo packs to my line soldiers and neophytes and do little things like different shades of brown for the belt and packs. Small detail, not really noticeable but it creates a feeling of looking more real.

>>49752776
>>49752720
>>49752672

Based on that one rogue trader story where this guy has an ogryn on his team which they fit with power armor modified to his size?

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So today I was at my local GW store and man they are really craving those new customers and who can blame them, they really need new blood.

For non German friends the top reads "open me and come to the store, to paint your new miniature and play with it."

The idea is that your friends come to the store and get all basic instructions from GW-staff. Also it's completely free and contains either a tac marine or sigmarine

What do you think of this promo or is this old news and I'm a slowpoke

>>49756475
That seems like a good idea, although I would off myself before going to the local GW to paint.

>>49756298
please respond
I remember a pdf

Have you niggers heard of Vanta Black yet? Essentially it's a paint/fabric/whatever that contains carbon nanotubes that suck in 96.5% of all visible light. Apparently looking at it is like gazing into a black hole. Can't wait until they make this shit available to the public, if they ever do, but at the moment it's going into NASA telescopes and onto stealth jets.

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Dumping some of my current WIP:

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>>49756833

>>49756505
Well you don't even have to do that, if you feel especially like an ass you can just keep them for yourself and not make advertising for GW

Upon some examination the minis have some nasty moldlines though, I'm gonna scrape them myself away before it goes to my friend

>>49756833
thin your paints and don't fucking let it dry out on your brush

>>49756833

It's all really patchy, use thinner paint and more layers with less paint on the brush. Use varnish and glaze mediums.

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>>49756889

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Any bits retailors sell greatcoat legs that'd fit to guard like these?

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>>49756930
>>49756935
The detail in these pictures always reveals way more than I want to know

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>>49756987
Yup, victoria miniatures, they have greatcoats for male and female guardsmen.
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/greatcoat-legs-mk1-x5-male

>>49757003
Look at some of the better models in this thread. The problem isn't the pictures, it's your painting.

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>>49757003

>>49757051
Oh I'm not blaming the camera. It's just always easier to see problems in a closeup photo than at eyeball distance for me. Your mileage may vary.

>>49757035
Those Victorians look awful like Mordians. I like it.

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Does anyone have any links for futuristic looking Brodie helms for guardsmen?

>>49757097

I find resizing the photo from 3k down to a viewing size makes a lot of difference in terms of not being able to see every little pixel mistake

>that mini you bought a box of because it was fun to paint, gameplay be damned

What's her name, /WIP/?

>>49757329
AW73 Civilians

>>49756475
Well, that certainly seems like evidence that they're trying something a little different. I'd pity the redshirts though. I'm not sure if it's different outside of the US but here usually one guy gets stuck running a whole store and GW puts the weight of his job on roping in new customers. The guy's got to get aggressive if he wants to keep the job.

So having said that, this certainly would have roped me in. I'll take free samples of plastic crack over just being pressured into the drug any day of the week.

>>49757329
I don't even play, but I guess the Bullgryns, LotD, and the Warhammer Giant to be converted into a bigass Bullgryns all fall in that category I guess.

>>49757394
I guess I must be the lucky one here, the store I go to is absolutely fantastic. Chilled manager, been working for GW since 2004, never tried to sell me anything, organises loads of events, at least 2 every week (we did the 22nd anniversary of the shop a few weeks ago, shit was great) and he's pretty all around.

The fact that he was a regional manager that decided to step down to go back to the local scene probably gives him some leeway.

But the point is, the store manages to get money by being "nice" and appealing to clients, not by forcing stuff onto them. Not that I doubt the efficiency of such a method, plenty of ex-GW managers that says it IS the method that works and that being nice is too dangrous at first.

>>49754577
I really like them, my one complaint is the clothing nearly the same color as the skin tone. I would change the clothes, love the skin color

>>49747135
Lookin good. Maybe tighten up the gold chords on the robe though.

>>49757003
Dude, it looks like powder. What happened?

>>49757329
Most of my chaos army, actually all of it

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>>49757568
not doubting you but how is being nice dangerous?
cause people would just take advantage of you ?
also any suggestions how to paint my Medusa rockets ? i REALLY can't decide on something that would look nice.

>>49757236

Victoria Miniatures have some.

>>49758074
"Nice" as in, not trying to force sales onto every guy that steps into the shop.

>>49758074

Why not go full military graffiti?

"2000 lbs of Veneration"
"Praise this!"

Etc...

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>>49753337
Lads from last thread, cleaned up a bit and based. 3 more to go and I'll finally be done.

>>49756298
>>49756691
Try the /tg/ archive

>>49758074
As invasive as those sale techniques are, they do work.

>>49758411
You should thicken the sand a little so it's less spotty. Looks great and simple, so you won't go crazy painting it all. Got any HQ's in a more complex scheme?

Does anyone have tips on how to make a giant more upright or repose the arms without catastrophically fucking up?

>>49758148
yeah something like that but i am struggling more with the generall paint scheme go i with an easy one (black and silver maybe a bit gold) or something more visible like red or yellow.

got my armoured sentinel squad with plasmas black and a little bit red with yellow warning stripes cause plasma overheats a LOT with me. ingame canon armed sentinels with plasma are some sort of penal troops. that one wouldn't float with a manticore cause they are venerable machines and so
>>49758074 i also fucked up there manticore not medusa

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How is this for my first model?

>>49758649
Well, for my sense of humour I would look to the missiles of the 50 and 60's. Nuclear ordinance because why not?

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>>49758598
Nah just as simple. I might do some extra work on the Commander when I'm all done and dusted, but I'm not too fussed. He's already got a fancy after all.

>>49758773
Colours are in the right place, just do some washes with black or something to give it some shading and bring out the detail.

>>49758773
'S awright.

Some of your silver paint looks a little thick, while your gold is too thin.

I'm assuming you used Auric Armor gold, or whatever its new sigmarine name is. That paint is bright, but it doesn't have mucb coverage. It looks best painted over another shade of gold, brown, red, or yellow, in multiple thin coats.

How should I go about doing an urban base for some Crisis suits?

>>49749786
What did you use to wash the mold release agent off?

>>49758874
Is there a wrong place to put them?

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>>49758928
>filename.jpg

>>49754304
Astonishing.

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I finished him to the extent that I am satisfied with what it looks like on the table.

>>49751380
Needs more dirt and grime.

>>49758913
Can't go wrong with cement roads, bricks, and spent bullet casings.
And some fires and barrels for your bigger guys.

>>49759068
Hm...

How hard do you think it'd be to greenstuff that stuff for someone who only has a bigass tube of greenstuff and can't really afford to go get plasticard any time soon (yes, it's cheap; no, I can't really get any right now)?

>>49758854
Looks good enough, certainly, but some highlights and shades can't hurt your main men.
>Guardsman in the middle
You cocksuckers wanna play rough?

>>49758649
>gets hot! alot
may i speak to you about our lord and saviour chessex?

>>49758088
I remember seeing some that had some sort of mask attached to them. Do you know of those?

>>49758618
Hard to repose their bellies, but with a bit of courage and greenstuff you can fix the arms. Then throw an inflated pelt over them for structure.

>>49759094
Hard at first. Easy in a bit. You just need the courage to try and fail and try again.

>>49758773
A good start, but with a lot of room for improvement. Your brush control is really good, but you could use some shades and/or higlights. The gold seems a bit thin, try to begin with brown and then paint with a darker gold color, then highlight with the one you used. Also, try to clean up the mold lines.

But again, this model looks clean, when I painted my first model I could only dream of that brush control. Well, I was six at that time, but still... Well, to be honest, I still struggle with that part sometimes. It's really a nice first step, and an excellent choice for a first model (fellow dorf guy here). If you want to feel nostalgic one day, keep that fella the way he is, if not: you can always try again.

>>49759200
Oh and there's many greenstuffing videos online, look at them for references and look at the way they handle the stuff.

>>49759012
This might just be the most expensive individual Imperial Guardsman model I've ever seen.

Looks pretty snazzy, tho.

>>49759012
>what kinda skintone u want?
>just fuck my shit up

>>49757236
>>49759149
Blight Wheel and Puppets War sell Brodie Helmets with sci-fi masks.
West Wind productions sell Brodie helmets with regular gasmasks.

>>49759298
:( yeah I fucked up senpai. Tried to paint after a wash too soon.


Also I suck dick at this, so that doesn't help.

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All is dust.

>>49759129
as long as he does know answers you may as well do

>>49758913
>>49759094
Imho green stuff is entirely the wrong thing to use for this. It's completely smoot, just as plastic card, which does not look very believable as asphalt.

The obvious easy answer it to buy bases or toppers. Anvil Industry do nice ones and MicroArts have some pretty sleek ones for Infinity among others.

Super simple way to get easy roads is to get a tile made of shredded cork and just paint that black and drybrush it. If you want to go the extra mile and get spectacular results try this
http://thebrushbrothers.blogspot.de/2013/09/how-to-make-base-in-style-of-old.html

If you are more wondering about urban basing in general it's basically a mix of rubble and ruins. You can use any kind of garbage you have lying around. Old ballpoint pens can supply you with springs and pipes for example.
Something as simple as a boardwalk or a gutter can set the scene, but stuff like broken floorboards, strewn about cooking utensils or broken toys work too if you want to go the extra mile.

Seriously have a look at some resin bases for inspiration. Some stuff will be easy enough to copy.
Some garbage, i.e. stuff like drinking cans or scattered papers can also help to evoke that stuff, and don't really require you to build your base from the ground up around those things.
there is other stuff you could use like furniture from dollhouses or the lasered stuff from 4grounds.
Might be cool to have the corner of a ruined building with a grandfather clock on a bigger base for example.

That stuff is expensive though. Some 1:50 H-beams are cheap though and you could build rubble from industrial building with those.

>>49759411
>All is dust.
Including your primer?

>>49759411
All is primed.

>>49759603
Won't really matter when it's done.

>>49759366
>>49759411
>>49759499
Kek bless you

>>49759603
a bit of dust after the primer isnt bad

>>49759366
Fucking this.

The things I'm struggling with on my dark eldar is free-hand symbols, skin and eyes.
The skin always comes out as a blotchy mess and I have no idea how people can paint something so minute as the eyes.

>>49759632
It really does, just look at the shoulderpad on >>49759012

>>49757329
All of them, I don't play.

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>>49748183
Hahahaha, you're fuck, start all over again.

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Two more objectives made. Next will probably be a destroyed dreadnought

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Well, I have some cleanup and potentially some greenstuff to do, but I've saved myself $80 by making my own Cyclic Ion Blaster. And for my first conversion, I wouldn't say it looks all that bad. (I still need a magnet for it, hence why it's being held. Can't stay up without glue or magnet.)

The suit itself, on the other hand, has claimed the life of a knife blade already today. Using fusion blaster muzzles to make retro-rockets was a mistake.

>>49754751
I'm paiunting my marines Red Talons do you have any tips for me also great job.

>>49756475
My local store has buckets of these that they give out like candy. I have enough to form hh tac squads from them.

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>>49754065
>liquid greenstuff is never good

"Liquid greenstuff" is, in fact, neither liquid nor greenstuff. It's literally thick green paint, but marketing thought it might sell better if they just lied to their customers - whom they consider little brighter than pack rats. In their defence though, GW did profit handsomely from selling a million Finecast(tm) cat turds to those who compulsively slap the Citadel(tm) food bar no matter what might be dispensed.

Where to get feather bits? Purity seal size

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Does anyone have any pinups for Death Monster that they're painting?

WIP of Black Knight for a friend

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Anyone else have this issue where 4chan takes fucking FOREVER to open a picture?

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>>49762494
Been happening to me for the past hour or so...

>>49762494
Ghost-Paladins?

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I really wish I could get more aberrant heads easily. I love the way they look on normal cultist bodies. They remind me of The Hills Have Eyes or Mars Attacks.

These are almost done. I just need to clean up their faces, add little black pinpricks in the middle of their eyes, and re base them.

SW titan guy here, need a head for my guy before I go in to GW tomorrow and my 3d printed head won't be here till later. Any ideas? I tried buying some sculpting clay but cant make a fucking wolf skull to save my life.

>>49757236

Maxmini have some with gasmasks

>>49757329

Sanguinary Guard I guess, I play black templars

I've also bought so much random mechanicus stuff I might as well start an army at this point

>>49762494
>>49762541

Yeah, hiroshimoot is limiting bandwidth to save money and is looking to sell 4chan. When moot left, it was financially sound but he fucked it up and now he is in doubt whether to go full youtube and monetize 4chan, shut down boards that use too much data or have too many people visiting like, or he's going to sell it.

>>49764027
I don't know, everything's fine for me.

>>49762870
I'd buy the bodies off of you, if all you want is the heads.

>>49762399
I'm working on Dung Beetle but hot damn that Black Knight looks baller.

Do you think it's possible to convert a First or Second generation Hybrid into looking like a Primus?

I want my war-leader to look more like the first hybrids, not the more human ones.

>>49754761
>>49754751
Any advice on how you did the helmet lenses? The paintjob is sublime!

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>mfw I'm going to prime my remaining backlog in a day or two
>all those models gonna take me around 2 months to paint up
>I'll be a free men in 2017

>>49764370

A WILD NEW RELEASE APPEARS

>>49762713
They were a thing in 5th edition.
Some HQ was haunted by his deceased brothers so they would randomly pop up as an extra squad to use in game as long as he was alive and fight for your GK.

Then GW Fucked the people like >>49762494
by removing their rules from newer codices so they become invalid models. Sure you can use them as regular paladins... but it's just weird then if people don't know about their legacy.
Some people did really extensive crazy conversions and paintjobs too just to have it spunked up the wall.

>>49759012
3/10
Blue wash the armor and flesh wash then highlight the nose, cheekbones, ears and jaw then the hands.

>>49764370
I wish I was in the same boat, have to put together a bunch of KDM armor kits, prime them, wait on the Bones Kickstarter to arrive and prime all of that.
Maybe by the summer I'll be free

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How would one go about making an almost white platinum ? or a more metallic white than in pic related.

My first thought was a baselayer bright metal and then layer upon layer of a creamy white, but on second thought, getting consistent layers would be a bitch.

I really want to know how to do this, since i dont like plain white armour like white scars.

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>>49764551

Either NMM or pearlescent medium with ivory paint

>>49764551
Couldn't you do layers of a light grey on top of a base metallic, then finish with a creamy white layer?

>>49764582
fug that's actually a decent idea. You wouldnt happen to have a link to a shop that sells it ?
>>49764590
Haven't tried it, but the grey probably wouldnt help much since you want both the grey and white to be thin enough for the metal to shine through.

Damn annoyed it will like a whole week before i can test any of this out.

>>49764647

It's sold by almost every hobby store that carries Vallejo, or they can order it for you. I have no idea where you live though haha. Don't post your personal information on the internet.

>>49764688
I don't think i've seen any in the shop i usually get vallejo paints at. I might just have missed it on the shelves.
Or i'll just have to go scour the interwebs.

Thanks anyhow

Is there a way to make layer paints from Vallejo/AP paints so thaqt they dry a little bit transparent?
Was thinking of trying mixing them with a gloss or a medium

>>49764784

Gloss/Matte varnish will make your paints more transparent but give it a sheen. There is also Glaze Medium, specifically meant for making paint transparent.

>>49764477
It's not like I'm provoking gw to release plastic version of some miniatures' line.

I've bought some pvc miniatures, and I'm having terrible time trying to remove mouldlines. Any tips how to deal with this kind of material?

>>49764832

I didn't ask for plastic daemon primarchs and a CSM overhaul

>>49764873
But you'll like it goddamnit.

>tfw GW fucked up and sent me my order twice
>was only £20 worth of paint

If only they'd do it when I ordered £200 worth of models.

>>49765262

But that's exactly why they're getting rid of finecast, because everyone and their autistic dads said "nope, it's not perfect send me more shit"

>>49765338
I'm just hoping that the made to order sustem won't rely on shitty resin. Hopefully they use the FW's one.

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Does /wip/ like my heavy weapons teams? First ones I've ever actually finished. They're a real chore to make.

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>>49765600
Close up

>>49765600
>>49765609
Looking good, the baseq are nice as well.

>>49754304
I'd say the artistic style doesn't go with the flock, but that's petty at best. Bravo.

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Hmm

>>49757035
if you're gonna buy these, be careful! VM doesn't do their minis in heroic scale, so the figures are a bit smaller than GW ones. They look wierd when paired with cadian bits.

>>49759499
Chessex make really good dice.

Fairly new to painting - does shading with a wash look noticeably different to starting with a dark basecoat and layering up to the lightest colours? I want to do a fairly dark blue cloak but I'm finding washes harder to control than other paints

>>49759908
High-quality brushes and lots of patience and do-overs.

>>49760797
Looks nice. Are you gonna do a lighting effect when painting it, like it's all glowy and sexy?

>>49765600
>>49765609
Those are some sexy HW teams. Nice one mate.

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>>49765388

Nah, they'll do them in metal made of 100% melted down sisters of battle

Stay strong Sister Risa, for the emperor

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hey if i wanted to greenstuff a Bloodborne Hunter for my forces commander and Sergeant aesthetics
How do i A. Kitbash the parts to get that look.
and B. Green stuff in general.

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How would you fix this if you didn't have the part that snapped off?

>>49766322
Make another blade out of plasticard or just rough up the area around it and justify it as weathering/battle damage.

>>49766178
OF FUCK YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING

>>49766233

Both, you can prolly get pretty far with kitbashing but add some finishing touches with gs.

A witch hunter could be a good starting point.

>>49757137
Pretty much all of Victoria's infantry regiments are meant to resemble one IG regiment or another.

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Someone posted those guardsmen a few threads ago, what are those heads i love the style of them!

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>>49766647
>what are those heads

They're newer plastic Eldar Harlequin masks.

>>49766178
they're going to sacrifice the last of them to the god emperor of charging people huge amounts of money so they can be reborn as even more expensive plastic kits....aren't they?

$70 for five sisters tyvm.

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>>49762870
>They remind me of The Hills Have Eyes

That's probably because of actor Michael Berryman, whose unusual visage actually *was* the inspiration for a different model.

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Perfect timing. I've JUST finished painting all of my Black Templars.

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>>49766752

Praise be unto Him.

>>49755553
"Due to manufacturer distribution restrictions, Liquitex products cannot be shipped to addresses outside of North America."
Well, bummer.

>>49766770
Urgh I've technically got more arms/shoulder pads to do because WEAPON OPTIONS but I'd need to redo all the existing ones to match but light grey with white highlights sure looks nice but its more work argh.

>>49766752
Show us some pics ya git, Imma start BT soon as well.

>>49766031
There is certainly a visual difference. You can probably google references. I'd say the one without shades can end up looking brighter overall and cleaner.

>>49766927
Posted some already >>49751999, but now I have 5 assault marines and a chaplain done. Lots of lovely flowing robes, lots of struggling to get white to look smooth(ish).

>>49766046
I'm unfortunately not that skilled yet. I do, however, plan on having glowing seams.

Another bottle of superglue turned into slightly sticky water overnight.... This seems to happen every time, regardless of brand. Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong?

>>49767002
Long-time BT painter here, i'd reccomend doing zenithal drybrush or thin layer highlights with 50% Abaddon and 50% Dark Reaper, it makes the model significantly less flat and emphasizes the black.

>>49767044
If you can afford an airbrush you could make it happen pretty easily. Otherwise you can just make a gradual drybrush. It REALLY makes the model stand out and shine.

Tips on how to blend colours?

>>49756475
looks like i should pay my local GW a visit.. haven't been there for like 10 years.

>>49767194
That's an idea I hadn't considered (and a technique I'd never heard of). Will give it a shot, since I imagine it's relatively easy to do for otherwise finished models, assuming you're careful.

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Any ideas what else I should do to enhance the wood or does it look alright atm?
Still very wip

>>49767394
The dead wppd on the floor is oretty luch spot on. The hut is quitz bland though.

>>49767414
Jesus all these typos.

>>49767394
The wooden walls need a touch more highlighting to make the divisions between the boards stand out. Just something light though. You don't want it to stand out too much.

>>49767414
What

>>49767183
Y'all getting pranked by a family member / housemate.

>>49766322

plasticard, probably 2mm thickness, cut into the blade shape. do the top rim with some thinner card.

Alternatively for a bonus round you could cut pieces from the other 4 spikes to make it look like it's all beat to shit, or maybe just take the top 1/3rd from its neighbour on the left, then it looks like it rammed something bad

What do you guys use to strip paint? I've started buying from ebay and I've got models with questionable types of paint, like I don't even know what the hell they used and I'm not convinced dettol will get it off

>>49756474
Well first i kinda just wanted a huge space marine.
But he is twice the size of a normal space marine model. So then I thought of that he could be a ogryn that got gene modified to creat a new form of super warrirors.
But yeah that story hade a small inspiration to the creation of the model.

>>49767915
Where's the best place to buy plasticard in the UK? Amazon alright, or is there better/cheaper elsewhere?

>>49767939
Fairy power cleaner for plastics, which takes time and a bit of scrubbing. Anything metal goes in acetone nail polish.

>>49768081

Ebay. You can search for plasticard, styrene and I think something else.
I bought these two, the first is as thin as standard paper and so useful for flexible and thin work, the second is thick and strong. I'd also recommend getting your hands on some styrene/plasticard tubes while you're at it, there's so much shit you can do with them.

>Fairy power cleaner for plastics, which takes time and a bit of scrubbing.

Ah right, thanks. I thought it was fairy something but couldn't remember. Do you do it under a running tap or avoid water like the plague?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200877104208?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322236696744?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=511138376799&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

>>49768113
I decanted it and used it as a soak, though apparently it's best to spray, leave for an hour and then scrub. It's 100% okay to wash it off with water. Dettol is the one where washing with water will fuck things up.

>>49768148

>Dettol is the one where washing with water will fuck things up.

Yeah, I learned that one the hard way. Still trying to recover some models, but it's really not working. Any idea how to unfuck them?

>>49767939
DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID
OVER NIGHT
WEAR GLOVES
CHEMICAL BURNS
TOOTHBRUSH
NOT YOUR MAIN ONE!

>>49768159
More Dettol over night again, but without the water.
Or >>49768174

>>49768159
No idea, I'm afraid. I trialed it once with an old Catachan, fucked it completely and swore off the stuff.

I've also heard good things about Biostrip 20. Not tried it myself, but you can get a 1/2 litre tub for under £10.