Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

First for "The surface shines bright concealing the shadows below"

Naaru were a mistake.

>>49682001
Knaifu 4 laifu KJ

>so says the SHADOW of Xavius
it unironically took me 5 weeks of Legion to figure out what the fuck Malfurion meant by this

>>49682064
what?

>>49682097
when you're running DHT, Malfurion keeps shit talking Xavius for seemingly no reason, but it's because your character isn't supposed to know that the last boss isn't full powered raid boss Xavius, but a projection of his power he used to capture Malfurion

>>49682123
malfurion literally says that during the dungeon.
How slow are you anon?

>>49682001
>bad writing
>fishy

>>49682289
it's the blizzard fan's delusion.

>>49682064
Man why is that an insult though.

You got punked by your worst enemy's fucking familiar.

>>49682370
It's shameful that people will forever blame Kosak's terrible writing on Metzen

Everything I love about Warcraft was made by Metzen, I don't think Kosak's added a single thing that I don't hate

>>49682409
Metzen was responsible for SC2's epilogue. He will forever be dirty in my eyes.

>>49682442
I did specify Warcraft

>>49682464
True, but he's not faultless in Warcraft either. He made Aggra and defanged Thrall.

>>49682123
Xavius is calling Malfurion a coward and Malf is basically calling him out for being to cowardly to face Malfurion and the heroes in person.

It's not a warning.

>>49682442
What happened in the Epilogue? I haven't played SC since WoL.

>>49682478
No he didn't, Thrall becoming a yes-man to Aggra was Kosak's doing

Aggra was bad and frustrating, but she wasn't a complete drain on Thrall's character until Cataclysm

>>49682442
was he?
pretty sure the drunk mess raynor was his idea.

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>>49682492
After stopping evil not-Old-God dude it turned out that he just went to this other dimension where he'll reform and come back again to kill us (or dominate or whatever).
So we turned Kerrigan into Xel'naga, she goes to the not-Warp and kills it for good. Then she comes back to Jim and they disappear somewhere together.

>>49682601
Wat

Wat am I looking at?

>>49682573
A lot of it was his idea. Including the Epilogue.

>>49682617
The end of starcraft 2.

>>49682645
Is that.....is that supposed to be Kerrigan? Is she god?

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>>49682617

>>49682654
Yes and yes.

>>49682654
ha ha you thought legacy of the void was going to be about the protoss?

fuck you it's kerrigan again

> Knights of the Ebon Blade decide to raise dead to make Four Horsemen great again
> They raise Nazgrim - a powerful warrior, who defended Orgimmar just by himself during the siege
> Okay
> They raise Trollbane, a king of unimaginable level of badassery
> Okay, I'm with you so far
> They raise Whitemane, a cloth-wearing priestess who was never famous for combat skills or seen wielding a sword
What did they mean by this? No, I welcome Whitemane's redemption, but wouldn't she make much more sense as a priest companion instead of that noname scarlet girl?

>>49682733
Well, it was about the protoss, the epilogue wasn't but it was the epilogue of the whole SC2.

>>49682797
she was dead, unrezzable and damned.
She got a perfect second chance.
It fits like broken ceramics.

>>49682797
I guess death knight recruitment is similar to paladin recruitment in a way.

Uther was just a cleric before he picked up a sword hammer and became a paladin.
Many paladins that Uther and Faol recruited in Lordaeron were pious knights though.

>>49682601
And if Xe'ra's fawning over Illidan isn't bullshit, it will happen again in WoW.

>>49682797
Whiteman's UH specced, which is has gotten pretty caster-y over the expacs. Not entirely unreasonable.

>>49682797
It's explained when you're sent to recruit her that she has very strong willpower considering how powerful a wielder of the Light she was, and a zealous desire to take revenge upon the Legion for deceiving/corrupting her and the Scarlet Crusade.

>"There is no greater hatred and scorn in this world than that which exists in my heart. The Burning Legion will pay for all that they have taken from me. The day of my judgment awaits, but theirs is at hand and I will be the executioner's blade. I will not rest untl every demon lays dead, their corpses paving the very ground I walk! Command me to the front, Deathlord, and I will rain terror upon the armies of the Burning Legion!"

And like another anon pointed out, there's a reason she's Unholy, the most magic-heavy Death Knight spec, and not Blood or Frost.

Besides, her seeming to not have much training in melee combat or heavy armor is a thing typically irrelevant to Death Knights anyway. They're pretty much born with instinctual knowledge of necromancy, blood magic, etc. it's not a stretch to assume that the same can work with martial combat.

>>49682903
It's like they don't get why Kerrigan and Illidan are popular in the first place. It's not because they're great heroes who's everybody fawning over and who can do no wrong.

>>49683104
Edgy blizz > mid life crisis bliz

I don't suppose any if you have a MEGA with all the Warcraft Audiobooks including the early ones like Day of the Dragon?

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>>49682797
The thing they really fucked up with in regards to Whitemane is that she's missing her chapeau.

>>49683326
>I don't suppose any if you have a MEGA with all the Warcraft Audiobooks including the early ones like Day of the Dragon?

No I don't.
Who are you torturing btw?

>>49683449
Myself.
I've wanted to read all the books but prefer to listen to audiobooks during travel.

>>49683490
> Enjoying Warcraft books
> Enjoying Warcraft lore at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnnHExFpbJQ

>>49683391
I still really want a DK quest where you return it to her and she starts wearing it again.

>>49683545
I enjoy the smaller bits of lore.
Drogbar are fun

>>49683545

You are a special kind of special, ain't ya?

>>49683391
Wouldn't it be stranger if she got to actually keep the hat after it being looted from her for so many times?

>>49683545
Love is blind, friendship closes its eyes

>>49683672
This. The individual questlines are often fun and intriguing, but the larger scale is irreparably fucked

>>49683545
Hey now I enjoyed the lore up until Pre-Cata

>child of Light and Shadow

Clash between Light and Void created Twisting Nether and by extension, demons.

>inb4 "Azzinoth is our true savior"

>>49684058
The half-demons will save us from the full demons.

>>49684274
Sounds like a plot of Corruption of Champions.

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>>49684291

>>49684291
Blizzard has been less successful in luring in furries than CoC was.

>>49683735
Going off what >>49683660 said, I'd love a quest where she sends you after another adventurer and his party of murderhobos and murder the fuck out of them to get it back for her

>>49682442

>writes all of wc3 all by himself only working with lead artist and designer to integrate the story
>forever terrible because of a vague prologue that would never meet expectations

>>49685185
> Implying epilogue was the only Metzen's fail
Cataclysm. WoD. The entire expansions that never needed to exist, but they do because Metzen couldn't control his midlife crisis.

>>49685217
He wasn't involved all that much in writing those. At that point, while still the boss of the writing team, his imput mostly consisted of greenlighting other peoples' ideas, since he was mostly focused on running the company. Most of the shitty writing in Cata and later can be blamed on Kosak.

>>49685217
I'm sure the large corporation that bought them out during that period had NOTHING to do with that.

I'm not saying the guy's platinum for his writing, but the teams are a lot larger since around Cata and there's a lot more at play than there was before. Not to mention that WoW is a fucking broken platform to tell character based stories with anyway, and they already pulled the best trick as to why random adventurers are able to do most of what they do in Wrath with the Lich King.

If you want an irredeemably terrible writer, Metzen's not who you're looking for. He's just average, with his best being pretty good and his worst pretty bad.

>>49685294
Continuing on this, while he's average he clearly has a passion for what he does. Say what you want about the guy, but he's more or less the Father of the lore and acts the part pretty genuinely.

>>49685319
I agree. Metzen isn't the best writer put there, but what he does write has such a childish glee to it that it's really hard to hate him, even when he's pushing Green Jesus up the hill like Sisyphus and his boulder.

>>49685245
And getting his old OCs ported into Overwatch.

>>49685319
>He's not that good, but has passion for his trade

So, Metzen was Blizzard's Rob Liefeld?

>>49685478
Basically. But according to Blizzard employees, not near asUchiha of a colossal fuckstick behind the scenes like Liefeld was and is.

>>49685217
Why are you not including MoP?

>>49685609
MoP was fun[/quote].

>>49685609
To be honest with you, if you look at the three past expansions from a level playing field after the fact, the only one that was more bad than good for all the story content it brought to the table was WoD.

I'm not a fan of MoP, I feel they had a great chance to introduce new lore and create a legendary story, but that kind of legendary mythmaking didn't come until much later in the portrayal of the Celestials and the Thunder King in Chronicles(and guess who had a personal hand in writing that).

Cata similarly took a lot of stories from Vanilla further down the path of development, some for better, some for worse.

WoD had some good plot threads, I liked Arak and Frostfire and Shadowmoon was cool conceptually, but across the board the writing and lore was weak as fuck so it is most assuredly the 'worst' expansion of the lot in terms of what lore it brought to the table.

Then again, Wrath is the only one to have a flowing narrative from start to finish without any bullshit hiccups along the way that aren't just nitpicking assholes like us picking up 'flaws' that are really just story turns we don't like, so it's hard to compare any other expansion to that(Wrath isn't even my favourite expansion, I just think it's the most consistent with its storytelling).

>>49685609
MoP was for the most part a genuinely good expansion. The biggets problem was Siege of Orgrimmar, and even then the siege itself was pretty good and the dissapointing part comes mostly from the fact that to preserve the two faction system they had to make Alliance just give the Horde a stern talking to and go home.
That, and it being the last tier raid for 6 months.

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>>49685675

>>49685704
I left out why I like MoP. The lore was good but the story involving it was fried garbage of derivative lore that was done better in expansions prior or was just more of the same.

There's always a fucking caveat with MoP, I swear to god.

>>49685719
if garithos survived would we have blood elves as a qt slave race?

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>>49685746
No

>>49685746
No.

They'd all be dead if he had his way, along with every Dwarf and every Gnome and every Night Elf and every Worgen and every Pandaren, and every single member of the Horde.

And then everything else down to the last Murloc. Just to make sure.

And that's why his goals are impossible.

>>49685833
>impossible
I want to dream, of a human planet

Do you guys think Stormwind will fracture into 3-4 kingdoms for WoW 2?

>>49685890
Blizzard know that WoW 2 would blast themselves in the foot for one hundred reasons. It's not going to happen.

>>49682001
I just finished the Xe'ra quest at Black Temple and I was actually seething at the high-and-mighty attitude the fucking thing took towards me. Such a shame, I loved the lore surrounding the Naaru, but this...
*I* need redemption now? What the hell? I didn't instigate all the bullshit that went down in outland!

I didn't like the stupid Illidan retcon questline in the first place, but I didn't think too badly of it until just now. It was so bad, I actually had to log out due to simmering rage.

I *really* hope it actually is a servant of the old gods or some shit, because the alternative, shitty writing, would be worse.

>>49685746
Part me wants to say that Garithos is Imperium-levels of xenophobic, but it also wouldn't surprise me if he'd be one of those, "No one can do X except me," kind of asshole leaders.

In this case, boinking elves.

>>49686047
Illidan's death was pretty forced and poorly explained in TBC. It's less of a retcon and more filling in the gaps. TBC is pretty infamous for taking huge leaps in logic with no explanations when it came to why the Illidari were killing us and not joining us, and vice versa.

In the newest book, Akama is painted as pretty short sighted and petty. Which to be fair, he has always seemed to be. And Maiev? We always knew she was a sociopath.

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>>49685864

>>49685704
I really liked the lore WoD brought for the Arakkoa, Draenei and Draenor as a whole. Except Orcs; I felt it did more harm to Orcs than good, since it further contradicts the claims that they were noble savages before the fel corruption, and reinforces that they're generally massive hypocrites who jump at the chance to burn and rape.

As an overall story, though, it was pretty terrible; but I also hate time travel, so I could be biased. It DID have a consistent narrative, however.

WoD's biggest issue, though, was how little content there was throughout its entire life. The devs were pretty much pulled away from it almost entirely and double-down on Legion, and it really shows. For both expansions, really.

I always found it funny how tbc prior to legion and the book pretty much was Illidan going " reeeeee get off my floating shell of a world you fucking normies"

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>>49686129
It was only semi-consistent because there were huge gaps in logic present for the turnover of orcs from Iron Horde to our side, and there was also a complete lack of existing motivation for why the clans united and wanted to sack an alien world bar 'i cunvinced dem it wuz da legion - garrosh hellscream(pic related).

As for the orcs, there seems to be an underlying theme throughout WoD's earlier pieces of writing that the reason the orcs are so quick to take up arms and sack/pillage/enslave everything they see is because they're a young race that's preyed upon by literally every other one bar draenei on draenor due to being smaller(ogres, gronn, genesaur and pals) or more primitive(arakkoa). Meanwhile the draenei sit on their giant piles of gold and inside their massive, advanced cities and do nothing to help the orcs against what is the equivelant of a feral world in 40k. So when the chance comes to be persecutors and not the persecuted comes, they're of course going to leap at the chance. Unfortunately this was never explicitly stated and would still leave much to be desired in terms of the motivations of the multitude of orcs and their leaders.

>>49686079
Akama was maybe impulsive, but petty? I never got that vibe from him. And considering the scale of betrayal he ran during BC I doubt he's very shortsighted, either.
Maiev being slightly off the rocker, especially after losing Naisha, is fact, I agree on that. Still, she's probably one of the more sensible characters overall despite that, so here's to hoping she's not unceremoniously killed off in the inevitable Illidan Rebirth/Redemption event.

>>49686213
He knew Illidan was invading demon worlds and slaughtering them in a way the draenei could never dream of but got pissy about Illidan's means, and was also of the impression that after a few years(this guy had lived thousands of years need I remind you) that Illidan's hold on Karabor was unforgivable. Shortsighted is definitely the term I'd use to describe him.

While Illidan was kind of a dick, the level of buttfucking the Legion would deliver if they got the chance was far greater than anything Illidan could dish out, and the guy was hurting them in a way no one ever had before(bar the Army of the Light, it would seem), so take from that what you will about whether Akama wanting his temple back was justified or not.

>>49686079
>>49686213
>>49686260

I think Akama's actions towards Illidan were actually pretty reasonable, considering how their interactions were shown. Illidan was so full of himself that he never really felt obligated to share his plans with his subordinates. For all Akama knew, Illidan was just as bad as the Burning Legion (and some could argue that it's not really a poor assumption to make).

Shit, Illidan was using the souls of dead Draenei as fuel to power his portal engine. That's demonic sorcery right there. On top of that, he showed very little remorse for having to do it, and all he ever really said to Akama about everything, between promising to return the Black Temple to the Draenei, to using the souls as power, was "Just trust me, I got this," and it was all Akam really had to go on.

Akama was concerned that he was serving someone as bad as the Burning Legion, that's why he went against him. It's not because he didn't believe the Legion was a threat, or that he didn't believe in the greater good; just that Illidan was a pretty bad person, from what he witnessed.

>>49686260
Not him, but I will never understand how Illidan is supposed to be anything but a niggling little thorn in the legion's side. At the time of Outland he's got, what, a regiment worth of bloodelves, one tribe of broken, roughly that many naga, a bunch of demons and some demon hunters.
Compared to a force that is literally uncountable and sorta immortal that makes no sense, even when you train a bunch more scrub-tier demon hunters.

>>49686447
While I agree the fight was protracted, it's the first documented case of the demons losing on their own turf. The demons killed on a demon world will NEVER come back, and Nath'reza was a very big loss for the Legion in that regard. One doom lord dying permanently may not matter on the grand scale, but when you suddenly cut out the 'limitless' factor of the Legion by cutting into their numbers and actually effecting it, it becomes a different story.

And do't forget the orcs. Illidan had a whole lot of orcs(I swear not even the writers seem to remember Kargath was an Illidari commander).

>>49686260
Going by the info Akama had, i.e. not very much at all, taking out Illidan before he became an even bigger problem was probably the right decision.
I'd assume the decision-making process went something like this:
>Yes, the legion will be a problem in the future, but Illidan is a problem *right now*. My people are dying, their souls are being stolen, all of outland is tearing itself apart and he's also a colossal douchebag who deserves everything that's coming for him. So, fuck him.

>>49686495
>fel orcs
Holy shit, I totally forgot about those. Considering how much I used to rail on orcs always being shitters no matter where you are, that's kinda impressive.

>>49686576
I'm actually a huge fucking fan of the angle Fel Orcs could have taken if used right.

Imagine for a moment that there were TWO advisors for Garrosh in Northrend and that one was a reformed antagonist named Kargath Bladefist, who while reformed still hates those stinking pink-skins.

Things could have made so much more sense...

>>49686447
he was basically al-qaeda

>>49686626
That would require competent writers that want more than always good blue vs. always evul red because reasons.
The alliance lends itself perfectly for ck2 dickery, in the starting vanilla situation they even were there.

>>49682048
I agree, nuke the Naaru.

>>49686626
I disagree, between Garrosh's rampant daddy issues and Thrall's hero worship adding fuel to the fire, I feel that that particular development was well explained enough.

Now, the fact that most orcs seem to be pre-disposed towards psychotic violence, genocide and war crimes; that's a thing that should be explained, or at least adressed, at some point.
You can only go go 'proud shamanistic culture' so often before the evidence starts weighting in against you. Old Horde, Dark Horde, Fel Horde, True Horde, Iron Horde, it just adds up...

>>49686866
Only the True Horde really holds water in that regard.

The Iron Horde was just badly characterised.

I don't think Garrosh's turn was well written at all. They played up his wising up a bit and then had him kick out the majority of his forces and in doing so relinquished pretty much all his strategic hold on Kalimdor and everywhere else.

It was shit.

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>1994
>Playing Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans for PC
>Suddenly get gripped by a seizure
>Start hallucinating this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvYXoyxLv64 with the words 2012 superimposed
>Wake up in a cold sweat

What's your first reaction /tg/?

>>49686993
>Iron Horde
The entire fucking Iron Horde jumped at the chance to wage total war against another world were some people treated the Iron Horde's alternate universe counterparts kinda mean after they lost a war of total annihilation. On the way they casually murdered countless draenei alongside several other species, ravaged their own planet, desecrated their own ancestors and finally still dropped everything when offered the chance of demonic reinforcments.
The real shitty writing here is that we didin't put Grom on trial the moment Archimonde's face hit the dirt.

>>49687197
Immediately I thought the cannonfire between the two ships was dope as fuck and that this will be the last we'll see of any medieval/renaissance-esque fighting as it'll all go in favor of the "steampunk" airships and the like.
Then I started to think about how fucking stupid furries are and how much I'd like the bash them down after class.
Lastly I really felt an emotional connection to the bear's words as a Finnish man living during WW2.

>>49687221
They didn't desecrate their ancestors anywhere close to the level Gul'dan did. For the most part they still had plenty of functioning shaman.

>>49687197
What are you trying to convey here?

>>49687197
I see > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon4GV1u3uM

all is forgiven

>>49687197
I had pretty much given up on warcraft in tbc.
And blizz in general since sc2.

The ships gave me a pleasant itch.
Thought it was too silly as I watched.
I guess that was my first impression. I don't remember anything else atm.

Later on I appreciated it a bit. Looking at it as comedic version of the wc3 trailer.

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While their lore is cool and all, was the inclusion of the Draenei and the retcon created the most damaging change to Warcraft's story /tg/? Not only have orcs been reduced to side characters on their home planet but ever since this happened Warcraft has shifted from a fantasy/steampunk to something more like sci fi.

>>49687427
Their lore is cool and all, but it's impossible to say what corrupted Metzen and the writers towards the sci-fi/final fantasy orientation of world building.
After all, the "spaceships" weren't even afloat during the Burning Crusade, so they felt more grounded to reality because they acted as simple buildings.

>>49687427
Warcraft has always been high fantasy, it's just somewhat higher now,

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>>49687500
>somewhat

>>49687484
>but it's impossible to say what corrupted Metzen and the writers towards the sci-fi/final fantasy orientation of world building.
I think it is silver age super hero comics.
I hear Metzen started getting into them and thinking back on the stuff he did in the 90s as edgy and immature.

>>49686079
Petty?

TBC Akamas was a badass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6-C-_PJTa4

He is a broken and old fucked dude and when he saw a chance to fuck with a cunt warlord that built a harem on his temple and was using the souls of his ancestors.. He just did it.

And ok, TBC was bad written but this dont change the fact that illidan did nothing to stop a war with Adal or anything to prevent or stop Kael shit. Why on earth you would believe that someone that engage with stupid wars would be able to do anything relevant against demons? Illidam lost for himself and it would lose it anyway, Akama saw this coming and took the chance.

Maiev on the other hand is batshit insane, of course...

>>49686213
She'll probably forgive Illidan or they'll fuck off entirely to bang after the expansion

I'm hoping the latter

>>49686129
Arakkoa were the best part of the expansion. I know that doesn't sound like much, but I really enjoyed their quest lines in the Spires of Arrak.

>>49687197
"Huh, they made a china place with bear people kung fu masters. Neat"

>>49687427
>Not only have orcs been reduced to side characters on their home planet
Lol did you even play through TBC and Warlords? It was orcs orcs orcs for 75% of the fucking screen time.

>>49687526
damn, those invasions were fun

>>49687965
But they got the least characterisation. The Frostwolves got the most development and the orcs were left as hollow shells. The same cannot be said for the Arakkoa or Draenei.

>>49685469
there is literally nothing wrong with Soldier 76

>>49686047
TRUE BETRAYAL
FEEL IT ANON, FEEL IT

>>49687965
the orcs in Warlords were faceless mooks that barely got any characterization other than the Thunderlord, Warsong and Shadowmoon clans

>>49688744
Damn straight, he's the best overwatch character

>>49682001
Illidan will become the avatar of Sargeras Xera is Big K

>>49689545
There must always be a burning legion

>>49689581
>inb4 there must always be an Old God

>>49690013
>there must always be a dark titan
>and then illidan was a titan

What is the easiest path to power on Azeroth? The "so simple even a NEET could do it" abilities?

Also, if using the Fel too much can corrupt a person into a cackling madman, does an average person who somehow manages to use the Light a lot start finding themselves volunteering more often or being unable to ignore problems?

>>49690336
Fel energy and Void(Shadow Priest) magic are the quickest, but like you said, too much too fast will consume you.
Light tends to be manifest in a person of exceptionally strong willpower.
So you have to be very dedicated to your belief in the Light to make it work for you.
Not quite the "spend 30 years in a tower hunched over old tomes" discipline that mages have to endure for using the Arcane.
Shamanism is probably easier than Light, but it requires the Elements to meet you half way.
Druidism might work if you're hippy enough.

So you have your "I like to play with fire while doused in gasoline" in Fel.
Your "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" in Void.
Your "Math makes my penis hard" approach to magic in Arcane.
Your "I talk to rocks and they talk back" in Shamanism
Your "yiff is love, yiff is life" with druidism.
And your "I am a stalwart beacon of hope and justice and the rock on which the waves of Darkness will crash" in the Light.

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>Be a Human Alliance Priest/Pally
>Devote your entire life to being a faithful servant of The Light
>One day spaceship crashes on azeroth
>Out walks this alien guy
>Guy says he belongs to The Light's Chosen Race
>He's here because he has foreseen a climactic battle between The Forces of good and the Burning Legion, with his race on the good side and you and your fellow humans serving under him, because they are in fact The Light's Chosen race
>He also says he is in personal communion with The Light, more so than you will ever be, because he belongs to The Light's chosen race. In fact he even has some of The Light's personal Agents, known as the Naaru, on his ship who have given him and his race their personal blessing against the Legion, because of course, they are The Light's chosen race


What do you do /tg/?

>>49690687
Wasn't still roleplaying when that came out, but my paladin would have ignored them because they are obviously some sort degenerate race of demons. Have creepy glowing eyes just like elves too.

>>49690687
Wait and see for myself.

>>49690687
I would disagree with him, but I'd be willing to forgive his arrogance because the light teaches forgiveness, and work with him (not under him) against the burning legion

>>49690787
the light don't teach shit son, all dat knowledge uther is pressing in on you is just the state tryna keep you down homie

>>49682001
>Warcraft
>lore

>>49690687
Looks like a demon, better kill him just to be sure

So, is it just me, or do trolls seem to be strangely incorruptible? Like, there seems to be a very short supply of trolls who've actually been driven mad or addicted or overwhelmed by power or et cetera et cetera, at least not in the same way orcs and humans and elves have been. They do all sorts of questionable shit, of course, dealing with loa and stealing power from wild gods and so on, but they don't seem to get "corrupted" by it the same way. There's lots of times they end up in "oops I didn't kill the giant snake spirit hard enough and now it's going to torment my soul for all eternity" situations, but the mistakes they make are always their own mistakes, the kind they would have made to begin with, they don't seem to get into the same sort of "drink the demon blood" troubles that other races do.

In fact, their track record of using dark powers successfully seems very high. There are a lot of trolls that get themselves a power-up of some description and then have no problem using it, they just get done in by adventurers or something else not directly related to whatever evil mojo they sucked down. The power itself doesn't generally do anything but make them more powerful, as intended. Their personalities generally seem unaffected. And that actually seems kind of unusual?

>>49691021
Jesus.

>>49691021
All that we wuz shit doesn't leave enough to time for them to be corrupted.

>>49691021

Blizz doesn't really pay attention to trolls (as in the race). We only had like what? One high profile troll character and he recently got killed off after doing nothing.

>>49691021
trolls are already degenerate psychos so no one notices the difference when they get corrupted

>>49691042

We have troll dungeons, troll raids, whole troll patches. Sure, we're lacking in big-name persistent characters, but we've had a ton of smaller troll-centric stories and dozens of named troll villains. And, compared to humans, elves, orcs, ogres and probably others I'm forgetting, they all seemed to handle their forbidden powers pretty well, they just screwed up in more mundane ways, like "let some wandering mercenary murderhobo talk to the spirit of that god you just pissed off" or "get shanked by 10-25 randos because you decided to start shit with one or both of the world's major political powers, and you left the door open".

They don't seem to screw themselves over with the dark magic in and of itself, is what I'm getting at.

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>Many assume the ogres are insensate brutes, liking nothing more than destruction. Ogres have changed since the days of the Horde, however, possibly also due to their freedom from the influence of demons. More cunning than most give them credit for, ogre tribes keep somewhat at a distance from the other races as they have built a civilization. Villages are established in foothills, allowing ogres access to plains and forested areas.

>The new civilization of ogres has somewhat of a patchwork quality to it. Tribes are experimenting with different approaches, observing the other races as they seek to find their own way. Some groups are nomadic, while others have started small agrarian communities. All hunt, either as a primary or supplementary source of food. While rivalries and conflicts occur, ogres place great stock in listening to elders and allowing moderation of disputes. There is a loyalty to the race and at least some respect for the other races, though ogre interests are always addressed first and foremost.

>Ogres value endurance and insight more than simple strength. As strong as they are, they know that something out there is always stronger. Rangers are common among ogres,[1] combining skill with the knowledge of the land.

>Ogres test unfamiliar groups to determine their power and possible intentions. They try to avoid conflict, often by having ogre warriors make displays of aggression, smashing the ground and shouting at opponents, out of range of whatever weapons the opponents possess. As a last resort, ogres have some skill in formation fighting and will use a combination of charges and withdrawals to try to surround enemies. Ogres will throw spears at a distance in waves combined with the use of clubs, with possible magical support from ogre magi. When committed to a fight, these giants are completely dedicated, only breaking from an engagement if their leader commands it.

>>49691021
>short supply of trolls who've actually been driven mad or addicted
Maybe their regeneration ability goes beyond their bodies and helps maintain their psyche as well.

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>>49691292
>Despite their size and ferocious appearance, ogres are curious about the wider world and often seek to spread a more positive understanding of ogre culture. At the very least, an ogre hero can gain resources and allies for her tribe.

Maybe it's just a case of what could have been-itis, but ogres seemed much cooler in the RPG than what we have now.

>>49691292
>>49691303
ogres were pretty cool in WoD. I wish they'd been expanded on more, but there was too much cut content

>>49691132
This. The average Troll is a belligerent psychopath. They could get corrupted and no one would even notice until they start growing extra eyes or something.

>>49691021
Hakkar the Soulflayer. Or was he retconned to just Loa or some shit now?

>>49687427
more like draenei were the second fiddle to blood elves, orcs and more orcs and ogres.

One of the major attractions of Draenor was seeing draenor at the height of it's civilization. We got closed door karabor, half the settlements burning and shattrah city in a bubble.

What's the timeline for the WC2 campaigns?
The human campaign here seems to take place simultaneously with the orc campaign yet is played 2nd? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpEXhNjEeHY

>>49691261
I mean there was that one time one of the troll priests turned into a giant snake and thought it was a good idea.

>>49691461
The ORc campaign runs a little differently. They conquer most of Khas Modan but fail to establish a full foothold near southshore and isntead have to sorta skirt along Thoradin's wall up into the Hinterlands where they finally ally fully with the trolls, then they move north fuck up maybe Caer Darrow and then get get throrough much of Quel'Thalas's outer reaches before the elf-barrier stops them they head wouth through capital city, bypassing the Lordaeron defenses with the help of Alterac's traitor-king and then gul'dan (Who was busy making more Ogre-Magi using the ruins of the elf-stones as an excuse to stay behind under the watch of the dark shaman of the DragonMaw and his fucking dragons turned to the water on the way south, forcing the Dragonmaw to chase him and eventually forcing Doomhammer to send the Blackhand Brothers and THEIR forces after him, denying the victory.

Based on the Tides of War novel. (It doesn't go into details about Tyr's hand or Stratholme or anything so we don't know PRECISELY what happened there in canon)

>>49691517
Really I was just confused by the in-game campaigns. Seems like it's two timelines for the player to explore on either side, and I guess that canon was determined after.

>>49691461
I think the human campaign is slightly behind.
Orc1>Human1>Orc2 roughly

>>49690802
this.
Arthas was redpilled.

>>49691543
Blizzard didn't start to do same story different povs campaigns until the beyond the dark portal.

>>49691562
ah no wonder he's such a bitch then

>>49691392
Well he is a loa but not the wild god kind (Loa does not mean wild god but all wild gods are Loa)

So we've got Fel Tauren with tge Bloodtotems in highmountain

Any word on fel trolls/goblins/pandas?

>>49691739
>fel trolls
nelves

>>49691739
Fel trolls? You mean satyrs and blood elves.

Jokes aside I'd love to see fel trolls because trolls have that natural adaption.

Forest trolls confirmed to be moss skinned by the Strom'kar in game lore

>>49691748
nah that is arcane trolls

>>49691779
Strom'kar?

>>49691739
>Any word on fel trolls/goblins/pandas?
We saw "Fel Goblins" in Hellfire citadel, they used the Zombie Goblin skin from the third starting island.

Azshara xpac

- Alliance gets Vrykul
- Horde gets Naga(?)

I dunno what to give them aside from fuxkin murlocs or something

>>49691802
Arms legendary weapon.

Strom'kar the great sword used by King Thoradin.

>>49691820
Alliance already has Humans. Why would it need Bigger Humans™?

>>49691864
why do they need smaller angry humans and smaller smart humans
and taller magic humans

>>49691820
>alliance is the race of sexy amazons who will sit on your rogues' face to claim dominance.
yes

>>49691877
So you're saying the Alliance should get more not!humans despite already gaving plenty?

And, on top of that, add not!humans that are literally the origin of humans?

>>49691820
no

>>49692090
Frost Vrykul and Kvaldir?

>>49692090
the Alliance has been humans and human accessories since Wrath, why stop now?

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I want a vrykul woman to bully me and sit on my face.

>>49691292
I just want to know this:

Where are female ogres?

Or is the magical realm "ogres need to impregnate other species to make baby ogres" canon?

>>49692153
Okay, but why?

>>49692153
Are Vrykul playable?

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>>49690687

Hook up with one of the light's chosen women.

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>>49692273
>no space goat waifu and daughterfu to live a contented and blissful life with

>>49686047
>>49686079

Illidan is a fucking shitbag and whoever came up with the idea of redeeming him seems to be taking it from completely wrong angle.

I'd just like to know if it's because they are fanboy (fangirl?) attracted to manly elf demon hunter, or sympathises with him for being rejected by their love interest - or to mock and discredit the concept of redemption itself.

Maybe the point is to convince people that they're pulling kerrigan v2.0 only to come up with a tweest?

>>49692320
William King wrote the book on illidan.
lost a lot of respect for him there.

>>49692331
>fuck our lore and fuck our players, let's give a guest star the priority vote.

>>49692273
>>49692304
>no space goat waifu to do lewd things with

>>49692273
>>49692304
>>49692420
>tfw the draenei running out of men so they start asking human men to help them repopulate their species

>>49692413
actually willy plays wow and based the protagonist off his own night elf rogue.

It was still shit.

>>49692519
>guy who plays a night elf rogue is a shit writer
what surprise

>>49692551
what's wrong with night elf rogues?

>>49690336
easiest path to power is straight on scourge, just die somewhere in the vicinity of a horde of DKs and boom your are a DK, straight with power and the whole damn bit.

>>49692519
I don't mind explicit self-inserts in books, but they are scarcely sign of quality.

>>49692580
Not necessarily-DKs need to be specifically reanimated as such. Bigger chances for a no-namer are to be turned into a ghoul instead.

>>49692580
more likely
>you are corpserumbler, a fresh ghoul that will die in 10 seconds due to AoE attacks from bosses.

>>49692622
I once got an abom that rolled the name "Belchbelcher"
that was a fun minute before he got blown up by Corpse Shield

>>49686495
>(I swear not even the writers seem to remember Kargath was an Illidari commander).
Given that writers apparently forgot that Kargath was the only Warrior that was in the Inner Circle of Shadow Council, it's not that surprising.

At least Killrogg was badass.
>Bleeding Hollow Clan can look in the future so well that even time travel changing the future was not affecting them.

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>>49692714
>tfw pugging heroic Kilrogg

>>49687526
Looks like something straight out Homeworld series.

>>49692651
how useful is corpse shield anyway?

>>49692714
And Gorefiend. Don't forget the Gorefiend.

>>49687526
>totally OC content.

>>49692757
if you macro together Corpse Shield and Digestive Gasses or w/e the abom's defensive is called it's a 350k damage shield at level 100, I haven't played unholy since Legion came out so I can't say how good it is at endgame, but it was a decent defensive in HFC

>>49691392
Everyone and their grandmothers are Loa, or at least could become one.
That's how Trolls roll.

>>49692760
>ywn get Gorefiend's Truncheon as a weapon
>ywn use Gorefiend's Truncheon to imprison WoD Gorefiend in it and use it to bring original Teron once again to serve alongside you as Unholy DK

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>>49692304
>>49692420

>The Exodar sets out towards Argus, intent on retaking the homeworld

Do you and your draenei partner join the crusade, intent on giving your love her homeworld back against impossible odds?
Do you convince her to stay on Azeroth with its many dangers and adventures?
Do you convince her to move to the alternate history Draenor to live in peace with the draenei and the orcs?

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>>49692622
>>49692612
>ywn be the world's most talkative ghoul
>ywn have everyone question how you didn't lose your mind
>ywn explain to them that you were basically mindless already, so nothing has really changed

>>49692829
Even with the aid of my Necrolytes, I was unsuccessful in bringing forth this undead force. Failure and weakness were all that these minions could offer me, until I sensed that while their spirits were willing - it was the flesh that was weak. I summoned them to a great alter[sic] constructed of Ironwood and Blackroot where, at the height of a black incantation, I took the lives of every last one of them. In the bloody wake of their executions, the Necrolytes would then, at last, nourish my creation of the ultimate undead servant.

Using what few resources I still controlled within the Horde, I acquired many of the long-dead corpses of the fallen Knights of Azeroth. Into these twisted and decayed forms I instilled the essences of the greater members of the Shadow Council who were quite willing to return to the mortal plane to wreak terror and havok once again. I furnished each of the dark riders a jeweled truncheon through which they could better focus the unearthly powers they would brandish. Into these jewels were infused the raw, necromantic magiks of the freshly slain Necrolytes. Thus were the Death Knights born.

Orgrim Doomhammer was pleased with these Knights of Death. Although the spirits of the Shadow Council remained loyal to me, they feigned allegiance to the War Chief. Orgrim was well satisfied with the realization of my promise, and allowed me to go about my own affairs.

I will be patient and bide my time, pretending to be the faithful servant until the time comes to show this presumptuous, boisterous upstart who is greater between us. My designs to discover the Tomb of Sargeras still remain. I have assembled the Stormreaver clan to be my support when the season finally comes to strike back at Orgrim for his insolent crimes against me...

That day draws near - and Doomhammer cannot know what terrors await him,

for I am Gul'dan...

I am darkness incarnate.

I will not be denied.

>tfw Warcraft will never be this metal again

>>49692978
Ner'zhul was a better orc than Gul'dan in every respect.

Gul'dan is just a perpetual failure that keeps trying and succeeds only in finding new ways to fail.

10/10 would deny again.

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>>49692993
I wonder who could be behind this post

>>49692829
>wanting a bunch of weakling warlocks.

>>49692993
That isn't really that hard when Gul'dan is the very reason why Horde lost the 2nd war.

>>49693014
he is literally right though. Ner'zhul kept the horde together on a dying world and tried a gambit

Gul'dan lost the horde the second war by trying to gain unlimited power.
People forget that nuGuldan was garrosh's battery if not for khadgar.

>>49693033
I wonder if they pull alt-nerzhul out of the void to pose as a big (or lesser) boss in the subsequent void expansion, like they recycled alt-gul'dan

>>49693051
ner'zhul got merced in a dungeon.

>>49693059
b-but his power will ripple across eternity

>>49693059
Just a setback.

>>49693051
>twisting nether xpack
>horde gets to see various dead prime and alt universe orcs bicker among themselves and comparing who did the most badass shit
>meanwhile alliance gets to kill stuff like evil lothar, uther, jaina, etc.

>>49693069
>implying blizzard gives even a singular shit about lore

>>49693073
>lich king ner'zhul and alt'zhul 's broken soul fragments fuse together
>become a random raid boss because of reasons

>>49693103
>ner'zhul now exists across all timelines.

>>49693578
what part of ripple across eternity do you not understand

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>the old gods haven't taken over yet
>we aren't having tentacle orgies in the streets

AWAKEN MY MASTERS when

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>>49693931
iktf Twilight bro

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Is there a more redpilled character in WoW than Taran Zhu?

>>49693991
Garrosh.

>>49693991

>Legion finally invades Pandaria

>Taran Zhu calls them a bunch of racist outsiders who should leave

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>>49694041
>implying you wouldn't want to see all of Pandaria team up against the Legion
>saurok Viet Cong shenanigans
>yaungol doing massive charges while ON FIRE
>mantid swarming like fucking Starship Troopers
>Shado-Pan going at it with all the explosives and cannons they kept around
>Celestials tearing into shit like the Ancients did 10k years ago
Seriously, does none of this make you moist?

>mogu doing fuck-all since they're shitters who can't get anything done without Lei Shen

>>49692949
>Draenei living in peace with the orcs
>Implying Yrel and Durotan didn't fuck Grom's shit up a thousand different ways the moment Archmemer Kekgar stepped through the portal back to Azeroth

>>49694177
>>mantid swarming like fucking Starship Troopers
mantid got fucked up in MoP and have to wait a few hundred years to swarm again
rip in peace Paragons

>>49693991

What canonically happened to the Pandarens after SoO? Did they all return to the Island (I'm assuming Ayla and Ji are just in SW/Org for gameplay purposes) except for a handful of loyalists?

>>49694402
hopefully gassed by the foresaken.

>>49694480
Pandaren? The one race that have actually done nothing wrong?

I mean, I understand if the purity of such a concept repels you and I grant you leave to go and wallow in the sewer under the house you used to live.

>>49694177
That would be awesome.

>>49694402
Probably having a furry orgy with worgens and taurens.

>>49693078
>evil Jaina

well, not really evil, but I would be surprised if he doesn't turns into a boss. We can already fight her in End Times...

>>49694244
I'd love to see this, if only for avoiding the "orcs can do no wrong" bullshit for once.

>>49690594
>And your "I like to stare into the sun and talk to it for hours" in the Light.

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What the fuck is this guy's deal?
As a lich, he was probably either an orc death knight who Ner'zhul converted into a lich (like generic WC3 liches), or a human member of Cult of the Damned. Either way, he was an evil bastard out of his own free will, unlike Knights of the Ebon Blade, who were mind controlled by Arthas.
Yet after Light's Hope Chapel, he's apparently like - WTF, I hate Lich King now, and switches sides, even though he wasn't even present there. Why? What could possibly guide him to betray Arthas and side with a bunch of renegade death knights?

>>49692132
Man half this expack is Night Elf Problems.

I'm sorry Blizzard doesn't like Dwarf Politics.

I guess they thought the story....didn't have any LEGS!

>>49692714
Poor Kargath keeps getting forgotten.

>>49695689
>Why? What could possibly guide him to betray Arthas and side with a bunch of renegade death knights?
he had tenure teaching in Acherus

besides, have you seen what a decent necropolis costs in Icecrown?

>>49694041
"Yes., Yes we are."

"oh :("

>>49695689
KotEB aren't really renegade anymore. They're serving the new Lich King now. So Bolvar probably sent him over to help them.

>>49695916
Amal'thazad has been around since WotLK. He's the DK Frost Trainer. He's also the only "good" lich in WoWcraft lore, I think.

>>49696165
they probably have his phylactery.

>>49696220
lewd

>>49692225
Blizzard couldn't be bothered to create female ogre model. They are mentioned few times ingame

give me some dank khadgar memes

>>49691392
In Chronicles he's the Loa of Blood. But Loa is a very broad definition. The Troll magic system is very different from the human or elvish one.

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Remember when Blackhand's daughter ran off to shag an ogre?

>>49694402

Kun-Lai summit and a few other places are invaded by the Legion, you get to see it during the monk weapon/class hall stuff. Ayla and Ji are hanging out on the turtle again but are apparently also still hanging out in SW/Orgrimmar as well, since they're there during the get-together after the Broken Shore intro.

I feel like there's still some Blizz people who want to push pandas into the background again, given that the Sylvanas-warchief cinematic was carefully angled to not show Ji being there, even though the other Horde leaders were all displayed and he was physically present.

I get that some people have an allergic reaction to pandas for being silly or goofy or furry or whatever, but that sort of thinking is part of why we got an expansion of HURR BACK TO OLD WARCRAFT NOTHING BUT ORCS AND SPIKES LOK'TAR OGAR GRAB YOUR SWORD AND FIGHT THE HORDE idiocy, to try make the anti-panda kind of person happy.

>>49697053
There is nothing wrong with killing blackbloods, it is just that they had to go with a lame ripoff of the Old Horde instead of the real deal.

>>49697053
>implying they didn't already decide what the next expansion would be during MoP's development

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>>49696627

>>49697114

Also that we got basically nothing BUT orcs for a whole expansion. Either we were fighting orcs or helping draenei fight orcs or helping birds fight orcs or watching orcs fight orcs or orcs fight elementals or fighting orcs who had demon buddies.

And this after months of the last patch of the previous expansion ALSO being orcs orcs orcs.

>>49696981
Ah, Deadmines... lot of history there. (though I have to admit, I had to check if the dungeon was deadmines or northshire abbey, I couldn't remember)

>>49697267
Northshire abbey was where you met up with Garona in the orc campaign

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Remember when the Horde was good?

>>49697449
Blame the tauren. Corrupted the noble ideals of the orcish ways.

>>49697173
And they cut a lot of WoD content (Gorgron having more stuff with the Blackrock clan, Farahlon being in the game as the home of Laughing Skull clan, HFC being an Iron Horde-themed raid where you fight Grom) because of "Orc Fatique". Although they really should have thought about that before deciding to me an entire expansion centered around Orcs, instead of realising midway through the thing "hey, maybe we're having too much Orcs?".

>>49697312
what was the place you destroy in the orc campaign where you have limited units and the AI has oan encampment?

I remember the alliance side was destroying the temple of the damned. Wish there was a place like that in the swamp of sorrows in wow.

>>49697598
That place isn't named.
It's just a human war camp.

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>>49690687
I /suffer well/

>>49695689
He's probably an orc death night, and he probably didn't join the death knights out of sudden-onset morality, but rather because teaming up with them was less likely to get him killed for real than staying with the Lich King

and judging by how all other canonical liches go, he was probably right

>>49692551
>>49692331
>>49692413
William King wrote Gotrek and Felix, so I really think this comes down to the editorial demands. Which is why I can forgive Golden's bad work.

>>49697449
No, go fuck yourself Kosak.

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>>49694835
>he doesn't praise the Sun
Look at this faggot. Look at this faggots and laugh.

Does anyone else want to see more of shadow magic in it's "good" aspect? Like, the Light is usually good, but we've seen more malevolent side as well, Scarlet Crusade, harsh blinding fire burning the infidels and so on. But I think the only time we've seen Shadow as a good thing is with arakkoa and Anzu, where it had a liberating, protective aspect, with themes of comfy seclusion and contemplation.

>>49693991
>stops Thrall and Wryn
from executing the orc who wated to destroy all of azeroth and genocide his people because he didndu nuffin, he deserves trial

literally the biggest cuck in warcraft

>>49697456
The Bloodtotem tribe kept the ideals of orcs better then orcs themselves

>>49693991

I don't know, but he landed the biggest burn in the history of azeroth.

>Your father dabbled in powers "beyond reckoning". Where is he, now?

>>49698571

Shadows gather when the raven swallows the day.
Burning sky is extinguished as black wings fold gently about the heavens.
Rest, my children, rest. For even the sun must sleep.

>>49697449
Let me jump this one real quick if I may.

Although their brutality and their evil vein was clearly overplayed, the premise of pre-warcraft 3/Frozen Throne orcs is actually more evened out and a better portrayal of a tribal culture joining together as a Horde. It's important to note that only the Orcs were 'The Horde', and Ogres and Trolls were auxiliary forces, at best.

With the rise of WoW came a very paradox characterisation of them supposedly being a tribal confederation while at the same time assuming a national identity, a thing that would cause much tension and wasn't addressed throughout modern Warcraft lore.

Also I much preferred Orcs to not _only_ be roidraging hulks but have actual variety in physique, as well. For example Grom was supposed to be slender and wiry for an orc, which they killed with basically cost-efficient in-game depiction in WoW.

Also >>49697456 is just a symptom, not an effect. The writing direction wanted orcs to go the noble savage route and needed an element to further that journey. Tauren as a basic concept would have been just as violent and heavy metal as all the Warcraft 2 Horde races.

>>49698739
MoP was worth it just for the Zhu and Lorewalker's Cho stories

Shame Blizz forgot about them both

>>49698802
Speaking of Tauren:

Seeing how Blizzard has already a history of being awfully close in designs to Warhammer (Whether by choice or not, I'll let you decide), I would have loved to play Tauren as stand-ins for Gor/Beastmen of Chaos, with less retardation.

>>49698802
>>49698820
Nah fuck you guys, WC3 was the height of the Horde.

>>49698802
>With the rise of WoW came a very paradox characterisation of them supposedly being a tribal confederation while at the same time assuming a national identity, a thing that would cause much tension and wasn't addressed throughout modern Warcraft lore.

That's not so hard to explain. The orcs in the WoW Horde are the remnants of an alien army trapped on an alien world surrounded by enemies, whose allies are different species with different cultures to their own; they would have focused on their common heritage and gained a very strong sense of unified orcish culture.

Plus, in that time, they went through not one but TWO spiritual revolutions, first abandoning all their old ancestor and elemental spirit worship for demons (encouraged by the allure of the mountain dew), then turning back to a unified version of spirit worship.

See, previously, all the tribes had their own different traditions, rituals, festivals, naming conventions, et cetera. But all of these would have been kept and maintained by the shamans, by tribal elders and by chieftains - and, by the time of WCIII, there were basically none of any of those left. The only orcs left on Azeroth were members of the army, peons, a few warlocks who ran away when things turned against them, and Drek'Thar. There was a point in time where Drek'Thar was the ONLY orc shaman left. Then he taught Thrall, and him and Thrall taught the others. And given that all the other orcs could see this shaman stuff was the real deal, because it gives you magic powers, and they weren't theologians, they all signed up to it. So all the orc shamans follow frostwolf traditions, and all the non-shamans go along with the rituals and traditions that those shamans dictate because that's what shamans are for, taking care of the ritual and tradition shit while you take care of your much more important work, stabbing and stabbing accessories.

>>49698802
>>49698820
What I also found really appealing was how the orcs dealt with their spellcasting:

In most animistic religions such as shamanism and other nature religions, the spirits were already sinister and elusive entities, and you would only deal with the darkest and malevolent spirits to help in a war effort or strike an enemy through magical means. To see the orcs as a tribal people utilising magic in such a theme feels very... accurate?

Even funnier to me is the approach in Warcraft: Adventures where Thrall utilises good old orc shamanism, but still has to treaty with a mythical underworld. I think it's a shame that's completely gone, now.

In the same vein, I was quite disappointed when they introduced Blood Elves into the Horde. In the Frozen Throne booklet, they were described as turning towards (superficially) more sinister powers. You did not really get anything like that in Burning Crusade. They were just sparkly recoloured elves.

I would have loved to see them fall into their own kind of tribalism, possibly with the surviving elven noblehouses elbowing themselves into the power vacuum of a collapsed kingdom with Lor'Themar having to play the mediator between them so maintain some form of unity.

>>49698941
That's both me. I jsut had an addendum.

And I agree, baseline the Warcraft 3 Horde was the least retarded with the most human facets. They were most relatable while maintaining most of their own character. It is still however that the whole of the Horde definitely had a less tribal substance while having much more superficial noble savage style applied.

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>>49698805
WoD and Legion are just Lorewalker Cho telling us stories. There was no invasion or anything bad that happened after Pandaria.

>>49699108
Why do his stories suck, then?

>>49699126
Look he's used to telling histories, this is his first time making up entirely new stories!

>>49699083
That's a good explanation, however I don't think we can/should view the original Horde as a purely military force.

Based on their tribal culture, each matured adult orc would be a hunter, a craftsman and a defender of their clan's territory. I would say it follows that the Orcish Horde isn't purely an army but much more a migrating people with sufficient warlike capacity. Everyone and their grandmother could basically come on the big fieldtrip to Azeroth as long as they could prove they weren't too much of a hindrance and actually beneficial to the overall migrating effort.

Based on this, I would actually say that there were enough people remembering their respective clan's traditions at least in basic concept to at least continue in an extremely simplified fashion.

It would just follow that due to the kool aid's withdrawal effects and the humiliating defeat and perhaps also official regulations, that the interned orcs just couldn't give enough of a fuck to really practice these traditions in captivity until Thrall came along.

I would actually argue that, after Thrall came along, most of the Orcs would have found at least some spark of curiousity to explore their cultural roots.

I do agree however on the "We're orcs, that's what counts" aspect of your post.

>>49694177

No, everything about Pandaria was wrong and is rightfully forgotten never to be used again except for a few shitters playing disgusting fat panda chars.

>>49699465
Pandaria was the first FULL expansion to really recatpure the feeling of exploration from Vanilla, Wrath did it pretty well.

>>49699525
True dat, it was the first expansion where we got to explore a continent that we knew almost nothing about.

Also, da Thunda Kang

>>49699525
Wrath did it pretty well but some of it wasn't quite right*

Sorry about that musta accidentally deleted it while posting.

>>49699525
>>49699546
They could've used a different setting entirely to do this, nevertheless.

>>49697759
Koltira is such a fuccboi

>>49699525

No, Pandaria set the precedent for expansions being about one and only one theme as to not confuse the retards. Cata started it but Pandaria made it worse.

Before we got expansions that affected many areas of the game what with wrath being much more focused on politics between the factions and characters and whatnot. Cata at least gave us a rework of the old world etc.

Pandaria gave an island with fat faggy bears and some placeholder races who were forgotten as soon as the next tier hit. The only world-changing things in Pandaria happened in the last raid tier, otherwise the whole expac was just a distraction. WoD continued this, but worse, since absolutely nothing interesting happened in the whole expack.
Legion is showing some promise, but I wouldn't be to optimistic about it, probably the wardens will fade back into obscurity and for example the nightborn will never again be even mentioned.

Up until cata blizzard was building a living world. Since then, they've been content on tacking some shit on top to satisfy the add riddled teenagers who need something new and shiny every week only to forget the last weeks shiny thing.

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>>49697449
Yup

>>49699617
What was the theme of pandaria?

>>49684628
>Pandaren
>Worgen

They sure tried to, though.

Tauren get a pass from me due to their sheer lack of cancerous players, or players in general, as well as my own impartialness.

>>49696220
Probably. I like to think the guy saw the DKs come back and start ganking shit that wasn't going along with their "Fuck the Lich King" direction and just rolled with it.
Then they actually up and fucked the Lich King and by that time 'Ol Amal decided he liked his unlife and actually threw in with the guys who up and murdered everything in Northrend that looked at them funny and wasn't the Argent Dawn.

>>49696981
I love how clicking that image makes him seem slightly more alert.

>>49699793

Pandering the chinese audience.

>>49700224
Isn't that similar to saying that vanilla was pandering to the WC III fanboys?

>>49700414
Not really, WoW was basically WC3 at the very start and then expanded. You can't say it's pandering if the lore and everything else is the same.

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>>49696627

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>>49700439
>Pandering


Well, the Pandaren had a good bit of their lore already established after wc3. Things like the shado-pan and their relation to the spirits have been established since the sourcebooks of the RPG (not canon, but correlated nontheless). MoP just built ontop of that foundation and added new things like the Mogu, Mantid and their relation to the titans.

I'm not sure, but basn't pandaria even planned as the first expansion for a short time?

>>49700583
The fuck? Is Khadgar, the old greying wizard of WC2 meant to be Alliance leader now? and I know about his premature aging, fuck writers' bullshit.

>>49700414
Vanilla was set a short while after wc3 tft. That was the selling point.

>>49699793

Fat useless bears and their whogivesafuck island.

>>49700593

What does it matter that pandas were established in the lore when the whole expac was a tacked on device to corrupt Garrosh and promptly get forgotten.
The whole pandaland and pandas are now irrelevant along with the yaungol, mantid, mogu, sauroks and whateverthefuck they called the other tacked on meaningless races around there.

I really wish blizzard would develop the world they've created instead of having the expacs be basically "here's some new island, go there for the next year-and-a-half before forgetting all about it, none of what happens there matters in the old areas, nothing ever changes, just shut up and look at the shiny new things"

>>49698752
50 Shades of Shadow?!?!?!?! PUT THAT BACK THIS INSTANT PERCIVAL

>>49700703
no, he's an Archmage of Dalaran who lead the joint offensive into AU Draenor and is now leading Dalaran through Legion

>>49700880
That's applicable to all expansions though, with cata being an exception. Revamping the whole world after adding new content would consume immense rescources.

At least now with the level scaling mechanic, which I'm sure isn't stolen from any other MMORPG, massive world revamp would be easier, as they wouldn't have to care about character level in zones... zones could scale to the character, not vice versa.

But I'd be very surprised if Blizzard would do something good with it without fucking up.

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>>49699525
>Wrath did it pretty well.

Not it didn't. Wrath had a clear endgame from the beginning. Vanilla and MoP didn't. If Wrath was trying to capture the exploration of a new world theme, it failed miserably.

>>49701411
Wrath's SIDE areas did it very well, Zul'Farak, Sholazar, Grizzly Hills, parts of Borean Tundra and Howling Fjord, even Ulduar had a good feel of exploration to them. So did a few tidbits of Dragonblight.

>>49701411
>>49701479
I can't speak for BC because even though I played during it I just got so frustrated in Hellfire Peninusla on a PvP server where my side was in the minority that I quit.

KEL'THUZAD RETURNING WHEN

>>49701622
Just let go of WoW my friend.
Bring 'em to your friendly Crusader Kings 2, Total War, Warband/Bannerlord arenas.

>>49701411
Wrath had a good feeling of exploration because it was the first overhaul of the game engine allowing for larger, more detailed zones to go quest in and discover new stuff.
Yes, you know everything leads to Arthas, but there's a perfectly big world to explore and discover new things and new plot threads that are only tangentially, if at all, related to Arthas and the scourge.

>>49701479
I always found Zul'drak to be a weird zone
why is the Drakkari eating their gods supposed to be such a horrific, moral event horizon-crossing act? Why should I give a single fuck about a bunch of glowing blue animals that openly admit to wanting to kill me if I weren't saving them? Why isn't their power better off being wielded against the Scourge instead of me and the Crusade?

>>49692273
>>49692304
Would things work out if I hid that I was a Shadow Priest?

I am torn between waifu 4 laifu and the eldritch power of the void.

>>49701828
I'd presume the Draenei deal with the Shadow uniquely as their main adversary spanning the millenia has chiefly been the Burning Legion and the Fel.

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>>49701850
Waifu AND Old Gods?

Ah yiss.

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>>49701850
>>49702045
Aren't the Auchenai soulpriests ferrying draenei souls practicing shadow magic without any old god influence?
dank as HELL

>>49701828
>>49701850
Well, Soulbinder Tuulani was a Shadow Priest. Whether that was limitations from gameplay to represent the Auchenai priesthood, or a reflection of how the Auchenai work from a lore standpoint, is unknown.

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>IN THE LIGHT WE ARE ONE

What did he mean by this?

>>49702145
he means that Yrel got VINDICATED.com before he died

>>49702145
> Draenei eyes.

Theoretically, could a Death Knight go unnoticed amidst their ranks? Confirmation on this would be most appreciated, and you would receive my utmost thanks.

>>49702145

Yrel is Maraad's MU wife/gf who died in Draenor.

>>49702243
draenei death knights tend to be weirdly pale so someone might get suspicious about that

also the unearthly chill of death might draw attention after awhile, but if you're a female people will just think it's because of that

>>49702300
> Sheltered Draenei don't notice that other races don't usually have glowing blue eyes.
> "I'm quite sensitive about my low body temperature. It is a rare medical condition found amidst my people. Plz no bully."
> "Why yes, many human possess the strength of five mort- people."
> "No. That is not a walking corpse, it is a skin condition. He's foaming at the mouth? Well it looks like you offended him. Shame."

>Complete DK class hall campaign

>Feel disgusted with myself

>Feel disgusted at DKs

>Delete character

>>49702414
I thought the ending was fun.

>>49701768
>why is the Drakkari eating their gods supposed to be such a horrific, moral event horizon-crossing act?

Because its edge!! And it is awsome! And is still better than be killed, corrupted and ensaleved on your corpse.

>Why should I give a single fuck about a bunch of glowing blue animals that openly admit to wanting to kill me if I weren't saving them?

Because you are a stupid muderhobo that just accept every single task than any simpleton gives you not matter how stupid, dangerous or impossible it seems.

> Why isn't their power better off being wielded against the Scourge instead of me and the Crusade?

It should be.. but then the gods found some stupid murderhobos wandering there...
"Hey go kill all these cunts.."
"Ok, LoL"

And then they are just ripping the empire apart... Crazy World huh?

>>49702414
>tfw the DK campaign weeds out all the cowards unfit to bear the Lich King's banner
Ebon Pride world wide
gas the Legion, 5th War now

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>Meet Havi in Stormheim

>Havi sounds and acts exactly like Cho from Pandaria

>Havi and Cho are the same person, Odyn's earthly avatar who was interested in my heroic potential back then and knew he would face me in combat one day

Thats deep Blizzard

>>49702506
just cook the damn stew anon, I'm hungry

>>49702243
Nah... Draenei would notice anything that dosent cockworship the light... Like a sould and corpse corrupted by shadow magic.

>>49699083
>>49699088
Its all gone...

Shamanism is all about understaining the occult, the spirits of the nature and our ancestors and how they blend together on the reality. The elements should be just a catalyst.

But since the cataclysm it is all about some Captain Planet shit... You have four elements, put some Thunder on your Doomhamer and go smash things!

You are a healer? No, you are not a spiritual healer. Its water power dude!

And dont worry trying to figure out how the spirit wolf blends with this shit, soon we will put fire and thunder on them too...

I could be mad, but then I noticed that i almost created a Troll priest back on Wrath... THAT would make me mad now!

>>49702506
There is some storys on mythology about Odin doing crossdressing but a Panda is too much...

>>49683545

At its best, it was as good as WHF, and even though the bullshit started to hit WC first, it's holding up longer before it falls into full AoS-level shittery.

>>49702523
It's a fucking skin condition!

>>49702681
Well, sir, the condition of your skin is terrible.

>Look up 7.1 patch notes.

>Kharazan is rehashed as a 5-man.

>A new Suramar quest chain time gates to last 9 weeks

>Falcosaur invasion event

>Legion is quiet and Guldan hasn't been seen since Broken Shore

Could Blizzard at least pretend to know where the plot is headed instead of stalling?

>>49702770
>>49702770
>>49702770
>>49702770

New Thread

>>49702145
He means that he can cheat and use invulnerable bubble on her even after Divine Intervention was removed from the game, despite Divine Shield being self-only spell

>>49701768
Well... imagine druids eating Cenarius for extra power.

Or pandas doing the same with Celestials.

They are all the same category, wild gods... and that power isn't meant for mortals.

>>49702847
>Well... imagine druids eating Cenarius for extra power.
>Or pandas doing the same with Celestials.
I literally wouldn't care
Cenarius was a bitch and the Celestials are retards. Malfurion and Hamuul going super sayian would be infinitely more useful than having Cenarius around

>>49702847

I want Magatha to use the Doomstone to somehow eat Therezane and become a giant chubby rock cow grandma raid boss.

>>49698125
the later G&F books were kinda sorta bad.