Shadowrun General: Vaporwave Edition

File: ss+(2016-09-29+at+05.15.40).png (50KB, 296x299px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 296x299px

>>49561008
Since I think that quote is taken from 4e Anniversary, this should apply. I don't think they got around to printing any advanced astral travel rules in 5e but at the same time, there's been no specific retcon.

As for living earth, you're magically shaping it, it's probably enough to make it 'altered' and no longer part of the natural world. A door is a door, not a part of the hill. But I think the Concealment powers (and MAYBE spirits' abilities to shape things, if you're the type to consider spirits a part of nature rather than a construct of the human mind-- That part was all so much easier when shamans were different) could at least hold off the majority of magical snoopers. And if they don't walk right past the spirit, you're still alerted, AND the spirit is punching them in the head.

Also, you probably want to allow for holes for air, exhaust, etc. Logistically, piped in water is probably better than from a truck, but you can probably dig a well to give yourself enough to do some. It won't supply a large farm, but aeroponics can be really efficient. But the more of that you do, the more regular upkeep is required, which isn't always gonna be simple.

>>49560886

>>49561171
>4es anniversary
Core Book of 5e, page 314, left side, before Manifesting.

>>49561171
Also, it isn't a door. It's solid earth, reshaped back into the form it was originally in.

I mean, technically speaking, I think I could just put up a high-strength Ward/Attack Barrier partway down the tunnel so that it interlocks with the natural earth and prevents travel that way.

>>49561244
Really? It's copy/pasted verbatim, then. But it's not really used in a way that entirely prevents the possibility of moving through it there, since, y'know, that was added.

>>49561266
It's still altered. And intended as a door, more or less. I don't think Shape Stone is enough to make it a living part of the Earth's aura, basically. At that point it's more or less engineered. I'd guess that there's probably ways to make sure it's integrated with the Earth's aura, but you'd have to expend some actual effort.

>>49561311
Except that's wrong. You're basically using a magical shovel.

If hand-carving wood doesn't make it less natural, then how does moving stone make it less natural?

Does moving a boulder into a zen garden make that boulder less of a natural boulder, somehow? No, it doesn't.

>>49561347
Hand-carved wood is not living earth. It's natural for telesmatic purposes but it doesn't have an aura.

>>49561354
Right next to hand-carved wood, "soil" is listed, so yeah, that's basically the same equivalent.

>>49561455
You're not understanding me. What makes something "Living Earth", with an aura, and impermeable (or at least hard to move through), is not how natural it is. It's the fact that the Earth itself has an aura, leading some to conclude that it's a living being. Materials that are on their own simply natural, and not a part of the aura of the Earth itself, are just as dull and permeable on the Astral as processed materials.

>>49561489
Earth's aura reclaims the moved land after a period of time. Let's say something like 23 hours and 36 minutes, give or take.

>>49561489
I mean, if you wanna give a source on that...

>>49561566
Eh, I'd buy it.

>>49561567
kinda depends on whether you're going to accept any edition except the incomplete one

>>49561622
If you have a source, post it up.

They're all incomplete.

>>49561634
Well, here's one. I know there IS a place where they mention the theory that the earth itself is alive, but I can't remember which of the like, eight possible sources across five game editions that was in.

File: ss+(2016-09-29+at+06.24.30).png (393KB, 808x931px) Image search: [Google]

393KB, 808x931px

>>49561679
I broke it.

>>49561688
But that's not anything related to moved earth no longer being part of it when placed back properly.

>>49561720
No, that's a conclusion that has to be drawn by the individual GM. I can't think of anything that says specifically on that specific edge case, so it has to be determined by the individual.

>>49561736
Alright, so basically what you're saying is that you were speaking out of your ass with no actual basis for it whatsoever.

The earth is solid in the astral. If the stone is natural and integrated with the surrounding natural stone, then it presumably is the natural stone, and presumably has the same, impermeable, aura.

Even if it doesn't, something along the lines of it recovering at the same rate as Astral Hazing hurts the manasphere would at least be a vaguely-rules-derived answer, and be better than "Gee boss I dunno man"

File: ss+(2016-09-29+at+06.34.20).png (44KB, 424x162px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 424x162px

>>49561736
>>49561720
This is a bit clearer, from 3e Magic in the Shadows.

>>49561758
I mean the first thing I said was that it was going to have to be arbitrated, before I gave what my arbitration would be (which was to say that you'd just have to do something extra to specifically have it integrated with the Earth's aura).

Where does it actually say that you can use Reagents to set the Limit for a spell rather than the Force? I know you can do it for Alchemical stuff, but for actual Spellcasting directly.

Does it still work if you put the spell in a Sustaining Focus?

>>49562825
Page 317 and probably. Page 317 gives you almost all the uses for reagents, by the way.

File: Nadja Daviar.jpg (19KB, 200x219px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 200x219px

>>49560368
Daviar disappeared during Crash 2.0. Everyone assumed she was dead, but she reappeared in 2073 (upsetting the applecart when it came to the Draco Foundation, UCAS politics, and everything else where people had assumed her power). She passed the stringent identity tests people put her through, but IMO she still might be something else

File: Decker Datajack Bradstreet.gif (58KB, 296x410px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 296x410px

Datajacks: Great cyberware, or best cyberware?

>>49564485
Meh cyberware. Just get trodes or AR gloves.

File: Troll Decker.jpg (447KB, 870x1243px) Image search: [Google]

447KB, 870x1243px

>>49564564
You lack wizness. Begone from this Matrix!

>>49564654
That's an orc. A troll would have horns or at least stubs to show that they have been clipped or filed.

>>49564485
Best cyberware. Unless you are Awakened or really tight for Essence, and even then.
People don't realise how great they are because the just see "provides a DNI and 1 point of Noise reduction", but the possibilities of a DNI are near endless. It's a double edged-sword though, you must have a good decker running overwatch on your gear.

>>49564485
Almost as good as Skilljacks

>>49562825
>Where does it actually say that you can use Reagents to set the Limit for a spell rather than the Force?
>Spellcasting: In a pinch, you can spend reagents to set the limit for Spellcasting. Rather than using the spell’s Force as the limit, use the number of drams of reagents spent.
Page 317. Keep in mind, though, that the spell still has its normal Force for the purpose of Counterspelling and any effects which build off of Force.

For example, if you cast a Force 1 Lightning Bolt at someone but use Reagents to set its Limit to 15? It's still going to have the base damage and AP of a Force 1 spell, even if you can accrue tons of hits for it.

So I'd call it situationally useful at best.

Question: if I have a strength of one but have cyber arms with strength 9 and wear a helmet for +2 Armor and carry a shield for + 6 am I over encumbered or not?

>>49565750
Yes, because the rest of your body can't handle the stress. If your str was 3 or even 2, maybe, but 1? Nope.

>>49565750
>if I have a strength of one but have cyber arms with strength 9 and wear a helmet for +2 Armor and carry a shield for + 6 am I over encumbered or not?
For this, you would follow the limb averaging rules, because the weight also goes to, for example, your legs. If your GM is using just the four limbs for averaging, your effective Strength is (9+9+1+1)/4=5. It only gets worse from there, if your torso or, god forbid, skull gets included too, averaging out instead to 4.2 (rounded up to 5), and 3.66 (rounded up to 4) respectively.

So yes, you're exceeding your encumbrance capacity by 3 or 2, depending on the calculation method, which means you take a -1 to your relevant scores.

If your GM follows the four-limb or four-limb-and-torso rules, though, ditching the helmet would eliminate the penalty.

Do headcases have essence? Its not really there body so they shouldnt really be affected by the mental aspects of being dehumanized.
Like Rietcher but more of a dick.

>>49565977
>Do headcases have essence?
Yes.

>Its not really there body so they shouldnt really be affected by the mental aspects of being dehumanized.
Essence is the mystical force linking a living body to the Astral, not some psychological measurement of your connection to your own humanity. As you install 'ware, you lose your link to the realm of the burgeoning life force of the world (penalty to healing tests) and the realm where emotion lives as a tangible, observable force leaving imprints in its wake (penalty to Social Limit) exactly as normal.

Nice try, though.

>>49566115
I assumed since they were ais it was different.

I'm not going to use that loop because being a deadly contagion is its own bullshit on its own.

Though I guess headcases can use magic. Thought it was all Technomancers.

>>49566422
They're only barely AIs. They're living personalities written onto a functional brain which still needs a healthy body to not-die.

They're people, just with personalities overwritten with artificial ones.

Like someone on a personafix, but forever.

And just like someone on a personafix, they still have Essence, still die when it hits 0, and still have mostly-organic hardware.

>>49566462

Then why do they bitch all the time about having to shit and stuff? Ugh its such a weird agent smith knock off.

>>49566503
>Then why do they bitch all the time about having to shit and stuff?
Because those fake personalities aren't used to having a meat body, the same way a personafix approximating an AI might talk in distasteful disgust about the idea of eating, despite literally being a human brain in a human body.

They're people - actual, biological people - whose personality parameters and often memories have been altered.

Not robots with a meat puppet.

>>49566542
I thought personafix did understand how the human body worked.

Whatever, I can work with that.

>>49566590
It's not literally a personafix, it's CFD doing something similarly. Please learn what an analogy is, besides what people do to your mother.

>>49566590
>I thought personafix did understand how the human body worked.
Depends on the personafix. You can feed literally whatever baseline parameters into it that you want.

Also depends on the CFD! Not all of them are AIs. There are tons of known instances of copies of metahuman personalities, and at least one dragon, mixed into the mess too.

CFD is functionally an infection which causes you to get permanently Personafixed as one of its symptoms. What personality happens to be loaded isn't something you have much control over.

It's like if being a ghoul gave you a new personality instead of making you need to eat human flesh.

That's just it.

>>49566632
No I get that, but I thought your analogy was wrong.
It's not like there is a extensive database explaining the nuance of these.

>>49566639
Man, they really need to update the wiki then, everythings screwy.

It makes a character concept I was going to use all the more tragic however, so theres that.

I need some character advice /srg/, I'm playing as a summoner mage, and I just got a ton of reagents. I want to be able to summon a powerful spirit of man (Force 12 and my magic rating is 6) and bound it. My character has a month to do this and can have his team mates help him with first aid etc but no real magic. My starting dice pool is 16 (no bonuses) and I have 2 edge and my drain pool is 12, I can take 9 boxes of damage before dying. Is it even possible to summon this without dying?

>>49566813

>Is it even possible to summon this without dying?

Are you daft? Of course it is. You just have to be lucky.

>>49566813
>Is it even possible to summon this without dying?
Yes. For sure.

But you're not going to be able to bind it.

It's rolling a dice pool of 24 to resist attempts to bind it, you take drain equal to twice the hits it generates (meaning 16 Physical drain, on average), and you need net hits above and beyond what it rolls for the binding attempt to succeed.

Set your sights lower.

I want to maintain a wiki for myself and my players of my version of Shadowrun. We have dropbox available to us, but no webspace.

Tiddlywiki has been suggested to me, but it doesn't play perfectly with chrome. Anyone have any other ideas? Images can be hosted elsewhere, just need text and cross referencing.

>>49567212
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=treatments+for+autism+in+adults

>>49567246
That's some cold drek omae.

>>49564485
Last decade's hot item. Get 'em if you're old or going retro.

>>49567717
You came into my house, on the day of MY daughter's wedding, and you dare speak such filth?

>>49567767
Nah gramps, they look real flash with that 10 kg keyboard you're lugging around under your chrome cyber arm with hidden shotgun. Very early 21st century schway you've got going on there. Respect.

When does it exhibit in the city's museum of ancient history?

>>49567850
>kg
Haha yuropoor

>>49567850
You whippersnappers have no respect, ive been running codes since you were jizz in your father's briefs boy.

You know the trouble with you kids today is? You dont know real hacken, with your AR, and your neonets an your novatech an your technomancers.

Back in my day they had computers REAL ONES with wires an monitors and shit.
Then yo whippersnappers caused the crash of 2029 with your rap music and it all went to plum hell.

>>49567212
Pretty sure you can just make a regular ass wiki, can't you?

Can spirits recover damage through first aid or by resting? They have Body and Willpower so I don't see why not.

Also, can you regain edge while recovering naturally from near-fatal situations? My GM thinks you can't get a good night's sleep when your physical monitor is nearly full.

>>49566813
Remenber you cant Bind but you can always bargain, a spirit of man has stuff he wants, get them.

>>49561091
>Can spirits recover damage through first aid or by resting? They have Body and Willpower so I don't see why not.
Yes. There's nothing indicating that they shouldn't/wouldn't.

>Also, can you regain edge while recovering naturally from near-fatal situations? My GM thinks you can't get a good night's sleep when your physical monitor is nearly full.
By RAW, determination of what is and isn't a good meal and a full night's rest is entirely your GM's prerogative.

>>49568562
>There's nothing indicating that they shouldn't/wouldn't.
Alright, I wasn't sure about that. Since spirits have a magic rating, that means they're Awakened, right? So there would be a -2 to first aid and medicine tests, and they would need to materialize first in order to apply it.

On the topic of healing, can medkits perform medicine tests by themselves on patients when wireless? Apparently there's a difference between a medkit and an autodoc on what they're able to do, but I don't know see the rules for autodocs. I'm playing a techomancer that's trying to summon and register a ton of sprites, so knowing what tools I can use to boost my natural recovery while I'm suffering penalties is pretty important.

>>49568814
>that means they're Awakened
Lorewise, I'm not so sure that term is applicable, since they're astral beings by default, but yeah, mechanically they're magical fuckers and get the penalty.

File: SR5 p.450.png (160KB, 457x296px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 457x296px

>>49568814
Nope. Just First Aid tests.

>>49568891
>or can operate itself with a dice pool of Medkit Rating x 2

Are you sure? In the natural recovery section of the book (p207), it specifically states medkits can be used to bolster natural recovery. There's also an example on p208 where a player uses a medkit for a Medicine test. If Medkits can be used for Medicine, and they can operate as First Aid on their own, what's stopping them to be used for Medicine on their own?

>>49568976
>provide a direct screenshot of actual rules text from a literal rulebook
>ARE YOU SURE?????
fucking christ, kill yourself

File: B&B p.16-17; R5 p.127.png (856KB, 872x918px) Image search: [Google]

856KB, 872x918px

>>49568976
Bullets & Bandages has a good explanation for it: they just don't have the tools to do it with. Medkits are, well, just medkits - rating 3 and under fit in regular clothing pockets. On their own, they can do stuff like supplying drugs to manage biological processes, using smart bandages to apply pressure without needing to hold them. That sort of thing.

Autodocs are basically drones running a Medicine autosoft (confirmed purchasable but Restricted in Rigger 5.0). They've got the limbs and tools and mechanics required to do stuff like getting a bullet out or stitching a wound properly.

>>49568814
Just get a rating 6 Autodoc if you can, or stay away from fighting.

>>49569092
And I posted actual rules text from the literal rulebook as well.
>or can operate itself with a dice pool rating of Medkit Rating x 2 and a limit equal to its Rating.
>Natural Recovery can be bolstered by the use of
medkits or autodoc drones. (Core 207)

That's why I was asking for clarification. Medkit Rating x 2 could additionally refer to Medicine, especially since pretty much everything involving Natural Recovery uses the phrase "medkit/autodoc" as though they're interchangeable.

>>49569215
So, a Medkit has the supplies to be used for both First Aid and Medicine, but Medicine absolutely requires being able to physically moving stuff around. That makes sense!

Thanks for showing the autosoft prices. Now I can make some medical drones.

File: eJwNwlEOgyAMANC7cACKtSL6vYsQJJVFV0K7r2V33_Lex73H5XZ3mnXdAY6mRcbh1WRkrp5F-Kq5N_VFbshmuZx3fZnCtNK8UaQQ1viHMwLilpBwCpFSwiUtER6tsvhnZ_f9Ab5zIbg - Copy.jpg (41KB, 258x219px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 258x219px

I'm giving my players a dossier on their next target who escaped from a border patrol holding cell just outside the everglades. What do you guys think? Also what else would go into a dossier?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xQa3FGs71N1mR3wZePd4RZR8F760r4n8Tkkngr63qkY/edit?usp=sharing

>>49565234
Analyze Device

>>49570028
>Analyze Device
Sure, and Direct rather than Indirect combat spells.

But you're blowing 100 nuyen for Limit 5, and 200 nuyen for Limit 10, when you could have just cast the spell at a higher Force and trusted your good stats to soak the drain.

It's not useless, by any means. But it's definitely situational.

>>49570063
Relatedly, if a spell is slapped into a Focus, does it turn off when you go to sleep?

>>49570198
>Relatedly, if a spell is slapped into a Focus, does it turn off when you go to sleep?
Yeah. All sustained spells end when you lose consciousness, including those in Sustaining Foci. The only exception to that is Quickening or spells sustained by a truly external force, like a bound spirit.

File: 2016-09-30 03.34.29.jpg (1MB, 1048x2051px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1048x2051px

Caught myself doodling a runner group, thought I'd share.

Sam, face, decker, mysad

And yes, it's drawn on an envelope because it was the closest thing.

>>49570466
Cute but your eyes are too close to the top of the head. For a doodle, breddygud 6.5/10

>>49570512
Doesn't really look like that to me

>>49567212
I use obsidian portal, but I got a lifetime subscription to it through shenanigans. Dunno if it's actually any good if you're using the free version.

File: 2016-09-30 04.38.06.jpg (782KB, 977x1402px) Image search: [Google]

782KB, 977x1402px

>>49570512
I tried remaking the orc and elf mysad according to your advice. I didn't manage to make them look exactly the same though.

Is this better?

>>49571213

Well...shit you got him there.

>>49571213
Yes, my dick is silicon carbide right now. 11/10.

>>49561091
>Dankwalthers
He now lives in an evil underground lair somewhere. One day, the last of the accountant lords shall rise again, and the world will be his for the taking.
Also, he's disgustingly melodramatic and wears a cape.

What kind of mentor spirit and tradition comes to someone who awakens in a time of stress.

AKA a bunraku puppets whose spontaneously awakens and fries her personafix chip.

Her whole motivation is that, due to her face having been warped to a likeness of Maria Mercucial and her memory being fried from the personafix chip usage, she doesnt know who she is or what she looks like. She's deperate to find her home and who she is.

And because shes a CFD victim she's doomed to lose.

File: tumblr_o3w953gknL1skbqqro1_1280.jpg (223KB, 1280x1811px) Image search: [Google]

223KB, 1280x1811px

>>49571619

>spoiler

Dang, chummer. That's rough.

>>49571619
>And because shes a CFD victim she's doomed to lose
A good regimen of EMP blasts, not eating anything (nutrition spell replaces all intake), and anything else you can find that sorta works will eventually flush CFD entirely. Mechanically, at least, it will drop your Nanite Volume to 0.

>>49571619
>Shitty metaplot enabler

>>49571712
It's from the shitty quest that i may never get around to doing (The core books are a thick fuckin read).
There are 6 characters, split into Magic users, decker/riggers, and samurais/face (Including Carl "Carl" Carlson" the unluckiest Stuffershack employee.
These are split into two castes of "Mohawk or Trenchcoat"

Guess hers?
Her alternate is a Halloweener who hides the fact he's actually a vampire under his shitty plastic teeth.

>>49571753
Honestly I'm not as happy with Headcases either, Sixth world doesnt really NEED the Mr Smith virus. But it fits the character

>>49571731
Right but, and i can be wrong. Doesnt CFD eat your mind before replacing it, replacing your nanintes would just make you a blank canvas again.


Anyway traditions? I was going to go with a nontoxic Adversary, or maybe Rat? The mentor spirits important because even if i drop the CFD this will be all the poor girl has.

>>49571619
>>49571823

Any non-academic tradition and any mentor spirit works, really. But if you mean sticking to the theme of only shining under pressure, Chaos Magic (SG p.44) sticks out. It's broad on what it could be for anyone, but with the common themes of not investigating how it works too much and acting/going with the flow rather than planning. For a mentor... uh, Rat probably fits the most, yeah. Stays away from fighting and prioritizes survival, but when forced into fighting, fights to win.

Is it me, or is armour really not that protective in 4e? 5 armor plus 3 body is 8 dice, likely 2 - 3 hits, against a minimum damage of 6, usually.

Seems shit. Am I missing something?

>>49571858

Thank you. I'll keep looking for alternatives just in case but now I got a idea to stick with.

Now I just have to make sure the other characters dont suck.

>>49571919
Where the fuck are you getting 5 armor? Even a basic armored jacket is 12. A helmet is 3, and you can get a shitload of +armor addons, like gel packs, forearm guards, armor kits, and so on.

If I'm using an FN P93 Praetor with -2 concealability should I get a machine pistol for silent work or can I just slap a sound suppressor on the SMG?

>>49571919
>5 armor plus 3 body is 8 dice, likely 2 - 3 hits, against a minimum damage of 6, usually.
A basic Armor Jacket is 8/6 Armor and a helmet turns it into 9/8.

That, and weapon damage was much, much lower in 4e than it was in 5e.

Furthermore, armor's main purpose is to turn Physical attacks into Stun attacks. Reducing the total damage is nice too, but less desperately urgent.

With 3 Body, an Armor Jacket, and a helmet, you're looking at an average of 4 damage removed from every attack, and with an Ares Predator requiring 5+ hits on attacks to do Physical damage to you.

That's pretty solid.

Anyone running any 4e or 5e text games? I figured I'd ask here before trying the gamefinder thread.

>>49572516
Sorry, omae, none that need players.

Okay, trying this again...

So I'm making a character currently named something like Lucky Steve or Lucky Pete, whose whole deal is going to be that he is a street smart bruiser jackass who is HILARIOUSLY unlucky. And I don't want him to just be "Low Edge with the Bad Luck trait", I mean everything he does has a good chance of going hilariously wrong and honestly no one can really tell why he's still alive/ gets work.

He's way early in the planning stage so I'd like to hear how you'd put him together. Currently I'm kinda thinking "A lot of tech skills with Gremlins 4" or something. And I know about Borrowed Time, but I'm low on negative quality space here.

>>49572616
So you want to just make a character who sucks and ruins everything for the party by simply existing.

Have you considered not gearing a character on losing a lot? You can just make him street where everyone else is experienced then he'll fail a LOT.

Anyone got suggestions on finding a text game for a prospective player that wants to use the system but has no connections to any groups or experience with organized gamefinding?

>>49572616
Check out the Accident spirit power (SR5 p.394). It'd be a little balance work but if your GM is willing to hedge it in, homebrew a negative quality that involves one or more non-bound spirits just using it on the character occasionally because something about him pisses them off (or it's just really funny to them, who knows).

>>49572616
DM cooperation.

Is there a space in chummer for my character's pronouns?

>>49572788
>Is there a space in chummer for my character's pronouns?
Yeah, on the Character Info tab there's a slot called Sex. That's where you write whether your character is a Chummer or an Omae.

>>49572788
There's space for miscellaneous notes. Put them there if you care.

>>49572788
IF you forgot them you are a bad roleplayer.

>>49572616
>>49572701
I actually had a similar idea, but mostly dismissed it because of >>49572663

Possibly as a gun/car adept, but everything I have is some kind of awakened or other type of special snowflake already so eh.

File: 1256096329449.jpg (40KB, 510x700px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 510x700px

>>49561091
So I had a neat SR fluff thought.
You guys know how cryptids are a thing in our world right?
Well what do you think the cryptids are in the SR universe? Because almost all the existing ones are now just awakened animals? What makes a crazy cryptid in SR?
Now I do have an idea
Cryptids in SR are literally monsters from fantasy RPG's and table top games, that people are convinced are still out there. That they weren't simply from our imagination since dragons are real theres no reason beholders or mindfleyers couldn't exist right? Or maybe people trying to prove the Lord of the Rings was a real world event.
Just imagine the television shows
"Alright today we are hunting the illussive Dragon Turtle from the monster manual number 1 page 206."

>>49573271
>mindfleyers
SURGE.

But yes, sounds cool.

>>49573291
We both know a Mindflayer is a lot worse then a weird looking human.

Horrors are a thing. All abberations are probbably tied to them.

Why does everyone jizz themselves over fourth world shit, what about fifth world? Cant old shit be appreciated without being some destiney driven magic mcguffin that shits rainbows?

>>49573344
See this is how you get crypid hunters in SR

>>49573368
Because we have plenty of other games dedicated to the fifth world, you cockmongler.

>>49573392
Sane with fourthworld dicklicker, its called every fuckin fantasy game on earth.

I'm just suprised its all "Wow this guy is several centuries old" or they dont matter.

Why isnt there like a 80 year old man who still remenbers when all this shit was weird? You think Damien Knight ever stops, looks down at his multinational company that he got with the help of a magic dragon, and thinks "What the fuck happened to my life"?

>>49573432
>Why isnt there like a 80 year old man who still remenbers when all this shit was weird?
Because you aren't looking hard enough. Bull's pretty old for an ork, FastJack was that exact guy before CGL killed him off, Man-of-Many-Names is pretty old, and Damien Knight probably does have moments like that every so often.

>>49573461
>Bull
Is that actually the name of a metaplot character?

An ORK metaplot character?

Mein gott

>>49573503
Yeah, one of the devs' self-inserts. After FastJack left, Bull was one of the three guys who took over Jackpoint.

Also, try checking older editions set in the "past" for NPCs who remember the Fifth World.

>>49573556
One of the devs is in to cuckoldry? That explains a lot.

So, I've never played this game at all, but I picked up a second edition book and want to try it out with my brother. We can figure out the rules as we go along, but I'm not really sure how the setting of this game works. Do I need to find a module to play or can I just make up my own stuff based on the information in the book? Are there any resources for me to utilize for this for 2e?

>>49573889
Pick up 5e, it's in the OP.

>>49573939

I think you misread my post, because I didn't ask what edition I should play.

>>49572701

Interesting idea, a bit disheartening.

>>49572663

Clearly this character would work for a Pink Mohawk campaign and not everyone has to be perfect at everything. And yes, no matter what I would make my character concept clear to all the players and the GM so I wouldn't just ruin a mission and get myself killed with botched rolls.

The running gag with him would be "How is this guy still alive?"

>>49573959
Oh, I don't care that you didn't ask. 2e is an old edition that's not aged well, and you'd be doing yourself a favor to not play it.

>>49573975

Again, I didn't ask for an opinion on the edition that I'm playing. I won't be responding to anymore replies that doesn't answer my questions.

>>49574028
It's alright to be retarded, anon.

You'll probably want to get modules, since you've clearly demonstrated that you're dumb enough to enjoy them.

>>49574036
>Someone likes something I don't like
>Obviously he's retarded

>>49572259
Depends on your palming dice pool.

Yes, you can attach and remove attachments such as suppressors fairly easily. I'd even allow attaching it over a comp (gas vent system) but the two cannot work simultaneously.

You could also carry a heavy pistol concealed and just substitute automatics when you have to use it.

>>49573596
>being so far gone you don't understand animal symbolism
Legit curious, what is life like when cancer gets this advanced?

>>49574068
>I'd even allow attaching it over a comp (gas vent system)
How does that even work?

>>49574316
I was making an attempt to be funny anon

I'm sorry for trying to entertain the masses

>>49574326
Get better at it senpai, there are too many faggots who say that sort of thing and aren't joking. It's like going on tumblr and ironically being a SJW.

>>49574346
Your dumb anon. Really dumb.

>>49574318
Switch systems that seal the vents so the gas can go into the silencer.

Already exists on several guns today, no need to think it wouldn't in SR

What exactly is the bounty on toxic mages/adepts, if one exists? Does it depend on the place? Any ways of identifying someone's mentor spirit other than analyzing behavior and getting a bunch of hits on assensing?

>>49574546
Does it even apply to Adepts? There's a thing from Dunkelzahn's Will about Blood Mages and Toxic Shamans, and a mention in SG about a bounty without a number.

>>49574546
>>49574596

Nah, that's the bounty. A cool million nuyen, although it's said that the Draco Foundation basically has a "Most Wanted" list rather than just having people drag in every mage and the Draco Foundation having to sort it all out.

On the other hand, if you can provide proof, that mil's probably yours even if the blood or toxic's not on the big list.

I'm pulling together a group for what will surely be a trainwreck in motion of a game.
It will be my first time DMing Shadowrun, and most of my to-be players are either wholly new to Shadowrun or tabletop RPGs at all.

With this in mind, should I pick up 4th edition, or 5th edition?

Either seems to have its downsides, and I'd prefer whichever edition is easier for character creation, and keeping rules and skills straight.

>>49575206
Could wait a little while for Shadowrun Anarchy to come out if you want to give them a softer introduction

>>49575206
I haven't played 4th Edition, but I can tell you I had no problem initiating new players to 5th. Just go easy on them, make a couple milk runs so they can learn the basic rules with no real risks if they screw up, then slowly increase the complexity of the runs they take. 5th is great over 4th for that as I seem to understand the power level of PCs is a bit lower.

>>49575206
Start by seeing what you players broadly would like to play as (i.e. Decker, Rigger, etc...), don't hesitate them to require to stick to sterotypes for the first time, have them read the relevant sections of the rules and get them Cheat Sheets. Stick to the core rulebook for starters. You are ultimately the only one who must absorb everything from the start by virtue of being the GM.

If all's fine and dandy, have your players broaden out and progressively add more resources for them to have fun with.

>>49575254
I didn't know this was going to be a thing. Depending on when it drops I may well do this. Thanks!

>>49575276
From what I'd read, 5th was more complex than 4th but this is encouraging.

>>49575282
The advice is appreciated but I'm asking for input on which edition to choose.

Can you actually play a character with Doom as a mentor spirit, or are you just fucked?

>>49575403
>5th was more complex
Who says this? It's a little less complex, the editing is just bad.

File: Doomguy.jpg (23KB, 207x300px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 207x300px

>>49575413
What would he even mentor you in? Running at the approximate land speed record?

File: Doom.png (152KB, 516x573px) Image search: [Google]

152KB, 516x573px

>>49575479
No, this.

>>49575488
I was making a joke

>>49575488
You can START playing as one I suppose.

>>49575413
Not without being toxic, and that never bodes well.

>>49575559
But does the bounty that applies to shamans apply to adepts too? Can the mentor be reasonably refluffed to be more workable?

>>49575559
I can also imagine getting taken on by doom right after you lost everything and your believe in any values has shattered.

It can be a fitting final destination for a character who is so corroded by hatred and despair, that no other mento spirit even wants to come close.

>>49575473
How bad are we talking?

>>49575604
Most things can be found with CTRL + F and using the Index, but some times you'll be stuck looking for a rule that you know is in the book, only to find it as a seemingly throwaway line in a tangentially related section of hte book.

>>49575592
Look man, if you're in a team of folks who aren't into destroying metahumanity and they get wind of your philosophy and also recall that you're awakened, they're probably going to put you down regardless of whether or not there's a bounty on you. You're too dangerous to keep around but also not dangerous enough to scare them off and I don't think toxics really recover from the whole wanting the everyone dead bit.
I don't think so, but ultimately it would be up to your GM.

>>49575635
I mean, in this particular case, this is more of "Character isn't aware that there's a mentor, and the mentor is attempting to nudge them towards the path of the Toxic, and to get more violent and give in" type thing, rather than full "Hurr hurr I'm a fucking toxic adept please turn me in for the million nuyen bounty I'm a fucking retard."

>>49575616
This sounds very annoying, but surmountable. Any other reasons to pick 5th over 4th aside from it being newer and having less dice rolling?

>>49575652
Now, I'm talking off the top of my head here, but I think you might need to have some toxic tendencies to get a toxic mentor. Mentors tend to call out to their kind of people, from what I gather. So, assuming that this is correct, even if your character isn't consciously a toxic they still are, kind of, and they certainly aren't someone that you'd want to work with once you started to see that.
Ultimately it's up to how your GM and group want to play, of course.

>>49575720
The character's basically a budding psychopath with delusions of being royalty/plain better than everyone else, has an outlook of basically "Might makes right", and is currently in Seattle due to escaping after murdering someone in the Black Forest Troll Kingdom.

>>49575667
I hear it's more noob friendly. I wouldn't know, I learned 5e, and 4e was close enough for me to not look at the rulebook too much when I was in a 4e game.

>>49575767
Okay, see, now if your team just has regular runner mercenary sociopathy as opposed to outright psychopathy and ALSO delusions of superiority, that's going to stick out sooner or later. If you're not totally indispensable to the team (and you appear to be building a combat specialist so you likely aren't) then they will probably just give you the boot when you start having difficulty keeping your murder-boner in your pants or when your nacisism starts grating on them. And this is all assuming that you don't start going full toxic.
It just doesn't seem like a good concept to me, or rather, it doesn't seem like a good concept that could LAST.

>>49575794
Very well. Thanks everyone. Time to get some books!

>>49575667

They both depends on what sort of feel you want for it.

4e is a lot crazier and high power, with PCs being ex-spec ops and nova-shot hackers as well as the lack of limits meaning people can pull of crazier things without bringing edge in.

At least in theory. 5e limits are pretty shit and exist in either two forms 'So low they are crippling' and 'So high they don't matter 99% of the time'

5e is a little more down to earth. Ex-gangers and regular military guys. People start off 'Decent and very competent but not the best of the best'

>>49575835
I keep seeing people saying this, but I don't know if I believe it. The maximum stat points a 4e character could have is 20, 18 if they choose to have one at maximum, and you could only have one skill at six in 4e whereas 5e allows you to have as many at six as you want . Now granted the raised the skill max in 5e, but you still have as many if not more dice in 5e, so that's a bit of a trick of moved goalposts. Granted some positive qualities and gear have been nerfed, and the optional extra races that were really overpowered like shifters and changelings are a broken mess, but I'm not counting them.
Priority does make characters really skewed, and heavily punishes you for making Trolls and Orks.

>>49576323

It's a matter of how they scale within the universe. In 4e 6 was 'The best of the best'. In 5e you can expect an elite guy to have multiple skills at above 6.

>>49573962
Except its shadowrun and "How is this guy still alive" is almost always answered by "He isn't" followed by a failed dice roll.

Being so unlucky that its only a freak of nature that you live is heavily dependent on dm fiat to bail you out of the messes you create.

What are the best vehicles for accommodating a good number of runners, as well as being spacious enough to comfortably move about in, or possibly provide space for a workshop. Something like an RV, I suppose. I don't just want my transport to be for seating, I want it to be comfy too.

>>49576512

RV would be your best bet. There are some in rigger 5 I think.

File: voodoo.jpg (88KB, 600x337px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 600x337px

I'm not getting how elements in magic works. Does it affects only spirits summoned for specific purposes? And that's all?
So, if my character, say, is a chaotician, I still don't have to limit myself to fire-based attacking spells, right?

>>49576631

No you dont, the elements are what spells the spirits can help cast. Fire can help combat, etc etc.

You can still summon a spirit of air for fighting and hurl around lightning.

>>49570871
>through shenanigans
explain

>>49576512
Get an Ares Roadmaster, add Extra Seating (12 seats), Luxury Amenities, and as much armor as you can nail onto it. You can get it up to 24 Concealed armor or 27 Obvious that way, meaning you'll have 12 people in luxury seating in a vehicle functionally immune to all attacks.

Gridlink or Gridguide or whatever it's called that cars need to be on to have autopilot: does it provide Shadowrunners any benefit, or should I just assume it's off for my players?

>>49578061
It lets them not need to know how to drive.

If your trying to escape the law however you gotta turn it off.

File: R5 p.166-167.png (264KB, 377x688px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 377x688px

>>49578061

>>49578117
I see. Thanks!

>>49578107
Mechanically, basic driving doesn't require a roll, with or without Gridlink. Except for cutting people off, because that requires 1 hit on a driving test.

>>49577722
Thanks for the tip, chummer. Although I'm struggling to try and visualise the size and how roomy such a vehicle would be. I think that's the main thing, really. Not every vehicle can be like a TARDIS after all.

>>49578217
For a Roadmaster set up like that, not too roomy, actually kinda cramped, but the seats and AC and drink chilling/warming holders are so good that you don't notice.

Thing's probably noticeably wider and longer, though.

File: c5107a1a3005b5d428104aaf8b7d2092.jpg (443KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 1920x1080px

>>49578217
It has 8 seats stock, so it's fragging big, chummer. One of the big differences is probably a shift to bench seating so that you can fit more people in a similar space by removing obstructions.

File: giphy.gif (2MB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 480x270px

>>49578217
>>49578237
>>49578278
Also, a Luxury Roadmaster probably aggressively follows the idea of folding/retracting amenities to save space while still providing amenities, plus aggressive use of AR objects for things that don't specifically require physical representation.

https://youtu.be/CPMmxcWQvjQ

I'd be shocked if half the seating wasn't folded into the wall panels when not in use, for example, with the compartment only getting cramped once you started getting to full capacity, people-wise.

>>49578237
>>49578278
>>49578422
>bench seating
>I'd be shocked if half the seating wasn't folded into the wall panels when not in use, for example, with the compartment only getting cramped once you started getting to full capacity, people-wise.

Didn't think of these, thanks Chummer. Are these proper modifications or is it just assumed that (especially if you buy extra seating) that these types of seats are just present to justify the space you'd have/need?

>>49578674
It's just fluff. Mechanically, the only thing that Amenities and Increased Seating provides you is a bonus to social rolls (and the option to buy your lifestyle as being vehicle-based) and no-penalty increased person capacity. Whether you fluff it as turning your vehicle into a luxury Stretch Roadmaster or by cramming it full of folding seating and retractable minibars is your prerogative, subject to GM approval as with all things.

>>49578713
Awesome, time for comfy travel times.

I'll throw this out there to generate discussion, chummers. Is there any vehicle you've been particularly attached to?

>>49578742
I love me the Horizon-Doble Revolution. It's just so wiz, even if it's not too practical for an entire team. Even better if you get gecko pads added on.

>>49578742
>Is there any vehicle you've been particularly attached to?
My Mirage. It's hard not to love a sniper rifle-equipped motorcycle that can scale skyscrapers with its gecko tips to line up a shot. Add on to that the absurd speeds you can get on a Mirage and how relatively affordable these modifications have been - I just love it.

Definitely made investing in Gunnery worth it for my Decker. It's really helped for 70th floor physical infiltration too, driving up the side of a building with a gecko bike and gecko gloves, cutting in through a window, and then literally driving down the side of a building once shit went loud.

And then there was that Rigger with the cocoon Harley. I got a Harley Scorpion, slapped a Rigger Cocoon on it, equipped it with a walker mode, attacked as much obvious armor as I could, and then mounted an Auto Assault 16 to it, complete with multiple ammo bins for different payloads. That was a fucking rad battle platform, able to walk through hallways on its crab legs and then convert to wheel mode and drive away.

I had a Realistic Features anthroform battle-drone to go with that one, with an RCC in the 'bike's' smuggling compartment to run autosofts for whichever one he wasn't jumped into at the time. Had gecko tips on the anthroform too; between that and the hydraulic jacks on the legs, it did some pretty sick shit.

Generally speaking, though, motorcycles are both my favorite vehicles and my favorite drones, because they fill both niches incredibly nicely.

File: Jaws_james_bond.jpg (11KB, 316x316px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 316x316px

Have you ever run as Jaws in one of your games?

>>49578742
I'm a sucker for the Cyclops. It's basically a classy version of the Scoot.

>>49578900
That Harley sounds fucking rad dude. You think it'd be possible to do something similar, but with walker legs for only the back, and mechanical arms for the front? Now your bike isn't walker of death anymore, it's a freakin' mecha.

>>49578742
Have to admit I'm in love with the Aeroquip Dustoff medevac drone. Swap the Valkyrie-equipped patient compartment for a rigger cocoon and you've got the cheapest and smallest VTOL in 5e for your rigger to keep their meat away from the action.

>>49579131
>You think it'd be possible to do something similar, but with walker legs for only the back, and mechanical arms for the front? Now your bike isn't walker of death anymore, it's a freakin' mecha.
He's unfortunately either lying or just plain wrong. A Harley Scorpion has 8 body, but walker mode and a rigger cocoon cost a combined 10 powertrain mod points.

You could, however, get Tracked as a secondary propulsion system alongside a rigger cocoon.

13 armor would cost 2k nuyen and all of the Protection mod points.

For a weapon mount you don't give a fuck about visibility, so let's say Standard sized, External, Turret Flexibility, and Remote Control. That leaves you with 4 mod points left to buy Ammo Bins - or you could upgrade it to a Heavy weapon mount and still have 2 extra weapon bins for it. LMG, assault cannon, go fragging nuts.

A smuggling compartment costs 3 Body Mod points. An articulated arm costs 3 more. With your remaining 2 points, you can take Basic Life Support, to switch to an internal air supply when necessary. You could trade the smuggling compartment for a second arm if you were inclined too.

You've got all kinds of options for its electronic systems. A Pilot enhancement if you expect to leave it self-piloting at some point. Sensor Enhancement if you want to have it be able to function as a tricked-out spy station. Signature Masking if you want to be great at hiding from sensor systems.

And then there's the cosmetic modifications. High Amenities, enhanced image screens, the obligatory rigger interface - frag it, why not toss on a searchlight, a tag eraser, and Yerz it out while you're at it?

Now, that said? You CAN get walker mode and a rigger cocoon on a bike - just not a Scorpion. The BMW Blitzkrieg is what you want; it's a milspec bike from Rigger 5.0. The problem is that it's 14R and so, unlike the Scorpion, not available at chargen. Tough luck, chummer.

>>49579397
4e.

>>49572812
I identify as Drekheadkin, and your microaggression by not putting me first in your list triggers me. Please go to jail.

>>49579540
Wow you really are a drekhead.

File: 1459978714621.jpg (113KB, 750x1000px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 750x1000px

>>49573432
There's literally a section in Dunkelzahn's Will where he gives a wish to anyone who can prove that they met JFK, because Big D thinks he was a good guy and is sad they didn't meet.

File: (((You))).jpg (445KB, 1459x820px) Image search: [Google]

445KB, 1459x820px

>>49579397
>The problem is that it's 14R and so, unlike the Scorpion, not available at chargen
>he doesn't know what Restricted Gear is

>>49579582
I know being around for the fifth world is a thing that happened. Its just I want to see it more rather then 4th world pricks.

>>49575767
Why not just go with Shark, but mention to the GM that you're interested in a darker path? Then he might nudge you in that direction in play, culminating in you finally truly accepting Doom as your mentor.

>>49579397
>The BMW Blitzkrieg is what you want; it's a milspec bike from Rigger 5.0. The problem is that it's 14R and so, unlike the Scorpion, not available at chargen. Tough luck, chummer.
According to the fluff the Blitzkrieg also has a pull-over hard-shell canopy to provide full cover to the rider (to the extent that you need AR/VR to pilot it at all when it's drawn) and has gyro-stabilization for when you do go into VR.

Ding ding, I think we have ourselves a goddamn winner.

>>49579455
>4e.
Then don't play a rigger literally ever. They're by far the least supported archetype in that edition, despite being (now) very well-supported in 5e.

That said, in 4e, what you'd want is a Scorpion which you then equip with Walker Mode, an Advanced Rigger Cocoon, Obvious Armor, a Mechanical Arm, and spend your final remaining mod point on a Normal, External, Fixed, Remote-Controlled weapon mount.

>>49579590
>buying the Restricted Gear quality to gain access to a 14R item
Disgusting beyond words.

>>49579675

Sometimes it's worth it, like giving a melee adept that Highlands Forge Nodachi (yes, nodachi, because claymores are more like gaymores), weapon focus and all that good stuff.

File: Spirit of Fire.jpg (60KB, 600x598px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 600x598px

>>49576631
>>49576836
> Mages of that particular tradition may only summon the spirits listed with the tradition, and they are restricted in the tasks they can assign them. Assigning tasks outside the general area of their tradition will not receive a response from the spirit (for example, a Buddhist mage telling an air spirit to heal him will get no response, as air is a Combat spirit in that tradition, while the Health spirit is earth).

You can cast whatever spells you want, the types are only for the spirits you summon. A spirit can only perform tasks within it's balliwick, and only sustain your spells if they are of the same type (so for a Chaos Mage, a Fire spirit could sustain a Combat spell but not a Manipulation spell).

>>49579775

Correct. You also can't have a spirit assist you in study if's not the related spirit for the tradition.

There's nothing preventing a Buddhist from making an Earth spirit fight, even though they're not traditionally used for that role.

File: Spirit.jpg (775KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

775KB, 1280x960px

>>49579808
>There's nothing preventing a Buddhist from making an Earth spirit fight

Dude. That's literally what the quoted section is about. Making a Buddhist Earth Spirit fight is as impossible as making it cast illusions. Spirits do things in the general area of their tradition, not something else entirely.

It's an easily missed rule, but one that's critical to preventing summoning being OP bullshit.

>>49579877

Oh yes, that's correct, the spirit is incapable of casting spells not tied to its role for the tradition, but it can still do simple things.

An earth spirit can fight, but it can't cast combat spells.

File: Bosozuku.jpg (65KB, 634x356px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 634x356px

>>49579675
This .>>49579757

It's still a bit of a waste, but if you're going to be pumping 100k nuyen into making an superbike it's better to do it at chargen and eat the Restricted Gear karmatax.

>>49579899
Spirit probbably wont like that.

File: Eagle Shaman.png (298KB, 287x763px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 287x763px

>>49579899
>Assigning tasks outside the general area of their tradition will not receive a response from the spirit
>Combat: You can have a spirit fight on your side in combat. The entire fight counts as a single service.
>Power use: You can have a spirit use one of its powers on a target or targets of your choosing. If the power is sustained, it counts as one service no matter how long it’s sustained. If the spirit uses a power as part of another task (often in combat), then the power use doesn’t count as a separate service.

No, anon. A Buddhist Earth spirit could neither fight physically, or cast combat spells. It's outside the general area of things a Buddhist Earth spirit can do. A spirit in combat would use combat spells, just as if you ask a spirit to heal you it's not going to break out the band-aids, it's going to cast Heal.

>>49579877
There's just, like, three problems with that little change.

One is that a lot of spirits have no real power or capability to perform in many of the roles they're in.

Two, there's not really a tradition with a bad combat spirit, just those that don't have the top tier spirits for it.

Also, three. What happens when you have favors for a spirit that your tradition can't call up. It's the most nominal case of all the three, but it's also quite possible.

>>49579967

Would probably depend a lot on the tradition itself and how they feel about spirits. We have no way of knowing the truth. But the point is that there's nothing preventing you from using a summoned spirit to do a simple cross-traditional role.

So an Aztec could use a fire spirit to burn a building down even though fire spirits are traditionally used only for detection.

>>49580003

>A spirit in combat would use combat spells

Sure, but they don't have to. They can just go over and hit things.

And that combat spirit can't heal you because it won't have access to the spell Heal.

If you have a tradition that uses Earth spirits for combat, you can command that spirit to push open a door even though manipulation is reserved for a different caste of spirits.

>>49580005
>One is that a lot of spirits have no real power or capability to perform in many of the roles they're in.

Bad CGL writing. I think that Spirits of Man are the only ones that could possibly actually cast Heal, with their optional ability to use a spell the summoner knows. In play, we just handwave it and assume that Health domain spirits have Heal.

>Two, there's not really a tradition with a bad combat spirit, just those that don't have the top tier spirits for it.
I'm not sure how that's a problem. No tradition is crippled when it comes to summoning spirits for combat, they just have to summon the right one to fight.

>Also, three. What happens when you have favors for a spirit that your tradition can't call up
What, if you banish and then summon it again immediately? Best use those services up during this summons, or let them go to waste. Rulewise,
>It doesn’t matter what type the spirit is or which tradition you are in this case, since it’s already out and available.

So you can make it do whatever. A bonus for being able to act fast, beat down the other mage, and grab up that spirit before it uses it's next action to leave.

>>49580127
Because you say that the rule change is to keep summoning from being OP, but at the end of the day, any spirit at force 7 is just a bit of a monster and the type only really determines how much of one it is.

Also, do you give out Conceal to Illusion domain, Search to Divination, and Psychokinesis to Manipulation ones?

(Also, what happens if the spirit thief decides to do a binding ritual is probably what I should have asked. That's more important, because it's probably not at all effected by the change in SG.)

File: Dragon Janitor.jpg (140KB, 800x558px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 800x558px

>>49580081
>Sure, but they don't have to. They can just go over and hit things.

They could, but as evidenced by the fact that powers used in combat don't count as additional services, the spirit will fight however it pleases. It could materialize and punch dudes, it could sit back and throw Elemental Attacks, it could try and pull the building down on top of everyone (one reason why giving clear direction when you request a service is important). What matters is that the spirit is in combat. If you tell a non-Combat spirit to go into combat, the spirit tells you to go fuck yourself, that's not it's job.

>If you have a tradition that uses Earth spirits for combat, you can command that spirit to push open a door even though manipulation is reserved for a different caste of spirits.
RAW, no you can't. Most GMs would allow it (especially if it was part of a service that the spirit is required to do, like "Go through that door and kill the corpsec on the other side"), but technically the spirit wouldn't be required to do so.

Does that sound silly? Yeah. But it also prevents people from saying, "I know in my tradition Earth spirits heal, but I bound this one at F10, and I just want him to punch his way through every fight. He doesn't need to use a power, just punch." That's specifically what the rule is in place for, to prevent people from just summoning one spirit and using it for everything except sustaining spells and very specific usages of powers.

File: Thon.gif (22KB, 320x224px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 320x224px

>>49580220
>Because you say that the rule change is to keep summoning from being OP, but at the end of the day, any spirit at force 7 is just a bit of a monster and the type only really determines how much of one it is.
Assuming you're talking about combat. Yeah, a powerful spirit is still powerful, no matter what specific type of spirit it is. The limitation is not on the power of the spirit, it's the flexibility. That F7 Combat spirit is great at fighting, but you can't use him for everything- you'd still need to summon something else if you wanted to dig a tunnel, something else if you wanted to hunt down a guy, etc.

>Also, do you give out Conceal to Illusion domain, Search to Divination, and Psychokinesis to Manipulation ones?
In reverse order: No because all the spirit types have manipulation powers of some type or another (even if it's just 'materialize and do it by hand'), no because every spirit has Search as an optional power so the summoner can choose that, and no because several of them do have Conceal, and the ones that don't have different Illusion powers. Benefits and drawbacks of that specific tradition. Heal is just a freebie because literally no spirit has it, we couldn't think of a good reason why, no spirit has Medicine or First Aid except for potentially Task Spirits (who I don't think are the Health spirits for any tradition) and we couldn't think of a reasonable way a spirit could heal someone otherwise.

>(Also, what happens if the spirit thief decides to do a binding ritual is probably what I should have asked. That's more important, because it's probably not at all effected by the change in SG.)
Never come up in my game, but I imagine that would be a whole thing similar to trying to bind a free spirit/make a spirit pact. You're taking a spirit which is totally outside your tradition, almost certainly hates you for snagging and binding it, and likely has an entirely different outlook on magic and life than you're familiar with.

What's Koreatown like in Shadowrun's LA?

>>49580081
>Mages of that particular tradition may only summon the spirits listed with the tradition, and they are restricted in the tasks they can assign them.
>Assigning tasks outside the general area of their tradition will not receive a response from the spirit
I don't know why you have trouble with this.
Is healing you part of the general area of "combat"?
Is spying on someone in the general area of "health"?
Is opening a door for you in the general area of "detection"?
Is turning you invisible in the general area of "manipulation"?
Is punching someone to knock them out in the general area of "illusion"?

>>49580441
>Is healing you part of the general area of "combat"?
Yeah, why?

>>49580532
Not that anon, but don't be obtuse. In terms of magic, "health" and healing are very specific things. Saying that your Fire spirit is playing combat medic (without even a First Aid skill) is silly.

>>49580415
I'd chalk it up to differences in planning then. I generally just bind a big combat nasty (If/when I think I can survive potential Lot of Physical) and summon guys at license needed level for actually doing stuff.

Exception being when I want to boost a certain category of spell or spell ritual. Like say getting up a big Mana Static to hide with using Renascence. Nice 7m radius sphere to duck through before I hide out for a while in my force 25 temporary lodge bolt-hole.

>>49580569
cauterization

>>49580441
>Is healing you part of the general area of "combat"?
Yes.
>Is spying on someone in the general area of "health"?
It could be.
>Is opening a door for you in the general area of "detection"?
Yes, if I want to detect what's inside.
>Is turning you invisible in the general area of "manipulation"?
You manipulate rays of light to turn you invisible, so yes.
>Is punching someone to knock them out in the general area of "illusion"?
It makes them see stars, so yes.

File: Shaman Mask.jpg (392KB, 1811x2616px) Image search: [Google]

392KB, 1811x2616px

>>49580570
Not really a difference there. That's exactly what the shamans and mages in my group do- they generally work on binding the appropriate Combat spirit at as high a Force as they can manage, and bring it in when shit hits the fan, and summon other spirits as needed to do other tasks (unless they want to do something special, like the Jew who had Ammishaddai the ultra Task Spirit who helped him make vessels for the other spirits).

They just know that if they have an Air spirit for combat, they can't expect that guy to carry the party out of the building to safety. They need to learn about all the spirit types, what they can and can't do (both in terms of general area and in specific powers), and how to use them most effectively.

Speaking of spirits, what are generally accepted as the best force of spirits to have? What's the highest force spirit you can reasonably have 1) summoned 2) bound?

Are spirit affinity and spirit whisperer qualities worth it? Also, SW states that the magician is considered as to have summoned a F spirit, but it will pop out as a F+1 spirit. If the magician decides to bind the spirit, would it be resolved with F or F+1?

Also as an unrelated note, 5e CRB states that binding is revolved with a summoning + magic [force] vs. spirit's force x2, but shouldn't it be binding + magic [force] vs. spirit's force x2?

Sorry if the questions are obvious, it's my first time making a mage.

File: what the frag am i hacking.png (874KB, 385x814px) Image search: [Google]

874KB, 385x814px

Having explicit power/spell lists for spirit domains would be great.

I planned on having a similar system for sprites in my Matrix houserules.
Anyone want to talk Matrix?

>>49580640
You must be fun to play with.

>>49580858
>Speaking of spirits, what are generally accepted as the best force of spirits to have?
I usually top out at about 8.

>Are spirit affinity and spirit whisperer qualities worth it?
Very.

>>49580858
>If the magician decides to bind the spirit, would it be resolved with F or F+1?

It's resolved at the actual Force of the spirit. Spirit Whisperer effectively means that the spirit is in all respects treated as having a Force 1 greater than what you handled as drain when summoning it.

>Also as an unrelated note, 5e CRB states that binding is revolved with a summoning + magic [force] vs. spirit's force x2, but shouldn't it be binding + magic [force] vs. spirit's force x2?

Binding + Magic [Force] v. spirit’s Force x 2. You need the Errata.

For general strength, an F3 spirit for average tasks, and F8 for your main battle buddy/a heavy lifter in another field. Keep the drain in the "totally or almost totally soaked Stun" range for most summons, unless you really need magic muscle.

>>49581168

Okay, thanks senpai.

How can I get myself a neat F12 spirit tank?

>>49581200
Do you know how strong force 12 is?

Shadowrun Storytime clocked Satan at 14.

F12 is bad news.

>>49581354

Yes, that's why I want one.

>>49581359
I assume then you first do a ritual to summon it.

Then ask really, really nicely.

>>49581404

Isn't summoning and binding it only 8+8 physical on average? With 11+11 dice to resist that, you should be able to do it alone especially after edge is factored in. And then you have a nice force 12 spirit to play with.

>>49581454
See >>49566872 or just read this:
No, it rolls a pool of 24 to resist BINDING, and you take Physical damage equal to twice its hits. Not its net hits, just how many hits it gets. So usually 16P or so, after the drain from summoning.

>>49581493

Oh right, it's twice the hits. So 8P from summoning, then 16P from binding, on average. That's a bit more troublesome, to be sure.

If you roll 11 dice to resist with edge, that's 5 hits on average, right?

So around 14P damage for the whole process, which is a bit nasty. I might have to settle for a force 11 spirit instead.

>>49581571
Or you can bargain with it. Spirits dont have to be bound to do thiings to my knowledge, infact most shamans refuse to bind theres.

You could probbably just convince Thor to fight with you if you make it worth its while.

>>49581571
If you're using edge for a roll, you add Edge to the pool and dice explode on a 6, iirc. Let's say you have 3 edge, because that's what a mage I built has.

11+3=14 dice, 2 6s on average which get rerolled, so 16 dice total, which is indeed an average of 5 hits. Of course, even if you're rolling 16 dice they're not always nice enough to follow standard statistical distributions, and there's a risk of glitching.

Force 11 gets a total dicepool of 33 for summoning and binding, resulting in an average of 11 hits and 22P drain, resisted with a total of 32 dice using Edge. So it'd still be 12P or so.


And you can still just try to convince the spirit to be nice.

>>49581645

But I'm specifically talking about binding it.

>>49581662
Well then your shit out of luck, stop trying to be a douche bag to minor gods.

>>49581571
Homie, you ALSO NEED NET HITS. Or else you fail AND take the drain.

Stop.

Just stop.

>>49581659

I was more of thinking using post roll edge.

11 dice, 3.6 hits on average and 8 dice rerolled = 2.64 hits. That's 6 or so hits on average. I rounded down to err on the side of caution.

My mage has 5 edge.

>>49581728

Yeah, but you just try until you succeed.

>>49581659
The biggest problem with binding a high-force spirit is the fact that there's a significant chance the binding will actually fail, even if you edge it, which gets you tons of drain damage plus thousands of nuyen wasted on reagents AND no binding.

If your spirit is rolling twice as many dice as you, Edge probably isn't going to help much. I rarely attempt bind spirits higher than 6 or 7 for that very reason.

>>49581779
>Yeah, but you just try until you succeed.
More like "try once and then take an 18-hour nap afterwards even if you succeed." The odds of surviving the drain a second time before sundown are lower than successfully binding it in the first place.

>>49581779
Or die. Dude if the spirit doesnt frag you its friends will, you do not need bad rep in the astral.

Cause until you bind it, IT can use edge too.

>>49581836

No, obviously you rest until you have an empty physical track and then you try summoning and binding again. Basically, you'd have to try summoning as many times as you needed to survive summoning without taking any damage and then risk binding.

File: You're Serious.jpg (17KB, 300x256px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 300x256px

>>49581877
So your plan is just to throw your time and health at the problem head-on, and hope that eventually the dice break your way and don't tip in the other direction and kill you? Good luck with that. Hope you find a lot of high-paying, non-dangerous runs so you can afford the reagents and medical bills while you wait for it to pan out.

>>49581877
You assume that you have unlimited time and resources and that your reputation won't fuck you over. If that's true, great for you, but things aren't likely to go that way.

>>49581929

Exactly. You try until you succeed or you die. This is obviously something that would be attempted during downtime.

>>49581939

I'd contact Horizon and try to get in some sort of a reality show.
>MAGE ATTEMPTS BINDING A FORCE 12 SPIRIT! WILL HE SURVIVE? TUNE IN TO FIND OUT! THE RESULT MAY OR MAY NOT SURPRISE YOU!

File: 1436646118371.jpg (224KB, 721x540px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 721x540px

>>49581779
>Yeah, but you just try until you succeed.
You realize that it costs 6k nuyen in Reagents every time you attempt to bind a Force 12 spirit, right?

And that you still only have finite services with it?

And that the number of services you have is based on net hits against a dice pool of 12 and then goddamn 24?

Summoning the spirit in the heat of the moment is reckless but possible, but attempting to actually bind it isn't just dumb, it's suicidal so.

Know what, homie, you do you. I hope you die on the first roll, so that you neither waste your own time, nor your entire group's.

>>49581999

It would be resolved in between sessions, of course.

>>49581978
Hey, that's actually kind of an interesting idea, especially if they're willing to fund the reagents. Doing dumb mage shit would be a cool show if you're a LA runner.

>>49581978
>DONT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS!
>NO SERIOUSLY THE SHAMANS WOULD KILL ME IF I ENDORSED THIS.
>I HAVE KIDS.
>I'M SCARED.

>>49582012
Best way to do it. Then you have time to make a new character who hopefully doesn't have Retarded (Painfully So) as a Negative Quality.

>>49581999
>And that you still only have finite services with it?
This. Even if - somehow - you manage to bind a Force 12 spirit without bankrupting yourself, killing yourself, or bankrupting your dead corpse? You're still only going to have, like, three wishes before you don't get to use it anymore anyway.

>>49582012
>I'm going to blow all of my money and probably kill my character trying to get a tiny handful of Services from a powerful spirit, rather than doing something productive like buying Foci
You're a moron.

>>49582042
>You're a moron.

No, I'm not. But my character kind of is.

>>49582042
>You're a moron.
He shot down the possibility of doing a group ritual and/or spirit pact. Of course he is.

>>49582058
First lesson everyone with RPG experience learns: If a person continually has his character act like a retard, and defends it with "It's what my character would do," it means that the idiot in that situation is not the one written on paper.

>>49582042
And youd probbably be more successful if you just had your face bargain with it.

>>49582058
No, you gone way beyond kinda. This is like if Steve Irrwel was deathly allergic to reptiles moronic.

Your character is going to die and shaman are going to break into your house and burn your corpse as a warning to all those who dare mock the totems.

>>49582058
>My Guy syndrome
ok

>>49582115

He's obsessed with controlling spirits, so yeah.

File: so funny bro.png (11KB, 390x470px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 390x470px

>>49582058
>No, I'm not.
>But my character kind of is.

>>49582129
You better be getting karma for this negative quality, its going to get you offed and unmissed.

>>49582129
If your character fails, he dies and the group groans because you just had your character commit suicide for no fucking reason.

If your character succeeds, the group groans because they have to put up with a shitty mage who didn't buy any foci, instead burning everything he had on squeezing three services out of a single spirit.

You're gaining almost no marginal utility from binding a Force 12 instead of a Force 8. The only meaningful difference is that it's more likely to kill you, it costs more money, and you get fewer wishes from your genie.

This is obsession to the point of it literally making the character less useful to the party than not even having him around, because he's just going to end up being a liability this way, blowing all of his money and downtime on something that isn't even really useful.

>>49582177

I could pick spirit pariah, but it's just an awful quality. He's not doing it out of malice or anything, and he treats his spirits with respect.

I visualised it as something that spiralled out of control during some point in time, and he's constantly trying to grab greater and greater spirits. Kind of like a deadly game of pokemon.

>>49582233
Your character is shit, and you're shit for playing it.

>>49582231

Yeah, that's obvious. But fluffwise mages get away with a lot of eccentricity because sufficiently powerful awakened individuals who are willing to work in the shadows are just that rare.

>>49582259
Fuck off.

>>49582310

You could try being nice, you know.

>>49582327
I already have and all I got from you was retarded bullshit and a delusion that it's ok to shit on your party because you're a special snowflake.

Fuck off.

>>49582347

I'm not shitting on them.

File: Absolutely Haram.jpg (72KB, 531x471px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 531x471px

>>49582356
Not him, but you kinda are.

You want to play a character who is obsessed with spirits, and wants to contact hueg spirits? That's an interesting concept, and you can play it in so many ways. You can try to join a secret society that will teach him shamanic mysteries, you can spend personal time on metaplanar journies to try and meet different spirits and see their existence, you could take over a wizgang and use them as support you callously sacrifice so you can get closer to your goal.

Instead, you do it like a retard. You waste money and your health trying to brute force a problem while walking a line that, mathematically, will kill you before it works out. In the meantime, you're going into every run with some boxes of damage and with shit tier equipment because you can't afford anything better.

You're taking what might be an interesting concept and playing it in the least interesting, most selfish way possible, a way that denies any RP or interesting situations for the group, so that one day you can make this uberspirit do one thing.

>>49582356
Your taking a bigger cut of the pay then your worth by spending all of it on a gamble that will give you less then a spirit pact.

Finally you are going to get spirits on your ass and everyone you know.

>>49582521

Yeah well I wouldn't start doing that from the get-go. The guy doesn't even have bound force 1 spirits right now.

>>49582532
>Your taking a bigger cut of the pay then your worth by spending all of it on a gamble that will give you less then a spirit pact.

What characters do with their money is their business. Absolutely nothing wrong with saving all of it or spending it on gambling, the only thing that matters is that you continue to be able to do your job. Which admittedly fucking around with F12 spirits would compromise, but hey, a man's gotta get his fix.

Okay, unfortunate conversation aside, how do I waifu a spirit?

>>49582558
Planning to be a shitty player in the future who is going to go ass-backwards into situations isn't much better than doing it from the start. Upside is that you still have time to not be an idiot, downside is that if you still decide to be an idiot they're going to need to replace the character partway through the campaign and hope that no plot hooks were stuck in your thick skull.

>>49582347
>>49582658
There are much worse possible drains on a party, like the guys who are like "I wanna play a guy who's shtick is he's abysmally unlucky" me being one of them, and with more even more unviable character concepts in store too

>>49582658
Wow stop being so rude. The character doesn't really mind the method by which he gets the spirit, only that he gets it. Of course he prefers being able to claim all credit for the act, but we'll see how it plays.

Also is there a way to get service refunds?

>>49582356
>I'm not shitting on them.
You're spending all of your money on being - if anything - worse at being a mage than you would have been by not even spending it, rather than making yourself more useful to the team.

On possibly getting yourself killed.

Of wasting all of the character interactions, plot hooks, and attention that everyone sent your way.

You're shitting on them both in and out of character.

>>49582679
Something else being shit does not mean that this stops being shit. It just means that they're two piles of shit.

Personally, I'd put "suicidal mage who doesn't understand basic math" at about the same level as "guy who refuses to get the standing negative qualities about being unlucky and insists the GM homebrew stuff until he's totally useless."

>>49582722
>Also is there a way to get service refunds?
No.

>The character doesn't really mind the method by which he gets the spirit, only that he gets it.
Then summon it without binding it, you tremendous faggot.

>>49582578
Actually if a runner spends it all on gambling or alchohal its explicitly stated in Run Faster that the person is unreliable and you should avoid running with them because its only a matter of time until they chip out or stab you for their next fix.
>>49582640
Shaman oath, you gotta be the nicest fucker to the astral, always give something nice, never hold services over so they are stuck till dawn, and let them use time not on the run to go drinking.

>>49582732
>You're spending all of your money on being - if anything - worse at being a mage than you would have been by not even spending it, rather than making yourself more useful to the team.

Not quite, but even if I was, so what? It's not the character's responsibility to get some retarded blingy toys that are barely useful anyway.

>On possibly getting yourself killed.

Lots of things in the sixth world can kill you. I have a different character who enjoys strolling in the wilderness. Would you scream at him too?

>Of wasting all of the character interactions, plot hooks, and attention that everyone sent your way.

That's not even remotely true. Personal life and professional life are completely separate things.

>You're shitting on them both in and out of character.

And you're just shitposting.

>>49582757
>Then summon it without binding it, you tremendous faggot.

That would be like meeting a pokemon and not getting it in the ball.

>>49582806
>That would be like meeting a pokemon and not getting it in the ball.
No, it wouldn't. It would be like releasing a genie and only having until sunrise to finish making your wishes, you tremendous faggot.

>>49582806
>That would be like meeting a pokemon and not getting it in the ball.

This is why your going to die. Every magic group that respects spirits are going to have bounties on you, your going to have shamans whose initiation ritual is publicly sodomozing you.

>>49582733
What about The guy who wants to play an AI that not only refuses to leave the drone it spawned from, but wants to play as a drone so mundane and useless that it doesn't deserve a statblock, modified if at all possible so it can at least hold a gun

>>49582806
>That's not even remotely true. Personal life and professional life are completely separate things.
He's talking about out of character effort. All the roleplaying you do with a character is thrown out the window if they die. The longer you wait, the more character development you have to kick people in the shin with a stupid death.

>>49582830
He wants spirit-mon anon

>>49582830

So, finding a pokayman and then following it until dusk/dawn instead of catching it.

>>49582859
>So, finding a pokayman and then following it until dusk/dawn instead of catching it.
No, the analogy is a flawed one in the first place, because the only possible way to 'catch' and 'keep' a spirit is to make an Ally Spirit.

Even if you Bind a spirit, once its Services (read: PP) are used up, it's gone forever, and there's no pokemon center to refresh its services, and no way to get them back.

If he wants to permanently own a powerful spirit in a way analogous to pokemon, he needs to buy Ally Spirit, create a powerful spiritual familiar, and have that - not try to bind a Force 12 spirit to get 3 services before it poofs out of existence.

If you have a character obsessed with OWNING a spirit, that's the actual way to do it - and it doesn't make you fucking worthless either, to boot!

>>49582859
Unless Pokemon got very different in the years since I stopped watching it, a good 70% of episodes were Ash meeting Pokemon and hanging out for a day before moving on, not running up to the biggest thing he could find, slashing up Pikachu with a knife to get it's attention, then wasting pokeballs by throwing them at something he had no hope of catching.

And that analogy still doesn't work, because you still would get services out of the spirit if you managed to summon it. It's your pokemon for a day, then you release it so it says good things about you to other pokemon.

>>49582919

I already said that he'd start working ground up. He's only got binding of 2 currently, and not a single spirit bound. He'll start by finding some low level spirits and moving up from there.

F12 would be the crown jewel.

>And that analogy still doesn't work, because you still would get services out of the spirit if you managed to summon it. It's your pokemon for a day, then you release it so it says good things about you to other pokemon.

The analogy works just fine. The objective isn't just to unlocking a pokedex entry (summoning a spirit), it's to fill the entry completely by catching it (binding the spirit). After catching, you'd release the pokemon into the wild and not stick it in the PC for an eternity. The same with the bound spirit, he'd just burn the services it owns and then let it go.

>>49582901

Ally spirits sound nice. I'll read a bit on them.

>>49583056
>he'd start working ground up

You don't seem to understand the problem. There is no 'working up' to binding a F12 spirit by yourself, unless your GM is stupidly generous with karma so you can afford to buy Binding and Magic ranks at stupid high ratings. You eventually hit that brick wall where it's impossible for you to take all the drain and roll enough dice to bind the spirit.

>The analogy works just fine. The objective isn't just to unlocking a pokedex entry (summoning a spirit), it's to fill the entry completely by catching it (binding the spirit). After catching, you'd release the pokemon into the wild and not stick it in the PC for an eternity. The same with the bound spirit, he'd just burn the services it owns and then let it go.

That's an asinine division because binding does nothing for you in terms of knowledge but only in terms of services, but OK. At least you might take an Ally Spirit and not be a total waste of time for the group.

>>49583168

>That's an asinine division because binding does nothing for you in terms of knowledge but only in terms of services

Of course it would. He'd just use the spirit for assist study, and then have the study be about the spirit itself.

Where, on the scale of power, do F10 spirits lie?

>>49583416
Satan is F14. F10 isn't far down from that.

>>49583602
Where's that number coming from, by the way?

>>49583602
Nonsense. Lofwyr has a bound F15 spirit of fire.

File: TwoDee Capybara.png (1MB, 1641x2188px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1641x2188px

>>49583627
It's from 2D Shadowrun Storytime. I don't know why anon is so hung up on it, it was just decided by the GM, we don't know what sort of special rules were used for that spirit pact, and it's 4e besides so it's not a perfect 1 to 1.

>>49583648
I'm more afraid of Lofwyr than Satan.

>>49583665
I'm not the original guy who posted that, but it seemed an interesting source.

>>49583875
>I'm more afraid of Lofwyr than Satan.
The point was that if Loffie has a bound spirit of greater force than fucking Satan, then something's off.

>>49583894
Satan is explicitly not the biggest guy on the block. Lofwyr bound the Biblical God, obviously.

What sorts of rude things could you say to Lofwyr to cyberbully him?

>>49583980
He was always inferior to Dunkelzahn and he'll still always be second best to a corpse.

>>49567850
>>49568016
can't we all agree
at least we're real deckers unlike the technoadepts who just beg dumb AI to do their hacking for them.
>and still being worse at it.

File: 1420957903633.png (538KB, 1212x1576px) Image search: [Google]

538KB, 1212x1576px

Melee adept with weapon focus sword and digigrade speed-legs. Yea or nay?

>>49584091
You're using up an awful lot of essence for that leg gimmick but I guess.

File: 1420957964647.png (619KB, 1168x908px) Image search: [Google]

619KB, 1168x908px

>>49584119
>You're using up an awful lot of essence for that leg gimmick
~2 Essence in order to get Armor 6, +2 Physical boxes, the ability to ignore 12m of fall distance, and a more-than-doubled movement speed for closing to melee. That's worth well more than 2 PP, I think.

>>49584119
>>49584177
Figure out whether you want to focus on adept or cyber as your main thing; if you want to take more than 2 essence of 'ware, it might be easier to go adept D (or not buy up Magic during karma-based chargen). After you've dropped your Essence without spending extra on burnt Magic ranks, you can spend 5 karma in-game to bring Magic back up to 1.

If you'd rather go high Magic, I'd suggest going Harvester instead. Movement power (self) ftw.

>>49584177
You can also drop the capacity by 8 in each leg and lose one physical box to make them partial limbs instead, for -0.9 essence rather than -2.

>>49584322
>You can also drop the capacity by 8 in each leg and lose one physical box to make them partial limbs instead, for -0.9 essence rather than -2.
You can't get armor, skimmers, digigrade, AND hydraulic jacks in partials. You'd have to lose the digigrade.

>>49584308
>>49584322
Digigrade is 1.25 essence.

>>49583648
Yeah, LOFWYR the DRAGON.

>>49583665
Well it was a mentor spirit of Adversary that was flavored as a Force 14 spirit. So the GM just decided to stat block totems.

It's used because even though its not actually satan it proves that 14 is so big that someone was comfortable using it to represent him.

>>49584322
Or you could take a centaur liminal body and get four digitigrade legs.

>>49584434
>hooves
>either digitigrade or plantigrade
KILL YOURSELF

>>49584380
No idea why you're reffing me with that, but;

>Digigrade is 1.25 essence
per leg.

During the 2050's, who would you say would be the main law enforcement groups in San Francisco? Mitsuhama?

>>49584446
Because you were stupid enough to suggest that 2 digitigrade legs were 2 essence. 1.25*2 is what?

>>49584467
Read it again, dumbass; >>49584308.

I mentioned specific 'ware, where?

>>49584177
Is this all 4th ed stuff? I can't see these options in 5th.

>>49584562
No, it's all 5e stuff. Most of it's core rulebook too.

Digitigrade and Skimmers are Chrome Flesh.

Cyberlimbs with armor, hydraulic jacks, and Agility boosts are Core.

>>49584562
>Chummer 5
Have you checked your book list, under Tools/Options?

>books/pdfs
Chrome Flesh.

File: SR5 p.451, 456, 457; CF p.89.png (193KB, 664x523px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 664x523px

>>49584380
>>49584446
>>49584467

(Leg)+0.25 if you get them on their own, yes.

>>49584308
>Figure out whether you want to focus on adept or cyber as your main thing; if you want to take more than 2 essence of 'ware, it might be easier to go adept D (or not buy up Magic during karma-based chargen). After you've dropped your Essence without spending extra on burnt Magic ranks, you can spend 5 karma in-game to bring Magic back up to 1.

Depends entirely on how your GM handles it. Some people will rule that it takes you as much karma to raise by one as it would have before you lost the magic points. So if you had 2, and went to zero, getting 1 point of magic would take you 15 karma.

Which is completely fair if you ask me.

>>49584630
Some people will, but I've never seen them do so with any rules to stand on. However fair a table ruling is, it's still only legit for that table.

File: Fred_Augis_Concept_Art_Design_02.jpg (359KB, 1920x1366px) Image search: [Google]

359KB, 1920x1366px

Has anybody tried to make a rigger/aspected alchemist combo in 4e?

>>49584351
Sure, but if you made them alphaware (only 2k per leg for partials) and took Biocompatibility you've got 0.36 essence left to play with for other cyberware with a minimum 10% discount to their costs (or bioware without the discount) while keeping 1 more PP.
Maybe a bit more of an investment than is deserved, but hey, options.

File: Celty-Sturluson-celty-sturluson-38732069-849-1200.jpg (123KB, 849x1200px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 849x1200px

So I see Shadowrun has dragons and elves and shit. Does it have fae or dullahan, that sorta thing?

On the internet, nobody knows you don't have a head, after all.

>>49584764
>Does it have fae
They're called elves.

>dullahan
No.

>>49584726

The rules don't state how much karma it takes to raise your special attributes after they get ruined by essence, it only says that you lose magic or resonance. It makes a lot of sense that essence lowers your maximum as well as current, and the closer you get to maximum, the more it costs.

Since the official rules don't state anything, table rules are all we have.

>>49584764
>Does it have fae

Fairies are in the game.

>>49584783
>the closer you get to maximum, the more it costs
... No, the higher above 0, the more an attribute costs.

>The cost to improve an attribute is new Rating x 5 Karma.

Official rules are just fine. There's a handy dandy table on p107 for people who can't read good and would still like to be able to play games better.

>>49584891

The table doesn't cover essence loss though.

There are downsides to ruining your holity by bolting on chrome, chummer.

>>49584783
The actual fuck are you talking about? It costs New Rating * 5 Karma - period. It doesn't matter how close you are to your maximum, it matters how close you are to your minimum. That's why it's exorbitantly expensive for Initiates to buy up to 7+ magic, for example.

The rules are explicit as fuck about exactly how much it costs to raise your attributes.

>>49584902
Essence loss is irrelevant to the cost of attributes.

>>49584920

Quote me that part from the book, please?

>>49584902
The game also doesn't say that essence loss causes Strength to cost more - after all, you're messing up the holistic balance of your body.

Don't be retarded.

>>49584926
>Quote me that part from the book, please?
You're the one making a positive claim. The burden of proof is on you. Indicate anywhere that suggests that buying up magic after Essence loss follows anything other than the exact rules for buying attributes.

File: SR5 p.125, 278, 325.png (141KB, 454x388px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 454x388px

>>49584926

>>49584938

This part, please.
>Essence loss is irrelevant to the cost of attributes.

>>49584935

>The game also doesn't say that essence loss causes Strength to cost more - after all, you're messing up the holistic balance of your body.

Quote me the part where essence loss drops strength, please?

>>49584951
You're a fucking moron.

>>49584958

Like I said, the book doesn't say, so it's fine to rule it either way.

>>49584926
I've already done so; >>49584891.

It's you who has to provide evidence that anything works differently from the base rules.

>>49584969
>The cost to improve an attribute is new Rating x 5 Karma.
You can houserule whatever you want, chummer, but to pretend that you're not houseruling counter to the rules is fucking retarded.

>>49584951
>Essence loss is irrelevant to the cost of attributes
If you want to show somewhere it is made relevant to the cost of attributes, go ahead. Otherwise,
>Losing essence reduces current magic rating
>The cost to increase magic rating is based on current magic rating
>Therefore, losing essence also reduces the cost to advance the lowered magic rating

>>49584969
>the book doesn't say, so it's fine to rule it either way
That's called houseruling.

>>49584969
Ignoring RAW isn't the same as RAW being unclear.