Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>49216268

Thank you OP.

>>49216298
no problem

>>49216141
>>49216167
>>49216183
>>49216195
>>49216200
>>49216281
Thanks guys, I'll give it a go I think. DM is generally pretty forgiving about feats, especially for me since I don't play optimized builds generally. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Is soulknife as shit as it was in 3.5 or is it finally fixed?

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>>49216268
I am the dedicated crafter in the party, and I'm still waiting for the other players to get me a list of the stuff they want, so I know what to make the next time we have downtime. Gonna have to just compile my own list or go with the basic stuff if they don't come forward, though it's likely I might just work on just stuff for myself and my companion creature.

Fuck our summoner though. She's on two strikes, two and a half if you count all the whining about being "useless" and "a burden" all the time. I'm not making jack shit for her.

>>49216268
I was the dedicated crafter in my group's last game, and had such a ridiculous spellcraft check that the checks were never an issue, even when rushing the crafting an ignoring pre-reqs. The DM never made any house rules for crafting, which was good because I was the entire party's magic item factory in Kingmaker.

Now I'm the group's DM and my players have no item crafter in a campaign that will be rarely visiting towns or cities to buy items. I gave them a magic bell that summons an interplanar merchant, but they're afraid to ring it. They're seriously contemplating summoning the merchant to sell the bell to him. I think they think it's cursed, or that the merchant is evil, or something. If they pawn the thing off and start complaining about a lack of magic gear later on, I'll gleefully remind them that they have themselves to thank for it.

>>49216401
It's better than it was, but it's still probably Tier 4 at best. If you tack Gifted Blade and Warsoul on it you can manage Tier 3 pretty easily, even more so if your GM gives the Gifted Blade manifesting automatically.

Psychic Armory is also a blast.

>>49216476
Psychic Armory can eat a dongus.

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>>49216416
>spoiler

Fuck's with people and this 'three strikes' bullshit? Second chances shouldn't come twice.

>>49216483
Is that you, Parrot?

>>49216448
Is the bell at will or once per day?
Sounds incredibly useful, being able to sell all the loot in the dungeon immediately.

>>49216345
If your DM is lenient, try and ask that he allows the Empiricist and Questioner archetypes to stack. Both archetypes replace/remove Poison Lore.

What you'll get from the Empiricts/Questioner is the best Skilmonkey Class in Pathfinder.

>Bard Spell list
>Level advancing Knowledge
>INT-based Social skill checks
>INT-based Perception and Sense Motive

Its not gonna shine in combat, but with Bard Support Spells, Studied Combat and Studied Strike, you won't be pulling the party down either.

>>49216500
It's at-will, but with a random delay between the time the bell is rung and when the merchant actually appears (fluff-wise, because he might already be busy with customers or otherwise preoccupied) and the bell itself rings very loudly. I feel that's ample discouragement against abusing it. If the players ring the bell mid-dungeon they're probably alerting some nearby enemies to their presence.

Also the merchant himself would probably get annoyed if the PCs are calling him back every few minutes to pawn off a new item they found.

How do I most effectively Barbarian with unarmed strikes? Is there an archetype for it? I want to rip and tear with my bear hands.

>>49216569
Why would any sane DM let them stack, though? They both trade out the same class feature for different things.

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>>49216492
First strike was a gut feeling that they would be a problem, and watching their shitty attitude. Second strike was them actually being a twat and causing a problem. Usually I don't last past two strikes, and once upon a time I wouldn't even tolerate one. Waiting on a third strike is just me being polite to the rest of the group, because quite frankly they at least deserve a breather before more drama happens.

>>49216652
Sometimes it can open up neat concepts without being overpowered.

>>49216652
Its a hypothetical 'IF the DM allows'.

I've had good fortune of having my DM allow it, if only because the rest of the 5 man group are too focused on combat, that I had to take the role of 'plot-advancer and lore-keeper (i.e. take notes and tell the party the logical next step to the DM's game')

As for combat, I can't really do any broken shit. I pull out my trusty canesword and hand crossbow basically trying to disadvantage my opponents with dirty trick and studied strikes.

>>49216652
>>49216669
You know, honestly I'm not totally against allowing things like that, but the problem is that doing so sets a precedent and expectation for your players. If you allow it for Joe, Bob will complain next week about how he should be able to take Hexcrafter AND Bladebound, and if you don't let him he's going to accuse you of favoritism.

On the other hand, fuck Bob.

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>>49216734
>If you allow it for Joe, Bob will complain next week about how he should be able to take Hexcrafter AND Bladebound

>>49216268
>Do you have a dedicated crafter in your party?
Ya.
>Does your GM put any house rules on crafting?
I'm the DM, the dude has a homebrew alchemist archetype which trades away all poison shit for a craft-only equivalent of versatile performance, which lets him replace ever more craft skills with one craft skill (which is called something silly like craft(tinkering)). By the end of the campaign, he should be able to replace all craft skills.

As for houserules per se, we the "Making Craft Work" rules with heavy DM moderation - I give DC's and craft times pretty much always, since even the base rules feel too slow for us.

And for magic items, we use unchained crafting with some further alterations.

>>49216734
>On the other hand, fuck Bob.

Bob is chill. At least he rolled a magus and by design, that class isn't broken.

Steve is rolling a Psychic Mage Wizard/Psion

>>49216734
>Bob will complain next week about how he should be able to take Hexcrafter AND Bladebound
But that is entirely RAW legal without any DM alterations.

>>49216734
I don't disagree, and it's a lot of work. You might have players complaining because they're overpowered combo isn't allowed by steve's is, even though steve's is less game breaking.

>>49216818
>Psychic Mage Wizard
Fuck Steve.

>>49216767
>>49216833
>>49216818
I picked a poor example of archetypes for Bob, but that's also not exactly the point of my post.

>>49216856
And that's the thing. You also have to be careful that you do actually recognize what would be overpowered and what wouldn't be. If you've got a player that continues to bitch about it after you say no and explain your reasoning though, that's probably a problem player (hence, "fuck Bob").

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>>49216268
>Do you have a dedicated crafter in your party?
Yes, me.

I'm also responsible for "This is why we can't have nice things" because I rolled a Construct Rider Alchemist / Siege Mage Wizard and created a literal mammoth tank that can launch artillery fire 100ft away, rain poison gas upon a field, and single-handedly destroy castle fortifications.

I practically committed war crimes in a fantasy world because nobody had written the Nuremberg Code yet.

>Do you have a dedicated crafter in your group?
Yeah, that's me
>Does your GM put any house rules on crafting?
Nope

I have to craft for a party of 8 though, and they're forcing me to pay for the crafted items, because I don't contribute to combat (AKA I buff/debut)
I haven't crafted anything for them for 3 sessions.

>>49216898
>A poor example
>You picked something that, prior to a retarded errata that nobody pays attention to, explicitly stacked

At least use something that can't actually stack in your example, anon.

>>49216987
But it doesn't stack now. If you still understood their point then why does it matter?

>>49216987
Wait what, what errata? I thought Bladebound+Hexcrafter still stack perfectly normally.

>>49217015
Because it's not the same thing at all. Bladebound and Hexcrafter never actually replace the same thing. Hexcrafter gives you the option of taking a hex as any of your arcana, not "Your 3rd level arcana must be a hex". Meanwhile, what you are doing is stacking archetypes that both replace poison lore for completely different features, giving you two things for the price of one. It's a shitty attitude to take, and one that completely ignores one of the few reasonable rules in the entire system.

>>49217090
What I was quoting said the stuff didn't stack before errata. I was just going off of that. I'm not the person, I was just saying that, even with the error, their point was still understood, then there's no point in focusing on the error. Pointing it out that it's an error, sure, but not focusing on it.

If I have a field of wheat, how much wheat will I get per round? Also, which cow is the best if I want to get milk and have more cows?

>>49217015
It only does not stack because paizo is a bunch of assholes who are anal retentive about wording, and using it as a "bad example of stacking" only serves to make him look like a massive cunt. It does the opposite of proving his point.

>>49217158
0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a bushel per round. Roughly

>>49217191
percent of, sorry

>>49217191
>>49217221
So it would take 6x10^30 years to harvest one bushel of wheat?
Damn.

>>49217274
Now you know why that loaf of bread at the grocery seems so expensive.

>>49217281
But that time is longer than the time the universe has existed.
Does our bread come from the beginning of time?

>>49217274
>6x10^30
*6 quintillion

>>49217317

Ours, no. Dwarf bread? Possibly.

>>49217317
If it helps I calculated for a field of one plant, as the dimensions werent specified. I also based my calculations off of average midevil crop rates. I may have bullshitted. But it's actually super unlikely without more info that your harvesting much grain "per round" assuming you mean a combat round

>Want to DM a game
>Can't be bothered finding players

>>49217495
You don't then, you're just teasing the people that can't get games.

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What's the cheesiest build you've ever made, /pfg/?

The one build that no DM would ever allow near their table.

>>49217552
trox from the race builder, all the grapple and cleave feats.

>>49217552
I had a melee support based on binder/hex... class?/paladin of tyranny with unseelie fae. The cheesiest one I actually played was an archivist into warweaver (modified for divine spells)

>>49217552
I way over min-maxed an Arcanist once. Had every spell that I could possibly have in my book and quick study. Needless to say that DM doesn't allow me to play with him anymore. It was his fault for giving us a 25 point buy and every possible class Paizo had printed, plus our choice of races that were 20RP or less.

The whole gimmick was to have the exact spell to end each encounter right after it started. It was more a fact of my spending a week memorizing all the spells and applications for them and having every monster-identifying knowledge skill boosted as far as I could get it that made it ridiculous.

>>49217552
Antipaladin / Dread

I don't blame him. I can reduce everyone's resistance to fear effects by -8. Use disheartening display to frighten everything in a 30ft radius, and my intimidate is at +30 at 6th level.

And I only get more broken at 11th level with Shadow Twin

And that's not even before considering taking PoW for Black Seraph shenanigans or SoP for fear-enchantment bullshittery

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>check PFSRD for Devolutionist Druid
>no additional alignment restrictions, just the ones Druids already have

So what would drive an NG Druid to devolve both animals and humanoids, presumably without any real spite or malice?

>>49217552
Half-giant mythic Bolt Ace for a +size minotaur crossbow, with mythic vital strike and the champion path for UNLIMITED RANGE

>>49217552
Blackpowder Inquisitor / Gunsmoke Mystic had my DM ripping his hair out.

There's just no hard counter for my build.

Is the DM for that tristalt madness game still here? My schedule is abruptly wide open and I was hoping to apply.

>>49217699
>be orphan on the street
>treated like dirt where ever you go
>nice lady offers to take all the pain away, to give you a nice home.
>lady has been devolutionizing the forgotten/aimless and releasing them to carefree lives in the wild.
(Looking over the archetype now, you could in theory give yourself the advanced template by applying that ritual twice)

>>49217699

A deep-seated desire to make giant ground sloths a thing again?

>>49211090
So basically, for that scenario, he'd use his attack and let's say he hit with both, each attack dealing 1d6 damage. He gets a 6 and a 5, basically making 1 hp of damage to the zombie. And then he'd roll another 2d6 damage(1d6 for each weapon) while in this stance, and the DR would apply for that as well for every 1d6?

>>49217894
No. The DR only reduces each individual attack once.

>>49217963
Exactly. Two attacks, each deals 1d6, meaning it gets DR'd twice (due to two attacks). The question is how does DR work on maneuvers. Is it special damage or weapon damage unless explicitly typed. In the scenario of that stance, that says you get an extra 1d6 per attack, it would apply twice since two attacks were made?

>>49218059
What's the maneuver? If it just adds +1d6 damage to your attack then it would be 2d6 that then goes through DR if it's unspecified or DR and energy resistance if it's elemental damage added.

>>49216401

It is okay at what it is supposed to do, and with gifted blade manifesting you get a bit of utility.It is definitely miles ahead of the 3.5 version.

>>49217699
Justice. They believe that with Man's Mind comes Man's capacity for cruelty. Thus, only the truly kind and compassionate deserve sentience. For the wicked is reserved a much more merciful fate than death; a return to the wild, to start over.

>>49218059
Weapon damage, plus strength/dex modifier, plus enhancement bonus, plus boost/strike. All one number, for each attack. Just like every other weapon attack in the game.

>>49218059
If memory serves, the rule is that unless its specifically stated as typed, additional damage is the type of damage as what the weapon inflicts.

And precision I think doesn't count for this, it's not so much a damage type as it is an affix to an additional damage type.

So Sneak Attack for instance would be precision bludgeoning damage with a sap.

Of course I can't for the life of me remember WHERE I read this rule.

>>49216604
No strings attached will always cause a Pavlov reaction that there will be a price to pay.
Why not the next time they summon the merchant, you use him as a side quest plothook to get access to better magic gear?

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Somewhat of a newb here, where can I find the first Strange Aeons book for free?

>>49218072
Outer sphere stance from Thrashing dragon

When wielding two weapons while in this stance, the disciple gains +1d6 points of damage with his weapons and suffers a -2 penalty to AC. The AC penalty to this decreases by 1 once the character's initiator level reaches 8th, and is negated at 16th initiator level. Upon reaching 10th initiator level, the bonus damage increases to 2d6.

That's the specific example. It's a stance. I ask, because there are shitloads of maneuvers like that which say in non specific or half specific terms that it adds weapon damage, which would lead me to think that it also gets soaked alongside with the weapon damage from the actual hit, but I was not sure. I remember in the days of Tome of Battle, maneuver damage was usually specific and not weapon related, but extra untyped damage that you just kind of deal not related to the normal attack damage.

>>49218114
That would make sense for strikes, I guess. What about stances that add passive bonuses like the one above mentioned?

>>49218117
Yeah, not really easy to handle some shit. I spent like an hour yesterday fucking around with grapple rules and my head still hurts with pinned-grappled shit and why exactly would you ever pin someone who can also get out of the entire thing with one check.

thinkin about making a winged marauder, how viable/fun are they?

>>49218231
Oh, I'm good with grapple.

Basically, the deal is that Pinned actually STOPS them from doing things. Grappled doesn't stop them from doing things like attack you, pinned does. Also, if you've gotten to that first maintain, there's little reason NOT to pin them. It's a choice you make upon succeeding, you don't have to roll again for it or anything.

So... Can you really ride a Blink Dog, game mechanic wise?

Wouldn't that constant blink mean the rider will fall down every so often?

>>49218239
What is your starting level? Because your companion doesn't have enough strength to carry a naked average goblin at level 1.

>>49218282
Dimension Door brings friends along.

>>49218306

Blinkdog DD is self only

>>49218315
Then it's useless for riding on, unless you are inside a portable hole that it is carrying and don't need air.

>>49218264
I had a situation yesterday when a Gelatinous cube rolled over one of the party members. It used that engulf thing that it has which basically, if you fail the save, pins you immediately. So, I went to see what pin is. It makes you unable to act, aside from being able to cast somatic spells, but the moment you save, you are no longer pinned - or grappled, but free. If I remember, if you saved in 3.5 from a pinned, you were considered grappled again, but I might be misremembering.

Not even to mention, that when you are grappling, even if you are the one doing the grapple, you lose your Dex, are basically prone getting the shit kicked out of you by everyone else and the such. I don't know. Aside from tying someone up and then instant killing him, seems like a lot of effort for something that might not be all that ideal.

>>49218306
>>49218315
I'm more worry about constant blink, not Dimension Door.

>>49218328
>You lose your Dex

Nope.

Grappled/ing is only a -4 to dex. Pinning completely removes a character's dexterity bonus. A grappler who's pinning someone isn't pinned, but still loses their dex to AC (And ONLY AC, whereas pinned removes their dex bonus FOR EVERYTHING.)

>>49218388
This also means that Agile Maneuvers is crud for grapplers, incidentally. Since the mere act of grappling someone makes you worse at grappling. A -2 on maintains due to the -4 from the grappled conditions, and god help you if you're actually trying to escape a pin using Agile Maneuvers. I hope you enjoy that +0 modifier.

>>49218380
Ghost touch saddle.

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Weaboo-homebrewfag here, back at it with another Samurai Archetype. Up on the roasting block this week is the Three-Sword Style, an offense-based samurai.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zE8yJYxd6ARrqEQrdyzxQ5tedP1ffGiTp5xBb_C2ywI/edit?usp=sharing

I also have thoughts of releasing a series of Samurai Archetypes since samurai feels lacking in terms of archetypes. Would /pfg/ be interested in seeing some other variations on the samurai?

>>49218459
That image has some horrifyingly bad proportions.

Has anyone run a John Carter from Mars style adventure?

>friend recommends me rage prophet for my oracle 1/barb X heavily focused on rage powers
Fuck no, thus shit doesn't get rage powers, I ever won't get come and get me

>>49218901
Too boring, especially when there's like, 4 or 5 John Carters, and you're basically at his power level at level 10 anyway

Waifu kitsune kineticist PoW.

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>>49219728

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>be level 10 wizard (pact wizard)
>Mind patron
>get into fight
>spontaneously cast Psychic Asylum as a 5th level spell
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/psychic-asylum
>use the 15 minutes to prepare the best spells possible for the fight

Is this too dirty?

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>>49219728

Couldn't we have a character that's all four?

is there a discord for pf?

>>49220016
Seeing as Path of War classes can redo stuff in 10 minutes inbetween battles and have all their "spells" back in 1 minute, that doesn't seem dirty.

That harpy is 100% dirty. How did she get the start in place without hands?

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>>49220069
>PoW initiators = full casting pact wizards

>>49220092
Wizards break time and space blah blah. The rules behind them are outdated and stupid.

>>49220016
That's amazingly cheesy and I love it.

Kinda new into 3.PF, question, how natural attacks work? If I have Bite, Gore, Hooves and Claws, can I make those 4? or I only can make either bite or gore and either claws or hooves?

>>49220163
>Cheesy
It isn't, 15 minutes is so intentionally obvious made for preparing spells it hurts

>>49220173
You can make all the attacks you're entitled to, when you spend a full-round action attacking.

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>>49220016
>>49220163
>>49220192
>If you're able to prepare spells, you can use the time to prepare a single spell.

Does this change if you can prepare ALL YOUR SPELLS in 15 minutes?

>>49220203
I think you can prepare up to 1/4th your spells with 15 mins.

>>49220203
>The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
Same for wizard

>>49220203
Yes. Situational>general.

You get to prepare one spell. Period.

Specifically to avoid bullshit like you're trying to pull.

>>49217699
Can you Awaken an animal after it's been Devolved?

>>49220246
>>49220203
Fast Study.

>>49220528
I think you mean Pact Wizard.

>>49220561
Nothing about Pact Wizard stops them from taking arcane discoveries as usual.

>tfw paizo shills see nothing wrong in CMD exponentially escalating like crazy
>their go to reply is "well, you aren't supposed to [insert maneuver] large or bigger creatures, is not realistic"
Fuck God I hate that people

>>49220630
Make sure to bring up how fast a level 1 human barbarian is (can outrun Usain Bolt while wearing full armor)

Make sure to bring up the ability to rip out someone's (by someone i mean a level 1 human commoner) heart and have them suffer no negative effects (and recover with a good night's sleep) [Bloody Fist Rage power removes a vital organ on unarmed crit, dealing 1d4 Con DAMAGE]

Make sure to mention that a level 1 human barbarian can survive a fall from any height with fair odds of walking away (12 base HP, +5 Con, +1 FCB, Endurance/Diehard means he doesn't die until he's taken 38 damage, which 20d6 can be below)

>>49220627
Pact Wizards don't need Fast Study.

>>49220682
To br fair strength surge barbarians are also like, the only ones who can actually do combt maneuvers at high levels so...

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>>49220630
>is not realistic

>>49220705
Doesn't change the fact that "muh realism" is defeated by level 1 barbarians and commoners.

Oh, and I forgot the really funny option. If you grab one of the barbarian archs that lets you use your skills while raging, Halfling Barbarian with the Clumsy Slave trait can nonlethally Bloody Fist someone, removing a vital organ, then Bluff them into thinking it was an accident. YOU CAN CONVINCE SOMEONE YOU ACCIDENTALLY TORE OUT THEIR LIVER.

>>49220682
>Remove brain
It's ok bro, it was a prank

>>49220704
They plainly get Fast Study.

>>49220765
>>49220781
>Halfling jumps up and spin kicks a dude so hard his brain flies out his ear
>YOU STUPID CLUMSY MIDGET! NOW I NEED TO GO LIE DOWN FOR A FEW HOURS!

Does anyone know what the exact deal with the Cult of the Dawnflower is? All I keep getting is that they are militant and might be serial killers in Taldor. I've been trying to find a way to work them into a campaign I am running since the players are going to be involved with some action they pull off to spark a war between Taldor and Qadira.

>>49215700
You may want to consider allowing other firearms to later be used for the bond and shooting-star (charge-replacement too), though the usual three starters are the usual. There are several reasons for this:

>Heavy Machinegun Witch
>Freezing Plasma Cannon (hey does that replace one or both damage types?)
>Electrolaser pistol
>Cannon guy, uh... Manwitch?
>Flamethrower fires fucking ice and lightning now that's why
>Culverin Noisemarines
>Acid Arc Beam Rifle

Alternate hilarity: Energy weapons suffering the shooting-star treatment actually have to choose a physical damage type instead. The rest is of course unaffected. Slasher lasers, freezingly piercing zero rifles, etc.

>>49216401
It wasn't all that much better than the 3.5 one when it came out, but it WAS a bit better what with the addition of blade skills.

However it wasn't until like what, two years ago? That archetypes and upgrades to it finally made it really, really good.

Soulknife archetypes now include the Warsoul, Psychic Armory and Living Legend, all three of which are the most notable and capable variants. The first is a Tome of Battle (called Path of war now) initiator that still keeps most of its bladeskills and abilities, on top of gaining access to a far better "emulate weapon" bladeskill that allows them to be one of the rare classes capable of actually using tech-guide weapons without sucking giant salty donkey balls.

The Psy-Armory is a cross between Kreia's three-flying-lightsabers and that gilgamesh guy from those Fate games. It has all the advantages of range and melee in the same individual hits, and is very, very effective.

The Living Legend is basically a new different class of its fucking own, taking on two of (seven was it?) "roles"; ability packages with different soul-weapons built in, for a result that while not as offensively powerful as the two above, is exceptionally versatile day to day, and can easily play "backup class X" to damn near anything; even fucking cleric domains are not out of their grasp. You'll probably focus on 2-3 main roles at the expense (build-wise, as in feat support, etc) of the others, but that's still a fuckton you can do.

While the original will forever be stuck as rather-shitty, the "we strongly recommend that the standard, "high magic" campaign give them gifted blade progression for free" helps bring them from Tier 5-6 into a strong 4, and the actual alternative archetypes can cross well into third.

>>49221278
Even without the "high magic" campaign, I was under the impression that DSP's Soulknife was a Tier 4 class that could move up to Tier 3 with VERY specific archetype combinations, (i.e. Gifted Blade + Nimble Blade, etc).

>>49221278
>Everyone forgets augmented blade, the base soulknife+
Sad.

It's compatible with Warsoul, though.

>>49220173
You can make all of the attacks. They do not get iterative attacks, though. All secondary natural attacks are made at -5 to attack, unless you take Multiattack, which changes the penalty to -2.

>>49220173
As a standard action, you can make one attack. As a full-round action, you can use each natural attack once, regardless of any iteratives you'd otherwise be entitled to.

>>49221738
>>49221793
>>49220198
I know that I can make more attacks depending on my BAB with natural attacks, but can I make bite and gore (tusks) in the same turn? they're both made with jaws. Same with hooves and claws.

>>49221847
Insert tusks, squeeze down with teeth. Not impossible.

>>49221847
>can't* make more attacks depending on my BAB
Fuck my fingers

>>49221847
Yes. They are different attacks, so you can do it.

>>49221278
I can't seem to find the living legend, you have a link?

Has anyone here played as an artificer?
Is it any good compared to a core class?

>>49222069
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472513-Dreamscarred-Press-Psionics-Augmented-Occult

It's in the pastebin

>>49217815
>>49218097
Huh. Honestly I think I'll use a mix of these for my next PC.

>>49220260
Apparently yes. Awaken, Wish, and Miracle can dispel it.

Wonder what going from Humanoid to Animal to Magical Beast would do to your psyche. Would you get part of your original personality back after being Awakened, or is this a factory reset?

There are 11 different fiend subtypes each with at least a half-dozen monsters. Why do we need so many subtypes for every niche concept a freelancer decides to invent for every bestiary? When are all these niche and esoteric distinctions ever relevant to playing the game? Why can't we have the same variety within a smaller number of subtypes?

>>49222313
Does anyone have the PDF versions of the Occult stuff?

>>49222469
Careful friend, that's the kind of thinking that could lead to a fleshed-out and well-developed setting, and we can't have that.

>>49222469
Because bloat is the only thing that allows Paizo to still continue pushing PF content, since they ran out of creativity a long time ago.

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Is there any good reason to not cut the price of an Amulet of Mighty Fists to the same value as an enchanted weapon? It has been pointed out to me that 1) creatures that rely on multiple natural attacks get extra benefit from the item as compared to someone who wields an enchanted weapon for iterative attacks and b) because a monk's flurry is just Two-Weapon Fighting, and amulet should be priced in accordance to what a typical TWF would have to pay to keep both of their weapons enchanted.

>>49222718
Druids are already powerful enough, and you should've replaced core monk with unchained already.

>>49222756
It's not my fault that my player insisted on using a chained monk even after I suggested to him that an unchained monk would be a better idea.

>>49222778
If he's ignoring your advice, you shouldn't go out of your way to make him balanced with the rest of the party, either.

>>49218097
Asmodeus pls, freewill and intelligence does not equal auto evil. You're not fooling anyone.
This is what happens when you spend too much time hanging out with Lucifer

>>49222821
I'm just trying to get my under-WBL party up closer to where they should be and trying to figure out how I want to count AoMFs into that.

>>49222718
Just have one as loot, if you have to have them kill a druid or abyss bloodline whatever.

>>49222875
To fix them being under WBL, you shouldn't tinker with prices or any of that shit, you should tinker with the loot you're giving them.

Is anyone excited for the divine magic handbook that's coming up? I know I'm burning in anticipation of all the disappointment it'll have in it. I can't wait for all the best stuff to be for arcane casters again, even though it's supposed to be for divine classes.
tfw good paladin archetypes never

>>49223003
I am tinkering with the loot I'm giving them. If I'm going to throw 4,000 GP of stuff at the Monk, deciding whether an Amulet of Mighty Fists is worth 2,000 or 4,000 GP is important.

I'm inclined to make it worth 2,000 GP but I'm wary about one of the party's two TWFers complaining or someone trying to make a natural attack-focused character down the line getting another buff they don't need. Or... Do they need it? How well do natural attack-based PC builds hold up? The only ones I've made never saw actual play.

>>49223074
Well, actually, I think I'd be down for a Nethys-specific archetype of cleric that makes them arcane casters.

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>>49223074
>More stuff for Arcane Casters
>including more Magaambyan Arcanist stuff
>tfw I like Magaambya and the ideas behind it, but absolutely despise the stuff for it and how its handled
Jatembe once had a dream, until Paizo and his retarded successors butchered it.

>>49223103
In that case, see >>49222756

>>49223103
Why worry down the line? If there's no natural attacker now then just have it as loot.

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Trying to make a Fighter/Rogue Lizardfolk dude. I'm not looking for anything OP, just want to be an opportunistic, burly skillmonkey.

Any feats you guys recommend? Starting around level 5, probably going to make a custom race from the book.

>>49223390
First off, do you have access to 3pp?

>>49223390
>I'm not looking for anything OP
Don't worry, we already got that from "Fighter/Rogue"

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>>49223414

No clue, probably not. He's pretty chillax though, so as long as it isn't ridiculous I can get a feat or two (probably).

>>49223390
>opportunistic, burly skillmonkey.
Alchemist

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>>49223439
You may actually want an alchemist; vivisectionist in particular. Sneak attack dice, mutagen gives it decent combat ability, and your extras gives you (and your party) buffs so you don't need to beg for a fly spell from the wizard to take part in a fight with a bunch of harpies or whatever

>>49215700
I guess one of the problems there lies with using PoW as a basis of comparison, given as you're then making things that will always do a Gunslinger's job better.

While I do get that Gunslinger is pretty bad, it's difficult to work in using Gun Witch when it essentially assumes that martials will be PoW.

I'd definitely like to give Gun Witch a try myself, but it seems a little unfair to do a Gunslinger's job better overall.

As loathe as I am to say it, could a more 1pp-friendly version be a thing? It'll help for those of us who are still familiarizing ourselves with 1pp content and are a bit wary od branching out into things like PoW, where the balance of gameplay can be affected.

Appreciate any thoughts or consideration.

>>49223480
>but it seems a little unfair to do a Gunslinger's job better overall.
Nah. Using that line of thought we'd have never gotten better rogue likes.

>>49223496
And monks...and fighters...and rangers

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>>49223440
>>49223464

I'll take a look at it, but I'm purposefully looking for something I more or less know. I had a two year long PF campaign years ago, but haven't touched PF since Gunsliger came out. We have some players who are new to PnP in general, and I want to be able to help them without learning something new.

Feats are where I'm trying to inject some new stuff.

>>49223496
>>49223515
It's hard to use something that is built on the assumption that PoW is always allowed in a campaign.

It's cool and all, but my group hasn't really touched on it because we've really only been playing for about a year now and haven't even mastered 1pp. Expanding into something that requires rebalancing just to provide a decent challenge makes things difficult.

>>49223523
That's fair, but I warn you that multiclassing in this game is heavily punished; it's why people are suggesting an alternate, single-class route to get what you want rather than trying to work out your fighter/Rogue multiclass.

If you still want to go for it, that's fine, it's your game and you know what level your GM operates at. Just bear in mind that this may well be something you have more fun with.

Anyways, if you want to be "an opportunistic, burly skillmonkey" go heavy on rogue. Get the unchained variant if you can; it's a direct (and needed) upgrade to the base rogue that doesn't shuffle things around too much, so you should be familiar with it overall. After that, just play a thug, rather than a thief. They're both rogues, but one is burly, meant for intimidation, while the other is meant for stealth and staying out of sight.

>>49223480
>I'd definitely like to give Gun Witch a try myself, but it seems a little unfair to do a Gunslinger's job better overall.

I mean, maybe if the gunslinger did its job well that would be a fair concern. But it really doesn't.

>>49223616
>Expanding into something that requires rebalancing just to provide a decent challenge makes things difficult.

So...expanding into wizards and clerics?

PoW and DSP content in general has far tighter internal balance than anything from 1pp

>>49223725
It's probably based on my groups poor attempt (or rather, my horribly handled attempt) to try and use PoW.

As far as we can tell, encounters would have to be redone to account for martial players being able to sweep through enemies much easier than before.

If there are any misconceptions, it'd be great if it could be explained to us (or at least me).

>>49223775
But martial characters can already fairly easily sweep through encounters now.

>>49223775
To clarify, PoW gives parties an overall higher power level, at least how we interpret it.

>>49223796
Higher power floor, certainly: it's very hard to mess up an initiator and become useless. And the difference shows the most at low levels when martial characters have no real ability to do anything at all.

>>49223775
>Be druid
>Pick whatever non shitty Animal Companion
>Do way better than martial + action economy
>Somehow nobody retools shit in the encounters
>Be PoW class
>Perform slightly below Druid
>"Oh shit nigga, now I have to spend day and night redoing all encounters"
I don't understand this, like at all

>>49223838
Yea I don't get how groups can't handle this sudden gigantic power spike either.

>>49223894
I can kind of see it, because they're not comparing the initiator to the wizard or the druid. Their comparing it to things like Gunslinger and Fighter.

By doing so they're missing the point, but I remember doing the same thing when I first used Tome of Battle.

>>49223619

Oh, nifty. I remember looking at unchained stuff and thinking it was 3pp stuff. Might throw in some Fighter for feats and heavy armor.

As far as multiclassing goes, yeah. My paladin died once in two years, and only because after running through three other obvious death traps, the GM threw a CR 18 demon (plus mooks) against my level 11 pally/hellknight and an 11 wizard. We won the fight, but I did get my head cut off by a crit. After that I started watering him down with Hellknight.

Assuming I go with Unchained Rogue, what are some interesting feats to take? I ask because my phone can barely load the SRD's feat page.

>>49223894
What fucking power spike? if everybody is a cleric, druid, witch, wizard or other T1-T2 nobody fucking bats an eye, but the moment a Fighter becomes T3 woah, we have to change everything!

>>49223928
>le tiers argument

>>49223928
I'll never fucking understand this caster boogeyman you people have created, as if every single fucking wizard or whatever the fuck you play with is going to delete encounters with zero regard for the rest of the party and the GM.

>>49223838
Obviously casters outperform PoW characters in other ways, but can a druid actually out-DAMAGE(because that's obviously what people are talking about when they say that PoW is overpowered or disruptive) a PoW character built to be a damage dealer at different optimization levels?

>>49223997
I'll never fucking understand this initiator boogeyman you people have created, as if every single fucking warden or whatever the fuck you play with is going to delete encounters with zero regard for the rest of the party and the GM

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> Savage Technologist/Drunken Brute 2
> Buccaneer (Gunslinger) 2
> Picaroon 3

Is it efficient? God no. But I need at least those first two at 2 so I can get grit/rage from booze, which is the whole reason I'm making this fellow. The reason I've got 3 levels in Picaroon is for Two Weapon Finesse as well as getting back Quick Clear (which the Buccaneer decided to switch out for Sea Legs). Where should I go from here though? Probably 2 levels in Barbarian for Dex-to-damage on my gun while raging, but then what? Picaroon for bonus feats? Barbarian for more Rage Powers? Buccaneer for...I don't know, the familiar and super-late Gun training?

Right now I'm just level 5, so I was thinking Barb 2/Gun 2/Swash 1 for now. Just trying to map shit out.

>>49224064
Really nice argument there, you just copy pasted my post. That took you 5 minutes to come up with? I'm genuinely impressed.

>>49224064
I'll never fucking understand this martial boogeyman you people have created, as if every single fucking slayer or whatever the fuck you play with is going to delete encounters with zero regard for the rest of the party and the GM.

>>49223997
Encounter: apparently bottomless pit. Wizard casts feather fall. Encounter: A hard to climb cliff face. Wizard casts fly(or levitate or spider climb or...) and he(or whoever he cast the spell on) drops a rope to the rest of the party. Encounter: a suspicious town guard. Wizard casts charm person. And so on and so on. Combat encounters(especially the better designed ones) are less susceptible to this, but aside from combat, if the wizard prepared anything other than damage dealing evocation spells, there's a good chance that he will be able to solve many encounters that might otherwise be challenging with a single spell.

>>49223996
Buildposter pls go and stay go

>>49224129
Provided the caster prepared feather fall, fly, levitate, spider climb, charm person, etc. and prepared the exact amount he would need during the day.

>>49224335
As opposed to the fighter, who can just stick his head between his legs and kiss his own ass goodbye?

>>49224335
I said "there's a good chance that he will be able to solve many encounters" not "he will always be able to solve all encounters."

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>>49223480
>>49223616

While I don't agree 100% on this, I've been giving it some more thought, and made some changes to the gun witch. In particular, I'm taking away their full BAB with guns, and giving some some expanded options for doing stuff with their bullets. Also it turns out that comparisons to the Desperado Warlord were bad since maneuvers blow its combat out of the water. Even so, though, Hopefully this should bring it down a bit compared to dedicated full attacking gun experts, but also give it some utility in combat to counteract that.

>tl;dr less damage, more stuff tied to their core mechanic (metamagic)

Update to come shortly.

>>49221117
You can change your arcane bond item with a 200gp ritual. I accidentally left that paragraph off.

>>49224455
Climb, Intimidate/Bluff, or just tanking the 20d6 falling damage.

Has anyone used the Unchained rules that remove iterative attacks? How did they work out?

>>49224664
>How did they work out?

Like garbage, but then again, everything in that campaign was garbage so maybe that's just my memory blurring it all together.

>>49224654
>Fighter
>Skills

>>49224664
You can do more damage if you beat AC by enough, but if you miss at all then you have no more chances. Also prevents you from splitting attacks up against mooks you could kill in one hit anyway, limiting the fighter to one kill per round while the casters can keep Mass Dominating or chucking Fireballs.

>>49224455
>>49224129
It's not like skills exist or something.
Wait...

>>49225044
Not for a fighter at least, no.

>>49223997
It's not that wizards always delete encounters, It's more that they have many avenues to solve encounters through more than damage and weak skills.

>>49225044
A third level wizard can defeat any encounter involving climbing with 100% success rate if he has Levitate prepared: if the encounter involves descending a wall, he can do it at first level with Feather Fall. A third level fighter with maxed climb might have 55% success rate vs. a wall with climb DC of 20, assuming he takes off his armor. Skills can beat encounters like that. Having the right spells trivializes them. And that's at low levels: At higher levels, spells can trivialize encounters or problems that simply can't be solved with a skill check, no matter how high your bonus is.

I have my first Pathfinder game tonight since like high school

What should I build

>>49225225
What type of character do you want to play?

>>49225236
My last character was a Nuke Wizard iirc, that was fun. I've also played a Magus before that I enjoyed.

>>49225225
3pp allowed? What books are being used? What kind of style are you used to? Wizard for general effectiveness. If you want to be a martial, Bloodrager.

>>49225225
What's allowed? what are the others going to play? which level are you going to play? what's the powerlevel expected for this game?

Oracle1 (lame)/Barbarian X Ragebreed with Beast Totem, make 6 natural attacks at 5th level

>>49225188
Thats assuming a wizard has levitate prepared 100% of the time, which he probably wont have.
He probably has it maybe 10-20% of the time, assuming a third level wizard which would probably not waste slots on that specific of a spell.

>>49225282
>>49225287
Not sure yet honestly, I got the text earlier today. It's either going to be Anything Goes or just core races and classes, I'm not sure yet.

>>49225297

What are empty spell slots used for for $500, Alex.

>>49225044
>2+int skills per level
>obligatory point in Perception
>Int is a dump stat, since you need Will for your pitiable saves on top of your Physical stats
Skills only matter for a Fighter if you're Human, are mono-classed, and select Skill Points both times you get a level

Compare to the Inquisitor, who gets 6+Int skill points, abilities that complement and synergize with skills, and combined with Judgement (Or Studied Target if going SancSlay) and Bane, you can handle most combat damage.

And thats not including utility and buffs from being a 6th level caster.

>>49225297
>Wizard
>not making the most out of his free Scribe Scroll feat

>>49225329
Glitterdust, web and rope trick probably.
>>49225345
>not making the most out of his free Scribe Scroll feat
Fair point.

>>49225297
It also assumes that the fighter has maxed climb of all skills. With 2+int skill points, he almost certainly has better choices.

>>49225388
you only need one point for a nice +7 or +8 bonus

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>>49224092
Bump.

>>49225413
With a score like that you can't even consistently climb a dungeon wall
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/climb

>>49224521
So the arcane bonded gun can be any gun as long as you bond with it, but you start play with a battered gun like a gunslinger?

Makes sense, like the Spellslinger Wizard Archetype.

'preciate the response by the way.

I guess my last nitpick would be the
>free action with no AoO reloads
iirc you're essentially loading the weapon with cartridges made of magic, so it sounds a bit like loading with a paper cartridge (or metal for advanced)
I personally think it sounds more like it should follow the cartridge versus powder+bullet reload time reduction rather than straight up free action reloads. Of course, with Rapid Reload it can reduce it to a free action if it's a 2-handed firearm.

>>49225413
+8 bonus on a skill where the DC can often be 20 or higher and you can't take 20? Not that great of a deal.

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>tfw someone actually decides to playtest and run your homebrews, because they think they'll be cool
>tfw they promised to tell me how well it handled afterwards
I'm in a good mood anons, so share with me the times you're party made homebrew content and had fun with it.

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>>49225490
Never

>>49225490
I made a homebrew discipline that's pretty fun to play around with, and I was testing it out in a game.

Game's dead now unfortunately, but at least I learned a bit more about how the discipline handles in a real game.

>>49225487
If you roll twice you're likely to get it.
It's not like you can only climb a wall once

>>49224092
I'd say going the Barbarian Route for the rest of your levels may be the better idea, though the idea of getting some more Gunslinger levels to grab a Sage or Valet Familiar does tickle me a tad.

>>49225537
>I made a homebrew discipline
Tell me more, I make a lot PoW homebrew, so that sounds interesting to me.

>>49225540
Of course if you have to roll multiple times to go up you're increasingly likely to not make it either.

>>49225540
Sure, except there's a good chance that you need to make multiple successful checks to get up, and failing by 5 or more means that you fall, possibly take damage and have to start over.

>>49225557
If you run into 20ft walls you have to climb relatively often, buy slippers of climbing, it only costs 2.4k

>>49225572
Almost guaranteed. You need to make a check to go 1/4 your speed up the wall. Since speed rounds down you're only going to be moving 5 feet per check.

>>49225582
So something the fighter still can't feasibly do without magic. Also if they're the slippers of spider climbing they cost 4.8k, 2.4k to craft.

>>49225225

Really, what sort of character (theme-wise) do you want to play and what do you want him/her to do?

I mean, I may have the biggest gaming boner for a pseudo-civilized Varagia... oops, Ulfen Guard barbarian, but maybe that does not float your boat :) .

>>49225582
At low levels, that's a significant chunk of your wealth. By mid-levels, you(or at least someone in the party) should have access to flight, making them fairly useless.

>>49225605
Wizardry stuff mostly. I've played a really advanced Necromancer that specialized in CC spells and Drain X spells, I'm thinking about a CN Wizard bent on awakening some slumbering horror, a la MTG Eldrazi. Or maybe just Allahu Akbar wizardry if there's no opportunity for that.

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>>49225542
Considering how much the character drinks, Spirit Totem or a Figment Familiar seem like solid choices.

>>49225582
Magic items, which any character including the casters, can access are not a good argument point for talking about the feasibility of a class, since its effectively a null bonus across the board and defeats the purpose of judging a class on its own merits.

Plus, taxing a character's wealth to make him competent at what most all the other classes can already achieve without as much material aid is poor design as well, especially since Fighters also require a greater amount of resource and money allocation for their magical arms and armor and rely on them heavily already.

>>49225490
My DM is letting me use my janky psionic Summoner archetype.

It needs work. But I'm still having a good time with it

>>49225688
>janky psionic Summoner archetype.
You mean a Hounforge?

>>49225556
It's a Street Fighter-based discipline, although it's intended to be less "do big moves from SF" and more "play SF in your tabletop RPG".

I can link if you want to take a look and/or give feedback, but the last time I posted it was followed by a lot of meh.

>>49225707
The entire point was that putting it in climb is unreliable. You'll only succeed, with a +9 bonus, 45% of the time for every five feet you ascend.

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>>49225471
>So the arcane bonded gun can be any gun as long as you bond with it, but you start play with a battered gun like a gunslinger?

Correct.

>Reloading
Yeah, I've rolled it back a bit. Now does require the Rapid Reload tax that everyone has, and is a move action to reload otherwise.

>>49225703
>my
I don't think so.

>>49225678
>>49225601
The point is, at the point where you cant buy stuff like that (and climbing is as such a problem) the wizard can't reliably cast levitate either way.

Reasonably speaking, are there any spells in the Druid or Witch spell lists to justify taking Expanded Spell Kenning as a Skald?

Because I haven't actually taken Weapon Focus: Greataxe and it's the only feat in the progression that I can see as worth trading out

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Playtest updates

>Symbiotic Slayer's mechanics overhauled

So now, the symbiotic slayer's symbiote takes damage for the vigilante, and they have a mechanic where the symbiote can basically use the vigilante's HP as their own (life link from the eidolon).

This effectively gives the character 50% more hit points, since a familiar has half the hit points of its owner.

I don't want them to have 50% extra hit points, so I have two possible solutions, one of which I've included in the doc

>Solution 1: The symbiote gains a vulnerability to an energy type of the vigilante's choice, and the vigilante gains this vulnerability while the symbiote is manifested.

>Solution 2: Life link is a 2 to 1 hp exchange rather than a 1 to 1 hp exchange.

Also note there's a few talents and feats to help mitigate the vulnerability. I think I like the weakness more, if only because it helps fit the source material better, but I'd love to get some thoughts on this.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hrk1hl8uXVHazaiPOCvWsFUHX3PB6fQVd13tzguJTgE/edit#bookmark=id.l0rqw4h91jv0

>>49225760
>scribe scroll

>>49225645
Elder Mythos Scholar from Horror Adventures?

>>49218459
What other ones exist?

>>49225793
If it's available. Like I said, this is either going to be Core Class or Bust or Anything Goes and I won't know until I show up

>>49225788
Which costs 300gp per scroll.
At the level where you reliably have costly scrolls on you, you can afford boots.

>>49225863
Not finding out till later kinda means you need to build core only. You could build two characters, one for the core only and one if anything is cool.

>>49225908
>300 GP
More like 150 GP market price, 75 if you have scrible scroll

>>49225908
The fuck are you getting 300gp for a scroll of levitate?

>>49225760
>wizard can't reliably cast levitate either way.
Its a 2nd level spell hombre, its not hard to get, and so is Spider Climb.

For 1st level you can instead use either Summon Monster or Animate Rope to get a knotted rope to the top, Enlarge Person to make it easier, and others like Handy Grapnel, Jump, Expeditious Retreat, Lighten Object, creative use of Hydraulic Push, or just get your familiar to fly up a rope or something.

The only real choices and alternatives for the Fighter are either dedicate everything to climb, or get lucky with throwing his grappling hook if he's carrying one, which is stuff literally ALL THE OTHER CLASSES can do.

>>49218459
So you get two attacks at -2 then a Nodachi attack at normal attack bonus? That's... quite a bit. What happens when you get iteratives? Also, getting a crit range of 12-20 is pretty significant.

>>49225784
Why does the Mercurial Duelist get Vital Strike, except bad vital strike, and it can't add anything to boost vital strike? Vital Strike is bad. It is a bad feat.

>>49225645

I think a summoner (possibly pre-unchained) can work reasonably well with that. I think a sorcerer or even an oracle (flavorwise) can be a good match.

I would say go for a sorcerer in core, non-unchained summoner if not. I actually like the flavor of the unchained summoner for the most part, but their eidolon rules do not cover eldritch horrors yet (unless the new horror books have introduced the type). Dark Tapestry/occult or even heaven are imo fitting mysteries for an oracle.

>>49225726
Well post it and at the worst I'll give you a metric shit-ton of meh.

>>49225556
>I make a lot PoW homebrew
Any examples?

>>49225703
TL;DR it swaps the Eidolon out for an Astral Warrior as per the Ectopic Artisan, Summon Monster out for Astral Construct, and spells for a VERY tiny manifesting list.

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>>49226024
I'm not sure why it's bad, and the talents are meant to help it out, as well as the way of the blade. I could actually see integrating Iron Grip into the base class though to help buff it.

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>>49226258
So literally just a Summoner, but Psionic instead of arcane.

>>49226323
It's bad because Vital Strike is just +dice. It doesn't multiply on crits, it doesn't make any bonuses you get more effective, it doesn't multiply PA. You get bonuses? Lol, no you don't, because anyone with iteratives just gets so much more than you. If you're gonna make it get Vital Strike, then at least bake Mythic Vital Strike into the class natively, and don't lock it out of actually improving it's vital strike.

>>49225688
Dread has an archetype where it gets an Eidolon, by the way.

>>49226153
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T6SL20wo1p98czHNie7QPvyMk1r9VeRyxmEnAOk0xmY/edit#

Comments are also enabled.

>>49226258
Elsabel?

>>49226414
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/dread/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/nightmare-constructor

It's usually not suggested, as there are some dead class features.

>>49226412
Accuracy has to be taken into account here as well, but I get what you're saying. They now get iron grip for free as they progress, so now they're dealing more damage with the base hit. Also I'm not giving mythic vital strike, I've seen what that can do, and I'm not having that much blood on my hands. Plus they already get 2 handed exchange on power attack with a full BAB effectively, so I think the damage curve should be about fair here, since it's a trade off of accuracy vs. power.

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So my buddies being who they are, we've decided to challenge ourselves and are all gonna go with shit tier poorly optimized class builds (Samurai, Str Rogue, vanilla Monk, etc). Our DM, feeling pity for us and not realizing this is fun for us, has given us an ultimatum. We either do this with Epic point buy, or we get a free archetype (as in, we get that archetype along with our regular skills), or we variant multiclass. Any fun suggestions for this? I'm intending to be as poorly built a Samurai as possible with whatever this guy ends up giving me.

>>49226462
Accuracy doesn't matter if your hits don't do damage. An enemy at 1 HP is the same effectiveness as 1,000,000 HP.

>>49226614
All the damage in the world doesn't matter if your attacks can't hit.

See: Kineticists using physical blasts.
Not even the best damage but still

>>49226614
...no one's arguing that. But seeing as these hits often carry a rider effect, accuracy is key in controlling the flow of battle so you can use said effects.

That being said, adding a new way of the blade that'll let you deal damage as a warpriest of your level. Anima blade with this way of the blade instead keeps the free enhancement on it, making it a nice cheap weapon.

>>49225490
I've only heard of my homebrew being used twice. Once was just a flat port of Eldritch Archer Magi to Spheres, and the other is me using it myself, and the game doesn't exactly lend itself well to testing.

>>49226452
Of course! How many OTHER medicore psionic summoner archetypes could there be?

Going to be playing a martial campaign...

3.5 and no tome of battle because GM doesn't want to bother reading the book

>>49226721
Just keep in mind mythic options

>>49226734
Synth summoner?

>>49226738
The way I see it, I figure even odds between him giving us Mythic or giving us quadstalt Avaunt Guard so we have Stands

>>49226734
>no tome of battle because GM doesn't want to bother reading the book
Leave that shitty group

>>49226242
I'm the guy who made Blood Reaver, Lord of the Lash, Seneschal, Platinum Gestalt, Demolitions Expert, Eagle Eye Sniper, and War Weaver

>>49226858
Platinum Gestalt?

>>49226688
I just want to check, but if you use that one Ribbon item to count a 2h as a 1h, you can still use it with the Mercurial, right?

>>49226871
Initiating Summoner, still in initial testing.
Can link the initial draft once I get home if you want.

The name is because I'm a hack who could think of a better one

>>49226500
If 3pp is on the table, you could play a Blind Swordsman by DDS.
http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/blind-swordsman

>>49226902
You could, but it couldn't be your ancestral weapon, as it has to be a weapon with which you could normally make an iaijutsu slash. If you're willing to use a different weapon though, as long as it's a slashing weapon, I suppose it would work fine.

Also new way of the blade
>Powerful Duelist: The mercurial duelist gains Weapon Focus for their ancestral weapon as a bonus feat, and whenever the mercurial duelist hits with their ancestral weapon, they can choose to have it deal damage as thought it was a warpriestACG’s sacred weapon, treating their mercurial duelist level as their effective warpriestACG level.

And new talent
>Efficient Grip (Ex) The mercurial duelist is treated as one size larger when determining how much damage they deal when making melee attacks.

>>49218097
A bit late to the ballgame here but...
That makes no sense. Nature is cruel. I watched a webm of a baboon tearing apart a young deer by the hind legs, ripping it apart while it was still alive and crying out while the baboon ate it.

Humans don't have more of a capacity for cruelty than nature.

>>49225729
Are you ever going to show archetypes that also gain Nova Spell as an ability, or perhaps additional archetypes for the Savant that grant them different spell-lists?

>>49226958
That's kinda unfortunate. I like the idea of a dude with a nodachi doing this.

>>49226958
Actually, I was wrong, the iaijutsu slash can only be made with an appropriately sized weapon, and reading over effortless lace, it doesn't change the weapon's effective size, it reduces penalties, so no, you couldn't use lace.

Although I did actually want to include 2 handers/spears in this somewhere, so give me a bit and I'll write up a talent for it.

>>49226935

shit, this looks great, ill ask him tomorrow when he's off work.

>>49227039
New talent
>Massive Blade (Ex) The mercurial duelist gains proficiency in all two-handed slashing weapons and can use a two-handed slashing weapon to make iaijutsu slashes, although doing so still only requires them to have one free hand to wield it. When this talent is selected, the mercurial duelist can change their ancestral weapon to a two-handed slashing weapon of their choice, causing it to instantly transform into the chosen weapon.

>>49226734
Don't play.

>>49226448
Road Rumble is kind of busted - how do we define "attack?" If you use it on a Wizard, do they have to run over and hit you with their staff? At the least it's a great way to shut down any kind of Battlefield Control caster by ensuring that they have to target you with their spells (so no buffing allies or anything else). So, probably a bit strong for a level 1 manuever, especially when it's a basic Intimidate check which is easy as hell to push high.

I notice a lot of your maneuvers have increasing DC's (10 + 1/2 level + modifier). Most maneuvers typically don't have the DC increase it's usually a straight number, like 11 + modifier. This means lower end maneuvers start to be a bit less useful as you level up, whereas with your style the maneuvers level with your character. This ends up making your Style far stronger than any other published style.

It seems a little easy to build up high combo quickly, and then burn that combo to take multiple free attacks in a single round. I would probably want to limit the style to only gaining 1 combo point per maneuver and then change boosts to add combo points.

Over all, looks pretty good for homebrew.

>>49226858
Can you repost link to all of them?

When replacing a maneuver at the even level of a full initiator class, does the replaced maneuver still count towards meeting prerequisites of the new maneuver?

i.e. can I replace dimensional strike with flicker strike at warlord level 8 without other veiled moon maneuvers/stances?

>>49227300
No, because order of leveling up means you can't replace prerequisites for things you acquire at that level.

>>49227220
Sure, but It'll take a while to grab them all.
Actually, I'mma just make a ToC document with all the links on it. give me a sec

>>49226958
>new way of the blade
>it doesn't stack with finesse or spiritual duelist
>no word on being able to take any of it as talents

>>49227217
>Road Rumble is kind of busted - how do we define "attack?"
I assume you're talking about Challenger's approach. I'll work on tightening up the wording a bit.

>I notice a lot of your maneuvers have increasing DC's (10 + 1/2 level + modifier).
Can you point them out for me? The only one I remember and can see on a return look is the Stunning Strikes boost which intentionally gets that as an interaction with Stunning Fist.

>It seems a little easy to build up high combo quickly, and then burn that combo to take multiple free attacks in a single round. I would probably want to limit the style to only gaining 1 combo point per maneuver and then change boosts to add combo points.
The generation method has gone through a few changes. Initially it was 1 per hit (which makes multi-hit maneuvers way stronger than normal ones), then it got changed to 1 per maneuver (which made generation really slow without using the level 1 moves and de-incentivizes taking higher level maneuvers), and currently it's 1/2 maneuver level. That does make it a bit fast, but at the same time it only lasts for at most one round.

Thanks for the feedback though, it's always good to hear something.

>>49216268
I need character building help, I don't like faggy 3pp shit though.

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>>49227956
>I don't like faggy 3pp shit though.
>doesn't tell us what type of character he needs help building at all
Either lazy, retard, or baiting.
Just in case its the latter, here's your (You)

>>49227849
New talent
>Additional Way of the Blade (Ex) The mercurial duelist gains an ability from way of the blade. A mercurial duelist must be 4th level or higher to select this talent.

You can't go all 3 ways of the blade, but I figure this is for people going finesse or spiritual who want powerful too.

>>49221847
Isn't there like a primary natural weapon while the secondary natural weapons take a penalty to hit?

>>49227910
Just got back from Taco Bell. I notice you've changed a few things so give me a few minutes to look it all over again.

>>49222469
It's kind of the GM's job to decide what gets and what doesn't. Allowing any and everything would be fucking stupid.

>>49228024
Changing as you eat. What did you get?

>>49227002
That's probably the most dangerous/riskiest part. The Spellburst is very very limited to compensate for the Nova ability...

>>49225729
The witch does NOT currently have the ability to bond with any gun.
>Her bonded item may be either a blunderbuss, musket, or pistol.

>Mage Piercing Rounds
Consider adding an ability to punch through a counter or smash-from-the-air in some way - even at some loss in power. Right now (and with the loss of full BAB also) someone could literally stand there and do nothing more than spend an AoO to negate even a natural 20 and there's not a damn thing you can do about it - in fact they often have more AoOs than you have shots per round for this.

Well, that's not so much a request for gunwitches as it is for all ranged characters in general.... I'd gladly exchange 1/2 my fucking HP to get even one shot through to some asshole that's invulnerable by taking two fucking feats.

>>49222718
>Ever getting amulet of mighty fists on a Monk

You know Monk's specifically can enhance their unarmed strikes like manufactured and natural weapons right? Why waste all that gold on an overpriced piece of shit and not potions of greater magic weapon/fang, align weapon, versatile weapon, vine strike, lead blades, etc?

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>>49228015
The main issue was that it held something that a Vital Striker DESPERATELY NEEDS (scaling weapon dice) hostage behind the two fun things the class had, and is simultaneously holding Anima Blade's entire gimmick at gunpoint. That does alleviate the problem, I guess. Still less talent taxing than it used to have, IMO.

>mfw Powerful Grip + Efficient Grip + Impact weapon

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>>49228092
>Bluh, this Fighter ability is too strong!

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>Look at party member's sheet
>He's a Level 7 spell Cleric
>With a +2 Light Mace of Spell Storing

>>49224129
Because the Wizard always has the spell he needs, and is never counter spelled, interrupted while casting, or in anyway contended from casting a spell.

>>49228134
Lemme put it this way.
If there was an ability that allowed gunslingers to use combat reflexes to negate incoming melee attacks with their little dex scores...

It is not okay for a wizard to be allowed to negate entire fucking classes with a single spell, that we all agree on. But neither is it okay to negate "all things not melee" either.

>>49228126
To be fair, I might just get rid of anima blade (having it include things from a different book is troublesome. I was possibly thinking of including the scaling dice as a class feature without needing way of the blade, gotten at 5th level.

I will admit that scaling dice do make the world go round, so that'll be something I consider. Remember, it's things like this which is what make a playtest important.

>>49228191
most of those things either buttfuck the fighter just as equally, require another wizard to actively cause, or just expect massive incompetance on the part of the person playing as a wizard.

>>49225997
Higher caster level?

>>49226734
Not bad if he's got Complete Warrior, otherwise fuck that shit.

and FUCK POW

>>49228263
Show us on the doll where the Warder touched you.

>>49226992
You just precieve it as cruel, nature-wise the baboon is hungry and above the deer on the food chain. That's it.

>>49226734
Invite a couple friends to play, and then never show up

>>49228018
Yes. There's a list of primary and secondary on the pfsrd. 1 attack will be primary, the rest will be secondary. I believe primary gets full strength and no penalty while secondary gets half strength and a -5

>>49228010
>Actually falling for this

>>49228288
You mean Warlord, Mystic and/or Zealot.

>>49228288
Your mom is a Warder?

>>49228122
I dunno, maybe because those are shitty solutions at low level that you can't confidently have access to at all times? It'd be weird to give my monk player 40 potions of Greater Magic Weapon instead of an amulet and also force him to decide when to use them since they'll only last 5 hours apiece (NOT long enough that you can chug one in the morning and be confident it will last you through all your encounters that day). By the time the party is a high enough level that the mage (assuming the party has one) can drop GMW on the monk and have it actually last all day, the party's rolling in so much cash that you can soak up the cost of one... Not to mention you're clearly not paying attention to the post you're responding to, where he's asking about cutting the price of an amulet down to the same as a magic weapon, and also not to mention that potions of weapon-enhancing spells will cut the monk out of accessing most of the special weapon properties he might want.

>>49228306
No, natural weapons are only Secondary if they're specifically stated to be, OR if you're using a manufactured weapon in the same full attack.

>>49228224
Because fighters cast spells, can't fight without a wizard, and the GM is dosen't know how to build encounters

>>49228194
If your goal is to make a class all about Vital Strike, it's best to include all the things that would actually make Vital Strike functional. You've already made an archetype based around it that I really want to use, so I'd say you're almost there.

>>49228194
Sounds like good ideas. Make it scale innately, since FUCK magic christmastree bullshit.

>>49228357
Ah, thanks for that. My bad.

Here's your reminder from Horror Adventures that aligned spells are supposed to change your alignment very quickly.

>The GM decides whether the character’s alignment changes, but typically casting two evil spells is enough to turn a good creature nongood, and three or more evils spells move the caster from nongood to evil.
>Though this advice talks about evil spells, it also applies to spells with other alignment descriptors.

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>>49228401
>>49228403
Mercurial duelist update

>Way of the blade is just finesse/spiritual
>Powerful duelist moved to 5th level
>Additional way of the blade deleted
>Anima blade on chopping block

Holding off the scaling damage until this point isn't a big deal, it's 1d8 for a while, so unless they take efficient grip to boost their size, the best weapons they can wield (katana mostly) are still going to be around the same damage, and it buffs the rapier/scimitar crowd.

I think that being treated as a size larger should still be a talent, but aside from that, everything that's needed to make it work is innately included now. The bonus to strength to damage, scaling damage dice, and increased accuracy should make this a very viable vital strike themed archetype.

>>49228350
You're seriously complaining about having to manage hour long buffs? That's pretty pathetic and lazy of you, but even then I would say get off your ass and make up an item for him before using a clearly overpriced item then. Even permanency is a better investment.

Also, I just advised him to do something better for the monk player. He's no more inclined to respond or consider my post no more than you are. Sorry I hurt your feelings by insulting your favorite piece of shit item.

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>>49228376
>Because fighters cast spells, can't fight without a wizard
No, but past lvl 5 they become completely reliant on Magic arms, armor, and other items, and most methods of "countering" magic tend to also either fuck over the magical gear they rely on, or its stuff like Grapples and the like, which fighters are only slightly better at dealing with,

>and the GM is dosen't know how to build encounters
Or it could be that the GM is being forced to deal with a faulty class balance and design system.
If the GM has to make alterations to EXPLICITLY not make a class useless, or to reign in a major problem class, and has to do so consistently or maybe even make homerules to counter the problems, its a bad and poorly built system, which is not the fault of the GM, but rather the fault of the game designers

Why is it so hard for you Paidrones to get this?

>>49228088
Actually what you have there looks pretty decent all around. There were a couple of bumps but it looks like you've mostly smoothed them out.

Demon's Rage - how does this work? Explain it to me like I am 3 years old. It says uou get to make 7 strikes. Does that mean I could make 7 Heavy Strikes and then for each Heavy Strike make a maximum of 6 attacks during that strike for a total of 42 attacks? (7 heavy strikes composed of 6 attacks each)? That is problematic, but that's how I'm reading the power.

Strike Chainer is a bit worrisome, if only because anything that lets you essentially double your actions per round is worrisome. Being able to activate two strikes is pretty damn strong. I would probably change it slightly - add a permanent, "always on" effect to Strike Chainer (bonus to AC, Saves, Attack, Damage, Movement, some combination) and then give the player the option of also getting a second strike, but it takes a number of combo points equal to the level of the strike they want to use. This means it's not spammable, but it interacts decently with your combo system.

You use a level 6 strike and then combo that into a level 3 strike (or higher if you used to a boost to increase your combo rating). The idea has a lot of cool possibilities, but I'm a little weary of it as is (I admit though that I lean more towards the conservative side to avoid things being too strong when I try and judge powers).

>>49228458
Might want to make the ranged slash have better range, and make sure it fully counts as melee.

>>49228521
>make up an item for him before using a clearly overpriced item then

He's making one for himself, which is why I don't see why you're advising him to use an inferior collection of potions. He's talking about slashing the price of an AoMFs to the same value as a regular magic weapon, at which point it's just as good a deal. Better than a pile of potions, at least.

>>49228088
Continuing from >>49228540

For Hyper Combo, I would probably go through each style and pick one or two moves from each style and then list those moves as ones that you take when you activate Hyper Combo, not necessarily because it's broken, but I know players in my games would say, "Wait! Give me a few minutes to find which move I want to use."

One of the nice things about fan creations like this is that you don't have to worry about the dreaded Count of Words so you can have powers get a tad longer or wordier than if you were writing this for publication.

Also, Crouching Jab is fucking hilarious. I missed that the first time and giggled so hard I got half a pack of diablo sauce up my nose.

I have a player who might want to try this out and I'd be willing to let him give it a shot. If he does and we mess around with it, I'll give you some more actual play-test feedback if you're still interested.

>>49228541
Buffed to 30, 60, 120, but I want to keep it at least somewhat close to start.

What do you mean as count fully for melee?

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>>49227002
>Nova Spell for other casters
No, it's unique to the spellburst savant, in particular because I'm keeping a close rein on it thanks to free metamagic being /really damn strong/.

>Different spell lists
The closest you'll get is Magpie Mage and Extracurricular Study. The fluff on the spellburst savant is distinctly arcane; in order to let them pull from another 9-level caster's list, I'd need to rewrite it (and its mechanics, because mechanics are a huge part of fluff) to the point that it would be a new class.

>>49228092
>Arcane Bond
Whoops. That was not intended. It was meant to be "start with for free, but otherwise any guns." I've amended the wording

>Smash from the Air and counters
Good idea. I've made Persistent Spell do that if you put it on with Shooting Star Cartridges. Definitely limited and costly, but doable.

>>49228540
>Demon's Rage - how does this work?
1) Move up to land speed, make touch attack, pay 7 combo (optional)
2) If successful, you make 7 attacks as listed
>These attacks... do not allow you to activate maneuvers following their use.
3) If you paid combo, you can activate a maneuver which will act as if you had used the maneuver normally (as in allowing you to chain Heavy Strikes)

>Strike Chainer
I get what you're saying, I'll have to look at it again and figure out what I can do with it.

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>>49228313

>>49228569
>Hyper Combo
That's honestly a lot of stuff to sift through, and I intended to keep it fairly system-agnostic to allow for other homebrew disciplines to work with it. The other hope is that most players won't have a build with 21 maneuvers readied simultaneously.

Also, I would absolutely love if you could do some player feedback. Feel free to drop comments in the doc as you spot things that need to be changed or post here, I don't have enough of a life to go other places.

>>49228538
>It's another contrarian who won't just play something else image.

>No, but past lvl 5 they become completely reliant on Magic arms, armor, and other items, and most methods of "countering" magic tend to also either fuck over the magical gear they rely on, or its stuff like Grapples and the like, which fighters are only slightly better at dealing with.

You can't actually counter-spell/interrupt someone from using a magic arm/armor/item though. (Could dispel their effects though that could also apply to the wizard who also rely on magical gear or magic)

>Or it could be that the GM is being forced to deal with a faulty class balance and design system.
I can't help but feel "Game Master" would imply that, like I wouldn't agree to be a "Toilet Master" if I didn't want to deal with toilets.

>If the GM has to make alterations to EXPLICITLY not make a class useless, or to reign in a major problem class, and has to do so consistently or maybe even make homerules to counter the problems, its a bad and poorly built system, which is not the fault of the GM, but rather the fault of the game designers
Actually it implies the GM doesn't understand how the system is intended to work. He also doesn't understand that Game Designer is one of his duties, Pazio just offers a template but every table plays the same game differently.
(With different houserules, supplements, 3pp, etc.) That said building an encounter to challenge the different skill-sets of a party consisting of a Wizard and a Fighter is as simple as throwing another Wizard and Fighter at them. Considering how the players play them/build them/etc.

>>49228636
Just wondering, for bonded items in general does a weapon that fits the description qualify if it's created by a class ability?

Like a Warsoul's generated firearm, or a spheres armorist, etc.

I ask for character creation reasons!

>>49228766
While those sorts of weapons /do/ they run into the issue of you making a new version each time.

"If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item."

If you spent 8 hours with your mind blade out performing the ritual, it'd work, but then the moment you lost you mind blade you'd lose the arcane bond.

You don't need to use your arcane bond gun to use the gun witch's abilities, though. The class works on /all/ guns; it just gives you a battered one for free.

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>>49228636
I got a question on the Gun Witch's reloading. As I understand it, if you use your nova spell ability for the round you reload as a free action. If you don't use the nova it takes a move action to reload or a free action if you have rapid reload. Is this correct? If so there doesn't seem to be any reason to not use your nova ability to reload as a free action.

>>49228636
>Catastrophic is not in the bullet list

DON'T FORGET YOUR OWN DAMN WORKS!

>>49228458
Noice.

I still have no idea what Swift Defence is supposed to be, referenced in Spiritual Duelist, but the fact that it's implied to be Cha-to-AC gets me hype AF.

>>49228858
It's meant to not load when you nova. Relic wording from the first version. I'm fixing that now.

>>49228968
Whoops.

>>49228973
"Thundering Spell (+1): Once per round, when the
gun witch hits with a bullet that deals cold damage,
can cause the target to become deafened for 1
round."

Shouldn't it trigger on "sonic" damage?

>>49228567
And in my opinion he was wasting his time with a mistake. It's a lot easier to just houserule the monk's unarmed strike to be enchant-able like a regular weapons. Even then it's hardly a deal since they can already do this sans the weapon abilities. Most of which replicatable by spells.

Personally I just find the player better off reward wise with those potions that offer a variety of boons like by passing DR, increasing reach, etc., instead of paying more gold than he should for +x to hit and damage.

>>49229007
Yes.

>>49228999
It's from the first book in the series, it gives you the brawler's AC bonus class feature. Really, it should have always been Cha to AC rather than Wisdom to AC, but with genius vigilante, you could also get Intelligence to AC, which is always fun.

Had to redo the math on the sample character I had for this, but at 12th level she's doing

>iaijutsu slash +13 (2d8+23 plus 4d8, 15-20/x2)

For an NPC's wealth and point buy, I think that's pretty decent (she's a finesse duelist). It's better than the 1d8+19 plus 2d8 she was dealing before.

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>>49226915
>>49227220
>>49227665
Alright, first is the link to the Platinum Gestalt, still in initial testing phase. Please critique as hard as you can
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/17MgoXvdcJOIB7C5P3rXFRTLNTi64jqw4zVdqX-cUFSQ/edit?usp=sharing

Next is my new Doc filled with the links of all my homebrews, as well as names of future projects, and space to comment on anything else you good people may want
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/10i0sPMcmX8IUrEatDH24L6m-L9xnFIJOpTvjX6fToUU/edit?usp=sharing

Have fun, I'll come back to look in on any critique. In the meanwhile, I'm going to play some Fallout