/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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I feel like linking this would have been useful
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/608073-deviant-the-subtitle-discussion/page55

>What are your hopes for Deviant?
Revengeance.

>>48699185
>What are your hopes for Deviant?

Quick char-gen option.

>>48699256
>Revengeance

Oh god, I didn't want it but now I want nothing more.

I'm guessing the clades are something along the lines of

1) Dr. Jekyll/Hulk
2) Tetsuo/Psychis/Dr. Manhattan
3) Symbiotes/Guyver
4) The Fly/Full Cronenberg stuff
5) Cyborgs

Guessing the Invisible man fits into one of those sort of categories or another one all together.

>>48699256
>>48699290
>in these hard times of unemployment, some people are willing to resort to extreme measures to provide for their loved ones
>you were to be test subjects
>you were assured that your families would be taken care of
>your families didn't receive a red penny
>but you survived

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEbE3fGfF-o

Ok, Dave, I know you were a little sketchy on whether or not I can play Fateful Findings in Deviant. I understand that, it was early in development!

But, I have moved on. Now I ask: Can I play this in Deviant: https://youtu.be/XAaPx501Dog

>>48699389
I NEED THIS NOW, THANKS.

>>48699256
>>48699285
>>48699389
Do you all seriously think WoD will do anything remotely comedic/non-horror?

>>48699543
>remotely comedic
Anon, Bob the Builder is in Mage.
not!Tom Cruise and not!Scientology are in Mage.

Your mistake is thinking that you can't have humour in horror.

>>48699543
They did Mage

>>48699543

Dudes of Legend exists, ergo anything is possible.

>>48699562
I don't mean that they'll have comedic elements. I mean that they'll do something full-on Revengeance/Mercs 2. There's just no way.
>>48699564
Mage HAS comedy but that doesn't mean it IS comedy. That's like saying Poltergeist is a comedy because it has a couple funny moments.

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Found my favourite pic in Promethean

>>48699543

If you want non-horror CofD, take a look at Scion: Hero, or the Dresden Files RPG, or plenty of other games. Asking for non-horror CofD is like asking for Gundam without mecha; technically possible, but entirely against the point.

>>48699959
I'm not asking for a non-horror CofD. Look at the posts I'm responding to.

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>>48699597
>>48699978
Revengeance is dumb fun, but I wouldn't call it comedic. For all the light hearted monkey chasing elements, Metal Gear is also a game about child soldiers and shit. No one is saying to make a comedy. I'm just saying that something like Revengeance sounds like what Deviant is for.

>>48699829
That image is so out of nowhere. It has nothing to do with the depressing explanation of an Extempore's life. It's just... "holy shit, I can lightning? That's awesome!"
Here it is without the background.

>>48699290
Probably something like
>Technological
>Magical
>Psychic
>Genetic
>Chemical

>An Originist has a strong sense of his own inner workings. As an action, he can draw on his inner reserves to convert a point of bashing damage or Willpower into a point of Pyros.

So they can turn a punch to the face or a kick in the cunt into Pyros? With no limit on how often they can do it?

Promethean Fight Cub = Infinite Power?

Is anyone else hoping for some more magical origins for Deviants? They seem very weird science so far and while that's very cool I hope that's not the only avenue open to them.

>>48699978

Apologies.

>>48700324
It means take 1B or spend 1WP instead of Pyros.

>>48699185
What are the odds that I leave /tg/ for like a month and come back to Deviant news?

>What are your hopes for Deviant?
I remember Dave B roughly describing Deviant as being 'Daredevil, Robocop, Kamen Rider, and Buffy team up to fight Big Pharma while being chased by General Ross and his army of Guyvers'. That's more or less what I'm hoping for. I'm hype as fuck for Deviant.

>>48700349
>It means take 1B or spend 1WP instead of Pyros.

Seriously? If so that wording is appalling

>>48700376
I actually couldn't figure out what you were trying to say at first. It seemed obvious to me what they meant, though in hindsight I can see how you came to that conclusion.

>>48700400
>convert a point of bashing damage into a point of Pyros

I still can barely see your way of reading it. Why not just say "may take take 1B or spend 1WP instead of Pyros"

Meh, maybe I'm the retarded one

>>48699290
Can't wait to run Kamen Rider in Deviant

whats a good opening for a chronicle set in Vampire the Dark Ages, one where the players can become a vampire. Ive read some suppliments but most already assume theyve turned

>>48700922
It depends on what the players are
If any of them are playing vampire hunter, you could start them out investigating rumors of vampires in a village, and have it turn out to be true, or something like that.

>>48700922

Steal from Dracula, man. They're cordially invited to the ominous manor/wizard's castle/shunned monastery/etc.

>>48700819
Just seems more reasonable than assuming they can get punched and gain Pyros willy nilly, for one.

>>48700988
Man, Dracula starts out great, but goes down hill when the narrative leaves Harker and goes to England.

>in the world of darkness, 4chan has /prom/ - Prometheans & Pilgrimages
>endless arguments about whether something was a milestone
>Mages use Forces to troll and change people's posts

>>48701170
>not liking the first technothriller

pleb taste

>>48701453
There's nothing techno about it.
Or thrilling, really.

So The Principle wants all Azoth to return to the single collective, so it pushes Prometheans to become human and give up their Azoth so it can return.

But it makes creating a new Promethean part of the process of becoming human, ensuring that all Azoth can never return together.

I'm not sure this is a good plan really

>>48701485
>fast-paced steamship chase
>wax recordings to mark the journey
>medical hypnosis
>blood transfusions

The whole thing was cutting edge for the 1890s.

>>48699543
Do you mean intentional humor? Because White Wolf/Onyx Path were always good at the unintentional kind.

>>48701660
Even the sharpest cutting edge rusts and dulls with age, anon.

>>48701759
>Even the sharpest cutting edge rusts and dulls with age, anon.

Yeah but an outdated technothriller doesn't take away from what it was at the time.

>>48701759

I just read Dracula for the first time last year and loved it, anon; it's aged just fine.

And that's before the Dracula Dossier turned it into an international spy triple-crossing mountain of plot hooks. I can't unsee Van Helsing as a German spy once it was pointed out to me..

>Every time I consider reading the forums opinion on something I'm starting to realize I'm having little to no patience for autists or man children sperging out for 20 fucking pages.
When did I get so old I stopped being able to deal with this shit.

>>48701822
I gave up around 16 or so, save for the Exalted forum which burned me out on their game at 19.

Seriously, the worst online community I have ever seen is the official Exalted forum. Even compared to us at our worse.

>>48701822

You've never been on a bad forum if you think the official CofD boards are bad. I envy you.

>>48701838
I just don't get how they can get like that. My tolerance I think spiked down during the Caine Versus exalted thread which probably still remains the most cringest thread I've ever been part of.

I just don't get how you can be that way.

>>48701838
Exalted fans never used to be this bad. Fucking Chung ruined everything by evealing the "one true way" of playing and turning the entire community into a load of polarized, bickering autists

>>48701873
I don't go on forums. Which outside of some bullshit here, tend to be way worse. Even if you go as far on them as you can here. I don't normally so many fucking people go into unironic autist manchild rants.

>>48701892
They were bad before Chung. He just pointed something out and people got to up their asses around it.

>>48701820
>I just read Dracula for the first time last year and loved it, anon; it's aged just fine.
I honestly hated everyone but Harker and maybe Seward. By the time I got to Lucy and Mina and "oh, I'm sure that strange person visiting Lucy in the gardens is just my imagination, and has nothing to do with her sudden weakness", I stopped caring and never finished. I wanted to get back to the real estate lawyer trapped in the spooky ass castle.

>>48701838
>>48701822
You are literally on fucking 4chan.
The only real difference with forums is more persistent identities, less ephemeral thread length (not that it ever stops drawn out shitposting arguments here), and moderators that actually moderate and keep you from calling everyone a sperm-guzzling retarded niggerfaggot dumpster baby of an oozey cuntrag.

>>48701892
Don't play exalted. What happened?

>>48701972

Then you missed the part where the mad scientist vampire hunter used hypnosis to track Dracula via the psychic link established between the count and one of his half-turned victims, or where the humble real estate man kills the vampire with an inexplicable Gurkha knife. It's a fun book, and that's before you get into postmodern fucking with the text.

You can't really critique a book you read a third of.

>>48701994
Chungian Combat.

He codified the combat system in such a way that it became impossible to win if you played any other way (including NPCs, so every opponent except another Solar also played Chungian by the ST was chump bait), and if both combatants played it Chungian then combat never ended because your essence (fuel stat) became your hit-points, and you regenerated as many as you spent each turn.

He took all the fun out of combat in a combat-heavy game. It's not actually his fault the game was fucked mechanically, but he was the figurehead who brought it to the masses like the Commandments from Moses.

>>48702044
I've never really understood these complaints, and no one has ever really sufficiently explained it.

>>48702025
>You can't really critique a book you read a third of.
If it takes more than a third of the book to actually be worth reading...
Also, it was told in an epistolary format, that's already fucking with the text.
Also it was a Bowie Knife. I never finished it, but I did my research. Like many things, its footprint is bigger than it's boot, and often the impressions are better than the real thing (although Alice in Wonderland is the prime example of "things inspired by it are better than it").

I had once planned for Quincy Harker's journal to be a plot point in a Hunter game, and serve something similar to John Winchester's journal from Supernatural.

>>48701972
>You are literally on fucking 4chan.
Yes, which is saying something

>The only real difference with forums is more persistent identities, less ephemeral thread length (not that it ever stops drawn out shitposting arguments here), and moderators that actually moderate and keep you from calling everyone a sperm-guzzling retarded niggerfaggot dumpster baby of an oozey cuntrag.

Here's the problem: The moderators have bias, and the long thread length does soemthing to posters on that board that makes them insufferable pedants even by comparison. I don't pretend that it makes sense, but I have been active here, on the Exalted forums, and on forums for Pathfiner and Shadowrun at the same time. By far the worst one is the official Exalted forum. Even 4chan's Exalted threads don't have some kind of mental cancer like that one. I'm sorry, I really don't know why.

>>48702125

We can agree to disagree on it. Also, Morris had a Bowie knife and Harker had a kukri; they worked together.

The Dracula Dossier makes for a great Hunter campaign.

>>48701972
I'd rather have people calling me that than being passive agressive and autist as fuck. Forums intrinsically worse because they get incesty.

>>48700325
Well, Dave did mention Buffy as a potential possible Deviant. I really like the cult ritual gone wrong idea for a character, actually.

>>48702184

Because I'm me and I have to talk Mummy, I like the idea of an utterly botched attempt at turning a modern mortal into a new host for a cult's Arisen patron creating a Deviant instead.

>Extempore recover Pyros through snuggling

daaawww

>>48702283
Page?

>>48702318
170

>Additionally, Extempore may sleep near another Promethean regaining Pyros during his slumber. This vague kinship recovers Pyros as if she were near her own element.

>>48702201
Hah, might be interesting. While I am interested in a Magic Deviant, I also want to see a Deva Corp created Deviant with his Scars manifesting similarly to extreme Stigmatic Brands lining up with an Agency, potentially with the Demon-Blooded to keep semi-even.

An example alchemist is immortal, but the alchemist section doesn't mention immortality anywhere?

Am I blind?

>>48703080
It mentions several things that are mechanically impossible, as it is. Immortality is just the most glaring (since there's no Transmutation that confers immortality, RAW an alchemist couldn't make a potion to do this)

>>48700231
this, I think they meant less lol fucking invincible maymays and more vicious killer cyborgs with massive past mental trauma.

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So apparently Edward Cullen isn't as faggy as Lestat.

Apparently I'm wrong about this.

Apparently I need to read Twilight. Sorry, first movie was enough torture, thanks

Apparently 'faggy' means 'unmanly'.

Apparently I shouldn't go near VtR because of first statement.

Honestly, all last thread, was that just some dude getting butthurt about me calling something not homosexual 'gay' and 'faggy'?

Also

/snarkcasm off

Apparently, Virtues and Vices are gone (or at least made more nebulous), and something akin to the old Nature and Demeanor returns in VtR (Called something like 'Dirges' and somesuch. I can't remember, it's been a while). Do Werewolves and Mages have something similar, or do they fall back on Virtue and Vice?

>>48703107
I'm pretty sure she's lifted wholecloth from Blood Bathers actually

>>48703143
As for the butthurt, that would be Aspel.

>>48703143

People would be more willing to talk to you if you didn't sound like a middle schooler.

>>48703173
Who?

>>48703199
Do you not know where you are?

>>48702125
Exalted combat is broke, Chung pointed out how broke it is so fanboys whined at him and about him because it's easier than admitting their pet game sucks.

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>>48703206
You obviously don't know where you are. /wodg/ is basically /lgbt/, whether we want it or not. Also, Aspel is our resident queer autist. But he actually reads the books, so there's that.

>>48703223
>But he actually reads the books, so there's that.

I somehow feel as if I've come out on top.

Though now I wonder how they measure up to Rice's work. I remember liking those novels...

Can a Promethean change Refinement at will? Or is it only after reaching a milestone?

>>48703237
>I somehow feel as if I've come out on top.
Over most of the shitposters, for sure. You bring politics in a little too much for me. I don't disagree with your opinions, but shit. It's annoying to read.

Did any bloodlines get a 2nd edition update?

I wanted to reply to guy with the Samedi homebrew and while writing it I had to interrupt it and thread hit hte limit so I'm posting it now.
>>48692307
* twilight sense should work just on ghostly ephemera
** the explanation with anchor is weird, why would ghost vanish after scene if the samedi is anchor?
**** talisman part is unexplained - how hard/expensive is to create/get such talisman? Full physical skills and attributes plus just bashing damage is really strong compared to zombies or similar creatures in other places in CoD.
boon is weird, why should nosferatu vampires handling death should be lively fellows? Also I feel that ignoring clan bane is quite major power which shouldn't be granted so easily.
Weakness is really weak, most it is hardly noticeable.

>>48703562
Thanks for the reply!
*Agreed on Twilight sense.
**About the familiar: I think that a constant companion is too strong for a low level discipline, so the vampire acts as a temporary anchor, after which the ghost returns to the Underworld or its other anchors.
**** Crafting the amulet is an extended wits+crafts roll requiring 10 success. I also think the zombies are too strong, so I'll give them a common statline.
They are lively despite their association with death because Baron Samedi is a funny guy in Vodoo tradition. But you're right, it should be toned down, and their bane should be more limiting. Any ideas about that?

Is it possible to cultivate/grow spirits for specific purposes? I've been throwing around the idea of using unwitting "hosts" to foster the growth of motes and try to create spirits from a pure, intentional emotion.

Motes of joy tend to evolve into spirits of excess and protection into violence or paranoia , but could you could control their growth and keep a spirit pure joy, courage, hope ect?

>>48703784
You'd have to feed it nothing but pure unashamed joy and glee to keep it pure, but yes you could.

So what's the general consensus on Promethean 2E? I'm about a third way through it and I'm pretty damn keen on it, having only had vague interactions with 1e(insomuch as I read what i needed in order to spoof prometheans for a hunter game). That said, the zi, zir shit is hard to read. Like...actually confusing. They and their works better, god dammit.

>>48704583
It's just that one page with the zie shit, and yeah it was difficult to read.

Overall looks aight, devastated by the lack of interesting qashmallim mechanics

>>48704624
Anytime they mention Combo they do it. Which so far has only been twice, granted. Let me guess, Qashmallim are just ephemeral beings with nothing special, like angels pre-Demon STG?

>>48704656
Even less interesting. Get generic numina, only take bashing damage and are in twilight but aren't ephemera. Two ranks; lesser and greater with an effective azoth of 3 or 6 and that's it

>>48704671
Wordcount strikes again. Hopefuly we get a book talking about them more in depth.

>>48704704
>word count limitations
>in a PDF
>where they reprint entire rule sections from the core book, including ephemeral entities that aren't even relevant to the splat in question

That makes no sense to me

>>48704719
I believe they're given a relatively hard limit on each section as to how long it can be, due to them getting payed based on how long the book is. But my understanding is vague, one of the actual devs who pop in occasionally could probably explain it in more depth.

>>48701615
The Principle is busted, anon. It's quite obvious that it used to be something like the GM but something's gone wrong, and now its logic is screwed up, among other things. The only way to heal the Principle is to wake up Dark Mom

>>48704719
Priorities, man. You do get a specific word count for each section. I imagine they also pay freelancer based on volume of work so re-printing existing blocks could be cheaper.

>>48704955
This oversaturation of ultimate cosmic entities which are all supposedly stronger than all the others is what killed the OWoD. Let's not go there again.

>>48704980
DM, GM, and Principle are all the same level, except that it's possible the two computers are parts of a single entity of order that got split in half somehow. Every other cosmic entity is DM's babbu. No dick waving, just a hierarchy.

>>48705054
Yeah, except that Vampire fans would tell you that the Crone or Jesus or whatever was clearly the one stronger than all of them, and Werewolf fans would tell you that Father Wolf was greater than all of them, and Mage fans would tell you that the Exarchs are on a completely different league, and so on and on and on.

>>48705081
Vamp shit and Father wolf are bound to reality, same as the Gods

Dark Mother and God Machine are on the same level, but functionally omnipotent

Exarchs are above them

Principle is above them

The ST is above them all

>>48705081
I don't know, I'm primarily a WW fan and I'm totally fine with DM making the first big spirits, then Papa Wolf doing his thing. The Exarchs have nothing to do with her, but the dragons probably do, and the Crone may very well just BE Dark Momma.

>>48703215
Are we talking the new edition, or the last one?

>>48705167
2e. Chung is banned from Exalted forums now

>>48703143
>So apparently Edward Cullen isn't as faggy as Lestat.
No. You misunderstand. The problem with Edward isn't that he is unmanly. It's that he is shittily written.

>Apparently, Virtues and Vices are gone (or at least made more nebulous), and something akin to the old Nature and Demeanor returns in VtR (Called something like 'Dirges' and somesuch. I can't remember, it's been a while). Do Werewolves and Mages have something similar, or do they fall back on Virtue and Vice?
Mask and Dirge, yeah. Which is pretty much Nature and Demeanor. It works out pretty well.
Werewolves have something close to the Vampire stuff, Blood and Bone. They are meant to represent them in normal life, and on the hunt, respectively.
Mages are the most human of the supers, and thus retain Virtue and Vice.

>>48705174
Ah. Ok! Has 3rd ed been broken open yet?

>>48705187
And Prometheans have Elpis and Torment, which represent what they seek in humanity and what keeps them away from it

>>48705210
>>48705187
Changelings have something similar to the vampires in their playtest, but it's mentioned as being on the change-list.

>>48705200
YEah, but without perfect defences, not to the same retarded degree because there's always some other meme build that can counter your meme build

>>48705081
I mean, it's not like you have to use them in the same setting. And unless you want to actually focus on a war between the principal and the god machine or the dark mother and exarchs or something, they're usually kept quite insular.

>>48700325
Well it was mentioned there would be stuff like cults and rituals on people strapped onto altars. I think most of the magical origin stuff would likely lend itself to Dark Eras.

>>48704583
Compared to Beast it's certainly nice that it has some direction. One might argue too much of it
That said (and ignoring pronouns):
Transmutations are unbalanced and the calcifing part plus forgetting transmutation which you learned in one refinement and then not knowing it when in refinement which has same transmutation seems needlessly complicated and probably not very new player friendly.
Pandorans' system is written using rules for ephemeral entities with attributes x 3, which which would already make them really strong plus compared to ephemeral entities they actually have skills which puts single one into major badass territory. And they are supposed to operate in packs...
Otherwise ok I guess.

>>48704656
Plus Phosphorum because ... reasons.

>>48705054
Except there is no reason to think there even really is DM.

>>48705494
>Transmutations are unbalanced

>The character channels the fire’s energy and takes it into her internal forge. She may automatically succeed (with the equivalent of one success) in a number of actions equal to the successes rolled on the power’s activation.

"I use Divine Guidance and jump to the moon"
*automatic success*

>>48705518
You misunderstand. It is more like this:
"I use Divine Guidance and jump, I want to get to the moon."
*automatic success*
"Wow! You jumped really high! Like... [successes feet], that's amazing! Not the moon tough."

>>48705576
Automatically succeed. So even if reaching the moon is a -10k dice penalty it's irrelevant, you still get there

>>48705518
>>48705576
Pretty much. Automatic successes barely matter on tests that require a certain number of successes to actually do what you want, like running or attacking. They help, sure. They mean you can skip the roll, but sometimes it's better to just roll because you're likely to get more. As with staff

>>48705593
No. Jumping gets you a distance based on successes.

>>48705593
Jumping is pretty clear: success = distance. It's not a penalty on your check, you idiot

>>48705576

A success is a success. You don't let them roll to jump to the moon in the first place, but if you do, you must live with the fact that you made it possible.

>>48705625
>>48705619
Ok, so that was a shit example.

>>48705662
Better example would be called shots to the head

>>48699185
Anyone got the VtR 2e sourcebook?

>>48703562
>>48703658
Seeing Spark of Life Distillation in Promethean I would say the Raise Zombie isn't that overpowered.

>>48705682
Considering how widespread is armour and armour granting powers it doesn't seem that overpowered.

>>48705682
Which don't really do anything special, do they? unless you're using one of the hacks that upgrade hits to the head in terms of damage.

>>48706681
They cause tilts more easily

>>48706693

How devastating can a Tilt be in combat? It's one of the few 2e mechanics I haven't directly interacted with in the game.

>>48706681
>>48706757
It causes Stunned tilt if it causes at least victim size-1 damage... So single success doesn't really do anything.
Stun makes victim lose single turn and halves defense. If the victims spends willpower, it causes just -3 penalty.

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>>48703316
Ok. Well I can stop here then, as at least someone kind of gets where I'm coming from.

Now to wheel myself out of shitposting and back on topic:

>>48703143
>Virtues and Vices are gone (or at least made more nebulous), and something akin to the old Nature and Demeanor returns in VtR (Called something like 'Dirges' and somesuch. I can't remember, it's been a while). Do Werewolves and Mages have something similar, or do they fall back on Virtue and Vice?

Is still a question I have.

>>48707024
>Do Werewolves and Mages have something similar, or do they fall back on Virtue and Vice?

Werewolves have Bone (your human side) and Blood (your hunting side); Mages have Virtue and Vice.

>>48707066
And Virtues and Vices are no longer based solely off the 7 Heavenlies and 7 Deadlies, right?

>>48707139

Correct. They're what your character considers their best and worst trait, more or less. The thing they suffer for because it's right (Virtue) and the thing they indulge in but it's wrong (Vice).

If my starting Prom picks Redirect as his starting Alembic, do I get all three powers listed under it?

>>48707311
You get the passive power and the 3 other powers but you need to see it as a bottle that you're filling. 1st pyros spent allows you to use the first power, 2nd pyros unlocks the second one and 3rd pyros the 3rd power

>>48707311
Yep

>>48707335
Does 3 Pyros unlock all 3, or just the 3rd?

>>48707335
>>48707340
Cool, thanks

Also fuck you Matt, those Alchemist rules are terrible.

>>48707450
All three for the scene

>>48707450
The three of them

Is it just me, or is Arc really overpowered as an attack spell?

Will there be CofD-streams on Twitch as well, or is it oWoD only?

>>48707506
Lethal damage that ignores armor, doesn't allow defense, hits everyone within Azoth yards and repeats damage for 6 turns ensuring anyone with less than 8 health levels is a 1hit kill, and an extra Pyros makes it aggravated?

That's fucking harsh

>>48707586
Friendly reminder that killing someone with a supernatural power is a roll to keep your pilgrimage

>>48707693
Even Pandorans?

>>48707693
so the downside of getting to auto kill people is that you have to roll to keep what, your morality stat? oh noes.

http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-storypath-system-preview/

>>48707737
Probably not, no. But vamps and gay-werewolves are probably on the list.

>>48707737
It says "people," so presumably anything smart enough to be a person.

>>48707747
Pilgrimage is the literal only reason Prometheans exist; turning your back on it just so kill some dudes is not going to let you last long.

>>48707766
Says human, I'd say Mage or super merits. No templates.

>Injuring or killing multiple people with supernatural abilities

Does this mean killing people with his supernatural powers, or people who have supernatural abilities?

>>48707774
>Pilgrimage is the literal only reason Prometheans exist; turning your back on it just so kill some dudes is not going to let you last long.

So, what'd happen if they found themselves in a role where killing someone is the correct way to move forward?

>>48707796
Then you kill them like a human: with sledgehammers, cars, and guns.

>>48707766
>Probably not, no. But vamps and gay-werewolves are probably on the list.

What about straight werewolves?

>>48703421
Khaibit did.

>>48707810
These are clearly aberrations unworthy of the title "person"

>>48707545

Look into your heart and ask yourself what the answer is.

You're not going to like it.

>>48707754

Aw shit, time to download this!

the people on the opp forums are being idiots

how can i make an immortal mage that isnt a monster?

>>48706757
Decently robust. In a werewolf game I play, our "combat optimized" character, who can with some effort throw dice pools of 21 at things, got chain-stunned by another werewolf who just kept punching him in the head. It was really, pretty damn funny.

>>48707909
Mmm...assuming your GM would allow it, you could use a life spell, there's a life spell that lets you accelerate growth so reasonably you could do the reverse and make its duration indefinite. But it'd be subject to dispelation.

>>48707909
Making: Life, Time

Unmaking: Death, Forces, Time

>>48707958
>Unmaking: Death, Forces, Time

Forces? Huh. How do you figure that?
Cryo-freeze?

>>48707975
Can't age if your cells don't expend energy

>>48707984
Yeah.. but can you like.. act?
...
...
That said, an old mage, in cryo-stasis. Acting only as a mental construct, gliding around in Twilight, and wandering the Astral-realms.

So has anyone tried using Beasts in their game, even as NPCs? I feel like there's a lot of potential as city-effecting lovecraftian style horrors, but I may just write my own small splat for that.

>>48707586
And if I understand the charging distillations rules correctly, you can keep nuking other critters for the rest of the scene with no additional pyros expenditure... As if pyros wasn't already too easy to get.

>>48708254
I did. It was the catalyst for a mixed game where it was basically acting like a Host of the Dark Mother - it was trying to eat as many Sups as possible to grow in power and become the DM.

I also play one in a changeling game and STed two one-player games for Beast. The rumors are true, Beasts have nothing to do and must lean on other splats to get them something interesting

drivethrurpg.com/product/187949?affiliate_id=13&src=TheOnyxPath

It looks like CofD and Fate had a baby. I'm pleased.

>>48707909
Veil of Moments does pretty much that.

>>48708254

I'm toying with a Hunter chronicle largely built around homebrew groups trying to mess with the Astral, where Beasts, Changelines, Mages, and Morpheans would be the primary baddies.

>>48707909

use something plot-fiaty to do it.

Spells will get dispelled, and other common methods require you to do dicky things or mutilate yourself.

Have fun being a morphean, being stuck in dreams and unable to grow, faggot.

>>48708473
no, i mean as a player

>>48708359
I see - the note about the reliance on other splats is one I'll keep note of. Did you have fun playing as a beast?

>>48708450
That sounds neat - do you plan on making mixed groups or would each sup be part of its own faction?

>>48708574
work with your ST, if you want lame faggot immortality with no interesting parts they'll do that for you.

>>48708635
I'm hoping the game finishes quickly. It's not boring just... repetitive

>>48708359
How do they have nothing to do? Fucking geists have nothing to do and you can still make a story with them.

>>48708672
i just want no drawbacks . it can still be interesting

>>48708635

It would probably have everyone as mortal hunters, most likely new to Astral travel or maybe me,bers of the Merrick Institute. Everyone else (plus two homebrew groups, a bunch of symbolic terrorists trying to destroy harmful ideas in the universal subconscious and a government program aimed at using the Astral for espionage and psyops) as antagonists.

>>48708331
>As if pyros wasn't already too easy to get.

Harder than most fuels. 3 easy points/day,so that's one full charged distillation. Essence/Mana are much easier to procure en masse

>>48708733

"no drawbacks" is the very definition of uninteresting, when it comes to immortality.

>>48708733
what is "not interesting" for 500, Alex?

>>48708733

It doesn't sound like Mage is the game for you, anon. You're allowed to not like something, but don't try to crowbar it into a new shape.

>>48707909
Become an archmaster. Do an archmaster or aeon a solid. There's very little way for it to happen otherwise. Though chances are your ST is going to give you can't age/immune to diseases immortality instead of has to be subdued instead of killed immortality. It really depends on the ST. Though you can be fundamentally the former with just life magic.

>>48708760
>>48708761
no you dont understand! if you have lots of drawbacks you dont have time to do other stuff

>>48708733
Mages can become Purified, but it costs them their arcana & gnosis

How badly does he want to live forever?

>>48708781
Speaking of which has anyone ever tried an archmaster game? It's something I've always wanted to do but never had the chops to run it myself or had people willing to run it for me.

>>48708730
No real adversaries. No society. Find a friend and never feed again. Caring about your Lair only matters a few times anyway.

You can sure tell a story, but it's a very repetitive one: feed, scare, feed, scare, roflstomp a hero

>>48708753
Lol? You get it while touching sources of electricity one pyros a turn.

>>48708790
>Vampires are immortal at the cost of drinking blood, losing their soul, burning in sunlight
>Mummies get immortality at the cost of amnesia, eternal slavery, and long stretches of time spent dead

Why should you be any different?

>>48708829
And then the supply shorts out and you need an engineer to come fix it.

That's gonna piss people off

>>48708680
Yikes.

>>48708751
Sorry, I should have clarified - I was wondering if any of the antagonistic groups were made up of mixed supplements (like, say, a group made of humans and changelings)?

>>48708790
Tell me how you'd make it interesting, and I may try to answer your question.

>>48708850
Because Mages are the best, you know that

>>48708850
Mages have functional immortality anyway so long as you abuse high level life spells. The only way you can get full immortality by casting, fuck it's been forever since I've read archmasters but level 7 spells let you give yourself immortality. Which means you need to talk to an Aeon or Archmaster about it. Though who knows if they'll give it too you and an aeon will most certainly put a condition on it using you as their bitch. An archmaster most likely will just cast the spell and leave you be but you've got to get the ingredients for him. Which will be an arduous task in and of itself.

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>>48708733

>>48708879

Probably monster of the week stuff until I could build a decent Conspyramid, maybe with the Autumn Court shacking up with the Dark Mother. Possibly do a thematic "fear of..." thing for villains, like fear of change for the government guys ir fear of death for Morphean liches.

>>48703173
>>48703143
>Apparently I need to read Twilight.
I'm not butthurt. Also, you missed the point, I never said you should do that. Basically >>48703199

>>48703237
>Though now I wonder how they measure up to Rice's work
Terribly. And they meant I read the WoD books. I even said I haven't read Twilight; pay attention

>>48708872
In book there is explicitly written that you don't have to wait till it shortens out. You can suck the electricity from another source, cities are full of wall sockets. Or you can just a wait a moment. Or one member of throng can have Machinus alembic. It's literally easiest fuel stat to recharge compared to any other splat.

>>48708733
>Immortality
>No drawbacks
>Can still be interesting

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not.

>>48708733
The only time immortality is interesting, WITHOUT having any blatant drawbacks, is when the person is too old and numb to care about anything, and THAT becomes the drawback.

And even then, that probably doesn't set in until you're REALLY damn old.

>>48709191
>>48709166
>>48708879
>>48708850

purified are immortal without drawbacks, and I hear noone complain that they are not interesting

>>48709223
Purified are immortals. That's their whole thing, their very concept.

If you want a Purified Mage, do it. It's just boring and out-of-theme with Mages

>>48709223
>and I hear noone complain that they are not interesting
You just quoted 4 people who are

>>48709223
1. Purified are weak as shit and any pleb Rank 2 spirit can fuck them entirely.

2. I fucking mentioned Purified earlier, Mages are still human enough to become one at the cost of their mage advantages

>>48709223
1000 year-old Purified still sucks and is more fluff than crunch. 1000 year-old Mage is an archmage and reliably offering Immortality breaks the setting in half

>>48709166
Not that guy, but as an NPC it could be interesting - some things are inherent disadvantages of immortality (such as watching all of your friends and family die) which cannot be averted, and several lifetimes of existence can make them an enigmatic force in the city.

If there's no one alive who remembers them, it makes them even more scary - for what unknown purpose do they do things? What does the fountain down east side which none of the sups care about hold the immortal's attention so much? They're a wild card which can be made almost lovecraftian in their unknown purpose.


>>48709223
Purified have two main weaknesses - they find it increasingly hard to interact with the normal world, And spirits are able to wreck their shit.

Not only does that counter the whole "no drawback" issue, but because it isn't compatible with other splats (since you die and become purified in the process), you can't be a purified mage. A purified in a mage party could be interesting in the right hands - I doubt those hands are yours.

>>48709409
>you can't be a purified mage

You can be a Purified former Mage though. If he can't / won't go to an archmaster and wants eternity more than power it's possible, and fate/death/spirit magic set up beforehand can remove the risk of the purification ritual

>>48709409
>Purified have two main weaknesses - they find it increasingly hard to interact with the normal world, And spirits are able to wreck their shit.

oh please, spirits wreck everyones shit

>>48709550
Yeah but not everyone has to interact with them to get by. And werewolves can at least fight them

>>48709550
>>48709557
Can't Purified become lords of a Spirit Court?

>>48709719

With a maximum effective Rank of 4? Nope.

Anyone is excited to see how they convert Second Sight to 2nd edition in the Dark Eras Companion?

>>48707754
YOOOOOO

Did the gen con thing get fixed?

>>48710134
The brochure? yes

>>48709999

I'm excited for every single thing in the Companion; Second Sight updates, a new Lineage, all sorts of Mummy weirdness, new Geist and Demon content, maybe some updated Bloodlines...

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>>48709104
>Going on about old news

>>48710300
Isn't like the first episode of Louie basically him admitting that was still a shitty and hurtful bit?
Although gays were never used for kindling, that's a folk-etymology.

>>48710259
New Lineage?
I do like how Lineages are set up now, so that you don't *have* to be descended from the same unbroken line of Prometheans.

>>48706323
Well, spark of life only lasts one scene.
>>48703562
All is till WIP
Samedi
Clan: Nosferatu
Bloodline Disciplines: Nightmare, Obfuscate, Vigor, Vodoo
* Twilight Sense: by spending a point of Vitae, the Samedi may see and communicate with ghostly ephemerals in Twilight for the rest of the scene.
** Ghostly Familiar: the Samedi has "befriended" a Rank 1 ghost (created following the normal rules). By spending a point of Willpower and rolling Presence+Occult+Vodoo, the ghost appears in Twilight close to them. It treats the character as an anchor and must obey their commands for the rest of the scene, after which it returns to the Underworld.
*** Cursed Touch (Dexterity+Occult+Vodoo, contested by Resolve+Composure): activates by spending a point of Vitae and touching the target. It loses a point of Willpower for each exceeding success obtained by the Samedi on the activation roll.
**** Raise Zombie (Intelligence+Occult+Vodoo): by spending 2 points of Vitae and making it wear a specially made talisman around its neck (requiring 10 success in an extended Wits+Crafts roll, each roll being fifteen minutes), the Samedi animates a corpse as an undead minion. Its speed is reduced to 5, it has 2 dots in Strength and Stamina, and 1 dot in Dexterity, Athletics and Brawl, but all other attributes and skills are reduced to 0. It can understand simple commands from its master. It is immune to mind control and reduces lethal damage to bashing, but crumbles if it suffers a single point of damage from fire, if the talisman is taken from it, if its creator enters torpor, or at the next sunrise. The Samedi may spend a Vitae daily to prolong its existence.
***** Friends from the Other Side (Presence+Expression): the Samedi summons vengeful ghosts, considered to be a single Rank 5 ghost. They obey the summoner as long as he succeeds on a Presence+Expression roll before each order he gives. If he fails, his friends may decide to leave or turn on him.
Boon:
Weaknesses:

>>48710359
You never *had* to be descended from an unbroken line of Prometheans.
It's just that most Prometheans are created by other Prometheans.

>>48710359

Prophets, the Lineage that was tied to elemental fire before the Wretched existed. They were made from those who died in agony (torture, plague, violent death) and experienced visions from the Divine Fire.

I'm hoping we see them and a 2e update to the Morbus in the Black Death crossover.

>>48710389
What I mean is that in 1e, each Promethean needed to come from a genitor, and there was only ever one Demiurge per Lineage. In 2e, it's possible to have been made by a Demiurge without being part of a new Lineage.

>>48710392
>2e Morbus
I want this so much.

>>48705200
Yes, three Tyrant Lizard familiars, supernal survival.

>>48710637
Sounds like the kind of think an ST isn't going to allow in the first place.

>>48710693

It's totally allowable, it just has so many problems that it's too much of a pain to ever do in an actual game.

>>48710721
I'd never allow someone to have three familiars, especially not ones so large.

>>48710259

Speaking of which, Mummy/Mage crossover is apparently going to talk about how Mummy Twilight and Mage Twilight differ, and how Mummy's mechanics interact with 2e's Ghosts.

I won't lie, I'm hyped.

>>48711053

Here's hoping it explores Mummy's unique stance is a place, rather than just a state of being.

I hope one of the Mummy eras gives us rules for Iremite demons as well.

>>48711053
I would be hyped but I don't know a single person who's going to ever play mummy or wants to be a mummy. They are really good thematically but they are just very hard to get into.

>>48711014
Why not? They're going to be weaker than the PC themselves.

>>48711014
Last time I checked you could literally have as many familiars as you felt like it. The real issue is that unless you create a charm there's no way they can all apply to combat.

Familiars are pretty much just a weapon in 3rd edition.

>>48711436
>>48711475
It's more that having three unique characters in addition to your PC is something I don't like allowing in my games. Not because of mechanical reasons but because of narrative ones; I don't want to keep track of extras. Also, I haven't played Exalted, but "Tyrant Lizard" is presumably a dinosaur, and having just one of those following the party is bad enough, but having three is insane for logistical reasons.

>>48706250
Check here https://mega.nz/#F!wpB0ib4a!EsAU0AE4ihrNlDWzp3-MIw!h9RUmbDJ in the VtR section - it's called "blood and smoke chronicles" within it. Blood and Sorcery is also 2e.
--
Unrelated, but what are the core elements that make up a supernatural supplement, in your opinion?

I have a rough idea I'm working on fleshing out and wanted to have a rough idea of the minimum amount of stuff to include. I have ideas for:
>Clan equivalents (to use vampire terminology)
>Covenant equivalents
>Supernatural abilities and why they have them
>Enemies (both internal and external)
>Integrity, virtue and vice equivalents
>How they'd interact with other splats
>At least one city where their population is significant (but not Beast Vancouver levels or anywhere close)
>Themes (still shaky on them, but I'm getting there)

Is there anything else I'm missing?

>>48711569
>Blood and Sorcery is also 2e.
No it isn't. They just happened to be aware there was a new edition coming soon (though not specifics).

>Unrelated, but what are the core elements that make up a supernatural supplement, in your opinion?
You mean you want a fansplat?

>>48711715
>No it isn't
oh.

>You mean you want a fansplat?
I plan on making one, yeah. I'm doing my own research, but I wanted to get a second opinion.

Am I the only one troubled by the fact that according to the Storypath system, Momentum is something you gain when you FAIL? Logically, wouldn't Momentum be something you gain when you succeed, which would then allow you to succeed even more easily in the future? I mean, I agree it's a less fitting gaming mechanic, but I'm not the one who picked the name. Momentum means fast will get faster, not the other way around.

>>48711817
What IS your fansplat? that's the most important thing

Jesus Christ. As if what this mess of a system needed was to become even more of a Fate ripoff. I'd rather just play Fate and be done with this bullshit.

>>48711569
>Check here https://mega.nz/#F!wpB0ib4a!EsAU0AE4ihrNlDWzp3-MIw!h9RUmbDJ in the VtR section - it's called "blood and smoke chronicles" within it. Blood and Sorcery is also 2e.

This is just plain wrong.
First, the pre-2e name was Blood & Smoke, the Strix Chronicles.
Second, Blood and Sorcery is 1e, but it is written in such a way as to be easily ported to 2e, which they were working on when it was written.

>>48711853

It's a catch-up mechanic, so that you don't spend the entire session failing if the dice aren't in your favor.

I'm really glad to see such a heavy FATE Aspect influence in the Paths, though full examples would be lovely.

>>48711920
I much prefer the CofD and Storypath system to Fate's core mechanics.

Also, maybe you could try to quit bitching and instead realize that taking inspiration from a different game doesn't make something a rip off.

>>48712040
Or at the very least, rip off a good game

>>48712060
>implying Fate, GUMSHOE, and PbtA aren't the holy trinity of game systems

>>48712085
Fortunately, you can tell that's trolling since no one could genuinely believe that without suffering from brain damage severe enough to inhibit typing

>>48712085
Honest question: If you like FATE and urban fantasy, why aren't you playing Dresden Files instead of CofD?

>>48711891
Well I'm still working on the idea, but the general idea is:
>Spirits from unused sex cells are stored in some kind of prison - will change whether or not the setting uses the God Machine. Potentially the sun?
>Groups of spirits with something in common can only escape by working together, and so they escape into the real world. These common traits are the major factor for deciding your clan equivalent.
>In the "real world", the density of alike spirits form into a kind of pseudo body, which is held together by the sense of unity the gathered unborn spirits feel and when too damaged, bursts apart until the player can put itself back together.
>Using a number of tricks, the unborn spirits need to try and 'define' themselves through their actions, becoming more and more human as they develop.
The end game would be to define oneself further and further until they can tether themselves to the world properly, being "born" into the world.


>>48712085
That's funny. Wrong, but funny.

>>48710382
>Well, spark of life only lasts one scene.
Unless you roll exceptional success or use Spagyria alembic persistent bonus, then it last whole day.
>If he fails, his friends may decide to leave or turn on him.
I like this part. Probably won't happen much but still works nice to ensure it won't be overused.

>>48712151

I don't like the Dresden Files setting, I do like the CofD setting, and the Dresden Files RPG runs off a weird proto-Fate that's oddly crunchy for what it tries to be. I'm perfectly fine with the CofD system even if I like some others more.

>>48712234
Yeah. Which is kinda strange, since FATE was developed off of Fudge for the explicit purpose of making a Dresden Files RPG.

I'm ok with your argument though, if disappointed.

>>48712151
Given his stated preferences, we're probably dealing the kind of person who chooses his favorite games based on the creators' political agendas first, then convinces themselves the games are good to prevent cognitive dissonance.

>>48712263
Ah. And Jakki doesn't like Libertarians?

>>48712085

>Holy Trinity not PbtA, Burning Wheel, and anything Sine Nomine does

What the fuck, Atamajakki

>>48712151

Dresden Files is a lame setting.

Some new livestream group is having their first vampire cast tonight. Was retweeted by onyxpath and a couple other of their twitter accounts. Im gonna check it out.. was twitchtv/clarityggtv

>>48712263

>No one could like these games! It must be a political conspiracy!

You're one of those weirdos who are trying to make OSR vs Storygames a /pol/ debate proxy, aren't you.

>>48712258

Actually it was for Amber. Fate started as an Amber hack for Fudge.

>>48712317

Truth be told, I'm not familiar with Burning Wheel or Sine Nomine, and my actual list bumps off PbtA in favor of Dramasystem, the engine Hillfolk runs off of.

But GUMSHOE sorely deserves more love.

>>48712369
>Actually it was for Amber. Fate started as an Amber hack for Fudge.

Ah. All I know is that Fred Hicks started Evil Hat with the explicit purpose to make a Dresden Files RPG. He is an old gaming friend with Butcher.
But they realized they didn't have the market presence nor experience to make the system they wanted, so they did some stuff before it. The goal was always Dresden Files though.

>>48712224
>>Spirits from unused sex cells
What? Is this a game about playing literal jerk offs? Vilisemen?

>>48712234
>>48712317
>Dresden Files is a lame setting.
You're wrong.

>>48712263
Isn't Butcher pretty lefty? There are parts in Dresden Files that come off as pretty patronizing if you're the kind of person who'd get upset about someone explaining to his dog that bigots are stupid. He was also used as an example of how Sad Puppies totally wasn't against lefty writers, because they put him on their slate.

>>48712369
Man, the OSR thread seems to spend way too much time shitting on non-OSR games.

>>48712447
Really?

>>48712485
>Really?
Yeah, that's why they got the license. Butcher knew it'd go to people who liked it, rather than just wanted it to make money.

>>48712224
>Spirits from unused sex cells are stored in some kind of prison - will change whether or not the setting uses the God Machine. Potentially the sun?
>the sun is full of rancid jizz and menstrual spirits
I don't think Helios would approve.

>>48712511
I meant the "started Evil Hat [and Fate] just for Dresden Files" part. It honestly seems like a weird pairing.

>>48700364
>Guyvers

FUCK YES

>>48712224
Unused sex cells? Fucking what? You mean like the spirits of the sperm that never made it to the egg or eggs that were never fertilized?

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but how's the current Vampire Humble Bundle? Would newbies be okay with the $8 bundle?

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/vampire-masquerade-rpg-bundle

>>48712485

It's because OSR is currently in early-to mid Forge stage, where everyone's really excited about this cool new thing they're doing. Give it some time and they'll chill out, like a lot of the Forge people did.

>>48712439

You should at least check out Burning Wheel. Might be a bit too beefy for your tastes, but all the parts come together incredibly well. Mouseguard is an excellent entry point for it. Sine Nomine is some of the best OSR stuff in print. /tg/'s super into Godbound right now, but Silent Legions is a lot of fun too.

I need to get into Dramasystem, the idea of running a game about 1800s Occultists like what they mention on Ken and Robin Talk About Stuff is extremely my shit.

>>48713483
A lot of people in this thread don't like oWoD, and those that do generally prefer the 20th Anniversary Editions. That's not bad, but most of us will tell you it is.
oWoD has some really stupid fluff, but worse than that it's got really bad mechanics.

>>48713483

It's worth it for the Book of Nod alone. That's a really strong book from the VtM line. Of course, if you bump up to the next tier, you get one of the worst books in the VtM line, Eternal Hearts, but it's funny bad because it's a canon erotic novel that fails at its purpose.

>>48713526


I've heard wonders about Silent Legions and Mouseguard.

>>48713483
it's pretty much all worth it. it's an outdated version technically but it's got a great deal of the good fluff. the clanbooks are great. the guides to whatever are good. book of nod is fantastic. eternal hearts is shit.

>>48713483
I bought it. The PDFs are better than most anything you'll find in the torrents.

Shin Megami Tensei in CofD how do

>>48713908
And I mean the quality of the PDFs, like searchable and copy/pastable text for example

>>48713924
Play Demon the Descent, fluff it like Digital Devil Saga.

>>48713924
>>48713961
Maybe Luficage Hunters?

Since our OP's too lazy to put it in their copypasta, here's Promethean 2
https://www.sendspace.com/file/jwiihm

>>48714266
Are you blind?

Writing a character background. Well, the story will be revolve around brothers who have inner inferiority complex/jealousy toward each other, albeit with different reasons.

My question is, what could be good reasons for such jealousy? I have no brothers or sisters, so would like some help with those who had similar experience.

>>48714871
The classic would be poor parents who pitted them against each other. Made them believe they were always competing for their parents affection and love. Even after the parents are long gone

>>48714266
That same link is literally in the OP

>>48714871
Well common ones are;

"I see your fortune but don't see mine"
One brother is socially successful, has lots of friends and is beloved in his field. The other has only said brother for a friend, hates his job and wants nothing to do with his field. Why not be jealous of the first brother? Well the second brother has computer for a brain and only hates his field because he finds it boring. Wouldn't you be jealous of your genius brother?

"One year ahead"
One year older, one year stronger, wiser, and with a year more social contacts. How could you even compete? How can you be yourself when you live in his shadow?

On the other hand the older brother just wants to keep his younger happy and healthy. Throwing away his own dreams and ambitions to keep his family alive. Wouldn't you be jealous of your care free little sibling? Wouldn't upset you when he complains how easy everything is for you?

>>48713924
The power scale is too high, but a custom template would probably work best. Making deals with demons and spirits, and storing them in a COMP until you need them sounds pretty cool though.

They need to be careful when doing this storyteller system stuff. Less they fall into the pit falls fate did at its conception.

There is a reason Fate made made everyone go from 4-6 stress boxes down to 2-4. When the morbidly obese computer nerd could tank machine gun fire for extended periods of time you knew something had gone wrong.

>>48717519
What at all does that have to do with anything.

>>48717519
What the fuck are you on about?

>>48717641
>>48717625

Fate characters used to be too hardy, to the point where combats became a drawn out slog. The person's just afraid that the same sort of thing could happen in StoryPath. I'm sure we'll all put it through its paces soon enough, I'd be amazed if Scion wasn't presented in a 80-90% complete text during its Kickstarter.

>>48717817
But as far as I'm aware, Storypath uses more or less the same Health system as WoD.

>>48717817
But he said Storyteller. Which has been out for like a decade. Over two if you count cWoD.

>>48717908

It looks like it might have a bit more Fate in it. It mentions that all the boxes need to be filled up to be taken out, and the picture we see of the health track in the preview appears to be very similar to one of the health systems in Fate, where random boxes will get checked off until the entire bar is full. But, we don't know if it'll actually play out that way, and there's still whatever that Vitality stat does.

>>48717938

He clearly meant StoryPath.

>>48717625
>>48717641

they seam to be using a health system nearly identical to a lot of the early fate stuff. A big issue with the early fate stuff was that everyone was so damn tanky that unless you didn't invest anything into endurance(not even a single point, skill, minor ability) you couldn't really die unless you tried.

With stress boxes, the more boxes you give a player the bigger the hit they can take. If you have 3 boxes and you get hit by a 5 stress hit, you need to mitigate 2 stress at least or be taken out. Sounds fine, but a lot of the early fate stuff said "you get 2 boxes, +1 for ever point in endurance" Endurance also tended to act like defense in a lot of these systems, or you could use a stunt for it. You get a guy with 3 endurance(there character 4-6th best skill most the time) turning every hit in combat to a 1 stress blow if he gets hit at all. So the mage who takes Endurance as his 5th best skill(out of like 10) takes 1 damage hits from combat. The fighter is bored out of is gord because nothing hurts him and if by a miracle of god he does get hit(again probably for 1 damage), he has heals ready because hes specked into this shit.

Even when defense wasn't tied to endurance you could still get characters who would never. EVER. Take consequences(tilts/conditions/wounds in CofD) Because they were so damn tanky. They turned 5 stress hits that should of killed them instantly into mild scuffles that never amounted to anything unless your villain only spammed instant death attacks(which was a thing).

Fate Core said "if you max out tanky, you can have 4 stress. Moderate tanky(2nd-4th best skill) 3 stress. everyone else gets 2. Also we do damage and shit in a sane manner this time. We swear"

tl;dr don't give stress out like candy unless you want your characters to never under any circumstances to feel tension.

>>48718055
>>48718059
Where are you seeing this preview?

Also, you're making a lot of assumptions about how something could work.

>>48718178

Right here: >>48707754

>>48718195
>In other words, the Storyteller System is great for vampires, but it didn’t excel at portraying superheroes…
That never really stopped anyone.

>>48718240
Doesn't mean they shouldn't fix it.

I think my friends hate exalted for this reason.

>>48718240

Storypath seems to be addressing this (at least in Scion) via mucking with the target number and handling that whole Scale thing. Being a superhero or demigod doesn't mean rolling 50 dice, it means you don't need to roll for mundane stuff and your punches splatter puny mortals automatically.

Reading about Momentum and Consolations, I can only imagine how the OSR gritty meatgrinder crowd would say that this is a game for babies that can't handle failure. I really do love it, though. I hate when success or failure is treated as binary, and I hate when DEATH is treated as the ultimate fail state. All too often, death is used as a "get out of consequences free" card, where you start over with a new character instead of playing out the problems of your existing one. It also tends to cut short interesting stories, even when it isn't used like that.

Having things happen and then dealing with them is the sort of thing that interests me. Honestly, I wish I were better at handling and playing through consequences as an ST, instead of ignoring or letting them go (or more often having the game fall apart before they matter).

I also like Momentum. There's a real pendulum feel to it. Your characters are getting their shit kicked in early on and then the pendulum swings back around at the end of the arc and they kick ass.

>>48718355
Yeah, that's definitely an interesting way of handling it.

>>48718413

Momentum seems interesting as a sort of inverse to GUMSHOE's point economy; rather than have success as a dwindling resource, you can endure shitty roles earlier on and blow the resulting Momentum later on when you need it.

One of my only beefs with CofD 2e is that the benefit for damn near everything is Beats which turn into Experiences, which is fine... but something that helps you out right now at the table (like Willpower) makes more sense in that role.

So adventure had daredevils stalwarts and mesmerists right? But now it looks like daredevils are going to be in core. Daredevils were also the weakest of the bunch right?

>>48718468
I've been theorycrafting a system lately and thinking about allowing xp to be spent on successes.

>>48718587

Interesting. Spend them now when you need it, or save them up and hope you live long enough to spend them on permanently increasing your skills?

Red Markets does something similar, as you spend your money earnings on gear, your relationships, and increasing your stats. Taking the economic horror to a meta level so that it impacts the rules is real fun.

>>48718240

You can play any game with any system you want. That doesn't really mean you can play it well, however.

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>>48718700
Yeah, but at least for a certain type of hero, even Masquerade works. Vampions was long a thing.

>>48718621
Well, it's partly based on Dark Souls, partly based on being a silly semi-OSR-but-not game where xp is tokens that you spend at vending machines. In early D&D, your XP was based on how much treasure you looted. Taking xp=gold to the extreme, you buy your level ups and enemies drop money, Scott Pilgrim style.
Do you have a Discord or anything? PM it to me on OPP if you don't want to share (I'm Aspel, obviously)
Better to talk about it elsewhere than in the WoD thread.

Though I do still want to do low fantasy in CofD.

>>48718843

I'm mostly here, there, and on tumblr; trying to skype me is a doomed endeavor.

>>48718843

But even Vampions could have been done better in a game that actually supported that kind of play. That was the root of the entire dust-up around that playstyle. Any system can be made to do anything, but no system can do everything well. Hence, StoryPath is made for action/adventure gaming, something that Storyteller can only do with heavy alterations a la Exalted 3e.

>>48718952
Actually, I think Vampions fit better than what the game actually wanted. That's one of the reasons you still have people arguing that WoD isn't a horror setting. It's too easy to be a cool awesome superhero badass who isn't really threatened by anything.

I'm not saying Storypath isn't a bad thing, by the way. Just that WoD has never really had a problem being about badassness and empowerment or larger than life heroes. In fact, it's arguable that the opposite is true.

>>48718587
To quote the people I play with
"Making something that doesn't improve your character cost XP is a surefire way to make sure it never gets used."

I don't always agree, but the GM for our Deadlands game was willing to gut the XP part of the Fate Chip system in order to get people to actually use their chips in-game.(He did this before it even became an issue, since we hadn't even started playing yet.)

>>48719229
Possibly. But I figure sometimes "spend *xp to not die" is a good use of xp, even if you can't spend it later.

Plus, the idea for that game is that *everything* costs xp. Buying skills, attributes, Talents, but also weapons and equipment.

So, I wanted to get into WoD, so I skimmed over a few rulebooks and that left me completely confused regarding the setting.

So, from what I gathered:
1) There's a God who made Cain first vampire and made the flood
2) If there's a God, he made the world, obviously
3) Selfsame world at the same time is made of Quintessence and shaped by belief of unawakened mortals. Did God make world of Quintessence?
4) When mages do supernatural stuff, world tries to return to what mortals believe and bad things happen to mages
5) However, the world shaped by beliefs of mortals is perfectly fine with vampires, werewolves, demons, and all the other supernatural stuff and doesn't paradox them. What is more, Sorcerers, who use weaker form of Mage's mojo, and understand it as much, don't get paradoxed for altering reality either. What gives?
7) So God made world to be shaped by beliefs of mortals, but made Wyld, Wyrm and Weaver to destroy and renew his creation? So are WWW shaping the world's Quintessence, or they are made of Quintessence themselves and can be possibly manipulated by Mages, or what?
8) Now mortals can become Awakened when they witness Mage reshaping reality. Why don't they become Awakened from seeing Tremere weaving blood magic, or Changeling doing Fey stuff, or Werewolf spirit magics... especially if humans were exposed to werewolves so much the fear of them is in genetic memory?
9) Now about other worlds... I get it there's Abyss which is basically Hell (was it made by God too? is it made by Quintessence? it drives mortals insane and they can't even grasp its true form... is it still shaped by their beliefs? can Mages affect Abyss? Would Vampire or Werewolf go insane from seeing it?), Shadowsomething and Spiritsomething. Are those made from Quintessence and shaped by belief too? And Arcadia? Is it? Can mages go there? Mages' book doesn't mention it.
10) Are hunters mortals or what? Do they shape the world by belief? Do they go insane from seeing Hell?

so confused...

>>48717908
Not if you go by the preview they just released. It has stress boxes and consequences. Yes, they're actually named that.

>>48718540
In theory, at least, all three types of Inspired were balanced. They just get different kinds of powers: luck based powers for Daredevils, "Amazing Feats of Physical Prowess!" for Stalwarts, and low-key psychic abilities for Mesmerists.

It's true that they're the weakest of Continuum parahumans, though. The psions of Trinity can do most of what they do better and can do a lot more stuff, and the Novas from Aberrant eat both of the above for breakfast then burp out the bones.

>>48719542
>So, I wanted to get into WoD, so I skimmed over a few rulebooks and that left me completely confused regarding the setting.
This is why you're better off playing Chronicles of Darkness, or "nWoD 2e".

Also, you're reading Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage. They work better if you ignore the others.

>>48719542
cWoD didn't really have a unified cosmology and didn't give a damn about compatibility between the different lines.

nWoD and CofD (nWoD 2e) are better about at least trying not to directly contradict other lines.

>>48719613
kill yourself.

>>48719613
>>48719629

but it's supposed to be same universe, no? they reference each other, so the continuity and setting should be the same... I just want to make sense of it.

and is CoD universe consistent for all (species? races? whatever)? or it's full contradictions, like this one?

>>48719632
After you.
What are you even getting your undies in a bundle over anyway?

>is CoD universe consistent for all [gamelines]?
More consistent than oWoD, though intentionally inconsistent in little places. It's also more pick-and-choose.

>>48719641
Re-read my post again.

>cWoD didn't really have a unified cosmology

>nWoD and CofD (nWoD 2e) are better about at least trying not to directly contradict other lines.

I answered both questions in the post you're quoting.

>>48719654
>though intentionally inconsistent in little places. It's also more pick-and-choose.
ugh, hate stuff like that. it's like perpetual retcon.

>>48719660
oh, right. well then.

>>48719668

It's not a retcon, it's up to your table to decide.

>>48719668

>it's like perpetual retcon.

You realize that's actually built into BOTH World of Darknesses right?

"So why does this book say one thing but this book say something contradictory?"

"The Paragdim changed."

>>48719629
>>48719660
>>cWoD didn't really have a unified cosmology
It kind of did, though. Different game lines explicitly referenced things from each other. It was just bad at it.

>>48719668
I mean intentional inconsistencies like two groups not understanding something in the same way. The gameline about GHOSTS is going to understand them better than the gameline about being a vampire.

Actually, come to think of it, I can't think of any actual minor inconsistencies, other than the way Hunter handles things (Changeling core also suggests using Changeling to explain supernaturals if you don't want crossover, or just use their mechanics). The closest would be things like the existence or non-existence of things like the God-Machine/Dark Mother/Principle, or even Spirits/ghosts in some chronicles.

Think of it as a game with expansion packs. Each can be played together, but you can still play them separately without missing much.

>>48707754

Why is momentum literally the logical opposite of what momentum should be? It makes no sense to call it that way. Momentum should be something you get when you succeed that allows you to keep succeeding. Something that you get when you fail, that then allows you to succeed is practically reverse momentum. I get that it's a cool sounding word, but couldn't the guys making this shit up put five more minutes into giving their generic system terms sensical names?

>>48719716
oh. okay. gotta read CoD books then and clear my mind of oWoD confusion

>>48719542
I think the general consensus (heh) back in the day was that the world always is and always WAS as shaped by belief. God made the world because people believe that he did, making the fact retroactively true. Maybe in a previous iteration of reality this wasn't the case. Can't really say, since all of our memories of that reality are long gone.

>>48719741
so Werewolves exist BECAUSE humans subconsciously believe in them due to genetic memory phobia that Werewolves caused in the first place?

hm, that's actually pretty cool.

>>48719738
Start with the corebook.

>>48719741
>>48719751
Consensual reality is dumb and full of plotholes.
Mythbusters as a show literally wouldn't work in oWoD. I'm sure they'd be Technocrats, though.

>>48719771
Mythbusters would be awesome if they were ran by Geniuses (yes-yes, i know what people say about that splat, not the point here)

>>48719771

The one thing I don't get about consensual reality is when exacly a paradgim shift occurs.

Like do 51% of a population need to believe something in order for it to be true?

Does it just not exist if nobody's aware of it?

If exactly 50% of the population believe in something with no decimal point then does it become some kind of Schrodingers cat phenominon where it's both simultaneously true and not true at the same time?

When does the shift from "superstition" to "fact" literally occur?

>>48719816
>The one thing
Only the one?
The fact that there can even BE different paradigms is sort of dumb

>>48719771
>I'm sure they'd be Technocrats, though.
That actually sounds EXACTLY like the kind of thing the Technocracy would do. The more people believe reality has unbendable rules, the more solid those rules would be, and the less easy it would be for monsters to bend them.

At the same time, you got the One World Order churning out action films featuring heroes who just so happen to look like their agents pulling off ever so slightly over the top stunts, which said agents are then able to pull off so long as they act like in the movies.

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>Joy
>If a Promethean acting on this Elpis only has ten minutes with someone, she’d better make this the greatest ten minutes of their lives.

https://youtu.be/h3jKd6J36UY?t=813
Skip to 13:30, since 4chan doesn't jump to specific timecodes.
It also doesn't have BBCode, but no one saw that

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What do you get the Tzimisce who has everything?

>>48720736
A stake through the heart.

Does 2E core no longer have rules on fatigue/starvation/thirst?

>>48721427
Figure them out yourself :^)

It's not like enemies can't do to you really scary shit with their single cast already, right? Why even bother about dispel?

S I was browsing onyxpath forums and encountered this quotation of Matt from http://theonyxpath.com/prometheantransmutations/
>When you master three Roles (be they from the Refinement you’re on, or one from three different Refinement), you get access to both of the full Transmutations associated with any Refinement you switch to. So let’s so you’re on Plumbum, master it (all three Roles, go you). You’ve got access to all four Alembics in both Disquietism and Electrification.
>Then you decide you want to get freaky with it, so you switch to Argentum. Now you’ve got access to all four Alembics in Spiritus and Sensorium. It doesn’t matter what Refinement you go to; once you’ve mastered three Roles, you have access to all the powers in that Refinement.
>But that alone won’t make you human.
Am I only one who didn't understand it that way from the text of book? Is the book that badly written or have I problem to understand English text?

>>48722532
That's not what it says in the book. Presumably they changed it. I was actually reading that part just last night.

>>48721427
They probably forgot them, because Iron Stamina merit refers to it. It isn't too surprising, they have forgot mentioning that willpower is regained by sleeping before too.
Bur rules from 1e look like they can be used as they are.

>>48722700
To be fair it's not like all the CofD books don't do that thing I never noticed until some RPG critic pointed out all games do and only has off-hand rules tucked away in the Ambidextrous Merit, to justify the Ambidextrous Merit.

>>48722790
Yeah, So?

>>48722700
Seems like a strange thing to leave out.

>>48722875
They added the willpower from sleep thing back into mage. Apparently everyone just assumed it had been in the core, and since it didn't apply to their splat they didn't bother to add it

>>48722845
He's saying that you can totally use Driven at 3 dots to turn a chance die into an Exceptional Success.

Which, judging by some of the other discussions around here, means he thinks that means he can jump to the moon by counteracting a -1000 penalty.

>>48722875
Core rules are a mess. I blame CCP

>>48722895
>He's saying that you can totally use Driven at 3 dots to turn a chance die into an Exceptional Success.
I'm saying you can just laod up on conditions every session and eliminate failure and boost successes because it's a shittily thought out merit
>Which, judging by some of the other discussions around here, means he thinks that means he can jump to the moon by counteracting a -1000 penalty.
Assume away, but it could lead to counteracting a -1000 penalty
Penalties take away from dice pools, not successes

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>>48722926
>And the outcome is in doubt.
>The outcome is in doubt

Jumping to the moon is impossible. No doubt. Even with 28 000 conditions that say you succeed, there's no doubt that you fail. Shut up now

>>48722970
Divine Guidance means you automatically succeed? When you are magically confirmed to succeed, how can the result be in doubt

>>48718974

WoD has always been very bad at action gaming. The roots of many of Exalted and Scion's problems root from being bound to a system made for street level/horror scenarios being jacked up to fit epic scale . This was true even for Vampions style play.

Sure it could always do that, but there's a difference between doing it and doing it well. The StoryPath team clearly wanted to do the latter, because they understand that they understood this.

>>48722970
You're the one who put a -1000 penalty into the equation, I just posted the conditions available
You can't even correct yourself properly

>>48722790

I'm pretty sure non-persistant conditions can only be used once per scene.

>>48723060
Yup, these resolve after one use each session and give you a beat

>>48722926
>This merit is bad because it can do what it was intended to do
Anon, having Steadfast once a turn does not make you unstoppable. Likewise, as someone either here or the OPP forums pointed out, "I jump to the moon" is not a single discreet action. You can't say "I jump from her to there" and take a penalty, you have to jump and see if you can make it. Your assumption is that you can do anything if you can take a big enough penalty and overcome it. That's not how the game works.

>>48722993
I've actually never felt it was that bad at action gaming, except insofar as action gaming inherently fucks with turn based combat. Also, I'm not saying that the God level is a good fit for WoD, just that people had always been doing *superheroes*.

>>48722984
>>48723000
I'm the one who put a -1000 penalty into the scenario, because someone last thread or so argued that "jump to the moon" was a viable action and that if they could get one success on that action, they'd jump to the moon.
But, again, that's not how the game works. Some things are impossible, whether you can overcome a penalty or not.

As I continually seem to need to point out: The game assumes you--the reader--have basic human competency and don't need to have it spelled out for you how certain things within the game work. "No merit will allow you to jump to the moon" is one of them.

>>48723060
>>48723069
The argument is of course to just use all three at once and say "I roll to win".

>>48723104

new thread boys

>>48723105
>The argument is of course to just use all three at once and say "I roll to win".
I roll to win, what's my penalty*

>>48723105
>Your assumption is that you can do anything if you can take a big enough penalty and overcome it. That's not how the game works.
You assumed the jump to the moon thing, being a reactionary retard
The ability to use steadfast for more realistic rolls is the issue, plus the free beat

>I'm the one who put a -1000 penalty into the scenario, because someone last thread or so argued that "jump to the moon" was a viable action and that if they could get one success on that action, they'd jump to the moon.
But, again, that's not how the game works.
>As I continually seem to need to point out: The game assumes you--the reader--have basic human competency and don't need to have it spelled out for you how certain things within the game work.
Apparently you don't, because you keep bringing up a -1000 penalty for no reason
Kindly eat a dick, we're discussing real issues with the game here and don't need someone who can't comprehend that