/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>48723104
>Do we have any idea who the antagonists in Deviant are?
The people who made you.
You're Alice, from the Resident Evil movies. Umbrella is the antagonist.

That seems like it would make things difficult if you have people who's origin is different, but presumably there are storytelling suggestions for that kind of thing.

>>48723131
Its people who want you too
You can be a self created Deviant

>>48723181
>The ability to use steadfast for more realistic rolls is the issue, plus the free beat
>Kindly eat a dick, we're discussing real issues with the game here and don't need someone who can't comprehend that
You seem to think "literally what an ability is intended to do" is somehow an issue. You also seem to think "the chance to get a success on something" is an "issue" when it's not.

And, of course, in the end there's always the ST to say "no, that's dumb".

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>>48723369
>And, of course, in the end there's always the ST to say "no, that's dumb".
What a retarded fucking argument. Why do we even need rules at all? Just leave it all to the ST.

>>48723369
>You seem to think "literally what an ability is intended to do" is somehow an issue.
Because the dev and writers are clearly bad at mechanics, they don't think things through, like you
>You also seem to think "the chance to get a success on something" is an "issue" when it's not.
It is an issue when it comes with a free beat (or five) per session and can get rid of any chance at failure

>>48723104
Is it just me or does Deviant sound kind of boring?

>>48723590
It's basically low power Demon

>>48723590
I disagree, but why do you think it's boring?

>>48723593
Except, yknow, not at all
It's not about being a matrix-powered secret agent on the run from a hostile god
It's not about being a biomechanical abomination trying to survive against other biomechanical abominations

It's about being a person who got turned into something else, and taking revenge on the people who did it to you.
The only thing it has even slightly in common with Demon is that you technically have a "Go Loud" button, but like DaveB said in his big post repeating stuff from Gen-Con, Deviants can't go back
You turn into a gigantic cathedral of flesh, you're gonna stay a gigantic cathedral of flesh.

>>48723638
It's seems kind of bland and directionless, I guess. I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind once we have more info.

>>48723778
>Bland and directionless
This is exactly what I'm afraid of, especially after Beast.

>>48723683
Thing hiding from, running from and fighting the grand thing that made you

Sounds pretty Demon to me

>>48723821
Geist also had that.

>>48723836
But Geist should be getting that issue worked out on it's 2nd edition. Beast had a Kickstarter, player feedback and everything, and yet the end result was lackluster with little non-crossover direction. Deviant doesn't have cross-over to fall back on, so it is my hope that in doesn't follow in the same footsteps.

>>48723826
You know what else it sounds like?
Changeling
Promethean
Mummy

All three of them have your characters existence be a result of something greater(The Gentry, the Principle, the Judges), and all of them have 'fighting against the thing that made you' as a theme(fighting the Fae/Huntsmen, encounters with Qashmallim mostly, and the path of any Mummy who goes after Apotheosis)

Deviant shares some themespace with other CofD games. It also is doing a lot of entirely new stuff that none of the other games have done before.

>>48723924
ok unnamed Deviant writer

>>48723947
I don't work for Onyx Path
Though I am considering writing something and trying to get in on Deviant

>>48723131
And one assumes not just the people who created you but also other, fucked up deviants who are less in control of their faculties than you. I'd assume that they're going to have a resource that they need a la every single other fucking supernatural and that the less sane of them will still want it.

>>48723553
Any game system is going to have a degree of allowance for potential sillyness because otherwise the system would be oppressively restrictive. It is presumed that the GM/ST/DM will restrict certain possibilities or consider them critically under the context of the game they want to run.
>>48723579
I also really...don't see why guaranteed success(1) is generally a problem. As stated, many, MANY actions aren't based purely on "get on success, do the thing.", and not all rolls can even be done. If a player in my hunter game said "I want to make a roll to ascend to the godhead" I'd just tell them to fuck off. Certain things need more rolls, more successes or more PLOT than just a throw of the die.

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>>48723104
Man, both Deviant and Beast really sound like milking concepts that could've been covered by other games. I guess it's just more marketable to launch brand new lines?

>>48723131

Apparently the ST generates the conspiracy based on the choices the characters make in CharGen. I assume in practice it'll work kind of like the Conspyramid from Night's Black Agents, but it's too early to tell.

>>48724922

It's times like these that I wish we still used "Referee" as the generic term for a GM.

>>48725119
It's not the worst term, but it's a bit of an understatement. They're referee, world builder and NPC king all in one.

>>48725119

There's some novel alternatives out there. Call of Cthulhu's "Keeper of Arcane Lore," Delta Green's "Case Officer," and Red Markets' "The Market" all make me smile.

Is PbtA the one that uses Master of Ceremonies?

>>48724946
Deviant shares space with other lines, but no other line does what Deviant's going to be very well

So Deviant is Akira?

>>48725688
Yeah, PbtA uses Master of Ceremonies/MC

I'm personally a fan of Deadlands's "Marshall", because it fits the setting

>>48725914
Yes
From what I understand of Akira, it's a relatively normal Deviant game up until the last act, when one of the players uses his irrevocable "Go Loud" power.
I've never watched Akira, but from what I understand it's about a group of psychic kids with cool powers doing cool shit, and then the last act starts with one of them(Tetsuo, I think?) exploding into a giant baby-faced thing.

>>48725961

It's not quite that. It's more like the government did a very, very bad thing to a group of children and one teen took advantage of it years later and then blew up.

I had a goofy idea for a claimed made from assorted parts of a city(A stoplight, concrete, wiring, maybe lights and windows). Claimed lose their numina, but get weird dread powers suited to them, yea? How well would something like say a "red light green light" power work, something which when activated pits the claimed against the player in a contested action with the claims success stunning the player until the subsequent turn when the light turns green again

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>>48726238
Power rangers did it first

>>48726221
So, yeah, Deviant as hell

>>48726253
Damn.

>>48726255

Pretty much. I think the most intriguing thing about Deviant so far is Dave's explicit admission that the PC body count in Deviant is going to be higher than most CofD games. It's less Going Loud in Deviant and more Time to Die.

>>48726314
It's "Going Loud and Breaking the Knob Off"

>>48723553
>The ST is the final arbiter and able to disallow things that might ruin the game
Is nowhere in the same Goddamned fucking ballpark as
>the rules don't matter at all and we should all play pretend and say we had a forcefield the whole time
Stop making the argument that they're equivalent. Stop bringing that up whenever someone points out an argument is fucking ignorant dumbass bullshit that exists only in some realm where the PCs get whatever they want all the Goddamned time.

Except, hey, even if you do feel that having those three conditions at the same time and cracking them is some ultimate super scary "issue"... it can only happen once a session at worst.

>>48723579
There are plenty of things that can both come with a free beat and get rid of any chance of failure. Is Inspiring somehow BUH-ROKEN?
The problem is that you don't think things through. You jump to outlandish conclusions where everyone is insane and letting craziness slip through. Did it occur to you that maybe other people don't see such things as problems? That maybe they are cool with the ability to give themselves beneficial Conditions?

Nevermind that if you blow three dots of Driven on the same task, you're basically wasting it? I mean, if you want to push yourself and be Informed, Inspired, and Steadfast to Do The Thing, you better make sure it was a suitably impressive Thing, because now your power points are gone for the session.

>>48724946
You could argue that a lot of the games milk themes of other lines. Promethean is built on isolation and loneliness. I've complained repeatedly before about how Mummy feels like it's taking concepts from Promethean, Mage, and Geist.

>>48726411
>Stop bringing that up whenever someone points out an argument is fucking ignorant dumbass bullshit that exists only in some realm where the PCs get whatever they want all the Goddamned time.
You're the one bringing it up whenever someone points out a retarded rule. If you don't want to be called a fucking idiot, then don't use that idiotic non-argument.

>>48726503
The rule isn't....really that bad, though. Automatic successes are fairly few and far between, and usually they run as "get one free success", which in the system is nice but not completely game breaking.

>>48726503
Even if it is a non-argument, it's being used to dismiss a non-argument.
"This is an issue!"
"But why?"
"Because it can do things that its meant to do!"
"And?"
"That's ~powerful~!"
"Not really..."
"BUT YOU CAN DO THINGS!"
"Okay."
"It's impressive and scary and powerful!"
"Well if it's really that bad then the ST can say no"
"Well I guess we should all make up our own rules and go bang bang I hit you, nuh uh, yuh huh!"

It's an asinine argument. "The ST can put her foot down" isn't even the crux of my argument in the first place. the crux of my argument is "do you even know how this game works, why would you think that's a big deal?"

Shit, we're not even talking about taking huge penalties on ~magic~ and then getting an assured success.

>>48726874
Doesn't steadfast literally only work on resistance rolls, though?

Is there a decent intro video on youtube? (that's newfag friendly?)
Never played a pen and paper game before, but man, the world these books paint is pretty fucking awesome.
Thinking about dragging a couple friends into this once I have a better understanding of the storytelling.

>>48727011
there might be, though you'd probably be best off finding someone who is willing to take you through the setting and answer your questions personally. I got introduced to the setting through a friend who's a huge fan of it, and once you've got a baseline of understanding it's pretty simple to thumb through the books and look for the sections that detail the info(be it mechanical or lore related) that you want

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>>48726874

So did the stuff that got released about deviant at the con ever get posted?

So what do you actually *do* in a changeling game?

>>48727189
You make the same argument every time you pop up. It's a stupid argument. Explain why it's a problem

>>48727009
>>48727011
No.
To both of you. Steadfast is any roll, and the Gentleman Gamer would be the closest, but most of his stuff is oWoD, and it's all fluff, no explanation of crunch or anything.

>>48727251
cut yourself and cry

I'm still looking for suggestion for the Samedi bane and boon. In the meanwhile, I've worked a bit on the daywalkers. They are supposed to be weak, and I can't help but think they're somehowe overpowered.
Sternberg (Thin-bloods, Daywalkers)
Clan: Ventrue
Bloodline Disciplines: Animalism, Dominate, Resilience
Boon: Sunlight is but a minor inconvenience for the Sternberg. They take only 2 points of bashing damage from sunlight per hour, and a -1 to all Mental and vision-related rolls caused by their photophobia-induced migraines. They do not suffer the cumulative -1 to all actions caused by the Lethargic condition, but its other effects still apply, and they may never spend Vitae to use Disciplines during day time.
Weaknesses: In addition to the Aloof Curse, all Daywalkers suffer from two banes, both derived from their weak blood. All have the Open Wounds Bane, which counts toward the three banes a vampire is allowed, and they may never raise their Blood Potency above 2 without diablerie.

>>48723593
It sounded like changeling to me. I mean 'captured by bad guys, escaped, have super powers, fight them' fits changeling more than demon, if for no other reason then demons were never captured per se, just made

>>48727259
Mm...it could potentially be a problem, if it applies to any failed roll. But even then, it's not exactly a common condition. Though I will admit, it's quite powerful, especially for a potential mind mage who just uses magic to apply it to himself.

>>48727287
Tell me about these Clans? The Samedi, too, I haven't really paid attention to them, but I'm bored and want to homebrew.

>>48727251

In my chronicle? Engage in heavy politics fueled by paranoia and survivor's guilt, interact with a dangerous world of magic that is full of wonders but threatens to consume you, throw everything you have at not getting dragged back into hell, and try to figure out what to do in a world that doesn't know it's lost you.

A Changeling chronicle can have equal parts wandering another world in search of fae relics, ensnaring mortals into pacts that empower you, and trying to figure out what to do about the doppelganger that sleeps with your husband and watches your daughter play soccer.

>>48727326
Sure! The Sternberg are my OCdonutsteal. They have weak blood since they exclusively embraced from a single family. The Samedi (seen here >>48710382) are a reworking of the Vtm bloodline of necromancers. I'm also working on a Gangrel bloodline and pseudo-Sabbat/less crazy Belial's brood.

>>48727086
>>48727259
I mean, if it's just me and a couple friends, as long as I have a basic understanding of the rules, we should still have a good time right? (I guess that really depends on how well I can tell the story.)
Maybe I should see if anyone at my local comic shop plays, they have D&D nights there.

>>48727287
>>48727482
>They have weak blood since they exclusively embraced from a single family

>Boon: Sunlight is but a minor inconvenience for the Sternberg. They take only 2 points of bashing damage from sunlight per hour, and a -1 to all Mental and vision-related rolls caused by their photophobia-induced migraines. They do not suffer the cumulative -1 to all actions caused by the Lethargic condition, but its other effects still apply, and they may never spend Vitae to use Disciplines during day time.
I'm too lazy to look it up, but even in 2e, your dicepools during the day are capped by Humanity, so penalties and the like are unnecessary; they'll already be penalized.
>Weaknesses: In addition to the Aloof Curse, all Daywalkers suffer from two banes, both derived from their weak blood. All have the Open Wounds Bane, which counts toward the three banes a vampire is allowed, and they may never raise their Blood Potency above 2 without diablerie.
I don't remember what Open Wounds does, but I'd suggest having their Vitae pool capped at 10-Humanity instead, and say that they can only raise Blood Potency with Blood Experiences.

Alternately, make them more like a Clan, like the Jiangshi. I've actually been meaning to make a Caitiff clan, because that's one of the concepts from oWoD that I like. Well. Maybe it's more the concept of Thinbloods. I don't like "My sire didn't stick around, so I don't have a clan".

>>48727697
Probably, yeah. I mean, look around and you'll find examples of other people playing. Look up livestreams of D&D or shit.

>>48727194
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/608073-deviant-the-subtitle-discussion?p=946593#post946593

How long is it gonna take until we get a physical copy of Mage 2e? How long did it take for Beast to get one? Have they done this advanced PDF thing before?
I need it

>>48727928
>Have they done this advanced PDF thing before?
Literally every time they release something.

>>48727959
As you can probably tell, I am very out of the loop, thanks for letting me know. How long does it usually take for them to go physical?

>>48727745
>your dicepools during the day are capped by Humanity
I've checked, and I found nothing about that. The lethargic condition gives you a -1 for each six hours you stay awake and forbids you from using willpower.

>Open wounds
Open wounds prevents vampires from closing their wounds before sleeping. It has no real mechanical malus other than looking messed up, but it's a still counted as a bane for all other purposes. I'm not sure about Vitae being limited by 10-humanity, it seems too low, and about making them into a clan. I can see some merit in it, though.

What would the Caitiff bane be? Only +1 while spending Vitae to enhance attributes and no vinculum?

>>48728090
>malus
The word "penalty" exists, you know.

>>48728090
Well, make it so that their dicepools are capped by Humanity when they're awake!

As for Caitiff/Thinblood, I was going to essentially make them Clanless vampires who have BP 0. Basically just Ghouls+, or non-crazy Revenants. They'd probably lose a few benefits of being a vampire, like having dead flesh.
Actually, that basically is just a Ghoul that can make it's own Vitae.

>>48728124
I know. I just like the word.
>>48728209
Good point. I'll do that.

So they'll be able to walk in the sun, take normal damage from fire and weapons etc.? Interesting. Keep us posted!

Promethean existential crises
https://youtu.be/GxM9BZeRrUI

Has anyone here done extensive trips into the Oneiros, or Dreamspace? Generally how surreal do you get? Or do you try and keep things more rational or at least metaphorical/allegorical?

I've done short trips into the Oneiros before, I absolutely love the aspect of jumping between scenes in ways which you think would lead to related scenes, chaining to your final destination, also modifying scenes to elicit different reactions and draw out extra information, and change what the scene will connect to.

But I'm just wondering if people have any suggestions? The Astral is (or should be) a big part of Mage, and I really want to make it useful and interesting to the players as more than a covert meeting point. So they'll want to keep going back.

Even if that just means a bumper crop of Beats.

Huh. Mummies only suffer Disquiet if their Cult does.
Also, Sin-eaters suffer Disquiet normally. Didn't Book of the Dead say otherwise? I think I remember a plot hook about a Promethean who was stuck in the Underworld and the ghosts hated him not because of Disquiet, but because of the Wasteland forming.

>>48728043
If by "go physical" you mean "release them and have them on shelves in games stores" the answer is "Never"
You can buy a PoD copy, but that isn't gonna be done for another week, or so, probably.

>>48723104
So I ran the first session of my V:DA game for my group last night. It's two people who have never played OWoD before and have no knowledge of the metaplot. I'm using the first book of the Giovanni Chronicles but trying to make it less edgy retarded. All I know is that they are having a blast.

Is this the work of the God-Machine?

http://www.darkestdungeon.com/topic/aliens-will-kill-everything2032/

>>48730717
This is why the Invictus has an easy job
Because nutjobs like this guy post dumb stuff and discredit the idea that there is any sapient life on this planet besides mortal man
It's probably the work of the God-MachineThis is concealment infrastructure

So, who else is hyped for Deviant, even if it isn't coming out for at least half a year?

>>48733211
mite be cool
Kind of worried they are running out of horror tropes now though. Whats next? Aliens?

>>48733333
i'd be ok with aliens.

>>48733333
>>48733407

A part of me wonders if we'd just end up getting something like The Alien Chronicle instead.

So anyone used drive thru rpg print on demand service? How is it? Im thinking about getting a copy of requiem

>>48733333

I liked that idea for Furies that one dev (was it David?) floated, about playing servants of Fate chosen to right the scales.

>>48733819
Only you would

>>48733831

???

>>48733874
From what I remember it was a pretty shitty idea (and I wanted to dig at you because cheap shot)

So apparently if you complete 10 Refinements, you *can* keep one Alembic, but only if you give up "remembering" your previous human life to instead remember being a Promethean. In some ways that seems like a cheat. In others it's neat, and keeps you from giving up your real past. I don't like how it's an either/or choice, though.
Personally, I liked the way that Athanors worked previously, I just wish they'd been developed, instead of being changed. I liked the idea of setting yourself up in mortal life with abilities that would make sure you enjoyed it, and helped determine what kind of mortal you'd be.

>>48733831
He's never really seemed very "bullies must die".
>>48733895
Eh. It was eh. It would have more or less been Beast. Less interesting Beast, without some additions, since it had no Horror fluff making, or Lairs.

>>48724922
The one success thing is a problem because difficulties are supposed to be represented by penalties, not success thresholds and for most powers in 2e (especially spells) they spell out that you only need one success to activate it and get the desired effect. Getting an exceptional is just icing on the cake. Steadfast doesn't work on contested rolls though and it's not very good on extended ones, but the argument started around spells, which use neither of those mechanics.

The reason the debs won't "fix" it is that the group is responsible for setting their own expectations of enjoyment. This lends itself poorly to pickup groups or referee play (or whiterooms and algorithmic approaches), but its alright for telling a story and cooperating towards that end. RPG groups tend to be self selecting, with argumentative people either wising up or getting filtered out.

Would it be a decent house rule to have snipers use perception+firearms as opposed to dexterity?

>>48733333
WITNESSED

>>48734178
It's worth noting that technically you'd be getting an Exceptional with 1 success, so the actual use of it is pretty limited. You're also blowing three uses on one action. I'm not actually sure why Steadfast wouldn't work on Contests. It's just not very use*ful* in Contests.

Really the issue is that getting an automatic success and treating it as an exceptional isn't a big deal. Hell, it's barely a big deal in Mage, just slightly more of a big deal. But, like you said, every troupe is different, and some troupes are going to allow things that others won't.

>>48733607

I've used it for a variety of sizes, b&w, soft and hardcover. Its turned out well for me; no problems.

>>48734504
I'd use Composure+Firearms.

>>48729406
I meant the latter, not the former. Thanks for the time window

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What's a good custom Bestowment for an Extempore made from a Vocaloid?

Actually, even though the idea was an Extempore, they seem like they're kind of way too annoying to actually play.

This was my original idea
>Bestowment: Augmented Reality
>777ツ can see the digital reality that interacts with our own, visualizing code and information as it flows through the air. She can see and understand (unencrypted) information like television or wireless signals. By spending a point of Pyros she can roll Manipulation + Computers to interact with that code, as if she was using a computer. When she does, the time between rolls is cut to instant.
I don't really think it fits. Maybe I should go with something related to music, or holograms.

>>48736563
Relevant
https://youtu.be/39EdqUbj92U

Yo imma copy paste a thing for some more advice.

I'm looking to start an alternate-history Vampire: The Masquerade game that takes place around Vlad the Impaler time.

The core concept is that there are super few vampires in the world (1000 known not sure if that's too low w/ population proportions and the such) but they still all hate each other. The low population and the super-powerful nature of vampires in this era means that anyone who gets to be in one of the clans is an important player in some respect and so can call upon the various resources of the clan.

The players will be part of a new-fangled idea called a "coterie" to act as trouble-shooters for things that are a threat to kindred as a whole and/or too sensitive for bullshit reasons for one clan to handle.

I'm looking to give the players clan-related "resources" (in the form of agents and other such things) for them to call upon to help accomplish the main mission along with secret missions that they aren't supposed to have . Unfortunately, I'm drawing blanks. Any suggestions?

>>48737259
You should check out the Dark Ages line.

>>48737265

Yeah unfortunately those were not in the big Humble Bundle where I got my other books.

There was definitely a big "CURSES" moment when I found out those existed.

>>48733333
Ivw the beginings of some ideas for a kaiju splat, but in terribly lazy and not likely to ever develop them.

>>48737259
Im sort of trying the same but mostly just going with something more along the lines of the tremere diablerising the tzimisce out of existence instead of salubri. The only issue is I'm not sure weather I'd make vicisisitude a discipline or a thaumaturgy path.

Additionally the Giovanni had a clan wide bloodhunt declared on them when it was discovered they genocided the Cappadocians on the grounds that if they did it to one clan what's stopping them from doing it again.so the Giovanni are a small bloodline operating in secret out of Italy and Chicago

>>48737321
If you're willing to go there, there's the old Leviathan: The Tempest (and the new version, but that one isn't close to half made).

Reading the Pack now so, is there any reason for _not_ taking the Werewolf Hunting Nature?

While playing werewolf, is there any reason to use glabro form whatsoever

>>48739860
>what is: the vast majority of fights a werewolf will actually get into

>>48739860
>Glabro

>>48739875
The answer is Crinos

>>48739881
WHAT

>>48739907
>tarding out into warform mode for a bar brawl
>pack lasting more than 1 week before you all get put down by less idiotic wolves

Pick one.

>>48739922
>getting into bar fights
>getting into fights with humans


Why the fuck do you have to phrase your answer in such an insulting manner?

>>48739922
This. Crinos is for balls to the wall, hardcore combat situations against the supernatural. Or for a bunch of kids playing the game wrong.

>>48739960
That's the only kind of combat we have

Why the fuck would you get into a bar brawl to begin with

>doing anything to call the police attention

Nigger what are you doing

>>48739598
It might be hard to maintain?
Same reason one might not always be in 6-4 Harmony.

>>48739598
What are the benefits?
Also, how do the mechanics work? I don't really get them from reading it.

So.. if I'm reading stuff right here. You need 5 successes on 5 dice to get Werewolf nature? That simply doesn't happen.

>>48740107
Being unbalanced towards human means you need to practice and buy Pack Tactics (basically Tactics from Hunter but applied to Uratha).
Being unbalanced towards the Wolf means you can improvise tactics at no costs, but only rudimentary ones (max 3 dots)
Being balanced at Werewolf means you can buy high-level tactics and improvise low-level ones

>>48740151
>>48740107
How many dice can one get?
Here (>>48740143) I assumed it's like the Harmony track, with just 5 steps out, but.. is it further?

>>48739960
The fuck is Crinos? Is it in The Pack?

>>48741868
Werewolf: The Apocalypse equivalent of Gauru form
Glabro is the WtA equivalent of Dalu

>>48741899

God I love Werewolf's nonsense talk so much.

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>>48741977
>Werewolf nonsense

>>48741977
Personally I like how WtF at least puts some effort into having the nonsense talk make some sense.
Urshul and Urhan, being the most wolf-like forms, have the same First Tongue prefix as Urfarah; Ur is therefore First Tongue for Wolf, and Farah means Father

>>48742351
How does shit like this make it into a book about being a werewolf and hunting spirits?

>>48742557
are you new to world of darkness

>>48742557
>OPP HQ
>We're not progressive enough
>Add some Xie, Zie, and manpreg
>Much better

>>48742557
Because Werewolves do more than only hunt spirits and be werewolves?
Shapeshifting is literally a part of Werew--I mean, it says it right there.

>>48742628
The game has pregnancy conditions. MAKIN' A PACK* is one of the themes.

*I'm euphemistically referring to fuckin'

>>48742557
>>48742615
>>48742628
>>48742351

>You can't even talk about how much you appreciate Werewolf's lingo without someone bringing up politics

God I hate this internet culture war. You people can't even shoot each other and get it over with.

>>48742695
>appreciate
O-oh, you were serious? I mean, I like nWoD's terms, but "Glabbro" has always struck me as silly, and I have no idea how "Crinos" relates to Werewolves.

>>48742749

I'm that kind of person who really, really likes the silly obscure lingo in White Wolf games. From a gameplay perspective it's never the best idea, but it's got its own kind of goofy charm.

>>48742628
Reminder that mpreg, in various forms via various splats, has been in nWoD since VtR 1e. It has nothing to do with ~*progressives*~ and more to do with someone at WW/OP's fetish, since it gets into every core book for every monster now.

Could you tell me anons: does claimed beings suffer from bane in 2nd edition? If yes, does it end open condition ergo claimed condition? Haven't found answer in nwod and wtf books

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>mfw Tales of the Dark Eras

Are we seriously getting a new fiction piece? Anthology, to boot.

>>48743423
What's the problem?

>>48743158
Yes, claimed suffer from their entities ban and bane. Does it end open- Probably not, due to the fact that they no longer "care" about open conditions.

I had an idea that I want to use in an original vampire story, and that I feel might be applicable to a WoD one as well. I tentatively call it the Blood Pact. It's a magical contract between a vampire and a mortal that makes the mortal's blood far, far more nourishing to the vampire, but then, the vampire can't allow the mortal to come to any deliberate harm from anyone, or the pact is broken.

>>48743158
You can never become UnClaimed.

>>48743442
It's just a weird choice of content to release at this point when they're in the middle of a new game line and 2Es.

>>48743423

It's been out to backers and is pretty good. The Mage story was my favorite of the bunch.

>>48744156
How is that weird?
They've got a fiction anthology for every game.

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>>48744161
How does it stack up compared to Three Shades of Night or Requiem novels if you read those?

>>48744161
Link?

>>48744161
Was the mage one set in the pre-historic setting?

>>48744339
someone will post it soon. it's available for public purchase.

>>48744246

The only fiction from OPP I've read is Demon: Interface and all the Mummy stuff.

>>48744552

No, the Greek one. It didn't have an Awakened protagonist, which made it especially interesting.

>>48744618
>No, the Greek one. It didn't have an Awakened protagonist, which made it especially interesting.

I honestly found it boring and fragmented.

>>48744618
Whaaaaat. They didn't do a story in the actual best setting they ever came up with?

Wth OP?

>>48744908

The Hellenistic setting was my favorite in the book, and it sold me on Mage after hating it for a decade.

I want to diablerize a cute Assamite!

>>48745172
>Go directly to hell
>Do not pass Go

>>48745172
>Masquerade

What monsters are left for new gamelines?

>>48745634
None.

Deviant doesn't even look like a new enough monster.

>>48745634

People have wanted a Djinn game for ages, and while it seems pretty well covered (Changeling and Demon handle the pacts, Mummy has the servant aspect) I'd still be curious about seeing it done in a new way.

Inferno getting a full game might be nice, they could always do one about a new type of Angel, Dragons and Leviathans are on the table if you borrow from fangames, and then of course there's always zombies. Whatever comes next, I wouldn't mind if it broke away from Beast and Deviant's "build your own" aspect in favor of a stronger core archetype again.

All that said, it could be nice to cool it on new lines for a while and work on giving all 11 (!!!!) games some supplements. Dark Eras taking the spot of a new game was a brilliant move in my eyes.

>>48745634

None. If OPP moves forward, it's going to be with stuff like Dark Eras and The Crossover Chronicle: major line-like things that work with the games that are already out.

Then, in about five or six years, we get New Chronicles of Darkness or something.

>>48744161
Does it have a Demon story? How is it?

>>48745730

Is the dragon fangame any good? This is the first I've heard of it.

>>48745901
I wouldn't call any fan-game especially good. Your mileage may vary, of course. Even the much lauded Genius is a mess.

>>48746149
Genius is the worst of them. Not because of any level of quality, but because people don't shut up about it (relative to the other fan-games).

That is to say, Genius has the worst fans.

>>48745901

The only fangame I've ever read was Leviathan and I liked it well enough.

>>48745634
I was going to make a Succubus/Incubus homebrew at some point.

But in the end, I gave up on it. I just couldn't wedge enough space in the cosmos to make it make sense.

>>48746312

My boyfriend actually did a pretty interesting Incubus fangame, though it doesn't bother trying to fit into the wider cosmology.

>>48746430
If I can't fit into the cosmology, I'm not playing CofD. I may as well be a complete gay, and play WoD or something.

>>48746179
Probably because it's the most complete of fangames and has, regrettably, one of the more interesting concepts. The execution is awful, however.

The other problem with fangames is that it seems like there's less and less open ground to plant your idea in. The current lines pretty well cover most archetypal oogie-boogies and spookums. Like, for example, parasites and infections have come up before as concept. I even bandied about an idea that had them drawing and granting power based upon the parasites hosting in a certain part or area of the body - which means they had access to a certain chakra point as well. But bio/body horror is pretty well covered by Promethean and probably Deviant.

>>48746490

Nothing says your game has to fit; some of the canon ones don't. Just look to the Divine Fire in Promethean, the weird treatment of Twilight in Mummy, or the God-Machine as a whole.

Only Mage fans care about a unified cosmology, and even then they usually have to pull the Lower Depths card to make half the things fit somewhere.

>>48746534
Hey, I don't even like Mage, and I care.

I don't care about a 'Perfect Cosmology', but I care that it generally holds together. In that, X goes to X, and Y lives in Y, and Z interacts with Z.

The borders where they touch each other, or the fact that they don't touch in certain places, are interesting to me, and central to a lot of my chronicles.

Because it is fun to see a bunch of Z who think they are the bees knees realize they aren't all that impressive when they are put up against X.

>>48745901
>>48746149
>>48746179
>>48746265
Fangames are, by and large, half-finished garbage. To my knowledge, the only two of them that are at all playable are Princess and Genius. Neither of them would really fit in the typical World of Darkness setting, but at least Princess actually tries to match the tone. Genius on the other hand is made by someone who barely understands the game but hated Awakening for not just being Ascension 2.0 focusing on the Technocracy. Princess on the other hand is based on some of the more modern takes on the Magical Girl genre, like Madoka and Nanoha and the Sailor Nothing web-story. It doesn't have the same historicity of a Universal Pictures Monster, but they at least make it fit tonally with a world where darkness and evil are real palpable things and good and hope are likewise powerful forces that grant determination. Genius on the other hand is about punching moon nazis and riding robot dinosaurs in the hollow earth. It is the epitome of "if you don't like the game, play something different", because it keeps next to nothing from the World of Darkness other than the core mechanics. Yes, it's possible to play a depressing, existential game of Genius with deeply Humanist and thought provoking themes. But almost everything I've seen and heard of the game seems to imply it really just wants to be a game about playing the Technocracy in nWoD.

That aside, both Princess and Genius are fully fleshed out games with organizations and character types and antagonistic forces that can trouble your characters and give rise to conflict. The same can't be said of other games...

Continued from >>48746665

>>48746490
>>48746518
>>48746534
>>48746660
>>48746665
Leviathan, Dragon, et al are utterly garbage, unfinished, and barely have any focus or cohesion. They start with "let's make a game about playing *this* type of monster" and barely go anywhere else with it. I can't make heads or tales of just what you're supposed to DO in them, other than exist and get kool powers. They feel like half-templates that someone felt like making a gameline out of, but couldn't actually think of what to do to make them unique gamelines.

This is, unfortunately, where Beast lies, as far as I'm concerned, and possibly even Geist. It's fleshed out beyond what a fan game could be, and it has polish (well. Beast had polish. I suppose by 1e standards, Geist did, too), but it's an unfocused mess with no *setting*. Most fan games are worse than that.

Even Princess and Genius, coherent and finished as they are, have clunky mechanics that work as they're intended to and are playable. Everything else, though, barely has that. There are mechanics that outright don't work, or just add nothing of importance to the game. Why do Leviathans need seven Goddamned forms, for instance? Not to mention how the themes are limited, like again, how Leviathan is tied to being an ancient deep sea creature. Here's where I say Genius is worse than Princess as well, since "Magical Girl" is a rather diverse character type, while "mad Genius" requires you to focus on one thing (mental attributes; and also being insane).

All in all, I don't hate fan games in theory, but fuck me most of them are ass, and even the good ones are unpolished.

Every time I see people wanting to make a fan game, I just think about Psychic and Paladin and Chuuni and all the other forgotten games people have tried to make.

>>48746430
>My boyfriend
I didn't know you were actually openly queer, or even in a relationship.

>>48746736

>Paladin

Man, watching people build that was sad, because I knew exactly how that was going to end from the get go. It could have been worse, it could have forked into two incomplete projects like Princess.

>>48746829
Princess is complete and playable as far as I'm aware. I've even seen people play it. I mean, there's not 100% equal spread of Invocations among the Charms, but it's still completely playable. It has X-splats, Y-splats, Z-splats (though that's where it breaks down), monster antagonists, player character style antagonist factions; it even has a demisplat. It even has a supplement that presents an alternate non-antagonist version of the Twilight Courts.

I don't know what the fork was over, or if the Vocation version is as complete as the Dream Version, though.

>>48746736

Believe me, I sympathize. I put months into helping with Outsider: the Calling only to have that fizzle. Deviant seems to occupy some of the same conceptual space, thankfully.

>>48746753
I've had a boyfriend for two years, that's no secret; we met through being fans of VtM and CtL. As for gender stuff, who fucking knows.

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>>48747035
I want to make a homebrew, actually. But it would be something for a fantasy WoD hack, and based on being adventurers in an Elder Scrolls feeling world, with a bit of Magic: The Gathering in the form of guilds. And now that I've played Dark Souls, probably a bit of that as well. A gritty dark fantasy game using the CofD mechanics and some of the setting stuff (Underworld, Twilight, Spirits, Ghosts, etcetera).

I'm always hesitant to work on it because I know that no one would ever play it, least of all myself.

>>48747338
That's sort of what happened with mine. I occasionally think of stuff and throw it on the pile. But why bother when no one would actually use it?

I require validation dangit!

>>48746928

It seems to have been over RPGnet drama. Either way, even as complete as one version may be, it doesn't really stop it from being a really boring game. That seems to be the problem with these fan games: they're either based on cool ideas and incomplete, or fully fleshed out and dull as dirt.

>>48747472
It didn't seem boring to me. I mean, I was really impressed by it.

>>48745634
I don't think they have many left short of trying to make something kinda new to pull some weird stuff, like something based on a mix between the Terracotta army and the slaves buried with Pharohs to assist them in the afterlife.

>>48747610
Isn't that mummy?

So in vtm if a caitiff embraces does the new vampire get a random set of disciplines or do they get the sires disciplines?

>>48747610
>something based on a mix between the Terracotta army and the slaves buried with Pharohs to assist them in the afterlife

Tammuz or Unfleshed Prometheans, Mummy with pretty bad Memory, or maybe a "Ushabti" Bloodline for Vampire if you wanted to make one.

>>48747651
I'd say that they might have a 50/50 chance to even remain a caitiff, if the sire caitiff is originally from a clan. If it is from a line of Caitiffs, then maybe one discipline should be different.

>>48747514

That's the ultimate problem with it. It's got some nice presentation and even some decent set up and writing, but actually playing it is a bit boring and unsatisfying once the novelty fades away. Genius suffers from the same kind of deal, they're both games that are meant for reading than for playing.

>>48747888
I don't really see that, though. I mean, I'm not sure what you don't like about it. It's a fully formed, if unpolished, playable game. Really, it's what a fan splat should be, in my mind.

I have a question. In Masquerade, is it possible for a human to, say, 'steal' an Embrace by eating a mouthful of flesh (and vitae) while being drained? Or does the intent to Embrace need to be there?

>>48748389

The potential sire must intend to Embrace someone.

>>48748389
>>48748422
Something like that's more likely to create a Revenant, than anything, isn't it?

>>48748389
>>48748521
That would be possible in VtR 2e, but not Masquerade.

>>48748422
>>48748527
Interesting, thanks. I got the idea from some Buffy comic, I can't remember the name.

>>48748422
sauce?


i've seen it run both ways.

>>48748389
Could theoretically happen in Requiem though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NytGzDhMnA0
Abyssal Incursion?
Or just Mind/Life shenanigans?

>>48749142
Active Life Mage-sight witnessing the after effects of a Nimbus flare.

Spell design question. I want a spell that allows the caster to borrow skills from someone they have a strong connection with for the duration of the spell.

For example if your spouse is a pilot and you need to safely land an aircraft you can use their connection to piloting to give you the needed skill.

I'm thinking Space ••••, Sympathetic Range Attainment, Plus an Additional mana.

Thoughts?

>>48748422
That's too bad.

>>48749436
Space doesn't let you borrow skills from people, or even directly improve your own skills, as far as I'm aware
That's more of a Mind 3 thing, with Sympathetic Range

>>48747934

It's fully formed, but that's only half the work. The other part of it is that it should be fun or exciting to play. Princess just doesn't pass that test.

>>48749673
You keep saying that, but you're not really telling me *why* it isn't exciting to play. It's basically Hunter meets Sailor Moon. I for one am interested in that.

>>48749717
I think he's referring more to the powers. You can make anything work. But princess is kind of shit in that department which is in my opinion is just as important as story and plot. I had that issue with Changeling because most powers were shit and I didn't feel like I was playing a fae creature I felt more like a human that was oddly shaped.

How specific should specialties be
if I have Occult and take Spirits as a specialty, is that too general? Should I only specialize on a type of Spirit?

So Supress Life no longer puts people in comas. But is there a practice I can do this with Death? Something that fights stamina Whitstand?

So is Deviant coming out this year?

>>48750492
Iunno. I don't see anything wrong with it. Hell, Kensai and Barrier Jacket are more than enough for me. I know a friend who loves Princess is *obsessed* with telling everyone what her Mirror can do.

>>48750516
nah, u gud.

>>48750552
That was the best tactic. You could always add a Reach or do it at a higher level if your ST allows. Or maybe add a bit of Life, to paralyze them? Though that'd probably be a combined spell.

Also, I can never tell whether the "X Arcanum dots: Add another effect" spells require a Reach or not or if they're spell-specific Attainments.

>>48750583
Maybe. Probably not. We'll probably get a Kickstarter in November or December.

>>48750583
No, it's coming out sometime 2017.

>>48750647
No. They SAY it is coming out sometime 2017.
It IS coming out sometime late 2018.

>>48743881
You can. The claimed can just give up the claim, but it takes a while.

>>48750516
Spirit is probably fine. Generally you should try to keep it narrow enough that it won't apply to all rolls but not so narrow that it will never come up. A player of mine took Liberian Animism and while I should have probably told him to shorten it, I've just let it apply to animism rolls in general(typically spirit stuff) so as to not let it NEVER come into play.

how do you determine base potency of a spell?

>>48751014
Primary factor is listed in the spell, always either potency or duration.

i it's Duration, then your base potency is 1.

If it;s Potency, then your base = your dots in the primary arcana

>>48742628
> not liking mpreg regardless of what you think of made-up pronouns
Deviants like you should be forbidden from visiting the internet.

>>48751034
wait I thought it was Arcanum dots-1

>>48751014
Base Potency is 1.
You then get free Primary Spell Factor increases equal to [Arcanum-1]. This means that until we see whatever mechanic Dave has tucked away in Signs of Sorcery that requires such a specific way of doing it, most spells with Potency Primary will have a default Potency of [Arcanum dots].

>>48751055
You get basic of 1, figure out your dicepool penalty based on how many extra potency you want, then optionally you get the remaining arcarnum-1 (the original base 1) as a top up if you want them.

So it works out as base potency = arcarnum dots, you just get it at two different points in the spell calculation

quick, post your fursona

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>>48730332
Sounds pretty interesting.

>It's two people who have never played OWoD before and have no knowledge of the metaplot.

Hmm... and what's your plan?
Will you use some elements of the metaplot?
If yes: what parts?

Tell us more about your game!

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>>48751243

So, what do you think about Biting Aura in Promethean?
It's like ultimate supernatural pest removal power. With high Azoth you turn it on and in like single minute you eradicate every member of given splat in the city who can't manage to get out fast enough. And the poor sods won't even know what hit them.
#PrometheansOP #NerfThis
They didn't really thought this one out, did they? Should have been like Azoth*5 or 10 yards.

Of course that's only in case the power can actually be used, because it doesn't have any dice pool.

>>48751895
>Any supernatural creature of the appropriate type within the Promethean’s reach suffers one point of lethal damage per turn.

> within the Promethean’s reach

How does that translate to city?

>>48751980
It's a big promethean

>>48734541
Speaking of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YtGaba6rR4

>>48751895
>Any supernatural creature of the appropriate type within the Promethean’s reach suffers one point of lethal damage per turn.
>within the Promethean's reach
I don't think it's the entire area of Radiance. Although 2e *really* loves its huge painful area of effect damage per turn abilities. An Earthquake would kill most things if you use the Tilt rules. Even a burning building is basically instant death.

Also, by the time you're able to eradicate every member of a given splat in the city, you'd still be covering most of a football field.

I don't really think powers based on Azoth rating are as amazing as they sound anyway; Prometheans can willingly shrink their Azoth, and while you want it high for some things on the Pilgrimage, there are also a *lot* of reasons to suppress it or store it in a Hovel.

>>48751980
I assume he thinks that because it infuses their Azothic Radiance that it's the ENTIRE Azothic Radiance, and at 7+ that covers an entire city (while even at 3+ it's a city block).

But you can't even do things like take Measure without seeing someone unless you're using Saturninus.

>>48745266
>>Go directly to hell
>>Do not pass Go
>Do not refill your Vitae pool.

>>48723104
> haven't seen what's new with WoD, let's look at Prom 2e, it was promising last I heard
> made-up pronouns
Nnnnope.

>>48752066
GTFO CIS SCUM

>>48747698
I'd base them on the their origin from Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, so a bit of column A and bit of column B (even if Sekhem and Azoth don't mix well, it would still be cool idea.)

>>48752086
Fuck off with your false dichotomy of tumblr and /pol/, /pol/.

>>48752036
Banemethean Extempore created in a plane crash?

>>48752098
FUCKING TRIGGERED

This was supposed to be a FUCKING SAFE SPACE

DELETE THIS

>>48752104
If you keep this up I'll throw a fish at you through the internet, you know that, right?

>>48752103
> an Extempore created by Baneposting
I hate Promethean and I'm going to play just for this concept. Now the question's to find anyone who wants to play fucking Promethean.

>>48752066
>>48752098
>Fuck off with your false dichotomy of tumblr and /pol/, /pol/.
You literally just had a kneejerk reaction to "made up pronouns".

>>48752122
>>48752103
I want you all to die. Even the people not involved.

>>48752346
> You literally just had a kneejerk reaction to "made up pronouns".
Because they are ridiculous. You don't need to be a clueless reactionary to see that seriously using made-up pronouns are a sure sign of an hopeless idiot.

>>48752043
Well I obviously understood it as reach of Azothic Radiance.
Although I guess it's possible the reach might be arm's length or how far can Promethean go in one turn or maybe even naked eye view distance. But should be specified and not just "infuse Azothic Radiance" and "within reach".

I agree with the high Azoth being generally undesirable, but that doesn't mean that high Azoth should have game breaking effect in other situations.

The Measure distance it's generally shorter than Radiance; I wouldn't really draw conclusions from that.

>>48752403
Um, that doesn't actually explain anything. You're making an assertion with no actual argument.

>>48750620
If a combined cast of another spell in the same Arcanum could accomplish the same thing I say it's a reach.

Multiple arcana should always have greater versatility than reach effects.

>>48752403
I hate made up pronouns with a burning passion too, friend, but I saw past them and appreciated Promethean for how well-made of a game it is.

Do GM angels have any proprietary numina? Of can they use Demon Embeds/Exploits as numina, like qashmal can use Transmutations?

>>48752043
>Although 2e *really* loves its huge painful area of effect damage per turn abilities.
just mcfarland and his stupid mechanics
>>48752745
>Well I obviously understood it as reach of Azothic Radiance.
reach is justa thing in dnd and mage

>>48752745
>Although I guess it's possible the reach might be arm's length or how far can Promethean go in one turn or maybe even naked eye view distance. But should be specified and not just "infuse Azothic Radiance" and "within reach".

If we take it to mean somewhere the Prom can reach, is the power less effetive if he's tied up?

>>48752066
>Nnnnope

It's one character. And they are literally made up by both men and women. At that point an gender-neutral pronoun is pretty fitting.

>>48753176
Sort of. They have an equivalent of Going Loud that is fucken terrifying. But all Demons in the area are going to notice the Aether spike.

Do Mages have a 'super-saiyan' mode? Vampires frenzy, Werewolves warform, Changelings embrace the wyrd, Demons go loud, etc.

>>48754810
Yeah, it's called "The Awakening"

>>48754810
Mages are that way by default.

>>48753131
>>48752403
When you jump to the conclusion "this is ridiculous, and the sure sign of a hopeless idiot", that's *being* a clueless reactionary. Even regardless of whether or not you think they're a "real thing".

>>48752745
I don't really see it as "game breaking". Even if it's powerful, that doesn't really mean anything. There's this notion I keep seeing that "it's big and powerful and flashy" means that something is GAME BREAKING, but that's not really true. Even if we assume that Biting Aura would allow an Azoth 7 Promethean to hide in a tower and drop a wave of repeated death to everyone in the city of a particular supernatural type, what aspect of the game does that break? Not only is that not helping you on your Pilgrimage, it's actually actively a step backward to use your powers in such a way.

>>48753454
I love that I can always tell it's you. McFarland is far from the only one using "deals 1 lethal a turn" effects; there are a few built into core. Poison is one B or L a turn in combat. And "reach" in this case is lower-case-r reach, as in "reach up onto that shelf for me".

>>48753478
I generally read most powers in terms of "what's the first thing that comes to my mind", so I don't think it's their actual physical touch (otherwise the power is nearly worthless, and outdone by a knife) so much as their aura being painful to anyone within their general vicinity. I guess this *is* a power that could be more explicit, but I also doubt McFarland (or anyone else, for that matter) really cares. I know in a game, I'd rule that you need to be physically present.

>>48754188
Actually, it's a few, but it's still dumb that people get so pants on head incompetent about it.

>>48755015
>Actually, it's a few, but it's still dumb that people get so pants on head incompetent about it.

No, it's just that Combo pops up in a few places.

>>48755110
That's really only if we assume it's all Combo. Zie isn't even one of the sample practitioners of Phosphorum, although that seems odd, considering. Disappointing, too, considering I'd want to see zir.

I feel like the nonstandard pronouns would have been better put in Centimanus, since that one's art is a hermaphrodite looking like zie just stepped out of a Slaaneshi party. With a cat and a look that says "I'm going to fuck then eat this cat".

>>48755562
"Or maybe the other way around"

>>48755601
I thought about that, but then the cat will be gone. Prometheans can eat anything they fit in their mouths. And it's not like they poop, either.

>>48750492

That's a part of it, but it just comes down to the fact that it's really boring to play. There's plenty of set up but little to keep a game actually going, and it coasts on its magical girl flavoring a bit too much.

>>48752066
Sorta fits the situation though. Or is the proper response now to just ignore thinking about it completely, while running away from sjw boogeyman.

>>48755015
>game breaking
According to you, power which would instantly level cities across half of the continent wouldn't be game breaking either, right?
>deals 1 lethal a turn
You conveniently forgot to mention that damage from poison can be resisted for a turn with Stamina + Resolve roll
>physically present
That's not too precise either. Physically present where? In the same room? In the same street/square within viewing distance?

>>48754810

They don't really need one. That's what Reaching well into a Paradox dice pool is for.

>>48733333
Well mage isnt horror trope in any way. And changeling is basicaly just grim folklore.

Do you think Hunters will get a Going Loud equivalent? Like obviously it wouldn't be as powerful, but a Blow the Fuck Up mechanic seems to be common among the 2e templates.

>>48755868
With Animalism ●●●, you can make every animal in 100 yards per success follow your command to rise up and murder anyone around them in an atavistic frenzy. Does this break the game?

How about Sever Soul (Death ●●●), Rote, Mantra, Concentration, Reach on Advanced Area, two Reach on going straight to Thrall, Reach for Instant, just because. -10 penalty, because with a likely +8 from Yantras alone, that should be easy. Let's go -12 to add +1 Potency, spend a Willpower if you feel the need. Sure, it's "only" about 500 acres, but everyone who has Resolve 3 or less is now an emotionally broken husk of a human being. I'm assuming Death ●●● + Gnosis ●●● + Skill ●●● and an Order Specialty, although we *are* comparing this Mage to an Azoth 7 Promethean (or an Animalism ●●● Gangrel), so we could make that base pool much higher than 14. We could also take six hours to cast the spell and get +5 on it instead of the +2 from Concentration.
Really, you could go with some murder spell and then Reach for Advanced Duration, which would set it off again in an hour, but that's boring. Much more interesting to turn an area about the size of Central Park into depressed zombies.

Then again, people complained that an Anakim could potentially lift a Size 55 object at Lair 10. I don't have Demon on me, so I can't look up the Inferno Tilt, but in terms of impressive things, I'd say Wound Healing is up there.

Are we breaking the game, yet?

>You conveniently forgot to mention that damage from poison can be resisted for a turn with Stamina + Resolve roll
I didn't forget, it's irrelevant.
>That's not too precise either. Physically present where? In the same room? In the same street/square within viewing distance?
Use your fucking head.

>>48756627
>a Blow the Fuck Up mechanic
It's called "Plan C4"

>>48756637

Man, 2e got really stupid in terms of power level. I'm glad they figured that out and are starting to tone it down.

>>48756637
>Animalism
I'm glad they made it so strong in the later editions. Animalism was utter trash in VtM.

>>48756752
I'm glad they stopped creating fuckin' useless powers. Now at least they feel like they're worthy of the XP you invest in them

>>48756752
Not really. I mean, it's strong, sure, but so what? People keep worrying about things doing boatloads of damage, but Dominate is still one of the best powers ever simply by virtue of making people do what you want. I mean, let's take a look at the Promethean power that started all this. You fully charge the Alembic of Clades and taint your Azothic Radiance (the aura of Prometheanness that spreads out and allows other Prometheans and Pandorans to sense you) with the Bane of a specific supernatural type. If we assume, as >>48751895 did, that the Promethean's "reach" here means *the full area* as opposed to simply "within arms reach, i.e. relatively close proximity", then a Promethean of Azoth 7 can deal 1L to every supernatural of a specific type each turn.

Now, let's ignore the fact that it requires a reading of the rules that, to me, feels really disingenuous and lawyery. It requires you to be a ridiculously high level and not suppressing your power level and while it might help your Pilgrimage by keeping you alive, killing a ludicrous amount of people--even vampires or mages--is several steps back. "Injuring or killing multiple people with supernatural abilities" is a breaking point, and honestly I'd probably just auto-drop someone two dots if we're talking an entire city's worth of multiple people.

>>48756798
Obfuscate's capstone is probably my favourite outlandish power.
Although on the subject of "game breaking" powers that are really strong, I like how in Geist all of the Curse Manifestations are just asinine. Almost every one of them exists for no reason other than to make someone's life miserable. You can actually give someone sexual dysfunction so bad that they kill themselves with Stygian Curse.

>>48757070
There are a few that seem useless or barely even useful for mundane things, but yeah, it's good that they tend to actually *do* something. I'm more glad that powers in a set generally feel more cohesive.

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>>48756540

>>48757162
Also of note, 1 lethal is not that much. Vamps might have to feed a bit in order to survive, werewolves will probably go berzerk, Mages will sow their pattern back together, Changelings will flee into the hedge through the nearest door, Mummies will slap your face and tell you to shut up, Sin-Eaters won't even shudder, Beasts will cry in a corner and Deviants will explode.

Congratulations, you probably just caused an influx of of supernatural assault rather than killing all members of a splat. Here's a cookie

>>48757335
I was going to point out something to that effect, but it *is* lasting for the whole scene (though presumably the assumption is that this is in combat time, much like Poison or Sick as a Tilt).

I'm not sure why you think Beasts would cry, though. Frankly, depending on who you target, you could end up killing a bunch of people and then making a bunch more enemies. Sure, the Thyrsus is still alive and the Mastigos opened a portal for his Cabal, but now everyone they know is dead and they're gonna want revenge.

Even worse if it's a Werewolf. You don't want a Werewolf tracking you. When they find you, they'd kill you before you had a chance to charge the Alembic again.

And this is assuming it's the entire span of Azothic Radiance, as opposed to the more reasonable short range "don't touch me".

>>48757335
>Deviants will explode.
I have idea about actually good "suicide squade" game. You are living biological weapons. Super virus nests inside you. Your goal is to invade Germany as a refugee and infect as many people as you can. But then something goes wrong with the virus and you start to change.

I downloaded the big book collection in the opening post and I noticed it doesn't have any demon books in it. Do you guys want those? I got some of em.

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>>48757611
>I have idea about actually good "suicide squade" game.
Are you making fun of my Suicide Squad idea, or just the concept in general when you say "actually good"?

>>48757685
I didnt know somebody making a SS game here. Just concept "here are some cool guys. No they dont actually going to blow themselves for the greater good, its just a cool name"

>>48757335
What about Demons?

>>48757857
They heard about this in the news.

>>48757722
Original concept for the Suicide Squad was that they were an expendable team of assets. Basically ideal for anything that could reasonably considered a suicide mission. Also, not going on the mission is suicide, as that's accepting that the bomb in their head will be set off.

>>48757162

>I mean, it's strong, sure, but so what?

I just don't care for the power creep. It rarely ends well for a game. It's why I'm glad Deviant's looking more grounded.

>>48757070

Fair enough. I'd ultimately prefer power creep to the old Gift and Ritual system from Werewolf 1e.

>>48757722
My idea is basically using Hunter rules to create player character vampires and werewolves and stuff, then have the players be strongarmed by Valkyrie to hunt down other spooky things for their freedom.

>>48757905
*Original* concept was WWII suicide missions who were not so much expendable as willing to go on suicide missions. The original reboot became Amanda Waller's criminals, and it wasn't actually *suicide* to not go on the mission, you just had your arm blown off by an explosive bracelet if you were too far away from Rick Flag. Slipknot actually called that bluff. He was listed in NerdSync's list of all Suicide Squad deaths. "He's not dead, just dumb."

It's the New 52 version where they have the cool cranial bombs.

>>48758048
I don't really see much in terms of "Creep". "Power level" has always been sporadic.

>>48751778
So I started them off pretty standard with Book 1. They come to the inn, meet Paul aka bond with me NPC, meet up and almost beat the shit out of Brother Clement, and get throughly creeped out by Lothar. The PCs are a bastard daughter of the di Medici's who has effectelly been given a death sentence to make sure she doesn't muck things up for the new trueborn kid and the other is a incredibly good looking priest with familial ties to the di Medici. The players made their characters separately so that's great.

I'm sticking with the majority of the book's story with the diabolization of Cappadocius. However, I'm adding ultiour motives to members of the Conspiracy/removing or adding new members so it isn't completely edgy and stupid. For example, the assimite is there because he fucked up and HQ sent him out to lower his generation. The Ravanos is there because the Assie hired the fuck to help him in this regard. The Tremere is there to learn more about Necromancy and this fucked up ritual of the blue rose Cladious is using to incentivize the Conspiracy to work together. My last example is that there is a Lamiea in the Conspiracy who wants Cappadocius to suffer in anyway because his lover was lost to the Feast of Folly. This brings in the new lore that this bloodline might have fucked over the clan they should have protected and the distasteful history that comes with managing a clan a vamps.

I straight up told my players that what they do matters. If they burn the conspiracy to death, good job you changed history. But I'm leaving the choice up to them because they are going off book no matter what.

>>48757651
If you can, sure. I have no idea who's updating the trove.

>>48730332
Metaplot is really not a problem unless you step on its toes and sometimes notices. Then you're instantly neck deep in shit. Dark Ages is also hell of a lot more open about what you can do with characters, whether you're sticking to existing material or not.

>>48756637
Animalism isn't that overpowered, you are underestimating human/animal ratio.

Sever soul isn't that great either, after all in CoD ordinary humans are really just cannon fodder/victims, so fucking up few hundreds of people isn't that impressive. Effect of this scale is normal for Mages, they are at different power level.

I agree with Beast lifting and throwing stuff, it obviously doesn't scale right (Promethean with Titan's Throw could probably do similar stuff).
I don't see Wound Healing especially impressive, compared to werewolf in Gauru it's rather meh.

>I didn't forget, it's irrelevant.
Resistible and irresistible damage is big difference

>Use your fucking head.
Very classy; some people here are trying to have actual conversation. I'm not trying to be lawyery with rules, I just read it like it's written and when I think something is not very clear, I ask. I don't attempt to guess meaning behind unclear statements, I don't have cultural context and deeper knowledge of English language to be able to do that.

>>48756752
>I'm glad they figured that out and are starting to tone it down.
Did they? I don't see any toning down.

>>48758081

Of course you don't, but there's a been an increase in outright power as a trend in the 2e releases. You're right on one thing, though. It's not universally applied. Mages, for example, come out to about the same general power as in 1e, questionable game exploits aside. People were freaking out about Acanthus being 2stronk but Acanthus was always the true powerhouse in 1e, once you looked past the deceptive lie of Mastigos's raw damage dealing ability. 2e just made it more obvious.

>>48758166

I'm just going by Dave's elevator pitch, but it looks like Deviant's going to be a little more street level. After three bigger deal creatures in a row, that sounds refreshing.

>>48758166
There are thousands of insects within a city block. And likely several hundred birds. This isn't even counting the pets. Also, Sever Soul effects anything that's not a Mage, as far as I'm aware, and as I pointed out, I could do the same with an attack spell. I could murder everyone in the area in two turns. I also don't at all see the problem with throwing a Size 55 building when you are literally at the pinnacle of splat potential.

Also, Wound Healing is constant and only requires a compromise roll at +5 or so. Gauru is a bit different, and normally healing lethal takes Essence.

>Very classy; some people here are trying to have actual conversation.
Book aside, I made it very clear what I meant. I said "within close proximity". As in, close to the Promethean, at most within the same room. I don't think I've ever met someone who would consider being stared at from across a football field as "within close proximity".

I also don't really see how being able to resist a powerful This Is The End of the Game Level Toxin is really all that meaningful compared to a Biting Aura.

>>48758252
It honestly doesn't sound that street level to me. It's just that if you use your powers, you're Scars grow.

>>48758204
Mastigos were never good because they could deal damage, they were good because they could do anything. Mage is actually weaker in some regards. Changeling doesn't seem to have gotten any power boost, but it *is* more focused and coherent, and the powers aren't ranked, which if nothing else takes a lot of the weight off of dead levels or wonky shit.

I don't really see "power creep" as being a big deal, though. Mummies aren't supposed to be dealing with Vampire level threats.

>>48758324
I'm not sure if insects are affected by Animalism. Rats and birds are fair game.

>>48758385
I don't think they are; I know OWoD they aren't and Requiem 1e they aren't (that's the premise of another Discipline in Requiem 1e).

>>48758324

>It honestly doesn't sound that street level to me.

What a shock.

>Mastigos were never good because they could deal damage, they were good because they could do anything.

So could Acanthus, especially once they got powerful enough to get creative with Time and Fate. It's just that Mastigos also had the siren's call of "you can do lethal mind rays".

>I don't really see "power creep" as being a big deal, though. Mummies aren't supposed to be dealing with Vampire level threats.

Power creep can be a problem when the power gets in the way of the theme and tone of the game. Granted, I don't think this has actually happened to any of the games yet (even Beast, which gets away with it by having no real themes or tone), but it could when unchecked. You seem to think that I seen it as a red flag, when it's really more of a yellow flag.

>>48758544
>What a shock.
The game explicitly allows you to become Doctor Manhattan or Tetsuo tier. That's not street level. And, I mean, most of the time when people say "power creep", they really do see it as a red flag.

But I don't really even see it as a Yellow Flag myself.

>>48758385
>>48758490
As far as I'm aware there's no reason they aren't. They're animals, they're scavengers or predators. I don't remember any other Discipline that works on insects in Requiem, other than the Melissidae's altered Disciplines. Though there is Vermin Flood, which is Summon the Hunt on crack.
>Unlike Summon the Hunt, this Devotion never appears to be a coincidental event. The Vermin Flood is a plague of biblical proportions. While it tends to stretch the Masquerade, it also causes disbelief in onlookers. Those in the swarm do not survive to tell the tale
It's Animalism ●●●, Vigor ●●, Celerity ●●, 4xp, and 10 vitae to activate. Anything within about an area the size of a house is swarmed with cats, birds, rats, and all manner of insect and takes Animalism in Lethal every single turn for the rest of the scene.

>>48758802

>The game explicitly allows you to become Doctor Manhattan or Tetsuo tier. That's not street level.

A power level you attain only when you accept that your character is going to die. The Incredible Hulk seems to be the upper level of sustainable PC power, and that's only a tiny step above street level in terms of its storytelling.

We'll see what the final version is like, but it's clearly intended to be on the lower scale of power level.

>>48758802
The game is explicitly intended to be the lowest power one we've had, yet.(Besides Hunter.)
If you've even read the Gen-Con spoilers we got from Dave, that's pretty clear; their power stat stops at 5, period. Each Variation you buy makes you less and less passable as human, and going Doctor Manhattan or Tetsuo is irreversible, to the point that you're basically handing your sheet over to the ST in exchange for one big strike against the enemy before you roll a new character. It's not something you can sustain, unless you're playing a game where going that big is the intention/you're intended to be walking around as big superhuman forces and the ST has made a point of ignoring the part where your enemies are intended to be equal power level to you, in which case you're playing outside the normal scope of a Deviant game.

How many of the splats have built in magic items and how many of them can be used by humans?

>>48759020

If I recall correctly, either their power stat or their actual power set ratings start at 0 instead of 1, which is a hell of a thing.

>>48759845
Core, Hunter, Mage, Beast

>>48759845

Vampires have Reliquaries, Werewolves have Fetishes, Mages have Artifacts, Prometheans (as of 2e) have Athanors, Changelings have Tokens, Sin-Eaters have Mementos, Mummies have Relics, and Demons have Gadgets.

Someone correct me on this, but I believe Fetishes, Artifacts, Relics, and Gadgets can be used by humans, some more easily than others and with some possible disastrous results. Relics, for example, can explicitly be used by anyone, at the price of inducing a terrible curse on the user.

http://theonyxpath.com/sheer-perfection-signs-of-sorcery-open-development/

New Signs of Sorcery blog post.

>>48759906
Reliquaries are really just stores of vitae, and only, what, one Covenant can make them?
I remember there were Gargoyles in 1e, but that seems to have been ignored and later sourcebooks ignore their existence.

Tokens can also be used by humans, they just have to have their Catch fulfilled and always have their drawback. A set of armour gives -1 because it's uncomfortable and itchy and *squirms* for instance.

I don't actually know whether Fetters can be used by anyone other than Sin-eaters, and there was that weird bit where Deathmasks require you to have 2 Psyche per each to carry one, but there's no actual explanation of what happens if you don't have 2 Psyche.

>>48759857

Their Power Stat. Remade don't start with any dots in it, and it only goes up to 5.

(They use it pus their highest-rated Variation as Supernatural Tolerance, so they're not disadvantaged in that way. It's not *always* the same as the Power Stat - Demons use their Integrity Stat when in Cover, for instance)

Deviant's default form of play is to have one or two powers, a couple of scars, and essentially be homeless people on the run from the Men in Black Sedans. The game is just intended to accomodate higher powers at equally high downsides, up to the point where you go nuclear like the end of Akira if that's what you're interested in

But my Developer's advice for writers working on Variations is "remember the opponents in this game are - usually - unpowered mortals".

Mages can make reality cry, but their bad guys include sentient alternate timelines, the universal symbols of human oppression, and other mages.

Deviant is going to be written assuming street level. Gutter level, even. After Mage, I am looking forward to some sharp relief.

I'm looking to start up a Requiem 2E game based out of New York City. Does anyone have a good map of NYC that might be split into districts (I'm looking to use some stuff from Damnation City), or would you suggest perhaps using an original city? I have some ideas for an original city on the West Coast.

>>48760322
I keep wanting to make original cities. Although the last time I tried to run a game, I was going to use Gotham.

>>48760322
Is suggest getting a map of the subway and base each "district" on the way the lines intersect. It's how most people get around anyway. Why wouldn't parasites base their regions on how their food moves around?

>>48760367
Hmm, I'll dig into that, thanks.

>>48760363
I developed an original city that I like pretty well, but I'm not sure if I want to use it (I developed it for an OWoD game that collapsed). It replaced Stockton, CA and was more upscale due to not getting hit by the housing bubble, founded by a rich family whose riches came about because their founder sold the souls of future family members to a demon.

>>48760443
I use a general geographically neutral mix of New York, DC, London, and LA. I essentially take DC's approach to cities.

>>48760367
I found this, http://maps.conquerclub.com/NYC.S.gif

I think it'll work for what I'm wanting to do.

>>48760550
No problem anon. Just remember that The Bronx, at least the southern half, is a complete shithole and that the upper half of Manhattan is pretty fucked up because all cash downtown.

>>48760789
All cash flows downtown. Sorry, being on the phone is no excuse for being lazy

>>48758324
Not gonna argue about animals, it's quite hard to estimate it correctly, although I don't believe in horror consequences of crazy animals like for instance in Birds.
About Sever Soul I would argue it wouldn't work on Werewolf, Geists and Beasts either because none of them have normal soul.
I view throwing skyscrapers problematic, because it's difficult to hold them. Hands are only so big and you can hold just small part of building so no matter how strong, you wouldn't move the building, you would break away part of corner and that's it.

Ad Wound Healing - fights usually take only several turns and outside combat it isn't that hard,important - werewolves heal 1 lethal in 15 minutes which is probably fast, vampires can drain some hobo, some mage in cabal probably has spell for it...

>I said "within close proximity"
But in different post, how the hell I'm supposed to know what are you referring to?

With poison tilt toxicity doesn't really matter much, it's just bashing/lethal, but I admit that you could make condition with anthrax-is-nothing-compared-to-this-stuff toxicity poison which would have pretty much same effect, but GM who would want use such poison in his game could as well say that the sky fell on your head.

>>48760913
>I view throwing skyscrapers problematic, because it's difficult to hold them.
The power doesn't say you can throw a skyscraper. It says you can throw a Size 55 object. Also, with the other Anakim have another one that raises their effective size, so in total that's actually Size 160, which is a bit more impressive. But you're right, a skyscraper isn't a single object and being able to lift an object that's Size 160 doesn't mean that that object is going to hold together. I agree with that, but people still argued that it was gamebreaking.

>But in different post, how the hell I'm supposed to know what are you referring to?
By keeping up with the conversation?

>>48760240

Ah, thank you. Here's to Deviant having a swift and easy development cycle, I'm very excited for it.

Suicide Squad is basically WoD the Anime series, it's like so related

>>48761251
Not in any way at all
Go back to /co/ or /tv/, whichever one you came from

>>48761911
You're just mad my idea is much better than anything you can come up with?

>>48761938
Go away, Camilla, I'm having plenty of fun running my games already without having to try and make them like anime or be in the 90s

Suicide Squad doesn't fit WoD as-is. Not unless you make half the cast Mages or Proximi and say everyone in the fucking world is a Sleepwalker
Hell, even then Enchantress would stick out like a sore thumb. She's closest to Geist in her power origins, but she's also able to do shit that no Sin-Eater can do, and unable to do things that all Sin-Eater can do.

Something can be Urban Fantasy without being WoD.

>>48755015
> When you jump to the conclusion "this is ridiculous, and the sure sign of a hopeless idiot", that's *being* a clueless reactionary.
Oh, just fuck off back to whatever hole you crawled out of.

>>48762059
Not >>48761938 or >>48761251, though I am the person who keeps talking about having a Taskforce:VALKYRIE Suicide Squad idea.

I haven't seen the movie (or really read the comics, though I did love Assault on Arkham), but something can be a good source of inspiration without fitting 100%. You're also making the mistake that something has to perfectly align to the rules of the WoD setting to fit as WoD inspiration. None of the actual listed inspirations in the book have setting mechanics that are mappable to WoD splats or powers or groups.

For instance, my Suicide Squad idea is actually based on something from the Slasher book, where a sidebar talks about VASCU using Slashers and other monsters as monster hunters. Just because the characters in the inspirational work are blasting powers willy nilly doesn't mean the players have to (though in many WoD gamelines, that *is* a viable response; Demon especially has a setting hack for Jason Bourne style action espionage).

Also, you don't really have to "try" to make WoD like an anime...

>>48762210
>Has a clueless kneejerk reaction
>Doesn't want to be called a clueless reactionary
You first, chum

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>>48762257
You know that thing when you're talking with a /pol/tard and he's doing nothing but calling you a "cuck" and whining about some thing you can't even comprehend because it's just that stupid? I feel exactly like that now.

>>48762321
I'm not saying that you're /pol/ or a cuck or whatever. I'm not saying "die, cis scum", even sarcastically.
But this?
>Because they are ridiculous. You don't need to be a clueless reactionary to see that seriously using made-up pronouns are a sure sign of an hopeless idiot.
This is you being a clueless reactionary. This? >>48752066
>> haven't seen what's new with WoD, let's look at Prom 2e, it was promising last I heard
>> made-up pronouns
>Nnnnope.
This is being a clueless reactionary. That's not even a post that serves a point other than to complain and bitch and whine in a reactionary fashion.

People always complain about things being a "culture war", but honestly the worst part is that people complain and bitch and act like it *is* a culture war whenever something new happens, or some culture they don't like becomes a thing. And the most ridiculous part is people acting like these "made up pronouns" are even some big deal in the first place.

>>48762476
I'm not fucking going to actually be discussing the merits of made-up pronouns with idiots who mistook the site for their safe space, and you're even dumber than I thought you are if you think that I'm going to humour you. Just fuck off forever.
> culture war
Why the fuck did you say that you weren't using buzzwords if you were going to base your entire argument around a buzzword? Holy mother of fuck, it's like you're trying to outdo yourself in stupidity here.

>>48762572

All pronouns are made up.

Language is a fiction of certainty.

>>48762572
I'm not using a buzzword, I'm decrying the kind of people who make the situation they're buzzwording into that situation.

Also, the site isn't your safe space, either. Hence why I'm pointing out how childish it is to go "this book has made up pronouns, Nnnnope".

Which begs the question: Why would I humour you?

>>48762476
I'm just joining this argument now, but I wanna go ahead and say that literally any time I hear /anything/ about a culture war, it's on 4chan, and it's people bitching about the culture war.

If y'all shut the fuck up about how feminism is ruining the country or whatever, you'll notice you run into it substantially less.

>>48762643
That's what I was saying. The closest there ever is to a culture war comes from people going "It's a culture war!"

In other news, how about that Perfected Metallurgy?

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>>48762595
> Language is a fiction
You know what leftist critiques of nazism put forward as its greatest sin? Not the atrocities that it called to commit, but its denial of reality. 1984, say, was wholly about denial of reality, with physical punishments inflicted by the Party being barely an afterthought. When tumblr denies reality in exactly the same way as /pol/ does, why does it think that it deserves attention any more than /pol/? Ridiculous.
>>48762604
> Which begs the question
Stupid fucking bastard, you sound even dumber with each new sentence you type. But then again, I guess this was to be expected from someone who unironically defends made-up pronouns.

>>48762717

Sophis makes my dick hard. Wanna be a mage with ten sophis rings.

>>48762758
Uhm, but them atrocities were pretty bad though baka senpai.

>>48762758
You know how I said you don't sound /pol/? I was wrong.
Why do made up pronouns offend you so much? Gender is nonbinary--not only does the APA acknowledge as much, we can literally see that with brain scans--so why does it trigger you that people you'll never meet want visitors to their tumblr to call them zie? More importantly for the purpose of this conversation and thread: Why does a hermaphrodite made from reanimated corpses calling zirself something "made up" bother you?

Also I don't mean the formal logic "begging the question", I mean the colloquial "this makes me ask" form of the phrase. Which, as language is malleable and use dictates meaning, is perfectly valid.

>>48762759
I just want a katana of Siderite or Lunergant

>>48762231
I wasn't saying you can't use it as inspiration, I'm saying that it isn't "basically WoD the anime", like the guy I replied to claimed it was

https://mega.nz/#F!3ElwBRpK!pC3J0VfZr2wnUSCuRcDj_w

Here's the Demon - The Descent folder

>mfw cis scum are in my rpgs

>>48763074
You know, my chronicles HAVE had a large number of the gays.

Then again, I assume that is because two of the people I played with most are gay, and therefore gay characters had to pop up more.

>>48763074
Representation is important except for cis-het white scums. Fuck their privileges

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>>48762877
You're possibly the stupidest son of a bitch I've meet this week, and I saw some trumpeters sperg it out just yesterday. Why the fuck do you even pretend to oppose /pol/ when you're exactly like it?

>>48763234
To be fair, in many mediums white het and cis is the presumed default. It sure is in my games.

>>48763321
>many mediums
>not every medium that doesn't have a descriptor in the name explaining how it isn't white het

But anyway, on topic... the examples for Deviant types 'cyborg, psychic' has me a little concerned. I know Beast went with the wildly different monster types all falling under one category situation, and Changeling actually does it well because they are all fairytale... but I don't know how I feel about such a wide category of just 'stuff that was experimented on'.

It feels like cyborg-chan and psychic-kun would differ so much in theme that the games might not hold together well.

>>48763436

موضوع جدید

>>48763378
> implying Beast taught OP anything
WoD was always big on running on the narrative and completely ignoring the physical aspects, even with supposedly physical beings like new demons. I still don't see how OP doesn't see how it only makes their games harder to visualise, so to speak.

>>48763378
It's only really that was due to the fact that most mediums describe settings which are a white majority, especially many places in America.

>>48763234
... they're represented literally everywhere.

>>48763282
>I saw some trumpeters sperg it out just yesterday
You are literally getting upset that I called you out for "sperging". How are you not getting that?

>>48763590
The issue isn't that a majority of the characters in most fiction are white; It's that they're disproportionately white.

>>48763660
> I called you out for "sperging"
You might have "called me out" for being a cuck and it would have made just as much sense. Fuck off.

>>48763660
In what sense? in America whites are easilly 63% of the population overall, and in many areas that number is as high as 90% if not higher. Where I live, whites are less of a majority but blacks are also a tiny minority. Out of the states population of maybe 1.4 million, we have less than 5 thousand african americans, many of whom are military who are only here on a transient basis. If you wrote fiction about Hawaii, if you used it as a setting, you might have one or two in it unless you focused on an area that would have them such as a military base. It's just how fiction tends to work

>>48763697
You threw a shitfit over "made up pronouns"! Most rational people don't do that.
At best, they go "oh. huh." and move on.

>>48763721
> You threw a shitfit
If saying "nnnnope" is throwing a shitfit in your inflamed imagination, then you need to check with a psychiatrist. You're stupid to the point of seeming insane.

>>48763740
Many people would say that childish dismissal is throwing a shitfit, yes.
A friend of mine would say that you're throwing your toys out of the pram.

>>48763717
Which would be fair. That's why old cartoons had the rainbow coalition parties. Always a bunch of minorities, and then 2-3 White kids, one of which was female, and maybe one was ginger.

It is a simplified way to give the appearance of representing minority groups.

In reality, if your party of 5 was supposed to be representative, usually it would be 3 Whites, a Black person, and someone who has no idea what they are mixed with.

But representation isn't about perfect numbers, it is about positive examples, and having a chance to see yourself in something else.

I grew up seeing a ton of Black characters in a lot of shows, but more than half had a criminal background, or some sort of drug problem. Not that the positive examples weren't great, but it sort of sucks when your options are 'average guy' and 'drug addled felon'.

Now imagine if you were Asian. You get 'side character who is quirky nerd' or 'side character who totally isn't a quirky nerd this time... maybe knows martial arts'.

>>48763809
You're unbelievable. I'm ashamed on your behalf. Kill yourself for your own sake.

>>48763851
Man, Dave B is real angry this thread for some reason.

>>48763717
Demographic stats don't count "Latinx" as a race separate from white, so that number won't tell the whole story.

File: i love being white.jpg (66KB, 500x335px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48763826
But I'm not and I don't have to.

>>48764192
Well yeah, but a guy like you needs all the privilege he can get, if you know what I mean.

File: film-diversity-1024x538.jpg (46KB, 1024x538px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48763858
Actually most do? Like, the Census, and even the SATs have "Hispanic (white)" and "Hispanic (black)".

>>48763851
I don't even know what you're doing at this point. Are you really mad that I said you're silly for getting so upset over pronouns?

>>48763717
>>48763826
Whites are 63% of the population in America, but probably close to 100% of the fictional population. There are shows with entire casts that are white, or with maybe one token black guy.
There's also the actual roles. As >>48763826 points out, white people get to be anything. Other races? Other demographics? Not so lucky. Hell, when was the last time you saw a queer protagonist? Hell, I can't think of a female protagonist in an action movie. The most recent that comes to mind is AVP. They generally get to be sidekicks or love interests. Hell, people had to complain for there to be Black Widow action figures.

>>48764192
Good for you.

>>48764223
>"Hispanic (white)"

Keep dreaming, spics.

>>48764223
Action females have been doing better in the last 5 years or so, mostly because of dystopian teen movies though.

hungry games was a big deal after all.

Does the female lead for Mad Max count?

Rogue One and Episode 7 are female lead.

But yeah, this is a new situation.

>>48764262
Oh, right, I forgot about Star Wars. I actually liked that one. Though I'd call that "adventure". I meant more along the lines of the Bourne movies or those forgettable blockbusters like Battle for LA and shit.

I suppose the teen movie demographic *is* doing better, but I'm far outside that demo.

>>48764369
True, I guess when it comes to Action in particular, women don't get their fair shake.

>>48763872
Actually. the 63 number I quoted separated "White" latinos, who make up I think 16%?

>>48764634
"Hispanic or Latino" total makes up 16%, with Black being another 12%. Really, though, the issue is basically that straight white males are the demographic that gets the most of the screentime. And also seats in government. Which would be more important, if only government accomplished things.

>>48765121
I think the "seats in government" deal is more a problem with voter ignorance. We continue to put people in congress, on the house senate and such whom are like us, the majority. We put people up who claim to represent us because finding out if they really do requires more effort than we generally put in, and even when we do a lot of the time they(those who will represent us well) won't make it.

>>48765403
That's really a problem with elective representative democracy; the majority has a disproprotionate amount of power. I mean, that's why the 14th Amendment is a thing, and even with that, there's been a ton of discrimination against minorities, like DOMA, or, you know, that time we literally had internment camps.

> I think the seats in government deal is more a problem with voter ignorance"
I came here to look at World of Darkness and have found myself on /pol