Warhammer 40k General

abaddon was a good boy
he dindu nuffin
gotta launch mo crusades for a new pair of arms

>>48600393
why don't the gods just give him chaos arms?

>>48600421
No, it was not optional. It was an illegal action and he should have redeployed once traits were determined. As soon as he placed his servo-skulls, you should have rolled traits. Why did you delay?

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Does the attached vehicle have to be part of the unit?

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>>48600422
>>48600430
>I will live to see Abaddon sacking Terra and taking his rightful place as Dark Emperor of Mankind

Feels good. You guys dank meme while you can.

>>48600477
Abbadon seems like the Hillary Clinton of chaos to me.

>>48599976
>So anecdotal evidence?
Not.exactly events actually indicates popilarity better than few small LCG.
>The models are awesome, but that says nothing about AoS as a game.
It says about popularity Age of Sigmar as product, which means AoS was a large success. Which means ET for 40k more probably will be good as it was good for fantasy.

>>48600477
>loser gets irrationally mad at armless memes
what a time to be alive

>>48600505
>winer
>loser
Wut?

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I'm happy about your upcoming Deathwatch book, I really am. This will be your sixth loyalist marine codex, will it not?

>>48600477
abbadon is malekith reloaded?

>>48600505
>Do I fit in guise?!

That's the saddest part.

>>48600549
Kinda.

No hot mom doe.

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>>48600537

Cultists are the greatest thing to happen to CSM since 3.5 codex

>Nobody talking about this?
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/08/40k-breaking.html

Is it the long-awaited AoS reset?

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>sanctus reach
>turn based strategy game
>featuring online multiplayer
>ranking systems
>point buys
>only space wolves and orks.

>>48600710
>>Nobody talking about this?
>few last threads about Rhana Dandra and Ward

>>48600710
>Linking BoLS unironically
>Believing any shit that is posted there

There is no "AoS Reset" for 40k coming and if it was it wouldn't be "long awaited"

Stop forcing this shitty topic.
It is literally in every fucking thread.
Example: Last Thread >>48592769

>>48600747
And daemons.

>>48600758
>There is no "AoS Reset" for 40k coming
Source?
>if it was it wouldn't be "long awaited"
Nope, it will save 40k.

>>48600776
>Source?
GW Likes Money

How about you give me a good and credible source it is coming since you want to talk about it.

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>>48600758
>the discussion police guy has shown up again.

>>48600776
>source?

there isn't one, but there isn't a source for an AoS reset either

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I don't see an army list thread, so I will ask here.

What do you all think about this latest sternhammer list?

Lysander will roll with the conclave, do you think the devastators need a transport?

>>48600776
>>48600794
Considering GW has explicitly stated that 40k will not be sigmared, and that every reliable rumormongerer has also stated that GW does bit plan on sigmaring 40k, it's safe to say that GW will not be sigmaring 40k. we'll probably see the daemon primarchs back, and maybe see some of the loyalist ones back, but that's about it, and that's purely to encourage people to buy the FW stuff.

All this eldar shit means fuckall, it has to with the fucking deathwatch codex. And unless you're orks, nids or blood angles attempting to completely cleanse a space hulk, you always win in your codex.
What will most likely happen is that eldar attempt to start the end times, and then death watch stops it.

>>48600776
>Nope, it will save 40k.

40k is beyond saving. The fluff has been watered down to the point where it's a bare shade of what it once was and the rules are beyond the point of collapse. And GW's current stable of writers are in no way skilled enough to fix this. AoS stands testimony to that.

>>48600793
>GW Likes Money
So another reason for Age of Emperor.
>>48600801
>but there isn't a source for an AoS reset either
Yeah, but we have confirmation of End Times.

>>48600820
>but we have confirmation
this is what happens when you take the proofs out of the meme image

>>48600814
>Considering GW has explicitly stated that 40k will not be sigmared
Again post source please.

>>48600820
you have confirmation of story progression of 2 factions, nothing more nothing less

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>>48600537
Do we count the white dwarf one for SoB?

>>48600820
>Yeah, but we have confirmation of End Times.

The claim is, 8th edition will be streamlined, but it won't be AoS tier streamlined. The "Age of the Emperor" isn't happening, but the 'End Times' (Times of Ending) will happen. Except this time, the Primarch's will return and the Daemon Primarch's will get models. This is happening basically to make the FW models 40k useable.

>>48600502
>events actually indicates popilarity better than few small LCG.

No they don't. Just because an event's 60 slots fill up does not indicate anything except there were at least 60 players interested. You don't know if there were only 60 interested, or 600.

No one at my local stores plays Age of Sigmar. No. One. And I won't touch it because I think it's ridiculous. If people want fantasy skirmish, they do War Machine, which is going strong.

>>48600826
>Rhana Dandra
>meme
seriously?

>>48600849
As a 30k player with a crush on dorn, this pleases me.

As a total noob who sees all the fighting over AoS, this concerns me. I hope the army I just got for 40k isn't obliterated.

>>48600710
Let me give you some advice:
Anything posted in clickbait of lost souls isn't worth your time
If you need to visit, first use adblock.
Then avoid any post with CAPITAL WORDS, "Breaking", "Confirmed", and anything posted by the site owner larry.

You'll find better, more detailed information in these fucking generals 99% of the time about upcoming releases.

I really hope GW shuts down the click-bait, it just doesn't help anyone. Would also lessen the "Meta" list bullshit because it wouldn't give the tourney fags a public echo chamber.

>>48600629
No, that's the dinobots. At least they're something new and unique to the codex. Cultists are just massively overpriced bulk infantry. Space Marines have access to the same thing except vastly better thanks to IG allies.

>>48600776
>Nope, it will save 40k.

You're on fucking drugs.

>>48600851
>eldar prophecies
>accurate
seriously?

Lets all go look through the archives of this week so we can see this exact same thread's future.

>>48583105
>>48584004
>>48573625
>>48574627

>>48600856
Don't get meme'd on. Your models will still be playable and nothing stops you from playing older editions with friends.

Our FLGS just got a email from GW about a new campaign box.

>1) Warhammer 40.000: Death Masque (DM-04) - In verschiedenen Sprachen erhältlich - Preisvorteilige Kampagnenbox - 208-seitiges Softcover-Regelbuch für WH 40.000 - 40-seitiges Softcover Death Masque Heft mit Hintergrundinfos, Missionen, Data Sheets und Regeln für die Miniaturen in der Box - 29 Miniaturen: Deathwatch Watch Captain Artemis (NEU) - Eldrad Ulthran (NEU) - 1 Deathwatch Upgrade Rahmen (NEU), um normale Space Marines in Deathwatch Space Marines umzuwandeln - 5 Space Marine Vanguard Veterans (Expugnatorgarde) & 1 Space Marine Ehrwürdiger Cybot - 12 Harlequin Players (Troupe), 1 Harlequin Death Jester, 2 Harlequin Skyweavers, 1 Harlequin Voidweaver - 1 Harlequin Transfer Sheet VK 125,00 €

Basically, Deathwatch vs Harlequins led by Eldrad.
New stuff includes Eldrad, Captain Artemis and a Deathwatch upgrade kit.
Also, a campaign book with datasheets and formations.
Sadly, no attached pictures.

>>48600877
Elves was pretty accurate abou Rhana Dandra

>>48600877
It happened. So it is accurate. The Rhana Dandra started. The outcome is in flux now.

But lets focus on the fate of humanity, the main rulebook says that this is the last days of the Imperium. Whether it leads to eternal damnation or glorious ascension is unknown.

>>48600909
that's cool but also unrelated

>>48600859
>Anything posted in clickbait of lost souls isn't worth your time

I've read plenty of worthwhile things on BoLS and while I would appreciate a better source of wargaming news I disagree that its worth anybody's time to pour through hundreds of subjective anonymous opinions on an image board like this.

>Then avoid any post with CAPITAL WORDS, "Breaking", "Confirmed"

I do have to agree with you there though.


I don't spend all day reading every refreshed 40k general but the last one I read yesterday was chock-full of other people complaining about 40k and wishing it had an AoS reboot.

-again, the obvious flaws of an anonymous message board are clear.

>>48600764
>YET ANOTHER game you can use daemons in
>As well as 40k, Fantasy, AoS, 30k...
Another victory for the dark gods, how can mortals even compete?

>>48600892

Not everybody spends all day 24/7 on every 40k general keeping tabulated records of the current opinion of who is online at that particular time of day.

>>48600896
>Your models will still be playable and nothing stops you from playing older editions with friends.

EXACTLY THIS

>>48600818
Jesus, you drama queens need to lighten the fuck up.

I've followed 40k since it's inception. I bought Rogue Trader. I had the White Dwarf where the Imperial Guard Army list was first published back in 1990 or whenever. I had solid pewter Space Orks with mohawks. Been around a while.

After leaving the hobby for ten years circa 2007, I was drawn back in by 1) the rules embracing a level of complexity similar to the old days, and 2) the embrace of 40ks fluffy heritage re: Eldar corsairs, knights, mechanicum. Integrating the most popular FW elements (like flyers) helped a lot too. HH is icing.

You're crying about the very things that brought me and my wife into the hobby. "Wah, they're killing 40k." Kid, I watched 40k born. They've done no such thing.

You sound like a stupid, spoiled child whining about change and making grand pronouncments based on your feeeeeelings.

God damn.

Aside, prime reason I left the hobby was that Warhammer was full of whiny little snotlings I got sick of having to be around at my local store.

>>48600850
>No they don't.
But they are, how many fantasy players was in your region?
>And I won't touch it because I think it's ridiculous
Stay salty, but it won't changed Age of Sigmar popularity.
>If people want fantasy skirmish, they do War Machine, which is going strong
But they going into AoS for good models and fluff.

>>48600896
>and nothing stops you from playing older editions with friends.
Top fucking kek.

>>48600896
That wasn't true for fantasy.

As soon as AoS dropped all the local stores banned it in stores and the other option was to rent a room which no one wanted to drop money on while 40k was still free.

>>48600973
that's right, they also burned my books in the parking lot while they sacrificed small children who uttered the fantasy battles name

>>48600973
>all the local stores banned it in stores

Jesus christ I didn't even know that. I have never seen AoS in my FLGS but they just concluded a 6e fantasy campaign with 8 players.

>>48600960
>But they going into AoS for good models and fluff.

Except for me. And everyone I know. Weird.

>AoS popularity
Lol. See above.

This is a terminal case of fanboiness. "The things I like are popular and great! And if you don't like it, you're 'salty.'"

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What's the point of playing 40K anymore when Tau/Eldar/Necrons basic troops can rape your entire army? It's like playing chess except you only get pawns while your opponent gets an army of Queens.

>>48600981
Epic, dude, simply epic.

They destroyed my books with TRAINED PIGEONS, isn't that random?!

>>48600899
>campaign box
Well, so much for Eldrad being part of the 40k Endtimes, I suppose.
Still, seems like a solid deal.

>>48600986
my LGS is a GW and is supposed to have this rule aswell, if the manager knows someone is coming to inspect the store that day he won't allow fantasy to be played that day, seems like a top down decision as always to push more sales

>>48601000
Play daemons, summon three times as many pawn as they have queens then destroy them in glorious melee.

>>48601000
>It's like playing chess except you only get pawns while your opponent gets an army of Queens.
Perfect analogy for the current edition of 40K.

>>48600954
40k rules are shit. Way too much of the complexity is tied up in shitty formatting and garbage design. Things that should be easy and intuitive aren't, and things that require more elucidation are left vague and unhelpful.

Flyers and Knights (Super Heavies) are both a pox upon the game. 40k is desperately in need of a hard divide between a skirmish level set for sub 1500 and a 1500+ Apocalypse level rule set. Let the Knightfaggots and Flybabies congregate in their retarded 28mm log-jammed parking lots while people that actually want decent gameplay can play games where every model actually matters.

>>48600864
Csm are battle brothers with renegades and heteros, so they have even better guard than the guard do.

>>48600998
>Except for me. And everyone I know. Weird.
Guess what? None here cares about small minority.
>"The things I like are popular and great! And if you don't like it, you're 'salty.'"
Well it's true in case of AoS-WHFB.

>>48600564
who needs hot-mum when you have emprah-dad?

>>48601023
>play daemons
>either run FMC's and psychic powers and have everyone complain about how cheesy and unfun your army is
>or run shitty Khorne/Slaanesh builds that just get shot to pieces in the middle of the table
Christ, the local Tau and Dark Angels players have even started agitating against Nurgle thanks to the Tallybrand.

>>48601000
I play with a group of people who aren't fags.

I wish the local WM/H and Infinity players weren't fags, but no store's perfect.

>>48600954
Sorry but you're full of shit.

I've been playing since Space Crusade in 1992. I've seen the number of rulebooks and accessories required to play a match go up and up and up. What used to be manageable with one book and a quick reference sheet has turned into an autist's wet dream of charts and table consultation. At my local clubs before I packed in 40k last year I would always see long interruptions to consult rulebooks and other players multiple times during every match, every week.

Sounds like you're the typical old white middle-class slightly overweight ManGeek who would really enjoy a spot of Bolt Action before your evening game of Canasta.

>Aside, prime reason I left the hobby was that Warhammer was full of whiny little snotlings I got sick of having to be around at my local store.

Cancer confirmed. You fit the profile perfectly for the modern toxic player.

>>48601033
>Renegades and Heretics
>better than Astra Militarum
U wot, m8?

That doesn't change that cultists are overpriced, ineffectual garbage whose only strongpoint is being cheaper than the overpriced, ineffectual Chaos Space Marines.

>>48600973
maybe in your hyperbolic little drama-world but nothing of the sort happened near me at my stores or clubs.

>>48600842
yes it counts.
however its not the codices that make one sad, its the lack of models. the last model came 2004(Immolator) AND ITS GONE WITHOUT A REPLACEMENT!

>>48601000
Cos all you have to do is simply BUY the right army at the right time. Simple anon.

>>48601031
>40k rules are shit. Way too much of the complexity is tied up in shitty formatting and garbage design. Things that should be easy and intuitive aren't, and things that require more elucidation are left vague and unhelpful.

Exactly. There are so many stupid rules and oversights which have failed to be tweaked or updated EVERY. SINGLE. EDITION.

>>48600973

Can confirm. My local GW banned fantasy when the general's handbook released.

>>48601092
Then you've got the times when rules have actively regressed between editions. Like how to handle multiple levels of ruins. And TLoS.

>>48601034
>doesnt care about minority
>his evidence before was about a small tournament selling out, which probably has less than 100 people in it

WEEEEW
E
E
E
E
W

>>48601065
Well that makes you luckier than me.

>>48601099
And units with armor / invulnerable saves in cover = one roll.
So we're assuming the bullet goes through the 4+ window, and penetrates the 5+ psychic barrier but is stopped by the 3+ armor first?

>>48601142
Poor thing. The conspiracy is out to get you.

>>48601107
>small tournament selling out,
>Nottingham event
>small tournament
kek
But it's nice that you meantioned it, because on 2015 ETC WHFB sectiion contained only 8 games.

>>48601107
And maybe it had 10000 people in it, what do you say to that you smug lump of shit?
>tfw 40k is being driven out for AoS
Mmmm, feels so fucking good that beardy fucks like you are going extinct.

Is there any race in 40k that plays like Skaven do in WHFB? ie dirt cheap war machines, units that can potentially wreck face but also kill themselves, lots of fast low armor dudes

>>48601199
dark eldar would be the closest, though there isn't much unpredictability

>>48601199
Probably Chaos Daemons, since you roll to see the warp weather forecast each turn

>>48601163
Being able to roll all three kinds of saves would make a lot of shit nigh impossible to kill with shooting

>>48601169
When did I say anything about a conspiracy?

Jesus dude, you're so hostile, what's wrong with you?

>>48601186
>And maybe it had 10000 people in it

yeah but it didnt, did it? so keep shilling

>>48601179
>warhammer world

gee, it must be really convenient that games workshop would push for lots of new product games at their own venues, can't be because they want to advertise it, noooo

>>48601066
Chinaman is your friend.

Piracy is a problem of service. If your service suck don't be surprise when people pirate.

(I know people will pirate even if it comes with a complementary blowjob from their crush for a dollar)

>>48601233
>yeah but it didnt, did it?
Few thlousands, on AoS event. Looks pretty solid.

>>48601233
>shill
He ACTUALLY believes people are paid to push AoS online.
I would link /AoSg/ to your post to laugh but we're having an actuall discussion about the game so I won't interrupt them.

>>48601209
Chaos Deamons, part of me want to have a Tzeench summoning spam army just to fight people that go full waac in casual games.

Oh you are brining 9000 stormsurge, wriathknight, wraith decurion, librarians bullshit to a friendly casual game?
Ok then, wait while I deploy while I deploy while deploying in the psyker phase you asshole.

>>48601261
>he thinks you have to be paid to be a shill

>>48601261
>999.M41 CHAOS ASCENDANT

>Abaddon the Despoiler launches the greatest invasion of realspace ever seen. Ulthwé has waited long for this moment, and leads the craftworlds to war. The Eldar cause horrific damage to the Chaos Space Marine Legions on dozens of worlds, suffering untenable casualties in their turn as the minions of the Great Enemy fight back. The death toll rises ever higher, with no end in sight.

So you guys doubted that Abaddon commands a force that dwarfs anything Horus ever commanded. Well, the Craftworld codex confirms it. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade is the largest Chaos invasion of real space ever seen. The HH is nothing compared to it.

>>48601287
Didn't mean to link to the other post.

>>48601216
>units wouldn't just be getting yanked from the table by the bucketful in order to enable bigger games and incentivize big showpiece monsters
Sounds fucking good. Sign me up.

>>48601271
The problem is that people get salty as soon as they hear "psychic spam." Even if you roll on nothing but Tzeentch and just spam Witchfires with the occasional Divination Blessing, people will grumble.

>>48601287
So his force is getting spanked by the eldar as well as the imperium?

>>48601334
Hey I would just do it against known waac, and tournaments where cheese and waacfagging is pretty much mandatory.

Also how many models would I need to pull the summoning spam? Keeping a Tzeench theme.

>>48601358
You can't play Tzeentch without psychic spam. The issue is that psychic spam triggers people regardless of the powers used.

You'll need 30+ Horrors, some Heralds, Fateweaver, and whatever you want to summon. Assuming you use the WFH, you'll also need some Flamers.

>>48601297
why do you keep posting that shit anyways. Are you a slut for (you)s?

>>48601320

I dunno, It sounds like my IG will just never kill anything in this scenario. I mean, it already takes 18 shots to drop a marine now - if we use this houserule, it takes me 36? And what do I get in return? The 4+ cover save I already had anyway?

>>48601287
While I'd like to believe that, there's also a difference between greatest and largest. Horus had a fucktonne of assets that spent the entire heresy infighting, tripping each other over or generally being MIA and running off to do drugs/torture.

Abaddon probably has less numbers than Horus had, but he probably has more authority and direction over the forces he wields.

>>48601394
That is a lot of models.

Well the point it is to psychic spam.

For my normal casual games I just roll my SoB. Decurion Necrons still cry about Celestine, like dude I need to kill each model of you 2 times. And you bitch about a single model of mine?

>>48601406
>i'm too stupid to envisage other rule and point changes being used to balance out a switch
>hurr durr

>>48601460
Yeah, it's a lot of models. Which is probably why it isn't ubiquitous.

>>48601395
Some people vehemently disagree with this in previous threads. I posted this to prove them wrong. If they were MAN enough, they would admit their wrongness.

>>48601478
Wonder if I could do a count as with Imperial models. You know the living saints and legion of the damn (basically Emperor's demons)

>>48601437
Abaddon spent 10K cultivating and harnessing the power of the Warp. The daemons of the four powers are behind him and even the gods themselves are aiding his advance.

>999.M41 The Plague River

>Nurgle’s minions carry his cauldron to the steps of his manse, where he tips open the vessel and pours an immense, plague-filled river through into realspace. The river wends its way into the Cadian Sector, unleashing a jaw-dropping array of filth-bringing Daemons. As the Imperium shudders beneath the first salvos of Abaddon’s brutal conflict, Nurgle seizes the opportunity to distribute his finest epidemics ever further. Diseases infect hive worlds and seep behind fortress walls, weakening the defenders of the Imperium at this most crucial hour…

Horus for the most part relied on the legions only.

>>48601503
>I wonder if I could entirely proxy one of if not the most unfun army in the game using models that aren't even remotely close

>>48601468

You are so pathetic it's funny, dude. It takes a special type of loser to be so miserable in real life he needs to come online and try pitifully to make other people miserable with him.

>>48601358
>>48601503
The people you're trying to troll wouldn't allow that kind of pricy.

Posted from my iPhone.

>>48601287
>Chaos is about to throw out their greatest invasion ever seen
>Imperium is falling apart, on its last legs at the fringes and almost everything it uses these days is strictly inferior to the stuff being thrown around in the Horus Heresy
>Imperium also has to simultaneously deal with the Tyranids, Necrons, somewhat with the Tau (though they're honestly helping the Imperium by being a buffer) and a bunch of other minor races at the same time

Jesus Christ no wonder all the prophecies are saying Abbadon will reach Terra. Mankind stands virtually no chance of winning via conventional warfare at this rate.

>>48601518
>Horus for the most part relied on the legions only.
if that were the case the imperial army wouldn't have been broken up after the heresy, and mars wouldn't have been even more techno-fucked than usual

>>48601598
Point is that Horus didn't unleash the full might of Chaos. Abaddon is going breakdown the gates of hell and unleash its contents on the galaxy. The walls of reality have never been thinner so there is no shortage of daemonic reinforcements.

https://twitter.com/thetowerofstars/status/760503644076793856

>>48601576
Try not to be a brain-dead moron next time. That way someone won't call you out on it and trigger you.

>>48601627
>Point is that Horus didn't unleash the full might of Chaos.
so say that the first time around instead of lying for a cheap (you)

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>>48601580
>>48601553
You make me sad. But I see your point.

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>>48601646

It seems we have awakened the dragon

>>48601649
It wasn't a lie. Horus usage of warp powers in the HH was menial compared to CSM of 41K.

Abaddon and his allies are unleashing massive warp storms and a daemonic tide across the Imperium (Curse of the Wulfen), while psykers are exploding into Chaos portals on a thousand worlds. (Great awakening), and most important of all Abaddon wants to unleash the Eye on the whole galaxy. Heck, an entire segmentum went dark from the daemonic incursions and rebellions.

Compared to that what the HH legions did was nothing. They corrupted half of Mars with a daemon code and made a Ruinstorm which is a storm the size of a sector. Very impressive. Stop being mad and accusing for no real reason.

>>48601627
>>48601649
Have we ever actually gotten a figure on the number Chaos daemons you'd see in a typical planetary incursion? Daemons strike me as being unpleasantly plentiful but I don't imagine they're on an Ork or Tyranid scale of numbers.

>>48601707
Let's assume for a minute that IG-anon wasn't being a massive moron. Why are you feeding me (You)'s?

>>48601710
>Horus usage of warp powers in the HH was menial compared to CSM of 41K.
right

>It wasn't a lie.
Yes it was. Horus and the legions had a high integration with the imperial army and the adeptus mechanicus. That is why space marines don't have direct command of the imperial guard in 40k, and a good part of why the mechanicus are so isolationist.

>>48601719
I don't think you'll ever see hard numbers for that. It's like trying to count the heads in an ork waagh or tyranid hive fleet.

>>48601719
Definitely not on a massive scale like Orkz on Tyranids. A few billion if somebody's actively calling them in. They're quite elite in terms of capability when they're fully formed in realspace.

That being said, trying to put numbers to anything in a Daemonic incursion is a bitch. Half the Daemons there might not be in physical forms, Lessers are being banished and summoned all the time through simple Warp exposure and losing energy.

It's honestly probably less effective to measure a Daemonic incursion in numbers of Daemons, and instead measure them in their non-numerical size, scope, organisation and purpose.

>>48601710
Also I would like point out again that Horus relied mostly on the legions to do the fighting. The daemons were left to their devices for the most part and weren't in his direct control.

And about Mars. Abaddon discovered the secret hidden Mars. He knows about the Dragon and the Great Lie of Mars.. You think he won't use it to create a schism in Mars that will make what came before it look like a lovers quarrel.

>>48601765

It's a slow morning, and it's fun. Why not?

>>48601767
>Yes it was. Horus and the legions had a high integration with the imperial army and the adeptus mechanicus. That is why space marines don't have direct command of the imperial guard in 40k, and a good part of why the mechanicus are so isolationist.

What the heck are you on about? I am talking about daemonic assistance and earp powers and you on something else. You are confused.

>>48601719
Daemons are infinite as long as the Chaos portals remain active.

>Walked into work
>Forgot its the start of my Vacation
>Text mate that I have the day off and want to play 40k
>"Hell yeah, 2000pts in two hours"

He is bringing his Necrons this time against my RW/DW.
Haven't gotten a game in a couple weeks so being able to find this pick up game so easily was pretty good.
He said he isn't bringing his wraiths this time which is good because they devoured all my Deathwing when we played 1500.
Guessing it will be a bunch of warriors and the HQ/Lich deathstar.

>>48601780
>Archmagos, the Warmaster of Chaos tells us our God is a lie!
>So? He does that all the time, why are you telling me?
>He says we're actually worshipping Xenos!
>Seriously, why are you telling me the mad, objectively illogical ravings of a madman?

>>48600422
>he dindu nuffin
Everybody knows that.

Well, aside from certain Carnac imitators trying to shit up the threads.

He literally did nothing. No reason to be pissed. Kids will throw tantrums, but no harm done, so just move on man. Picking on the angsty teenager stopped being fun a long time ago.

>>48601799
> I am talking about daemonic assistance and earp powers and you on something else.

>Horus for the most part relied on the legions only.

I pointed out your error, don't get all upset bro.

can we get one codex for chaos again in 8th please

>>48601768
Daemons are infinite. As long as a rift in reality exists, daemons will continue to pour out. The Warp is a whole universe of its own and its full of them to the brim.

Lets not forget the time when a warp rift opened nearby a tendril of a hive fleet. The daemons manifested inside the hive ship and they slowly started to tear apart the tendril. This implies that the daemons were overwhelming the nids with their numbers.

>>48601826
i think we wont see codexes anymore in 8th when ever it will come around, prepare for stat cards that come with your models in box

Just like in AoS

>>48601199
Ad mech

>>48601825
Okay, Legions and other elements of the Imperium that he converted. I should have said relied on mortals mostly. Still my main point stand.

>>48601831
I think you mean daemons are unending. But they aren't infinite. There is a finite, extremely large number of daemons, that don't die when they are killed.

>>48601845
That would be awesome. Just release one big rulebook, have stat cards for every model that includes descriptions of every special rule that applies to them, and free pdfs of Force Organization Charts and Decurions.

>>48601817
He will kill the Emperor and take his place though. It has been foreseen.

>>48601862
>I think you mean daemons are unending. But they aren't infinite. There is a finite, extremely large number of daemons, that don't die when they are killed.

Not really. The Warp is not bound by linear time. So every daemon that ever existed and ever will exist is in there and can invade real space once a rift is open.

>>48601831
>Daemons are infinite
Practically, yes. But the Warp still has a spacial reference, hell, it even has a clear, if somewhat malleable temporal reference. Daemons can't just appear wherever they want in the galaxy at any one time. That being said, yeah, you're probably not going to beat them in a war of attrition.

>The Warp is a whole universe of its own
While true, it's still currently undecided whether or not Chaos inhabits the entire Warp. Such is unlikely unless you believe the "infinite universes," blurb, which has a whole bucket of problems all on its own.

>This implies that the Daemons were overwhelming the 'Nids with their numbers
It implies they had a massive force, yeah, but you definitely don't need to outnumber 'Nids or even approach their level to beat them. Chaos fucking with the Shadow and Hivemind would be enough, were it a swift or heavy attack to throw the Hives into disarray, enough for the (mostly) "physically," superior Daemonic armies to chew through them. One should also consider that Hive Fleets themselves are fundamentally less well-prepared for personal infantry-scale combat before they reach a planet, which is usually when they start churning out their many more dangerous warrior-forms.

>>48600960
>But they are, how many fantasy players was in your region?
In my area, we had an 80 player tournament where they had to make a system to make sure we had enough games for a proper spread, and still had the time to finish during a time span of Friday to Sunday.

Then AoS rolls around, and all attempts at any kind of campaign/event is gone, because they can't get more than 4 people to sign up for it.
>inb4 anecdotal
No more than your examples.

>>48601879
That's still a finite number.

Infinite is not simply "really really really big".

>>48600899
Already been posted on natkfa m8

>>48601287
>>48601287
Horus was already in realspace you dumb trump supporter - he wasn't invading
It's like saying the kkk states invaded the USA

>>48600973
Never heard of any Warhammer fantasy bans

But alright, some stores are retarded enough to ban Forgeworld, so I guess they would also be dumb enough to ban Warhammer fantasy.

>>48601890
Not all of us go on natkfa so it was news to me.

>>48601887
Eh, I'd argue that the number of Daemons is essentially infinite and that their incursions are limited by the number of Daemons in that "region" of Warpspace and how thin the barrier between Warpspace and Real Space is and how much energy is being poured into pulling then across.

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>>48601885
>While true, it's still currently undecided whether or not Chaos inhabits the entire Warp. Such is unlikely unless you believe the "infinite universes," blurb, which has a whole bucket of problems all on its own.

Chaos is Warp and the Chaos is Chaos. All of it is the Realm of Chaos. It's a mistake to think that the Warp is separate from Chaos. Going by what ADB said ( if you choose to believe him), the Chaos Gods ARE the Warp.

>One should also consider that Hive Fleets themselves are fundamentally less well-prepared for personal infantry-scale combat before they reach a planet, which is usually when they start churning out their many more dangerous warrior-forms.

The Hive fleet was in the middle of chewing on a maiden world before the Dark Eldar caused a rift that summoned the daemons.

>>48601014
Nope.

My local GW is selling tons of models to 9th age fags, and they have openly played it while a country manager was around for a day to check up on the store.

They are giving the rules to AoS for free, they don't give a shit about what rules you are using. They just want you to buy models, and if 9th age does that, then they get to sell models WITHOUT worrying about making rules for it, and they even get free advertising from 9th age fags. Win/win for GW.

>>48601918
The Warp is Chaos.

>>48601897
Actually all GW-stores can ban WHFB.

>>48601845
Nah there'll be even more codexes with each faction split even further - like orcs have 2 battletomes already with ogres at least 1 and they still have to get around to goblins

>>48601887
Daemons are continuously being spawned and they are immortal and undying. Remove linear time, you basically have an infinite number of them. An endless wave of them, that will not cease until the breach that spawned thrm is closed.

>>48601918
>Chaos is Warp and the Chaos is Chaos. All of it is the Realm of Chaos. It's a mistake to think that the Warp is separate from Chaos.

This is the core of the argument, though. There's a lot of people (myself included) that believe Chaos, at least as we know it, are limited to the Milky Way galaxy and slightly beyond, due to their fundamental nature as being born by the galaxy's emotions.

Honestly the writers are probably just as confused, considering the minimal communication between them. There are likely writers that believe Chaos is infinite and time/space has no meaning in the Warp whatsoever while others would argue it's mostly just a malleable reference.

It really is one of the most disagreed upon pieces of 40k canon.

>>48601928
which country are you in? England here and I'm wondering if perhaps its a regional thing

The rules for independent characters state that they cannot join units with vehicles in them (why would this be a thing, but I digress).

The rules for dedicated transports say they count as part of the unit they were taken with. Additionally, they can only take at the start of the game the unit they were chosen for+any independent characters that fit.

The rules for transports (generally) say that any unit+independent characters embarked in them are automatically joined together.

So if I stuff a Primarch and some Ultramarines in a dedicated transport rhino, is the primarch part of the rhino's unit or not?

>>48601406
You are removing entire squads with cheap wyverns, you little bitch.

Kill yourself IG faggots.

>>48601961
I think the key word here is "join units," rather than "be part of units." The Primarch would be part of the Rhino's unit but would not have explicitly joined it, which might refer to the IC's ability to join and leave units both before and after the start of the game.

That's just how I'd rationalise it, though.

Alright guys just bear with me right now and don't dismiss me as retarded just yet.

Games workshop loved to play up the whole good heroes vs bad heroes shtick constantly, and if the Horus heresy is anything to go by, abbadon will be facing a single supreme champion of humanity when he emerges from the warp to assfuck Terra 8 ways from Sunday.

But here is what I'm thinking.The champion of humanity won't be the emperor(who may of may not be revived), but instead it will be non other than Horus lupercal. I'm not just saying this to be edgy I've actually thought this through.

See when the final duel occurred between the EoM and HL, right before emps "wiped Horus and his soul from existance" he noticed Horus repent for a split second, where he realized how far he'd been corrupted. To me this means heresy and choas were purged from Horus before he was obliterated. My thought is that before the penultimate battle(if we ever get a 40k end times) Horus will return from the warp, leading the lost primarchs to break the siege of Terra and defeat his own legion led by abbadon.

Thoughts?

>>48601973

>complaining about IG being overpowered

wow, you are trash

>>48601991
While it's not retarded, repentance does not equate to purity. Chaos corruption is a tangible cancer of the soul. Simply stating, even if it's as true as you can mentally bring yourself to tell the truth, that you do not serve Chaos and want to repent, does not change the fact that your literal essence, mind, body, soul, is ravaged by a semi-conscious corruption that does not entirely care what you think.

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>>48601949
You want me to blow your mind? The fantasy setting has a multiverse where Chaos constantly invade universes and realities.

We know from sources as recent as the Liber Chaotica (a fantasy dude discovers the 40K universe and watches its events) and the End Times (40K easter eggs) that 40K is apart of that multiverse. There is also the comment in the WD interview about the release of the 7th ED and 6th ED daemon codexes which says characters are one and the same in whatever reality they choose to manifest (picture related).

Going back to 40K, Chaos invades Necron dimensions and the Mandrake shadow realm.

What does that all of that mean? Chaos is more than this 40K universe.

>>48601803
Not worth bringing up unless you play a game in the office! Do it anon!

>Terminators deepstrike mishaps into the coffee mug
>Xerox all the army bases

>Chaos Undivided is a very confusing concept, especially due to the way one particular edition made it a little "gamey" and changed the lore quite a lot. That was in a very expansionist phase of the hobby, so a lot of players came into 40K seeing it as the truth, but there's a pretty simple way to view the Warp in moments like this.

>The Four Powers are Chaos.

>There's no Chaos Undivided, and references to Undivided as a "thing" are rarer and rarer. No more Mark of Chaos Undivided, for example. No more references to daemons of Chaos Undivided (not that there were many, anyway). The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

>The worship of Chaos Undivided is the worship of Chaos as a concept, made manifest in the presence of the pantheon. It's the worship of all four gods equally, or the ignorance of all of them, not realising that they're The Truth of the warp. They can say they pray to the concept of Chaos itself, and that's all fine and good. But Chaos, in real terms, is the Four Gods and everything that comes from them. In this example, a follower of Chaos Undivided will still be getting mutations and blessings from the Four Gods (or their lesser manifestations) he'll just view it in different terms. The pantheon blesses him, or the warp itself reaches out to exalt him. It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh."

>As editions roll out, and as Black Library gets edited tighter with delicious, beloved fact-checkers, a lot of year 2000-style / 3rd-Ed holdovers seem to be mentioned less and less, or simply never again.

-ADB (source http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260128-chaos-undivided-confusion/#entry3165636)

Posting ADB's commnts about Chaos for FYI.

He makes the most sense.

>>48602031
Oh I already know all of those, but the argument still continues. It's the general fate of 40k canon due to us growing used to terrible inconsistency and being forced to apply our own headcanons at times.

Blanks and the nature of Chaos are two things in particular that GW, through their writing, have had the fandom separate opinions on regardless of how official they make it (doesn't help that they are only somewhat specific about it, instead of just coming out and telling everyone.)

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So, can anyone who is much more up to fluff than I am explain what this might mean? Obviously it has to do with the end times for the Eldar but does anyone know anything more than that?

>>48602108
Ynnead is come.

>>48601933
You cant play out of print GW games in a GW brick and mortar. If your store manager allows it he is either breaking policy, or has permission from his manager.

>>48602052
Fuck that faggot and his rambling. Undivided is not a difficult concept, he's just an idiot who makes it into one.

>>48602108
Yriel is going to become head of the harlequin faction as the champion of cegorach
Dark eldar will be stuffed down slaanesh throat and whilst it reels from the overload eldar will loot her and get their souls back and break the link to all eldar

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>mfw i want warzone fenris chaos daemons incursion stuff
>mfw i must choose between a $65 campaign book which i won't be using half of or $25 mobi book i will be using on my phone

>>48602052
>fuck the undivided; let's do more khorne, a good amount of nurgle, a smidge of tzeentch and fuck off slaanesh

if they just admitted they like khorne and nurgle the best i wouldn't be upset i'd understand, but this is just bullshitting about nothing.

>>48602239
Yeah chaos is a gestalt of the 4 plus the ocean of souls - but if you want to interact with chaos person to entity you have to almost always go via one of them
Exceptions are belakor, furies (unless they've been retconned) and whatever powers living saints and the loyal primarchs

>>48602239
>>48602052
>Chaos undivided is a difficult concept
>explains it perfectly and logically in a single, simple parahraph

>>48602239
Actually, he is just explaining GW's position. I mean they did make Be'lakor the one and only Daemon Prince of Undivided and in fantasy they made Archaon the only Champion of Chaos Undivided.

So it's an obviously GW policy of scrubbing Undivided from the setting or limiting it because as a concept it did not fit the setting.

>>48602271
He just saying the Lorgar's and Word Bearers faith of Chaos undivided is bullshit. There is no such thing as Chaos undivided in the Warp outside of Be'lakor.

>>48602270
Furies are unaligned, they are not Undivided.

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I'm losing my enthusiasm for this game bros. The busiest as best flgs in town hardly sees and 40k play anymore. They've pretty much dropped the game.
The other, new flgs has an anti-GW atmosphere, and plays everything but 40k/fantasy.
The GW is almost excusively Age of Sigmar.

There is an ITC rules league with like 8 guys. They all play absurdly cheesy netlists. 3 Eldar, 1 Tau + Knights, 1 Daemon summoning spam.. not sure what else. But yeah, fuck that.

Theres no one left to play 40k with around here. In the past year its gone from a huge playerbase with pick up games vs. any army - to nothing. Unless you count a handful of ultra-WAAC guys.

I think Im gonna have to hang it up until next edition, I have no other option really. I guess Im gonna have to learn how to play Infinity.

>>48602271
>yet has to start the whole bit with "Chaos Undivided is a very confusing concept".

I mean, what's the problem, other than Undivided making Carnac's waifu less special of a snowflake?

>>48602305
I'm sure he is, but the fact that he has to twist and turn it like all the people who blame the problems the game has on the players and tells people who don't like the new retcons to go fuck themselves.

>>48602346
i guess you should also try finding out if anyone is doing it casually or try to build a group. idk if you have the time or space to build your own table and terrain but that's also an option

you could pick up malifaux, it uses cards instead of dice. it's about the same size in miniatures but a skirmish game. summoning is still a big deal there though so be warned.

>>48602336
>Furies are unaligned, they are not Undivided.

And the difference is?

I have two factions that are battlebrothers. I know I can join an independent character from the one to the other, but can I do so at deployment?

>>48602379
>what's the problem

Gave people the idea that Chaos was more the Four. People thought they can circumvent the worship of the Four by worshipping Chaos Undivided as if it's a real entity in the Warp. Worshipping Chaos and pretending it's not actually just the Four. It was problematic for GW who spent decades fluffing the Chaos Gods and giving them character. They can't have the fans just ignoring them. That's my opinion on the why. Also I think they wanted Abby and Belly-Kun to be special.

>>48602386
Undivided means that all Four Chaos Gods bless and empower you. They all have equal share in your soul.

Unaligned like the Furies means that the Chaos Gods are not interested in you or don't want you.

Oh cool I just realized the FAQ says librarians can only cast a number of powers per turn equal to the mastery level of the unit's best psyker. What's the fucking point of a librarius conclave then? I'm paying the points for three psykers but I only get two powers a turn between them, who cares if they manifest on 2+ instead of 4+? I'm already going to have more warp dice than I can possibly use.

>>48602463
That's bullshiting of the 4 are all there is then furies have to get their power from them

The guy in here is better than Failbaddon in every way.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10376744/1/Warband-of-the-Forsaken-Sons

>>48602538
The Furies are spawned in the Formless Wastes which is natural ground where no god holds sway.

>>48602108
>One shall walk the forked path
Yriel is a go

>A threefold truth to weave the skein
skein is fate, being set by "threefold truth", the nature of the Eldar? - (Ask not the Eldar a question, for they will give you three answers, all of which are true and terrifying to know.)

>Nemesis of She who thirsts
Ynnead/Cegorach, probably the latter because

>Opener of the seventh way
Probably refers to Cegorach's last jest.

>Long-dead souls gather behind
Eldar Ghost constructs
>The Rebirth of Ancient Days
Iyanden
>Drinking, but not consuming
>Taking in, but giving new life
Going to go out on a limb and guess that it refers to reincarnation through Cegorach's gambit? Former line feels to be about taking in souls or life force, latter seems to be about rebirth.

>>48602610
>Yriel is a go

Illic. It's bloody Illic Nightspear. You know, the guy whose name is synonymous with the Rhana Dandra among the Outcasts and Alaitoc. The guy destined to stop it.

>>48602556
>https://www.fanfiction.net

>>48602638
It is actually good.
Also this guy wrote the fic where the Smurfs are the traitors instead of Horus.

>>48602108

Eldrad is dead, how is he back?

Does this take place in the past like Deathwatch: Overkill?

>>48602681
Eldrad hasn't been dead for like a decade.

>>48602704

What?

>>48602718
He got better.

>>48602442
Did it? I've never come across people who believed this. Maybe total n00bs, but they just needed some explaining. Still sounds like GW making up shit to push their new crap.

If there's just the 4 and nothing unites them, why is there a thing called "Chaos" and why does it have its own symbol, rather than there just being the 4 symbols of the gods? Worshiping Chaos, the pantheon and the goals of the dark gods as a whole should still be a thing and the dark gods granting you blessings based on your dedication to the cause. Because with the new fluff, it actually makes no sense for there to be just generic mutations and corruption, it must be the work of a single deity. Not multiple of them, they'd never all give power to a single being. So all mutations and corruption always comes from a single source. Chaos on itself does not corrupt anything, it has no power, there's just the four gods.

>>48602463
>Undivided means that all Four Chaos Gods bless and empower you.

What is Chaos Ascendant then?

>>48602725

I see, how did he undie?

>>48602744
Turned back time to when the 13th black crusade was only just beginning,

>>48602515
perhaps don't put them in the same unit?
Otherwise yes, your paying for multiple librarians to cast better

Tyranid FAQ is up.
Turns out spawned (and by extention, summoned) units are part of the detachment that they were spawned from?

>>48602515
Where does it say that? all it says is that psykers can cast as many powers as their mastery level, not the unit can cast as many powers as the highest mastery level among psykers in that unit.

>>48602757

I seriously thought he was dead, wew.

So was his dying Retconned? I thought he got eaten by Slaanesh.

>>48602730
>What is Chaos Ascendant then?

Super Chaos Undivided. It's the 40K version of Everchosen. It means you speak with the authority of the Four Chaos Gods. Everything beneath the Chaos Gods is under your command.

> it must be the work of a single deity. Not multiple of them, they'd never all give power to a single being. So all mutations and corruption always comes from a single source. Chaos on itself does not corrupt anything, it has no power, there's just the four gods.

Khayon in Talon of Horus explains how mutations work. The mutations are not random. They manifest according to the personality of the afflicted or something to this effect. Don't remember the exact wording.

>>48602632
Illic's is the Hidden path. And since his shtick is stopping the Rhana Dhandra, and this is focusing on Iyanden + Harlequins, it's more likely to be continuing on from Iyanden and telling us what happened to Yriel.

I want Illic to get his time in the sun, but not all the Eldar arcs have to do with him.

>>48602807
13th Black crusade and all the shitshows that happened in it were retconned.

>>48602813
Fair enough.

>>48602775

Where at, anon?

>>48602812
Still wonder why people paint those meaningless stars on their armour and talk of this "Chaos" thing that doesn't exist. Guys, if you don't pick a deity, you're not getting anywhere.

How do multi-god armies even work now? Surely all the various deities would be angry at your lack of dedication to their cause and shit.

>The mutations are not random. They manifest according to the personality of the afflicted or something to this effect.

Who gives them?

>>48602805
librarius conclave you give up manifesting on the other psykers to have one manifest more reliably. FAQ limited manifests to mastery level, so conclave will limit you to the highest mastery level among psykers using that ability.

>>48602850
The GW Facebook page.
Some kind anon may or may not come along with pictures soon enough. There's usually at least 1

>>48600471
No, as long as it's a towing capable vehicle

>>48602856
>>48602856

Its retarded and kills army variety is what it is.

>>48601031
I couldn't agree more on the point about small point games. I've never enjoyed the game above 1000 points, and look at how succesful Kill Team was!

>Q: The Trygon’s Subterranean Assault rule allows one Infantry unit to emerge from its tunnel from Reserve each turn. With the rule only coming into play after the Trygon has arrived from Reserve, and no way of holding back Reserves you intend to bring out of the tunnel, how is this rule ever going to be used?

>A: As described under ‘Reserves’ in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, in a mission with the Reserves rule (which includes all Eternal War and Maelstrom of War missions), players can choose not to deploy some of their units, keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. If these units arrive from Reserves after the Trygon has arrived, one Infantry unit per turn can enter the battlefield from the tunnel rather than the Tyranid player’s table edge.


Does this mean you can choose NOT to deploy units from Reserves, even if you successfully rolled for them that turn?

>>48602879
How do I know if a vehicle is capable of towing something?

>>48602933
No, it means GW is paraphrasing the reserves rules and that you can place units into reserves instead of deploying them

>>48602926

>Nemesis Strike Force
>2 GK Librarians
>5 GKTs
>5 Interceptors
>1 Dreadknight

>Allied Detachment
>Ordos Xenos Inquisitor

This is what I usually run at 1k. Of course I usually get blown off the board but w/e, I set up less than 15 models while my opponents have to put down three or five times that much.

>>48602933
If your infantry turns up before they arrive normally, if after they turn up after they can enter from a tunnel seems to be gist of that answer.

>>48602983
One would assume the vehicle's entry would say it could

>>48602990

That doesn't answer anything then, lazy cunts.

>>48602997

So its still worthless then. Not that anyone would bring a Trygon when the Mawloc exists.

>>48602933
Basically they're telling you "Yeah, your right, the rule is bad but this is an FAQ and it isn't an unclear rule so go away"

About to show all my terrible newness:
How do I know which units get conferred and which don't? Zealot from a Chaplain can be spread to termis but they don't give Deepstrike.

>>48602049
THERE IS NO TIME TO BE LOHST

BATTEL BRUVAHS

SPESS MUHREENS, TODEH THE ENEMY IS AT OUR PHONES! WE KNOW OUR DUTEE AND WE WILL DU IT. WE WORK FOR OUR HONOR, AS BLOD REHVENS, AS OFFICE WORKERS, AND WE WORK IN THE NAME OF THE MIDDLE MANAGER!

And if we get laid off this day, we get laid off in glory, we get heroes' pink slips, but we shall not be fired, no! It is the customer who will taste poor service and defeat!

AS YOU KNOW, Most of ouh battle bruvhas are shtetshioned in WAREHOUSES, preepared to DEEP STRIKE! Ouh perimeter has been preepared in the eevent that ouh enemhees shood be so BALD and so FOOLISH. We have plehced numerous SAFETY VIDEOS, allowing for muhltiple, sim-ul-tan-eous DEEP STRIKES.

The Company Handbook dubs this manuvah Steel Rehn. We will descend upon the customer, we will overwhelm them, we will leave none well-served! Meanwhile our phone forces will ensure the full defenscze of ouh hedqwuahturs.

WE ARE THE SPESS MUHREENS. WE ARE THE MANAGER'S FUREH!

>>48600943
It's a computer game, man

>>48602052
>hurr durr what are furies?
>what were the eldar gods?
The whole point of chaos is that it does whatever the fuck it wants and can be used to drive almost any plot, forcing ANYTHING chaotic to be aligned to one of the big four just hamstrings the potential for any interesting plot.

>>48602856
We have meta-knowledge that Undivided isn't a thing. The guys in the setting don't know that.

When the Undivided guys get blessings/mutations from a singular god, they think it was the work of the whole pantheon.

>How do multi-god armies even work now?

Rarely. Usually, through temporarily pacts and alliances.

>Who gives them?

Depends on the personality the guy I guess. If you have a violent personality you will grow spikes and claws. If you have a devious and deceitful one, you will grow tentacles. It's not hard to guess where those are from.

>>48603009
>still worthless
Its an FAQ, not a new codex or errata. what did you expect?

>>48603050
They have done several erratas with this FAQ.

>>48603035
Usually the rule itself will tell you. There is generally two types of special rules
"If at least one model in a unit has this special rule..."
and
"If all models in the unit have this special rule..."
For formation special rules that specify "the unit" assume the entire unit must have that rule (and must be from the formation) OR that the special rule only applies to models in the unit and does not confer to/from ICs depending on the nature of the rule

>>48603048
>furies

Not Undivided.

>eldar gods

Dead.

And don't get me started on the Khaine being the son of Slaanesh and khorne thing.

>>48602857
Also if you have multiple psykers in the same unit, one can't cast a power if one of the others has already cast it. It's not likely that psykers from different unts will be within 12" of one another unless you're clumping your units together stupidly. So basically I'm thinking you're better off ignoring the "nominate a caster" rule and just using your conclave librarians independently. Still, it lets you ignore FOC slots and it's the only way to take librarians in a Gladius.

>>48603068
So far all the Erratas have been to bring similar-named units in line with the most updated version (dreadnaughts and helbrutes) or fix missing/broken wording
Terror From The Deep is neither of these. Its a bad rule that doesn't work well, but it does work as intended.

>>48602052

Why does ADB's prose sound like a huge wanker faggot? Do his books posses the same quality? Because he sounds like a faggot when talking about the lore.

Daily reminder that MC are OP and that they need to be nurfed

>>48603049
>The guys in the setting don't know that.

But how do they even know about something called "Chaos"? Why do the daemons and gods talk about it? Why does corruption cause Chaos stars to manifest instead of just god specific markings?

>Rarely.

Wouldn't believe it reading the fluff. Every other army, incursion, warband, etc. seems to just ooze multi-god.

>Depends on the personality the guy I guess. If you have a violent personality you will grow spikes and claws. If you have a devious and deceitful one, you will grow tentacles. It's not hard to guess where those are from.

What if it's just a source of Chaos energy acting upon innocent people?

>>48603104
His books are pretty good. Anyways found the part explaining Warp mutations in his novel "Talon of Horus".

>You will hear Imperial preachers cry of warp ‘corruption’; of ‘Chaos’ and its random nature. These are falsehoods. There is a malevolence in the Pantheon, a true and sentient malevolence. The existence of such vast and dark emotion defies the notion of any truly random influence. Both cannot be true.

>The empyrean’s alterations and flesh-changes are not accidental, indiscriminate mutations. The warp, for all its seething madness, hones its chosen. It reshapes them, siphoning the secrets of their souls and writing those truths upon their mortal flesh. When a pilot melts into the console of his fighter or gunship, it is not on the random curse of bodily horror or some unknowable divine whim. For all the pain he endures, he finds his reflexes and reactions far more attuned, as well as taking enhanced chemical and sensory pleasure in the kills he makes in the void. A warrior’s weapons become extensions of his body, reflecting the importance he places upon them in his heart.

>This is the simplest truth of life in the Great Eye. Everyone sees your sins, your secrets and lusts, written plain across your flesh.

>And the warp always has a plan. An infinity of plans. A plan for every soul.

>>48603104
Daily reminder that ADB was hailed as the hero of 40k, because he was a fan and not a suit.
Daily reminder that Ward was the destroyer of 40k, who ruined everything.

>>48603143

Isn't that the same one that takes a huge dump on the Primarch project and the Emperor?

I was told ADB has huge daddy issues and pushes it through with his prose, but I want to be sure this is fact and not some 4chan meme generated by neckbeards.

>>48603143
>There is a malevolence in the Pantheon, a true and sentient malevolence.

That makes it sound awfully like there's more than just 4 individuals at work here.

>>48602052
>It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh."

But that's exactly what the new system is. There is no ambiguity, there's only the four. There's no gifts from all the gods combines, like daemonhood. There's only one of the 4, whether you like it or not. You can dedicate your life to furthering the goals of Chaos, but at the end of the day, you'll be a prince of one of the dark gods.

>>48603082
>not undivided
Semantics.

If you say there is no chaos other than the four then where do unaligned daemons come from, how is it possible for the eldar gods to 'exist'.
Or are the eldar gods going to get retconned in to 'aspects of Slaanesh' with Cegorach being it's traitorous son?

>>48603138
>But how do they even know about something called "Chaos"?

Chaos exists and Chaos is the Four. Undivided doesn't, because the Chaos will always be divided with the exceptions of Be'lakor, Horus, and Abaddon.

>Why does corruption cause Chaos stars to manifest instead of just god specific markings?

I don't think that happens. The mortals paint the stars. I never seen any daemon with an Undivided symbol other than Be'lakor.

>Wouldn't believe it reading the fluff. Every other army, incursion, warband, etc. seems to just ooze multi-god.

With no cohesion or united direction unless pacts were struck before hand.

>What if it's just a source of Chaos energy acting upon innocent people?

The Pantheon. see >>48603143

>>48603087
>Also if you have multiple psykers in the same unit, one can't cast a power if one of the others has already cast it.

FAQ confirmed you can, they cast independently.

>>48603208
>That makes it sound awfully like there's more than just 4 individuals at work here.

More like 4 debating who gets to mutate this mortal or that.

>You can dedicate your life to furthering the goals of Chaos, but at the end of the day, you'll be a prince of one of the dark gods.

Because a certain someone turned them off from the idea of creating Undivided Princes. Undivided Princes are uncontrollable and can be used against them. They learned that the hard way with Be'lakor.

>>48603007
I'm looking at a lot of vehicle entries, and I haven't seen anything so far that indicates something can tow another something.

Is there any 7th edition vehicle you know of that can tow things for sure?

>>48603216
"The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on"

-ADB

If you going say that furies are Undivided, then going by the quote above than the Eldar Gods and Gork&Mork are also Chaos Undivided!

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favorite monstrous creature? i like the keeper of secrets

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>>48603286
Carnifex.

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>>48603286
C'tan Shards.

I like the muscular look and them abs. No homo.

>>48603279
Centaur artillery tractor is the only one afaik.

>>48603286
Wraithlord
>There is 0 wraithlord art

>>48600537
5E CSM was pretty damn good.
Even without the daemon invuln save or IWND, the defiler was underrated.
A friend and I came 1st and second using defilers and jump daemon princes.
Not even relying on lash of submission for blast template cheese.

>>48603284
>If you going say that furies are Undivided, then going by the quote above than the Eldar Gods and Gork&Mork are also Chaos Undivided!

Silly, none of those gods actually exist, its just a cultural manifestation from both of those races. The only REAL, truly existing gods are the Four. =^)

>>48603231
are you sure about that?

>Q: If a unit includes multiple Independent Character Psykers, can they cast the same power (e.g. Psychic Shriek) multiple times, once for each Independent Character?
>A: No.

>>48597385
The Astral Krakens thank you.

>>48603221
>Undivided doesn't, because the Chaos will always be divided with the exceptions of Be'lakor, Horus, and Abaddon.

And all the old Undivided characters, princes, fluff, etc.

Are you one of those fags that thinks "Undivided" is a warp thing and not a mortal concept that has now been labeled as, how you put it, "The Pantheon." It's "Undivided" because you don't worship one god, but all the gods. Your dedication is "undivided", you worship Chaos and all the gods as a whole. And the gifts you get from it are weaker, blessed to you by all the gods at the same time or by individual gods based on whoever happened to be the most pleased with your performance. But you don't get the most powerful blessings, partly because you're not "divided" and because the other gods would certainly object to one god claiming ownership over you.

Undivided lords and princes also benefit the gods because they're impartial and thus make the best general for armies of multiple gods, be it mortal or daemonic. To a mortal being an Undivided prince is to be weaker than a divided one, but also independent of the control of your patron.

This is what Undivided has always been and I do not see how difficult it is to grasp or how it takes away from the four gods.

>>48603261
>a certain someone turned them off from the idea of creating Undivided Princes

Ward? It was Ward, wasn't it?

>>48601062
Renegades and Heretics do towed artillery+blob a hell of a lot better than guard do (hurr durr my barrages and blasts are only bs2, that makes up for being 20pts cheaper), which as bulk infantry allies is exactly what you were wanting.

>>48603413
Yes.
What that question is asking is if they have three psykers in a unit, all with the same power, can one of the psykers cast the same power three times.

>>48603331
This is annoying.

Some vehicles do mention towing explicitly. Some imply it. For instance, the Atlas Support Vehicle explicitly mentions it, while the Trojan implies it.

The Trojan rule Amphibious mentions towing, but doesn't say the trojan can tow. Meanwhile, other vehicles have the amphibious rule and don't mention towing at all.

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>>48603372
looking back at it now it wasn't so bad. different daemon weapons, sonic guns assault2/heavy3, gift of chaos, warptime, unlimited chaos spawn and lesser daemons

>>48603371
i got ya

>>48603486
How do renegades tow artillery? I'm looking at the renegades of vraak datasheets, and I don't see a single vehicle capable of towing things.

>>48603284
They're born from chaos but are not part of any of the big four so yes? They are unaligned.

>>48603371
Wraithlords are sweet, mine has been MVP as fuck in the two games I've brought him. First game he tanking an entire guard gunline (who admittedly had a lack of antitank weaponry)and prevented him from securing the objective with veterans.

>>48603261
>Undivided Princes are uncontrollable and can be used against them

Why? How? Is this ever explained? If not, why?

You can't just make sweeping statements like this and not provide any examples besides one outlier who has been pushed harder than Jon Cena or Roman Reigns.

>>48603491
What? No. It clearly says different psykers cannot cast the same power if they are in the same unit. Syntax, people.

>>48603503
I used towed there as in the opposite of self-propelled or emplaced in a fortification. Probably should have thought a bit better about the language used there though.

>>48603539
It's double weird, since the fluff really goes back and forth on whether or not Be'lakor is totally free of the control of the dark gods, or is he a slave to their will and merely doing what they want.

>>48603562
np. It's actually really frustrating though, because these immobile fortifications have a rule for being towed, but no vehicles in the list can tow them.

>>48602572
The 4 are all there is according to adb so there is no wastes

>>48603556
Execpt that's not what it says.
>can (a psyker in the unit) cast the same power multiple times
>no

>>48602992
Im not sure if youre arguing for or against my point. The GK's are supposed to be elite and have a low model count, its just unfortunate that because GW no longer view 40k as a skirmish game that GKs are not balanced with low point games in mind. Youll get the same problems at most point levels when you're dealing with a ruleset as fractured as 40k is.

>>48603637
>according to adb
don't trust his lies

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>>48603503
>>48603579

The thing you are looking for exists, its called the Atlas Recovery Tank

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>>48603484
>>48603484
>And all the old Undivided characters, princes, fluff, etc.

Retconned. No longer exist or have been made singular aligned.

>mortal concept

It's a mortal concept, yes. You can worship the Chaos Gods as a group all you want but the Chaos Gods will NEVER bless you as a group. You want to repeat what happened with Be'lakor? The Chaos Gods are not that dumb. No way they would hand over so much power to someone they cannot control unless they desperately have to like with Horus and Abaddon. Even then, they are going to test and torment these guys constantly. Abaddon is in a constant struggle with the Chaos Gods over his Undivided state and he can only endure because he is that awesome.

>The Chaos Gods after Be'lakor shafted them : Undivided was a mistake!

>>48603539
Be'lakor couldn't be controlled by the Chaos Gods. He was sworn to all of them and he used this to serve none of them. Each one of the gods yearned to claim him for his/her side and Be'lakor took advantage of this. He turned them against each other and swindled them out of their blessings and gifts. He was punished for it and the Chaos Gods knew the folly of creating an Undivided Daemon Prince.

Because now thinks he is free. However, he is not. The Chaos Gods cannot control him directly but they can influence his actions. Each gods use as beatstick the Great Game of Chaos against his rivals. What Be'lakor thinks as rebellion against the Chaos Gods is a sham. He is fulfilling the myriad agendas and engaging rivalries of the Chaos Gods unknowingly.

>>48603646

I'm arguing for. I'm being self-chastising because my list could use more bodies but I prefer more HQs, an Inquisitor and Interceptors.

>>48603663
Not available for renegades.

>>48603663
It's not in IA 13 under the renegades list which is what they mean.

>>48603318
What are they reading?

>>48603669
>Be'lakor couldn't be controlled by the Chaos Gods. He was sworn to all of them and he used this to serve none of them. Each one of the gods yearned to claim him for his/her side and Be'lakor took advantage of this. He turned them against each other and swindled them out of their blessings and gifts. He was punished for it and the Chaos Gods knew the folly of creating an Undivided Daemon Prince.

Okay but why did that put him outside of their control? Because they were too busy fighting over him to give out a unified command? You aren't explaining this and what i'm reading so far elsewhere doesn't explain why Undivided princes are suddenly immune to their commands.

>>48603637
There is Formless Wastes. It's called the Chaos Abyss. It's the trashbin of Chaos where the Chaos Gods throw their trash aka furies and rebellious daemons.

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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/08/gw-youll-never-guess-whos-back.html

Someone reassure me that we're being fucked with

#MATTHAMMER2017
#MWGA

MAKE WARHAMMER GREAT AGAIN

M A T T H A M M E R

>>48603726
What's he gonna do, write a broken codex?

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If I attach an IC to a unit that benefits from this rule, can I bring the IC back if that unit is destroyed?

>>48603705
>Because they were too busy fighting over him to give out a unified command?

The Chaos Gods natural state is always to be fighting each. This means the Undivided Princes most of the time will be free to do any agenda they wish. He can choose to aid any god against the other or he can choose to aid none. You see what the issue here for the jealous and suspicious Chaos Gods? They have a potential thorn in their side that they created. He is outside their direct control unlike singular daemons.

>>48603743
>What's he gonna do, write a broken codex?
Nah he was hiring as "Rhana Dandra expert".

>>48603675
Yeah that's always the case with 40k at low points. I'm always tempted to sink 400 of my 1k points into heroes. I miss 2nd, and to a lesser extent 3rd, ed Hero Hammer. Im hoping playing Heralds of Ruin will replicate some of that feeling.

>>48603760

I don't see how its not the opposite, with all four of them pulling him in so many directions at once that it shreds his mind and soul-stuff into fragmented pieces from the torrent of their competing and varied attentions.

>>48601864
>He will kill an old man on perpetual life support who can't even speak, much less move
Truly the greatest warrior in the galaxy. How will the imperium stand up against such a foe?

>>48603158
Yes he does
Read Aurelian - it's about how daddy keeps belittling everything you do whilst praising your elder brother and that justified you being a cunt to everyone else
Add in obligatory female idiot waifu

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>>48601806
Made me chuckle

>>48603748
Probably not, for one the IC isn't attached when you write the army list and for another FAQs on similar rules (mainly Chenkov's conscripts) in past editions has been against. But I'm sure you can argue the toss about ICs counting as part of the unit if you really care to, bonus points if you find a way to attach someone like Celestine, Yarrick or a Necron Lord to it and have them both come back a life on the table and enter as reserves.

>>48601933
>can
Keyword. They won't if they sell well, and most stores around here isn't selling anyone fantasy models if those people aren't allowed to use them for games other than AoS.

>>48603799
It depends on who has the strongest pull at any given time. Be'lakor is a slave to the Great Game, its changes and shifts influence his actions.

>>48603800
Hey, the emperor's got the advantage there. He still has one of his arms

>>48603836
So when writing out an army list, you can't attach ICs? That has to be done in deployment?

>>48603800
In all fairness Emps can slow down time in His throne room.

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>>48603313
They're just so fucking great. Shame they don't get talon re-rolls anymore

>>48603669
>Retconned.

I'm fully aware of that. Thank you.

What I'm saying is there was never any problems and this is all a bunch of bullshit they're shoveling over whatever reason they had for axing it. There was never any problems with Undivided and this is just someone at GW being really desperately pushing for this new narrative for some reason.

>the Chaos Gods will NEVER bless you as a group

Then why do they keep bringing up this "The Pantheon" all the time.

>You want to repeat what happened with Be'lakor?

Yes. Multiple times. Your waifu is shit. Fuck him and fuck this shit that can't even decide if Be'lakor is free or bound by the dark gods.

>No way they would hand over so much power to someone they cannot control

How about you don't make them powerful? I mean, what the fuck stops a god or all the gods from pulling back their support for a DP? They've done it before. And if Khorne alone can fuck up Skarbrand, his most powerful GD (of the most powerful god), how much power does an Undivided DP have, considering they're weaker than a marked DP?

>>48603669
>Be'lakor couldn't be controlled by the Chaos Gods.

Sure doesn't seem like it.

>"When the Daemon brought down a champion of Nurgle, invariably he was doing Tzeentch’s bidding, and while laying a warrior of the Blood God low he was the fulfilling the will of Slannesh. Be’lakor remains blind to these manipulations of the gods. His own thirst for power and the pleasure of proving his mastery over rival champions of Chaos seems enough to make him forget the sorcerous tethers the gods continually try and wind tightly around his neck."

>>48603844

I'm not convinced that there can't be more Undivded stuff or princes, but that it should be Very Rare. Like your 0-1 army choice, your Chapter Master, or whatever, and then cost it appropriately. Maybe even have special rules that makes it a double-edged sword to try and court all four gods at once.

>>48603856
Yes.

>>48602015
No, I am claiming you have overpowered choices, and wyverns are Riptide levels of absurd in terms the cost. Literally nothing equal to its cost can deal with it, and every time they get even one turn of shooting, they will always earn at least their own points back. They can effortlessly kill twice their cost per turn.

Even the riptide will struggle to do that, unless you are packing terminators close to each other.

I would much rather face 200 points of riptides than 200 points of wyverns.

>>48603743
Wouldn't want that, now would we? Would ruin the balance of the game.

>>48603642
"They" in this case refers to "multiple psykers in the unit" not "each psyker"

>>48603901
Chaos undecided is usually venerating chaos as a pantheon and getting truly random rewards from the whimsy of the various powers.

Undecided demon princes should be extraordinarily rare, but I don't think undecided champions and followers should be that uncommon. If anything, they would be the most common of all slaves to darkness. Most aren't privy to the intricacies of the warp, they only know that chaos exists. It takes time and dedication to truly devote yourself to a single god.

>>48603919
>Literally nothing equal to its cost can deal with it
Land speeder with mulit-melta.

>>48603985


Agreed.

'extremely rare' is better than 'THERE CAN ONLY BE THIS ONE, AND ITS A CANON CHARACTER WE'RE PUSHING AS THE GREATEST MANIPULATOR AND WARRIOR KING EVER SRSLY GUISE'

>>48603985
This. Though don't know if they should be extraordinarily rare. There's plenty in the fluff. They could just be the weakest, since they'd only have the most basic gifts and powers vs. marked gifts and powers. But they could have the benefit of making mixed god armies. At least in daemon armies.

Like in WHFB, where the mark of your general limited your choice of troops, but an Undivided prince as your general let you mix your daemons, but left you unable to take a greater daemon as your general nor take any of the god specific gifts and powers for the DP. Either you have a strong mono-god army or a varied multi-god army.

AOS general Guys tell me I shouldn't start playing 40k, cause the rules are a clusterfuck. I read over some of the AOS rules, and they scare me a bit because they are so vague.

I should say they just built a new Games Workshop store very close to me, and their are other FLGS that play warhammer near me.

I have been reading Rules for a few years now, and have finally decided to go with Necrons. I bought the codex at the store, and the Manager informed me that AOS is much easier to get into, and recommended me some stuff.

I know this is the 40k general, but is it still an okay time to start? I feel so invested in 40k already, and was planning on getting a Start Collecting! box of Necrons. Should I just scrap it and read more AOS?

>>48604055
>Should I just scrap it and read more AOS?
This, because 40k is dying.

>>48604049

In Age of Shitmar daemon princes can be undivded and Be'lakor hasn't been mentioned at all.

>>48603967
It's asking if a psyker in the unit can cast a power multiple times because there is a psyker in the unit with the same power.

Read the rest of the FAQ, there is a more relevant question there.

>>48604055
>I bought a codex
>I'm so invested
Really?

>>48604055
If you want too many rules that are on the same page as a unit's stats, read more AoS. If you want slightly less rules (but still too many) where you have to cross-reference and flip through three or four different books to keep track of them all, read 40k.

Or just wait until the next edition of 40k, which will be out by next Summer.

>>48603919
>Literally nothing equal to its cost can deal with it

Just wait until FW slips Phospex mortars into 40k. 4 shot of S4 AP3 Blast, Barrage, Poison (3+) and leaves behind a small blast sized Dangerous Terrain that moves around for the rest of the game. Imagine dropping a few dozen of those per turn onto the table.

>>48603896
>Then why do they keep bringing up this "The Pantheon" all the time.

Because Chaos/Warp is ruled by a single Pantheon of Gods and their struggle against each other. We can call them the Council and it wouldn't make a difference.

>that can't even decide if Be'lakor is free or bound by the dark gods.

Check the beginning of his dataslate. They cannot control him directly. See >>48603844. He is a slave to the Great Game more than he a servant of the gods.

>How about you don't make them powerful?

Then what's the point of making them? The followers of Chaos won't follow weaklings.

>I mean, what the fuck stops a god or all the gods from pulling back their support for a DP?

The Daemon Prince himself. There are stories of daemons who rebelled against the Chaos Gods and became their own gods forging their own kingdoms in the Formless Wastes.

Be'lakor escaped to real space to flee the Chaos Gods wrath. They drained him of most of his power but not all of it. Now he is steadily gaining it back and plotting their downfall.

>how much power does an Undivided DP have, considering they're weaker than a marked DP?

Be'lakor despite his depowerment remains the mightiest daemon prince. A natural result of having the might of the four pouring into him.

>>48604055

>and they scare me a bit because they are so vague.

Not as vague as you think. Download the 40k rulebook and try reading it, chances are its going to turn you off much worse. Its a huge dense clusterfuck of confusing rules interactions.

My advice? Try AoS, and if you want to play 40k later, use the models for 40k. Hell, if you went Chaos Daemons you could jump between both games without any problems!

>>48604086
If only I gave two Sigmar about it.

>>48604055
If you prefer the fluff and aesthetics of 40k play 40k, if you prefer the fluff and aesthetics of AOS play AOS, if you prefer the rules to fluff and just want to play a well balanced game avoid GW. Ignore whatever the hell a redshirt in GW tells you, it's literally his job to try and sell you on GW's latest offering.

>>48604090
>Q: If a unit includes multiple Independent Character Psykers, can THEY cast the same power (e.g. Psychic Shriek) multiple times, once for EACH Independent Character?

See the word THEY there? It doesn't say "a psyker", does it? No. It says "they".

>>48604121

You should, they're probably going to adapt stuff from it for 8th edition.

>>48604055
40k is only worth it if you can get casual games, the rules are only a shitshow if your opponent decides he's going to make it one.

>>48604084
Nice meme.

>>48604163

Play some of their boardgames though. Silver Tower is actually pretty damn fun.

>>48604200
>Silver Tower is actually pretty damn fun.
Or just buy cheaper and better Descent.

>>48604086
Be'lakor is mentioned in the Grand Alliance Chaos book as the First Everchosen of Chaos who got bored of his position so he quit his jump and went to pursue his own agenda.

Anyways, you can play UNMARKED champs and daemons-Ps in the TT but it has no relevance in the fluff. There is one Undivided Daemon and there is one Undivided Champion.

The Allgate book spells it out clearly. Archaon is the only Champion of Chaos Undivided.

>>48604049
>Though don't know if they should be extraordinarily rare
Well, I mean, 1/5 is pretty rare.

Basically I'd rather see marks (including undecided) get made less common and more significant, while the base troops should be made un-shit to compensate for the loss of cheap marks. Maybe even some kind of botched Fury of the Legion for the marines to represent the fact that many went through that training.

re-adopting the WHFB army limitations would be a step towards giving undivided warlords a reason to exist. Maybe some kind of chapter tactics/doctrina imperative-esque bonus depending on your lord's mark.

but that's a pipe dream, and I don't play chaos to begin with so whatever I guess

>>48604170
Can they, the psykers, cast a power multiple times?
No, (each of them can cast it once.)

I don't know why you're find this so hard.

>>48604230
quit his job*

>The Chaos Gods have many champions, each choosing favourites and rewarding them with dark blessings and gifts of great power. However, only one being bears the patronage of all four, for the Chaos Gods are bitter rivals.

>Archaon the Everchosen is a blood-drenched warrior, harvesting skulls for Khorne in numbers unsurpassed. Monsters, kings, entire armies and worlds have fallen beneath his sword. Archaon is also a corrupter beyond compare, the swathes of devastation he leaves behind are hotbeds for plagues and decay, the playthings of Nurgle. To Tzeentch, Archaon is the key to the most grandiose and twisting scheme that ever was – for he is the hand of destiny itself, the ultimate fate. And to Slaanesh, Archaon is a paragon, a conqueror that drives men and daemons alike to murderous excess.

-The Allgate

Read it and weep.

>>48603726
Praise our lord ward, may he return 40k to the right path.

>>48604184
>Nice meme.
It wasn't meme

>>48604096
I meant in terms of reading about fluff and rules.

>>48604113
I already have the rulebook too. I have read it for some time. The rules seem fine, the vagueness I see is reading the FAQ about how bases don't count. I'm all for casual games, but I at least want some rules.

>>48604184
The GW guy said he makes it his mission to stop people from being ultra competitive. Fine by me. I am getting tired of the Tourney Practice plays I get from Warmachine and X-Wing.

>>48604170
It also says they cannot cast the same power ONCE FOR EACH independent character. That means you can use the power LESS than once for each independent character.

It is possible to interpret the wording differently if you choose to be dense, but occam's razor indicates that they meant you may only use the power once regardless of the number of independent characters in the unit.

>>48604109
>We can call them the Council and it wouldn't make a difference.

Just as long as we don't call them "Undivided", it seems.

>Check the beginning of his dataslate.

And when you scroll further in, you see how he's constantly doing their bidding and isn't even fully aware of the ties that bind him to the dark gods and their will. It's not like he's the only daemon to ever have a thought of his own.

>Then what's the point of making them?

Other than all the reasons already mentions? And rewarding faithful servants for their dedication and making future use of their talents, rather than letting them die of old age?

>The Daemon Prince himself.

How? Nothing stops a god from taking power away from a mortal. Nothing stops a god from taking power away from a greater daemon. How is a DP special?

>There are stories of daemons who rebelled against the Chaos Gods and became their own gods forging their own kingdoms in the Formless Wastes.

And how much of this is totally against the will of their patron and not just them letting their insolent babies run away from home? The fluff is quite clear that all daemons are bound to their gods and just as well as the gods can gift power to them, they can take it away.

>Be'lakor

Special snowflake waifus need not apply to this conversation. Not every Undivided lord is Abaddon.