Warhammer 40k General

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Are you ready for the Rhana Dhandra?

>>48572620
>yfw Rhana Dhandra is a lead in for Age of the Emperor

So my space marine opponent claims that his tactical squads get to use krak grenades in melee combat because the rules don't distinguish between throwing and melee. Thus he gets 10 S8 attacks before my carnifex gets to swing anything. This is clearly ridiculous but he won't budge on it. Do you guys have any advice to counter this faggotry?

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>>48572706
It's coming, my man. Eldrad's heading for the universal assfuck switch.

>>48572706
Would that be so bad?

Simplifying the rules would be great, releasing them for free would be even better.

>>48572857
If they bothered to do a proper release.

So, having the rules, forms for army building, scenarios, developed world and fluff, all prepared BEFORE the release. Or at least acknowledge the early release as incomplete.

And communicated with fans instead of brushing aside. Having a clear upcoming release schedule.

Basically all the things AoS didn't have at release and is struggling to make up for now.

Given that the massive fuckup of AoS release was under Kirby, and the fixing of that fuckup has been under Roundtree, it could happen.

>>48572775
Someone stop that elf.

>>48572620
>>48572775
Wait, what is this?

>>48573066
New Deathwatch codex, gonna have a thing about them and the Eldar facing off due to this fate business, the Eldar seem to be getting fed up and are trying to bring about the true end times.

>>48572594
>raven guard and white scars finally get some screen time
>only to be cannon fodder for the tau to roll over

fucking GW man

>>48573085
Interdasting.

>>48573085
I never thought it would be the Deathwatch that would stand against the bringers of the End Times, or that the Eldar are going to be the ones who make it happen.

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>>48572594

Are the uploads current for Black Library releases? Seems to have dried up after KA torrents went under.

>>48573092
This is what annoys me about the Tau, they never lose anything. It reminds me of the zeist campaign stuff. Space marines group up and beat an invasion back, only to be quickly disbanded, and then the Tau reveal that was all part of their plan all along to take another section of the universe.

>>48573092
Kauyon and Mont'ka are not canon, though. they weren't in any codex.

>>48572771
Yeah, don't play him.

>>48572857
If it was less "kill the old fluff almost entirely" and more "transition the current storyline into a post-apocalypse," that'd be nice.

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>>48573146

>post yfw the popularity of Tau gundams with weebs and waifu lovers mean we will see Tau characters (possibly Farsight) appear on Holy Terra and/or fighting near the Eye of Terror

>>48573211
>As the imperium loses Cadia, the tau sweep in and retake it from the forces of chaos
>They proceed to fortify it more effectively in a week than the imperium did over 10,000 years

>>48573146
Anon, they're not that good. They have a few losses on their record.

>>48573114
>>48573122
Well we don't have too much evidence yet, but the point of 'Cegorach will laugh last and forever' has me thinking that, plus the Deathwatch would only get involved if it was some heavy shit. With the stuff about the primarchs returning as well, it seems we're just heading straight into a new era of end times stuff.

>>48573199
It is less kill the old fluff now.
It's still a massive time jump, but that isn't actually as much of a problem as people think. Most of the mortal characters were already dead. Having breaks between the between the focal points of the story is something that can work, and has basically been the way 40k lore has worked anyways.

As they've been going back and fixing the problems with the release... I mean adding new content... they've built up more of that transition and fit more parts of the old storyline into the new setting.

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>>48573240

>Farsight is the key to all of this. If we get Farsight working - cause he's a more noble bright character than we've ever had in 40k before

>>48572771
ok, first off, krak grenades are S6, not 8.

Second off, point out that only a single grenade can be used in the assault phase. (main rulebook errata from the facebook posts)

but seriously, screw that guy.

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>>48573277
These threads are going to take a nosedive in quality more aren't they?

>>48573277
Also, the fact that the Rhana Dandra is literally the final battle against chaos in eldar mythology. If that doesn't scream "end times" I don't know what does.

>>48572857
>Simplifying the rules would be great

Fuck you, the rules dont need simplifyimg, they need tuning.

If anythong we need more rules, especially for ambiguous shit like multi-level terrain

>>48573327
Likely, we all know how the fantasy boys broke ass when their end times came, we can only hope that we don't get shafted that hard.

>>48573122
The Eldar have always sought Rhana Dandra, because they believe it's their only hope of being free of Chaos, even if it kills them. Of COURSE they're going to be the ones to kick off the Apocalypse.

>>48573330
The issue though, is why are the eldar attacking the Imperium if they want to bring on Rhana dandra, to finally end chaos? It'll be interesting if this ends up as a three way Imperium, Slaaneshi chaos(Which really needs some love), and Eldar. Hopefully we'll also get more lore on the civil war in Comorragh as well.

>>48573362
Should we start praying to the Emperor now or when the Deathwatch codex is officially released?
>>48573401
Chances that they're going to fail and make things worse?

>>48573401
>The Eldar have always sought Rhana Dandra
Eh? I don't remember seeing that. There's that Iyanden bint's silly plan to kill everyone to awaken Ynnead, but apart from that I thought Eldar were trying to hold chaos off as long as possible, and the rhana dandra was when they inevitably failed and got wiped out.

>>48572857
The rules are already very simple, it's just that their route to reaching that point of simplicity involves a complete trainwreck of writing.

>>48573401
>Rhana Dandra happens
>Ynnead comes alive
>Chaos gets dicked
Pretty good setup here

>>48573401
>>48573467
I though that Rhana Dandra was seen as inevitable, not something to be sought.
With there being a mention of trying to hold it off long enough for there to be enough Eldar souls to put into the Infinity Circuits to birth Ynnead successfully.

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Does anyone else not have much faith in GW's current crop of writers? Especially after the thundershit strikes of Age of Sigmar, the End Times, and (your mileage may vary) the new 40k campaign books?

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So let me throw this out here... If you guys think that the direction 40k is heading is an Eldar induced end times...

That means that Age of Sigmar was just a test for GW and now they're going to go and fuck up 40k the same way they did with Warhammer fantasy. For fucks sakes I dont want some bullshit "orruks" and not!eleves and not!empire and not!tau being spawned from some retards asshole. For fucks sakes.

>>48573594
>Especially after the thundershit strikes of Age of Sigmar, the End Times,
under kirby
New AoS books are much much better.
Not great, but up to the standards of the good periods of WHFB and 40k.

>the new 40k campaign books?
those were fine. Not great but fine, and a good way to add content to the setting and edition.

While I'd like some of the rules updated, I'd very much prefer a 7.5 update to full 8e rollout anytime in the next few years.

>>48573539
It's seen as inevitable, but I always thought it was still the eldar's lose condition, not their win condition.

1500 semi-competative Dark Angels Demi-Company

List building thread is dead as balls, posting here for help.

Company Master
-Artificer armour
-Power fist
-Plasma pistol
-The Eye of the Unseen
190

Command Squad
-Plasma gun
-Plasma gun
-Plasma gun
-Plasma gun
-Plasma gun
-Razorback
220

Tactial squad
-+5 marines
-Melta
-Combi-melta
-Grav-cannon
-Rhino
230

Tactial squad
-+5 marines
-Melta
-Combi-melta
-Grav-cannon
-Rhino
230

Tactial squad
-+5 marines
-Melta
-Combi-melta
-Grav-cannon
-Rhino
230

Assault squad
-Flamer
-Flamer
-Jump pack x5
95

Devastartor squad
-Missile launcher x4
130

Scouts
-Camo cloaks
-Snipers
70

Dreadnaught
-Assault cannon
-Drop pod
145

Company Master will be with command squad shootan the dudes.

>>48573690
Ynnead was hope against the inevitable lose.
The eldar race was doomed to die, but in death there might be victory though the god of death born from the eldar souls in the infinity circuit.

There was debate between those who wanted to hold off that end to allow more Eldar to live, and thus die and enter the circuits, and those who wanted to start it now feeling that there were enough souls now and craftworlds, and their circuits and souls, would be lost as more time passed.

With the common eldar being told none of this.

>>48573625
>So let me throw this out here... If you guys think that the direction 40k is heading is an Eldar induced end times...

I think you mean Aeldar.

>>48573330
The real herald of Age of Emperor:
>The Wolf Times

>>48573539
Some of them want to hold off and feed Ynnead more.

Some of them though very much figure that the Eldar have nothing to lose and everything to gain right now, because Chaos is waxing, not waning, as it consumes more of humanity.

>>48573803
There isn't a copyright issue for Eldar.
There wasn't one for elves either if they weren't idiots about it, but Kirby was a massive fuckhead who among other things was obsessed with trying to own copyrights on everything despite having little concept for how the fuck copyrights work.

>>48573865
>Leman Russ comes back to find all his brothers and rejoin the Emps
That might be cool.

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>>48573625
>Eldar-induced end times
>mfw Abaddon is such a complete failure he can't even cause the end times, the Eldar have to do it for him

>>48572706
It's too late, I couldn't care if it is. My only request is for plastic bolter bitches .

>>48573594
Nope, after they fucked my Black Templars Ive given in to 30k which has much better written stuff and its written 'in Universe' like the old codices so it adds a nice feeling of historical account to the whole thing.

Bligh and co are doing great.

>>48572594
So I just recently started 40k and I started with Tau (because shit I love mechs I'm sorry) and got told many times now that Tau are super cheesey and stuff.... and I don't really know why. I mean, don't get me wrong, I play for fun and not to win tournaments or something but I still want to know why tau are considered so cheesey and why they supposedly win all the tournaments and all that. You kinda have to know cheese to avoid it so I'm basically asking you what not to do to not piss off all my friends

>>48573539
>I though that Rhana Dandra was seen as inevitable, not something to be sought.

Illic Nighspear is trying to stop the Rhana Dandra from happening, you know.

>>48573897
Yeah, I'm kinda half joking with the Aeldar thing. I'm still concerned that the company will repeat the whole, "Let's destroy the setting and build a shittier version of it", fiasco.

>>48572594
>bombardment of fenris ends with DA saying "oh sorry lol"
>"it's kay dark angels bark bark :))"

>>48574137
a fair concern, but the ratio of good to bad decisions, and okay to 'wtf that is so fucking dumb', has improved a lot since the new guy came in.

Might still happen, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

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>>48573122
The deathwatch are pretty dumb when it comes to understanding eldar stuff.

>>48574105
There seem to be quite a few factions in eldar society in terms of finally beating chaos.
>Iyenna with ynnead gambit
>Illic against that
>Eldrad for ynnead (I think) but not as fanatically as Iyenna. Also the most likely eldar to engage with humanity to fight chaos.
>Don't know if they're still alive in 40k, but there were eldar in the Cabal running the Alpharius gambit
Any others?

>>48573916
Eldar aren't the ones doing the End Times, you idiot. It's Be'lakor and human's impending psychic evolution that are causing. Abaddon and the Eldar are supply reacting to it.

Why do people hate Abaddon so much that they don't even understand his lore?

>>48574137
I think they're just gonna develop a few threads here and there, like this Rhana Dhandra/Ynnead/Ahriman reaching the Black Library thing has been a possible scenario for a long time, same with Helbrecht/Yarrick chasing Ghazghkull, they will just move a few stories forward and open up new stories like they did with the 13th company returning on Fenris and the Nids on Baal campaign. In the end its not gonna change much but we will see a bunch of lore scenarios moving forward in these campaigns.

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>>48574187
I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing

>>48574226
because his lore is really really poorly presented.
Like the Black Crusades. The way they are written, if you don't look really into them, it comes of as him fucking up 12 times.
Then if you do read further, you find out that those 13 crusades don't have the same goal, and some do succeed. But most of them still don't seem to matter, and have no real connection to each other.

This could be fixed by having some works about long term plans, with multiple steps to be taken to accomplish his ultimate goal, how each one fit together, and with the 13th Black Crusade mentions referring back to the success of the previous 12. But that's not what they do.

>>48574187
I feel like they should know >>48574292
This. The Deathwatch Libararians should go "Yo, those jewels have Eldar souls in them". Maybe the Deathwatch is doing it as a middle finger and or a bargaining chip.

>>48574226
Be'lakor is a faggot and he's currently getting his ass handed to him by the legion of the damned who may or may not be led by the lost primarchs.

The real end times will be induced by the Tyranid fleet leviathan arriving at Terra and overloading the Astronomicon with their psychic field.

Trust me. My dad works for GW ;)

>>48574292
>>48574316
Yeah maybe, just feels like there's one poor guy in the deathwatch with a cool shield that just can't catch a break.

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>>48573462
>Not praying to the Emperor always

>>48574226
Fuck off carnac. None of the hints GW are putting out are indicating this is fai'lakor's doing, and nobody's interested in your "IT WAS ALL ME BARRY" headcanon.

Oh, and try to actually finish your sentences next time.

>>48574304
>Then if you do read further, you find out that those 13 crusades don't have the same goal, and some do succeed. But most of them still don't seem to matter, and have no real connection to each other.

Jesus christ, you seriously can't read! It says on every incarnation of Abbaddon's lore that each Crusade is him consolidating his forces for the final 13th Crusade which is headed to Terra after he breaks out of Cadia. They are literal snippets of lore all pointing in the same direction and the 13th Black Crusade even starts with something like the forces of the Black Legion outnumber anything Horus ever commanded, nowhere in any of his lore do they have anything overly complicated or hidden in cryptic message for you to be confused about Abbaddon's threat level to the Imperium and the Imperium may win pyrrhic victories but Abaddon has always retreated with his objective accomplished.

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>>48574345
>Be'lakor is a faggot and he's currently getting his ass handed to him by the legion of the damned who may or may not be led by the lost primarchs
Cool.
>e real end times will be induced by the Tyranid fleet leviathan arriving at Terra and overloading the Astronomicon with their psychic field.
>Trust me. My dad works for GW ;)
>mfw
There is one they fear. In their tongue he is Skree Skree Skree Skree, in our tongue his is Robin Cruddance, Nidborn.
>>48574351
That marine must have Whitestrake levels of elf based life form now.
>>48574361
I meant more so than usual, Anon.

>>48573497
Be honest. The stat system currently in use is a fucking mess. They could radically simplify it while preserving the same mechanical relationships.

Even if you don't want to simplify it, AoS is a much better way of presenting rules: core rules for core rules, and then all the special rules are explained on cards relevant to the creature they represent.

what was the emperors end-gane goal with the great crusade?

Endless human expansion?
Humans to be safe and happy?

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>>48574316

They apparently don't know, if the entry is written from the Deathwatch POV.

Also, pic related - what happens when you make regular Eldar mad over stolen soulstones. If Eldrad gets wind of this it will probably be a bad day for the Deathwatch (or not, since SM only lose to Tau kek).

>>48574366
Be'lakor is literally called HERALD OF THE END TIMES. Serving the same role he did in fantasy. Not to mention that he guided Abaddon and shaped his destiny until Abaddon became the guy who will usher the galaxy to its end.

He is the one who is going to anoint Abaddon as Chaos Ascendant. Stay jelly, anon.

>i'll never have a way of finding out if Carnac is in the threads without reading every post and finding his autism

It sucks.

>>48573462
If the rumour mill is correct. Rowntree has learnt from the trainwreck that was AoS after Kirby royally fucked it up and is going to learn from it. I'm pretty sure that was the whole point of AoS. To see how to work it with 40k.

The claim is, 8th edition will be streamlined, but it won't be AoS tier streamlined. The "Age of the Emperor" isn't happening, but the 'End Times' (Times of Ending) will happen. Except this time, the Primarch's will return and the Daemon Primarch's will get models. This is happening basically to make the FW models 40k useable.

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Unbound Wraith Eldar

Spiritseer-70

10x wrathblades-320
5x wraithguard-160

10xSwooping Hawks, exarch, Hawk's Talon

Wraithlord w/ ghostglaive-125
wraithlord w/ ghostglaive, brighlance-145

1000

I see nothing wrong with this list

>>48574381
> every incarnation of Abbaddon's lore that each Crusade is him consolidating his forces for the final 13th Crusade
that doesn't even fit what I have read.
Because only a few those Crusades are about him GAINING forces, with most being about attacking things.

>outnumbering
does not tie into the other black crusades for shit, because the one thing those did not do was increase the number of chaos space marines.

>confused about Abbadon's threat level
we're constantly TOLD he's a threat, but it feels unjustified because we aren't shown how his actions constitute the amount of threat we are told, because he keeps retreating back into the Eye of Terror.

> every incarnation of Abbaddon's lore that each Crusade is him consolidating his forces for the final 13th Crusade
and they do a shit job of establishing what those objective are and how they all tie together.

Literally the only shit that people bring up that fit together, and these are rarely mentioned outside of the lore for there individual Crusade, is the Blackrock Fortresses and Abaddon's weapon.
That's 2 of twelve. What are the other ten things he's done, and why do they tie together. And why is GW shit about presenting those tying together.

I'm still stuck trying to decide on an army. I'm torn between Deldar and GK and possibly Necrons, though I think my friend wants to start them. He mainly plays Eldar with some Orks and a few demons.

I've kinda settled on DE or GK through process of elimination. IG are too expensive in terms of $/point, SM are bland, Tau are overplayed cheese, friend plays Eldar, he's looking into Necrons, I know too many Ork players, I know a wolf player who's coming back, and that pretty much leaves Deldar, Grey Knights, Dark and Blood Angels.

Deldar I think interest me the most because they're pretty cool with some neat fliers, which I like. Sadly, I heard they're not that great anymore.

Grey Knights are cool, and I actually have a few old metal PA halberds floating around, though idk is that's what's used. My research says spam as many baby harnesses as you can, dotted with a few terminators or play another army. Don't know how true that is, but that's sad.

Dark Angels I think I'd want to go Greenwing, so I don't know if there's a point, but I don't think I want to play French vanilla Marines with red or green food coloring.

Why am I being so autistic about choosing an army. Fuck.

>>48574468
Belako'r is getting retconned though.

>>48574448
Basically the same end game as Leto II.

Humanity expansionism with very little to threaten it.

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>>48572594
>not even using the good General Images.

>>48574403
>Robin Cruddance

Dont remind me please I dont want to sob uncontrollably today

>>48574495
Not him. But I agree with the anon before. You cannot read. Please cite the sources that you have read about Abaddon so we can gauge your ability to read.

>>48574448
The bottom and to guide humanity through its psychic evolution.
>>48574450
I doubt Eldrad doesn't know. It seems pretty impossible to keep Eldrad in the dark while living in the same Craftworld as him.

>>48574448
Humanity to be united in the galaxy. His plan on Terra was fixing the Eldar Webway and basically making the need for Warp Travel null and void. Which would mean he could have cleansed the Warp without breaking the links between planets. The guy delayed returning to fellate Horus on Ullanor.

In the end, it fucked up, because

>MAGNUS DID NOTHING WRONG :((

Then humanity would have evolved into the psychic might with control and the universe would be ours.

>>48574484
>I'm pretty sure that was the whole point of AoS. To see how to work it with 40k.

well right now he's putting a lot of work into fixing the fuckups with the AoS release. (it's a MUCH better game and setting now, and there is still a lot of work that can and seems to be being done).
If it was meant as a test, they shouldn't have fucked it up on such a fundemental level. But I rarely saw a Kirby decision that didn't strike me as retarded, and the worst mistakes with the AoS release came down to failures to communicate with fans, and Kirby was universally awful at that and Rowntree has clearly been trying to be better at that.

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Even if the lore is fucked when have we ever listened to GW when they make lore changes?

>>48574501
Nope, the setting literally cannot work without Be'lakor. He fills so many plotholes such as how Abaddon became what he is and how he got there. No mortal could have accomplished what Abaddon did without infernal help from an insider.

>>48574535
Sorry, Anon, but the Nidborn comes for your soul.

>>48574567
That's okay, Abaddon is going to be killed by the Lion anyway.

>>48574583
Thats a funny way to spell Robute

>>48574583
Not according the time travelling Daemon prince. The Imperium will fall.

>>48574495
You need to read Black Legion codex. It explains what the point of the 12 BC's were for. They're pretty nebulous and shit, but they're still there.

>>48574604
ONLY TO BE REBORN A REPUBLIC

UNDER ONE HOLY BLUE BANNER

AVE MARIA
AVE MCRAGGE
AVE ULTRAMAR

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You know what I am gonna be pissed about if they do some 40k end times shit


They remove all the other IG regiments and just give us nu-cadians only

>>48574567
Setting seemed fine before he got here to me.
>>48574600
>>48574604
Rowboat and One Punch Lion Man vs Lord Topknot Ezekyle Abigail

>>48574559
Yeah. That's the point. Kirby was a retard. Rowntree is trying to fix so much shit.

Rowntree isn't perfect. He isn't even good. He's just what I expect of a CEO of a top company (relatively). Some good, some bad.

Had AoS started with the point system, it would have been much better relieved.

>>48574604
The first imperium will, yeah. Imperium secundus 2: more doubler than the last time will stand. Reminder that Lion outplayed fateweaver while the bird was reading his mind, he is anti chaos in perfect form.

>>48574627
End Times =! Age of Sigmar.

>>48574627
That picture. No Praetorian xxivth?
:(

>>48574640
Whoops meant to link to >>48574600

>>48574450
>You fucked up so bad the Pheonix Lords came to kick your ass

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>>48574688
>>48574627

I mean I bet GW has forgotten a good chunk of the regiments listed in this pic already

>>48574537
from the lexicanum

>first black crusade
Goal: Get the sword
source: Codex:CSM
>Second black crusade
Goal: Destroy Cadian fortress
failure.
Some mention of freeing a few unnamed demons (Could count as gathering forces, but you need to establish some fucking lore for those guys for anyone to give a damn)
Source: Black Legion Supplement

>3rd
Goal: Desicrate a Shrine World
No gathering forces. Also, why the fuck does this matter, NEED TO ESTABLISH THIS SHIT
Black Legion
>4th
Goal Destroy the fortress of Kromach
AGAIN not gathering forces.
Again, why matter?
Black legion and CSM codex

>5th
Goal: Destroying an imperial world and killing a lot of space marines
No gathering forces.
They called a demon lord into the materium to kill a lot of people, but that's not gathering forces because the demon was already in the warp and got sent back there after the crusade.
Black Legion

>>48574716
You'd not like to have been around WHFB in 2nd edition. They slowly cut down the amount of ranges.

New Iron Hands player here.
Is that anything that wrong with Razorbacks? Everyone wants to suggest Drop Pods which I don't like and Rhinos which are pretty boring.

I have the Start Collecting Space Marine Box, Codex and Rulebook. Going to grab my two Razorbacks and probably a tech marine this weekend to have a playable army.

Do I need more marines for support?

My idea was to have my two tactical squads branch out and have my back line full of Predators, Vindicators, Whirlwinds and Thunderfire Cannons .

Also is the dreadnaught worth bringing as a mobile-weapons platform since I don't plan on getting a drop pod to use it the "usual" way people suggest.

>>48574716
I want to know more about the Fire Drakes and see more of he Teutons.

>>48574716
Paladius Guard looks really cool.

>>48574811
Fire Drakes are dwarves tho

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>>48574729
From the Lex? No wonder you are a failure. Read the actual codexes, rulebooks, and supplemnts. The lex at best gives small portion of lore and doesn't give you the full detail.

For example, the First Crusade wasn't just about the Sword. It was breaking out the Legions from their self defeating ways and reminding them of their hatred of the Imperium. It was about jump starting the Long War.

Now get to reading instead of being a idiot.

>>48574615
the problem is they are nebulous, but more importantly don't tie together.

Most of them are 'he came out and fucked some shit up then went home'. There is no sense that they are building to something.

Why is the 13th going to end in the destruction of the Empire of Mankind, rather than Abbadon fucking some shit up again? This requires set up.

>>48574729
>6th
Goal: conspires to kill off a rival.
That is most certainly not gathering forces

>7th
Goal: Fuck some shit up apparently, they spread out and attacked a bunch of targets with no clear goal. Some Blood Angels got particularly fucked up.
Still no gathering forces

>8th
Goal: Appease Tzeetch through gathering skulls (WTF?).
Gathering forces. Could have been made way the fuck better by having 4 crusades in a row each being about appeasing one of the Chaos Gods, but NOPE.

>9th
Goal: Deplete and destroy an Imperial Navy Fortress
Still not gathering forces

I'm stopping now because I've got enough to make my damn point.

>>48573594

Stay mad you salty bitch, AOS is great.

Keep pining over your eternal old world stale mate and your fantasy general pretending the end times never happened.

>>48574836
They don't give me Dorf vibes.

>>48574858
then show me the page where each of the crusades that I mentioned were about gathering forces and not about destroying something.

>>48574873
Shut up.
You don't get to talk about anything unless you read the actual source material.

>>48573625
they are not actually retarded enough to seriously do a 40k end time and scrap the universe are they?

I mean moving it to 42k and keeping the same setting, maybe shaking up some things I could kinda get (although I'd be really fucking pissed off if they splinter the IoM into smaller nations), but they do recognize how retarded it would be to do a AoS right?

>>48574500
Dark Eldar are fun, plus they're battle brothers with Harlequins and Eldar which means you can do an interesting freakshow list, fighting leadership instead of toughness and armor saves

thedarkcity.net/t12080-freakshow-tactica-part-1

Do you have to have the books, either in digital or print form to use the rules in a tournament? I ask, because some of these rules I'm interested in using have been printed in limited release only, and are really fucking expensive to buy.

>>48574904
How about you download the supplement from OP and get to reading.

Do you want me to spoonfeed you everything.

>>48574764
Dreads a pretty good, usually with a heavy weapon + CCW. You will need marines to go in those razor backs. If you want a cheapish way to get a bunch of marines, some termies, a chaplain, and a contemptor dread buy betrayal at calth. Vindicated are more medium range, whirlwind are a disappointment , and predators are too fragile

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>>48574877
>AOS is great

enjoy your sigmarines

>>48574904
Well I know one of the crusades was about grabbing a Blackstone fortress or two...and that's it. We guardsmen have short lives and would rather talk about Iho sticks than previous crusades.

That said, 13 crusades in 10,000 years? Goddamn Abaddon hire a new logistician!

>>48574949
You don't even need to read the supplement. The CSM codex will suffice with just this quote.

>Abaddon has fought to rebuild the pride and reputation of the Black Legion, always leading his forces into the most dangerous conflicts personally. At first Abaddon won the grudging respect of the other Traitor Legions, but as his deeds have grown mightier he has succeeded in winning their support too. His impassioned words have rekindled the Traitor Legions' smouldering hatred of the Imperium and warriors of all the Legions have fought beneath his banner.

>Abaddon built his reputation with a series of acts of almost suicidal bravery, personally leading attacks into the most heavily defended positions and miraculously prevailing. Gradually it became accepted that the Gods of Chaos themselves had shaped his destiny and that Abaddon was the one who would lead the traitor legions to redemption through victory.

>With every assault Abaddon leads, the strength of his Black Legion grows. In the minds of the Chaos Space Marines, success is a sign of the Chaos Gods' favour, and Abaddon is now seen by many as the natural successor to Horus. Only the Daemon Primarchs wield as much power as the Warmaster of the Black Legion.

-CSM codex

>>48574992
>That said, 13 crusades in 10,000 years? Goddamn Abaddon hire a new logistician!

You do Abaddon leads wars and campaigns other than the Black Crusades or he simply sponsors the wars of over warlords.

Pandorax for examples.

>>48574873
You do realize that through all those efforts Abaddon built up a reputation and gathered forces through that reputation? Read between the lines motherfucker.

>>48574919
>>48574949
I have read the actual source, I just don't feel like combing through all those pages again, but I'll do it again to make you happy.

Here's the thing.

First, most of the black crusades were NOT about gathering forces. They were about destroying thing.
This is the case.

Second. The setting is so big that destroying things that were not mentioned anywhere else does not feel significant.

Third: Almost all of this is just within the Black Legion Book.
For something that's supposed to matter to the whole setting and not just that one faction, you need to include stuff to build it up outside of that one book.
This could include very simple language about how the Black Crusades were building up on each other. That language is not there.

>>48574962
I have the start collecting box so I have two units of 5 tacticals that will go in the Rhinos. Thanks though.

Do you still think Predators are fragile for Iron Hands? All vehicles and characters have It Will Not Die.

I would probably like at least like one Vindicator and one Predator.

Back to the drawing board I guess.

>>48575046
No. It's objectively proven by now that you didn't read the CSM codex or the supplement.

Just stop. Despite me posting a page about the First Crusade, you continued on with your lies about it.

>>48574992
Do remember that abaddon has to fight 100 ultramarines every time he starts a new crusade.

Without 800 years of prep, he'd be dead in the water.

>>48575042
that's shitty presentation motherfucker.

Because we have to read between the lines to not see him as fucking around 12 times, and have to trust them just saying that the 13th time will totally be different rather than having that built up and shown to us.

>>48575021
>I killed this one thing and people think I'm awesome
>I had to do that like 11 more times then I'm finally seen as awesome enough to actually accomplish the shit I wanted to do
Do you see how fucking lame that can read?

I'm not saying that the Black Crusades couldn't be cool, they don't even have to change what was done in those Crusades to make Abbadon look better. But they do need to change how they are fucking presented.

>>48575082
Also nearly all the fluff in the Black Legion supplement (which is everything outside a Crimson Path entry and some entries in the timeline) were mentioned in previous sources.

The Black Legion supplement for the most part collected the Black Legion lore in one book. So if you think that this is all new and it's all in one book, then you have failed as reader.

>>48575106
Right, everything has to be spoonfed like a baby and have exposition out the fucking ass.

Read more books.

>>48575106
>Do you see how fucking lame that can read?

Like I said, shut up. You are not reading the lore and so your opinion has ZERO value. I mean how dare you think your opinion matters when your exposure to them is simply the lex wiki artciles?

>>48574991

Sigmarines are a great faction and we're all enjoying it.

Stay mad and salty old world bitch :^)

>>48574484
Did you read the letter to the shareholders that accompanied this years report? Doesnt sound like anyone there has learned much.

>>48575082
>7th edition Black Legion
>Pg 26
>2nd black Crusade
Fucks some shit up. Sets up ritual that latter unleashes plague (Not during 13th crusade so can't be counted as building up forces for that crusade).
No mention of gaining forces.
Point for me
>3rd
okay, they do mention the saint was supposed to rise again, point for you
>4th
Destroy shit, no gathering forces
point for me
pg 27 now
>5th
Doombreed, exactly what I said before
point for me
>6th
Kills a rival
Not gathering forces, but could be considered consolidating power. So I'll call it a draw
>7th
Fuck shit up
Gathers some geneseed, so I'll give half a point for you
pg 28.
>8th
exactly like I said.
Pleasing Tzeetch could count to gathering forces, but there isn't any overall trend built up from this so no.
Point for me
>9th
destroy shit. No gathering forces
Point for me.

So I was wrong on one, half wrong on another one to two, and completely right on the rest.

He was breaking shit and it wasn't build up why those things worked together.
And this is the book just about that fucking legion.

>>48575314
Stop citing the Lexi articles and start reading the Black Legion supplement already.

>>48575038
In the eye, time doesnt pass in the same way it does in the rest of the galaxy.

For example, in the Night Lords Omnibus, one passage states that (sic) for them, it has only been 100 years since the siege of Terra. For the Imperium, it's been 10,000 years.

For all we know, occasionally time moves backwards, or stands completely still in the eye.

>>48575154
>>48575146
So try to remember what I've been saying about PRESENTATION.

It's not that what he did wasn't good, it's that unless you read into the details of the backstory, it doesn't come off that way.

Presentation. How it looks, how it reads. If the stuff people bother taking from it to put on the wiki looks that way, the presentation fucked up.
If when reading the corebook without looking at a specific supplement it looks a certain way, the presentation fucked up.

Abbadon has a cool story, that they have fucked up presenting to fans outside of people already interested in reading more about Abbadon.

>>48575349
Also I would like to point out definitive proof that he isn't reading the supplement

>Kills a rival
>Not gathering forces, but could be considered consolidating power. So I'll call it a draw

In that event he kills his Sons of Horus rival and takes over his large warband. The sentences are next to each other.

The man is a lying bastard. Don't trust a word he says.

>>48575349
that was from the supplement. The times I said I was wrong was where the supplement had more than the Lexi article. The other black crusades did not include any info about gathering forces in the 7th ed supplement.

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Eldar getting more shit
Still no new orks

>>48575081
If you aren't playing competitively Predators are fine. I've run up to three and they do fine. You're mostly going to get advice that steers you into min-max or tourney type shit. If you're new, just pick what you like, make a small army, and play a few games. Then you can get a feel for your guys and take it from there.

>>48575388
Post disregarded. You don't get to talk about representation when you are not reading the text that's being represented. Just Staaahp!

Also see >>48575122
You have failed.

>>48575410
You

see

>>48575393
Quit lying. You got caught.

>>48575393
>he kills his Sons of Horus rival
the rival mentioned in that post
>he kills his Sons of Horus rival
the consolidating power mentioned in that post

>>48575046
So basically, you've decided upon this fantasy you prefer instead of reality. You will misinterpret or distort any evidence that you dont like.

Dont feel bad man, tons of people live this way. It is a sign of a weak mind though. You just cant be objective.

>>48575420
Just wait until we get Orruks :)

>>48575430
>>48575456
no, I didn't.

Do you want me to post the pic of each page to show you.
If it's so fucking easy for me read the same section you are, and come away with a different interpretation, there is a problem with the presentation.

The person who wrote the Lexi page ALSO read that same page, and came away with a different interpretation of what was important. So I'm not the only person reading it that way.

Anyone have the rest of the so far released Beast series? Only the first two novels were int he mega link I looked through.

>>48575460
Acquiring a large warband of Sons of Horus into his army, doesn't count as gathering forces?

Nobody is buying that. You simply did not read the text and thought he just killed a rival champ.

>>48575498
>there are other retards besides myself with an irrational hate for a fictional character

Bro. Please.

>>48575504
Look up Epistolary's profile on kickass, he's got ever 40K book, beast included.

>>48575517
Kickass got deleted. Epistolary was deleted months before because some guys in Dakka and /tg/ complained about him getting all the credit for people's uploads.

>>48575472
no, I've presented repeated evidence that the black crusades were not all about gathering forces.

Or present me with a single quote about the 4th, 5th, 8th or 9th crusade being about gathering forces.

Or present to me other times all this is mentioned outside of the Chaos books, or for several ouside of the Black Legion books.

Most of the Crusades were about him fucking shit up, and the problem with the setting is that you can't fuck shit up which hasn't been established for a long period of time, and have it feel like it matters, because the settting is too big.

>people getting this mad over interpretations of a fictional characters motives
Must be /40kg/

A question for everyone: What are you working on? Show me your army

>>48575550
You

see

>>48575456

>>48575498
The fluff of that thing is simple. He killed a guy and took his stuff. There is no over interpretation except if you are being a retard or a weasel.

Just give up.

The people on here with a lick of sense know you are full of shit. It's time for me to head to bed.

>>48575511
no, because it was Sons of Horus, so it was consolidating forces which were being drawn away.
Which is why I didn't count it as a point for me.

And no ones pointed me out as being wrong about several other crusades having nothing to do with gathering forces. So my initial point still fucking stands.

>>48575516
or maybe we like the character, but think he hasn't been presented well.
Which is what I've been saying this whole fucking time.

>>48575542
Oh shit, I had no idea. That's a real shame then, I was planning on getting the rest of the beast series from him....

>>48575517
>>48575542
Yeah pretty much. If kickass still existed this would be easy but I can't find anything now, and all the kickass mirrors are pop up hell for me.

>>48575594
see >>48575460
>>48575595

Still looking for how the 4th, 5th, 8th and 9th gathered forces.
Not just bringing up the one I mentioned I didn't have a point on.

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>>48575583
I have to start and Eldar army now, just so I can field this.

>>48575542

fucking manbabies.

so where is the go to place for 40k downloads now?

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>>48575599
>>48575604
I'll upload the novels under one condition.

You accept the Based'kor as your lord and master, Dark Master!

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What would a good and fluffy list for CSM look like?

>>48575583
It's just carnac. Mental how just about every thread on /tg/ has one named autist that shits it up.

If Andy from Toy Story was into 40k what army would he play?

Hey, so is it a good time to start playing 40K? Orks look fun and eldar are neat.

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>>48575635

mass cultists and daemons

the only chaos marine in your fluffy CSM army should be a sorcerer

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This thread is going nowhere so let me attempt to change the subject. Tell me about your last game, or present a cool theme for an IG regiment. Also what Chaos God would the Creeper serve?

>>48575671
Chaos because he was edgy

>>48575631
I love you Bel'Akor, true lord of the end times!

>>48575689
>Andy
>Edgy
You must be confusing him for Sid.

>>48575550
>Most of the Crusades were about him fucking shit up, and the problem with the setting is that you can't fuck shit up which hasn't been established for a long period of time, and have it feel like it matters, because the settting is too big

Sounds an awful lot like an opinion to me. Placing your own personal standards on someone elses work, and when their work doesnt meet your standard you convince yourself that your interpretation of said lore is the reality.

Your problem is a common one. You believe you are much smarter than you actually are. Good old Dunning-Kruger effect: the farther your head is up your own ass, the less likely you are to realize your head is up your ass.

So what are some overused/overdone symbols in Space Marine logos? In both canon Chapters and fan-made. Trying to make a new logo, don't want to go for something overdone.

>>48575711
Woops. In that case ultramarines.

>>48574936

Idk about allying eldar because my friend plays them, and 90% of allying I see, you might as well not even bother with the main list because it's mostly allies.

>>48575635
a completely unfluffy minmax CSM list still isn't

>good

so basically just do what you want. of course some things are still technically better than others, you're obviously better off running a death guard list with nurgle stuff than a full blown thousand sons list with multiple units of rubrics. the best fluffy list, i.e. one that faithfully represents an existing faction is uh . . . hmmmm. I dunno, maybe an EC list with MSU blastmaster noise marines and forgeworld stuff that noise marines would still reasonably have like rapier batteries

>>48575725

roman imagery

>>48575725
Skulls, eagles, crosses.

>>48575681
Fuck no. Its literally in the worst state its ever been in.

>>48575701
1 novel will be uploaded in a 40K general. You will never know when but it will be today. Stay tuned.

>>48575750
Eh, skulls are such a symbol of the Imperium, kinda hard to get away from them. So's the Aquila.

>>48575765
No one gives a fuck.

>>48575490
Thinking about it get me REALLY FIRED UP!

>>48575723
go pack to the shit that started this

>>48574226
>Why do people hate Abaddon so much that they don't even understand his lore?
The relevant bit
>why do people hate Abaddon so much
and the other bit
>don't understand his lore

I argued
>the presentation sucks.

When the core rulebook doesn't make it seem like the first 12 Crusade do anything.
Then you read the Codex:CSM which can easily be read as him needing to go out and impress the other legions 12 fucking times before they're willing to follow him
Then they could go to the Lexi wiki and have it still not sound like those 12 crusades accomplished anything.

Is this a problem with presentation?

If I need to go and read the specific Black Legion supplement to make those Crusades sound kinda badass, isn't the character being fucked over a bit by his presentation?

The bit about many of the Crusades being about fucking shit up rather than gathering forces was me getting distracted by an anon being wrong (many of the Crusades were about fucking shit up rather than gathering forces, or show me how the 4th wasn't).

The last bit about destruction of shit not mattering unless presented as tying into shit is a bit of my own opinion, but goes back to the first point. Presentation.
His accomplishments are not presented as well as they could be.
I don't hate the character, I wish they put more effort into consistently presenting him as being as intimating as he's supposed to be, and tied his actions together into more cohesive narrative.

>>48575681
the cynical answer is that starting 40k right now is like starting WoW in 2016, you missed the golden age by like a fucking decade son, shit has been run 10 miles into the ground by both the company running it by adding cancerous shit to make money, and the community becoming a normie-fied fucktard fest

the optimist answer is it's still very possible to start 40k now and have fun but it largely depends on your local community, if you don't have a good FLGS with players who are decent human beings, then don't bother. but if you do, it can be great hobby, I would wait a bit though because right now it looks like the game might be on the cusp of a major change, such as a new edition that might further drive the game into a different paradigm

>>48574491
looks good

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How good are mono Nurgle on the tabletop?

What would my army look like at around 1000-1500 pts?

>>48575725
I've seen some chapter have the same symbol before. One chapter called the Shadow Wolves have the same Wolf symbol as the Space Wolves.

>>48575853
>What would my army look like at around 1000-1500 pts?

Well, depending on your painting skills, somewhere between "ok" and "Fucking Awesome".

>>48575840
>>48575756
Damn, well hopefully she bounces back.

>>48575853
Mono nurgle as in Daemons, CSM, or a sort of "Nurgle Daemonkin" mix?

>>48575965
daemons

What should I do next?

>start collecting Militarum Tempestus to go with a converted inquisitor I did as a hobby project
>some nobz and flash gitz as pure hobby - they will never see the tabletop
>buy an AoS starter kit and undergo a vast but exciting hobby project to make tzeentch bloodbound
>work on filling out my current army, undivided Chaos Space Marines

>>48575853
Differs a fair bit from 1000 to 1500.

Played against Mono-nurgle daemons and mixed daemons/CSM at 750 and 1000, and their nasty.
Nurglings are tough things to get off objectives, and a daemon prince can mess a lot of shit up.

At 750 to 1000 points your opponent might not have the things in their army to counter a FMC or awesome cover saves. And might struggle to get the weight of fire to take down your melee options before they start closing.

Having faced a pretty different mono-nurgle list at 1500, it's not nearly as scary.
Lists have room to include counters to counters to shrouded FMC (still tough, but if they focus on it, it will die and that hurts your early offense and capacity to fuck the backline), shooty armies will have firepower to clear you off of where they need to clear you off, and are more likely to have options for dealing with cover saves.

Still fun armies to play against, and every nurgle player I've played with has been a complete bro, so go for it.

>>48575837
>His accomplishments are not presented as well as they could be

And to you, somehow this translates into the Black Crusades being unsuccessful. Before you started moving the goalposts. "Failure--->oh the presentation is just bad"

Bro, when you can stop being an argumentative, know-it-all pissant, your life will improve. It's ok to come to the realization that you can be incorrect or wrong. Fighting tooth and nail, changing your story, etc. - all just indicates insecurity, weakness, and questionable intellect.

Drop it, and give yourself some self-reflection time. Ask yourself why you have an unquenchable need to always be right. Why you have to attempt to force people to come around to your point of view. Why you cant question your own opinion/perspective. Because those are all qualities of an idiot. And idiots have a harder time in life than non-idiots.

The first step is talking less, and listening more. Good luck to you.

>>48575785
Okay then no upload!

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>>48575837
>The bit about many of the Crusades being about fucking shit up rather than gathering forces was me getting distracted by an anon being wrong (many of the Crusades were about fucking shit up rather than gathering forces, or show me how the 4th wasn't).

The CSM and Chaos guys flock to people who wreck shit and stack victories. So gathering forces goes without saying because that's the nature of Chaos. Sheesh.

>When the core rulebook doesn't make it seem like the first 12 Crusade do anything.

Uh huh.

>>48576027
>And to you, somehow this translates into the Black Crusades being unsuccessful.
not what I said.
What I said from the start
>If you don't look into them, it comes off as him fucking up 12 times.

Then I said if you do look into them, you find out they do succeed, they just don't feel like they matter.

This isn't moving my goalpost. I never said he was a failure.
When I was wrong, I admitted it.
People are pissed off that I don't consider consolidating the Sons of Horus under him as gaining new power, even though I did admit it was him further consolidating his power.

But now you're reading into my statements things I never said. I never said he was a failure, I never said I hated the character.

I did get distracted into an argument over whether some of the Crusaders were about destroying things rather than gathering forces. Still waiting for someone to prove me wrong there. But that was a distraction, and I shouldn't have gone on that tangent.

The point was about the presentation, it's what I started with, and it's where I'm ending now.

>>48576150
>The CSM and Chaos guys flock to people who wreck shit and stack victories.
back to "I needed to do that 12 fucking times".
And again, the goal was to destroy something.
If he had to destroy it just to impress some people, and had to do that 12 times, that doesn't read as very cool.

Are you honestly saying that spending a couple of paragraphs in the Black Legion books and another couple of sentences in that section of the core rulebook to establish how all those destructions were leading to the final crusade whouldn't have improved the presentation.

As it is, you have him achieving what you're told is 'a great victory', then going away. That leads some people to ask "why did he back off?".
It's pretty easy to read 'vanishing' as 'ran the fuck away'.

Back 5th, I used to run daemons, and by that I mean I used to run pink horrors. Lots and lots of horrors. I'd run them in 5 man squads with chaos bolt and just feel strike them into asinine positions.

I want to do that again, or at least something similar, but I have no idea of that's even possible or viable. Two editions and a new Codex have happened since then.

How is mono Tzeentch daemons?

>>48576233
>back to "I needed to do that 12 fucking times".

No, he didn't need to do it 12 times. Each Crusade had an objective that Abaddon achieved in order to build up the 13th Black Crusade. The flocking to his banner thing was secondary to the main objectives of the Crusade which were removing obstacles, gathering resources, gaining favour from the gods, etc.

>Are you honestly saying that spending a couple of paragraphs in the Black Legion books and another couple of sentences in that section of the core rulebook to establish how all those destructions were leading to the final crusade whouldn't have improved the presentation.

The CSM codex says that the past crusades were set up for the 13th.

>As it is, you have him achieving what you're told is 'a great victory', then going away. That leads some people to ask "why did he back off?".

Only dumb people who don't understand logistics will ask that. Abaddon compared to the Imperium has limited forces at his command. Retreating to the Eye means he can consolidate his strength and gains in peace. Having a foothold outside the Eye will be draining because the Imperium will not stop pouring their limitless resources until its gone.

The issue is with you.

>>48576326
mono tzeentch is pretty strong, more so with the incursion/campaign book. amazing warlord traits and the ability to msu screamers makes them very good for tournaments.

i wouldn't suggest deepstriking them in to doombolt things now. pinkies are better for warp charge batteries, summoning, and maybe doing some witchfires

>>48576326
Warpflame Host is incredible. Burning skyhost is also incredible. Heralds are incredible. Relics are incredible. They have their own warlord traits now and they're incredible. Lords of Change, Fateweaver, Daemon Princes? Incredible.

Deep strike a bunch of exalted flamers if you'd care to recreate that strategy now.

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So I'm trying to get into 40k, decided to play some motherfucking chaos, but I want to build a 500 point army and I don't really know where to begin.

What are some generally effective or just cool armies for 500 points?

>>48576442
>>48576468

So, what should I take and what should I avoid? There's a ton of gifts and shit now.

>>48576374
Half the crusades were now mentioned to be attempts to force the various Daemon primarchs to bow to him, weren't they? At least, I remember a segment in some book about a big quest Abaddon went on, getting the favor of Lorgar, who offered it happily, and shattering Magnus, as he forced him to bow before himself.

>>48576000
Mono-nurgle is also in a very good spot because of the tallyband and rotswarm formations. Additionally, the forgehost formation with nurgle grinders + epidemius can let you turn any nurgle army into a surprisingly versatile and shooty daemon army. GUOs/Nurgle princes are also likewise as good as they've ever been.

>>48576096
Good, don't upload that trash. Elves are gay and queer and homo.

>>48576538
What does Elves have to do with a novel series about Ork invasions?

>>48576000
Mono nurgle daemons are very slow, aside from winged daemon princes and using deep strike. You gotta use reserves and the icon + instrument trick to chain drop some reserves without scatter after the first one drops or off another icon on the table.

What's great is plague bearers can kill pretty much anything in the game in melee. Might take a while, but they can hurt tanks and anything else. Adding heralds with foci for FNP is a good idea.

A great unclean one is nearly impossible to kill, especially if you roll for 3 powers in biomancy. My standard 2k list includes 2 heralds, 3 daemon princes, a GUO and then 60 plague bearers.

You have to be tactical with where you put and move your guys, but it's a fun, if slow army.

>>48576516
Before the 1st Black Crusade, Abaddon forced all of them to bow to him. Magnus, Mort, and Angron refused so he had to break their knees.

Afterwards, he tried to lure them in with honey instead of a beat stick. It worked for all except Magnus who refused to see Abaddon. Abaddon settled with allying with Ahriman instead for the Thousand Sons support.

>>48576574
Nothing, I just wanted to state that fact in the 40k general thread here on 4chan dot com

>>48576374

>Each Crusade had an objective that Abaddon achieved in order to build up the 13th Black Crusade.
really, please show me where it says this.
No really, I've been fucking desperate for GW to actually fucking write that instead of us having to read between the lines.

>Each Crusade had an objective that Abaddon achieved in order to build up the 13th Black Crusade.
again, please show me the line or lines where they talk about the logistics.
Because yes, it would make perfect sense. If GW bothered to fucking write it.

>the issue is with you
if the issue was only me, then why did the anon who started this whole discussion ask a question as if it was common problem for people to misread it this way.

>>48576509
tzeentch heralds are for shooting, summoning, supporting but never for fighting. if they're in a fight you messed up. the burning chariot while fragile (10/10/10 3hp, 5++ jinking rerolls 1s to save) comes with a free herald and is decent for 100 points. a soul grinder is always good. oh and a lord of change/fate weaver

that being said i like slaanesh the most. even finished my chariots and i'm tempted to either run the formation or go unbound next time for full on chariots.

>>48576574
the elves caused by putting in a chain of reactions starting with someone sneezing

>>48576644
get out of here GW

>>48576509
Paradox and impossible robe are both highly competitive options as far as the relics go.

The good news with daemons is you really can't go wrong with any of your unit choices. Especially as far as tzeentch goes, just about every unit minus the changeling is very capable in a number of ways. Lords of change and daemon princes can do as they please when rolling multiple greater rewards or with grimoire/warp surge/psychic powers etc. Burning chariots/flamers/exalted flamers are also all very powerful shooting choices in a codex that more or less crutches on the psychic phase to function at range.

You people arguing about lore are all faggots because only faggots read that shit. Talk about the game and the models some more, that's the only shit that real people care about.

>>48576610
>What's great is plague bearers can kill pretty much anything in the game in melee. Might take a while, but they can hurt tanks and anything else.
>A great unclean one is nearly impossible to kill, especially if you roll for 3 powers in biomancy

I had a GUO w/+1 wound, 2 Heralds (all 3 w/AP 2 swords), a Plague
Drone, 2 Beasts, and 20+ Plaguebearers all die in combat with a single Wraithknight, which they only managed to inflict 2 wounds upon.
So they cant beat anything in the game. At that rate, his Wraithknight couldve killed my entire 1850 point list.

>>48576669
>if the issue was only me, then why did the anon who started this whole discussion ask a question as if it was common problem for people to misread it this way.

The issue is with people hating him for no reason and calling him a failure when the fluff says otherwise. Don't get confused.

>really, please show me where it says this.

CSM 6th ED codex, IIRC. The Crimson path section.

>again, please show me the line or lines where they talk about the logistics.

Do you really need to be told that the Imperium is the mightiest force in the galaxy with access to limitless manpower which is why the Legions hid from it in the Eye of Terror to escape its wrath?

>>48576503
tac marines and some cultits if your just starting out

>>48576697
normie detected.

>>48576697
Maybe WAACcunts and teenagers that refuse to pick up a book but if you are into 40k for only the models and game then you are more retarded then these two fools trying to make sense of Chaos.

>>48576742
>The issue is with people hating him for no reason
He asked the reason why. I presented what i feel is that reason.

>CSM 6th ED codex, IIRC. The Crimson path section.
I'm literally scouring that section now, and it doesn't say that.
I really wish it did.

I think it makes perfect sense and works great. And it's the way I'd like to read his actions. But I've yet to see it in print.

And if it's not in print, the alternate interpretations of "abaddon had to ride out and destroy something 12 fucking times just to get the CSM to follow him" or even "Abbadon's Crusades haven't had a real goal behind them other than to fuck stuff up" have just as much evidence.
And I have a problem with that, because I'd like for the interpretation where he's had this grand scheme across millennia to be the one with evidence.

>>48576752
So basically a mixture of some cultists and CSMs with a couple of cc weapons or something? Keep it cheap for more units?

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>>48576924
>I literally cannot read! waah, spoonfeed me like the baby that I am! waah!.

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Can I get some help for a casual 1k CSM list.

Right now I have a daemon prince, Terminator Lord/Sorcerer with all options magnetized, a squad of of Terminators with all options, 3 obliterators, and a handful of cultists.
I also have a spare SM Rhino I could sacrifice.

All were impulse buys but I want to mix it up. I'm just looking to throw some dice and have some fun. Group really doesn't use flyers, so I don't need any Heldrakes.

I play Imperial armies, so I'm lost on how to get the most out of all of the Chaos options. Plus Cultists and CSM don't seem that great for troops. That being said, I do have enough left over SM/BA/SW and Calth bits to put together 2 x 5-man squads I need to.

>>48574187
>Bring guns to bear
>Aim at bulky Astartes charging directly into your firing line
>He's screaming something about pointy headed faggots
>Ready to fire
>He pulls up a shield covered the literal souls of your ancestors
>Question life itself
>Stare blankly into space as he knee-fucks you in the chest at terminal velocity

Do you need to have the books either digital or physical to legally use a model in a tournament? Some of this shit is 200 plus dollars and only available second hand.

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What do y'all think about this 1250 list I am making for a hopeful game this week?

>>48576924
okay, found something, right before that section. Because I truthfully do want it this to be the canon.

"Many Imperial Strategos have theorized..."
Which is as close as I've ever seen. It's still not saying he's got a plan, or Abaddon saying that he's got a plan. But someone in universe thinks he has a plan.

Now, why the fuck they couldn't just let us know what Abbadon was thinking in that case, since in the Crimson Path they do talk all about his plans and intentions on the 13th crusade, I'm still annoyed at.

>>48576985
>this literally isn't in the Crimson path section. So I won't include the part of the page showing it's not actually in that section.

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>>48576985
>waah
>waaaaaaah
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHH

As an aside I, do you guys think that Mork and Gork (or age of shitmars Morkagorka or w.e.) will make an appearance in 40k end times? Big catlysmic battle between dieties of humans (emperor+primarchs), Orks(gork and mork), Eldar (Ynnead and whatever that khorne esque guy is), Tyranids(Hive mind who turns out to be a god of sorts) and Necrons (Ctan reborn+maybe the dragon of mars?) vs Chaos and all the chaos gods?. No gods for the tau tho because fuck them.

>>48577086
You think thats an excuse for your lack of reading skills? Read more.

>>48577063

Imperial Stratego, you say?

>>48577002
>a casual 1k CSM list.

That is literally any CSM list. Buy what you want.

>>48576730
wraithknights are amazing, this is known. trying to drown it in poison wounds was the mistake on your part since it could just kill 8 plaguebearers and make you crumble/daemonic instability easily

>>48577003
deathwatch found the only surefire way of avoiding the D

>>48577002
> I'm lost on how to get the most out of all of the Chaos options.
It's simple. You don't take them. They're almost universally overpriced and shitty.

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>>48577095

>>48577116
My reading skill to read "the Crimson Path section" as "The Crimson Path Section".
Those were my skills.
After rereading that section 3 times and not finding it, I was disappointed, and posted that I was. I then started reading other sections trying to find it.

And I still feel justified in being pissed that on a page where they are presenting things from within Abaddon's head and describing his plans, they aren't willing to finally fucking confirm that he had a fucking plan for all 13 Crusades.

Because as of right now, we've got other people thinking that. Just like we have you and the other anon thinking that. And maybe you're right. And maybe their right.
But a fucking confirmation still has not been presented.

So maybe the people who think that Abbadon is struggling to desperately herd the cats that are the Chaos Space Marines to get their act together, and periodically has to expend a large amount of his resources just to win a big enough victory to maintain control are right.
Because the closest we have to evidence is other people saying things that you are saying.

>>48577209
Malal's a dragon with cow and shark teeth not a hat wearing skull.

>>48576003
anyone?

>>48577209

>Nurgle not jolly

>Khorne genetic pointy BALD and not dog/ork faced in features

>>48577303
>>48577343
see>>48577209
>tumblr

Would it be worth picking up a 5 man command squad and a third razorback for the army mentioned >>48574764

I guess I am running two MSU (if that means minimal sized units) tactical squads in Razorbacks but some of the tanks aren't too great like the Whirlwind and Predator I could take a command squad for my tech marine in a razorback.

Does a Servo-Harness make him "bulky" or whatever when they take up two seats in a transport?

I think I will still pick up a Vindicator, Predator and Thunderfire Cannon for my heavy supports because it just feels right.

>>48577312

>considering getting an AoS starter

how about you fuck off outta here my man

Fix the CSM codex is one paragraph or less, go!

>>48577576
send the secret police to lobotomize people who whine about it on the internet

>>48576003
tempestus or chaos imo. maybe orks if you really like the models. id skip AoS until you're done with everything else unless you really want to play the game

>>48577576
Remove it and tie CSM into the space marine codex.

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Anyone got a pdf or epub/bmobi copy of pic related? Just finished Hunt for Vulkan and I'm actually enjoying this series.

How many of you have seen Ork armies win regularly? I talked to a buddy of mine who plays table top frequently, and he mentioned a big meet up he went to. All the Ork players just got shit on by literally every other faction. Then I realized I have never heard him tell me he got crushed by Orks, or saw an Ork army score a huge win.
What are you experiences?

>>48577576

New rhinos for each god. Khorne makes the rhino Open topped for assaults , Tzeetch make them psychic pilots, Nurgle makes everything about it Dangerous Terrain for non Nurgle or some shit, Slaanesh get the Dirge Caster. Banners let units of the same mark deep strike with no or d6 scatter. Expand the chaos psychic trees to have 6 spells each with each of them being worth taking. Adjust cost on overcosted units such as normal CSM, Defiler, Mutilators, Dinobots and give most heavy support / vehicles the ability to squadron up.

>>48577838

Oh, and new Land Raiders for each god too. Khorne's are like Redeemers with cool boiling blood torrents, Slaanesh get Noise Cannons and Dirge Casters, Nurgle gets tons of Poison shots, Tzeetch get psychic pilot and allows psykers to cast from inside. In return each of them have to be daemonically possessed and gain the daemon special rule.

Starting some DE here. What's a good way to support the starter boxuo to. Like 1000 points? Would my friends hate me if I took either of the fliers?

>>48578047

Add corsair allies. Or just play corsair's.

>>48578047
More Bikes, the Razorwing Fighters are decent, use the Voidraven to draw fire to it because it's XBOXHUEG. If you're up to it, a ravager. Haywire Scourges for anti-armor. Haemonculus Covens formations are nice, too.

Or....Just play Corsairs like >>48578069, says. Unless your playgroup is afraid of Forgworld.

>>48576503
For Chaos, the Dark Vengeance boxed starter set comes with Chaos armies. A lot of cultists and some characters and Chaos marines. The models can usually be bought for cheap on eBay. I literally just sold mine there.

Either that or the Start Collecting! CSM box contains roughly 500 points I think

>>48577838
>>48577894
Bad Anon. Bad boy. How dare you suggest the other Gods get something.

>I literally was not there for the Eye of Terror campaign that decided the outcome of the 13th Black Crusade
The reason why Abaddon and his legion of faggots have been a running joke for the last 13 years is because their biggest, baddest ever invasion of the Imperium ended with them stuck on Cadia, without a fleet, getting pounded from orbit.

If GW wants to retcon a player-determined "minor victory" into a smashing success, they're going to have to do better than repeating the same hollow "Abaddon is totally the strongest and scariest guize!" line that they've used for over a decade. It would probably be more convincing if CSM weren't one of the weakest factions in the tabletop game.

>>48578069
>>48578075

My wallet is afraid of forge world, my group has a very vocal yet influential spaz that doesn't like forge world, and there is a casual tournament scene in the area that, afaik, doesn't allow forge world. It's kind of a lose/lose/lose on that front.

How are wyches? I remember when venoms with wyches were a thing, and I was interested then. That was some time ago, though.

Haywire Scourges sound awesome because I can't help but love jump infantry. I'm really glad they're playable, actually, especially since they have awesome models now.

What weapons are worth taking and what's not? Is dark lance spam still a thing?

What does everyone use for objective markers?

I'm trying to think of something better than using just bases or poker chips with numbers scrawled on.

I'd like them to be usable as tactical and mysterious objectives.

>>48578288
Lychees supposedly suck, don't bother with them unless you're using the upgraded version (name escapes me)

>>48578334
Wyches, screw autocorrect.

>>48578317
Made some for my Orks
-A big boss-pole
-A bundle of smaller boss-poles
-A pile of rockets and grenades
-Two bases with megablasters stuck into the ground to look like nondescript mek contraptions

>>48578334
>>48578376

Bloodbrides? The elites?

Basically stick to Kabalites in raiders for troops?

What HQs are good? Both the Archon and Succubus have a crazy statline.

>>48574066
Tau point prices weigh in far too low for what they get. GW treats a bunch of robot suits like Monstrous Creatures with jump packs while CSM have possessed machines that have AV, which is demonstrably weaker. Tau have an abundance of high-S, low-AP, long-range shooting that was supposed to be mitigated by average BS, but have a shit-haul of options to functionally ignore average BS. Markerlights also allow them to ignore cover, a truly cancerous capability for how hard it wrecks armies reliant on cover from terrain & especially Jink.

Their basic troops have S5 36" range guns, & that's ludicrous. They do not perform well in CC, but the multiple nerfs to assault pile on to further to protect them from even that.

THEN consider that they can Markerlight even assault units & partner up to Overwarch at full or nearly-full BS, so an assault unit may take the equivalent of 3 shooting phases even if it gets a second turn charge.

>>48578550
>36' range guns
Pretty sure the only basic weapons, the Pulse Rifle and Pulse Carbine only have 24" and 18" respectively.

>>48577532
>playing more than one wargame triggers people

>>48578599
Pulse Rifle is 30" just checked.

>>48578711
Well disregard my post then. Looks like my Fire Warriors got an unexpected buff (from how I played them anyways).

>>48577812
My bro-in-law didn't JSJ his suit commander when I played against his Tau because he "wanted to see what would happen."

My Warboss in Mega Armor ate his brains before the 7 SW dreads made it across the board to table me.

>>48578473
Archon, definitely. Stick him in a Venom with 4 Incubi, deepstrike in with a Webway portal and watch them cut units down.

>>48578811

Cool. No court then? What weapons are good?

Also, how should I arm kabalites? And what's a good number for scourges?

>>48578863
Archons are good with Huskblades or Agonizers. Give them the Shadow Field.

As for Kablites, if you plan on keeping them in the raiders, 9 splinter rifles, 1 blaster and put Splinter Racks on the boats. You can slap a Dark Lance in there in place of a Splinter Rifle if you're feeling ballsy, but most Dark Lances will be on your boats.

Scourges are good at 1 squad of 5, 4 Haywire, 1 regular. 2 if you're facing more than a few pieces of armor.

>>48578550

Tau scream special snowflake race straight out of the womb.
>Our basic guns are +1 strength and +6" range over Boltguns!
>Also our other basic guns all have pinning!
>Our snipers are rapid fire and are mounted on a relentless platform that can JSJ!
>Our MBT has a S10 AP1 incredibly rare before 5th edition *or* a S6 AP4 Pieplate!
>Our Stealth units have Stealth *and* shrouded! brought flamers? Good thing we also have a 3+ save!
>Our deep-strike capable units can Jet-pack move behind terrain safely after landing!
>Our Meltaguns have the same range as the Fire Dragon Exarch's Fire pike!
>We have a HQ choice that isn't a battlesuit, but is superior to an IG command squad with the support it provides. We'll never use it regardless!
>Our codex-related gimmick is pointing widely-available lasers at things and then blowing them to pieces!
Poor fucking Kroot have to share a codex with this shit. This was *before* 6th edition and the drop of the Riptide.

>>48578981
It's okay, anon. Tell us where the Shas'ui touched you.

>>48578943

Awesome. Good to know. Thanks. Any artifacts for the Archon?

The scourges don't want more bodies to soak up fire? I think my FA will get full with a flier and Reavers.

Speaking of Reavers, heat lances or is it better to go with blasters? Caltrops worth the points, because they seem insane.

>>48579046
All the artifacts are relatively decent. You have to kit him out based on what you're targeting.

Keep the bodies on the Reavers. Scourges in squads bigger than 5 are asking to be focused. For Reavers, stick with Caltrops and I personally like Heat Lances since you want to get in close, so you benefit from that delicious Melta AND lance.

I'd recommending watching/listening to SkaredCast on Youtube while you build/paint your dudes. He has a video on EVERY DE unit with strategies and tips you can employ.

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Rate my 2k Ork list. I'm pretty sure I did alright with what I have in my collection with a little help of some anons in another thread.

I know I'm playing Orks, don't remind me.

>>48579150
Awesome, man. Thank you.

I'm an old SoB player. My lgs closed like 4 years ago, and my friends and I finally found a place that isn't 2 hours away. I kinda wanted to start fresh with something different since my main army hasn't had a model update since before I started playing. I had a few ideas up in the air, but you helped me really pick something.

My friends have eldar and space pups, so idk if that changes anything. One might be going Necrons as well.

>>48579209
inb4
>no nobz
>no nauts

seriously though flash gits are really cool and pretty decent

also consider some wagons, or maybe a bunker with an escape hatch, as footslogging boys are not going to make it across the table

>>48579251

Well, if you go Tau you and your friends can represent the complete trifecta of armies no one wants to play against

>>48579209
I would probably give the big mek the fixer uppers. That way he can repair on a 3. Also the mega force field so the Stompa has a better save. It takes a lot to take it down, but better safe than sorry.

>>48579329

I have another friend who played Tau, but I haven't talked to him in a few years. That being said, I'm sure there will be more than enough Tau representation at this shop. Frankly, they don't interest me that much, anyway. Sure, they look pretty neat, but having played sisters for so long, I've grown to like the "Oh cool!" reactions I get when I pull them out. I can't help but imagine Tau would be the polar opposite. Guess I'm a bit of a hipster that way.

What do DE do against the big 3, anyway?

Also, do I just try to pray that I don't die to the psychic phase?

>>48579251
>>48579483
No problem. Just be ready to lose...a lot. I LOVE the models, best in GW's range, imo, but god, did we get shafted in the rules dept. It's not an insta-lose army, but you'll have to fight uphill all game.

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>>48574066
>So I just recently started 40k and I started with Tau

>>48579649
>Wants to avoid cheese
>You people still give him shit

Fuck off, mate. People are allowed to like things you don't.

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>>48579692
Being a Taufag is a crime punishable by death, regardless of how they play it. It's one more dollar supporting the Tau faction. 40K will only be good once those blue fucks are hit with the almighty powers of the C'tan Rhet'con.

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>>48579728
>C'tan Rhet'con

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>>48579728
>40K will only be good once those blue fucks are hit with the almighty powers of the C'tan Rhet'con.

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>>48579728
THE NEW MATT WARD IS UPON US! HE SHALL DELIVER US FROM GARBAGE MECH SIMULATOR + FRIENDS 40K!

>>48573085
Which means Deathwatch will still win. God dammit.

>>48579899
Good

>>48573181
...Wut?

Anyone know where I can download the Grey Knights omnibus??
Novel repo doesn't have it.

Thanks in advance.

>>48574066
>why they supposedly win all the tournaments
They literally never win tournaments.

Don't buy too much into the /tg/ memes. Tau are good, but unless you go full cheese (multiple riptides and stormsurges) you wont be curbstomping marines. On the contrary, Tau are fairly well balanced against Necrons and Marines, though they lack a bit behind both demons and Eldar, purely because they have options Tau cannot reliably deal with.

Be a good boy and stay away from riptides and stormsurges. Unless the opponent is a cheeselord using skyhammer annihilation force, then you should start bringing a few, if not a full riptide wing, and that drone net giving you interceptor markerlights, because trust me, as a Marine player, you don't have the tools to deal with that otherwise. Your pathetic BS3 won't kill everything that will be dropping on that turn, and most the your vital units will just blow up instantly.

>>48574716
What the hell are the Lucky 13's?

>>48574066
Don't worry, the one lone Dark Eldar Player's gonna' looooove you.

>>48580023
Looks like they're just a joke, major losses are their speciality.

>>48577576
All costs remain the same unless specified otherwise. Veterans of the Long War confers Hatred and Stubborn. Mark of Khorne is +1 A and Furious Charge; Icon of Wrath is Rage, Counter-Attack, and reroll failed charges. Mark of Nurgle is +1 T and Feel no Pain; Icon of Despair is Stealth and Fear. Mark of Slaanesh is +1 I, Fleet, and Scout; Icon of Sensation is FNP (6+) and Move Through Cover. Mark of Tzeentch is 5++/+1 to Invulns and Snap-Fire at BS2; Icon of Flames is -1 to Cover Saves and Soul Blaze. All unit champions gain +1 Wound. Psykers have access to all core rulebook disciplines, cast malific as if they were daemons, and use the Daemon powers instead of their own god disciplines. They no longer have to generate at least one from their patron's discipline and can generate all from their patron's discipline if they want. Generic Daemon Weapon is added as a 25 point option, choose from +1 S AP3, S: User AP2, or S: 2x AP2 Unwieldy+Two-Handed. Chaos Decurion is added: Command Benefits are BOGO upgrades for characters and all units with VotLW may treat Rhinos as assault vehicles. Combat Familiar goes to "May reroll 1 To Hit or To Wound roll per turn, will inflict a S4 hit on user if they fail to cause a wound in a round of close combat." Chaos Boons table is roll 3d6 and pick two for the result.

>>48575511
>Acquiring a large warband of Sons of Horus into his army, doesn't count as gathering forces?
Are CSMs retarded? Do they just watch their leader get killed, only to randomly follow the psychopath who just killed him?

Jesus Christ this can't end well. 10$ says literally everyone will try to backstab abaddon during his last crusade.

>>48577576
Retcon Demons and all Chaos Space Marines are now t4, Jump shoot jump jetpack units with a 4+ invul, and two weapon slots.

I've been out of the 40k loop for a while, has the plot line advanced a single second in the past few years?

>>48579593

I play Sisters. I'm ok with losing a lot until I'm good enough to win.

Now, if I buy a starter box, what should I focus on getting next? Scourges and possibly another box? That would give me 6 Reavers, 2 full raiders, scourges, and 2 Archons. Admittedly, the second HQ probably isn't needed.

>>48580508
Actually, the timeline has been firmly rewound to the period prior to the 13th Black Crusade. That's the looming ice-berg in the path of the Hindenberg that is 40k.

>>48580508
Tyranid invasion of Baal was developed, I think they lost their surrounding planets but were able to squash the bugs. The arrival of the 13th company during the Black Crusade was also developed a bit and they brought demons with them which made the DA and friends nuke Fenris for a while.

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>>48572620
No doubt the Eldar will be played up as the arrogant big-bad with interwoven plots and schemes that have been in the making for millennia until Sgt. Chromehead and his ensemble of misfit ceramite drones come in and blow everything up while the Eldar shake their fists in anger.

Sure would be nice if the Eldar could actually not lose at some point.

>>48577576
CSM armies can now take any Space Marine unit that isn't an independent character. That unit's stats are modified as follows: -1 LD, and that unit must take a Mark of some chaos god.
All CSM units that are actually space marines in the lore get and they shall know no fear.

>>48580520
You can run him as a "distraction archon" in a CAD or allied detachment alongside the box formation.

>>48580578
But anon, they were winning everything until they decided to murderfuck a god into existence.

>>48580623

I didn't realize the boxes had their own formation.

I thought about maybe giving the extra a blaster or something and sticking him with a raider, too.

Anyone have the pic where Leman Russ from TTYS makes the Red Rage joke about the women from the Inquisition? Need it for reasons.

Someone was talking about freakshow Dark Eldar lists, that attack leadership instead of toughness. Are such lists just a gimmick, or effective? They sound super lore friendly.

>>48580579
Lore-wise, it wouldn't actually make sense for CSM to get ATSKNF as it's from the indoctrination the SM get when they are made into Astartes. I mean, rogue and traitor marines might have them, but the original warbands like the EC and other traitor marines whom were made by Chaos/Warbands wouldn't have it.

>>48580662
DE's is pretty decent. Declare an enemy unit, all units in that formation within 12' of Archon have Preferred Enemy. Do whatever you can to make him seem like a threat when the real threats are already in position.


>>48580701
Lore friendly as fuck, but essentially useless against Marines, Tyranids, and Daemons.

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Did some digging in my folders and I found this. How fluffy would this be anyway?

>>48580716
Does freakish spectacle stack if from multiple different detachments with that rule?

File: AK Chapter Master.png (945KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

945KB, 1280x1024px

>>48580727
I also remembered that I gave their chapter master a thunder hammer with integrated bolters. How would that even work?

>>48580703
Lore-wise, whether legionnaires could feel fear varies based on he work. In The First Heretic, legionnaires know no fear. The very quote that "And They Shall Know No Fear" is named for is about the legions.

I'm opposed to giving CSM ATSKNF for gameplay reasons, but it's a sound choice lore-wise.

>>48580727
I'm not too sure on how the Mechanicus would feel having spacemarines in charge of a forgeworld.

>>48580805
Could have it so its just above the handle or directly inside of the hammer.

>>48580762
Not anymore (I believe), thanks to FAQ's.

Actually, here's what I got from 2 boxes and scourges. It's 1000 points even.

Archon, Blaster, Shadow field, WWP
Archon, Blaster, Shadow field, WWP

Kabalites x9, Blaster
Raider, Dark lance, Nightshield, Splinter racks, Enhanced Sails

Kabalites x9, Blaster
Raider, Dark lance, Nightshield, Splinter racks, Enhanced Sails

Scourges x5, Haywire blasters x4

Reavers x3, Heat Lance, Caltrops
Arena Champ, Agonizer

Reavers x3, Heat Lance, Caltrops
Arena Champ, Agonizer

>>48580817
Well, gameplay-wise Legionnaires don't have ATSKNF either, though depending on the legion they do have some resistance to morale checks.

>>48580834
Mechanicus only lets one chapter have their own Forge World, and that's because the Steel Confessors are literally the Mechanicum chapter.

File: AK Final Draft.png (991KB, 1280x1024px)

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>>48580834
>I'm not too sure on how the Mechanicus would feel having spacemarines in charge of a forgeworld.
Maybe it could go the marines help rule the world? I haven't really thought about these guys a lot, but what I do know is that I set the cooperation on high. They're that persuasive apparently.
>>48580834
>Could have it so its just above the handle or directly inside of the hammer.
>inside of the hammer
But how would it shoot?

>>48580882
Give the Agonizers to your Archons. Reavers should be using Hammer of Wraths as their main "attacks" and just use the rest of the assault phase to deal extra wounds in CC and then Hit and Run. You can probably also switch around the points from the Arena Champ upgrade for some toys on the Archons.

>>48580578
>the Eldar will be played up as the arrogant big-bad with interwoven plots and schemes that have been in the making for millennia

They actually do this, bruv.