Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>47675821
We should probably be saying that if no restrictions are specified, we will assume 3PP is allowed.

To Gareth, who was talking about the possibility of a PoW npc book, FUCKING GODDAMN YES!

>>47675840
I mean, I just forgot that goblins come standard with shields. I was actually posting on your side brah

>>47675821
Upon finally returning to her long-lost tribe and saving them from a monster, whether to murder the chief while the tribe is unconscious and claim the monster did it, and the chieftainship.

>>47675821
NPC that we like possessed by an advanced shadow demon and holding a knife to her own throat. Will kill herslef if we don't hand over the holy relic. Nearly devolved into PvP since we had 2 people at the exchange with different priorities (one valued the NPC more, the other valued the relic). Until I showed up blasting in at about 31 mph with magic circle against evil up and tackled her.

Please less autism this thread, god fucking damn

>>47675891
> /tg/
> less autism

>>47675849
We used to say that in the OPs for a bit and suddenly we stopped.
No idea why.

>>47675863
Really? Where was that mentioned?
I didn't see any official posts about it last thread.

>>47675952
Yeah, and we had way less of last thread's shitposting and arguments. Not /zero/, this is 4chan after all, but less.

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>>47675821
>Pursuing personal quest to find lost mentor
>Party comes along with me because the GM hasn't given them anything else to do since our last big group-arc, and because ostensibly they're my allies and care about my character
>Quest to find lost mentor almost gets the entire party killed when shit hits the fan
>Party is super pissed at me like it's somehow my fault they decided to come along for this even though I told them multiple times that in-character that it had nothing to do with them (and out-of-character that I'd be fine off-screening it or doing it in private sessions instead of dragging everyone else along)
>Party perpetually uses this as justification to shoot down anything I suggest ever now.

Feels bad man... especially since in-character I'm not playing someone who would actually have a good counter-argument for any of it and actually DOES feel bad over it. Kinda just stuck now until someone else makes a huge fuck-up that puts us all in danger and loses their right to criticize me for it.

>>47675960
He was talking about the possibility of doing one, NPC-codex style. It was last thread or the one before, but he didn't have an image on

Is this a good spell selection for a level 7 Psychic?

Level 1:
Bonus: Burst of Insight
Cure Light Wound (Via Mystic Past Life)
Silent Image
Magic Missile
Heighten Awareness
Remove Fear

Level 2:
Bonus: Instigate Psychic Duel
Invisibility
Mind Thrust 2
Silence

Level 3:
Bonus: Contact Other Planes
Fly
Shadow Enchantment

Priority for level 4 spell is Shadow Conjuration (via Mystic Past Life). Should I switch Magic Missile with ill Omen? I'm pretty sure I can find a few Page of Spell Knowledge in the next town too.

Moral quandry: I need to make a harem girl PC for a game that has ties both to Calimshan and Sune (Faerun) and I am trying to find the most flavorful class/archetype option. Bard seems too obvious.

Any other thoughts?

>>47676244
Anything that qualifies for Enchanting Courtesan, then Enchanting Courtesan.

Soo ,quick little build review quest gentles. Would a psi-armory/warsoul 2, ordained hawkguard 4, be a good build to work with for an E6 campaign?

From what it looks like, they stack pretty nicely... Other than rapid shot, is there any traits or feats to look at?

>>47676264
I think that actually makes Inquisitor one of the stronger entries with Wis synergy to the PrC and that new sex inquisition that lets you brainwash people by screwing them

I am Gming Rise the Runelords, Fortress of the Stoned Giants. During tje first round of the giants raid on Sandpoint the party's dwarf warpriest withstand any rock throw at him because AC 39 against giantkind attacks.
I got so pissed he even used a cursed item that attracts projectiles to him when they are aimed to other Pcs that I decided to use alchemical giant weapons against him.
Also the party's swashbuckler soloed Longtooth.
The AP id now so outdated that classes beyond Core make it a piece of cake.

>>47676244

Paladin.

Give me three good reasons a paladin can't be a harem girl.

>>47676264
This sounds perfect! Where is this from?

>>47676294
Inquisitor, Bard, Gelatinous Cube

>>47675891
>less
>autism
I do not understand.

>>47676297
Inner Sea Intrigue

>>47676299

>gelatinous Cube

He wants a harem girl, not a fuck toy.

>>47676297
Intrigue Toolbox.

Uts level 10 capstone is an Ex, at-will orgasmo touch. No foolin'.

Intrigue Toolbox also has a Vigilante Talent that lets you screw someone for an hour, then you get a pool of will save and cha-skill rerolls.

>>47676309
>forgetting the existence of Form Figure
>blatant racism vs cubular minorities
>in 2016

>>47676303
Was it Inner Sea Intrigue? I forget the names of things. Ehhh, one of the two.

>>47676321
>>47676332
You got magic tactic toolbox and inner sea intrigue mix up?

>>47676342
Courtesan sounds like the kind of stuff you will fimd in intrigue.

>>47676292
It's less being outdated and more being balanced around minimal competency at the game.

>>47675968
Sounds like a shit group.

Since when is there a sex inquisition?

>>47676391
Since Inner Sea Intrigue.

How many "energy" types are in the game?
Fire
Acid
Sonic
Cold
Electricity
Positive
Negative
Force?

>>47676377
I don't know you but killing a dragon in less that three turns is anti-climatic.
Maybe the inane tendency to try impress an non-existent authority is compelling to you but I am into this for have some narrative thrill. If you have self-esteem issues to the point you bring the to the tabletop and be "competitive" in a narrative played with your friends maybe you need therapy.

>>47676399
Any leaks of that, or will I have to stop being poor?

>>47676417
I agree with you to an extent, but Rise of the Runelords and paizo as a whole do not balance AP's against much of anything. At the very best it gets play-tested with a single class blaster wizard, a twf fighter, a scimitar druid, and a knife throwing rogue. That's a pretty low bar.

>>47676429
Even if you have a job is morally and ethically toxic to buy the shit Paizo loads unto us.

>>47676462
But someone has to bite that bullet anon.

>>47676450
Yes. And thanks to that you must jury rig the damn APs.
I had to use the Young Red Dragon stats from Mythic Adventures so my Pcs, level 10 and without any mythic tier, take him as a serious threat and not just another "goblin with wings and breath weapon".

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>>47676429

>>47676510
Praise be to anon!

>>47676510
What's a good build to go into this with? I really like it, but I'm not sure what to start with.

>>47676535

the new sex inquisition is a solid start for an inquisitor. I also recommend the infiltrator archetype
>>47676510
anon, can we have the sex inquisition as well? The one with standard action to force them to listen to diplomacy and then uncapped diplomacy from an hour of vigorous hand holding?

>>47676510
This prestige class is perfect for Kingmaker.

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>>47676557

>>47676557
>Be shellinite
>Sex inquisition
I want fucking calystrians out of the thread.

>>47676406
This is one of those things that was never properly -DESPITE HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS DIRECTLY ASKED TO THAT EFFECT- answered.

What we DO know is that Force, Positive and Negative are not 'standard' energy types. They can't be converted to/from for the most part, and standard methods will give you no resistance to them (Force in particular is THE "if all else fails use this" damage type; usually lower in die type than others but as reliable as it gets).

Now, whether they're halved against objects, that was never answered to my knowledge. Force should probably not. Positive and Negative probably should.

Likewise, I don't recall vulnerability vs Hardness (like electrical vs robots): there's some GMs who've claimed you multiply THEN reduce by hardness, but all common sense would be that the protective toughness of an object works first, and THEN anything getting through the plating gets 150% frying the delicate innards.

>>47676745
How robutts hardness works?

Regarding that spheres warlock homebrew (fuck if I remember your post number)

The main problem I can see here is that it fixes nothing in regards to warlocks blasting all day. This suffers from the EXACT problem of the vigilante warlock and armorist blaster: anything you want to do beyond COMPLETELY SHIT DAMAGE AT SHORT RANGE requires spell points.

In other words, it is literally "X/Day", except also eating into your other abilities outright to do so.

You want the warlock to have a limited amount of things he knows how to do; but those things should not be stunted by his level. His CL can be low, but the DCs follow his full level. Likewise the blasts should eventually get 1, then 2 1-SP adders that they can do for free, representing the gain of essences and blast shapes.

>>47676328

Form Figure does not change her low intelligence and boorish ways.

>>47676745

Positive and negative are definitely halved against objects, because there is a variant channeling that explicitly says you do not do half damage against objects if you choose it.

>>47676579
>>47676628
>Sex inquisition and talents related to Shelyn.

Woot? But Shelyn is pure, delicate and innocent. She is not about being a good aligned semen demon, she id about holding hands and cuddling. >>47676745

>>47676811

Shelyn loves sex between two consenting adults, especially sex for love and *definitely* sex for procreatio (she loved them babies.)

>>47676787
>What is an Apallie
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/apallie

It's got an INT rating, plus it doesn't just want to digest you.

>>47676776
>You halve damage then apply hardness then apply vulnerabilities

>You apply vulnerabilities then apply hardness and you don't halve things

>You halve things, then apply vulnerabilities, then apply hardness

>You apply vulnerabilities, then apply hardness, then halve damage


WHO THE FUCK KNOWS.

I suggest, if we can't find a concrete answer, that Hardness apply first, THEN vulnerabilities, THEN halving vs objects (so your computer takes a total of 75% of what you would have taken as a person. It's small and has little hp so it still fries first).

Force just ignores DR/Res as usual

>>47676787
Jellies are -Dex, not -Cha

Your goo girl can be very charming, she's just a klutz. Dojikko moe.

>>47676821
This sudden interest into carnal love must be Arshea's doing.

>>47676830

It's also Small, and while some people are into that most Medium sized races will want a Medium sized lover. Being able to take it all in without pesky organs does have perks, though!

>>47676839
I meet a GM which houseruled the hardness as:
You do jack and shit damage unless you sunder dat armor or the weapon does electric damage, then you apply accordingly to vulnerability but substract the weapons damage and only keep the energy one.

>>47676854

Who said anything about carnal love?

Arshea is into sex for sex's sake, they love sex because it feels good and it's two lovely bodies humping each other.

Shelyn loves sex because it's the culmination of feelings between two people, it's an expression of love or affection or intimacy and that's what really gets Shelyn off.

Shelyn is the lewd ara ara mom or older sister that gets off entirely on getting Best Girl and their son/brother together, and watching them hold hands and kiss from a slightly ajar closet.

>>47676854
Oh man, can't wait for Arshea try to fuck Lamashtu into redemption and end corrupted in a fucked up kinky way.

>>47676841

Luckily Perform is a Cha skill, since the best harem girls are supposed to know poetry or an instrument.

What are the best attributes for a harem girl, anyway? Cha, Int, Dex and Wis seem to me the obvious ones (in that order), but are there any races that stand out as ideal bedroom girls?

Hard mode: you need to present them as ideal in a way that doesn't highlight their assets or beauty.

So I got bored with playing Batman-God Wizards, and for a challenge, I am looking at optimizing the FUCK out of a WoP blaster. This is what I came up with:

Dwarf Sorcerer, going Crossblooded/Wildblooded for Primal Earth/Copper Dragon (GM's okay with the combo). I throw out the 1st and 3rd level Sorcerer bloodline power for Blood Havoc and Blood Intensity, and go VMC Wizard (Admixture) to top it off. That sets mup with:

Primal Earth Bloodline: +1 Damage per die to Earth/Acid spells
Copper Dragon Bloodline: +1 Damage per die to Earth/Acid spells
Blood Havoc: +1 Damage per die to bloodline spells or school spells with Spell Focus
FC Sorcerer (Dwarf): +.5 Damage per level of Sorcerer
VMC Admixture Wizard: +.5 Damage per level
Blood Intensity: As Intensified Spell (nonstacking), but adds up to CHA mod in dice

Using "Corrosive Bolt" as my go-to for its awesome no-save no-SR multiple-round damage, I stack Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage for metamagic reduction, then Empower and Maximize the shit out if that. 5d4+15+lvl Acid damage per round for 2 rounds is ace for a second level spell, and I can boost that up to 22d4+66+lvl per round for 4 rounds before maximization with an energy type of my choice.

And on the side, I can set up Lock Ward'ed potion stoppers with all kinds of boosts for my allies during downtime.

I think my GM will hate my guts.

>>47676915
Which was the other empyreal lord that is a prostitute with a heart of gold?
Also, Shelyn will be doing a painting in the closet as she looks love being manifest carnally.

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We need more of these things

>>47677024

Lymnieris, the LG God of prostitutes and virginity.

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Would you save her?

Okay everyone we have a new wave of toys and updates for Lords of the Wild. Complete with a changelog!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FcMpsY7ancpaWiBpFhI_jlARL8p2OXZhaFxAjzJCyW4/edit
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479603-Dreamscarred-Press-Introduces-Lords-of-the-Wild-The-Playtest!

Added animal form size to the werewolf template
Added Greater Werewolf and Formless Master prestige classes
Werewolf requirement removed from Varsark
Size Shift renamed to Magnitude Shift
Text added to Rapid Shifting and Extra Shifting to clarify that it does not require that you be shifted
Tail added to Deathsting Shift
Chameleon Shift, Identity Shift, and Sensory Shift added
Temporary natural weapons created by Chimera Soul maneuvers now do damage as normal for their size and type

>>47677072

She looks like a captured Solar, rescuing her would be the stuff of an entire mid-level campaign.

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#rekt

We need rules for modern fantasy stat

>>47677102
The fuck is that aberration?
Looks like one of the clientelar races of the Dominion.

>>47677209

I think it's called an elf

>>47677102
That's some 5E level facial expression right there.

>>47677218
Talking about abominable monsters.
Anything new from Horror adventures?

>>47677218
>>47677277
Topkek

Yes, please; July, or whenever the fuck it's supposed to come out fast approaches

>>47677303
I am somewhat hyped for it. I intend to do a mini campaign based on Nightmare on Elm Street with Nightripper as BBEG.

Is there a newer Tzocatl playtest somewhere? The one I'm looking at has comments from 2014 in there.

>>47677236
Somebody needs to photoshop the guffawing elf onto those tentacles.

>>47677086
Oh, and I'll be around for a while, if anyone has feedback.

>>47677480
I think that's up to date maybe?
It's an extremely short (melee only really) ranged caster with decent looking effects

Has anyone here ever played a living world game using PF before? How'd it go? I was thinking of trying to get one started but my only experience with them is one game I played in years ago using fudge.

Why is Lymnieris best LG goddess?

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>>47677655
I have nothing to add to this conversation, but have finally found a use for this pic related.

spymaster handbook leaks when

>>47677726
Because "sucky, sucky five slain vrocks".

>>47676294
Submission to another means you can't take the initiative against evil.

And really, that's the only reason.

>>47676406
Five.
Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, and Sonic.

Positive and Negative Energy aren't true "energy types", and Force is also not a true energy type - note that these three are the only types of energies that can effect incorporeal creatures without a miss chance regardless of source, making them more potent than the five basic types of energy.

>>47677726
Is not that empyrial lord which used to be a planetar that during a raid into the Abyss got caught by Noctycula who fucked into divinity?

>>47676292
>he even used a cursed item that attracts projectiles to him
This is a cunning strategy and you should be applauding him.

>The AP id now so outdated that classes beyond Core make it a piece of cake
No, it's just that Paizo's APs are designed so that a blind idiot monkey could survive it, let alone a group that actually knows how the game works (Paizo certainly don't).

>>47677929
>No, it's just that Paizo's APs are designed so that a blind idiot monkey could survive it, let alone a group that actually knows how the game works (Paizo certainly don't).
What about Iron Gods

>>47676292
That dwarf was awesome. THAT is a warpriest who knows how to do his fucking job.

And don't for a moment think classes BEYOND the core are what make those APs a piece of cake. All APs are terminally vulnerable to parties more capable than "two rogues who never have any use for their abilities in this, a fighter, and a monk". A single full-caster can shatter mostAPs with half the work we usually accuse them of needing to break campaigns. He doesn't even need to TRY. The APs are built that badly.


Any half-decent group of not-tier-6 is going to annihilate APs.

>>47676925
Wouldn't be surprised if that's how Nocticula fell from being an empyreal lord.

>>47676309
What if the cube is the one who wants the harem.

>Hey girls, wanna hop in my JAY E L L OH?
*I jiggle seductively and roll diplomacy*

>>47677946
Iron Gods doesn't set the bar much higher than normal, it's just got much better set pieces.

No, the only AP that's actually running a risk of killing PCs that are reasonably well built is Giantslayer, and that's because it has some monsters that are blatantly unfair, such as an encounter with an incorporeal wasp swarm.

>>47677992
That will explain her pathological obsession to murderfuck ever single demon lord but not how her brother fell.

>>47677982
You should see how normie play pathfinder.

I have seen...
Monk 3/Sorcerer 4
Ninja 3 /Inquisitor 1 /Magus 3
Bard 5 /Ranger2
And Bard 7 who has 8 in all physical stat, cause "my character is a lover not fighter"

>>47677655
I have. It can be good, but you often end up getting paired up with random new players without warning from session to session, since there's so many players that you can't possibly have the same party composition every time. What this usually means is that sessions themselves are often intended to be self-contained one-shot missions, or the occasional two-parter.

What this means is there are a few limitaitons, namely it requires strict management of character sheets, usually a dropbox to receive them. It also requires multiple DMs, that's pretty much mandatory with so many people, someone's going to inevitably get burned out. Third, try to be generous with class and race selection. With so many players, they're going to be disappointed if you've got anything specifically core-only or whatever. Fourth, do clearly define what content is banned, but don't sweat it too hard if someone finds something broken, it's pathfinder after all. And Fifth, have systems in place for people who want 'alt' characters. Or at least a way for them to replace a dead character with a new one who's almost as high-level.

>>47678015
Does your PC breath?
Because Furkas Xourd will be glad to perform some experiments regarding that matter.

>>47678015
There's also, sort of, that shark pool in Skull and Shackles, but it's the only part of the AP that's actually at chance of killing the PCs.

>>47678015
>Iron Gods doesn't set the bar much higher than normal, it's just got much better set pieces.

When you ignore the repeatedly respawning enemies, invisible enemies, darkness spamming enemies, the massive building full of kytons and a creature spamming touch sneak attacks for force damage, and all the hidden time limits, sure. Iron Gods is a meat grinder unless you play one of the specific classes that does especially well with it.
>>47678089
Fuck me I'd almost forgotten that bastard. To be fair though, he is fairly harmless when your cleric prepares communal resist fire, communal delay poison and anti-incoporeal shell.

>>47678060
>not how her brother fell
Perhaps he came into existence after her fall?

>>47677855

She could always be in the harem of a virtuous Prince, using her abilities to ensure none of the other girls hold evil in their hearts, or are actually succubi/Rakshasha.

A solid Paladin at your side and in your bed is an easy ticket to a rule unblemished by infernal forces.

>>47678097

You forgot the rum rations.

>>47678152
Oh, yes, I did. GM didn't do them for my group because they're so fucking stupid, I'd forgotten.

>>47678161
>lethal Rum Rations
Dare I ask? What keeps coming to mind is someone getting you so hooked on their rum that a sudden shortage kills you from withdrawal.

>>47678119
>Furkas Xourd
>Robotic assistants present.
>First round insta-kills the wizard with phantasm killer.
>Second round wall of force traps bloodrager and warpriest
>Third round cloudkill inside the wall of force cage.
>Fourth round irradiate on investigator.

Yeah, Iron Gods piece of cake brah.

>>47678086
I was planning on making the game EL6, which hopefully handles the issues with progression/new characters that pop up in these games. I'll keep the other stuff in mind though, thanks.

>>47678184

You're forced to drink rum rations every day at level 1, if you fail the fort save you lose 1d4 CON.

You only recover 1 Con a day from rest.

>>47678212
Is this the E6 where that's the limit for everyone, ir is this the E6 where players haven't grown past it in 6 years but there's level 16 NPCs running around?

>>47678206
Didn't say it was anon, though how was he trapping two people with Wall of Force when it's a plane? That aside, Delay Poison+Anti-incoporeal shell beats all that bar phantasmal killer, which was really just bad luck for your wizard.

Iron Gods is a bitch, but I think Furkas is alright if you prepare properly and have a cleric. Otherwise...

>>47678184
>Aboard many ships, half a pint of rum is distributed to each
>crew member at dusk. The rum is staggeringly strong, and is
>often watered down to make grog. Characters drinking the
>ration are affected as though they had taken an addictive drug
>(see page 236 of the GameMastery Guide for details on drugs
>and addiction). The rum ration is doled out more to keep
>the crew sated and docile than for recreation. The penalty for
>selling or spilling the ration is six lashes, or six lashes from
>a cat-o’-nine-tails for a second offense. Deliberately tipping
>away rum on board a crowded ship without being seen
>requires a DC 10 Stealth check. While on merchant or navy
>vessels rum rations are strictly limited, on pirate ships, crew
>members can often request more rum if they please.
>Shackles Rum Ration
>Type ingested; Addiction minor, Fortitude DC 5
>Price 2 sp
>Effect variable; +1d4 alchemical bonus to Charisma and
>fatigued for 1d8 hours
>Damage 1d3 Con

Daily. Bad enough on its own, but coupled with all the other fatigue/exhaustion related stuff and so on, it'll fuck you up pretty solidly.

>>47678221
Wow, that's pretty dumb. Nothing a competent healer can't hand though.

If the whole crew have this issue, I am assuming they have a couple of healers on hand to keep the crew alive through long voyages.

>>47678257
>If the whole crew have this issue, I am assuming they have a couple of healers on hand to keep the crew alive through long voyages.

Yeah, there's a very beautiful redheaded Cleric of Besmara that is canonically designed to become your first and closest friend on the ship.

>>47678226
The limit for everyone, although I'd probably allow higher level magic as part of a ritual or something. I'm not quite fully retarded.

>>47678250

...that's not even how rum rations WORKED.

In D&D there isn't actually call for rum rations because they don't have issues getting fresh water as long as they can get a level 1 cleric with create water.

>>47678299
The captain, or at least the one you get later on in the first book, refuses to consume magically created food or water because he believes it is poisoned. The sheer number of hoops that the book jumps through to get around the magic issue is unbelievable at times.

Our cleric instead just created it anyway, and when we were told it would "taste odd" the sorcerer just prestidigitated it to not.

>>47678248
I remind you that the fight takes place in a small circular room and not in the open. Easy for Furkas to corner you with wall of force, better if one of the PCs is not medium sized.

>>47678333
With water, it actually would taste odd due to it actually being clean, unlike the general level of water purity in such a situation.

>>47677888
Immunity to force is a thing now though.

>>47678364
Where?

>>47678367
Aether elemental, Aether dragon etc.

>>47678333

>The captain, or at least the one you get later on in the first book, refuses to consume magically created food or water because he believes it is poisoned.

That is so very, very stupid. I mean, it's actively the LEAST able to be poisoned drink in existence.

So how does that work with 'Aboard many ships'? You can't have every single captain be a fucking idiot like that.

>>47677929
That is not clever. That strategy is fucking old.

>>47678423
Sailors are fucking superstitious to a lot of shit I guess. Not reasonable really, given how prevalent magic is in golarion

>>47678414
Time to work out some fleshcrafting potions.

>>47676961

Their assets and beauty are part of the ideal you dork.

And ideal bedroom girls depends on genes and environment. If you're trying to attract R-selectors, small with big booty. If you're trying to attract K-selectors, tall with big tits.

>>47678623
r/K selection has been discredited, cuck. The life-history model has a lot in common with it, but it's still not that simple.

>>47678665

How could you discredit r/k? That's like trying to discredit supply and demand as a concept in economics.

"It's still not that simple"

Yes but as a rule of thumb...yeah, it works a lot of the time.

Is there any kind of limit to the Improved Damage customization for Aegis? Can I just take that as all my customizations and instantly destroy everything I come across?

>>47678715
>he thinks 3 damage per point is that good
kek sure you can do that if you want to suck

>>47678623
>Their assets and beauty are part of the ideal you dork.

I was asking for requests where the beauty and assets are assumed, nerd.

I want a girl with fat soft boob pillows I can lay on while she weaves me a tale about some exotic far-off land.

>>47677086
>Temporary natural weapons created by Chimera Soul maneuvers now do damage as normal for their size and type
Did you list within the book how much damage that would normally be, so that we don't have to reference an obscure and sometimes-inaccurate table from Paizo?

>>47675821
wait why doesn't the paladin just go to the burning orphanage first then the antipaladin's castle

priorities

>>47678774
>/pfg/ autist does not understand humor
surprise

Is it ok to railroad a little bit to prevent a TPK?
My party is fighting each other over a mark, which happens to be another PC.

>>47678414
>aether dragon
I can't find that on the SRD. Link?

>>47678794
Eh, depends on the group. How challenging of a game was this meant to be? Personally if they were stupid enough to kill each other I'd just let them die/pass out, their own choices have consequences. There are plenty of ways to continue a plot after near-death, after all.

>>47678837
This was their first mission, and the mark was instructed to go quietly, but one asshole decides to go lethal instantly, and beat that guy to 3 hp. Then he got stabbed with a posion blade and now everybody's fighting to death.

It's like a steampunkish setting in alkenstar.

How big was the spells section in Magic Tactics Toolbox? Got a friend who wants to take a look at options at Wiz/Sorc 4 and was wondering if it was feasible to get them put up here.

>>47678859
Oh. Yeah, nah, at the very least don't pull punches for the idiot who went lethal. Maybe go easy on the others if it wasn't their fault and they did everything they could to not have shit hit the fan, but if you let the asshole get off easily it'll encourage his behavior.

>>47678881
>Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/hdPm41ad
It should be here.

>>47679018

Doesn't look like MTT is in the trove yet, which is why i was asking

>>47678206
>>47678337

Can't cast spells through a wall of force, no line of effect.

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What's the cheesiest gestalt you can think of?

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You ever realize you've been playing the same game for 16 fucking years?

I don't get any joy out of it anymore. Like, it's just been an excuse to hang out the past few years.

But I think it's also physically impossible for me to play anything else at this point. My brain is just so hardwired into it. I tried to join some friends in a game of Apocalypse World last week and I kept rolling dice that weren't d6s out of instinct and kept thinking I was playing a Fighter instead of a Battle Babe.

I don't know what to do.

>>47679226
Cheesy as in corny or abusive?

>>47679226
Ninja // anything / Assassin

>>47679273
Abusive.

>>47679292
Wizard/aegis or arcanist/aegis, I suppose. Or maybe oracle/paladin for Cha-SAD shit.

>>47678759
Not a bad idea. I'll copy the table over when I get home.

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>>47679226
Without resorting to T1, and assuming you mean "most mechanically cheesy"? Master Summoner||Promethean/Preservationist Alchemist.

Fuck your encounters. I'm summoning things, my eidolon is summoning things, my homunculus is summoning things, my familiar is summoning things, my cohort is summoning things, and if I even have a party, they're probably summoning things too. It doesn't even matter that I have two separate "casting" stats. The battle was over before it began. Even if it's not, I have a Homunculus bodyguard and my Cohort, just in case somehow the problem can't be solved via summons.

>>47679269
Not really cheesy in the traditional sense, but I'm a big fan of Mystic//AugBladeWarSoul

Mystic Artifice lets you craft spell trigger items. Psicrystal Power Source lets you spend a relatively tiny amount of PP (double the spell level of the item) to cast any wand or dorje at your full ML. Crank out cheap wands of [useful spell] like a MF'er, play a pseudo-wizard who happens to be a DOUBLE INITIATOR. Your weapon costs are basically nil since you're also a soulknife with Sleeping Goddess, so you've got some spare WBL anyways.

>>47679442
Oh, forgot the most important part.

Spending those PP also prevents the wand from using charges, so if you REALLY want to save, crank those wands out with a single charge for a huge discount.

>>47679490
You can't craft wands with less than 50 charges, famalam.

>>47679508
Huh, so you can't.

Can still buy 'em, though. Craft the ones you can't find at a shop, but buy wands any time you can at rock-bottom prices for being barely filled and crafted at minimum caster level. Since you're getting your own ML instead of the original caster level, it actually benefits you to find discount hedgewizards who craft low-CL shit anyways.

>>47679575
Giacomo please go and stay go.

How do you scale a low cr monster to match the pcs level?

>>47679807
Give it levels in fullcaster or initiator

If I've got a sorcerer player in a party with a wizard, what's the best way you fix the jank 1-level-behind bullshit for them? Do you bump the WHOLE chart up, or just say there's a "1" above the topmost entries in each column? Which is the better way to go?

>>47679838
Change all his levels of sorcerer into levels of wizard, swap Cha with Int, tada

>>47679838
Just bump the chart up by a level; the only level that leaves in a lurch is 20, at which point you'll have likely figured something out.

>>47679838
Well first of all, what kind of things does the wizard prepare, and what kind of sorcerer are we talking here? A sorcerer is technically "better" at a specific thing, so as long as his niche is secure the player shouldn't have too many issues.

As an example: An enchantment sorcerer fully decked out (Arcane or Fey bloodline, Kitsune race with their FCB, the correct feats, etc) could be capable of mindfucking more things than the wizard could never dream of, but will have fewer things they can do outside of that if they don't pick the right backup spells.

A Sorcerer also easily blows a wizard out of the water when it comes to blasting, but that's kind of a moot point when blasting isn't a very optimal route.

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How would you go about creating Ginko in Pathfinder?

>>47679901
>>47679831
>>47679852
Why do you even post such terrible advice.

>>47679838
Do nothing. The sorcerer is fine.

>>47679917
Human commoner 1

>>47679919
>he says as he shitposts

>>47679914
>blasting
>not optimal
Levels 4 through 12 would like a word.

>>47679928
No seriously. The sorcerer is fine.

>>47679807
With just monster hit dice? Give it 1.5x as many additional hit dice as the number of CR it needs to move up. Generally you should give it an extra feature every odd increase too, whether it's size, extra attack/movement option, a spell-equivalent or just something from the eidolon evolution pool.

Or add "lives in the pitch black ceilings of caves waiting for passerby" to its habitat entry.

Building a sword and board antipaladin. Any advice?

I know shield bashing is cool and all but it seems far too feat intensive?

>>47679914
It's strictly worse at its specialty at odd levels no matter what it is. It's bad design.

>>47679917
Human Expert 2 or 3.
Give him things like skill focus knowledge (mushi).

There's an article called "D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations" which talks about how D&D (and by association, pathfinder) represent skill and competence in the d20 system. It's a good read, I highly recommend it.

>>47676280
>that new sex inquisition that lets you brainwash people by screwing them
What kind of piss wizard looked at an inquisitor and thought, yeah banging people to mind control them totally fits with this thematically?

>>47679965
As a Antipaladin, you won't have the necessary feats to make it a viable option until too much late.

>>47679943
See >>47679972

>>47679943
>gets 2nd level spells at the same level the partial casters do
>is supposed to trade versatility for power but it's straight up not true for half of the levels, for no actual purpose
>question was literally about sorcerer in a party with a wizard, not about its relative strength compared to a swashbuckler or whatever

>>47679055
It was worded in tje wrong order for not having to explain that Furkas haves a metamagic rod which hinders movement to ghose who are victims of a cllud spell. Cloudkill when first (after the robot assistants unleashed stinking cloud), the came the nasty surprise.

>>47679226
Marshal//Arcanist

>>47679914
>blasting isn't a very optimal route.
Name a monster that doesn't die to damage anon. Blasting is the only option that always works 100% of the time.

>>47679972
Unless you need to use a lot of spells in one day.

Sorcerers have anywhere from 1.5 to 2x as many base spells per day as the wizard at any level.

>>47679972
No, it isn't. One higher level spell is not just better than having a lot of versatile lower level spells.

>>47679965
Depends, will you be facing lots of Good enemies? Smite makes up for your loss of damage. But yeah, use your feats on more useful things than shield bashing. It also depends what the rest of the party is.

>>47680050
Apparently most monsters kill themselves after losing enough turns as the god wizard spends all of his spells.

How would you guy build Savage Technologist?
With a Shadowshooting pistol, I guess I don't have to worry about reloading hand?

Should I dual-wield pistol dagger?

Hey I've been watching game of thrones allot as of late and I like the political intrigue BS of it.
Would something like that ever work for a campaign?

>>47680023

What I figured, so just equip the shield and forget about anything else?

>>47680095

It's Hell's Vengeance, so yes.

My current feats are:

Natural Charmer
Power Attack
Mask of Virtue (If I can sell my soul by level 5)
Cornugon Smash
Soulless Gaze

I'm considering dropping Natural Charmer, I just really like the RP flavor to it, since I plan on being the face of the party as well and just really fitting a leader role.

>>47680009
That was really interesting, thank you.

But what I meant was: Which PC-Class would fit best for a Ginko-styled-Character? (My post should've been worded like this)

>>47680159
Drop the shield and just Two Handed some big shit.

>>47680201
>>47679965
>anti paladins get full blown demons to help them
>pally gets a horse
lol

>>47679965
Shield bashing a shit. Focus on other things

>>47679965
Use Path of War's Iron Tortoise. It makes shield stuff actually decently viable, assuming your group is reasonable. Shit's cool, man.

>>47679226
Monk /hospitaler paladin/ champion of irori // cleric 1/lore oracle

With the crane style chain, osyluth guile, ki channel, a ring of ki mastery, bronze gong channel focuses, and the bracer of celestial intervention, you can cast summon monster IX as early as 8th level, assuming you can afford the bracers by then, using ki to smite evil or chaos, or lay on hands upwards of 40 times a day. Strong offense, ridiculous defense, full casting, and with ultimate mercy, free raise deads for your allies.

>>47680213
Evil Pays Better, anon.

>>47680201

I was going to go 2h but my DM is urging me to go sword and board, apparently there's some nice stuff for it, much like he's urging one of the other players to go Hellknight since you are given a free set and an NPC Hellknight can even witness your battle against a devil etc.

>>47680262
You will lose too much damage for a minimum boost to your AC.

Did he allows 3pp? if so, pick up a Reach weapon and Pikeman's Training.

>>47680189
I mean, what does Ginko really do most of the time? He uses his wealth of mushi and natural lore, along with choice equipment, to solve problems. He's reasonably strong and in-shape as a traveler, but he has no actual ability to fight. He could be an archetype of an investigator without alchemy, like a sleuth. He does get lucky at times.

He'd be built like a skill monkey, for the most part.

>>47680328
Don't listen. You lose maybe eight damage on a power attack at level 12 and can easily gain 7+ ac from the shield.

>>47680354
>Shield AC
>Mattering
I know you're retarded and all, but it doesn't apply to touch, it's easily lost, and using a 2h gives 1.5x Str, Power Attack, several beneficial archetypes, and will do enough damage to routinely kill enemies before that miniscule AC bonus ever matters.

>>47678273

Really? There's a lovely pirate lass in the first book?

>>47680354
You're investing in a +5 shield as early as level 12? Now that's just wasteful.

Also, 8 from PA plus losing .5 Str mod (probably 2-3). On 3 attacks.

>>47680354
It's a shame that I can't filter your retarded posts, because AC is laughable bad to protect your character, AND you are horrible at this game.

Losing almost 16 points of damage at that level 12 (not 8) is too damn high, retard.

>>47680368

The original idea was to just go intimidate focused and use Dread Vanguard's Beacon of Evil as support/buffing.

The damage is nice obviously, but with a cruel and conductive weapon I feel my debuffing ability should be pretty damn nasty, and Touch of Corruption will help with my damage/healing. Also there's always Smite.

>>47680434
Losing about 16 damage per swing is too much, anon.

>>47676244

>this degeneracy is acceptable because it doesn't have a titty picture involved

lol this general is so fucked up

>>47680448
If your primary goal is debuffing not really. Where are you getting 16 from?

What's the most nigger dindunuffin group in Golarion?

And what are the defacto kikes?

I want to go full /pol/ on the setting when I run it.

>>47680335
I was kinda thinking the same thing.

What about just going with the traveling Witchdoctor-theme? Maybe like a Cleric with a Custom Mushi-deity/domain.

>>47680368
>35% greater chance to ignore physical attacks
>combined with cha to saves and swift action self healing
Yea losing that is totally worth eight damage per turn.

Most of your damage comes from your smute anyways. No one cares about touch when you have those saves, and it is not "easily lost" at all.

It's obvious you haven't done any math so please stop handing out bad advice.

>>47680426
I assume one feat spent on the shield so it is a +4 shield. It also isn't that much damage unless you are blowing both your point buy and WBL on str.

>>47680433
Post your math then. I bet you are assuming 24+str

>>47680466
His imagination.

>>47680466
I messed up. Shitposter is right.

>>47680434
>There's always smite
Please, tell me how many Good aligned things you'll realistically be fighting. Because that's all it works on.

>Touch of Corruption
It's okayish at best, doesn't do THAT much damage, and it's a limited use ability that you'll burn double to use for this.

>>47680487
>35% chance against physical attacks
Or

OR

Get this, dumbass.

OR you could kill the enemy twice as fast by 2hing, and since Antipaladin smite ONLY APPLIES TO GOOD SHIT, WHICH IS A PITIFULLY SMALL PORTION OF THE BEASTIARY AND ONLY A TINY PORTION OF PEOPLE it's shit.

>Blowing points on Str
Ah, yes, you're 'blowing' points to invest in your primary attribute and do your primary role in the party. Silly me, I assumed you were playing an Antipaladin, not an evil Oracle with a sword.

>>47680487

>implying attack bonuses and touch, etc. spells at that level don't scale so high as to make armor/shield AC almost pointless

Face it, the BAB calculations to AC ratios are completely fucked up past early levels.

>>47680426
>On 3 attacks.
>no pounce
>not using a bow
laughinggirls.jpg

1. You get 1 attack per turn at best and it's probably at the end of a charge. Most of your damage comes from your smite as well, and a paladin is in the unique position at the nexus of good HD, high saves, self healing, and high BAB where armor tanking is actually a really solid technique.

>>47680548
Hell's Vengeance he said, so enough. Speaking from the PoV of having played Iron Gods, AC is probably the most important defense. AC is like damage. When you get enough of it, it's the most effective thing because nothing negates it.
>>47680578
>Twice as fast
Not twice, since two-handing doesn't double damage. One and a half times as fast perhaps, before taking Smite into account
>ONLY APPLIES TO GOOD SHIT
Which I hear is common in Hell's Vengeance.

>>47680578

Everyone knows that the antipaladin is just the animal companion to the Succubus PC he summons, silly.

>>47680584

How does one 'tank' in 1pp especially at a level where teleporting, invisible, flying, etc. enemies are much more plentiful? Or are you one of those crazies who thinks every battlefield and campaign composed of 10x10 hallways in a cramped dungeon?

>>47680487
Level 12? Even if you start with an 18 Str, you can easily have a +4 belt by then, and toss two of your level-up attribute points into Str for 24 Str. That's +7 Str, which means an extra 3 points per hit on 3 attacks per turn, plus the extra power attack damage. It's roughly 12 extra damage a turn.

>>47680612
>Nothing negates it

What is attacks that go against touch AC
What is attacks that go against Flat Footed AC
What is Blinded condition
What is various other attacks that deny you your Dex
What is a Brilliant Energy weapon
What are things that target saves rather than AC
What are things that don't do damage but instead just incapacitate you

>>47680617
>How does one 'tank' in 1pp
Depends on the definition of tank. If by 'tank' you mean 'can take damage like a motherfucker', paladins can do that in spades.

>>47680655

Hard to do that when they ignore the paladin via methods I mentioned and geek the mage.

>>47680448
I agree, 24 damage off of every swing is way too much to lose for some AC.

>>47680617

I'd really love to do the Succubus trick but I'm using the Tyrant archetype, so the best I'll get is an Erinyes sadly. I can't even get a demon spider mount either. The lawful evil monsters just seem worse, which sucks, because I was really leaning towards the Fiendish Companion route.

>>47680646
>Flat Footed AC
Includes armor and shield bonus.
>Brilliant Energy weapon
This is a joke, right?

Other than that, this guy has it right.

>>47680663
Cut/Smash from the Air and Archon Style? You'll need to be adjacent though, so maybe grab the Bonded Mind feats and get some spell strikes going.

Is it a cunt thing to do if you have an encampment, or fort, or dungeon, or what have you, go on high alert and have all the enemies present grab their arms and rush toward the PCs if they don't make any attempts to be subtle or stealthy, or hide their combat via slit throats or Silence spells?

Or say they fail on a really bad series of Stealth rolls?

>>47680646
The majority of monsters use physical attacks. Attacks target AC. Admittedly paladins have a worse kind of AC in having to use armour, but still. Anyone based off hitting flatfooted is either making no practical difference or hitting something with uncanny dodge.

True I completely forgot non-physical attacks somehow, but paladins tank those too in this specific instance.
>>47680663
Then you don't need to take damage like a motherfucker. Tanking doesn't necessarily refer to forcing enemies to hit you, but it can also refer to the ability to resist attacks.

>>47680721
The majority of monsters have at least some means of using SLAs, buffs, or save-related abilities. Physical attacks are still, by and large, the least threat to your character.

>>47680700

Yeah, that could work. I just hate it when people say 'i have big defenses and HP! that makes me the tank!' Its nothing like a tank unless you fight in single file lines down a hallway.

An actual 'tank', as per the terminology its come to be associated with in MMORPGs, is one who deals 'Hate' or 'Threat' and forces the opponent to focus on them with said abilities. They also posses a number of punishing moves, counters or debuffs to hamper and hamstring their foes from breaking past the tank's front line and clobbering their squishy DPS or healers.

Its kind of shameful that 3.PF lacks this. Even 5e is pretty bad at it..

>>47680578
>twice as fast by two handing
>adding at most 10 damage on to an attack which is already doing 35+ damage

If you aren't going to do any math then you should just stop talking. You are demonstrably wrong.

>>47680617
>How does one 'tank' in 1pp especially at a level where teleporting, invisible, flying, etc. enemies are much more plentiful? Or are you one of those crazies who thinks every battlefield and campaign composed of 10x10 hallways in a cramped dungeon?

It is less about the MMORPG "the bad guy will attack me totally guys" and more about making your opponents waste actions.

If you truly have no offense, you are a waste of space. The idea behind a paladin "tank" is to steal deal considerable damage while being incredibly hard to stop. Most spells don't affect you, you are immune to a lot of conditions, your ac is high, your hp is high, you self heal, etc.

You do this to basically win every action economy trade you take with them and then win. It's hard to protect your allies, but if you can get in melee and have following step you can do really well.


>>47680619
>3 attacks without pounce or a bow
lolno. You get one.

>>47680666
>making numbers up and pulling shit out of your ass

>>47680694
the whole post is a joke.

>often offers a save as well, or you aren't afraid of it
>3 lower than your normal AC
>condition vs. paladin, also will save probably
>deny dex lol
>paladin saves lol
>list them

>>47680486
I could dig that. He might also work as an oracle, with his curse being mushi attraction, and a homebrewed mystery.

I would love a mushi-themed TTRPG, but I don't know anyone to play it with. Everyone I know has either too good taste to watch anime, or too shit taste to watch good anime.

How effective is a Halfling Cavalier at low levels?

>>47680721

Yes but that requires them to focus on you. If you are obviously a hard target to hit, harm, or engage, then its logical they would go for the weakest links, physically speaking. Even predators tend to focus and isolate the least (physically) dangerous elements of prey animals in herds and such, and run them down.

I don't know what gentleman's agreement or honor nonsense compels a monster to intentionally attack them, unless the Paladin or tank is already in their grill from a surprise attack.

>>47680745
Monsters saves are extremely low the majority of the time. The DCs aren't relevant.

If you really need to, you could just go Shield Focus+Shield Brace and two-hand a polearm while still using a shield. You can't use the good ol' greatsword or Falchion with it, but you can use all the good reach weapons or the Nodachi, which is better than the Falchion anyhow.

>>47680750
>35+ damage
>1h
Nigger show your math or get the fuck out. You're getting weapon damage, enhancement, 1x Str, and MAYBE +1d6 or so from energy damage.

2h is getting weapon damage, +3 damage per 4 BaB, 1.5x Str, enhancements, and the usual shit.

>>47680721
And tripping, bull rushing, disarming, sundering and grappling all ignore your fucking shield.

If your DM only throw big monsters that can only attack AC, he's a VERY limited one.

>>47680750
>the whole post is a joke.
Let's not be hasty, the whole post isn't your life.

>>47680745
That's speaking as someone who doesn't play APs, I assume. Given that physical attacks are by and large the main threat. A lot of high end outsiders have SLAs true (normally with shitty DCs for the level), and some other enemies have some shitty SLAs.
>>47680790
Tripping I'll give, except most enemies don't do it. Grappling is what you get freedom of movement for (fun fact: grappling screws two-handers far, far more since they can't attack any more), bull rushing is arse, sundering is why you spend a mere 3000 gp on Impervious, or don't since the vast majority of enemies don't do it.
>If your DM only throw big monsters that can only attack AC, he's a VERY limited one.
Maybe. But that's the majority of monsters, and definitely the majority of AP encounters.

>>47680765
Its in the bullshit-crazy-damage-but-expect-dm-to-just-kill-your-dog-for-no-reason tier.

Out does the barbarian for several levels.

>>47680775
And the other party members need to defend themselves. Greater invis, mirror image, etc. People underestimate how big of a deal "i'm a fighter who needs no magical support" is in terms of saving your allies actions.

>>47680786
>what is level 12 paladin smite with 18 CHA

>>47680790
>A big boss monster just spent his entire turn on reducing my defense. He hasn't even dealt any HP damage yet.

>>47680794
>I have lost the argument and have nothing to say
>but that's fine because yer mom is a slut lol
Expected.

>>47680842
I'm not actually in the argument, you just seem like an easy target.

>3.5:
>Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics. They are not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.
>Pathfinder:
>Extraordinary abilities are non-magical. They are, however, not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.

Why do we even play this piece of shit?

>>47680750
Power attack & 1.5 strength is worth a few AC when you can just have a dancing shield.

>>47680790
>If your DM only throw big monsters that can only attack AC"
I will take "what is 2/3rds of the monster manual" for 500 gp please.

>>47680865
because fun
and nothing else is better

>>47680879
2/3rds of the bestiaries are unsuitable for being a boss.

>>47680842

That assumes they have prep time.

That also assume the DM isn't giving their opponents prep time or scouting elements to warn of their PC's approach, too.I mean its only fair if they're getting to cast their array of buff spells prior to a battle...

No it doesn't really save them any actions, especially if you throw out shit that denies saves and ignores armor/shield AC.

Or again, flying. Now you're wasting your allies' actions by having them use more buff spells on you after the battle has started...

>>47680842
>>A big boss monster

Nigger, no DM that is worth it's salt is gonna to use single, big monsters. But I think it's too much for you to actually understand encounter design.

>>47680879

>and nothing else is better

4e has been around for years m8.

>>47680865
They put that passage in a different place. It's still there.

>>47680913
I've used them before, it really depends on the creature. For example I had a Rakshasa Summoner and his Eidolon. One opponent, three initiatives.

>>47680842
>What is a level 12 paladin smite with 18 cha
Not that great, considering it's only useful against Good subtype or Good aligned things, of which there are extremely few, and even in the Evil APs, not everything is Good.

>>47680837
Except that impervious don't make your weapon indestructible, only more resistent. It's still easy as fuck to break items.

Grappling after FoM is 100% useless, I agree.

>>47680913

We just fought a single boss who did about 70+ damage in 2 attacks. All we could really do was buff the hell out of our main damage dealer and hope he could win since anyone else would die in 2 hits pretty much.

>>47680878
so then two hand your longsword? Read the rest of the thread to see the math we have done on this. That extra AC is really really good on a paladin.

>>47680904
>prep time
Not really. Everyone needs to defend themselves, but most people assume that the fighter also needs the wizard to cast fly/haste/whatever to make him not shit.

Paladin doesn't need help at all. the party sorcerer can spend his first spells on winning the fight or keeping himself safe instead of keeping the fighter relevant. Its a huge advantage.

>especially if you throw out shit that denies saves and ignores armor/shield AC.
like? Post examples. Most of the ones that exist are just shitty in general.

>>47680921
Descent 2ed is a better game than descent.

>>47680913
Is this the third time you have moved the goalposts?

>>47680939
HE IS PLAYING IN HELL'S REVENGE ADVENTURE PATH

LEARN TO READ

>>47680960
So? Action economy will fuck him up if your group isn't just about doing damage.

Does a synthesist summoner's eidolon still have skills?

>>47680963
>Paladin doesn't need help at all.

He does if he wants to hit those flying or invisible enemies lol.

>>47680765

Friend played one for a while. That guy was a railgun that walked like a corgi.

That said, cavaliers tend to get in a bit of a rut even earlier than other martials, as the temptation to simply CHAAAAAAAARGE every turn is enormous.

>>47680963
Why two hand a long sword instead of throwing out your dancing shield and two handing an actual two handed weapon?

>>47680980
>implying archer paladin isn't god-tier
>implying you can't buy see invisible

>>47680963

Ah I see, you are either a shitposter or actually retarded.

Please use a trip so I can filter you.

>>47680980

Well, at 10th level Paladins can gain a fly speed from Angelic Aspect...

>>47681013
You can filter by name, too, I'm pretty sure.

>>47680913
Follow the context anon. Someone else talked about a big monster with trip, sunder, grapple etc and anon responded to it.
>>47680901
2/3rds of the bestiaries do only attack AC though.
>>47680946
>Easy as fuck to break items
Not really. Call it a +3 Impervious heavy steel shield, that's got hardness 22 and 80 hp. That's not easy to break by any means by CR 12 creatures. When you get it up to +5 it'll have hardness 30 and 120 hp, which even for higher CRs isn't worth the time breaking. Impervious also increases your CMD against sunder.

>>47681009

If you build for it, yes. However shitposter-kun has been assuming its a big beefy melee paladin with oh so high AC so I have to run with that assumption.

If you're spending money on that .. well its taking money away from other assets.

Also again, assumptions about your opponents, their level of preparedness or item acquisitions. Of course I must be a heretic for thinking enemies would actually use the loot they keep in their dungeon.

>>47681016

This is true, but its resources spent elsewhere away from a possible, stronger build.

Is there a way to stack natural attacks together? I made a level fifteen kobold barbarian able to deal up to five natural attacks on a pounce, cause blindness, nausea, CON damage, a guaranteed crit and acid damage with certain attacks.

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Stat me.

>>47680976
no. use the summoner's skills.

>>47680975
>monsters fail every save, are never immune, and we always have the perfect spells prepared and have full resources.

I bet you don't actually play pathfinder. IF you do, I bet it is online-only games.

>>47680980
He drinks a potion of fly, or a potion of see invisibility.

seriously. They are really cheap. you will need maybe three of each total between level 5 and 15.

>>47681000
>spend 1 feat on shield
>use good longsword
>get decent damage and mega AC

>Two-hand greatsword instead of longsword for +3.5 damage on average
i mean you could but why?

>>47681009
paladin archer is "basically only one way to build and destroys all encounters" tier. Fun to design, but shitty as hell to play/DM for.

>>47681013
>gets told
>never learned how to handle being wrong
>personal insult time
Expected.

>>47680758
That's also a really awesome Idea. The curse should be the whole "can't stay at one place for too long"-thing

My current gm actually likes Mushishi too, i will pitch the idea to him.

Thanks for your help!

>>47681000
Because the dancing shield gives you AC on a character that can make effective use of AC and can still (via smite) get good damage without having to two-hand. We going in circles or what? Also (though just my opinion) having a one-handed weapon is very nice in general, since you can still two-hand it, but you're not buggered if you get grappled.
>>47681049
>This is true, but its resources spent elsewhere away from a possible, stronger build.
And freeing up time and spell slots on the caster's fronts. I really don't get how hitting flying things is relevant to the arguing of 1-handed vs 2-handed fighting though.

>>47681062

>enemy stabs you in the dick with touch attacks or save/ac ignoring abilities and spells

>or they go around you in a surprise round and rape your backline then surround you

welp

>>47681091
How does this not apply to a 2h build?

>>47681057
>iroran Paladin.
>Monk's Robes.
>26 Cha.
>24 Stre.
>8 Con.

>>47681013
It's Buildposter.

Well, rather, it's someone using Buildposter's name and shitposting under it, because as retarded as the original Buildposter was, at least he was autistic enough to back up his statements with facts and math, even if he was still mostly wrong about anything he tried to argue for. Filter it and ignore it.

>>47681098

He's talking up huge AC being the best and its just.. not.

>>47681091
>Enemy hits you with spells
Paladin, so you save and kill them
>Touch attacks
Normally spells in which case see above, otherwise LoH it back up
>Surprise round
Not a criticism of 1-handed vs 2-handed, since both get beaten in the 'lol everyone somehow dies in the surprise round but you' situation.

>>47681115
Actually it's still me.

>>47681117
No I'm not. It's good on a paladin. Maybe a warpriest or fighter or cleric.

Generally shit on everything else. Mega shit.

>>47681062
I'm (fortunally) not like you, who just theorycraft and give shitty advice, can't give a coherent response and always "m-muh goalposts".

>>47680480

The Cult of the Dawnflower is literally described as an "extreme but ultimately well-intentioned" militant sect of Sarenrae, which has multiple assassinations and destabilized nations to their name while retaining the "they a good boy" card.

The kikes would be cultists of Milani, the Goddess of Rebellion and Righteous Struggle that consider the Cult right up their alley.

>>47681142
>It's still me
If this is actually true, then you really need to get help, man. Go see a therapist or something. Your skills are slipping, and if it wasn't for the fact that you're probably the worst blight this general has ever seen, I'd probably feel legitimate concern for you.

>>47680963
Oh wow, is Hell's Revenge the newest AP? I thought Paizo was still doing Hell's Vengeance, silly me~!

Go fuck yourself BUILDPOSTER, you can't even get your facts straight anymore.

>>47681091

I was going to say Defensive Expertise, but then I remembered that's third-party.

Thank you, DSP, for spotting the glaring oversight Paizo pretends not to see.

>>47681150
>theorycraft
I'm not the one thinking that a paladin without a bow will get to full attack ever. I also take pride on the non munchkin-ness of most of my builds.

If you can point out where I make white-room assumptions please point them out.

Also:
>attacking me, not my arguments
You know it's ok to say "i was wrong". It happens to everyone. even me. especially me.

>>47680480
>>47681178
Go back to your containment board. No one wants you here or in real life probably.

>>47681189
>failure to address the arguments
So do you finally accept that sword + board is really good for a paladin? That it is better than two handing?

If not, state why or stop posting. Quit trying to make this about me.

>>47681217
>fuk urslf
>facts wrong
Which ones? Link to them?

>making this about me instead of about sword+board paladin
This keeps happening. Is it the new standard of "I've been shown to be wrong but can't accept that and must keep posting" responces?

Its better than the smug girl macro images at least.

>>47681189
Shitposter is the worst cancer indeed. Guy need to choke on a cock and die.

>>47681256
He means that it's called Hell's Vengeance, not Hell's Revenge. I don't know why he thinks it's a big deal.

>>47681259
Samefag

>>47681225
Sword and board isn't good, for anyone. It has shit feat support, it doesn't give a reasonable benefit for the tradeoff, and there's no mechanical reason to do it over a different fighting style in either 1pp or 3pp content.

You've failed to provide any actual facts to back up your argument other than citing bullshit numbers with zero source, and you've done nothing but try to go "B-but muh goalposts quit moving them, that's my job!" every time someone brings up actual holes in your arguments.

Take a month off. Relax, jack off, go molest children. Nobody cares what you do, but go do it elsewhere. When you're ready to come back and actually post information to back your ship up, then go ahead, and you can continue to get shot down when you do.

>>47681266
Actual poster that the 'samefag' was replying to, that guy isn't me.

>>47681225
You're the only one here that needs a containment board.

Would a cleric who very violently purges those who are evil regardless of laws be Chaotic Good or Lawful Neutral?

>>47681276

> in either 1pp or 3pp content.

PoW has some decent set ups you can do with it, but agreed, unless its a dancing shield allowing you to use a two-hander they're mostly worthless.

>>47681319
depends on personality/motives

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>>47681225
>So do you finally accept that sword + board is really good for a paladin? That it is better than two handing?
No, because I'm not seeing where a Paladin or an Antipaladin has the feats to make sword-and-shield worth using. The standard longsword is a 1d8 weapon, which pales in comparison to the 2d6 of a greatsword by 2.5 damage just from the weapon itself; this isn't accounting for the loss of damage from higher strength (I assume you have more than 10 Strength at least, if you're a frontline melee character), Power Attack giving lesser output due to 1h vs. 2h, and so on. We can safely assume that a Paladin or Antipaladin will, by level 12 even on a basic 15PB, have 16 Strength and a +4 Strength Belt. The longsword+shield combo MIGHT be able to keep up the damage if you have enough feats to account for Improved Shield Bash (to keep your AC higher), Two-Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, but a Paladin has better things to be spending his feats on, such as improving his Lay on Hands/Touch of Corruption and the like; it's three feats that take up slots you could have used on Power Attack, Furious Focus, and then whatever other feat you want. This has the added benefit of still having good accuracy, which Smite just can't account for (I will give you that Smite does help assuage the lesser damage output of a sword-and-shield combo, but then again Smite is just as helpful for a Greatsword as it is for a Longsword and Heavy Spiked Shield).

>>47681319
Without more info, I think in Chaotic Neutral. If you are TOO brutal about it and tramples in laws and traditions without blink an eye...

>>47681331
Crazy cultist that is obsessed with purging evil.
No twisted sense of what they consider evil, only actual horrible people who kind of deserve it would be on the purge list.

How good are eidolons are skill monkeys? Would it be terrible of me to use the Avian stats for a Biped eidolon if I want a dex-y eidolon?

>>47681338

Great Two-Weapon Fighting has that hefty Dex 19 requirement, too, don't forget that. That's a pretty huge divide between Str and Dex allocations, and you'll still want Con and Cha. So its extremely MAD on top of everything else.

>>47681350
He would break the law (i.e. kill someone in a way that wasn't self defense, kill a corrupt politician, etc.) but he'd try and do it without getting caught. He won't just walk up to Corrupt Politician #234 in the courtyard and gut him in broad daylight.

>>47681378
I see. He personally enjoys to kill the evil ones, make it for duty or "because it's the right thing to do"?

>>47681266
OH! yea. Thanks.

I honestly suspect that most of the "lol u a fag" posts are the same guy.

>>47681276
>posted no facts.

Ok: here is my argument:

>Power attacking two +sword.

18 str, +4 belt, +2 levels, 24 total
Smite for +4 to hit, +12 to damage

2d6+10+12+12 = 41
Sword and board, power attack, smite

1d8+7+8+12 = 30.5

Congrats, you have lost 10.5 damge and 1 feat in return for a +7 AC

THat +7 ac, when combined with your self healing, status immunities, saves, etc make the paladin really really good

Not good for other classes, reasons: No smite, enemy targets other (lower) defenses.

>>47681338
it costs you literally one feat. shield focus. Its not even mandatory just recommended.

ALSO TWF IS USELESS NOW AND FOREVER I WILL NEVER SUGGEST YOU USE IT WHY DO YOU THINK I WOULD RECOMEND USING IT IT'S SHIT.

>>47681408
Against Good targets specifically, nothing else, and by blowing a limited use per day ability against a single target.

>>47681391
It's his duty and the way he was raised/taught by this cult makes gives him the impression that he's doing the right thing and making the world a better place.

>>47680921
And everyone correctly stopped playing it.

>>47681421
>nitpicking
You aren't wrong.

Without the smite you depend more heavily on the .5str and the .5 power attack.

>>47681408
>Not good for other classes, reasons: No smite, enemy targets other (lower) defenses.
I'd argue it's good for cavaliers, because they can Challenge a lot more than paladins can Smite, since it works against any creature and there's no such thing as Chain Smite.

>>47681338

I'm the guy with the Antipaladin who brought this whole thing up. Currently I have:

Dread Vanguard Tyrant Antipaladin
Dhampir, Moroi-born
15 STR
14 DEX
10 CON
14 INT
7 WIS
17 CHA

Traits:
Chelish Noble
Extremely Fashionable
Umbral Unmasking drawback
Reactionary?

Feats:
Natural Charmer
Power Attack
Possibly Mask of Virtue?
Cornugon Smash
Possibly Soulless Gaze?

>>47681056
Hoping for an answer here. Might not use an amulet of natural armour for extra elemental, but at least with deliquescent gloves:
>1d6+15+2d6+1 acid for bite, with chance to nauseate due to Noxious Bite.
>2 (1d6+11)+1d6 acid for claws.
>2d6+22+1d4 Con+1d6 acid+potential blind on a charge for goring.
>1d6+7+1d6 acid for tail slap.

Is there a way to squish all of this together to overcome DR and not make my DM laugh all at for me enjoying making this.

>>47681440

For worse games, yes. But hey ignorance is bliss.

>>47681423
Let me sum it all up.

>Cleric who very violently purges those who are evil

Maybe borderline Good, or Neutral.

>regardless of laws be

Points to Chaotic or Neutral.

>Crazy cultist

Moves more to Chaotic.

>No twisted sense of what they consider evil, only actual horrible people who kind of deserve it would be on the purge list.

At least for me, move more to Neutral.

So, my final veredict is Chaotic Neutral, maybe Chaotic Good if you character still can see rendemption in some cases and is willing to sacrifice his hunt if others are in danger or in need.

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>>47681338
>>47681225
Now, if you are allowed access to Path of War, suddenly sword-and-board becomes a lot more viable as a usable option. Defensive Expertise grants your Shield Bonus to your Touch AC and your Reflex saves, which greatly enhance the weakest defenses that a Paladin usually has (since if they're not going archery, your Dexterity is a 12 at-best). Eating a feat to gain access to one maneuver can improve your damage output as well and even your utility; the ability to become incorporeal for even a single turn suddenly makes the Paladin an extremely dangerous threat to people behind cover. Alternatively you could pick from a Tortoise or Thunder maneuver to grant yourself range, more Shield AC (which again, you can now apply to Touch), and the like. You can take Pikeman's Training to use a 2h polearm (like a Nodachi) and still keep your shield AC, so the damage-pains are lessened. Finally, you could use the PoW-using Paladin archetype, which makes the use of a shield as a legitimate option worthwhile.

>>47681408
>WHY DO YOU THINK I WOULD RECOMEND USING IT
Because otherwise you're carrying around a money-sink just to keep yourself more protected against iterative attacks; AC isn't much help against multiattack-users.
>Congrats, you have lost 10.5 damge and 1 feat in return for a +7 AC
Your number is often lower than that; there are an abnormally-large amount of Evil and Neutral foes in Hell's Vengeance, so your smite still isn't as reliable as a Paladin's version.

>>47681450
where did my name go?

Anyways: WIthout smite then sword+board moves down from "literally just better" to "situationally equal to" two handing for a paladin.

Which is nice because you can always just drop your shield and put your second hand on your longsword.

>>47681463
I have honestly never looked at that class. But yes, that seems like it is true.

>>47681468
I would go for 16 14 12 8 10 14 personally. YOu are paying a lot for that +to saves.

you need hurtful if you want to make cornugon smash work. I would take shield focus early too.

Use a longsword and a heavy wooden shield.

>>47681509
>The obligatory "this build would be stronger in POW"
No shit. Every build is more powerful in POW.

We also just spent a whole lot of time talking about how -35% chance to hit you is a huge multiplier against most physical attackers. YOu can just straight up face-tank most fights till the end and win. That is a huge advantage.

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>>47681509

I can confirm that the Knight Disciple is legit. Not as many fancy builds as 1pp Paladins can do, but what it does is extremely solid. Silver Crane maneuvers can also be surprisingly damage heavy.

>>47681360
Probably CN. Depends on the methodology, though. If he has a strict code of conduct, he could be considered Lawful, and if he's careful about not killing bystanders(and not getting bystanders killed), he could even be Good. On the other hand, if he's messy and cares not about innocents dying as long as he does the victim in, or if he prefers to kill the victims in a particularly cruel way, I'd say he'd probably be Evil, or at least lean heavily on that direction.

>>47681502
see redemption in some cases and is willing to sacrifice his hunt if others are in danger or in need
I want to say that he'll probably let you off the hook for something like petty theft or something like that. It's mostly murderers or wealthy/powerful people who cause horrible things to those around them that he's after.
>is willing to sacrifice his hunt if others are in danger or in need
Would probably do that unless he's chasing evil incarnate. While his priority is to purge evil it wouldn't make sense if he didn't make any attempts to protect the innocent.

>>47681550
>YOu can just straight up face-tank most fights till the end and win. That is a huge advantage.

If they focus on the Paladin like a bunch of gibbering retards, yes, its not much of a challenge.

>>47681570
So, my guess is Chaotic Good. Because even sometimes you need to make sacrifices.

>>47681585
we have also already talked about this. THey can't just ignore the paladin because he does decent damage and his friends are harder to hurt because there is a paladin in melee with you. It makes charging or casting spells a bit more difficult.

And if you ignore him you will be dead in 4 turns to him alone so you better not.

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>>47681468
Ooof, that's a low strength for someone who's a frontliner. If you really want to use sword-and-board I would highly suggest lowering your Dexterity and Intelligence to 12 each and raise either Strength or Charisma, if you are allowed to do so. If DSP/Path of War is on the table even a little bit, I would ask your GM if you could take the Defensive Expertise feat so that your shield isn't a cash-vacuum and can instead do its job more properly. Power Attack isn't particularly helpful to you, as your accuracy is already going to be suffering, and a +2 or +3 to damage isn't much use if you miss.

>>47681550
It's not an "obligatory" post, it's cold hard facts. Even if you completely ignore the martial initiating, there are still usable feats for this kind of build; Defensive Expertise so you're not wasting money on a nonprotective shield, Pikeman Training to get a bigger damage die and make up for the loss of the almighty Greatsword, and other very useful, very important feats for the use of a shield as a martial.

>>47681550

The goal is to be the face/leader of this lowly group of Thrune agents. The CHA is not just saves, but for Touch of Corruption, face skills, and saves.

The 14 INT is also to alleviate the utter shit skills Antipaladins get. I simply can't play with so few skill points. I hate it.

Hurtful is useless until I actually get Cornugon Smash, so it'd be earliest level 9. Unless I just get it early.

>heavy wooden shield

I can't 2h the longsword then though can I? Also why wooden over steel?

>>47678746
I've got a character meant for an ERP that is a demon dancer skald with charisma at 30 and a +27 to perform (sing)

She's also THICC

>>47681550

Wait, if you're taking shield focus anyway, why not just go whole hog and shield brace with a Bardiche or something? That's one more feat and then you're two-handing while still using a heavy shield.

Although that's a lot better for antipaladins than paladins because there is no fucking way the GM is going to let you lay on hands without jumping through some hoops.

Of course, many GMs won't let you LoH while you're using a heavy shield ANYHOW, which is another reason people tend to prefer the two-handed or archery build.

>>47681621

How is the Paladin automatically in melee with them? You're already making a ton of assumptions with that alone.

You must play with really incompetent DMs.

>>47681509
>>47681567
>>47681635
This is the annoying shilling that is making everyone bitter about DSP.

We were arguing over shield mechanics and then someone, who probably works for DSP in some way, just has to poke his head in and commend on "how this is totally more powerful if you allow our overpowered 3rd party material".

We know. We get it. If you keep bringing it up every time we talk about something we are going to start to hate you.

>>47681667
>Hurtful is useless until I actually get Cornugon Smash, so it'd be earliest level 9. Unless I just get it early.
Yes. Cornugon is generally less useful than hurtful though, so you should get hurtful first.

>>heavy wooden shield
>I can't 2h the longsword then though can I? Also why wooden over steel?
Lighter. Doesn't conduct electricity, otherwise identical.

>>47681688
>how is the paladin in melee?
...He charges.

>implying this isn't obvious bait to "the enemy is invisible flying ethereal and on a different plane"
Less than 5% of the monster manual can do half of those things. A potion of fly and a potion of see invisibility are usually all you need.

>>47681756

>...He charges.

How is he going first when his Dex isn't very high and you've mentioned nothing about Improved Initiative or other initiative modifiers to ensure he has a chance at going first? Why is he fighting in a featureless white box with open charge lanes directly to his enemies that start off out of cover, within easily chargeable range?

>>47681779
because all of those are identical situations for the two-handed paladin?

I'm arguing about how they are different, and how the sword and board fighting style is superior to the big sword style for a paladin.

I have no idea what you are on about. I suspect you are trying to bait out another "lol god wizard only thing that can survive adventures" argument which honestly, has been argued to death all over the internet and is a waste of my time.

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>>47681756
>and then someone, who probably works for DSP in some way, just has to poke his head in and commend on "how this is totally more powerful if you allow our overpowered 3rd party material"

Hey, you know that thing where you complain and bitch that people are making inaccurate personal attacks against you instead of actually showing work? Guess what, I showed work and I have absolutely nothing to show for it, payment-wise. I'm telling this guy that there's options out there to make shields worthwhile. Who cares what the source is? It's not shilling if it's giving legitimate, actual advice. Believe me, if I was being paid to do this I wouldn't even SUGGEST staying as a paladin, I'd suggest something stupid like a ZweiSent OrDef Warder and just say "fuck the shield".

We know. We get it. If you keep bringing up how there's OBVIOUSLY a conspiracy/astroturfing/paid shills for DSP every time someone is giving actual help instead of bitching about personal attacks, we are going to start to hate you.
Or wait, we already do.

>>47681823
...did you just admit that you work for DSP?

>>47681823

Please stop responding to him.

>>47681756
>Le shilling meme

It's Pathfinder content. It's widely accepted and used Pathfinder content, that the vast majority of the thread likes and uses, posted in a place where the developers of said content actively reached out to for feedback and ways to improve their content.

Of fucking course people are going to post it. They like it. They use it. The developers come here to try and make it better, so that people CAN use it. They answer GM's questions, they're active among the community, and with the exception of Sslarn, they generally admit mistakes and take effort to fix them.

This isn't some "Everyone is bitter about DSP" shit, it's you and maybe 3-4 other posters from the Paizo boards that are annoyed by it, and who won't shut up about how retarded they are.

>Oh no shitposter-kun and his merry band of niggers might hate us!
Lets get something straight here. Nobody likes you. Not here, not on the site you came from, not in your family, your school, your job, or your 'friends'. Nobody cares if you hate us, because hate is all you know, because it's all you've ever been shown, and rightfully so. You'll ignore this post, just like you ignore all the others, but who knows. Maybe once it gets posted enough, you'll catch on. That little bit inside of you that knows it's true will finally grow. And it'll keep growing, until it gets the strength to make you kill yourself.

And if it doesn't? Then it still doesn't matter, because you're worthless. You're one autist pissing into an ocean of piss, and acting like it makes him important.

>>47681816

I feel like the big sword style does have a major advantage in that shields can be ruled to interfere with having a hand free to self-heal, while it's baked into the rules that you can release one hand's grip on a weapon as a free, Lay On Hands as a swift, return your grip as a free, and continue with your turn.

Also, as I mentioned above, longsword+shield is mostly for the look of the thing. If you're not gonna be bashing and TWFing, you can just take Shield Brace, use a bardiche, and have roughly equivalent defense, significantly higher offense, and reach.

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>>47681866
How do you figure that? I literally said "I have nothing to show for it, payment-wise" and "if I was being paid to do this I wouldn't say to stick with Paladin."

Listen, BUILDPOSTER, buddy. I know it's hard for you to read words on a screen, how it's so challenging and difficult to put the letters in the right order and understand their meaning instead of assuming the complete and exact opposite. Maybe you should take a break and start a hobby, like gardening. The flowers could definitely use advice on how to be proper kineticists or something.

>>47681879
And now I will do so and cease.

>>47681866
Way to misrepresent and lie.

>>47681816
>>47681816

Sword and boarder has less damage to punish with on their AoO, and is less likely to have dropped an enemy on his charge or softened them up enough to finish off if HP damage is still relevant to your party composition and builds. Likewise, if their AC and saves are so high, any DM worth their salt is going to ignore them and focus on the weaker elements. This is why 'muh huge HD/saves/AC' builds are ultimately worthless, because you're only giving a greater incentive for the soft classes in the backline get focused on EVEN MORE.