Vietnam war

>>131341717
Serious answer is this "bunch of farmers" meme has to die. It was a political nightmare akin to the debacle of todays political climate. We were held back and hamstrung worse than we were in the middle east. I could go on but those are the main points.

>>131341717

1) China would have backed up the north had we crossed the line leading to Nuclear Holocaust

2) Guerilla war's are hard to fight and we weren't brutal enough (and still aren't). Kikes don't really have a preference with Communism vs Capitalism so they didn't make sure we were brutal.

>>131341844

We still need to nuke the shit out of the middle east, Israel included.

>>131341717
look at the death count, the US was wining the war but the retarded public wanted it to stop

>>131341844
And there's the fact that despite that you completely won, the tet offensive burned out every last resource they had. Then the jews made you surrender.

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>looks at Vietnam
>looks at US
>lost

>>131341844
>"bunch of farmers" meme

is it really a meme? most of the viet cong came from an agricultural background

>>131341717
Because you can't fight for somebody else's freedom. If a group of people want freedom, they have to fight for it themselves. Same reason that the wars in th Middle East are unwinnable

>>131341717
The leftist back home really helped the communists. For example the Tet offensive was a major failure for North Vietnam and The US destroyed most of the NVA army but Jewish Communist Walter Cronkike reported it as a major Viet-Cong victory.

>>131341894
>1) China would have backed up the north had we crossed the line leading to Nuclear Holocaust

that was korea dude

>>131341717
>How did one of the most advanced western countries lose a war to a bunch of farmers equipped with ww2 rifles?
militarily speaking we didn't, we fucking smashed those charlies despite being massively outnumbered and had them pinned down to signing the Paris Peace Accords for another north-south split just like Korean (which was a arguably anti-communist success as much as what we could).

>was it the libshits/hippies fault?
yeah they got our troops to withdraw right when the vietnamese needed us most. After we left, charlies swarmed the country like we said they would rather than if we stayed a bit longer

>what happened?
commies at home cost us the war, not on the battlefield

>>131341717
Jews didnt let us win. Simple

>>131341717

Because you can't defeat a populace that doesn't give up unless you destroy all of them

Though here, the North did sign peace after the B-52 raids, it's just that they went back on their word and invaded the South when the US left. They figured the US wouldn't go back because of the hippies, and they were right.

>>131341717

1,000,000 DEAD VIETNAMESE

55,000 US CASUALTIES

A GORILLION TONS OF AGENT ORANGE DUMPED ON VIET NAM.

USA BTFO!!!

because everyone wanted to be the good guy and no one wanted to be the bad guy so we surrendered

>>131341717
libshits/hippies

why did the american soldiers have such poor fighting spirit?

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>>131341717
1.USSR aid
2.extreme incompetence and corruption of S.Vietnam

last and MOST important : enemies within

US lost not against Vietnamese farmers but against internal enemies, hippie, gay, anti war leftists, globalists, liberals.

it's american version of """Dolchstoßlegende"""

>>131343079
>that pic

why does the jew have tits

>>131341717
We were too puss'd to risk a fight with China, same as we were with Korea.
Should of marched straight to Hanoi, and ended the whole damned war. If the Chinese didn't like it, kill them too, until they gtfo of Vietnam and sign a peace treaty, or started dropping nukes.
The answer should of been "fuck you, drop 'em chink pussy outside us being in your own borders, and we Will kill you all. Communists need to die."
Instead the war just formed up into a slogfest of killing a hundred peasants the commies sent out, and losing a man per said asston of disposable zergs the Marxists were willing to front. Until eventually we'd lost tens of thousands.
We lost because oogah-boogah nukes.

>>131341717
Unrestricted media access. Television lost the war. They never made that mistake again.

>>131341717
>50k US dead
>1+ million Vietcong dead
We left Vietnam for political reasons, we didn't lose the military conflict.

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>>131342327

and Vietnam. Do you really think we could have invaded the Communist North and the Soviets and Chinese would have just let us get away with?

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>>131341717
Americant.

>>131343514
why do americans find it so difficult to come to terms with?

>>131343352

You should watch the British movie Threads if you think two nuclear powers fighting is a good idea

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>>131343617

Because it was a traumatic cucking that triggered the rest of our decline, ending with the ultimate cucking of 9-11. Every country has race traumas like it.

>>131342201
>Be Vietnam
>Be French's bitch
>Ho Chi Minh wants that to end.
>Learns how great America is and copies them
>Copies declaration of independence word for word
>Plans to draft a Constitution
>FDR hears about this, and sends American troops to kill Ho Chi Minh
>He doesn't want American people to see a REAL America with freedom
>FDR laughs as Americans are tricked into burning the constitution
>He laughs harder watching the Vietnamese genocided in their own country
>Dies laughing as America permits Jews to declare war on peasant rice farmers who wanted to copy George Washington.

>>131343617
imagine constantly winning and then losing to a minor technicality bullshit that shifted the course of history forever, worst of all ruining your perfect record. Don't you brits feel the same way about some of your cricket or rugby teams or some shit? yeah Vietnam was bullshit, we were so close and then faggots ruined it

We were winning easily.

The kill ratios were massively in our favor.

The tet offensive was a major disaster for them and huge win for us.

Unfortunately the public doesn't like dying in some 3rd world country for reasons they don't understand or care about.

It was not a military defeat. It just wasn't.

>>131342556
this

>>131341717
Not being allowed to go after the north vietnamese on their own turf doomed us to an unwinnable war, no matter how many battles we won against the VC and NVA.

>>131343617
We don't. It's only Whiny bitches who complain

>>131342588
> Vietnam wanted to be friends with US before the war
> We go kill 1,000,000 farmers, including women and children.

> John McCain POW, WAHH WAHHHH, MUH HERO

USA, USA, USA!!!

>>131344426
>we go kill 1,000,000 farmers
What? Civillian casualties in south vietnam were 195,000-313,000, and most of that was due to the north vietnamese and south koreans.

>>131343581
They didn't "just let us get away with it" in Korea. But we fought, and we did go into current North Korean territory, all the way up to the Chinese border. No nuke exchange was involved.

>>131343653
I don't think it's just the most skippy idea ever, friend, but over a half million dead or wounded Chinese communists in the Korean War, proves that direct conflict between two nuclear armed powers on third party soil =/= automatic nuclear exchange.
I stand still by the position. We should of marched on Hanoi.
We didn't nuke the chinese when they became involved in Korea, They didn't nuke us when the west became involved in Korea nor the US heavily involved in Vietnam.
In short, Winning Vietnam = ergm'gerd M.A.D. holocaust, is a spook. -.-

>>131344426
Worst part? Even after the Agent orange, mass executions, and napalm, the Vietnamese STILL wanted to ally with the US. They even declared war on Cambodia AND China to kill Communists. The entire conflict was a war for independence from ((Them)).

>>131343962
Underrated.

No wonder they hate America.

>>131341717
We weren't in total war mode, we weren't even in semi-war mode like after 9/11. The US was deep in a hippy, r-selected, weak men phase and so was in no state to fight a war. Too many resources were going to welfare, too much government was hurting the economy, rampant inflation was fucking everything up as it always does.

>>131343617
What are you talking about? There is nothing to come to terms with. From a military point of view the US military was not defeated. It was the politicians who lost.

The fact you ask this question shows you have no idea about the difficulties of modern warfare

How do you discern civilians from enemy soldiers? Are you sure that woman gathering water 20 feet away isn't a VC in disguise? How do you stop your fellow soldiers from turning insane from the paranoia and PTSD within the first week whenever a viet walks past?

How do you drop off in the middle of a populated area without VC sentries causing you to get fucked from the front, rear and sides?

When is a situation severe enough to justify dropping bombs on potential innocents?

Given that the very purpose of the Vietnam war was to stop communism, and given the solution to these issues will only worsen their opinion of capitalism (massacres), there just wasn't a point of going on.

>>131344570
Most Vietcong were farmers who had to pick up arms to fight there, Charlie.

The Jews wanted the US to lose, so they did. They've controlled the world since AT LEAST the Persian Empire

>>131345105
People don't seem to understand that since WW2 the US military fights wars mostly for profit and for testing new weapons. It's the reason why we're still in Afghanistan, for example, when we could easily wipe out the enemy and go home.
The military occupies foreign lands and leaves when it gets bored or politicians are taking too much heat by the public.

>>131345206
The US "lost" because there was no war to win. Troops had no idea who was on what side, it would be like the US sent its troops to London today and just ordered their troops to "kill d commes :DDDD"

>>131341717
Stop saying "the us LOST to vietnamese farmers lol", it makes you look dumb.

Saying that they lost implies the vietnamese were able to beat off the us troops through military might, and that couldn't be further from the truth. The US dominated the battlefield in every respect. The reason everyone says the us lost was because the North invaded the South after the US left, but then again, the south was a corrupt piece of shit that couldn't even support itself, so there's only so much babysitting the US can be bothered to do

>>131345009
VN war was one of our greatest shames. war money and politics rules america.

I'd personally say that we did not lose the Vietnam war, but the Cold War. Both sides lost in that conflict, but the USSR was able to influence our nation so much, and create so much communist sympathy and influence in the US that it caused us to by technicality lose.

>>131345453
>Stop saying "the us LOST to vietnamese farmers lol", it makes you look dumb

No, saying the US won that war makes you delusional, and they were a bunch of farmers.

The US has no influence there right now. That's not winning. Vietnam is not Japan.

>>131345453
Vietnam was able to flex its muscle on the battlefield more than the Ameriboos give them credit for. There were plenty of skirmishes that the US lost outright, google NVA or VC victories.

>>131345892
We didn't lose to farmers though, we lost to the polling booth.

because america is morally bankrupt and every single american despite being functionally a retard still knows full well that his empire is evil and stands for evil and darkness yet still supports it for mere monetary gain to his elite hoping some crumbs will fall his way
reminds me of iraq war
for months after it you'd see americans commenting online about why hasn't the price of oil dropped yet
the fucking retards thought they could just take the oil

>>131341717
This meme is retarded and you should feel bad.
Now listen to Blood Charm on Red Flag.

>>131346102
yes, and iraq isn't
also americans aren't retards, compare American IQ to Iraqi IQ and tell me what you see

>>131344055
America is the kid that sucker punches someone, runsaway before they can retaliate and then claims they won.

why pussy out if you "won"

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>>131342117

>>131341717
Vo Nguyen Giap, the general of North Vietnam was a very strong believer in Sun Tsu's The Art of War. There is a section in that book that explains if you do not have the support of your people, you will never win whatever war you are fighting. Leader of north Vietnam took this to heart, and used that against the Americans. Without the support of the people back home, the war very quickly petered out and the Americans had to admit defeat.

Pretty much ended as >>131341844 summary is pretty accurate. Politically, the Americans lost on the home front and were forced to pull out. The shooting at Kent State can be argued as one of the major turning points in this fiasco that lead to it all failing.

>>131342157
Did you read the post you stupid britbottle?
We didn't lose to the Viet Cong we lost to our own politicians and leftists
Numerically it was a fucking blowout

>>131346318
yes, a TV show about the lowest of America is representative of the whole population
retard

>>131346322
>There is a section in that book that explains if you do not have the support of your people, you will never win whatever war you are fighting.
Spot on. The simple reason why America has lost every war since is that the military no longer has the support of the people.

>>131346291
take the jews out of usa
take the kurds out of iraq
and you get same iq in both countries

>>131341717
It wasn't a bunch of farmers, it was a clusterfuck of civilians, communists government loyalists, communist government soldiers, anti-communist soldiers, foreign communist soldiers. You could not be sure of who was and enemy and who was an ally. It would be akin to being a white Christian in the middle east, you don't know who you can trust.

>>131341717
Loss of political favor

Loss in support

Weak Casis Belle

Political lefties not wanting to finish what they started with LBJ (1 of the top 3 worse US Presidents)

Unable to escalate the war and push into northern Vietnam

Unable to block shipping and support to north Vietnam

Fought with hands tied behind back

>>131346529
you got any facts to back that up
lmao, smart jews are like 0.1% of America's population

>make peace deal with nv
>pull out our troops cause its over
>they attack when we are down to saigon
>decide kek this and take a whole bunch of civies by chopper to carrier
>push planes into water to make room
>go home

Lolol you lost because we attacked you and broke the treaty and pulled your troops out

>>131341717
Vietnamization, peace with honor, and an unchecked media. The war was also unpopular and had a draft. Killing more bad guys was seen as more important than controlling more territory. I could go on but I would mostly attribute it's problems to having politicians run the show over generals.

>>131346456

Ok Ahmed, what social strata do you think most of any population resides in? low to low-mid income is in most countries the largest.

The fact is you don't see this kind of shit from plebs in other countries; over here they just get drunk and beat their wives

>>131346441
numbers don't mean shit
the viet cong died fighting a war for their motherland against invaders who inflicted every kind of misery on their people, and millions left ready to keep the fight
americans died invading and inflicting misery on the Vietnamese , and no american was willing to fight anymore
you are morally bankrupt

>>131346050
fire bombing the jungle from the air to kill 1,000,000 farmers, women and children included, because we were getting wrecked and ambushed on the ground.

yep... we sure beat the heck out of those gooks. makes me very proud. 1,000,000 kills, baby!

>>131346676
>lmao, smart jews are like 0.1% of America's population
and despite being so few they raise the national american iq by 10 points

>WW2 rifles

They were backed with Soviet equipment actually

>>131347271
meanwhile, 14% aspiring rappers
Let's do a little math here, which is going to affect the average IQ the most: the 14% of the population with an average IQ of 85, or the 0.1% with an average of 115?

>>131347449
the blacks actually also raise the average american iq
with whites having 63
blacks 85
jews over 9000
do the math i don't need to spoon feed you everything

(((They))) tricked you into fighting harmles peasants because "much gommunism is ebil!!!1!1!!"

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>>131347679
Stop sucking dick anon

>>131346558
>It wasn't a bunch of farmers
>it was a clusterfuck of civilians, communists government loyalists

civilians, government loyalists... what do you think they all did in that country? My bad, they were also fisherman. 90% of that country is made of famers and fisherman there, masterchief.

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>>131341717
Ok you public school educated tards want a redpill on Vietnam? The US did not want to "win" and never even waged an actual war in Vietnam in the first place. American advisers were sent in to assist the South Vietnamese army ( ARVN ) in their effort to repel northern forces such as the NVA and Viet Cong. The South Vietnamese army was proving to be too weak to repel the north on their own so US Marine's boots hit the ground in 1965. US troops and military hardware remained in Vietnam for the duration of the conflict, but diplomatic policy hindered American troops ability to preform to the point where they were simply not allowed to "win". US troops were forbidden to enter Laos or Cambodia, the source of nearly all arms flooding into the North. US troops were forbidden to fire unless they could confirm they were under attack by enemy forces. US troops were expected to fight a defensive war of body count instead of advancing and destroying the enemy. The US military took no meaningful efforts to cripple the Norths ability to wage war and instead spent the duration of the war dumping billions of US dollars into jungle. The US never intended to wage a real war because the consequences of actually taking the North would be worse than simply abandoning the south. If US presence could be sustained in the South like in Korea, The US could avoid creating a larger conflict with the Soviet Union and China while keeping it's influence in south east Asia. The US was never going to "win" this war because there was no victory. They desired only to sustain their presence in the south as long as possible on a gamble that the tides in the cold war would turn and they would no longer be facing a larger confrontation with the USSR of China. Vietnam was abandoned because this gamble didn't play out. In the end the war was useless.

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>>131348775
The Soviet Union collapsed and the US has more than enough influence in SE Asia today. US troops were being asked to die for a war their own government would not allow them to win, and in the end achieved nothing for the US besides sustain the military industrial complex.

>>131341717
We didn't lose. We quit. The US was adapting new technology to counter the ho chi minh trail that would of won the war.

>>131346983
>we

go back to cambodia boat nigger

>>131341844
You were hamstrung by China and Russia.

>>131342431
>massively outnumbered
Because most of the troops on the south side were South Vietnamese.

>>131341717
I don't know, how does a country that colonized half of the work lost all of them?

>>131349079
>We didn't lose. We quit.
A forfeit counts as a loss.

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>>131341717
Posting commie chink gfs

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>>131349659
Thats it.

>>131343079
>it's american version of """Dolchstoßlegende"""
Yes. In other words
>W-WE DIDN'T RILLY LOOZE, IT WAS ALL CUZZA DA JEWS! NIGGERS! COMMIES! FAGGITS! LIIIIIBBBBBRRRRRRRUUUUUUUULLZZZ
It's no wonder you're still in Afghanistan after what, almost 20 years now? Damn. I'm fucking impressed. Seventeen years and still fighting. But you won't learn from the past so of course you'll keep making the same errors over and over. Which I'm sure is somehow the liberals fault too.

>>131349473
he's the kind of cancer who abandons a dota2 match when i feed on his ass so he won't see me shitting on his base

>>131341717
>How did the greatest empire in the world fall to a bunch of goat farmers with weaponized trucks
Really shifted my neurons into overdrive.

>>131341717
The US is only good at conventional warfare. Once you go Guerilla we will lose.

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>>131341717

The US had the complete wrong approach to the whole thing. Natives are going to be natives. Machiavelli explained it in THE PRINCE, if you're not there to commit genocide then you have to make peace with the natives eventually. Vietnam wanted to be Vietnam and not another cuck US state. It is why the South folded so fast after we left.

Granted, now they're a favorite trading partner of the US, and ally against Chinese expansion and you can buy French Fries at a McDonald's on Dien Bien Phu Boulevard in Ho Chi Minh City...

So, who really "lost" here?

>there are some americans that wanted the US to win the Vietnam war

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>>131341717
>serous answers only please
one thing " SPIRIT "

>>131341717
The might of the worker wins over all. Also vietnamese chicks with sniper rifles are hot.

>>131346322
Kent State was not a big deal.

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>>131341717

weak leadership and the corrupt media.

Anybody who says otherwise is a fucking retard.

>>131349865
The soldiers and marines that died fighting a war for the military industrial complex, plus the ones that made it back to America only to be completely betrayed by both the government that sent them into a pointless war and the public who literally spat at soldiers as they were getting off the buses returning home

You Americans make me sick

>>131349865
>So, who really "lost" here?
Um... America?
You can't change the past.
>>131349777
Sounds about right.

>>131350012

VC were getting ass-pounded by BAC brah

>>131345017
But we like America

>>131341717
The goal was not to invade and conquer North Vietnam for the Vietnamese, so the resources to do that were never assigned or utilized.

When you fight with two hands behind your back, but you have your buddy randomly spraying bear mace from behind you, do you really expect to win?

>>131350167
and american leftists like vietnam. 21st largest economy by 2025 says goldman sachs anyway.

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>>131350145
Nah

>>131349865
>So, who really "lost" here?
Capitalism. Maybe the jews. Butthurt republicans, in a way.

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>>131343586
amerikike
amerimexikikes
amerimexiniggers

>>131350100

A Brit making this argument is beyond fucking hilarious.

Red Coats died for bullshit and nothing for centuries all over the globe. Their bones still lay in ditches not feet from where British tourists gallivant and drink on holiday.

All those British soldiers who died in the American War of Independence. Is that what "makes you sick" about Americans?

How about we have an "Opium War?"

Grow up.

The women had amazing pussy to slow our momentum

>>131350407

>sucks up propaganda like a thai hooker on american cock

Not the critical thinking type but that's commies for you I guess.

>>131341717
Vietnam is where the US lost the propaganda war. For some reason the public decided that even though we'd already fought and stopped communism in Korea, that it was wrong to fight against it in Vietnam. The children of those who'd done all the fighting in WWII for some reason decided that they should not ever need to fight to defend what the US had gained and our country has been weaker for it ever since.

>>131350453
Kill yourself commie. Communism was invented by the jews. The heads of the communist party in USSR had more jews than Trump's fucking cabinet.

>>131349777
I agree kurds are karitha

>>131345928
fuck your skirmishes, any ANY large battles and the VC got BTFO. and dont talk about the poor rice farmer with a rusty AK. They were a proper army packing state of the art Russian equipment, to include anti aircraft missile systems

>>131350742
they were atheists (who killed jews), not jews. jews only appropriate communism.

>>131350471
Friendly reminder that the "Boston Tea Party" was not committed over high tea taxes but rather the Americans' desire to commit piracy and reap an illegal profit for themselves even after the British removed the tax to benefit the colonies.

>>131350107

Nobody is changing the past. I'm talking about the present.

You don't seem to know what the strategic idea, or excuse, of the Vietnam War was. Domino theory and all that? You do know you can lose every battle and win a war, so can't you lose a war and win every battle that follows?

Vietnam is now an ally of the US, and like most Asian countries HATES the Chinese. I'm an American I can fly into Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi, stay at a Hilton, eat McDonalds, Get Baskin Robins, take a tour etc. etc.

Vietnam is just another country under the US Empire now. The most powerful weapon the US has is its culture. And this is going to Trigger you /pol/cucks hard but the multiculturalism is why they all buy it.

Because from the start their main objective was search and destroy. Kill count rather than strategic victories.

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>>131347679
>blacks raising IQ
>whites lowering IQ

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>>131351063

>>131341717
1. no territorial objectives to take and hold, just endless slaughter of peasants on random jungle hills which once won are immediately given up
2. way more media cover than ww2

Even though the army is btfoing the commies, back home it looks like endless war for nothing.
Normies don't understand it, communist infiltrators exploit the situation, turn the public against the war.
US gov can't fight a war without public support.

>>131350100
no one spat on GI's you fucking retard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spitting_Image
https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/03/nobody-spat-on-american-gis/

You can not win someone elses war. South Vietnam was next to worthless. The North however was motivated and willing. If a NVA was killed he become a martyr. If a US soldier was killed it was just another reason to end the war. Also there was no clear objective, the US could not push into North Vietnam because of China. We were fighting a unwinnable defensive war with no way of stopping it. We were just hoping North Vietnam would stop fighting. Our objective was to just kill as many NVA as possible.

>>131351151
you are oversimplifying, war and diplomacy have different means of achieving the same outcome.

As for being an 'ally' of the US, most of those alliances are quite fickle as you must have learned from the Afghan debacle.

American culture is supreme but you are misunderstanding what that entails; a good example would be the Romananisation of central Europe after the destruction of the WRE (proliferation of romance languages) or the numerous vestiges of Islamic culture currently present in modern societies (e.g. high heels, guitars, ice cream etc).

Failure to understand your losses is quite a dangerous thing.

The USA should have never engaged the Viet Cong. Assuming the Gulf of Tonkin really happened, the war should have been against and in the north. Massive bombing, and poison gas for the tunnels. But in the long run, best to have stayed out completely.

>>131341717
>have unreasonable war objectives that could never be obtained
>spend billions trying to reach them
>kill hundreds of thousands of gooks for muh freedom
>leave after even retards can see nothing is being accomplished

>>131343028
US army is more suited for open combat. The reason metric fucktons of Agent Orange and Napalm were dumped on the jungles is partially because they were jungles. When you are fighting an enemy in their own territory, and that territory happens to be dense jungle where an ambush or trap could be set off at any time, there is a lot to be afraid of. It is much easier to fight an enemy that you can see.

>>131350714
>Vietnam is where the US lost the propaganda war
the war went on too long. too many soldiers saw how fucked up it got -- napalming villages, woman and children on fire. too many soldiers coming back fucked up. people saw and heard the truth through them. Nothing the government/media could do to cover it up. I know people that still have flashbacks of the war, even still today.

democrate got usa involved so their weapons suppliers could get rich.. republican got us out...

>>131341717
We actually won militarily, but failed to live up to the peace treaty. US lost politically and economically (though it was actually South Vietnam who lost without US support since it wasn't our war(. We mostly just used the war for experiments in weather control and agent orange.

>>131345312
woah

>>131343962

Fuck FDR, the whitest nigger to ever live

Just like the war we are in now, it was never meant to be won. It was meant to be sustained for profits of the powerful.

why the hell did we get involved in the first place?

>>131351019
http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm

Read this

>>131345551
Emphasis on politics and money

>>131358439
Don't forget drugs, Afghanistan and Vietnam are packed full of them.

>>131341717
Fucking China you stupid cunt. Fucking puck up a text book. The same thing happened in Korea, only, this time, our "lovely" democrats reneged on the deal we made to supply/protect the southern portion of Vietnam.

>>131356318
Domino effect and opium.

>>131341717
east asians have a higher iq than us.

>>131341717
>kill a million gooks
>leave

>>131349928
>>there are some Americans that wanted the US to win the Vietnam war

American's wanted to win the war but the military industrial complex did not. Vietnam was fought with gimped rules of engagement and shitty patrol missions. This is the same type of war we fought in the 2003 Iraq war. We had less troops per capita in Iraq than we had cops in California.

The last war we fought to win was desert storm against Iraq. We had close to a million troops in country and we fought it to win fast and with minimal casualties, which we did. If we would have pushed to Baghdad then it would have been closer to Germany post ww2 with minimal insurgency. Especially if we didn't dismantle the police and military.

America can conventionally curb-stomp every country .

>>131341717
>ww2 rifles
yeah the AKM is definitely a ww2 weapon

>>131349865
You goddamn dingus, we did lose.
Vietnam was Pro America, pro liberty, and willing to fight with us from the start. They hated China and Communists so much that they killed Pol Pot the second they had independence before fighting the Chinese.
We fought a war over nothing.
The only ones who walked away winners were the Jews, who orchestrated everything.

The US has now and had then the biggest, most tech advanced military on the planet. But that doesn't mean we win every conflict. What it means is that we can utterly decimate a country's infrastructure. Without fail. Every time. We control the airspace every time. And while the US military is a massive machine that can lay waste to any country anywhere, this does not mean we can win every war.
Like Vietnam and Iraq, we are currently trying for the third time to get the disastrous COIN strategy to work in Afghanistan. It is a failed tactic and will continue to fail in every future conflict or war we find ourselves in. Until the US military realizes that the local populace will never work with us, we will bounce around from one quagmire to another, never "winning" but always floundering. Killing more of them but never reaching our objectives. Our only objective (and the one thing our military excels at) is killing so many of them that they crawl back into the ground for another couple decades.
To claim that the US lost Vietnam is like saying yeah, the rapist moved in, killed my entire family except for my wife which he raped every day for years. But you know what! She never loved him! Checkmate US!
But we can take the blame as well....
We fucked your wife everyday believing that she might one day love us.

>>131341717
The US didn't lose. Compare casualties

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

What the fuck did you Burgers think you were going to win?

What the fuck were you fighting for?

>>131361694
You tell us merchant.

Ho Chi Minh lived in the US for a couple of years and wanted Truman's support in independence from France.
CIA bribed South Vietnamese to kill Catholic South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem.
Gulf of Tonkin false flag. Went to war over zero US casualties.
Nixon sabotages peace talks to cut better deal for South Vietnam when he gets elected president.
Nixon cuts deal with China a few months before pulling out of Vietnam.
Nixon resigns and thus his peace is de-legitimized.
North attacks South and Ford refuses to re-enter war in Vietnam.
Khmer Rouge continues attacks in Vietnam, so Vietnam invades Cambodia and overthrows Pol Pot who committed genocide against millions of his own people.
Fucking China invades Vietnam at the same time so the Vietnamese has to fight on two fronts.

How can you fucking say the war was about Communism when the US didn't give a fuck about Cambodia who was allies with China and China invaded Vietnam. Vietnam wanted to be like the US and not a colony and the world snubbed them because they didn't want to be puppets. Vietnam's only true allies was Russia who mainly supplied arms.

>>131361800
It was your war! You should know. How the fuck should I know what you were fighting for.

>>131361952
Don't forget, Ho Chi Minh fought in WWII with America. He saved crashed US pilots, went toe to toe with the Japanese, and even welcomed American pilots with a banner that said "Welcome American friends!". For all his help, FDR backstabbed him and helped the French try to seize control of Vietnam once more.

>>131341717
>AKM
>WW2
>>>/k/

Agree with a lot of the "hands tied behind back/Cold War conditions caused a (potentially avoidable) absurdist limited war... but have another theory below called the Safety Valve Theory. But first:
1. There are some off the bat tactical and "framing" measures like maintaining and up-arming the Cao Dai and Hoa Hao religious militias in the South (who had real ties to villages etc.) as well as the Binh Xuyen mafia army in urban areas to spearhead VC counterinsurgency.
2. Instead of backing Ngo Dinh Diem and the Catholic minority (and if religion didn't have to do with it, the fact that this particular family were sociopaths didn't help) bc they were a "known quantity," should have shaped the war as a Buddhist-centric "crusade" to protect traditional VN values. This was half-tried at times but because of the Buddhist self-immolation incidents and general co-option by NV/VC in response to Diemist persecution, the VC could pretend through "national front" rhetoric to be defending the majority religion etc.
3. Nguyen Cao Ky, the eventual #2 in the South during the Thieu junta, always asked the US for permission to invade the North so his troops could get that edge and momentum etc. No one likes driving around in circles until their ambush number comes up, and it's a testament to US milit. discipline that US forces had total freedom of movement, usually came out ahead per contact- but did not have choice of engagement..
The reason the US couldn't invade the North (imagine if VN War was conducted using the same approach as WW2!) not because of Chinese but because of Soviet nuclear threat. One of the aims of the "opening with China" to triangulate the Cold War was because North VN hated the Chinese and while they got plenty of materiel and even soldiers from them, if the US command told the North "we'll invade as far north as we have to until the Chinese come in and eat up your country forever" it would have been a different negotiating dynamic. Cont'd.

continued: proof of US-China coordination vs. Soviet-backed VN (recall Sino-Soviet split) is in Cambodia: after VN forces ousted the KR, US-China-Thailand backed a KR 2.0 insurgency til the late '90's...
But the real reason I think that the Vn war was fought as it was, whether consciously or not- this is just thought experiment- and it should not have cost SO MANY LIVES!- was that US "quagmire in VN" was the safety valve that relieved the pressure of just how shittily the Soviet sphere was doing compared to NATO/Western nations.
Now, obviously the "home front" in the US plays a big role (as others said, afterTet the VC were kaput, but MSM declared it a sign of war unwinnable...). The thing is, dropping acid makes Bismarckian "iron and blood" realpolitik seem ridiculous, but then that impulse gets translated into radical politics that are just the hormonal opportunism of all the young people who didn't have to go and fight. Who knows I may have a diff set of opinions tmrow...

>>131341717
Watergate.
That's it that's all.

The NV went to peace talks and before they concluded the US had a new president that didn't want to win the war and didn't want to meet the material obligations (supplying weapons) to SV.

It's super convoluted

>>131341717

Here's your serious answer:

It's really hard to win a war by invading and occupying a foreign land, especially when the native defenders use guerilla tactics.

What we should have done in Vietnam, and even in Iraq and Afghanistan, is bomb every city to rubble and burn every square mile of land, and then immediately left. Repeat if necessary.

>>131341717
I wanna enter her underbrush.

>>131341717
>USA
>lost Vietnam war
Is this sarcasm or retardation?

>>131345114
>Muh PTSD

Are anglos really this retarded?

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>>131341717
WE BINNED OUR KNIVES TO SAVE THEIR LIVES!!!

>>131341717
Rough rundown without particular dates:
>Americans get in after falseflag staged by LBJ(and mind you LBJ got elected because he said he won't engage in Vietnam crisis)
>whack NVA for few years
>VC stages huge uprising that gets quickly put down, but US media, often collaborating with communists try to make it look like it's hell(showing burning building in Saigon and saying this is how whole Saigon looks like now etc.)
>also - they lie repeatedly about the way American bombing campaign goes(see "last hospital in Aleppo" news coverage it worked in the same way in Vietnam), you can read more about it on the internet but I'll sum it up like this - had there been some harsher president in those days and majority of journalists would hang for treason
>Americans for the most of the time have very strict ROE and I'll elaborate on this because it's important. Fist of all they weren't allowed to cross certain parallel, which for most of the war meant that they couldn't take any ground from NV. They weren't allowed to wreck VC/NVA once those crossed border to Cambodia or Laos(which Vietnamese exploited whole the time). Navy wasn't allowed to mine NV harbors(to stop Soviet/Chinese supplies from coming). Airforce couldn't bomb Ho Chi Minh(because politicians were afraid that Soviet or Chinese intervention if their advisers get killed). We can go like this all day.
>finally in about 1974 some of those ROE's were dropped, by the time Americans finished mining NV harbors, HCM bent the knee and started negotiating peace treaty for serious(the entire war could've been over decade earlier if they mined those harbors back then)
>US promises South Vietnam that they'll send them equipment, continue helping them with training etc.
>Carter gets elected
>stops helping SV
>NV invades, Carter does shit
>NV conquers SV, liberals start talking about how powerful communism is since it allowed rice farmers to defeat #1 superpower, communism proves its power by collapsing decade later

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>>131346441
>>131347148

>US lost in Iraq's guerilla fighting
>US lost to Iraq on /pol/

>>131342557
>Because you can't defeat a populace that doesn't give up unless you destroy all of them
people thought the japanese would never give up
turns out you just need to curb stomp a city or two and people will start opening up to negotiation

>>131341717
We didn't lose. The shirt I wore today said "Made in Vietnam" on the label inside it. Capitalist country now, Vietnam is. Sorry, my dentally challenged friend. Looks like we won.

https://youtu.be/7hqYGHZCJwk

https://youtu.be/EunyfX-Zjo4

>>131341717
Vo Nguyen Giap happened. Literally everyone who tried to punk Vietnam during his time got pants'd in the schoolyard.

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>>131341717
We actually lost to our selves instead of losing to North Vietnam.

>>131370072
You shouldn't have stepped in in the first place. Why did you even help the French? We could have been friends. The way I see it, Vietnam war is less about communism but more about patriotism and independence. We just didn't want another foreign puppet regime.

Reminder that Ho Chi Minh literally took phrases from American Declaration of Independence into ours. We admired American value but you forced us to fight.

>>131347148
Learn to read, it was a political defeat, our own government made the military pull out at the arrival of the tet offensive. Had the US had both parties fighting the war with vigor, it would have been a lasting victory. This is why our president has (or had rather) the power of a dictator in wartime. So that the military couldn't be pressured into surrender from within.

>>131341717
the same way the most advanced country in 1776 lost to a bunch of farmers

>>131343261

Jews were already pushing transgenderism back then. Jewish doctors even did transgender surgeries but patients tended to end up dead back then (probably better for them, actually).

if you think the point was to install a democratic government then we lost. chomsky is right on one point we don't give a shit about democracy only destabilization, and we did fuck them up enough that they had no influence on their neighbors for 2 generations.

>>131372144
Post pic with time stamp, I doubt your from Vietnam, that or your a foreigner.

>>131341844
it's funny because it happened to us quite a few time too but it didn't stopped the americans to laugh at us and create the surrender meme

>>131372530
Im sorry about him, we haven't cleansed the retards yet.

>>131341717
Judging by the mere excuses of American in this thread, you'll never find the true answers why they lost the war. America was literally built by immigrants who gave up their own heritage many years ago, which is stupid because history, cultural value, motherland, language are what it needs to bond people from the same nation. I double dare any American who are willing to die for America in your meaningless wars around the world right now.

US didn't use nukes.

/thread

>>131341844
>>131342048

>>131374083

>>131341844
Because of the (((media))) coverage of the Vietnam War, politicians hamstrung the military like American football. They kept adding more restrictions and changing the rules of engagement. That's where the meme that Kissinger was a war criminal came from. In order to help the troops, he allowed bombings in Cambodia. The VC fought a real war but the politicians wanted to keep it strictly inside Vietnam. The US military did a wonderful job adapting to the restrictions imposed upon them. And when the (((media))) showed images of all the horrible things happening to the Vietnamese, liberals went nuts and forced the politicians to add more restrictions until it was no longer a real fight

>>131341717

Because it was a Jewish war to take over another third world country and the troops knew it. Watch the old footage of the interviews, none of them wanted to be there. The vietnamese didnt want them there either, to the vietnamese they looked no better than the French who they had just fought a war to oust. The South Vietnamese government had no support, it was widely recognized as a foreign puppet

Ho Chi Mhin on the other hand had successfully led the nationalist war to defeat the French. This is what allot of people dont get about the vientnamese war, it was only nominally about communism vs capitalism, it was really just a nationalist war against colonialism. The top communists had only recently moved to communism, they had already established a reputation for themselves as national heros defeating the French.

So a mixture of things really, US soliders knew when they got there that they wernt even wanted in the south. Then another big thing is the terrain, allot of the superior technology of western armies doesnt mean shit in one giant jungle. The airforce and navy couldnt operate as they would elsewhere. US soliders also wernt used to Jungle warfare.

The commies also had an excellent propaganda war strategy and support networks left from the indo-veitnamese war. Their intelligence networks where world class.They had support among the pesants by promising land reform. Also funded, armed and trained by USSR (not China). But mainly it was the anti-colonial nationalism....The US where a foreign army and people dont like being occupied..Ironically the communists where better able to seize on the nationalist fire than anyone else

Honestly the question of communism was secondary

Here's a red pill on the cause of war:

Synthetic rubber.

The economy of French Indo-China had no chance to recover after the war with the rubber plantations largely worthless. It led to unrest.