/classical/

>>71590378
One day I will unironically spit on Boulez' grave.

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Could someone identify this piece based on this snippet from my memory?

https://clyp.it/qli2nitc


Thank you edition

>>71587383
>i will admit it sounds lovely but chopin doesn't care about boggy formalism and we all know that's what matters not the music XD

How much of a fucking bogbilly can you be?

>>71590465
So now bogbilly stands for anything that came before Romanticism?

>>71590297

What is /classical/ opinion on contemporary music? I haven't seen, so far, no one defending it in any specific istance.

>>71590542

It stands for caring about what the music is instead of how the music sounds.

>>71590465

Formal systems are important to any creative endeavor as they provide the finished product a logically rigorous schedule to be checked against. I think a great composer ought to be able to convincingly modulate between keys, develop motifs in structurally sound ways, have good voice leading and so forth. The ability of Debussy or Chopin to write pretty music does not necessarily qualify them as great composers. When your music cant be played without sustain or weighted keys then the notes themselves aren't holding up too well.

>>71590588
What about caring about both?
To write a emotional piece is easy, and so it is easy to write a sterile complex piece.

The best music is both highly emotional and masterfully crafted.

>>71590586
people that don't get contemporary music just have too much of a boner for melody

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a girl sends you this on fb
what do you do?

>>71590615

no

>>71590762
You've chaged my mind, anon.

>>71590762
Post the best pieces of music you know of.

>>71590609
>a logically rigorous schedule to be checked against

Literal mental cuckoldry. Academia is your bull, bogbilly. You've never heard music.

>>71590797
Please post real music.

>>71590805
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6EftQIknGs

>>71590767
>>71590805

I want you to say "my bull requests that you post...".

>>71590609
>When your music cant be played without sustain or weighted keys then the notes themselves aren't holding up too well.

Yeah, Chopin and Debussy used some pretty bad notes. They're notes are nowhere near as good as Mozart's notes.

>>71590819
Oh it was a troll all along. You should have said so

>>71590833
Yes that's correct

>>71590860
What are some really good notes???

>>71590860
>NMH are bad
You got meme'd by the accademia.
Explain why you think NMH music is bad.

>>71590819
>>71590882

This isn't me by the way.

>>71590831

I'm still waiting for this.

But by all means, carry on.

>>71590899
Stop impersonating me.
These are my posts: >>71590797, >>71590819, >>71590882

I only listen to scales, technical excercise, and arpeggios. "Music" is for plebs

>>71590882
I'm not saying its bad but its certainly a meme so it strains credulity that you are posting a meme in earnest. Especially when you are trying to compare it to the most tremendous works of classical music

>>71590917
>tfw online seinfeld

>>71590932
You asked me to post real music, I did it.
That said, saying that NMH are ''worse'' than the greatest classical composer is ignorant af. They're doing different things, and they should not be compared. NMH are as good as Bach.

>>71590951
you are wrong, particularly because I said so

>>71590957
See? You have no argument to back your opinion!
And I'm pretty sure that no one else on /classical/ does.

The musical staff is probably the worst visual representation of language ever

>>71590969
I don't need an argument I'm the motherfucking king

>>71591000
>tfw your suspicion of bogbillies being autistic 13 year olds who "like" bog in the same way they "like" metal is finally confirmed

>>71590991
No it's not. You're a moron

>>71591032
>same tone isn't even consistently on a line or a space from octave to octave
>linear nature of the system generates contrivances like double sharps and flats
>it would be a lot easier if each note just had a symbol
>if you want to write anything sufficiently modal you'll still be working around the major scale and your score will be littered with accidentals

>>71591074
>>71590609
>Formal systems are important to any representative endeavor as they provide the finished product a logically rigorous schedule to be checked against. XDXDXDDDDDDDD

Plenty of languages would be easier to read but as good sirs bound by tradition we all know that's not what matters.

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Kubelik is so underrated. This is the best Dvorak 7 (not his more famous DG one)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVTje1IfFu8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwnfauR87E4

Listen to Rameau.

>>71590819
Sounds a lot like that time I rubbed my prolapsed anus on my guitar

>>71591219

What key was THAT fugue in?

>>71590882
>Explain why you think NMH music is bad.
Jeff mangum can't sing to save his life. Nuff said.
I found their chord progressions boring and their production of low quality. Even if its supposed to be "lo fi" its still poorly done.

>>71591242
Hmm? What fugue? I said my prolapsed anus produced >>71590819

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what do we think about this book

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>>71591176
Only if you listen to Honegger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIQyDwlX7o

>>71590394
Finally a performance with Boulez that I can applaud.

>>71590588
What music is and how music sounds is one and the same thing you doofus. Chopin is a pleb's composer. He wrote pretty tunes with no elaboration.

>>71591539
>bogbillies think music should be about how much counterpoint a piece has

Classical music is nice and all for a lot of non-musical reasons but it is objectively boring.

>>71591586
Then why are you here?

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>>71591568
Good music can keep you engaged for more than 10 seconds. Listen to 10 seconds of a Chopin piece and you've heard it all, since the elaboration is mind numbingly simple and predictable. It sounds too same-y. If all you care about is how much of an ear worm the main motif is, you might very well enjoy listening to it on repeat for ever and ever, but those of us with IQs 2 or 3 standard deviations above average listening to a 3 bar nunnery phrase on repeat is simply not that interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOEbPrjuKXA

>>71591706
for* those of us

>>71591586
All popular music is objectively boring

Classical music is the only interesting music on a high level

>>71591819

What about Steven Wilson?

:^)

Why is there no properly good English composer after Purcell? What the hell is wrong with Englishmen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icg52hDM9Wo

>>71591973
Elgar

>>71591706

Elaboration in music is irrelevant at best.

>>71591994
>le Meme Variations
How about no?

>>71592003
If you have the auditory capacity of a deaf-mute, sure.

>>71591706
Thanks for reminding me that I need to listen to more Bach cantatas. Do you have any favourites?

>>71591973

This why WW1 and WW2 happened, Britain was butthurt because all the good music came from Germany.

Prove me wrong.

>>71592031

A non-sequitur almost as awkward as a Bog inversion.

>>71592031
>only a deaf-mute would be indifferent to correctly identifying inane compositional device nr. 345 as opposed to inane compositional device nr. 134 in an ocean of pitch porridge and to the subsequent euphoria of having an otherwise qualitatively pointless training justified

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>>71592071
>>71592113
> identifying inane compositional device nr. 345 as opposed to inane compositional device nr. 134

Stop posting already. We already know you're massively butthurt about people who are more articulate than you, bogboy. I'll let you in on a secret -- Bach wrote beautiful music, music that's an absolute delight to listen to. The technical analysis of it is a post-facto game. I don't go in on a Bach piece starting with the score. No, I first listen to it, and it sounds great. So then I wonder -- "man, what is it about this music? Why does it sound so good? How does it all come together." And only then I might go and take a glance over the score in detail, or listen to it in a more synthetic, analytical mood, with an ear out for the nifty details.

>>71592223

Backpedal any harder and you might start vouching for expressionism over formalism. Careful now, don't make your bull mad.

>>71592069
>Prove me wrong.
ww1: germany giving austria the blank check to "do whatever you want" with regards to serbia.
ww2: germany and japan being expansionist, china being nationalist enough to start the full blown second sino-japanese war by attacking that japanese golf club in shanghai, 1937.

>>71592266

You remind me of that pretensious fucko in music class with shit taste that thought he knew everything that everyone despised.

t. an outsider to this mess

>>71592223
Same with Chopin. I listen to his work and it puts me to sleep. So I wonder what the hell is the problem. And lo and behold, the guy's music turns out to be written in the most haphazard, simplistic manner, with the same level of complexity as Mozart's early works (you know, the ones he wrote when he wasn't even 10 year old) except a lot slower, with random, noisy cadenzas splurged in here and there.

I'm sorry you have the musical sophistication of a imbecile, but you might feel comforted by the fact that 90% of music listeners are no better than you. Plebs gonna pleb.

>>71592284
>an outsider to this mess
Clearly, you're responding to the wrong person of the two..

>>71592284

A comment as relevant to this argument as an incontinent spurt of 16th notes to a Bog fugue. Except this argument is substantial, at least on my part, unlike a Bog fugue.

how do I get into classical
like it just sounds boring to me

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>>71592270

Then what is this quote from Churchill all about?

>>71592333
this

>>71592266
I'm not backpedalling an inch. I'm merely extricating what it is that confuses you in terms a
>muh emotions
pleb like you can more easily understand. The roboticism you project on Bach is your onus entirely.

>>71592306

Both comments were pretentious (spoiler: all the posts in these threads are pretentious) but the whole "expressionism over formalism" thing was unforgiveable.

>>71592346

What are you extricating it from? Also, my hatred of Bog is voluntary and does me no harm.

Are you copy pasting shit from the thesaurus now that you have no argument?

>>71590609
>The ability of Debussy or Chopin to write pretty music does not necessarily qualify them as great composers
reminder that Dubusy was a top tier composer who excelled in every musical discipline. Perhaps second only to Bach, speaking of his knowledge of theory.

>>71592368
Yeah, but as I understood it that guy was the one coming less from a theory dick sucking perspective

>>71592333
im serious what am I missing

>>71592375

Nothing. It's boring.

>>71592375
Maybe relevant to the argument that's going on- I think, regardless of your knowledge of theory, classical music often takes some focus and "deliberate" listening, whatever that is to you. It appeals to the emotions, but a lot of it is also trying to follow its arc, find the narrative, understand what's actually going on musically so you can better follow it, etc. It can be challenging, and that can be fun.

To that end, theory does make you "better at it" in a way. But your appreciation only comes down to how much you appreciate it, which is your own business.

>>71592398
>But your appreciation only comes down to how much you appreciate it,

hahahahahahaha

>>71592406
You literally think laughter is a substantial argument against x=x?

>>71592419

Get the fuck out. Your can't even speak, let alone think, or know what music.

>>71592422
Another response that's hostile but obviously wrong and lacking content. You're only making me more certain about my views :^)

>>71592370
>What are you extricating it from?
Your posting career. You consistently imply, and even repeatedly outright make the claim that people only like Bach because they can identify various compositional techniques in his works. It's easy to connect the dots -- that's your itch. You can't stand the fact that other listeners are more observing and articulate than you. You would like all music discourse to be on the level of
>this part feels good
>this melody makes me sad
>this piece is so cheerful
etc

You have a simple mind, so you can only enjoy simple music. Too bad.

>>71592428

Uh...yeah that's my whole point, mongoloid.

>connect the dots

Good work, detective. After taking an hour to discover the obvious, your only retort is "too bad"?

>>71592375
seems you didn't listen to all the cool stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCEDfZgDPS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nVmFlSV1ok

>>71592454
>that's my whole point
You still don't get it, do you, bogbrain? Your whole "point" is nothing but a caricature. You have no point. I don't make "calculations" to determine whether I like a Bach piece or not (or a piece by any composer for that matter).

Your shitty forced meme is you calling the grapes you can't reach sour. A stupid rationalisation. Nothing more.

>>71592483

The grapes of sunken cost - the food of the gods.

Also, you're actually arguing in favor of expressionism over formalism now.

>>71592483
>>71592501
>formalists would contend that the meaning of music lies in the perception and understanding of the musical relationships set forth in the work of art and that meaning in music is primarily intellectual, while the expressionist would argue that these same relationships are in some sense capable of exciting feelings and emotions in the listener"

How does it feel that I made you take off your argument, turn it inside-out, put it back on, and you didn't even notice?

>>71592554
God, both of your arguments are so convoluted and petty that I only can assume >>71592501 posted this based on its presentation of it

>>71590378
[spoiler]interesting[/spoiler]

>>71592483
>>71592554

BOGBILLIES RIGHT NOW:

http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=yTU8WbTbZMI&video_start=42&audio=Ezg68znooJ8&audio_start=2

Petzold

>>71592554
Nope and nope. I'm neither a formalist nor a an expressionist in the sense espoused by your quotation. What the hell does the "meaning of music" even mean in that context anyway? Reads like evocative gibberish.

I am a 'formalist' in the sense that good music is beautiful music, and beautiful music is finely and intricately structured, because music is itself an ordered arrangement of sounds, as opposed to noise. Sound is music to the degree that it is functionally structured. The existence of programmatic content is irrelevant -- music doesn't have to "mean" anything.

Beautiful music is beautiful regardless of how and who listens to it. But some have an eye for the fuller beauty of music, while other are more limited, just as some people are colourblind. A fault in your perception is not a fault in the music you're listening to. Some people have better ears than others.

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>>71592677
lmao

>>71592748

Your posts are starting to resemble word salad, bogbilly. Take your time to cool off after those meltdowns for your own sake.

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Stop arguing.

It`s funny how classical threads resemble classical music. While classical music has a "fixed" repertoire of, well, classics, this thread has a somewhat fixed repertoire of the same old discussions done again and again

>>71592799
stop trying to write pseudo-classical compositions and learn harmony

>>71592822

Yes!

>>71592822
blame mu, not classical general

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>>71592839

I do boardgames and vlogs now.

>>71592774
It's quit clear: what music is and what it's perceived like are two separate phenomena. But yes, you're retarded. It takes a retard not to notice that your whole paradigm is self-defeating. If everything is about
>muh feels
why engage with anyone. Relativism is the ultimate retreat of imbeciles and fools. The oldest sophist trick in the books.

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>>71591106
Kubelik recorded the GOAT Mahler 8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hOnOHmhNkQ

>>71592887

My God. First reversing his own argument without even noticing now accusing me of relativism, of all things. Full-blown delirium. I'm only egging you on out of morbid curiosity.

>boganon at it again
literally 0 (ZERO) sexual partners, he's just upset Bach had so many children

>>71592887
>>71592774
In other words, I enjoy Bach because I can perceive the beauty in his work. Because 'enjoyment' is a state of mind that is dependent on perception. You cannot enjoy what you cannot perceive. You cant enjoy watching a painting in a pitch black room, because you can't see shit.

What is conducive to 'enjoyment' is not the ability to identify a certain technique in analysis, but the ability to perceive the end result as it is being played. By way of analogy, if given the spectral analysis of a radiating body, you can identify whether or not that body is emitting ultraviolet light. That doesn't mean you can perceive ultraviolet light. Say, hypothetically, if some ultra-intelligent bee painted an image which incorporates elements visible in the ultraviolet spectrum only, then you as a man who cannot perceive those wavelengths would perceive less of the beauty inherent in that picture.

Your error is to assume that if you can't perceive the structure in Bach's compositions, then no one can and they're only wanking after analysing the score. Your flawed pegging of the discussion in a stupid "formalist vs. expressionist" paradigm is downstream of that.

>>71592933
For you
>>71592984
I did not reverse anything. You're a perennially confused idiot.

>>71592984
>>71592988

I wonder if this thread will be instrumental in your eventual letter bomb trial.

The only people who wank off to Bach's scores are Bachtists, doesn't mean that Bach isn't a great composer.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxfaxt_6UEU

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vms3LvONyWM

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Hey, is this the right place for people who like classical music?

Kinda funny how whenever someone gets the patience to actually respond to bogfags's "quality" posts, they absolutely BTFO him with ease whilst he backpedals into nervous laughter, ad hom, and general non-arguments

A greater clown without jest than poly could ocer hope to be, to be sure. I do applaud the person arguing with him, though, I would do the same, but I do not contain the capacity to argue with a petulent child, who, rather uncreatively, has been spamming the same shitty memes for around a year now. I can only assume he's underage b& or a manchild that doesn't work, especially considering the amount of time he spends endlessly replying to himself (or his other personalities, perhaps) with the same usual trite.

>>71593062

A quick summary of the argument(s) I lost?

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>>71593062
I'm actually sitting here laughing and watching him explode as this argument unfolds
How much longer until we get another tantrum like this? kek

>>71593072

Your life.

>>71593062
Personally I don't think it's worth replying to him at all
Thankfully he's fairly easy to ignore--and filter. It helps when he posts the same shit and images ad naseum

>>71593076

Still no idea who or what that is and how it relates to anything I've said in this thread or the last one you posted it in...

>>71593072
see
>>71590762

>>71593086
see
>>71590465

>>71593115

How did I lose it? The other guy spazzed out and started typing Gravity's Rainbow II.

>>71593124
>spazzed out
Projecting again, I see.

>>71593013
Epic. :^)

>>71593126
zzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzZZZ

anyone know any good Mussorgsky pieces

>>71593133
Poor dear. Did you slam your head on the keyboard again?

>>71593135
Songs and Dances of Death

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>chopin can't develop themes for shit

Yes he can, stop listening to his waltzes. Go look at his op. 49 fantasy, or his B minor sonata, or the 4th ballade or something

>>71593062
>>71593076
>>71593084

#bogblasted

>>71593135
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHFlQsKlTRY

>>71592677

And the classic to top it off:

http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=_Ka289l3W0Q&video_start=0&audio=k-Tw1sqzkfk&audio_start=6

are any of the early liszt piano pieces worth paying attention to? Other than the transcentendal/paganini/concert etudes, which are useful as technical studies

>>71593312
Liszt's piano concerto is a neat enough time waster.

>>71593312
Dante sonta
totentanz
bénédiction

>>71593312

None, they are all trash, so much in fact that Liszt and virtually every other composer of relevance in those years despised them.

Stick with his later orchestral works.

>>71593312
Why are you posting if you haven't heard Hungarian Rhapsodies, dog?

>>71593339
>bogtentanz

>>71593339
>Be Liszt
>Write a sonata inspired on Dante's works
>sounds like every other romantic sonata ever

>Be Liszt again
>write piano pieces on Petrarch's sonnets
>sounds like every other short romantic piano piece ever

God, Liszt was the worst, he truly had no talent for program music.

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>>71593438

>>71593443
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnkVjsvdyoM

This is the sonnet:
I fynde no peace and all my warre is done,
I feare and hope, I bourne and freese lyke yse;
I flye above the wynde, yet cannot ryse;
And nought I have, yet all the worlde I season,
That looseth, nor lacketh, holdes me in pryson,
And holdes me not, yet can I escape no wyse.
Nor lets me leeve, nor die at my devyce,
And yet of death it giveth none occasion.
Without eye I see, and without tongue I playne;
I desyre to perishe, yet aske I health;
I love another, and yet I hate my self;
I feede in sorrow and laughe in all my payne,
Lykewyse pleaseth me both death and lyf,
And my delight is cawser of my greif.

>tfw Liszt thought about this music while reading Petrarch
>tfw Liszt was that fucking stupid

He truly was a trained monkey.

>>71593039
No this is the place for people who like discussing why they think classical music is stupid.

>>71593438
>>71593490

It's good that people are starting to attack the 4 honorary bogbillies (Liszt, Berlioz, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky) and realize their music is bad. Who knows, it might be a vital stepping stone to leaving the bog.

>>71593490
You shouldn't expect quality music from rock stars. Same with Paganini

>>71592037
Please respond.

>>71593626
Still better than Chopin.

>>71593698
Please don't antagonise him.

>>71592037
Here's a couple --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIf-2mCKLqI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzQyzqiwn8

>>71593741
For
>>71593668

The bogtard sperg sidetracked me so I forgot about you man.

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This thread could've been nice. It could've been productive, it had potential.

But you elected the way... of pain.

>>71593807
>Heated discussions with Boganon.
>People sharing music.
>Still thinks the thread is shit.
/mu/s real problem is that they're not happy with any level of music discussion.

>>71593807

It has been supremely productive. Bogbillies unknowingly reversed their argument, claimed they had none to begin with, then claimed this means they're right, before exploding in a rococo turn of the century tirade about nothing, and finally...something about relativism.

PLUS I created another masterpiece:

http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=yTU8WbTbZMI&video_start=42&audio=Ezg68znooJ8&audio_start=2

You're welcome.

>>71593879
So when are you getting a trip? You already go out of your way to attentionwhore as much as possible, might as well get the formality out of the way and adopt a trip.

>>71593904

The only one you can filter to escape bogposting is yourself.

>>71590868
1245,3Hz is a fuckin lovely note

>>71593917
Why do you say "bogposting"? That would imply that there are people other than you posting that shitty meme

>>71590868
D
F#

>>71593927
>That would imply that there are people other than you posting that shitty meme
Of course there are! He has numerous personalities, after all.

>>71590868
I've always been quite partial to B flat. Maybe because I like so many works written in D minor. I listened to a lot of Tool in middle-school, before I got into classical music, with Bruckner's symphonies.

>>71593936

Very good list. I would like to add E and G natural.

D > A > C# > F# > D# > F > Bb > C > B > G > G# > E

>>71593917
Uh, it has nothing to do with filtering. That would imply that I'm bothered by you. If I wanted to filter you I would just add the grand total of 5 buzzwords that you constantly spew to my list, and voila.

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Who is the Jeb! of classical music?

>>71593998
WF Bach

>>71593998
Chopin

>>71593989
kys

>>71593989

B > O > G

Hindemith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4JRK8CS-PI

>>71594020
ok, post yours

>>71593998
Gluck for Baroque.
Rameau for Classical.
Chopin for Romantic.
Prokofiev for Modern.
Everyone for Contemporary.

>>71593936
>>71593968
>>71593989

Equal temperament a shit.
A SHIT!

Man who was that Greek composer that did a few nocturnes? They were kinda Chopincore and one them started with a really dank interval when the right hand came in.

Années de pelerinage is pretty alright if you ask me

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1. ur fave b8hoven piano sonata
2. ur fave b8hoven symphony
3. ur fave b8hoven string quartet

?

>>71594495
pathetique

5th

I don't like his s.q.s

>>71594495

Sonata:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9hUsVq9q7U

Symphony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqYN7m2IHa8

Quartet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13NvQ70pZ4

>>71592371
he is certainly more skilled than Chopin. I'd attribute his lack of formal technique more to recalcitrance. I think a formalist like Ravel holds up better honestly.

>>71594535
I asked for your favourite b8hoven, not your favourite b8

>>71594038
Probably the stupidest post I'll read in this thread for the hour.

>>71594556
I believe Debussy was a better theorist
Ravel was just safe

>>71593626
>Tchaikovsky

Nigger can't even write a fugue. There is probably no composer further removed from Bach. Did you get your musical credentials from a cereal box?

>>71593879
I want you to trip so I can blanket filter all your posts.

>>71594495
1. 23rd/Waldstein
2. 7th
3. don't have one

>>71594495
32
7
13

>>71594535
Kill yourself already.

>>71594495
6
3
9

>>71594709
>not being sophisticated enough to savor the bewildering arabesque of contrapuntal bog bubbles

>>71594587
>safe

How the fuck was he "safe"? You can't even sound sufficiently impressionistic being safe at the turn of the century.

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>How to write a piano piece: a short guide by Franz Liszt:
>1. write a simple earworm melody involving two simple chords
>2. write 10 different variations of that melody, getting more and more ridiculously over-embellished each time
>3. don't bother writing any actual musical development
>4. fill the bits in between in the variations with pointlessly long cadenza-like arpeggios and flourishy bits
>5. drag out the ending of the piece for at least two minutes, but make sure nothing of any significant happens in those two minutes: ideally just write the same chord over and over in bigger and bigger arpeggios

done!

>>71594782
what does the "e" signify

>>71594803
i use the internet explorer icon for all my shitposts of this tone

>>71594642
Are you implying Liszt can?

>>71594765
he somehow managed to achieve this

>>71594811
why

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>>71594833
>begging the question

>>71593918
Fucking E fags I swear I'm going to kill you all.

>>71590868
All my favourite minor keys have a A# in it.
All my favourite major keys have a F# in it.
Therefore A# and F# are the best notes, for I am the king of this board.

>>71595715
This guy has the right idea. I'm the motherfucking king lol

>>71590417
I have a feeling its from one of beethoven's symphonies but I'm not sure, its definitely familliar

>>71590417
found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQIVWhKhwPA

Petzold

>>71590703
>/r/classical

>>71594782
Literally replace Liszt with Paganini and nothing would change

If you don't like Pierre Boulez' catalog then you're probably a cancer on modern music desu

>>71594782
>How to write a piano piece: a short guide by Claude Debussy
>1. write a modal riff
>2. write another modal riff
>3, write a third modal riff
>4. Voice leading, what's that?
>3. drown it all out in soupy arpeggios with the sustain glued to the floor

>>71597574
And it sounds beautiful and is more profound than most of the Romantic era preceding.

>>71564143
>>71584253
>>71584495
Bunch'a niggers. Handel did it best. By far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgVPrviDHSU

>>71597607
beautiful yes, but profound I would have to disagree with. It creates a very vivid image, but that's about it; it doesn't have much musical body to it

it's like a lot of french things: very pretty, but doesn't have much to say for itself, bit of a dumb blonde of a country

>>71597837
It's profundity comes from the musics greater and more purposeful interaction with the image. It's not stuck between formal restrictions and some supposed romantic image a la Smetana or others.

How do I learn to like the "weird" music such as Prokofiev and Shostakovich? I know some people who get really into that music, but I just can't seem to develop the taste for it; how do I unshackle myself from tonal-centric music?

>>71598000
Exposure

Gulda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrN4hVb1JCY

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>>71598281
Swinging your beats to shit doesn't make your shit not shit.

who /shostakovichpreludesandfugues/ here?

>>71590417
It's from a very obscure symphony

what does /classical/ have to say about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnn_UKKNv5c

>>71598538
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF-TmWzIpFI

>>71598680
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAaiWy6CTVU

>>71598680
it sounds like it's stealing that famous theme from danse macabre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyknBTm_YyM

go to 0:40 here

>>71597649
Objectively false.

>>71597409
If you like Pierre Boulez' """""catalog""""" than you're probably cancer desu

>>71598863
Speaking of composers playing their own works, does anyone know id a recording of Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concerto exists where the cadenzas are played like he does it? You can actually clearly hear the main theme when Rachmaninoff plays it, but of the others I've heard, virtually all sound like simple slurs.

>>71599534
Like, how can anyone shamelessly play the concert wrong when this recording exists?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uqZhnqHMAg

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hi /classical/ can you convince me like stravinsky thanks

>>71599724
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_Tqh9e7mg

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chopin is by far the worst popular composer
he's like cotton candy: wispy, saccharine, lacking in nutritional value and mainly enjoyed by children

>>71599800
stop listening to his nocturnes and waltzes, then

There's plenty of good stuff in his sonatas, the F minor fantasy, the barcarolle, the ballades and some of the polonaises

>>71599724
don't

>>71598680
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAP

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>mastersingers
>not best wagner

>>71600278
Nope. 2nd or 5th best depending on how you count. Every entry in The Ring cycle is better (Das Rheingold and Die Walkure in particular much better).

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>2nd movement from Beethoven's early sonatas

>>71600553
>>71600278
And on music alone Parsifal is better as well. Shame it has a shitty libretto. Pretty much Tristan und Isolde situation inverted.

>>71600622
>Pretty much Tristan und Isolde situation inverted.
don't tell me you're going full meme

>>71600642
It's true though. The Tristan poem is the best thing Wagner ever wrote, but at that time he was still experimenting with music. Everything noteworthy in Tristan is done much, much better in his later operas. It's a landmark, but not because it's great music. Even Tannhauser is better on that front.

>>71600553
Personally I always considered Das Rheingold the best out of all his operas. It's probably the only Wagner opera where I feel thoroughly engaged throughout the entire work.

>>71600833
I'd challenge you to find a better passage of Wagner, let alone music, than Liebestod.

>>71600585
you must want a bullet in your head

Bizet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NigEhGS557M

>>71601317
Really now? You're going to use the plebeian's "standard snippets" approach to weighting a work?
>find a better passage of Wagner
THE ENTIRETY of Siegfried. I guess he must have been saving the most of his creative energies for it, since he was composing for it during the same time he was composing Tristan.

>>71601496
Liebestod is admittedly the only exceptional passage of the work but in the context of the opera it really acts as a total fulfillment of all the opera's themes.
At least it isn't overlong, burdensome tripe like Der Ring.

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>>71601533
>overlong, burdensome tripe like Der Ring

so freakin' good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRCywJaUEIE

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Liszt's Mephisto Waltzes are fantastic

>>71601673
Is this what it will take to save modern classical?

>>71601704
beethoven isn't modern classical
and authentic modern classical music would never sellout to appease the unwashed masses

>>71601673
Oh, great! More kitschy shit!
Please kill me...

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I don't know if this is classical, I don't come to /mu/ often but I just found this and love it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIMvM8u9C-o&ab_channel=fourstringbassclef

>>71601760
next time you feel like posting just try having a tall glass of bleach instead

>>71601789
hey be nice >:(

>>71601704

>save

>>71601789
You're not scaring me off faggot

>>71601673

>the willingness to ruthlessly upend tradition under the influence of a larger culture can't be overstated

also called degeneration.

>>71601760

>le epic classical art meme from facebook

May I have recommendations based on my favorite recordings please?

Igor Stravinsky - Le Sacre du Printemps (Orchestre National de l'O.R.T.F, Pierre Boulez, 1963)
Ravel/Prokofiev - Klavierkonzert Nr. 3, Klavierkonzert G-Dur, Gaspard De La Nuit (Martha Argerich)
Frederic Chopin - Nocturnes (Rubinstein)
Gustav Mahler - Das Lied Von Der Erde (Otto Klemperer)
Johannes Brahms - Symphony No. 4 (Karlos Kleiber)
Sir Edward Elgar - Cello Concertos/ Sea pictures (Jacueline Du Pre, Sir Barbirolli)
Bela Bartok - Complete String Quartets (takacs quartet)
Erik Satie - Gymnopedies & other piano works (pascal roge)
Johan Sebastian Bach - 6 Cello Suites (Pierre Fournier)
Schumann, Piano Quartet Op.47/ Brahms, Piano Quartet Op.60 III Andante - Verbier Festival 2008 (Menahem Pressler, Salvatore Accardo, Antoine Tamestit and Gautier Capuçon)
Debussy and Ravel String Quartets (Alban Berg Quartett)

I also really like Debussy piano works and Beethoven's string quartets, but I don't have a favorite recording of those. This is also not the only classical I listen to, it's just the stuff that is indisputably classic to me.

>>71601760
>>71601673
Stop. There are 3 dozen other threads you can post that stuff in. There's enough shitposting in this thread as is.

>>71601893
Something tells me you'd like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FHFJ0lU9Us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moWbdD5Remw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQoP9iLwoos

>>71601618
I don't think that's a controversial statement?
>>71601673
>not even live video synced with audio
Also that Blood on the Leaves beat has NOTHING to do with what Beethoven was going for Jesus Christ.
I hate it when cash grabs are done with absolutely no musical basis in reality.

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>>71601893

>>71601969
>I don't think that's a controversial statement?
You think wrongly.

>>71602116
Well I will say that shitposting earlier aside, I've never been able to appreciate Der Ring. I finished Rheingold and started Walkure but so much of the time is just filled with, what sounds to me, like chromatic wank or very nothing dialogue where nothing happens.

chopin fucking sucks listen to this dumb bullshit fucking awful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulGNTXtSOCs

Does anyone know a good french horn etude or something that is under two minutes I can use for an audition?

>>71602285

>chink

Of course it's awful when an emotionless insect is playing it.

>>71602285
How fucking terrible is classical music? A bunch of kids forcing themselves to listen to and play some stuff that they only started playing because their parents told them to when they were a kid. God it's disgusting.

>>71602285
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ajgkBsjQOU

>>71602285
Look at how bored the expressions on all of those kids faces are.

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Classical music and anime go together like peanut butter and jelly

>>71602304
If you're considering a major in classical music but can't think of any classical music to perform for your audition...reconsider your major.

>>71602397
Does Ode to Joy count?

>>71602364
get out weeb.

>>71602397
just a highschool student, don't tell the mods

>>71602332
It isn't that classical music terrible. Far from it. It's that when you're a kiddo your brain is not developed enough to understand and appreciate it. I am 20 years old now, started listening to classical music 2 years ago. I wish my parents had forced me into playing an instrument when I was a kid.

>>71602563
I started playing an instrument when I was a kid and I stopped giving a fuck about playing instruments. Don't even worry. I played piano when I was like 5, I was taken to rhythm lessons called delcros or something when I was a toddler, I played cello all through 4th to 10th grade (until I basically quit). Then I picked up guitar and didn't even bother trying to learn scales because I couldn't give a shit. It's funny how I've played instruments for all these years and I still can't even play very well. It's just a massive pain in the ass. It's a skill that you lose if you don't do it for a long time too, which makes it pretty much worthless unless you literally practice at least once a week.

>>71602563

Enjoying classical music at age 20 is better than spending your childhood forced by your parents into doing something you don't like and having to attend countless boring lessons and recitals you don't really care about and then quitting as a rebellion against your parenst when puberty starts.

imo

PS: You can start to play, you're only 20 still.

>>71602334
Still shit.

What do you think of Offenbach?

>>71602563
The only thing keeping you from it is time. That's what I've heard my teachers say. The reason people say that children can have an easier time learning instruments is because they have more time on their hands to learn. If you have the time and are willing to put the commitment to it there's no reason why you can't learn it. To be honest my parents used to have people tell them that they can't learn sail boat racing when they were in their 20s and now they frequently win first place in yacht club regattas. It's just a bunch of stuck up pricks trying to make themselves feel important telling people they can only learn stuff when they're kids.

>>71602645

This, neuroplasticity is still a thing even when you're old. The amount of talented musicians that started to play/write music after their teens is endless.

>>71602563
This is bullshit. I got into classical at 21 and now I can even compose at 25. I read up on notation and theory just to read scores and better understand the subtleties of the music I was listening to. At a certain point I realized I could move seamlessly into writing music which at least would have some personally impactful dimension. On the other hand I shouldn't criticize because I still tell myself I can't learn piano because I have poor coordination to begin with.

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Babbitt is the true patrician

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>>71602364
>tfw I actually hate pj&j

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>>71603042
yes

>>71603124

Is this cover real?

>>71603203
http://www.allmusic.com/album/milton-babbitt-quatrains-manifold-music-my-ends-are-my-beginnings-mw0000996901

>>71603358

Lord have mercy.

>>71602629
Nice barcarolle

>>71603042
I love his music though I have to say it's really hard to appreciate as anything other than ambient music.

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Post glorious examples of development and variation please

>>71603500
post a good composer first

>>71603525
Okay
https://youtu.be/2dpMMeetFIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP_QX3PCOks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUnDjDUUglU
Which instrument did it better?

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What is essential Gliere? I've heard his harp concerto and I liked that

>>71604005
Not a good harpsichord example. That recording sucks

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>tfw finally found another prokofiev 2 that i like

>>71604073
nope

>>71603500
Bach art of fugue
Bach Goldberg varations
Bach Musical Offering

>>71604983
Whats bad about Gliere? I don't know his work

>>71605008
>Bach art of fugue
Yes
>Bach Goldberg varations
Sure
>Bach Musical Offering
"No"

>>71590703
>fb
nope.

Tell her double sided is dumb because you have to turn the page. single sheet master race and as many music stands as it takes

>>71605028
what's the matter pleb?

I am listening to Mexican Classical Music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQoYY5Cv8o

Thoughts?

>>71605073
it sucks because its not bach

Weichlein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVz00NYwJtQ

mccartney is a great composer

>>71605073
>>71605099

They have to go.... bach

>>71605073
BUILD

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>>71605073
Revueltas underrated

>>71590586
Seriously dude complaining about cage is one thing but messaien is a fucking god among men so far above that stupid fuck and his kantian nonsense.
The fucking musical equivalent of dialectical materialism, but it's absolutely wrong to lump messaien in there with them just because he's a serialist.
Also, messaien is NOT atonal, he has a pretty advanced sense of tonality due to synesthesia. Listen to his organ works and you'll see.

>>71599800

All pianists play his music in an almost intentionally terrible way.

>>71606180
>i-it's the performers that are bad!

neck yourself already, chopincuck

>>71606023
His organ works sound random, abrupt, not cosy. I still haven't given up on him though, and will continue to listen.

>>71606023

Typical fanboy. Yeah you can read all about how "colorful" Messiaen is and think you're cool listening to pieces like Chronochromie and Colours de la cite celeste, marvelling at the added tones and bitonalities, but in the end forty-five minutes out of every hour of his music is abrasive "le experimental" 20th-century gruel; spastic, self-conscious, and violent as Schoenberg, just less Jewish.

>>71604005
Violins. Sorry, I generally dislike the harpsichord as anything other than am accompaniment or continuo instrument. The dynamic control is too poor, and the way the strings are plucked makes it sound like coins clanging in your pocket.

>>71606643
No, ligeti is le experimental. Messaien is equally terse, but it's not hollow, he's a true modern whereas schoenberg was just another jew with a theory.

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>>71590378
Am I the only one who finds menuhin's playing extremely disturbing?
He looks like frankenstein or some shit.
Speaking of which, old gidon kremer looks funny as shit when he plays but God fucking damn those are the moves of the chosen one.

>bumplocked
New thread here --->

>>71606798
>>71606798
>>71606798