/classical/

>>71606798
>>71606813

Obrech is better than Josquin

>>71606798
>Liszt in top 10
/classical/ on suicide watch

>>71606825
Ockeghem beats them both tho.

>>71606798
>wagner in 4th

lol

>>71606822
I don't really care to be honest. He seems honest, unlike a few other overly theatrical performers. I find autistic prancing and bobbing endearing, but clowning around like a trained monkey annoying.

>>71606798
>no Palestrina
>no one born before 1560
Shit list

>>71606202

Historically, Bog was mangled by appalling interpretations to an ever greater degree than Chopin. So much so that even his formalism was almost imperceptible from the music itself. The 20th century phenomenon of Bog as music you listen to as opposed to an abstract philosophy you jerk off to like a /r/atheist is entirely due to one person - Glenn Gould. You'd be stuck with Barenboimiam trainwrecks otherwise.

Gould's approach to playing Bog is wholly applicable to Chopin's music too (that one sonata he recorded just to take the piss is irrelevant). I don't know where the fuck you get the idea that Bog and boggy music is "absolute" while Chopin's is somehow "not", when it's not even 100 years old and ENTIRELY the making of one person who was literally the most idiosyncratic and controversial pianist ever.

>>71606798
Telemann
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezUirMCPWgA

Post sad baroque.

>>71607321
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YW13NyCOPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkZvyA69wCo

Guys, please save me from my autism: what is the best recording of Brahms' clarinet quintet in B minor?

>>71607321
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B4ArQQZG6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8RPbPWFQCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t06sWFPw-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Ftp4vVAmM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPr2UKi3LlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV-TMXoyBAI

>>71606798
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLGzPDPw8Jw

Lehar bump.

Why can't western European composers write a missal to save their lives? Pretty much every Mass setting after the Renaissance is overly-dramatic/theatrical/showy/gaudy. Mass is supposed to be a solemn occasion, not a venue for exhibitionism.

Here's a missal done right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIxQ_B3Wpzg

Kleiber is so...well, this is the best Brahms 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmkl7GM_es

>>71607588
>a venue for exhibitionism

Also known as the Common Practice period.

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Why doesn't this man get more recognition? He trained Beethoven, Schubert and Liszt, for fuck's sake.

>>71606798
more vivaldi pls

>>71607762
Are you a homosexual? Honest question. Vivaldi is the 'chick flick' of baroque music.

>>71607588
Berezovsky, Chesnokov. Taneyev.

>>71607809
More Russians? Exactly my point. Find me a post 1600s western European chant that sounds as bone chilling as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZjS4s8yi_g

>>71607863
Holy shit; that bass...!

>>71607863

Bogbillies' idea of emotion is just spamming augmented chords.

>>71607863
Westerners may not be so into the whole "basso profondo and minor-but-with-some-perfect-major-cadences-thrown-in" thing, but there are still a few good choral writers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7ch7uottHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcL4J0pzlAg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdifXv4vl7U

They also get into more contemporary shit, instead of sticking the ye olde tonal system ad nasum.
Not a mass, but still excellent modern choir music. Not inspired by god, but instead by sol lewitt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mukrVsKqTs

the human being has been given a terrible and fantastic power that make him be the strongest animal of the entire cosmos : stupidity that judge subtility : and even the samrt people are wondering, "maybe stupid people are right! maybe this is not so marvelous..." he calls it "critical sens". The human being like to be critical and the more he does not like something, the more he feels important. You will notice I do it myslef right now in this very comment hahaha If ET come on day, they won't be able to destroy or to reduce humanity in slavery, because humanity has a very strong and imprecdictible weapon, arrogance and idiotness! You seems to be quite a pretty face and head at the same time..and I said all these strange things to wake your interest up, on my poor case. maybe you can visit my page, its in frensh exept music wich is mostly in a minor, but also C or B or not to B

>>71607807
t. moron who thinks only Germans can be good composers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Bjp9jptbM

How will formalists ever recover?

For the record, it was not my intention to pique boganon's shitposting interests and I disavow his involvement.

>>71607979
These are good. They're very much moored to ye olde chant tradition or eastern music (in Tavener's case). Really makes you think, eh? [spoiler]:^) ____ I had to.[/spoiler]

>>71607682
Watch Amadeus and you shall see why. Mozart put him in the shadows

Legrenzi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1CUol8EvnI

>>71608123
>the shadows

More like the bog.

>>71607807
I just died laughing. So true

>>71607321
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUe7hpazMi8

http://touchpianist.com/
Is there anything kinda like this but better

>>71607402
Reginald Kell, Busch Quartet (1937)

>>71607321

All Baroque is sad because it's just empty counterpoint. A giant etude that in its own tautology.

>>71607979
>ad nasum
It's "ad nauseam" (lit. "to nausea"). "Ad nasum" is (grammatically awkward) latin for "to on the nose".

>>71607682
Subjective opinion: his music is somewhat boring, and I can clearly see past his formulaicity most of the time. This does not happen with Haydn, who also was one of the greatest pedagogues in history.

>>71608123
Amadeus is based on a Pushkin tragedy, the relationship between Mozart and Salieri depicted in the movie is completely inaccurate.

Also Salieri was way more famous than Mozart in his lifetime, but Mozart was the preferred choice by his contemporary composers.

Anyone know where I can find some PDF's of the Oxford History of Western Music? I've been told it's the ultimate classical music history books but the whole set will cost me 200 dollars in my country, something I can't afford.

>>71609565
gen (dot) lib [dot] rus {dot} ec
You'll find it there, I just searched.

>>71607979
>Roomful of Teeth
Kitsch. Too gimmicky. They go from spoken word to barber shop vocals to gregorian chant style singing to mongolian throat singing (and more) all in the course of a couple of minutes. Nothing ever settles in. They whizz through vocal techniques just because. Good as an exercise, or good if you want a fast and quick reader's digest into various world music singing styles, but meh on its own merits.

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>>71609612

>gen (dot) lib [dot] rus {dot} ec

Thanks a bunch, mate.

>>71608722
upboated xD

man, the people who shittalk liszt and chopin here clearly haven't heard some of their better work

of course if you spend all day listening to chopin's nocturnes and liszt's etudes they're going to seem like shallow garbage

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>>71610074

They're either not pianists, or jealous pianists.

>>71610074
post the good shit then

>>71610191
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe-GrRQz8pk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDP3QJyun0I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeKMMDxrsBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-GrOpTOjs

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>>71610238
yeah, no thanks

>>71610628
dude thats like an hour of music, how you managed to listen to it all in under 40 minutes is impressive

>>71610712
>trying to trick me into listening to chopin

not this time satan

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Man I forgot how good this disc was.

Ya'll underrate Copland, seriously.

>>71610712
or maybe hes already heard them

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make me not hate bartok

>>71610734

I get gassy at night but I can't fart.

>>71610875

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbAO2Y1zlII

S U C H

P

O

O

K

Y

>>71610875
>>71610896

Whoa never mind. Real interpretation worse than a midi, like clockwork.

https://youtu.be/0xU-p9wmSqg?t=399

>>71610238
>they sound like every other Liszt and Chopin composition
I'll be honest, I've tried so hard to resist the "chopin and liszt are bad composer" but I've failed: I truly can't find any merit in their music.
The only time I can appreciate it is when I play it. Reading the scores and listening to it it's a bore.

>>71611026
Bach definitely sounds more similar to other bach than chopin does to other chopin

>>71611026
actually no, i take >>71611065 that back

but I definitely wouldn't say all chopin sounds too samey and repetitive

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Literally everything Bog ever made is based on this shit. You can copypaste parts of his first composition into his last one and no one would notice.

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Are any of Liszt's transcriptions and paraphrases worth having a look at? I've been through Reminiscences de Norma and Reminiscences de Don Juan, but they seemed very shouty and clunky.

>>71611413
upboated xD

I like Liszt
redpill me

>>71611575
depending on what Liszt you like, you might not need redpilling

post your top five liszt pieces

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>>71611540
>daDAda
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>daDAda
>ascending scale
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>...claaang
>daDAda
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>daDAda
>ascending scale
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>...claaang

>>71611606
https://youtu.be/thtVvQgUyC4?t=12s

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>>71611609
>oh wow here comes the modulation i wonde-
>daDAda
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>daDAda
>ascending scale
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>...claaang
>daDAda
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>daDAda
>ascending scale
>DAdaDA
>descending scale
>...claaang

Fact: Mozart is underrated
Fact: Mozart is objectively the greatest composer of all time
Fact: If Mozart isn't your favorite composer, his music is literally 2deep4u and you have low musical IQ
Fact: Considering the vastness of his catalogue, and the fact that one can only truly appreciate him in depth. There is literally zero (0) reason to listen to any other composer than Mozart.

>>71611750
upboated xD

>>71611750
wow these are fun facts do u have any more?

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>>71611750
>>71611805

I am a bogposter and I'm starting to think Mozart arguments, regardless of their nature, are deployed to derail a thread whenever Bog or Peathoven are getting smashed in the comments since Mozart's music is so frivolous and easy and talk about and/or make fun of.

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>>71611822
>Bogh
>Peathoven

>>71611822
I am a genuine Mozart poster, and I don't personally hold neither Bach or Beethoven in particularly high regard. Bach being too academic (wherein his value is found) and Beethoven being too vulgar.

Also;

[FURTHER PROOF INTENSIFIES]

Petzold

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>>71611877
He was twink faggot m8

>pic unrelated, a composer who made music that didn't sound like bourgeois sodomizing

is Rachmaninoff w&b?

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>>71611877

>Beethoven being too vulgar.

He wasn't vulgar enough.

I hate this board so much...

>>71611065
Maybe his fugues (with some notable exceptions), but that's a problem of the form itself. When you look at his repertoire you find extreme variety and an unmatched ability of adaptation to each genre he touched.

>>71611173
>but I definitely wouldn't say all chopin sounds too samey and repetitive
I would. There are certain harmonic and melodic progressions and certain ornamentations that he uses costantly. Sometimes he deviates from his norm, but usually in a almost formulaic way, in the sense that those deviations will themselves be used tenths of times in pther compositions.

He had a very limited musical language. It is understandable, since he spent most of his time bedridded and the time that remained was to be divided in composition, studying and piano practice (he was a pianist first, composer second), still this does not change my response to his music, which is usually boredom if not frustration.

>>71612398
I'm like bitch who is your man's? ay
can't keep my dick in my pants ay

>>71611877
>beethoven is too vulgar

Why?

Anyone who says Bach sounds same-y hasn't listened to a lot of Bach.

How does key signatures relate to me practically?

I pretty much memorized all the major keys but how do I utilize that knowledge?

I REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKING HATE THIS BOARD!!!
ARG HHHHHHHHGAHGAHSGAHSFGGHGAsI REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKING HATE THIS BOARD!!!
ARGHHHHHHHHGAHGAHSGAHSFGGHGAsI REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKING HATE THIS BOARD!!!
ARGHHHHHHHHGAHGAHSGAHSFGGHGAsI REALLY REAL LY REAL LY FUCKING HATE THIS BOARD!!!
ARGHHHHHHHHGAHGAHSGAHSFGGHGAsI REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKING HATE THIS BOARD!!!
ARGHHHHHHHHGAHGAHSGAHSFGGHGAsI REALLY REA LLY REALLY FUCKING HATE THIS BOARD!!!
ARGHHHHHHH HGAHGAHSGAHSFGGHGAsI REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKING HATE THIS BOARD!!!
ARGHHHHHHHHGAHGAHSGAHSFGGHGAs

>>71612451
>how do they help
They help your sightreading, also they make organizing notes on the score ifinitely easier. That's it.

>>71612174
>>71612440
>2 buttons meme
>beethoven's squalid aesthetic should be celebrated as a life-affirming cry of the blablabla
>period instruments were much quieter friendo
>:^)

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>>71612456

http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=yTU8WbTbZMI&video_start=42&audio=Ezg68znooJ8&audio_start=2

M U D

A

D

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>>71611609
>>71611655
Starting today it is my life's mission to get a piano string out of some piano Chopin used, find you, and strangle you with it.

AT LEAST USE YOUr BUZZWORDS IN EVERY POST YOU MOTHERFUCKER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE THE FILTER IS NOT CATCHING IT
I AM SICK OF BOGPOSTING DIE YOU FUCKER

AAAAAARRRRRGHHHHH

>>71612543
>>71612521
>>71612456
>>71612420
>>71611822
>>71611655
>>71611609
>>71611413

Can you samefag less please?

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>>71612543

Reminder that Chopin's smallest piece is INCOMMENSURABLY more musical than anything Bog made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3MqFP0-ekU

>>71612505
>2 buttons meme
What?
>beethoven's squalid aesthetic should be celebrated as a life-affirming cry of the blablabla
well, it was life-affirming, what arguments have you got to think the contrary? That said the bombastic, heroic aesthetic is something that he reserved for very few major compositions, almost never in his piano sonatas and string quartets.
Also fuck off for having used the adjective "squalid"

>period instruments were much quieter friendo
This strawman is wrong. The period instruments were quieter, but Beethoven wanted them to be louder anyway.
>inb4 fireman composer
Fuck off, the whole art pompier trope was meant to identify people in the romantic era who used loudness to hide a lack of sophistication in their composition. It has nothing to do with Beethoven's music, and loudness is not a flaw per se.

Tl;dr: why the fuck do I keep responding to baits

>>71612543
>>71612599

ALSO: >>71593013

>>71612591
>>71612417
>>71611877
>>71611750
>>71611413
>>71610875

Can you samefag less please?

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>>71612657

Hello!

Newfriend here, what is this >>71611609 >>71611655 >>71612599 meme?

Haha thanks!

>>71612690
Petzold

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>>71612599
>no 13

muh nigga

over the past couple months I got really good at interval recognition, what should I do now to further my ear training?

>>71612690
You don't want to know. It's funnier if you don't know. I'm starting to feel sorry for the bogposter.

>>71612696
what does this mean

>>71612690
just ignore it

Reminder to report and ignore shitposting.

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>>71612505

I just like his music, autismo.

>>71612730

Move on to chords I guess, learn to identify triads and all triads of inversions, then move to identifying extensions like 7 chords, 9's, 11's, 13's and so on, also in all their possible inversions and also their sharps and flats (#11, b9 etc).

>>71607762
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tImDKORu0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLYDXUVZLI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yK-ZHnVLNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-cbAqHjnjA

>>71612874

>triads of inversions

inversions of triads* obviously

>>71610875
Just listen to Janacek instead lol

Starting the recording of a CD of early German baroque music tomorrow. If I never see another chorale in my life, it will still be too soon.
>>71612767
wrong thread my man

Early Romantic (pre-Wagner) music is most often a miss, but what are its hits?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_u2xq1ls7s

>>71612913
The last one, the one in Eb major, is surprisingly good for a Vivaldi concerto. I almost passed it by since you linked a video with an Aria/Aqua image and I was expecting the most soporific, saccharine, stereotypical, lady-boutique Vivaldi shit.

>>71613114
Dussek, Spohr, Hummel, Cherubini and Neukomm

>>71613114
Assuming by early romantic (and posting Weber) you mean the classical/romantic crossover period? Because otherwise you're very wrong that we have to wait until Wagner comes along for good romantic music

>>71613297
I was inquiring about early Romantic, not late Classical / transition composers. But speaking of Cherubini, does anyone have a copy of Les Deux Journees? I've only heard excerpts but they sound great and Id like to listen to the whole thing.

Jiranek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KtYwRjrsaM

>>71613328
Isn't Weber as a composer, and Freischutz in particular the point that marks the beginning of Romanticism proper?

>>71613414
Lots of composers at that time are regarded as having a foot in each era: Weber's Freischutz, Beethoven's Eroica, Schubert's Winterreise are all key romantic moments even if the composers started more classical.

>>71613328
>you're very wrong that we have to wait until Wagner comes along for good romantic music
I disagree. Especially with opera (with which I am most familiar). All the best works from that period are by italians who didn't give a damn about any romantic ideals and continued composing in the classical style (donizetti, rossini). Even Verdi got pretty late on the Romantic train.

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>>71606798
MUHLAH!

>>71611655
t. knowing shit all about music theory

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>>71610875
He's a cutie

>>71613523
What makes Freischutz romantic that then doesn't apply to something like Norma? You can't dismiss bel canto opera just because you think opera must consist of 5 hours of musically-spiky Teutonic angst to be important or "good"

>even Verdi got pretty late on the Romantic train
Again, what do you mean by this? You seem to be using "Romantic" to mean something completely unrelated to its actual definition.

Heinichen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2uuuj84qWk

>>71613676

please dont reply to him

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>>71613676

Music THEORY was about the only thing Bog was good at.

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>>71613676
>>71613948
>no you see here where he spurts that trill in the soprano voice that sounds way more embarrassing than any romantic piece that's VERY different from HERE where he spurts another trill in the lower voice BUT due to self-referential ancient greek numerological constructs that have fuck all to do with what anyone not autistic actually hears this is very very very different and good yes

>>71613758
I fail to see where the confusion lies. Romanticism in music is all about placing dramatic intent and emotional content before formal structure. Bel Canto epoch italian opera doesn't follow this paradigm. Weber, with Freischuetz, does.

I'm not dismissing 'bel canto' opera by the way. I'm not sure what gave you that impression either.

>>71613114
Maybe you'd enjoy these as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8h6sD87SMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kNqwT_mSuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWU62Bsohzc

>>71613948
Yes and that is why he is the greatest composer. Because nothing else is relevant. Least of all "muh emotions". You can't make good music that isn't at least retroactively subject to theoretical deconstruction.

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>>71614235

Are you the guy that I got to totally reverse his argument and say theory is irrelevant and then started writing that Impressionist poem?

>>71614235

STOP
REPLYING
TO
HIM

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>tfw genuinley getting pissed at the bogposter and ignoring him isn't working

Say what you want about Brahms, Mozart, and Hindesmith

but leave Schumann, Weber, Beethoven, and Bach out of this you fucking spergtron

>>71606798
Where the FUCK is Mahler on that list?

>>71614386
In the trash where he belongs rofl

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>>71614338
>>71614235

Hmmm, maybe the guy was right after all. Apollonian faculties are certainly not bogbillies' strong suit.

>>71614345
[FURTHER PROOF INTENSIFIES]

>>71614404
This and if you disagree I will proclaim myself king of the board and your argument will be rendered impotent.

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>>71614404
good post

ps: hail victory

srsly tho if you like Bach but not Chopin you don't understand either.
Same for the reverse.

>>71614464
Please explain.

One writes intellectually complex but un-embellished and barebones music, the other writes intellectually and musically very simple music, but dresses it up with fancy flourishes and rich harmony

they couldnt be more different

>>71607979

>roomful of teeth

Why is modern classical music such an abomination?

what yall niggas think about monteverdi

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>>71614567
Quite good.

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>>71614345

>>71614499
>Chopin’s music has no humor, except for a certain elegant wit present in some of the preludes and mazurkas. however, the intensity of most of his works, large- scale and miniature, generally surpasses that of all his contemporaries. it is perhaps not hard to pinpoint the source of this extraordinary intensity. it arises from the strange combination, on the one hand, of the techniques he mastered, the long- breathed sustaining of Italian melody, supported as no Italian opera composer knew how to accomplish, by the contrapuntal texture, and on the other, with the richness and continuous expressive interest of the inner voices that he learned from his study of Bach and Mozart. to this he added his adventurous and radical experiments in chromatic harmony that appalled his contemporaries but were exploited by later generations. rarely disturbed by the ostentatious virtuoso effects of Liszt, never diluted by sallies of eccentric humor as in Schumann and Berlioz, and never hemmed in by the prudent classicism of Mendelssohn’s art, much of his music has an intense, focused passion hardly ever equaled in the years between Beethoven and Wagner.

>finally realize you are losing and everyone thinks you're a loon
>okay guys maybe Bog isn't that bad but no bully Chopin

pathetic desu

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i like both chopin and bach

is this autism or

>>71614598
>Chopin
>contrapuntal texture

Who in their right mind signed ooff on this?

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>plebs will praise Bach for his counterpoint but will pretend Chopin lacks it

>>71614640
look through the recapitulation section of his 4th ballade

>>71614598
I challenge you to find any of the "intense, focused passion" mentioned above in this piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtIW2r1EalM

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>>71614611

My only defining aspect as A bogposter is white-hot hatred of Bog. No lukewarm comments are mine. Also:

71607146

>no rebuttal for hours
>you're l-losing
>s-stop replying to him guys
>remember that time y-you got btfo hehe
>pls stop calling him "bog" D:

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>>71614643
>Chopin
>counterpoint

>>71614672

Damn where did those arrows go.

>>71607146

what the fuck is happening

Reminder that Chopin is underrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPN4gXy834
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZ_DlNfsWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDdjIhOwFEE
>>71614686
>still trying to force this meme
Reminder that anti-Chopin posters are autistic.

>>71614699
>guaranteedresposnes.jpg
t. Chopincuck

>>71614672
Who needs a rebuttal when you're the fuckin' king of the whole general? That's right kiddo, I am your king and I expect nothing short of humble supplication.

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>>71614660

Passion=/=jigging

>>71614640
>>71614686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTvfpwAGMHs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-3ht6O8bO0

perhaps you should listen to his music before saying anything about him

>>71614660
>playing two melodies at once is counterpoint

yeah nah

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>>71614631
No it means your pic related (IE patrician)

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>yfw Gould came back from the dead to shitpost on /classical/

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>>71614744

http://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/chopins-antisemitism/
I wonder who's behind all these anti-Chopin posts...

>>71614404
Bad post.

>>71614437
I disagree.

Nazism is wrong.

>>71614598

Is this another cancerous Adorno quote?

>>71614736
Two melodies plus a bass line, you're getting confused by the fact that he also puts arpeggiated chords in the left hand. If you can't see that this is counterpoint then your love of bach is just in-genuine too

>>71614798
prove it

>>71614810
*proves it*

>>71614805
.>implying there aren't strict rules to counterpoint.

I'm not talking about that degenerate Schoenberg shit. I'm talking species counterpoint motherfucka

>>71614810
Proof is left as an exercise for the reader

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>>71614798

No.

>>71614827
i dont see any parallel fifths or octaves, any ugly augmented/diminished intervals in the melody lines or cadence resolutions, any doubled up thirds or any violation of the other strict rules

sure, he's a bit adventurous with his harmony at points, but that's just the music being more developed

>>71614840
Yes.

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>>71614827
>motherfucka

Bogbilly AND redditor?

>>71614887
hi bogposter do you like chopin?

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>>71614798

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>>71614827
>species

What species would these be? They're certainly not the Human one.

>>71614919
>t. nazi

>>71614887
no, King of the general. Pleased to meet me :^)

>>71614271
You didn't make anyone reverse any argument. Your only achievement was a thorough demonstration of the fact that you are incapable of understanding that music and the perception of music are two different phenomena, and consequently that how much pleasure you personally derive from the audition of music has little bearing on its inherent quality.

You hate Bach's music because you do not have the capacity to process it (just to clarify any confusion: I am talking about music, not musical scores). Bach's music being discussed annoys you because you incorrectly assume everyone else is as perceptively limited as you except they(/we)'re dishonest about it, using 'cheat hacks' like analysis the score in various learned, algorithmic ways, but not actually 'detecting' anything of that in the performance, and hence incorrectly concluding that Bach's music fails to enchant us just as much as it fails to enchant you.

End of.

Here's 2 more neat little Bach cantatas (one profane, one sacred) for good measure --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2zzpINYE_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyOsZkDOKN8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5JZURy_DpR8

Nice fugato by Puccini.

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I don't come to this board often. What's this bog you anons keep talking about?

>>71614987
bach

>>71614987
It's some sort of nazi meme from /pol/. Pay no mind to it.

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>>71614946
>how much pleasure you personally derive from the audition of music has little bearing on its inherent quality.

Well, you're right. Bach's music has none.

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>>71614987
This thread is big enough for only one animeposter

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>>71615007
>falseflagging this hard

We got tribesman among us

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lest be honest bogposter, you don't actually dislike bach, you're just hostile towards people who like bach because they dislike chopin

i like both

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Stop shitposting

>>71615064
>if i post a nazi meme theyll surely think im a normal person and not a nazi from /pol/!

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>>71615079
>Stop shitposting

>Posts a picture of Glenn Gould

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>>71614992
Thanks

>>71615007
I don't get it. I've been shitposting on /pol/ for years but never heard of bog

>>71615030
n-no

>>71615090
Who's that cute boy?

>>71615079
Who are the best irl shitposters in classical music?
Gould and Boulez are up there for sure.

>>71615069

No I mean I DO hate bogbillies but my hatred of Bog would be just as strong without them.

Sorry to the unironic fans...I guess?

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>>71615097
yuzuru hanyu
he's my baby

you can watch him here, but be warned, just be careful the video doesnt make you pregnant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk6qrBrqAqo

>>71615085
That's an actual JIDF kike not a nazi meme

>>71615140
And who are the people responsible for making it a meme?

why are 90% of all harpists female

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>>71615125
why do u hate bach tho

even if you ignore the rigorous structure it all has, some of it's still plenty aesthetically pleasing to listen to

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>>71615129
He has a really cute butt.

>>71615079
>>71615090

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TbYMO0nK1U

Gould was a virtuoso shitposter as well. He would've loved bogposting.

>>71615156
because only 10% of the male population is homosexual

>>71615012
ON THE CONTRARY, it is rigorously demonstrable that a most substantial part of Bach's oeuvre possesses immense beauty, but of course, since you do not recognise an existence of music independent of its perception, you obstinately refuse to acknowledge the validity of musical formalism (i.e. objective, observer independent assessment/measurement) retreating instead to the self-destructing cathedral of
>muh feels

Kill yourself bogtard.

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>>71615158
>aesthetically

I hate aesthetics, intellectualism, and the Material world.

>>71615148
Shitposters big guy

>>71615224
I'll tell you what I think. I think you're just a nazi trying to hide it. Stop it you!

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>>71614929
>>71615085
>>71615148

Being a nazi is not a bad thing.

>>71615237
Nope, I hate fascists morons as much as Marxists

>>71615243
It's a horrible thing! You're clearly mentally unstable if you believe in nazism!

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>>71615198
what the fuck

>>71615179

How do YOU acknowledge them if they're observer independent assessment/measurement? Are you a straight up cretin?

>>71615103
>the best irl shitposters in classical music?
Stockhausen by far.

>>71615103
Schulhoff

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>>71615259

Nein.

>>71615291
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nZTgAGSajA
gould

>>71615168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nZTgAGSajA
right you are

>>71615243
Nat. soc. is best socialist. Gebrauchsmusik ist die beste musik!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up_tLURwydQ

>>71615339
This is awful.

>>71615280
Keep your anti-realist, anti-scientific, postmodernist imbecility to yourself please.

>>71615339

To be fair nazimarches are musically pretty horrible. At least post something classical related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoU-iCT21fc

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does /pol/ seriously have to ruin every board

>>71615270
Boganon suffers from liberal arts college induced PTSD, poor guy.

>>71615179
>>71615280
>bog's beauty is so sublime it's not even there
>i don't derive any pleasure from the music OR from the analysis

HOW deep does the bog go?

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Stop shitposing

>>71615253
>>71615259
>nazi's are mentally unstable
>be a genderqueer transhuman transracial human named xyr

the nazis were just trying to protect their culture and race, obviously for good reason, because look what happened to it.

>>71615329
How is the truth "shitposting"?

>>71615371
>since you do not recognise an existence of music independent of its perception

What are you, fucking retarded? HOW DO YOU EXPERIENCE THE ASPECT OF MUSIC THAT IS INDEPENDENT OF ITS PERCEPTION?

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Stop shitposting

>>71615453
he just worded it poorly, he meant "immediate perception" not "perception"

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>>71615421
Yes look at the fine young nazis today! Truly the creme de la creme of society!

>>71615409
So if you can't feel heat differentials because your nerve endings are fucked temperature doesn't exist. Trees that fall in forests where no one can hear them make no sounds. Got it. Thermometers are useless. Music theory is useless because music doesn't actually exist.

Your are solid proof that forced sterilisation and euthanasia needs to be a thing.

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>>71615419
>ywn experience Pre WW1 Europe

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>/classical/ was just a hideout for wehraboos to circlejerk about hitler on /mu/
S-a-s-u-g-a

>>71615453
>how do we know ultraviolet radiation exists? WE CAN'T SEE IT, SO IT CANNOT
>herp derp

You seem to have some sort of reading comprehension disability. Get a vasectomy. Your retard genes must not pollute the future generation.

>>71615475

I swear to God, ONE HOUR, of skimming Wikipedia articles instead of rummaging through the thesaurus like a fucktard will make you sound ALMOST not retarded. Well...for a bogbilly that is.

For fuck's sake Bog himself would be MORTIFIED to have you as a fan. Do it for him?

>>71615543
I'm sure at least half of those are more hardworking and overall better contributers to society than 99% of all nazis.

>>71615574
S O U R C E

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>>71615567

k

Goltz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q0MYGaTKuk

>>71615534

Your cretinism is definitely objective and observer-independent.

>>71615594
Incredibly skewed statistics. Those 500 are the anamoly. They were legally not allowed to get jobs. But I'd never expect a nazi to fact check. What can you do?

>>71615574
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PqWXDo9TIw

>>71615610

>legally not allowed to get jobs
>actually the only ones who got jobs
>fact check

kek, did you even read it?

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>im 1/4th german 2/4ths anglo 1/4th irish and a proud nazi

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>>71615484
Those are shopped to hell. Hes not a Nordic god or anything but hes an intelligent guy and passionate about what he believes. How Andrew looks really has nothing to do with national socialism as an ideology. Im not going to derail this any further and get banned.

>pic related, he looks better with a beard

>>71615631
It's like talking to a child.

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>me and my WHITE pops having some good family time together lol

>>71615653

Maybe they shouldn't import 162,500 people who are not legally allowed to get jobs, then, if that's what you're saying?

>>71615580
https://exhentai.org/g/831949/4d7137cfc5/

>>71615678
Maybe you should take that up with the government of Sweden or for that matter the entirity of EU. If it makes you feel any better; Sweden has tightened its regulations by a tenfold. You can sleep securely at night now.

>>71615607
Like I said, keep your anti-realist nonsense to yourself. Sound exists even if you are deaf (i.e. even if you lack the ability to experience it). You lost the argument a dozen posts ago. Not that a sophist fool like you would ever admit it (or indeed, be aware of it) of course.

>>71615691
>males only
>yaoi
>crossdressing
Gulp

Done with this board. Moving to talkclassical.

>>71615742
I hope this guy is the bogposter. Will we finally get rid of him?

>>71615567
>>71615610
500/163k... Yeah Id say those 500 people who found jobs were the *anomaly, that means the majority (99%) DIDNT find jobs. JFC are you retarded?

>>71615758
How does it refute anything?
>if they arent illegally seeking jobs they arent hardworking productive men like me!
For that matter Sweden took in Syrians, not Africans.

>>71614499
Which is which?

>>71615704

So, again, HOW DO YOU EXPERIENCE BOG'S MUSIC?

>>71615778
Oh shut up. You got my point completely fine.

>>71615785

>Sweden took in Syrians

A few. Mostly afghanis actually, a very low minority of the refugees coming into Europe are actual syrians.

>>71615794
The same way you experience any music you moron. You hear it.

>>71615807
>https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scb.se%2Fhitta-statistik%2Fsverige-i-siffror%2Fmanniskorna-i-sverige%2Fin-och-utvandring%2F&edit-text=

Complete bollocks.

>>71615799
No its not coherent at all, nowhere does it say that 162500 of those immigrants weren't legally allowed to get jobs. For all we know Sweden didnt need 162k unskilled laborers, or maybe they didnt attempt to find work.

Either way you are trying to justify your multiculti pipe dream with information you dont have.

>>71615832
>since you do not recognise an existence of music independent of its perception, you obstinately refuse to acknowledge the validity of musical formalism (i.e. objective, observer independent assessment/measurement)
>you HEAR music independent of your perception

The only way you're not an automaton at this point is if English is your second language.

>>71615849
It wasn't a financial decision you idiot. It was a humanitarian one. For better and for worse. And I do actually have the info. Give me 5 sec I'll give you the link in a minute.

>>71615877
Unless you have some sort of "alternative" way to back up your statistics I'd say this is the best we've got to go on.

>>71615704
>>71615832
>>71615863

Can't believe I stayed up this late to be the only one in this thread to keep track of your borderline-illiterate self-contradicting garbage for nothing.

Such is the wage of bogposting?

>>71615863
I see what's tripping your stupid little brain now. The solution is simple: go take remedial English classes you twit. Start by looking up the word "recognise" in a dictionary. It's polysemic (you probably also need to look up "polysemic").

Figures the classical general would be filled with a bunch of /pol/tards. Go back to your own board.

>>71615951
Report off-topic posts.

>>71615935

"Dark music", the final frontier of idiocy.

>>71615935
I am literally in tears laughing right now. You're such a fucking illiterate retard in the most self-unaware, ironic manner possible ---

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/recognize

Definition of recognize
recognized; recognizing
transitive verb
1
: to acknowledge formally: such as
a : to admit as being lord or sovereign
b : to admit as being of a particular status
c : to admit as being one entitled to be heard : give the floor to
d : to acknowledge the de facto existence or the independence of
2
: to acknowledge or take notice of in some definite way: such as
a : to acknowledge with a show of appreciation recognize an act of bravery with the award of a medal
b : to acknowledge acquaintance with recognize a neighbor with a nod
3
a : to perceive to be something or someone previously known recognized the word
b : to perceive clearly : realize

>>71615935
>>71615996

Granted, it's also possible I'm being trolled. There's almost NO way you're this oblivious.

>>71616008
Post meant for the retarded bogposter here
>>71615929

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>>71615719
What's the matter anon?

>>71615951
Come on, who else would be into classical?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6OQCncAiC8

>>71616008

I don't need any assists, guy.

>>71615897

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-press-releases/-/3-18092015-BP

Around 75% are not from Syria. The thing is most don't have documents or ID to prove who they are, and will claim to be Syrian as it is the easiest way to be granted asylum. In addition, many claim to be underaged for more benefits.

Anyway, that's all. I won't shit up the thread further.

svenskjævel ;))

>>71616028
>i recognize bog's value though i cannot experience it so the measure of my recognition is the measure of my blind stupidity

PLEASE tell me this isn't it.

>>71616028
>>71616094
>unironically vouching for "dark music"

So, every major fault in basic logic, about one per comment, has been INCIDENTAL to your pro-Bog argument? The reason simply being you're a superconductor for the Platonic Form of stupidity?

First time this general made me sad...

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>>71616025
No, you're so fucking stupid you have trouble reading basic English. So much so that you read
> you do not recognise an existence of music independent of its perception
not as
>you do not acknowledge an existence of music independent of its perception
but as
>you do not perceive an existence of music independent of its perception
This is how stupid you are.

>>71616094
Before the above happened, I'd assume you were trolling, but now I know that your reading comprehension really is THAT bad. Of course that isn't it. It boggles the mind how you're read that out of anything I've said. But then again, some people really are THAT fucking stupid.

>>71615198
If you don't like music why don't you get the fuck out of /mu then?

>>71616192
The guy who mentioned dark music wasn't me. Just someone profiting from your imbecility. Can't blame him.

>>71615996
>>71616192

You are arguing in favor of "dark music" (akin to "dark matter"). Not even Bog could make you realize how absurd this is. Just stop.

Best Scarlatti Sonatas?

>>71616271

Uh, meant for:

>>71616205

This is as dumb as it is sad. I can't imagine being this autistic. Stop talking to me.

>>71614567
God tier.

>>71616228

Gould agreed with me. Look it up.

>>71616303
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11b0wqTvhzg

>>71616340
I'm not arguing in favour of anything remotely like it you dunce. We already know sound exists. Music is a structured sequence of sounds at varying frequencies and amplitudes.

Get the fuck out of the thread already. And this board. And this planet. Kill yourself.

>>71616303
k 141
k 82
k 83
k 545
k 553

>>71616425

How does this relate to your argument of Bog's value being in the imperceptible aspects of music?

>>71616482
>your argument of Bog's value being in the imperceptible aspects of music
I have never made such an argument. Further proof that you're functionally illiterate.

>>71616425
>>71616482

Honestly I don't even know what's happening any more. There isn't any connection between any of your comments. What's life like for you? One of those late morning dreams?

>>71616506

So, the value of Bog's music can be ascertained from its perception and I'm right in calling it shit?

>I have never made such an argument.

>>71616506
>>71616586

You've already reversed this, among other things, once before in this comment:

>>71615832

Just so you know...

>>71616586
I already answered that. Aside from abysmal reading comprehension skills, you must also have the memory of a goldfish on crack. This has been a really funny engagement though. It's like I'm interacting with a lesser life form. You're still predictably moving around in the same circle, unawarely, unable to conceive of any value judgement independent of personal enjoyment.

>>71616618
I didn't reverse a iota. You're simply retarded. An honest to God imbecile. Were you in a special class in school?

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>>71616586
>I already answered that

To whichever degree you're capable of concession, I'll take that as one. A "dark concession"?

Bog IS shit. Finally.

>>71615574
the rite of spring

>>71616703

I WILL admit that you got me there though. You can't change arguments if you have none.

>>71616667
>funny

Everything's funny to you, fella.

Later, bogbilly.

>>71616761

FUCK meant for:

>>71616667

Eat shit.

>>71616761
I am eminently capable of conceding a point. There is nothing to concede here. You're wrong maggot trapped in the bog of your own maggoty imperfections.

Bach is awesome and his music is beautiful.

>>71616804
>You can't change arguments if you have none.
More self-unaware irony from the bogtard.

>>71616882
dont reply to retards

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What are your thoughts on Brahms's piano sonatas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuW2WJFFh4c&t=11s

>>71617004
Shit

Chopin and Liszt are two times better

>>71617018
pleb

>>71617018
liszt's piano sonata is great yeah, but it's also very shouty and clamorous

chopin's B flat minor sonata has a lacklustre first movement, there's just not much worthwhile material there

The B minor sonata's first movement, on the other hand, is a work of pure genius. But no-one has ever been able to justify why the third movement is so long and repetitive

>>71617027
Nah, Brahms is good m8, but he should've left piano to his better contemporaries like Grieg and Faure

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>music discussion on /classical/ happening again

>>71617048
I strongly disagree listen to op. 116-119

>>71617059
comfy as fuck m8, wish I was being molested to rabbits rather than listen to bog

>>71617004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KDAe2GtYmw
Very nice

>>71617048
If we ignore the fact that all his piano works are very unpianistic and inelegant, do you like the sonatas then?

>>71617078
Nah, Piano Sonatas shouldn't have existed after Beethoven, Scriabin's are very good but there is not much else I would consider on the same level as those two

>>71617123
liszt?

>>71617123
>Nah, Piano Sonatas shouldn't have existed after Beethoven
I think I'd mostly agree with that actually, yeah

Although I am very fond of Chopin's B minor sonata and a few of Prokofiev's

>>71617139
Forgot that one m8, I feel awful forgetting about Liszt since he has the greatest piano set (YoP) after Thoven's sonatas and Bach's wtc

Post interviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8GN1O6Zzyw

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Let's all do better next thread.

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>>71617160
I like Mosolov's and Roslavets stuff, but like I said above applies to those two

Only's Scriabin's 4th, 5th, 8th, and 9th in my opinion can stand up Beethoven's late monuments, in terms of harmony and ecstasy and not in the sonata form in itself

>>71617004
Am I wrong in saying that those first ten seconds are a horrific hommage to the Hammerklavier opening?

>>71614786
I am the king so don't disagree with me.

>>71617304
>Am I wrong in saying that those first ten seconds are a horrific hommage to the Hammerklavier opening?
Yes. Then followed by an hommage to the Waldstein opening, where Brahms drops the whole thing by a tone and repeats it

>>71617357
Alright I was just hearing things then, maybe that chord strike at the beginning had drawing comparisons

>>71617461
nah I meant yes as in agreeing with you
should've worded that better

I think it's the rhythmic punch of the opening fanfare that gives it away

>>71610875
Very well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATQIBolNstc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeUTzCvoBEQ

I'm new to classical (and music in general), but I just listened to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_lOOYSzoBc

And I legitimely cried. I think it's the only time music has ever made me cry.

>>71617304
>Contemporaries found various ways to annoy him. A musician or a music lover might intend to display his own great understanding, good judgment of music, and acquaintance with "some" of Brahms' music. Hence he dared say he had observed that Brahms' First Piano Sonata was very similar to Beethoven's Hammerklavier Sonata. No wonder that Brahms, in his straightforward manner, spoke out: "Das bemerkt ja schon jeder Esel." ("Every jackass notices that!")

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>>71617647
you might like to take a look at rachmaninov's op.23 preludes and op.39 etudes tableaux then

see if you can find lugansky's recording.