/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

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How do you draw the line between competent characters and Mary Sue?
Is it okay for characters to be good at everything without a reasonable amount of character build up or explanation?

>>9951283
The definition has been warped so much by pop culture that it no longer means anything, so you can't.

>>9951283
Only if everyone else points out how fucking ridiculous it is some random person is that good without training. Add in some deep character flaws that come up occasionally to screw them over and you're good to go.

An epic fantasy... SET UNDER THE SEAS!

Would any of you be willing to read this?

>>9951283
If you mean how to write them:
Well it depends. You won't have much of an interesting story if the hero is amazing at everything. Adding obstacles at that point will make the story feel contrived as a result. Ideally the central conflict should be related to a hero's faults.
If you're talking about supporting characters, I suppose they're easier to get away with. Just put some distance between them and the protagonist and you're good.
If reading:
The line between them is really fine, honestly you should be able to tell right away by how much characterization the author puts in.

>>9951332
Stories taking place under the ocean typically are SF. I haven't read a fantasy one, though they exist, so I'm partially interested. Then again, what would setting the story under water add to a fantasy story? Other than mermen

>>9951332
>epic fantasy
This needs to end.

>>9951283
Okay, I'm going to come up with an example.

Mary Sue: Can kill an entire army on their own and everyone is totally in awe of their super awesome speshul skillz.

Hyper Competent: Can kill an entire army on their own to the complete horror of every authority figure around them. This causes them to be shower the hero in gifts to persuade them to either leave them alone or join them to take over the surrounding territories. The peasants fear the anger and wrath of this person so they offer them free drink, food, and shelter to avoid drawing his ire. All of the attention eventually drives the hero crazy so he takes the nearest ship towards a faraway land to live a modest farmer's life.

>>9951354
No. Epic Fantasy spanning 400 books needs to end.

>>9951374
I'm okay with 400 books, have an ending and spare me from dark lordism

>>9951382
*just have

>>9951382
You are dumb.

>>9951394
Well that really moves the conversation forward

>>9951332
Make it set on the seas, all the pirate fantasy SUCKS. Well it mostly doesn't exist in the first place, but Locke Lamora book 2 fucking sucks.

Best scifi that takes place inside a video game?

>inb4 RP1

>>9951283
Mary Sue is less about what a character can do, and more on how they do it and their personality.

Arrogant cunts with retarded luck.

>>9951465
I liked Otherland a lot, but THEY'RE IN THE GAME generally works for me whether via VR or portal. I'm not sure why since I'm not much of a gamer.

How does /lit/ feel about Zelazny? Happened to pick up Unicorn Variations cheap. I'd never heard of him before. Not bad.

>>9950388
>complex language
>shorthand
It's been previously explained that he has an excellent memory, and he just made the guy write down all the sounds he could think of. He just performed the AMAZING FEAT of learning a new alphabet, how fucking amazing.
I think I figured it out. Brainlets hate Kvothe because they're too stupid to understand him. Actual smart people enjoy reading about him because they can empathise with him. I don't know if you guys know this, but some people are just good at everything. They're real, not even that uncommon. I'm talking "walk into a room full of experts on a topic he never heard of before and surpass their grasp of the topic by the end of a conversation". I've seen a guy learn to play the violin in 5 minutes flat, having never played an instrument before. But you never see these people in stories, because everyone thinks they're "mary sues". But they're not, they're probably the most unsuccessful, miserable people on Earth. Almost ALL of them end up just like Kvothe, working a nothing job in the middle of nowhere, totally abandoning all their accomplishments, contemplating suicide, having alienated all their friends and family and burned all their bridges.

Reading Name of the Wind is amazing if you know how horrible it is to be smart and talented, the isolating, alienation, and hubris. How you ruin your entire life with your own two hands because no one can stop you. For you, you just see him performing all these amazing feats, I see all the horrible mistakes he's making with these seemingly good ideas and know exactly what's going to happen.

You also don't seem to get that it's a mystery. The whole point of making the protagonist so talented is to make you wonder how he ended up in such a horrible situation. It's like a Sherlock Holmes story started with him living on the streets as a hobo, having lost all his money and condemned by Scotland yard. You'd want to know how on Earth that happened wouldn't you?

>>9951483
I would like more books exploring virtual reality. Maybe a game where all characters are born within the virtual world, and the universe follows some of the physics and tropes of a video game.

>>9951491
Widely extolled but seldom read.

Is The Kingkiller Chronicle a good series? I was thinking about checking it out

>>9951494
The problem isn't, really, Name of the Wind. Not everybody likes it and it has real flaws but it was well received and honestly is pretty good on its own merits, some of which you pointed out. The problem is Wise Man's Fear being bad combined with Rothfuss' aggressive insufferability.

>>9951507
I hope this becomes the new /lit/ meme

What should I read first: The Black Company by Cook series by Cook or the Prince of Nothing series by Bakker?

>>9951491
Most underated sffg author of all.

>>9951524
Cook. Also try his Instrumentalities series.

>>9951524
If you love GRI, Prince of Nothing, otherwise Black Company.

>>9951491
I enjoyed reading his Amber books as a kid, I don't think I would enjoy reading them now. I've never read anything else by him, I probably should.

>>9951539
Too much first person was his downfall.

>>9951519
No, Wise Man's Fear isn't bad, it's just a reaffirmation that it's a mystery first, fantasy epic second or maybe never. If you pushed through the first book hoping it would change it's a gigantic slap in the face. As for the author, i cna agree that the worst mistake I ever made was looking up his blog to see if there was any news about the next book. GOOD GOD I hate that fat smarmy bastard! My only recourse is to not think about it and hope I forget who he is by the time the last book comes out. Unfortunately the more time passes the more I remember how much of a piece of shit he is.

And granted, the sexually-liberated-feminist-asian-matriarchy-kung-fu-enclave was kind of worrying. it's the first sign of the author slipping into the story with his awful, awful opinions. Hopefully that's just his fetish and we're out of the magical realm now. hopefully.

>>9951547
Zelazny makes it work.

how much GRI does the Stormlight Archive have?

>>9951545
>I enjoyed reading his Amber books as a kid, I don't think I would enjoy reading them now. I've never read anything else by him, I probably should.
Amber is for teenagers, Lord of Light is for adults.

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Half way through the first book of Gardens of the Moon.

I don't care about these people, the only interesting characters are Hairlock, Anomander Rake, and Kruppe. I only include Anomander because his name is fucking awesome.

The Claws, The Empress...ALL of the Malazan empire seems ethereal like it has no stakes. Everyone is on some lone trail in the wilderness like they aren't part of some LARGE SPRAWLING EPIC FANTASTIC kingdom.

All of the combat capable people are written to react and quip the same.

Even the empresses right-hand Adjunct gets caught out in the fucking jungle by herself. What the fuck.

>>9951491
The Chronicles of Amber is fucking awesome modern fantasy pulp. Skip the sequels.

Lord of Light is a great read.

>>9951569
Thank you for the recommendation, I will go read it.

>>9951564
None. Author is a Mormon.

>>9951494
Well said my guy. People are scared of what they don't understand.
>>9951507
Possibly the greatest fantasy series ever written. You have to be pretty smart to get it though; if you found wolfe hard to follow then don't bother.

>>9951524
Prince of nothing. Book is pretty meh.

>>9951575
>Lord of Light

>They called him Mahasamatman, and said he was a god. He preferred to drop the 'Maha-' and the '-atman', however, and called himself 'Sam'. He never said he was a god. But then, he never said he wasn't.

Paragraphs that hooked you instantly?

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man, I know you guys hate Rothfuss, but the man is a fucking genius. he writes two books and constantly gets sent to cons, book signings, gets to do university lectures, has his own (overfunded) kickstarter, and is in talks for a video game and a tv series. on top of all that, he gets his own anniversary edition of his first book. all for just sitting on his fat ass.

i mean look at this shit

>>9951634
That's the way to go though, write two above average books with a shit tonne of characters and waifu potential then tell people you're going to write one hundred more.

I'm writing an isekai story about a shut in who walks around with a loli sorcoress for a whole book then promises ass fucking in the next book.

I'm never going to write the second book though.

>>9951640
>>I'm never going to write the second book though.
Pure evil

>>9951548
Oh go fuck yourself to an herodom you Stockholm syndrome cunt.

is "the sci fi hall of fame" the best sci fi comp?

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>>9951520
>new
Hi Mr Reddite, that meme is as old as this general. That particular anon always uses it to get some discussion about his favorite series. See here >>9951494 and here >>9951548
We usually ignore him, but you newfags are taking his bait. He is once again writing walls of text treatises on Rothfuss and his work.

alright /sffg/ what the hell should i read?
i have
>titus groan
>books of the new sun
>the way of kings
>h.p. lovecraft's collected work

>>9951283
>that pic
kek

>>9951725
Who else but I talk about the awesomeness of the Lahnkmar Stories?

I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy on 4chan who talks about them. Because I'm special.

any sci fi books similar to fallout? I know theres a whole post-apocalyptic genre but I want it specifically Fallout-ish

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>>9951570
>The Empress
RREEEEE

>>9951738
Canticle of Lebowitz

The perfect one, look no further.

>>9951725
I'm stealing that nigger paragraph as a short story writing prompt.

>>9951640
>about a shut in who walks around with a loli sorcoress for a whole book then promises ass fucking in the next book.
The Obelisk Gate. Is that you Jeminsin?

>>9951740
already reading that lol
anything else? i'm kinda obsessed with FO

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This is undeniably the best story Patrick Rothfuss has ever made.

>>9951570
Gardens of the Moon is pretty slow actually but it picks up in the next couple books amd practically turns into a different series
Also Quick Ben is the most interesting character in the series next to Kruppe

>>9951756
The Road for raider-kino.

Vic and blood coupled with the movie A Boy and His Dog. The fiction that pretty much inspired the game Wasteland and then Fallout.

>>9951283
The definition of mary sue used to be the character having a moral high ground over everyone else, just being a vessel for the authors own opinions to shit over all the other strawmen they write. But I guess that definition is dead by now since no one mentioned it.

And since the general seems to be in Rothfuss shitpost mode I'm gonna add that I'm amazed he's the only fantasy writer so far that managed to not only write a mary sue main character, but a whole ethnic group of mary sues instead. The not-gypsy highly educated and sophisticated hobos are the only example of racial supremacy I read about in fantasy, that's kind of impressive. Just when you think he might have an ounce of self awareness to make them not as unrealistically perfect as Kvothe was making them appear they turn out to be evil fakes pretending to be not-gypsy highly educated and sophisticated and too good for the average peasant to share the full extent of their amazing art hobos, that's when I gave up on ever caring to see even a summary of the 3rd book, not that the disgusting fat gnome will ever finish it.

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>>9951756
Then ask /v/ or /vg/ we don't game here. How can we give you a comparison when we don't know of what you speak, the aesthetics. (Yes we know it's a post winter nuclear wonderland, other than that, kaput.)
You want post apocalyptic novels? Check out the chart. Also add wind up girl to your list.

>>9951775
>we don't game here.
Anon...Come on.

>>9951782
Well the ones of us that actually read don't game. How do you expect us to finish a 100 books in a year in our spare time, if we have to play a 100hour long game?

>>9951775
>>9951790
>we
>us
you really /lit/ isn't a hivemind?

>>9951765
gave me a good hoot

>>9951790
you can just do half half not that hard at all

>>9951791
If you dark souls babbies came here to shitpost and ended up staying. You can't expect it to be our faults when your hi/v/emind falls on shuttered ears. We actually read here. We don't have time for fallout or marrowmind or deep space.

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>>9951804
dear lord.....

>>9951807
Please take your pixels back to your gate generals. Also ps4 has no games, kinects is watching you fap, etc.

An hero.

anybody know of any books similar to the Halo games?

Writing an emotionless character is proving quite difficult. I don't know how she's supposed to phrase anything aside from not using abbreviations or contractions

>>9951829
Just have her always respond with "I have no particular opinion on the matter."

>>9951818
The Lazarus Wars series maybe? It's about a team of soldiers who pilot remotely controlled vat-grown super-soldiers against a zerg-esque enemy, but they end up finding some ancient and evil precursor civilization. Little more Aliens in style than Halo though.

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>>9951729
Book of the New Sun.

>>9951829
>I don't know how she's supposed to phrase anything aside from not using abbreviations or contractions
How does that make somebody emotionless? That just makes them sound like a primitive text-to-speech AI.

>>9951729
Lovecraft.

>>9951917
It doesn't, but its an unnatural, unaccented speech pattern that seems sterile

Felisin

>>9951818
Ringworld

>>9951818
Ringworld?

>>9951980 see >>9951739

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>>9951775
>Seven Forges
>YA Shit
>Maximum Ride
I refuse to believe anyone on /sffg/ recommended any of this trash, take this garabage chart elsewhere

>>9951980
delete this

>>9952069
Seven forges is about gods among us (kinda okay first two books, shits the bed later)
Maximum Ride is YA (which is a shit genre and thus you will get shit recs).
ESL please leave

>>9951283
Mary sue was never even supposed to mean anything like competent. It means the character the author fantasizes is him because he is an amateur.
Absurdly competent characters are perfectly fine in many stories, it's autistic to dismiss that as inherently bad, it all depends on the framing.

>>9951570
Hang in there.

>>9952069
You have been bamboozled, 90% of our charts are made ironically and full of garbage with a few good books thrown in to increase credibility.

>>9951719
That kind of categorical claim is nothing more than bait ultimately but it is a very strong collection. I would read it more as a historical tour though; more effort went into making sure there were representative stories of key authors and eras than necessarily making sure the very best stories were included.

>>9951215
Where would a dumbfag find The Book of the New Sun online for free?

>>9951491

For A Breath i Tarry is the greatest SF short story ever written.

>>9951738

Wool by Hugh Howey

>>9951829

I think theres a subreddit for people who married autists and they like to share, you could try that, there are some real horror stories in there.

>>9952742
What about people having sex with a "count to potato"?

>>9951775
I can't tell if this is a legit list or not

Why do this to new readers? WHY

>>9952762

r/relationships

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>>9952680
https://forum.mobilism.org/viewtopic.php?f=1293&t=712490&hilit=New+Sun

>>9952767
More than half of it is garbage but there are some good titles there.

>>9952767
It is legit. Look at the fucking subsections. I was here from the beginning and every subsection there was asked by multiple anons over the years. So I made a chart with "frequently requested subgenres". Every book there I read and was recommended to me by /lit/ sometime over the course of my many years in these infinite hallowed Jest filled walls.

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>Spend a decade writing several books
>Achieve fame and success in your own country but not in other countries
>Some people approach you to make a video game based on your book series
>Eh, fuck it why not?
>The video game series goes on to achieve worldwide fame and success and is the only reason almost anybody has ever heard of you or your books
>They also retconned several things
>tfw

>>9952767
Murrhurrhurr

>>9952954
Don't forget he got a lump sum instead of royalties for the licensing rights. He doesnt make a cent off the game sales.

>>9951283
What definition of Mary Sue?

Anyway there's nothing wrong with competent characters.

The problem is when a character is a self-insert, always has the moral high ground and also no character so to speak of / a lot of out of character moments.

>>9951671
Pure genius.

>>9951753
I haven't actually read it, I was going to write it a lot more like spice and wolf except instead of trading and romance the pair is trying to find a way to destroy the uber darkness beast that wiped out their respective villiages.

The catch call is that a sorceress needs a creampie to super charge her powers but they can't fuck regularly for some plot reason, the last chapter is the pair finding out that he can slam her shitter instead and journeying to reunite.

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>>9952990
>but they can't fuck regularly for some plot reason
Give her tight pussy syndrome. It hurts both of them to have sex, so they only use it in extreme cases.

What are some books that are like "the blade itself" series? I really like Abercrombies style, but i already read everything from him.
I also liked the shadow trilogy from weeks (black prism too, but there was too much magic)

>inb4 edgy
>inb4 pleb
I dont even care, i just want to be entertained...

>>9953002
>liking Abercrombie
You have to go back

>>9951283
Hardly anyone uses the term correctly that when I see it I just assume the person is an ignoramus who can't articulate a real opinion and so borrows the only terms they have to approximate their feeling of dislike into something that resembles actual criticism.

Most of the time I see people complaining about competent characters though it just comes off like they have an inferiority complex and are mad they can't project their failures onto the character. They make absurd demands of the character, like "they need to fuck up more" or "they don't have enough personal flaws" which is baffling to me. It's like a 10 year old's approach to reading.

>>9951364
The second one sounds more like a Mary Sue to me, cause all you did was "he's so awesome that it's actually tragic and makes him miserable" which is no less common than the other way of "he's really awesome and everyone loves him". It's just as self centered and eye-rolling to read.

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>>9951215

What are some books which feature a male main character who fucks his mum and they love eachother. Asking for a friend.

>>9953199
Oedipus Rex

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>>9953199
Obviously

>>9953199
Sounds like something Heinlein would write.

What are some fantasy books where the hero gets pegged?

What are some fantasy books where the heroine stays pure?

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>>9953199
>>9953270
>>9953375
Are you going to be typing the same prefix over and over again?

What are some fantasy books where the enchanted frog is not a princess but merely a grotesque amphibian with a wide range of facial expressions?

>>9953427
There is definitely an episode like that in Discworld

>>9953375
So far, Sufficiently Advanced Magic.
The protag is a complete sperg and probably a virgin

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>>9953427
kinda close.

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Is Pelevin /sffg/ material?

>>9953580
is it a kangz book?

>>9953587
What exactly do you mean?

>>9953594
yes

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bakker is unironically one of the best fantasy series ive ever read. why isnt he fetishized in these threads like le fat catholic man?

> Kelmonoas?!

>>9953677
>he fell for the meme

>>9953677
Bakker(pbuh) is the holy prophet of GRI, /sffg/ venerates him all the time.

>>9953594
Kangz refers to the erroneous Afrocentric fringe theory that the common egyptian and egyptian ruling class was black in antiquity.

>>9951283
Mary Sue: Can kill an army with his sword and everyone wants to suck his dick and thinks he's handsome and cool and kids stop him on the street to ask about his stories.

Not a Sue: Can kill an army with his sword and is about average in handsomeness. Some people are so impressed by his skills that they want to fuck him. Some find it unsettling. Some treat him like anybody else that could kill them personally if he wanted. Kids stop him on the street and unless he's in a really good mood, he tells them to fuck off. Most people who know him well don't like him, and those who do, find him frustrating to be around because of the emotional issues he has as a result of an abusive father. He tends to push people away because he's afraid of being vulnerable, and he seeks adventure because it distracts him a bit from his loneliness, and because, deep down he hopes that in his quests, he'll either find some way to be happy, or die.

How'd I do?

>>9953695
Yeah, I know. Didn't see how it could be, so I thought the question was metaphorical, somehow.

No, it's a Russian book about an unmanned mission to the moon which is actually secretly manned, sending cosmonauts to their death in a suicide mission.

>>9953706
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci6hWb8f1NE

i swear when anybody speaks french their patrish status goes up like ten fold

>>9953717
doesn't sound very fictiony.

>>9951570
It gets much better starting in the second book. And characterizations become FANTASTIC later on.

>>9952990
>the last chapter is the pair finding out that he can slam her shitter instead
Why the fuck aren't you writing this already?

>>9952450
thanks, sounds accurate from what I've heard
Anybody recommend any sci fi comps?

i have an idea for a book and want to start writing but i have never done anything like this before and it's so fucking intimidating.

how do i start

>>9953753
Just sit down and start writing. Write 500 words a day. Every day. Never miss it, even if you have to force yourself. Writing is a skill like any other, it has to be trained. You will suck absolute ass at first, but keep doing it anyway.

Eventually, you'll realize your writing is no longer as terrible as you think it is. That's when you start writing your PROPER book.

>>9953753
Write a shitton, just do free writing. you can't do your magnus opus as your first project.
Then when you're ready to tackle that, write a rough draft, almost like free writing, then revise it literally tens of times.

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>tfw you think Dickson is a good source of pulp but you accidentally read The Last Starfighter except instead of a teenage gamer the protag is a mad painter with polio

>>9953780
>>9953810
thank you for the advice

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>>9953822

>>9953832
Best advice was already said.

Write every day. Even if you don't want to. Even if you're tired. Even if you forget and it's midnight. Write anyways.

1. This is good practice
2. You won't have to try and remember what you wrote and waste time going through it because it's only been 24 hours
3. You learn what you like and don't like about your how and where and when you write
4. Writing mush even if it sucks is a good way to find out what doesn't work and can make it easier to edit later on (well this was a good idea but the syntax sucks; this character is ok but needs to be introduced earlier, it makes no sense, etc)

>>9953545
thank you for giving me evidence that this book really exists and i'm not fucking insane.

>>9953677
>implying he is not
There's just as much Bakker posts as there is Wolfe posts and for some reason I find them even more annoying.

Is Snow Crash any good or is it as retarded as it sounds?

>>9954122
It is even more retarded.

>>9954193
A fun read though.

>>9954122
it revels in its retardery, it's supposed to be retarded. there's a credit card slider installed in cop cars. It's just taking the piss out of some interesting ideas.

>>9951790
Not a lot of 100 hour games out there these days and that's way less time than it takes to read 100 books anyway.

>implying there's hundreds of goof /sffg/ books anyway

>>9951374
>Always disappointed when a series you love is only a trilogy
>Always disappointed when a series you love goes to shit after book 3

I hate contradictory feels

>>9951829
Why would lacking emotion mean they don't use abbreviations or contractions? That's stupid.

The bigger question is why would someone with no emotions do anything at all. is it all involuntary and autonomic, like breathing?

>>9951931
>unaccented speech
There's literally no such thing, and even if there were, it would have nothing to do with emotion. What is this Star Trek shit.

>>9951494

I, also, am to smart to be successful

>>9952954
>>Achieve fame and success in your own country but not in other countries
He was famous in other European countries. Just not in English speaking ones. I do feel bad for him though.

>>9954214
I don't get this feel. Zero shits given when something turns to shit, it was good while it lasted. I'd be disappointed that I won't get more good shit, but the concept that it somehow tarnishes something is so stupid to me.

>>9953677
Because there's no controversy, all agree he is the Harbinger.

>pic
He had it coming. The Consult is right.

>>9951283
Failures with both permanent and temporary negative effects. Character flaws and less than ideal social interaction, with misunderstandings that are not corrected or spotted by the character...

>>9953708
It's a husk either way. Not sure if contemporary people can do better.

>>9953708
>>9951364
I want to give a try as well.

Mary Sue: Can kill an army with his sword and everyone wants to suck his dick and thinks he's handsome and cool and kids stop him on the street to ask about his stories.

Not a Sue: Can kill an army with his sword but has a foreshadowed weakness that comes into play at the very end but he overcomes it and becomes a great lad.

>>9954260
Mary Sue: Can kill an army with his sword and instead of receiving accolades everyone that knows this occurred is horrified by the walking nuke and what he portends.

>>9954263
I meant *Not a Mary Sue

fuck

>>9954201
>>9954193
Thanks. It's obviously camp, but does the camp work? Or is it just some stupid gimmick like american gods?

>>9954229

It means you either have to
>Drop and erase the shit from your head-cannon, leaving the story unfinished
>Drop and accept that it went to shit, still leaving it unfinished
>Continue to suffer through it pointlessly and hate every minute of it and yourself for not dropping it

>>9954277
>drop and erase the shit from your headcannon
Doesn't mean that for me, it's fiction, the author doesn't control your perception more than you let them, that'd be the case with good books too either way.

>>9954213
>implying there's hundreds of goof /sffg/ books anyway
There are anon :3

>>9954266
desu i think you were correct the first time

as >>9953140 pointed out this edgyness make a mary sue as well

if side characters are terrified of the main guy that means that story is not over when he recieves his max level

this will kind of be cool if this character turns into an archvillian character but doesnt fix the mary sue problem

>>9954284
lol i love when you write the :3 face, it's so silly

>>9954287
>desu i think you were correct the first time
>as >>9953140 pointed out this edgyness make a mary sue as well
Only if the edgyness isn't a real problem for them.

>>9954280
>Doesn't mean that for me, it's fiction, the author doesn't control your perception more than you let them
In my head ASOIAF is already finished and Hot Pie is king.

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>>9954316

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>>9952256
>mfw I always research the suggestions that look interesting a bit before getting them
>mfw end up only reading the good ones

>>9951738

what about more mad-max/boy and his dog post-apoc? Or anybody have a top 3-5 post-apoc in general?

>>9954365
Uh oh, got ourselves a live one here.

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>>9954396
There's always pic related I suppose.
>>9954306
I aim to please :3

>>9953721
>yakubpost gets deleted

Does... does that mean it *isn't* science fiction?

>>9954411
They'll soon be teaching that in universities, lad.

>>9954408

ohh yeah I've been meaning to get that anyway, thanks for reminding me

>>9954421
np
IIRC the original novella is great, but the extra stuff added to pad it into a full novel is dumb.

I just started Discworld and I'm half way through The Colour of Magic.

Can someone post the Discworld flowchart of the different ways you can read the series?
Thanks in advance.

what do you guys think of the name of the wind? worth reading?

>>9954584
loved it. reread it like 3 times.

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>tfw stranded on planet of lesbian warrior molluscs
Where would we be without good ol' Jimmy B?

Any of you fantasy niggers read ''The First Law'' trilogy?

If so, whatd you think?

>>9951739
I love that picture. Lmao.

Why can't the Japanese write good stories? They remind me of 1960s scientists writing sci-fi. Robotic characters pretending to be people with boardgame plots.

Why is this thread a general ?
Does SF and fantasy really have such a bad rep on this board and/or is it just elitism ?
First time on /lit/ of course.

>>9954706
Yes, outer /lit/ read nothing but The Greeks(TM) and modernists.

>>9954706
Stops there being 8 different threads in the catalog asking "is X good?", and youre more likely to get a response this way

What else can you recommend in the vein of Peake, Zelazny, and Moorcock?

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>>9954345
>be your devil or your angle

>>9954706
Outer /lit/ is nothing but marxist scum that believe every book should be commie propaganda.

>>9954729
it's a meme you dip.

>>9954706
>>9954719
>>9954720
Far from first time on /lit/, but first time in the Sci-Fi thread. You cats are alright. If the rest of /lit/ managed to follow your example we'd contain all the James Joyce / Moby Dick / Gravity's Rainbow threads to one "dickhead general" thread where everyone could say nothing about the books they haven't read.

And I say that as a huge fan of the books in question. If Moby Dick discussions resembled what's going on here... christ, /lit/ would be good.

>>9952954
>also is a cunt

>>9954824
He's polish.

Rothfuss is never gonna release the last book. He knows that he'll never reach this level of relevance again and he wants to keep running his STUPID charities, so he'll keep stringing people along until no one cares anymore

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>>9954749
>implying that wouldn't be an improvement at this point

>>9954670
It's in my to-read stack. Heard it was edgy.

>>9954727
Eh, Wolfe

>>9954670
I liked it.
It's not high literature but it's pretty comfy

>>9954928
Thanks!

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>>9954706
>Why is this thread a general ?
So we can keep the filthy pretentious e/lit/ists out.

>>9951729
Book of the New Sun for sure. Wolfe is a genius.

hey guys, I was just wondering what Brandon Sanderson books you could recommend, my friend told me I should check him out

You can bash an orc with a battle-axe,
Beat a goblin to death with a rock.
You can crush a troll with a boulder roll,
Kill a kobold with a good hard knock.
The Kingsguard ain’t like t’other dwarves
We got balls like igneous rock.
We don’t got no fears, we don’t need no spears
We beat ’em down with a big hard cock!

>>9955196
None of them :^)

So I liked the first half 'Heroes Die' but the second half felt like an asspull. Are the sequels any good?

Also the book was recommended to me because I was looking for some ultraviolent fantasy, any suggestions?
No fag of thorns pls, that shit was lame.

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>>9955359
>I was looking for some ultraviolent fantasy

>>9955397
At least it's better than those fags who only try and read books for porn.

>>9955397
Oh fuck off, so what?

>>9955415
Heh nothing personal, kid.

>>9954727
Vance

>>9954670
very comfy read.

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>tfw ive read every good military sci fi book

any reccs lads? also is military fantasy a thing? the closest i can think of is that powdermage series which was ok.

>>9955517
Galaxy's Edge: Legionnaire

>>9955517
Marko Kloo's Frontlines series is good for self-published milSF. B.V. Larson is just trash.

You might like Django Wexler's Shadow Campaigns series. It's better written than Powder Mage IMO and sticks harder to the whole "French Revolution" setting. Adrian Tchaikovsky also wrote a stand-alone Napoleonic fantasy but I haven't read it. Glen Cook has the Insturmentalities of the Night series which has a lot of early modern military stuff at it's center.

Would also suggest the Aubrey-Maturin series even though it's just historic fiction because it's really good.

>>9955359
>Are the sequels any good?
book 2 is the best, 3&4 are strange cause they have some fucking around with time and reality. I like 'em but if you don't like the first two don't read em.

>>9955665
>B.V. Larson is just trash.
Wrong.

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>>9955517
Warchild by Karin Lowachee and it's sequels, Burndive and Cagebird
i'll keep shilling this series until more people read it damn it

>>9951491
Zelazny is amazing and a master of the short story form. For his novels, start with Lord of Light then read the first Amber series.

There was a definite decrease in quality in the '80s but he wrote a bunch of great novels and stories before then.

>>9955671
I just didn't like how Cain could talk his way out of pretty much every situation. I did like all of the characters, it felt really cool and epic. Not to mention the whole scifi and libertarian aspect to it. I might read the sequel later on.

What are some good sword and sorcery books with fabio on the cover?

>>9953780
>>9953810
>>9953991

i dont know if you are still here or not but i just wanted to let you know after i read your posts i sat down and was actually able to start my book. i've tried probably a dozen times but never actually managed to make anything stick. I managed to crank out about a page and a half that i felt was good enough not to delete. it felt great to get it started, even if it is shit. thanks.

>tfw you think Horror should be added to the general because once upon a time all three genres were woven together and it should be that way again

>>9955517
A Small Colonial War by Robert Frezza. A mostly-Finish unit of mercenaries is sent to put down a Boer uprising on a Japanese owned colony world. Basically think Hammer's Slammers but focused on COIN instead of armor tactics. And more lighthearted at times.

>For pigs who like to whistle, like to whistle while they work

>>9955961
Sure why not, David Drake wrote a bunch of horror when he got back from Vietnam, before he started writing fantasy and then milSF.

Battle royale books? Sort of like a death games? Yeah like hunger games but mature and hopefully more violent.

>>9951570
the fan artwork for malazan is better than malazan. I couldn't make it past book 4.

>>9954670

Joe Abercrombie is my boy, his writing improves by leaps and bounds in the books after those too.

>>9955517
Some guy once wrote books about Marines magically teleported into a fantasy world. I think it was called DemonTek or something. It looked bad and this was like 20 years ago so I don't know.

>>9955517
So you've read no good military sci fi books? They're all juvenile machismo written by manchildren and it's terrible.

>>9955961
Spooky things make me cry so no.

>>9956511
I wish I had served in the military, there's so many ex military dudes with a hard on for that kinda shit.

>>9956635
Nice try, tumblr.

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This series is great. Fuck the cuck haters.

>>9956680
>cuck haters
Do you mean the mc gets cucked or do you mean the people who hate it are cucks?

>>9956684
>do you mean the people who hate it are cucks?
There you go.

>>9955517

What exactly do you mean by military fantasy? Don't many fantasy novels have large-scale war in them? I'm interested in the genre based on just the name, so any recommendations or clarifications on what you mean would be appreciated.

>>9956680
It's shit. You only like that fag Teddy Beale because he's /pol/ in blog form. Fuck off.

>>9956754
See: >>9956675

>>9955517
The gold standard of military fantasy is the Black Company. Read this before anything else.
Malazan has a lot of army stuff, imo they are the best parts of the series, unfortunately it has lots of filler and misery porn too.

What's some good heroic fantasy with a dash of horror? Think Lieber, Howard, Moorcock, but maybe more contemporary than most of their stuff, and maybe a little deeper than your average sword & sorcery.

anyone here read Carl Sagan's Contact? what do you guys think? Im thinking of reading it.

>>9956680
Pdfs where, the cover art and accusations of /pol/ have caught my interest.

>>9956904
Aspect Emperor. But it's the second series in an existing franchise so you'd have to get through a decidedly a trilogy with a different tone first.

>>9956921
It's pretty meh. Mary Sue protagonist, bland characters, banal and preachy plot. No real interesting ideas.

>>9956680
How did the editing in the second book hold up?

>>9956937
hmm I don't like mary sue protags. Do you know other books about first contact? I've read only solaris.

>>9956945
The Mote in God's Eye
Blindsight
Embassytown
His Master's Voice
Out of the Silent Planet

All very different, by the way. Mote is the most "straightforward" one.

>>9956949
my library had His Master's Voice only but I borrowed The Cyberiad also. Thanks for recs.

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I enjoyed it for what it was. I'm currently waiting for the Sea of Skulls hardcover release before I start reading it. Have you read the early e-book release? Impressions?

>>9957089
Was a reply to >>9956680

Speaking of Vox Day, here's his list of "best epic fantasy authors":

JRR Tolkien
Stephen Donaldson (Covenant)
Margaret Weis & Terry Hickman (Dragonlance)
David Eddings (Belgariad)
Glen Cook
Steven Erikson
Raymond Feist
George RR Martin
Joe Abercrombie
CS Friedman
Tad Williams
Daniel Abraham
Brandon Sanderson
R. Scott Bakker
Mark Lawrence
Terry Brooks
Robert Jordan
Terry Goodkind

>Obviously, your mileage may vary, as may what you consider to be "epic fantasy". I would have Susan Cooper, Lloyd Alexander, Tanith Lee, and Anne McCaffrey all ranked above Dragonlance, but their work is better categorized in other categories.

I think he's smoking crack to put Terry Brooks and Lawrence above Jordan (who I don't even particularly like). That said, Vox cares way more about fantasy than I do. He usually has pretty good opinions about the SFF.

>>9957117
Is that list ranked?

>>9956675
So you have to be a developmentally stunted proto-chad to not be tumblr?

>>9955858
Good job, bud. Now do it again tmw. And the next day.

Doesn't matter if it's shit, just keep it up. You'll only get better

>>9955858
All your future accomplishments are now by extension mine.

>>9957142
Yes

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>>9957117
I mean it's not a bad list.

>>9957142
Found this

>>9953753
Also, finish what you start.

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>>9957176

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>>9957159
"Manchildren"

>>9957184
yeah cause there's no such thing as manchildren because tumblr overuses the term.

>>9957117
this dude is wrong. where is Wolfe?

>>9957232
Stop replying to these faggy shills for fuck sake.

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>>9953580
His novella Prince of Gosplan (1991) is pure cyberpunk and completely shits on anything Gibson has wrote sice the 80s. The rest of his works are more like a pretensious surrealistic reaction to current events and lose relevancy very fast.
However, S.N.U.F.F. (2011) is pure sci-fi and the best in a decade. Basically it's a very poitical parody of the modern world and despite being 6 years old becomes more and more relevant.
The setting: far future. We have 2 factions: Big Byzantium or Big Biz is an artificial planetoid orbiting Earth, were the rich and wealthy live. This is essencialy The West, they have money, they have the highest technologies possible and are quickly degenerating hedonistic society of pricks. They live for thousands of ears and people who fuck people under 46 are considered as pedophiles.
The second faction is Urkain (that's right Urkain) this is the whole planet Earth. Urkain is populated by Orks and Big Biz does not consider them humans, though no significant differences between Orks and Humans are indicated. Orks live in almost stone age era, they have no technologies and live in an extreme poverty. Also Urkain is almost constantly in a state of war, revolutions rebellions, genocides etc. Almost all of them are instigated by Big Biz for the purpose of making "news".
MC of the book is a "newsmaker" in a Big Biz. He operates a camera drone and makes news about constant conflicts in Urkain. These news are the only form of entertainment for Big Biz population. The problem is that camera drones have a shit ton of weapons and "The News" consist of a drone flying around Urkaine and killing Orks by the hundreds. That's why it's called S.N.U.F.F.
The second plot line is about MC's robo-waifu with "bitchiness" parameter at maximum and tells how men tend to love women the more women hurt them.

>>9957261
They live for thousands of years*

>>9957254
>>9957232
I'm not a shill I don't even know who this guy is. Just looked up the list other anon posted.

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>>9957232
Wolfe is a class of his own.

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>>9956511
>books about Marines magically teleported into a fantasy world
Not this? Because this was recent than 20 years.

>>9957176
This list is okay but the ranking really seems arbitrary and has nothing to do with quality. Especially with /tg/: The Book Series and Gurm that high up.

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>>9957176
>The Red Knight, Cameron
rrrrrreeeeeeee

>>9957352
I live for the day I can meme you into reading something you hate.

>>9954869
Yeah, at this point he has probably forgotten any and all ideas he had for the story and even if he wanted to he couldn't finish the series. He waited too long. He's no longer the same person who wrote the original books. He's spent years as a shallow, convention-hopping socialite instead of being an author.

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>>9957395
>socialite

>>9957232
I long for the day Gene Wolf becomes a super popular author just so all the hipsters in this thread will turn against him, finally.

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>>9957406
Explain how this definition doesn't apply to somebody who does nothing but attend conventions and parties and hobnob with the famous and influential people in his industry. I doubt there is a single major figure in the SFF world that Rothfuss has not shmoozed up at a party somewhere.

>>9957416
Me too, he deserves to be read.
>>9957406
Why do you keep posting this? are you under the impression that he thinks that's cool clothing to wear or something? you're like the retard that doesn't understand self-deprecation and then points out the implied insult as if you're being insightful. That's the joke.

>>9954670
Everything went downhill after the first book. Suffered through the second and didn't bother with the last one.

>>9957395
actually he finished the book long ago, he's been revising it for years. that's his process.

>>9956945
>Do you know other books about first contact?
Childhood's End

>>9957368
It's already been done..
>red knight
>buried giant
>thomas covenant
>dhalgren
And many others I can't recall atm. This general recs both good and bad. If they look interesting I read, then I make anti shill memes if they suck.

>>9955800
>What are some good sword and sorcery books with fabio on the cover?
Try the "Gor" Series by John Norman. More swords, sorcery and lusty maidens who enjoy being sexually dominated by muscly heroes than the average Joe can even imagine. Tarnsman of Gor is the first book in a very very long series.

>>9956904
Try this >>9957509

/lit/, I have stored around 15.000 scifi and fantasy books on my computer. Most of it old and hard to find stuff. Should I make a torrent?

>>9957531
Yeah. What's the size?

>>9957532
5,85 Gigabyte altogether. It used to be nothing but .txt files in 25 alphabetically sorted directories, but I moved all the better known fantasy and scifi authors into two separate folders containing subfolders with the authors names. That means I now have a top notch fantasy folder, a top notch science fiction folder and the original 25 alphabetically sorted folders with mostly mediocre stuff. What should I post first?

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>"gritty" post-GRRM fantasy
>has a teenaged female POV
>her chapters are all YA shit about dresses and boys

every time

>>9957500
You didn't like Thomas? Why? I haven't read it yet no spoilers please

>>9957583
Fantasy, obviously.

What format?

Did you know? I have met Isaac Asimov's nephew very recently. A random encounter.

>>9957602
did you kiss?

>>9957595
It's about 90+% .txt, but some EPUB, mobi and RTF is also included.

So, if I have understood this correctly, I just post the magnet URI of the directory here, right? Let me know if this works:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3CC0E1D3FFF491051E03E654128B544B142A818B&dn=Fantasy&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.opentrackr.org%3a1337%2fannounce

>>9957594
>You didn't like Thomas? Why?
>I haven't read it yet no spoilers please
Then read the fugging book. Why ask why something sucks, yet you don't want spoilers?

>>9957509
>Try the "Gor" Series
This

The nubile tanned woman cringed as her owner brought forth an erect penis. "I am a nubile woman!" She cried indignantly. "How dare you sex me before my time! Guards!" She called. "Guards!"

Borin, her owner, placed one hand on his penis, and the other on the table and looked at her. "You will be fucked" he said.

"You do not dare to sex me!" laughed the woman, her oiled tan lines gleaming in the low light.

"You will be fucked," said Borin.

"Do not sex me!" wept the plant.

"You will be fucked," said Borin.

I watched this exchange. Truly, I believed the woman would be fucked. She was a woman, and on Gor she had no rights. Perhaps on Earth, in its permissive society, which distorts the true roles of all beings, which forces both woman and owner to go unhappy and constrained, which forbids the fulfillment of owner and woman, such might not happen. Perhaps there, it would not be fucked. But it was on Gor now, and would undoubtedly feel its true place, that of woman. It was female. It would be fucked at will. Such is the way with women.

Borin guided his penis, and muchly fucked the woman. The woman cried out. "No, Master! Do not fuck me!" The master continued to fuck the woman. "Please, Master," begged the tan nubile, "do not fuck me!" The master continued to fuck the woman. It was female. It could be fucked at will.

The supple female sobbed muchly as Borin extracted his penis. It was not pleased. Too, it was wet and sore. But this did not matter. It was female.

"You have been well fucked," said Borin.

"Yes," said the female, "I have been well fucked." Of course, it could be fucked by its master at will.

"I have fucked you well," said Borin.

"Yes, master," said the female. "You have fucked your woman well. I am female, and as such I should be fucked by my master."

The older woman next to the nubile supple tanned woman shuddered. She attempted to cover her small form with her small frail arms and small hands. "I am female," she said wonderingly. "I am of Earth, but for the first time, I feel myself truly womanlike. On Earth, I was able to control my fucking. I often scorned those who would fuck me. But they were weak, and did not see my scorn for what it was, the weak attempt of a small older woman to protect herself. Not one of the weak Earth owners would dare to fuck a female if she did not wish it. But on Gor," she shuddered, "on Gor it is different. Here, those who wish to fuck will fuck their women as they wish. But strangely, I feel myself most womanlike when I am at the mercy of a strong Gorean master, who may fuck me as he pleases."

"I will now fuck you," said Borin, the older woman's Gorean master.

The mature beauty did not resist being fucked. Perhaps she was realizing that such fucking was its master's to control. Too, perhaps she knew that this master was far superior to those of Earth, who would not fuck her if she did not wish to be fucked.

>>9957594
The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant are astounding works of fantasy. I wouldn't say the same about the Last Chronicles.

That said, nearly everyone who dislikes the series think that Covenant is either an insufferable whiner, or just a terrible person to read about in general. Additional, Donaldson goes full thesaurus on the series.

>>9957653
Senpai, please, stop posting this one. The original plant version is far funnier.

>>9957594
It's not lighthearted, but it's good. Just read the first and you'll know if the rest of it will be worth it for you.

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>>9957589
>reading Daniel Abraham after being told not to multiple times
>thought it was just a meme

>>9957644
Just wondering if it was based on plot, pace, character development or whatever

Why so angry? I'll probably read it anyways, just being curious.

>>9957657
Makes sense

>>9957662
Thanks

>>9957659
If someone else posted it. I wouldn't have to. The original anon who posted the plant excerpt has apparently stopped coming.
So it's up to me now. If no one posts the spider plant, I will post my nubile woman.

>>9957663
Lookahere froggymuhboi. Yah c'n pozt yer uhdda lizdz anyol'time, buh dis'n ovehnds alluhs honis fulk.

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>>9957659
>>9957509
>>9957653

>>9957663
I don't even understand this list or who it's supposed to piss off.

>>9957693
Top meme

Houseplants of Gor
Elle


The spider plant cringed as its owner brought forth the watering can. "I am a spider plant!" it cried indignantly. "How dare you water me before my time! Guards!" it called. "Guards!"
Borin, its owner, placed the watering can on the table and looked at it. "You will be watered," he said.
"You do not dare to water me!" laughed the plant.
"You will be watered," said Borin.
"Do not water me!" wept the plant.
"You will be watered," said Borin.
I watched this exchange. Truly, I believed the plant would be watered. It was plant, and on Gor it had no rights. Perhaps on Earth, in its permissive society, which distorts the true roles of all beings, which forces both plant and waterer to go unhappy and constrained, which forbids the fulfillment of owner and houseplant, such might not happen. Perhaps there, it would not be watered. But it was on Gor now, and would undoubtedly feel its true place, that of houseplant. It was plant. It would be watered at will. Such is the way with plants.
Borin picked up the watering can, and muchly watered the plant. The plant cried out. "No, Master! Do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. "Please, Master," begged the plant, "do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. It was plant. It could be watered at will.
The plant sobbed muchly as Borin laid down the watering can. It was not pleased. Too, it was wet. But this did not matter. It was plant.
"You have been well watered," said Borin.
"Yes," said the plant, "I have been well watered." Of course, it could be watered by its master at will.
"I have watered you well," said Borin.
"Yes, master," said the plant. "You have watered your plant well. I am plant, and as such I should be watered by my master."
The cactus plant next to the spider plant shuddered. It attempted to cover its small form with its small arms and small needles. "I am plant," it said wonderingly. "I am of Earth, but for the first time, I feel myself truly plantlike. On Earth, I was able to control my watering. I often scorned those who would water me. But they were weak, and did not see my scorn for what it was, the weak attempt of a small plant to protect itself. Not one of the weak Earth waterers would dare to water a plant if it did not wish it. But on Gor," it shuddered, "on Gor it is different. Here, those who wish to water will water their plants as they wish. But strangely, I feel myself most plantlike when I am at the mercy of a strong Gorean master, who may water me as he pleases."
"I will now water you," said Borin, the cactus's Gorean master.
The cactus did not resist being watered. Perhaps it was realizing that such watering was its master's to control. Too, perhaps it knew that this master was far superior to those of Earth, who would not water it if it did not wish to be watered.

>>9957716
The cactus's watering had been finished. The spider plant looked at it.
"I have been well watered," it said.
"I, too, have been well watered," said the cactus.
"My master has watered me well," said the spider plant.
"My master, too, has watered me well," said the cactus.
"I am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the spider plant.
"I, too, am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the cactus.
"I wish you well," said the spider plant.
"I, too, wish you well," said the cactus.
"Tal," said the spider plant.
"Tal, too," said the cactus.
I did not think that the spider plant would object to being watered by its master again. For it realized that it was plant, and that here, unlike on Earth, it was likely to be owned and watered by many masters.
By Elle, who has read far too many Gor books and taken far too many finals to be allowed to run rampant on a computer.

>>9957687
>Lookahere froggymuhboi. Yah c'n pozt yer uhdda lizdz anyol'time, buh dis'n ovehnds alluhs honis fulk.
Look here froggy my boy. You can post your other lists any old time, but this one ?????????????

>>9957696
>everything on 4chins is about pissing off people

>>9957721
>>9957716
rather the rapey one
plants aren't sexy

>>9957616
What, only one taker so far?

>>9957759
I'm at work my man. I will later for sure.

>>9957761
same

>>9957722
>?????????????
"offends all us honest folk"

>>9957716
>>9957721
Thank you.
>>9957731
I see we have an uncultured swine about.

File: 15179324._SX540_[1].jpg (57KB, 540x319px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 540x319px

Should I start with "The Crown Tower" first?
Or Theft of Swords?
Are they written to be read in publication order, or are the later books written so you can start there?

>>9957954
The general rule is always publication order.

>>9951980
a shit.

>>9954701
>Robotic characters pretending to be people
So Japanese people writing Japanese people.

>>9955858
I'm glad to help. Don't let that feeling fade, and even if it does, power through it. Keep writing until it becomes habit. Systems > Goals. Good luck!

>>9956680
>sequel has no physical copy
NOT READING WITHOUT BOOK IN HAND

>>9957232
you want to look up the "worst epic fantasy authors", i'm sure you'll find him there

>>9958170
sick burn bro.

>>9957726
>lots of the books are very popular on sffg and the world in general
>picture implies that this is a curated or polled sffg opinion
>It had no inflammatory or misleading intentions behind it.

>>9957159
>proto-chad
Tumblr really misses you. Please go back.

>>9958841
shut up you shirtlord.

>>9957416
You do realise we like Tolkien just as much even though he is just about as popular and mainstream a fantasy author can be? Wolfe should be more popular frankly, he's one of the few that deserves it.

>>9957616
grabbing it now thanks again bruv

>inb4 your trojan steals my porn stash

>>9958878
Haven't read anything by him yet and was about to begin The Wizard Knight...

Should I have started with The Solar Cycle?

>>9958946
>>9958946
>>9958946
New Thread

>>9958921
While The Solar Cycle is his best work imho it's better to ease into it so that you can appreciate it fully. The Wizard Knight, The Fifth Head of Cerberus, Peace and The Devil in a Forest are all very good introductions to Wolfe.