/sffg/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy General

The Magician King>The Magicians< The Magician's Land

Prove me wrong

>anon praised Wolfe fans for taking criticism in a reasonable way
>thread is full of Wolfe fans getting mad over criticism
Top kek, Wolfe is a great writer but his die hard fans are autistic retards.

>>9587147
What are you talking about? We barely talked about Wolfe last thread

>>9587170
Every instance of criticism, was it the characterization of women in BotNS or him sometimes going overboard with his prose was met with
>no u
>plebian

>>9587185
>him sometimes going overboard with his prose
Wolfe doesn't go overboard with prose. Or at the very least I never had any trouble reading his books. I don't know what everyone else thinks about his prose
>characterization of women in BotNS
No one mentioned this at all

Daily reminder:
There are people here right now that consider asoiaf to be among the greatest works of fantasy literature.

And anons wondered why the rest of lit looks down at /sffg/

Is it normal to find the descriptions of the environment in the Lord of the Rings difficult to follow? It's difficult for me to envision the landscapes being described because I dont have sufficient knowledge of a lot of these terms used to describe woodlands and tree/rock formations etc.

Also I think the elves just set up a feast in the woods which is not something I expected from the films.

>tfw there are no sff lit that can compete with battle shonen

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>>9587110
Is this any good? I've heard its gotten great attention but I hardly hear any hype or anyone being a big fan of it.

>>9587198
>Is it normal to find the descriptions of the environment in the Lord of the Rings difficult to follow
LOTR and The Hobbit are made so that kids can understand them.

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>Look for paperback version of Beren and Lúthien on Amazon
>release date 3rd of May
3rd of May 2018

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beren-L%C3%BAthien-J-R-Tolkien/dp/0008214220/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1496436318&sr=8-1

Why?

>>9587216
Not completely true. LotR can be quite difficult to read for a non-native speaker. Its language is much more difficult than most of modern fantasy books.

>>9587196
at least we can agree asoiaf is trash

>>9587195

>No one mentioned this at all

Wat. That's been a recurring theme in the past three or four generals. Are you even paying attention?

>>9587196

>fantasy """literature"""

And you dare call me the pleb. Amazing.

>>9587216

Not really. Chances are you are a NEET with absolutely no experience in outdoors travel and/or basic fauna. And English might be your second language, which only makes it worse.

I had the same problem when I read LotR as a kid, because English isn't my first language, and all those plants and geographical descriptors went way past my head.

But as a well-read adult you have no excuse.

>>9587213
I'm not sure exactly, but I'll say that if you ever buy any Hubbard books you should only get them secondhand so the profits of a new sale don't fund the Church of Scientology.

>>9587167
How do expect people to take you seriously when you think that a few good chapters in novels where most chapters are garbage makes those novels good?

are there any science fiction or fantasy books that are actually good other than dune or the hobbit

>>9587196
> asoiaf to be among the greatest works of fantasy literature.
But GRRM doesn't go into detail about tax plans so how can it be good

Can I get a recommendation? I'm looking for an epic fantasy series that doesn't split its point of view between several characters and locations. Ideally, I'd like it to follow a single character or group of characters that travel together. Everything I've read will eventually jump around the map or have the group split up for way too fucking long.

>>9587221
So you have time to reconsider buying a blatant cashgrab.

>>9587253
>are there any science fiction or fantasy books that are actually good other than dune or the hobbit
You could read The Hobbit's sequel? Other than Tolkien you could try Vance, Peake, or Wolfe. Also did you try Howard's Conan yet?

>>9587263
The Belgariad

>>9587241

I was writing my reply before the thread died. First of all, I don't think there's much bad there apart from the Daenerys chapters, which are cringy-worthy, I agree. The Martell stuff may or may not be bad depending on what Martin does with it in the future. Considering books 4/5 are basically one book, and basically starting over after the crescendo of Storm of Swords, I'm not so quick to judge.

Though I enjoy a lot of stuff others seem to hate, like the Brienne chapters which I found insanely comfy, and I tend to agree with Preston that there's much more going on behind the scenes. If you only read the books once and have no vested interest in the series, I can see how they would suck ass for you. I thought so too when they came out, but having reread them thrice, I've changed my mind.

>>9587253

Bakker is literally Tolkien+Herbert. Go read The Prince of Nothing.

>>9587263

Not exactly fantasy... but I'm reading Taiko right now and it's basically exactly that.

>>9587276
Thanks, m8. I'm surprised I never heard of it before. Reading some reviews and it sounds bretty gud.

>>9587110
If I wanted to get into The Culture should I start Consider Phlebas? Or is there a book before it?

>>9587276
Personal opinion coming through, The Belgariad is literally the worst piece of fantasy I've ever read.

>>9587282
>Considering books 4/5 are basically one book, and basically starting over after the crescendo of Storm of Swords, I'm not so quick to judge.
When you combine both books you get 2186 pages. GRRM barely did anything those pages.

>>9587296
>When you combine both books you get 2186 pages
Jesus. The entire LOTR trilogy is 1216 pages. Does GRRM not have an editor?

>>9587292
Could you tell us why?

>>9587292
It's entry level fantasy but it's decent.

Why do so many fantasy authors create elaborate worlds and then insist on dumping all that info into their novels? Wouldn't it make more sense to add appendices (similar to what Tolkien did) or write a separate "history" book as a companion piece?

>>9587314
I hate conlang too

>>9587216
Once again, I am talking about the descriptions of the topography. The rest is simple.

Why does Goodreads let people review and rate books that aren't even out yet? As if the site wasn't shitty enough already.

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>>9587110
better get this over with

>>9587263
Amber

>>9587332
>wants the reader to do his work for him
Pathetic

>>9587304
This was quite a long time ago but it felt so infantile, like everything escalated all the time as if the writer had to prove that he could come up with even more badass stuff all the time. If I remember correctly basically every fighting force was introduced as the best in the world and some enemy force fielded absolute absurd numbers, like a million fighters or so.

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>>9587327
Goodreads is garbage don't bother with it. pic related is the average goodreads user

>>9587213
It is absolute trash. Worth reading for historical significance only.

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>>9587296

>GRRM barely did anything those pages.

I'm not going to pretend they weren't soft on plot-pushing, but it could be that they're just a setup for what's to come. I choose to remain optimistic. Martin started off with a trilogy when ASoIaF began and then changed his mind. Whatever turn-around he has planned is big enough that he needed a lot of bullshit established in order to set it up properly. I mean, the show pretty much did away with all of this stuff altogether. It either omitted characters outright or just killed them.

So, yeah, I guess it's a matter of how you want to see it. If you're a pessimist and you think he's a hapless moron that got himself too bogged down to come out of it and he's only waiting to die, then the last two books are just a slog and you're better off waiting for the show to draw a conclusion. But if you have faith that the man can deliver (or could, at least in theory) then I don't think they're all that bad.I used to hate them until Preston Jacobs opened my eyes and showed me that there's too much elaborate stuff in there for it all to be mindless fuckery (though I don't subscribe to all his mad theories).

I think the main reason people hate these books so much is because Martin has change as a person since the original trilogy. I think he's matured (presumably a bit too late?), and that can clearly be seen from the tone he takes in many of these later chapters. Jaime's chapters and Theon's are definitely not the fucking tone for fantasy. So trying to weave that into what is essentially a simple fantasy tale can't be easy. Chances are it's going to be an epic disaster (if he ever finishes).

But we can continue this conversation tomorrow. It's past midnight here and I need to sleep.

>>9587263
The Eye of Argon

>>9587352
But didn't it go from a trilogy to needing a fourth book and then a fifth and then a sixth and seventh? The man's a fucking glutton is all

>>9587352
I'm not a fan so I couldn't care less if GRRM finished the series or not

>>9587352
Nothing can justify a 1000 page novel where nothing happened

Anyone read CL Moore? Considering picking up an omnibus that has Jirel of Joiry, Northwest of Earth, Judgment Night.

>>9587216
LOTR and The Hobbit were made so that kids from decades ago could understand them. Language evolves.

>>9587354
>76 pages
>science fiction
>published in a fanzine by a teenager
>the "The Room" of sci-fi fiction
yeah, no thanks, but have a (You) for contributing

>>9587359

No, not really. Most of the stuff being covered now bears no relation whatever to what was planned originally. The Martells weren't even mentioned as far as I can remember, same with other characters that will likely end up being important later on like the Tattered Prince, etc. The trilogy would've ended at Storm of Swords by concluding with the set of characters he started with originally. I think Jaime was supposed to end up as king, while Jon and Arya became lord and lady of Winterfell. Whatever, it's up there somewhere if you're interested.

>>9587366

That's a gross exaggeration and it only shows that you aren't paying attention. I'm not going to pull a Malazan and accuse you of being a brainlet, but you seriously are either misremembering or don't give enough of a shit about the series to appreciate all of the developments that took place in the last two books. I'd argue more things happened in either than in CoK.

>>9587374
It's a meme book like Sanderson and Bakker novels

>>9587379
>teenager writes a shitty book and decades later people shit on him for it
I feel sorry for the guy

>>9587314
Because they do all that shitty world building for years then forget they actually need a story so use all the exposition to pad it out.

>>9587378
>That's a gross exaggeration and it only shows that you aren't paying attention
Those shitty books could have easily been half their respective lengths but I guess when you're famous you don't have to bother with the editorial process

>>9587404
this. he should have stuck with a more focused view on the main narrative and combined all those cut out chapters into a sidestory to be published after the series is over

If you can't tell your story within 4 books at most then you might as well not even tell it.

>>9587399
Malazan?

Speaking of world building, are there any fictional history books that do away with the narrative altogether?

>>9587415
> If you can't tell your story within 2 books at most then you might as well not even tell it.
Trilogy was a mistake.

>>9587415
>If you can't tell your story within 4 books at most then you might as well not even tell it.
There's something worse that GRRM and others like Rothfuss do which is that they write too many pages. For example this anon mentioned>>9587302. Yeah the entire LOTR trilogy is about the same length as one ASoIaF novel.

>>9587302
There are no more good editors.

>>9587439
What a terrible excuse

>>9587439
what do the editors of famous authors even really do? those authors can publish whatever they want and it'll sell, especially when they're still writing the series and it's been years since an anticipated release

>>9587415
Tell that to Sanderson and his "planned" 10 book epic. I don't he realizes that the authors who write that many books for one series usually don't plan too. I expect he's going to extend his epic fantasy series soon

Hey lads, I'm writing a story loosely based on D&D and I've ran into an issue. I can't describe shit worth a damn. Can someone recommend me a book to help fix it? Currently reading "The elements of style"

>>9587488
Are you saying that you can't find the words to describe what you see in your mind or that you just don't know what to describe? In either case just write your first draft and work on that in the editing part. Proofreaders can be very helpful if you have someone who you can show your work to.

>>9587379
Is this bait? Sanderson is amazing.

>>9587522
>Sanderson is amazing.
How much does he pay you for shilling anon?

>>9587542
one cummy in tummy per post

>>9587289
Culture books are standalone books in the same universe and they can be read in pretty much any order. Consider Phlebas and the Player of Games are the usual starting points.

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Are there any fantasy books with a young homo protagonist that aren't completely awful?

Asking for a friend

>>9587638
>when you're licking Casper's asshole and his ghost friend pokes you in the back of the head with his dick

wolfe write realistic women
word.

>>9587213
I thought it was pretty dumb, and it's monstrously long.

Any science fiction/fantasy novels that are literally anime in novel form?

>>9588138
Sanderson

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What's /sffg/'s opinion on the Three-Body Problem series?

I read the first two books and enjoyed them, but I still need to read the third book.

>>9588185
The third one has really interesting ideas and that's what saves it, because Liu has the most unbearably awful trainwreck of a female protagonist I've ever encountered fumbling her way through the whole book. but I still think it was worth the read.

>>9587638
Quest for Lost Heroes has a gay couple protags in it, but the gayness is so subtle they really come across more as the bestest friends ever who decided to spend the rest of their lives together and share a bed. They're not the main protags though, but it's an example of how to have fags in fantasy that isn't cringey as fuck.

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>>9587404

>Those shitty books could have easily been half their respective lengths but I guess when you're famous you don't have to bother with the editorial process.

Keep moving goalposts, friend. What you said was that nothing happened, not that it could have been condensed. Of course, it can fucking be revised, condensed, and ultimately improved. Anything can.

>>9587433

Are you seriously comparing Martin to Rothfuss? Tell me, in what ways is the main narrative furthered In the Name of the Wind? Bad guys kill his family, they're mentioned a few more times in the first quarter, and then it ends on a cliffhanger just as he's about to learn more, some 500p later. Yeah, that totally sounds like ASoIaF.

And what the fuck kind of nonsense argument is that about LotR? Apart from the fact that they're both considered fantasy by normies, there's nothing connecting the two. Nothing. There's a reason LotR is short, and that's because it barely has any characterization and intrigue. You could go one step further and cut away every topographical description and interaction that directly isn't plot-related. By your standards, that should be a better book. Fuck what Tolkien wanted. Not like the guy knew what he was writing down or anything. Nah, it must just be a lack of editing, bruv. Fuck dem trees and shit nigga. Give me a story, amirite?

And this is why these arguments are so pointless. Who are you to decide what goes and what doesn't go into a work? I can think of very few books where it's absolutely clear the author has no idea what he's doing and we're just slogging around filling a quota. And it's impossible to make an argument until the work is completed, at which point you can see if and how everything ties in.

Take the Brienne chapters in AFfC. Many people think they're pointless. They're not, because they're providing a lot of world-building in huge chunks (which is directly relevant to what's to come in the Connington and Aegon part), and giving you a feel of Westeros outside of the capital and after everything that's happened. The only thing you can argue is that Martin should've chosen expediency and simply info-dumped everything in a single chapter, no matter how painful. Which is, again, a matter of taste and principles.

It goes without saying that all of these books could be improved and that there's fat you could trim off. But there isn't nearly as much of it as you think. And making comparisons between ASoIaF and LotR, or making the amount of pages one takes the main criteria for judging a series is fucking dumb.

Robert E. Howard is better than Tolkien

I WANNA READ TUC I WANNA I WANNA I WANNA

Can fantasy be effectively spliced with horror or do the fantastical settings remove the feeling of horror for readers?

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>>9588138

>>9588967

I don't even get this question. Aren't most horror stories fantasy?

>>9588956

No way. His world-building is shit, and the dialogue is some of the worst in fantasy.

>inb4 muh pulp

Not an argument.

>>9588986
t. hasn't read Howard

>>9588999

I have. Not everything, but enough to form an opinion. What do you think is the single best Conan story, hmm? Which one of them is so amazing that it proves once and for all that he's the superior author in every way? Many times his dialogue is used to info-dump. So exciting.

And the world-building aspect isn't even debatable. My version starts off with an introduction of Howard giving a brief history of the setting, and I have no doubt in my mind that the franchise as a whole would have been better off without it.

>>9587196
>There are people here right now that consider asoiaf to be among the greatest works of fantasy literature.
It's just an above average fantasy series that became shit after the third book

>>9587613
Thank you!

>>9588986
He means could you write a horror story but in fantasyland, or would it being in fantasyland lessen the impact of the horror.

IMO it's like comedic scifi/fantasy and comes down to the author, horror is really more of a tone regardless of if it's a story about a modern day town with a terrible secret or some knights unknowingly entering a cursed castle.

>>9588138
Garth Nix, maybe?

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>>9588138
The scifi/fantasy light novels that were adapted into anime?

>>9588928
grrm and Rothfuss pad their prose and that's a valid argument. Tolkien did not.

about to start Dune what should i expect?

a co-worker recommended greg egan with the caveat that's he's better at science and world-building than character development. i think he suggested that i start with his short stories; i read the first couple chapters of "schild's ladder."

i'm into stylish and weird stuff like dick and gibson, so should i start with "permutation city" like your flowcharts suggest, or should i read his stories?

>>9589171
Something not that well written but with scope, crazy ideas and ambition. There are better things you could be reading but it's good nerd history.

>>9587418
Nah malazan doesnt have much exposition or filler except for book8

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>>9589207

>Nah malazan doesnt have much exposition or filler except for book8

>>9589226
not an argument.

Going on holiday for nearly three months and taking a stack of lit with me, figured I'd need more /sffg/ since all I've got is Wolfe's New Sun.

Do I get Roadside Picnic or Hard to Be a God?

>>9589319
>Hard to Be a God?
I've never heard of this book but holy shit I'm going to download this now.

>>9588928
>(which is directly relevant to what's to come in the Connington and Aegon part),

>Thinks TWOW is ever going to come out

I've got some bad news for you anon...

What's some good fantasy about clever military tactics?

I gave up on american gods about half way through. Is it worth finishing?

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Is the Black Company series any good?

Thinking about diving in for my first fantasy book in a long time.

>>9589428

No. Hell no. Why are you still reading, anon? It's seriously NOT good.

>>9589431

I personally found it edgy in an anime way. There rife with all sorts of bad tropes. But considering how many people, it's probably best to try it out and see for yourself.

>>9589431
As someone who recently tried to read it (and posted about it in one of the other /sffg/ threads) I wanted to like it a lot, but the storytelling and prose weren't good enough to keep my reading. I dropped the first book near the end and don't plan on finishing it. It's a short book so give it a go if you want to see what it's like, but don't expect much from it.

>>9589319
if hard to be a god is anything like the movie it will be excellent

>>9589431
>frog grin.jpg

>>9589428
I liked it but probably not if you gave up on it.

>>9589410
KJ Parker maybe has some stuff like that in his novels.

>>9589459
>>9589333

Hard to Be a God it is then. Haven't seen the movie yet but the plot fascinates me a lot.

>>9587292
It's very basic, and kinda of a hack work. But it's an exellent hack work with (personally) very enjoyable characters but very basic plot. It's YA tough, so if you are in your twenties it would seem at times infantil as fuck. I agree with the other anon than the Author asspull lots of things, specially years and the cultural stagnation of everyone. The numbers aren't that far fetched once you see the land the Angaraks actually control tough, the ones than don't seem to have enough land for they numbers are the Tol Nedrans.

>>9589428
It's certainly not hard to finish. But if you don't like the first half you'll probably not enjoy the second half any better.

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>"Father Cabani comes in, closes his eyes, sh-shoves his hand into the hole.” Father Cabani looked at his hand. “He g-grabs it! Aha! An invention! This thing here is my invention, he says! And if you don’t believe it, you’re a fool. I shove my hand in—th-that’s one! What is it? Barbed wire! What’s it for? Protecting farmyards from the wolves … I shove my hand in—th-that’s two! What is it? The handiest thing—a meat grinder. What’s it for? Tender minced meat … good job! I shove my hand in—that’s three! What is it? F-?>Flammable water! What’s it for? Kindling damp wood … eh!”
>Father Cabani went quiet and began to slump, as if someone had grabbed his neck and was pushing him forward. Rumata picked up the stein, looked inside, then poured a few drops onto the back of his hand. The drops were purple and smelled of fusel oil. Rumata carefully wiped his hand with a lace handkerchief. Oil stains appeared on it. Father Cabani’s shaggy head touched the table and immediately jerked up.
>“The man who put it in the box—he knew what it was all for. Barbed wire for the wolves? How silly of me—for the wolves. The mines, the mines should be ringed with this wire … so state criminals can’t escape! But I don’t want that! I’m a state criminal myself! Did they ask me? Sure they did! Barbed wire, they said? Barbed wire. For the wolves, they said? For the wolves. Well done, they said, good job! We’ll use it to ring the mines … Don Reba did it himself. And he took my meat grinder. Good job, he said! What a mind you’ve got, he said! So now the Merry Tower makes tender minced meat … very effective, they say.”
Looks like the Strugatskys write kino day in, day out.

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What the fuck, did Scott Lynch literally lift this entire fucking scene from Hard to be a God?

>>9589633

>that horrifying e-reader with all that shit sticking out and the eye-burning white background

Do you fucking hate yourself?

>>9589637
I'll read non retail photographs of books printed onto toilet paper if it gives me my drug fix.

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>>9589639

But why would you intentionally make it hard on yourself? The Kindle app looks way better, and has a lot of options and functions. There's no reason not to use it. It takes a whole five seconds to convert an epub into a mobi.

Pic related, this is how mine is set up.

>>9589643
That actually looks really nice anon.

>>9589645

It does. Just download the Kindle app from Amazon, and make an account since that's necessary to get the built-in dictionary (it won't fuck with your pirated books, don't worry). Then convert any epub into mobi by using Calibre, and you're good to go. I've tried a lot of apps and I'm still sticking to the Kindle. Though I preferred the older version even more since it lacked that side bar you see there.

>>9589643
>The Fifth Head of Cerberus
Excellent work anon.

>>9589657

Yeah, an anon told me to read it and gave me that introduction to Wolfe by that YouTuber. Might have been you, I don't know.

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>>9589633
>>9589643

I was too lazy to figure out how to convert so I got calibre, also has a ton of customization that anyone can figure out. Like bacground color, size of the page, text, margins etc, I like the default kindle color so I just sampled that in paint for the color code.

>>9589699

I just use my Calibre as a converter. I think I spent half a day trying to get WriteMonkey to look like my Kindle, and after all of that effort, I still just open up a shitty Wordpad when I'm half-asleep and write that way.

>>9589643
>There's no reason not to use it.
It is not FOSS and made by a company with terrible business practices when it comes to eBooks.

>>9589650
>it won't fuck with your pirated books, don't worry
With 100% certainty, everytime you open (more likely it just scans your whole PC) a non-amazon ebook a report will be send to their servers and linked to your account.
And could possibly be used in a lawsuit against you.

Even if you don't give a single fuck about FOSS it should be common sense not to trust a billion dollar company (who are loosing millions to piracy) and giving them evidence for crimes (potentially harming that company) you committed.

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I really liked Troy from Dan Simmons. Is there anything else as crazy as this? I know about The Quantum Thief but the 3rd book isn't available in russian so it's incomplete experience.

>>9589742

>being this paranoid

You realize you can use a fake account, and that there's nothing abnormal with getting books from other sources? Every person I know in my country that uses a Kindle buy their books outside of Amazon's service.

But whatever. I live too far away from the US or police states like Germany to be worried about being sent to a gulag for pirating a couple of fantasy books.

>>9589753
>>being this paranoid
Apple already did similar stuff and purged some music libraries from non-itunes music.

A fake account also won't help you as long as you are not also switching machines or are using a VPN.

But you are certainly right, if you are living somewhere outside the US amazon will most certainly ignore you or just terminate your account.

Still, you are trusting someone whom you really should not trust.

>>9589772

>Apple already did similar stuff and purged some music libraries from non-itunes music.

What the fuck? Why? What if the music I'm uploading comes from my own CDs?

>>9589775
Anon don't worry yourself about it. Apple won't delete the music and if you are worried about using the kindle app or whatever block it from communicating with the internet via the firewall or hosts file. I'm probably still going to use Calibre, however, because although I'm not a FOSS fag (I definitely use Photoshop instead of GIMP for example) I am a firm believer in using whichever program is the best for the job and Calibre already has font removing (whenever publishers package with bad fonts, that is just awful) and deDRMer amongst other things

>>9589790

I wasn't worried per se since I haven't owned an Apple product in ages and don't plan to, but the idea that they would delete music you put on the device you paid them for just because it's not bought through their system is simply crazy.

>>9589795
Mostly because it isn't true.

>>9589657
>>9589671
>tfw I just bought a used paperback of The Fifth Head of Cerberus for 25 cents
Even if the Polish translation turns out to be shit, for that price I'd buy it just to put it on my shelf.

>>9589838
How much Wolfe is translated into Polish? I get the impression that most of the world got their own versions of Book of the New Sun but what else do you get? Any of his short fiction? I remember an Italian anon once said that Book of the Long Sun and Short Sun were both only available to him in English.

>>9589863
When it comes to short stories, a lot have been released in anthologies, but only one collection dedicated solely to Wolfe was released here. As for his novels, most were translated AFAIK.

The catch, though, is that he never got really popular here and none of his works is actually available in bookstores anymore. You can only get used copies. There's gonna be a new edition of BotNS next year, as a part of a very nice series of hardcover sci-fi classics. I've started collecting the whole series, 1 book every month, cause I love the cover art and the fact that they include a ribbon bookmark (why the hell is that a rarity nowadays?)

Just look at these covers, they're amazing IMO:
http://www.mag.com.pl/katalog/10

>>9589914
Good covers in modern science-fiction releases are rare but those all look pretty good. They all have a good unified style and manage to look sleek and modern without doing anything retarded.

>>9589928
>They all have a good unified style
The first three are missing the little solid-colored triangle in the lower left of the artwork though, that really triggers my autism. But whatever, it's not gonna be visible when they're on my shelf anyway.

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Don't mind me.
Just best standalone fantasy novel coming through.

>>9589748
Looks like he's reading a holy book while the other is translation/explanation.

>>9589748
Fuck, I'll never look this cool.

First law is so fucking unsatisfying but I've already read the first two books.

It's probably too late to ask if it's worth finishing but should I push through it? Is the ending worth it?

>Friend started reading rational fiction
>Has become the most insufferable faggot ever

>>9589022
Well he wrote that history for his own use. It wasn't really meant to be published.

>>9587110
>still being triggered about fascists even after you lost most of your biological body.

why do we have to have a containment thread?
why is the rest of /lit/ so fucking boring?

if they talked about actually intelligent, based writers like Mark Twain it wouldn't be so bad, but instead they jerk off over navel-gazing garbage. i'd rather read cheesy shit like Dragonlance than that shit.

>>9590119
>rational fiction
what is this and am I a pleb for not knowing about it?

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>>9590119
I'm so sorry anon. I'm currently about a third of the way through Yudkowsky's autism tome, and while it's been a surprisingly fun read I can't imagine if someone actually took it seriously.

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>>9590037

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>>9590374

Stop posting that bait, you imbecile. We might have people new to the thread who end up taking it seriously.

>>9590361
Probably the hard scifi cunts we see crying about the "theory isn't sound" or "that isn't possible".

>>9590143
>triggered about fascists
Are they saying that sex kills fascists?

>>9590361
Online, they're the type that gets upset when characters aren't making 100% logical decisions like some type of automaton or when aspects of a story don't follow the "reasonable" (their own interpretation) of how things should've transpired.

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>>9590402

That's so stupid. Since when do humans act rationally? Most people barely understand their own driving motivations. Though it would be cool if the main characters were robots.

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>someone wrote an autism fanfiction about Harry Potter but there will never be a sequel to Asimov's Foundation and Earth
Where the FUCK is my fanfiction sequel? Where the fuck is my sequel?

>>9590367
The main villain is Roko's Basilisk, isn't it

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>>9590269
We have containment threads to keep lit out. We have the most successful thread on the board. We don't want them mucking it up with stale IJ and gravity's rainbow memes. You have to actually read books to meme here, or you are caught out and strung up .
Two years running and it never died.
Look at all those failed reading groups they tried to do, even the "stupid questions" threads die for a few weeks before popping back up.

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>>9587110
Apart from cyberpunk itself, why are all the other -punk subgenres so devoid of actual punkishness?

>>9590419
Why don't you write it yourself?

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>>9590447

This. Most of the people on this board are teenagers that spew whatever papa professor told them in class, without any minds of their own. If you look at any of those 'What are you reading?' threads you'll see that these are the sort of people that spend two months reading a 300p entry-level novel. They're absolute plebs that shitpost the same things about IF and GR over and over, and talk about how awful and pseud successful people are.

>>9590459
>why are all the other -punk subgenres so devoid of actual punkishness?
>why is punk punk?
Because it's punk.

>>9590459

I wonder if those strongmen you see lifting hundreds of kilos could punch one of those unconscious. I know that's not animal friendly, and I wouldn't even want it to happen, it was just a random thought.

>>9590388
I'm being serious.... Why did you think I made it?

>>9590474
Because I never finish my fanfictions.
>25,000 words down the drain
Probably around 50,000 words of wasted plots now.

>>9590495

I refuse to believe that you are enough of a lowlife to put put Tolkien, Martin, Vance, Peake, Moorcock, Howard in the same league as Abercrombie Lawrence. And even if you were that bonkers, it's guaranteed to be a troll post given the lack of Rothfuss.

Don't you think it's strange that The Hobbit has no women in it?

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>>9590475
>i bet that pic is a guy
JUST

>>9590516

Calm down, anon. You're seeing traps everywhere.

>>9590510
It certainly explains why there are 13,918 gay fanfictions written about the Hobbits.

>>9590504
At least be happy you can start.

>>9590447
Is.. Is that book of the new sun in the window?

>>9590523
Whenever I get plotblocked I pick up another book. I think it helps.

>>9590530
*
However this doesn't help with plots that are so shit they can't be fixed due to a complete lack of planning on my part.

>>9590536
>not planning
Pantsers, when will they learn?

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Why is this book not recommended more often here?

Pure sci-fi kino

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>>9587638
>>9587638
>>9587638

Please guys, my friend really needs something to read

>>9590523
At least be happy you're invested enough in something to want to write a fanfiction for it.

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>>9590542

>Just because the majority of us don't fulfill our potential doesn't mean we don't have that potential.

Why are you talking about it as if this is a desirable outcome? Every endeavor on a human level led by so-called rationalists (using the word loosely here) was a complete disaster. Which is why scientists have no place in politics whatever except in an advisory capacity.

And I'm by no means a Ludite. In fact, I hold science in high regard and I'm a strong advocate of clear thinking. But if you're getting your education and life advice from places like lesswrong (or any transhumanist community, really) you should know that you've been brainwashed by a cult that looks attractive because they're working under the guise of science. Ray Kurzweil, Eliezer Yudkowsky and the rest of their ilk are just false prophets of this century, spinning a myth that rational materialists with no proper education outside of their fields gobble up.

And since this isn't a politics thread, you can write up your response to this and let's keep it at that.

>>9590506
>lowlife
Those are books I read and didn't like / read, liked then went to shit. The only meme one there is Lock in. Because I thoroughly enjoyed that book, i just placed it there because lit(sffg) at the time had a hate-hard on for anything Scalzi.

>The blade itself the only good character is Gloktha, and the ending I drive a hard bargain
>Tolkien was shit, enjoyed the hobbit though.
>GURM is never going to find the series, and it's in shambles right now.
>Yes Rothfuss should be added.
>Simon Green is an repetitive cunt.
>I didn't enjoy the short story for fag mouser, pissed me off but can't recall why years later.
>Thiefs Magic is shit.
>Abraham says his world is filled with magic but the entire use of the Undat using their powers can be summed up in one page. Fuck him and his political and banker books (yes I started coin and dagger, wisely dropped when I finished book one and I saw the series was going the way of Long Price)
>Dying Earth wasn't enjoyable just the cunt dancing nude, raping, and burning his mind with more than one spell. That shit might be enjoyable to you 40+ nostalgic fags who read it when it was released, but as someone who read it after 2010, it was shit.
The others either pissed me off or was too repetitive or cliched when I read them.

>>9590556

There isn't anything. Most fantasy works discussed here aren't even big on romance, never mind gay romance. There's a lot of gay shit in Bakker's series, but they're by no means primarily focused on it, nor does it have a young protagonist.

You're honestly looking in the wrong place. Tell your friend to grow the fuck up and read outside of her comfort zone. This isn't /a/.

>shave beard
>instantly regret it
Any sff with this feel?

>>9590556
>my friend
Sure. Sure.
Try the steel remains by Morgan

>>9590619

You can have your own opinion. Though, I fear for you if you see nothing of value in Tolkien and Peake. My problem is that you keep posting that image as if it's some kind of fact, and you're leading newbies astray. That isn't a consensus of /sffg/, it's only your opinion, and I think it's a tasteless one.

I'm very curious to know what you think is good. If you want to write back Malazan just don't bother and send me a fucking cyanide pill instead so I can end my misery.

>>9590493
I don't think so. Bovines are basically built to use their heads as rams, they're quite sturdy.

>>9590447
That isn't true though. Without this thread there would just be random fantasy/scifi threads that die within ten posts

>>9590645
>Though, I fear for you if you see nothing of value in Tolkien and Peake.
I can say the same for Sanderson. Everything has some value, it's just the value isn't enough for me to mindless shill it.

>you keep posting that image as if it's some kind of fact
It's a subjective fact, that those books are trash.

>That isn't a consensus of /sffg/, it's only your opinion, and I think it's a tasteless one.
Every Single Book recommended in this general is subjective, nothing is objective. It's just that people are too busy reading to knock down shills. Just because you see a minority vehemently shilling books here doesn't mean it is thread wide accepted.

>I'm very curious to know what you think is good.
Recently? I would shill library at mount char, roadside picnic and shades of grey.

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>>9590749
United we stand divided.

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>>9590765

>subjective fact

????????????????????????????

>I can say the same for Sanderson. Everything has some value, it's just the value isn't enough for me to mindless shill it.

Yeah, it's almost as if everything has a redeemable quality to it... Really makes you think... It's not like we can quantify the positives and negatives and each work and speak about this reasonably. Let's just make absurd and generalizing statements and insist that it's all subjective and impenetrable.

>Every Single Book recommended in this general is subjective, nothing is objective.

Again, that's just not true. A person can have different values and tastes, but that doesn't throw objective analysis out the window. To say that Tolkien is a masterful writer and creative mind that weaved together one of the best works of fantasy ever written is not "subjective." Whether you like it or not is up to you, but Tolkien is one of the most competent and influential writers of the last century. Similar things could be said of the others mentioned like Papa Wolfe and Grandpa Howard.

There is no real debate here. A reader can prefer Sanderson over Tolkien, but that's by no means an indicator of what's better. Nor can I think of any reason why we would throw objective evaluation out the window just because individual opinions conflict. Knowing and admitting that a work is great doesn't mean you have to enjoy it, nor is it necessarily true that you can only enjoy works of quality.

So to post an image that recommends people avoid Tolkien - arguably the greatest world-builder in all of fantasy and the fount of many other derivative works - is abjectly fucking stupid. The fact that you don't enjoy his work is completely irrelevant. COMPLETELY. IRRELEVANT. Especially given that your argument becomes self-contradictory given your premise.

There is a reason people make so many recommendations and why we try to list things in distinct categories: it's so that people - you know, those other sentient creatures in this thread? - can CHOOSE based on what THEY enjoy and are given enough objective information to choose for THEMSELVES. As opposed to your turbo-autism image that recommends everyone avoid works you didn't enjoy but happen to be objectively held as some of the best, while simultaneously holding that you think it's all subjective in the end anyway.

Holy shit Malazan is awful.

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>>9590928

>falling for mezla shills

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>>9590621

I didn't ask for romance, just for a homo protagonist. I pre- I mean my friend would even prefer if it wasn't explicit.

>>9590632

I'm not homo, really! Thanks

>>9588980
they were fun

>>9590493
Cows are crazy fucking strong, they're not comparable to humans

>>9590834
Do you know what objective and subjective means?

>To say that Tolkien is a masterful writer and creative mind that weaved together one of the best works of fantasy ever written is not "subjective."
It is, because I don't believe so, and many others don't too.

You are contradicting yourself also. But I don't feel like arguing. Because at the end of the day, your hot opinions isn't going to change my mind that the books I read were trash. Just because they're some of your all time FAVS!! doesn't mean shit. You can say something was trash (Rothfuss e.g) and you will find some anon coming in here unironically arguing that it was great. Nothing is here is objective. The problem is that your head is so far up your ass because no one called you on your shit until recently. Now you're behaving like we had a consensus about what was good and bad. Truth of the matter is no one cares enough to fight ("debate") shit here. And my fuck is gone /given. Expect to see that pic again anytime someone shills shit.

My post here >>9585905 still stands. You research shit before you read.
Anyone jumping on a book because some faggot waxed poetic on this general deserves every grief they get.
Anyone ignoring a book without researching it because some bitter and angry cunt made a chart in his blind and hate filled angst on this general is an idiot and should stop reading.

Reading is about forming your own opinion, you don't blindly follow like sheep.

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>>9590946
Well steel remains is pretty explicit... I mean pretty..

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>>9590991

I'll give it a look anon, but my friend would prefer a younger protagonist.

>>9590959
Hello, Mr Rogan.

>>9591059
Tell him to use sadpanda for tomgirl hentai.

>tfw ywn come up with a good magic system

>>9587341
Jesus

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>>9588138
ignore those other fools. This is it. Even has the "over 9000" meme in it.

>>9588980
enjoyed these a lot more than I expected to.

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>>9590988

>Do you know what objective and subjective means?

I do, but I'm pretty sure you don't.

>It is, because I don't believe so, and many others don't [either].

Nope, it doesn't matter what you believe. This isn't about belief, which is why I'm accosting you this way. What you believe amounts to jack shit in an objective study of an author. You can "believe" that Paradise Lost is the worst poem in the English language, but that doesn't make it so - it would only help people to identify you as a clueless moron.

>You are contradicting yourself also.

Point it out.

> But I don't feel like arguing.

Then stop trying to mislead people with your shitty opinions by masquerading them as facts and attacking the whole of /sffg/ as if it's one person.

>Because at the end of the day, your hot opinions isn't going to change my mind that the books I read were trash. Just because they're some of your all time FAVS!! doesn't mean shit. You can say something was trash (Rothfuss e.g) and you will find some anon coming in here unironically arguing that it was great.

I would immediately change my mind if someone proved to me that I misunderstood a work and didn't give it enough credit, because I'm not fucking autistic. Having said that, I'm not trying to sell you on anything other than how the world works. This isn't triggering to me because you're attacking my favorite authors; it's triggering because you're an ignoramus with bad taste that's trying to peddle it as some sort of red pill against /sffg/'s supposed shill recommendations.

>Truth of the matter is no one cares enough to fight ("debate") shit here.

There is nothing to be debated, and that's what you fail to understand.

>You research shit before you read.

Correct, which is why our charts either reflect the nature of the works (genre, length, etc) or their popularity. The idea that you would go in there and simply pick at random is nothing but your own projection. Those lists exist so that people can know what's out there and pick what they want to read. It's not reflective of any person's opinion; rather, it's an amalgam of the most common stuff.

>Reading is about forming your own opinion, you don't blindly follow like sheep.

Having an opinion on a work (e.g., whether or not you enjoyed it) doesn't change any of the objective facts about it (which ultimately add up to objective quality/value). If you deny reality you're just borderline solipsistic.

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Pleb Coming through:

I've read these based on /lit/ recommendations:
>Lord of the Rings
Good in its own way as the 1st breakthrough in modern fantasy. A Dinosaur today.
>The wheel of time
Mildly enjoyable until I realized it's more and more and more of the same with arguably the most annoying a generic female characters I've ever seen. Dropped while reading the 4th Book.
>The Darkness that comes before
Dreadful. I can't believe I fell for this meme here. One of the few books I've dropped before reaching the 100th page.
>Mistborn
Should have stopped reading at the end of the 1st book. The 1st one was really enjoyable. The second was a disgrace.
>The Stormlight Archive
The only series that hooked me. Really looking forward for Oathbringer. I really don't know why, but Sanderson strikes me as one of the few truly original minds in the genre.

What am I really missing? Is there any thing worth reading that's both non-generic and non-pseud?

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>>9591180

>>Lord of the Rings
>Good in its own way as the 1st breakthrough in modern fantasy. A Dinosaur today.
>>The Darkness That Comes Before
>Dreadful. I can't believe I fell for this meme here. One of the few books I've dropped before reaching the 100th page.
>>The Stormlight Archive
>The only series that hooked me. Really looking forward for Oathbringer. I really don't know why, but Sanderson strikes me as one of the few truly original minds in the genre.

You're disgusting.

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>>9591180
>Sanderson strikes me as one of the few truly original minds in the genre.

>>9588138
*summons shardblade*

>>9591198
If Sanderson's prose wasn't on par with a highschool student this general would be praising him to hell and back.

>>9591223

>if sanderson was good at writing this general would be praising him

Wew, lad, you don't say.

In any case: no. That wouldn't happen. Because at the end of the day Sanderson goes out of his way to write books for normies relatable good goyim that sell loads and impress brainlets like Felicia Day.

It's not just that his prose sucks. It's that his prose sucks, his magic systems are all flash, his world-building is gimmicky, and his characters and stories are fairly worse than your average anime. So far we're only covered what makes good commercial fiction like ASoIaF and he fails miserably even at that.

I don't hate him. In fact, he's pretty admirable. It's clear that he's not that smart and writing has never come easy for him, but through a lot of hard work he's figured out how to write well enough to please the crowds and make a living out of it - which is more than I can say for most of us losers on /lit/ that are either working shit jobs or eating mommy's leftovers. But because he writes to please the most people and acquire big shekels (combined with the fact that he's just not very bright), leads to some awfully soulless works of fiction.

I don't even think it's fair to call him anime, because there's plenty of anime with infinitely more depth than Sanderson's novels. And those are shows for kids.

>>9591269
>I can say for most of us losers on /lit/ that are either working shit jobs or eating mommy's leftovers

Don't worry. Once I'm done posting about my magnum opus I'll start writing it. I'll prove all you doubters wrong.

>>9591281

I don't doubt you, anon. I hope it happens. And you can always ask for advice on here.

>>9591180
You should read Warbreaker by Sanderson. It's amazing, and there's an important connection between it and Words of Radiance.

Are there any other sites out there like Strange Horizons that do more critical reviews of SFF stuff?

>>9591180
Read Warbreaker by Sanderson, it's his best work. Then start reading non-plebian books.

>>9591418
Serious question, what kind of "non-plebian" books would you suggest to someone who actually likes Sanderson a lot? And in what way are they better?

>>9591456

You should go back to The Prince of Nothing. Why did you even abandon it? It has one of the best thought-out magic systems. Assuming that's what you like about Animeson.

>>9591460
Ignore this guy, Bakker is a meme like how /g/ tells people to not use thermal paste.

>>9591486

>no argument whatever
>calls the greatest author of the 2000s a meme

Pathetic.

anyone know a good site to get some of these big name books for a Kobo free?
I am hoping to get myself back into reading (did tons when I was 12-16 and its been a few years, I'm hoping to ease back into some casual reading.
Neverwhere seemed interesting but I'm somewhat broke.

>>9591460
I'm a different anon, never read The Prince of Nothing. In what way is it better than Sanderson's books?

>>9591530

Google:

(name of book) epub mobilism.org


Or else check out

https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Bookz

>>9591530

b-ok( )org

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So I hear this book is terrible.
But the world is apparently nice.
Is it interesting lore or just random novelty?(novelty as in disjointed garbage that anyone can make up)
Can someone say if you need to read all books, if not, which books worth reading read?

recommend some good sci-fi horror, bois

Anyone got a book that'll help me learn how to do horror well within the realms of fantasy as in the people aren't just normal humans that die if the monster(s) look at them.

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I'm struggling, /sffg/. I have a dream of writing a series of fantasy novels, I have a bunch of ideas and stories and locations and world-building in mind (and text). But I'm so paranoid. I don't want to be a hack. I don't want it to be that book you like as a child and then despise as an adult, as you realize how preachy, badly written, or blatantly derivative it was.

Then it comes the self-critique as I realize how I'll never be able to cover all bases. My story might have good politics and world-building, but a geologyfag will tell me that mountain or volcano shouldn't be there. My story might have good characters (hopefully), but someone will eventually point out you can't possibly sustain an economy the way the kingdom in my story is doing it. These things make me second guess myself at every turn. Sorry for the blog post, but I'd like to know if some of you who aspire to write stories share these thoughts.

I've been reading books about classical storytelling, orthodox Christianity literature (since I want to learn about how people portray gods), basic commerce in medieval ages and more. Am I missing the point? Am I ruining the fun? what the fuck do I do?

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>>9591667
Average game of ss13. Now that's some horror.

>>9591667
I, Robot

>>9591681
Lad, it's going to be shit and the more you write and the better you get the more you realize just how shit it is. The good thing is that when you get better you can revisit it and redo it. Maybe it'll turn into something completely different that you'll love more than what you originally wrote. I came to terms with that when every single thing I wrote I ended up hating a few months later. Just keep writing and eventually you'll write something you like. I mean most authors spend decades getting to where they're at so if you're young you have a lot of time ahead of you, don't squander it by putting off your novels.

>>9591657

First of all, it won't be nearly as creative as you think. It's just generic fantasy bullshit - think of it as Elder Scrolls mixed with Warcraft, which I think is highly accurate. The only original thing you'll get is that you don't have orcs and elves. That's it.

You definitely need to read all of the books to understand it, because not only do characters appear out of sequence (some get pulled out and appear five books later, for example), but you'll need all the world-building and story references dropped throughout the entire length of the series to understand what the fuck is going on. That might sound like it's some super-important overarching story but it's... not really that. Can't say more without spoiling, but you'll be disappointed if you read all ten books only to get to the supposed out-of-this-world ending.

So it's not a fluid narrative that follows from beginning to end. Think of it more as a series of interconnected stories (but not to the point that they're standalone novels). So, yeah, it's basically the worst possible combination. You're going to be reading the most inane segments with characters you absolutely despise on the off-chance that a character you care about makes an appearance, or that something setting-worthy happens.

There's a few legitimately interesting characters in there, but most are archetypes that fill a purpose and come with a sob story because that's the main way Erikson characterizes to get you to care.

The only thing I'll say is that it gets feelsy as fuck at times, despite the fact that Erikson is clearly tugging at the heartstrings. There's a few moments I'll never forget, and they made me weep like a bitch.

While all of this might sound overly critical, I suggest you read it. Any fantasy fan should read Malazan at least once (or try it). It's definitely not "terrible." But it's not the brainy masterpiece Malazan fanboys would have you believe, either.

>>9590459
owen wilson changed a lot since the last time i saw him

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>>9591698

I kept looking at the kid, and then it came to me.

>>9591681
Learn how to write payoff and build up.
Convey information without exposition.
And most importantly, lore, gods and how magic can all be as bad as in Game of Thrones, if only you learn how to write dialogue/conversation/debate/argument/discussion/rumors/eavesdropping/conference/sidelined shittalking and especially Banter... et cetera. That is the most important thing you need to be capable of. Everything else is secondary.

>>9591681
You don't need to specify everything, let the geologyfag come up with exactly where the mountain is and how it works.

>>9591681
At least you don't have ADHD. I'd love to be a writer but I can't focus and learn for shit.

>>9591681
Also, everyone is a hack.

Good Books Ain’t free. The tree of science fiction fantasy gotta be waterd with the blood of pulp authors. r scott bakker aka “R SCOTT HACKER” is not my author. he is self inflated hack and probbaly patrick rothfuss in a wig as well :DD. THOUGHTS and prose not stars and WARS ok. praise asimov.

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>>9591681

I had the exact same concerns as you do, anon, and then I realized they're just bullshit reasons to put off writing for as long as possible. The truth is, you're never going to know enough about every discipline to make your world feel "realistic." At the same time, it's not important in the slightest. As you can tell from all the shitty movies that come out, fans go out of their way with mental gymnastics to justify the most outrageous shit.

If you keep fixating on these things you'll end up in the same boat as I did: dreaming for close to ten years about writing, but spending my entire time reading nonfiction in order to make my world-building feel "realistic." So now I know a bunch of nonsense that's probably never going to play an important part, while my writing isn't nearly as polished as it could be.

When it comes down to it, good storytelling has nothing to do with realism. Nothing. I mean that. N o t h i n g. People will buy into the craziest shit so long as it's emotionally engaging. So long as you know how to do characterization, dialogue, and to keep a plot moving, nothing else matters.

Just look at Lost. It was all a bunch of bullshit fake mysteries, but it's always going to be remembered, because S1 was some of the best, most dramatic, most engaging television ever made. And guess what? Even after the creators fucked up EVERYTHING, even the characters, people STILL try to justify how it all fit in, because they're that attached to those fucking story from S1.

>>9591703
>>9591681
And this is very important, for me at least.
I don't want to read about fucking heists, jailbreaks or self introspection.
Make characters express their fucking thoughts or say shit to someone, don't fucking make them just think/feel it, cause that's just a form of shitty exposition of "character development.
This doesn't mean not to write down pov emotion or ideas when the character is alone.

TL:DR regularly have more than one POV.

>>9591681
Also not everything in your story needs to be 100% accurate or plausible unless that's what you're trying to show. For example, does the reader need to know the entire economy within your kingdom if your story is about hunting monsters? No, just the economy relevant to the story if your character sells monster parts. Does your reader need to know politics between every royal faction and kingdom? No, unless your story is involved in it. If you're not skilled keep your scope low. It's fine to flesh out a setting but unless you're going to keep reusing that setting do not spend weeks getting everything correct, just enough to write your novel. When you get better you can increase the scope and start writing more complex things. Just work your way up. I mean unless your protagonist or other characters is a merchant and they're integral to the plot or said plot involves the economy of the kingdom you won't ever need to go into detail about it. Same with geography and just about everything else.

>>9591741

>tfw I have this problem

I always focus on the characters and how they connect with everyone else, and have no actual plot. Then I sit down to write and fucking nothing is happening other than me describing the character's thoughts. Just fucking gut me and use my organs as Christmas ornaments. Destroy me.

>>9591751
Kek, My problem is that I can't into detail. Like if there's a castle made of stone I just go "The cold, weathered stones" after 15 minutes of trying to improve it I give up and look for books that can help me. So far I haven't found one. Thought "The Elements of Style" would help me but nope. At least it improved my grammar during editing.

>>9591762

There's nothing wrong with sparse descriptions if you legitimately having nothing to add. I'm sure better authors could come up with an enchanting or horrifying depiction, but failing that, I would rather get "cold, weathered stones" than three paragraphs of how some dude that's never going to be relevant in the story built the castle in the year 212110128192 using with the help of Blablabla and then passed it on to Blabloi who defended it against... FUCK. Nothing triggers me more than empty, pointless info-dumping. Especially when they're doing it in the first chapter and you don't even have any foundation to built upon, they're just hitting you with random names, and you can't fucking tell if this is important and mandatory to memorize, or if it's just random bullshit. 9/10 it's random bullshit.

>>9591723
>THOUGHTS and prose not stars and WARS ok
This part need work. Also, make an image you lazy cunt

>>9591751
That's why one must be able to write dialogue.
It's the #1 plot mover.

>>9591762
Describe how when hey arrive to - X place - describe the immediate emotion someone except the POV feels about it. Like you the POV hear some say "that's a big city", smells like shit all the way from here (something/anything), have someone tell a short story about something last time they where there.
Like "finally fixed the damn gate"
Again, DIALOGUE!

Point is, most castles are made of stone.
Bad roads imply old roads, extortion or lack of guards implies "bad rule".

Reader doesn't need to know the most important thing about a place the first pages you're there.

Doesn't mean you can't have an entire chapter of exposition if it's enticing as fuck.

Imagine telling someone about that trip you had to a really interesting place, how you loved "the X thing", that's how you write "characters' first time somewhere interesting".

>>9591460
I hate Bakker's writing. He's a pseud.

>>9591324
>>9591418
>and there's an important connection between it and Words of Radiance

I'm aware of the Cosmere and stuff but what do you mean exactly? Is Warbreaker a stand alone?

Is Hoid in it?

>>9591762
I have the same problem. To battle this, I'd sit on my balcony, look at things and try to describe them in my head. There are countless objects/events you can observe.

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>>9591696
>It's just generic fantasy bullshit - think of it as Elder Scrolls mixed with Warcraft, which I think is highly accurate.

That's what I thought.
Rather have generic dorfs and elfs than novelty for the sake of novelty.

>Last fall, Chinese company DMG Entertainment bought the rights to Brandon Sanderson’s Cosmere universe, a huge, interconnected epic fantasy world that includes some of the author’s best-known works. Now, DMG is using VR to pitch the story and world to potential buyers.
>The company is reportedly spending “seven figures” to build the 15-minute VR session, according to Variety. It’s apparently based on the first book of Sanderson’s series The Stormlight Archive, The Way of Kings, an adaptation of which is being written by Saw writers Patrick Melton and Marcus Dunstan.
>Variety reports that DMG is “two months into production on the virtual reality experience,” and that it’ll only be available to studios, although it will eventually be brought to consumers. Sanderson told Variety that “it’s amazing,” and explained that it includes storms, fights, and “canyons filled with alien life.”
>While most pitches include the screenplay, artwork, or a sizzle reel to convince studios to pick up a story for a pilot or show, VR as a selling tool is something new. The intent is to show studios the depth of the world, comparing its potential to that of J.R.R. Tolkien’s Middle-earth or George R.R. Martin’s Westeros.

I can't believe adults fell for the Sanderson meme

Beats build Scenes build Sequences build Acts.

>>9591909
This is actually a good idea, thanks anon.

>>9591895
He is. The other anon is wrong however, there's no "important" connection between the books. Warbreaker is standalone, at most you'll recognize a character or two.

>>9591917
>Chinese
>VR
>Sanderson
recipe for disaster

>>9591917
>comparing its potential to that of J.R.R. Tolkien’s Middle-earth or George R.R. Martin’s Westeros.
Sanderson's Cosmere sucks though. All he does is add small references to it that won't be relevant for a few decades since he plans to finish Stormlight and the second mistborn trilogy before then.

>>9591809
I'm gonna sound like a massive faggot saying this, but bear with me please:

Why is i automatically eye-rolling, if the ancient stories used to do this?

The Bible, Gilgamesh, the works of Homer. They all, in one way or another, dump their warriors and their whole linage up your ass as they explore the world they live in.

Surely people appreciated it even when these works were written, otherwise they wouldn't have been popular in the first place. Aren't we being biased when we do this? (because I also do it).

>>9591922
I meant Nightblood, the sword that appears near the end of WoR and which was an important part of Warbreaker. I think this qualifies as an important connection.

>>9591960
It's just a glorified Shardblade with a mental condition for all we know. Basically, sure might be important in the next book but might as well not be.

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>>9591909
All description should "always" have some allegory/symbolism connected with either the plot or chapter or immediate sensation/motion that cause the observation.
If the POV notices something that's either important or something distracting.
If the POV smells something instead of hearing something else, or something.

Point is to convey perceived value. We either notice that which we care about/long for/connected to the thing we think about or that which is highly distracting/stands out.

Take pic related.
What's the first you notice?
Giants?
Slave giants?
Traders?
Pretty high walls?
Maybe bleakness and dread?
Fear cause they're fucking huge?
Freedom?
Maybe you reminisce of your past.
Maybe you don't notice at all cause it's not new to the pov, then you have another in "party" or nearby, someone candid, ask something obtuse about the poor giants.

>>9591969
>>9591960
Should I get Elantris too?

>>9592011
You'd be better off not falling for the Sanderson meme. Seriously I'd recommend Bakker of all people before Sanderson

>>9592019
But Sanderson is good. What's with all the Sanderson haters here, do they mass breed them somewhere nearby?

>>9592019
>You'd be better off not falling for the Sanderson meme. Seriously I'd recommend Bakker of all people before Sanderson

TOP KEK. Did you just get here? I clearly stated that Bakker is one of worse experiences I've had while reading. He's a massive pseud hack.

>>9592011
Even memes aside Elantris is not good. It's quite noticeable that it's Sandersons first book, the concept is quite cool but the characters are one-dimensional as fuck and the ending is quite stupid. If you want more Sanderson The Emperor's Soul is probably his second best work after Warbreaker.

>>9592038
Sanderson's claim to fame is his Cosmere universe but he does a shitty job with it

>>9592045
I thought that Arcanum Unbound was only readable if you kept up with all of his series.

>>9592011
It was my first book by him, and I remember I enjoyed it a lot. But I've read it a long time ago, so I don't remember it that well.

>>9592038
>He's a massive pseud hack
Bakker is a hack but he's not a pseud

>Sanderson is going to do 10 books
>it's already going to shit
"Less is more" isn't a meme, lads.

>>9592067
>Arcanum Unbound
Have not read lol

But The Emperor's Soul is completely standalone.

>>9592077
He plans to do ten books just for stormlight archive. His entire Cosmere thing is going to be over 30 books

>>9592071
>Bakker is a hack but he's not a pseud
>not a pseud

How so?
>Muh nietzsche
>Muh Philosophy

Not to mention that his writing is truly disgusting.

>>9592081

Isn't Emperors Soul a 100+ page novella? It came out with AarcUn I think.

>>9592085
Yeah, it's quite short. I'm sure Google will give you a exact page number.

>>9591657
It's definitely worth giving a try. Just make sure you get through the first and second at the very least, and be prepared for benig lost. Don't skip the preface, don't skip the poems. If you feel like reading more after that, go ahead, but be aware that the locations change and you'll be waiting a long time for some characters to show up again. It's not a world in which all characters encountered will always have an impact on the overarching plot, just like in real life where you meet people and drift apart some time later.

World is based on Erikson and Esslemont's D&D gaming, but the species etc. are unique, yet not exactly groundbreaking (do we even have that after Tolkien?). I find the history of the world interesting, but it's not as complete as Tolkien's. They have major events and such, but Erikson occasionally references some ancient battle which is just a tool for giving the impression of a larger world with an ancient history. Every writer does this, tho.

>>9592019
>Sanderson meme
Sanderson isn't a meme. /sffg/ thinks he's great. Go back to outer /lit/

>>9592098
>World is based on Erikson and Esslemont's D&D gaming
Into the trash it goes

>>9592101
>/sffg/ thinks he's great
These are terrible memes.

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>>9592101
>/sffg/ thinks he's great

>>9592103
Primarily in the sense that you have companions/squads, and Erikson is great with squad dynamics. Apparently, they often neglected the rules of the game in order to make the stories better.

>>9592112
I've read to many fantasy novels based on the author's D&D experiences and all of them have been garbage

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>>9591657
Read up, or get out.

>>9592101
Actually reddit loves Sanderson. you should probably go back

>>9592118
Even anime and manga based on D&D experiences are garbage.

>>9591657
Erikson's characters suck.

>>9592101
Have you ever shat in your plate?

>>9592124
>I'm a special human being because I live things that regular people don't like

>>9592118
Like what?

>>9592124
kys memer

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>>9591681
>thanks for reading my blog
Get Out

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>>9591723
Need to work on your spurdo memeing.

>>9592151
You fucked up. The cat scans on the wall should have had "ideas" etched into the brain. Thus it would have been more subtle for showing that the author is stealing. If someone downloads that pick and doesn't keep the name the reference is lost.

I don't watch a lot of anime, nor have I read Brandon Sanderson. Nevertheless, Edgar Rice Burroughs' A Princess Of Mars feels like anime. The protag can leap 50+ feet into the air, has a devastating right hook, and routinely beats groups of four-armed martians that are twice his height. Whenever he's stabbed wounded he is quickly patched up with and on his feet like nothing happened. It remains an entertaining piece of frivolity, and a change of pace from what I had previously been reading. There are some interesting parallels to Star Wars - perhaps I will go further on this point in a small while.

Any fantasy novels where the villain is defeated by the power of teamwork and friendship?

>>9592151
When did I say that, anon?
Do you have reading comprehension problems?
Come on now, we won't judge. We're all friends here.

>>9592234
Lord of the rings.

>>9592234
Naruto

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WHERE ARE THE OLD FATHERS?

>>9592242
>how do I green text
You reddit scum need to be purged.

>>9592242
lurk moar, faggot

What do you think of Sanderson's laws of magic?

>>9592320
>Sanderson's laws of magic
>#1 An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.
Well that's completely fucking wrong.
The reader should only know what the POV/protagonist knows.

>2# The limitations of a magic system are more interesting than its capabilities. What the magic can't do is more interesting than what it can.
That's partly true.

>#3 Expand on what you have already, before you add something new.
well that's entirely subjective to what "already have" is.

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QUICK
GIVE ME TITLES OF REALLY INTERESTING SHIT, SHORTER THE BETTER I GUESS
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE
MAYBE HARD SCI-FI SHORT STORIES?

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>>9591922
The entire point of Warbreaker was to introduce Vasher/Zahel as a character.

>>9591969
Nightblood is basically a Shardblade made of a different magic system and shits all over normal Shardblades.

>>9592011
Yes.

>>9592529
Nightblood was made with metal. Shardblades are vapor crystals.

where the fuck did all these sanderson normies come from and why were they allowed to keep shitposting? Everytime authors like Sanderson come into discussion, it always becomes shit tier discussion. At least when we were shooting the shit over Bakker/Erikson, it was meaningful

>>9592665
should we make our own general so that you guys can discuss patrician fantasy in piece? /sandg/?

>>9592693
No, please. Don't leave me here with the Bakker fags.

I made it most of the way through Claw of the Conciliator before I just couldn't go on. I consider myself well versed in Science Fiction of all sorts, from many different decades. I've found reading Herbert and Asimov very rewarding. I love old Robert A. Heinlein and have been getting really into Alastair Reynolds this last year as well. Wolfe though has some of the worst prose I've come across. Its not simple and pulpy like Kevin J. Anderson (who at least writes compelling narratives), Gene Wolfe just doesn't bother fleshing out characters. His characters flit from one problem to another, seemingly unaffected by the events that have preceded them.

Severian falls in love with every woman he meets, and then justifies it to himself and the reader even though he acknowledges he has only known them for a day or so. He descries his many ways of desiring other woman and then has sex with them but doesn't consider how his other companions might feel about it (nor does that seem to effect the other either). He's a master of the difficult horizontal sword strike with a sword he only just received having had no explanation of the training or practice that went into his mastery of it. The story just goes off and weird tangents, like excursions into other books, that only serve to allow the reader to forget what little story the main plot has been following. My complaints go on, but I'm sure you get my point.

I'm just flabbergasted. Looking around for a few minutes I could find nothing but exceptional praise for this author and these books. I've just come off a second reread of A Song of Ice and Fire, so am I looking for too much from the series that I chose to follow with? Am I jaded? I don't think so. I remember reading Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained after my first read-through of ASOIAF and I was blown away with Peter Hamilton's compelling story telling, and his vision of Earth's near future.

>>9592697
just fuck off to /sandg/ along with them

>>9592722
>Wolfe though has some of the worst prose I've come across
Worst? Or do you just have trouble reading it? Are there any sentences which come to mind which are particularly stupid sounding or poorly constructed?
>Wolfe just doesn't bother fleshing out characters
I think that he actually fleshes them out better than most, just it's not explicit. Severian is very reticent with his emotions for the most part but they are there. It's hard to judge him though because he doesn't like to talk about his own personality. Instead you have to gauge him yourself by his actions and how others treat him.
>Women
Severian's relationships with women are weird and probably not healthy. You aren't supposed to view how he treats people as normal.
>He's a master of the difficult horizontal sword strike with a sword he only just received having had no explanation of the training or practice that went into his mastery of it
If you're trying to make an argument for Gary Stu-ness it isn't work. It's just a particular way of executing someone with a sword that's harder than a horizontal cut. And he doesn't claim to be a master with the sword, he explicitly says that he was afraid of screwing it up. It's only the one time he does that in the story. He really pulls off any remarkable feat of swordsmanship throughout the entire story. He's strong and smart but no great warrior.
>The story just goes off and weird tangents
Wolfe's work is full of tangents but they're never pointless. I assure you that if you read to the end and then start again you'll be amazed at how well used every page of the story is. Nothing is inconsequential or irelevant in Book of the New Sun. If you thought that any portion of the story seemed pointless and overlong you just haven't realized how it's relevant yet.

>Am I jaded
No, from the sounds of it you're impatient and not well-versed in your classics at all.

>>9592318
>>9592310
I meant it as "in no way my post could be misconstrued as what you said", you shouldn't be so scared of the reddit boogieman.

>>9592878
nice damage control

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>thread unfolds nicely
>go to sleep, wake up
>americanskis with peanut-for-brain seriously dismissing bakker and insisting sanderson is Our Guy

God help you.

>>9592665

It must be the summer break that's bringing them in. I love nothing more than shitting over Mezlas and seeing Hackerfags going epistemology and metaphysics to defend poor characterization, but these "Sanderson is the most original // Bakker and Erikson can't write" retards that have read 50 pages of each at most don't have a place here.
>there are people in this thread right now that think Sanderson is superior to both Tolkien and Wolfe

>>9592693
Or you could go back r/Sanderson

>>9592936
I was just joking but I didn't know that there were actual Sandersonfags here.

I actually like Sanderson.

I'm thinking of making a (flow)chart for military science fiction/fantasy books. Any suggestions beyond the popular stuff like Starship Troopers/Forever War/Armor, Honor Harrington, Hammer's Slammers, Black Company, etc?

>>9592964
Every /sffg/ chart is a meme. Don't bother trying to make a serious one

>>9592964

That sounds like a good idea. You should put the Horus Heresy starter trilogy on there too. I don't think most people are even aware that it exists. Then again, it would be cool if we had a Black Library chart in general. I would make one but I'm not knowledgeable enough in their publications.

>>9592966

Fuck off with this nonsense and kill yourself. You're simply too ass-blasted to co-exist with the rest of us. The charts aren't there to promulgate some ultimate standard or to appease the tastes of every single autist in existence. They're there so that new people at least know what to look up, and it's a functional system.

>>9592998
This post looks like satire but I'm not certain.

>>9592998
>Horus Heresy starter trilogy on there too. I don't think most people are even aware that it exists
>anyone on the internet doesn't know about warhamma 40k

>>9593027

I knew about 40K for a long, long time, but I never thought the Black Library stuff was any good unless you're a fan of the game (which I wasn't). As it turns out, many of them are great reads in their own right.

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>ywn be an Ultra living out decades in a couple of years aboard a lighthugger

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>>9592621
Nightblood is a stronger Shardblade per WoG though.

NEW THREAD

>>9593093
>>9593093
>>9593093
>>9593093
>>9593093

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Does anyone know of a good Dune analysis?
Looking to get some more insight in this work.

>>9592529
>The entire point of Warbreaker...
In that case it's quite a pointless piece of work as he introduces himself quite fine in WoR.

>>9592665
>the thread is only good when we're shitting on authors
Grow up.

>>9592226
John Carter's obvious invulnerability does kill a lot of potential suspense. The appeal, though, is less about *whether* he's going to make it through than how exactly he does it (meh, he usually just fights his way out, but to his credit Burroughs does describe "boss fights" in pretty good detail) and what cool stuff he sees along the way.

Regarding similarities, it'd be more accurate to say a lot of anime feels like Barsoom. There's also an obvious parallel to videogames: the player/protagonist *is* going to make it to the ending, the real value is in what he does and sees on the way there.

>>9592519
>The Complete Short Stories of Arthur C. Clarke
A few crappy stories, but lots of quality and often pretty interesting.

>The Best Of Gene Wolfe
>The Wolfe Archipelago
SUBMIT to the Pringles Man, acknowledged reigning King of Science Fiction and Fantasy.

>The Dragon Masters
>The "Jack Vance Treasury" collection
More fantasy, but definitely "really interesting shit"

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>>9592722
The paragraph breaks were my first tipoff.