/sffg/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy General

>>9577079
>Mycroft Canner
Stop pushing SJWshit.

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>>9577098
>post book depression is easy to cure

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>>9577079
What is the literary equivalent to Beyond the Black Rainbow?

What's the video game equivalent to Malazan

>>9577116
Witcher.

>>9577004
Going to try Stross.

>>9577122

>a slavic fantasy setting focused on actual medieval life is similar to an anime setting with le female warriors and ebin magick$

>>9577116

Probably Dragon Age in execution and Warcraft in feeling. Warcraft's a lot more like Malazan than it is like Warhammer.

Anyone know any book where the MC goes through a long training phase? But I mean in the Eastern sense, where they first have to journey to a monastery and pass different trials and so on. No magic school Potteresque stuff, please. Ideally no Wuxia novels either.

>>9577210
Starship Troopers and Ender's Game are what immediately come to mind when you ask about training. Don't know how Eastern they are though. No goofy Chinese guys full of parables.

>>9577229

Nah, I've read both of those but it's not what I mean.

>No goofy Chinese guys full of parables.

Now that's exactly what I mean. Just something comfy full of descriptions of temples and misty mountains and moralizing by sledgehammer.

>>9577210
Eragon was like that for the first half and a bit of the book.

>It's another young adult series where some teenagers topple the evil government episode

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Best science fiction / fantasy blogs and news sites?

>>9577116
Warcraft

>>9577379
Which Book of the New Sun cover is that? It's pretty good.

As for blogs, http://greatsfandf.com/. Never gets updated but as an archive of great works it's very good. Anything 3 stars or higher is almost certainly worth a look.

>>9577379
I don't think conceptualfiction.com has been updated in years but it has a lot of good recommendations including a bit of analysis and introduced me to Cordwainer Smith. Good site.

>>9577210
>longish training phase
House of blades
Undying Mercenaries

>>9577517
It's an deviant art cover

>>9577379
You cut off the writing at the bottom idiot.

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I've read a couple of Clark Ashton Smith stories since the last few days, In Ubbo-Sathla (1932) an amateur anthropologist and occultist enters a curio shop in contemporary London, where he finds a glimmering orange orb. When he looks into it he loses his sense of self, gains the perception of a sorcerer from a past life, and views the devolution of the world to its origins as a primordial slime. The way this story depicts the protagonists disorientation with his contemporary world while simultaneously inhabiting a past life (merging realities) is well done and reminded me of some of Philip K Dick's stories, particularly in a couple of passages. Indeed, CAS says of this piece that his intention was to portray 'the profound and manifold dissolutioniof reality.' But generally, this is more of a conventional Lovecraft tale of past lives, atavism, and ancient civilisations, with a Lovecraftian protagonist, and mythos entity. This is also one of CAS's more accessible stories, and fun. 4/5

Afterwards I read The Double Shadow (1932). Here, a powerful wizard-necromancer and his apprentice live in a secluded cliff-top mansion in the last remaining part of the Atlantean continent. While beachcombing, they find a mysterious mirror-like artifact adorned with ancient runes which they begin to decode through the years. Like other CAS stories this is about powerful men who seek recondite knowledge, and perhaps overreach themselves. The descriptions and setting are well written, full of demoniacal detail, and give a clear sense of being in the ancient seafront household of an Atlantean wizard from the POV of the apprentice. 5/5

>>9577650
>There's another anon than like CAS.
I tought I was the only one desu, I prefer him to Lovy or Howy. What do you think about his zothique cicle? I prefer his standalone novels or averoigne better, but they are still pretty good.

I just finished 'Assassins Fate' by Robyn Hobb.

Wew lads - hold me. I was not ready for that ending.

>>9577703
It felt it was wonky and kinda of rushed. Fucking Fitz man, why is he such a disaster at being a family man.

I need either fantasy or near-future sci-fi that will leave me reeling, like I've been in a car accident. I want the sound of screeching metal in my ears, gunfire. I want pulp action, but with a bit of meaning in it. I want PKD mixed with Cormac McCarthy mixed with The Raid: Redemption.

Somebody help me out here. I need something intense and even a bit literary. Like J. G. Ballard decided to go a little more overtly sci-fi or try fantasy.

I like Prince of Nothing and all that, but I don't want epic fantasy.

I think maybe what I'm looking for doesn't exist. But what's the closest thing you can think of?

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>>9577758
Ilium

>>9577758
Snow Crash?

>>9577210
If you haven't watched The 36th Chamber of Shaolin, you owe it to yourself.
>>9577764
I'll check it out.
>>9577789
Too much silliness in that book, especially near the beginning. I liked it, but it isn't quite what I'm looking for.

>>9577650
You should start up a review blog, anon-kun. I would totally read that shit.

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Holy shit Mistress of Mistresses from Zimiamvia is hard to read, but at the same time I feel it's the only worthwhile sffg I've read in a while

What do y'all think of Peter Watts?

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Do people think pic related is good? I'm about half way through it and literally can't believe how badly written some of the dialogue is. Does it get better in the next books or should I just quit now?

>>9577894
Erikson is an extraordinary writer... treat yourself

>>9577903
Thanks Mr Donaldson

>>9577894

It gets worse.

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>>9577907
Really? I'm struggling at the moment to understand what people enjoy about them.

>>9577894
It gets better but the prose itself is still shit. I am personally dropping it at book 3 because while it's not terrible, it's also not worth it for 10 books. You need to be genius patrician tier to get me to read 10+ books of your shit.

>>9577925

I guess they like the wacky characters and the fact that there's so many of them and so many places. But it's not a deep story or anything. There's more feels later, though. Gardens of the Moon isn't representative. I'd say read Deadhouse Gates before you decide.

>>9577926
>>9577931
This is what I was worried about. I may just give it one more book and decide then. Ten books is far too much if it doesn't improve.

>>9577925
People enjoy epics. You get immersed in the world and the characters. I have not read Malazan but that's my theory on why almost everyone love ASOIAF, Wheel of Time and Stormlight Archives even though they all have their set of problems.

is any of ray bradbury's stuff good or is it just a meme?

>>9577931
whacky characters is pretty uncharacteristic, like thats mainly just the bridgeburners and kruppe, rhulad, karsa, the adjunct, and the tiste were hardly whacky.

the characters are great though, like cotillion and the little girl who eats the dead people.

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>>9577971
I get that but the dialogue is very immersion breaking. It's hard to be immersed in the world when everybody sounds like they've been written by a 14 year old.

The descriptive prose is basically fine, not amazing but fine, it's just the actual dialogue that fucks it.

>>9577990
Not that anon but it's not that the characters are wacky just that they're caricatures and hard to read. in my opinion at least.

>>9578000

Why don't you just switch over to another series? I mean, even if you liked Malazan at the outside (as many of us did), there's still a serious chance you'll be disappointed later. Book 5 is basically unreadable and almost every apart from a few hardcore fans suggest people skip it.

>>9578019

outset**
everyone***

I'm retarded.

>>9577679
I'll let you know about his Zothique stories when I get there, there's two stories below the The Dark Eidolon. I'm reading CAS for the first time after reading much of REH and HPL, and I'm very impressed.

>>9577840
That's kind praise. Some anons have pointed out the futility of writing reviews on here, where everything is lost in time after a few days in the archive. But I have been backing upto a wordpad file for a while now, and sometimes I incorporate these shorter pieces into longer articles on my wordpress blog: http://cs7850.wordpress.com/.

>>9577894
I found it rather hard to read, but it made me hungry for more at the end. I didn't really catch the plot of book 2 at the start, but it really got me hooked to read more. I don't regret reading them all and am hungry for a reread despite finishing the tenth some weeks ago.

>>9578019
>Book 5 is basically unreadable and almost every apart from a few hardcore fans suggest people skip it.
What the fuck? Book 5 is one of the highest rated in the entire series. It's just a couple autistic people on /sffg/ I see hating it because it breaks from the established characters and they can't deal with it. If you managed to get into Gardens of the Moon there's no reason you can't get into Midnight Tides, it's essentially an alternate start point to the series.

>>9578000
>the dialogue is very immersion breaking
The dialogue is very well done. I'd like to see your example of good dialogue if you think Erikson's is bad.

>>9578360
>>9578362

>the insecure malazan fanboys have arrived

I guess you guys can only be gone for so long.

>>9578362
I know I'm going to get jumped for this but LOTR. If you legitimately read the banter between the characters, they all feel alive and individualistic.

The problem with some of the dialogue in Erikson is that he'll randomly start using dialogue to infodump pages and pages of shit referencing events from 2 or 3 books ago. Also a lot of characters will talk similarly. But that's because they're so samey

>>9578444

LotR has incredible dialogue. It's some of the best ever written, for sure.

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>>9577703
>>9577720

Is it worth reading for someone who loved Farseer/Tawny Man (literally cried twice in Tawny Man, only fantasy series to make me do it), but thinks her other work is hit/miss, and is worried that it will end the (imo) pretty fucking perfect ending of Fool's Fate?

>>9578469

*ruin the ending

Why isn't there a single fantasy series that seems to receive overwhelming praise?

LOTR probably qualifies when it was released, but there are so many complaints about it today.

Whether it's Malazan or ASOIAF or any other highly praised series, there seems to be a lot of criticism about them also.

>>9578500
I think LOTR was hated by contemporary critics during release, though it was very popular. It gained acclaim a bit later in academic circles

>>9577894
Malazan is just another sffg meme

>>9577983
Bradbury is a good read if you are bored with Asimov's style, because he is more of a fantasist and lyrical writer than a realist. I think new SF readers should read Martian Chronicles should be read alongside Foundation to appreciate two different approaches, and depending on preferences either branch off towards other hard Campbellian SF, or soft SF + New Wave. Asimov has better ideas and speculations, Bradbury is a better prose stylist.

>>9578500
>there are so many complaints about it today.
contrarians

>>9578500
Name a popular piece of literally whatever that doesn't have it's fair share of critique, deserved or not.

>>9578362

See >>9578444

The characters are used as a shitty means of exposition and they all speak very alike. There's very little character to how they speak. ASOIAF has much better characterisation but then that's more about the characters than Malazan so it's kind of expected.

>>9578500
Literally every book has some objective flaws, but people often are willing to overlook or don't really notice them in a 400 page novel, while in a 4000 page series they can get really annoying/frustrating.

>>9578593
>ASOIAF has much better characterisation
It's still pretty bad characterization

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this series any good?

>>9578681

It's okay. The books are way better than the show.

Are there any overlooked horror novels that people would recommend?

What are some good books that involve different races (humanoid or not)?
Preferably something in which they take part of the story and aren't just relegated to the background.

>>9578918
Sci-fi, fantasy or both?

>>9578923
I prefer Fantasy but if there are any Science Fiction books or series that do it well then I'd check them out too.

>>9578928
If you're a experienced reader you could probably try Book of the New Sun, it's basically sci-fi disguised as fantasy and feature lots of exotic beings.

>>9578918
Perdido Street Station

Many Discworld books feature dwarfs, trolls and the like.

>>9578845
Metro 2033 is cited as a great exploration or even borderline-YA novel but I got proper spooked reading it.

Holy shit Too Like the Lightning is good. Fucking good. I'm loving this world and style, Palmer's really drawing me in.

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Good fucking Lord I have no idea why I finished this pile of hot garbage. How are the rest, do they get any better? Jorg an utter shit, the Nuban deserved better.

>>9577885 here.
Anybody?

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>>9579430
I really like him

he annoys a few people and while im not sure we agree 100% politically, i follow his blog enough to call myself a fan. he writes incredible scifi, probably some of the best 2000+

rifters trilogy is ok, if very acquired taste (hardcore watts fans only)
blindsight universally agreed to be one of the best bits of modern (hard) scifi, Echopraxia's great as well
short stories are interesting, not as mixed good and awful as some authors but none of them stand out as on a level of blindopraxia

also he responds to e-mails fairly promptly, and takes awe/criticism humbly

>>9579418
>do they get any better?
It gets more retarded.

>>9577885
Everyone on /sffg/ likes him.

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Want to read some scifi again, are these books that good?

>>9578500
I don't think I've ever seen a critique of Book of the New Sun which I didn't find retarded.

After slogging through the Trial and Plato's 5 dialogues for a few weeks I picked up Do Android's Dream of Electric Sheep, finished it in five hours, and was blown away with out engaging and easy to read it was. Lots of fun giving a shit about android animals.

The only other Sci-Fi I have on my shelf, other than 10 warhammer books I never read, is Dune, which seems like a big time commitment.

>>9577758
I was going to suggest William Gibson's Blue Ant series but they're not very action packed. Rather they're best described as the modern day viewed through a cyberpunk lens, technothrillers about coolhunters and burnt out punk rockers working for a advertising company to try and find out the deal behind a viral video series or the designer behind a secret brand of pants that may have been stolen from the US military.

On the other hand you might try The Red series by Linda Nagata, which is a sort of a 10 minutes in the future series about cyborg super soldiers dealing with a rogue AI and Metal Gear-esque terrorist plots by defense contractors.

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>just finishing up second book of Prince of Nothing
>realize Akka's name isn't Achamain
>it's fucking AchaMIAN
What a shit name, I'm glad he's getting cucked

>>9579733
I read through Dune in a couple weeks as a teenager, it's pretty accessible.

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>don't really follow or understand why Aragorn becoming king at the end of LotR is such a big deal
>read Silmarillion
>mfw I understand
>the title "Return of the King" makes so much sense

>>9578593
>they all speak very alike
Yeah no. You clearly didn't read past book 1.

>>9578500
This board is infested by self-styled intellectuals who make a point of forming contrarian beliefs about everything. You should take any criticism or praise you read here with a grain of salt because there's a very good chance it's not coming from a genuine place.

>>9577885

Brilliant but I need Blindopraxia book 3 already...

>>9579912
This is fucking 4chan, not reddit, not sa, not some whatever other bullshit where you know who someone is.
You don't know who the other nigga is, so you don't give a shit about why they think they way they do. You address the arguments being made.

>>9579912
/sffg/ isn't one person.

>>9580020
I've poked enough "arguments" made on this board to know they're mostly hot air. I don't bother engaging people who obviously have phony opinions. They just duck out of the thread whenever they get exposed anyway and resume their shitposting in a few hours pretending nothing ever happened. So I let them continue on their pretensions and I just ignore them, we both win.

>>9580084
Look at this badass crusader. You're obviously a real intellectual compared to the self styled phonies

>>9578039
>But I have been backing upto a wordpad file for a while now, and sometimes I incorporate these shorter pieces into longer articles on my wordpress
>he just doesn't want to make a goodreads
>his reviews will disappear from wordpress when he is no longer active

>>9580084
No such thing as pseudo-intellectuals and intellectuals when discussing fantasy and sci fi

>>9579298
>>9578945
>shill is trying hard but receiving no bites
>shill admitted multiple times that he hasn't read half the books he shills
>says he gets an ego rush out of making people read a book he hasn't touched

>>9577210

I haven't read Dune, but doesn't Paul Atreides endure a long period of training to become Muad'dib?

>>9578412
he's right though its considered the first or second best in the series, at least say toll the hounds or something.

Is The Blade Itself worth a read?

>>9580563
Nope for reasons already stated several times.

>>9580565
What are those reasons? I don't come to this board very often.

>>9580569
I thought that the book itself and plot was terribly drab and uninteresting aside from Glokta and the trilogy ending.

>>9579821
Over the line.

Akka is a good boy who did literally nothing wrong.

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http://blog.abalakin.de/?p=624

nice

>>9580563
It's hack with all the catchphrases and surprises. Still pretty good but you'll probably be tired of Abercrombie's shit by the end.

Is Red Rising any good?

>I think maybe what I'm looking for doesn't exist. But what's the closest thing you can think of?

The Red Rising series by Pierce Brown was perhaps one of the best scifi series I've read, it is very intense with tons of worldbuilding.

>>9580666
In my opinion it was terrible with the single exception of the second book.

>>9577110
Shitty film tbqh
Looks nice though

>>9579298
I don't really care if you're a shill or if several people have suddenly discovered Palmer, but could you at least try to have an conversation about the books? I'm not going to get interested because one post say it's fucking good.

>>9579897
BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS TAX REFORMS?

>>9580265
Wait, why did my post (>>9578945) end up here? I've read BOTNS, I'm not the Wolfe apologist who've been shilling for who knows how long.

>>9580655
>Terminus Est not rectangular

Other than that it's a pretty rad picture, I like it.

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Bookpill me on The Lies of Locke Lamora

It has a G.R.R.M. quote on the cover, should I be wary?
Is it worth reading this instead of working on my backlog because I think the title sounds cool ?

>>9580951
It's alright, the GRRM quote is pretty fitting. It's gory, "realistic", and edgy at times, but also entertaining and decently comedic. None of the characters stand out except maybe the grey king, who was totally in the right, but the plot twists are memorable.

Fuck interludes, pure hackery.

>>9580908
Not him but it's spoilery as a fuck.

He probably got to the part where it turns out that Mycroft the doting pseudo parent, accomodating doormat, apologetic overworked do gooder's past gets revealed.

And the most spoilery paragraph, arguably the best part of the book, the paragraph to end all paragraphs.

“A Servicer!” Carlyle repeated. “Servicers are supposed to be… not… not…” He turned on me, more comfortable when he could point a finger. “You! You tortured seventeen people to death! You videoed yourself vivisecting Mercer Mardi! You crucified your foster ba’pa! You dismembered a thirteen-year-old child and left them a limbless torso to freeze to death in the Arctic! Ibis Mardi was in love with you, and you beat them until they begged for death, then raped them, and cooked and ate their arms and legs while they were still alive! Are you smiling?”

There's other great spoilery things that happen, little wonderful character reveals that make absolute sense in retrospect but I don't think that anything can be discussed without major spoiler tags.

And does anyone who has read both Bester's The Stars My Destination and Palmer's Too Like the Lightning want to discuss the moment when -

Gully Foyle:
Foyle decelerated, checked Kempsey's temperature, shot an anti-shock series into his veins and waited. Blood gurgled through the pump and Kempsey's body. After five minutes, Foyle removed the oxygen mask. The respiration reflex continued. Kempsey was without a heart, yet alive. Foyle sat down alongside the operating table and waited. The stigmata still showed on his face.
Kempsey remained unconscious. Foyle waited.
Kempsey awoke, screaming.

Clearly supposed to be a parallel with

Mycroft Canner:
“You ripped out their still-beating heart and ate it!”
“It stopped beating,” I corrected softly. “I tried it seven times, but I could never get the heart out fast enough. I think that art is lost now, in our peaceful age.”


Man Foyle is fucked up in the head man but to be fair it was pretty shocking when you reach that point in both books when shit starts hitting the fan. With Foyle you definitely see it coming after he rapes that one way telepath but in Mycroft's case I suppose I assumed his crime was pretty minor because he seemed a really nice person, plus he got along well with Bridger but in hindsight all the numbers and the bleeding..

>>9580951

Its okay. The pacing is shit. Its entertaining but in 5 years you won't be re-reading it or anything.

>>9580992
>>9581012
Sounds like it's good, but not amazing, meaning plainly just not worth my time right now

Thanks lads!

>>9581047
Locke Lamora is the book version of Code Geass. Lots and lots of tight plot twists for light enjoyment.

>>9581069
I had to google Code Geass and seeing what I'm seeing now made it much less likely I will ever read Lies of Locke Lamora

>>9581074
It's the book equivalent of McDonalds.

>>9578656
Which says a lot more about Malazan than ASOIAF

>>9579903
I haven't. That's why I made a post asking if it gets any better and making my criticisms of the first one. It's a long series. I wanted to know what I was getting into.

>>9580951
i feel like for any shit grrm gets, he has a good feel for lots of scifi/fantasy stuff. iirc he's done a good job editing/putting together several anthology books

>>9581096

>shit grrm gets

I don't even know why he gets so much criticism. He's a lazy sack of shit and his prose is far from noteworthy and his worldbuilding is derivative and that's being generous; but he's an amazing storyteller. Not sure how much of a contrarian you would have to be to make the case that ASoIaF is a bad story and poorly told.

>>9581110
He's popular, he aggravate his fans by endlessly postponing his books and he's a fat ass.

>go outside /sffg/ for some non fantasy books
>browsing page 1
>Eragon sure is a good book

>>9581165
Yeah as retarded as the contrarianism and shitposting gets here sometime it's still better than asking actual normies for opinions.

>>9577210
Gordon R Dickinson's Dorsai series

What are some non-shit edgy books?
I'm talking theives, rogues, assasins, etc

>>9581218
Harry Harrison, Stainless Steel Rat

>>9581165

That's what you get. It's either people discussing shitty YA or others asking "What can I read that's like ASoIaF?" and getting The Blade Itself and Malazan as a reply.

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>>9581218

I'm confused by this post. Why are you assuming that because they have thieves or assassin's that they're edge? There's plenty of series about those sorts of people, and none of them are particularly edgy.

Anyway, if you want a truly edgy book about crazy assassins, you wouldn't go wrong with Night Lords by ADB. It's 40k-related material, but it's nothing you can't understand even if you're new to the setting. The events are pretty self-contained. Also the first book is called Soul Hunter.

Really, almost anything from the Black Library from the Chaos PoV is incredibly edgy, but this still stands out for me.

Pic very related.

>>9581236
Thieves and assassin's are edgy by nature
I'm not looking for excess edge though
Just a comfy book about some crims

>>9581240

How about Best Served Cold, then? It's by the same guy that wrote The Blade Itself, except this one is a revenge story. It's edgy enough without going over the top, and it's a standalone.

>War may be hell but for Monza Murcatto, the Snake of Talins, the most feared and famous mercenary in Duke Orso's employ, it's a damn good way of making money too. Her victories have made her popular - a shade too popular for her employer's taste. Betrayed, thrown down a mountain and left for dead, Murcatto's reward is a broken body and a burning hunger for vengeance. Whatever the cost, seven men must die.

>>9581243
Already read it.
Something in that vein though

>>9581110
>amazing storyteller
>Dany sat on her ass staring out a window eating Dates. "It's hard to be queen, I must prevent violence between my subjects." Dany ate another date.
>repeat x10 000
Dance With Dragons was abysmal. Only the first three books are readable.

All that set-set discussion in Palmer's TLtL book reminds me of that recent thread on /g/ where anons were jokingly discussing how many CPUs a human brain would have and a random fag posts this:
>CPU exist
>Why the fuck you need brain?

If there's one aspect I can criticise about both these books is that Palmer doesn't focus on STEM enough. Folks within the book are pretty critical of set-sets (human brains retrained as a kind of computer interface) that she's quite critical of (she has another character say something along the lines of - the set-sets can't change) which is kind of silly considering the fact that AIs/programs can change their inherent execution of code. Also, set-sets seem to be rooted more in mathematical concepts than in compsci terms.

The other aspect of science that she does cover is with Cato the science teacher (reminiscent of Bill Nye or those other 'child educators' rather than someone like Stephen Hawking) but he actually comments within the book that all his students want to pursue science but on the other hand science is basically redundant at this point. And later it's revealed that Cato is responsible for killing with it.

The world in this book is really fucking weird (like Of the City of the Saved if anyone except us autists have read that) because it's a more humanities focussed society (they elevate Voltaire for example and one guy is even called Voltaire Seldon) and it's very much 18th Century. It's also like high life, low tech (sure they have the set-sets and whatnot) but there is weirdly little focus on technology except the cool Utopian gear (clothes that reflect your internal world) but the author never goes into detail explaining it which is probably a good thing.

I remember going into this thinking that it would be probably a shit version of Gibson cyberpunky but weirdly it's like a humanities type future. And not in a Dan Simmons way (who if you fags have read Hyperion know that guy is fucking obsessed with Keats and making every incarnation of Keats suffer - I think one thing that makes me pissed off about the latter two stories in the Cantos is the fact that fuckers like Raul completely devalue the suffering that characters like Keats and Silenus go through). And if you guys have read Masterpieces as edited by Orson Scott Card there's a story in it by James Blisha - Work of Art featuring a very clever little short story (highly recommended if you like the Keats story line in Hyperion), that guy is obsessed with Strauss.

>>9581289
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that Palmer is way more diffuse, whereas other authors tend to be way more focussed in their obsessions. And these kinds of scifi are making me wonder exactly how limited authors are by their backgrounds.

So for example with Dan Simmons you can TELL that it's scifi written by a non STEM fag because they try to skim over and bullshit the science. Asimov you can tell it's written by a STEM fag because he's quite didactic about it and also the writing is basically plain and easy to read (just like most actual scientists try to shoot for).

Watts - I've said this before but I feel he's a bit of a contrarian. STEM has always really focussed on simplicity and he keeps going for abstract concepts. However, interestingly his science is rooted in very basic (essentially idiotproof) concepts except when he goes a bit more fantasy-esque with Rorschach. I feel like he's intentionally limiting himself. Yoon Ha Lee is another one of those intentionally going against the grain writers. Maths really values simplicity especially in the proofs of pure maths. Some of Yoon Ha Lee's prose is really simple and other bits are quite dense.

Another weird thing I think I've noticed is: does anyone think that fantasy has gone from very complicated/very dense writings to very simplistic to modern times? Writers like Sanderson are very different from Vance or Wolfe for example. But on the other hand, I have read many pieces of classic science fiction that appear to be much easier to read and much shorter than modern science fiction which appears to be trending directly for the hard scifi stuff.

>>9581165
That's why I can never leave this site no matter how badly I want to. The lack of negativity everywhere allows shit taste and stupidity to flourish. Here it at least gets stomped out almost as quickly as it springs up.

>>9581291
Anyway in any case I think it would be VERY interesting to see what someone who has equal training in both STEM and humanities would approach writing scifi since so many writers just lean one way or the other.

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>>9581295
No formal education in the humanities but Wolfe is a STEMfag who seems to know so much about religion and ancient history that you could probably call him classically educated. He doesn't write explicitly about science but when there is science in his work you can tell that he's thought it through backwards and forwards.

>>9581292
>this site
Dude, >>9580581

>>9578469
Well, I prefered the ending of fool's fate. That's a tough question, The Fitz and the Fool are more slow than the other (than aren't specially action based) but it explains some background,ends lots of plots and it's full of suffering, but not at the levels of the first books. It doesn't even brings closure in a satisfactory manner, at least to me, but there were parts than were bittersweet as fuck. Depending of what you love about them, I would say yes or no, it explores the Fool origins, why did that and what happened to him after the tawny man sufering, Fitz get some years of good live with molley, then shit happens as usual, but it's far and away from the best Robin Hobb books.

>>9581302
I suppose, too, in terms of religion, ancient history and science 'formal training' isn't necessarily needed given how much is accessible and can just be self taught (and looking at degrees as a marker of interests is a trap that one such as myself should definitely avoid.)

>>9581304
That's one thread out of 100 and probably ironic. And the replies aren't going to read like
>ZOMG ME TOO!
>Ummm... I have a PHD in literature and while Eragon is very enjoyable I think I can suggest better things for you to read. Have you ever heard of this really deep book called The Fault In Our Stars?
>this book's representations of women upset me 1/10

>>9581218
Robin Hubb Kings assasin, they can get a bit edgy but not because the assasin part. The MC suffers. A lot.And whines. A lot. But you end getting attached to him some how.

>>9581284

It was by no means abysmal. The Theon stuff in Dance of Dragons were amazing. As is Jaime's arc in FFC.

You you can generalize all you want if you're so desperate to get a (You), but you're only making a fool of yourself. Most ASoIaF are the first ones to pick on stuff like the Daenerys chapters, because they genuinely care about the story. If you had ever paid attention to any Martin thread you would see that he gets his ass torn apart for many of the developments that come after the third book.

However, I think you are stupid if you deny that he IS a good storyteller. He is able to establish character relationships very quickly and to convey the basics about the world. People only a quarter into Game of Thrones already understand what's going on, and who everyone is. In most fantasy series, it takes 600p just for the disparate narrative lines to come together and for the plot to get any real development at all. (see: Malazan)

>>9581318
Comparisons to other fantasy epics aren't really fair because the fantasy epic is probably the worst thing to ever happen to fiction. In just over the length of one of Martin's monstrosities Gene Wolfe told Book of the New Sun start to finish. Martin does a solid job of constructing rounded characters with their own views and motivations and playing them off of each other but unless the story as a whole moves somewhere it's just a soap-opera with sword-fights and above-average characterization. And even if he does manage to finish it will the story land anywhere worthwhile? To justify the page count he'll have to come up with something more profound than what the story's consisted of so far.

>>9581328
(Another anon)
And how is comparing ASoIaF to BoTNS is fair? I mean, I could find a great book half the length of BoTNS but that would not really prove anything.

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>>9581328

See, I don't think much of the Book of the New Sun simply because I find every character in it to be either completely unlikable or totally laughable (like many of the female characters). So this might be a difference in values. You can craft the most impeccable plot with clearly played-out themes, but if your characters are faggots, I simply won't care, and it will always be a 1/10 in my eyes. It's one thing if it's a novella or a movie, but if you're expecting me to put in days of reading or watching a series, then you should at least make an effort to make your characters likable. I can even put up with the main character being unlikable on purpose. But with Wolfe and many others I'm simply convinced they're far too autistic to be able to depict humans properly. Their minds aren't built for it.


Likewise, I can't say I care too much about ASoIaF coming to any particular conclusion. In theory, I'm not even opposed to him dying and leaving it unfinished, but now I am because if he doesn't give his own version, my mind is going to be burdened with D&D's shitty conclusion forever. I read genre fiction to be distracted and feel good, not to get analysis-mode on and get something out of it.

And how is comparing it to other fantasy epics unfair? That's what it is. If you picked up anything by Martin expecting a timeless work of literature, you're the one with the wrong expectations.

All I'm trying to say is that compared to other fantasy epics (WoT, Malazan, PoN), ASoIaF is clearly superior. Martin does characterization far better than the others, and he handles everything like dropping info to doing time-skips rather seamlessly. And that's as far as I'm willing to go. Outside of Tolkien, I wouldn't consider any of these highbrow authors worth taking seriously. It's just entertaining fiction.

>>9581316
Already read this too

>>9581358

Maybe it's time to broaden your horizons and read something different, anon.

>>9581335
Both are big fantasy stories. Book of the New Sun dealt with teleology, fate, faith, free will, human nature on top of being a well paced and intricately constructed adventure story with strong elements of mystery, great prose, remarkable use of first person narration and incredible imagery. So far for all of its length A Song of Ice and Fire has dealt with psuedo-medieval backstabbing politics, shitting, lemon-cakes, boiled-leather, sword-fights, battles, zombies, a handful of characters which offer interesting insights into the world around them and a grand overarching plot which might be a lot deeper than it looks on its surface but I don't think that 'CIA was actually behind everything all along' will really make the page-count worth it.

I'll still read the last two books if they ever come out but I don't expect to be one hundredth as impressed with whatever GRRM comes up with as Severian's return to the Citadel. I think that these epics are all about how the author uses the pages. I'm rereading New Sun now and it's incredible how fast it moves when you now how it all fits together. Wolfe doesn't waste a page. Every single page is pushing you towards the conclusion in some vital way, either thematically or with the plot.

>>9581350
>unlikable/laughable characters
Jonas is based (sense of humour, interesting way of speaking, most fascinating backstory in the whole book), Talos is funny in a genuinely weird way (probably because he's an intelligent character who actually has intelligence written into him, rather than just stating that he's intelligent and having him do some math or something) Baldanders is interesting (twice as much so when you read his early scenes again knowing what comes up later) and for all of his creepy autism Severian clearly wants to be a good person and his development is compelling. As for the women none of them are huge players but I don't find any laughable, especially as more is revealed about them. Thecla and Agia I find particularly interesting, and of course Dorcas takes an interesting turn down the line.
>characters are faggots
You're a faggot. And do you genuinely consider New Sun's plot to be impeccable and thematically well played-out? Because if you do I can't see how you could dislike it.

>If you picked up anything by Martin expecting a timeless work of literature, you're the one with the wrong expectations.
Why would you ever read for anything less? Yes, Martin's characterization is well beyond the anime-in-prose work of most other epic-fantasy writers but that's hardly an accomplishment.

>>9581358
Read Wolfe. Start with The Fifth Head of Cerberus.

>>9581360
Recommend me something then
>>9581364
>Read Wolfe. Start with The Fifth Head of Cerberus.
Nice meme.
Already read Wolfe, he's pretty good but his female characters are cringeworthy

>>9581370
>Already read Wolfe, he's pretty good but his female characters are cringeworthy
Read Peace, by Wolfe.

>>9581364

I never got that far, anon. I pretty much gave up BotNS at the midway point of the first one. I was hating everything I read, and after being tricked into reading so much garbage (like TNotW) I'm not the one to sacrifice my free time on recommendations simply because something MIGHT be good. I'd rather read something that's good from the start. I wasn't praising BotNS in particular, I'm just saying that no matter how good a plot is, I don't care if the characters are shallow and unlikable. And every character I experienced in the hundred or so pages I've read of that series was cancer.

>Why would you ever read for anything less?

Like I said, I'm reading this to relax and to turn my brain off. So long as the characters are enjoyable and the ride is entertaining enough to keep my interest, that's good enough for me. I'm not going into it expecting the world, as you apparently are.

>>9581387
>gave up BotNS
Please tell me that you at least gave up 'The Name of the Student Debt' faster. And Book of the New Sun is a masterpiece from the start. It blows my mind that so many people find it boring. Even without the characters just the quality of the writing and imagination behind the setting are Dying Earth-tier.

>read to turn my brain off
I can't process this. Reading is an explicitly brain-switched-on activity. If I want to switch off I come here.

>>9581393

No, that's the thing. I FINISHED that piece of shit garbage. And it triggered me so hard that I'm still salty about it, and I'd probably physically beat the shit out of Rothfuss if he ever came close to my city. I don't think anything has EVER made me that mad. I know this sounds like hyperbole, but it isn't. I truly DESPISE that work, and the ginger fuckhead that wrote it and put it out there.

>And Book of the New Sun is a masterpiece from the start.

I was enjoying it a lot until he meets some girl and ends up in some domed garden or something. I hated that character. I really did. And it all felt so aimless and almost intentionally mind-numbing that I just put it away and haven't opened it ever since. People have told me it's worth it (as I'm sure you are about to tell me). But as I've said, that bitch Rothfuss sure did a number on me, and now I'm super wary.

>I can't process this. Reading is an explicitly brain-switched-on activity. If I want to switch off I come here.

There's varying degrees, I guess. If I'm well-rested I'll probably go read some philosophy or history bullshit. But if I'm melting under the sun (as I am right now) I want to read a stupid book where I can skip entire segments and still get the gist of it.

>>9581409
Agia is based and Book of the New Sun never lingers anywhere long. Every time it seems like they've been somewhere a while the plot suddenly takes an exciting turn. No extended slow parts in Book of the New Sun. I think that the garden is fascinating but if you don't really know what to look for it might just seem like a bunch of deliberately obtuse nonsense put in for the sake of easy exoticism. The thing that makes Book of the New Sun work is that it all seems insane and disjointed at first but as you learn more and more it becomes clear that everything is connected and there for a reason and that everything that happens, no matter how weird, has a rational explanation.

Shame about reading 1000 pages of the adventures of Kvothefuss though. I can't imagine many worse uses of time.

>>9581419

You're making it sound like my first experience with The Prince of Nothing. I went on reading only because I'm not the type to abandon things. But as the trilogy came to a close, I loved it. Now I can't even imagine how I ever disliked it.

You've made me rethink TBotNS. I'll give it another shot after I finish the thing I'm reading. I hope you're not fucking.

>>9581430

fucking around with me*

>>9581430
Not the other anon but Prince of Nothing isn't easy to read, specially if you are normie. It's part of what makes it good (at least the first three books), the way the tales unfold, the fucked up characters, the way its written and makes you feel ill and nausated so many times. Bright spots like the tight and interesting setting and enjoyable ideas make it awesome, but you have to pass a lot of intended filth to get it all.

>>9581430
>>9581433
I recommend some shorter Wolfe stuff first so that you have a better idea of how to read Wolfe before going in. You really have to be in detective-mode all the time if you want to know exactly what's going on and he also likes to make constant allusions to ancient history, the western canon and occasionally to weird esoteric stuff that no sane person could know without looking up. I read 'The Fifth Head of Cerberus' and 'Peace' before Book of the New Sun and I think I was much better off for it. Both are incredibly strong standalone novels that feature the stuff I just mentioned very heavily. If you can get through them and feel like you at least kind of understood what was happening then you're probably in a spot where you can enjoy Book of the New Sun. And of course it's absolutely incredible for re-readings so you don't need to get all of it right away. Reading/watching Marc Arimini's analysis after Fifth Head and Peace might be a good way to gain an appreciation for how Wolfe constructs his work. It's amazing how intricate his work has been right from the start of his career.

>>9581444

My only real grievance remains Esmenet. I have no idea why the authors that have the best writing tend to handle female characters so poorly. The series consisted of the male cast extolling her supposed intellect, only for you to cringe whenever she devised a plan, took any kind of action, or just opened her mouth.

>>9581447

So, start with Fifth Head first? Or Peace?

>>9581468
Fifth Head was Wolfe's breakout work, start with that. I usually go through authors by publication order. So Fifth Head, Peace, Book of the New Sun, then you can read Wolfe's true masterpiece, 'The Devil In A Forest.'

>>9581468
Yep, it tends to happen. It's kinda of a shame, I really can say than I like lots of female characters in fantasy. Polgara from the Belgariath, Moraine from The wheel of time and a few more than more than liking I tolerated.
Also I can be the only one than noticed the fall on quality with the second series, I don't know if it's only because there is more esmenet/Daughter, the boring males PoV or what, but man it's a lot harder to read than the first ones for the wrong reasons. I stopped when Kekus buggered Proyas. Enough is enough,there are other ways to fuck with people minds than anal rape, fucking bakker, I can see him Fapping furiously at that.

>>9581468
It goes beyond Esmenet in my opinion, her thinking with her cunt is pretty glaring, but the series is actually just misanthropic on the whole

>>9581564

I agree with you. There was another anon telling me he prefers Aspect-Emperor for the Lovecraftian elements of the Nonmen cities. Personally, I hate the added characters. Kellhus' brood and the new cuckboy are insufferable. And when Achamian slept with Esmenet's daughter that was the last straw as far as my acceptance of him went. Instead of growing wiser in years, he seems to have gotten dumber. The excessive focus on Esmenet and Momemn doesn't appeal to me either. I wish that instead of the new cuckboy, we would've gotten a legitimately cool new character. Even Mimara would've been acceptable, if she hadn't been made into a hentai slut. The constant cucking is reaching the absurd. I was watching some YouTube video where Bakker talks about his writing, and he prefaces by saying cuckolding is the pillar of literature or something. For the record, anon, it was worth sticking with the third book until the end because (and these are spoilers for you, not others) Kellhus activates a nuke, and Cnaiur finally appears at the end.

>>9581570

No doubt. But it's undeniable that the females are getting a worse treatment than the men. Even crazies like Conphas possessed an interesting layer. I remember a part where he's so mad that he thinks reality can only be defined by his subjective whims, or something like that. But the female cast? Esmenet is an inimical whore, and pretty stupid despite the hype. And Serwe is only a target of abuse. In general the women are portrayed as being either useless and stupid, or (supposedly) intelligent, at which point they start the cucking.

>>9581589
>>9581589
>In general the women are portrayed as being either useless and stupid, or (supposedly) intelligent, at which point they start the cucking
Eh, there is a bunch of books that give women a fair shake, even when they are main character, but they all share one similarity - being female is not the primary characteristic of the character. Whenever women are written as, well, women, it goes to shit with near absolute certanty.

>>9581589
>I was watching some YouTube video where Bakker talks about his writing, and he prefaces by saying cuckolding is the pillar of literature
Fucking disgusting, and that's only one of the diverse fetishes than he dares to say loud.
A nuke, like a machine nuke or some kind of nuke spell? And Cnaiur? That is good news at least. I will wait to the release of the next book and re read it all tough, I need to refresh and remember why I liked the books after the shit house than were the last two books.

>>9581596

You realize I was talking about Bakker alone, right? I think Martin does some -emphasis on some - female characters pretty well. Catelyn was unlikable, but she did strike me as a real woman in thinking. And I absolutely loved Cersei and Brienne.

And then you have other writers like Sapkowski who write about women from a very... Geralt-centric angle, to say the least; but he's clearly familiar enough with real life relationships to make them feel like genuine human beings.

I mean, that's what bothers me fundamentally: that these characters don't feel real. If you want to be a pervert and wrote a book full of big-tittied waifus or whatever, go ahead. Gatari does it well enough. Gender issues don't concern me as such. What triggers me is when a female appears in a novel, and the author seems so confused about how to portray her that she comes across as a fucking alien. The most pathetic authors are those that are so insecure about adding a female character in the first place, that they try to compensate by making them not only hyper-rational and aggressive like alpha males, but also Paul von Neumann tier intellects.

>>9581616

If I remember correctly it's definitely not a spell. I just can't remember right now where he finds it. I pretty much blasted through the book when it came out and parts of the narrative are fuzzy. Also, I had the same thought last fall. That I would re-read everything starting with TDtCB. I must say, I did not enjoy Aspect-Emperor any more the second time around. I can't say I would willingly reread White-Luck Warrior a third time.

>>9581318
>(see: Malazan)
Aaaaand he's back.

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>>9581659

>>9581640
If there is one thing that anime does better than books it's female characters.

>>9581640
>You realize I was talking about Bakker alone, right?
Nope, sometimes one walks into a thread and fails to get properly acquainted before replying, my pardon.

>Catelyn was unlikable, but she did strike me as a real woman in thinking. And I absolutely loved Cersei and Brienne.
To me it only serves to reinforce my perception - They are a mother, as in head of family, a queen, as in a leader, and a knight. While they are all female, it informs their character, but doesn't serve as a foundation there of.

>The most pathetic authors are those that are so insecure about adding a female character in the first place, that they try to compensate by making them not only hyper-rational and aggressive like alpha males, but also Paul von Neumann tier intellects.
Mary sues can happen to both genders, but I get what you mean.

All in all I genuinly think it's a problem with the genre itself, as it attracts more man than women and produces a rather biased host of writers with rather limited perspective. The fact that all so many female writers that come into the genre focus on this or that social issue at the expense of good story telling doesn't help.

>>9581640
>What triggers me is when a female appears in a novel, and the author seems so confused about how to portray her that she comes across as a fucking alien.
They're probably afraid of summoning the wrath of the feminist. Same with you hardly ever seeing black villains.

>>9581672

>Mary sues can happen to both genders, but I get what you mean.

I know, but I mostly mean when the SO of the MC is depicted. To be fair, I'm sure women are guilty of this too. I doubt all those vampire novels are full of strong females leads and lifelike, average, believable men.

>All in all I genuinly think it's a problem with the genre itself, as it attracts more man than women and produces a rather biased host of writers with rather limited perspective.

Is it, though? It's one thing if you're putting a titty monster in there to please your audience, and it's another if you're just incapable of writing the opposite gender. The fact that the main characters are males that desire females could be explained by the preponderance of male readers; but those female characters being the way they are can only be explained by a deep unfamiliarity with women, or >>9581674 as anon suggests.

>>9581683
>only be explained by a deep unfamiliarity with women
I mean, this is utterly unsurprising tho. Tastes inform, and are informed by, lifestyle, and stereotypical nerd virgin hasn't become stereotupical out of thin air. Many of the writers are just such man, who managed to make a career out of that.

Tho I'm sure in the era of polical correctness and regressive politics >>9581674 has a point.

>>9581671
Some* japs seem to have a better understanding of the "different but equal" concept. A lot of the same problems like overly masculine or sexualized personalities are prevalent though so I dunno.
>>9581674
The men in vampire novels are hilariously bad, gruff jerk with a shitty past but a heart of gold dialed up to eleven and the MC has to "save" him with her sass. The women are shit too though so probably not a good genre to extrapolate from

Saw posts about Robin Hobb earlier. I've read Farseer before. Should I continue straight on to Fitz and Fool or should I read the other stuff she did first? Ship of Magic and whatnot first?

>been dumped recently
>pretty fucking brutal
>bury myself in books
>Speaker for the dead
>qoute: "He had thought that he valued his solitude; now, though, with solitude forced upon him, he felt an urgent need to talk, to be heard by someone, as if he could not be sure he even existed without someone's conversation as evidence."
>me to a fucking t.
Why do you do this to me books?

>>9581706
It all just depends on the author ultimately I suppose. With books it's harder to sell sex because ultimately the medium is textual and all the characters look however the readers decide they look

How's your novel going?

>>9581719
>and all the characters look however the readers decide they look
Yeah, if the authors are shit.
>leave it up to the reader meme

>>9581719
>with books it's harder to sell sex
Thank god for that desu. Fanservice is cancer, it kills immersion so quickly.
>>9581726
Detailed character appearance descriptions are often a sign of a bad writer in my opinion.

>>9581726

I think it depends on how early on you get them. If I'm reading and the looks of the character are well-defined from the first encounter, I'm going to picture them that way. But if I already formed an appearance in my mind and the author decides to describe them after two more chapters then they can fuck off.

>>9581726
My head is my sinful private place. I imagine characters however I damn well like them.

>>9581737
>the author decides to describe them after two more chapters then they can fuck off.
Exactly.

>>9581731
>Thank god for that desu. Fanservice is cancer, it kills immersion so quickly.
Thank god fanservice has fucked off to its own cancerous genre known as erotica.

>>9581740

>Thank god fanservice has fucked off to its own cancerous genre known as erotica.

I wonder what it is about writing a story about sex that kills people's heads. I think I'm a decent writer, but whenever I've tried my luck at writing anything resembling erotica it was just the worst thing ever. Harry Potter fanfic tier.

>>9581752
I feel abjectly stupid when describing handholding. Perhaps I'm just too autistic and I wouldn't ben interested in writing it anyway.

>>9581758

I think the problem for me is that there's certain ideas I'm so familiar with that I can no longer pen them down properly. It's impossible to see them from another angle and communicate them. One of the reasons I enjoy writing without planning is because it's easy to tell what details are important, since I'm having the same exploratory experience as the reader will later on. Whereas in the other case, it's just this holistic experience that's very difficult for me to pin down to particulars, and it always feels false upon rereading.

>>9581752
I mean, when you are in any way sexually aroused, and imagining sex in detail is a surefire way to get yourself fired up, your attention span, no matter how old and wise you are, is reduced to that of a horny teenager. This is just human nature.

>>9581763
>experience that's very difficult for me to pin down to particulars
Oh definitely. Someone needs to create a thought translator.

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Peter Watts is a shitty writer but his ideas and stories are great. Blindsight was a chore to read.

>>9581789
>Peter Watts is a shitty writer but his ideas and stories are great.
His ideas are definitely worth the prose, but I don't think that the prose is too bad.

>>9581316
Stop recommending this shit. HE DOESN'T ASSASSINATE ANYONE.

>>9581358
Night Angel Trilogy
House of Blades
Both are a trilogy, so should keep you entertained.

>>9581789
He just writes like a scientist, it's not exactly taxing. I mean I'm in science so maybe that made it a little easier for me.

>>9581721
No great, this week was when I meant to crack down on the start but loads of shit's turned up.

Why Simmons doesn't write sf anymore? Hyperion and Ilium were his best books. And best selling too.

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Malazan Haters btfo, Erikson predicted that you brainlets wouldn't be able to understand in his introduction, you should have dropped the book then and there, you obviously weren't capable of understanding it.

>>9581890
Please stop. We know you've never read Malazan and are pretending to be an idiot to rile people up. Go find another board to spend your yuk-yuk time.

>>9581589
In general, Bakker creates the world and circumstances and envisions what characters become through these environs. That's why serwe and esmenet are the way they are. There is even another layer of inversion in the uplifting of esmenet by kellhus, because on the surface it seems like empowerment. There's a point in PoN where Kellhus argues that whores are actually the pivot of weaker men because men who use whores are slaves to their desires. And then he makes a poignant argument for gender equality. But this empowerment is turned on its side because it's Kellhus doing this. This is a Kantian supposition because it seems like you're supposed to see that there is no moral value in Kellhus's intentions. But there is something to be said from Kellhus arguments for gender equality. So there's a paradox and contradiction that the reader needs to resolve.

I find it interesting, but predictable, that everyone begrudges Esmenet for who she is, especially in aspect emperor. People don't like characters that can't seem to control their circumstances, and that's what esmenet has become. After 20 years and even knowing what Kellhus is! I'm definitely in that same camp, but am also waiting to see the end of her arc before seeing if there's something missing. Or maybe someone else has a different critical reading of her in aspect emperor.

But I like Miamara. I don't care that she's a "hentai slut" because I don't see sex as a measure of weakness. It's a sexy femme fatale is a trope for sure, but Miamara is different because of her judging eye and her begrudging nature.

>>9581905
I've read the whole series and am on a reread, Nothing I said there was wrong.

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>>9581640
Why is it that do I'm imagining a female typing this post?

>>9581589
>kellhus
You sure he did it?

>>9581616
Pic related.

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>>9581721
Wrong thread faggot.

>>9581908

I don't think my dislike for Esmenet has anything to do with her being powerless or delusional. Achamian is arguably worse on both of those accounts, especially when you take in the fact that he's a schoolman. I just think Esmenet has a rotten soul. She's not a person I would want to associate with.

As for Mimara, that's not what I mean either. She could sleep with the whole of Earwa if her pussy is that useful. I just hate that Bakker went out of his way to find a reason for her to sleep with Akka, who was not only an old man now, but an unlikable and powerless cuck.

My problem with these complex justifications as to why x or y is this way rather than another is that they don't solve anything. Yes, there is a reason for why women in Bakker's work are presented as subhuman, and I'm sure you can write highbrow interpretations about it. But it doesn't change the fact that he consciously chose to craft a setting that their subjugation and inferiority at the forefront.

>>9581929

I'm not a female. Seriously, I'm not. And, yeah, I don't remember exactly what happens with the nuke. Like I told the other anon, I was so excited when I got the book that I basically skipped a night's sleep to get to the ending before heading out the next morning. Do you remember what happened, exactly?

>read entire thread
>took me more than 3 hours
>walls of text everywhere

>>9581890
>Literally "Do my job for me"
wew

>>9581949

I still can't decide who is more arrogant and worthy of hate: Erikson or Rothfuss?

>>9581944
>Do you remember what happened, exactly?
The picture in >>9581929 describes the scene perfectly, I only put an actual nuke instead of the floating sarcophagus thing.
If you read the book it would become clear. It's one of those you need forehand knowledge to truly understand it.

>>9581963

Ah, shit. Now that you said the word sarcophagus it all came back to me.

>>9581954
Rothfuss. If you say Erickson you are looking to stir shit up, or dropped the series.
Like a lot of faggots in this general, fighting tooth and nail defending their opinion only to admit that they only read a few chapters. I guess that makes them fucking experts.

>>9581890
There was a point in book 3 where the leaders of a coalition assembled and basically dickrided each other on honor and tactical prowess, and I remembered that this has happened constantly throughout the books. There are few protagonist characters that are truly unique and go against the grain (Felisin and Karsa), so there are exceptions. But there aren't enough of them to be interesting. There's too many martyrs and reluctant noble heroes. I like characters like Felisin because they are frustrating to deal with. They're not necessarily sympathetic, and they feel real because they begrudge the world because she had no real choice in being who they are. I hate characters like Whiskeyjack, Dujek, Itkhovian, Gruntle, Paran, Bridgeburners, Brood, Icarium, Mappo, Fiddler, Crokus, Apsalar, Duiker, Coltaine, etc etc because they're all basically the same archetypes.

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>>9581972

>>9581944
There is something to be said about making a world where the character becomes empowered despite the world vs having a world where the character is just normally empowered because of the world. One speaks better about feminism, whereas the other is masturbatory and says nothing about feminism.

And Bakker didn't go out of his way for Miamara to do that. Achamians character is a perfectly believable consequence for who he is. Which is someone who has been tortured in his sleep for an entire lifetime, found the savior of the world only to be betrayed by him, and found the love of his life only to be betrayed by her.

>>9581987

>this is a feminist work
>so i'm going to show you how this brainless retard gets propped up as empress because of her magical cunt
>these are the mental gymnastics i'm willing to go through

And of course he went out of his way to do that. Are you serious? Have you forgotten what author we're talking about? This isn't a one time thing. He's been shoving his fetishes in there from the very start. All it takes is the smallest opening and Bakker will make the best of it so he can write about cucking and strong black cum.

>>9581944
>I'm not a female.
...maybe you want to be one? Do you browse lgbt a lot and use "laughing at the freaks" as an excuse?

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>>9577079
Did the gooks really made the film? Is it just as lame. long and boring as the book?

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>>9582007

I only browse /his/ and /lit/. And I go on /an/ for the invertebrate general.

>>9582006
>so i'm going to show you how this brainless retard gets propped up as empress because of her magical cunt
I found this line hillarious. I also don't think you and the poster you are responding to disagree.

On topic - has there been any decent sci-fi releases in 2017 yet?

>>9581944
>just
Mimara was a loli whore. She took dick multiple times a day, everyday since she was young. She had to put up with some natsy shit as a child whore. Her doing the nasty with her "daddy" is nothing out of character. She was taught at a young age the only things useful about her was her 3 holes. She used those to influence things in her favor.

>>9582007
>...
>lgbt, pol
Oh the newfag cunt is back.

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>tfw you realize all science fiction and fantasy is shit

>>9581977
Wtf does this even mean?

>>9582007
You're reading "female" because of all the qualifiers. Women tend to use more qualifiers and interject more asides into their sentences because they're taught from a young age that society doesn't like it if women seem too assured or are too blunt.

>>9582042
Jesus christ man don't overdose on the dogma.

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>>9582016
I used to browse /an/ too. I'm the one that used to do pic related when people posed with animals, I also used to shoop people's lizard tails into frying pans with butter and onions...
I left when the bleeding heart mod there banned me for a month (or 2 can't remember) for making a joke about some guy and his dog (basically sleep with his dog). If they so serious I can't hang out there. Haven't been there in years. Are you that bugguy faggot that gets btfo on a regular basis?

On a side note. I'm seeing what I did in pic related years ago is now some filter in facebook or w/e privacy invasion platform the proles are using.

>>9582024
>on 4chan since 2006
>get called a newfag then
>11 years later
>still get called newfag
Okay

>>9582053

Naaah, I never post on /an/ at all, and like I said, I keep away from everything that isn't the invertebrate general. Since I don't keep any insects myself and I'm not knowledgeable on the topic, there's not much to say. But I've always been autistic about world-building, so that's led me down a lot of strange rabbit holes. I always promised myself that if I wrote a fantasy novel I would stress the natural aspects more. It's annoying to me when I read a novel and the author talks about traveling through the forest and/or sleeping outdoors as if it's comfy, and never mentions any of the negative aspects (and it's mostly negative, I say this from experience). Pretty sure they're getting their descriptions of nature from MMO zones.

>>9582007
>Projecting THIS hard

>>9582092
Naw. If s(he) wants to be a woman I would fug (he)r once the hormones, long hair and breast augmentation went through, and if they looked like a female. There is just something about fucking males that failed at life so much they had to be female. I'm not even attracted to dicks, just knowing they were once male, and a failed one at that gets me off. (it does help that they put more work into being female than real females, and I can't get them pregnant.)

>>9582068
Don't post there, one misstep and they ban you from all boards.

>>9581350
pleb

>>9581861
Poor Simmons, he thought of muslims and went insane.

Oh Bakker found some free time and is shitposting again

>>9582014
>three body
>boring

Brainlet detected.

>>9582196
I'm bakker and that bakker was not me.

>>9582196
Oh shit. You caught me posting on a Tibetan cave painting forum.

Remember to buy The Unholy Consult (tm) on July 4!

>>9582235

Speaking of which, is that nigger going to release it in physical form only again? Holy shit, that's annoying. I have to pay so much for shipping expenses due to where I live.

>>9582244
No it's out on amazon kindle too

EU dates might be different because fuck Europe

>>9582142
>Naw. If s(he) wants to be a woman I would fug (he)r once the hormones, long hair and breast augmentation went through, and if they looked like a female. There is just something about fucking males that failed at life so much they had to be female. I'm not even attracted to dicks, just knowing they were once male, and a failed one at that gets me off. (it does help that they put more work into being female than real females, and I can't get them pregnant.)
I think you are doing a little more then just projecting...
Good lord, traps are gay.

>>9582035
read malazan.

>>9582014
I'm probably going to watch it, but I'm not sure how it'll carry across.

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Idle Days On The Yann (1910) is a picturesque short story by Lord Dunsany. There is little dialogue, little plot and structure, only the narrator's recollection of a dream where he sails on a merchant ship down a broad river in a fantastical landscape. He is acquainted with the captain and the crew and observes their customs as well as the diverse cities and geography they sail by. The prose is reflective, visual and reads like a folk tale or piece of oral storytelling, not the King James Bible vernacular Dunsany is commonly associated with. I suppose this is a direct influence on Lovecraft's dream cycle, but this reads more smoothly and lucidly. I was also reminded of Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities. This is more of a fifteen page prose poem than a short story but it deserves full marks. Great summer evening reading. 5/5.

>>9579624
The first one is for sure a really cool noir story. Feels really well thought out, the other 2 are cool but aren't even a little bit the same, drops the noir like a hot potato.

>>9582290
Once you don't touch the dick it's okay.
>if it looks like duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and wants male dick like a duck bitch, it's a duck

You new fags sell yourselves out. If you've been on 4chan long enough traps entice you. Look at linetrap.

>>9583210
>You new fags sell yourselves out. If you've been on 4chan long enough traps entice you
Five years in, they're as disgusting as ever. Seek help.

I'm looking for something fun and interesting about time travel. I want the characters to meddle in the distant past and then see how the present or future world changes as a result of it. Bonus points if their past adventures become warped into myths and legends after so much time. Does anything like that exist?

>>9583307
Lots of things. Try Timeline by Crichton, and A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court by Twain.

New to sci fi and fantasy here. Should I follow the flowchart or start with something else? Was thinking Dune.

>>9583317
Just read whatever looks interesting.

>>9581305

Thanks.

I think I'll pass and just keep things as they were in Fool's Fate. I fucking love Farseer/Tawny Man, but she's so hit and miss with the rest.

>>9582006
I mean I don't disagree. I don't think Esmenet's exactly a feminist icon either, but the story isn't over yet. My point is that depictions of feminism shouldn't just be self-masturbatory. And it doesn't necessarily need to be a one dimensional empowerment story. It could be a discussion of "this is fucking shitty, and look how terrible we are".

Although I'm not insecure about his fetishes, so I don't really give a shit about all the cucking and black cum. I always viewed it as a way of depicting the ugly side of sex. To sicken or disgust the reader about the characters involved.

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>>9583001
Oh fuck off with your word play and poems.

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>>9583238
>implying you didn't think this was a chick and got fooled and slowly got mkultra into trannies

Wow. So now that no one is Fighting over books they may have or haven't Read no one is Fighting?
This place only comes Alive when Fighting takes place?

What are you Guys Reading?
I'm going to start Legend, which was Memed multiple times here.

>>9583815
Legend is good. It's simple but there's nothing offensive about it.

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>time to stimulate conversation

>>9584181
absolutely disgusting

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>>9584181
>what did he mean by this?

>>9582068
>the author talks about traveling through the forest and/or sleeping outdoors as if it's comfy, and never mentions any of the negative aspects (and it's mostly negative, I say this from experience)
Maybe they're going for characters who aren't bitchpussies like you.

>>9577210
Wise Man's Fear ;)

>>9584439
>about women, for women, by a woman
>no Swastika Night
Gay

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>>9584439
He didn't mean anything

>>9584453
Being outdoors in certain conditions for prolonged periods of time without adequate mosquito protection is basically like having chicken pox. It's not fun

>>9583307
book of the new sun

>>9584575
Not that anon, Book of the New Sun's time travel is so obscure that you could forgive somebody for not even realizing that it's present at all on their first reading. It's also fucking incredible though.

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I'm halfway through Edgar Rice Burroughs' A Princess Of Mars. This doesn't feel like a book from 1912 . The prose is fast paced and clear, with a good amount of action sequences and exoticism.

>>9584181
anybody wanna convince me which audible series to listen to next? just finished relistening to the three body trilogy and I'm working on the prince of nothing trilogy again...but I want something new! is the coldfire series any good? R C Bray is a pretty good narrator.

>>9584663
>I'm working on

you are listening to genre fiction you lowlife

>>9584460
Objection noted.

>>9584794
I'd like to believe that but nobody ever notes Katherine Burdekin. She didn't come up with any meme-terms which people who couldn't be bothered to actually read her work could abuse so her dystopia didn't have lasting value.

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>>9584650

>>9584902
I don't get it, half of those are shit and half are among the best. What kind of next level play is this? Is this one of those memes where the punchline is that you're retarded but not really?

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How do i go about writing cosmic horror and getting it published?

>>9584930
Write short stuff with simple Twilight-Zone plots at first and just spam them at places where they might seem applicable until one sticks. If you keep at it you're bound to make it. As long as you keep looking for feedback and refining your work based on that you're bound to get there eventually.

Midnight Tides is literally the best book in the series.

>>9584902
This a bait image due to several notably contentious inclusions, most likely created by a troll or literary ideologue. Nevertheless, I'd like to know the rationale behind his singling out of Dying Earth, Fafhrd+GM, as well as Barsoom. ASOIAF, too, has much to recommend it in those first two books. The overall impression is of an opinionated reader who dislikes adventure writing, active protagonists, love interests and action sequences. Caveat; I've yet to read Lynch, Scalzi, Lawrence, Abercrombie and others.

>>9583725
I didn't. I can actually tell males and females apart. You're just gay.

>>9584930
>read HPL, REH, CAS
>take stock of their reoccurring tropes and motifs; atavism, pre-human races, past lives, pagan rites, planet portals, time travel, lost civilisations, degeneration, miscegenation, ancient aliens, dangerous/occult knowledge, strange artifacts.
>plot outline 10-30 page stories, the length of most key texts of weird fiction,
>bash it out

Use your own natural and strongest style + voice. It doesn't have to be in the first person or use a distinct vocabulary. As I see it weird fiction, going back to the weird tales set, is very diverse in terms of prose as well as setting; historical, contemporary, secondary worlds, science fiction.

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>>9584930
Like clockwork. Stop molesting my daughter.

>>9584997
So if I find Bailey jay attractive... but not Buck Angel, I'm gay?

>>9583317
Fantasy is trash. Start with hard sci fi.

>>9585082
I don't even know who they are, but if you all are men, you are gay.

>>9583317

It depends. If you're a scientifically-minded person, you should go with sci-fi. If you're more of a humanities guy, stick with fantasy.
And there are some that are a blend of both. Dune is probably a good place to start. Then you have Book of the New Sun, Prince of Nothing...
Just go with what your heart tells you and don't let any of the faggots in this thread convince you that x or y is bad before you've tried it yourself.
There's very few works that /sffg/ hate or love unanimously. The Name of the Wind is the only one that 99,999% of the people on here despise with a passion.

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>>9585103

What if you're a person that's mainly attracted to fit tomboys? Is that gay? Pic very related.

>>9585119
If they're as fit as Buck Angel you might be a mighty homo

>>9585119
It's simple.
Are you attracted to the opposite sex? You're straight.
Are you attracted to the same sex? You're gay.

>>9585127
>Buck Angel
>tomboy

>>9585133
yeah, that's the joke. what about it?

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>>9585093
only good bit of advice all thread

>>9585323
Hard SF is for STEM autists who can't into character

>>9584829
Still, you'd think the "cult of Hitler" bits would have stuck in people's minds

>>9585093
I'm STEM and I prefer scifantasy

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This premise actually looks pretty good.

>>9585327
hard sf is for failed STEM autists who don't care about some hack author reintroducing you to characters they've read before in better literature

>>9585346
Sounds dumb.

>>9585407
>tfw you will never steal a rare book

>>9585333
The cult idea is pretty meme-tastic but when the novel actually presents it it doesn't seem that far-fetched. Von Hess and Alfred's conclusion that Germany's women were responsible for their own downfall by placing more value on their mens' perception of themselves than their own is just as profound as Orwell and Huxley's best points but it's delivered through a conversation. If she'd given the issue a slogan she might be taught in high schools today. It's certainly stuck in my mind but the book just seems to have faded into obscurity despite its strong content.

>>9585346
That sounsd awful.

Where can I pirate audiobooks?
I usually use big torrent sites, but I couldn't find The Darkness That Comes Before on any of them.

>>9577210
Sword of truth

Any non conventional fantasy series worth reading?

I feel like everything is the same generic shit nowadays. What happened to authors with great imagination?

>>9585412
To be fair the only reason I know about it is because Mieville put it on a "50 recommended" list a few years ago (along with more typical choices like Gormenghast and Fifth Head of Cerberus)

>>9585444
>but I couldn't find The Darkness That Comes Before on any of them

That should be an omen to you.

just read house on the borderlands lads

>>9585571
Try Jack Vance. For straighter fantasy with real inspiration and talent behind it try Lyonesse or for something truly imaginative go straight for Tales of the Dying Earth.

>>9585572
>Mieville
I've never read that guy but his influences sound patrician to the max. A fair amount of genre authors have praised Book of the New Sun but him and Le Guin are the only writers I know of who seem to particularly like The Fifth Head of Cerberus. I don't even remember how I heard about Swastika Night, I think it may have come up in a discussion about Margaret Atwood and The Handmaiden's Tale at some point but I'm not really sure.

Anyone got a chart for /sffg/ cult classics? Otherwise just throw some recommendations at me for cult fantasy/sci-fi

>>9585590
>Try Jack Vance. For straighter fantasy with real inspiration and talent behind it try Lyonesse or for something truly imaginative go straight for Tales of the Dying Earth.

I don't even care if you mock me, but of all the series I've read (I admit I haven't read that many) Only The Stormlight Archive hinted some imagination that pleased me.

>>9585590
Much like Wolfe, he occasionally overdoes it with purple prose, but he's pretty much unparalleled in complicated city settings and weird nonhuman races (he'd be a good suggestion for >>9585571, come to think of it).

>>9585592
Nine Hundred Grandmothers - R. A. Lafferty (extremely well written short fiction with a Catholic theme)
The Circus of Dr Lau - Charles G Finney (excellent magical realism, very funny and weird)
Legend - David Gemmel (popular in /sffg/ lately, maybe it can become our new meme book)
A Voyage to Arcturus - David Lyndsay (philosophical adventure with a genuinely alien tone, Harold Bloom approved)
The Iron Dream by Adolph Hitler - Norman Spinrad (very interesting pulp meta-novel exploring the link between fascism and our baser desires)
Biography of the Life of Manuel - James Cabell (honestly too high brow for these threads but maybe somebody capable of appreciating it is here and has never heard of it. It's forgotten for its length and ambition, not its quality. It's fantastically written.)
The Last Unicorn - Peter S. Beagle (A very funny and sad book about dealing with death and the ephemerality of existence).
The Man Who Was Thursday - G. K. Chesterton (everyone should read this, great detective story and a fantastic Christian message delivered in a natural way)

That'll do it for now. If one anon reads one of these I'll feel like I accomplished something.

>>9585603
>Wolfe
>purple prose
>Wolfe being flawed in any way
heresy

>>9585600
maybe some nice animes would be more your speed. Have you ever seen Outlaw Star? I'm particularly fond of that one.

>>9585616
thank you my man

>>9585616
Well, specifically the use of archaic & otherwise nonstandard words - I remember seeing "heresiarch" in Kraken and thinking it was very much a Wolfe thing. It gets out of hand more in Railsea where he goes "I'm going to use ampersands for every instance of the word 'and', even at the start of sentences, because the symbol's shape represents the circuitous nature of train tracks".

>>9583307
11/22/63 by Stephen King is a pretty good time travelling story.

>>9585616
>maybe some nice animes would be more your speed. Have you ever seen Outlaw Star? I'm particularly fond of that one.

I can't stand anime. Too slow and shallow.

>>9584650
I wish I could just write shit like this.

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>>9585663
>going to use ampersands for every instance of the word 'and', even at the start of sentences, because the symbol's shape represents the circuitous nature of train tracks
This made me laugh far harder than I should have.

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>>9585796
Maybe you aren't watching the right anime.

>>9585796

I know that feel, anon. Going back to anime tier animation after you've started reading is very hard. It's like going from touching yourself to getting jerked off by a very rough, yet slow robot. Setting your own pace is so much more satisfying.

What's your opinion on Elric of Melnibone?

>>9585818
I am a slow reader. I absolutely love the pleasure of reading a page slowly, trying to find hidden hints and clues for what might be coming. Even movies don't satisfy me nowadays.

>>9583317
>>9585109
>Dune is probably a good place to start
>don't let any of the faggots in this thread convince you that x or y is bad before you've tried it yourself
Also don't let anyone convince you that certain books are good places to start. When someone suggests you a book, you go and do some research (obviously you fucking idiot). You don't take anyone's word as law here.

I can't believe brainlets complain about books when a look at the blurb, look at the genre listings, and a look at some 1 star and 5 stars reviews on goodreads would educate you as much as possible as to what book to read. Hell, Amazon even allows you to read the first chapter. No one should complain that they were tricked. You don't go and run to a dealership because someone told you a 1992 mazda beats all the 2017 cars. Just like you don't run to the fucking bookstore because someone told you name of the wind, and book of the sun are the best books ever. You research.

>>9585352
>>9585327
Hard sci-fi is for autists who can't read about a futuristic novel that takes place in 3073, where people are able to store solar energy in liquid, without the science matching to current 2017 discoveries..

>>9585905
>no won told me reading malazan would be hard it sux. I skipped the introduction btw.


If anybody thought this was going to be one of those books where they could just skip all those silly poems and rhymes and epigrams at the front of chapters, let me just point them to these few lines from the fragment of “Call to Shadow” that opens the prologue:

The Emperor is dead So too his master’d companion, the rope cut clean. But mark this burgeoning return…

>>9585616
>The Last Unicorn
Oh I read it.. And if you were the cunt that was shilling it last year I want to ring your neck.

>>9585905
>Just like you don't run to the fucking bookstore because someone told you name of the wind, and book of the sun are the best books ever.
Speak for yourself. Most books are an investment of a few bucks, being mistaken a couple of times doesn't matter.

Most of the time I just read the e-book until I decide that I like the book/series enough to buy the physical book or just order the physical book right away if it looks interesting enough.

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>>9585905

>run to the fucking bookstore
>buying books

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>>9585905
>buying books
>owning physical copies of any media

>>9586037
Yes. It's fun to buy books.

>>9586009
That's all fine and dandy, but keep your autistic screeches to yourself when you blindly go and pick up a book, because some fag on a literature board who does nothing but meme, waxes poetic about the world and the philosophical and religious implications that x book has. Fuck off with your whining.

>>9586234

When he whining? You're frankly retarded.

>>9586234
>Fuck off with your whining.
Are you retarded?
This thread is about the discussions about works of scifi and fantasy.

An integral part of that is people talking about whether they did or didn't like certain books and why.

The point of it all is to enable people to pick new books to read based on what they did or did not like in other books and discuss this with like-minded individuals.

I seriously doubt you understand what "discussion" is about when you are telling people not to complain.

I also didn't once "whine" about anything and I rarely see such a thing happen here.
Most people just have calm discussions.

>>9586251
>>9586246
Are the two of you retarded? I was talking to the thread as a whole. People come in here and say that "sffg" suggested them "this" book, when the book in question is one that an autist was shilling hard. They then start to shit post, and blame the general as a whole because we didn't countermand the anon's recommendation. That is why I said do the fucking research before you read.

>>9586296
And there is LITERALLY NOTHING wrong with that.

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>>9586296

So? It's pretty obvious that if you want to be a part of the community it's impossible to put aside all the books people are talking about. If there's three threads in a row with people talking about Malazan, you're going to think that maybe it's time for you to give it a shot. And if it's shitty, maybe you come back and advise them to end their lives.

But the truth is, this doesn't happen very often. Maybe when a new series comes out or a person that's unfamiliar with /sffg/ comes in all clueless and starts asking what to read.

Usually, people just say they want a book that contains x or y element, and then people dump titles out of which they can pick.

I'm also pretty sure that the vast majority of the "/sffg memed me into reading x" posts are just people shitposting, since that phrase has become a meme in and of itself.

>>9586328
Fucking trannies gonna turn me gay.

>>9585444
audiobookbay to / audiobookle com
has what you need

>>9586375

>tranny

??

>>9585571
Iron Dragon's Daughter.

Since we're coming up on a new thread and it's a new month, could we please add links to new releases lists to the OP?

eg:
http://www.tor.com/2017/05/31/all-the-new-fantasy-books-coming-out-in-june/
http://www.tor.com/2017/06/01/new-science-fiction-books-june-2017/

>>9586600

>ctrl+f
>no crimson king

When will they learn...

>>9586600
We're on page 9. Why don't you give it a try?

File: 1495095472001[2].jpg (103KB, 1024x683px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 1024x683px

>>9586600
> What happened to hard science fiction? I miss books as thought experiments, written by scientists who know what they are talking about and have some crazy unique ideas. All those above sound like yet another space adventure, entertaining and forgetable. None of these novels is even remotely interesting to me + they’re parts of series which makes them even less interesting. Bring back original ideas and stand-alone novels before the entire genre is destroyed by boredom.

>>9577079
Hi /sffg/ I really want to get into The Culture series but where do I start? Should I just start at Consider Phlebas?