>Want to be a writer >Everything you write is shit

>don't want to be a writer
>everything you write is good

But it's like a community college "good", which translates into a real world bad.

>Want to be a writer
>Can't stop writing long enough to edit.

It's a special kind of Hell.

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>never wanted to be a writer
>everything you write is solid gold

>Actually not bad at writing, have had your work read or listened to literally more than half a million times but mostly through unpaid channels.
>This paralyses you from working on longer projects cause you're now more afraid of failure because it would mean you fucked up something you had the means to get right the first time.

12,000 words in.

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>Want to be a writer
>Everything you write is shit

>Decide to cover up your bad storytelling with pretty drawings
>Your drawings are shit

>>9508224

>>>/co/

>Want to write
>Other obligations keep me from pursuing it as a hobby

>>9508411

You only need four hours of sleep for every 20 hours up.

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>want to be a writer
>what you write is solid gold
>such a low work ethic that you may as well be gold panning

It sucks not being able to work hard.

>>9508645
read meditations

>want to be a writer
>not awful
>Have crippling anxiety
>want to write science fantasy
>Become embarrassed as fuck when I even try to tell randoms on the Internet my synopsis.

How do professional writers do it? I watched a BBC interview with a crime writer explain his story as "a former nfl quarterback gets concussion during a match, and wakes up with autism and picture perfect memory. So becomes an amazing detective." How can you not only be not embarrassed to say that, but actually proud and manage to sell the concept to readers?

>>9508208
That's tough because writing's the clay editing shapes. Breathe, senpai..

Keep on writing, then. Keep it up and see your works as the result of pure and good efforts

>>9508476
That sounds about like my life right now.

>>9509576
Ideas don't matter and are super cheap, that's how. That guy understands that it doesn't matter how retarded the initial idea is because he has the developed skill to flesh it out into an interesting novel.

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>Want to be a shit writer
>Everything you write is shit

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>don't want to be a writer
>want to write a short story
>don't feel like writing down notes outlining the story and the details

>>9508183
It takes time and hard work. No author breezes through it.
>>9508211
>Calling your own work solid gold.
Yes dear mommy is proof of you.
>>9508222
What kind of writing?
>>9508645
>Doesn't work hard but thinks he writes gold.
In what other profession is this possible.

>>9510552

Talent is a prerequisite for all Art, Mr. "MUH 10,000 HOURS"

>>9509833
>wants to own a pool
seems so far out of my reach

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>want to be a fantasy writer
>everything I write is better than most fantasy I've read

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>>9508183

i dont want to be a writer anymore, i want to play accordion or have a happy life

i never wanted this

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>tfw you will never wake up in your apartment on the outskirts of Ho Chi Minh that's above a neighborhood coffee shop. Your window fan slowly spinning only managing to move the humid summer air around the room, never cooling it. The sweat of last nights sleep rolls from your brow down your cheek. Rising and lumbering to your antiquated typewriter that you bought to feel like 'one of the real old-school guys.' Then after leaving your hands resting over the keys for what feels like several minutes looking up and out of your desk window onto the streets below you, seeing the people move about, the ants, the cogs, each playing the role they were given in order to make this moment all the more blissful. Then, you begin.
Why live?

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>>9511871

You thought this was good enough to force other people to see?

Please think before posting next time.

>>9512007
>he takes greentexting seriously

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>>9510552
>in what profession is it possible to create gold without working hard

Anything where the work doesn't have to be completed to be consumed.
If you had a talent then you might understand.
Alas, I bet you were one of those kids who actually had to study to get good grades.

>>9512007
To be fair to the lad, greentext is meant to be shit.
He did fuck up by including punctuation though.

>>9512566
What self righteousness. Where's your mastetpeice then? Us plebs are waiting for you. Please show your talents to the world, please Mr solid gold, show me how much of a stupid pleb I am when you can so easily craft genius.

>>9508183
Nobody is born a good writer

You get better with time and effort, mainly through just reading a lot. Spend a lot of time reading a lot of quality works

If you're looking for books with practical advice, I suggest John Gardner's The Art of Fiction

>>9512955
Something helpful! Thanks anon. I legitimately appreciate this.

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>want to be a writer
>don't write
>everything you write is shit

wow it's almost like you have to practice or something

>want to be a writer
>if I could force myself to sit down and write, the words would flow and my book would be written easily
>instead of writing, I waste away watching junkfood media, masturbating to porn, doing other stupid shit on the internet
>barely even read books anymore

I'd be a famous writer, but I'm drowning in my addictions. Anyone else know this feel? Plus I work a full time job that drains a good amount of my energy already...

>>9512968
No you dont. This guy >>9512566
Has talent out the ass. He's gonna show us you just put whatever you want on the page unless you are a no talent pleb

>>9508183
All you need is a group of friends who also lack talent.

You and your friends can all agree to promote each other's work while writing about similar themes with similar style. Maybe some of you can write reviews in magazines, others can teach English classes where you introduce people to writers in your group. Boom, now you're talented.

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>>9512977

Yeah, exactly...

I hate how I know what I'm doing to myself, but I refuse to change.

>>9512977
What are you, 18, 19.

You don't read, you don't practice, you aren't good. You don't start, you'll never be good. Great writers don't think they are great. Even the most narrcistic ones have a respect for the craft. Even they know that they can't understand all of it.

>>9513002
> Great writers don't think they are great.

Lots do. I don't just think I'm great----I come up with stuff in the plot of my book that blows myself away. I go "How the fuck did I come up with that? Holy shit that's cool" as if it was some other person who gave me the idea.

I'm not so conceited that I think everything I write is good, I know some my chapters are pretty weak, but others are very strong and phenomenal.

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>want to write
>don't
>do something actually useful instead

best decision ever tbqh
highly recommended

>>9513016
Name the worst writer you can think of. He does that. He think that his idea is so fucking grand and amazing that he's not sure how he got to it. Then he writes it and you call it shit. I do that. Everyone does that. Actually TRY, and you'll find out you have a lot of work to do. I don't think you suck though.

>>9513019
>useful
>shitposting here

Truly.

>>9513036
>Name the worst writer you can think of. He does that. He think that his idea is so fucking grand and amazing that he's not sure how he got to it.

They get an idea----and think "My FANS will love this" or "This is a great idea that will SELL books!" etc.

What I said was, I surprised myself, myself only, without thinking in a framework of other readers, but it's also as if they idea did not come from myself (but something else). It was given to me, by another part of myself that is hidden within myself.

There's a difference between this feeling I am describing, and the feeling J.K. Rowling felt when she was in a coffee shop and thought "I've got this great idea that about a magical school that a lot of people are going to like!"

What I feel, is like me looking in the mirror, and the other self in the mirror leans forward to whisper a secret in my ear. Not some schlock that a committee for a ghost writer pass around and talk about the "selling points" and "how good this will be".

I may not be famous, but I will at least have a cult following. This is a fact.

>>9513117
You have Delusions of grandeur. Please allow me to see some of your masterwork.

It's very common for a writer to do this. It's even a television trope. Just because you think you are masterful doesn't mean that you are.

>>9508183
Keep at it. I'm always very critical of what I write as well, but I know it's light years better than what I wrote a few years ago. I think it's a lot more encouraging to see that there are problems even if your ability has yet to improve enough to resolve them. than to be whatever is the equivalent of tone-deaf or color-blind when it comes to writing. So keep at it, improve, find other problems, etc. There will always be things that you will find wrong or be critical of, but hopefully at some point it will be things that most people are simply unable to see.

>>9513016
What is that like? I can't even imagine not despising my own creations.

Like, you can look at something you did and think, 'yes, I am proud of this,' instead of cringing and wanting to destroy all evidence that you ever tried anything?

How do I stop hating myself?

>>9513206
Do you read and write often? Or do you spend more time online?

>>9512566
>If you had a talent then you might understand.
You're cute if you think finding writing easy means being a good writer.

>>9513212
I read often. I find writing more difficult. I'm able to limit my shitposting time to one or two hours a day.

But I don't just hate my garbage efforts at creative writing. I hate how shitty I am at everything I do.

>>9513243
Thats called low self esteem. Not being an asshole, have you left high school yet?

>>9508183
>Want to write my story
>Don't know how to write in third person limited

>>9513250
I'm 31 years old.

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>want to be a writer
>can't read

>>9513261
Why are you down on yourself then? What's your situation?

>>9513256
Good thing there's plenty of good fiction written in third person limited for you to learn from

>Have everything down for your story.
>Your prose is awful
fucking hell just kill me.

>>9513268
care to give a few

>>9513267
I devoted years of my life to a field of study, and have little to show for it beyond a piece of paper. Now I work a boring job I don't care about as I look for some other skill I can learn or way I can do something worthwhile with my skills and education. But I don't see anything. I'm unable to do anything of value.

>>9513297
Is your job in your field of study? Are you married? Is there any passion in your life?

>>9513302
No. Engaged. I don't know.

>>9513289
Portrait of the artist as a young man is a good one.

>>9513304
I'm trying to write a novel about uncertainty. I'll be entering college late sometime this year or next and it saves me, and that's what I want to write about.

The emotion can sometimes bring you along

>>9513319
I don't have any projects or goals to work toward. Partly because I don't believe I can be successful, and partly because I have no clue what I should even be doing with myself.

>>9513329
What does your fiance want?

>want to be a filmmaker
>dream of doing a revolution in the poor film aesthetics of my country
>need to have a good script in hand before getting to real work
>written scripts are either shit or too expensive to start working on
I just wish I was rich or had a genius storyteller working in a team with me as Buñuel did.

>>9513339
She has career goals she is working towards. We both want a comfy life together.

>>9513357
You should tell her about this problem.

Otherwise you should try something new.

>>9513384
She knows how I feel, and is supportive and encouraging.

I'm just useless.

>>9513182
I don't think I'm masterful. I think that things have been revealed to me. Everything in life that happens is a revelation.

>>9508183
Do not become a creative if your soul motivation comes from simply liking the idea of being one, bloody Wikipedia/celebrity generation.

>>9513400
Look you concitied fucker, if you were truly a writer or artistic individual at heart, then that need to express would be so necessary to your being, you couldn't help but not create; to not write would be out of the question, since it is essential, it would be greater then your life itself, and you wouldn't be sitting there jerking your precious time away.

>>9513389
Only if you stop trying

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>want to be a write a fantasy novel with Introspective thought, etc

>Read a lot of medieval literature. Also, read how life was for the peasant and nobles.

>Read on how the economies worked back then. ( How money moves, different nation's currency, where money is centered around, banks, institutions, and more.)

>Read up on different types of armor and weapons( and how much they cost.)

>read up on how actual guilds worked back then.

>Also magic.(Not really an important to the characters, but important to the story and lore.)

>Have everything outline for my first novel and what's going to be.

>I wrote my Prologue as a dream with the main character

>The First Chapter is just the Main character waking up, and starting the day, and doing what he/she is obliged to do much to his/her sad and or depression, and yearns to be something more than a filthy peasant.

>Realize this are a big no-no, so I had to restart anew.

>Months have passed since I had to start anew. No matter what I write it just comes out a gibberish when compared to the first.

Every time I reflect on this something dies inside. My heart just sinks, and I get really depressed. All I want is the feeling to end

>>9513443
Whenever I get stuck in a project I set it aside and start writing bat shit crazy stuff that I wouldn't show anyone. Just to get moving again.

I suggest starting your fantasy book off with the same medieval setting, but the prologue is a description of an ongoing ancient alien invasion that has lasted three generations. Chapter one, your hero's leaves his family and small plot if worthless earth to crusade against the demon horde.

It will still be shit but maybe going in a crazy direction will remind you of what you really want to write.

>>9513443
I say this neither out of Malice or sociopathic joy. But you should kill yourself. The feelings you are feeling will never stop. And surely deep know you know you will never write the novel the way you want to.

>>9508183
>want to write a story/book
>came up with great characters
>can't come up with a plot

>>9513443
Starting off with a dream may be an overused trope BUT if the dream is actually effectual within the story and does more than just trick the reader into a plot without consequences then it can be interesting. At least that is what I think.

>>9513545
Don't give him false hope anon. The publisher will ever accept a story with a cliche opening like that. They even have a rule for that

>>9513570
Why are you so negative on an anonymous board? Writing is hard and tiring enough even without the crabs in this bucket grabbing on to ones developing legs.

>>9513594
If you can't take stern criticism then perhaps you should discuss your piss-poor derivative tripe someplace else where the content is comparatively asinine.

>>9513594
>WAHH EVERYONE DESERVES BLIND PRAISE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT FORMS GREAT WRITERS
You aren't going to make it anon.

>>9513611
Your "criticism" is asinine in and of itself. In fact your post that I responded to really can't be classified as criticism. You are obviously angry for some reason. Please try directing that anger at yourself rather than others that might still make something of themselves that goes beyond internet bullying.

>>9513617
Learn to read. I never spoke out against criticism. The post I responded to has no constructive content and is even factually wrong. It is negative for negativities sake.

>>9513628
>>9513626
stop being so sensitive.
and dont start stories with dreams.
this isn't 100 years ago.

>>9513632
How about you start being more sensitive? It might even help you write something of value.>>9513628

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>want to be a writer
>know I will probably never be successful
>still, I write the things I want to write and work toward the goal of finishing something and getting it self-published
>It probably won't make any money, but I'll be happy I did it at least

>>9513626
I was simply criticising your criticism of the critique of the poor criticism of a derivative opening. And am now criticising your criticism of said instance of criticising your criticism of the critique of the poor criticism of a derivative opening.

>>9513656
You haven't even read the opening. You just swallowed the preconceived idea that there are certain "no-goes" when writing that are not to be used under any circumstances. This is wrong and it is people like you that stifle the art-form.

>>9513594
Anon needs to come in terms of what is happening.
Readers don't give a shit about how the economy works, or a tax policy. They don't care if the value of coin dropped or raised. Neither will they care if its gold, silver, or bronze.

They don't care if a peasant is wearing wool tunics or if a noble has his family coat of arms. They don't care what weapons the character has nor will they care if they are wearing any armor at all.

Do you really think they will give a shit how guilds actually worked back in the day?

No what readers what is something like twilight or hunger games, Eragon, red rising and many more.

He's wasting his time. Introspective fantasy novel? Nobody going to read that.

>want to be a writer
>actually quite talented
>doesn't matter because nobody cares about books anymore

>>9513645
>>9513542
>>9513443
>>9513345
>>9513264
>>9513256
>>9512977
>>9512968
>>9511445
>>9509576
>>9508645
>>9508224
>>9508208
Hold christ underground, you people need to stop fantasising over the 'idea' of being a 'writer'. How about this - just write? I met so many hopeless and talentless hacks at art school who were only there because being like kandinsky or Bacon seemed like an attractive lifestyle to them. You either make art, or you don't - it's that simple.
Now, wether it's good art or wether someone will pay you for it is something else entierly...

>want to be a writer
>write hundreds of pages
>go back and read what I wrote to edit things a bit, fix errors, etc.
>its trash
>delete it all
I lost count of how many times I've done it so far.

>>9513675
I do write, you nerd. I'm working on the third revision of my first novel right now.

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Is it even possible to enjoy your own writing? You will never see it as others will. You will never be able to bring your experience to it -- because that's all it is.

>>9513675
>ou either make art, or you don't
Or, you know, you could be both ways. Christ. I know this is an innocent enough post and there's some truth to it but /lit/ can be such a pain in the fucking ass with its arbitrary fucking ideologies.

>>9513693
Well I mean enjoying your own writing seems kind of masturbatory. I imagine musicians don't listen to their own music for enjoyment on their spare time.

>>9513711
I don't know about you but my writing is masturbation. I'm sure not writing for some grand message for the masses.

>>9513700
Yeah okay sure, fair enough. I suppose it's a bitterness I've developed over the years having been around many conceited and disingenuous artists. Still, I believe very strongly that true brilliance and genius only arises from complete emotional immersion and obsession.

>>9513730
To add, this whole 'i want to be a writer/artist' thing is totally absurd to me. It's the result of a generation of kids being told "you can be anything you want when you grow up". Now, there's nothing at all wrong with that in essence, but this attitude produces individuals who are more concerned with the concept and the personality of the 'be' rather than the straight up 'being'.

>>9513762
What is the "straight up being"? How, if I, for whatever reason, feel an immense desire to express myself and fail in doing so again and again, do I "straight up be" an artist?

>>9513772
In regards to the motivation for creating the art. I'm not claiming to be an authority on *who is or who isn't* an artist, that's just absurd as well, no one has such a claim.
There's just a staggering volume of students (and even many successful professionals) of the creative disciplines who have little to no passion or true sincerity, and ultimately produce work of low worth. The art market (for example) is saturated with garish derivative trash produced by glorified craftsmen who don't even know why they do what they do.
Art made in the absence of passion and that deep, existential yearning is cold and almost inhuman.

As for your example, if the desire to express is coming from a place of sincerity then you're good, just loose the idea of needing to 'be' anything and just be.

>writing scenes set in 1700
>know near fuck all about the time period beyond cliches.

>>9513719
Well I write stuff with the same themes that I'd like to read myself. But I wouldn't actually sit down and read my own work for any other purpose than looking it over and editing.

>>9512566
>Alas

lmao

get out

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>>9512946
>wheres your masterpice
The same place as my work ethic.

>>9512984
I'm glad that somebody understands.

>>9513229
You're cute if you think talent just means "finding writing easy".

>9513762
I feel like the word 'alas' has been unfairly panned just because JK Rowling used it.

>>9513675
>no great artist has ever struggled to make art at some point

Wew lad.

>don't want to be a writer
>don't write
>everything i don't write is shit

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>>9513443
I knew sometime once who felt the same way as you about anon. She killed herself due to the crippling depression. Sooner or later you to shall share that same fate. Knowing you are just lying to yourself about finishing that novel mostly so you have some sort of motivation to get out of bed. But as days turn to weeks and weeks to months and months turn to years. You will soon realize it was all for naught.

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>>9508183
>want to be a writer
>all of your unique and notable life experiences involve immense suffering
>too painful to write about

>>9514125

Double-shot of Bell's, then start banging on a keyboard

Painful memories make the best writing material.

>>9508183 many are called, but only few are chosen

>>9513675
>You either make art, or you don't - it's that simple.

When van Gogh was having his attacks and stopped painting for long periods of time, did he stop being an artist?

Are you only an artist while engaged in the act? Do you stop being an artist when the work is complete and until you start another?

>>9514134

>tfw Stephenie Meyer was chosen, but not you

How sad, anon

>>9513980
Your handwriting?

>>9514156
https://youtu.be/G43O8csxuAo

>>9513016
>blows myself away. I go "How the fuck did I come up with that? Holy shit that's cool
Yeah, definitely a teenager.

>>9514156
Didn't she berate her own novel

>>9513594
Fuck off back to /r/writing. We're not here to hold you hand and tell you you can do anything and that everything you write is good.

>>9513667
>preconceived idea that there are certain "no-goes
There are.

>>9513819
Neither will 99% of readers

>>9514380

And all it takes is one bad review by someone in that one percent to push the others away from every touching your book.

Just one.

>>9514153
>>9513959
You're both missing my point, or I'm probably not communicating myself clearly enough. Refer to ~
>>9513762
>>9513811

>>9514386
That one guy will already expect it and sigh when his expectations turn out true.

>>9514399

There's nothing wrong with the desire to be something.

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>>9514399
You made a point.
I disagreed.
That doesn't mean that i'm missing it.

>>9514374
Explain

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>>9512977

You're procrastinating because you're afraid of failure. Stop aiming to create some magical success; instead aim to fail as much as possible, and then succeed by accident.

Write the same scene and make shitty writing 30 times, then cherry pick the best one. Adopt that mentality and you'll be able to start.

>>9514415
Not when it comes to art. You won't make anything of any worth of your only motivation to write comes from simply wanting to 'be a writer' as in the profession of a novelist, ect. Within the arts the desire to create should come first and foremost.
>>9514501
Are you Van or struggle? I'd like to explain my thinking here because both replaces have indicated to me a misunderstanding of my view here.

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>>9514589
I desire to create my writing career

>>9514589
Explain your view as succinctly as you can.

>>9514614
Made me chuckle, but in all seriousness we're a society obsessed with identity; who value the character of artists over the quality of their work, and it's causing contemporary western culture to crumble apart into some foul smelling dust.

>>9514640
The artist would say:
~ I have a burning desire to create, to communicate my ideas and to express the deepest notions of my soul through the medium of _____ ~

The conceited and pretentious charlatan would say:
~ I wanna be a writer; the idea of such a career is attractive to me ~

>>9514678

And you believe these two to be incompatible in the same person?

You believe true art is only possible in one or the other?

You think it impossible for someone who possesses one to lie and state they possess the other?

>>9514678
Right, so how is that disagreeing with the people you've been replying to?

>>9514653
I feel you anon.

But lets be honest, publishers and readers just don't give a shit anymore.
Take >>9513443 for example, you think the reader will care for what he writes? All they want a rehash of the same YA shit or other genre fic.

And the publisher? He or she is not going to accept his submissions simply because he started with a cliche. They would rather accept twilight-esque or hunger games-esque novels that has been done to death.

>>9514640
Basically it is not good enough to simply 'want to be a writer'.
The mechanisms involved in artistic creation come from a far deeper and meaningful place within one's soul, than the simplistic choice of a profession.

(obviously we're discussing under the pretence that when we say 'be a writer' we mean a creative novelist, poet ect. and not professional journalist, pulp writer ect.)

>>9514684
Of course the two are compatible, but the desire to create should be far far greater than the desire to 'be' something. I've met far too many people who fall only within the latter motivation.

>>9514694
You're making some unfair assumptions about the people in this thread.
Wanting to be a published author does not preclude you from being artistic.
Nobody has said that they desire the profession more than the act of creating the art, just that they'd like to be a writer.

>>9514688
It seems as though what most people are struggling with here is the pursuit of becoming this preconceived idea of the 'writer' rather than the struggle to express oneself.

If you need to really think about what to write in the first instance, and pluck some derivative plot out of nothing because you 'wanna write a book' then you probably don't have what it takes to create true art and should either give up or write YA or something.

>>9514689
:'(

>>9514705
True, but It's simply what I've gauged from some of the posts here and my experiences with fellow students at art school.

Has any legitimate master of their craft ever "wanted to be a writer"? I thought you wrote because you liked it or because you had something that had to be communicated, but all you people seem to want to do is achieve the status of writer.

>>9514839
>Has any legitimate master of their craft ever "wanted to be a writer"?

Probably all of them.

Has any writer ever said "I never cared if I was a writer or not"

>>9514847
>Has any writer ever said "I never cared if I was a writer or not"
Being a writer is part of writing something. If they stopped being a writer they would stop writing. If shakespeare stopped writing he couldn't make his plays, but I don't think he wanted to be a playwright because he had some romantic idea of "being a writer".

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Why is opening with a cliche bad?

>>9514868
>but I don't think he wanted to be a playwright because he had some romantic idea of "being a writer".

>I don't think

Key word

>>9514868

You can be a writer and want to be a writer at the same time, you fucking unimaginative cuck

Maybe you're just stuck on the writing part? Let's take painting instead, maybe you can understand that?

Watch10 seconds of this, specifically the part at 14:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgrO5za0lSY

Because Bacon wanted to be an artist, that makes him less of an artist?

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>>9515164
i was wrong but I'm going to not reply so I won't have to face the humiliation

wait oops

>>9513669
That is valid criticism that might help the OP with his novel. What the other person was offering however was empty negativity. Some of you seem to have misunderstood my sentiment.

>>9513811
>Art made in the absence of passion and that deep, existential yearning is cold and almost inhuman.
why won't romanticism die already

>rarely write
>when i do people tell me my writing is amazing and that i should totally write a novel
>lack motivation and i don't believe them

>>9515284
fuck you it's the only thing that keeps art alive and vibrant and with a sense of humanity, you end up with deprived and soulless Jeff Koons without it.

>>9515430

Fuck you and the sugarplum fairy you fuck at night to make you think your delusions about art hold any truth to them.

>>9515430
>all art prior to romanticism was like Jeff Koons

>>9515479

basically, yeah

>>9508224
this but reverse the order
maybe art just isnt my thing

>>9515479
precisely
>>9515447
screw you theres nothing remotely sugarplum fairy about it, are you an artist bitch? it's not truth it's dogma, dogma that i stand by as an artist, i'm sick of conceited wanna be hacks who lack the slightest element emotional connection to their work. fuck postmodernism jesus shit

>>9509576
Readers are dumb. Most stories can be bullet pointed out onto half an A4. The rest of a book is kneading the grey matter to accept your story points and hammer into the skull some philosophical paradox's you may be tearing yourself apart in angst over.

It's why there is a special beauty to well written short stories. They hammer the story through the grey matter in less words. I think some of the true artists out there are better at using fewer words to convey some need a chapter to do.

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>>9515948
gtfo /lit/ is a classicist board

>>9514550
Publishers see certain things in books and go, "man, this is a retarded cliche," then reject you with a form letter.

>>9514555
Whoever made that image is a retard that has no idea what MBS are or what tranching them does for an economy.

>>9515961
i'll stick to my modernist manifestos, bloated god-fearing corpse

>>9516025
the only good modernist is a classicist modernist

>>9513454
Isn't that what he was implying though?

Why is stating with a cliche bad?

>>9517943
because it doesn't hook the reader in at all. if you do want to use a cliche, at least put some kind of twist on it so then the reader is like "oh it's this stupid cliche again," but then they're like "oh shit i'm a fucking idiot i didnt see that coming they really got me i wonder what else this wacky writer has in store for me"

>>9517127

It's called mansplaing

Just say what the person said, but longer and with a self righteous tone

>>9514958

Because it's so cliche

>>9513443
Introspective? What a fucking pretentious faggot you are.

Thinking people will read the conscious thoughts and feelings of a character. We want something like Eragon, twilight, hunger games, Red Rising, Red Queen, game of thrones, etc.

What's your novel going to be? About a character current predicament in his life and how they yearn to be something else? How he want to be something more but can't because he doubts himself? Your novel probably doesn't any action scenes. Does your novel even have a bad guy.
Just stop writing and kill yourself you massive faggot.

trying to become an author is probably a huge waste of your time

the propability of your shit being even remotely good is extremely slim and even if it was of any value there's no guarantee that it would succeed

>>9518602

>probably

That's the most important word in your entire shit stain of a post

>>9508183
to be a good writer you have to know what the people want to read

Why is everyone so mean to that other anon?

>>9518648
What do they want to read?

>>9518602
Nothing in life is possible when you approach it with this attitude anon.

>>9518602
>he propability of your shit being even remotely good is extremely slim
And get they are worst novel that got published.

>>9517995
But its a means to an end.

>>9519100

Sure, if that end is to push away any possible reader you might have had

>>9519271
What if they serve a purpose in the overall plot and character's story

>>9519365

Then you don't just have a cliche beginning, you have an entire plot that is cliche

How awful

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>>9519372
>Cliche is only in the first two chapters which have their purpose.
>the rest of the novel is not cliche-ridden
>Story is somehow heavily clich.

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>>9519411

>I only put shit in the first step of baking this cake, why does the whole cake taste like shit!?

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>>9519416
>No we are not going to accept your story because of its cliche beginnings

>Yes we are going to publish story about cliche dystopian future YA that is nothing more than rehashing others YA novels

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>>9519443

When the fuck did I say that absolute shit doesn't get published?

You'll find people to eat your shit cake, doesn't mean it ain't shit, fucko.

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>>9519449
>I've been found out.
>Better backtrack and type swear words

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>>9519455

>I can't give a reply that continues my position
>better turn 13 and forget how to debate

The starting point was "Cliches make books shit" not "Cliche books won't get published", ding dong

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>>9519462
>Cliche makes books shit
>Lets forget some classical books started with what we now call cliche
>Lets forget that just like the book it ultimately decides in how the author intends to use it to convey the story
Alas I truly see.

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>>9519510
>>Cliche makes books shit
yup
>>Lets forget some classical books started with what we now call cliche
Name some and their cliches, please, try
>>Lets forget that just like the book it ultimately decides in how the author intends to use it to convey the story
Not really

>Want to write a book
>But im autistic and have trouble getting invested

kill me desu

>>9519525
The Metamorphosis starts with the protagonist waking up.

>>9519615
>Metamorphosis
It's a classic and gets a free pass.

>want to be a writer
>only ever feel like writing fanfiction
developed a small following though, feelsgud

>>9519615

The cliche isn't "Protagonist wakes up" it's "Protagonist wakes up and goes through the normal routine of his day"

"Waking up as an insect" is not a cliche

>>9519615
And Gravity's Rainbow starts with a dream sequence

>>9519773
Gravity's Rainbow is hardly a classic

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>>9519771
>>9519779
>moving the GoalPost

>>9519782

>Miss the shot completely

"M-MUH GOALPOST"

>>9508183

Being a writer is not about being a good writer. A writer writes. The action defines the person.

You can still be tremendously successful as a professional writer without being good, just by tapping into what people want to read. No one of merit is going to say that Stephanie Meyer is actually a good writer. She's tremendously successful because she is writing what people want to read in a way that is easy for them to read and relate to-- and that's fine.

Write shit that people want to read and you will still be a writer and successful. Maybe you will become good along the way, but it's by no means a requirement to be a writer.

>>9512566
>to get good grades.
>>>/out/

winner winner you're a ______

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>>9520929

>>9519788
>Being a writer is not about being a good writer

Then there's no fucking point

>>9519766
That's what we were talking about.

>>9519771
Wrong! The cliché is a book beginning with the protagonist waking up.
>>9519784
>Denial

>>9521674
>The cliché is a book beginning with the protagonist waking up.

Not really, it's the whole "delaying action to describe a character's routine" that's cliche

You wouldn't say the Metamorphosis is cliche because it starts with the character waking up, would you? It get's right into the action, which means it doesn't check all the boxes for the cliche

>>9521688
You wouldn't say the [Instert Title name] is cliche because it starts with the character waking up, would you? It get's right into the action, which means it doesn't check all the boxes for the cliche

>>9508183
did you tihnk you would be born with infused talent? Everything good takes effort

>>9521691

I've never read [Instert Title name] so I couldn't tell you.

Does it delay the action in order to describe the character's morning as if it's a normal day?

Then its cliche

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>>9521694
>t. guy with no talent

Hard works beats talent 6 times out of 10.
But hard work & talent is unbeatable.
The sooner you learn & accept that the better.

Using words is cliché

Complaining about clichés has become pretty cliché.

>>9513959
>The same place as my work ethic.
ew. are you one of those "smart but lazy" types?

>>9522036
Yeah we exist.
Only triggered sub 100 IQs think otherwise.

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>>9522036
He's baitposting or an idiot, my dude. I'm inclined to the former. I wouldn't worry too much about him.

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>Want to be a writer
>Everything you write is great
>But you're too lazy to actually write

>>9508183
thats why you keep writing, dipshit.

you get better.

>Want to be a writer
>Everything you write includes shit

Gravity's Rainbow gave me hope that I too could someday be published.

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>>9519615
>The Metamorphosis starts with the protagonist waking up.

>MFW Metamorphosis would never be published today simply because it starts with the protagonist waking up.

>MFW any classical Literature would never be published today due to Agents have the combined literary knowledge of a slightly above average high school student.

>These are the people who judge what is good and what is not.

>>9522459
>Agents
It's 2017, why are you still a slave to a publisher?

>>9522459

It wouldn't be published today because the Metamorphosis already exists today.

Are you fucking retarded? What Agent would literally allow plagiarism?

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>>9522488

>>9522499

>Mr. Agent, sir, what do you think of my new play, Romeo and Juliet!
>This is an exact copy of Shakespeare's play, we can't publish this
>NO, YOU WON'T PUBLISH ME BECAUSE YOU THINK STAR-CROSSED LOVERS ARE CLICHE

This is you right now

The adjectival form of cliché is clichéd.

>>9522556

How cliche

>>9522522
You're being deliberately obtuse. Here's your (you)

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>>9522488
That's not the point he made

Say the Metamorphosis (assuming you agree that it's a great piece of literature) were totally obscure or at least unknown to a particular agent/publisher. If you went there now with the story or very similar one and tried to publish it, you would be rejected (this actually happened to Kafka too, he was asked to shorten it but refused)

It's a balancing act.
The ability to get over criticism is paramount. There are very few things everyone likes. The key is writing stuff you like and finding an audience for that voice.
The next step is learning that your work should stand on its own. If you feel the need to explain to someone you meant this or they misunderstood, you did something wrong. Dont spend your time defending yourselves, take the criticism and improve. Or ignore it.
Finally, two modes of writing to get over the anxiety.
Phase 1 - write. Dont even backspace if you can. Word vomit, let that story out.
Phase 2 - now go over it and edit like crazy.

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>Write
>Genuinely proud and love my work.
>Show it to someone.
>Eyes pass over it without reading it.
>0 reaction,

>only write low-effort fanfiction
>everything gets written all at once in one sitting
>never edit or revise, once something's been typed it's set in stone
>people eat it up
Feels pretty good

>>9522459

have you tried a metamorphosis where he is being defibrilated instead of being woken up

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>>9522522
So are you pretending to be retarded?

>Have tons of good ideas for stories
>Get stuck world building forever because I can never write a proper beginning to the story to lead into the meat and potatoes of the story

I have like an entire fantasy saga in my head but it will never see paper because I cannot get that fucking protagonist out of his village.

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>Want to be a reader
>Everything you read is shit

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>>9525445
I had the same problem of not being able to start my story.
The trick is to just forget about the beginning and write the rest.
Then you can go back and write the first few chapters with all the necessary foreshadowing and characterisation that you realised that you needed by writing the rest of the book.

>>9525495
You do need to give special attention to the beginning though, it's what grabs people. The fate of your work is usually sealed by the first page in the eyes of the editor so it needs to be as captivating as possible.
You not only need to set up bit also sell your story with your beginning.

Here to gloat because I've actually published something. I suck more than all of you but I don't hold myself back by letting lack of confidence be an excuse. Just write as if you will be shot in the back of the head if you dare say you're not good enough because you are and you will be and you will never be good if you give up.

>>9525519
>My novel is introspective
Teach me

>>9522459
I think cliches are okay. If you keep binding yourself with rules and avoiding things you'll never do anything. Plenty of good stuff I've read had cliches in them, but each writer treats them different and in the end it's amazing in combination.

>>9525519
I'm not disagreeing with you about the importance of a beginning.
I'm just saying that it's easier to do the beginning when you know for certain what's going to be coming.
There's a stark difference between knowing what you've written and just having an idea of what's coming in your head.

>>9514958
Because reading fiction is about escapism first and foremost. Reading a known cliche takes you out of the fictional world and brings you back to reality.

>>9525529
You can always have an eyecatcher as first line like"It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen." or "Call me Ishmael" or "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
>>9525534
You can know what's coming in many ways though, like with notes, outlines etc. First drafts. the first thing written down isn't going to be the final version so don't bother to delve into writing already before having an overview, regardless of where you start.

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>want to be a writer
>realize it's not just putting pen to paper but lots of planning and learning a wide range of subjects to make it feel authentic
>you are literally playing God on a smaller scale
>have a nervous breakdown

>>9525567
Yeah I don't necessarily disagree.
The post I was replying to seemed to say that he was getting stuck writing the first chapter and not even trying to go beyond that.

>>9525568
Research is nice and adds a lot to a book, but it's not the most important thing.
I bet you could name any book and someone here could list major inaccuracies when it comes to science, history, geography etc.
Don't fret about it so much.

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>>9508183
>want to write professionally since a teenager
>only finish stories if they're an assignment for creative writing
>graduate, stop writing all together
>start browsing /d/, /co/ and /aco/
>now only write Disney and vidya fapfic

>>9525567
Damn those are good opening lines. Even though I know nothing else now I am thinking about why the clock struck thirteen or what's up with the unhappy family?

Wish I could come up with a good one liner like that.

>>9525867
Yeah, I think the goal is to get your reader to pause for a second and get that sentence become their dominating thought replacing whatever else they were thinking about at the time.

>Want to be a writer.
>Rememeber I don't like people very much and don't seek their approval.
>Slip into inactivity
>Any attempts to motivate myself revert back to the second point

Don't become a jaded asshole

where can you go to post short stories and receive critiques of it?

>>9526012
I write for myself first, it's why my first novel is going to star my fursona. You need some ego friend.

i wish i could say something clever itt

>>9526190
fragments here >>9524293

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>>9526224
Forgot pic

>>9526224

>You need some ego friend.

Did too much acid for that

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>want to write serious fiction
>can only write smut that caters specifically to my fetishes

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>>9526684
I know that feel, anon.
>sit down to write serious fiction
>maybe 200 or 300 words before I stall out
>get horny and write out sexual fantasies
>4000 words before I stop for a break
Why are my passions so worthless?

>>9509576

Follow up:
>Actually started writing again, partially thanks to this thread.
Everyone hating their first drafts was more of a motivation then I thought it would be. Thanks anons

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>>9527334
Good for you my friend.

>>9526778

Worthless? You're sitting on a gold mine, anon. Time to start cranking out those Harlequin novels!

Not even kidding. Those books sell well.

>>9511445
Witty fucker, I had a good chuckle

>>9513002
But Borges is GOAT although he was butthurt about muh nobel prize

>>9527347
No, I'm exactly like that guy. I only write super niche fetish fantasies that I could not post anywhere even if I wanted to because A) they wouldn't be allowed on 99% of erotica sites and B) I'd get flamed just for the content and I don't feel like dealing with that

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Ok lit/
Another stupid question in this thread.
To write enough to sell a book you have to write ten books and cut the dead wood from the dead corpses. It's like making a perfect table out of a bushel of thorn bushes.

So, what do you envision while you are carving that wood? What is the rode that gets you to that finish line?

Should you seek a river or a staircase? Do you flow from page to page steering or is it a climb to the top? And how long have you been stuck on that road?

> tfw two years

>>9526778
Replace the words with other words.
Half of tom Clancy's books are just gun replacements for orgy descriptions

>>9525527
This is a fair piece of advice. I'm going to rig up a shotgun to my desk.
>>9515959
>>9514555
I'ma put all the good advice posts in one spot.
>>9519788
>>9523822

And that's surprisingly little, Most of the thread is arguing about cliche's and people calling eachother fairy's.

Writers people. Sorry if i missed you.

>>9508199
This is me. Feelsaboveaverageman.

>>9513681
>I do write, you nerd. I'm working on the third revision of my first novel right now.

Fucking kek. Just everything about that makes me laugh.

>>9513443
Just keep going. Odds are you'll rewrite the opening when you have a clearer idea of the whole book. Sounds like standard Hero's Journey fare (dream trope, farm boy dreams of adventure away from Tattooine trope) but you can either embrace them, or for now just treat them like scaffolding so you can build the rest of your house.

>>9508183
Read more or stop reading shit. Do this and you will improve. You're not trying hard enough. Don't be a bitch and whine.

>>9528193
Huh. That's an interesting idea. I'm going to try that with one of my less disgusting pieces.

>don't know if want to be a writer or not
>don't know if writing is good or not
>sometimes am so proud of it
>sometimes think it's the insecure ramblings of a pseud
>sometimes people say it's good
>sometimes people say it's bad
>feels ambiguous, man

>>9508183
yamete

>want to be a writer
>have only ever lived in Brooklyn
>too afraid to describe places I haven't been to
>Brooklyn is boring

>>9528908
It would appear that you lack imagination.

>>9519770
What do you write about?

>>9513443
Sometimes the best you can do is simply starting another project anon. Good luck, don't listen to the edgy faggots in here.

>>9513678
The point of editing is making it not trash anymore, if you just delete it all you might as well not write at all.

>>9526012
Writing isn't about seeking approval?? People write because they want to tell an interesting story. They want to entertain people or perhaps teach some kind of lesson through a narrative.

I've never heard of anyone writing to get approval. That's so odd; you sound like you have some issues you need to deal with.

>>9526224
>writing a story about yourself

It will be obvious and everyone will hate it. Self inserts are trash.

>>9528187
If you're trying to write a story so it can get published, it never will. Just write a good story and publishers will want it. Not that hard.

>>9508183
>want to be a writer
>never can get myself to write and keep telling myself I'll do it tomorrow
Fucking kill me lads

>>9530125
Disable your Internet for a week.

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>>9530181
But then how would I do my daily logins?

>>9530125
Then uhhhhh. You probably don't actually want to write. You just wanna be a writer.

>>9530492
That's a child's logic.

>>9530545
I'm just saying that if you have to force yourself to write, it's more than likely that – surprise – you don't like writing.

What else would be stopping you?

>>9530578
I have written before but after my burst of motivation I stop and enter what I call the composting mode where I'll do nothing but world build for months but never put pen to paper. I have 4 stories I want to write but always find an excuse to put it off and when I do try to write I get an urge to do literally anything else. It's really fucking bizarre.

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>>9530578
Not him, but the Internet is addictive, and as much as I love writing, it can be difficult and frustrating. Browsing 4chan is easier, so you get lazy and then spend all that time browsing by hating yourself for not writing.

>>9530644
Disconnect yourself. Go stay at a cheap hotel for a couple days. Change your environment so old habits are easier to break.

Also, what's your goal? I find a lot of young writers struggle with writing their ideas down because they never seem as good on paper. They think they need to write something brilliant or life-changing, instead of realizing that it will take work before your story even begins to resemble something like that. The goal should be to practice your craft first. Or at least, I think it helps if you want to write because you actually enjoy "writing", and not necessarily being the next best seller. Or even publishing.

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>>9530578
Like I said, childish logic.
I like writing a lot, it's just that there are other things to do which I like just as much and which require less time investment.
Things like hanging out with my friends, consuming media, hiking, gaming, shitposting, watching news etc.
It's a struggle to find the time in the day to write when all of these things want daily attention.
Had I no other hobbies or friends, like many of the autists on this board, I might find more time to write.

>want to be a writer
>have shit vocabulary
>trouble learning
>trouble concentrating

>>9530669
I just want to finish my first novel and not be utterly disappointed at the end result. I struggle with how I should do things because I don't have a process on anything so I vomit everything out and try to streamline it all. I'm the type of guy who needs to plan everything ahead of time

>>9530644
"I really wanna be a buff-ass hunk, but I just can't bring myself to work out. Weird, right?"

>after my burst of motivation I stop
>motivation
There's your problem. motivation is unreliable. Make it a habit, boi. You have to fucking do it. Statistically, you have to do it every day for 66 days. Thats for the average person. For the individual it takes anywhere between 18 days to about 8 months.

>>9530704
You're justifying this shit so fuckin hard.
>Want to be a writer
>Like hanging out with my friends, consuming media, hiking, gaming, shitposting, watching news etc. more than writing
>So I don't write
You're saying you want to be a writer, but you're putting writing in the same categories as trivial activities like playing video games and shitposting. But w/e. Have fun not writing, Mr. Writer.

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>>9530760
What exactly am I trying to justify?
When did I say that I want to be a writer?
I just said that I like writing but can't find the time.
>trivial activities
In your opinion.
I'm sorry that you can't experience the true depths of those hobbies. Tis quite sad.

>Want to write
>Terrible at describing scenes

Does anyone else feel that they need to cram as much information into a sentence as possible in order to not make obvious statements interpretable in retarded ways? I constantly find myself adding a bunch of information I feel should already be understood and thus elongating sentences beyond how long they really need to be

>>9531373
Word

>>9516006
I don't think you understand a joke.

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>Want to be a writer
>My writing is superb
>Anything I write is gold
>Get passed over for plays written about Jewish mixed religion plays

>>9528908
>>9529550
Same man, are you in the shitty southern part of brooklyn filled with chinese, russians, and jews too?

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>it's still shit but I don't projectile vomit from looking at it anymore
Feels good

>>9512955
The only redeeming post in the thread

>>9531880
Set the tone to that of a conversation instead of a essay.

You wouldn't explain a walk in the park to another park goer the same as you would a cancer kid who can't walk would you?

>>9531373
Then don't. Describe color. Shades, the things you notice in the room. Perception instead of facts.

To learn more, read lemony snicket.

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>>9532842
>tfw bad at conversation but good at essay writing

>Want to become a writer
>Have a 80.000 Words draft
>Gave it to an Editor and got some constructive and positive Feedback.
>Whenever I start further editing I just want to delete and burn it all.
Help me.

>>9532850
>To learn more, read lemony snicket.
wat?

>>9531373
poetry is your friend for exercising your imagery muscles.

>>9532399
what neighborhood are you even talking about breh? most of nyc is filled with chinese, ruskis, and jews

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>>9528809
>standard Hero's Journey fare (dream trope, farm boy dreams of adventure away from Tattooine trope)

The entire few chapters is supposed to feel like Hero's journey fare but that's mostly because the Main Character is expecting her life will turn out like that

However the rest of the novel is the Main Character trying to come to terms with her situation (I.E her expectations (She finds out she's special, Leaves her pastoral village, join some heroic group, and overthrow someone evil, and be a hero) vs reality(She's a filthy peasant, is going to marry someone she doesn't like, and going to live her life in the village.)) and how it affects her

That's why I wanted to Prologue to be her dreams (What she wants to be) and the first chapter to be her waking up (What she really is). To compare and contrast the two

>>9518625

people like you watch too much movies and think life is some fairytale when you refuse to accept that most literature is pure trash and it's very, very unlikely that you will write something of value in your lifetime. You're up against the greatest minds of all time, why should anyone waste their time reading your shit?

>want to be a writer
>have aphantasia

>Pound did it first

There goes my novel.

>>9533318
See how limony snicket does it.
Combines the essay with the perceived notes of it and keeps the narrator in the loop.

So long as the subject matter allows for for a few emotional stubbed toes you should be fine. Copy some of his conversational scenes between the count and the caregivers and you'll see where youand his trains get off.

>>9511871
The first few lines aint bad

>>9512955
>nobody is born a good writer
>t. talentless pleb

Don't measure the wheat of others by your own bushel.

>>9523926
i know that feel

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>Feel like my dialogue is so terrible that it's like it was written by someone who's never held a conversation with someone in his life
>Tfw finally write some dialogue that was semi-passible
Maybe one day I'll make it.

>>9513345

just go the godard way senpai

>>9525457
Underrated.