/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

Sanderson is GOAT

>>8349030
Are people who like Sanderson retarded?

>Ligotti will never write an epic high fantasy horror series

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I have recently found interest in reading again, and read through the entire broken empire trilogy....What does /lit/ recommend next?

>>8349036
>there will never be good high fantasy horror

>>8349043
What did you enjoy about it?

>>8349036

>protagonist kills himself and lets the dark lord win 10 pages in because life is shit anyway, why even bother, who cares, whatever, might as well

fund it

>>8349062
For the most part, the main character's personality.
I have no idea if a lot of fantasy books have protagonist like him, but tv shows definitely dont, which was the allure of the book

>>8349043

Malazan

>>8349077
Not too many quality unabashed edge lords.

You could try First Law

>>8349077

Night Angel Trilogy

>>8349043
>>8349077
So you want GRI approved books?
Warded man, Red Rising, maybe black sun rising.

>>8349100
> quality unabashed edge lords
What do you mean?

>>8349108
>GRI
have no idea what that is. I just want recommendations.... Anything is fine, since I'll research it before purchasing

>>8349110
I mean that Broken Empire mc is an insufferable edgelord

>>8349110
The call Jorge "edgy" because he is some what nihilistic. What these pseudo intellectuals don't understand, is not everyone is the same, nor do they see the world in the same light.

I'm pessimistic, I'm sure these desktop therapist will say I'm edgy because I see bad in the world.

>>8349120
Yes he is.... but it's interesting to get a refreshing perspective, after dealing with the same type of protagonist

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>>8349043
anyone knows how his next trilogy stacks up to his first?

>>8349157
>book I of III in the overwrought fantasy name cycle

>>8349034
Nope.

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>>8349115
>Anything is fine
Have a gander at my chart anon

>>8349443
I still think this one needs an urban fantasy subgroup, it would help cut down on that huge fantasy bloc.

Has everyone noticed that the fantasy fans are consistently the people that glut up these threads and drag them into the quality gutter?

>>8349596
Not really, it's just been a month or so of Great Ordeal hypesters and that one guy who goes out of his way to find Rothfuss quotes he can get angry about.

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>>8349520
Maybe when my autism is firing at max I will be able to do my subgroups. I.e: urban fantasy, military, gri, swords, grimdark, adventure, biopunk, cyberpunk, non humans, aliens, post apocalyptic, futuristic, etc etc.

But I don't see that happening anytime soon (it's what I first set out to do with pic related, but when I saw the time it took to get to where I was, I just couldn't go through.) I understand why no one really wants to make a list.

>>8349596
I read both fantasy and scifi... so no, I don't notice.

>>8349443
That Kevin Hearne series has become unreadable

>>8349831
Yep, one more failed Dresden clone.

>>8349157
It's pretty good. It parallels the events of the first trilogy following a different character's perspective. Jallan is a lot funnier than Jorg as a narrator, somewhat unreliable, but his banter with Snorri is great. It's more of a "road trip" type story than Jorg's which was about revenge and conquest. Jalan bumps into Jorg a few times in his travels and ends up exploring a lot of the mysteries of the setting, you definitely are expected to have read the Broken Empire first.

>>8349172
What's "overwrought" about Red Queen's War? Is three words arranged in a descriptive phrase too much for you?

>>8349831
Yeah, his quality dropped over the years. It was great at first.
Would still remember the first few books, I enjoyed when he binded shit together to make poison and other stuff... sad that he doesn't do those shit anymore.

>>8349085
I want to read malazan but I want a series with a consistent protagonist

The /lit cliche is to start with the Greeks. In reading and appreciating sci-fi, it looks like we should start with the fifties.

Day Of The Triffids - John Wyndham
The Body Snatchers - Jack Finney
Alfred Bester - The Stars My Destination
The City And The Stars - Arthur C Clarke
Theodor Sturgeon - More Than Human

Do preceding decades have a glut of work, of similar quality, (imaginative, literary, entertainment) which is still palatable for the modern reader?

And are there 'minor' 1950s sci fi novels which are great, but have fallen into obscurity, and now deservie wider readership?

recommend military scifi that focuses on the details of warfare and the art of annihilating your enemy through strategy and resourcefulness

>>8349960
Lost Fleet

>>8349968
non human enemies please

>>8349077
The Eyes of the Overworld

Why did you guys lie to me?
>First book of malazan is the worst
>It gets better

It's the exact opposite, it starts going downhill right after the first book, with the first one being the best

>>8350222
>not liking chain of dogs

Disgusting

>>8349969
Tail end of the first series, and most of the second series, has battles with aliens in it.

Also there's the Dread Empire's Fall series which has humans and some alien allies in a civil war vs other aliens after the founding race of a space empire dies off.

The Spiral Wars series has the crew of a human ship mutiny and go renegade after a conspiracy kills their captain, aliens and AI berserkers are some of their foes.

>>8349943
Are you trying to trigger the dino anon? You people shitposting?

>>8349943

For scifi and fantasy you should start with religion texts, The Bible, Qu'ran etc

>>8350388
*tips fedora*

>>8349943
Star Maker, Last and First Men. These two novels have enough ideas to power hundreds of lesser novels.

>>8350366

>you can't ever discuss books older than 2000 because it triggers one autist with shit taste

Have we fallen so low?

>>8349943
Don't forget about Doc EE Smith. Lensman has some amazing similarities to Star Wars for example.

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>>8350468
>>8350366
I'm not against old books for fucks sake. I'm just against people who read ONLY old books, and then turn their nose up and call us out for reading anything new.

tl;dr dinosaurs are e/lit/ist scum

>>8350524
Dino anon you are my favorite shitposter

My coworker told me to check out "the primordial blade" I believe, but didn't tell me an author
Anybody read it? Any good or does he have shit taste

>>8349443
>Brent weeks
But why?

>>8350524
Most books are old.
Not reading new fiction is incredibly easy.
You have an awful taste.

>>8350532
I've been absent from /lit/ for a good while. Does REI still post here

>>8350533
He has shit taste.

>>8350524

There are no people like that in this general, everyone is willing to give new stuff a chance and you call them dinosaurs when they don't like Rothfuss or Sanderson. You're tilting against windmills.

>>8349443
Sabriel and HDM. Oh Anon you know what the fuck is up. I will never forget being introduced to multiverse theory through strange cutlery as a wee lad.

>>8350396
I kek'd.

>>8350550
he won't get the reference-- you're in genre general. maybe make a vidya reference or something

Shallan getting darkeyed when

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>>8350550
... I don't like Rothfuss, he burnt me, I will still read book 3 if it ever comes out but I don't recommend him him.

Sanderson is hit and miss, his writing reads like ya sometimes, why would I hate on someone for that?

The real original dinosaur blatantly said and I'm paraphrasing here "new books a shit, old books for life, you have shit tastes for not reading old books".

Go to the first sffg and read forward, you will see when the dinosaur first entered in the picture, and you will see how he started shitposting.

>>8350584
Don Quixote isn't exactly a obscure reference

Jasnah getting darkeyed when

Syl getting darkeyed when

Navani getting darkeyed when

The Nightwatcher getting darkeyed when

>>8350597

He doesn't seem to be here anymore tho, which makes what you're doing useless at best and shit posting at worst.

Shalash getting darkeyed when

Khriss getting darkeyed when

Marasi getting darkeyed when

Vin getting darkeyed when

Vivienne getting darkeyed when

This is advanced autism

Siri getting darkeyed when

>>8350598
It is if you are a philistine.

Sarene getting darkeyed when

>darkeyed

what?

>>8350637
I'm guessing anon is using it like /tv/ uses "blacked". Like, when will that female character have sex with a darkeyed man.

Shai getting darkeyed when

Ranette getting darkeyed when

Toc getting wolfed when

Lessie getting darkeyed when

Paran getting hounded when

Melaan getting darkeyed when

Egwene getting spanked when

Little girl getting protagonisted when

>>8350667
This is advanced memeing

>>8350222
I read 8 Malazan books and looking back I can't understand their appeal at all.

>>8350597
I was pretty clear, but you didn't comprehend, old books are filtered while new ones aren't. Chances of a new fantasy novel being shit are extremely high, chances of an old work in general being good are likewise much higher.

>>8350672

I don't know, I personally like boring historical texts, so malazan fit me

>>8350672
It has lots and lots of names which gives autists and reddit-types the impression that the series is a complex and masterfully woven tapestry, when in reality it is a mile wide and an inch deep. Also has parts where Erikson spouts his opinions on war, capitalism, religion or whatever which gives another illusion of depth.

>>8350698
I bet he never went to war or had any military experience.

>>8350672
>>8350684
>>8350698
>>8350702

Bad tastes

>>8350702
Probably not, he sounds like your average sheltered weedy leftist. Did you know that the black gooey drug in the eighth book was symbolism for our society's "addiction to oil"?

First for Ring of Light quintet.
Hyper advanced, almost godlike and mystical world

Link to the full story.
http://pastebin.com/raw/nV9iPMNS

>>8350722
>First
It's garbage.

>>8349645

>list

stopped reading there

>>8350719
I didn't read beyond the first, it was pretty awful, saw little reason to go further.
Also, did no one tell him his oil parallel was retarded in the editing process?

>>8350733
It's better than a lot of the popular stuff posted and shilled here on the reg. Read it, it's a short story.

Reading wheel of time I am surprised at how much stuff GRRM lifted from it. The "game of houses", the white cloaks, honor only getting people killed, characters who seemed to be going somewhere suddenly dying, "realistic" depiction of war (armies can starve, soldiers can easily become as bad as bandits with rape plunder etc)

All in all i think whoever described WoT as this pure fantasy only ever read the first book, it reads much more like proto-asoiaf to me.

>>8350749

ASOIAF was before WoT.

>>8350751
Is this bait? Wheel of Time had seven fucking books out before Martin published A Game of Thrones in 1996. Jordan's influence on Martin is undeniable.

>>8350744
I think he has a massive ego, so no. I mostly read them on the recommendation of a cute girl with a huge ass, and there were some fun and interesting parts in the middle which kept me going. I dropped it during the ninth book though because he started taking himself way too seriously and rambling about whatever he could think of instead of just telling the damn story.

>>8350749
The first book often throws people. I know for a fact many people in /sffg/ dropped it without finishing the first book and mistakenly believe it's just a Tolkien-esque road trip adventure for 14 books.

>>8350768

Did you at least give her the Logos?

>>8350775
I did not unfortunately. It was on a university taster course for a few days and then I saw her again at an interview day, and I guess she didn't get in, didn't see her again. Sweet Lord that ass though. It was a black girl's ass on a white girl.

>>8350788
Don't you have her fb or something?

>>8349043
Felt I wasted time reading this. Not a single likeable character in the whole trilogy. I expected Jorg to grow or at least evolve over the course of the books but he just went from katana and trench coat edge to pshh, nothing personnel edge.

He was awful no matter how you look at him. First he hates his father for punishing him for destroying a priceless artifact, then he hates him for not starting a bloody war to avenge his family, then he's surprised something bad happened to him after he joined a band of ruthless criminals and becomes almost a literal monster over it. The whole thing felt like high quality edgy fanfiction. The story and writing was OK, but goddamn those awful characters and especially the edgemaster mary-sue MC.

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>>8350814
I forgot about her for a while and now I can't for the life of me remember her last name. My Logos will have to wait, it seems.

>>8350749
>honor only getting people killed

kek how is this an original concept in any way?

>>8349443
>black magician trilogy
Literally a middle-school drama targeted at a female reader. Harry Potter meets Twilight.

>>8350833
Reading all that and not tapping that ass is such a waste.

>>8349656
I've noticed that I don't really care which one it is as long as the adventure is good. I dislike both high-magic gobbledygook and hyper-scientific jargon. As long as it's a guy killing monsters on his way trough a forest I don't care if he uses a sword or a laser, kills mythological or space beasts, or if it's an earth forest or not.

Why does Bakker look like the guy from Nickelback, is it a Canadian thing?

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>>8349943
I ran though this lecture series a while back (The Great Courses - How Great Science Fiction Works) which was a nice historical survey.

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>>8350612
I wanna know why she's running around destroying depictions of herself.

>>8349645
>Demon Cycle
My first encounter with fantasy horror, unless a few Conan stories qualify, pretty good. I kinda hate the "men are dumb and violent, women run everything" theme, but so far it didn't turn me off. Honestly wish it would have been just 50/50 Arlen and Ahmann chapters, all those other clowns suck.

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>>8350880
Here is some of the reading list from the course, from http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2016/02/great-science-fiction-works-course-sf-gary-k-wolfe/

I had read many of them and have read a few more after listening to the course. We was good, I loved Last and First Men, though it has no plot or characters. Didn't care for Star Maker, though it was almost the same thing. Roadside Picnic was good and has a good backstory, Slan was just okay. I loved Earth Abides. I was indifferent to the Space Merchants (oy) and The Stars My Destination, the first a little preachy, the second a little emo. Just finished A Case of Conscience -- great if you like Christian-themed works. Just started The City and the Stars, which seems good so far.

The thing about reading old genre fiction is that sometimes you read the book and sometimes you read the audience. The piece may have done its work by punching buttons that operate differently on the modern reader. So if that story of mutant supermen doesn't grab you, you can instead read the story of people who loved the story of mutant supermen in the same book.

>>8349645
>Demon Cycle
My first encounter with fantasy horror, unless a few Conan stories qualify, pretty good. I kinda hate the "men are dumb and violent, women run everything" theme, but so far it didn't turn me off. Honestly wish it would have been just 50/50 Arlen and Ahmann chapters, all those other clowns suck.

>>8350933

>Gary K Wolfe

Any relation?

>>8350959
No, he even brings it up

>>8350959

They share the same dinosaur ancestors

>>8349043
I enjoyed the first two books, but holy shit the third one was abysmal. I just don't get how it all went so wrong. The narrative was a cluttered mess, and I found myself utterly uninterested. Not to mention the fact that up until then there had usually been consequences for Jorg's actions, but by the end he's killing the pope and then just strutting away to continue his day uninterrupted because why not?

wtf does 'Pax Universalis' even mean

>>8351013

Universal Peace, duh

>the White Ajah, the Ajah of logic and reason, is the smallest of them all

>which means very few women are inclined to logic and reason

I don't get how people can say Jordan was a feminist, lol.

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Has anyone else read it? It came out a few weeks ago.
I read this last weekend and I found it pretty good. I found the concept of the hexerchat government and the different groups really interesting and I liked how they didn't force the MCs homosexuality into the readers throats and only mention it a few times. But i really disliked the whole "internal mentor" shit with Jedao and would have preferred if he were a physical person.

>>8351124

I haven't, sorry. Not hugely into SF.

>>8351050

>which means very few women are inclined to logic and reason

No, it means few Aes Sedai of the time were interested in joining the ajah most focused on it. You're letting your own beliefs colour the text.

>>8351155

>You're letting your own beliefs colour the text.

But I don't believe that myself, I'm just saying maybe Jordan did. Notice how the world ruled by women was going to utter shit and then a man came along and shit started getting done?

>>8350739
But anon, there is nothing after that

>>8351206
Every great civilization was destroyed shortly after it's women were given equal rights. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Are there any excellent science fiction novels that capture the pleasure of being cummed inside?

>>8351206
It's a subtle dystopia ... emasculate men with insanity causing limitations, taint masculinity, and you get braid tugging, drawn out, boring, and asinine blue balls: 11 books of increasingly stultifying foreplay then death before consummation.

>>8351236
Anything by Chuck Tingle

Why doesn't Vin wear shoes?

>>8351311

She craves the metal cock

Sci-Fi

Neal Stephenson: Seven Eves
Joe Haldeman: Forever War

>Achamian settled his room with the poxed keeper

The fuck did he mean by this?

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>fantasy

Literally the SAO of literature

>>8351479
>can't into metaphors
Why the fuck are you reading anyway?

It means he paid his tab with the acne scarred inn keeper.

What book is that, can't remember that from book 1-3.

>>8351517
English is not my native language. Bua thanks for the rant.

Care to explain?

>>8351517
Book 1 he just left the Worm

>>8351486
>Doesnt take place on earth
>Has Earth's moon
Triggered hard

>Race of pseudo-asians running around in magical armor fighting giant crabs that crawl out of chasms

Control yourself, Sanderson.

>>8351591

I'm pumped for the last three WoT books, I expect a 180 turn from braid tugging and embroidery to full anime swordfights and explosions.

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Hi everyone. You might remember I popped in here once before. I hope some of you submitted last time, if so your work is on the slush and we're looking forward to cracking it open and chomping through it.

That being said, there's still 17 days until the submission window closes. If anyone has a last minute entry they want to put in, now's your chance!

Just to remind everyone:
>The Bard Quarterly
>very short stories (550-950 words)
>every entrant gets a nice comprehensive feedback form
>successful submissions get paid a really minuscule amount of money

This is the last time I'll bother you guys before the big drop on September 1st. Thanks for your time!

>>8351591
It's what makes Sanderson, Sanderson

>>8351595
I quit WoT 10 pages in. Why are all fantasy series really bad and slow in the beginning? Does it get better?

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>>8351311
CUTE GIRL FEET
U
T
E

G
I
R
L

F
E
E
T

>>8350626
>>8351728
who is vin

>>8351616
wait gosh darn it goodman

Where do we submit the short stories? Care to post more details about it? I wasn't around last time you posted.

>>8349013
Xeelee
Warhammer 40k Old ones/Necrons

>>8351523
Pox scarring is common olden description for acne

Settling an account means paying it

>>8351723
Because most fantasy authors use their books as an excuse to show off how cool their imaginary worlds are.

>>8351523
Fantasy usually takes place before our current era of medicine and hygiene.

A lot of persons that got the pox and survived had cystic severe acne likes holes left on their faces, they probably got acne too. That is where "poxed marked" comes from.

It's just a simplistic description. Instead of:
>Achamian after finishing his stay at the Inn, paid to the greasy faced, acne poxed marked Innkeeper what was owed for meals, room and board.
We have
>Achamian settled his room with the poxed keeper

>>8351728
Me on the left

>>8351763
The got a facebook page if I recall... but remember they are paying you for your story. That means they own it after the fact.. proceed at your own caution.

>>8351737
Vin Diesel, main charecter of the Fast and Furious saga

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Could anyone recommend me something with (known) different schools of magic, wizards etc.

>>8351861
What do you mean by (known)?

>>8351875
Hum, like illusion magic is one school, elemental is another? I've read "The Magicians" by Lev Grossman but it wasn't really my thing

>>8351814
It means that literally, but it can also metaphorically be a synonym for blasted, cursed, damned or the like.

If he had had a run-in with the innkeeper he might call him a "poxed bastard" or refer to him as that poxed innkeeper, whether he bore any signs of disease or not.

>>8351875
What I'm trying to say is that magic shouldn't be an uncontrolled thing and unknown to everyone in the world (Lotr is an example of this), it should be studied and researched.

>>8351861
>>8351884

Have you tried The Magicians by Lev Gorssman he did that

>>8351909
>>8351884

Did you read my second post at all or are you just mocking me..

I really like the Foundation series. Is there anything else like it outside of Asimov?

>>8350933
Saved with thanks.

I posted >>8349943 in a spirit of genuine inquiry, as well as with a mischievous nod and wink to the dino anon, whose indefatigable nature resembles a fundamentalist. It is more comical when the newer books that are offered are palpably inferior to works that have withstood decades of scrutiny.

>>8349943
None of the those are obscure or even unpopular.

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Is HP Lovecraft worth reading?

I know this is going to sound super cringey, but I recently played through the game Bloodborne and I loved its story and themes, and I've read that a lot of it draws heavily from HP Lovecraft.

Never read anything by him before, and in fact, I don't think I've ever read a horror book before. I read a lot of Philip K Dick, Alfred Bester, Clarke, Asimov, and some other fantasy/sci-fi authors that are all much more contemporary. I don't think I've ever read anything older than Tolkien.

>>8352000
He has certain qualities and a few genuinely great stories, but as an author I would advise against going too deep in his, he will get repetitive.

>>8351828
I got hundreds of short stories, I'll select the best one outside of my canon and submit it

>>8352009
Any other recommendations for someone who wants to read more about cosmic/existential horror? The ideas from the game I mention are the type I'm looking to explore.

Stuff like: horrors that are reside beyond a person's perception, but by expanding his mind he opens himself up to experiencing the terrible realization that his understanding of the universe is like a single flickering candle trying to illuminate the whole of the world.

The game does this really well, and there are whole castes of people who seek to understand what the reality of their universe is, but by doing so they doom themselves to insanity. The monsters in the game are not evil, but indifferent towards the lowly people. They care for a person much the same way that a person cares for an ant. Wiping out a city, or destroying an entire race of people is no more to them than stepping on a spider.

>>8352075
William Hope Hodgson's 1908 book, The House On The Borderland, is a cosmic horror classic. Lovecraft was a fan. An extract from the second chapter:

>
A great while seemed to pass over me, and now I could nowhere see anything. I had passed beyond the fixed stars and plunged into the huge blackness that waits beyond. All this time I had experienced little, save a sense of lightness and cold discomfort. Now however the atrocious darkness seemed to creep into my soul, and I became filled with fear and despair. What was going to become of me? Where was I going? Even as the thoughts were formed, there grew against the impalpable blackness that wrapped me a faint tinge of blood. It seemed extraordinarily remote, and mistlike; yet, at once, the feeling of oppression was lightened, and I no longer despaired.

>Slowly, the distant redness became plainer and larger; until, as I drew nearer, it spread out into a great, somber glare—dull and tremendous. Still, I fled onward, and, presently, I had come so close, that it seemed to stretch beneath me, like a great ocean of somber red. I could see little, save that it appeared to spread out interminably in all directions.

>In a further space, I found that I was descending upon it; and, soon, I sank into a great sea of sullen, red-hued clouds. Slowly, I emerged from these, and there, below me, I saw the stupendous plain that I had seen from my room in this house that stands upon the borders of the Silences.

>Presently, I landed, and stood, surrounded by a great waste of loneliness. The place was lit with a gloomy twilight that gave an impression of indescribable desolation.

>>8352075
just go and read "the shadow out of time" from Lovecraft

>>8351206
And men almost destroyed the world in the first place with their arrogance. You're only taking away what you want from it without looking at the bigger picture. He says repeatedly that men and women together are necessary for achieve anything truly great. Men tried to seal Shai'tan by themselves, and got the male half of the True Source tainted for 3000 years as a result. Women tried to guide the nations of men by themselves and failed miserably to unite them. The Aes Sedai though are not solely to blame, since the Black Ajah do work to undermine their progress and Ishamael set them back almost irreparably by turning Artur Hawkwing against them. Still, they should have confronted the seriousness of the Black Ajah like Egwene did instead of allowing them to grow and fester for centuries, that too is a failing of theirs.

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I heard the third book of Aspect Emperor is out. Can a bratan post a link or something. I looked at everywhere for a .epub link but its nowhere to be found.

>>8352299

>it is literally among the first Google results for "aspect emperor epub"

Are you a nonman?

>>8352231

You're actually right anon, I stand corrected. Although in my defense I still have to read the last 3 books and a half of book 11.

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>Pretentious writer
>Among the poorest world and character descriptions I've ever read in a book
>Horrible use of metaphors
>Generic story
>unloading one thousand different names without context
>"muh philosofy,so deep"

I can't believe I fell for the Bakker meme.

>>8352374
Me reading Wolfe.

>>8352374
Bakker is /b/, /pol/ and /mlp/ together. It's shit.

No wonder he's not popular and "mainstream". He's garbage.

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Well lads, it's been a year since I last posted in one of these generals asking for the interest/viability of a premise and idea I had. Proud to say that I'm just about to finish the first draft of that novel (just over 100k words).

It's been hard since my approach to writing is dependent upon 3-4 day bursts of incredible productivity at 4-8k words a day followed by months of braindeadness.

But thanks everyone. I really hope the final product will live up to the dreams that I had when I first started bothering you all about it.

So what there were hundreds of moonspawns before they got destroyed? Why can't they make more of them now

>>8352075
Ligotti is really good for this, one of the few who've managed to build on Lovecraft without becoming a carbon copy. Try "The Last Feast of Harlequin".

>>8352374
>horrible use of metephors
THats just like, your opinion, man.

>Unloading different names without context
Because he doesn't handhold you through the story? Literally everything is given context if you stick around.

>"muh philosofy,so deep"
Said literally nobody ever.

>poorest world descriptions
>Literally one of the most interesting aspects of his story

>generic story
Is this bait?

>>8352625
Nice one Bakker. Enjoy your mediocre mental masturbation.

>>8352651
You too, Wolfe.

>>8352625
>>poorest world descriptions
>>Literally one of the most interesting aspects of his story

Being blind sure is fun!

Kill yourself.

>>8351861
Mistborn, Stormlight Archive. Although it isn't the classical type of magic with pointy hats you might be looking for.
Alternatively Equal Rites by Terry Pratchett shows the difference in wizard magic, men, and witch magic, women, quite nicely.

>>8352653

>Bakker better than Wolfe

Thanks for the laugh m8

>>8352665
>Wolfe better than Bakker

Sides = gone

>>8351947
Canticle for Leibowiz maybe.

>>8352662
Thank you!

>>8352669
>>8352653
>>8352625

I didn't realize we had this amount of Chilling in /sff/

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>>8352657
Just because it all isn't infodumped on you at once, doesn't mean it isn't there. Have some patience, and the things you don't understand will be explained

>>8352669
>>8352653

What does Wolfe have to do with anything you faggot?>>8352683
>Just because it all isn't infodumped on you at once

>>8352675
You're welcome. Also read more Pratchett.

>>8352669

Kill yourself.

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>>8352683
>Just because it all isn't infodumped on you at once

I hope you see irony where I saw humor in that phrase.

>>8352689
I haven't read any Pratchett..

Wolfe shitters in full defense force now that he is exposed as a hack.

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>>8352699
There's your problem right there.

>>8352699
I'm so sorry, Anon.

>>8352711
This is confusing me, do I have to start with the Ricewind novels?

Just finished The First Law series by Joe Abercrombie
Really liked it
Any recommendations on something similar to read next?

>>8352362
The Sanderson books are mostly focused on pulling the various plot threads together after Jordan spent books 9 through 11 basically treading water. The last book is almost entirely about The Last Battle, the two before it are Rand getting his shit in order to fight it.

>>8351861
Trudi Canavan's Black Magician trilogy might be interesting to you. Or maybe even Wizard of Earthsea though it's not really what you'd call a modern novel.

Whats this beef between Gene Wolfe and Bakker?

>>8352720
You don't have to. You can just pick any series, or even any book at random and jump in. While they reference each other, and this chart doesn't even show all the connections, each story is pretty much self-contained.

Release order is always best though.

>>8352746
You can try his standalone novels if you want more of that world

You could also try Bakker, A Cavern of Black Ice, The Thousand Names, or The Powder Mage

>>8352720
No, the different lines focus on different character groups, as the legend says the yellow ones are starter books for their respective settings. They all share a world and several characters appear in many books, not only their own, most notably Death. Just pick a trail where to start. If you'd like to try different characters switch trails after a book or two. It is possible to read in order of publication, but this chart makes it easier.

>>8352764
Manufactured beef because Wolfe is the standard that all e/lit/ists hold /sffg/ to.

>>8352720
Don't follow that order. Read them in the order they were published.

>>8352720
As a general rule if anybody gives you a "reading order" that is anything other than the order in which they were published then you can assume you're talking to either somebody with severe autism or a wannabe literature professor. In both cases you can ignore them and just read whatever set of books you have in the order they were published, like everybody else did.

>>8352720
>>8352786
>>8352783
>>8352778
Whatever you do, don't start with the newest books.

>>8352790
Generally true, but the thing about Pratchett is he didn't start especially strong with Colour of Magic, got increasingly better peaking around Hogfather/Wee Free Men era, then got old and Alzheimery so some of the later books had a lot of input from his daughter, so they aren't quite the same. You want to start somewhere in the middle.

Guys please help, I just finished Imajica by Clive Barker and I want something more.
It reminded me a bit of The Stand by Stephen King in a way, I absolutely love books about a journey, whether that be literal or metaphorical (but preferably literal).

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What the fuck should I read in this summer?

I devoured The Stormlight Archive's 1 and 2. I've tried Bakker and hated it.

Suggestions?

>>8352827
First Law by Abercrombie

>>8352827
Mistborn or Elantris if you haven't already, they're pretty fun.

>>8352792
I'll start with Colour of magic then and then go on readin- GOD HOW MANY BOOKS HAS HE WRITTEN

>>8352833
Can any one back this up?

>>8352835
I're read the Mistborn Series and found them inferior to The Stormlight Archive.

I'm really afraid Sanderson has created a Standard for me other authors can't fill.

>>8352845
>I'm really afraid Sanderson has created a Standard for me other authors can't fill.

Have you tried reading light novels?

>>8352827
Power Mage
The Thousand Names
Lightbringer
The Licanius Trilogy

>>8352845
I actually haven't the Stormlight books yet so I can't really comment on that. They're just good fun fantasy to me.

>>8352845
First Law is babbys first grimdark

>>8349043
Malazan, Second Apocalypse, First Law

>>8352811
bumping this

>>8352849
What do you mean by light?

The First Law series is alright, I've only read three in. Glokta is great fun. Name of the Wind started strong, but my God the second book read like plot filler.

I've been thinking about A Canticle for Leibowitz again recently. Man, that was a fucking great book. I'd highly recommend it for any sci-fi lovers.

>>8352746
The Black Company.

>>8352800
Why start at the top from where the only way is downhill?

What do you guys think Vin's armpits smell like?

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Where do I start with Gene "The Meme" Wolfe?

>>8352980
Fifth Head of Cerberus, it's short, but some of the best he's done. It will introduce you to the way he does things.

>>8352969
destitution and semen

>>8352980
Start with the digestible stuff. Read a short story collection and see if you like anything.

>>8352969
Salty milk and coins.

Any sword and sorcery featuring a teenage girl protag?

a lewd girl?

>>8350933
>Baxter - Evolution

that was fucking depressing

made me want to top myself after finishing

>>8351861
Bakker's stuff deals a lot with the metaphysics behind his setting's magic.

>>8349960
Red Rising's sequel, Golden Sun is equivalent to an Ender's Game sequel, if Ender didn't turn into a fucking hippie

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I've been on the lookout for a new series to get into, something that is different from the usual high fantasy stuff.

I've obviously heard about the Dark Tower series before, and I know that King generally produced good but not great stuff. So, how is it? Good? Entertaining at least? From what I've read he managed to create a neat universe, but a 7 part series is still a pretty big undertaking.

>>8352546
The kchain chemalle made them. They are now extinct

>>8353292
Read Salem's Lot. If you like it you can start the series.

>>8353292
Books 1-3 are good
Books4-7 get progressively worse, taking a nosedive at book 6

>>8352611
can't find an ebook anywhere, just says it was published in a magazine in 1990. any ideas?

>>8353311
It's the first story in Grimscribe if that helps

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>>8353292
Book 1 is a King outlier, written in a compelling and different style from his usual work. The rest revert to plain old King form. 2 and 3 are adequate, then it just dissolves to the point I can't remember where I dropped it.

Note the publication date gaps. That's usually a big warning sign.

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>>8349013
>finally figure out the missing piece for my novel to make it meaningful
>it requires reworking everything from the ground up
Fuck

>>8349013
Is the elric saga good?

Y'all like the wheel of time series?

>>8353547
tug on my braid and I'll tell ya

>>8353547
I found the first book to be boring and dragged on too long and started but couldn't finish the second book.

>>8353547
I would never tell a woolheaded sheepherder like you

>>8351904
Sanderson's Elantris, warbreaker, and way of kings
Brent Weeks' night angel and Lightbringer series
Jim Butcher's codex alera

>>8353607
Codex Alera is a good one.

With the huge bonus that it tells a complete, finished story and keeps its quality to the end.

Plus there's a funny anecdote about why it was written.

>>8352827
Have a look in here >>8349443

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What's some fantasy or sci-fi focused on lefty themes? I'm not talking identity stuff like racism. I'm looking for proletarian revolutions, labour organization and post-capitalist societies.

>>8353682
The Culture series is commie utopianism

>>8353682
Das Kapital.

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>>8349013
>What's your favorite example of hyper-advanced, almost godlike technology in SFF?
I like the whole "manipulation of mathematical concepts" angle.

>>8353547
I just started book 4, it's been great ever since the end of book 1 but man it was boring leading up to it. I don't get everyone's beef with Aes Sedai, they're my favorite chapters.

When do I find out how magic works? One of the things I originally heard about it was its great magic system, but I'm on book 4 and I'll I know is that there are different types of magic, catalysts that sometimes do random shit, and they "touch the True Source and become filled with it," whatever that means.

>>8353627
>keeps its quality to the end
That's easy since it doesn't have much quality to begin with.

>>8353732
Also, what the fuck do they mean by sniffing? Do the people of this world literally sniff when they're irritated?

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>Achamian reached out, planning to draw a finger through the groove down the centre of Esmenet’s back, but he hesitated, clasping a handful of stained coverings instead

I'm about to burn this fucking book seriously. I can't believe this is comprehensible to most, even for native language speakers.

I tired guys. It just breaks the immersion for me. That and looking at the fucking map every 2 pages.

>>8353742
A sign of disgust or displeasure. Not a very common body language anymore.

>>8349036

Parts of Second Apocalypse is your jam probably. Especially this latest volume.

The world is granary... and we are the bread

Why is science fiction so much better than fantasy

>scifi
exploring the universe, understanding natural laws, making social/technological progress...

>fantasy
being the servants of moronic gods, looking up to "elves", dying at 30 because of your teeth, being at the mercy of forces you have no control over

fantasy is for peasants, science fiction is for humanists.

>>8353732
Dunno if this will ruin it for you or not, but Jordan doesn't really go into a whole lot of detail about the Source, as in its origins or why it exists etc. WoT isn't really about explaining the mysteries of its own universe, most of the characters in it don't know or understand much about the universe in which they live in the first place, and the one guy who actually does is totally insane and trying to destroy all creation.

>>8353682
Sanderson is a filthy republican, so is brian stavely. They have books were people give up the monarchy for a republic. If that isn't left I don't know what is.

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>>8353912
whyugotashitpost?

>>8353934

Im only half-shitposting. Is not fantasy worse than scifi?

>>8353939
>>8353939
in my opinion its about the same

>>8353780
It means he wanted to run/rub his finger down her spine, got too beta, and held the cum stained, pussy juice drenched sheets with his fists.

What is so hard? I didn't even have to think to understand what he said.

Read more, stop being an elitist and get some ya, they would explain shit more and give you a better feel of the language.

>>8353939
They are both fantasy, just that one deals mostly with the technology or medical aspects of life. The other has infinite range.

>>8353780
Bakker's names for people and places feel like a big screw-you to the reader.
>Hey asshole, this place is called "chianadyni" good luck sounding that one out mother fucker.

>>8353957
>stop being an elitist

You've got to be shitting me. Bakker's the one trying to be an elitist and failing miserably.

Pretentious writing = Bad writting

>>8353983
she-ad-ee-ni?

>>8353981
The difference is SF explores things that COULD be possible in the future, where fantasy looks to deliberately unreal things (just like the folklore and mythology it grew out of).

>>8353992
And? What of it?

>>8353992
>What we share is incomprehensible to other men. As one we cry out in our sleep. With such a bond—like a vice!—how can loyalty to another be anything short of sedition?

What did he mean by this

>>8353999
meant for >>8353957

>>8353992
So are you some kind of teenager who thinks he's really smart for reading sci-fi or something? You'd impress a lot more goodreads girls if you read some pomo fiction and philosophy and acted pretentious about that.

>>8353998
Exploration of a possible future =/= fantasy (especially since some things become reality, like Verne's submarine and moon rocket)

>>8354006
So what? Do you have a point or do you just love reading your own posts?

>>8353990
Shia-na-die-nee?

>>8353990
He put a pronunciation guide at the back of the first book

>>8354010
Nah, just responding to the idea that "they are both fantasy" (>>8353981). If I wanted to be really unbearable I'd have called it Speculative Fiction :^)

PKD wrote "Flow my tears, the policeman said" without knowing where the story would lead. He didn't know how to explain what he wrote so he finished with some bullshit explanation in the end. Fuck PKD for writing this book.

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Not enough Cherryh in dis thread.

>>8353983
Cheee-ann-add-dee-knee

>>8354025
Flow your tears, I say

>>8353999
How the mandate dreaming the horrors of the apocalypse keeps them United and prevents them from being manipulated by other powers

>>8354031
I just did.

>>8354028
Who is this divine feline?

>>8353999
It means the share a bond closer than brothers, formed over some great peril in the past that still gives them nightmares. It's also bakker trying to get philosophical.

Are you gonna do the "what did he mean" meme all the way through the book? Because I'm done holding hour hand.

>>8354021
>Because fuck immersion

And I thought the semestre was over.

>>8354042
That would be Captain Pyanfar Chanur. Apparently the domesticated pet version.

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>>8354042
>>8354061
>tfw suddenly monkey tits.

>>8353351
The Drawing of the Three was such a simple novella, I can't even imagine how it took him that long to write it


First three are really good, everything else should be burned and never spoken of

>>8354055
If you're struggling use the guide? You don't really need it. I don't see what the problem is

>>8354076
>two breasts
Four too few imho

>>8351769
you must be the only other person ive ever encountered who know the xeelee

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>>8352905
The standalone books are far better than the trilogy especially The Heroes. Book 6 is dull, but book 4 and 5 are pretty damn great and are much better than the previous 3 books.

I read and adored Moving Mars. I went on to read Eon, now I'm nearing the end and things are straying a bit far from "hard sf" for me. I'm assuming the rest of The Way series follows this route?

>>8354087
Requiring you to Look at the map every 2 pages is bad writing.

He dumps useless names on you while neglecting character and landscape descriptions.

>R. Scott Bakker is a student of literature, history, philosophy and ancient languages. He divides his time between writing philosophy and fantasy, though he often has difficulty distinguishing between them. He lives in London, Ontario
>though he often has difficulty distinguishing between them.
>"Muh philosophy"

Tell me if this isn't the biggest pseudo edgy faggot writer you've read.

>>8354096
Indeed, fan-art seems to be lacking here.

>>8353021
the artifacts of power books by maggie furey?

any of tamora peirces stuff, although i think that might be YA

>>8353682
Raft by Stephen Baxter

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>>8354106
>especially The Heroes

>The Darkness That Comes Before, by R. Scott Bakker, is a novel about a bunch of needlessly complicated names doing things at each other. There's no descriptions of any of these multisyllabic people, or any kind of introduction to the consonant-heavy locations the events happen in. It's a book written to take advantage of its own glossary, and uses enough Philosophy 101 to make sure people who "get" it feel smart and get violently defensive.

Bakkerfags in a Nutshell

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Is The Night Land worth a read? I've had trouble sticking it through in the past.

>>8354148
>stop liking what I don't like!

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>>8354100
Xeelee is mentioned relatively frequently ITTs.

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wtf this is great

>>8354282
It's a pretty solid series. Only takes a questionably hit during water sleeps or whatever book it switches PoVs

>>8354308
I'm only on my first read-through of book one. I don't get the criticism everywhere about his style of writing being hard to get into. To be honest I had a harder time getting into Sanderson's WoK because of all the superfluous bullshit. Cook gets to the point and actually has a way with words.

>>8354334
I did really like the first book but never managed to get into the rest.

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>>8354308
Water Sleeps was a great phrase.

>>8354400
Very much agreed,

I didnt even mind the PoV shift, but I know it bothered some people.

>>8353470
Yes. It's not amazing, but it's pretty solid.
>>8353682
The Dispossessed by Ursula le Guin.
>>8353780
That sentence makes no sense, does he not read his own stuff?
>>8354116
Is he into Marxism or Phenomenology, otherwise how do you confuse fantasy and philosophy lel

>>8354659
Not even, he just does basic causality. What comes before determines what comes after.
But apparently that's deep philosophy to shitposters.

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Gayman just did a "ten best books" thing; turns out he has surprisingly good taste
http://onegrandbooks.com/shop/curators/neil-gaiman/

>>8354155
Try a modernized retelling. The book has great parts, but there's a hell of a lot autistic food and sleep catalogueing, footwashing, and spanking in the middle.

>>8354674
He often does introductions to cool novels.

>>8354674

Gaiman is patrician, he only writes redditcore for the bucks.

>>8354674
Looks like pretty bad taste to me

>>8354893
I expected a few non anglo works and a few more classics, but given fantasy is his primary interest, this makes sense.
>>8354881
I liked his introductions to Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, kind of expected to see it there

Melenkurion abatha! Looks like Thomas Covenant is going to get raped by his rape child. 'She is difficult to refuse?' Please tell me this is not where it's going.

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Is prescience confusing or am I a retard?

>>8354195
but you're still the only other person. You're special anon.

I WONT FORGET YOU

>>8354967
I'm afrait is is the second

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>>8355087
There are three of us.

>>8354665
That is on his book.

>>8355439
>>8355439
>>8355439

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