/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

I am new to /lit/ and wondering Brandon Sanderson got so much hate in here?
I have read a few books of him and I think they are OK. His lectures are great, too.

>>8355447
>I am new to /lit/ and wondering Brandon Sanderson got so much hate in here?
Because he writes for morons.
His characters are shit, his prose is embarrassing, his world building is pointless drivel. Just about everything people here enjoy in literature is not only missing, but straight out awful.

>>8354659
>That sentence makes no sense, does he not read his own stuff?
Are you trolling?
If not how old are you?
I don't believe anyone who "supposedly" reads as much as we are expected to, says that sentence makes no sense.

>>8355454
His world building is good, and the rest is true of everything in the genre

>>8355439
>What are your Best Wolfe Books?
New and Short Sun, The Wizard Knight, Fifth Head of Cerberus, still haven't read Peace
>What are your Best Anti-Wolfe Books?
What's that supposed to mean? Best anti Wolfe as in most retarded? Bakker and Rothfuss.
Best anti Wolfe as in different in the way the author writes? Tolkien I would say.
Best anti-Wolfe theme wise? Peake and his anti traditionalism.
>Best post 2000 Dinosaur books?
The only science fiction or fantasy written in this decade by not Wolfe was Golden Age. Wasn't amazing, but it does a job at taking you for a ride.
Perodio Street Station was not horrible but not exactly good, it was really long, but didn't have the characters to support the length and also as it went on the annoying preaching became unbearable.
Abercrombie, Bakker, Sanderson, Rothfuss,Scalzi and the dude who wrote The Red Knight were all pretty bad. Not sure if I've read anything else.

>Best Wolfe
Soldier of the Mist/Arete/Sidon

>Anti-Wolfe
wut?

>post 2000 dinosaur books
Dinotopia: Journey to Chandara

>>8355481
Kim Stanley Robinson has been good

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>>8355487
>he took the dinosaur literally

>it's a Wolfe edition

I am reading through The Island Of Doctor Death And Other Stories and Other Stories and I am not getting it, like at all.

>The Island Of Doctor Death And Other Stories

Uhh...the kid is making up characters from his book to deal with his druggie mother?

>Alien Stones

I think this one is about consciousness, memory, and completely unfathomable (for us humans) ways of thinking.

>La Befana

No fucking idea. Christ is involved somehow, or maybe the Virgin Mary I think.

>The Hero as Werwolf

Even less of a clue than La Befana.

I think I'm too retarded for Wolfe.

>>8355497
He's just a pretentious meme.

>>8355481
>didn't have the characters to support the length
>implying Lin's fucked-up family, the Ambassador to Hell, & Yagharek's choice-theft bits weren't GOAT
I can see Isaac as a weak spot though, dude was Basil Exposition for most of the first half.

>>8355497
>Uhh...the kid is making up characters from his book to deal with his druggie mother?
well thanks capt. obvious
but its also about the joys and comfort we find in the stories
and reader response

>>8355491
I haven't read him yet. Out of the post 2000 he doesn't get mentioned very often.
>>8355497
You got Island. Kid was making it up to cope with his slowly dying mother who was also fucking her dealer. She dies at the end, the two narratives are diametrical in a way, the fiction has a happy end, his life, not so much.
Hero as a Werewolf is about a werewolf who is trying to convince you that eating humans is actually not so bad, but his story is full of holes and he's actually just an evil being.
>>8355507
First half didn't have anything interesting about the characters and having 400 pages of exposition is extremely dull. Science fiction and fantasy have this strange fixation on pointlessly long stories.

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Tell me some books that present manipulation or exploitation of mathematical concepts.

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>>8355481
>grouping Sanderson with red knight
Get fucked

>>8355545
It was better, but still something not worth reading. It was dull, stupid and gave me Abercrombie flashbacks.

>>8355549
>It was better
Oh, lel. Didn't realize that this was "bantz", you got me good.

>>8355491
I didn't like his book Aurora: main character wasn't even a character, the AI wasn't interesting, the whole plot (generation ship, crew division, dangers and threats, secret other blown-up ship) felt pointless and better done in other books in my opinion. The micro-fauna messing with the ship ecosystem was the only thing going for it.

>>8355447

Because he's very popular and successful.

>>8355560

pretty much this, just typical online biterness

>>8355447
>>8355560 ←this
Multi-million dollar deal to write what is his passion, and the pseuds here can't even get an agent to call them back. Pure saline.

Also read this thread >>8345057

>>8355549
Are you saying he's better or worse than Abercrombie?

>>8355574
He is saying it's better than Sanderson, but still shit that gave him Abercrombie flashbacks. I think it's safe to say it's worse than Abercrombie, at least he finished Abercrombie, he dropped red knight.

>>8355622
Stop spamming this awful garbage.

>>8355538
>muh Flatland

>>8355574
Better, but I didn't feel like going through another 600 pages of dullness after it. He had a decency to have descriptions and have some non full on generic characters.
His not church was also really lacking in imagination and actually had so little knowledge of medieval theology he presented gnostic dualism as the mainstream teaching, which triggered me. If you want to insert the rosary, Jesus, monasteries and all that stuff, have the self respect to read a book on it.

Just finished another series, I like novels where you learn things, like Brent Weeks taught sword play, Malazan series taught how to do war, how bad war is, to avoid capitalism and oil industry and complex human interaction, so what should I read next

>>8355728
The Buried Giant

>>8355728
This is quality irony

what did /sffg/ think of the harry potter play?

>>8355781
A hot pile of garbage

>>8355728
Read powder Mage so you can learn how to load a flintlock

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>>8355728
Perhaps you would enjoy learning about the gradient?

>>8355798

Thank you

>>8355890

The gradient?

>>8355900
>The gradient?
I guess not.

It does cover zero g hand-to-hand combat and strategy at length.

>>8355728
If you're low IQ anon, shouldn't you still be working through Malazan?

>>8355439
>What are your Best Wolfe Books?
Peace is the true patrician's choice. Followed by New Sun and Soldier Series

>What are your Best Anti-Wolfe Books?
I don't know what this exactly means, but if Wolfe is heavily literary and nuanced, then I'm guessing you're asking for something straightforward and simple, in which case I would probably go with someone like Robert E. Howard or R. Scott Bakker.

>>8355522
>Kid was making it up to cope with his slowly dying mother who was also fucking her dealer.

It's heavily inferred that the characters aren't, in fact, made up and are actually appearing in 'real life'. The kid's aunt even goes so far as to claim she sees Dr. Death when they go to eat. Also, Dr. Death is the one who saves the Kid from seeing any more of the depravity his mother is involved with, so there's a bit more going on that simply "IT'S ALL IN HIS HEAD". The idea that Wolfe is trying to convey is that truly meaningful and lasting stories work their way into our sub-conscience and form our perceptions, as well as fortify our virtues and morals to detect dangerous and depraved situations when they arrive. It's the reason why Dr. Death, the antagonist in the book the kid reads, is actually the protagonist of the actual story. Dr. Death teaches the Kid about evil and sin by depicting evil and sin. He's a teacher, not a villain.

>>8356001

Hello he is not me, but I did finish Memories of Ice today! Going to start House of Chains soon.

>>8356140
Are you black?

>>8356156

No, Europe

>>8356158
I asked if you were black, not where you are from. France is 1/3 niggers by now.

>>8355781

It was shit just like the HP books, so I don't see what the big deal about it is.

>>8356159

I am white

>>8356159
>>8356156

why are you racist

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I posted yesterday but didn't get a reply.
I'm looking for a book, or series or books, but preferably just a singular book, about a great journey.
I've read The Stand by Stephen King and although the ending was utter shite, the journey and character building was wonderful. Also just finished Imajica by Clive Barker and even though the ending was a little corny I still really enjoyed it.
if the characters travel through different different countries, planets, dimensions, dominions, hell, even time or anywhere really as long as the scenery changes from time to time and is well fleshed out I'd be happy.

what would you recommend to read next out of these 3:

Great Book of Amber
Chronicles of Black Company
Black Sun Rising

>>8356337

Kingkiller chronicles by Rothfuss

>>8356350
Black Sun Rising is the best imo

>>8356363
thanks, are they all good though?
gonna read them all eventually

>>8356369
Yes

>>8356357
I've already read those, they sort of fit what I'm looking for but not quite.

>>8356399

The blade itself maybe?
There is a great journey in that, magic too

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>>8356405

>recommending Abercrombie

>>8356405
How is Abercrombie's stuff? I've never read any before and tend not to pay attention to idiots like this >>8356407

>>8356422
Great. Book 1 is a bit slow but the payoff is worth it. The stand alone books in the same universe are pretty good too, some even like it better than the series.

>>8356337
Voyage to Arcturus

>>8356431
I can certainly deal with slow, as long as that time is used to build up a world or the characters then I actually prefer a slower pacing, thanks for the tip!

>>8356444
From what I've just read, that sounds quite interesting, thanks anon

>>8355625
You're that one anon getting triggered every thread. If you don't like it, ignore it. God knows posting a link alone is better than half the shit being posted and """"discussed"""" here.

>>8356337

Malazan
The Magicians by Lev

>>8356407

What epic fantasy series do you like?
Genuinely curious

>>8356482

If by "epic" fantasy you mean stuff like WoT, Malazan, and Bakker then I don't like it at all.

The problem with Abercrombie is that it's subversion and edge for its own sake, aka he's so preoccupied with deconstructing fantasy tropes he forgets the book also has to be good.

>>8356481
I've definitely been considering the Malazan books! How is the journey aspect though? Is the reader taken through different countries and climates? A big part of reading Imajica was actually the travelling through deserts and snowy mountains and places filled with exotic plants and animals.
I've never heard of The Magicians before, what's it like?

>>8356509

What non-epic fantasy series do you like then

>>8356528
It's the guy that hates everything that isn't Wolfe or 100 years old.

>>8356528

I like BOTNS but also more recent works by Van Der Meer, Swanwick, Powers, and Guy Gavriel Kay.

>>8356532

Not him, sorry. Plenty of good books come out every year, Abercrombie just happens to not be among them.

>>8356509


Fantasy are supposed to be easy-reads, enjoyable tales and means of escaping for a while, like a video game or T.V show
Of course you won't enjoy them with a stick up your pretentious arse

>>8356550

>Fantasy are supposed to be easy-reads, enjoyable tales and means of escaping for a while, like a video game or T.V show

I disagree. I think this attitude is what brought about the horde of shit fantasy we have been seeing recently. And I prefer my sff to be well written and well thought out.

Luckily there's still plenty of good authors who won't stand for being literary McDonalds. SFF can be so much more.

>>8356524
Someone reply to me instead of these bickering children.

>>8356524

Yes for Malazan.

>>8356547
Protip, there isn't much of 100 year old fantasy out there and the oldest I've read in general is like 80.

>>8356337
Pushing Ice - Alastair Reynolds - a comet mining ship and crew in the near future is dragged kicking and screaming on a long journey through space to a mysterious destination.
.
Terminal Planet - Alastair Reynolds - main character travels and does stuff on a weird science fiction world where the scenery changes a lot, the world is really interesting and multifaceted. Different modes of transportation too.

>>8355447

What is wrong with Sanderson btw? He is on the recommended list
I have The Way of Kings on its way from Amazon

>>8356524
>Is the reader taken through different countries and climates?
Definitely. Erikson was apparently trained as an archaeologist/anthropologist and he loves building up multiple civilizations. It is sometimes difficult to keep track of them all over the entire series (I'm on book 7).

>>8356749

Don't the books go to shit at some point?

>>8355454
>bakker fags in a nutshell

>>8356748
Nothing, just ignore bakker faggots

Sanderson is my favourite fantasy author.

>>8356755
The general claim is that it takes a nosedive at 7, since that's the book I'm on I can't yet attest to the statement's veracity.

>>8356758
>>8356773
What the hell are you doing? That's the Wolfefag, and he hates Bakker.

I don't even know how you connected Bakker to Sanderson.

>>8356749
Well I'm sold, I'm very excited for this series now!

>>8356781
No need to read wolfe to kow how bad bakker is.

>>8356773
You have a case of shit taste son

>>8356791
This is an English speaking board, you seem to be lost.

>>8356773

Is Bakker good too? I've the Darkness that comes before series is good

I'm new to fantasy, there seems to be some fanboyism/rivalry when it comes to some authors, I don't get it

>>8356805
He's arguably the best fantasy author of the 21st century so far, so yes.

Like with everything, people get off by saying my taste > your taste and hate popular things.

>>8356805
Don't do the same mistakes I did. Bakker is by far the worst fantasy author I've read.

>>8356814
>>8356809

lel, can you guys explain why?

>>8356826
Read it and form your own opinion.

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>>8356805
Don't fall into the Bakker meme.

This is written in his books introductions.

>R. Scott Bakker is a student of literature, history, philosophy and ancient languages. He divides his time between writing philosophy and fantasy, though he often has difficulty distinguishing between them. He lives in London, Ontario
>though he often has difficulty distinguishing between them.
>"Muh philosophy"

This is a small part from the best review I could find on Bakker:

>The Darkness That Comes Before, by R. Scott Bakker, is a novel about a bunch of needlessly complicated names doing things at each other. There's no descriptions of any of these multisyllabic people, or any kind of introduction to the consonant-heavy locations the events happen in. It's a book written to take advantage of its own glossary, and uses enough Philosophy 101 to make sure people who "get" it feel smart and get violently defensive.

>>8356826
Like >>8356832 said. Just don't buy his books. Download them and read the 1st 100 pages on your PC.

>>8356481
>The Magicians by Lev

Lev Grossman? I get pissed whenever I see this edgy piece of grimdark tryhard garbage recommended everywhere. It was the worst book I've ever had the displeasure of reading, and that says a lot because I skim-read Twilight ironically. People masturbate all over about this series and it's worse than Harry Potter, because at least HP, while shitty and shallow, was whimsical and comfy and had characters you could like. I wish I could rip out my memories of it.

>>8356913

Do you happen to like Bakker?

>Raymond E. Feist

What should I read from him? If anything at all.

>>8356913
Agreed. Honestly even worse than shit like Sanderson, Weeks and Butcher, if that was possible.

>>8356952
The Empire series

>>8356931

Haven't gotten to it yet. If you want to know I also hated the Dresden series and hate seeing it shilled everywhere as well. But the author of that doesn't take himself as seriously as Grossman so I'm not that mad about a shit book with a shit fanclub.

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What do you think og the Raven's Shadow trilogy? Is this good?

>>8356974
From what I heard the first book is great, but do not read past that.

>>8356964
Wut? Thats another author

>>8356988
Why do you make dumb posts before googling?

>>8356931
The problem with Grossman is that he shoves his shitty message down your throat all the time. I get that hes trying to show that magic doesnt solve all your problems. However, its unbearable how whiny and mopey every character is, even though theyre doing incredible things. I dropped it at the point where the MC gets all broody because his friend was getting gay with someone else, even though he wasn't gay himself.

For all Bakker's faults, at least he doesn't beat the reader over the head when hes trying to make a point.

>>8356974
Book 1 was good.

Each successive book gets progressively worse. Like he just started writing generic fantasy when he got a deal for books 2 and 3.

>>8356952
I read Feist obsessively in middle and early high school. Looking back I can't recommend much of it except the Empire trilogy he co-wrote with Janny Wurts. The Riftwar Saga (Magician, Silverthorn, A Darkness at Sethanon) is probably the best thing in that setting that he wrote solo, he just got worse as he went on. Though I did sort of like the first two books of the Serpent War Saga that focused on Erik and Roo, went full retard later.

The only other book of his I read was this stand alone low fantasy book called Faerie Tale which I only remember for the sexual stuff in it which wasn't at all present in his high fantasy setting.

>>8355454
No, it's because you are pretentious. Anyone who reads what you wrote will know you are an arrogant tosser.

>>8357098

I'm confused. Is the magician yay or nay?

hey sffg, my fantasy setting has gravity elementals that are supposed to be the embodiments of the stars. Which of these should I use?

sea-serpent-like dragons
>sepent-like for a roundabout gravity connection (serpent->apple->newton->gravity)
>the four other elementals already have fire, air and earth themes
>I already have a mythology written up

fireflies
>they actually look like stars
>I can write in a sub-plot about the stars being trapped in the street lights
>they wouldn't need to be underground like the dragons, which makes more sense for stars
>technically they could still be part of the backstory

Mistborn vs Stormlight? Which series do I start reading first?

>>8357325
Fireflies are the more unique choice

>>8357332
Stormlight is better, but mistborn is completed.

>>8357253
If I'm forced to give a yes or no I'd say no it's probably not worth your time. Unless you have a hankering for mediocre high fantasy that's extremely derivative of Tolkien. The world building is lazy, the magic is vague and poorly explained, lots of Fantasy cliches are present for no other reason than because it's expected. Probably the biggest offender to this are his dwarves. They are just there for decoration, because Tolkien had dwarves.

His writing isn't Paolini-tier bad, but it's very lackluster and I only remember it fondly because it was one of the earliest high fantasy series I read.

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>tfw your SFF book will never get a book cover drawn by Don Maitz

feels bad man

>>8355507
>Lin's fucked-up family, the Ambassador to Hell, & Yagharek's choice-theft
Scenes are not the same as characters with depth. Perdido has the former, but not the more important latter.

>>8355497
Read Tracking Song. I love that one.

>>8356847
t.retard

>>8357337
I thought Misborn was a giant spiraling series with at least 4 books left to be written

Bakker isnt perfect but I dont get the hate for him, he just does what he does.

>>8357532
Mistborn itself is a self contained story, but the world itself is expanded on in later books. There is a clear ending to it in book three, going beyond that is a choice up to you.

Stormlight is supposed to be 10-12 books long though, with only two written

>>8357545
>Stormlight is supposed to be 10-12 books long though, with only two written
The absolute madman!

>>8357573
Yep, if it stays on schedule it'll be done in like 2030 lel

>>8357335
True, but I wasn't sure which to use. I was trying to emphasize the "urban" in my "urban mythology" which is why I made it rats, cats/dogs, pigeons and sewer gators (dragons). People know the sewer gator myth, but most people don't know that new york is flooded with fireflies every summer.

It's a real bugger of a conflict between gravity symbolism and star symbolism. I wish I could find a way to join the two. I forgot that the sound elementals are already crickets, so I don't know if that's too many bugs

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>>8357325
>Serpents
>Apples come from trees
Something interesting, Níðhöggr is a dragon/snake that gnaws the roots of the world tree Yggdrasil.

>>8356997

The Magician books are, no joke, my favourite books of all time. I think you need to have pretty severe depression to enjoy them.

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Does Jordan deliver good magic systems in The Wheel of Time?

Also, for those of you who enjoyed it. Is it really worth it?

Don't want to derail this post so please tell me he isn't like Bakker. I really hate is way of writing

>>8357748
Its more along the lines of, its magic and I dont have to explain it

>>8357758
But is it worth it? I'm really into heavy world building. I loved the Stormlight Archive books and Sanderson keeps praising the Wheel of Time. Even before his contract to finish the series.

>>8356997
>I dropped it at the point where the MC gets all broody because his friend was getting gay with someone else, even though he wasn't gay himself.

Brooding Fantasy Protagonist, Eliot Roger edition.

>>8357777
It has a solid start and falls apart in the middle. There is a juvenile tone to it which often grates.

I accept that Sanderson may have saved the series but I can't bring myself to revisit it and find out.

>>8357777
I enjoyed it, although I understand why people don't. Id say try the first, maybe even second books and see if you like them or not.

>>8357826
>>8357822

Thanks guys. I guess I'll never know until I try it.
Just don't want to throw my money into the bin the way I did with The Darkness That Comes Before

>>8356422
The first book is pretty slow, however, book 2 is a lot better and books 3-5 are even better. He took a step back with book 6 and I haven't read his newest one though I have heard good things about it. Overall I would say it's one of the better fantasy series to come out since the 2000s.

Why do SFF authors continue to force this horrible, trite and unappealung construct known as "female characters" onto us?

does any one know any really good alien invasion books?

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>>8357545
It's only ever been planned to be ten books (plus however many novellas.)

>>8357337
>mistborn is completed
The first trilogy, yeah.

>>8357648
For the fireflies, I could replace the apple with sunflower seeds (hyuk-hyuk) or maybe forbidden booze (it IS turn-of-the-century New York) but I lose the apple symbolism

wait a minute, the booze could be hard cider, and that would explain why the one person who drinks it becomes blind to eveyrthing but a warped vision of the future and the past!

That said, I still lose the serpent connection

>>8358078
>>>/hm/

>>8358103
>Apples often have worms in them.
>worm = wyrm = dragon
The deepest lore

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Thoughts on this? Searching the archive there seems to be one guy who hates it and always comments, not a ton of other opinions outside of people just saying to read it.

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>>8357390
>tfw your SFF book will never get a book cover drawn by Frank Frazetta

>>8358144
I enjoyed it. Its a good example of grimdark done right imo. First book is the worst in the series, but even then its not bad.

>>8358144
Its good, not as bad as anyone says but its definite not a masterpiece.

It's just the beginning of a damn good series. Bakker naturally (and necessarily) has grown as a writer over the course of 6 books, but whats better is that he certainly has a plan in-mind and isnt bullshitting around.

Definitely give it a shot.

>>8358185
>ywn see Frazetta drawn women in porn doujins

JUST

>>8358188
>>8358190
Thanks, I ordered a used copy based on how much I love the cover art. I'm just hoping I can get used to these crazy people and place names.

>>8358289
>yfw you get the hardcover cover art

One of the most unfortunate cover arts since WoT

>>8358289
>I'm just hoping I can get used to these crazy people and place names.
its not really that big of a deal, people just like to complain

>>8357777
WoT has some great world building but the origins of magic are not really delved into.

Why does /r/fantasy keep shilling female authors?

>>8358315
Why do retards think Bakker is a good author?

>>8358315
muh diversity

>>8358315
Because they aren't bitter losers who hate women

>>8358315
I wish only that females writers be recognised by their quality of writing, and not that they are females who write. I've read plenty of books from female authors that are good, and the fact that people need separate their work by gender is almost a discredit to them.

If I read a good author, I don't say 'he's a good male writer, I simply say he was a good writer.'

>>8358414
>If I read a good author, I don't say 'he's a good male writer, I simply say he was a good writer.'
I feel like you're kind of missing the point. The point is that there tends to be less women writers, and the prefacing of their gender is akin to pointing out a oddly colored beetle, rather than an actual selling point.

>>8358475
Of course

If you cant handle bakkers names,you lack the imagination to post on this board.

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>>8358294
That cover is so fucking bad, I can't believe they let it through. Actually both of the ones that aren't the one posted are shit.

There are many people that love and hate Bakker...You only need the first paragraph to judge if you will like this book or not.

"One cannot raise walls against what has been forgotten."

This encapsulates what people hate and love about him. With the first sentence you realize this novel is for those who think. The majority of lit,reddit and people in general will have a hard time liking this novel because they are not used to looking deeper, they read Sanderson,Jordan,Abercombie and so on...with those guys what you see is what you get. How many of you tried The darkness that comes before and completely jumped over this line? Have any " bakker haters" stopped to think for a moment what this means?

This single line, and many more, is the essence of Bakkers fans and haters. The hard core fans like to think about bakker's world, look deeper and marvel just how amazing the world and story is, they will shitpost endlessly, trying to spread the word. Bakker hatters are the same, they don't like books like this ( or for whatever reason they where biased, and couldn't keep an open mind). They use the same tired excuses like many in this thread " omg weird words " " lel philosophy" and so on...truth is, they are either too stupid or to biased to appreciate Bakker.

In the end, Bakker has created something that is objectively good(or at least interesting and original). Even if you don't like him an honest person will admit that. It's like appreciating something that isn't " your thing ". I can look at some skateboarder or freerunner and admire what they are doing, even if that isn't my thing and I don't really understand it. Bakker haters don't get that, many are just pissed of because they " didn't get it" so they repeat the same shit over and over...

>>8358523
I was referring to the faceplate ones. Those have by far the worst coverart.

>>8358592
>one line out of context which isn't even anything special makes him good and somehow helps with the fact he is a retard who just namedrops to sound smart

What are the odds bakker fags read anything beyond fantasy?

>>8358705
I'm getting into him now. Of the ~200 books I own only about 6 are fantasy.

>>8358705
I gurantee most people who hate him dont

Is GRRM considered good or bad here?

>>8358746

/sffg/ isn't one person, my personal opinion is that he's competent enough if somewhat overrated because of how popular the show became, also his real talent is sci fi, read Sandkings.

>>8358718
According to goodreads, all who dislike him read a lot of classics.

>>8358781
>/sffg/ isn't one person

Could've fooled me considering these threads only every mention the same 5 authors.

>>8358810

Good books are hard to come by and good sff even more so since everyone seems to have a lower standard for it like this mouthbreather here >>8356550

>>8358803
>goodreads

>>8358810
It is pretty irritating how the only real discussion that happens is about Bakker or Wolfe. Honestly I feel like most people here don't actually read much /sffg/ other than the /lit/ approved stuff out of fear of enjoying themselves unironically or something.

>>8358825

People also discuss WoT from time to time. Myself, I'm at book 11 and hoping the transition to Sanderson will be smooth, I don't want a noticeable difference in style tugging at me. Good, stout prose should be elegant, like embroidery.

>>8358825
Reading /lit/ stuff is fun.
Reading dumb stuff on the other hand is not fun at all.

>>8358836
Sanderson bungles half the plotlines, completely ABORTS the entire character of Berelaine and generally fucks up.

Bump for >>8356974

>>8358862

To be fair half the plotlines were useless filler drivel (the Perrin / Shaido / Prophet subplot being the worst offender ) and Berelain has done literally nothing in six books except cocktease Perrin.

>>8358875
He completely failed to even realize that Graendal was collaborating with the Forsaken who was hiding in Shiota (I can't remember his name right now, D something), despite it being blatantly explained when she's showing off her Shiotan slaves to Sammael.

>>8356422
Great action, shit to meh everything else with the exception of a couple characters which are fun.

Anyone got that recommended Arthurian books graphic?

>>8356974
Why are sci-fi and especially fantasy book covers such utter shit nowadays? They used to have space ships shooting lasers at each other, a guy firing a blaster at a killer robot or hideous alien with a hot alien girl next to him, a guy slaying a monster with a scantily clad princess at his feet. Granted these covers were often blatant lies, but at least they looked good and fun. Now it's complete garbage with either a character or an item augmented by a shitty filter. What gives? Are they trying to trick people into thinking this shit is classy?

>>8358926

Torgersen pls go

>>8358926
They're the video game audience, look at video game box covers and it's the same shit.

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"Patrick Rothfuss is not your bitch" blogpost when?

>>8359014
Rothfuss talks like the kind of sperg who takes the DnD roleplay too serious, and won't let you get up for a beer mid-battle

>>8359014

I can't fathom how someone who likes BOTNS enough to make it his #1 favorite book can even stand Rothfuss, let alone talk to him.

>>8359014

>Shitty neckbeard writer is a liberal who hates Trump

Colour me surprised

>>8359027
Newsflash: Some people aren't pretentious fucks and like all kinds of things.

>>8359027
All fantasy authors have to stick by each other or else getting a book in a timely fashion might actually become the expectation

>>8359032

>if you don't like shit it means you're pretentious

Every time

>>8359027
Le Guin also likes Rothfuss

>>8359038

She's gone senile then.

>>8359028
all SFF writers are liberal (by all I mean at least over 90%) and I bet they all hate Trump

>>8359049

To be fair a lot of conservatives also hate Trump. The man isn't exactly likable.

>>8359049
Wolfe, Tolkien, Wright, Heinlein, Lewis out of the more famous names, I'm probably missing a few.

>>8359045
30 years ago, when her artistic output died.

Just finished Dying Earth, first 6 stories. It was really great. Elegant prose, characters with personally, damsels and quests, atmosphere and nice pacing. Some of the best fantasy out there.

>>8359069
good, now read cugel the based

>>8359056
>The man isn't exactly likable.
Understatement of the decade.

>>8359117

The understatement of the decade would go to "Hillary barely broke any laws"

>>8358925
Tead The Wizard Knight

>>8359138
Honestly, she could have killed a man and she'd still be a better candidate than Trump, he's a narcissistic manchild and he'd ruin the country worse by accident than Hillary could if she was trying to.

>>8359181

Is this bait?
>Hillary who has already bombed the middle east and wants to bomb them more
>Vs Trump who wants good relations with Russia so there wouldn't be a third world war or another cold war

w e w

please take this shit to another board, we're here to discuss spaceships and magic swords thank you very much.

>>8359253
>vs Trump who wants to default on the national debt, reduce federal tax revenues by 10 trillion over the next decade and trigger another global depression
ftfy
Also he reportedly wants to nuke the middle east, so you don't exactly have the moral high ground there

>>8359292

Keyword being "reportedly"

>>8359253
>>8359292
What's wrong with bombing the middle east? Sounds like a good plan. I doubt any politician has the balls to do it though.

Any scifi or fantasy where the world is controlled by a group of global elites and one man rises up to take charge and lead his people into peace and prosperity, a golden age?

Dune?

>>8359380

>the world is controlled by a group of global elites and one man rises up to take charge and lead his people into peace and prosperity, a golden age?

I have one

It's called "the IRL USA."

>>8359392
A lot of loyalty for a hired Fremen.

>>8359380
The Iron Dream

I'm looking for some Scifi/Fantasy books which have big cast of different Aliens/Races.
Anyone have some recommendations?
Doesn't have to be the best written thing ever.

>>8359459
Blindsight
Golden Age kind of because it had lots of humans who change themselves to the point they are alien.

>>8359468
Seems interesting but I was looking for something more alien rich.

>>8359459
Try Ringworld.

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>>8359459
I think you want the Sector General series. Space hospital staffed by many alien races. Most stories involve encountering a sick member of an unknown alien race and attempting to classify its physiology enough to treat it.
(cover chosen for relevant tagline)

>>8358144
It's bad. You should waste your time with other authors.

>>8358511
Super defensive are we?

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>to the anon that says we don't read, and just discuss the same 5 books

Let's pick a book from my chart and discuss it, that is not the tried 5.

>>8359647
But those are just the same mega popular books, and not even good ones.

>>8359647
>tfw Ellison, that edgy asshole, literally has a collection called 'Voice From The Edge'
>trolled by Ellison, again

>>8359652
I finished Dying Earth 1 today, contemplating Worm Oruboros or things unrelated to sffg for my fiction read, End of the Affair was shilled a lot, the anon deserves someone to try it out.

>>8359652
Post the good ones sherlock

>>8359663
God, I fucking hate Ellison.

>>8359647

for anyone new, this is a troll chart of books to avoid made by a shitposting anon.

I'm looking for a good place to download the Supervillainy Saga, but the only links I can find are audiobooks or covered in malware bullshit. Anyone know where an epub or pdf could be for the first few books?

>>8359045
or maybe you're part of the autistic minority on /lit/ who only buys meme books to pad his bookshelf yet never read them

>>8359799

I don't even have a bookshelf, I have a Kobo.

And no, not liking Rothfuss does not make one pretentious or autistic. The man is a hack and the stereotypical fedora neckbeard who got cucked and bullied in high school and vented it all in one mediocre series by creating a character who does everything he couldn't.

>>8359799
Which meme books do you mean?

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>>8358088
Nightwings by Robert Silverberg, a novella. The invaders turn out to be reasonable.

>>8359748
I've never heard of this series before but I presume this is what you're after

http://forum.mobilism.org/viewtopic.php?f=1293&t=1179822
http://forum.mobilism.org/viewtopic.php?f=1293&t=1369795
http://forum.mobilism.org/viewtopic.php?f=1293&t=1648726

>>8359647

Oh my so many books I haven't read, thanks anon I'll get right on them

>>8359847
That's exactly what I'm looking for... But it's also exactly what I was talking about when I said 'malware bullshit'.

Thanks for the help anyway, friend.

>>8358088
Footfall and The Mote in God's Eye

>>8359858
I download stuff from mobilism links all the time, never had a problem with malware.

>>8359858

>Being so shit at computers

Please...

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>>8358925
I updated it slightly since the original inexplicably didn't have Gawain and the Green Knight

>>8359454
Is this Spinrad's best book? The Solarians was neat in a retro sort of way

What is BOTNS?
Is it a book series?

>>8359983

Book Of The New Sun.

Not so much a "book series", more like a single book divided in 4 parts by the publisher for marketing reasons. It also happens to be very very good and highly rated by critics, other SFF authors and pretty much anyone who reads it.

>>8359983
Shit for pretentious fedora wearers.

>>8359991
>>8360004
Take your pick

I like Brandon Sanderson's cosmere books a lot. I'm currently reading through his other stuff and not liking it very much. Alcatraz was painful, but it was for children so that's not a big deal. Legion was actually really good.

I'm halfway through the Rithmatist and it's such a drag. I don't even particularly dislike it, there's just so little push to read more.

Some of his short stories are okay (Firstborn was kind of neat).

Next up I have Dreamer, Perfect State, and the Reckoners series (Steelheart, etc.). Are they good?

Any SFF featuring a sassy black girl protagonist?

>>8360004

Isn't that Bakker tho

>>8360010
No. The only good thing he has besides Stormlight Archive is Emperors Soul.

Why are Keely's reviews so shit? How can he be so wrong about literally everything?

I have never seen a man with his head so far up his own ass, and I've watched David Lynch's interviews.

>>8359622
>>8359560
>Sector General series
That looks exactly like what I was looking for. Thanks a lot.

>>8360023

I loved The Emperor's Soul. Not a huge Stormlight fan. I liked Way of Kings, thought Words of Radiance was meh, and think Mistborn and Warbreaker are way better.

>>8360024
He's the proto-dinosaur from which all dinos derive. The Ur Reptile if it were

The rest of the pack split from him after he trashed BOTNS

>>8358888

Shara
Demandred

Also it would be Harriet's job to tell him that really, Sanderson wasn't allowed much leeway with storyline stuff apart from Perrin and the Black Tower. He was regularly vetoed on his interpretation of where RJ was going, when there was no notes there.

>>8360043

Wait, Demandred is in Shara? Fuck me

I'm halfway through book 11 and I just kind of assumed Demandred = Mazrim Taim.

It just seemed so obvious.

>>8360052

Sorry if that spoiled you anon, perhaps me and that other anon should have used spoiler tags.

As for your theory, well, read this if you wish: originally, as in when books 6, 7, etc., were published, Taim was Demandred. Then RJ got irritated over fans working it out, and retconned it away. This is confirmed. Demandred then turned out to be having a different subplot that you'll find out about in the last book. There's actually a short story called "River of Souls" about what he's been up to during the series. Wait until after you've finished the last book to read it though...or read it when he shows up in the last book.

>>8360015
He is. Wolfe is an anti fedora as far as his views go.

>>8360085
>severain
>not fedora

>>8360139
Severian=Wolfe?

>>8360145
Yes

He's wolfes protagonist so it reflects on wolfe

The years are so complicated though, the 1167th year of burnt sleep? Do I think that makes any sense?

>>8360146
Wolfe has such a large range of protagonists it's a retarded statement.
But on Severian, I don't even know what's fedora supposed to mean. He's mostly talking about aristotelian philosophy in his own understanding.

>>8360024
He's the quintessential pseudo-intellectual leftist literature graduate, though he does make some good points if you sift through the rambling. I remember reading his review of A Game of Thrones and liking it until he began accusing it of racism and fascism.

>>8360024
I don't know who that is. Unless his reviews have been posted here, in which case I might have read them. I've certainly read enough reviews here that fit your description.

Okay I'm gonna bite on the Sanderson hype. What're the essential Sanderson books?

>>8360214
Mistborn
Stormlight

>>8360214
NOT Mistborn, it's fucking terrible. Just read Stormlight, or if you want something short before Emperors Soul.

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>>8360214
>>8360223
As much as I enjoyed Mistborn I wouldn't recommend it. It's a fine story but lacks a lot of world building.

The Stormlight Archive is the best Epic Fantasy Series I've ever read. I found myself having skin shivers during the epilogues. It's THAT good.

>>8360052
Yeah it's kind of an asspull due to Jordan changing things at the last minute. He wasn't nearly as subtle about Taim as he thought he was.

>>8358888
>Graendal was collaborating with the Forsaken who was hiding in Shiota (I can't remember his name right now, D something), despite it being blatantly explained when she's showing off her Shiotan slaves to Sammael.
That was misdirection by Graendal, she even says as much in narration right after Sammael leaves. She obtained those Sharans solely to fool Sammael into thinking she was involved in Shara, so she could continue to sink her claws into Arad Doman without his interference.

What's a good sffg that revolves around a villain protagonist? Someone who's really kind of a dick and doesn't really do anything 'good'?

I mean, I'm completely fine with pulp, if that's what you guys have.

>>8360223
>>8360226
>>8360227
Stormlight it is. If I like it I might have a go at Mistborn. I've read quite a bit of cliche fantasy, as long as it's not super boring I might like it still.

>>8360246
Mistborn is not bad, it's just too Herocentric. It doesn't develop the world enough for my tastes.

>>8360240
Broken Empire trilogy. He gets less edgy as he gets older through the story, but even at the very end he's still something of a murderous asshole.

>>8358144
It's really good. TDTCB is the worst book in the series by far, and it's kind of slow, but just bear with it. It's laying out the pieces and getting you introduced to the world, don't feel lost when you don't know who Ajencis is or what the fuck happened in Kuniuri or who the fuck Nau-Cayuti is, all will be revealed and just roll with it. The Warrior-Prophet grabs you by your balls and doesn't let go.

Also try to bear the Nansur GRI cringe, literally the only character of the Ikurei with any abiding importance is Conphas (based desu) and they get the fuck away from there in the second book and never really go back except for the occasional chapter.

The first book is a real slog but it's still enjoyable, much more so than Gardens of the Moon. The rest of the Prince of Nothing and Aspect-Emperor is fucking amazing though, if you let it take a hold of you you won't be able to put it down. I marathoned The Warrior-Prophet, The Thousandfold Thought, and The Judging Eye in like a week and a half.

Anybody here read Tad Williams' stuff? I find myself liking his books despite all the time-wasting exposition stuffed into them.

>>8360282
Dragonbone chair was okay, even if the princess was an insufferable bitch who never had any real consequences for her mistakes and a rushed ending with the big bad ghost witch defeated offscreen.

>>8360303
Dragonbone Chair took a lot of effort to get through but I found the rest of that series very enjoyable. Haven't read it in years though. More recently I read through Shadowmarch, which I felt was a lot more streamlined and had better world building than Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.

>>8360148
No, you are utterly baffled.
Thank goodness you only care about the dates insofar as they give you a rough idea of the timeskip between certain chapters.

>>8357822
I would agree with your assessment but I started the series after Sanderson started writing for it. Things do pick up. His Mat sections are particularly enjoyable.

>>8360420

To be fair Mat chapters were always the best parts of any WoT book, even those by Jordan.

Except the Darkfriend/Forsaken chapters, those were my favorite because of the welcome change of perspective.

>>8360604
I would have enjoyed Graendal's perspective more if Jordan weren't trying to keep it PG-13.

>>8360613

He implied more than enough, I imagined every sort of depravity and degeneracy going on in her decadent palace.

>>8360622
>He implied more than enough
He was so vague that it was entirely up to the reader to supply the imagery. It was actually written in such a way that if you were some pure, innocent kid reading it you'd probably not have any idea what was being implied.

>>8360628

Yeah but it worked, I think he kind of pulled a Lovecraft there, in that he supplied the basis and let you build on your own imagination.

Or maybe he was just being a prude, I don't know. Was Jordan conservative or religious? I don't know anything about the man himself except that he fought in Vietnam and looked like Dr. Jacobi from Twin Peaks.

>>8360604
Padan Fain is the weakest part of the series to me. They could have cut out all of that and been stronger for it.

>>8360641
I thought it was pretty obvious he was religious from the way he structured the mythos of his story. Absolute good vs evil, nameless Creator from whom all life and goodness flows and whose existence is unquestioningly believed by everybody. His description of the Creator and the Pattern is 100% a deist view of God.

>>8360651
So he was not religious? Because deism is not a religious position.

>>8360655
Don't be a pedant. Given there was no real church and the closest thing to a religious organization in the series was almost universally despised and portrayed as bullies, it's safe to say he wasn't a fan of organized religion or at least had no interest in including it in his work.

>>8360649
Yeah I could never really see Fain as anything but a Gollum analog, so it felt jarring that Jordan was hyping him up as a major villain. He just didn't have the gravitas of Ishamael or any of the other Forsaken and the conclusion Sanderson wrote in was just anticlimactic.

>>8360661
Hence, he wasn't religious.

>>8360671
Fine if you insist on being pedantic he was "spiritual" or whatever.

>>8359742
>i'll post it again

Is there anything that is VERY similar to The Magicians by Lev Grossman? I mean the magic part and things. Apart from HP

>>8360715

A Wizard Of Earthsea.

>>8360715

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell maybe, but it isn't as shittastic as The Magicians so you may find yourself disappointed if you were looking for something "VERY similar". Just search for tag combinations like "urban fantasy" and "magic".

>>8360727
>>8360746

thanks ill check em out

>fiction

>>8360820
>tripcode

>>8360227
All fantasy reads the same, but I literally had goosebumps when I read the part where Kaladin learns how to fly. It's interesting how mr. Sanderson writes in such a compelling fashion. I can honestly say that I like this stuff.

>>8360746

Why suggest a female author?

>>8360146
>being this fucking stupid

>>8360955

The day you and dino anon kill each other in a blaze of shitposting will be the day we make /sffg/ great again.

>>8360955
To bring you closer to suicide obviously, we all eagerly await the day.

>start reading First Law
>can't get into it
>can't remember who all these stupid characters are
>keep getting put off by ridiculous dialogue, onomatopoeias, and edgy gore shit

Save me some time, is this trash or is it worth reading?

>>8360983
Book 1 is pretty much set up.

>>8360983

It's trash, but then again if you can't even follow trash it says more about you than it does about the book.

>>8360989

I admit to skim reading, but it's so boring I can't help it. I never skim read stuff I actually like.

>>8360986

>an entire book of set up

Why?

>>8360999
>Why?
Bad writing.

>>8360983
You yourself see that it's edgy trash.
>>8361046
Actually good answer, I keked.

>>8357105
His characterization is atrocious.

The best characters he's ever written were in the last books of Wheel of Time. Because the characters were already made and already went through the majority of their development over the series.

His world building is excellent, one of the best of the medium. But a world with no one in it is quite boring.

>>8360983
Its not that great

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>Three Body Problem is literally the best sci fi to come along in years and you're pooh-poohing it away.

>First of all, no one likes it because of some wishy washy desire to see more translated fiction. How facile and pandering. I have literally never read a worse thought.

>Second, and this is tied to the first point, it's laughable that the only part of any relevance is the Cultural Revolution section. Again this pandering oriental fascination. Read a history book if it's so eye-opening. That said, the historical context of China is well utilised for the plot, and it all comes together so magnificently.

>It's truly reminiscent of golden age sci fi, with big ideas and lots of science. It's exciting and fresh, and yeah The Dark Forest does just take it to the next level. This isn't a book about fucking characters - it's a book about scientists and existentialism (by the way The Dark Forest is a beautiful love story) and it works perfectly for that. There are issues with translation and this is mostly in dialogue, but honestly there was some killer writing in there. But oh no sorry Station Eleven is just so beautiful it made me cry. Give me a break. This is far and above a lot else out there.

>I went to a seminar in Sydney with Cixin Liu was speaking. I have never seen such a packed event. A university lecture theatre filled with Chinese students (and me and like 5 white dudes). During question time there was a literal stampede of people wanting to ask him questions. And no, not questions like 'how do you find time to write?' or some lame bullshit Western audiences would ask, but deep and meaningful questions about science and the future of China.

>That day I saw the West die.

>>8361601
>Chinkaboos
>2016

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>>8361601
Ha ha ha, where do you find this shit?

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>just got my signed set of Fancher/Cherryh's Gate of Ivrel graphic novels
Feels good lads

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>>8360214
Of course I fuck up badly and post the wrong image.

>>8360214
Read Elantris or Warbreaker. They're both standalone fantasy books (let that sink in) so you can sample a complete story without a gigantic investment.

You know whats good? The Chronicles of the Black Company.

>>8360983

Yes

>>8361949
If you're an idiot.

>>8362001
name something you like

>>8360010
Sounds like you dislike his YA stuff (fair enough too). You should probably steer clear of the Reckoners series.

>>8362048

I think he ran away

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Is there any good old fashioned sword and sorcery being written anymore, or is it long-dead? Why's everything need to be bogged down in politics, massive casts, and other typical "epic" fantasy norms?

>>8362372
Dead> Abandon your hopes.

Is the Dune series any good for some one who never ventured on science fiction?

>>8362405
Its a good starting point.

>>8361922
So all his novels are part of a single universe?

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A bit more pop culture, but a local news station along with a local comic con visited the MIT science fiction library. They claim to be one of the biggest collections of sf and fantasy

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/07/27/boston-comic-con-secret-worlds-video-boldly-keep-going/

>>8362469
No only certain works are part of the Cosmere universe. Mistborn, Elantris, Stormlight, and I think Warbreaker. But you wont notice unless youre looking for the minor details that join them.

>>8362498
K then I'll just start with Stormlight then maybe read some of his standalones.

>>8362001
he cant keep getting away with this

>>8362388
That's unfortunate. Seems like so much stuff is trying to emulate the success of GRRM that it's hard to find good new stuff

>>8362372
It stopped being a thing in the 90s as far as I know, it was a thing mostly because of the publishing format.
Also, the audience is now primarily video game nerds and tumblir crowd, so you'll see crap targeting them.

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>>8362469
Everything that does not take place on Earth, yes.

>>8362786
Is White Sand worth reading?

>>8362372

The Witcher books might be what you're looking for.

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Can anyone recommend fantasy that has as part of its subject matter the creation of worlds and their reality/unreality? Like meta-fantasy? Pic related.

>>8362854
>subject matter the creation of worlds

The Magicians by Lev Grossman

>>8362894
Is the series good? I watched the tv show, but I wasn't hugely into it.
Alice had dat ass tho

>>8362909

Give it a try

>>8362909
No it's terrible.

>>8362909
Thanks, thematically this is exactly what I'm looking for. Here's hoping it's good.

>>8362909
I enjoyed it. You have to be prepared for some angst though.

>>8362934

It's good as long as you ignore all the bad things about it, I think

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>>8362822
Not right now.

>>8355439
Does anyone here have some less famous Gene Wolfe stuff he could post to Mega? Like Castle of Days, Castle of the Otter, Endangered Species, Innocents Abroad and such?

>>8363194

You can easily find a complete bibliography on torrent sites. What are you, a cacogen?

>>8363204
It isn't there.
If it is, link it and prove me wrong.

>>8363208
>Do it for me or you can't do it!
Less cacogen and more 5 years old.

>>8361754
Did you tell her that your disco stick if willing and open to her if she wanted?

Because I feel you want to fuck cherryh's pussy something fierce.

are their any fantasy based off of middle eastern,Asian, or African settings and mythos?

>>8363493
>>8363493
>>8363493
>>8363493
NEW THREAD

Next General will be Everyone too Lazy Edition.. You lazy fucks

>>8363488
next thread